Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2110: Rooker of the Year

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about Meg’s unlikely recovery in the contracts over/under draft, the Cubs signing Shota Imanaga, the trailblazing Rachel Balkovec moving from the dugout to the Marlins’ front office, and (18:37) whether the new horror film Night Swim is a baseball movie. Then (35:53) they talk to Oakland A’s All-Star Brent […]

Hello and welcome to episode 2110. Is that how we would say it, Ben? I think so. Anyway, yeah, 2110. I'm Meg Rowley. You're Ben Lindberg. We are a Fangraphs podcast presented by our Patreon supporters. Ben, how are you? We're only two episodes away from a famous Rush album. This is exciting. I'm also excited because we're going to be joined by a bona fide big leaguer on today's program, Brent Rooker of the Oakland A's, who really is just a joy. And I have sort of made fun of the frequent saying that someone is a better person than they are a big leaguer. You know, you hear that all the time, like a great baseball player, even better person. And I don't know how to quite quantify that. How do you quantify how good a person is relative to how good they are at baseball? time, like a great baseball player, even better person. And I don't know how to quite quantify

that. How do you quantify how good a person is relative to how good they are at baseball? Don't know whether that's true about Brent Rooker, but he is certainly a good baseball player and maybe an even better personality, quite an entertaining fellow online. And also it turns out on podcasts. So we've already talked to him and I can assure you all that it was fun. It will be fun for you when you get there. Yeah, it was a lovely time. He was generous with his time. And sometimes I wonder like if we need to prep people better that we can bob and weave a little bit in weird directions. But I love it when someone doesn't necessarily know that and then just rolls with it.

And I appreciated how much Brent did that. So yeah, I look forward to people listening to that combo. The name of the podcast should clue them in, right? That we're going to be a little all over the place and hopefully it'll all work out for the best in the end. But I have an update, first of all, on the Effectively Wild free agent contract over underdraft, because I mentioned on our last episode that it would be pretty big for you that Teoscar Hernandez ended up signing a one-year deal when MLB Trade Rumors

had predicted a four-year deal for him. And you took the under on that, which would be a windfall for you. And I guess the opposite of a windfall for him, although he did okay too for a one-year deal for him and you took the under on that, which would be a windfall for you. And I guess the opposite of a windfall for him, although he did okay too for a one-year deal. But I said, you know, if Shohei Otani hadn't already blown up your board, basically, because that whole saga, we've decided that it counts as the 700, not the present day value Yes. So that was a big blow to your hopes. And I thought that sort of ended things. It did too. But not necessarily.

You're right back in this thing. You were deep in the red after the Otani signing. But now you're back in black. Oh, no. Wow. Oh, excuse me. That's my best Brian Johnson. I don't know how he does it. Wow. Excuse me. That's my best Brian Johnson.

I don't know how he does it. I've lost my voice from saying three words in my Brian Johnson voice. My best Brian Johnson wasn't that great. But the point is, you're back in positive territory now because of Teoscar Hernandez, Jung-Hoo Lee. You took the over and he was way over. Way over. And then you took the under on Jack Flaherty as well, which was right. And so now you are at positive $3.5 million, even though Otani was a negative 172. So you're not far behind me.

I'm at plus 57 million. You're within striking distance. Now, I still have the under on Cody Bellinger on my board, which might open up some separation again. But this is a competition. This thing is not over. Where did we land on Yamamoto in that draft? Did either of us take Yamamoto? Neither of us took Yamamoto. Yeah.

I should have taken the over on Yamamoto. I guess so. I can't believe this, Ben. I'm really kind the over on Yamamoto. I guess so. I can't believe this, Ben. I'm really kind of flabbergasted, candidly. I still expect to lose, but for this to have been made a race, a contest again, is candidly shocking. Yes. Much more shocking than Otani's deal? No. But, you know, certainly a surprising thing. Yeah. And I'm glad that we get to have some stakes, you know, some rooting interests. Although I feel bad for the direction of our takes so often, you know. And so what am I rooting for?

Myself? You know, it doesn't really matter to me. So what am I rooting for? Myself? You know, it doesn't really matter to me. But like to these players, often because of how we've decided to go here, it might be the difference between, I don't know, a nice car and an even nicer car. Yeah. Or a whole fleet of nice cars.

But I don't want to deny them nice cars. I don't have anything against them generally. I don't think we really took any stinkers in this draft. So, I don't know what I root for, really. World peace and also, you know, wins in minor drafts that have decidedly low stakes, I guess. But I don't know. I'm conflicted. World peace is probably beyond our purview here on our baseball podcast. Yeah. But still some pricey players on the board. I mean, you took Blake Snell.

I took Cody Bellinger. So we might be waiting a while for a final count here, given how those free agencies are going. But we will see an incredible comeback in the making, or at least you've kept it competitive. And we still stayed true to our principles and our rules. We've abided by tradition with how we're handling Otani's contract and yet it remains riveting. So that's the best case outcome here. One player we did not draft, Shota Imanaga, who the Cubs have signed or at least are in the process of signing as we speak. In the process of signing.

Pending physical. Important caveat as always. Always. But if we had drafted him, I don't remember what MLB Trade Rumors predicted, but possibly under would have been the way to go with that, at least in terms of the guaranteed dollars. So this has been a source of some surprise, right? Because based on the reporting, it sounds like it's $53 million for years, which is just a little bit more than 13 per year. It's a little complicated.

There is a fifth-year team option. The Cubs have to decide after the 2025 and potentially 2026 seasons whether to exercise the option for 2028. And then if the Cubs decline the option at either point, Imanaga could opt out. There are also limited no trade rights. If the Cubs exercise either of the options, then that becomes a full no trade clause. Many moving parts. It could come up to as much as 80 million max, but the actual guaranteed dollars feel fairly low.

And I know John Heyman reported something about how he just really wanted to be a Cub and that there were other teams that made bigger offers, which is a refrain that we've been saying about the Dodgers this offseason. He said that some other team offered maybe double the guaranteed dollars. Who knows what the structure was of that? Maybe the ceiling was lower. But the point is, they got a good picture. Everyone's been waiting for the Cubs to do something. We noted that there was pressure on them to do something and that they still had time to, and now they have. And now I'm going to let you talk because my brief Brian Johnson foray is causing me to be hoarse at the end of this sentence. Yeah. Well, I'm happy to be a relief arm for you here, Ben. on a per inning basis, if I recall correctly, than Yamamoto did, which I was surprised by,

because, you know, apart from anything else, the top line velocity for Imanaga has been quite a bit lower than it has been for Yamamoto. Now, Zips anticipates based on its translations of his NPV performance that he will throw a good number of fewer innings, if I recall correctly, than Yamamoto was anticipated to. So some of it is the volume. But you know, like they're interesting to compare to one another because they are both sort of shorter of stature than your sort of typical MLB pitcher. And I think there's a lot of nonsense about short pitchers and sort of what they can do, particularly when you have like a high level pro track record to point

to, which you can for both of those guys. Imanaga has been a good NPP pitcher for five years now. So I think that he will find success. Bauman wrote about him for us. And, you know, I think one of the things that might make Cubs fans a little bit nervous is how fly ball prone he has been in his npb tenure um and you know he doesn't have like that really hard fastball um to just do the like ah screw it here to hit 98 just do it but like he's um his command and control kind of weaponizes his entire arsenal in a way that i think um will serve him well so i still think that chic Chicago has stuff to do. You know, like they still need a first baseman, for instance, I think they could use another sort of mid to top of the rotation starter. But I think that the good news for them, if they decide to go that way, is that like they

have room to do it. You know, we have their sort of luxury tax estimate. And let me see, does this include his number yet? No, not just yet. So because of the exactitude that Jason and John like to operate in, I don't think we have Imanaga's deal on here yet. But like they were sitting at $185 million, almost $186 million for their luxury tax estimate for next year. Even if you factor in something in like the $15 million AAV range for Managa, like they still have room to maneuver before they approach the first luxury tax threshold. And they're obviously south of that first threshold, the first one, Ben. So if they're willing to pay a little tax, which like, hey, you guys should be willing to pay a little tax. You're the Cubs.

You're the Wrigleyville residents. You're supposed to be a little bougie. So spend some money and go address your needs. I think that they have room to add here and to help maybe bring Cody Billinger back into the fold, address their need at first base, get another starter. But this is, I think, an exciting sort of first reel for you into the free agent market. And what better timing, Ben, could they have asked for? Because I'm given to understand that like their fan fest is this weekend. And boy, would they have gotten some feedback, I imagine, from the assembled Cubs faithful had they not done anything. And now, assuming, of course, that the physical goes well, they will have done something. And so there you go. Yeah.

Craig Council was a nice start, but you can't just trot out your manager at FanFest and say, please clap and expect people to applaud. I mean, they might applaud, but then what then what, you know, that's like, they want to yes. And that moment instead of being like, you know, so do you feel as if your voice has recovered? Did I fill in for you ably? Did you get what you needed out of that moment? Flag again, but I am ready to resume speaking. Okay. So yes, he's obviously five years older than Yamamoto. So, you know, that's one reason why there's a massive difference between their deals. And you can go back to episode 1298 when we had a full Imanaga scouting report from Eric Long and Hagen, if you're curious. But, you know, he doesn't throw nearly as hard as you mentioned. He's more of a low 90s guy, but he's also a lefty, which makes that more effective and more workable because of the unfamiliarity effect. I mean, he's, you know, throws like league average-ish for a lefty starter. He's not exactly a soft tosser.

And strong strikeout and walk profile, long consistent track record in Japan. So, profile, long, consistent track record in Japan. So even if he's just a mid-rotation guy, that's sort of a steal, right? If you're getting him at that AAV without committing long-term, I mean, maybe he really did want to be a Cub or maybe we'll find out more about this before the next time we talk. But yeah, that's a strong signing. And I imagine that it is maybe the first of multiple signings that the Cubs will try to finalize here. Yeah. And hopefully before their fan fest. Yeah, just get it all done. Yeah, just get it all done. Yeah. They're like, you know, they're like a college student with

a term paper, dude. It's like, oh, I got to get going on that. I saw the poster for their fan fest, which was like row upon row upon row of names, like a concert festival poster, you know, like bigger sizes and smaller sizes. Although I was surprised by some of the sizes. We were talking about this on Ringer Slack. It's like Carrie Wood was way down there. There was like a strong bias towards more recent players. So even if you're not as big a name, if you've been a Cub more recently, then you're way above like Ted Lilly. You got to get the microscope out to see Ted Lilly down there on the bottom line. I like Ted Lilly. You should have a bigger print there. Does that suggest to you, I mean, I don't want to impugn the Go Cubs Go contingent of

our listenership, but does that suggest to you like a lack of confidence in their fans from the Cubs? Like, are they like, we got to give them the guys that they know? Maybe, or maybe that would apply to any fan base, potentially, people, short memories. A couple other bits of news. So, one, people short memories couple other bits of news so one rachel balkovic got a new job yeah rich balkovic who has been a trailblazer in many jobs in the minor leagues for assorted teams is now the marlins new farm director and i was at first sort of surprised because she's kind of been climbing the ladder in minors, just kind of, you know, going from first to first. She was the first woman in affiliated ball to be a full-time strength and conditioning coach, and then the first woman to be a full-time hitting coach, and then the first woman to be a manager. And not that there are a long line of female farm

directors, but for once, not a first. I think Sarah Goodrum beat Rachel Balkovic to being the first here. And it's probably tough to keep being first over and over again. I imagine you would take some pride in that, but also you keep having expectations heaped upon you. It would obviously be pretty cool to have the first woman to be a major league manager, right? We still haven't had the first woman to be a major league manager, right? We still haven't had the first woman to be a major league umpire, although maybe we're getting closer. That's the most flummoxing one of all to me, by the way. Like, that's the most, they're all flummoxing.

And it's all, you know, we should be done with firsts by now. But that one in particular, I find just to be completely confusing because it's not – anyway, anyway, what are we – what's going on there? Umpires, get it together. You're right because you can't even say or make the case really that like, oh, well, it's helpful to have played at a high level or something. And so if there are fewer women historically who have played, then people will talk about, oh, it's the pipeline problem. Right. But, but for a umpire, I don't think you can make that case as persuasively, not that it's ever super persuasive, but, you know, selfishly, like, I think it would be cool to have that barrier be broken first female manager, but, you know, trying to put myself in her place, which obviously I

can't for many reasons, but it's a long way from low A to the majors. You know, even if you don't have the hurdle of there never having been a woman major league manager before, you have to put your time in, right, to climb that many rungs on the minor league ladder. And she has in the past expressed that she had some desire to be a GM because, you know, maybe you can affect the organization in a more sweeping way than you can even as a major league manager. And she's going to the one major league team that has had a female general manager. Although, of course, Kim Eng's exit recently was not handled super well, right? But, you know, if you're her, you're thinking, well, I could go from this to GM potentially, and it's even been done with this team. So, you know, obviously, like whatever she wants to do in her career, she should do. And it's great that her value has been recognized in all of these different positions. The other thing is that I mentioned recently I was going to talk to Jerry DePoto for an upcoming piece, and I did talk to Jerry DePoto for that piece. So what did Jerry DePoto do?

He talked to Ben Lindbergh briefly. Not super exciting. But he mentioned that he thinks that the farm director to GM pipeline, we might see even more of that just because of the emphasis on player development at the big league level these days. And the other thing is that being a farm director also doesn't take you out of consideration for being a manager if you want to keep your options open. Because we've seen that with A.J. Hinch. We've seen that with Gabe Kapler, who is now also in the Marlins front office as an AGM. There are people like Kapler or like Sam Folds. They've had the opportunity to do both and kind of choose which way they want to go. So I guess in theory, all routes remain

open to Rachel Balkovic, but she keeps climbing the ladder, whether it's the field staff ladder or the front office ladder. So that's nice to see. But yeah, it's very exciting. And even though it would be really cool to have the first female manager in the majors, it's not like Rachel Balkovic's pioneering powers are any less needed in the front office. It's great that Kim Ang got that job, but it's not exactly a mission accomplished situation for the sport. There are no more female GMs in the majors right now than there were before Kim Ang was hired. So now that barrier

needs to be rebroken. Maybe Balkovic can be the next female GM and be the one to hire the first female manager. Now, the last thing that I have to tell you about, because strangely, this is going to segue into our interview somehow, is a movie that I just had mostly the pleasure of seeing. So you were talking about Monarch Legacy of Monsters, starring former minor league baseball player Kurt Russell, and also Wyatt Russell, son of former minor league baseball player Kurt Russell. Well, I just saw a new movie starring Wyatt Russell, and I just read and blurbed a book by Noah Gattel called Baseball the Movie, which, as you might imagine, is about baseball movies. Maybe we'll talk to him when that book comes out in May.

And one thing he points out, which is probably not a super surprise, but we're in a slump for baseball movies lately. He says that the last one to get a major mainstream theatrical release is Everybody Wants Some, which is an excellent movie, also featured Wyatt Russell. But that's the last one, that was 2016. It's been a while. And no sooner did I finish that book, then I become familiar with a new movie, which was the number two movie in America this past weekend after Wonka. And it is very different from Wonka. It's Night Swim. So Night Swim is a Blumhouse production. It is at least ostensibly a horror movie.

And normally, that's not my bag. But it is also a baseball movie, at least in some large measure, it is a baseball movie. And so I had to see it just to discuss the baseball aspects of it. I wouldn't say that it's a good movie, but it's not a bad movie, or at least it's not quite as bad as its 25% Rotten Tomatoes rating and 42% audience score would lead you to believe. to see it, but kept me company because to quote multiple characters in Night Swim, love requires sacrifice. And when I see a horror movie, I require company because I'm a coward. So we actually both enjoyed it. She's been sort of raving about Night Swim against all odds. Now, is it a baseball movie? That is always the question here. Just to set up the premise here, Wyatt Russell plays a former baseball player, a former major leaguer, and he actually has MS, which has ended his career, but he hasn't quite given up on making it back to the big leagues. And so he and his wife, they move into this new house in the suburbs with a pool. And as it turns out, the pool is haunted. It is a demonic pool, but not entirely. The thing with the pool is that the pool giveth and the pool taketh away. So it helps some people, but it

hurts other people. And I won't spoil the entirety of Night Swim here. Not that knowing what's going to happen would affect your enjoyment all that much, probably. But, you know, the question becomes, like, can he give up on his baseball career? Can he let it go? Right. It's maybe less of a baseball movie, you know, to the extent that it's not just a movie about a haunted pool. It's maybe a movie about baseball movie, you know, to the extent that it's not just a movie about a haunted pool. It's maybe a movie about disability and balancing your career and your family life and traditional gender roles and parenting and what you give up in relationships and that sort of thing. And it's not that scary, fortunately. At least it wasn't to me.

Can I ask a question? Yes. Is it gross? Not especially. Okay. No. fortunately at least it wasn't to me i mean can i ask a question yes gross not especially okay no because that tends to be a bigger issue for me than like scary i can deal with scary i don't like gross you know yeah it's not super gross not super gory it's you know more of uh like shadowy figures and jump scares sort of thing. But not really that scary. I mean, swimming pools, I guess, can be scary in real life. They can kill you. But also the horror is localized. Like if you don't have a pool and I don't, I live in Manhattan, there's nothing to be scared of, you know, whereas if I'm watching a other horror movie, I might be like looking over my shoulder or I expect to see something in the mirror or, you know, you'd think that like little children wouldn't be scary now that I have one, but they still are in horror movies somehow.

But it's like if I'm not around a pool, then I'm not really that scared by the premise of Night Swim, fortunately. However, is it a baseball movie? I think it has a strong claim to the title, but it really comes down to your definition. And by the Sam Miller, somewhat tongue-in-cheek definition where any movie that has any semblance of baseball, even alludes to baseball, is a baseball movie, well, then it's a baseball movie many times over. But by a more rigorous definition, I don't know. It's like the eternal argument over whether movies like Die Hard and Home Alone are Christmas movies, which I find to be tedious. I find that to be one of the least productive debates, this side of arguing over what valuable means when it's MVP season. Like, you know, yes, some people have argued that if your team didn't make the playoffs, how valuable could you have been? It's like the Branch Rickey, Ralph Kiner quote, we finish last with you, we can finish last without you. There's some truth to that, but obviously there are other ways to be valuable. Similarly, with Christmas

movies, it's just people arguing past each other because they're applying slightly different definitions, right? Like the truth is always, yes, it's a Christmas movie in some ways. Sure. You just have different bars to clear, different standards. So obviously if a movie takes place at Christmastime and prominently features Christmas iconography, it's a Christmas movie in some respects. It's more of a Christmas movie than most movies. But I mean, Die Hard with a Vengeance doesn't take place at Christmas. It's still a Die Hard movie, right? So there are Home Alone movies that aren't set during the holidays, maybe not good ones, but they exist. But there isn't a sequel to, say, the Santa Claus that has

nothing to do with Christmas. That would be weird. So to me, it's like, how central is the Christmas setting to it, right? Is it about Christmas? Could you make the movie without Christmas? And I think that's roughly where I am with baseball movies, not just is there baseball in it, but is it about baseball? Could you make this movie without baseball and have it still be compelling? And I think you could make Night Swim without baseball, right? This could be instead of a former baseball player, it could be some other sort of profession, right? But there is a lot of baseball, like on-field action, allusions to his career.

He's a former brewer. Like you see highlights of his big league career. He has a memorabilia room. The family has all sorts of baseball sayings. It's almost strange how much of a baseball movie it is, but it doesn't quite satisfy the condition of like, could they make a movie about Haunted Pool that had nothing to do with baseball? Yeah, they probably could, but I'm glad they didn't because I enjoyed it more. I have so many questions. The first of which is,

do you know how many movies are in the santa claus franchise bed it's at least a trilogy right i just learned there are three and a show three movies and a show this is it i am sorry but this is a franchise that began with the premise of what if it didn't bother you that an old man who is santa is dead in your yard and you have taken his pants yeah like what is what is this movie why are there so many of them do we need this i don't think we need this much tim allen so that's that's one thing to really be bothered by although you know i was why i was happy that for a while there david krumholz was able to get work like that's true because like you know we need more krumholz in our life and

having said that my second thing is it's a little surprising that they didn't have him be like a hockey guy because wyatt russell played like minor league hockey true yeah so why isn't he a hockey guy also why is the pool the thing that is imbuing this power? Like, is there a creature that lives in the pool? Is it actually the pool? Well, that would be to spoil Night Swim, which I don't want to do. I find myself very confused by why the pool is the site of all of this. There has to be some sort of creature.

Also, when you were a little kid, did you get told that if you sit on the sucky filter thing at the bottom of the pool that it would rip your guts out? Because I got told that. I don't know if I was told that. And I believed it. I have been disturbed. One of the reasons my wife was reluctant to watch the movie is because she has some small pool phobia. Yeah. Not debilitating pool phobia.

But I've experienced that, too. There was a swimming pool at a hotel I used to stay at in Vancouver that had orcas like painted on the bottom of the pool. And it sort of scared me, you know, it was like, oh, it seems a little too real. Right. And so, you know, you're in water. I mean, it's an unfamiliar environment. You can't survive that long under there. All sorts of things can happen even if it's not haunted. it survived that long under there. All sorts of things can happen even if it's not haunted. So I get it. And yet it is sort of silly ultimately. And if anything, it could lean more into the silliness of the haunted pool premise. Perhaps it should have and could have. But I think it's still fairly nonsensical and silly in a mostly self-conscious way.

Okay. in a mostly self-conscious way. But one reason it was called to my attention, there was a semi-viral baseball subreddit post that was prompted by the movie. Someone saw it and then posted on r slash baseball the provocative title, The New Movie Night Swim Violates the CBA. And I'm all for an off-season post

that goes way too deep into the minutiae of baseball media. I mean, that's one of our beats here on Effectively Wild. So I appreciated the effort. But the basis of this allegation was essentially at the beginning of the movie, Wyatt Russell's character, Kurt Russell, he's in the battered bastards of baseball, right? That was the team he was on. He was forced to go into acting because his career, his baseball career was ended by injury. Maybe it would have ended anyway, but you know, true to life, this character could have gone into acting instead, but no. But the contention here is that it misrepresents the medical coverage that is available to members of the Major League Baseball Players Association. Because it's not like a core plot point, but at the beginning, it's mentioned that the player's wife has just gotten coverage. Like, he's dependent on his wife's insurance. And it struck this poster as strange because, hey, this guy's been in the big leagues, right?

And they went through all the evidence to try to determine how long they were in the big leagues. It's kind of vague. He came up quite a while before the present day, it seems like, but it's not totally clear how good he was or how much major league service time he has. But the contention of the post is basically that you get fully vested in the medical coverage after 10 years of service time he has. But the contention of the post is basically that you get fully vested

in the medical coverage after 10 years of service time. And so this poster went way deep to try to figure out whether this player had 10 years of service time. And I'm here to tell you that that's not quite accurate. I've done some reporting on this. I have talked to players association sources. on this. I have talked to players association sources. I've talked to former players and gotten their thoughts on Night Swim. None of them had actually seen Night Swim, but the facts of Night Swim. How it works though with the medical coverage, you are eligible to be covered by the MLBPA plan after one day in the big leagues, right? So as soon as you make your debut, you can be on that plan. However, that doesn't last forever. There's a misconception that you just get that one day and you're covered

for life. No, I was told that the major league medical insurance is given to players with one day of service from that day until opening day of the next season, but not beyond that. And the 10 years of service, which is a big deal for MLB players, but that actually has nothing to do with the medical coverage. That's for your fully vested pension plan. There is one way service time comes into play, and that's at the four-year mark. What I was told matches up well with something Trevor May said on a video last year. So I'm just going to play a quick clip of him explaining it. Four years in the major leagues. Once you've reached that four-year threshold,

you can officially opt in Major League Baseball's medical insurance, which as you can imagine, is very good. Once you're retired, you get to continuously be in the same medical program. It's like if you left your corporate company and they just let you stay on their medical as long as you paid the premium. So yeah, subsidized continuing coverage after four years. It doesn't matter whether he had 10 years or not. Four years is actually the milestone when it comes to the MLBPA medical coverage. Just to clarify that very important point, you know, I don't want to impugn the accuracy of Night Swim, the haunted pool movie. So this may actually strengthen the poster's contention because this guy would need to have had even less service time to have the option of coverage. Maybe he dropped the plan at some point. Maybe it didn't cover his whole family.

I would have to watch the movie more closely to scour it for details about how good this guy was because you can fleetingly see some trophies or plaques. But it is sort of a strange choice to have him be seemingly a somewhat notable big leaguer and also have him worried about medical coverage. I don't know that the movie definitely violates the CBA, but the pool part definitely violates the laws of nature. So there's a lot of baseball in it. You know, a bat plays a pivotal role. There are a lot of allusions to other horror movies like Id and Get Out and The Shining, but also other baseball movies like Field of Dreams and The Natural. The player is named Ray. So every time his wife calls him Ray, I flashback to Field

of Dreams. He's like a former brewer's third baseman. And also there's a scene where he hits a ball and he hits it into the lights like the natural which i just knew was going to happen but as my colleague miles surrey wrote at the ringer in his review for some reason this movie loves baseball almost as much as it loves pools so or maybe it hates pools i don't know but you know maybe maybe we need to talk to people involved in the production of the pool movie to just figure out, like, why so much baseball, you know? Not just the pool movie, the haunted pool movie. Yeah.

So if you ever see it someday, perhaps we will have additional coverage of Night Swim. But I'd give it a qualified recommendation. And beggars can't be choosers when it comes to baseball media and baseball movies these days, you know? So I'm hoping that maybe this is a stepping stone. I don't know that we're ever going to get back to peak baseball movie post the natural where for a solid decade there, there were like multiple good baseball movies a year, but maybe this is the start of something, you know, because Night Swim, it did well at the box office. I don't know if that's because of the baseball element, but it certainly can't have hurt.

the box office. I don't know if that's because of the baseball element, but it certainly can't have hurt. Yeah. I'm just still flummoxed that there's both a film franchise and a series of the Santa Claus. How does this idea sustain that? I don't understand. I can't say I've seen much of the Santa Claus franchise, the canon, but yes, there's quite a lot of it. I think my favorite line from Night Swim, delivered in sort of a sinister way, is, you're supposed to say polo. I'll just leave it to the listener's imagination. I don't have to see this stupid polo movie. Yes, I think you should. All right, let's take a quick break and we will be

back with the Oakland A's Brent Rooker, whom we will speak to about night swim, but also mostly about his baseball career and his taste in breakfast food and many other baseball and non-baseball subjects. Basic biographical details. Brett Rooker, 29 years old, Tennessee native, 6'4", right-handed hitter, outfielder DH. 2023 was his fourth season in the majors, but first full season in the majors. He hit.246,.329,.488 with 30 bombs.

He's just a grip it and rip it, high launch angle, high strikeout rate, high barrel rate kind of guy. And last year, it worked well, 127 WRC+. So we'll be back with Brent after a snippet of the trailer for Night Swim. It needs a little work, but I don't think it's going to last long at this price. There's a pool. I always wanted a pool.

Is this everything? We'll grow into it. Y'all ready? Well, we're joined now by an all-star on the field and online. A man who vanquished Shohei Ohtani in at least a single-plate appearance and whose hard-hit rate is as high as his heart rate on stage with Zach Bryan. Brent Rooker of the Oakland A's. Welcome, Brent.

Thank you guys for having me. I appreciate it. I'm excited. Well, apologies if this is too personal or prying, but seeing as we're talking to noted breakfast fan Brent Rooker, I feel like it's kind of incumbent upon me to ask what you ate this morning. What did I eat? This morning was pretty simple. It was scrambled

eggs and some cinnamon toast crunch. Okay. The classics. I had leftover Chinese food, which trumps most other breakfast foods in my mind. I don't know how you feel about the leftover foods, the reheated food rankings. I eat a ton of leftovers and I am definitely not opposed to eating non-traditional breakfast foods for breakfast. So I like that move. became Big Cat. I feel like we need to pass down the nickname of a former A's DH, Billy Butler, to you, Brent Country Breakfast Rooker. How does that suit you? Because in Butler's case, it kind of referred to his build, maybe. But in your case, it could combine your love of both breakfast and country music. It seems perfect to me. Yeah, I don't hate it. And I like it. I mean, I love some places do good country fried steak or country fried

chicken as part of breakfast dishes, too. So it works. It works right there as well. So you got kind of multiple meanings. And I think it works on a few levels. We'll get it added to baseball reference one of these days. I'm sure that the just to stick on the food theme for a moment, because why not? This is the offseason.

I mean, I'm sure the primary difference between your morning routine while you're in season versus off might have to do with being on the road versus being at home. But do you find yourself indulging in breakfast foods during the off season that you might eschew during the regular season? I'd say not really. I'd say honestly, during the off season, breakfast is even a little bit healthier. And it's definitely more boring just because I go work out in the morning. So it's just kind of like I'm eating right before I go to the gym or go do whatever I'm going to do that day. My breakfast during the off season is eating more for practicality and eating more for, you know,

just kind of making sure that my workout is as good as possible, more so than actual taste or adventurousness or whatever else you want to call it. Here's a weird one for you. I just told Meg, she doesn't know this yet because we're recording the interview before the intro. But Meg, by now you will know that I have just described to her a new movie that's partly about baseball called Night Swim. It's a horror movie featuring a former baseball player. And the hook is that he moves into a house with a haunted pool. Okay. So, I don't know if you have a pool, Brent, but let's imagine that you do. And in this hypothetical, let's say it's later in your career, maybe you've suffered some sort of career-threatening injury,

career, maybe you've suffered some sort of career-threatening injury, and this pool is cursed but also blessed. It can restore your health, but it demands a price, some sort of sacrifice. And so your family is endangered to some extent, potentially your pets, because of this pool, but the pool can cure you. It can get you back to the big leagues. I swear that this is the actual premise of this pretty popular movie right now. If that were to happen, do you think you would be able to move on and let go of your baseball career and put your family first? Or do you think it will be difficult for you to move on to that next phase of your life? Will you be clinging to baseball whenever it is finally torn away from you? Wow. I've, uh, I've seen this, the previous, this movie I had, I mean, I just, uh, I knew about

the pool killing or attempting to kill the people. I don't know whatever it was. I had no idea about the, the deeper premise or anything like that. Um, or any of the details that you just shared. Are you more or less likely to see the movie now i think more okay i'm a little more intrigued than i was i'm typically not a horror movie guy but i mean anything with a plot that interesting seems like i might be able to give it a shot but no to answer your question i think given those circumstances i think i'd be able to move on pretty easily okay i love baseball anything like that um i hope to once my playing days over, I hope to stay in the game in some form or fashion or in some capacity.

What that is is yet to be seen, obviously, but I think given the haunted pool, killing my family or killing my pets circumstance, I think I'd be able to move on fairly quickly, I like to believe. Yeah, the same can't be said about the protagonist of Night Swim. Maybe unsurprisingly,

because it wouldn't be much of a movie if he could just easily let go. That would kind of be the end of it. But thank you for rolling with that question so easily and not just ending the interview there. Meg, do you have any more normal questions for Brent? Gosh, I do, but I'm trying to think of a clever segue. Gosh, I do, but I'm trying to think of a clever segue. I guess given your exposure to our friends at Cespedes Family Barbecue, that might not be the weirdest question you've ever been asked in an interview, but I suspect that it might rank.

Let's give this a try for a transition. I mean, you mentioned that after your playing career, which hopefully will last for a good long while here, but after it's over that you would like to stay in the game. And I think that probably won't come to much of a surprise to the people who follow you on Twitter, because in addition to being willing to talk about all manner of things, both food and music related, it's obvious that you are steeped in analytics as a way of understanding the game generally and your own performance in it. And so I wonder if you can talk about some of the metrics and ideas that you have used to sort of evaluate your own

performance and maybe make changes when things don't feel like they're working for you. Yeah, for sure. I think there's so much value in what are commonly referred to as advanced analytics or whatever you want to call it. Um, in terms of all the, all the stat cast metrics, all the baseball savant stuff, whether it's hard hit rate,

barrel rate, sweet spot percentage, kind of whatever you want to look at there. I think just as players, those things allow us, or at least allow me, I know some guys, you know,

everybody does their own thing and everybody has their different opinions on it and everybody every player has what works best for them but for me there are certain numbers that you know stat gas gets or or the more advanced analytical things that allow me to break down how i'm performing they let me know if i'm doing the things that i need to do to have success um you know my self-awareness and my knowledge of who I am as a player allows me to be able to pick and choose the numbers that I need to, to be able to tell me if I'm doing what I need to do to have success with my profile. I do some things really well, I do some things not as well. And if my ultimate goal as a player and what's going to allow me to have success and stick around is to do the things that I do well, well as i possibly can right um there's always a side of you trying

to minimize your weaknesses or trying to improve upon your weaknesses but i think the kind of the higher in the game that you get and the deeper understanding of of what makes different players good um you have i think you start to see more of everybody does a few things really, really well. And maximizing those already innate natural abilities is kind of what allows you to continue to improve and continue to grow. It's oftentimes easier to get better at what you're already good at than it is to get better at what you're bad at, because those things might exist, both your strengths and your weaknesses might exist because of the way your body moves, the way you're built, physical capabilities and limitations

and all kinds of different things that may be a little bit out of your control. So I think I've just found that for me, there are very specific numbers, very certain data points that I can look at that tell me if I'm doing the things that I do well, if I'm doing them well enough to continue to have success. How did you find your way to that as a way of sort of viewing the game? Did it come when you were in college at Mississippi State? Was it something that you sort of adopted as you were moving up through the minor leagues? How did that become the sort of way that you understand your approach to the game today? I think those things kind of start to kick in your approach to the game today? I think those

things kind of start to kick in as, at least for me, I'll speak obviously from my perspective, as I moved up through the minor leagues. And in college, there is a side of it where the level of competition is obviously lower. So there is a bit of it where really good players in college are just better than everybody else. And you can kind of go out there and do whatever and have success just because you are more talented or for whatever reason you're just better better than the people you're competing against but then as you move up to the minor league system obviously you get to double and triple a uh and ultimately the big leagues the level of competition increases so much that that or i mean there are obviously still those guys who are just better than everybody else

but that number of people become smaller and the people you're playing against are now as good as you are better than you and you have to figure out what you have to do to compete at that level compete against that level or that um that caliber of player day in day out and consistently have success i think that's when you kind of start to lean into okay what do i do really well you know what makes me a good player what What allows me to have success? I need to do those things as well as I possibly can in order to keep moving up and keep producing at a level that allows me to continue to advance and hopefully get to the big leagues, which is obviously what everyone's goal is.

All right, Ben, if you want to ask another question about a haunted pool, now's your opportunity. I like the diversity of questions. We can talk about whatever. I'm down. We can talk really in-depth baseball things. We can talk about weird haunted movies. I'm good with whatever. Yeah, it can't get weirder than the one I led with there. So this is, I guess, sort of on the subject Meg was just asking about. I know you pay attention to your expected stats and yours matched pretty closely this past season. Your Woba and your ex-Woba were pretty closely in line. And I wonder if it felt like that to you. Like when you looked at those numbers

at the end of the season, were you like, actually, I feel like I got jobbed a bit, like more balls should have fallen for me? Or were you feeling like, huh, I felt like I lucked out a little bit more than this is saying? Or did you feel like it all actually evened out and that that felt about right to you? I don't think you'll ever talk to a hitter who will tell you that they think that those things should match up.

I think we all forget about the cheap hits that we get. We all forget about the broken bat shift beaters that we knock in there for singles. And what we remember is Luis Robert going up over the wall and robbing me from a homer in center. Michael A. Taylor reaching over the wall in Oakland and bringing one back. We remember a ball that I hit in Colorado, like 415. There was a homer in 29 of 30 parks that didn't go out. Those are the ones we remember.

We don't. We tend to forget and put on the back burner the ones that fall in for us. So I think if you ask a hitter, they're always going to think that their expected stats should be a little higher than their actual stats. But, I mean, in reality, we know that over a big enough sample size, those numbers are going to be very, very close to each other. So if I'm being honestly self-reflective and not having selective memory of which batted balls I remember and which ones I don't.

I would say that, yeah, I'm not surprised that they ended up pretty close together. I think I had my fair share of cheap hits as well as my fair share of barrels that didn't turn into doubles or homers or whatever I thought they should have. Well, along those lines, I asked Olivia Hummer of A's PR what we might not know about you that maybe we should ask you about. And she said, one way we keep ourselves entertained in the press box is watching closely when he hits a long fly ball because he doesn't look at where it's going. Instead, he snaps his head to the scoreboard for exit velo and launch ankle and decides from there whether it's out. So can you confirm that that's the case?

Does that mean that you haven't actually seen any of your home runs you only saw what the numbers were and can you instantly tell from those numbers better than you can tell just from the feel of the ball off the bat i caught so much flack for that during the season and it's not a conscious thing that i don't think about doing it it's just like i know where the exit velo is in Oakland. Obviously, it's in the same spot of the scoreboard every game. I mean, you know yourself as a player and you know the park and you know the area of the park you hit it to. And so when I make what I feel is decent contact with, you know, with a good launch, I hit it up in the air and I can look and check.

It just kind of lets me know if I can start jogging immediately or if I need to maybe run a little bit harder in case it's a double or triple opportunity. And most of the time, yeah, I see the number. I know pretty much right away. There are some times when my eyes or my instincts fail me. The ball doesn't go out or I had one or maybe at least one that stuck out. I didn't think it was going to. But yeah, I'm going to work on that this year. I'm going to try not to do it as much because I don't like that I do it. And, I mean, Kotz always got on me for it, and the players made fun of me for it, teammates did.

So I'm going to work on that this year. I'm going to try to not do it. But, I mean, it is like 99.9% unconscious. I don't even realize it's happening when I do do it. But, like I said, we're going to try to make an adjustment and then keep our eye on the actual ball fight a little longer this year. Yeah. I'm imagining the movie version of Brent Rooker's career, which won't be anything like Night Swim apparently, but there'll be the big game and you'll take the dramatic swing and we'll see you make contact. And then it'll just cut to the board that says the exit velo

and the launch angle. That's all. We won't see anything else. I've advocated for actually presenting that information more on baseball broadcast because I would like to see it because, you know, you look at these numbers enough, you can tell and a ball off the bat, you might not be sure. But then I actually saw that in action and I realized that it sort of sapped some of the suspense for me, that I

actually like those moments of not knowing if it's going to go out until maybe you see the other ankle. But if you actually hit the ball, then I can understand why you would want to know as soon as possible, get some immediate form of feedback. And that leads me to one related question. Now, notably, you did hit a home run off of Shohei Otani, which I'm now wondering whether you saw that ball get out, because if you didn't, then you might not be able to answer this question. But there are some people, and I'm not going to name names, who have suggested that that ball had a little help getting out, potentially, from Hunter Renfro's glove out there in the outfield. I. Just going to read a Reddit comment here.

This could be a conspiracy theory. I cannot confirm or deny this. I think the replay is inconclusive. That's why I have to put this question to you. But this Reddit comment says, I was sitting by the foul pole in right field and had a really good angle on it. The ball definitely bounced off Renfro's glove and over the wall. It for sure would not have been a homer

if Renfro hadn't helped it. It's harder to see on this replay, but it was very clear from the field. Trout came over and talked to Renfro after the play, since Renfro looked pretty confused about what had happened. It counts either way. But what is your verdict on whether there was an assist on this play? I think the ball did hit Hunter's glove, but I think his glove was over the wall when it hit it. I think if he doesn't touch it, I think it still goes out. I think he did touch it, to be clear, but I think had he not touched it, it still would have been a home run.

I don't think he hit it over the wall or anything. I think it hit the very end of his glove, which was over the wall at the time. So I don't think there was any assist involved. I'm going to say that. I think it was going out either way. I will acknowledge that I think it did tip the end of his glove, but I think it was going out either way.

Well, the Woba is the same one way or the other. And when you tell your grandkids about it, maybe you can just leave out that detail. There were some Mississippi State fans on Twitter that had fun with that, thinking Hunter was trying to help me out. Yeah, it was 30 rows back. Did you get Shohei to sign the picture? I know you wanted to try to seek him out at the All-Star game

and get him to sign a picture of you homering off of him. Did that happen? No, we talked about it. We joked about it a little bit. The picture, I think, was on Getty Images, so i didn't actually own it so and i didn't buy it so uh no i got him to sign some other stuff for me which i was appreciative of well you can imagine that that it's a highlight for you either way i imagine that the all-star game was a highlight for you either way but i think one of the things that tends to happen with teams that um don't end up playing in the postseason is that the national media can kind of lose sight of some of

the fun, good stories that emerge around that team. I know there's, you know, it's been a hard couple of years in Oakland, but I'm curious if there are performances from your teammates that struck you as particularly overlooked? Were there things that we missed about the Oakland A's good stories about what you and your teammates got up to that you want to highlight? Yeah, I mean, I think there was a lot of encouraging things. I mean, the way Gelof played after he got called up is super cool and super exciting for our future. You know, he came up and was hot right away, just got up to a really hot start.

And I think all of us who had been, I mean, I obviously don't have like a ton of service time or a ton of big league time, but all of us who had been in the big leagues for any time at all, we're just kind of like, all right, yeah, like cool, hot start. You know, he's going to cool off at some point. Like it happens to everybody. We all kind of go through that first little lull when the league figures you out and you go through a little slump and you got to readjust and it just didn't really seem to ever happen for him which is which was really fun to watch um really

encouraging for our team moving forward and i think for zach um you know he's gonna come into spring training and look to be a guy next year i think he has that ability and i think he showed that ability so that was a fun story i think ryan nota is another guy that had a guy next year. I think he has that ability, and I think he showed that ability. So that was a fun story. I think Ryan Noda is another guy that had a really solid year. I think going back to what I was talking about earlier, Ryan Noda is a guy who knows what he does well, and he does that thing incredibly well, which is just control the strike zone. He doesn't swing outside the strike zone.

He takes his walks walks an incredibly high clip and that allows him to have incredible on base numbers which makes him super valuable obviously and he's got a lot of power which i think is going to show up in a little bit bigger fashion next year so i expect a pretty high um on base power combination from him which i think is gonna be pretty special the way that uh ruiz steals bases is obviously as electric as am i in the league i think he ended up with 60, 70-something bases and missed a month and a half of the season. So I think, you know, looking for him to have a healthy full season next year

and, I mean, get close to that 100-some-on-base mark, I don't think is out of the question. I mean, the ton of other position players, well, obviously you've got some guys coming next year that are going to be exciting. I think we have a lot of inexperienced arms with some really high-caliber stuff, whether it's Mason Miller, who is as far as stuff goes, as far as just arm talent is up there with anybody in the league, I think. Joe Boyle came up late in the year, threw really well,

took a no-hitter into the seventh or eighth in Anaheim last series of the year. Luis Medina showed flashes of being really good with really high-caliber stuff. J.P. Sears made every start on the season, which I think is a really impressive feat from a starting pitcher to go out there every fifth day when your number is called and take the ball and go compete. He put up some good numbers.

I think he's going to have a big year next year. I think despite what our win-loss record said, I think there were a lot of encouraging things. I think there is a lot of talent and a lot of desire to be good in that locker room. And I think we're going to be able to come into spring training, and a lot of guys are going to have improved. A lot of guys are going to come out and then make a push right away for early playing time. We're going to go out there and compete.

I think we're going to surprise some people this coming season. I wanted to back up a bit before the breakout that you had last year and go back to when you were an amateur, because you went from being drafted in the 38th round in 2016 to being the 35th overall pick in 2017, a year later. Good decision not to sign with the Twins, probably. Yes, good call on my part. I think the bonus might have been a tad smaller, possibly. But how did that happen? That is a meteoric rise. I mean, that is some serious helium. And what did that feel like for you? What kind of whiplash was there going from unwanted or or barely wanted to very much in demand yeah that was a fun year i think going back to that 2016 season which was the i was a redshirt sophomore

at the time because i redshirted my first year on campus um but i had a good season i hit 320 something hit 11 homers you know played well in the sec against the you know in conference play against a high quality of arms got drafted late but i had just kind of this feeling throughout that season especially towards the end of the year i knew i had more ability um in the tank than i was displaying i knew i think or i thought i was just kind of one or two adjustments away offensively from really breaking out and really having a big year and kind of taking a big leap forward as a player and i remember i remember a conversation with our hitting coach late in that 2016 season and i was just like man like i really think if i could figure one or two

things out um and i don't know what those things are yet is what i was telling but i think there's just a few things i can figure out or i'm like one adjustment away from from honestly being one of the best hitters in the country, the collegiate level when I really believe that. So when the twins called and picked me, obviously it was, it was really cool to get drafted, but I knew that I could come back and, and work really hard for a summer, work really hard for a fall and a winter and, and come back.

And I thought that I would, I could be much better than I had been that previous year. So I made some swing adjustments, made some, some setup adjustments in my, in my stance and in my load, that kind of allowed me to take that step forward that I thought I could take. And I was talking about and put up some big numbers and, and really perform in a way that shot me up draft boards and shot me up prospect rankings and all that other good stuff,

which allowed me to get picked, you know, where I did, which was, which was pretty cool, but it was, it was honestly just self-belief. It was just this feeling that I'm better than, than I am, or I have more ability that I'm showing right now. And I think if I continue to work and try to learn, I can get that ability out of me and take a big step forward. I want to ask you about sort of your progression as a player since becoming a pro, but before I do that, I'm curious, you know, you had the, I don't know if it's an honor,

dubious distinction. You debuted during a very strange year in Major League Baseball. And I wonder what it was like to come up to the big leagues for the first time during the 2020 season. Yeah, it was strange. It was.

It was obviously spending the whole, or not the whole summer, but spending from July, whenever we reported early, mid-July on at the alternate site, just kind of like you were stuck in an ever ending loop of what was basically extended spring training going to the going to for us. It was the St. Paul Stadium every day and then just kind of hanging out at the hotel for hours and hours because, you know, we weren't really allowed to go leave and do things but then totally get that call was it was super special you know debuting with with no fans in the stands with no family being able to come to

the game and all that stuff was a little weird and I don't think it took anything away from it I think it was still the the achieving of a goal still the fulfillment of a dream that i've had forever that made it incredibly special and well it was a little bit of unique experience obviously with with me and all those guys that debuted that year um in a way which is kind of what i told people at the time it's almost like we got two debuts right we got the one in 2020 which is your initial call up and then you got the 2021 one when with fans the stands and full stadiums aren't stuff you kind of get to re-experience everything all over again which which was equally as special and you obviously made that debut with minnesota and then had the trade to san diego and then kansas city and then came to oakland and as you look back on your progression as a pro and a big leaguer are you

do you think you're largely the same hitter now that you were when you made that debut? Or have you had to go through adjustments that sort of are tangible to you? No, I think I'm definitely a better player than I was in 2020. I think I'm a better player than I was in 2021 and 2022 as well. And, you know, obviously the hope, you know, as a player is that I'm a better hitter right now than I was the end of 2023 with the things that I've worked on this offseason and the work I've put in. I hope I've continued to improve. But, no, I think you go through adjustments every season. You go through, you know, specifically once you get to the big leagues

and have any kind of extended stay in the big leagues, you've got to make adjustments there because the league adjusts to you very quickly. You start to see the way pitchers throw you change, you know, where they throw you change, sequences change, which type of pitches they attack you with, changes as you have success versus specific arsenals. So I think the game is just a constant adaptation. It's a constant adjustment.

You're always trying to learn yourself better. You're trying to learn how people see you better as far as how pitchers see you better so that you know what to better expect, how they're going to attack you and and what you need to do to kind of um combat that and get up there and have a chance to compete and have success so no i mean what i as far as like massive swing changes nothing really comes to mind is that i'm sure that there have been tweaks and adjustments that i've made i mean i do that week to week game to game during the season, as all hitters do you're really raking in AAA, but in the playing time that you get in the majors, you're not doing so great. Does that sap your confidence or what is it like to go from maybe being one of the best hitters on your team or in your league

to then you go up to the majors and it's not clicking for you do you start to question whether it will or do you still feel like i'm the same guy i've been hitting it will eventually come no those i mean those doubts definitely creep in i think you're not being honest with us with yourself as if you if you said that they don't i mean i think all guys that um kind of reach that level whether it is triple a or the big leagues but any think all guys that kind of reach that level, whether it is AAA or the big leagues, but any player who reaches that level of baseball has to have a pretty high level of self-confidence to deal with failure and to deal with adversity and deal with doubt and be able to continue to believe in yourself when things aren't going well. But, you know, there is that

big gap that everyone talks about between AAA and the big leagues. There's the, you get labeled, big gap that everyone talks about between AAA and the big leagues. There's the, you get labeled, you know, 4A player, which happened to me many, many times. And I mean, that starts to definitely weigh on you and starts to creep in your mind. You know, you get to this point where, yeah, I mean, you're like, all right, every year I'm in AAA, I'm OPSing 950 and hitting whatever amount of home runs, and this is getting old.

And then I get to the big leagues and I can't do it. So maybe this is just kind of who I am as a player. And you start to, you know, the, I don't know if you want to say acceptance, but like the, just the kind of reality or the reality that that might be the case that it might be who you are as a player starts to enter the back of your mind. But as long as there's just that slight sliver of confidence, that slight sliver of hope and self-belief that you're like, no, I think if I get there and I'm given, you know,

I just give you one more chance. It's kind of where you get. I know I had in 2021, the end of the season, I got 200 bats in Minnesota, which is a decent amount of chance, right? That's a decent amount of run. That's a decent amount of playing time. And I had, I had spurts during that time when I played really well, I'd have weeks where I'd hit really well and I'd be like, okay, like I know I can do this. I think I can do this. I played really well. I'd have weeks where I'd hit really well, and I'd be like, okay, I know I can do this.

I think I can do this. I'm making adjustments. I'm becoming a better player. I can compete at this level. And you go through stretches where I felt lost, and I felt like, okay, maybe I can't do this, whatever it was. But it was those brief times during that last half of the season, 2021, where I felt confident to play and I felt comfortable.

I felt like I could do it. It was those times that kind of gave me the confidence through 2022 when I didn't get a lot of opportunities at all but continued to hit well in AAA. But I had this belief in 2022 that, okay, if I get back up there, if I get another chance to get a good number of at-bats, to get some consistent playing time, no matter which team it's with, I really, really think I can do it. I think I can produce at a high enough level to stick around and be a big leaguer. And it's just that little

sliver of hope, that little sliver of self-confidence that stays with you that allows you to keep going. Yeah, I've never loved the quadruple-A label just because it's been applied to so many players who eventually proved that it wasn't fair, right? That they just needed more time or that maybe there was some adjustment they had to make. It seems like a lot of them have been players who've been DHs for the Oakland A's over the years. There should be a club of Chris Carter and Jack Cust and Brent Rooker, right? But I wonder whether you think that is a real phenomenon. Is there such a thing as a true talent quad A player who just for whatever reason lacks the ability to hit major

league pitching, even though they can crush AAA pitching? Or do you think almost anyone that label gets applied to could or would eventually shed it given enough opportunities? That's a really good question. And one that I honestly haven't really thought about where my opinion stands on it, because the reality is that there is a massive gap between AAA and the big leagues as far as how challenging it is to be a successful hitter. But my initial reaction,

this being the first time that I've thought about that specific question, is that no, I think guys that are good enough to be really, really good in AAA, if given a big enough opportunity or if given enough time, would figure out how to compete and the guys you're facing are better. But I think that label is a little bit unfair. I think more so or more than, you know, there being a bunch of guys who are too good for AAA but not good enough for the big leagues. It's just some guys are going to require more time and they're not given enough time because there's a younger prospect behind them

or, you know, the league or club start to see them as fully developed and they're already 28, 29 or whatever it is and just kind of run out of opportunities. But I think if given the chance, most guys that do produce at a really high level in AAA and kind of show they can dominate that league would be able to figure out how to do not the same, like I said, but would figure out how to be not have not the same, like I said, but would figure out how to be productive and above average big league players. Because it's hard not to have your confidence

shaken somewhat by being up and down in the prior couple of seasons. I wonder how important it was for you to get off to the sort of start that you did in 2023, just to completely put that behind you and basically be an April sensation. And then also, I wonder how important it is to your mindset going into the offseason and into 2024 that September, October was your second best month, right? So you started strong, but you also finished strong. So it wasn't like you were quick out of the gate and then it just petered out and you were never great again. The beginning and the end went well. Yeah, I think that first month and a half or so was valuable in multiple ways.

I think, number one, it confirmed what I thought, which was, okay, I can do this. I can hit at this level. I can play at this level. I can be a good, productive player in the big leagues. So that was all confirmed for me because I did it. I went out there and did it for an extended period of time, whether it was, I mean, whatever, extended is relative, obviously. But for a month, for 30, 35 games, that was really, really good. And then second, what it did was it earned me more playing time, right?

So because I played well for that first little stretch, I was able to go through the slump that i went through i think i take those lumps and learn from them and not immediately be optioned right which is kind of what has what had happened the past few years for me was you know i i would go through a period i didn't have success and instead of being able to ride that out because i've had previous success i'd just be optioned right away and wouldn't get the opportunity to kind of get out of that little lull. The way that I ended the year ultimately ended up being more beneficial and more valuable for me because I proved to myself that I could have the success, I could go through a time

where I did not play well, and I could come out of it and have success again. And that September, you know, late August, September stretch that I had where I played and hit really, really well proved to me. And I mean, maybe other people as well, that the April thing wasn't a fluke, because I think that the April and May when I hit really well and then league makes adjustments. I go through six weeks where I don't hit well at all. It gets pretty easy to think, OK, maybe that's the first six weeks I had was just kind of a one-off thing. I just got hot, caught lightning in a bottle, whatever it was, and I can't get that back. Those thoughts start to enter your mind.

You fight them off, and you keep working. And then to have the end of the year I had proved to me that that was not the case, and then I could do it consistently. I could do it repeatedly. Like I said, I could stick around for a while. I can't imagine having to do my job in front of people every night and then go on Twitter and choose to tweet. When I make mistakes at Fangraphs and miss a typo, no one really tells me about it. But you're very active on Twitter and I think strike this really great balance between being engaged and informative. And I think strike this really great balance between being engaged and informative. You don't take grief from people unnecessarily, but you manage to not be a jerk on there either. And I just wonder what your kind of thinking has been about deciding to engage with fans that way and whether it has largely been a positive experience for you or if there have been times when you've thought about just logging out and not logging back in.

for you or if there have been times when you've thought about just logging out and not logging back in yeah um i think you'll notice that this past year i'm significantly more active in the off season than i am during the season just because in the season it's like you thought i mean it can get exhausting sometimes right you have two or three bad games and logging on and just seeing the messages and the tie and the people who tied you just not that you place any value on what those people say, but it can be exhausting at times to continue to be piled on and piled on and piled on when you're not playing well. So I take breaks during the season for sure.

I think in the offseason it's fun, especially during the playoffs, it's a lot of fun just because baseball is kind of at the forefront of the Twitter conversation and things like that. And I think it's healthy and it's beneficial and it's fun. I have a good time with it, being engaged with fans and, and talking through things. And, um, you know, the, my mindset and kind of thought process is my, so my TikTok algorithm, for some reason, just started in the last like month started spitting out like world championship, like chess clips at me. Um, and so, which I i enjoy watching i think it's really entertaining and fun

but where i stand on that is i have a very basic understanding of chess like i know i know how to play i know the rules i know incredibly base level in-game stuff and opener and openings and things like that but i don't know in-depth strategy at all i don't know i the level these guys are playing like i have no idea what's going on or why they're doing what they're doing or why they're making certain moves. And I think that's kind of how I started to view the way that I can use

Twitter to kind of bridge the gap between how we as players see the game, especially in the playoffs, and how we see what's happening and how the average casual fan sees the game. And I can kind of take to Twitter and use that platform to explain, okay, this is what happened in the game or this is what you're seeing from your perspective but this is what's actually going on from you know people's perspective who have been there and who competed at that level i think that that kind of gap um can be large at

times especially with with certain things within the game and if i can if i can use a fun platform and and make jokes at the same time while also kind of bridging that gap a little bit, then I think that's something that there's a lot of value in. It's something that I enjoy doing. And one thing I appreciate is your self-deprecation on there, which I think is an appealing quality in anyone, but maybe especially in a professional athlete

because we don't really associate professional athletes with being self-deprecating. You know, confidence seems like such an important thing. They're not mutually exclusive. Those things can both exist. That's true, I guess. Yeah, but some of the best baseball player Twitter accounts like, you know, Dan Heron, right, with iThrow88 is his handle. And, you know, he's always making fun of himself, even though he had a really great career. I think that willingness to kind of poke fun at yourself or even though you're among the best in

the world at what you do, there are still someone like Shohei Otani who is in an even higher stratosphere except for that one plate appearance. I wonder if that's common in clubhouses or if that is somewhat unusual. No, I think that's far more common than people would realize. I think whether guys verse it or not or express it or not via social media is one thing. But I think there is a level of self-awareness in clubhouses and guys know what they're good at. Guys know what they're not good at. Guys make fun of themselves and each other all the time. That's just kind of the natural manner

and the natural way things work in those locker rooms and those clubhouses. And I think, yeah, I mean, just like you talked about, we as players often acknowledge that, yeah, everybody in the big leagues is one of the very best in the world at what we do. We are in the top point, whatever percent of people who ever played baseball, but there are levels to it, and we know that.

We know where we stand amongst those levels. I know that I am a really, really good hitter. I know that I am not Freddie Freeman. I know that I am not Shohei Ohtani. I know that I am not Ronald Acuna. I know kind of where I stand amongst the hierarchy of major league players, and I think we all do to some sense. I think that kind of, you know, we express that to each other more so than we probably express it to other people.

But I think that's kind of where a lot of that self-deprecating humor comes from. I enjoyed when you weighed in whether it was the controversy that flared up about whether a sweeper is actually different from a slider. Or, you know, some of the ways that you were sort of setting the record straight on what you look at or what stats are important. You kind of pissed some people off, but I think you did it in an engaging and mostly pretty friendly way. So I'm glad that we have someone like you who's willing to weigh in at times, but I can see why it would wear on you, especially if people are messaging you because they had some bet that was based on you, which like I can't, you know, we don't love sports betting on this podcast and we don't do it ourselves. But even if I did, I have a hard time imagining messaging a player to inform them that they had cost me some small amount of money due to their performance, which they probably feel bad about already. some small amount of money due to their performance,

which they probably feel bad about already. Is that like a constant phenomenon that you're getting those messages just like after any game that doesn't go great? That is, I would say, almost every night, I'm sure it's the case for most guys who have Twitter or Instagram, almost every night that I do not get a hit, there is someone sending me something that I lost in a parlay. I would say 85 to 90% of games where I go hitless,

someone's telling me they lost their $10 parlay because the other three guys they picked got a hit and I didn't. I'm just like, look, man, I do not care. I'm out there definitely playing for certain people. You are not one of those people. I don't care that you lost $10 on me.

I wish I got a hit. Believe me, I really, really do. And I tried my absolute hardest to get a hit out there. I was giving it my all. But I don't care that you didn't win your risk 10 to win $38 parlay because I didn't get a hit. That just does not affect me in any kind of way. Yeah.

If you're doing parlays, then I think the fault is on you to begin with. Right. Read a gambling book, do something. Like do a little research before you start throwing money around and getting mad at me for it. Yeah, you'd much rather them throw money around on breakfast. I want to go back to food for a second, because it's much more fun for all of us, I think,

to talk about than sports betting. And I wonder if you have a favorite city, MLB city, to get breakfast in. What's at the top of the list for you? So my favorite individual restaurant is Toast in Birmingham, Michigan, which is where we stay for Detroit, obviously. So I always look forward to that trip because of that specific restaurant. I think if you're looking just overall cities, I mean, I think you got to go New York, Chicago. Boston is really good. But New York and Chicago, there's just so many good options.

Yeah. You can get out and try something new every time you're there. Seattle, where we went, obviously we go twice. So we spent a lot of time there. Seattle has several really good places. I like that one a lot. And then I always talk about just, I mean, I'm a little biased. Just got to of time there. Seattle has several really good places. I like that one a lot. And then I always talk about, I'm a little biased, just because I spend time there, but I think Minneapolis is one of the more underappreciated food cities,

not just amongst big league talents, but in the country. I think Minneapolis has really, really good food, breakfast options included. And what's the weirdest thing that you ate on the road this year? It doesn't have to be breakfast. It can be any meal of the day. But what was the strangest thing that you ate this year? I don't know. I mean, I'm a pretty adventurous eater,

so I don't really consider anything strange. I'm trying to think. Yeah. I ate one breakfast in seattle that was something i never had before i don't remember what like nationality or ever of cuisine it was it was some it was middle eastern i know i forgot the place it's called but it was basically it was a breakfast dish it was basically it was like a it was a bread bowl but it was really really shallow and then in the middle of it was basically just like eggs cheese tomato sauce it was a bread bowl, but it was really, really shallow. And then in the middle of it was basically just like eggs, cheese, tomato sauce. It was almost like shakshuka kind of, but like a

little bit different twist on it. And I forget what, I mean, I feel terrible because I don't remember what the restaurant or what the style of food was called, but it was, I won't say it was strange. It was definitely, it was the most unique thing I ate just because it was something that I'd never tried before. And it was really, really good. I'll tenuously tie this to my next question, which is more baseball related, which is about how you prepare for a game or stay engaged in a game depending on what position you're playing. Because maybe you've seen some of the studies that have found a DH penalty, right? Which is that players tend to hit worse on days that they're DHing than days that they're playing in the field. And it's hard to pin down exactly why that is.

Is it because maybe you're more likely to DH if you're tired or there's some nagging injury that's infecting your performance? Or is it just that it's tough to stay in the game and stay warm? And I noticed that you have actually hit a bit better as a DH than you have as an outfielder on the whole. I was going to go into Fangraphs right now to look at my split to see if that was true. I'm glad we had that research done. Yeah, we're a Fangraphs podcast, so we go to Fangraphs often. I figured you'd get right at it. So to what do you attribute your ability to avoid that thus far?

Because I've seen some studies that say, like, if you're an everyday DH, then it doesn't really affect you. Maybe you just get so used to that routine. But if you are DHing some days and some days you got the glove on, then I can imagine it would be tough to do that without some sort of penalty. Yeah, I think there's something to just kind of being used to it. I mean, I've DHed a lot. I DHed, you know, my first couple years in college, DHed a lot. DHed throughout the you know, my first couple years in college, DH'd a lot. DH'd throughout the minor leagues, whether that was just to get a day off during the week or whatever it was. But, I mean, I have experience with it, which I think helps a ton.

I think just kind of developing a routine that works for you. For me, it's, I mean, I want to pace a lot. I very rarely just sitting and hanging out. I just kind of walk around. Whether it's walk back in the clubhouse, walk through the tunnel. At home, I'll walk up to the weight room and ride the bike or do whatever up there between the bats just to make sure I'm staying loose and staying active, especially when it's a little cooler,

which it is in Oakland at night a lot, obviously. So I think it's just all about kind of finding your routine, finding what works for you, avoiding the traps of, and I'm definitely guilty of this, avoiding the traps of the ipads where you just kind of get caught stuck watching your swing for 40 minutes between the bats and then trying to make some change the next to bat that maybe not be might not be the most practical use of your time but it's just i mean like i said it's just it's kind of finding what works for you some guys some guys want to hit between the bats i don't i don't do that i don't take swings normally

but i will go up to the weight room you know while're, while we're in the field and just kind of like, so you're simulating, like you're playing defense. I'm riding the bike or doing the elliptical or kind of whatever it is just to stay moving. Skolka. I bet it was Skolka was the place you went that had the bread bowl type thing. That is exactly what it was. Yeah. By Pike Place Market. I couldn't remember. I'm from Seattle. So I was like, what is that place? What are they called? What were the dishes called? Okay, so my apologies to the people of Georgia for this pronunciation, which may well be quite wrong, but Kachapuri, I think is what it's called.

It was Georgia. I wanted to say Jordan. I knew it wasn't Jordan, but Georgia is what it was. It was really, really good. I enjoyed it a lot. Strong endorsement from the Seattleite here. We do our research here. We're looking up your splits.

We're looking up your menu orders. I've got like five tabs open right now just trying to figure out all this information. Yeah. Well, okay, that leads me to maybe my last genuinely baseball-related question. So I went to deep dive on your tweets. Don't worry,

I didn't uncover any bad tweets from when you were 20 or whatever. I don't think there's any of those out there, hopefully. Hopefully, if there were ever any, which I doubt you've been smart enough to scrub them by now, which I don't know how people don't do that if they're famous. Anyway, so back in March, Anyway, so back in March, you quote tweeted a video of a golfer who was just naming every club that he hit from his round. And you were like, I don't understand what's impressive about this. I could do this after every from random at bats i had like seven years ago and again self-deprecation and i'm not even very good you said but i i don't know how much i want to try to put you on the spot here but like that's a lot of pressure okay what if i go easy on you i mean seven years ago we won't go seven what if we just went back to the spring let's say i mean like because i'm

always amazed by players ability to recall these things but sometimes you would hear players from previous eras rattle off every pitch they saw and it's like you couldn't check it you know so maybe they were just making it up i mean like there's so many players. You've seen like 3,200 pitches just in the big leagues alone. So it would amaze me if you were able to do this. But, you know, elite athletes, they amaze me all the time. So like what if I just like if I called up some random game like this May 16th in the bottom of the first, you faced Tommy Henry andry and and you singled uh like okay i remember the hit it was like a little flare to right field and it was a fastball they jam me with up and in i think well see i'm already impressed if i've i actually gotta look this up in in real time to to fact

check you you get in front of her it wasn't i i know i remember the abat i don't think i can go through the sequence but i remember it being it was one of the ones i talked about earlier that was a hit that probably shouldn't have been a hit um that definitely brought down my expected stats but took up my my not my regular stats so i don't hate it but do you remember if this was a long plate appearance a short one i one? I think it was several pitches. That's correct. I don't know if it got the full count, but I remember fouling off a few and having some pretty good takes, then getting a little flare single. You did get the full count, yeah. It was a swinging strike, ball, ball, ball with the runner going, then a foul, and then the single, a fly ball to short right.

You drove in a run. Maybe that made it more memorable. I mean, it was probably, if anybody's running, it was probably a stereo on base. So he probably scored on that. Yes, it was. I remember him making a, throwing a fastball, opening it on my hands and just kind of fighting it off the right field

and getting a little bloop single. That is correct. It was a 91 mile per hour, four seam fastball on the sixth pitch. It was a four seamer, four seamer, slider, four seamer, four seamer, four seamer, all just in the same sort of velocity range. I'd say you did pretty well there. That was decent. I put a lot of pressure on myself with that tweet and I kind of regretting now people are going to start asking me to do that. But I think that was decent.

I did okay right there. Yeah, you did. Yeah. Okay. That impressed me. Yeah. Okay. That impressed me. Yeah. You even remembered. I didn't test you on the exit velocity that you were probably looking at on the board. I mean, if I'm guessing, do you have it in front of you? I don't have it in front of me.

Right around like 80, I would guess. Yeah. I'll check that as I ask you one more question here. But yeah, I think you did pretty well. 80 is too hard. It's less than 80. All right, keep going. Sorry. I'm not a crossword puzzle guy. I seem like I should be, but I'm not. But I do live in a crossword puzzle household. My wife is big into crossword puzzles, and she consults me on the baseball questions sometimes. And it strikes me that there are a lot of baseball questions. Now, maybe it depends on which puzzle you're doing, but do you find that maybe this has something to do with the demographics of baseball fans and crossword puzzle people, but do you think baseball is overrepresented in crossword puzzles compared to other sports or compared to its popularity i don't think so i mean

is there there i guess most of the like a couple days ago there was a one one of the answers was san antonio spurs so you got the nba there nfl is in there a lot i feel like there was there was other there was sixer was also an answer recently which was another another NBA reference. There was a cut maybe last week. Niner was one, being the 49ers reference. I think it's pretty between the three major American league. NHL maybe is a little less represented, but I think between NBA, NFL, and MLB, I think it's pretty even. I remember being very jealous during the playoffs.

Alec Boehm, who I know and have played with, was the answer to a... I don't remember who the second one was, but he was in the New York Times, which I was very jealous of and thought that was kind of cool. Nice. Yeah, maybe it's just skewed because my wife only asks me about the baseball ones because she knows I have no idea about anything else.

It's my one... I'm thinking there are some baseball. I mean, like, UMP has used some. RBI has been in there a few times. I know they like to use the kind of select few that they have over and over again. But I think it's pretty even between the three sports. 66.2 miles per hour, by the way. Yes, I knew 80 was way too hard.

I'm remembering the trajectory of it. Yep. We got to warn guests in the future that we're going to give them a pop quiz. I guess it's not much of a pop quiz if we do, but geez. The 66.2 one, though, it might have been, there is that range where the little bloops where the expected batting average is super high

just because it's over the infield, in front of the outfield range. The donut hole, they call it. That might honestly be one that took my expected batting average up, but don't know i don't know what i'm looking at yeah well maybe my last one here you have a young daughter i have a young daughter so sort of a dad solidarity question here what have you found to be the least annoying movie to re-watch a million times we have where have we been well we've been all over the place this off season right now we're in a big finding nemo phase which i don't mind at all finding the most fine both

frozens i'm okay with just because i enjoy the musical aspect of it and i like some of the songs i'm trying to think of what when like when she requests something what i'm like ah can we watch something that's not that please um i I don't know if I have one. The least, I mean, you asked for the least annoying. So yeah, all of those I like. Elemental is also really good. She loves Elemental. We watch that a ton.

I think that's my top pick. I've seen Elemental maybe 18 times combined now. Wow. No, yeah, for sure. If I added up all the small pieces of Elemental that I've seen over and over again, put them together. The one song, the Steal the Show song, that gets played whether we're watching the movie or not. It gets played over the Alexa repeatedly just because she just specifically requests to listen to that song. I think Elemental has been the one this offseason I've enjoyed the most.

I found Moana to be quite tolerable, too. We haven't gone through a Moana phase where we've watched it repeatedly yet, but I do like the couple of times it's been on. I do like that one. Yeah. I feel like you guys are doing pretty well. Every time I see a trailer for one of those trolls movies, I just like get nervous for all of the parents I know about what they're going to have to experience on repeat for

the next couple of months. Yeah. Yeah. You got to keep them away from the cocoa melon is my understanding. And just the steady diet of Bluey and maybe some Disney stuff as long as you can. At some point, it's out of your control because you just get introduced to less enlightening media

and then that invades your home. But well, this has been a huge pleasure. I hope it wasn't too weird for you, given where we started. I had a great time. Like I said, I love the non, or I mean, it was still a baseball question, I guess. But I love the non-baseball stuff. I mean, I love talking baseball, obviously, but branching out and discussing other things, I really enjoy, too. So I had a great time.

Well, I encourage everyone to follow Brent on Twitter, Brent underscore Rooker12. He may or may not be active on there depending on what part of the year it is. Or how well I'm playing at the time. Goes in spurts though, when he's in one of his Twitter phases, then it's fun to follow along.

And thanks again, the new country breakfast, Brent Rooker. Thanks, guys. All right. Thanks to Brent. That was fun. One thing I meant to ask him but neglected to is what it's like to be the type of hitter that MLB is trying to eliminate. Essentially, he had the fourth highest three true outcome rate of any qualified hitter in 2023. Doesn't make a lot of contact, doesn't run a lot. What is it like to be a baseball player when Major League Baseball, and perhaps some fans, are somewhat understandably saying, we want baseball players to look a little less like this. Might be hard for a three-true-outcome guy to be completely objective

about the aesthetics of three-true-outcome guys, but I wonder whether he would say, yeah, baseball should have fewer Brent Rookers and more Estee Uri Ruiz's. Ruiz had one of the lowest 3-2 outcome rates and one of the highest stolen base totals. So sort of polar opposite players, but it's not like either has the skill set to play like the other, even if they wanted to. I'm glad there's room for both in baseball. But there, that's a reason to have him back on. And next time we do, maybe I'll pick an even less memorable plate appearance to quiz him on. Not an RBI single,

just a generic forgettable flyout. We'll see how he does then. I'm sure he'd have some interesting thoughts on the Okinawa situation too, but the man was nice enough to come on our show. Didn't want to put him in the awkward position of asking, So, should the person who signs your paycheck sell the team? Rooker's former teammate Trevor May announced on Twitch back in October that he was retiring, and literally seconds later said John Fisher should sell the team the instant he was at liberty to speak freely.

Couple follow-ups for you. Speaking of trailblazing baseball women, Louisa Gauci was just named hitting coach for one of the Brewers Arizona Complex League affiliates. We had Louisa on Effectively Wild on episode 1632 back in 2020 when she was a driveline hitting intern and college baseball player. Glad to see her doing well. Also on our previous episode, we answered a question from listener and Patreon supporter Peter about vertical baseball, a hypothetical where two games are going on at

once, one above the other. We had some questions for Peter about how this would work. We required clarifications. And in case you have been consumed with the scenario since that episode, I'll put it in a Google doc and link to it on the show page. I mention this partly because on the podcast I liken this to Inception, when you see the city folding in on itself. But as I was reminded by a member of our Patreon Discord group, that's clearly the wrong Christopher Nolan movie to reference here. Much better would have been the scene in Interstellar, when they're playing baseball on Cooper Station, the space colony, kind of like the O'Neill cylinder featured in our future blasts, and the ball's popped up and breaks through the skylight of a house hanging upside down above. That's sort of what Peter has in mind here, except there'd be a baseball game going on above. I exercised enough restraint not

to ask Brent Rooker about that hypothetical. You can support Effectively Wild on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild. The following five listeners have already signed up and pledged some monthly or yearly amount to help keep the podcast going, help us stay ad free and get themselves access to some perks. Robert Debovie III, Hunter Kaufman, Mike J, Larry Glosh and Garrett Sanborn. Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the aforementioned Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, monthly bonus episodes, prioritized email answers, discounts on merch and ad-free Fangraphs memberships, and so, so much more. Check out all the offerings at patreon.com slash effectivelywild.

If you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If not, you can contact us via email at podcast at fangraphs.com. Keep your questions and comments coming. You can rate, review, and subscribe to Effectively Wild on iTunes and Spotify and other podcast platforms. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash group slash Effectively Wild. You can follow Effectively Wild on Twitter at EWpod. And you can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at r slash Effectively Wild. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance.

We will be back with another episode before the end of the week. Talk to you soon. I want to hear about your mail. I want to hear about your mail.