I Don't Know About That - The Stanford Prison Experiment

Episode Date: August 2, 2022

In this episode, the team discusses The Stanford Prison Experiment with writer of the film "The Stanford Prison Experiment", Tim Talbott. Follow Tim on Twitter @TFTalbott and on Instagram @Dim_Dalba ! Our merch store is now live! Go to idontknowaboutthat.com for shirts, hoodies, mugs, and more! Subscribe to our Patreon at patreon.com/IDKAT for ad free episodes, bonus episodes, and more exclusive perks! Tiers start at just $2! Go to JimJefferies.com to buy tickets to Jim's upcoming tour, The Moist Tour.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Okay. All the king's horses, all the king's men, couldn't put Humpty back together again. Who or what was Humpty and what did they do? You might find out, and I don't know about that, with me. Okay. Was he an egg? There's a lot of conjecture on this. He was like an egg man.

I don't think he was an egg man. I think it was like some other thing. I think it was like a child that they all, you know, beat the shit out of or something. That was like a metaphor? Yeah, and then the history was like, oh, he was a cracked egg or something like that. But he obviously wasn't an egg man.

That's ridiculous. I never thought about what he did, like a job? And why were the horses trying to put him back together again? Yeah, they don't even have opposable thumbs. You can't do shit with hoofs. No, no, with an egg you can because they can stomp on him and then make like an egg mache. So you're saying they broke him down even more to make him

into a paste to remold him. Exactly. Oh, yeah, that's probably how you do it. You wouldn't just piece the shell together. Yeah, you can't. This says, according to several war historians, the original Humpty Dumpty was not an egg not a chicken not a man but a cannon yes a large cannon which was believed to have been used in English Civil War Humpty Dumpty I don't get that sat on a wall Humpty Dumpty had a great fall and then you're

yeah they all tried to put him together again the horses were involved I think it'd be easier to put an egg back together than a cannon. Yeah. If you're just a little bit off of the cannon, the ball doesn't shoot out, blows up in your face. Yeah, there's no way you can put an eggshell back together, especially if it's an ant man. We just discussed how you can do it. I just don't think it's possible. I don't believe it.

It's possible. I looked it up. You can't put the paste back in the tube, right? On Patreon, let's crack an egg and try to put the eggs back together. There actually was a bird's egg that got knocked out of a nest outside my door, just splattered all over the steps. It was really sad. Does anyone else get a little bit...

I get a little bit of joy when a bird flies into the plane. Into a window. I don't know why I shouldn't. As long as I don't die... Yeah, as long as I don't die, it's a bit of your house? Yeah, like as long as I don't die. It's a bit of adventure for the day. You're watching telly and poof, and you're like,

I have some clean ass windows, man. You feel real proud of yourself. They die a lot from that, though. No, no. I don't like it when they die. Concussions. I just like it when they're really, really hurt. When they get up and they shake their head a bit.

When they commit suicide in the parking lot years later from all the headaches. You remember that happening at school though? You'd be in school and then like a magpie would just fly into a window. That's like good fun. I feel like I've told the story on this podcast about when a bird flew into a window and I was sleeping outside and

thought I was going to have to kill it to put it out. You were sleeping inside? I was sleeping outside. Why were you sleeping outside? I was going to have to kill it to put it out. You were sleeping inside. I was sleeping outside. Why were you sleeping outside? I was at a party. And so we slept outside and I was with this guy that I had a crush on. We didn't have sex, don't worry. Another homeless person.

Yeah, another homeless person. And a bird flew into the window and it was like really struggling and he was still asleep. And I was like, oh no, I feel like I should put this bird out of its misery. But then I was like, if he wakes up and I'm like smashing this bird with a baseball bat, that's going to look really bad. You're meant to put them into like a brown paper bag or something. We did an episode on birds, didn't we?

You're meant to, when they do that, you put them in a bag so that they feel like they can adjust to the darkness. Did we cover that? I don't know. We didn't get everything on birds. I know that. Well, I got some gigs coming up. Is Hawaii happened yet?

Nope. Hawaii. This week. Come out to Maui. There's only a few tickets left. Maui and Honolulu. And then I'll be at the Mirage Casino. August 5th, Maui.

August 6th, Honolulu. That's this week. And then I'm going straight from Hawaii, straight into Vegas. I've got a tough couple of weeks, me. Yeah. Poor guy. Yeah, I got the good stuff coming. And then I'm doing like a casino in Palm Springs.

What's the casino? So August 12th and 13th, you'll be at the Mirage in Las Vegas. And then August 26th, you'll be at the ABA Amphitheater in Tucson, Arizona. Yes. And then the 27th of August, Agua Caliente. Caliente. Casino and spa. You know what that means?

It means welcome. It means hot. Hot water. Is it Spanish? Oh, I thought it might be Indian. No, no. It sounds Indian. I don't know.

I'm welcome. To the Spanish tribe that are having me there at their casino. That is a bad name, though. Hot water resort and casino spot. Hot water. It's like springs, I guess. You'll be in hot water when you spend all your money It's in Rancho Mirage out there like Palm Springs Yeah I might even duck out to the Palm Springs house

For a couple of days And we can play some golf after the game What do you reckon about that? What do you reckon about that? And then I'm going to go In September I'm going off to London for a wedding And I'm going to pop up somewhere I'm going to go in September. I'm going off to London for a wedding, and I'm going to pop up somewhere.

Ooh, fun. I'm going to pop up at some club. Be on the lookout, September. Yeah, I'll tell you where I'm going, the comedy store. I'm going to the comedy store. Here's the time. This is the thing. So the comedy store.

I said, can I come on? Like, I did the O2 last time I was in London, so I'm going back to a club. But it's my favorite comedy club in the whole wide world. And so I said, can I come and do a gig there on one of the nights? And they went, all right, well, you'll be a secret pop in. I was like, no, I want my 200 pounds and I want to be on the bill. I want to be on the bill like everybody else.

I want to be middling or something like that. I'm looking forward to it. I'm going to relive my 20s for a day. I've told my wife to stay home. I said, I'm going around the comedy clubs by myself on the tube. That'll be fun. Yeah, I'm not going with anyone else. I'm just going to pop in and see people and just go.

I'm not even telling anyone I'm going. That sounds great. I'm going to look at Time Out magazine and see what favorite comics I'm going to play in what comedy club. I'm just going to pop over that club and then that club and just like me 20s. I'm looking forward to it. Good thing this podcast only gets like 150,000 listeners.

Yeah, yeah. Keep it a secret. Yeah, no, no. They don't know the date. They don't know the date. I haven't told you the date. September. You know what September means?

Yeah, September means September. It means welcome. Do they say the months different in Spanish? Do you say them different? Yeah, I just said it. You don't know. Yeah, say the months different in Spanish? Do you say them different? Yeah, I just said it. You don't know. Yeah, say the months, Luis. You like different from English?

Yes. Yeah. Inero. Different language. I'll say the English month. You say the Spanish month for Jim. January. Inero.

February. February. March. Febrero. Get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here. You're making this up. You're a macho.

Sombrero? That'd be September, yeah. They are all very similar. I can do them all, I think. All right, March. Is it Marzo? Yep. Macho Libre.

Abril. May. Mayo days. I think it's Mayo. It's Mayo. Mayo, Juno, Julio. Junio. Augusto.

Septiembre. Augusto. October, November. That's a guy's Mayo. Mayo, Juneau, Julio. Junio. Augusto. September. Augusto. October, November. That's a guy's name. But Enero. They're all very similar. December. I've never understood why certain countries call themselves something different in their

own country and then in English it's something else. It's like- They don't call themselves something different. That's what they call themselves and then we call them something different. No, no, no. The Germans ask us to call them German and then they call themselves Deutschland. They still call themselves and then we call them something. No, no, no. The Germans asked us to call them German and they call themselves Deutschland. They still call themselves Germans. I think we botched the translation

and just had to live with it. No, I'll call you Deutschland. If you call you... You say what you want to be called. I'm that tolerant of you. I agree. We should do that. And then like Holland, you got too many names. Holland, Denmark. Dutch.

What's the Netherlands? And another another one they got another one dutch dutch they call themselves dutch the netherlands that's just what they call themselves but the country is either holland or the netherlands are they two separate countries i always forget no they're the same country holland and the netherlands are the same same place same place three different people why would they do that to us I know and that's all the countries I can think about that do it but do the Japan call themselves Japan or do they have some other name for themselves

I'm sure there's a Japanese translation I'm sure it's spelt differently I'm sure they're using some of their characters that's what you gotta say about the Asians they've got a lot of characters letter wise well tell us it's Australia and gotta say about the Asians. They've got a lot of characters. Letter-wise. Tell us it's Australia and you say Straya.

No, it's because people say America. Damn right. The Japanese names for Japan are Nippon and Nihon. N-I-P-P-O-N and characters. And then Nihon. Spain and España.

They call themselves España. Well, in Nihon. Spain and España. They call themselves España. Troublemakers. Is Mexico just Mexico? Or is it Mexico? I think there's an accent on the E, but that's about as crazy as it gets. That is pretty wild. If I say Mexico, do I sound racist saying Mexico?

You sound racist? mexico you sound racist yeah no i mean no or do i sound like somebody who's like traveled a bit and there's a bit of a white you sound very traveled no no you don't sound like you're traveling back in my day when i was in mexico it actually is really annoying when people like pop into accents like i think tommy cabrio has talked about this he gets really annoyed when waiters. Was it you? I don't know. Yeah, he talks about that too.

He's upset with Tommy Caprio because Tommy Caprio would go, mozzarella. Formage. Tommy Caprio, he does that though. He does the, oh no, you got to have the bubba do do. He does the eat gabagool. He really leans into his Italian self. Gabagool, yeah. You know what gabagool is?

It's a meal or something. No, I think it's prosciutto. It's capicola. I'd like to do it. I got butchered to gabagool. Really? Yeah, I'd like to do a scene with like a couple of mafia bosses where they're talking shit about each other.

And then one of them gets like a good fellow scene. One of them gets shot and they can say terrible things about their wives and this and that and they're short, they're ugly or whatever. But the one that gets the guy shot is, your mother's sauce tastes like ass. Hold me back. Hold me back.

What did you say about my mother's sauce? It's disgusting. Her gravy, it tastes like ass. Don't forget about our Instagram. I just ate a pretzel for some reason, so I can't talk. For some reason. It flew into your mouth. I have an open bag next to you.

I saw your mitt reach in there. I shouldn't be eating when I'm by the doghouse. Unbeknownst to me, I've just started digesting cum from this alleyway. I don't know how it got in my mouth. One second it wasn't there,

the next. IDCat podcast on Instagram and the store. I don't know about that dot com and then we've got our Patreon patreon.com slash IDCat. We're back doing the Patreon. The Patreon's back. It was away while I was in Australia. I know that's why there's the hot weather in england and all these things bad are happening

environmentally but the uh they should be balanced to the force right now oh and i have a new podcast too with dave williamson called the mermen podcast the mermen like they're mermaids but they're mermen we're men that's right that's right we're like mermaids but men yeah that's good there's a lot of fetish of mermen fetish online. Really? They wouldn't have penises though. Yeah, that's the thing. I used to do a joke about it with mermaids. How do you have sex with a mermaid?

You have to ask her to lay some eggs in the corner and go jerk off on them. That's funny. They probably have like cloacas. They don't. I looked it up. He's a marine biologist. He would know. Yeah, yeah.

I studied mermaids. At least with a mermaid you got blowjobs and titty fucks and then with a mermaid you still get blowjobs and with you and David

you still get titty fucks mostly me Dave's in a little bit better shape than all the barbecue eats he's a future tit fuck wait and have it calls it a brisket squeeze brisket squeeze

I'm going to have to tell him that IDK okay please welcome our guest today Tim Talbot G'day Tim now it's time to play what's happening Now it's time to pay. It's happening.

I can't hear my headphone. I heard it. Do it in post. It'll work out. All right. So Tim's got a keyboard in his room. He's also in a house with a slanted roof. You're going to have to ask him questions. But this is a very specific subject,

which I like doing on this podcast because you learn a lot, but it's something. You're going to have to ask him some questions. Is your topic broccoli? Not today. Have you got to do with farming? Nothing to do with farming. Why farming?

Why not? We haven't done much farming. I know, but I don't know what it's like to do it. Farming covers a lot of things, man. So what do you farm? All right. So, okay. So it's nothing to do with farming.

You got to do with medicine. No. This is something that was, this is a specific thing that happened. What? It was like a real event that, well. You're not supposed to tell them when. I didn't hear it. I didn't hear it. I wasn't paying attention.

An event that happened. Yeah. It was an experiment. It was a very famous experiment. Did you create COVID? Right there. Unfortunately, no. He'd be so rich.

It was an experiment uh experiment experiments it wasn't a natural disaster or something like that uh it was an experiment that happened the something something experiment that's what we're talking about something something experiment yeah yeah i don't know any of them can you can you name any colleges in northern california yeah yeah what's that what they call this they call this college the something experiment. Yeah. I don't know any of them. Can you, can you name any colleges in Northern California? Yeah. Yeah. What's the, what they call this?

They call this college, the, the, the Harvard of the West, I believe. The Harvard of the West, Berkeley. Not close.

Nope. Right there, right there, right near that. You're right up there near Berkeley. Oh, um, uh,

yeah. Mascots a tree. Um, Oregon. It's Stanford, mascots a tree. Oregon State. It's Stanford. Stanford, Connecticut. I said Northern California. He said Oregon State.

Stanford blank experiment. Have you ever heard of anything like that? No. Where do you go when you commit a crime? Jail. What's the other word for it? First of all, I go to Forrest's house. Hide this gun.

Yeah, yeah. Forrest has shovels and no one knows why. Doesn't have a garden. I used to. It's the Stanford Prison Experiment. Oh, yes. And was this the one where they made some people prisoners and some people not prisoners and they found out the people

who were the guards were actually bastards? Do you know about this? If a person's put, I've never heard of it. Okay. people not prisoners, and they found out the people who were the guards were actually bastards. You know about this. I've never heard of it. Okay. Tim Talbot has been a writer of film and television for over 20 years. His credits include the film The Stanford Prison Experiment, which won the Waldo Salt Screenwriting Award

at the 2015 Sundance Film Festival. Where is that award? It's downstairs. I'm in the Waldo. Is it all hidden hidden i have to mention i might talk about this on the patreon but and also tim wrote on tv on the tv shows um medium chicago fire and south park and uh you can find him on twitter at tft a l b o t t which isFTALBOT and on Instagram at DIM underscore DALBA

which sounds like somebody else's Instagram it doesn't even have any of the letters DIM underscore DALBA I don't know so follow him on there and yeah can you tell us a little bit about how this without giving away anything on the Stanford prison experiment that Jim seems to know about

anyways how you got to this um and what like how did you why did you get interested in it like what led you to oh um basically a friend of mine was working for a production company and um they wanted to hire another friend of ours to write this project but they couldn't afford him so my friend basically said look um let's just have tim write it and if he fucks it up i'll come in and fix it um but initially it was it was like it was something that was proposed to me that i just thought was complete and utter bullshit until i did the research and then it was fascinating to me okay um all right great no it has to be questions man i'm ready to go are you ready yeah i'm ready to go all right tim so you know all of it even though you didn't know that okay

tim we're gonna ask jim serious questions about the stanford prison experiment which i don't think a lot of people know about i didn't and um except for jim does and at the end of them answering these questions you're gonna grade them zero through ten ten being the best in accuracy kelly's gonna grade grade them on confidence. I'm going to grade them on et cetera. We'll put them all together, add them all together. If you score 21 through 30, Stanford Prison Experiment. That's what we're talking about, as you know about it.

11 through 20, the Arizona State Jail Analysis. Not as popular. Zero through 10, ITT Tech Incarceration Investigation. Where's Stanford and Sons? I didn't go with the Stanfordford route yeah i would have gone with that yeah stanford and son come on question okay what was the stanford prison experiment what they did was they got a group of students because you can do anything with them students i've talked about this on stage you what you do is you experiment on mice then you do a few things

then you get up to primates, and then you go students. Homeless people, students, then us, right? So you can pay students 50 bucks and say, hey, you guys like weed and partying all the time, need 50 bucks? And they're like, do I? And then they're like, we're going to do an experiment, and they're all up for it, right? And so what you did is I think it was all men.

I don't think it was men and women, but it might have been men and women because that wouldn't be a real prison. But I'll say it's all men. I don't think it was men and women, but it might have been men and women because that wouldn't be a real prison. But I'll say it's all men for the sake of this argument. And they put some as prisoners and some as prison guards, and they watched to see how they interacted with each other. They put them in two different coloured outfits as well. So it was a bit of a us versus them type of thing, and then they could find out if power corrupts or not

or whether people take on the guise of being a prisoner or whether that teaches them to do more crime or that teaches them to be bullies or whatever. Okay. That's good. We'll start those with more specific questions. When did it occur? This occurred in the mid-'90s.

Who was the psychologist in charge of the experiment? All right. Ted worthington not just the name he made up no famous psychologist famous psychologist google it later okay what what does zimbardo say the point of his study is zimbardo zimbardo zimbardo is that a guy that's what it's his study it It's Worthington's student. That was the answer to the last question. Okay, so Zimbardo. Yeah, Zimbardo. That's like El Bato.

Professor Zimbardo. Philip Zimbardo. Philly Zim. Yeah. Philly Zim. What was the point of his study? I'd get out of the house. What was the jail like?

What did it look like? It was a pretty bog state. It was a white jail, more like an insane asylum type of a jail, white walls and stuff like that, pretty basic rooms. Do you know where they built it or anything? They built it in a – there was a big tower block at the university they were going to demolish, and they said, wait, wait, wait, before you demolish it,

we're going to do an experiment on prison in this one how were guards outfitted to really look like guards uh it was mostly swastikas and you know like like real real guard looking type of stuff helmets with big points on the top of them a big g on the front of them that said guard, a name tag that's like, my name is none of your fucking business. How much were they paid, the students? The students would be paid 50 bucks a day. What role did Zimbardo- In the 90s, that was a lot of money. That was like 70 bucks today.

Holy crap. What role did Zimbardo play in the experiment? Besides running the experiment, what was his role? Zimbardo was the lot of money. That was like 70 bucks today. Holy crap. What role did Zimbardo play in the experiment besides running the experiment? What was his role? Zimbardo was the governor. Governor, okay. Yeah. And how did they make sure the prisoners felt like prisoners before they even entered their cells? Shackles.

Okay, that's it. Yeah, and they would have shaved their heads, washed them down, given them the soap and the outfits and all type of stuff, made them line up in a line, given them law and order before they got to the cells would have been the way to break them down and to make them feel less as individuals by giving them an outfit and the same haircut. What is a degradation process? It's where you, it's like hazing where you degrade someone so much until they break down like breaking a wild stallion in a thing. You don't just jump on the cunt's back.

I thought you were going to say my life. No, you don't jump on the horse's back. First of all, you go, what a long face, fuck face. What is de-individuation? De-individuation is taking away your individuality to make you part of a core group. Okay. What did the prisoners do on day two to quote, stir things up? Um, uh, they bashed their trays up and down and they sang, we will rock you.

Okay. What were some of the mean things the guards did in response to the rebellion and to assert their power over the prisoners rape why'd you answer it like that i just knew the answer how did the guards experiment went well wrong and that's it that happens in prison the guards do it it happens statistically that prison episode statistically that happens in prisons they would have done things like lights out and stop at you and all that type of stuff. You're not getting a little rock hammer.

You're not getting a poster of Rita Hayworth. How did the guards break solidarity of the prisoners as a group after the disobedient behavior of a prisoner? How did they break solidarity? Oh, they would have thrown him in the hole. Thrown him in the hole. And then when and why does the experiment end? It ends when all the information we need has gone in, but it ended.

This particular one. Oh, it ended when one of them broke out. Okay. What are the ethical problems with this experiment? You're mistreating people, even though they've signed on for it. Okay. What are the ethical problems with this experiment? You're mistreating people, even though they've signed on for it. I imagine that any time they could ask to leave, I guess, there would have to be that. The ethical problems is, oh, I don't see any problem with it.

Okay. How many days was the experiment supposed to last and how many days did it it was meant to last six days and it went on for three weeks okay and then how do the results of this experiment relate to ideas we have been exploring recently because um does is is should we do punishment over rehabilitation? Does punishing a person make them a better person rather than rehabilitating a person? So when you put criminals in there and you just tell them they're bad and all that type of stuff and they come out and they recommit crimes, have they learned anything in prison except for, I don't want to go back there, which isn't enough

for them really. They haven't built any skills or anything. We're good right there. All right. How did he do, Tim? Zero through ten. Ten being the best on his knowledge of the Stanford prison experiment. It's hard to gauge because overall the things that you were saying were in the ballpark of correct, but in terms

of some of the finer points and details, I would probably say a six. I'm going to call my next special the ballpark of correct. That's pretty good. How are you doing confidence? He's very confident. I mean, he was so confident on the rape answer that I'm going to give him a 10.

Thank you. Yeah, he was very confident. I know he got a lot of them wrong, like Tim was saying. But you were very confident. Bullpock of correct. That's 16. I'm just going to give you two two so you're at 18 arizona state jail analysis nice looking women there yeah yeah but not in the jail well well it's an analysis we'll say um all right tim so that's what was the stanford prison experiment group of students because you can do anything with them um all men some prisoners were some

in some regards, watch to see how they interact us versus them. Like what. That you were, you were really in the ballpark there. Basically they chose 18 kids all. They were all profiled to be like normal, healthy, American young men. And then with the flip of the coin, they were chosen to be either a guard or a prisoner and um and yeah it was all men uh some of them were university students at stanford during the summer uh and some of them

were just people in the neighborhood oh they're all students yeah they weren't all students okay and then when did it occur uh august of 1971 the mid 90s August of 1971. The mid-90s. 1971. 1971? Yeah. You couldn't do this experiment in the 90s. They'd already changed the ethics laws so that you couldn't do it.

Yeah. 70s, you can do whatever you want. Yeah, yeah. I miss those experiments that you just do. Like in Sweden, there was this whole thing in Sweden where they were going, we don't know if sugar rots your teeth. We all assume it does, but no one's ever done tests. And so they gave sugar to a whole lot of mentally challenged people

and they went, we were right. Oh, my God. Jeez. Can't do that anymore. No. Wait until their teeth fell out and they went, yep, sugar definitely does it. Jesus Christ.

Couldn't we have just taken our hunch? Yeah. Or just taken one definitely does it. Jesus Christ. Couldn't we have just taken our hunch? Yeah. Or just taken one tooth? Yeah. Who was the psychologist in charge of the experiment? Not Ted Worthington? No, it was Philip Zimbardo. Ted Worthington did the other one about the thing.

I think that's the guy from, what's that movie? I was talking about Sam Worthington from Avatar. From Avatar, yeah. Okay, I was close. Ted Worthington from Avatar. From Avatar, yeah. Okay, I was close. Ted Worthington's brother gets no acting work. So what does Zimbardo say the point of his study was? So what was the point, yeah? Well, the point was that Jim was really close there.

That basically he wanted to see how institutional forces affected the individual. Hold on one second. Before you keep going, Jim said to get out of the house. That was his answer. Yeah, and then I elaborated. He elaborated on it. But also it would have been to get out of the house because that's what happens.

Like he doesn't do this experiment because he's fucking busy. He does this experiment because I've got to get a grant somewhere. Fucking my wife's bothering me. Let's lock some kids up in prison. That's how you get to these things. All right. I'm sorry. I mean, they're right.

But so keep going to the point of the study. Oh, yeah. So the point is basically to show how institutional forces affect an individual and that, you know, essentially it goes together with all those other things about dehumanization and deindividualization. I think I just choked on my own tongue. individualization. I think I just choked on my own tongue. But yeah, the whole point was to see how, how the individual reacts to the system, you know, and having all the rights taken away from them and, and, and just the, the, the sort of imbalance of power that exists in situations like a prison.

Yeah. That, I don't think we asked that question, but where would he get that? Do you have to apply for a grant for this and then somebody fund it? He actually got funded from a bunch of different sources, including the U.S. Navy. Wow. Yeah. The real big difference with this

experiment between... He's done dozens of experiments before this, but the... Well, you're going to ask this question in a minute. That's fine. You can jump ahead oh okay that um basically the only difference between this and the dozens of other experiments that he had done was the time span because this one was was an all-inclusive 24 hour a day um experiment that was going to last for was intended to last for uh two weeks and they had to close it down after six days.

So you got that exactly backwards. Oh, right, right, right. When you said it, I was like, yeah, that's pretty good. It was supposed to go six days, but they were enjoying prison so much they went for three weeks instead. They just went for three weeks. They loved being out of the house.

Keep it going. I reckon I'd be all right. In that, because there's not the violence, but then no one's beating each other up. Maybe they did. Maybe they did. We're learning. I don't know about that.

Was there shanks? Do you think that Tim would have written a movie about it if it was just like, and everything was fine? They loved it. They stayed three weeks, and everyone had a good time. So what was the jail like? Jim said it was an asylum insane asylum type white walls they built it in a very very similar to that it was basically a hallway um and three uh like

offices that were converted into prison cells and then across the hall there was a um a uh closet that basically they used as the hole and the whole thing was set up one end of the um one end of the hallway had a camera so they filmed all of this oh wow and yeah and so part of my research in doing this was watching 24 hours of actual videotape and transcribing it in order to get a feel of what this stuff was really like this is like big brother yeah yeah very much like that wait so how many hours you watched 20 24 of it or you were not all i mean all that they they had you know which was about 24 hours worth of footage okay how does it feel watching it like are it are there do you have feelings about like what's going on i i assume

you saw some fucked up shit right yeah and um i mean it was it was one thing i mean that was part of the thing that sold me on the project was watching that footage and just going like, wow, this is real. I mean, they really did. Over the course of these six days, they broke these kids. Yeah. I mean, they just broke them. And then the most surreal thing was stepping on the set

where they basically had measured the hallway and recreated it down to the last detail. And it was like stepping into the past. It was so bizarre. Wow. How were the guards outfitted to really look like guards jim said swastikas humbles with big points g stands for guard no not quite that extreme um they basically had khaki uh uniforms and uh the one thing they were all given and told to wear at all times were um dark sunglasses so as to project a a uniform like what jim says they all look like they're they're one force against the guard the uh prisoners you know and it also

dehumanized them to a bit so you know you saw a guy you never got to see his eyes yeah eye contact is big for like connection between humans so yeah that makes sense. And then how much were they paid per day? Jim said $50 a day. They were paid $15 a day, which in 1971 was a lot of money. It wasn't, though. It was for struggling

college kids. In today's money, it's $150, maybe. Yeah, do that for two weeks when you're a kid. Yeah, you're in college, you'd be happy with that. Happy with that now. I mean, I'm sure... I'd pay you more than that. They probably thought it was going to be easy,

so that's just easy money then. I'm sure they, you know, in retrospect, it's like, I would like a lot more money to be abused. I've done all sorts of things. I've always done all these focus groups, you know, where you go and try out a new Whopper and they give you like $25 or something. I did these days. I've always done all these focus groups where you go and try out a new Whopper and they give you like $25 or something.

I've always hated it. Whenever you make a TV show, what they do is they show it to a focus group and I'm like and they're like, the focus group didn't relate to this character. The focus group didn't relate to that and you're like, are we really? The focus group just wants money. They wanted a sandwich and

50 bucks, man. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if these are the fucking focus group we need. What they wanted a sandwich in 50 bucks man yeah for sure i don't know if these are the fucking focus group we need what'd you think of this tv show it wasn't subway yeah yeah yeah there was one thing i had to test out a new beer and it was like beer mixed it was like like already like with tequila flavored beer or something it was by bud because budweiser wants to take over every beer market. So when Corona did the line, they were going to have lime beer. And then this was like when people were putting a shot of tequila on top of beer and like, we'll just have that already in a keg. And it was terrible.

But we got to drink. We basically had a keg party. We all just stood around and drank out of this keg. And then at the end, you just said, and then everyone was drunk at the end. They're like, great beer. When we did the Jim Jefferies show, they said, oh, we have a problem with this, problem with this. They had a focus group.

But the best compliment I got, they go, and the focus group have decided, and then they actually read, this is what the focus group think of you. And you're sitting there like this. Oh, fuck. This is going to be some hard times, right? They didn't like my outfit was one of the ones. But then they said uh they said

but they think you're likable and you can say whatever you want and i was like that's the only thing i've ever been asked you know i've ever wanted um what role did zimbardo play in the experiment besides running the experiment as a governor well he was a prison superintendent it's basically the same thing yeah you know you didn't have a bloke above him oh wow but who was isn't there what's the guy that runs a prison called i forgot a warden governor is below the the superintendent that's what i meant warden oh no but he was a warden or no he was a superintendent he was above the warden oh wow okay so did they have one of the students be the warden no it was one of his grad students was the warden. Oh, okay, okay.

Oh, wow. And then what was that? And how did they make sure the prisoners felt like prisoners before they even entered their cells? Jim said shackles shaved their heads. They did something very similar to that. They did put chains around their ankles. They stripped them, deloused them,

and then gave them basically what were smocks um they looked like dresses they were all made to look the same and they all had to wear like wear a pantyhose on their head to simulate being having a shaved head oh but even so even before they got to the the fake prison though what did they do get them there? Before that, they had the actual Palo Alto police round them up at their homes in front of their entire neighborhood and cuff them and book them and blindfold them and stuff them in the back of a police car.

And then they drove around for a while. So by the time they got back to Stanford, these kids had no idea where they were. They didn't realize they were in the lower part of one of the the um uh teaching buildings hold on did they know they were gonna get arrested or not yeah yeah oh wait they did oh i thought they did but wait but how did the cops agree the car you just called the cops like

can you arrest some kids it's 1971 exactly you can do whatever you want the cops were drunk all right and then the de-lousing thing. You know, whenever I see that, they throw that powder on them. I don't even know what louse is there. Is that lice? But they just throw it so haphazardly. Whenever I see them, they missed a bunch of spots. In this case, they basically

used a deodorizing spray and just sprayed them. I mean, the fact that they stripped them down for an experiment, though, that already feels unethical in a way. Oh, it was all men. I know, but

I understand why they did it for the effect, but it's just like... It's like fraternity hazing. Yeah, how demoralizing. So is this part of the degradation process? I would say, yeah. Making them all wear a dress in 1971 was pretty harsh.

One of them, though, would have enjoyed it. He'd be like, there's not even a word for what I am. Soon. And then de-individuation. That's taking away your... That was the idea. That's a part of the experiment yeah yeah one part of the experiment was you know again they wanted to de-individualize these

these kids so they were given each assigned a number and they weren't allowed to talk to each other by name so you always had to refer to yourself by a number so you are no longer even a human being at this point you are your number. And you would think that this would take a long time to have an effect on these boys. But within the first two days, they were referring to themselves by their number in like writing letters home and stuff like that, which shocked the experimenters. They were like, hi, this is number 42, even when they were writing letters.

Yeah, hi, I'm writing, my name is Prisoner 8612. You know? But there was only 13 of them. They could have just been 1 to 13. It would have been easy. But they just gave them random numbers. Yeah, it doesn't sound as good, 42. 86142 sounds, 8642 sounds better than 42.

42 sounds like you're playing sports. I'm number four. I don't know if I remember this correctly. Did they have visits from their family? They did at one point. Yeah. But also the other thing to remember is that part of this whole experiment had to deal with boredom of the guards. part of this whole experiment had to deal with boredom of the guards.

You know, the guards were given a list of rules that they read to the prisoners, and they reinforced these rules every day over and over again. They also did these things called counts, where they would line them up outside in the hallway and basically run them down, you know, yelling out their number as loud as they could, as fast as they could, to the point where it just slowly over time it dehumanized these kids and and and made them into a number not a name and they so if you were in the jail you had to stay there the whole time and the guards did too or the guards no the guards were on three shifts so there's three guards at any one time guarding nine prisoners and when they were off they went did they go home or did they stay together?

They just went home. The guards had, you know, the guards had no, no real restraints at all. That is crazy though, to the, I mean,

I guess it goes to show what that power dynamic can do, but the fact that they were able to get outside of the experiment and then come back and still like be in those roles. I feel like when you would leave, you'd be like, wait, what the fuck? This is this is actually kind of messed up what we're doing. That's the rock. That's what a guy does in real life. Yeah, I am.

But they don't go home. I should see what happened at the prison that I reckon you would all day. I reckon I've known a few people who've been prison guards. They reckon it's a shitty job. Yeah. OK, so what did the prisoners do on day two to stir things up so they bashed up trays and saying we will rock you that's right similar similar to that again like at the same spirit they um basically revolted um and jammed their um uh beds up against the door and locked themselves in a cell and,

and, you know, refused to come out. And so the guards that were on duty called in the other guards who are home like asleep or whatever to come in and break up the rest of them. And, you know, while this one prison cell was all boarded up and everything, they came in and rousted the rest of the guys and basically took away their, their, their mattresses and beds. And, you know, they were using all sorts of like psychological torture on these kids to the point where like, if one cell did something,

if they complied and did what the guards told them to, they would get a special meal, you know, they'd get a Coke or something and while the rest weren't fed you know like it just little things and what's really impressive or not impressive but it's kind of scary is the fact that they were all they were told the guards were just told you have to keep order in this prison and you can't physically attack the prisoners the rest of it was they all made it up oh so zimbardo wasn't giving them, like, things to do or say. Nope.

Other than just the basic rules of the prison, which they read in the beginning and then over and over and over again. Everything that the guards did, the guards developed themselves. Now, so you're saying it only lasted six days. Why don't they revolt in prison every couple of days? On day two, they're already doing this. Is this because prisons are better run than this or they're nicer or why doesn't this happen all the time?

I think they're better run than this, obviously, and there's also a much more oppressive system at work there. system at work there. You know, you have tons of guards and real, you know, restraints that I just think it's, you know, you have to really push it to a really serious breaking point for prisoners to revolt. You know, like we saw around the same time that same year Attica happened, you know, and that was the same thing where they just pushed it too far and and and people have a breaking point the thing with this is that in the very first couple of days these kids also just sort of realized that like what did we sign up for why are these guys you know acting like such assholes to us you know um and we don't have to take this you know we'll

just we'll revolt and and it didn't work out in their favor and were they given yard time they were given some of them were put in the hole like you suggested they did get put in the hole um and then some of them again like they'd had had their um their creature comforts taken away from them so that they had to sleep on the floor now you know and didn't have blankets yeah yeah just that alone i'd be done were they allowed to opt out if somebody was like i i can't fucking do this anymore or was that's the thing is that they you know they came to believe that they couldn't opt out because one of the kids had a psychotic break and then they took him out and they they had him have a meeting with zimbardo and he said like i

don't feel good i'm you know i'm freaking out and all the stuff i want toardo and he said like, I don't feel good. I'm, you know, I'm freaking out and all this stuff I want to leave. And they said, do you really think we're going to parole you from prison for having a stomach ache? Oh, you know? And, and basically he came back and freaked out with the other prisoners and said, they won't let us out of here. You can't get out. And that solidified, um, the, the, the, the opinion of the others said, Oh shit, this has now become a real prison. And when they actually took that kid out of the others said, oh, shit, this has now become a real prison. And when they actually took that kid out of the experiment, because he was definitely, you know, psychologically tortured,

they told all the rest of the prisoners that he'd been sent to maximum security. So they all were expecting that, you know. Right. Like if they complained, it would be worse for them. That's the crazy part. You would think that when he goes hey I'm having a nervous breakdown he'd be like okay well I'm a professor but then he just said you can't get out of here then that's fucked up yeah

it would take me about 15 minutes to hit a psychotic break during this experiment then I would be like oh no okay so then so what did the guards do you said they took away the beds it wasn't rape yeah okay it wasn't rape not until later not documented um so what were some um how did the guards break the solidarity of the prisoners as a group after the disobedient behavior of

like a prisoner well like i said they they rewarded the ones that complied and disciplined the ones that didn't they also took the troublemakers and they put them in different cells so there are three people to each cell and then they mixed it up so there was no more fraternization between the people that started the problem what did they deem to be a troublemaker someone that just resisted order and and um wouldn't obey the guards um you know there and at one point, you know, the first kid to opt out, or not opt out, but basically get himself out, was struck by a guard because a guard had been tormenting him

on making his bed for over a day and a half, you know. And basically, he just came in and tore up his bed, and the prisoner freaked out and, you know, grabbed him by the throat, pushed him against the wall on a guard, literally hit him with his nightstick, which you're not supposed to do. And that freaked everybody out. Right. Because they're like, holy shit, you're not supposed to. It says in the contract that we signed that you can't hurt us. You can't physically touch us.

And the experimenters watched this go on and let it go. They're like, let's see where this develops you know and and that's what part of the problem with the whole thing was is that that the experimenters were all given roles in the prison so they started acting their job acting their roles as as the you know um the prison um the warden and the superintendent and the superintendent to the point where it was more important for them to keep this jail, this situation alive and see where it went. Then it was to realize that they were actually harming these kids. So how did it end after six days?

What was the big, that was the next question. When and why does experiment end? Well, it ended after six days. Basically what happened is Zimbardo had was one of his former students he was dating um there was super ethical guy obviously it's 1971 guys former student man from the semester before 1971 she was there with a big bush um she came in on on day five and they they basically had parole hearings for these kids.

And she saw what was going on and just was like, was disgusted and confronted Zimbardo about it and says, you're, you're hurting these kids. These aren't prisoners. These are boys. You know, this is, these are, you know, they're not even your students. They're just, you've they're just you've got to you've got to stop this that's a mess delivering pizzas yeah i'll do it so the reason it ended was a lady came into it what are you idiots up to basically yeah that rings true you guys are doing what

um was there showers in there? Like bathrooms? I mean, what are they? No. That was another punishment after the revolution was that before that, they would take them, they put paper bags over their heads and, you know, the whole, like, put your arm on the shoulder of the guy in front of you and walk them to the

bathroom. And then you'd have to basically sit there while the guards told you, shit, right now. Whoa. Shit on command. You'd have to shit in front of these guys? You'd have to basically sit there while the guards told you shit right now. Whoa. Shit on command. You'd have to shit in front of these guys? You'd have to shit in front of these guys. I tell you, I've done some shits that are so bad they would have let me out.

They would have seen one of my shits. He needs medical treatment. But then as part of the punishment punishment for the rebellion they gave them buckets and that's why that's a force to shit in buckets no showering inside their cell probably right inside their cell yep and then that's just sitting there with you 15 a day oh god worth it do you remember when you were gonna pay that guy a hundred dollars to shit in front of us in that Boston bar. Oh, not in front. That could sound like it was in the bar. Yeah, no, you want to say, okay, so we were in there. It was right across the street from where you were performing in Boston.

You got to tell this wrong, but go on. Okay, and it's this bar that I think it was like the Tam or something like that. Yeah, the Tam. And it was this old Boston bar. And one of us went in there and I was like, man, there's no door on the stall in there, like the toilet. If you have to take a shit, it's just like wide open. And I was like, I can't take a shit in there. And then

I think you said you could. And then some guy either went to the show and knew you overheard it and said, I can take a shit in there. And then you said, I bet you a hundred dollars you can't take a shit in there with no door. And he took a shit. He went in there. And then we went in there with him, with his brother and some other people and i was like we weren't in the cubicle we were in the

cubicle it was a urinal and a cube in a cubicle the cubicle was open with no door but we and he was like i'll take a shit so we were all in there and the manager of the bar came in because he thought we were all doing cocaine yeah and he's like what are you all doing and i'm like i just paid this guy a hundred dollars to do a shit okay as long as that's all that's going on he's like, what are you all doing here at once? And I'm like, I just paid this guy $100 to do his shit. Okay. As long as that's all that's going on. He was like, that's fine. No further questions.

I don't think he was able to do it. No, no. He froze up. He was sitting there. Just making eye contact with a group of other rats. He was between his legs. He was doing the mangyna. He was ready to go. And then he couldn't do it.

But like, I don't even think there was like a seat on there. I think it was just against porcelain. Like it was pretty, it was doing the manginery. He was ready to go, and then he couldn't do it. But I don't even think there was a seat on there. I think it was just against porcelain. It was a rough toilet. It was a dive bar, as you can imagine. It was a dive bar. If no photos, I would have done it. So did you get your $100 back? Yeah, I think you were holding it above him.

He was like, here it is. I didn't go into the toilet and go, $100 for a shit. I went and said, I couldn't shit. This guy forwarded himself like, that's why I thought you were going to tell that bit wrong. But I walked around going, who will shit for a hundred dollars? That's not happened. That didn't happen. But a guy

said he could do it. And I said, I bet you a hundred bucks you can't. And he gave it a go and he couldn't do it. He fucking stage fright. Sucks. So it ended because of the because I don't know if you said her name, the woman that he was dating there. Well, yeah, her name is Christine Zimbardo. She ended up

marrying him. She was already married. She wasn't married to him at the time. She married him after this. Well, let's be honest. That guy's pretty controlling. Like she's not got a lot of freedoms these days. She's doing a lifelong experiment on her. Oh my God.

But this was like 51 years ago and they're still married today. Yeah. She's got Stockholm syndrome. They love each other. So it was just her that ended it or was like the school? She planted the seed. It's a little different than what happened in the film for dramatic purposes.

But Zimbardo basically spent the night driving around thinking about this stuff. And he came back the next morning and watched the videotape of the night before and saw that things had crossed a line and that he had to end it oh you know like it smells like shit in there what i think i know what we've learned but what have we learned like you know that man can be cruel if we're put in the wrong situation or do they learn anything where we still implement it into today's prison system well today's prison system you know probably the closest um uh sort of parallel to what happened in the stanford prison experiment is what happened at abu grabe yeah that basically they took a bunch of unsupervised kids and put them in charge of

prisoners and they with no supervision and things went horrible you know they started fucking with the prisoners and posing them stripping naked and treating them inhumanly um yeah that was bad that that whatever happened to that girl was in the photos it was just pointing yeah lindy england oh no that was a different that was a different one uh that was sabrina harman i think they all got in trouble right maybe you know more i i was looking when when i was reading up on this yesterday abu gray it was like it came up and i started going on their wikipedia page and i started looking at the pictures i was like this is terrible and i had never heard i had never heard the guy just

attached to a battery yeah he probably thought it was something more that's a guy he's naked yeah she has them like with a dog and then they piled all the naked guys. And then they tried to play it off as this. You go like, you see, like homosexuality in their culture is very bad. And we were trying to do blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, you're just being cunts. This Iraqi prisoner was forced to perform oral sex in another one where they have bags over their heads.

This guy's like, this guy's attached like a bed frame and they have like urine soaked underwear over his head and stuff. But I'm pretty sure a lot of them, didn't they go to prison? I think a bunch of them did, yeah. Yeah, I was like, it was not good. And as you can imagine, the Iraqi government was not happy. I don't think anyone was happy. Now, did that go from zero to 100 really fast, or was it a gradual?

Oh, I reckon it was pretty fast. Yeah. And also we were at the height of the war in Afghanistan, the height of the war in Iraq. And so it's like, okay, so why doesn't this happen more often or does it happen more often and we don't know? That's a good question and I don't really have an answer for that. Right. Yeah, because you think like if it happens at Abu Ghraib,

like they must train prison guards now to have a or there must be enough checks and balances on you have to lock a person at this you're not to go into a cell there there must be more and more rules like the rules on a prison must be very extensive well it's weird for another project i was um reading up on uh basically a prison guard and the fact that in the middle of this country, it's shockingly easy to become a prison guard. You don't have to have many skills at all. You don't have to have much intelligence, you know, and the training that they get is like a week and then they're thrown into a prison. I mean, it's crazy. thrown into a prison. I mean, it's crazy. But the other thing is that Zimbardo's big sort of takeaway from this was that, you know, there are no bad apples or just bad barrels,

that the situational forces of a situation, sound like an idiot, can really influence human behavior. And, you know, so what you have to do is fix things on an institutional level rather than trying to do it at the individual level because basically the system always wins. And so if you fix the system, you have a shot at fixing the barrel and not having any bad apples. But it's not just prison. Like think of it. There'd be some psychopath cunts that fucking run orphanages

and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's not just prisons. We all remember a school teacher at school that got away with a bit too much or whatever. I don't think as much now.

I feel like so. No, and I had a teacher named Mrs. Cross, and she'd make you come up to her desk, and she would pinch the shit out of you like really hard. Like you're like, you're on your thigh right there. Like,

and you're like, and it's, it was frightening. And you knew if you had to go up to that table, she was a big woman. She wasn't going to get up that you were going to get like hurt, you know? And it was just like,

man, that's what's so scary is like people that have those tendencies tend to lean towards jobs where they're dealing with vulnerable populations, whether it's students or orphanages or even prison. Like, I feel like you would want somebody who has lower education because I would guess that a higher the higher IQ or education somebody has, they would be less inclined to do things like this. I don't I don't know if that's true. Yeah, but the guy, the scientist doing the stuff, he would have been a very educated man. These were Stanford kids. Were there any guards that didn't fall into those roles? Were there anybody who was going against the grain?

Yes. Actually, on all three of the guard shifts, what sort of illuminated afterwards was that there was a one leader, one person that was a gung ho to, to do this one guy that it was his wingman. And then usually the third guy was sympathetic to the prisoners and tried to go easy on them. And it was like, come on,

man, just, you know, do what he says. And, and, uh, were any of them friends outside before this happened?

No, no, because I didn't know each other. Oh, they made sure to do it. They're friends forever now, though. But it is crazy. To your point, too, about the bad barrels. It's six days. It was like a day or two in, and it was already like,

they're like, I got power. It was chaos, yeah. Do you think the experiment would have been different if they used older people? Because I think maybe in my my youth i would have been a bit more okay we're gonna do this this this and you know but i think now i wouldn't be as much like that do you think it might have been a youth thing or i i think it probably has some component yeah um i would tend to be this i would just at this point you know when the whole idea with this movie was to have the audience walk out and go what would I do if I was put in this situation?

Would I be a good guard or a bad guard? Would I be a prisoner that bucked against the system or just fell in and did what we told them? I think I'd be the same as I am in every job I've had. I'd be a lazy guard. I'd be the guard eating an ice cream underneath the stairwell trying to hide i would think i would be a bad prisoner and a bad guard i think i'd be about because i think i would be i would get upset that like if because i'd be like if the prisoner wasn't doing i was saying i'd be like man this is a fucking experiment dickhead like and then you get upset like that way and

then someone else would egg you on like yeah and i would definitely be a prisoner where i'm like i'm not shitting i'd be a troublemaking prisoner um but i don't think i'd be a terrible i don't i don't i think i have the capacity to i wouldn't be able to be a guard at all i would quit i'd be good in the hole though and i would cry the whole time as a prisoner oh the amount of cum on the floor of the hole must have been insane if you were the seventh prisoner in there amount of cum on the floor of the hole must have been insane. If you were the seventh prisoner in there, you could swim into the joint. The snorkel room they used to go in.

Jim said there are no ethical problems with this experiment. None that I can see. And so there is both to the experiment today we talked a little bit about um relate to ideas we've been exploring recently um punishment over rehab stuff like that like and that's kind of like what you were talking about as far as the institution of right yeah trying to to to sort of fix things on an institutional level um and you know we're

not very successful it's still the prison system in this country is horrible. Did this have any direct result on the prison? Did anyone look at this result, this experiment, and say, hey, we try to make some changes or something like that? I believe so, yeah. And then also, this experiment basically led to the

ethics laws that prohibit this kind of an experiment on people. because they're you know even though over the long term these they you know the the researchers met with these prisoners and guards over and over again like every couple years for five to ten years i think and um there was no long-term effects but in the short term they were psychologically damaging these kids um you know, you just can't do that anymore. Did any of the guards

and prisoners become friends afterwards? What's funny is one of the guards or one of the I can't remember if it's a guard or a prisoner, but one of the participants became a prison warden. Whereas the most brutal guard ended up becoming

like a real estate salesman. Oh, that's a tough job, man. Yeah. It's very competitive. Real estate. I'm telling you. Fucking real estate people, they hustle, man. There's people who make a lot of money but they're calling you all the time.

Do you want to sell your home? And you're like, no, you just sold it to me. Do you want to sell it though? You want to see a picture of you shitting in a bucket? Yeah. Now, we said that you can to sell it, though? You want to see a picture of me shitting in a bucket? Now, we said that you can't do it now for ethical reasons. What are those ethical reasons we can't

do it now? Well, because there's clear evidence of psychological damage that this just, ethically speaking, Then we shouldn't be allowed to get married. That's true. Hey-o. The marriage experiment. We're going to put two people in a room for the rest of their lives.

We're going to give them equal power supposedly yeah yeah the movie I've never seen can you see the movie now the like is it on any of the platforms right I mean you can get it on I believe on Amazon Amazon yeah

and for a while it was on Netflix. It comes and goes. Yeah. Let's see. Oh, you're checking it? Yeah, I'm looking it up. All right. So this part of the show.

It's on HBO Max. HBO Max. Who is it really? Who is in the movie? I didn't even look at it. Right now Tim's like, I got to call someone. I got to call someone. I'm not getting it.

I'm looking at residuals. Where's that HBO max buddy. Like fucking a first review is a mentally taxing watch. It is. It's kind of hard to watch, but it was also sort of really cool for me because we premiered it at Sundance and with a room full of like 1500 people, when the title card for day two came up,

there was this collective like gasp, like all this shit happened in the first day. And that's when I knew we had the audience. Yeah. Like, geez, they're like, Jesus,

this is such a slog. Yeah. Billy crude, crude up. He cried up his product. He plays Zimbardo. Ah, Billy cried up.

Billy cried up. Must've been a cheap film to make though. Mostly in one building, right? Yeah. It was shot in Burbank. Out by the airport. It's amazing, though. Every now and again you saw Jay Leno walking past

his cars. Man, I shit in my car. Oh, I might be wrong. It might not be on the HBO. It might not be on HBO. It said that in a different thing, but when I clicked into it. Don't worry about that money, Tim. It's not coming.

They bloody screwed you again. Okay, this is a part of the show called Dinner Party Facts. We ask our guests to give us a fact, something obscure, interesting about this specific subject that I mean, I don't know anything about it before, so you could literally say anything, but if there's something

else that you have for us, a little tidbit. Well, I have a couple of things from the production, which I thought were anything about it before. So you could literally say anything. But if there's something else that you have for a little tidbit. Well, I have a couple of things from the production, which I thought were pretty interesting. But none of you guys have seen the movie. So I'm going to watch the movie. Yeah, but Kelly's seen the movie. I've seen it. I'm watching it tonight. I'm intrigued.

Yeah. Okay. Billy Crudup, who plays Zimbardo, his basically his biggest, most emotional scene in the movie was shot on his first day. Like all the other people had been working for two weeks before he came in. And then he had to come in and do basically the scene where he ends the prison experiment. And he's phenomenal in it. So I thought that was really weird. I mean, it must have been a challenge for him as an actor to come in and do your most emotional, what the whole movie's building up to on day one, scene one,

you know, I thought that was pretty interesting. The other thing is there are a couple of sons of celebrities that are in the cast. One of them who plays a prisoner is Jack Kilmer, who's Val Kilmer's son. And this one I just found out from a friend of mine a couple of days ago. One of the kids who plays a guard, his name is Harrison Thomas

and his dad is Dave Thomas from SCTV. Oh, sweet. Which I was like, whoa, I'd never, I had no idea. Even I met the kid, I had no idea his dad was Dave Thomas. I thought you were going to say the founder, Wendy's. I thought so too. I was like, damn, that family. The other one was Hank Jeffries.

Oh, you didn't know he was in that? He played the short prisoner. The short prisoner. Alright, well, thank you for being here Tim again. Everybody check out the movie. It's not on HBO Max. Just, you know, Stanford Prison Experiment, Amazon Prime. Just put it into your Apple TV or Roku, whatever. We'll find out. Yeah, I know's not on HBO Max. Just, you know, Stanford Prison Experiment, Amazon Prime.

Just put it into your Apple TV or Roku, whatever. Find out. Yeah, I know it's on Apple TV. You can follow Tim on Twitter at TFTalbot and on Instagram at DIM underscore D-A-L-B-A. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Thanks, Tim. I appreciate that.

That was interesting. I know more now about that than i did before do you but i knew i knew a lot before yeah it's impressive yeah yeah so what'd you learn ah people you just got to be nice to each other that's a good lesson yeah you learned a lesson you didn't learn anything yeah treat people as you'd like to be treated another good lesson yeah you didn't know that before? I knew it, but I didn't have anything to back it up. No data. If you're ever at a party and someone comes up to you and goes,

I reckon if I was a guard, I'd treat you nicely. Go, I don't know about that, and walk away. Why would they say that at a party? It's a long party. Running out of topics. Good night, Australia.