A Hot Dog Is a Sandwich - Does the Internet Have a Food Waste Problem? ft. Jarvis Johnson

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

Today, Josh and Nicole are joined by YouTuber, Jarvis Johnson to discuss food waste generated by online content creators and their excessive over-the-top cooking content. Leave us a voicemail at (833) DOG-POD1 Check out the video version of this podcast: http://youtube.com/@mythicalkitchen To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Nicole, these cooking TikToks are getting out of hand. They must be stopped at all costs. Don't you guys have a cooking TikTok? Yeah, but we're cool. This is a hot dog is a sandwich. Ketchup is a smoothie. Yeah, I put ice in my cereal, so what?

That makes no sense. A hot dog is a sandwich. A hot dog is a sandwich. What? Welcome to our podcast, A Hot Dog is a Sandwich. I'm your host, Josh Ayer. And I'm your host, Nicole Inayati. And today we have a very special guest joining us.

Please welcome YouTuber and friend of Mythical, Harvest Johnson. We talked about this. I have a Colombian cousin. Jarvis, no, thank you so much for coming on the show. Yes. We specifically wanted to talk to you about the idea okay so we were initially going to call this does TikTok have a food waste problem right because you made an incredible video called wasting food for clout yeah that outline a great

fantastic video I hate that you got scooped by Ryan Sutton from eater oh that did happen but you know what it continued This led me on a dark path of every time someone was doing something suspicious with food, I would get tagged on Twitter or Instagram. And I've also been like DMCA'd by some of the people who do these, you know, food things. Rightly, actually. I think I did just like take a clip on Twitter and go, this is weird. And I'm like, you know what? Fair game. But yeah, so while it hasn't been my beat as of late, it is a place I spent a lot of my time. So I'm excited to speak about it today.

When I see a conventionally attractive white woman in a very well-lit kitchen pouring spaghetti and processed cheese on a marble countertop, I think of you. And that's what I want. Has anybody ever tagged you in any of our content? No. So maybe that's a sign that you need to get a little more unhinged. I think we might need to, but no. I don't think it's humanly possible for us to get more unhinged. Because we get a lot of comments from people. We try and not waste food.

So for people that don't know, what we're talking about are these genres of TikTok, actually a lot of them explode on Facebook, but short form food videos where people will deliberately make food that is so, so, so terrible and unhinged and is generally very large quantities that are obviously getting scooped right into a trash can.

They get millions upon millions of views. A lot of times they're doing it on a counter and there's no dishware to speak of. Nope. There's always someone off camera who's very surprised at what's going on. Yeah. As if they're not holding the camera in on the entire thing.

There's a very specific style. Like it has created its own rules within the genre. Yeah, it does. You know, it's like when you hear music nerds talk about like dubstep and somebody's like, that's not dubstep. Dubstep has 32 half beats on a countermeasure. Right.

You're like, they really subverted the sitcom like formula with this one. Yeah. But think about communities. It's a meta commentary on this format. You know what I mean? Like that's like what it has become. It's its own medium. Yeah.

They're all like semi, semi, semi believable, right? There's that uncanny valley area where you're like, God, is somebody actually doing this? And especially from a food person's perspective. So there's a video where the lady pours a bunch of jars of Prego sauce, which Prego ended up trending on Twitter because of it. Yes. No way.

They're a fine jarred sauce. And every time I try a new jarred sauce, I'm disappointed. Might as well buy Prego. Prego. Might as well. Might as well buy Prego. Prego. Might as well. Might as well. Jarred sauce kind of sounds like an alternate universe version of my name.

Jarvis Jarred Sauce. Okay, so speaking of pouring food directly on countertops, you know what I'm about to bring up. You know what I'm about to bring up. I do. Because there's a very legit dish Oh, the polenta. It's called polenta a la spianatora. Yes, yes. I love that. And spianatora, hear me out.

Spianatora is like a large wooden board and it used to just be served on people's wooden tables. You make sure it's cleaned and sanitized and then you take just a ton of polenta and you pour it out while it's liquidy and you spread it across the table so it then kind of hardens and then you take just like bolognese

cooked with like pork neck and a little bit of that soft chicha, that sausage and you just throw it directly on there and everybody sits around and eats with their hands

or a Filipino kamaian feast. Sure, that's another example. They'll line the table with banana leaves being directly on the table. So as a food person, I'm watching these videos

and I'm like, oh, this might be slightly serious. Right, you're like, I'll hear you out because I can contort myself into reasoning that this makes sense. This could be legitimate. 100%.

Yeah, but do you think they're inviting their friends over after they shoot that video to partake in the food debauchery? They don't have friends. I do characters. They're not real people. The people that are in those videos, they exit the world of that video and they have whole entire lives where they're not thinking about spaghetti on the counter. They're thinking about what preschool their child is going to go to. You know what I mean?

It's a weird universe that they... This is their job. Sure. Against all odds, this has become their job, which is the way that I look at this. I think it's a beautiful thing about the internet is that we have, you know, we used to live in this like homogeneic media landscape where you listen to the radio and there were like five artists. Elvis Presley was everywhere and you had to be a fan of him because what else were you going to listen to, right? fan of him because what else were you going to listen to, right?

And then we've had this media stratification where you can niche down into your most specific interests. And from that, these people have risen up and found, much like the Ice Cream So Good TikTok NPC thing. Pinky Doll, we love her. Pinky Doll. It's amazing, but I think it's a beautiful outcropping of the stratification of media. Everyone can find a weird thing and some stuff bubbles up and some of the stuff that bubbles up is weird to me i i don't even know

if i'd say that some of the stuff that bubbles up is weird the stuff bubbles up because it's weird and that's by design right like you talked about these videos having a very specific format and that's all to game some sort of engagement and outrage. And the fact that all these algorithms on all these social media platforms, all these publishers, they simply function on what is new, what is immediate, and what is outrageous. And what's going to garner interactions,

positive or negative. 100%. And there's a negativity bias in humans in general. So if somebody calls up your house, political pollsters, so many of the political polling numbers now are weird because the method of data collection has changed. Who's going to answer the phone at 4 PM.

Somebody who freaking hates Gavin Newsom so goddamn much that they need to tell a stranger about it. Or someone who doesn't have anything like that. They feel like do like, I think that my, I think that there's an older generation that I'm not a part of who when they get a phone call, they're like, let's chat. That's not something that I personally,

and maybe it's not generational. Maybe it's just cultural too or just specifically how you grew up. But if someone calls me, it feels like an emergency. Do you have a landline? Not anymore. Yeah, me either. I don't have a landline either. Yeah, it's been a while. Do you have a landline? Not anymore. Yeah, me either. I don't have a landline either.

Yeah, it's been a while. But when I was in middle school, I had a friend whose dad didn't have a landline, and I was like, that's crazy. Yeah, I know. What do you mean you don't have a landline? Yeah. How do you talk to your friends? How do you get on the internet?

I love answering scam calls and then just having nice conversations with them. I do too. Yeah, but that's more for the bit. One thing I want to get into is, and I know it's foolish to try and put anything into a good-bad binary, especially when it comes

to the wild world of the internet. Okay. But one could call these videos bad for society, right? They're deliberately, one,

I agree. If you make a video like this, it simply begets more videos like that, right? Especially if they're successful. Yeah, 100%. Because anything that's successful will inevitably have a bunch of copycats

because we all want to figure out how to crack the algorithm, how to break through. And then when someone does it, people are going to be like, what about that succeeded? I'm going to try to mimic it. 100%.

And then everything, all these algorithms are shaded towards negativity. They're also shaded towards extremism. You watch one video about, oh, is there a slight issue with the vaccine? And then five videos later, it's like, well, Obama was a shapeshifter and a lizard person, so

that means that the aliens are going to rebuild the pyramids. Or even the MrBeastification of things, where things need to be bigger and bigger and bigger to the point of... I think MrBeast's videos are an incredible, how did this get made? It breaks my brain what it is, but they start and it's like, we've got the biggest explosion.

Also, we drove a car into a hole. Tony Hawk's here. You know what I mean? It's like the components of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even Mr. Beast has said that he can't give away

more money in his videos because it's crossed over to the point where people don't believe it's real people are like oh if I give $10,000

that's fine if I give $50,000 but if I give a million dollars people are like fake but it's like I really did it oh there's literally somebody that's being

shorted money from Mr. Beast because nobody will believe it's real the logical end goal for so many of these videos where it's somebody just pouring crap on countertops you know you're going to get wasted to me i don't know this man's name however he goes on there and goes this is how i make peanut butter and jelly and this man will have 10 gallons of jelly there'll be a single piece of white bread oh yeah 10 gallons of jelly and then he pours it and and then he says, perfect!

Does anybody know what I'm talking about? I know who that is. It is the pure, logical end result of all of these videos where they're like, what if we skipped all of the things that we thought made this format successful, and we simply wasted 10 gallons of food? Yeah, that reminds me of

the Grimace Shake phenomenon. Where we kind of witnessed in real time, it started, someone made a little joke and then they were like, I need to, you know, yes and, I need to escalate this. And then it escalated to the point of people completely missing the point

and going into a McDonald's and slapping the shake out of someone's hand and making a huge mess. It's like, what have we become? Horrible times. What are we doing? It's like in any friend group. It's like you start pranking each other and then one person's prank is like, oh, I'm just

going to hit this person in the back of the two by four. Isn't that funny? And we're like, Alex. It's not funny, Alex. That's true. You always play too rough. Right. It was Alex in our friend group.

I will say this, Josh. It sounds like an Ed, Edd, and Eddie episode. I will say, whenever I see those like 10 gallon peanutallon peanut butter pouring on a single slice of bread, there's also creators that actually, they take that 10 gallons of peanut butter and they show you useful ways to do it. So I've seen those videos as well. It's a weird carbon write-off that isn't real. It's not real.

No, no, no. I swear. You actually see the peanut butter levels go lower and he's like, okay, this is the last scoop of peanut butter. I guess I'm just going to put in a shake. So for all of that craziness and clicks and views's like, okay, this is the last scoop of peanut butter. I guess I'm just going to put in a shake. So for all of that craziness and clicks and views and whatever, there's also some people out there that actually want to show people how to use food if they ever are.

How to shop at Costco effectively. If people are buying things at Costco and buying things at home, there's actually some, it's a small percentage, but there's people out there. They exist somewhere. Dubious. I'm dubious to that claim. I don't disagree at all.

But I do think the market for practicality is probably smaller than the market for spectacle. Yeah, you're literally talking to people that make $500 Big Macs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we eat that whole Big Mac. Oh, you got to pry us away from those $500 Big Macs. We also do waste a lot of food.

It is simply, this is, I'm going to have generally unpopular and self-immolating beliefs about this. After you. Nobody is going to like me for my general stance on this, right? This is the only way you and I know how to make money. Good for you for figuring out how to make money without wasting food, Jarvis. Okay, who's to say I don't waste food in my private life? Well, that's actually something I was

going to get to, right? So we waste a certain amount of food here. We do take a lot of efforts to not waste it. Every Friday we put out, this is just our confessional episode to you, by the way, but every Friday we put out all of the groceries from our fridge and we just put them on the table. All of our coworkers come with literal tote bags and shop

for themselves. That's right. I get first dibs, though. Me too. Yeah, anyways, but we do that and we make put them on the table. All of our coworkers come with literal tote bags and shop for themselves. That's right. I get first dibs though. Me too. Yeah, anyways, but we do that and we make monthly donations to the Hollywood Food Bank. That's right. We physically drive food wherever we can. There is necessarily going to be a lot of food wasted on any sort of food shows.

And any restaurant. And any restaurant. And any grocery store. In your home, 30 to 40% of all food produced in America Ends up in a landfill For the first time In human history We have figured out how to produce too much food

For the human population And there are people, several people in America That are hungry and food insecure And the reason they are not getting food Is not because food shows Are putting it in the trash that's right it is because of supply chain issues and there is no profitability in helping the poor like that is simply it we have hundreds of millions of tons of cheese sitting in

caves oh yeah cheese caves have you heard about the cheese caves only briefly have i heard about the cheese i would love to learn more if that's If anyone's got a one-liner on that. Caves in Missouri, I mean, so much of it has to do with farm subsidies, right? So World War II, we needed to figure out how to modernize the American farming system. So they built refrigerated trucks and they had this big public works program to getting electricity out to these rural farms to try and get us to just completely quintuple the amount of American dairy production so we could powder that milk

and send it to the troops to beat Hitler. And we did. And then we did. Hitler's dead or in the Yucatan Peninsula somewhere. I don't know, who knows. But then we came back and we're like, oh God, we have too much milk. Right.

And so we basically, so much of the economy ran off of these dairy subsidies and American farmers have always been a huge part of both the economy and the political lobbying process. Right. That we're like, we have so much more milk than people can drink or than we feel like getting to them. So the government cheese program was born,

mandatory school lunch milks everywhere. Yeah, the Got Milk campaign. The Got Milk campaign. We had a poster of Shaq with a milk mustache in our library. Is there a similar reason to why corn isn't everything? Oh, it's like almost the exact same reason. Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah.

It just became the- I like to learn, so this is great for me. Yeah. You're in the right place. All of it has to do with, right, it was like 100 years ago, more than 40% of Americans lived on farms, and now it's like 4%. Right. And so everything has been consolidating

via vertical integration. So you get these monstrous companies like Monsanto that own everything. And also monoculture farming basically destroys the soil to the point where we can't even rotate different vegetables and different crops in there.

So they just need to grow more corn to find more market for more corn to then patent more corn seeds. So the point is, the food waste problem in America is so invisible to so many people and we are all a culprit in it. So of that 30 to 40% of food that gets wasted every single year,

a lot of it's in the industrial side of it, right? You put 100,000 apples onto a truck. Some of those apples are going to spoil. Some of them are going to bruise. Naturally. All this stuff. Dairy subsidies, farmers are paid to just spray milk into the ground because there's no real thing that happens

because they have no market for it. And packaging that milk and getting it to people will be more expensive than them just spraying it to the ground. But then in our own homes, we buy so much food in such large quantities. I remember a roommate bought a 10-pound bag of spinach from Costco. Do you know how much, how big

a 10-pound bag of spinach is? I just think of how not dense a spinach leaf is. The whole size of the fridge almost. It was a MyPillow. The MyPillow guy came out. Yeah, Mike or whatever, yeah. That's funny.

And I had to make a giant tray of spanakopita just to try and use up this person's spinach that otherwise would have gone to waste. And I feel like you were one of the few people who could go, how can I do this? You know, because I've bought a tiny bag of spinach and not used it. Because I couldn't, ah, God, too complicated.

We've all been there. That's everybody, though. We've all been there. No, that's everybody though. We've all been there. We buy aspirationally, right? Oh, true. That's so true. That's very true. We're like,

I'm going to be a new person. New Jarvis is going to buy a whole head of cauliflower and cut it up himself. Oh, and it's going to be so tasty. Oh no, I'm tired. And I don't want to do anything, actually. I have a whole bag of parsnips

haven't touched in a week. Yeah, I got carrots wilting in my fridge right now. Yeah, it's really disappointing. I told myself I'd make stuffed bell peppers tonight with a little mirepoix in there. I'm not going to want to do that. No, no, no, no, sir. I'm going to order Zancou chicken.

It cost $18. Oh, but it's so good, the Zancou chicken. Oh my God, Zancou chicken? Every time. It's food poisoning. Can't do it anymore. Every time. can't do it every time the point is food waste is like such a multifaceted issue that we're all sort of part of in our own ways but that doesn't neglect the fact that these videos are so hyper

visible and then also sort of like lead to more but again they're a business right yeah if we made sure all of our videos were like, here's how to use your parsley stems, congrats, we wouldn't have a job. Yeah, that's true. Oh, 100%. And I think that again, like spectacle sells. I think that that's the market

that the attention market, I guess, that we exist in now. You have to figure out how to grab people's attention with food if that's your beat. If you want to do food entertainment, oh my God, that's something that's been done for decades and decades. People want to see something new and interesting.

So then you get the mad scientists of TikTok that start. I was watching something in the car after I parked here. I got here 10 minutes early and I was parked and I was like, let me just watch something. My friend had sent me this guy, I think it's Eli's Kitchen or something, where they're food processing some bologna

and they were pouring some dairy in it. I was like, I think it's supposed to look gross, but then he actually tries it and is trying to go for something, like mad scientist style. I didn't stick around. I was like, no, thank you. This is too nasty for me. But some people are like, yes, even grosser.

Yeah, I mean, we made a Gordon Ramsay's Beef Wellington, but with only ingredients found in a 7-Eleven and wrapped a bunch of pureed hot dog. That had basis in French cooker. You made a sort of farce with egg whites, much like you make a seafood mousseline, albeit with hot dogs. Bad times.

Bad times. And we didn't eat that. Of course, yeah. We didn't eat that. That went right in the trash. We tried it. That video got us millions upon millions of views, which pays for us to have healthcare.

And then also, I believe, led to paid integrations. Yeah, sure. Again, are the cornerstone of the business. And the way I think about that is Eddie Burback. We're all friends with Eddie. Terrible person. What? I'm sorry? Always saying this. Sorry, why?

I think he's great. His mustache is fantastic. How many carbon emissions and how much gas did he use up to drive to every rainforest cafe in America? That's it. I feel, yeah, it's like one of those, you could ask that question about almost everything that everyone, and that was just the thing. It's like, if you choose to take that angle, then you're going to find problems with everything.

100%. That's very true. So anytime you are producing anything, right, there's going to be an amount of waste. And if you're coming at it from an environmental angle, which a lot of the food waste stuff is, methane production coming from landfills, or even just a general ethical angle, you're going to be able to find anything that you can,

I don't want to say complain to minimize it, but that's the real thing. Can we back up? Because I think I understand something, but the audience is probably smarter than me. But I'm just want to say complain to minimize it, but that's the real thing. Can we back up? Because I think I understand something, but maybe the audience is probably smarter than me. But I'm just going to say, so my understanding about the landfill problem is like the simple-minded person like myself would go, oh, it's food. It's biodegradable. It can just go in the ground and kind of feed the soil. But what I understand is that when there's so much bio-waste packed and packed and packed in these landfills,

it just generates a bunch of methane, which is bad for the environment and doesn't actually... It just doesn't work. That whole process doesn't happen. No, if we were actively turning every piece of food scrap into compost, one, America eats too much Velveeta to turn into compost for real. And then it's also the packaging and all that stuff that's going in there. But that's the way that I understand it.

But then I think there's something so unique about food waste in videos that gets people so riled up and reasonably is that you could imagine that spaghetti on that counter and you're imagining a hungry child. Right. That spaghetti could have gone into that child's mouth. Right. Yes.

Like if you're watching someone make chocolate sculptures on TikTok, this isn't like chocolate doesn't have this immense nutritional value, whereas like they're making food where the ingredients could have been something that they ate that night for dinner. But they couldn't have been. I guess is my point. They simply couldn't have been. Because we have it every single step in the process before that spaghetti got to that Lysol countertop to be turned into commerce for the person,

for Rick Lacks, the Facebook magician who's the ringleader of all this. I heard recently that, okay, we should talk about Rick Lacks later because I've heard that Rick Lx Productions is not around anymore and some of the people have gone off to do their own outrage content and then other new people have taken up the mantle

of the ridiculous countertop food situation. The BuzzFeed, the why I left Rick Lax. Why I left Rick Lax. Let me watch those teary-eyed videos. You just like, I don't know, smear Orville Redenbacher popcorn all over your face and then

say, my friends are coming over later. This is going to be delicious. What was I talking about? You were talking about how even, so people get angry because they could imagine that food being fed to someone. At every single point in the production process of that food,

from the growing of the wheat to the packaging at the pasta factory to the stocking of the shelves to that being transported on trucks, at every single point in that production process, something was wasting significantly more food than the person who actually put it on the counter, right? Ooh, so what I'm hearing is that this is more like a pushing consumer responsibility, like where it's actually like a corporate responsibility, like this tried and true thing that's happened with capitalism, I guess,

where it's like, okay, yeah, where everybody's, recycle, but then really the people who are doing all the waste is these big corporations that we can't see. As individuals, we have no ability to regulate. Dried pasta is a bad example because that can sit on a shelf for forever. But one really interesting thing is, we've talked about this on the podcast before, sell by, use by, expiration dates. But when you say expiration, what does that mean? Because they're now saying sell-by. And there's no scientific basis in any of these. They're saying sell-by or use-by.

So if you see use-by on that, yogurt is the best example. Yogurt's already rotten. It's already the point. Yogurt just makes more yogurt. Yogurt is how they figured out how to consume milk before history was written down, they've been making yogurt. You're putting it in a fridge, that's going to last forever. Yogurt turns how they figured out how to consume milk before history was written down they've been making yogurt. You're putting it in a fridge. That's going to last forever.

Yogurt turns into more yogurt. I know if there's mold on it, don't eat it. Remove the mold. But if it's like an airtight seal, the odds that mold, you know. Yeah, it's just more back to your growth, which is how yogurt is made. You know what I mean?

It's like getting mold on blue cheese. It's like, well, that's the point. And I've talked to actual food scientists about this, but there's a huge lobbying effort to be like, don't let them put sell-by dates on it because their goal is to get you to buy more yogurt. Yogurt company's goal isn't to feed you

nutrition. Their goal is to get you to buy more freaking yogurt. Right, because they have quarterly sales goals. Yeah, they gotta make money. And they can manufacture, you know, like the cynic in me could say, they could just, if numbers, if like sales are not where they got to make money. And they can manufacture, you know, like the cynic in me could say they could just, if numbers, if like sales are not

where they need to be, they could just move that date back, shrink that window of consumability. And now you have to replace it more often and make them more money. No, you're 100. And that actually does happen.

But that's why they lobby so they can use, you know, those sort of labels on it. And so, I don't know. My thing is, there just needs to be more corporate responsibility. And then for people, you don't need to go to Costco, right? You don't need to buy. And if you're feeding, if you're John and Kate plus eight,

wait, are they bad? It was the other ones that were even worse. Kind of. The Duggars are worse. The Duggars are worse. They've got drama for sure, but let's pretend it's 2004. Okay. Single ladies is on the airwaves.

Yeah, no, listen, the Duggars are bad, but they probably needed Costco. They needed a lot more than Costco, but they needed Costco. But most people don't. And Americans significantly overbuy, and 30% to 40% of not only all food in the production system, all food in refrigerators goes to waste. Anything you see online, I know it's hyper visible and it hurts to see that,

but it is a drop, drop, drop in the bucket and it's simply a necessary part of our jobs. Breathe. I buy paper towels at Costco. Me too. I'm probably wasteful. I should use more towels, like reusable towels and wash them. But then I'm like, oh no, the water consumption.

I can't do the math. I don't know how to do the optimization. Like what is the right thing to do? How do I be a mindful consumer? I think you're trying your best. I like to think that everyone on planet Earth is trying their best. But I think whenever they wake up, they're like, I can't do this anymore. best i would like to think that everyone on planet earth is trying their best but i think whenever they wake up they're like i can't do this anymore so they have a come to jesus moment

themselves and they're like i don't want to use paper plates anymore i don't want to use paper towels anymore but on me i still use both of those things yeah thoroughly do you guys think free will exists like if we're talking because we're talking about consumer responsibility of course it's like i want to believe could be a thing, but I don't think it is. I think we're all just sort of subject to market forces. Free will definitely exists. I mean, I think that, okay, hold on.

I think that free will is like, we need to zoom in a little bit from free will because that is a deterministic whole universe thing, which we're not going to crack that today. We have five minutes left. But I do think that what you're saying about market forces is very valid because the average consumer has so many concerns in their life that are not how do I be the most efficient, mindful, responsible consumer.

It's like I've got bills to pay, I've got mouths to feed, And if there's a little bit of food waste while I'm feeding those mouths, that's not my biggest concern. Yeah, it's not the end of the world. You know, that's not the end of the world. And so the inertia, like the friction, you were going against the grain to combat those market forces. And so to your point, I think that the average person or en masse, we are all going to just go with the flow of those market forces. Whatever's easiest. Because whatever's easiest, it's like we've got so many stressors in our lives. And so you have to choose to add a new stressor to your life to go against those market forces.

There's only so much stress we can take, you guys. To go against those market forces, you know? There's only so much stress we can take, you guys. Is there any validity in urging people to consume content on the internet more efficaciously in the same sense we could urge them to consume better in real life? So for instance, I have pledged, because I'm a good person,

to stop watching the videos on Twitter that show up in my feed now that say, teacher knocks student out. Why are those? They're everywhere. Oh, the fake ones? The fake ones? It's called crazy clips.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're in a classroom and they're like, oh, what's the teacher going to do? Is he going to go right across the number cut? And I realized that I was watching them. I'm like, I hate myself for this. I'm going to block all these accounts and I'm going to never continue that again.

Yeah. You know? I hate myself for this. I'm going to block all these accounts and I'm going to never consume that again. I'm mad that those have just entered everyone's feed. It feels, in the most dystopian thing, it's like we are now being, I've never had so many thoughts about an algorithm before this moment in time with Twitter. Or I'm like, whatever, I'm seeing my friends' posts out of order.

Because that was the whole thing about chronological feeds. But now I'm being forced to watch fights and grotesque videos and kind of like the morbid curiosity of society now leaking into... You're talking to rotten.com kids. Right.

I'm like, why is this happening? It makes me so mad. Elon, stop it. Please. This is my call. This is my plea. Well, at the end of the day, we're all simply salmon swimming upstream, hoping against hope that we can do just a little drop of good in our communities.

Everybody, spay and neuter your pets. Are you guys still going to go to buffets after this? No, I actually don't go to buffets. Good for you. You can pry all you can eat buffets out of my cold, I've heard there's really good buffets somewhere, though,

in places. Like, I've heard Vegas has really good buffets. I go to Reno. I'm a Reno guy. Okay, cool. Vegas has the best buffets. Are you going to buffets

or are you at the Clio Post? I don't like buffets. I think they're whack. I think they're a waste of time, money, and energy. Oh, wait. While we're here, how do we feel about, like,

7-Eleven food that's been heated for God knows how long? It's food safe. I trust the science as long as it's above 140 degrees. I agree. Okay, cool. God bless 7-Eleven. I figured that's what, because I'm like, there's no way that this huge corporation is like feeding people poison.

I don't think. But I also understand why people are like, that's gross. Poison. The last botulism death in America was from gas station nacho cheese. Nacho cheese. Botulism. That's an old-timey disease. Yeah, that came back.

But speaking of botulism, as we're wrapping up, that's another TikTok thing where, you know, pink sauce, where it was like, let me just make this and then, like, use, like, I don't know how to ship this. And then, like, it's not refrigerated. And then it's a huge risk of maybe one of the worst things that can happen with, like, all the nerve damage and stuff. You know, like Botox is like botulism. Oh honey, I know. I can't frown.

It's so, but by all means use it in a controlled environment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't tell, but I'm so upset right now. But that's so scary. So it's like on one hand, I'm like, yeah, go off. Like, be your own boss or whatever. But on the other hand, like, please don't feed people this. Yeah, there's limitations to your... I've eaten a lot of oysters from shopping carts. I'm immune to it. All right, Nicole and Jarvis.

We've heard what you and I have to say. Now it's time to find out what other wacky ideas are rattling out in the universe. It's time for a segment we call... Opinions are like casseroles! This is a very jingle-based podcast. That's fun. There's a lot of unison. I want to join. Can I say it? Opinions are like casseroles. No one said it with me, but that's fine. Let's a lot of unison. I want to join. Can I say it? Opinions are like casseroles. No one said it with me.

Let's roll the clip. Opinions are like casseroles. I thought it was going to be a three, two, one, go. I'll do that. Three, two, one, go. Opinions are like casseroles. It feels good having a permanent third host. Permanent, yeah. I'm here every

week. All right, let's listen to some voicemails Wait, can we get into the note that I had written on our research document That we never got to get to? What do you want to talk about? Well, I just simply wrote Hidden Media Economies journalist David Farrier Tickled documentary on competitive endurance tickling

What does this have to do with food waste? I could not remember why I wrote that or where it tied in. Hidden media economies, I think that's like Rick Lacks' productions. That's a hidden media economy. Similar to the competitive endurance tickling media economy, maybe? Which is something that sounds like a combination

of words you just made up now. That's the official, that's what they have to call it so people don't think it's a sex thing. Endurance tickling sounds horrific. That is torture to me. And why do you add competition to it?

Right. I don't know. Nicole, you should sign up for competitive, well, they mostly want young fit men. Oh, sorry. I'm like,

I can turn my tickle on and off. What? Like, you can try to tickle me and like, I have no reaction. Do I have to? No, you don't. You don't need to do it.

Don't touch me. You don't need to touch need to that's a thing that like in a school like uh going to public school if you ever talked about how you were good at being tickled someone would tickle you and so i'd just be like no no i just i'm laughing just thinking about it don't touch me please let's get to that first opinion i forgot about that Yeah Let's have an opinion More of a question Specifically for Josh But Nicole if you know Please answer

Do y'all know I'm from North Georgia Do y'all know why in Georgia Atlanta especially We eat our wings with fried rice I have a few theories about Korean immigration here, but I don't know. If y'all can figure it out, please let me know. I have never heard of...

Me either. I'm going to do a quick Google real quick. Y'all talk amongst yourselves. Okay. Give me some hypotheses. So I'm going to say something that maybe is going to get me flamed in the comments here. But I went to school in Atlanta for four years.

Okay. And I ate a lot of wings. How old were you? I was 18 to 21. Got it. GT or Emory? Georgia Tech, yes. Nice.

And I never experienced this, but I feel like maybe I wasn't going to the real spots. I'm going to say strip club culture Oh You know about What's it called?

Magic Magic City Magic City They got the Lou Williams wings on there Yep You find a lot of these combinations That people would find Quote unquote weird

And there's a lot of debate about it One big one Is fried fish and spaghetti We're talking about red sauce spaghetti Which is served at a lot of soul food restaurants There's a great soul food spot in Culver City that serves lasagna as a side. Dooland?

No, no, no. It's a new one that actually it burnt down recently, which sucks. But you could just get lasagna as a side, which is cool. And it's just one of these sort of, a lot of chicken and waffles, Atlanta is known as a hotbed.

And as the origin goes, black church services were so long, they would start in the morning and they would just go through the evening and they would serve people food. And so there were waffles at breakfast and then they'd have leftover waffles. No food waste! And then the fried chicken would come out during lunch and people would be like,

well, we still got the waffles left over. We're going to eat it. Brilliant. And so that's at least the origin story. So fried rice and wings, it might just have something to do with it. Could be maybe Korean restaurateurs opened up Chinese American restaurants, which, you know, that's popular in freaking every culture. Every cultural is Chinese food. And then, you know, if wings were also something that Atlanta is definitely known for, maybe Korean Chinese restaurant owners started frying up wings and

starting with fried rice. But that's something I'd never heard of. And it's fascinating. Yeah. It does make sense to me that if an item is just popular in general in an area, you would just throw it on your menu to get the extra business. That's the way to do it. And then maybe people just put two and two together or maybe some entrepreneurial mind just decided to combo them. Combo number one, chicken and fried rice. It sounds good.

Nothing about that sounds like it wouldn't and fried rice. It sounds good. There's nothing about that sounds like it wouldn't work to me. Sure. No. Especially with the right spice combo. Yeah, I mean, fried rice, it's a delicious, cheap-filling food. That's a great meal. Wings and fried rice. I'm in. I never heard of that, though. Thank you for illuminating us on that.

I did. I Googled it, and a Reddit post just came up saying, best chicken wings, fried rice, and fries combo in Atlanta. And the first comment is just that's very specific. And yeah, so it must be a thing.

Fun. Do we have any of those in LA, like weird combos in LA? I'm thinking like the sushi bars that'll have kimchi on the menu

because a lot of sushi bars are owned by Korean people in LA. But I can't think of anything. Yeah, I've seen a lot of those combos. Specifically like Korean-Japanese combos. Yeah, that's seen a lot of those combos, specifically like Korean-Japanese combos,

which is great for me because sometimes you have a little craving of both cuisine. 100%. I'll think on it more. Hello. Hey. Hi.

I am a long time, no. Short time. I've been listening to Hot Dog is a Sandwich for one year. Oh. Wow. And I like this podcast. I've been listening to Hot Dog is a Sandwich for one year. Oh. And I like this podcast.

I like you, buddy. My controversial opinion is that any white meat, say breaded chicken or breaded fish, needs to be dipped in applesauce. Whoa. Needs? Hey-oh. Needs. Nicole, flame this child. Get him. Needs? Hey-o. Needs. Nicole, flame this child. Get him.

No, I'm not. No, no, no, no. That's up to you, buddy. I hope you're doing well in language class. Nothing, like, again, that doesn't sound offensive. I think the one place where I draw the line is needs. I agree. The needs was the kicker for me.

I will say though, I had so many thoughts like that when I was a kid and when I was discovering what I loved about food and I think the thing that they identified very accurately is that fat and starch loves acid.

So you get something like, even if it's baked, there's generally some sort of oil on the breading. And so you have a breaded piece of meat. I would put something like tartar sauce on fried fish. What you want in the tartar sauce is the acidity from the pickles, the mayonnaise, capers, lemon, whatever.

Apples tend to have a lot of acidity. So I think what you've identified is actually really, really smart that you love acidic foods with that type of main entree. And so that's very astute of you. I will try this. Okay, Maybe this is going to sound like a ridiculous combination, but when I was younger,

I was at my best friend's house and his family was Jewish. And it was around a holiday time. I'm not sure which. It's the Hanukkah story, baby. And I had never had a latke before. And someone told me, put the latke in the applesauce.

And I was like, what do you mean? And then I tried it and I was like, whoa, this is great. This is awesome. And there's something about the friedness of the potato that feels like it would fit into a fried chicken situation. So in my mind, I'm like, yeah, that seems fine. Applesauce, I'm in. Okay, controversial opinion of mine.

I drink applesauce. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate applesauce. I love it. I'm a huge fan. Great way to consume an apple in three seconds. Oh my gosh, I despise applesauce. Why?

Wait, even on latkes? Oh my gosh, no. I'm a ketchup on latkes girl. I told you this. We're two different kinds of juice. Dipping latkes. Well, no, I grew up dipping latkes in ketchup Not that I had to try very hard to assimilate But that was one of my assimilative things

I was like, oh this is just This is McDonald's hash browns But now I'm firmly sour cream and applesauce On the same bite I can't, I just don't know what it is The texture is so mealy And it reminds me of vomit. I can't do it.

I get that, but I remind myself that that texture is motivated by the freshness of an apple. If that texture I was experiencing with anything else, I don't think I would be on board. But you can't go wrong with an apple. I like apple juice. I like a raw apple that I can crunch into

and I like the juice. The applesauce in the middle. That's almost the only form like apple juice. I like a raw apple that I can crunch into and I like the juice. The applesauce in the middle. That's almost the only form of apple you don't like is sauced. Yes. So next time you're chewing on an apple, you take a bite of an apple, you chew it right before you swallow, you go, I just made applesauce. I'm going to like this. I think about that way too much. Like mouthwash.

Nice opinion. All right. So I absolutely love you guys and the podcast and totally wish i knew you were in real life sounds like britney come find us because y'all seem like you'd be the best friends that could ever have get that geo guesser guide if mind us anyway done with that lonely depressiveness um hot take ketchup belongs on white people tacos. And by white people tacos, I mean hamburger with the taco seasoning that you get from the grocery store. Um,

cheese and lettuce. I mean, if you think about it, it's practically a hamburger on a tortilla. Um, let me know. Jarvis, you had strong,

you had strong faith. Well, so you know what? When she said hamburger, I wasn't thinking of ground hamburger. I was just thinking of like a hamburger patty and I was like, what's going on? That actually has origins in Mexico City. A journalist named Jose Ralat, I believe,

for Texas Monthly wrote about the origins of hamburger taco because of something that was going viral on TikTok was like a Big Mac taco. Sure, I've seen those. Mexico City. Yeah, they actually have like deep origins. I'm going to Mexico City soon, so I'll have to find the hamburger taco.

I'll legitimately send you the article. I think he shouts out the original place. Yeah, I'm down. I'll go in the field reporting. Did you grow up eating like the hard shell tacos? A bit. A little bit i think i definitely uh i think i had a i definitely had mini flour tortilla tacos before i ever had a corn tortilla taco but i do feel like

a switch flipped in my brain and maybe just a little uh my little elitism jumped out where i'm like uh especially like living i used to live in san francisco and there were just so many good like tacos around mission yeah and i lived in the Francisco and there were just so many good like tacos around. Yeah. And I lived in the mission. Oh, there you go. So it was just like, I can't go back. I would, I would like buy like a rate bus from like a guy in a truck, like outside my

apartment and was not thinking about how the food was being kept. I was just like, it looks good. I'm just going to not question it. Same, don't question. Yeah. It was by a truck. You're thinking of a food truck. It was just like, it looks good. I'm just going to not question it. Same. Don't question. Yeah. It was by a truck. You're thinking of a food truck. It was a Ford F-150. Dude, tamales, tacos de canasta, pupusas. Yeah. From all sorts of shopping carts and just random coolers on wheels on a dolly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm in.

I have a lot of trust. I would have eaten the pink sauce. So ketchup? So ketchup. First We Feast actually produced a really great documentary on the black taco movement in Los Angeles. I was going to talk about Sky's Tacos. Sky's Tacos, Taco Mel. I mean, Keith from All Flavor No Grease, he does a kind of different variety,

but a lot of them are actually ground turkey as well. And a lot of people do put ketchup on them. That's right. And also if you think about taco sauce, so you're getting like picante sauce, but not paste picante sauce, but taco sauce from a jar. Ortega is the brand that does it. Taco sauce is

literally an invention for white people that was just a hybrid of ketchup and actual like salsa roja. So wild, yeah. And so a lot of this has roots that go back 50, 60 years. And so I'm all for it. But I do think it's funny when people say, you know, white people tacos, because I'm like, they're kind of just like non-Mexican tacos.

Because it was also big in like the black community, especially in South LA. I was going to bring up Skye's and I actually had their ground beef tacos and it was sweet and a little acidic. And I'm like, there's got to be ketchup in this. And I didn't go up and ask them, but like I tasted it. And I'm like, with my table, I was like, you guys taste the ketchup? And they're like, yeah. And it was actually decent. Do I like it more or less than a street taco?

I don't really know. But there's precedent for it to exist. I wouldn't just put straight ketchup on a white people taco, though. I wouldn't do that. I probably wouldn't either. But I would put probably a pretty sugary salsa on it. We have so many sauces. If you put,

putting like salsa verde on a white people taco doesn't taste right. Yeah. That's true. That's a good point. I agree with you. It's like putting real hot sauce on a Taco Bell burrito. It's like, no,

I love doing that. I need the tomato paste and the corn syrup. What? Yeah. Yeah. I love using hot sauces from like my house to put it on the Taco Bell. Don't taste right. All right.

Is that, do you just use the regular Taco Bell sauce? Yeah. Fire. I think Taco Bell fire sauce. I like the fire sauce. Taco Bell. Don't taste right. All right, do you just use the regular Taco Bell sauce? Yeah, fire. I think Taco Bell sauce is the best. I like the fire sauce. Taco Bell fire sauce is the best.

I like adding, I tear a little, tiny little hole and I just dab it on every bite. Same, same, same,

same. It's very good. The first bite, you just got to go, so it kind of hits your palate first to sort of force it in there. sure. Yeah.

God, I want Taco Bell now. All right, one more. Maggie, have we got time for one more? Yeah. Hey Josh and Nicole, this is Tommy from Aurora, Illinois. I'm sure. God, I want to talk about that. All right, one more. Maggie, have we got time for one more? Yeah. Hey, Josh and Nicole.

This is Tommy from Aurora, Illinois. I'm calling to see if you guys can help me settle a debate my brother and I have been having for the last few months. So in his opinion, he thinks that chilaquiles are a nacho. And in my opinion, they are closer to a lasagna just with replacing noodles with a tortilla chip. If you could help us figure this one out, that'd be great. Love the pod. Bye. I know what this is. It's just like a...

I was not expecting him to say it's closer to a lasagna. Have you guys seen the lasagna soup TikTok things where they take up the lasagna noodles and they put them in the soup and then they pick it up and it's like this big starchy tomato-y mess. Chile Quiles is lasagna

soup. It's not lasagna. It's not nachos. It's lasagna soup. It's not constructed lasagna soup. It's lasagna soup. That's it. I will not be taking any questions at this time. There's so much. Y'all, there's so much to explicate here. So if we wanted to find a Mexican equivalent of lasagna,

something that's layered, you could look at New Mexican style enchiladas. So enchiladas typically in Mexico are not baked, right? It's something that the tortillas are fried in oil, then they're dipped in sauce, rolled, and that's it. And that's the way that I prefer them. A lot of Americans tend to bake them. A lot of that comes from New Mexico tradition. But the difference

in New Mexico is they are typically stacked. They're not rolled. And again, New Mexico, I have a friend who her family dates back to 500 years ago in New Mexico. So that's a very valid food culture that I would call a part of Mexican food culture. So there's that. Chilaquiles

are kind of thousands of years old. Chilaquiles are kind of thousands of years old. I love chilaquiles. Chilaquiles is a Nahuatl word. Like it predates the Spanish conquistador showing up to the shores. It did not look like it does today with, you know, Tostitos chips sauteed

in the La Victoria salsa. But that's actually like a really, really old dish. And then nachos were, gosh, like 50, 60 years ago. Chef literally named Ignacio or Nacho in Piedras Negras Coahuila, I believe. So I think they have completely divergent histories, albeit looking

similarly now. I don't think lasagna is anywhere close to chilaquiles. Do you think they're enchiladas? At all. Yeah, yeah. New Mexican enchiladas are the Mexican lasagna. What were the like the Tostito chip equivalent

historically for chilaquiles? Maybe you said that and I just wasn't. No, no. So I mean it probably, so chilaquiles just comes from the word like greens and chilies because they would just make a sauce with greens and chilies and put it on tortillas. And so tortillas actually predate leavened bread by thousands of years.

So did tamales, actually. Tamales is a really cool one. And so, yeah, it just likely wasn't fried into crispy chips. I mean, that still sounds good. Yeah, because processing cooking oil would have probably been harder back then. They didn't have a lot of big animals to make lard. And so, yeah, probably just delicious fresh tortillas and chilies and greens. I mean, that's a winning formula. That's a $17 brunch dish, you know?

It's lasagna soup. It's lasagna soup. All right, I think that about wraps it up. Jarvis, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. I feel very educated. I learned so much today. Where can the people find you?

At my house. No, you can find me on YouTube. If you just search for Jarvis, I think it's youtube.com slash Jarvis. I also have a podcast called Sad Boys, a comedy podcast about feelings. And yeah, catch me wherever. We have a podcast. It's called This One. You're listening

to it. We got new episodes of it out every Wednesday, wherever you get the podcast. Every Sunday, the video comes out on the YouTube. If you want to be featured on Opinions on our Casseroles, you can hit us up at 833-DOG-POD-1. The number, again, is 833-DOG-POD-1. And for more Mythical Kitchen, check out Mythical Kitchen. You know where it is.

See you all next time.