I Don't Know About That - Hearing

Episode Date: July 19, 2022

In this episode, the team discusses hearing with MIT MechE PhD Candidate, Vinayak Agarwal. Follow Vin on Twitter @Vin_Agarwal and on Instagram @Vinayak.Agarwal ! To learn more about what Vin does and to check out his music, go to vinayak-agarwal.com ! Our merch store is now live! Go to idontknowaboutthat.com for shirts, hoodies, mugs, and more! Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/IDKAT for ad free episodes, bonus episodes, and more exclusive perks! Tiers start at just $2! Go to JimJefferies.com to buy tickets to Jim's upcoming tour, The Moist Tour.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Okay. New Zealand, Australia. What country did I just come back from? You might find out right now because I'll tell you, I came back from New Zealand. That was where the end of the tour was. We went back, everyone. I was in Australia, but I didn't come back from Australia.

I went to Australia, came back from New Zealand. We've been off for two weeks. I'm a fucking time traveler, man. Like I left New Zealand at like eight at night and came home at one o'clock the same day. I'm traveling, man. Incredible. What'd you do differently in those hours?

I just slept. I tried to on the plane. The New Zealand, very nice, but they have stupid business class beds. I'm not going to whinge about business class on the plane. You just said beds. Every time I travel, my knees are jammed into the seat in front of me and there's always a kid bouncing. We had to do a flight between Sydney to Christchurch and that's just economy

seats on that flight. And I said to my son, this plane only has economy seats. And my son said, how will we get there? Isn't that what I said? I'm like, I've got to hit you. You're going to have to sit upright, buddy. And then I just do what I always do. I just tell him,

my mum used to hit me if I left my jumper at school. You understand? How did he like him? How did he like economy? He's all right. He's traveled to economy. He's tiny. He's like his kid's doll.

He doesn't give a shit. He's happy on the plane. He's a very good traveler, actually. But that statement did make me laugh. How are we going to get there? The tours were good. Tours were good. Everything for the most part.

A couple of shows, dicey sort of hecklers and stuff like that. What about New Zealand? New Zealand was killer. The crowds in New Zealand were killer. I have to apologize to the people in New Zealand for all the shitting that I've done because of one bad Auckland show. I'll be back again. Thanks, New Zealand.

Thanks, New Zealand. You did three cities there, right? We did three cities. We did Christchurch, Wellington, and Auckland. And they were all great. The theatre in Christchurch is one of the nicest sort of wraparounds where there's people sort of sitting behind you. It felt like Copenhagen.

Remember in Copenhagen, they had that great theatre? Is wraparound the same as the round? No, no. They just sort of go slightly to the back of your head, you know what I mean? Because it's meant for an orchestra, you know what I mean? So people like to sit in those seats for orchestras. But, you know, it was – and Wellington was great.

Auckland, I know it was like last year, but I was like, please, Auckland, please don't be a pain in the ass. And there was more people than that. It was twice the size of the last crowd, and so that started to control. They were fucking golden. I had a not a great time yeah it's crazy over six weeks you had you had almost 74 000 people come to your shows yeah that's fucking nuts it's awesome yeah yeah yeah it's uh it was great we did we did 10 000 people in melbourne on a monday and so wow but they were

but the late show is the thing is with with crowds. It doesn't matter if it's fucking 50 people or 5,000 people because we did two 5,000 shows. On the second one, it was a Monday night, and I think I got on stage about 11 o'clock at night or something. And people were just like, I've got to go to work. They were just tired. And I think I ended the show with go to bed. Maybe drink a glass of water.

So that was fun. I'll tell you something about Christchurch. You can take the piss out of the earthquake. They love it. You know, there's certain countries where you don't mention, you wouldn't mention the other thing that happened there, of course. But the earthquake. It's been a while now, though.

It's been almost 10 years. Yeah, it's been almost 10 years. They're ready to laugh about the earthquake. It's been a while now, though. It's been almost 10 years. Yeah, it's been almost 10 years. They're ready to laugh about the earthquake. They were ready when we were there three years after it. Three years after it, there was holes in the buildings and shit. There was like churches. The church is still, I'm pretty sure, not, yeah. And so I was like, three years ago, my joke was like,

this is a great town. It'll be good when you finish it. All these half-built buildings, you know. You've got to get this done, right? They all love it. But now it's just like, I tell you what, if you want to park a car, oh, it's good because every third building fell down. It's just like these lots.

So many parking lots now. Everyone's got all the parking they need in Christchurch. It's a really pretty city, though. It's got little rivers. There's a little river that goes through it. I went fishing with Oysters, who's the sound guy. And Oysters, we saw... Wait, his name's Oysters?

His second name's Kilpatrick. You ever heard of Oysters Kilpatrick? No. This feels like a setup for a joke. Oysters Rockefeller is what... I think Kilpatrick might be what we call him in the southern hemisphere. Oysters Kilpatrick. be what we call him in the Southern Hemisphere. Oh, okay. It might even be like a New Zealand thing or something,

but it's a way of eating oysters. So he nicknames oysters. I don't know his real name. Oh. Okay. It's oysters now. He's one of those sound guys that when you're talking to him, he's like, yeah, this sounds good.

And then he'll talk about, oh, you know, when I was doing sound for Michael McIntyre, I mentioned other comedians and stuff like this. And then he'll just go,'s like yeah this sounds good and then he'll talk about oh you know when i was doing sound for michael mcintyre i'll mention other comedians and stuff like this and then he'll just go yeah yeah yeah when i was doing the eagles and you're just like all right this guy actually does proper shows not just a bloke talking into a microphone like this must be a fucking easy gig oh yeah just phoning it in yeah it says that oysters go patrick they the origin is san francisco obviously but they're more popular down in Australia. But yeah, I always thought of oysters.

Rockefeller. It's always named after some fucking rich person. Just the oil guy. Who's killed Patrick? I don't know. Oh, there was a Colonel. Colonel John Patrick.

Colonel. Yeah, there you go. Jack just had a birthday. Yeah. Jack had a birthday. He's old now. You saw my pub in New Zealand. Yeah, there you go. Jack just had a birthday. Yeah, I did. Jack had a birthday. He's old now. You saw my pub in New Zealand.

Yeah, there was a pub called Jack Hackett's. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to make the pilgrimage. There was no women in there. No, just the way we like it. What city is that in? That was in Wellington.

Yeah, that's another fun city. Yeah, yeah, Wellington. I like New Zealand. Well, we went to Wellington last time. It was in Wellington. Yeah. That's another fun city. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I like New Zealand. Yeah. I know Jim had a better trip. We went to Wellington last time. It was nice weather, but like when we went this time, it was cold. And so this it's, it's a little Bay side, you know, it's got a little harbor and everything land it's always rough, right?

Oh yeah. You come in and it's like just a wind tunnel and you fly right over these rocks and this basically die and then you're like, Hey, we're there. Yeah. That's it. there yeah it's they should blink on the seatbelt light all the time

yeah yeah so no it was it was good Australia was was Belto I spent some time in Perth

and some time in Sydney a lot and then flew to the different cities and saw some old friends and I made some new friends I had some new friends.

I had some opening acts for me that Amos suggested who were very good. Oh, nice. How was the bowling club? The bowling club was belter. I'll tell you a quick little story about the bowling club. So I did the bowling club, the Taramara Bowling Club, which is my father's bowling club. I think they squeezed 170 people in there.

So first of all, we get there and on the rider, and I didn't select this rider, but like a meat platter. There was a meat platter in every dressing room. Andrew Taylor. Oh, so they said you requested a meat platter, even though you didn't request it. I always like a bit of pineapple juice because I feel it settles my voice down, and I'm also a big fan of pineapple juice.

And I get pineapple juice, and I get Red Bulls, and I get a few beers in there, and I started drinking the non-alcoholic beers. I had some Heineken zeros in there and you know, all that type of stuff. And then the meat platters is for everyone who comes backstage so they can pick up something. There's cheese on there and crackers and meat and all that type of stuff.

Although Amos sent me a text the other day that said that meat platters, there is a link to them in cancer. Charcuterie. Yeah. Charcuterie platters. I saw him put that on Instagram. Charcuterie platters uh there is a link to them in cancer charcuterie yeah charcuterie platters this i saw him put that on instagram there's charcuterie platters and it's like the process means nitrates nitrates everything is gonna give you cancer i know but if you have it for uh you know 30 shows in a row over 30 nights it could he could could catch up with you anyway Anyway, so we had these meat platters and all that type of stuff. So I go to the bowling club and the bowling

club is just all my dad's mates and all that type of stuff and just the old blokes. My dad's one of the younger ones at 80. So just all these old fellas. And so they've cleaned out a small room to the side. It's alright. It was a storage, closety type thing, no window or anything, but there's a little door onto the stage and they've kept things in there and stuff like that. But, like, it was, you know, eight feet by six feet, you know,

it was a little tiny. A big storage closet. Yeah, yeah, it was big, like a little room, right? And I wasn't going to sit there for the, the show takes two and a half hours, three hours, right? I wasn't going to sit back for the show takes two and a half hours, three hours, right? I wasn't going to sit back there the whole time, you know. I'd be fucking bored out of my skull, right?

So I'm standing at the back. I'm with my brother, my dad, my wife's there, my, you know, a few of my dad's mates that I know are there. Some people I went to high school are there, you know. So I'm chatting to people at the back of the room, and I'm not using the room and this old bloke, he would have been, I don't know, 90 or something like that, and he's just staring at me and he's getting angrier and angrier, right?

Now, mind you, I'm doing this gig for free at the bowling club. I'm giving all the money back to the bowling club. I'm not taking a single cent. I raised them about 20 grand for them to spend on whatever shit they want to spend it on. I don't give a fuck, right? right yeah and this old bloke walks up to me he goes you listen here we went to a lot of trouble to clear that room out for you there's a meat platter in there there's your red bulls we don't even sell fucking red bull here i had to go out and get that and you haven't touched any of it.

I don't know what a Red Bull is. And he goes, and you haven't touched any of it. I've been there for about 30 minutes, right? And the show wasn't starting for another 30, and I'm like, oh, all right. Well, it's a long show. We'll get to it. Then I went to the other comic and said, fucking please eat some of this meat or I'm going to be in fucking trouble. By the end, it was all gone.

But the fact that he went, I went to a lot of trouble. I went to the grocery store. Yeah, yeah, this fucking guy's going to come down, a big fucking superstar, is he? He's going to sit there and not drink his fucking Red Bulls, the little Miss Princess who asks for special drinks. You get on stage, you're 10 Red Bulls in. That's the story he'll tell from then on

yeah i'll be like oh let me tell you something about him and then another another old bloke came up to me don't worry about him he's a cunt he's easy so anyway so amos goes on stage and my my my father's sitting next to my wife and amos goes on stage and starts doing his stuff and he's talking about porn and he goes you know when you're on porn hub like this my father's sitting next to my wife and he pulls a bit of paper he pulls a bit of paper out of his top pocket and he pulls the pen out and he writes down porn hub and he puts the bit of paper back in his pocket just where the Brad Pitt picture is yeah next to the Brad Pitt picture. Yeah, he always has a little piece of paper there to write stuff.

I remember in San Diego, when I was walking him back to the hotel, because he wasn't going to stay for the second show, he was writing down information. He's at this phone. Yeah, he's a bit of paper. He writes. Smartphone. Smartpad.

And so he writes down Porn Hub. Not.com. No, you won't know about dot com extensions dot net dot or yeah he doesn't know how to do that whether he gets to a search engine because he can't find texts yeah so i don't know if he'll be able to get to this this is the thing is my baby so i got this little room video game room in me house everything right and my baby crawled in there and turned the playstation on right lifted the controller out of its charger and then i all it here is playstation thing i go fuck where's the baby turn in he's gone in and turned the playstation on

right and i thought to myself you could lock my dad in that room for 18 years and tell him to turn the playstation on and he'd never figure out what the playstation is where the fucking controller is i flew you know what it is and the baby can do it right my dad i once flew him out of your business class and he wouldn't recline to a flatbed because he didn't know what the buttons meant. The buttons that just have the logos are flat and straightened up. Yeah, it's a dude in a chair. Yeah, yeah. He didn't want to touch the electronic buttons and he was too proud to ask the waitress, the air stewardess. So he fucking sat upright and I spent

10 grand on a fucking flight and the cunt didn't lay down. You got the meal. Yeah, it's like, I'll send him again. You know, 10 grand on a fucking flight and the cunt didn't lay down. You got the meal. Yeah, it's like I'll send him again. You know, you're an 80-year-old dad. You want him to be comfortable. No, I was fine. A lovely seat. I sat up there.

Did you watch a movie? No, I didn't know how to turn that on. He just stared at the screen. He doesn't feel the safety guard. He read a book or something. I don't know. He probably read. Yeah.

He did something. Well, you got some dates't know. He probably read. Yeah. He did something. Well, you got some dates coming up, right? Hawaii. Yeah. Yeah, Maui and Honolulu. August 5th, Maui at the Maui Arts and Cultural Center. Yeah. August 6th in Honolulu at the Hawaii Theater Center.

And then you're in Vegas after that, August 12th and 13th at the mirage and then august 26th and 27th you'll be in tucson on the 26th all i all i've got is fun things coming rancho mirage and i've got i've got i've got a couple of other fun things coming up that i won't tell you about just a couple of couple of fun things not money makers but fun little things i'm doing and uh we have some stuff for the podcast right merch yeah so we i mean it's been up for a while but we haven't been able to show it so we've got the poo on a stick tour shirt i love that i love who animated that's lovely animation whenever they animate me they always give me a full head of hair what's on the back jack and then back is some tour dates, but they are...

Might not. Well, I think they might be real. They're all real places. Just you don't tour there. But they're all pooey. Why don't you show the April 18th shirt? They're all poo related. Good job.

Poo and a stick tour. For those that don't remember, that's what Jim wanted to call his tour. Poo and a stick. And then no one was able tour. But now you can get the shirt for the tour. I drew the April 18th logo in my car at a red light. It came to me and I was like, what if we do this?

And then they made it a lot better. So good job, Graphic Team. And you can get those at idontknowaboutthat.com Patreon. What is it? Patreon.com slash IDCAT. Sounds good to me. It's been six weeks. I don't even remember how to talk. And then follow us

on Instagram at IDCATpodcast or follow each of us. I have a new podcast, so listen to this podcast. Go to our Patreon. And it's called the Merman Podcast. I'm doing a podcast with Dave Williamson. He was on our barbecue show. We've been friends a long

time and so we're just gonna have a podcast where we talk a lot about water and being in the water, being watermen. That's the Merman thing and the Miami shit and stuff like that. But it's fun. He's a comedian. He's funny. I'm doing and that starts on the 25th. So just

fucking download that. Don't listen to it. I don't care. Download it. Just let it come out. Good self promotion.. So just fucking download that. Don't listen to it. I don't care. Download it. Just let it come out. Good self-promotion. Yeah. Just fucking follow it. We could have done all this on the Patreon. Yeah. Well,

not the plugs, but the wonderful Pornhub story. There's more. I'm sure. We haven't seen each other in six weeks. We have more tales of the road on the Patreon. There's for sure some other stuff. All right.

Let's do some ads. Shoddy K. Please welcome welcome our guest vanayak agarwal welcome mate uh now it's time to play yes no yes no yes no yes no judging a book by its cover all right vin has the the the most there's nothing i can tell from this room. There's nothing. I'll give you a hint later, but you can ask some questions. Yes or no questions. So are you a doctor? Well, no. If you have to think about it, probably not.

Yeah. Every day I always think about that. Am I a doctor? No. He is a senior PhD candidate. Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm not saying. He will be soon. Okay. So you're not a doctor he has a senior phd candidate yeah yeah no i'm not saying he won't

be soon okay so you're not a doctor not a doctor all right so uh okay so it's something academic um is it uh um does it involve something that philosophy no well actually so you made a comment and you said wow I can't tell anything from the background but he is actually

sitting somewhere that is a hint to what we're going to talk about jail well a podcast studio sort of not really not a podcast studio but sound booth well yeah this is a sound booth yes yeah okay so sound booth we're talking about voiceovers no getting closer all right you give me a hint yeah well i mean you we're talking about everything that has to do with podcasting, voiceovers, things like that. Sound.

Yeah, okay. We're talking about hearing and sound today. All right, I hear you. All right, I'm ready to go. Yeah, yeah. There's a little hammer that beats on a drum in your ear. Vinayak, or Vin Agarwal, is a senior PhD candidate at MIT who studies acoustics and auditory perception at the Laboratory of Computational Audition. His research aims at understanding how physical generative processes assist humans and artificial agents in making rich inferences about the world using sound.

In simpler terms, he studies how humans reverse engineer the world using the sounds they hear. And you mock me when I do ad reads. Why? I just read that perfectly. Vin is also a semi-professional Indian classical musician and plays the Mohan Veena. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. And he has performed and lectured on Indian music

and Garukul tradition around the world. You can find him on Twitter at Vin underscore Agarwal. That's E-J-E-A. It is. Got lung COVID. We haven't done this in a while. You can find them on Twitter at Vin Agarwal.

Vin underscore Agarwal. It's V-I-N underscore A-G-A-R-W-A-L on Instagram at Vinayak.agarwal. That's V-I-N-A-Y-A-L on Instagram at Vinayak.Agarwal. That's V-I-N-A-Y-A-K.Agarwal. And his website is Vinayak-Agarwal.com. Jim, you've totally redeemed yourself. Yeah.

He thought A was E. Hey, Ferris, do you want to buy a vowel? Anyways, Jim's a good reader. Vin, can you tell us just a little bit about how you got into this field and how you became an expert in this? Yeah, so essentially, it's like the story for most of the people in this field. They like music from their childhood.

And if you start getting interested in science, as you're also trying to do music, you always have this thought, why not study the science of music or like science of how sound is produced. And that, that's, that was my story. Like I was going into engineering,

um, like any other South Asian, but I'm like, I have to do something related to music. Um, so I studied mechanical engineering and then I did research on acoustics. I also did like underwater acoustics,

like sensing fish shoals in the Nordic seas. And I'm like, no, that's not for me. I want to know how the human brain learns about the world using sound. Like we have just two microphones and like we can process so much much more than any alexa any siri um any other artificial agent so i was like wow let's just do this okay so i'm gonna ask jim a series of questions about hearing and sound and things

related to that and at the end of those uh questions when he's answering them you're gonna grade him on accuracy zero through ten ten them, you're going to grade him on accuracy, 0 through 10, 10 being the best. I'm going to grade him on confidence. I mean, Kelly's going to grade him on confidence. I can't do this anymore. We haven't done a podcast in a while. Kelly's going to grade him on confidence. I'm going to grade him on etc. We'll add them all together. And if you score 21

through 30, you don't have to yell. I can hear you just fine. 11 through 20, stop mumbling. And 0 through 10, what? Okay. Jim, what is hearing? don't have to yell i can hear you just fine okay uh 11 through 20 stop mumbling and zero through 10 what okay uh jim what is hearing how does it work like what do you mean how does it work do you want me to tell you how the eardrum works or do you want me just to go in general yeah that's what this hearing comes through your ears when when there's sounds ear, they're on the side of your head. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Your head. Yeah.

You have two of them. Two ears, yeah. They are shaped in a sort of shape that will capture the sound, so it won't just whiz by you. And it'll scoop by all those little tunnels. It'll go in through the ear canal, right, whereupon there'll be a drum, the ear drum, and there'll be other little bones.

It'll be like a little hammer thing that makes a noise on the drum to replicate the noise. It goes bong, bong, bong. Yeah, yeah, it goes bong, bong, bong. And then it comes in and then you process it in your mind. It all happens just as quick as you could think, right? And that's how you hear. And babies can do it, so it must be pretty easy.

It's right up there with breathing. It's easy. Okay, how about this? What is sound uh sound um is the opposite of silence okay uh sound silence is the canvas which sound is drawn on well how is sound produced sound is was beautiful. How is sound produced? Sound is produced by, well, I'll go through all the sounds. Walking is from your shoes hitting the floor and making a clip-clopping noise. Are you going to do all of them in the world? Yeah, yeah.

Wow. This noise. It's been a while. I did that with my teeth. It's only made for things banging into each other that's the way the sound is like everything touching something anytime something touches another thing it makes a sound okay how does a guitar produce sound um a guitar produces sound by um you strumming a chord the string the string vibrates the vibration of the sound makes a plucking noise and the plucking

noise goes to you and then to make chords you shorten the string to make a higher pitch sound and you lengthen the string to make it longer and what's producing the sound in the guitar vibration okay vibrations that's a good one what is pitch um pitch is the height of the sound but then like that's sort of a difficult one so you can say something's at a high pitch or something's at a low pitch so high pitch is the frequency up high where you're hearing higher sounds but then like you have people who say they pitch perfect which really means that you can stay in tune and you can pick where a note a perfect fifth would be in tune and you can pick where a note,

a perfect fifth would be learning a different pitch. So that's one, five, like that. So it's different pitches. Okay. How fast does sound travel? At the speed of sound. Oh, how fast does that go? And so you can break the sound barrier. So the sound barrier is like light shits on it.

Like if you're at the Olympics and light and sound are having a race, light wins. Yeah. Light wins. Light wins the gold medal each time. What about sound where it gets silver? Sound beats several other things like walking. And sound, like if cars in the race beats car.

Yeah. How fast do you think it is though? I reckon. Yeah. How fast do you think it is, though? I reckon, okay, so cars can't break the sound barrier. Maybe on land speed. I don't think they do break the sound barrier. Cars can go, I would say 1,500 miles an hour. What is a wavelength? A wavelength is when it goes...

How do I write that? What about a frequency? I used to sell car audio. I should know all of this. So a wavelength goes... What does a frequency do? It's how frequent the wavelength is. And what is infrasound?

It's like when you bring people to a party and you're like, are you in for this? It's like being in for drugs. What frequency do humans hear in? How's this compared to animals? Okay, so humans

hear within a small frequency and it gets worse as you get older. You know the numbers though? No, I don't know the numbers, but it gets worse as you get older. So like out the front of shops in like Britain and stuff, they play like a high-pitched noise so the teenagers won't hang out the front. And so, yeah, they go, so the teenagers won't sit there.

But us old cunts, we just walk in like this, no problem. And then if you want to act like you're young, you go, oh, that noise is irritating. Oh, my ears. But yeah, so dogs hear at a much higher frequency. That's why dog whistles work and they work on them and they don't work on us. I would suspect most, I expect we'd be pretty low

on the totem pole in the animal kingdom for frequency of hearing. Okay. Take off one of your headphones and just point to your outer ear. Can you name any of the parts of your ear? Hole. Okay. That's a good one. That'd be the tunnel.

They'd call that the tunnel. You're pointing to the hole? I don't know if the camera can see it, but yeah. The tunnel. Yeah, that's fine. Top bit. Top bit, yeah. Middle bit with psoriasis. Yeah. Yeah. the camera can see it but yeah that's the tunnel yeah that's fine top bit top bit yeah middle bit

with psoriasis yeah yeah and uh uh earlobe with a sebaceous cyst okay how about finish this fill in the blank the smallest blank are in the middle ear smallest blank are in the middle ear oh the middle ear the middle is where the drum and all that is. Right, the eardrum and the hammer. The smallest bones. Is that right? Yeah. What are ossicles?

I think I'm saying that right. Ossicles, ossicles, ossicles. They'd be the little hairs inside the ear canal that's getting in there. What does the eustachian tube do? What? The eustachian tube. Eustachian tube. Yeah.

Don't know. Cochlea, you know what that is? Oh, yeah, the cochlea. You can get cochlear implants. Yeah. And the cochlea is the hammer that hits the eardrum. Okay. What are spectrotemporal patterns the eardrum. Okay. What are spectro-temporal patterns?

Dunno. Okay. How does the ear communicate with the brain? Like, how does that work? Well, see, if you believe that the brain is where we hold all of our thoughts, and a lot of people do, other people just believe that the brain is a radiator that pumps blood through it and cools it.

Who are these people? What is this? I've never heard this way you have people have transplants heart transplants and then they can speak fucking spanish for us so don't fuck with okay next question so so maybe we give the heart too much credit but it would be the ear would communicate with the brain well that's right they're right next to each other wouldn't they just tap on it hey what part of the brain processes sounds the frontal left lobe okay besides hearing what else do ears do um they keep your glasses on that's it well that's fucking one good

if you got a bloke who's blind he's got no nose and no ears he's got a bad eyesight he's kind of fucked man he's contacts all the way yeah right. Right? So they keep your glasses on. If you've got big ones, they help you get teased at school. Jeez, that helps you? Yeah, if that's what you're into. They hold your hair back if you've got long hair. Okay. Can you shut off your ears?

I wish I could. I wish I could. The amount of arguments I would have left. left so never you can never shut them off no your ears are always working man you can you can put noise cancellation earphones on you put earplugs in you can do things that we've manually made the man made to to lessen your hearing but you can't stop yourself from hearing. How do your ears stay clean? That's a million-dollar question. They're a fucking pain in the neck. I used to use like cotton wool buds, and then they reckon that pushes it further down.

Then you put the cone in there, and then you light the fire at the end of it to get the wax out. About once every two years, some doctor goes in there and pumps it full of fucking water. Yeah. And it's a terrible scent. And then he pulls out what looks like a fucking thing that Garfield's coughed up.

Yeah. Big fucking clunk. I like that. And can we all agree that earwax is the worst tasting thing on earth? You've tasted it? You've never tasted earwax? No, no. Just put a bit on your tongue.

No, no. It's disgusting. it is a taste like no other you've never been curious this is oh god a few more questions he knows what i'm talking about he's like you've heard this back yeah earwax right in kids van have you tasted your earwax well i'll be honest as a kid yes it's a funky ass taste yeah shocker your ear smell i assume shit would taste worse i haven't tasted shit i assume shit would be taste worse but earwax is right up there right up there okay um what are different ways someone can lose their hearing? Prolonged amounts of loud sound can degenerate your hearing. It won't normally be just a normal one.

It can happen from a great big bang explosion, ear ringing, tinnitus or whatever, and then you can do it. But it's a prolonged amount of time. So if you're in a rock band for a very long time, you'll lose your hearing eventually if you're not wearing earplugs and stuff like that. So a lot of people who work in the music industry. Okay, besides prolonged amounts of sound, what other things? I'm sure there's an infection that could do it to you.

Yeah, diseases. Yeah, there's diseases and stuff. There could be something that could infect your ear tube and then do it to you. On that same thing, exposure to like what level of decibels can cause hearing loss. Yeah. So the decibels, I don't know. I, I, I'm going to get the decibels all wrong. I think I think I might be way out.

I think the human voice can yell at about 90 decibels or something like that. Scream at 90 decibels. And then I think you start losing your hearing about 90 decibels or something like that scream at 90 decibels and then i think you start losing your hearing around 200 decibels or something like that so you can't just yell at someone and then they're like you yelled at me i've lost my hearing it's not quite enough when someone is deaf what causes us like you know there's different ways to you know sometimes people were born they probably didn't pray enough they weren't they didn't give themselves up to the lord enough i gotta tell you though i found out sign language for the word slut and i've been doing on stage fuck me the deaf have got they're out of control okay this is slap camera you ready oh god it's four fingers in and then you pull a foot apart. Like, my God, deaf people.

Have some decorum. What are harmonics and overtones? They were soul groups from the 1950s. Probably. You might be right. Last question. What is McGurk effect? M-C-G-U-R-K.

McGurk. Oh, McGurk effect. Do you need too is McGurk effect? M-C-G-U-R-K. McGurk. Oh, McGurk effect. Do you need too much McDonald's? Who's taking a typing noise? I don't know. Not anymore. He's not. The McGurk effect.

The McGurk effect. I don't know. It has something to do with McDonald's. No. Ben, how did Jim do on his knowledge of like hearing sound general things like that zero through ten ten's the best actually jim knows a lot i have to say um what yeah yeah i'm i'm i'm not sure whether i should say i'm surprised but i am you definitely belong here. You belong on this side.

Is it because of the ear wax? I like the sound. Well, I got another ear wax tasting buddy, so that's one part. Right in. Don't be shy, people. Right in. Live your truth. So what are you going to give him? Zero through ten. He said that there's a hammer that something gets banged on in your ear.

Yeah. So I think based on that, I would say six and a half. Yeah. So who hits the drum? That is a shockingly good score. Six and a half. Okay. Well, we'll see.

We'll go through the questions. I think I may have gotten close in the decibels or something. There's a couple that you did get right, though. Yeah. I was like, all right. That I knew, at least. I don't know what the answer is. How did you do on confidence, Kelly?

I thought your answers were ridiculous, but I loved them. I thought it was very fun. So I'm going to give you a nine. Yeah, that's 15 and a half. Yeah, I'll just give you five. That's 20 and a half. You almost made it, so you don't have to yell. I can hear you just fine, but you're still mumbling.

Yeah, I'm a bit of a mumbler anyway. I've always thought I've had terrible diction for a person whose professional job is talking. I'm the worst mumbler. One time somebody pointed out to me that they recorded it, and I was like, holy cow. I don't know. I'm driving this podcast here, so it's not good. All right. First question.

What is hearing? How does it work? Jim said, hearing comes through your ears on the side of your head. Sounds come in them. They're shaped in a shape to capture the sound they go in a canal and then a drum with a hammer gets hit and you process it in your mind gotta be easy babies can do it it's gotta be you have a better answer than like what is hearing like human's way to sense vibrations. So our eardrum, so sound enters our ear.

So this part of the ear is called the pinna, like the outer ear that like keeps your spectacles on. That's like, that's called the pinna. So the sound goes through the ear canal, vibrates the tympanic membrane, which is also called the eardrum. And then there are those three bones inside that relay the signal to the cochlea. And the cochlea actually breaks down the sound into different frequencies and sends the signal to the brain. And those bones... Sorry, go ahead.

Yeah. And yeah, I was just saying that the sound like the electric signal goes to the brain in a part called the auditory cortex and that's where you process what's happening. Okay, so those bones, that was Jim got that right. Those are the smallest bones in our body?

Yes. What are those called, the bones? So there are three bones, actually. They're called malleus, incus, and stapes. Yeah. How small are they? They fit you in, man. Yeah, I know.

But I don't know. They're the smallest in the world. I mean, the smallest don't know. They said the smallest in the world. I mean, it's smallest in their body. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know the exact size, but like they're so small that sometimes it's contended, like whether we should call them bones or cartilage, like it's they're, they're like, they're the Pluto of the bone system.

Right. So, so you couldn't eat, like, you can eat like chicken wings and thighs. You can't eat like in a Michelin star restaurant. You're not getting human ear. Here's the meat off the bone. No, no, no. The bird bones. I'm not eating human.

Because they'd have even smaller ones. Yeah, tiny. Yeah. I asked Jim what is sound. He said it's the opposite of silent. Silence is a canvas in which sound is drawn on. Which I thought was beautiful. That should go on like,

should get embroidered on a pillow or something. Is that what sound is? Well, technically it's correct, but then silence is, I would rather define silence using sound, but then it's the chicken egg thing. Would you argue we can still hear silence

well there's actually a musical piece called silence I think from like the 40s or the 50s and many bands perform it and

they would actually come on the stage holding their instruments and just not do anything I've had audiences perform it for me hold on a second that's like when artists paint a canvas and just not do anything. I've had audiences perform it for me. Hold on a second.

That's like when artists paint a canvas completely black and then sell it for $50,000. Yeah, but at least they painted it black. This is like, yeah. What were you saying? Although here, there's something actually. Like, so when the band doesn't do anything, the audience starts making noises. Someone's just walking out.

So like there's some art there. Like in a black canvas, it's like you can do it. But can you recreate the same angry audience sounds? No, probably not. I actually, I think, I feel like you can hear, like silence creeps me the hell out. Like I have to, I always have to to listen to either brown noise or thunderstorms or whatever when I sleep.

Wait a minute. What's brown noise? Brown noise is. I know what white noise is. Yeah, I just learned about brown noise recently. Plop. It's just a different type of frequency or sound than white noise, but still kind of the same thing.

But if I'm listening to any of noise, but still kind of the same thing. But when, if I'm listening to any of those things in the middle of the night and they like it pauses or skips or something like that, and it goes silent for a second, it'll wake me up, which sucks. I think you should do a whole tour where you just, it's called the silent tour.

I mean, you just get on stage and then just get up and go. There was, there was a famous, a very famous comedian who is like Australia's Lenny Bruce called Rodney Rude, right? And he's still touring and he's in his 80s and he's great. Now, there's some questionable material on the thing, but he did bring out a fucking good Rodney Rude, man.

He bought an album. But anyway, so he did bring out a Christmas special called Rodney Roode's Christmas Special. Yeah. And you put the CD on and all it said was, you've been ripped off, cunt. That was the whole thing? Just one track?

That's amazing. Yeah, but everyone laughed so hard and was like, oh, good one, Rodney. You saw a lot of those, I bet. They're very hard to come by now you have to find them so okay so then what is that

is that we're going for like what definition of sound is it is there like yeah so sound is actually a pressure wave so similar to like say pressure that you apply on something

that you push so sound is essentially just like increase of pressure and decrease of pressure that kind kind of like oscillating wave. So when sound travels through air, air gets pressurized, like compressed and then decompressed and then compressed and then decompressed. That's how like that's what exactly sound. It's a wave and it's a pressure wave.

It requires a medium to travel. So if you shout in space, nobody will hear you because there's no sound in space. Because there's no air, right? Yeah, because there's no air or any medium to carry the sound. Because technically the sound can also pass through solids and liquids, but there's nothing there, right? Yeah, because you can hear people talk in swimming pools.

Yeah, exactly. Right. So if I get a Perspex cube, we suck all the air out, we have a radio in there, the radio will still make a sound, right? So if you suck all the air out, the radio will make no sound. The radio's membrane will just vibrate, but

it's just vibrating on its own it's not creating any sound oh so there's no air for the trap oh okay okay then why do we do it in pools i'm lost no air is in pools nobody there's still vibrations of the water or something there's still something to make it travel it's still a substance that pressure can travel yeah okay, okay, okay. I'm up. I got it. I got it. That's how dolphins work, right? Like, dolphins communicate like huge distances. But so sonar is sound? Yes.

Yeah, they'll produce. I know about dolphins. So they'll produce through their right in their mouth and they'll send out the sound and they receive it

back in their jaw. It's like hollow. They have like a jaw in there and that bounces back back in their jaw. It's like hollow. They have like a jaw in there and that bounces back to echolocation. That's all I know about that. Okay, so how is sound produced? Jim said walking is from his shoes hitting the floor, making a clip-clopping noise, and then he made a sound with his mouth. Things banging into each other.

That's how sound is produced. Everything is just banging into each other, man. Vibrations and things banging into each other. You didn't say vibration. I said it later with the guitar. Well, that's how sound is everything just banging into each other man vibrations the things banging into it you didn't say vibration I said it later with the guitar okay well that's definitely correct

like a lot of these physical processes produce sound but like more generally you can say any vibrating object that is like

vibrating in the hearing range like that produces sound so if a tree falls in the forest and there's no one there to hear it

does it make a sound of course it does it vibrates yeah yeah there to hear it, does it make a sound? Of course it does. It's just white bits. Yeah, this whole idea that it doesn't make a sound if there's no one there to hear it. The idea that we're so special that we have to hear the fucking tree fall. It makes a sound. A bird heard it.

No, there's no animals to hear it. It still makes a sound. The trees could hear it. We finally, yeah, there we go. So a guitar, how does it produce sound? Strumming a string, it vibrates, it makes a plucking sound. Vibrations, is that how? So that's the first part of it.

So if you pull a string on, say, a plank, that won't sound like a guitar, right? Like, why does a wooden plank, like a string on a wooden plank, wooden plank not sound like a guitar? It's because it doesn't have the sound box, which is like very characteristic to say a guitar and like a violin has a very different kind of a body, right? So what happens is the string vibrates. So you pluck the string, the string vibrates, the vibration travels from the string to the bridge, from the bridge to the top plate, and from the top plate to the air inside the guitar.

And that's where the sound actually gets produced. Like the top plate vibrates and vibrates the air inside and you hear the sound through the round hole in the guitar. I've always thought it's weird that when you play a flute, the sound actually comes from where your mouth is, not from the hole at the end of the flute. Really? Yeah. Yes.

I didn't know that. It comes from there. So you play the microphone, you play it up there rather than have the instrument over the other end. I actually had a quick question that I meant to put on the outline. So a lot of people say that they don't like hearing their own voice in a recording and it often sounds different than what they hear in their head. Is that just because of where the sound is coming from when we're hearing it is so close to where

our ear is versus it's further away when we're listening to a recording? Is that the perception that's different? So that's part of it. But the main reason actually, like that's a very interesting thing. So how do you think we listen to our own voice when we're speaking? Like, for example,

I'm speaking right now. We listen to it inside our heads almost, right? I don't know. I thought I heard it through my ears, but I guess now I'm thinking about it. I don't know. Because you have headphones on, right? But you can hear yourself actually much more than what you can hear yourself.

The levels are more now as compared to when your headphones are off. Because you hear yourself through your jawbones. Like a dolphin. We are similar. Okay, so we hear it through our jawbones when we're speaking. But if we're listening to a recording of ourselves, then we we hear it through our jawbones when we're speaking but if we're listening to a recording of ourselves

then we're hearing it through our ears yes and like when sound travels through jawbones so jawbones do this weird thing

where they would like cut all the higher frequencies and keep the lower frequencies intact so you think you sound bassier than you actually sound like oh

that's really interesting i think i sound very bassy right now like you do sound very bassy right yeah but right now this is what it sounds like to me and to you it's like this yeah and there's another thing i snapped my achilles and i heard it snap but no one else heard it snap. And I was like, you didn't hear that. But it was inside my body. So it was like maybe hearing the vibration of my body. Right. Maybe my jaw was picking that up or something.

Yeah. Yeah. That totally happens. Like, because at the end of the day, your eardrum should vibrate. That's what will give you like the hearing sensation. Right.

So if it vibrates by hook or by crook, like that's just, if an So if it vibrates by hook or by crook, like that's just... If an Achilles snaps on the forest. Achilles snaps on a forest. What is pitch? Jim said the height of the sound. High pitch, high frequency. Pitch means you stay in tune.

Yeah, that's actually pretty close to the actual definition. It's like the degree of highness or lowness of a tone. And it's normally the lowest frequency present in a sound or like the lowest frequency of variation in the sound. Like normally, why I'm saying normally is because we like, through research in our lab, we actually found another form of pitch. So like pitch actually is a perceptual construct.

We perceive pitch, like pitch exists after we perceive sound. I have a great name for a podcast for you. You ready? It's called Listen Pitch. For Vin? That's Vin's podcast? Yeah.

Yeah, I should totally do that but wait so but we all agree but okay so like someone like Adele who's like a great most people agree like wow her voice is great so we're all perceiving pitch the same is that the yeah so for example

Adele sings say the note C right so she would produce a sound that will contain a lot of frequencies. But the lowest frequency in her voice would be like around 241, if I'm correct. Like A is 440. So like the lowest frequency will be somewhere that that would be her pitch. So like, when you have, so that also sort of covers the harmonics and the overtones question. Yeah, you can talk about that. Go ahead. You have the lowest frequency and then you have integral multiples.

So you would have 440 and then you would have 880 and then what would be that? 1760 and all multiples of 440. So the pitch would be like 440 hertz and all of these frequencies that like exist uh above this 440 are like all overtones or harmonics like they're just like multiples of this bass frequency which is called the pitch. Okay. So it's not a soul band, Harmonix and Overtones. I bet you they were.

I bet you they opened for the Temptations. That'd be on a poster. The Harmonix and the Overtones. The Harmonix and the Overtones. That'd be two different bands. You're telling me. The Harmonix and the Overtones. Yeah, they're different bands.

They're on whatever the equivalent of Coachella. There is a band called the overtones. They're different bands. They're on whatever the equivalent is of Coachella. There is a band called The Harmonics. Yeah, damn straight. And they have a song they did a cover of The Sound of Silence. And let's see if there's a band called The Overtones. There's gotta be, yeah. Yep, The Overtones vocal group. UK-based vocal

harmony group. Well, you get a point. You have to be there. How fast does sound travel? And then Jim started talking about the speed of light and how it would win the Olympics. I gave you speed. 1,500 miles per hour.

Yeah. Well, miles per hour. Okay. So now I need to convert that in me. If I got it right at kilometers, just stick with kilometers. You don't have to convert. Yeah. You can just tell us what your answer would be.

So it's actually a trick question because how fast does sound travel where? And like in air or in water or like through metal? Like no one specified that. We'll just do it on a football field. We'll start with air. How about that? So in air, it's like 343 meters per second near equator. Because it depends on the temperature of air and also like the air pressure.

Yeah, meters per second. Does it move faster through hot air versus cold air? Yes. Good question. Wow. Jack came in with it. Science guy. You're already like close to an A in acoustics after that.

You know how it varies. Oh, wow. He's actually gone to university. MIT sounds easy. I even asked a question. I had the right answer. You would have been in class, Jack, would have always, I've got a question.

We're all trying to go home. So it's 343 meters per second? Yes. That's 767 miles per hour. I went faster than that. Yeah, yeah. So a commercial jet goes 500, but they're not.

No, per second, Forrest. You're way out. Meters per second. To miles per second, probably, right? Miles per hour. I think it's about correct. Yeah. All right.

You two are scientists. I'm just putting it in this thing. I don't think it'd be 770 miles per hour. I don't know. It would be per second. Because we have cars that can do that. Let's just keep with 300. We have hot rod cars that can do that.

Let's keep with 343 meters per second. Let's just be dumb Americans. And have hot rod cars that can do that. Let's keep with 343 meters per second. Let's just be dumb and Eric. And then in water, it's slower? Actually, in water, it's faster. Ooh, damn. Forrest was a marine biologist, bitch. And he didn't know that. He's like, I'm going to be slower in water.

Nah, he didn't know. There was a question mark at the end of my statement. So just so you know. I guess that makes sense because so many creatures in the ocean have to communicate from really far away. So I guess that makes sense.

Yeah, so they've got to talk a lot of the way. So it makes sense that it moves faster in water. Okay, and then so what is a wavelength? And Jim said it when it goes wow. I've got a question. How far can the human voice be Okay, and then, so what is a wavelength? And Jim said it when it goes, whoa. I've got a question. How far can the human voice be heard? If all things equal, you know what I mean?

What things equal? No, because I feel like I can yell over a value. Like sometimes I can talk to an audience of 5,000 people without my microphone for a joke. But that's the way the theater was built. They can all hear me. And I can hear a heckler over 5,000 people without my microphone for a joke. But that's the way that they can all hear me. And I can hear a heckler over 5,000 people. No, but I just, I just heard, read this thing. And it was like any of the theaters that were built like in the twenties and

thirties, like the vaudeville area era, the acoustics are awesome because they didn't have amplified sound yet then. So they built them also if someone could just stand there and talk. So when you're in those older theaters, you know, and you're like, like the beacon or something like that. And you're in it and you're like, oh, I can,

they can hear me so much better. And then more modern theaters are like, you have to be standing in a field yelling help. I'll change the way I do it. How far can the human voice be heard in, in the desert? Hmm. That's,

that's a really nice question. Because I don't want a lake too. Like if I've been on a lake before and it's been a mile across the lake and I can hear people on the other side of the lake talking and I don't know why.

It travels faster with water for it. No, it's over the water. Actually, near a lake, you can hear much further

than in a desert. Who wants to guess why? Because it bounces off of the water? Yeah, because it bounces, it skims across like a stone. Can I get an A? Yes.

For this problem, yes. Is that why? Yeah, so actually the air-water interface, that just reflects sound the same way it reflects light. So most of the sound will just get reflected off there, but like sand will absorb sound a lot. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay.

So in the desert, it wouldn't travel as far than the, yeah. Then like say near a water body, but then the water body also makes its own sound. So like anyone on the other side, if the water is like too loud, they have to sort of separate the water from the voice, which is like a separate issue. Is it easier to hear people during the day or at night? Because the temperature would change.

Hot air versus cold air. I do feel like when it gets colder, you can hear the highway more. Like for the house I used to live at. I don't know. Maybe that's just me. Rush hour. Yeah, maybe. So many factors. Yeah. Is it easy to hear at 5 p.m and 9 a.m

but the lake thing i used to live in a lake in new york and it was crazy it was like miles across and i could hear their conversation like they were sitting next to me it was just weird but also still be careful what you're saying i think that fuck on the other side of the river is listening in. He can't hear. Why does he pull these dick out? That's just what he does. So, wavelength, Jim said, is wah, wah, wah. And then a frequency is how frequent the wavelength is. And infrasound is when you bring people to a party and ask, are you in for this?

Yeah. How could he do that? Yeah. I'll take it, buddy. The frequency answer was correct. So, I can give you that. So it's how frequently the wavelength repeats itself. Um, so it's like how many vibrations per second, essentially.

So how many pressure vibrations are happening per second? So if I say 20 Hertz, that means 20 vibrations per second, which is also the lowest frequency that humans can hear 20 Hertz. So like to make hearable sound or audible sound, you need to like vibrate something 20 times a second, which is crazy, right? Like how can you, you cannot move your hand that fast. Right. So that's why I knew that they were going to do that.

No, you can't. I got a mate with Parkinson's. who gave you a run for his money. The experiment has been done. We agree with you. Yeah. And wavelength is the spatial measure of, like, it's the length after which the wave repeats itself. So a wave has, like, a compression and a rarefaction,

a compression and a rarefaction. So the distance from one compression to another compression, that's the wavelength. So vinyl records or digital downloads, like people argue that vinyl is better because it's an acoustic sound that's coming off a vibration off the needle. That's a farce. Oh, man, but I like to be pretentious at parties and shit.

Are you a hipster now, Jim? I like- No, the reason is a lot of MP3s are super compressed versus vinyl, which is as compressed. Wow. Yeah. You really have an A. It's a different story.

Yeah. So MP3 is a different story, but like, if you have like a wave file or even say CD audio, um, like wave file is like not compressed at all and like yeah waves there's a reason we moved from analog sound to digital sound there was a reason so i'm just off topic a bit so what was the instrument that forrest said you played what was that uh it's called the mohan veena and what's a mohan veena i The only Indian instrument I know, I might be wrong, this might not be, is the sitar, right? We all know the sitar.

Is it similar to that or? So actually my guru played the sitar. So it's basically, Mohan Veena is actually the body of a guitar, the strings of a sitar, and the playing style, like of an ancient instrument called the vichitra veena. So how it works is, have you seen the slide guitar? I have, yes. Right. And the playing style, um, like of an ancient instrument called the Vichitravina. Uh, so how it works is, have you seen the slide guitar?

I have, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've lived in America long enough to see people with a big ring on their finger slot up and down. Yeah.

Yeah. So, um, think of like the Hawaiian guitars. If you've been to Hawaii, like they have like this metal rod that they use to like slide on the guitar and like they put it in the lap and like, that's how they play the guitar. So a Mohan Veena is played like that.

Um, but it has the strings of a sitar. Uh, so it has like 21 strings. Uh, wow. Oh, cool. Yeah. Uh, I know. Was, was Ravi Shankar, like, was he considered the godfather of Indian music or something?

Cause all I know is he hung out with George Harrison a bit. Did he get too much press or was he worth the hype? So he was a very interesting person. So I belong from like his gharana or like his school of music. So he was really good, but definitely a part of the cloud that he got was because like he was sort of the father of Indian music in the west because that's what like like he he recognized that hippie culture um is a very good sort of um

clientele yeah indian music yeah yeah they buy stuff late at night they don't know why you don't have your instrument with you right it's like not right there. Not now. Not right now. I should have arranged that. Okay. So the frequency, we just did this. The frequency, so that's the distance between the wavelengths. And the wavelengths.

It's how frequently the wavelength occurs. Wavelength is the length between the waves. And frequency is a number of vibrations per second. Yeah, the speed of the vibrations. Okay. And then infra... Where was that one? Infrasound. It's all sound below the lowest

frequency we can hear. So below 20 hertz. Okay. And that was the next question was what frequency range do humans hear? And 20 hertz is the lowest? Yes. And the highest? What did I say? I don't remember. You said humans

have a small frequency. It gets worse as you get older. I think you said 300. But I said something about how you can go deaf. You said 90. I was going to yell the 90 or something. 90 decibels. I said the thing about the shopping center, the convenience store. Yeah, that was decibels. That's the thing about the shopping center, the convenience store. Yeah, that was decibels.

So there's a range over here. So 20 hertz is the lowest, and then the high end is? 20 kilohertz. So like 20,000 hertz. Oh, wow. And is there anyone, is there people who can, like, are we all hearing it the same? Or is there people who have got stronger hearing?

You know what I mean? I don't know. So, I think, like, you said it already. Like, our hearing range sort of decreases or diminishes with age. So, 20,000 hertz is like, okay, a baby can hear 20,000 hertz. But, like, we can't. So, you can play, like, 19,000 hertz on your phone or on your speaker through your headphones, like you won't be able to hear.

But what about that when they say people that are blind, they can hear better than people that aren't? So they're just, they're hurt, yeah. So that is mostly due to the fact that they have to rely solely on their hearing. So they hear the same thing, but their brain is able to comprehend more stuff from the same sound.

Because they're forced to like, for example, just from the sound of a rolling ball, estimate mass of the rolling ball. This seems like a heavy ball. I need to stay away from it or something. We don't need to rely on our hearing that much because we can see. If a person cannot see, they have to rely on all sorts of inferences from sound. It's also like you'll be at a party and if you stare at someone, like everyone can be talking at the party, but if you stare at the person,

your hearing can like actually focus in on that person. You go, I know what they're talking about. But if you're not looking at them, It's called like the cocktail effect. Yeah. Your cocktail party problem. Yes. That's a real thing.

So hearing scientists take this example of a cocktail party and they're really, so nobody has been able to explain how humans exactly are able to, like, we can even listen to like four or five speakers at once. Like if five speakers are saying something, you'll be able to listen to each of them like even when you close your eyes like you don't need to look at the person uh you can like stream the sound from like one source and just reject the others on will so you can try to listen to one sound try to listen to another and like you can do it on will like you don't need to look at the person for that i always like those adverts that are late at night and there's like someone who can't hear very well and then they're like you buy this thing and you'll be able to hear people this far away at parties and all that stuff and it's always like someone's sitting there and then someone's like did you see that dress she's wearing she

looks amazing and the person's sitting there going yeah because that's what happens when people are talking far away from you. They're always saying nice things. Only compliments. He's such a handsome individual. I like hanging out with him. You never hear fucking Jim's here. He's gotten fat. That would only be good things. That wouldn't be good for the

commercial, I don't think. What about people who have... There's a guy in the commercial, there is a guy and he's at the beach and there's two girls sunbaking next to each other and they're like who's that guy over there and he sort of looks that camera like without my spying device i never would have known they're interested when they'd really be going why is he staring and he's got headphones on with a small little thing. What about people with like auditory processing problem? Like I have ADHD. And so when I'm in a room that's really loud

and a lot of conversations are going on, I feel like I'm hearing all of them at the same time. And that's super overwhelming. Or when people chew with their mouth open or any of those things, like that hurts my ears more than it does somebody. How does that all work?

So I think like there are multiple things in this. One is like some people have more sensitive ears than others. Like, for example, if someone talks loudly next to me, like my ears hurt. But at the same time, like the thing that you are saying is like i think related to the attention deficit because when you have to stream one speaker out of say 10 people speaking at the same time like you need to attend to that right source right like it requires attention abilities of your mind and uh it's still like an open research question, uh, but like from what I can see or like what, from what I have read, I can, uh, say that it's probably what

you're experiencing is a part of your like AD part of it. So I don't like the nails and the chalkboard. I don't even know like chalk being on boards. And I went to school where it was all chalk the whole time. And I put up with this stuff. Why is there certain because it seems like a pretty universe another one I can't if my fingernails are on the juco paint on a car sometimes people don't like people chewing ice stuff oh I love that noise yeah but sometimes people don't like certain sounds yeah I know

that I don't know sharpie for me so what's the most irritating sound in the world as a scientist? Thinking of Dumb and Dumber right now? Yeah. I think irritating sound. So that's actually, I think we should probably do some research on that. We have never quantified the irritability of sounds. But the thing is, why we find certain sounds more irritable than others. It's because sometimes they have like evolutionary links. Like for example,

screams are high pitched, right? So that means danger. So if someone would scream in the wild, that means you have to go away from that, right? Or like there's something to run away from. So similarly,

when the chalk like makes that kind of a screeching sound we feel oh this is like unpleasant this is not something we should be hearing everyone likes the sound of a crackling of a fire until you're on fire yeah well i don't think you yeah like you think if that's evolutionary you think oh but also that the fire the crackling of the fire means warmth and it means your food's being cooked and this means you're going to live so double-edged sword the old fire when does it transfer from being like unpleasant to somebody who suffers from misophonia or is that how you pronounce it misophonia no you say phonia yeah we also funny that's that's actually a really good question uh like all this on like aesthetics of sound still it's like people are trying to do research on this but like we don't have like very strong

scientific evidence because of like the fact that like all of these things are just so cultural like we went to like some of our the researchers from our lab went to this amazonian tribe in bolivia and like we played them music from say our culture and like that tribe did not have any human contact before that or like any significant human contact so like their idea of what's good in music was totally different like we would say oh this is like like this chord sounds really nice like for example a major chord that sounds really happy and to them it's like oh it does it like so it's and they love nickelback there i've heard no but did they did they like

take to mozart or any like the people that we all recognize a brilliance you know did they relate to that did they like the beatles did they or because i always think that about like so the aboriginals are the oldest culture in the world right but then in europe you already had you know mozart it already happened on tuesday and the aboriginals they were what instrument you got the hollowed out stick that goes and now it's sort of culturally become a thing where you go oh it is sort of beautiful and you can sort of think but oh you wouldn't listen to a whole album is what I'm saying. So you wanted to find out if the tribes in Bolivia, the Amazonian, did they not enjoy the music? Well, I'm just saying, yeah, did they see that as too complicated

and they liked the more basic sound or what happened there? So their music tradition, so they also have music. So the crazy part is like even humans who have sort of evolved like distantly from say the Western population, even they have like their own music. So like everyone came up with music on their own sort of. And they have a more singing based and drum based music. So they're not used to say stringed instruments or uh like they have pan flute okay so they have like wind instruments uh but to them like any structure i think structure sounds good to like even them so like if you have beat patterns uh things are repeating in time

so like those things like those kind of like temporal structures or like um constant frequencies like those things like sound good to them, but like, it's an open question and like, we should do a followup study of how they perceive Mozart. They're like EDM music then. Yeah. I used to like drum music and still the bloody,

the drum circles in Venice when I was living there every weekend. Holy hell, those idiots fucking slapping their drums around. Oh, I'm going to join in. All they did for hours on end. Yeah, they didn't bloody stop. I'll tell you what country I reckon has the worst music.

I've travelled the world. I can't stand the Greek music. I don't know what's going on. We've ranted about this before on this podcast. The bloody Greek music. I sit in their restaurants and I'm like, you can't want to listen to this the whole time. And I like the food

and everything, right? I reckon as soon as you leave a Greek restaurant, the waiters go, turn it off! That's how they just clear turntables. So these were some general questions about ears. I asked Jim to point to his ear and he said, this is

the whole top bit, middle bit with psoriasis and earlobe with sebaceous cyst. You said this one is a pene? You said that earlier, the top is the pene? Yeah, it's called the pene. Pene. And this is the lobe or is that called something else? Yeah, it's called the earlobe.

Well, you can call it like lobule, but lobe is fine. Does the lobe do anything? Because my father doesn't really have them. He just has these scrunched up wrinkly bits of skin at the bottom of his ears. Like he's a lobeless man. You know something very cool about lobes? I think you might know that there are two types of people. Attached and detached ear lobes.

Yeah, yeah. So either... I'm not attached. Sometimes they're attached to something. Yours aren't detached. No, they feel pretty attached to me no no no no to your head

but like oh it connects here with your neck right is that yeah yeah so the tip of your earlobe yeah mine's not

attached so I yeah you know okay what do they do it keeps on growing yeah

as you age so your earlobes never stop growing actually so they grow very slowly but like they never stop growing and they have grow very slowly but like they never stop growing and they have like one of the you can say densest um network of capillaries and like blood

vessels and nobody knows why nobody still knows why so what yeah like what's the point of it and what like earrings yeah for earrings i guess yeah that's what they're for so they have the densest capillaries and we poke holes in them? Like, yeah, that's going to be good. The people who get the big rings in there and they get them larger and larger. The gauges. No, what are you doing, dude? Sooner you have to take it off and then you got that just floppy bit of skin.

And it smells. It smells? Yeah. Yeah. People, when they take the gauges out, the holes smell really bad. Hey, Jack was out of the room when this happened. Jack. Yeah. Have you ever tasted your earwax and did you enjoy it?

Yes, I've tasted it. No, I did not enjoy it. What the fuck? It's terrible, isn't it? It's terrible. Well, you don't know what's on your finger. All of a sudden, you do something. Oh, no, I purposely did it.

Okay, no, mine was on purpose. What do you mean you don't know what's on your finger? Why are you sticking your finger in your mouth? You don't know what's on it. Dude, I don't your finger in your mouth if you don't know what's on it? Dude, I don't know. I just have a nail buyer. It's a bitter. It's very bitter. Yeah, it's very bitter. Look, I didn't

like it. I didn't want it to happen. You're going to do it now, Kelly. No, there's no chance. Just when you get it, just a little bit. I have the weakest stomach in the world even thinking about it. You don't have to swallow it. No, I don't want to dip it on my tongue. I'll throw up. I legitimately will throw up.

Is there any other parts of the outer ear? I'll do it right now. No, please don't. I don't want it. It's very bitter. Kelly, easy. Hold it together. This is like the weakest episode of Jackass ever the ear wax

oh wait so the pinna the earlobe is there any other parts out there what's the hole he said the hole and what's this little thing that sticks out right here this little thing bonus question like a very quick bonus question what does the pinna do? The pinna right here, I don't know, like you

said, holds your glasses. The curve bit at the top, it captures the sound and funnels it back down into the hole. Why does it need to have patterns on it? Patterns? I don't know.

Why isn't it just like a scoop? Like, okay. Oh, it would have something to do with dust. It would be something to do with keeping things out of there. Hmm. Well, you don't know? You just wanted the answer?

He's not a doctor yet. This is the one thing keeping him from being a doctor. No, no. the thing is, Pena actually helps you figure out whether a sound is coming from the top or from the bottom of your head. So like, just imagine, if a sound is like coming directly from in front of you,

but from the top, like it's equidistant from both your ears how would you know that it's coming from the top and not the bottom so it will does that help with surround sound as well so you know something's behind you spatial audio yes because yeah because i'm always amazed like when you're playing like call of duty and i can hear someone walking behind me and then they're walking to my left or they're walking to my right and you know what i mean like you know i'm like it's pretty cool how they can do that because the speaker is just still on one side yeah yeah they're just like a bunch of tiny speakers in the headset that do that

that'd be my guess no they're normal earphones yeah you can do it on those headphones like you can do like a sound from the back or sound from the front that is because your head like the human head like it human head like it filters the sound before it goes into your ear for example if there's something happening at the back like your head will filter it and then it will go through your ear and like that filtering like you have learned that filtering over your lifetime so you can only listen to like sounds from the back or like figure out that something's making a sound from like at your back through your own head you have only learned the transfer function of your own head like you cannot like swap heads and like do it um so so that's the thing so we've learned

what our head does now is this an urban myth or is this the case because i have a baby at the moment and i will have for another year or so um you get rid of it yeah it just won't be it won't have a baby at the moment and I will have for another year or so. Can you get rid of it? Yeah, it just won't be a baby. Yeah. It won't be a baby. But, okay, so you put babies where the shushing sound comes from and all that sort of stuff. So you put them with the white noise and it's meant to replicate them being

in the womb and the blood flow going around them. Is that correct or is that just an urban legend? So I just know that babies like a white noise in general. Like they just become calm. I'm not exactly sure whether it's because it mimics the womb, uh, but could be. Yeah. Well, there's only one way to do it. Get a camera and put it up there.

So I'm sure some doctor's microphone yeah oh yeah probably be better oh no no I was thinking like a GoPro GoPro sport

we talked about the bones ossicles or the little hairs in the ears Jim said I think that was I don't know what they do yeah that's

so ossicles are actually the three bones the middle ear bones. Ah, okay. Did you think I got that right? Yeah, I did. I got it right. What does eustachian tube do?

Jim didn't know. So, eustachian tube is a tube that connects your middle ear. So, like, so you have your eardrum, right? So, after the eardrum, there's like that empty space there. So the tube connects that space to your nasal cavity, actually. So whenever you have cold, you hear differently. Yeah. Whenever you get off an airplane, your eustachian tube sort of clogs.

Sometimes, have you like felt that pain in your ears? Oh, yeah. sometimes have you have you like felt that pain in your ears oh yeah yeah so that's because your u-station tube got uh like blocked because of like the air pressure difference and um like you just hear differently like do you remember how you like hear after you get off a plane like you only hear like low frequencies the volumes lower down you hear. You hear very weirdly. That's because the eustachian tube. So like when your ears are popping, that's because of your eustachian tube. Yes, exactly. Is there anyone at 100 years old who still has good hearing?

Like I feel my hearing's worse now. And it might be because during COVID, everyone put up a plastic barrier for everything and they're wearing a mask. I'm not seeing the lips. But now I have to hold my ear up to the hole at the bank and go, what? And I never used to have to do that. I don't know if it's COVID or a permanent thing, but does it degenerate for – what I'm basically saying,

does it degenerate for everyone or is there still people – like you know you've got freaky people who've still got great eyesight where everyone else is getting glasses or is it the same sort of thing for everyone? Maybe someone in the wild who didn't get exposed to like any sound, some monk, I'm not sure. Maybe they might have like really good hearing. But for all of us living in this materialistic world, hearing sounds above 80 decibels very commonly. We just lose hearing over time as we age. And there's literally no way to get it back.

You can wear, for example, for your eyes, you can have a cataract operation. You can remove your cataract or you can change the lens or something. Can yelling hurt people? Can the human voice ever be loud enough to hurt someone's hearing? Yes. Really? You just said 80 decibels. That was an answer to another question. That's when hearing loss can start after 80 decibels. Yes. Could it happen

once off or would it need to be prolonged or what would happen there? Prolonged typically. Impulsive sounds for them to hamper your hearing, they need to be slightly above 95 or 100 hertz. So like gun gunshots firecrackers, things like that. Like mostly like people who use guns a lot, like one side of their, like one

year is usually like not there for any practical purpose, but if it happened once, would it, would it hurt it? Like would you, would you hurt it or is it, it needs to be prolonged? So it does. happen once would it would it hurt it like would you hurt it or is it needs to be prolonged so it does and the the scary part is if it does like for example if it forms say a hole in the eardrum or something if it damages the eardrum it stays like that for the rest of your life like there's no way to do anything to it like your eardrum just has another hole now like Like that's irreparable. And that's going to be from a gunshot. Yes.

So you can add that to your, how loud can a human speak in, in decibels? Uh, they can go up to like 90, 95. Um, but while some people can maybe shout higher, like, I don't know what the Guinea's book of world records gunshots at what decibel? It's like 115, 120. Right, right, right. Yeah, that'll do something. Yeah, you said 200, but yeah, much lower than that.

200 is too high. Yeah, 200, yeah. Cochlear is the hammer that hits the eardrum. That's what Jim said. No, I got that wrong. Yeah, cochlear is actually the inner ear. So that's where the vibrations finally come and it breaks the sound down

into different frequency bins. So like low frequency, high frequency, middle frequency and things like that. And it converts the mechanical vibrations into electrical impulses that can travel through your auditory nerves to your brain because your brain only understands electricity.

It doesn't understand mechanical vibrations. So it's the conversion to get to your brain and that's how then your brain processes the sound. Yes. Okay, because that was another question. That's how it communicates to the brain. And then what part of the brain processes the sound? So it goes to the auditory cortex.

So cortex is essentially the outer layer of your brain. Like the, it's the thing actually that you see when you see a brain diagram, like you, you see those weird shapes, right? So that's like the cortex on like, uh,

outside the brain. And, uh, in that cortex, actually just close to the ear here. Um, like, uh, you have the auditory cortex on both sides.

So wearing headphones makes your hearing bad, they reckon, if you wear headphones too much, right? Yes. So, okay, so I wear headphones a lot because I'm doing this and also on airplanes all the time and all those. Well, wearing a, what's the bloody uh hearing aid will a hearing aid because that's a headphone that's in your ear all the time so the person has to have it because they have bad hearing does that actually make their hearing worse in the long term so if it's tuned to the correct intensities i would say no but um like it will uh but it will definitely

hamper your hearing further and you need to like because the point is you have a choice either you don't hear things or like your hearing gets like you're already worse. Like bad hearing gets slightly worse. So like it's that kind of a choice. My wife says I don't hear things. Does marriage make your hearing work? Selective hearing. Yeah. So that's a dangerous question.

There's the old joke about a guy and he's driving along in his car and then the police pull him up and they say, do you know that your wife fell out of the car 10 miles ago and he goes oh thank god i thought i went deaf yesterday we were talking about um so i recently got bone conduction headphones that are good for underwater um and so what it does is they sit right in front of your ear and it vibrates you know your jaw is that something that may become more would that be better for the degradation of your hearing um as opposed to putting something inside your ear or right above it like putting it in your jaw instead would that make it degrade less so i would say not by much okay because at the end of the day what happens is like your eardrum will vibrate um like the sound will go through the middle ear it will go to the cochlea all that

stays the same gotcha the only difference is instead of the vibrations so how does a headphone work the membrane of a headphone vibrates the air next to it vibrates then the air makes your eardrum vibrate so that goes away with this bone conduction and you directly vibrate your jaws and that makes the eardrum vibrate right so that's just how do people go deaf in one ear and not both ears because yeah you must be so close to the sound why would my brother yeah my brother went deaf in one ear but he had like vertigo he had like vertigo and then like lost his hearing it was an event that happened yeah so that also happened so you can actually lose your hearing to um

many diseases so that so for example there's a lot of like stochastic uh stochasticity randomness like involved in this for example you have chickenpox and one ear just tends to have more chickenpox than the other and like that makes you lose hearing in one year or something so like that can totally happen um and like that's disease-based like you're not even wearing headphones but one day you have like severe chickenpox and like poof you have like hearing loss scary all right um that was a bunch of questions we just answered there but there this one can you shut your ears off jim said he wished he could but you can't do that right yes so 10 marks for that because uh you can shut your eyes you can decide not to like

well smell also probably you can't really shut uh But I would say ears, like even when you're sleeping, you are hearing. You're not processing the sound in the same way, but your eardrum is still vibrating. The signals are still going to the brain. So you're always hearing. Okay, so you become nose blind to something, right? So you can get used to a smell and then it ceases to smell. Can there be a sound that's constant in your life and you just stop hearing it?

Yeah, other than the wife, which Jim might have more experience for, but it's not technically possible. I had the same question as a 12-year-old. I distinctly remember this. I thought, what if... Well, I'm 45, so I'm a bit behind. So what if I play a sound and it just plays forever?

Will I just stop hearing it? I think that's just you getting hearing loss from constantly listening to something. Right, so Billy Joel, he can always hear Uptown Girl. No matter how many times he plays it. It's good for him. Great't start the fire yeah it's a fun song it is a great song um and then besides hearing what else do ears do he said keep your glasses on he's a school i know balance is one of them and that's like messing with me right now i

think my hair oh that's right yeah yeah the balance because there's the fluids in your ears right is that why i heard that that's why because all the fluid goes to one side of your head, then you roll over in bed, so it goes to the other side of your head, and that's meant to be an evolutionary thing to stop you from getting bed sores. So your ears tell you when to roll over. Is that bullshit?

That could be true. Actually, I don't know about that, but I know that that's why when the ballet dancers turn like turned really fast they stop and then turn again and then they stop and then turn again they don't just keep on turning uh constantly yeah okay and the ice skaters too i was thinking about that too like what's going on with this like that yeah yeah yeah the turn turn yeah okay you got a spot yeah but that's it's the fluid in yours right because i have this balancing issue right or this like kind of and i and that's the last thing i'm going to check is my ears we're worried that forrest will never skateboard again

well that's already happened it's a lot of reasons for that um so what's happening with your balance i've been away. I don't know. Have you been falling over all the time? I'm not falling over, but I feel like I'm going to, like I have to like, sometimes I touch stuff to study and I'm not falling over, but it's just kind of like, it's not good. And I did all this blood work and all this stuff. Everything's fine.

So the ears is the next thing we're looking at now, but stay tuned podcast listeners for the next one. Okay. We did that one one we did this one um what oh cause of someone that's deaf we did talk about that so that's what happens in the ear that's deaf the cochlea goes bad or is that is that yeah so there are multiple types of hearing loss uh so there's like sense i think it's called like sensory neural hearing loss. That happens like when the inner ear gets damaged or the auditory nerve.

So that the inner ear as in like the cochlea. So when that goes bad, like you get this type of hearing loss and there are cochlear implants, as Jim said, that like is a very active area of research. We also do some research on that. Like how do you make an implant that like replaces the natural cochlea that's

just gone bad um and just to tell you how far we've gotten with that um anyone with cochlear implant they can just hear beats and music they cannot appreciate music so like we're that off from actual hearing yeah but we've come a long way since like those old days where they just put like a gramophone horn in their ear, you know, and they just put the horn in their ear. And then like the hearing aids and then it used to be someone that you have to have a thing hanging around your neck. We had a couple of deaf kids at my school and what they would do is the teacher would have to wear a microphone around their neck

and then they would wear special headphones and all this type of stuff. around their neck and then they wear special headphones and all this type of stuff um so can you foresee a day where we could just like an ear transplant or just an electronic ear that's just as good so that's the goal um that's what we try to do we first try to understand like how so the biggest roadblock right now is that we can't really open up a human's ear like that because it's really well protected in the skull. So you need to break open the skull to actually look at the cochlea of a living human. And like for obvious moral reasons,

like you can't just do that for research. You can't just break open someone's skull. You can't do that. You can do that on a condyver though, right? You can do that on a dead body, right? Yeah. So we can do that break open someone's skull and like, You can't do that. You can do that on a condyver though. Right. You can do that on a dead body. Right. Yeah.

So we can do that, but then like, that's not a functioning cochlea anymore. Right. So that's like, we need to look at a cochlea that's actually doing what it's doing while it's doing it. Right. Um, but the thing is we try to circumvent that by modeling, like by doing a bunch of math and like by seeing like what's really in the cochlea and what might be happening when it's functioning and like yeah

we're we're not that far away um but like augmenting human hearing using these kind of implants uh we still have a long way to go uh maybe like 20 30 years would do it but like definitely not in like five years. Okay. Well, that's, that's me done. All right. Um, I think one more. Yeah. What is the McGurk effect? Jim said someone McDonald's. I think that's wrong.

It's the McGurkin. Hmm. Nice. Um, so, uh, so yeah, this one is like, um like this is a human perception thing so have you seen that viral video where one person says ba but you hear fa

if like they replace the video with the same song I've seen those ones where they say what do you hear like green lantern or something yeah Laurel and Yanni. Yeah. Yanni and what was it? Laurel.

Laurel and Yanni. Laurel and Yanni. Yeah. Yeah. Yanni. Laurel. I was hearing Yanni. But then you can make yourself hear the other one if you want to.

Yes. I couldn't. Actually, that happens. That's close to McGurk effect, but McGurk effect is like a cross-modal thing where like you're seeing someone speak. So as Jim said, like we have masks over us during the pandemic period. So we couldn't look at people's mouth when they were speaking. So it was difficult to understand what they were saying

because we also use visual cues to speech. So McGurk effect is just sort of exploiting that and showing that if the sounds of two wobbles are like close by and the video shows the person saying a particular wobble, like you'll hear that wobble instead of the actual wobble. So like if you play a, so if you just hear the sound, like close your eyes,

you'll only hear bah, bah, bah. But the moment you open your eyes, you only hear ba ba ba but the moment you open your eyes you'll hear fa fa fa and you'll actually hear it it's like it's an illusion but your brain will be like yes obviously this person is saying fa it's not ba that makes sense on comedy because sometimes people say stuff and you're on stage and you can't see them and you hear something different oh yeah yeah yeah and then sometimes I think someone's talking, I'm like,

is that person on that one? And then they say something, I'm like, I can't hear him. And then I got that. We've all seen the standup comedians who have done the routine where, uh, you play a song and they put up what the lyrics they think is being said.

And when they put them up in front of you, you hear that lyrics as well. But it's even like the, you play the Beatles backwards or whatever you hear, Paul is dead. But you only hear it after someone tells you it's Paul is dead. And then all of a sudden, Paul is dead. Oh, yeah. You sent the video to us

with the Merkirk effect. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We got all the questions? We're all done. We got the dinner party fact. There's a part of time of the show where our expert gives us one fact, obscure or interesting, something our audience're all done. We got the dinner party fact. This is the part of the time of the show where our expert gives us

one fact, obscure, interesting, something our audience can use to impress people at a dinner party, a bar, whatever. What do you got for us, Vin? So I already gave everyone, so I had two.

So one was that like, everyone thinks they have a heavier voice than what they actually have. Yeah. It's because we listen through our voice, through our jawbones and not through like ears yeah that was kelly's question and another one is the human ear is more sensitive

than any microphone that we have ever made and what i mean by sensitive in this case is like the dynamic range like we can listen to like the quietest of the sounds and the loudest of the sounds so no microphone can does like this range better than us, like this decibel range better than us. So, so why can't they, why don't they make a microphone better than I just can't make it. It's not impossible.

Because we just don't know how exactly the year works. That's why our lab exists. Yeah. Yeah. We're the best. Um, well, Vin, thanks for being here again. Uh, That's why our lab exists. Yeah. We're the best. We're number one. Well, Vin, thanks for being here again. If you want to follow Vin on Twitter, it's at Vin underscore Agarwal.

And Instagram is at Vinayak.agarwal. And website is Vinayak-agarwal.com. We'll put all those on so you can see them on YouTube and anywhere you listen to it. And I just followed you on Instagram. You do some of your music on there. It looks like, right? Yes. I also do my music on YouTube.

The link is through the website. So go check out Vin's music and support him on social sites there. And I'm going to check it out since you, you know, you talked about it. And yeah, I think that's about it. Thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks for being on the show, Vin. If you're ever at a party. Thanks for being on the show, Vin. If you're ever at a party and someone comes up to you and says, you don't know what the McGurk effect is. It's McGurk. Yeah. And that's good. I don't know about that.

He's done it. Walk away.