Judge John Hodgman - Chew Process

Episode Date: January 31, 2024

Rae brings the case against their mom, Judy. Judy is adamant that you have to eat certain foods in certain orders. But Rae says her mom’s gut instinct is nothing but a bunch of *fart noises*. Who’s right? Who’s wrong?Thanks to reddit user u/JennyNEway for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, chew process. Ray brings the case against their mom, Judy. Judy is adamant that you have to eat certain foods in certain orders. Ray says her mom's gut instinct is nothing but a bunch of... Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the

courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Sir, you are looking hero in my eyes. Your capability of expression of any topic is so amazing. Heart emoji, heart emoji, heart emoji. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Ray and Judy, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he ate all of his foods simultaneously in 1986? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Yeah, I'm still working them through. Still working through all those Smarties and Necco wafers.

And lobster rolls and fried clams. I was only eating New England foods at the time. Got it. That's my theory of digestion. Only eat foods from your home region when you're 15 years old and never again. But let's leave my wackadoo theories behind and move on to the case. Judy and Ray, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced

as I entered this courtroom? Mom will go with you first. Judy, what is your guess? I think my only guess would be the mountain goats. Sure. That's an honest, good guess. And as this subject is digestion, mountain goats eat anything. So that's pretty on point there. Mountain goats eat mountain tin cans. That's right. You know what I could have done? I could have given you a different one, which I'll give you in a minute. But first, Ray, can you guess this one? I have no idea what that is. So I'm going to say it is a comment on the Instagram page of Alton Brown, legendary chef. You know what, Ray? You're pretty close there. You're pretty close there. I'm going to put a

circle on that one. I had quite a few good ones this week, and it was a hard choice. I could have gone with this one from our friend, Mary Roach, from her book, gulp adventures on the elementary canal. The human digestive tract is like the Amtrak line from Seattle to LA. Transit time is about 30 hours. And the scenery on the last leg is pretty monotonous.

It's pretty good. It's pretty good. Jesse. Mary's funny, right? Cool lady. Could have gone with this one. I must always remain in hiding for an hour after meals the food is visible inside me until it is digested you know that one ray i do not judy i do not claude reigns and in the invisible man

gross right interesting totally gross makes sense yeah i have a feeling if the food is visible in Gross, right? Interesting. Totally gross. Makes sense. Yeah. I have a feeling if the food is visible in his stomach for an hour, he's got it. We know that the digestive tract is like the Amtrak line from Seattle, LA. 30 hours. There are going to be people who will be able to see other stuff than the invisible man. Not just the food in his stomach. Gross. And then I just realized i could have given you this

one from uh from my old friend jonathan colton love ain't no billy goat boop boop boop boop love ain't got no horn do do do love ain't got eat don't eat no garbage love got boom boom regular human eyeballs love don't have devil's eyeballs love ain't no billy goat that's for sure i think you've sung that one on the show before i have sung it it's love ain't no billy goat by jonathan colton which he wrote for the thrilling adventure hour about things that eat anything in any order which is what brings us here today but i didn't use any of those quotes because i had to honor an internet comment ray this is where you got close okay from one at joe bayer rahman 8429 top quote from two months ago on on the video that that comprised my the entirety of my medical research on this subject that we're going to be talking about today. A seven-minute video from a medical student named Dr. Someday Rex,

because he's not a doctor yet. Dr. Someday Rex, who schooled me in about seven minutes on the migrating motor complex of the stomach, which may or may not come up again in this conversation, because it relates to the action of the stomach, which is what we're talking about today. But I did need to honor that person who was so moved by Dr. Someday Rex that they wrote, you are looking hero in my eyes two months ago, especially since the video was made three years

ago. This is a lonely person out there. But as we dig into this layer cake of a case, I do also want to start by echoing Dr. Someday Rex in his own warning, quote, this video and this podcast should not be taken as medical advice. Consult with your doctor if you have any health concerns. Views and opinions expressed herein are Dr. Someday Rex's and mine and do not represent any organization institution which we are associated with. And I will note to you, the listener, that we will be talking today about food and dietary habits. So if that's something you don't feel like hearing about today, you can just go back into our back catalog and listen to another episode. We've got a lot of them. Please make sure you rate and review it wherever you get

your podcast. That really helps. And I will also anti-warn you that we will not be eating on mic today. So you can listen to that just fine. All guesses are wrong. So we turn now to Ray, who brings this case to my court of fake justice. Ray, what is the nature of your complaint? So my mom has a lot of weird parent behaviors. A few of them are food-based. And the last visit she had with us, she brought up a couple of them while she was with us, and it inspired me to write in. The first and main complaint is she has this belief. I don't think it's a scientific belief that if you have multiple food items on your plate. And let's face it, I do. Don't we all? You have to start with your least favorite item, eat all of it, move to the next item,

eat all of it and continue that way because the food layers in your stomach like a parfait, and you cannot mix it together. And so, Judy, you're moving from least favorite to most favorite? Yes, sir. So you're nestling the least favorite down at the bottom by the pyloric valve. Thanks, Dr. Someday-Rix. And then you're creating a parfait of increasing favoritism towards your esophagus, correct? Yes, sir. What's going on? Where did you get this idea? I've always eaten like that. I don't like to mix my food. Okay, fair enough. And I always like to start with the least favorite because you want to save the best for last.

And I always like to start with the least favorite because you want to save the best for last. And when my girls were little, they would ask me and I would tell them, because your food goes down in layers. And they don't believe that. But I sent in a little bit of evidence that shows that I pulled off the internet. So it has to be true. That shows that your food does, in fact, go down in layers. I am looking at the evidence you sent in. Exhibit A here is available on our show page at MaximumFun.org, as well as on our Instagram

account at JudgeJohnHodgman on Instagram. And I see two images of a human stomach. And in the top image, in layers, we see an entire donut. Looks like a maple glazed. Then maybe, I don't know what the thing is. Is that supposed to be a hot dog? It's not a sandwich anyway. I believe it is a hot dog.

All right. Then a whole pizza, and then what looks like a hamburger, but without a hamburger in it, just maybe a slice of cheese between condiments. A famous condiment sandwich like I used to get at America's Best Deli on West 26th Street when I used to work at Ryder's house. This is science, according to you? Your Honor, I looked that up on the internet.

Uh-huh. So it has to be true. Uh-huh. Because the food here does not look digested. This isn't like going to a state fair and looking through a portal to one of the cow's many stomachs to see how the rumen is digested or whatever. To see the rumen at work. This is just an image that has cartoon pictures of foods inside a cartoon picture of a stomach. So where'd you get it?

Off the internet, but I know I shouldn't have picked that picture. That was terrible. Well, there's another picture below it that you sent in, which again seems to be a cartoon picture of a stomach, this time full of tomatoes and bell peppers and a whole head of cauliflower. For health. You have to have your vegetables. What am I looking at? What are you seeking to prove with this? Are you sure you didn't manufacture this evidence, ma'am? No, sir, I did not. But it was the only thing that I could find that would justify my position. I would love to know, I don't know what search engine you use, but what terms did you use to search for this?

I searched in... Internal parfait. Food layered in your stomach. Food layered in your stomach food layered in your stomach uh-huh and then there was a whole bunch of terrible pictures that just showed bad things and there was one little picture that showed one of mine so i clicked on that and it gave me other examples of that i'm not seeing the bad things that you saw maybe i have safe stomach selected on my search engine choice probably so uh but i don't see the thing oh wait hang on it took me a little ways down to find an image that does look like yours a cartoon

of a bunch of different whole foods, including like a whole wheel of Swiss cheese and a whole half of avocado layered into a stomach. And this is from a website called Amway Now. Amway, a very famous multi-level marketing organization. So I'm not sure that this is scientific at all. Do you have a degree in science of any kind? I do not. Do you have a degree in science of any kind? I do not. But you did send in... My medical degree? I did graduate, but that was also off the internet.

This looks like a screen grab of a diploma from the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in which you have scrawled your name in using your finger on your phone. Yes, Your Honor. And it's not even an MD. It's a degree in the business of medicine. I happen to be noticing right now. That is where I went wrong. That's what happens when you get your medical degree by searching for inside parfait whole pizza. Exactly. Ray, is it safe to say that your mother is a liar?

Oh, she's definitely a liar. I don't think she believes that it is scientifically true. I think that when she was a child, she had that very childish idea that your food should not touch each other, which is fine. I have a toddler. I get it but to justify that idea she created when i was a child i layered in my stomach like a child but when i became a grown up i pooped that concept away with other childish things but alas she did not poop

the concept uh she continues and she won't make other people do it. She does it on her own. But if you bring it up, she preaches it like pure truth. We haven't had merch in a while, Ray, but now I'm picturing a like, nevertheless,

she persisted t-shirt that just says, alas, she did not poop the concept. I'm imagining like a first draft of the Velveteen Rabbit. I'm imagining like a first draft of the Velveteen Rabbit. It's about letting go of keeping your food separate in your stomach. Ray, you mentioned or Judy mentioned that your mom was visiting you. Where do you all live? So currently, my family is an Air Force family.

We're stationed in Idaho. my family is an Air Force family. We're stationed in Idaho. So my mom comes to visit us as often as she can, mostly to see my child. As soon as I had a child, she forgot about her own child. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations to you both, both on having a child and forgetting about your own child in favor of your grandchild. And you're visiting from somewhere in Florida, right, Judy? Yes, I'm in Tallahassee right now, but I live in Lynnhaven, which is right outside of Panama City, Florida. But were you in the Air Force then?

I was, yes, for four years. Oh, okay. Excellent. And then it says here that you worked in corrections? I went to prison for 31 years. And when were you released? I was paroled July of 2017. So I could send you back if you're on probation? I'm done. I could un-retire you? Oh, that'd be terrible. Ray, how long has your mom been telling you that food layers in

your stomach? Oh, for as long as I can remember. Do you remember the first time? I don't remember the first time. I remember it being brought up as a joke probably in my high school years. My sister and I would bother her about it. What's her favorite food and what's her least favorite food? Oh my goodness goodness. That's a good question. Maybe you never even noticed or cared what your own mother liked to eat. So busy were you making fun of her? I mean, as her child, that's my obligation to make fun of her, just as that's her obligation to be a weird mom to me. She has very particular ideas. You have a good concept of your respective duties.

It's a little something called family values. Yeah. She has very particular ideas on how to eat a turkey sandwich perfectly. So I would rank that up there. Let me hear it. Not from you, Judy. I want to hear it from Ray. White toast, butter, turkey.

That's it. Whoa. Oh, salt. Salt. I'm sorry. I forgot the salt. Salt? Salt.

I love this. I love this for you. I love this for Elwood Blues and the Blues Brothers. Just love it overall. When you were in the Air Force, Judy, did you spend some time stationed in Paris, France? I did not, but I did spend some time in Turkey. Okay. Very tenuous connection there.

Yes, yes. Are you telling me that the Turks in Turkey eat their turkey with butter only? I've never seen the Turks eat a turkey. I was trying to buy you some cover there because in France, I mean, they have mayonnaise to be sure. They're not savages, but the most popular sandwich condiment in France is butter. Beurre, pain, sel, and dindon, which is turkey. Sounds like actually a sandwich that I want to try, Ray. So I think you kind of foiled your case that time.

Well, I eat it in a very similar manner, but instead of butter, a very nice spread of mayonnaise instead. Because turkey tends to be dry. But wait one second, Judy. If you're eating a turkey sandwich, however it is, aren't you messing with the layers? Because you've got bread, turkey, butter, and salt all going down the pipe at the same time. How's that layer out? You are 100% correct. You are 100% correct. And the only time I would have turkey sandwiches, Thanksgiving or Christmas. And what I've gathered from that is—

The period of time when science doesn't apply. Right. When you do not eat your food the conventional way of going in layers, you're eating it Thanksgiving. I would say the Judy way. Exactly. The correct way. The Judy way. Exactly. The correct way. The Judy convention. You're eating at Thanksgiving. You're eating at Christmas.

And you're not eating the way you're supposed to. What do you have to do? You have to undo your pants. You have to wear sweatpants. Because of you not eating it, that's why you have to undo your pants. Those of you who are not watching on video, when Judy was explaining, because you're not eating it correctly, she said, because you're not eating it,

and then she used her hand to make a layer of steps down, or a series of steps down, like layers, right? So you're saying that Thanksgiving, Christmas, those are times of dietary indulgence. That's a time when you set aside the Judy convention of the layers and you'll just go ahead and eat a sandwich instead of presumably the rest of the year

when you separate out the bread, the butter, the salt, and the turkey and you eat them in order. What would be the order in which you would eat them from least favorite to most favorite? Salt would have to be first. Least favorite? Least favorite would be salt

if out of those four. You've lost. But, Your Honor, may I ask you something? I'll allow it. Thank you. When something happens to somebody and they have to go to the corner and he says,

Okay, I can see 27 hours prior to this, they had scrambled eggs. 15 hours prior to this, they had scrambled eggs. 15 hours prior to this, they had an apple. And they can determine exactly what you ate. Almost to the minute, it has to be because of layers. I'm not sure I am initiated into your definition of going to the corner. No, going to the coroner, Judge Hodgman. The coroner.

I was quite confused. Although there's a corner down at my corner. When someone has to go to the corner, I thought you were talking about some very special form of punishment in your family or in the Air Force or in your correctional institution. Down on Figueroa Boulevard by my house, John, there's a coroner there who's willing to do live coronering. You're saying that a coroner performing an autopsy is able to

determine foods in layers as it's been moving through the GI tract? I believe so. And what is your evidence for that? I mean, I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm not friends with a coroner, nor do I have one on speed dial. Nor am I. Just from everything that I've seen on public television, it has to be true. Ray, do you know any coroners?

Can you refute this? I do not know any. My science is not that of the human body. Okay, but Judy, you're advocating eating layers based on preference, not based on dietary health, as far as I can tell. What happens to you when you don't eat your food in layers, when you have one of your wonderful turkey butter sandwiches? food in layers when you have one of your wonderful turkey butter sandwiches? That's when my stomach just, you know, feels like you have to undo your pants. You got to get some more room in there.

You have to make more room because you did not eat it correctly. You feel a little uncomfortable. Yes. Do you ever make like a recipe inside yourself? I've never done that. That would be interesting. Like you eat a cup of yogurt and then a cup of granola and then a cup of yogurt and then a cup of granola and then some whipped cream. You ever whip up an ambrosia salad with chunks of pineapple in there? No, but I think

I should. I'm going to try. I'm going to give that a shot. Really hard to float the pineapple in the jello. Ray, what do you think happens to food during digestion? Probably what everybody thinks happens. You eat it, it gets mixed up, and it continues on its path. The stomach is a moving organ. That's why it growls when you're hungry, because its walls are rubbing against each other. So once you have food in there, it's all mixed together. There's no parfait. You wouldn't get an X-ray or a different scan and see a cake of what you've eaten.

Well, Judy might for fun. But you might not like what you see, Judy. You might see what you found when you Google image searched layers and stomach. Exactly. All I know about this comes from Dr. Someday Rex MD to be from three years ago when he was talking about the migrating motor complex or the migratory motor complexes is sometimes known. And what I learned from the seven minute video,

Ray is more or less what you said is, is true based on this unlicensed doctor, non-doctor, but he was someone who has been taking medical classes and I'm talking about real MD school, not business of medicine school. Sorry, Johns Hopkins,

which is the pyloric valve closes and all the food as it comes in, just gets all mixed up together. And then it lets the mixture through bit by bit until you have been fasting for a period of time, which is to say you go to sleep, typically, the long period of hours without eating. That's when that migratory motor complex kicks in. And that is a three or four phase function of the enteric nervous system.

But basically what it does is it sweeps the stomach of everything it couldn't digest during the regular period. And we're talking about stuff that's like fiber that's not digestible, stuff that can't get through that pyloric valve during the normal thing. But he did also say that typically what moves through the pyloric valve, it goes in this order. Liquids, carbs, proteins, and then fats. So it's a little contradictory there because that is a little bit of layer. You know what I mean?

But that doesn't mean to say that if you eat an apple, the apple sits at the bottom. While if you then have your turkey butter sandwich, that sits over the apple. It all gets mixed up and the water goes through first. It's my understanding from Dr. Someday. Now, if you're an actual medical doctor or a professional coroner, I know you're going to write in anyway, so you might as well start doing it now. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts

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Not consciously, not trying to follow the Judy way of eating. Ah, but that would suggest that Judy, your mother, while advocating for the Judy Convention, never forced it upon you. Is that true or not true? That is true. She has never forced the convention upon anybody that I've witnessed. So what is your standing in this? Why not just let your mom eat the way she wants to eat? I am totally happy to let my mom eat the way she wants to eat. Everybody gets to do what they like as long as it doesn't hurt other people.

to eat. Everybody gets to do what they like as long as it doesn't hurt other people. The problem is if you bring it up or if she brings it up, she will act like it is pure scientific truth, which I just want her to admit that it is not scientifically true. And it's just her weird idea. Does she have any other weird ideas that she tries to bluff you into thinking are truth? My mom has a variety of weird ideas. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. Least favorite to most favorite, please.

I want to layer them down. Well, another weird food, not so much an idea, but a pattern that I've witnessed. My entire life, she has said without hesitation, she does not like coffee. But the last time she was at my house when this was brought up, she bought a can of coffee to use at my house and we went through a coffee drive-thru where she asked me to order her a coffee.

So she drinks and enjoys coffee, but then says she doesn't like it. Mom Judy has raised her hand. I will allow your question or your response. Thank you, Your Honor. Coffee smells amazing. Another t-shirt, another banger. Coffee, bacon, amazing. They smell amazing. But just to drink coffee? No. If I get a coffee, it has so much cream and sugar in it that you can't consider it coffee.

Also, you're messing up your layers because you have the coffee layer and the cream layer and the sugar layer. I don't really consider liquids layers. I really do. And I encourage you to drink your coffee this way from now on. Get a black coffee, take a drink, then open up one of those little tubs of half and half, shoot it, and then put some sugar on the back of your hand and lick it like that.

That's the best way to enjoy coffee. I shall try that. You're saying that you get coffee for the smell more than the taste. No, very rarely do I get coffee. I mean, once in a great while, when I was at her house, I was drinking these protein drinks and they have a cafe latte one that if you mix it with coffee, it doesn't really taste like coffee, but it's warm. You know, it's just kind of like hot chocolate. I honestly, in a conversation about layering semi-digested food into the stomach, I didn't think you were going to repulse me

with mixing protein shakes with coffee. I like the idea that you have completely oppositional ideas about food and beverages. So with food, nothing gets mixed. With beverages, only the craziest mix I've ever heard of. That is true. Let me ask you guys. do you guys have kids? Yes, I do. We both do. We all do. When my girls were little, I have two girls, when they were

little, I'm sure you guys have been through the same thing. If you have daughters, they would make something. Oh, mom, try it. Try it. It's delicious. And it's the worst thing you've ever tasted in your life. But you have to because they're little and you love them because they're good tax write-offs. So you have that bond with them. You're saying they make something disgusting, some little food potion or mixture, add mixture of like, like, like raw eggs, red food coloring. Yeah. Chocolate chip cookie dough and paprika and maple syrup or something. I can give a good example. I remember heating over the stove, Coca-Cola, black pepper and two percent milk. That sounds like a terrific holiday drink on

the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Yeah, I feel like that one might catch me by surprise and I'd like it. You never know. As my kids got older, Ray, we would go through drive-thrus where you can get, you know, different kinds of drinks. I'm familiar with the term. And she would be like, oh, mom, try it. Try it. It's so good. Same thing as when she was little.

It was disgusting judy what is your point other than ray is disgusting with this oh ray is not ray is not but the drinks that she gets are and if i got a coffee i would get like a caramel frappuccino that's not really a coffee that's like a slushy i i don't disagree with you, but I fail to see the point of your argument, other than saying that your daughter made disgusting things when she was young. What is the point in terms of the layers? I have no point. Ha ha! I appreciate your honesty. I have no point. I liked it better when the coffee was for huffing.

Yeah, I thought we were going somewhere with there are just some foods that you need to smell. I do have a good coffee story, though. All right, I'll decide. Go ahead. Okay. So when I was working at the prison, you have inmates that work for you. I'm just going to interrupt you just for one second. Now, I didn't get an MFA in creative writing.

I applied to some programs. I decided I preferred to stay and work in book publishing in New York City rather than go and study. Okay. But I took some really good writing classes from great teachers like Don Faulkner and Lee K. Abbott, both of whom are no longer alive, I'm sad to say, but whose lessons live with me today.

One of them being specificity is the soul of narrative. The other one being, if you want to start a story, when I used to work at the prison, great way of starting. Immediate. I'm like, okay, I'm listening. So when I used to work at the prison, you have inmates that work for you. So you kind of like just supervise.

That time of my life, I only drank Mountain Dew. So this is already fast-tracked for a Nobel Prize in literature. Yes. I have a New Yorker on the phone. They're taking dictation. I'm sitting at my desk writing down stuff for the day. I had a cup of coffee. My inmates are just, you know, they're working, doing their stuff. I have another cup of coffee. Third time I went to get a cup of coffee, my inmates like, oh my goodness, you're pregnant. I'm like, what did you just say to me? He's like, you're pregnant. My sister never drinks coffee. When she drank coffee, then she found out she was pregnant. Sure enough, she's pregnant with Ray's little sister.

That's my only coffee story. So you normally would just drink Mountain Dew, but then the inmates who were under your supervision noticed you were drinking coffee. You weren't even thinking about yourself. Wasn't even thinking about it. Judge Hodgman, to be clear, at this time, she only drank Mountain Dew. Right. Right. Exactly. Never drank coffee. Yeah. Well, you know what they say when you're having a child, layer some coffee on top of it.

Exactly. Ray, you mentioned that your mother has other odd behavioral patterns. Ray, you mentioned that your mother has other odd behavioral patterns. Coffee is one of them. What else? Yes. Well, a related odd behavioral pattern is that when she meets people for the first time, they ask what she does, where she's from. She will say, I just got out of prison.

I was there for 30 years. I heard it. I mean, yep, you guys heard it too. I saw that one in real time. A small percentage of people will instantly get it and find it funny. The other half will usually be very just blindsided and speechless and not know how to respond to that until she finally breaks in. I worked there. I retired.

Yeah, I could see how that might be a little disorienting or confusing. Let me ask Judy. Who are you saying this to? New friends and acquaintances? Not new acquaintances, but just people that Ray would know. Her husband's family. Okay, gotcha. But, and the reason I do that, I didn't start that.

When I retired and I retired and moved back to Florida, my dad lives right outside of Tampa. I'd go to church with him or whatever. He's been going to the same church since 1977 when he retired. And he would introduce me to people in his church. And he's like, this is my daughter. She just got out of prison. So that's where I got it from. It's because my dad. It's a weird dad thing that got passed down. He's got a great sense of humor. A weird, and I say this with affection, a weird daughter slash mom thing. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.

That's pretty good. He thought it was hilarious. He still thinks it's hilarious. Why didn't you bring your granddad to this court, Ray? Because we could have had a real thing going. I mean, I would have because I myself display some weird parent attributes. So we could have had a trifecta. Like a generational curse.

I think she was scared to because that's exactly the way he eats his turkey sandwiches. White toast, butter, and salt. Yeah, but the two of you doing it doesn't make it a law. It doesn't even make it a trend. Don't tell my dad that.

No, I understand. Yeah, if you wanted to be a trend and get into the New York Times, there's going to need to be three of you and you're going to need to do it in Park Slope. That's right. Darn. Right. Does your mom have any other little weirdsies around food in particular besides the layering? Well, she is very, very particular about food. very particular about food um getting her to try new things is absolutely like pulling teeth getting her to try uh a new dinner a new addition to something um a new brand of a product it seems

like she followed her father's steps um in terms of what food she likes what product she buys and has never deviated what What do you call your grandfather? Pop-up, grampy, granddad, grancy? Groups. Scott? Peepaw. Peepaw? No, it's grandpa.

Oh, no. Peepaw would be great, though. Peepaw is very good. I also like Scott. But what are Scott's brands and what are your mom's brands? We talk about brands now on the podcast, so you can just say them. Maybe we'll get a sponsorship out of it. For instance, she'll come to visit my house and want to make a recipe.

She won't even bother checking my fridge. She will just go to the store and buy, let's say, an entire new jar of mayonnaise because she knows that I like to try different ones. And she has to have a very particular one for whatever she is making. What's your mayonnaise, ma'am? Best Foods. Right. I'll buy Hellman's. Okay.

Those are the same. That's the same. I will not buy generic. Okay. I buy the name brands. Yeah. Ray does not. Ray, you're rocking generic mayonnaise out there in Idaho?

No, I will buy a Duke's. I will buy a nice one with some avocado oil or sea salt. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It's probably more along your lines there. Alternate upscale mayonnaises. I could see you buying a Kewpie mayonnaise for the umami. I used a Kewpie mayonnaise last night. You have to acknowledge, Ray, that these mayonnaise, like all mayonnaise, are all very delicious, but they are different.

Oh, they're definitely different. But if I have a regular, just a mayonnaise for a sandwich at home, full jar, ready to go, just a mayonnaise for a sandwich at home, full jar, ready to go. She doesn't need to go buy one of a different brand just because the potato salad will taste slightly different, which it probably will not. Well, I'm bringing out my big gavel. I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. Ray, I strongly disagree with you. Preliminary ruling against you. Mayonnaise counts. You got to get the mayonnaise you like. Thank you. Sorry about that. with you. Preliminary ruling against you. Mayonnaise counts. You got to get mayonnaise you like. Thank you, Your Honor.

Sorry about that. Thank you. Thank you. Any other brands that are, I mean, that's a, to me, that's a very rational brand loyalty because all of those mayonnaises are different. I'm not even an aspiring medical doctor. Do you know what I mean? But I'm certainly not doctor someday mayonnaise expert.

I am doctoreday mayonnaise expert. I am Dr. Now mayonnaise expert. Years and years of experience, Ray, with extreme prejudice I find against you in this one area. And frankly, I'm thinking of just throwing this whole thing out of my court. Understandable. but you've disappointed me. But you can redeem yourself by finding a brand loyalty that is perhaps not so rational and colloidal as mayonnaise. Of course. It's really hard to think of one off the top of my head. Ketchup. Ketchup, sure. Are you saying that your child, Ray,

has non-Heinz ketchup in the house? Judy? Sometimes. I have been to her house where there has not been Heinz ketchup. And you are Heinz, I presume, straight down the middle. Everybody is. Yeah. You know, like that famous folk character, Tallahassee Heinz.

That's why. Exactly. If you're in Tallahassee, you have Hines. Same with vegetables. Go ahead. What do you mean? You can't get the generic canned vegetables. They weren't rinsed as well.

They always have that little bit of gritty sand. Ray, why is your mom beating up on you like this? I think she just enjoys it. Oh, no. I mean. That's true. What are kids for? She does regularly tell people I had children for the tax break and to bother them.

Yeah. I remember from a very young age her putting on a Halloween mask and going around to the back windows of the house to scare us. And her entire outlook of parenthood is uh bothering in a fun way like a like a little bit of grit in the oyster that causes the pearl to form right yes or a little bit of soil in the canopies that just give it a little bit of roughage that makes it go down easier when it's layered in the right place of your stomach. That's called parenting. And an extremely mixed metaphor, which I suppose you don't approve of, Judy, because you don't mix metaphors, do you?

Put them down in layers. In my defense. Yeah. I was raised in the military. My dad was military. So we moved all over the place. And I was raised by my dad and three older brothers. I was the youngest.

I was the only girl. Were you teased much then? So much. Right. Did your dad and your three brothers, did they like to explain how the world worked to you with incredible authority? Oh, yes. You ever want to take that out on someone else after it was after it was foisted upon you i did ray and her sister right and no regrets no regrets we talked

about goats earlier and how they eat everything and no no without any consideration to the order in which it goes into their billy goat maw. Speaking of goats, do you believe in this layering thing, or are you just trying to get Ray's goat? I think the most fun that I have out of it is getting her goat. Yeah. And knowing that she has a little one that I can just fill his little brain with all the things that drive his mother crazy. Wow. That's quite a grandparental mission that hasn't been expressed so openly on the

Judge John Hodgman podcast before. They told me to be honest, so. Ray, we can't fault your mom's honesty, at least. That's true. That's true. Her mission statement is out there, ready for the world to hear. Do you feel that your goat has gotten got sufficiently and that she should stop getting your goat at this point? Well, I wouldn't say, I wouldn't order her to stop completely. I just want her to confess that she is just doing it for a laugh and that she doesn't believe it's actually true.

Wow. And that she doesn't believe it's actually true. Wow. Your Honor, her biggest thing is for you to tell me that I'm never allowed to tell my grandson that his food goes down in layers. That's what she's scared of. Thank you for robbing your child of their agency and speaking their mind for them. Ray, just for confirmation, since your mom has already obviously expressed your point of view for you,

is that what you would have me order in this case? I wouldn't have that be a complete order because I do see the value in jokes and pranks and fun and good nature. I do have a child whose brain is like a sponge and you have to be careful what you say otherwise they will believe it and repeat it so i i wouldn't say that uh she has to completely stop with the silliness but maybe just don't hold it as uh such high truth i have a question to ask

before i go into my chambers this This goes back a little bit. Judy, Ray says that your process is to eat least favorite to most favorite. So give me a sense of what your least favorite foods are and which are your most favorite foods. Well, least favorite that I will not eat at all. Not even as a base layer? Oh, no, no. Mushrooms and fish. If you haven't had a good mushroom fish parfait, you are missing out, ma'am.

That's mushroom, fish, granola, yogurt, strawberries. Yes. The classics. Yes, the classics. But if you were to eat your turkey and butter sandwich in the layer system, least to most favorite ingredient, what would it be? Just so I understand. I just want to picture you deconstructing it. The toast, the butter, and the turkey. I would eat the turkey first because it is dry. And then probably the toast.

And then what kid hasn't just ate butter to eat butter when they were younger? So I would probably eat the butter last. You're talking to a kid who ate a bowl of mayonnaise. Yes. In one of your formative experiences in life, I think. I think about it every day. I think about doing it every day. I live with it every day.

But you did mention something earlier that you eat or ate when you were younger, and it is still one of my favorite food groups to this day. I have a bag in my cabinet at home as we speak. What is it? Smarties. Oh, I was just trying to think of something. I don't like them. Oh, really? They're amazing. Smarties are good. I'm with you on Smarties. I really like Smarties. People act like they're one of those old-timey candies that's not anything, like Necco wafers, which are legitimately a little bit gross. How dare you? I think Smarties are good.

Smarties are amazing. The only Necco wafer I eat is the black one, licorice. I have taken my child to multiple parades for various holidays and town events. And when they throw candy out on the streets and all the kids go and, you know, put it in their pockets. When you walk home, the only candy left on the sidewalk is Smarties. So it is a low tier candy. They're probably leaving it for me. Or me.

Yeah, I was going to say your mom's following the parade with a with a dustpan and broom just sweeping up every smarty. All the smarties. Did you learn the layer system from your dad, Judy? I believe so because growing up in the military, we were on a budget. The only vegetables I can remember eating growing up until we got back into the States was canned corn, canned green beans, canned peas, you know, so we would have meatloaf and peas. Right.

And mashed potatoes. And do you think that the layer system might have been a technique to get you to clean your plate? Oh, we definitely cleaned our plate before we got up. Right. But like eat the thing you like the least first, get it over with. Yes. And then go forward.

Because you're not making any medical claims here. No, I am not. Other than your anecdotal claim that when you eat a sandwich like a normal sandwich, you feel a little fuller than if you pick it apart and deconstruct your turkey butter sandwich. Yeah. Or if you just overeat. Because it's good. And if I were to rule in your favor,

Judy, what would you have me rule? That Ray would have to admit that as I've known all along, her mother's right. She's always right. It says here that you are right on all accounts, specifically? Pretty much everything. All right, I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into my chambers and I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ray, how are you feeling about your chances? You know, I don't know.

I came into it slightly confident, but listening to a previous episode, the judge himself said that food layered in your stomach like a parfait. I can't remember which episode that was, but it was said. So I don't know. My chances might be pretty low. Thanks for not bringing up that precedent until now. I mean, that's pretty harsh evidence against my case.

Judy, how are you feeling? I'm feeling kind of iffy. I feel pretty good about the name brand food choices. I think I'll get ruled in my favor on that one. Not too sure about the coffee one. Not too sure about the layering. Although I did see a movie where two great scholars did say that things do have layers. What movie was that, Judy? Shrek. Ogres have layers.

Onions, parfaits. The parfait part was implied. If you can't trust Shrek and Donkey, who can you trust? Are there other things you're trying to convince your grandchild of that are obviously false? Are you trying to trick this two-year-old into thinking that Quincy M.D. is on public television? Not yet, because like Ray said, he's just a little over two. But when he gets older and I can kidnap him for, you know, little times out of the year, older and I can kidnap him for, you know, little times out of the year, he'll go home with just a brain full of knowledge from his grandma. Well, my mom and grandfather in cahoots did

convince my little sister that in Florida, they only drink chicken milk instead of cow milk. So. That rules. She was like six or seven and believed it. I had mixed feelings about who should win this case until I heard about the chicken milk. Now I'm all in. I'm supposed to be objective. This chicken milk thing is blowing my mind.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there yeah i'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p-p-p-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close.

Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case. Let's talk about what we've got going on. What's going on with you? First of all, I want to say thank you to everyone who came out to San Francisco Sketch Fest and saw us at the Palace of Fine Arts. What a wonderful night of fun and justice.

Especially my mom. You know, my mom texted me right before the show. Yeah. And she said, did you ask strangers to have fights with me on Judge John Hodgman? I did. I did. I had to try and explain that we were looking for, it was a whole thing, you know? We as a podcast won't be hitting the road again for a little while. We'll certainly let you know when we do with plenty of advance notice so that we can see you again. What fun.

I am doing a couple of things out in the world that you may want to know about. One is the return of the Solid Sound Festival to Western Massachusetts. That's Wilco's, the band's, big arts and music festival. Two big shows from Wilco surrounded by all kinds of other incredible art projects and bands and performances. surrounded by all kinds of other incredible art projects and bands and performances. And as has happened over the past several years, I have hosted the comedy stage. We're going to make a big announcement of our comedy lineup very soon, but there's no reason why you can't go over to solidsoundfestival.com and look up the current lineup and get your tickets now because it's a really good time.

And if you'd like to meet me face-to-face on the high seas, I have a special offer for you. Yes, I mentioned before that I am rejoining the Jonathan Colton cruise, the Joko cruise, departing from Fort Lauderdale and going throughout the Caribbean in March. And I have a special offer. If you book your cruise now at jococruise.com and use code Hodgman24, that's my name, H-O-D-G-M-A-N 24 at checkout, Hodgman24, they will send me a note saying that you did it. And then I will play Scrabble with you on board the ship. Wow. Yeah. I will have a game of scrabble with you i would do yahtzee as well oh i would do scrabble i would do yahtzee i would do monopoly deal uno i will not do uno sorry i will not do these are not games what if it's pop-o-matic sorry i maybe i would do pop-o-matic sorry i'm not going to do spellcaster to get along or any of those with you because

they're too complicated but I will play Scrabble with you on board the ship one on one or three on one depending on how many are in your party and I'll do it for each person who books using Hodgman 24 when they check out at JokoCruise.com

and I don't know how many there will be but I'm very happy to do that because it's something I can do and enjoy. And I haven't been playing Scrabble that much. So don't think I'm going to be very good at it. You'll probably beat me. Jesse Thorne, what do you have going on? Well, it's the very last moments

of the very special discount for Judge John Hodgman listeners in the Put This On Shop. If you use the code 2024JUSTICE, you will get 25% off in the Put This On Shop. If you use the code 2024JUSTICE, you will get 25% off in the Put This On Shop. Full 25% off 2024JUSTICE at putthisonshop.com. There's a lot of great stuff that you can get. I just got to make some room, basically.

So 2024JUSTICE for 25% off anything in that put this on shop. 2024 justice. Put this on shop.com. Let's get back to the show. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. First of all, we need to call a coroner because RIP Jesse.p jesse's inbox because it's not quincy md jesse the name of the program is quincy m.e medical examiner medical examiner starring jack klugman i'm very old i've got my grave on speed dial we should i should have brought in our friend

jimmy pardo from never Not Funny to do his Quincy Emmy impression because it's all he really cares about in the world, this talking like Quincy Emmy. Well, I'll tell you what, listener, if you listen to the end of the credits, maybe you'll hear a clip of Jimmy Pardo doing Quincy Emmy. Maybe. If you listen all the way through the plugs and the ads and the credits, you might get a little surprise.

Marvel Cinematic Universe style after the credits. Meanwhile, producer Jennifer Marmer has been so kind to send me a transcript from our holiday office party episode of last year, 2023, in which Jesse Thorne said, I too need food in my stomach to go with the sheer volume of orange soda eggnog and five cup salad that's in there.

And I, Judge John Hodren, responded saying, please don't give me all the parfait layers of what we put into our bodies today. We were trying a lot of different foods in a lot of different layers, including eggnog and orange soda, which, by the way, thanks for everybody who wrote in to say they tried it and it wasn't that gross. But, Ray, you're off the hook there because I think it's pretty clear in context that I was speaking figuratively, not literally. And we are only speaking figuratively here today. Now, I'm going to say this because I didn't realize going into this, I'm very grateful, honestly, that Judy's five-layer salad convention of eating food is only an issue of preference

and passed-down family lore rather than it is a conviction that this is somehow more healthy or even, for that matter, true. Like, we can set aside the science to a certain degree. I will say that aside from Dr. Someday Rex, which is an incredible name for a new medical examiner show, Dr. Someday, I did find a press release from Cornell Weill Medical Center saying that Dr. Louis Aron, one of their diabetes care specialists, had found through research that eating protein and vegetables before carbohydrates leads to lower post-meal glucose and insulin levels in obese patients with type 2 diabetes. It's a very narrow case study to suggest an overall sense of it perhaps does have an effect what order you put the food into your body. But I think that that might have more to do with the fact that the body digests water and carbohydrates first and proteins and lipids later.

I don't think that it means that it literally layers in the stomach and lines up. to support a personal preference, which is absolutely fine, and an opportunity of goat-getting with regard to your child, and soon, perhaps, depending on my ruling, your grandchild. I would say that everyone, when they eat, should not follow Judy's rule, or anyone's, but to listen to their body and eat the foods that make them feel healthy and comfortable and should be consulting with a doctor or a dietician if they're going to give it that much thought at all. And I would even argue, think about it less. I think it was Julia Child, one of the many quotes that I went through who said, you can't digest well on a worried

stomach, so why are you worrying about all the food that you eat all the time? We all know the basics of how to eat a healthy diet. And one of the best ways to eat healthfully is to manage your relationship with the food and not think in terms of hard and fast rules all the time, unless you have a medical condition which requires it. And in this regard, while I think you're one of the great go-getters of all moms, Judy. Thank you. And I appreciate Peapaw being perhaps the standard bearer of goat getting in this family, even before you. Yes, you would love him.

I bet I would. And as far as Ray is concerned, so long as you are able to hear it, if Ray says this far, no further with regard to the goat getting. If Ray is sincerely taking it in good humor and is not being hurt by it. And Ray, stop me if I'm wrong. Right. Then, Judy, you are authorized to go get your goat. And Ray, you're authorized to give that goat right back. She does.

authorized to give that goat right back. She does. But I will thematically appropriately issue a gag order on the layered food theory when it comes to your grandchild, Judy. Your honor. I'm the one talking now. I'm sorry, sir. Shut your pie hole, ma'am. Yeah.

Thank you very much. I appreciate that. That would be eating some crust and then some filling and then some latticed crust. That's right. In that order and no other. But Judy, I will allow your objection. Let me hear it. It wasn't an objection, sir. It was more of a question. I only have one grandchild. So does this just pertain to him? Or if I have future grandchildren, can I just fill their little brains with knowledge? Were you in the military? You looking for loopholes much?

Wow. Here are the regs, the rules and regulations. Darn it. Here's the thing. That's between your child and your grandchild. And we have lots of new ways of thinking about how children develop their palates. And basically the feeling is they're a lot more open-minded than we used to think.

Kids rarely suffer such nutritional deprivation that this idea that you have to clean your plate is anything but punitive and dramatic. They like what they like, like all human beings. Also, kids develop food aversions, and some have wider variety of foods they're interested in. And the best practice, it would seem, is just to make lots of food available to kids and let them develop their own palate and their own time, and also not give them a lot of

rules. Like, do not give them a lot of rules that might cause them to overthink and think uncomfortably about food because that is unhealthy. And even if you don't agree with that, it's really between a parent and a child, respectfully, not even the weirdest grandparent and a child deserve to have that kind of relationship. So you keep eating your food your way, but I would not make it a point of your relationship between you and your grandchild because it's just, there's no reason for it. It's not that kids don't think about food. They love food, but you don't want to be giving them rules that cause them to overthink it. Now, especially since your argument is not even that people should eat this way. It's that you like to eat that way. Right. And that it is the

best way to eat. I mean, you're not even making an argument that is healthy or unhealthy or whatever it is. So I would just say in this one regard, you keep it to yourself. Otherwise, best foods and Hellman's are the same. But Hellman's and Duke's are different. Avocado oil mayonnaise is different than egg-based mayonnaise. And none of it is Miracle Whip. Maintain your standards, Judy and Tallahassee. I appreciate them. And you may not be pushed off of them.

Continue to live your weird mom life. Continue to be a weird but loving mom and a goat getter as far as your as your children are concerned so long as that you will hear them and stop if they say oh mom stop definitely but leave the seven layer stomach theory to the past this is the sound of a gavel onions have layers ogres have layers we both have layers judge john John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ray, are you satisfied?

I think so. My mom continues to be weird. So that's great because I do love her weirdisms. I get a little bit more control when it comes to the parenting situation. He doesn't get a bunch of weird ideas in his head. So that leaves room for me to give him weird ideas one day. Do you have any big plans? Nothing yet, but I'm sure I'll come up with something good.

Judy, how are you feeling? I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. I like to mess with my girls just because I love them so much and I know it irritates them. So I will refrain from telling my grandson that his food goes down in layers. Definitely. Judy Ray, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. It was fun. Thank you so much. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books.

We'll have swift justice in just a second. Our thanks to Redditor Jenny Neway for naming this week's episode Chew Process. Join the conversation over at the Maximum Fund subreddit. That's at maximumfund.reddit.com. We ask for our title suggestions there too. So keep an eye out for those. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram

account at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. Make sure to follow us there. If you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts, give us a rating and review. Please, it makes a big difference for the show if you go in. I think this week is please review us in Apple Podcasts week. Shout out to Apple Podcasts, a mainstay of our listenership for 12 years or however long we've been doing this show. Yeah, for sure. But if you haven't rated and reviewed the show in Apple Podcasts, it really does make a big difference for it to climb up the charts and for people to discover the show. So this week is the time to do it. Go into Apple Podcasts and rate and review the show.

Judge John Hodgman, of course, was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode was engineered by Eric Fredrissey at Boise State Public Radio and by Taylor Cox at WFSU in Tallahassee, Florida.

A.J. McKeon is our editor. Maria Barty Salinas runs our social media. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Trilobite whatever on the Maximum Fun subreddit says, and now that's a Reddit name, trilobite whatever. Trilobite whatever is great. My stepdad, who I love, will not turn any heating on unless we beg. He is controlled by an obsessive

fear of wasting money. Please rule that my stepdad needs to move past this compulsion so that we can enjoy our time together and feel cozy. So I was listening to a great podcast by Allie Ward called Ologies, where Allie was interviewing a friend of our podcast, Helen Saltzman, who has the amazing Illusionist podcast, which deals a lot with etymology and word origin. They were talking about word origin. And I learned something that I didn't know, which is that the etymology of step in stepparent

is from an old English via German word steop, meaning orphan, and is associated with grief. It is a grief parent. Now, obviously, I love that you love your stepdad, Trillibite, whatever. And there is many a blended family where everyone is extremely happy and happier, happier together than they might have been otherwise. And there are so many, what we call step-parents or bonus parents, who are incredible parents. Do you know what I mean? But I think that if I were coming into a family as a step-parent, one thing I would want to do and put at a high

priority in my mind is make sure that the kids are warm enough. I don't know how long this family has been blended. I still would be extra cognizant that the health and baseline happiness of my stepkids is more important than my money-saving schemes. So Trillibite, whatever, stepdad, turn that heat up. Meanwhile, speaking of the cold, Jesse, it's really cold now. For a lot of this winter, it wasn't cold. Now it's really cold now. For a lot of this winter, it wasn't cold. Now it's really cold. Those of us in the northern hemisphere

we're still months away from spring. I'm very cold right now here in my office. John, here in Los Angeles, we're celebrating Sweater Week. Yeah, exactly. Also, I believe you had a drop of rain so the whole city came to a standstill. No one can go outside.

Exactly. I'm cooped up at home with my partner who's also a whole human being in her own right Also, I believe you had a drop of rain, so the whole city came to a standstill. No one can go outside. I'm cooped up at home with my partner, who's also a whole human being in her own right, and we love each other very much. But you know that it's too close, and no amount of hygge is going to stop disputes from happening. Hygge is some sort of Scandinavian coziness, right? Hygge means Scandinavian coziness. It means cozy in a socialist context. Democratic socialist, yeah. You must have some close-quartered conflicts as well out there. Are you cooped up in your dorm and your roommate's lava lamp is keeping you awake at night?

Is your partner or spouse's new crafting hobby taking over the living room? Are you aboard the Royal Caribbean Ultimate World Cruise and feuding with another passenger? Are you following the world cruise, Jesse? No, I'm not familiar with this. There's going to be some weird stuff happening by day 200 of that world cruise. I'd love to hear some disputes from the world cruise. Send us your disputes with people that you're cooped up with. Anyone that you're too close for comfort with physically or figuratively right now.

Send in your disputes to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Hashtag too close for comfort. But we don't think about all your disputes, right, Jesse? Of course. Any dispute on any subject. No case is too small. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

All right, here is the I don't really do an impression of Quincy, but here is my Quincy. That was no accident. It was murder. You're welcome. Maximum Fun, a worker owned network of artists owned shows

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