Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - WAGNER MOURA — on joining ‘Dope Thief’ last minute and bonding with co-star Brian Tyree Henry

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

'Dope Thief’ and ‘Narcos’ star Wagner Moura joins the show. Over pepperoni pizza, Wagner tells me his love for soap operas, preparing for his role as Pablo Escobar in hit Netflix series ‘Narcos’ and working on Ridley Scott’s new Apple TV+ series ‘Dope Thief.’ This episode was recorded Milo & Olive in Santa Monica, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everybody, it's hoda koppi and I would love for you to join me for new episodes of my podcast making space each week, I'm having conversations with authors actors speakers and your friends of mine folks who are seeking the truth. Compassion and self discovery. I promise you will leave these talks stronger and inspired to make space in your own life for growth and change. To start listening, just search Making Space wherever you get your podcasts and follow for new episodes every Wednesday. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Huggy Snug and Dry. As a dad of two little ones, Beckett who's almost five and Sully who's just over two,

I've changed more diapers than I thought was humanly possible. On a floor of a restaurant bathroom? Yeah, I've been there. In the backseat of a car? Oh yeah, that's like our favorite place to do it. Once in an airplane seat? That was my proudest moment, also not the easiest to do. I'm sure any parents listening agree, when you find a diaper that actually does its job, you stick with it, right? Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection of Huggies Snug and Dry diapers. So messes stay where they belong, not on me or my furniture or, heaven forbid, a flight attendant.

More parents choose the new Huggies Snug and Dry softness versus the leading premium diapers. Huggies, we got you, baby. Hi, it's Jesse. We got you, baby. Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you know him as Pablo Escobar on the hit Netflix series Narcos, as Joel in Alex Garland's Civil War, and more recently as protagonist Manny in the Apple Plus series Dope Thief, it's Wagner Mora. I love telenovelas.

Yeah. Okay. And it's just the best way to decompress is to see like those evil characters saying evil things and really wanting to fuck up the lives of other person. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It won't come as a surprise to anyone listening, but I absolutely loved being a part of Modern Family. Yes, it was incredible to work on a show that people genuinely loved watching, and yes,

it was lovely to be recognized with awards, but more than that, it was a rare and special thing. It was a lightning in a bottle. In an industry where finding consistent work is tough, landing a job on a hit show is a once-in-a-lifetime blessing. What made it even more meaningful was the social impact that Modern Family had, especially within the LGBTQ community. When the show premiered, only a handful of states had legalized same-sex marriage, and over time, Modern Family became more than just a popular sitcom. It became a cultural touchstone, a reflection of shifting values, and in some ways, a catalyst for change. It's a rare and beautiful thing

when the work we do as artists aligns with the world we hope to help build. Wagner Mora is someone else who seems to have cracked that code, whether through great choices or great luck, actually, probably both. He's an actor who doesn't just take on roles, he takes on missions.

His work is packed with social and political meaning and he brings a kind of fire to his role that makes you really pay attention. Take Narcos, for example. Wagner didn't just play Pablo Escobar, he basically earned a second diploma in Spanish to do it. As a native Portuguese speaker, he didn't

just learn the lines phonetically. He dove in headfirst, committed to getting the nuance, the rhythm, the danger, and yes, even the dad bod energy of Escobar just right. That's dedication. And now, in his new Apple Plus series, Dope Thief, he's continuing that tradition, playing another layered, morally complicated character that reflects the same passion he brings to his activism. Maura has this incredible ability to take on roles that are gritty, real, and rooted in the bigger questions while still keeping you glued to the screen. At the end of the day, we all hope our work can be more than just entertainment. We hope it can spark conversations, open minds, and maybe once in a while, help push the world in a slightly better direction.

Wagner Mora certainly does that. Hi, how are you? How are you? Are you ready? Oh, thank you. Thanks for coming to the support of the film. Are you kidding me? I'll take it from you.

I brought Wagner Mora to Milo and Olive in Santa Monica. Milo and Olive is the cozy, cool Santa Monica spot from the husband and wife team, Chef Zoe Nathan and Josh Loeb, who also helm sister restaurants Huckleberry and Rusta Canyon. Known for Zoe's legendary 48-hour pizza dough, listen, you have to order a pizza,

and head baker Andrea's crave-worthy breads and pastries, Milo and Olive is all about seasonal local goodness and laid-back vibes. Not to mention it made the Michelin Guide in 2021, 22, and 23. This was my first time meeting Wagner after being a longtime admirer of his work and I can't think of a better way to spark a new friendship than by sharing a pepperoni pizza. Okay, let's get to the conversation. I'm single-parenting my kids this week. I'm alone with three dudes.

I'm happy to come over here. I'm a parent myself, so I know. I know. How old are your kids? Four and a half and two and a half. How about yours? kids? Four and a half and two and a half. How about yours? Very old. My oldest is 18.

Then I have another guy who's 14. And my youngest is 12. You must have had kids young. Yeah, I was 30. I'm 48. I was 30. I mean, I'm 50. How are you older?

How am I older than you when I have younger children? I mean, can I say, I think that I'm a way better father now than I was when I was 30. Way better. Well, I think I am having kids at the right time. But you know, you met your wife in college, right? Yeah.

So you had a good maybe 10 years, eight years before having kids? Five. Five years, okay. Five years. But it is interesting, I always think about that. I always go like, oh, I remember when it was just the two of us. I know.

Well that's just- We could do whatever the fuck we want. Exactly, travel anywhere. Traveling. Oh, let's like, let's go to another state. Let's travel internationally. When? Tomorrow? Let's just, let's like let's go to like another state. Let's let's travel internationally when tomorrow Yeah, just let's do it now. It's like we're we used to be like a boat and now we are like a Titanic. Yeah Move like I know so so yeah

Yeah, I get it. Yeah I'm doing good. Can I get you guys started with any drinks? I'll have some just sparkling water. Okay. I'll grab some sparkling water. With some squeezed lemon, if you could. With some lemon? Yeah. Yeah, you got it.

I'm going to actually have your Mexican Sprite with grenadine. I love that. Shirley Temple. I haven't had a Shirley Temple in so long, but Mexican Sprite I haven't had in... That's like with the real sugar, right? So that's like natural cane sugar, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Cool. With extra sugar, yeah. Yes.

Which has your sugar on top of it. I will, I will. You know, but at some point, I think I'll have a glass of Cabernet. Oh yeah, we have good one. With like a glass of Cabernet. At some point. Yeah. At some point.

At some point. It's gonna come. At some point, just bring it over. I'll grab the drink. Yeah, thank you. Have you been here? I walked in here, I was like, why is this place giving me deja vu? Like about five or six years ago,

I had a little bit of skin cancer on my face, it was here, and I had to get it removed, but like, it was when I was shooting Modern Family still, so like, I couldn't let them like shave my face, they shaved like a little patch of my beard off, and then they cut out the skin cancer piece, and then they check the perimeter of what they've taken off to make sure that that's cancer free, if it is and they can stitch you up

But it takes a while to like test that the sample that they've taken so I was starving I was across the street. I basically had a chunk of my cheek taken off They slapped some gauze on my face taped me up and I came over here and ate Ate some pizza and had a glass of wine at the bar. That's exactly what we're having. I got like a text message from them like it's all you're all clear so I went back across the street got stitched up. So there is a memory for here. The funny thing was because they had shaved off a bit of my beard and then also I had stitches on my face and I'm still shooting Modern Family. They made like a little patch of hair that they basically taped to my beard and it was like always flapping around.

I have actually seen those episodes every once in a while. It looks like they have like strange, weird, hairy growth coming out. Do you go back to Modern Family? Do you watch like sometimes you go like, I'm going to watch this episode. If it's on, like if I'm in a hotel or something and I like pass by, I'll sometimes stop for a little while just to see if I can remember like what was happening. And also, if I'm on a plane and I see people watching it

across the way, has that ever happened to you? Where someone's watching like Narcos on the plane? I know, I have never. I guess Narcos isn't really a plane, that doesn't give you a lot of peace in the air. You know, you need to watch something comforting, like Modern Family if you're flying. You look so different from every other role

I've seen you play. You're kind of a chameleon in a way that I wasn't really expecting. Obviously in Narcos you looked totally different. I'm glad they didn't say that I'm different from that. I know you had gained weight for that. That was crap. But then I was watching Dope Thief.

But you look so different in that too, than you do right now. You look completely different. Yeah. Yeah, we like to play with the different looks and hair. Yeah, well you're a theater guy, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I'm gonna do theater this year, and I'm very excited about it. But I'm also terrified. Because the last play that I did was in 2009. What was it? Hamlet. Wow. Just a little play called Hamlet.

But it was my last experience on stage. Wow. So yeah, it's been a while. So what's your next one? It's an adaptation of Enemy of the People. It's not the play. Oh wow. The Ipsen play.

It's not Ipsen's play per se, but it's gonna be like an adaptation style. And are you doing this back in Brazil? Starting in Brazil and then do the whole Europe Avignon, Edinburgh, all those European festivals. Yeah. Did you happen to see Jeremy Strong do it on Broadway? Yeah, yeah. yeah. And made it really like that. Really like that. I really like that. Jeremy Strong is so, so great. Yeah. Are you in the mood for pizza or? Yes, yes.

What kind of pizza do you like? You really can't go wrong with any pizza. Start with the dough. It's all farm to table ingredients. My personal favorite is the margarita. But any of the pizzas are really good. The mixed mushroom is a really great white pizza if you're in the mood for that.

Our traditional pepperoni pizza is really delicious. It's a cup pepperoni. Some of the best pizza you'll find in the world, in my opinion. And it's like, should we share pizzas? Yeah, everything at this restaurant's been to be shared. The pizzas are 12 inches, six slices each. Every dish on the menu is perfect for two to three people.

Okay, do you eat pepperoni? I do, I like pepperoni. Yeah, so can you have like half something or half something? Yeah, you can half if the sauce is the same. If you couldn't do a half white, half red. But you could do half pepperoni, half margarita. Let's do that. Okay. Let's do that. Okay.

Can we get a side of the hot honey? A side of hot honey on pizza? Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. You're so lovely. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Wagner tells me about the hilarious circumstances under which he met Dope Thief executive producer Ridley Scott for the first time and shares a bonding moment he had with his Dope Thief co-star, Brian Tyree Henry. Okay, be right back. Dope Thief co-star Brian Tyree Henry. Okay, be right back.

All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, boar's head oven gold turkey. Always, it's juicy, it's flavorful, it's the backbone of this operation. Step three. A few slices of Boar's

head smoke master ham because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four. Cheese. Sharp cheddar, if I'm feeling bold. Creamy Swiss, if I'm feeling fancy. Step five. A swipe of Dijon. Step 4. Cheese. Sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold. Creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step 5. A swipe of Dijon. Crisp lettuce. Thin sliced tomato.

And maybe a pickle or two. For drama. Layer it all up. Cut it in half diagonally. And you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter.

Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head Deli counter, Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one.

You need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two. Boar's head oven-gold turkey. Always. It's juicy. It's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation.

Step three. A few slices of Boar's head smoke Master Ham because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese, sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold, creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon, crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato and maybe a pickle or two,

you know, for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you've got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. I'm excited about this enemy of the people adaptation.

That's really exciting. It's such a political play. Yeah. And it's so timely. You tend to lean toward very political Pieces, you know, I think in film and in television and now in theater as well a civil war the the film that you did but being incredibly political and you know a lot of the themes and in Narcos and And of course now, you know in in dope thief, which it's I'm so excited people to see it's so good

Really Scott, right? Yeah, it was such a, you know, I was like, at some point I was like, oh my God. There was a moment where I got there and they had to dye my hair because I had to look younger. Yeah. And then I was in the makeup trailer

with the hairdresser. And he entered. It took us like an hour, right? So he was like, this hair person, Shanika, myself, and fucking really Scott. Man, I was asking him all the questions that us fans have, all the stupid, crazy questions. And he was so gracious and so lovely and answering everything, you know, like with sense of him

is very funny. And you know the thing I like about, I really liked about him is like everything for him is like fuck it. Fuck it. You know? He doesn't care. He doesn't care about... He's earned it though.

I mean, also I think it's a conscious effort to like get to that place where you just do things that are meaningful to you. I feel like as an observer of your career, you have been doing that. It seems like you do stuff that you wanna do and stuff that resonates with you. I mean, have you ever done something

that doesn't feel like it's like an extension of kind of your beliefs and who you are? I really take care of that, Jesse, but sometimes also, for example, Dope Thief, for me, it was, I saw the political aspects of it, which interested me. Like a Latino and a black dude, there are usually, it's a cliche. But when you got closer to the characters, you see that the characters are the opposite of the cliche, of the stereotype.

They're very vulnerable people. They don't want to be there. Many people like in poor people in Brazil, in the country that produce drugs or that could have another life. They could, they could, they could, if the system wasn't so brutal, they could have another life. And that was like, oh, this is politically interesting. I want to do this. These characters are interesting. They're not like the cliche of the macho, testosterone action. There was a lot of tenderness,

and it's a love story between two friends. That's exactly right, yeah. But also, there was a component that really made me do it, of course. I wanted to work with Ridley. I wanted to work with Peter Craig and Brian. Yeah, Brian Tyree Henry. From Atlanta.

He was a fucking great actor. Yeah, he's certainly your first star on it. Became a dear friend of mine. He's incredible. But there was one thing that I was like, this is interesting, because I got called on a Friday to hop on an airplane on Saturday,

try my costumes on Sunday, and shoot on Monday. Why was the turnaround so fast because they had another guy? Oh, this is how you found out you got the job You found out you got the job there were they shot the like two episodes with another actor and then they were like This is not working. Hmm, and they needed another actor like right away. Oh my god, so I I Spoke with Ridley and Peter in the afternoon and I was like guys I I'm very flattered that you're thinking about him but I don't think I can do that. I take preparation so seriously you know. I mean I'm an actor, I'm a serious actor.

But then I was like maybe this is something that's gonna shake me up in a way that I had never experienced before Like to show up on set not really knowing the character that I'm playing well, but just like listen to Brian and react to whatever he's saying and Figure it out while you're doing. Oh, and then and that's exactly what I was doing it. I was like, oh, okay So I think oh so I was like, oh, okay, so I think, oh, so I was understanding the character. You were like playing catch up.

Wait, let me ask you this. When you went into a place, this other actor, had they already shot episode one and two? Yeah. Were they starting again at episode one? They started again. Oh, thank God. I thought you were like popping in on episode three.

Oh no, they reshot the entire thing. I mean, I know eventually they would reshoot it, but like I didn't know where they were in production. So, okay, so you got to start from the beginning at least. They had to reshoot, and then they were like, that's my okay, so you got to start from the beginning of this. They had to wish it. And then they were like, that's my shit, that's real fast. Pressure for you too. And Ridley Scott shoots with six cameras on set.

So it's the fastest thing. And I did tell a novella in Brazil, but this was fast. This was really fast. So I was there like not really knowing my lines, but it was a great experience. And I think now I go like, okay, I think I can do things without that much, you know, effort.

I'm listening to the story and I was like, okay, I prefer to prepare. Exactly. But I can do it if I have to. I can do it if I have to, exactly. I always find the first day on set is so terrifying, even if you're prepared, because you're laying the groundwork for something

that you're gonna have to sustain. And especially if it's a series, it's like eight episodes, it's like, okay, here it is. I'm literally creating the DNA and the blueprint for this character and hopefully it works out because I'm stuck with it. You can't like change your mind halfway through. Yeah, exactly. And then I was making these connections like he is a guy who spends the entire show trying to get out of that cycle of violence. He foresees a life for himself, but in order to do that, he has to break up with Ray, who is Brian's character, who is the love of his life.

It's just to back up a little bit, I mean, when I watched the first episode of Dope Beef, you're a DEA agent, D-E-A agent. And I was like, oh, this is interesting, you know? You had just been playing Pablo Escobar for so long, it's like, oh, now he's on the other side of things. And you find out within about seven minutes that, oh, you guys are not who you seem to be, and you're pretending to be these agents to go in and steal drugs and money.

And it's an incredible twist that happens very early on. But the whole story has these twists. Like you were just saying, it is a love story. It's a show that constantly surprises. And I think it reminded me a lot of that sort of super classy, edgy, early aughts dramas that the HBO was doing, like The Wire, and like Six Feet Under, like just relationship wise.

It was a bit of a throwback just in terms of like nuance and complexity that a lot of those shows had that I feel like, I don't know, I have kind of been missing for a while and this show has a lot of that. Yeah, Peter Craig is like, he's such a great writer, but honestly, man, I mean, that dude was the nicest person I've ever met in this industry. Yeah.

He's just a nice, good man. And that was, I would do anything. You know when you know someone, I'll do anything you want me to do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another beautiful thing that happened, so when I got there, I haven't met Brian before. And I love rehearsals, right? I love to rehearse. I think rehearsals are so great. And then we rehearse, and then you go to the set,

and you just have fun, because you don't have the... The anxiety about like... With the other person, personally. So we were playing two guys, they were like very, very close. They were really... And I met the guy like on set with this costume on. That's so crazy. And then to shoot that very first scene of us in that van. And then we were walking to the set and I was like, okay, this is...

Okay, Brian, can you keep and I grabbed him and was like dude can we go to this green room for a second so we went to the green room I locked the door by the way if you're on a set and like there's so many people watching every move like if you go to the bathroom there's people with walkie-talkies outside the bathroom waiting for you to come out so you guys go and lock a door and people we walk in the green like, they're in the green room. They're just going in the green room. I don't know what's going on. They're in the green room.

And then I pop the door and we're like, just a second. And we sat in front of each other. And I grabbed his hands like this, like grabbed his hands, looked at him, I was like, my name is Wagner Moura.

I'm from Brazil. I have three kids. And I started to talk about myself. I'm scared. This is weird. And you know the beautiful thing about it? Just like this, he looked at me and he said, my name is Brian. I came from this place. And it was such a vulnerable moment that we shared.

And we started up with a connection because that's what I feel it really misses. I miss this. Yeah, we didn't have any other... You're going to do a scene with someone like, that's your girlfriend or something and have to touch the person. And listen, for me, this preparation,

it doesn't take anything away from the freshness of the moment. Because again, in a moment, it's another thing. It's something different, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure you were just so scared. Terrified. But doesn't that feel like if you're not scared, there's no point in doing it? There's no point.

I mean, but that was an actual level of... Yeah, but that's different. I was like... But that of... Yeah, but that's different. Of that. I was like... But that also... But you're right. You're right. That was, like I said, that was one of the reasons that I was like, I should do this. Yeah. You know? Go through this. Honestly, for me, now, at this point of my life, the experience of doing it and the things that you learn like this like I

can do things like this or people that you meet, relationships that you create. For me right now that's more important than the result. I can say this like with the bottom of my heart and of course I want everything that I do to be super successful and great and I love but the journey it is indeed the most important thing. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. Can I ask you a little bit about playing Pablo Escobar?

I know that you obviously cannot wait for the role and you look so different, but what really fascinates me was how, I mean, he's so notorious. So many people have an opinion of him. Finding humanity and sympathy within that character couldn't have always been easy. I mean, it must have taken some creativity on your part

to find moments like that. I researched a lot about him. With that one, I really took my time. I mean, I learned a language to play that character. I read everything that was written about him. I lived in Medellin. I was there, I was talking to people. So I could have a really clear understanding of the man that he was.

And he was an evil man, for sure, but he was a human being. And this is what we do, right? This is the... We see people as people, regardless of what we do, right? This is the mistake. We see people as people, regardless of what they do or who they are. No, I feel like, firmly believe. He was a family man, people,

he did a lot for his family. He did a lot for poor people in Medellin, built them houses and things. Might be like for personal interest because he wanted to be a politician too. But he did it. And many people there, many people there. There's an entire neighborhood in Medellin

called Bar Republico Bar. If you go there, if you say shit about Pablo, they might kill you. Because they gave the public air and their houses and their schools and the government did it. I mean, I saw similar themes, you know, when I watched Sofia Vergara do Griselda. She brought a lot of humanity to that part

and there were a lot of people that Griselda did help and their lives were made better by her but it's obviously a lot that she did that hurt people as well. I can't even imagine though, learning a new language and being able to create nuance within that language. Now that's a difficult thing. Until today, for me, it's really, really hard

to work in English, in Spanish, because when I say something in Portuguese, the words come filled with memory and emotion. It's not the dialect itself. It's not like being able to pronounce the words correctly so people wouldn't go like what? It's the meaning behind it. It's the meaning.

Yeah, that's what I mean. It's the relationship with it. It's hard. I mean, it. It's hard. I mean, it really baffles me. Have you done anything in other language? No. Yeah, it's an interesting exercise. It's an interesting thing to do.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Wagner tells me about the crazy carnival night that led to his 24 year long marriage and why one of his films was censored by his home country. Okay, be right back. Between traveling to record dinners on me, whether it's a sit down in LA or take out in Salt Lake City,

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. You know, Jesse, we're about the same age, and I've been thinking a lot about, dinners on me. I know for sure that I don't want to spend the rest of my life here in Los Angeles. Although I love the city, I love living here, my kids love it. But I know that it's not here for me. I don't know exactly what it is. It's not in Los Angeles for me either. Not for you.

Where are you originally from? I was raised in New Mexico, but I lived in New York for a while when I was doing theater before I came out here. And I was born in Montana. It's interesting, my mom passed away in November and she didn't get to travel a lot. I'm sorry, Jesse. Thank you, thank you. We just had a service for her a few weekends ago and she wanted her remains divided up

between me and my siblings so we each have a third of her in her homes. And I'm going to London soon to do this play and then after that I'm going to New York to do Shakespeare in the Park and you know when my mom was still around and I was asking her about her wishes for you know What what do you want after you pass away like what kind of service do you want? She said take me traveling take me traveling so I just This isn't too like I love this. Take me traveling, it's so great. So I got, her urn came in the mail a few days ago and I was transferring her ashes into the urn

and I thought, okay, well I need like a little to go size portion so I could take, I'm gonna take her to London and I'm gonna leave her, a little bit of her in London. I'm gonna take her to New York, I'm gonna leave a little bit of, So you're gonna leave her like, Yeah, I'm gonna like sprinkle her around the world.

You're gonna leave her around the world, that's genius, man. And so, but I couldn't find a container. I thought I had these old spice containers, like glass spice containers with screw tops. Couldn't find them, I don't know where they are. So I'm looking through the cabinets, trying to find something to put her in.

And everything's either too big or way too small, or looks like it's gonna break. Anyway, I end up dumping out a bottle of sprinkles that she put on a cupcake, like jimmies, you know what I'm talking about? Like those rainbow colored jimmies. So I'd dump out the jimmies and I'd transfer some of my mom's ashes into it.

And I think there's even a few jimmies that are stuck on the bottom. It's like, I'm just gonna leave them in there. I love this so much. And I feel like my mom would be just laughing at this situation, like me emptying out my cupcake drawer to like figure out how to transport her to to London. That's so nice. But I'm gonna I'm gonna find a little places and like just leave her around. She's like she didn't get to travel a lot. She didn't have a passport. She didn't get to travel

a lot? No, no. She went she went to... Isn't this beautiful? I love this, I love this for her. This is beautiful. I've never heard of it. You know what, it's interesting, because people usually like, oh, this is the place where this person loved. The sea or the countryside. Oh, that's moving.

She said, I wanna travel. I wanna travel, and she knows I've traveled so much, and she's like, just take me around with you. I think this is beautiful. Thank you. But when you're talking about, like, where I want to die, it's funny because I've been thinking about that myself a lot, because I had that conversation with my mother.

Did she live here? She lived here. She lived 10 minutes away from me here, yeah. I moved her here from Albuquerque. To LA. To LA, yeah. So how long have you been living here? Um, oh, God, it's probably been about 18 or 19 years now. So this is...

Yeah, it's home. I've lived here longer than I've lived anywhere else I think now at this point. Although I still feel strangely like a visitor, which is why I feel like this is not where I would want to be if I died. I still don't feel an emotional connection to it. My family's here, I started my family here, my kids are here, obviously, my in-laws are all here. But yeah, it doesn't feel like this is emotionally where I want to be. Same, same thing for me.

And I don't know exactly which place would be. Sometimes I don't know. It could be Brazil? It could be Brazil, it could be my hometown, Salvador. Could be Rio, where I lived for 18 years. But could be also, man, I did this trip like two months ago in Tuscany. And I'm like, what's the, remember that film?

What's the film? It's like, what's the, remember that film? What's the film? It's like, what's the actress? Eat, Pray, Love. No, A House in Tuscany. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm talking about? I don't know if that's the name I already talked about. Who's that actress?

It's a famous actress, is it Diane Lane? Diane Lane. Diane Lane. Yeah. Diane Lane. Right. She's an American. She goes to Tuscany, she's like, I think I'm gonna stay here. Yeah, yeah. And she meets like this handsome Italian guy.

Yeah, yeah. And that was what I felt. So beautiful, so cultured, and way less expensive than living in this crazy city. But don't get me wrong, I love living in LA. I like LA. My kids love LA. But I don't wanna die in LA. Have you had this conversation with your wife?

Oh yeah, no. Does she wanna go where you go? Oh yeah, we're LA. Have you had this conversation with your wife? Oh yeah, no. Does she want to go where you go? Oh yeah, we're together. Are you guys going somewhere else? No, no, no. We are totally in the same page. I know you met your wife in school, but how early into that process?

Was it like day one of school? No, no, no, no. I met her at college, right? We both studied journalism. And I always thought she was like the most beautiful girl. But I had a girlfriend, she had a boyfriend, you know, real friends. You know, we were hanging out with her. Our friends are our best friends still today.

Journalists. But then, man, there's something called Carnival. I know about carnival yeah the carnival is the most incredible party in the world especially in my hometown in Salvador because you see people that are in your daily lives like the guy like that works in the bank that you know these people this guy the restaurant guy and you have this when you see them in in Carnival somebody else you know you just and it's very sexy and everybody's like really into having fun it's interesting because it's a it's supposed to be a Christian party but it's very... When I saw her in Carnival and we look at each other...

Can you name Sandra? Sandra's her name? Yeah. She was a photographer, she was working there and I was doing this play in Rio. I was living in Rio. This Carnival was in Salvador and I was like, hey, we spend the whole carnival together. I was like, I have to go back to Rio because I'm working on this play. Would you come with me? She's like, yeah. She came with me. This is how all romance works in Europe.

She came with me, she left her job, and we started living together. We didn't know each other. We were sort of like, knowing each other, living together. That was 24 years ago. Yeah, that's incredible. I'll be married 12 years this July.

Married 12 years together, 15. Congrats. Yeah, I love it. I love being married. I love being a dad. You too. I'm a cancer, right? Being at home, the five of us traveling together. And this is the thing,

this dynamic might end soon, you know? By 18 years old, he will start traveling with his friends and going as he should. So when I see those four-year-olds, two-year-olds, I go like, just run him. I know. Listen, if you want to hug a two year old or a four year old, just come over anytime. Man, it's, I, yeah, I will. Truly.

You know, when you're talking about how you like to prepare and just, you know, rehearsals and how that's such a sacred part of your process. I mean, it occurred to me as I was remembering, you know, you're a journalist first. Like, I can only imagine that that impulse to dive deep and to sort of excavate information as you would, as a journalist, have to do,

must come into play in your preparation for characters. The fact that I studied journalism was very important for me. I didn't graduate as an actor, right? I don't have a proper education as an actor. My education as an actor was like doing things. Going to stage and doing plays. Because I was already working as an actor

when I was studying journalism. I studied when I was 15. And the journalism itself, like always being connected to what's going on, to real reading. That's why I think this approach, this political approach that I have with what I do, comes a little bit from there, I think, you know. Because I think, Jesse, that everything is political. Comedies are, you know, like, it thinks that you go like, oh, this is a silly com-

It is political for me. You know, because if it moves someone individually, somehow, of the person is like, oh, I had a great night, I love theater. Just the fact that someone goes like, I love art, I love theater, This is political. That's the best kind. That's the best kind too.

I think moving people through art is the best way to do it because sometimes it happens, your heart's being changed, but it doesn't feel like medicine. It doesn't feel like I'm learning a lesson here. I mean, when those changes happen, I think that's beautiful. Was it a film that you directed, Censored, in Brazil? Oh yeah, I directed, oh man, yeah. What was that's beautiful. Was a film that you directed censored in Brazil?

Oh yeah, I directed, oh man, yeah. What was that again? Marighella. That film was, you know that we were under a fascist government for four years, right? I know a little bit about that history, yeah. Guy called Bolsonaro. Brazil was under a very heavy dictatorship from 64 to 85.

I was born during the dictatorship in 76. And it was horrible. Have you seen this Brazilian film that won the international film, the Oscars now? It's called I'm Still Here. Oh, I have seen it, yeah. It's beautiful, it's about that too. But my film is about the leader of the armed resistance

against the dictatorship. And this president, this former president that we had, he praised the dictatorship. He thought that the dictatorship was a good thing for the country. So, we shot the film in 2017, and the film was released in competition in Berlin in 2019, and we could only release the film in Brazil in 2021,

almost 2022, because it openly censored the film. And we received death threats, like it was hardcore shit. But it was a fight that I was very happy to fight. But I said a lot, I spoke a lot, I exposed myself a lot. And I don't regret that for a second. It was a very tough fight because it was the entire government against one film. But a lot of people embraced us, you know, everybody, all the progressive people in Brazil.

Because, you know, it's... Unfortunately, we live in a very polarized situation, as you can see in Civil War, which is unfortunate. But it was really important for me to feel embraced by people that go like, oh, this film is important. We wanna know about this guy back then. Right, well, and sometimes when those things are met with resistance, it just increases the interest in what it is is, like why is this thing, you know, they're trying to do something but it's actually doing the opposite. It's actually shining more light on it.

So sure. The film was a huge success in Brazil, internationally. It was amazing. Yeah. They sort of did me a favor, but it was tough. Yeah. There were some premieres that we had to have metal detectors on the door because these people are crazy because these guys Like Trump and Bolsonaro they empower their followers their worst in the worst instant So you have to be Aware Justin my husband and I produced we've produced a few films with David Saint He's a sort of credible documentary filmmaker and I'm the one that we came on board with David Saint, who's this incredible documentary filmmaker.

And the one that we came on board with was, it's a film called Welcome to Chechnya. Streams on HBO, but it's about the gay purge in Chechnya. And the people who went in to film this, they had to do it very guerrilla style with secret cameras in their glasses and iPhone being hidden. And it's crazy how terrifying it was

just to even make the film. And also terrifying to watch it, but just knowing that filmmakers actually had to do this. I was so proud to be a part of that film. The reason Justin and I came on is because they had to implement a technical aspect to the movie. They basically had to deep fake the faces of all of the lead players

so that their faces wouldn't be recognized because it was so dangerous for them to be exposed. They had to protect them. So they had to protect them, but at the same time, they didn't want to just blur out their faces because they wanted the emotion of these stories. And the voices?

And the voices were changed a little bit as well. But so they had these actors that came in and basically did face replacement on these lead characters of the film. So yeah, which is wild because it's like you can see it's a little glitchy like it's sometimes like they'll turn a certain way and it looks like they're wearing a weird mask but you could still see the emotion and they just borrowed other people's faces. Oh wait, but the actors, so the actors reproduce the interviews?

Like the actors- No, the actors basically, I don't know the technology about how they do this, but it was basically, you know, deep fake is such a dangerous thing, it can be used in so many horrible ways. This was like, probably one of the first times it's been used in a wonderful way. But basically, their images were captured, they went into a studio and did all the dots on their

face or whatever you have to do to capture these images and did full body scans of these actors, and then they were able to directly replace the actor's physicality on top of the subjects of the film. And so there was no reenactment. The actors never spoke any lines. It was the people who, it was our subjects speaking the lines, but they were hidden in a, basically a body cast of it, of a random actor. That's so cool. Isn't that fascinating?

That's fascinating. Anyway, so that costs money, and so Justin and I were like, we want to. But that's expensive, right? It's very expensive. That's when they were raising more money, and Justin and I hopped on board saying, we have to make sure this film gets made,

and it gets made in this way. It's not an easy watch, but like I said, it plays out like a thriller in a lot of ways. That's my thing, Jesse. Yeah, I know. Yeah, no, I figured you would like it. Yeah, it's just my kind of thing, Jesse. I know. I figured you would like it. That's just my kind of thing. I mean, are there things that you watch or you enjoy on TV that are just purely candy?

I'm just looking at your resume. You know what I love? What do you love? Adventure Time. What is that? It's a cartoon. Have you seen this? No! It's brilliant.

Okay. Adventure Time is brilliant. It's this little boy and a dog, and the dog is sort of elastic, and they live in this fantasy world, and it's just their adventures. But it's so poetic and so philosophical. My kids love it too. Adventure time, go Google it. Please, check it out.

Okay, I thought you were gonna say something like The Bachelor. Oh, boy, let me see. So even your candy TV has like, it's poetic and it's beautiful. Oh, but it's like, oh, I love telenovelas. Yeah, okay. So popular.

That's what you started doing. Yeah, I did two of them, and I loved it, and I learned a lot by doing them. And I love, and it's just the best way to decompress is to see those evil characters saying evil things and really wanting to fuck up the lives of other people. I mean, it's hard work. It's hard work.

Are you kidding me? You're kidding me. If you're a main character in a telenovela, you get in the studio at 9am, and you leave at 6pm, and you know in Brazil, in Mexico they use those... Earwigs, yeah. In Brazil, people really memorize our lines.

Wow. Which is insane. I'm talking about 30 scenes per day, something like that. Yeah. It's crazy. But it's a very... You get like very... We're talking about 30 scenes per day, something like that. Yeah. You know? It's crazy. But it's a very, you get like very savvy. Yeah, I'm sure it keeps you so sharp. Yeah, sharp.

You're like, okay, let's do it. I don't hear in the States, like so many of our most beloved actors did soap operas, like Gillian Moore, for example, started soap operas. Are there like Brazilian actors who are like super big now that have come out of that world? Oh dude, no. In Brazil, the star system in Brazil is soap opera actors. Oh yeah, okay. Our Hollywood is soap opera. It's like soccer. You know, like it's like part of the culture.

And the greatest Brazilian actors work on soap operas. Of course, they're always like the indie cool actors that just do loads of films and things. But I was to the episode with Giacopolo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you've never seen The Godfather? Is that terrible? Okay, let's talk about that just to...

I know, yeah, let's talk about it. No, no, no, I mean, I'm not judging you at all. No, but it's one of those... But like, what's the reason? What's like, like, is it too violent? No, no, I'm almost 50 years old and the fact that I haven't seen it yet, I'm ashamed. And I don't know why I won't just like shut myself away

in a room and like watch all three parts. It feels overwhelming now. I feel like, oh God. And also, I've built it up so much in my head. I'm like, what if it's not as good as I need it to be? And I know it's gonna be as great as I need it to be. And the thing is, why it's been on my mind so much recently is several of my other friends

who are about the same age as me have all recently watched The Godfather for the first time and separately have said to me, you know when I just watched The Godfather for the first time and separately have said to me like you know what I just watched The Godfather and it is one of the most incredible things I cannot believe it's taking me this long to watch it and so now I just I have to watch it. You have to watch it? I know I know I know and there's so many things I have seen multiple times that you'd be like are you kidding me and yet I've never seen The Godfather. Okay. I know and there's others there's other classic films that

I haven't seen but there's stuff that I've seen that people have never seen them like how could that you have never seen that? Yeah that's okay I mean but but The Godfather is a big one. But I was curious because it's like the other part of the greatest American movie of all times. Also I I think because there's three of them, I'm like, oh, that's a commitment. Yeah, stick with the first one. Yeah, yeah. But the second, two one. You don't need to watch the third one.

No, OK, OK. The third one's like... But the first two ones are... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Powerful. You know, when you see De Niro and Pacino in their, my son, my oldest son works at the Aero Theater

here in Montana. Oh nice. And he was like, yesterday he was like, Dad, all Pacino is here. It was like they were screening Dog Day afternoon and he freaked out. He was like, Dad. Oh that's incredible.

My God, he bought a popcorn, but my friend sell it to him i will try to oh my god i did um the merch stuff in this with al Pacino oh man and shakespeare the bar oh come on he played Shylock and he it was i spent the whole summer with him oh come on i obviously could not have been more intimidated when i first walked into that rehearsal room been more intimidated when I first walked into that rehearsal room. But let me tell you what, he is the coolest, nicest. He is just a, he's a student still. He loved rehearsal. We did it. We did the Merchant of Venice in rep with Winner's Tale. He wasn't in Winner's Tale. So basically every two days he had a few days off from rehearsal and he did not want to be away from rehearsal.

So they booked him a little tiny room next to the main rehearsal room so that he could just run lines on days when he wasn't called in, because I rehearsed in the play he wasn't in. He just had to be a part of the process. He enjoys the work. He enjoys the work. And I remember one day I was-

It doesn't take it for granted. No, and he's so inspiring. In fact, I called him because I wanted to come as a guest on the show and he just released his autobiography. I was like, come on the show and we'll talk about it. Does he know you have never seen the Godfather? He does now.

No, I was of course afraid to tell him. By the next time I see Al, I will have seen the Godfather. I promise you. But I do remember one day in rehearsal for the Merchant of Venice, we were having, it was a scene with just me and him, I played the clown in Merchant of Venice, which is basically like an anti-Semitic clown. You know, hilarious back then, not so funny today. That's some racist play. Very racist play.

And we were having, I don't remember the guy's name, Gabbo, Lancelot Gabbo is his name, is my character. And we were having trouble with the scene and so we were brought into another rehearsal room to like kind of figure some stuff out. And Al was like, let's just improvise, let's just improvise the scene. And so I started improvising Shakespeare

with Al Pacino. Oh, come on. And he was like, oh, I'm just coming home from the office. Oh, come on. Like that sort of stuff. And I was like, this is wild. Oh, come on, Jesse. It was a dream.

You were improvising Shakespeare with Al Pacino? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's amazing, bro. He is a really cool guy. That's amazing. I mean, that will go down as one of the greatest experiences of my entire life.

And on theater, on stage. I know. That's beautiful. That's so. But yeah, I haven't seen the Godfather yet. Alright, yeah. Okay, figure that out. Listen, if I see you in London, if you come to London, see my play. I'll see you in London. I will make sure I've seen the Godfather. Dude, I'll see you in London. I'm gonna reach out to you. Okay, please do. Because I'm Brazilian, I don't, it's no bullshit.

I reach out to people. I love it when people reach out to me. I'm gonna reach out to you and I'm gonna go like, I wanna watch you, I wanna see your play mid-June. You'll buy dinner, because right now dinner's on me. Oh yeah, I'll buy dinner next time, in London. Great, that's fine. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Milo and Olive in Santa Monica, California. Next week on Dinner's on Me, you know her from her

iconic roles in prestige TV series like Sharp Objects and Six Feet Under. It's Golden Globe winning actor and Academy Award nominee Patricia Clarkson. We'll get into her new film Lily where she plays real life activist Lily Ledbetter, a longtime Goodyear tire plant worker who fought back against pay discrimination. We'll get into why this role is so meaningful to her and so much more. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access

to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple podcasts to search your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode.

Hans-Dale Shi composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balanz Kalasny and Justin Makeda. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart.

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