Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 30-36 : Dr. Robert L. Millet Part I

Episode Date: April 1, 2021

Catch the excitement of the early days of missionary work as Dr. Robert Millet visits and reminds us why Oliver Cowdery, Parley P. Pratt, Peter Whitmer, and Ziba Peterson are the original Fantastic Four. Learn how their mission to the Lamanites didn’t go as expected but what the Lord had in mind was much more significant. These early missionaries teach us to get people to the Grove, share from the Book of Mormon, and remember our strength is our diversity.Shownotes: www.followhim.coYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannelInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcast

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith, and I'm John, by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. My friends welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith.

I'm here with the amazing John by the way. Welcome, John. Thanks for that intro. The amazing John by the way. Yeah, that's how they should greet you every morning coming into the kitchen. And now the amazing John by the way, right? My kids would just roll their eyes, pass them out, dad, yeah, standing ovation.

Say, sometimes people say, you're just such a great teacher. I'm, thank you so much. And then I go home and my wife says, you can do the dishes. Don't you know who I am? Right? She says, yep, you're the guy who does the dishes. Precisely. On our Instagram page, someone said, I love to hear that you guys are learning too. Sometimes I think we forget that even older people or church leaders are learning and still have so much to learn. It's awesome to know that we're, uh, we are all going through

the same things. I think you and I have made that come. I guess what's, what's mentioned the older people. Thank you for that. Um, but also, John, I think we have learned more than anyone. Well, this is why I love doing this because it has changed my doctor and covenant so far, and it's so much. And so I feel like especially today with our wonderful guest, I'm going to be taking a lot of notes. Yeah. Why don't we, uh, why don't we introduce him, John? I will do that. Today we have with us, uh, Dr. Robin Hill Millett. And, uh, brother Millett was born in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He served his mission in the Eastern States mission. He married Shana Saismore.

They have six children. He received bachelor's and master's degrees in psychology from BYU and a PhD from Florida state in religious studies. He worked with LDS social services, LDS seminaries and institutes joined the BYU religious education faculty in 1983. He served as the ancient scripture department chair and is the dean of religious education. He's done a lot of outreach with the evangelical community and has, I don't know, something like 60 different publications. And I have a personal note. At brother Millett completely changed my life. I was in the JSB, the Joseph Smith Building one day.

And I said, Hey, what should I do with my life? And he said, I was mean to talk to you about that. And he told me about this new masters of religious education program. And probably with some help from brother Millett, they lowered the bar and let me in, which was just an amazing experience. And he has been a friend and mentor to me ever since that time. And so I'm really grateful to have him here today.

We are so excited to have you. In fact, I'm pretty nervous. I'm going to get past it. I know I'm going to get past it. But I think my kids noticed this morning they said, are you recording today? I said, yeah, we're doing another podcast episode. And they said, who is coming on this time, right? Is it

Tony? And I'm so casual with some of these people. And I said, no, it's like, it's, um, a really, it very important, sorry, Tony, if you're listening, it's a very important test. And, uh, and I said, it's, it's Bob, uh, Bob Millett, Robert Millett. And, um, they did, of course, my children are going, is that a big deal? I said, yeah. And they said, is he like the Mr. Beast of your world? So if you guys don't know, Mr. Beast is a big time YouTuber that my, that my children just love to watch. And I said, yes, Bob Millett is the Mr. Beast of the religious education. So just so you know that that's your new title. In this week, Dr. Millett, this week in Come Follow Me,

we're going to look at seven sections of the doctrine, covenants. And we bring up a lot of new names. Suddenly you hit section 30 and you're seeing names, a lot of names that you haven't seen before, names that we've maybe touched on a little bit in our previous episodes, but I'd love to hear your take on some of these. Let me read some of them off the whipers we know, but we have a name, Thomas B. Marsh,

Party Pratt, Orson Pratt. I think it's, is it Ziba Peterson or Ziba Peterson? I've heard it pronounced the most way. I usually pronounce it Ziba Peterson. Ziba Peterson. I've heard it pronounced the most way. I usually pronounce it Zyba Peterson. Zyba Peterson, Ezra Thair, Northrop, Sweet, Sidney Rigden, and Edward Partridge. Now, some of these we've mentioned before, but if I'm a first time reader of the doctrine covenant, so this is really my first jump into church history, I want to know a little something about these people.

What can you tell us about these men and how they've become acquainted with Joseph Smith and this brand new church? Well, you know, if you look back on how people came into the church and who came into the church and under what circumstances, you gain an appreciation, maybe a new appreciation for the expression, the field is white already to harvest. We hear that almost always, Leonard A. Saints will think of it's a great day to do missionary work, and that's true. But I think of it too in terms of the Lord has so orchestrated things that he put people in key positions and men and women that were raised up to do very significant

things in the kingdom just happen to be here and there. And this person happened to be a good friend with that one. And suddenly you have a growing church. And so I think it's these these early sections are a testament or a testimony of God's ability to see the end from the beginning and be able to put people in just the right place at just the right time. Yeah, because it seems like all of a sudden the floodgates open. You know, here we are three or four months in and all these key players started coming onto the scene. You know, one other thought, that is how many of these early saints were in a mode of preparation, a mode of looking for what they often used to call the ancient order of things.

You have people that are serious students of the Bible. You have people that are very prayerful, they're searching for truth, they're not finding it, and not satisfied. That whole mindset among so many people, I mean, and it isn't just true here. Think about later in the history of our church as as Wilford Woodruff discovers what? 600 people praying for the ancient order of things to come back. Well, that's what you're seeing in the early days. In these early sections, they aren't as filled with what we might call heavy doctrine, but they're teaching a great lesson about the Lord's omniscience. I like the phrase that I've heard Tony Sweatuse about seekers. They were just a lot of seekers back then,

really looking. And it's kind of nice to see that kind of, would you call it a cultural backdrop of how many people were seeking. I mean, here's Parley Pratt that goes on his own to be a preacher and there, but they're all seeking something, something better. Should we talk about Parley and Ziba? Do we want to talk about these as individuals? Thomas B. Marsh, this is section 31 and 32. What do we know about these specific individuals? Is there anything unique about them that we should know? Most people know about Thomas B. Marsh, the bad side. They've heard about the milk and the milk strippings. But he's a fascinating guy. He's born in 1799, so he's six years older than Joseph, young Joseph. He runs away from home at age 14 and supports himself in various jobs.

After he was married, he and his wife moved to Boston, and it's in Boston that he joins the Methodist Church. This becomes interesting because a surprising number of Latter-day Saints had been Methodist prior to coming into the Church. We baptized a lot of Methodists. And I think that's something about the teachings of John Wesley. I think it says something about How very close they were to having the fullness, but they didn't he feel spiritually directed Thomas does to to go west he goes west He stays there for a few months. He's approached by a woman who just says have you heard about

Joseph Smith and the golden Bible? He looks into it. He goes back to Boston, talks to his wife about it, and she becomes touched by the same spirit that he felt, the spirit of inquiry and interest. Moves to Palmyra in 1830 and soon met Joseph Smith, baptized by David Whitmer. This is a man who had great capabilities. This is a man who became the first

president of the 12 when the 12 are called. And so it's a man who clearly has been moved upon and prepared by the Lord. Yeah, that's a beautiful thing. And I remember when you go visit the Grandin building there in Talmyra, you'll hear Talmas B. Marsh read the Book of Mormon. It wasn't even completed. He was able to grab one of those 16 sheet sections and just read that. So already the Book of Mormon is doing its work

in just tiny little pieces. What can you tell us about the prats and Zyba Peterson? Partly Zodobiography is a classic. I mean, this man has more revelations in a year than I will have in a lifetime. Just an amazing person. Again, a seeker, a true seeker. You born in 1807, two years after Joseph,

Burling to New York. As you read those early years of Parley, he marries thankful Halsey, his her name. He takes her to Ohio. He makes contact with, comes to know Sidney Rigdon, who at this point is sort of a companion coworker with Alexander Campbell. Alexander Campbell had been, he and his father, Thomas Campbell had been Scottish Presbyterians.

They leave Scotland, they come to America, and as they get here, they both decide that they're not satisfied with what they're finding in Presbyterianism, neither one of them like the Creeides. And so Alexander, in particular, begins doing something else. He becomes known as a reform Baptist. Of course, Alexander Campbell eventually becomes what we call the father of disciples of Christ or the Church of Christ. It was a restorationist group. They were looking for the ancient order of things. And so Sidney meets him and they come together and they often call their movement Campbellism. Campbell was anti-cretal. He would say, the only creed is the Bible,

or the only creed is Christ. So anti-cretal, anxious for this ancient order of things, but he had differences with Sidney in this sense. Most people that read or know about Alexander Campbell, know he's a brilliant man, he's a rationalist. Now he believes in spiritual experience, but he's very nervous about spiritual experiences. And so he's nervous about the gifts of the spirit. These two men differ in two ways. One is, Sydney believes the gifts of the Spirit should exist. They should be around. There was a sentiment called cessationism. It's still present today where people believe that the ancient gifts died with the apostles

in the first century. So they disagree over that. The other thing is Sidney took very seriously, chapters four and five and acts, about the saints having all things in common, this holy economic order, and Campbell is opposed to that. And so they break. And then Sidney is going about his business as a reform Baptist. When Parley and his group were on missions, the Lamanite mission, Parley says, I think we ought to go to Ohio.

He meets his old friend Sidney, converts him, and then a humongous number of people come in, both from the Campbellite movement, the Methodist, et cetera, you know, 125 or so people are baptized in that short amount of time. God, doubles the size of the church. You did, right? In this little mission that we're gonna talk about.

So what's interesting is it seems it sounds like a lot of these people know each other before they know Joseph. No, that's right. Yeah, and they bring each other in. You know, something as simple as Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer, they become in-laws. Oliver marries a Whitmer.

Hiram Page is married to a Whitmer. Yeah, and then they end up joining us as families, as groups. Let's take a look at some of the verses in section 30. And I have to, I read the first couple of verses there and I thought, okay, is this for me? Your mind has been more on the things of the earth. I mean, right there in the proclamation on the family, it says,

I'm supposed to be a provider. And that occupies a lot of my thoughts and a lot of my time. I mean, we have any comments on some of these things that the Lord's telling them? Well, let's first two verses. I mean, let's just behold, I stand you, David. You feared man and have not relied on me for strength as you ought. But your mind has been on the things of the earth more than on the things of me, your maker, and the ministry wherein to you've been called. I think most historians agree that this refers to the fact that David was rather swayed by higher and pages argument with the peepstone. That is, he was pretty convinced there was something to this. There really two things that that could have kept David from going that way, the promptings

of the Spirit, or he could have talked to the prophet Joseph about it. He did. He did neither of those. So consequently, David got sucked into this kind of cultish movement that Hiram Pages is involved with, and the Lord is scolding him for it here. And so he's, you know, you have different people, Peter, Whitman, Jr., etc., that are named. Sections 28 and 30 really sort of go together. 28 refers to the Lamanite mission, 30 refers to the Lamanite mission. So we're talking about Oliver Caldry, Parley P. Pratt, Zeibah Peterson, and Peter Whitman,

Jr., those four become the missionaries that feel the strong need to go and preach the gospel to the Lamanites. And you look back and say, well, they didn't have great success among the Native Americans. Now there is another one of those situations where the Lord has them meet someone and suddenly all things break loose. Right. And when we talk mission, we know, we don't think, oh, it's they're going from, you know, from New York out to, you know, towards, towards

independence, right? Independence, independence, Missouri. We don't think of it as that far. This is a long way. It's well over a thousand miles that they want. I don't like to drive a thousand miles. And it was in snow. Don't we have reports they were in knee deep in snow and stuff? It's not a horrible. And here's the other thing. This is so stunning to me. These are brand new members.

Yeah. These are people that just come into the church a matter of weeks ago. And now you're going on a thousand mile walk for the church. And I mean, we've had missionaries previous to this. We had Samuel Smith going around New York, Joseph Smith, senior, served as a missionary for a small period of time. But this has got to be the first major big missionary mission.

Yeah, let's, we're going, we're going to go pretty far out to the Lameites. And it's just that they stopped by Kirtland on the way. You know, Parley bearish testimony of the book of Mormon to Sidney gives it to him. He's converted. I mean, and then and then Sidney goes around to those little pockets of people and converts them that he knows. Yeah. It's funny in the in the come follow me manual. The first paragraph says no one had been a member of the church for more than six months. When all this is happening, it's like a good point. Not even the prophet himself, right?

A member of the church, yeah, formerly organized church. Church is six months old. Well, you think about it. We have years to think about and prepare for a mission. They're going to mission after four weeks or a period of days. Yeah, Thomas B. Marsh, I've read these 16 pages and let me tell you about it. Yeah. There's wonderful just little snips

from Dr. and Covenants 30 and from most of these sections. They can be really applicable to missionaries today. I've got a nephew who is just called last night to serve in Columbia. And you've got a nephew who is just called last night to serve in Colombia. And you've got this idea, the time has come that is expedient in me. This is first five, that you should open your mouth to declare my gospel. I love that. The time has come. It is now your turn. And that's my nephew Wyatt Booth. Wyatt Booth, it is time. Open your mouth and declare my gospel. And Drew, your son just got home, John from Iceland, from Iceland,

right? It was his time. And I love that that the Lord says, now it's your turn. And my, my daughter is in the other room, as we speak, doing zoom, MTC, preparing to go to Tahiti, French speaking Tahiti. Hopefully she doesn't have to walk, right? Or like, not a lot of snow and Tahiti from what we've heard. Yeah, she said, I was knee deep in sand. This is one we, again, we don't pay a whole lot of attention

to these early sections. And I want to tell you a story about versus three and four. Is that okay? A personal experience. When I was institute director at Florida State, it was not uncommon for the full-time missionaries to come around regularly, ask questions, often ask for scriptural passages. One day they knocked on the door, I invited the men, sitting in my office and the senior companion says, I'm brother Millett, can you give us a good Bible passage on eternal marriage? We have this great family, they're just as golden as they can be, but they're sort of hung up on the church's belief about eternal marriage. Can you give us a Bible passage on that?"

And I said, no. And they said, you mean, no? I said, no. Why can't you? Because I can't. And he said, you can't or you won't. I said, I can't. And I won't. I said, I can't give it to you because it's not a biblical doctrine. Now, we can read some things into New Testament things, but it just clearly isn't there. Now, we can read some things into New Testament things, but it just clearly isn't there. And then he asked this question, he said, bro, Mel, don't we believe in eternal marriage? So I think we do.

And he said, well, how can we believe in this if it's not in the Bible? There's this great moment here, and I said, elder, has it ever occurred to you that if if the fullness of the gospel were in the Bible, we wouldn't have needed a restoration. And it's like he came to earth to light again. He said, Oh, oh, yeah, okay. And then I suggest he go and read to them from a few verses from section 132 in the doctrine of covenants. His response was, I don't think they're going to pay any attention to this doctrine of covenant stuff, I said, you know what? You've gone to teach

you about a restoration, read the scriptures. Now, I say all of that because look in verse 3 to what, 3 and 4 to what the Lord calls upon, Thomas to do. Lift up your heart and rejoice for the hour of your mission is come. Your tongue shall be loosed and you shall declare glad tidings of great joy under this generation. If we stop there You'd say glad tidings of great joy. Where have I heard that before? That's the message of the the angels You know, Luke to the shluker. Yeah And so you might be tempted at point to say well, so do I go out and I'm going to go out and preach the sermon on the Mount. I'm going to go out and preach the bread of life sermon. Am I going to go and tell Jesus is, you know, parables? Well, those will all be nice to

talk about and preach, but look what's said in verse 4. And this is powerful. You shall declare the things which have been revealed to my servant, Joseph Smith, Jr. You shall begin to preach from this time forth, ye to reap in the field, which is white already to be burned. My old friend Joseph McCockey used to say, when we preach the gospel, we need to stay in context. Meaning, we teach our strength. We teach our contribution. We love the New Testament. And of course, we love to tell people we love the New Testament, but that isn't our distinctive message. Our distinctive message is what God has revealed through Joseph Smith and his successors. And so I think those are very powerful. It's a very similar message to what, and you'll get to it later, in section 49, regarding what

Lehman Copley, Parley P. Pratt and Sidney Rigdon are not to do when they go to the shakers. You're not to reason with them according to what you've been taught, they've been taught, or what they teach, you're a reason with them according to what you've been taught by these missionaries. That's fantastic. It reminds me of, you go back to verse 11 when you're telling that story, your whole labor, this is verse 11 of section 30, your whole labor shall be in Zion. With all your soul and henceforth, you shall ever open your mouth in my cause. Right.

That's this restoration, not fearing what man can do, not fearing what man can do. I think a lot of the times when we say, well, let's just talk about the Bible, it's we're fearing a little bit of, oh, I don't want to introduce this, this, these new revelations to Joseph Smith. The hesitancy, you know, you remember the story, I'm sure you do the story, I've David O'Macay's father on his mission in Scotland and they're preaching in this particular area and having zero success. They talk among themselves and they reason as follows. What if we didn't teach Joseph Smith and restoration right now?

What if we just went and taught some New Testament Christian things? So they do that. People listen to them. Of course, they don't baptize anybody. But the most important thing is he said, we found ourselves wrapped in a spirit of darkness and gloom. He said, it stayed with us. It wouldn't go away. Early one morning, President McKay's father goes out to a cave and kneels there and pray and ask, what are we doing wrong? And the Lord says, you preach Joseph Smith. You go back and teach Joseph Smith. They do so. They have opposition, but they begin baptizing people. It's stay in context. The three of us here, I know, love the Bible and have taught it.

You guys more than I have, but I thank you for bringing out Joseph McConkey. He had a whole book about this that it's not common ground that we seek. There's nothing common about our message, he would say. The ground we want to get people to is the sacred grove. In fact, he said, you get, you get them there by the most direct root to the sacred grove. That's how you answer their questions. That how fast can we get them to the sacred grove? And I always loved that, that idea that we're not, see, we're just the same as you. But well, actually, the heavens have been open.

And there's the visions and blessings of all the returning. There's new revelation and that's why we're sitting here today. I think this goes back to our discussion with Dr. Mulestein as well, John. When we talk about the gathering of Israel, that's going to happen through the Book of Mormon. That's going to happen. The Book of Mormon is the sign of the gathering of Israel. Israel, Israel, will respond to the Book of Mormon. They will.

I saw that in my own mission that people would say, they just, there was something about the Book of Mormon that spoke to them, right? They just said, I don't know why I'm listening to you. Might know, and everyone tells me not to listen to you, but I really like this book. I really like this feeling. There's something about the Book of Mormon.

If you throw out Joseph Smith and the Restoration and teach the Bible, which we love, we love the Bible, you're going to miss the gathering of Israel. Well, and we've lost our strength, our strength is in our distinctiveness, not in our similarities. We certainly want to build common ground with people of other faith, but when it comes to down to it, we have to stand up for what has specifically been given to us. Yeah, we don't want to fall under condemnation for taking lightly the things we have received. That is exactly right. Present Benson's favorite scripture, I think.

So am I, am I correct in saying that these opening sections are all mission calls? Yes. This is, this is just calling people to missionary service. 30, 31, 32, 32 33 as I'm reading this I'm going I'm hearing the almost the exact same message in all of them declare my gospel open your mouth Declar my gospel open your mouth. I'm just seeing these same phrases over and over And by the time you get to 33 and we'll get there in a minute

But you'll have the Lord saying open your your mouth three different times, open your mouth. Yeah. I was going to ask you, brother, millett, is there anything that we know about Thomas B. Marsh's family because that seems to be a focus there in section 31? Yeah. We know he was a runaway, but even down to verse five, where for your family shall live? What do we? What do we know?

I've read as much as I can on this, and no one seems to know exactly what's being talked about there. I don't know that he had any particularly, particular health problems or challenges as in a family. And some historians have suggested it's the his extended family perhaps, but there doesn't seem to be anything specifically wrong with his immediate family. Well, and these verses, if we apply them, can bless so many as well, because we, as we go through our, our callings and our experience in the church, we have times where we worry about our own families, or we're away from them a lot. And so I've, I've always loved these, these verses that kind of I'm all take care of your family.

Yeah, I think, John, I don't know if the, I haven't read a mission call in a while. I know they've been changed. I know they get changed every once in a while. But if I remember my mission call correctly, you can probably remember it was, you are to leave behind all temporal, personal affairs, right? You are to leave those things behind. And I think that's the Lord is saying, when he says the laborer is worthy of his higher, that's section 31 verse 5, that's that's Matthew 10 language, that's to the apostles, you can have the expectation that I'm going to take care of you, right, that I that I will that I'm going to pay you in my own way. And he calls

it laden with sheaves upon your back. I don't know if I would take that in a job if someone says, Hey, your salary, you're going to be laden with sheaves, but it sounds good coming from the Lord. It's coming from the Lord. I'll take it. Yeah. A lot of agricultural metaphors here. Yeah. One of the verse might be a bit mysterious. And that's verse 10. Behold, I stand to you that you shall be a physician unto the church, but not unto the world, for they will not receive you. I don't know that Thomas B. Marsh had any medical training. I think it's clearly talking about a spiritual physician. You'll present the gospel and it'll have a healing blessing influence on

people. I like in verse seven, the Lord says, I will open the hearts of the people. Yes. That's an important point in missionary work that you can present a message, but the Lord is the one who's going to give the increase. That idea will come up again with Edward Partridge when we get to him. Yeah, I will open the hearts of the people. The Lord is, what does he, he says over and over in Scripture, I will go before your face, that's that same idea.

I will open the hearts of the people. Your job is to teach the message. Yeah. I want to go back to verses three and four, Brother Millet talked about, and just I tried to write a book about Christmas recently and was intrigued with that. To me, it's kind of a Christmas phrase, glad tidings of great joy or good tidings of great joy and how often it occurs in the scriptures. And in not in every case, but in many,

many cases, it's about the birth of Christ. But here, talking about the restoration. And But here, talking about the restoration, and when I looked up the word tidings, it just means news. But, scripturally, it's almost always good news. And here, when we think of, because we've heard it taught, that gospel means good news. And glad tidings could be equal to gospel. And here's the restored gospel as glad tidings of good news. I have two notes and I want to see what you think about these Dr. Millett verse, in section 30 verse 6, the Lord does not tell you this is going to be easy. You will, you will be afflicted in all afflictions, verse 9, be patient in afflictions. So I think it's important for us to realize that when we're called to the Lord's work, this is not a, this is not going to be a walk in the park.

It's going to be a walk in the snow. Well, you know too, we think about where else this is said, in the book of Mormon, when the sons of Mosaic are about to go out. Be patient in a bunch of things. Lord says you need to have patience. You're going to have afflictions. You need to have patience and deal with it. I want to do one other thing. I read a book, one of your books about being a man of God and look in verse 9, section 31 verse 9, he says,

govern your house in meekness. Now this is specifically the Thomas B. Marsh, but let's talk about the idea of the righteous father, just for a minute. I know you have plenty to say on this. How would I, I'm a young father, I've got teenagers, I've got little ones in the house.

What does it look like in your mind to govern my house in meekness? You know meekness is an interesting virtue. Almost always people equate it with humility, but they're certainly close, but they're not exactly the same. I read a book years ago written by, I think he was the institute director at University of Utah, and he wrote a book on the Beatitudes. And under meekness, he said, meekness is poise under provocation. Now think of Jesus, think of Jesus before Anas and Caiaphas. Think of Jesus before Pilate and from and from a herod. And so poised under provocation,

I think has to do with that's an illustration. I know that I'll just confess that in our early years of marriage, I would lose my temper sometimes and I would say things to the children. I didn't cuss them or curse them, but I would be unkind, I think, and I grieved over that until, frankly, the Lord forgave me, and I was sort of changed in this. That is, there's just no place really for a person who's serious about spiritual things, a father or a mother, who is constantly exploding on the family members. We've got to learn to get control, Magnus is poised under provocation. Hank, there was an article in the new era by S. Michael Wilcox

about the Beatitudes as well. I don't know if that's who you're referring to. He gave this great illustration about a car a crusher that would compress a car down to a pile of metal. He said that after they demonstrated this incredibly powerful machine, the man doing the demonstration asked somebody for their watch, and nobody wanted to give him this watch. He's like, trust me, and they measured the watch, and this machine was very strong, but apparently very precise. And it came rushing down and stopped a millimeter

from smashing the crystal of the watch and same thing on the sides. And brother Wilcox doesn't say who it was, but he says the church leader turned and said, we have just seen the greatest demonstration of meekness. I have ever seen meekness is great power under complete control. And that sounds very much like poison under provocation,

kind of the same thing. And it was a topic that we spent some time here in the By the way house because my son Andrew said, dad, the church is trying to turn us all into a bunch of meek little church boys. And so I punched him in the face, no, I didn't. I thought, I said, I don't think, when we looked up the dictionary.com definition of meekness, it was timid, spiritless, tame.

I don't see Jesus that way. I don't see Captain Morone that way. I had a teacher in college, somehow the word meekness come up and the teacher said, the professor said Ain't no way in this world. I want any of my children to be meek people will step all over you Well, you know that to me that's silly. There's nothing there's nothing weak about Jesus Nothing meek about a week about Joseph Smith. He was meek as well I love that you remember that story we heard the the other day, John, about the man who was, who was Abner Cole, who was trying to print the book of Mormon

without the copyright. And he went to bite Joseph Smith, right? He says, take your coat off Smith. Let's go settle this outside. What do you say, Mr. Cole? It is cold. Put your coat back on and stop printing my book. Right.

And he did. Yeah, he did. Should we move forward into 32, 33? Have we? There's not much on 32 we haven't covered. It's basically about the Lamanite mission. By the way, speaking of this Lamanite mission, let's make sure everybody knows what they're being asked to do here. Do they know where they're going to go? I think they must have some idea. They go to one group of Native Americans, the Cataragas Indians. They later, a group of them goes to across the Missouri River to a group of Indians. And I think, as Parley probably gives us more detail in his autobiography than anyone, where he just says, we will well received, they identified with the God,

about which we were speaking, and so forth, no converts that I know of. And they're out there just a day or two, right, across the Missouri. It's a bit like Zion's camp. The great thing that came out of Zion's camp wasn't we're going to lift the difficulties for the saints. The great thing is the men that came through that became the leaders of the church, the 70 and the and the Apostles and I think the same way here. What really comes out of that Lamanite mission is the discovery of people over there in Ohio who are just ready for the gospel. Yeah, I think as we move forward in this, we're gonna find that one of the strategies of the Lord is to command us to do something.

We think we know why, and he's got a completely different idea in mind that we did not foresee. We did not see coming. Well, as we talked about this, the revelation came because some of the men desired to go there. Right? And so then the Lord says, yeah, go ahead, but not realizing what's going to happen in Ohio and who they're going to, who they're going to see, we might say, by the way, yeah, very good. I'm so very impressive, John. He strange that you would come up with that. I have all marked in my scriptures. They're all marked. Yeah, I think the major victories that are going to come out of this are not necessarily converts, like you said, Bob across the Missouri, but the Kirtland stopover. And also the look at independence, our first, right, they're going to step into

Independence Missouri, not knowing that this is going to be a future home for them. Right. I don't think we can, we can overstate how important it is that PartyP Pratt had met these Kirtland Campbell lights and the other term, um, these reform, they kind of reform back reform, baptist, they he had known them before, then met Joseph Smith, then, you know, read the book of Mormon, then been baptized and then returns back to them. I don't think we can overens emphasize how important Party P Brad is and that little connection to what happens in the future. That's what I was referring to when I said

this divine orchestration that's taking place behind the scenes that no one can see at the time, but you look back on it and you marvel at God's wisdom. Yeah, our friend Carl Anderson, he likes to say the church was restored in Kirtland. Right. That's right. It was born in New York,

but it was restored in K Kurtland. Right. That's right. It was born in New York, but it was restored in Kurtland. He is a, you know, a big advocate for Kurtland Ohio. And I am too. Well, and I like what brother Millett said about getting people in the same place. I remember when I was a student at BYU Elder Maxwell came and spoke in the Marriott Center for some sort of a stake, you know, Elder's Corm training, whatever. I was, I think think in an Elder's Corm presidency and the Riviera. And he said something, I wrote it down as fast as I could. I've never seen it published, but as accurate as I remember, he said that within the macro plan of salvation are the micro plan of salvation is composed of micro plans and that God governs the intersections of our lives

and the people that we meet and when we meet them, and then very Maxwell, he said, they are all watched over by our Heavenly Father and his remarkable son who said, in the Acme of Understatement, I am able to do my work. That's beautiful. And I love that idea that there's intersections

and he's watching over him. We may not even be aware of it. Over the years that I was at BYU, a number of times I'd have somebody from the business school would come and want to interview me about my goal setting programs. I haven't been a big goal setter during my life. I mean, I have a goal of eternal life from my family and me.

And looking back, I realize that some of the most important things in my life that happened happened with an impulse. I'm sitting, I'm a seminary teacher, I'm sitting there thinking about the lesson I'm about to go give. And suddenly the impression comes, you need to get into institute and end up Tallahassee, Florida. I meet people in Tallahassee, Florida whose impact on me, I can't measure the kind of training, the kind of leadership they had, the power. I'm just a different person. And throughout my life, I just find again and again a door opens.

And unless it looks like an evil thing to do, I've generally speaking taken the door. And you know, I have no regrets at all in looking back. I realize now those little impulses were, were small promptings, you know. Yeah. I just this last year, I did not have time for a podcast. John, you didn't have time for a podcast. This stumbled into our lap with our good friend, Steve Sonson, and look what's happened. If I would have said, no, I've got other goals, I've got other plans, I think I would

be missing out. So I'm really impressed by that. Yeah, I'm writing this down because that's so true. It was an impulse. I didn't have a goal. I run into brother Millet. He says, get into this program. I didn't have a goal.

That's a really interesting point. I was going to bring up a statement from President Benson who said those who turn their lives over to God will find he can make a lot more out of their lives than they can. And one of those things that we've been talking about here, definitely for the prophet and for all of these people involved, that he would raise up friends. Raise up friends and pour out peace and that, yeah. And look at all these people getting them in the

same place. Yeah, look at all these people are being raised up, not just for the prophet, but for themselves too. I'm sure you guys face the same situation that I do, but because I'm more agent than you, I'm more prone to look back on my life and when I'm saying prayers, especially, look back on my life and there comes to mind key people whose testimonies changed me, whose way of living the gospel made me different than what I was. I mean, those people that were there that are so crucial, a Sunday school teacher that I had when I was 12, a presidvisor who changed my life.

Is there anything in section 33 that we need to look at specifically? Yes, of course there is. I have a comment on verse one, and then we've got to do the Open Your Mouths thing that Brother Millet mentioned already. Do we know anything about these two men? As are there. We know more about Ezra Thair than we know about Northrop Suite. Ezra Thair born about 1791, I think it was. So he's what? 14 years? 14 years older than Prophet?

Some of Ezra's workmen began to tell him about Joseph Smith in the book of Mormon, and he angrily just rejected the idea. He knew the Smiths, both the father and Joseph and the brothers, because they'd work for him. And he definitely knew they were not educated men. And so he just said, I can't see what could come of that. And he became upset when different members of his family began to become interested. Ezra's brother came to visit from Auburn, New York

and about 40 miles to the east. And he insisted that Ezra go with him to hear the Smiths, Hiram and Joseph, preach. The two brothers traveled about 12 miles to the Smith farm in Manchester. They arrived, they discovered this large crowd at the Smith home and Hiram preaches, and as he preaches Ezra's resistance to listening to the message just melted away. Here's the way he described it,

I wrote this down, every word touched me to the innmost soul, he said. After the sermon, Hiram approached Ezra with a copy of the book of Mormon. Ezra opened the book and immediately sensed it was true. I have a dear friend that I was trained as a Southern Baptist pastor. Out of the blue and out of nowhere, he's going along about his business as a pastor preaching. When, he and his wife independent of one another get a feeling they should move to Missouri. Where too? Well, they feel like they should go to independence. They don't know anything about independence, but they go there. They get there and he's there one day when his neighbor knocks on his door And he's there one day when his neighbor knocks on his door and gives to him a copy of the book of Mormon.

The neighbor left. He said, I picked up the copy of the book of Mormon. I opened it and I read the first verse and the spirit bore witness to me that this was true. I mean, most people have to work a little harder than that. He had a witness when he'd read the first verse. He felt the power of the book, you know, and so Ezra feels that power. He's baptized in October of 1830 by Parley P. Pratt, a fourth conference of the church, which would have been in June of 31.

He's ordained a high priest. So he marches in Zion's camp, proved to be a real strength to the church. Sadly, after the martyrdom of Hiram and Joseph, he didn't follow the Saints West, ended up finally in 1860 joining with the reorganization, the reorganized church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As we're there, North-thrupp sweet, we know not very much at all, born in 1802, so he's three years younger than Joseph. Born in New York, joined the church there. He apostatizes in 1831. That's a question. Very soon. Here's the point I want to make too. These are two people that aren't exactly among the great known, powerful leaders of the church,

but how interesting it is that so many wonderful and powerful things are in this section. Yeah. It reminds me like of the Book of Mormon. Think about where some of the great discourses are. They're given to people either in serious sin or in apostasy, right? A benton.

A benton I talk into the priest of Noah, Alma talking to his Aaron son. I mean been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking.

I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking.

I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking. I've been in the talking.. So, you know, let me talk to somebody who's going to be around for a while. In fact, let me ask you, before we get into the section, what do I do when my children, because I know my children are going to ask, how come so many of these people joined

up and then eventually left, like the Whitmers and Ezra Thayer and Northrop's suite. I don't want to come across as, well, let's start judging people by how long they stayed in the church, right? So, how do you, how do I, um, let's take Ezra Thayer, Ezra Thayer, for example, when does he leave, when Joseph dies? President Harabee Lee said he had served a mission in the Western States mission and he said,

we met as a group of missionaries at the Carthage Jail and his president turned to them and said, when Joseph Smith died, many of the saints died with him. And then he said, and so it has been through the years, people unable to shift their allegiance to a new leader. Obed Joseph Feelling Smith isn't like David O'Make. Obed Thomas Monson doesn't do things the same way Gordon Hinkley did. That important ability to shift allegiance was an issue. Let's take David Whitmer.

David Whitmer was an amazing man. And boy, think of how foundational he was to the early church. The whole family, right? And yet, look what happens. Richard Anderson, Richard L. Anderson, when he wrote about the witness, as he describes David this way, said, so very often,

and it certainly was the case with David. Pride was the big issue. David, for example, didn't want the church to change. He liked it back when he first came into it. He was ordained to high priest, but he didn't think you should have the office of high priest. He couldn't move with the church. He couldn't adjust. In other words, one thing about a true and living church, things that are living move, things that are living move, things that

are living change, and some people just could never make the change. That's good. I like that. Let's look at these individuals and what happened. We'll leave their judgment between them and the Lord. We'll just look at what happened and maybe see what we can learn from each of these individuals because a lot of them. Thomas B. Marsh is going to be another one,

who is going to struggle later with the church's seat by Peterson. Yeah. Is Iba Peterson's same way? They're all going to struggle. And you know what, that gives me hope. That I'm going to struggle too, and the Lord here is speaking to these men.

Well, look at verses three and four. Here's what he states all the time, the Lord. The field is already to harvest. It is the 11th hour. That's the only place I can think of in the Doctor of Covenants where that expression is used. It is the 11th hour. And the last time that I show call labors into my vineyard, and that just smacks of the language of Jacob 5, doesn't it? You know, when the Lord of the vineyard says to his co-worker, it's the last time we'll call labors into the vineyard. My vineyard has become corrupted every wit. There is none that doeth good, save it be few. They earn many instances because of pre-scraps, all having corrupt minds. Same language is the Book of Mormon language.

Right, and he's also bringing in the 11th hour, the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. I actually wrote in my margin next to verse three, laborers in the vineyard and next to verse four, Zenus' allegory. And I've heard Brother Millet lecture on this amazing thing that Jesus did towards the end of his time with the righteous in the New World

that he expounded all the scriptures in one. And I thought, boy, he'd like to have a ticket to that, but look how he's putting these different revelations together right there. It's showing how all of the revelations bear a united witness of the Christ. And they aren't to be, I don't think they should be taught independent of one another. I had an occasion once where, when I was Bishop years ago, where a woman in our ward was our gospel doctrine teacher, and she was amazing. She was really an excellent teacher. I slipped into the back of the chapel, listened to her one day, and we were studying the Old Testament, and the lesson that day was on Abraham.

And she taught a great lesson, and a number of questions were asked. After the lesson, I went down and talked to her, told her I really enjoyed it, it was well done. I said, I have a question for you. She said, what? I said, a number of the questions that were asked, you could have answered by referring to the book

of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price. And she said, Bishop, we're not studying the Pearl of Great Price, we're studying the old Testament. I said, no, no, you're studying the gospel. And anything that sheds light on this verse or that passage, we draw upon. And I think, John, that's what you're talking about to to expound all the scriptures in one is to take occasion where you bring everything together, one other experience. And I'll shut up. I promise

please don't we It was the first of a semester. I was teaching new testament I think I may have been the first of the second day of class maybe the second day of class I remember walking over to the marb the Martin building Thinking about the lesson our lesson that day was John 1 through 18, 19 verses. Thinking about it, I get there, and as I'm walking back after the class, I thought to myself, what did we just do? Well, we read and discussed John 1 through 18. We read and discussed the Joseph

Smith translation of John 1 through 18. We read section 93 verses 12 through 20 and talked about that in John's record. And again, oh, and we read statements from Orson Pratt, John Taylor, and Bruce Armaconkey stating their belief that John the beloved had drawn upon the record of John the Baptist, okay. And it hit me that probably in a poor way, but in a way we had sort of expounded all the scriptures in one, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, absolutely. When the Lord comments on these things and he brings them back in, there's so much to learn. When he says, it is the 11th hour, I can go to Matthew 20 and I can learn, there's a way to dive deep into that verse for a minute

And then I come out this is the last time I call the labors in my vineyard Then I go to Jacob 5 and say well, what what does he mean by that? Right? And I can go study Jacob 5 the Lord I'd seems like scripture it seems that he likes he likes scripture Anything else is by the way one of the reasons why the leaders the church want so desperately for us to become more conversant with them. I mean, what a blessing for a child who says, Mom, I need to talk to you, Mom. I have a problem for that mom to be able to say, Boy, I know what you're talking about. And to either share personal experience or to say, you know, it reminds me of a scripture that I that I've always loved. Oh, also in the book of Mormon, the same thing. I mean, in, in, in quiet ways, we can expound the scriptures. That is, that's beautiful. I noticed three times in three

verses, open your mouth, verse eight, and it will be filled. Verse nine, open your mouth and spare not. Verse 10, open your mouths and they shall be filled. Cry repentance. The Lord seems to say, don't be shy about your message. Yes, yes. I had, when I went to the MTC, the MTC president was Elder Jo. J. Christensen. And our very first meeting,

we got in one of those big auditoriums and he read section 33 and he read those three verses The three times in a row open your mouth. I never forgot that and that was the first fireside we had in the MTC And then he quotes John the Baptist who is quoting Isaiah all these John the Baptist, who is quoting Isaiah, all these scriptural layers here, repent and prepare you the way of the Lord and make his past straight for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. That is definitely John the Baptist language.

You know, one other thing I love about this section, starting in verse 11, it is one of the finest explanations of what the gospel is. Notice, repent and be baptized. Every one of you for a remission of your sins be baptized even by water and then come with the baptism of fire in the Holy Ghost. Behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, this is my gospel. And remember that they shall have faith in me or they shall in Noah as be saved, and upon this rock I'll build my church. It occurs to me that in Scripture the Lord defines the gospel in a couple of ways, slightly different, you know, in both the book of Mormon and in the doctrine of covenants, the Lord

defines the gospel as the atonement, the Savior's atoning sacrifice. But there are other times when He defines the gospel as how we take advantage of that atonement, how we appropriate the atonement and the answer is through faith, repentance, baptism, and the Holy Ghost. And so you get this wonderful discussion. Verse 14, you shall remember the church articles and covenants to keep them. Well, the church articles and covenants were what you and I would know as sections 20 and 22. Many of the missionaries would go out and preach from section, but we have as sections 20 and 20 and 22. Notice verse 15, who so having faith, you shall confirm in my church by the laying out of

hands and get this, I will bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost upon them. There it is. I will, you lie your hands on their head, but I'm going to give them the Holy Ghost. Right. I will do it. That's interesting. It's very 3rd Nephi 11, 3rd Nephi 27, 2nd Nephi 31, repent, baptism. You know, I've always said, as we read the book of Mormon, here is the day of days, 3rd Nephi 11, the Savior comes. He shows them who he is. They come up and one by one touches Hans' feet and he's gonna give a sermon and he talks about faith and repentance and baptism and the Holy Ghost.

For that matter, think about what he did, what the Savior did in Joseph F. Smith's vision of the redemption of the dead. Right. Here you have people there, the faithful from days gone by and the savior preaches faith, repentance, baptism. Holy goes. Do you know what I love? I love about it is that there are so many gospel

topics that are so fun and so interesting. And so we have this phrase, and so interesting. And so we have this phrase, but what are the first principles? And I always make my note to article of faith four when I see stuff like verse 11, or the doctrine of Christ, second Nephi 31. I mean, here's here the there's so many, but what are the most important? What are the first principles? Oh, okay, faith in Christ, repentance, baptism by immersion for the mission of sins and And I told Hank on an earlier podcast that Someone had asked me you've been teaching book of Mormon. How many years? What has stood out to you? And I told them I think it's how often first principles show up Faith in Christ and repentance and sometimes adding the ordinances. Think about this. 1 Corinthians 15, that great chapter on the resurrection.

The opening verses gives to us the first principles and ordinances. But the way the Lord speaks about him, he says, I've delivered unto you, first of all, dada da da da. Other translations wonder that this way. I've delivered unto you that which is of first importance, that the Savior died, was buried, rose again the third day, ascended into heaven. You see what I'm saying? That which is of first importance. Yeah, this section, I've never noticed before, as we're looking at it, this is really

a coming together of scripture, because you've got him mentioning the 11th hour workers, he's talking about Jacob five, the laborers in the vineyard. Here at the end, he mentions the parable of the 10 virgins, right, have your lamps trimmed and burning. You've got the articles and covenants that he mentions, doctrine covenant section 20. So this really is a,

how did you describe it? Well, all things together in one type section of the doctrine covenants where the Lord really is saying, look, all of this comes together into one message, which is go preach repentance, open your mouth and tell them, tell them that the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

To two people that didn't last that long, but all of us are getting the benefit of what's taught here. Please join us for part two of this podcast. of this podcast.