Knowledge Fight - #638: See You At The Cross-Rhodes

Episode Date: January 19, 2022

Today, Dan and Jordan poke around a little more about the recent Stewart Rhodes arrest news. In this installment, the gents discuss Alex's "previously unreleased" interview about Stewart being accused of being a fed, and meet the silliest insurrectionist. Citations

I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys knowledge fight. Dan and George, knowledge fight. Need money. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. Stop it. Andy and Kansas. Andy and Kansas. It's time to pray. Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a Christian caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. Knowledge fight. Knowledge fight. I love you. Everybody. Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Celine and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed we are, Dan. Jordan. Dan, I have a quick question for you, sir. Sure. What is your bright spot today? I don't know. Why don't you go first? Oh, well, I mean, my bright spot. Obviously,

Dan is that now that all the Djokovic stuff has been taken care of, has it? Yeah, he got deported from Australia, but I don't know if this stuff is done. It's done. I feel like there's still going to be some chaos. He's not coming back. He can't go. He can't even go to Australia for the next three years. But I mean, for now, it maybe has died down, but that doesn't mean there's not going to be more trouble. Oh, it's going to be more trouble. Yeah. But beyond that, the Australian Open has begun. Sure. And all three of my rooting interests won with Djokovic out of the way. Rafa's got a real clear path. You know he does, but it's the favorite this year. I would say it's probably Medvedev. Okay. Wait, the president of Russia. Daniel Medvedev. He's a tennis player, sir.

Yeah, no, but Rafa, he's got a good shot. Andy Murray, old man Andy Murray is back. Exactly. Exactly. He hasn't been relevant for tennis in the past 10 years and he's back. And he won last night as a wild card. It was incredible. And then Nick Kerrios is also, he's still going along strong and I can't wait for him to put it all together someday. All right. He won't, but it'll be great. I'm happy for you enjoying your tennis. Indeed. Now, what is your bright spot now that you've had time to ignore me? My bright spot is it's going to be what comes up at the end of this episode? Honestly? Okay. I can't spoil it. Your bright spot is a tease. My bright spot. Yes. We'll come to pass at the end of this episode. Something that I was reminded of. I knew

about this thing and I was reminded of it in preparation for this episode and I could not stop laughing. Okay. And so we'll get down to all that business. But first before we get into the episode that will lead us to my bright spot. Let's take a little moment, Jordan, to say hello to some new wonks. Oh, that's a great idea. So first, so long, 2021, Blackjack, suck it, Jordan. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you so much. Well done. Thank you very much. Next, Grandpa Jerry. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks, Grandpa Jerry. Thank you. Next, Aaron from Massachusetts. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much, Aaron. Thank you. Next, the X

Communication Station podcast. We talk about the weird, wild and wicked reexperience growing up in the evangelical church. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much for buying ad space, apparently. Listen, I have no problem giving a shout out to using like a plug or whatever. I don't know. I don't know if we need a bio. There's a difference between a shout out and an ad read. Yeah, that was a bit of an ad read there. Next, Megan. And thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thanks, Megan. And Sid Vicious Conspiracy. Thank you so much. You're now a policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Access V. C. This last name is actually pretty appropriate and relevant to today's episode,

because obviously it's a play on seditious conspiracy. Sure. Sid Vicious Conspiracy. Yes. And today we're going to be talking a little bit more about Stuart Rhodes and his dirty business. Great. Great. We're going to have a fun time. So I got to I got to thinking and, you know, wrestling with on our last episode, Alex mentioned that there was an interview that he did with Stuart Rhodes that was a disaster. And Stuart freaked out on him. And so Alex never posted it. Right. I was curious about this because I knew that Stuart had been on since the sixth. Sure. I knew that there had been a number of times that he'd come in and said like, hey, we got set up. This was bullshit. Yeah, you know that kind of thing. And so I didn't know if this was one of those

interviews that Alex was just misrepresenting and he had put it out or what. But it turned out that on band.video. Alex posted this old interview that he had never put up. Yeah. Well, you have to under the headline. Like you can never buy me. You can't talk me out of this. You can't threaten me. Oh boy. I'm Stuart Rhodes, the king of the world or whatever. Geez, something close to that. Yeah. And so I was like, this looks familiar to me too. Like it seemed like I had seen that before. I'm not sure that I had, but I decided to watch it. And I don't know why Alex characterized it the way he did. There's not really a fight in it or anything, but I did find it interesting. And so I decided I was going to cover that for today's episode and see where the mood took me. Sure.

See where things went. So today we're going to be talking about this interview that Alex recorded on July 2nd, 2021. Blackjack. Ah, come on. Come on. And it was supposed to air on the fourth and then it never did. And I actually can confirm that because I went and I checked the July 4th show and instead of an interview with Stuart, yeah, Alex interviews Judge Joe Brown. Hey, what? Can he do that? You can. Judge Joe Brown went on it for worse. Yeah. He's been on a bit in the, not like a ton, but every now and again, he's shown up. What a weird thing. I had no idea was true. We've actually talked about it before. Exactly. So here's the thing. At this point, an article had come out about Stuart calling him a fed. Right. The right wing was like,

you're a goddamn fed because you haven't been arrested. Yeah. And so this is how Alex starts up the interview and starts up the conversations like, Hey, we got to talk about this. Hey, are you a fucking fed man? Stuart Rhodes is the founder of Oath Keepers. I guess 11 years ago, he's been quite in the spotlight since January 6th. He was in it obviously before that. And I wanted to give him a chance to come on because we saw this revolver article that came out basically saying unindicted co-conspirators in one sixth case raised disturbing questions of federal foreknowledge. I thought that was a pretty important article because clearly the feds have

been involved, provocaturing things before, but then there's a new article out that I had a lot of questions about on air and off air. And that's a story basically, well, federal protection of Oath Keeper Kingpin, Stuart Rhodes breaks the entire capital insurrection lies wide open. So this revolver article was one of the early attempts to create the false flag narrative that would stick with the right wing media community. It was a, I don't think it really totally worked because things have evolved since then. It was an interesting first attempt given how like what we've seen since then, but reading it does give you a sense of the sort of facts that they were wrestling with last June and into July, which they've essentially decided to all

conveniently forget since. Yeah, that's nice. For instance, this article points out that most of the attention in that media space has been directed towards fighting back against the events of January six being an insurrection, because most of the people who went into the capital were tourists like MAGA moms who wandered a little further than they should have. However, this article argues that they should start dealing with the reality that a separate group of folks were there and active that day. Quote, up until now, the overwhelming, perhaps exclusive share of the counter establishment reporting on one six has focused on absolving the first group. And this is a valuable thing. The notion that these harmless MAGA moms wandering around the

capital where domestic terrorists engaged in an insurrection is absurd. However, the possibility that the federal government had undercover operatives or informants involved in the events of one six from its planning to its execution compels us to turn our attention to the second category of participants. We're especially interested in the unindicted co conspirators who belong to any of the big three militia groups, the oathkeepers, the proud boys and the three percenters. Indeed, it is these militia groups whose behavior, statements and planning leading up to and during one six most closely aligned with the violent insurrectionist caricature we hear about in the media in which the government claims to have been going after in its aggressive

prosecutions. Okay, so the person who wrote this article has been killed, right? Nope. He's actually it's actually Darren Beatty who was in Tucker Carlson's Patriot Purge documentary. He was not in it. Yeah. God damn it. Yeah. These people just get away with it. Everything. So unreal. Person who's writing this article is fully aware of the fact that members of the oathkeepers, proud boys and three percenters had been talking shit in planning about doing exactly what happened on the sixth. And that fact is really inconvenient for the right wing media that spent years protecting these groups and pretending that they're actually just the victims of Antifa and the protectors of Patriots. Right, right, right. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We didn't mean for you to do the

things we told you to do. Yeah. And we knew you were doing and you would in order to counter this problem. It's essential to make the very obvious right wing extremists into government operatives doing a false flag. And at this point, at least Revolver was totally willing to throw folks like the oathkeepers and the proud boys under the bus. The recent indictment of Thomas Caldwell, one of the oathkeepers who is now charged along with Stuart and the seditious conspiracy case, included a couple of unnamed co-conspirators. When I say recent, I mean recent to this article. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. So this article is decided to interpret these as people who are feds. In reality, that's an unarmed conclusion because these co-conspirators may well

have been unnamed because naming them could do damage to the building of another more important case, possibly like a case charging Stuart with a seditious conspiracy. Anyway, in June 2021, there was at least some willingness on the part of the right wing media to cut bait with more extreme groups in their ranks and portray them as feds in order to save face. This probably didn't stick because for a while didn't seem like any legal action was happening. The heat kind of died down and it didn't feel like there was any real need to throw these guys out after all. That was a huge mistake from a propaganda tactics perspective. All of these people knew damn well that the folks who were acting like military units and stormed the capital were their militia buddies. And they

should have known that it was only a matter of time before that was going to come out and is going to look really bad to be associated with them. So the other article about Stuart being the Oathkeeper's kingpin who's being protected by the feds, that's just another revolver article also written by Darren Beatty. So it's a stupid article that's just based on the fact that Stuart hadn't been indicted yet, which was probably the result of the investigators needing to lay sufficient groundwork that they so they wouldn't end up going off half cocked and charging a revolutionary minded militia leader with a charge that wouldn't stick and then give him a massive propaganda victory to use to rally his army. No, turning him not just from martyr to untouchable god hero,

that's that's a good idea. Yeah, when you're dealing with someone like Stuart Rhodes, you cannot miss. So it makes absolute sense the investigators would first prosecute some lower level cases in order to build the information base that they needed to charge Stuart. And that's exactly what Attorney General Merritt Garland said was the DOJ strategy and his speech that was commemorating the anniversary of the sixth. When he said we watched the wire recently and the guy said if you come at the king, you best not miss and he's the kingpin. So we kind of just and when you walk through the garden, you got to watch your back. You got to watch your back. Quote, we build investigations by laying a foundation. We resolve more straightforward

cases first because they provide the evidentiary foundation for more complex cases. Investigating the more overt crimes generates linkages to less overt ones. Overt actors and the evidence they provide can lead us to others who may have been involved. And that evidence can serve as the foundation for further investigative leads and techniques. Yeah, you've seen law and order. It's basically exactly what was going on. Yeah. Darren Beatty at Revolver was doing exactly what he should have been doing from a propaganda and cover up perspective. He was attempting to protect the larger right wing grift machine that relies on inciting revolutionary feelings by smearing and disowning the people who actually followed through with those revolutionary feelings.

So like I think he was doing what he should have been doing in terms of the scams and all that. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. But there wasn't a commitment to it. And apparently people decided, no, we prefer our revolution. We want to kill. Yeah. I mean, come on. That's why we're all here. Yeah. Let's do this. It's a really interesting dynamic to go back and look at to read those articles and be like, yeah, y'all y'all should have. Yeah. Like obviously Stuart Rhodes isn't a Fed, but if that's what you need in order to extricate yourself from him and the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys, right, you should have done that. Right. If you if you're interested in maintaining the business that you're doing. Right. I mean, but that's just like what we talked about

last time with. They can only flourish in a stable system and then because they create instability, they break down their own system. And this is them trying to correct exactly to create that stable system. Darren Beatty is trying to write the ship essentially. So much smarter. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to give you why he's dead now. I don't want to give him credit, but it is what you would do if you were doing a better job. Right. Right. Right. If you weren't an incompetent moron, that is what you would do more or less. Yeah. So anyway, Stuart comes in, he's pissed off about this article, but he's very happy about one particular person. Stuart, thanks for joining us. Yeah, thank you. And I want to give a shout out to Harrison Smith.

He got an awesome reporter there yesterday. He pretty much dismantled the revolver hit piece on me and called it what it is, a salacious, you know, defamatory hit piece. And he went through it paragraph by paragraph by paragraph on the American Journal. Did a great job. Way to go, Harrison. Wow. Man, a lot of stuff you say in retrospect about Harrison Smith and complimenting him always just makes me think the capital has fallen right right to the Patriots. One. I went, I went back and I watched the videos that Harrison did about this because he did a video debunking the revolver piece, which I would spend my time going over, but I don't care. No, but he did another video after Stuart got arrested, rebunking the revolver piece. No, he he was doing it. Oh,

does this prove he's not a fed now? But one of the things that I thought was fascinating about that video is he's pretending he wasn't on air on January 6th, saying the capital has fallen, the Patriots are in charge. It's really weird. I mean, that's that's just one of those things that should really stick with you. Yeah, that one. You own that one. You wear it like a badge on your chest. You should get a face tattoo. The capital has fallen. Quote me. No more, no more prison. We're just putting quotes from Harrison Smith tattooed on your forehead. So Stuart, like, look, man, this is a defamatory hit piece, but honestly, like he can laugh it off. Sure. But also he's going to sue pathetic. It's a pathetic hit piece. It's like,

you know, Darren Beatty is writing for Southern probably a law center or Buzzfeed. That's what it sounds like. Get his ass out. And it's got Pete Santilli's fingerprints all over it and saying crap he's been spewing and some kind of weird vendetta obsession he has with me and someone's like a man crush obsession, I think. So, you know, whenever someone does a hit piece like this, their goal is try to crush you. And, you know, bad guys know that one way to crush me is to accuse me of being a traitor to my country. Nothing more important to me. You know, only my devotion to Christ is above my devotion to my country. And so they hope to crush you. But you know what, I laughed yesterday. I laughed my ass off when I read that because it's so ridiculous. I mean,

I'm not going to sue him. I'll be suing Darren Beatty and I'll be suing Pete Santilli for defamation. So we'll see him court. I laugh this off, but also I'm suing. Yeah. Yeah. This is silly. He's got a man crush on me. So I'm going to spend the rest of my next six to eight months in a room with him as much as possible. A little contradictory from what your reaction actually is standpoint. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, this, why were you laughing so hard then? I just, I just, you can't give me this juxtaposition of the guy who's literally in jail for sedition, screaming, I love my country so much. There's nothing I wouldn't do for my country. Well, you've got to think that that's what the Confederacy would say. Of course. That's exactly what they think. That's how they think.

Yeah. Bunch of idiots. They're, they're dedicated or like someone like Stuart is dedicated to his country, but his, his country is only a conception that exists in his mind and it is not the shared reality that we all have. Oh no. Of how our government and civics work. Yeah. And he's hostile to that. Oh no, no, no, despises his country as it stands. And he hates fucking Pete Santilli. Well, who doesn't know Pete Santilli is a guy who has been a guest on Alex's show a bit. He's a radio host who was also at the like Bundy Ranch and at the Malhoor. Great. The occupation there. I believe it was at the Malhoor one that he ended up getting arrested and those charges ended up getting dropped. Sure. That's sort of a big feather in the Santilli cap.

And that's kind of why we're looking at the length of time it took to get to Stuart Rhodes is because they fucked up the Bundy shit so incredibly badly. It seems, it seems like you could have, you could have maybe arrested Stuart back then. Probably. I don't know if those charges would have stuck again. Important not to go off half cock. Exactly. With revolution areas. Yeah. But so, so Stuart talks a little bit here about his beef with Pete Santilli. Again, I almost don't want to like drill into all this and pass stuff on the ranch and pass stuff. The wildlife rescue or a refuge. But, but just, I mean, I've had Santilli on because I think he was set up by the feds. Thank God he got out of jail. But what is the issue between you and Pete

Santilli? Well, for one, I opposed the Malhoor occupation that was stupid and it was, you know, about half, what about dozen provocateurs were there. And before Emily even did it, I knew he's going to do something stupid. So this is actually a good point to bring up, which is a good indication that Stuart probably actually has a track record of thinking for himself and making decisions. You might think that someone like the head of the oathkeepers would be in favor of every single right wing cause celeb, but that's not actually true. Stuart, he was in favor of and he took part in the Bundy Ranch standoff in 2014, but he was very critical of the Malhoor wildlife refuge standoff. Initially, he didn't want the oathkeepers to get involved at all and thought that it

wasn't a fight that was worth their time or even had like a righteous cause to it. Yeah. But eventually he did give in and he sent quote an oathkeeper team to Oregon, albeit without long guns or camouflage gear and only to quote, keep the peace. Great. I mean, just, just so kind of them. That's what I think when I hear that Pete Santilli was deep in the Malhoor game. So this could explain some of the tension between him and Stuart. But if you look a little bit deeper at that period around the Malhoor occupation, you begin to see some real disillusionment with Stuart as the head of the organization and some of it did involve Pete Santilli. Stuart was not a very popular guy after some of the events at the Bundy Ranch or Bunkerville,

as many called it. It's easy to remember that he and the oathkeepers were there, but it's less well remembered how they ended up leaving. From an article by the SPLC quote, in May 2014, the oathkeepers were a fixture at Clive and Bundy's cattle ranch in Nevada and tell Rhodes claimed to have received intelligence of an imminent drone strike. In response, he pulled oathkeepers out of what he called the kill zone, which led other militiamen at the camp to talk openly about shooting Rhodes for desertion. In the end, they voted unanimously to oust the oathkeepers and the drone strike never came. Rhodes was a bit humiliated and he laid low for a bit, but popped up after that, the shooting that happened in Dallas in 2015,

where five police officers were shot and killed. Stuart reemerged, which apparently pissed off some people. Susan Delamis, the wife of an oathkeeper who was at Bunkerville, wrote an article titled quote, Stuart Rhodes comes out of hiding and has the nerve to ask, will you take up arms to fight Marxist terrorism? This article was published and was spread wide by Pete Santilli. So it seems like this beef with them predates Malhoor and may have something to do with it. Right, right, right, in the intervening years, there have been some oathkeeper cells that have broken with the national organization, specifically because of a distrust with Stuart. There was a cell in Josephine County, Oregon, who had carried off a successful and far less publicized standoff with law enforcement

at the sugar pine mine. And they kind of had enough. Their local leader, Joseph Rice said, quote, we have flag rank officers and senior officers military retired that have made the statement that they would not join the group as long as Stuart Rhodes was in charge. Stuart is not a leader. He has no leadership ability. He self promotes Rice would also say, quote, like a moth to the flame, he flies in, throws up a PayPal and then disappears. One of the big issues too with this group here that from Josephine County, Oregon is that because they achieved what they had set out to with the standoff, the standoff and occupation of the sugar pine mine, this was used as a giant, a giant marketing piece for the oathkeepers of like, this is the kind of successes

we have. Right, right, right, right. Where I believe the people on the local tip didn't feel like the national organization really was responsible for the success that they had while we're trying to take credit for it. Right, right, right. So in the stretch between Bunkerville and Malhoor, there had been some dissension in the ranks related to Stuart's ability as a leader. And a bit of this was publicized by Pete Santilli. And then Santilli was there at Malhoor and even got arrested there while Stuart had to go back on his initial position to not get involved by sending some oathkeepers in after all. Folks like Stuart are basically unable to accept personal responsibility. So I would assume that he blames Pete for some of how those bad times happened

and the damage that it did to his reputation. I would say that hopefully getting arrested for a seditious conspiracy helps Stuart get some of his street cred back on does the damage that Pete Santilli did to his, uh, his, his terrorist cred. Yeah, that is, that is kind of funny. The thing about having a leaderless resistance is that your local leader would like the credit for his shit and the national leader can go fuck himself. I would argue that maybe the local leader just doesn't want the national leader taking credit. Yeah. Well, no, for sure. You could, you can imagine not knowing anything about the guy who was the local leader. Oh, perhaps he was more interested in the solidarity of his people. Oh, he's a good leader. I'm not saying that, but maybe he fancies

himself that if he's Stuart Rhodes as not that. Right. I don't know. Anyway, the point is that people didn't like Stuart that much after the Bundy ranch. That's weird because they are all cosplaying, but to varying degrees. You know, some of these people really are fucking straight up retired military with a, a, an intense amount of ability and trading. And then a bunch of these guys are just assholes, uh, who on the weekends have a long gun. Like it's crazy. And some of them are business people. Yeah. They're just, they're just guys who own a fucking tire shop. No, I mean Stuart's kind of a businessman in the sense that this is a kind of a MLM. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the, uh, started the KKK all over again. Yeah. I mean, it's the, the dues that you have to pay

to be part of the Oathkeepers. You've got to the, the merch that he sells. You've got to recruit other people in order to, yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole thing. So, um, look, Stuart didn't want people to go in, uh, to the Capitol. He's kind of a victim. If you really think about it, I've always thought that you are at the center. So am I of January six. I know for damn certain, I didn't want to happen. What happened? I wanted a 10 day investigation with the Senate. Uh, I did not want that to happen. Uh, what is your position on January six and say you and I have been through this before. The same thing. I didn't want anybody to go in the building either. And we all got caught off guard. We all got suckered in. Were the Oathkeepers

there? No doubt about it, but it sure wasn't me. I'm a target. I'm a target of the DHS or the DOJ. They're doing everything they can to try to put me behind bars. I'm a victim. I'm a target victim. Man, you know, that's the right move, but that's so, that's so stupid. Yeah. Take pride in your but I honestly think that it probably works at the, at this point in time. Yeah. Yeah. As long as information isn't really known. It's not a long-term strategy. No, no. It's, it's sort of a bandaid. Right. And I think, you know, he's doing as best he can, knowing that like, uh, I'm on ice. Yeah. Just come out and be like, Hey, I was the one who led the fucking assault on the Capitol. I get that. And I think that you can't just be like, fuck my guys. No,

you cannot do that. So anyway, look, the Oathkeepers were there. Sure. But they were, they were there under official auspices. And we stand for the constitution. I always have. And we were protecting people on January 6th from Antifa, as we had done in the prior stop to seal rallies in November and December and Atlanta, as we had done for the entire Trump administration, even in the streets, protecting people and speakers and events. That's all we ever do. That's all we were doing that day. And I'm not for sale. You can't buy me. You can't blackmail me. You can't intimidate me or shut me up unless they put me behind bars or like with this crap, destroy my character. I have bad news. Yeah. You're behind bars.

They're going to put you behind bars. Yep. And I'm going to guarantee they destroy your character as well. Well, I think, I think that he might be able to get lucky and go to prison for the rest of his life and become a Patriot hero. Sure. Sure. That's maybe the best outcome for him in terms of like moving forward. Right. Right. If he ends up somehow like getting off or something, I don't, I don't imagine the Patriot world trusting him ever again. No, I don't also want to live in a world where 30 years from now fucking Stuart Rhodes is the white nationalist Mandela getting out of a fucking Rikers. Yeah, brutal. I don't see that happen. And you know what? I got to say too, like watching this and watching some of the other interviews that he's

done, there are some where he's got the eye patch and somewhere he doesn't. And there's a striking difference in the tone between the two. He does not seem nearly as scary when he doesn't have his eye patch. Like that is a huge element of his presentation. I mean, an eye patch really does do it though. It does. It does. If you've got the courage to just wear an eye patch all the time, it's a remarkably menacing sort of effectation. Oh yeah. And there's other choices you can make for eye patches than the one he uses. Yeah. Yeah. Very much. It's an intentional choice to menace people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Alex is like, Hey, man. Hey, man. No, he's not doing a Sammy. He's like, Hey, we knew each other like a long time ago, like even before the oath keepers.

Like, yeah, you used to work for Ron Paul. I was interviewing you back then and so it's like, no, no, I've only known you because of the oath keepers. Right. Wanted to get Stuart Rhodes on the broadcast because, you know, I respect Stuart. I've known Stuart for, I don't know, how long ago was it Stuart that you were working with Congressman Ron Paul because that's how long I've been interviewing you. I was back in 1998, 99. That's why I worked for Congressman Paul's office. So, but I don't think you and I met back then. I think it was 2009 when I started oath keepers. I think it was a little bit before that you already doing interviews. Okay. What were you doing in between working for Congressman Paul and oath keepers?

Law school. I just remember having you on before oath keepers. I remember you founding oath keepers, but Alex is confused because Stuart did start coming on infowars just before the oath keepers existed, but it was really close. Right. His first appearance with Alex was on April 8th, 2009, and it was kind of predicated on the idea that he was a former Ron Paul staffer who was part of the Ascended Tea Party and he was talking a whole bunch about revolution. This was clearly an attempt on Stuart's part to do some preemptive advertising because on April 19th, Patriots Day, he gave a speech in Lexington, Massachusetts announcing the formation of the oath keepers and he'd been on with Alex twice between April 8th and the actual announcement. So, like,

you know, he was clearly doing some push. Right. Right. Right. Right. This is why Alex thinks that he was talking to Stuart back when he was working for Ron Paul. Alex does remember the formation of the oath keepers happening and one of his guests doing it, but the relationship that they had barely predated that at all. And it is pretty clear that Stuart said, we contacted you. Right. Right. And that's because it was maybe a press release that like, Hey, I'm getting ready to start a paramilitary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Would you like to get on a ground floor of this? Come on, buddy. Alex may have forgotten that. So look, there's one point that I think you could argue is a little bit tense between the two of them. Okay. And that is when Alex is trying to ask

Stuart questions from Beatty's article and Stuart seems to think that Alex is suggesting these things. Oh, okay. Okay. There is a little bit of a miscommunication between the two. And so, like Alex, like I'm just trying to give you a chance to respond. And Stuart was like, read the article then. You know, there is a little bit of that, but it's not that it's not that aggressive and it resolves itself fairly well. Right. Once the miscommunication is like minutes into a 40 minute interview, like it goes on. So like here's a little piece of it that I thought was particularly interesting. According to the indictment, you were having a five minute, 25 second phone call with person 10 stating at 2 31pm, which overlaps with the precise minutes

where the Oath Keepers got the military stack formation in just minutes later went up to the Capitol given that you were the head of the Oath Keepers. And a person 10 was your ground commander that day. How could you be having an almost I'm going to give you a chance to respond on almost a half minute phone call right while your troops are lining up at a formation known that they were lining up at the formation to do. What did you talk about for five minutes, 25 seconds with your ground operations commander while they were forming the military stack? So this is what I'm going off questions on the internet. They've put out saying, saying, if this guy's indicted talking to you, then how have you not been indicted? And I'm giving you a chance to respond.

Whip has not been indicted. That's person 10. He is our operations commander that day. He has not been indicted. Where are you getting that? I'm just sitting here going off these articles of the questions because I'm actually trying to get you to respond to these. You know, well, okay, I'll respond. It was horrible reception. We were trying to reach each other in a massive crowd. You were there, you know, you can't hear a damn thing. Spotty reception. That's all it was with attempted phone calls. Period. So I don't believe that. But Stuart is actually right about the bigger picture. The person that he was on the phone with at 2 32 p.m. on January 6th hadn't been indicted and he still hasn't been indicted in the indictment for Stuart and his

associates. This person is just referred to as quote a person whom Rhodes appointed as the operations leader for January 6th. This person is Mike whip Simmons. There's a very good chance that Simmons hasn't been indicted yet because he's going to be facing an even more specific charge due to his actions that he personally took or possibly he's a cooperating witness at this point and he's going to be charged with a lesser crime down the road or he's a fed. No, but the most terrifying prospect for someone like Alex is a third option. It's entirely possible that Simmons hasn't been charged because he's connected to other investigations that are ongoing and they don't want to pounce yet because doing so could jeopardize those other investigations. A possibly

relevant detail that is that along with being Stuart's operations leader on the ground, Simmons was also providing security for Roger Stone that weekend. There's a non zero chance that he hasn't been indicted yet because Simmons could be seen as a witness in the case against Roger or possibly that he's seen as connective tissue between the road seditious conspiracy and the circle that includes Roger and Alex and Ali Alexander and stop the steel rallies. This is all conjecture and it may not be the case, but it seems like if you're someone like Alex or Ali, the fact that Simmons hasn't been indicted or named in this indictment should be a cause for concern. That would really worry me. Yeah, if the indictment includes so many communications between Stuart and everybody

and this guy was in on those communications and he's he's he's like the communications with him are in the indictment, but he's not named. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And and he was at this high of a level. He was the operations fucking commander. We're not fucking around with this dude. This dude is not just going to be okay and everybody else is going to look at him and be like what the how did he get away with it and you got to think to like if your role is to provide security for people. You have a lot of people who could do that other than your operations commander. Yeah, so the idea that the operations commander for this big giant event is also providing security for Roger Stone like his photographed with Roger. Yeah, is a little bit dicey. Well, I mean,

you could argue that maybe providing security and also being in contact with Roger Stone while you're in contact with the people that your operations running at the same time. I mean, look, that might be bad. I think that there's a lot of possibilities that come up. Yeah, and the thoughts of what it could imply are none of them are good for Alex and his whole world of cronies and goofballs. Man, you guys, they gotta somebody somebody get Roger Stone on anything. We've already done this and he got away with it. What do we have to do to get Roger Stone? Well, he just have to have a charge stick when he can't get a part of it. He doesn't have a president that it works for him. Yeah, Jesus. So anyway, Stuart says some other stupid

shit. Surely this is provocateur on January six. What do you think the globalists were wanting that day? I think they wanted more violence than what they got. I think they wanted death. I think they wanted to spring guns. If I was actually trying to spark an insurrection out about rifles, if I was actually trying to provoke my guys, do things that are illegal, I told them to bring guns into DC and said, I said the exact opposite. Don't bring anything illegal in DC. I warn them it's in the chats that they've already disclosed. Do not bring anything that can get you snared in DC. It's complete garbage. I think that Stuart's playing a little fast and loose with the truth here. Uh-huh. He may not have wanted his Oathkeeper Brigade to be armed the whole time, but he also

was an active participant in the creation of weapons caches just outside DC, where quick reaction forces could be deployed to bring them in and, you know, bring them to his Oathkeeper Brigade if shit got hot. He texted a co-conspirator about it saying, quote, we will have a QRF, the situation calls for it. Also, it's funny that Stuart says that if he wanted trouble, he would have brought a rifle because if you read the indictment, you'll find that on the way from Texas to DC, Stuart quote, spent approximately $6,000 in Texas on an AR platform rifle and firearms equipment. This was on January 3rd, which is in addition to $5,000 he spent on firearms and equipment and a shotgun on January 1st and $4,500 more that he spent on January 4th in

Mississippi on gun equipment. Right. Right. He spent a lot of money on the way. Yeah, but what he meant was if he wanted trouble, he would have brought his fun gun from home. Oh, sure. His trouble gun. Yeah, yeah, his cause and trouble gun. Tyranny Crusher won. He spent the equivalent of some people's yearly salary on guns and gun parts on the way to DC. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Think about it. Like it's a ridiculous amount of shit he bought. Yeah, that's, that seems like a guy just looking to have a fun time. I don't know why it sounds suspicious for you. Not looking for trouble. Further, it's bullshit that Stuart is saying that he didn't want violence. He totally wanted violence because that would serve his ultimate goal. The goal of that day's actions was to

disrupt the certification of the election, but Stuart is a big picture guy. And for him, the end goal is actions is for the president to declare a complete emergency and call the oath keepers up under Stuart's command to be the new army. This has been something he's been preoccupied with for the better part of my history listening to him on Alex's show. And it's a very clear objective of his actions. If you consult the original indictment of his associates, you can see that he even thought that January 6th could serve as a flashpoint for that to come to pass. Quote, let Antifa, if they go kinetic on us, then we'll go kinetic back on them. I'm willing to sacrifice myself for that. Let the fight start here. That will give

President Trump what he needs, frankly. If things go kinetic, good. If they throw bombs at us and shoot us, great. Because that brings the president, that brings the president his reason and rationale for dropping the insurrection act. We hope he gives us those orders. We want him to declare an insurrection and to call us up as the militia. Probably one of the few people who actually did hope that things got to a worst case scenario on January 6th was Stuart Rhodes. He believed that things went completely off the rails. Trump would have an excuse to bring in the Oath Keepers as his personal militia army, at which point Stuart could do what he feels the current politicians and soldiers don't have the guts to do, namely arrest and kill his political enemies, ideally

without consequences. This interview with Alex is a fairly decent attempt at spinning things to a person who's financially and reputationally required to agree with you, but it's embarrassing shit. Nothing but disrespect for insurgents who won't stand behind their failed attempts at insurrection. Boo. Yeah. Yep. I say boo to you, Rhodes. Yeah, you know, dissidents like to, you know, have courage and such. They like to talk about it. Yeah, that's kind of the big deal. I mean, the thing that interests me, though, is that when you look at the PowerPoint presentation released by Trump, or not released by Trump, but that they yeah, that they went over the one that included you should declare a national emergency and not do the certifying. It was also a constant

topic on Alex's show. Like they like the whole thing. Right. It's Stuart came on Alex's show to advocate for that. He wrote two open letters that were published on the Oath Keepers website to Trump, begging him to do that. Absolutely. And the idea that these people are so deluded as to think that they could give Trump ultimate power and then he would call them up. He's got the United States military. It's a trillion dollar thing. He's not going to call up the dumb dumb Oath Keepers. Well, you need the Oath Keepers with their fucking loyal. And you need you need them because also they have secret members of the military within their ranks. Sure. So a good part of the military will come along with them anyway. Sure. No, you I mean,

you want them as a death squad, but you're not going to call them up to work for you. It's going to be pathetic. You probably want them to do some dirty work and then wipe them out like exactly. And then, oh my God, you guys are so evil. How could you possibly do this evil, horrible act? I mean, whatever the like ripple effects of that fantasy scenario that whatever we could fantasy book in terms of like how that would play out, they were going under the bus. Trying to get like that is the goal that he has wanted for a very long time. Totally. This is something for the better part of the Trump administration. This was something that he was advocating for something that he wanted. He wanted the Oath Keepers to be the actual army. I mean,

and this is clearly if you look at the communications that he had, this was something that he was like, maybe this will be the maybe this will be the time that it's the last day that it's a hard constitutional deadline for the election to be certified. It's the time for Trump to call us up. And violence would give him the pretext. Exactly. Yeah. And for if your end goal is to kill your political enemies, you the only the state gets to do that without consequence. And you gotta be the state. So you gotta be the state. Yeah. So earlier we heard Stuart say that like, you know, him talking to people, there was just attempts at calls, you know, because there's no reception and all that reception nonsense. That's what you have to do in a massive crowd. You got to have

your pieces in to hear what the hell's going on. You're trying to be on a radio. Oh, I tried to stop the crowds going in and I couldn't even hear myself. It was so loud. Yeah, it's ridiculous. It's like, like all this stuff about phone calls and we're trying to call each other. We're trying to get a hold of our guys. And it says in the chats, you know, I'm like, hey, if you're not on security detail, come here. And we were standing where Ali Alexander was supposed to have an event, an area eight on the Northwest Cologne of the Capitol. It was a scheduled event for the stop to steal a rally that was supposed to be from after the ellipse was over. Everyone was walking to the Capitol for that event. And we're off the image of Trump with a million people

there saying this is a fraudulent election peacefully. They were very successful hijacking and taking over. Boo. So it's probably true that the calls that he had that were like 30 seconds long. Those are probably attempts at calls, but there were some that go minutes, even like five minutes, even conference called people. That's not an attempt. Another point worth mentioning is that Ali Alexander got a permit to hold an event at that space by filing for one with a dummy organization name, one nation under God, because he knew that they wouldn't give him a permit for stop the steal. His permit was also for an event with a maximum attendance of 50 people, which was an obvious, obviously a number that he knew he was going to exceed. That alone is probably something

that could get Ali charged with like criminal negligence or something similar, because by having that event there, which he got a permit for under false pretenses, he was drawing far more people to the area right around the Capitol than was safe, according to what was allowed by his permit. And he did that with full foreknowledge. Yeah, no, that's downright fraud. Yeah, these are all various elements of the chaos that occurred that day. And you can begin to see various actors who made intentional choices that led to what happened, whether or not they knew what would happen or even coordinated with each other. Trump told people at his rally to go to the Capitol and that he was going to come with them, which he didn't do. Alex led a march to the Capitol of

people who were only getting more and more amped up along the way with Alex screaming shit about 1776 into his bullhorn. Ali set up an event at the Capitol grounds that he knew was going to get out of control just based on the numbers of people who were going to be there. Stewart and his team coordinated to use military tactics to move through the crowd and breach the Capitol while having weapons caches nearby for when Trump decided to make them the new army of the US. These people, like Ali and Alex, better fucking pray that they don't have any texts or emails lingering around that indicate that there was coordination between these groups in terms of what they were doing. Because I could actually believe that there was just a bunch of fucking weirdos who were all

spiritually on the same page but didn't coordinate with each other. But the prospect that there was some kind of like conscious knowledge of each other's plans. Yeah, that's not good. No, no, no, that's conspiracy. They better fucking pray that there isn't some signal message or something that they thought might be encrypted and not be able to be accessed. Because yeah, you know, reading through that, you've got to figure these guys had to have just assumed that they were going to get away with it. They were going to win. The chats were invite only. They were, I mean, but that was so dumb. Yeah. That was so dumb. How could you do that? Yeah, I don't know if I'm more inclined to believe that they thought that it would be successful or that they thought

that their comms were more secure than they thought. Yeah, I mean, maybe it's just this is what happens whenever your entire organization is not like trained so much as grew up watching movies. And that's how it works in movies. That's not true, man. A lot of these people are actually ex-military. A lot of them have had training in a lot of areas that may be relevant to this stuff. 100%. I understand that part. But really, you think that just a signal alone, there were articles written in 2018 about how they can crack signal. I understand that. But I also think that there is a conventional wisdom that people have that it is far more secure and uncrackable. Sure. If you didn't read that article, maybe you would think that the branding is such that it's like,

wow, no one can get to this. It's unbreakable. Yeah. Yeah. Proton mail can't be accessed or whatever. You know, like, sure, it's more secure than other deliveries, but, you know, it's not going to help you plan an insurrection. No. So this is funny. I mean, I think, Stuart, you should help try to lead an investigation of who did this. Oh, yeah. Because I know I'm being blamed with it and you're blaming you. So I mean, how do you think I should lead some time? That's kind of what I'm doing now is we've had a bunch of shows about it. We've had big debates about it. It's starting to become a big issue. And then now they've kind of put you in the middle of it. I would say that if Stuart was in charge of investigating

this, it would be a short investigation. Fox placed in charge of who killed chicken. Just be, uh, Antifa. Oh, totally Antifa. They were everywhere. And you know what? They were working under the orders of Pelosi and I can prove totally. Absolutely. Great. Good investigation. It goes all the way to the top. Yeah. So look, Stuart wants the, uh, the government to dump all the documents they have because he knows that a whistleblower could unveil the Antifa provocaturing. Right. I call on DHS or NSA. You guys can still do a data dump. You can do it right now. Go expose all the dirt and all the corrupt politicians, all the FBI informants, all the provocateurs. You know who they are. Go do the data dump. You can do it.

WikiLeaks style. You can do it anonymously. Go do it. And anybody out there who's been blackmailed or coerced or bought out, just confess, we'll forgive you. Expose it. Be a whistleblower. It doesn't make a difference what they've done to you or what they have on you. Do the right thing for your country. It's fascinating to hear this knowing what we know that Stuart knows he did. Yeah. You know, this is such a fraudulent like performance that he's putting on and it's operating under the assumption that he like that that information does exist. Yeah. Yeah. And that there are whistleblowers who are being blackmailed into not talking about the Antifa provocateurs like those people exist and he's reaching out to them as opposed to like he's

fully aware of his actions. No, this is, this is local news. This is the husband who has killed his wife on TV saying, we just want to find her. We just want to find her. She's lost. We want you to come home knowing full well that her head and hands are in his fucking trunk. It does have that vibe. Yeah. So Stuart has a request for people like Alex and everybody in the right wing media and I'd stop using words that make me feel bad. Oh, that's a good idea. But we have to stop using their rhetoric. We should stop talking about military formations and and storming the Capitol and insurrection. That's kind of nonsense. That's their language. What it was, like you said, was a protest and small elements that were like a riot. That's it.

There were some people that assaulted police. Hey, they got their problems because they actually assaulted police officers, but everybody else that walked through doors are already open. So we need to dial back the rhetoric on our side and stop pointing fingers and look at the big picture. And a big picture is they're using like the Reich Tog fire to be there. Be there a new 9 11 to turn that war inward on us. We need to reject that entire period on. If I were Stuart, I would also be imploring people to stop using words like military formations because when they do, they're just talking about Stuart's friends. Yeah. If you read the indictments that Stuart's facing, the idea seems to come up a bit. For instance, quote on December 12 2020, the North

Carolina chapter of the Oath Keepers held a training session that according to the leader of that chapter would be focused on vehicle operations, roadblocks, vehicle recovery, convoy operations, setting up hasty ambushes and reacting to ambushes. But the first thing we're going to do is fall into formation when we assemble. When things got going, the co-conspirators formed stacks and moved in formation to approach the breach of the capital quote at 235 p.m. bags, Watson, Hackett, Mooreshell and others joined together to form stack one and maneuvered in an organized fashion up the steps to the east side, retunded doors, each member keeping at least one hand on the shoulder of the other in front of them. This was the same type of formation that was used by the other

co-conspirators who made up stack two. I'm resisting the urge to call them stacks. I know, I understand. It's so difficult. I get you. I'm with you. It's painfully obvious that Stuart wouldn't want people talking about military formations that people were using on January six because he's the head of a paramilitary organization who were using military formations that day. Yeah. It's obvious that he doesn't want people to use the word insurrection because he wrote two open letters to Trump that he published online where he was desperately begging Trump to use the insurrection act so his friends could pretend to be the army and wrote texts and signal messages while the storming was going on, celebrating it essentially as an insurrection.

No, no, no. You don't understand. Okay. So what happened was Antifa were surveilling the oathkeepers and learning their training methods. All right. So then whenever they went to instigate, they used the knowledge that they had gleaned from watching the oathkeepers who are, by the way, so well trained. They would never have been caught. Obviously. And look, like Antifa, they infiltrated all of the comms and all the signal chats and stuff. And actually Antifa made Stuart say the things that he was saying. It really does feel like Stuart's like, Hey man, I'm the only person here who isn't Antifa. I'm going to be honest. And all those things that I said were Antifa. It was all Antifa. They're pretending to be made.

They're so evil. So Stuart is a dangerous extremist, but ultimately he's also a boring one, at least partially because his revolutionary spirit is kind of intertwined with his desire to make money off his revolutionary brand. It's great to be into the insurrection until it doesn't work because then you have to protect the business. If the insurrection had worked and Trump had invoked the Insurrection Act and made Stuart the head of a newly deputized militia, you would be hearing a very different tone from him about the things that he did in the lead up to the six. Oh, he might be bragging, I would say. He might be writing a memoir. He might be on TV all the time with Tucker Carlson saying, Hey, isn't it great that I made this a fascist country?

And none of this would have been possible without the intricate planning of me and my friends. You got it. Yep. Such bullshit. He'd be like the fucking Swamp Fox. That would be his bullshit. Yeah. So there's one excuse that Stuart uses about the fact that Oath Keepers did go into the Capitol. He can't really deny that. That is definitely true. Tough. So in order to explain that away, here's what Stuart uses and it's horseshit parallel universe. Two weeks got everything in my phone, interviewed me. I gave an interview with them against legal counsel's advice, because I wanted to clarify what our guys were doing. I stood up for my men. They told me after the fact they went in to render medical aid after they heard that Ashley Abbott had been shot.

Tell us about the FBI interview. Were they proud of themselves? What was it like? Well, they were like, oh, the first guy walked up and said, oh, we're just here to get your phone. We're not trying to arrest you. And is everything like you said it was in your interviews in the media that all you guys are doing is security? I'm like, yeah, that's all there is to it. There's no planning to do anything. And they're cordial, but you know, the entire time they're recording me. So they're asking me about what our guys did. And I said, hey, they went in only because they heard someone had been shot. So they told me and I think that's, I think that's valid. I think that's why they went in. I think my men had the best of intentions.

This is complete bullshit. Ashley Abbott was shot at 2 44 p.m. And you kind of have to assume that there wouldn't be immediate relaying of this information to people outside the Capitol. There's a decent chance that if you were in the crowd, it would take longer for you to learn about that than someone just watching TV. Being as generous as I'm willing to be, let's say that it took six minutes for word to get out from the site of the shooting to the wider population outside. Why not? Sure, it's arbitrary, but it also doesn't matter. By that point, Stuart's Koch conspirators had breached the Capitol and we're in contact with him. And they're very obviously he knew what was going on. For example, quote, at 235,

Megs, Watkins, Hackett, Morchell and others joined together to form Stack One. Harrelson joined Stack One when it reached the top of the steps. At the top of the steps, Stack One pushed forward as part of a mob that aggressively advanced toward the retarded doors, assaulting the law enforcement officers guarding the doors, through objects and sprayed chemicals toward the officers and the doors and pulled violently at the doors. At 239 p.m., a member of Stack One joined the crowd, enforceably pushing against one of the retarded doors and the law enforcement officers guarding that door. The mob then breached the doors and the Stack One member entered the building. Shortly after the mob breached the retarded doors, Megs, Harrelson,

Watkins, Hackett, Morchell and others forced their way through the doors into the Capitol. This is all before 244 when Ashley Babbitt was shot. My advice, and this has been the case ever since I've watched reality TV shows about like First 48 and all that stuff, you have the right to remain silent. You could just not go to the FBI and lie directly to their faces. I'm not even certain that Stewart's being honest about talking to the FBI. Well, yeah, that's fair. I have to take that as coming from him as opposed to something I know to be true. That's a good point. That's a good point. Look, the point is he's saying this on Alex's show and it can't possibly be true. No, there's no chance that their actions

could be motivated by a concern about a person being shot and Stewart knows what he's doing on this show. He's lying to provide cover for himself and his militia. Yeah, three minutes before Stack One made their advance on the Capitol. Megs, who was a part of Stack One, was on a conference call with Stewart. And at 244, the exact time Babbit was shot, Watkins announced on their Zelo walkie talkie channel, quote, we are in the mezzanine. We're in the main dome right now. We're rocking it. They're throwing grenades. They're fucking shooting people with paintballs. But we're in here. One minute later, Stack One members began trying to force their way past law enforcement who were blocking the path from the rotunda to the Senate chamber with Watkins yelling

push, push, they can't hold us. After they got tear gassed, they decided to retreat and some of them went to look for Nancy Pelosi at the House of Representatives. Yeah, because they were worried that she was injured by the tear gas. They were just there to provide medical assistance, Dan. Such nonsense. That's what they're trying to do. They're like the Red Cross. Stack Two indicated a plan to enter the Capitol even earlier when between two and two 30, a member of the group heard the people had breached the Capitol and replied, quote, now we're talking. That's what I came here for. Suspiciously absent from the conversation is being motivated by concern about Ashley Vavigating shot, which also hadn't happened yet. They didn't actually make it into the Capitol

until after the shooting, but their actions and words prior to entrance make it very clear what they were doing and why they were doing it. Another important point is that even if his militia goons were only going in because they were concerned about someone getting shot, how does that make this any better? What the fuck did they think they were going to do to de-escalate the situation or help in any way? They would have kept their oath. Okay. When Stuart says they only went in because someone got shot, he wants it to sound like they wanted to help. But if that were actually why they went in, it would be because then they would be able to shoot more. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they shot one of us. Guess what? We get to shoot them now. We get to shoot them now. It's

our dream. Yes. It would be a justification for them to shoot other people. It's the thing they've wanted since they were born. Yeah. Also, there's pretty clear evidence that Stuart knew at the time and when he's on info wars that his people weren't interested in providing medical aid. Before 2pm, almost an hour before Babbit was shot, someone asked in a signal group, Stuart was in, quote, are they actually patriots, not those who were going in in disguise as patriots to cause trouble? To which Stuart replied, quote, actual patriots, pissed off patriots, like the sons of Liberty were pissed off patriots. Great. Just after that, Watkins, a member of stack one, who would later breach the Capitol and try to storm the Senate chambers,

said on their walkie talkie channel, quote, it is spread like wildfire that Pence has betrayed us and everyone's marching on the Capitol. We have about 30 to 40 of us. We're sticking together and sticking to the plan. It really makes you think, like, what was the plan exactly? Was this plan to hang out, provide security for people like Roger Stone and then, you know, go into the Capitol because you have to provide emergency medical assistance that no one asked you to provide? You don't know. You don't know. It's an interaction. That's nonsense. And it strains credulity to believe that Stuart would ever think that his people behaved the way he's trying to present it to Alex. This is just dog shit cover stories. This is bad.

It's a good lie for the audience, though. Like people who watch Alex's shit will definitely believe this. It's not going to play in court, though. No. Like the clear timing of actions and statements. It's a clear lie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This would not be a difficult episode of any. This is not CSI Miami where they're like, I don't know if we're going to find this guy. Nope. This is a five minute episode. It's him. He did it. Let's go. And Stuart's even lying about the like, I asked my guys, I asked Megs and he told me that they only went in because of Babbit. He knows that's not true. No, he's created a complete fiction. He's written his movie where he, this is how if we hadn't planned to kill everybody, it would have gone. Here is a

flimsy rationale that sounds kind of defensible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So shitty. So we were hunting leprechauns and we thought that DC was a great place to find them because it's a swamp. That's where leprechauns live. And also look, because the deep state hates us, they've taken away our payment processor. So we need a pot of gold. We have to find the end of the rainbow. No. So look, this is just funny. Stuart should follow his own advice on this one. I told my guys all the time, you should presume that every chat has got an informant in it. You should presume that every meeting has an informant because they're going to be there. The FBI has thousands of paid informants across the country. But what you have to

do is say, I'm not going to let that stop me from being involved in my community and organize. But then you got to do it smart. Yeah, man. Wow. Real smart. How, I mean, I do like the idea that maybe that's more of an in retrospect kind of thought he's having. I have learned because of this. Now that I think about it, I have a lot of incriminating shit in my text and I really wish I had said all that face to face. I need to remind myself to assume that there are snitches in every chat. It would be a smart idea to not have people know my face. I think I should do that one. So the interview ends and it ends with a little bit of weirdness, but really not that bad. Yeah. And I would say

we're fourth of July. Best thing you can go do is read the definition of independence and think about the long train of abuse as they suffered and compare them where we are now. We're very much in the same place. In closing without saying names, would you like to debate those guys? No, I got nothing on. Okay. Because we like debates. We want to have debates. All right, there goes Stuart Rhodes. All right. Thanks. Thank you. That's really weird. That's the end of the interview. It kind of sounded like parts of the that was clumsily edited out. It did. So I thought maybe there were parts that were at it. I was wrong about this, but let me down a road of like trying to figure out like,

can I find this like posted before right? It was posted like this week. Sure. So like, is there any like indication anywhere that we can find? So I was curious. I went back and I checked and according to Alex, you know, like he said, this was recorded on July 2nd, 2021. And it was supposed to air on July 4th. It doesn't appear on the July 4th show. Like I said, he interviews judge Joe Brown. It's less than compelling radio. I went back and I listened to July seconds show. And sure enough, Alex is discussing his plan to interview Stuart that day to air on Sunday, which he wanted to take off because it was the 4th of July. I'm going to interview Stuart because I'm taping the Sunday show and watch the

Columbia war or something. So I'll be in live. But for the July Sunday, I'm going to take off this for the July. I'm taping with Stuart today. And you'll have two segments, three, four, whatever he wants. Hell, he wants the whole show. He can have it. You know, just to talk about the Capitol January 6th, the whole thing is going to be about the revolver story, the second part. Now, what I can understand is that Stuart absolutely did not flip out on Alex in the course of that interview, like Alex presented recently. Yes. And in fact, listening to it, I can't imagine what would make Alex not air it. The only parts that are even a bit contentious are that when they have that misunderstanding or Stuart doesn't realize that Alex is asking

questions based on the revolver article and thinks that Alex might believe that Stuart's a Fed and then the stuff about Pete Santilli. I think that part at the end there, there's a real weirdness because Alex is offering to have Stuart debate Santilli so they can work out their issues. And I think maybe Stuart got mad there, but it doesn't seem like a reason to shelve the interview. Yeah, something wasn't right. So I went to see if I could poke around and see what's up. The first thing I did was check on info wars.com to see if they might have had a post from July about Alex's interview with Stuart. But when you search their website for Stuart Rhodes now, you'll find quickly that they have scrubbed the site of all but a few mentions of him.

There are three stray posts that come up in a search for Stuart Rhodes that have nothing to do with him. And one with a title like click here for the live 40 hour emergency save America transmission where maybe he was a guest on that and so it comes up. The only three articles that come up that have anything directly to do with Stuart are all from the past two weeks. Two are about the charges that Stuart just caught and one is from two weeks ago and it's just a Tom Pappert blog entry about how Ray Epps, John Sullivan and Stuart Rhodes are set to testify in the Oathkeeper's case. I'm not sure that held up well. Yeah. Stuart has been coming on Alex's show for 13 years and there have been countless headlines of him calling for revolution, but

now mysteriously they don't come up on the site when you search for him. That's so weird. Very weird. It's such a good coincidence for them. A couple more articles come up if you do a Google search of the info wars site for pages that mentioned Stuart, but nothing from before last March, which is weird. That seems insane. So I did some more poking around and I found that there's a section of info wars website. That's an archive of their headlines. Some of them are pretty interesting like quote, Stuart Rhodes Senate bill declares war on Americans. I dare you to try and guess what year that was from or what bill it's talking about. I'm going to go with 2013 and how about the, I don't know, Patriot Act. It's 2011 and I don't know because the body of the article is

missing. Okay. Well, that's fair. How about this one? Let's play the game. I feel like I was fairly close with 2013. Yeah. You were in the ballpark. I was in the ballpark. So let's let's try this again. See if you can guess when this headline was posted. Okay. Quote, learn of America's coming civil war. Oathkeeper's Stuart Rhodes reveals what could be in America's future could be from any year. What year? What year? I'm going to go 2015 2019. Oh, there are a bunch of headlines on there that kind of give you the sense that Stuart has been the kind of guy who's trying to get this whole revolution thing going for about a decade at least. And just hadn't has his chance and maybe it's not a great idea for in force to advertise how complicit they are in amplifying his shit and

actually facilitating it. Yeah. Stuart wouldn't be anywhere close to where he is now without Alex. I mean, I would say that I wouldn't want to establish a pattern of behavior, especially if it does, especially if I were the person who was constantly arguing that it was indeed Antifa, who was always advocating for violence in politics for that pattern of behavior to be so consistent over 13 years. Anyone talking about Antifa. Yeah. Yeah. That could be trouble. Possibly worse. However, was the results of my next poke. I was trying to see if I could find, if there was a raw version of this, this video, I searched band.video for Stuart Rhodes and there's a couple of posts on there that Alex should probably take down. One is a video where Alex

and Owen Troyer interview Stuart with the title quote, Patriots plot their recapture of America in DC this weekend. Bad headline. Yeah. Now granted, this video is from November 2020 and the rally that they were going to was the climactic endpoint of Owen's dumb stop the steel caravan. Right. The optics are really bad. It definitely sends a strong message that Alex and Owen and Stuart were involved in a collaborative plan to help Patriots recapture America within a few months of January 6th. And we're doing so under the same name, stop the steel as the organization that Ali Alexander ran. There was instrumental in planning the rally at the Capitol. Have they switched most of their headlines to just like exhibit a exhibit B.

The video was from November 10th. And if you consult Stuart's indictment, you can see at this same time, he was also actively planning with the oathkeepers to disrupt the election results quote on November 9th, 2020, Rhodes held a private go to meeting an online meeting site that allows you to host conference calls and video conferences via the internet limited to oathkeeper members titled oathkeepers national called members only, which was attended by Megs, Harrelson, Watkins, Hackett, all of them part of stack one share and others, including the person who roams Rhodes appointed as the operations leader for January 6th. That's Simmons, right? Whip. During the meeting, Rhodes outlined a plan to stop the lawful transfer of presidential power, including

preparations for the use of force and urge those listening to participate. If I had to guess, the November rally in DC was too soon after the election to try and coordinate anything. There wasn't a fever pitch yet at that point, since a lot of people were still hoping that some kind of evidence of voter fraud would come out and Trump would still win. It wouldn't be optically good for Stuart to use that rally as the jump point. And I guess if I had to guess, he was probably using it for recon. There's another exchange that the indictment mentions from November 9th. Quote, on November 9th, 2020, Caldwell reached out to Rhodes to provide the results of a likely reconnaissance trip he had taken into Washington DC and to coordinate

planning with Rhodes for an upcoming op in Washington DC. I wouldn't be surprised if Stuart knew well enough that this wasn't the time, but that rally could still be useful for PR purposes and to get acquainted with the Capitol, right? Have a peaceful like March as a precedent kind of for it. Yeah, there's a lot of uses for that. Yeah. Looking at more of the videos on Band-Aid video, there are multiple videos of Stuart coming on to declare the six. They plot to frame the Patriots. You can find the video from July 1st, 2021, where Harrison Smith defends Stuart from accusations he's a Fed. And then there's a big gap between then and Stuart's arrest. I honestly find it difficult to believe that Stuart wasn't on any of their shows between those dates, but I

guess it's possible. I can definitely see Alex getting worried about the Fed accusations rubbing off on him and throwing his friend of 13 years off to the side. It's possible, but that's wild. Not only are there no results from Alex's own show, but there are no results from Harrison's show, who went out of his way to debunk revolver articles to prove Stuart's innocence. This doesn't make sense at all to me. It's weird. I went back and I watched the video and the only explanation I can come up with is this. At the end, Alex makes this joke about if Stuart wants to come on and debate Pete Santilli. Stuart does look mad and he says no and that he'll see him in court. He still appears to be talking and he doesn't look very happy while Alex quickly ends

the show. I could imagine that Stuart yelled at Alex after the show because he was joking about this stuff that takes very seriously. Then maybe he got into talking about how he's going to kick Santilli's ass, which Alex, you know, he referenced that Stuart was yelling and saying he was going to kick someone's ass. So maybe that happened after they stopped recording or after the interview could have been. I have no idea. And I was at a dead end or at least I thought that I was until I saw one more thing on band.video. Are you are you Colomboing me right now? There was an interview that Stuart Rhodes did on July 12th, 2021, 10 days after Alex's failed interview. This was with a just another channel, which if I remember correctly was a show on rumble that followed Owen on the

caravan. And now I guess they have their own show on Alex's site. Great. Wow. The video is titled quote, exclusive FBI allegations. Does Stuart Rhodes clear the air or muddy the waters? America, you decide. I got to thinking. Hey, I'm America. I should decide. You are America. I listened to the whole interview and it's dog shit. It's just Stuart saying the same kind of stuff that he said as the cover story in the Alex interview, sure, sure, sure. Except he's way more clear that he thinks the whole thing about him being a fed is a personal attack from Pete Santilli. Right. He makes that really clear. He just gets madder and madder about Pete Santilli. Yes. And maybe one might say a kind of moving one's anger from yourself to another. He seems to really be insistent

that Santilli has a crush on him. Yeah. It's really weird. Great. However, in all that like ignorable nonsense, there's one moment of hilarity in this interview that I need to bring up to end the episode. And this is my bright spot. This is your bright spot. The interview is being conducted by the host of just another channel who I think is a dweeb named Brandon. He's joined by a co-host named Jeremy, who he, this guy himself is an oathkeeper. And then they talked to Stuart and a woman named Angel, whose husband is one of the oathkeepers who got arrested in the first indictment, Kenneth Harrelson, who's also now charged with seditious conspiracy along with Rhodes. You know, you get in there the whole time. This Jeremy guy is just going on and on about how the

oathkeepers are totally cool, not nefarious organization, which is, you know, what I would expect him to say. He's openly bragging about being there on the sixth and having brought weapons to the stash spot and being a bit confrontational about it. If you ask me, it all comes to a head in this clip. Here is the thing that is most disingenuous to me is that all the footage that has been released of that hotel room, they have that same footage of me. The list of lodging, I believe that my lodging, which was a RV park 10 miles outside of DC in College Park, is literally redacted. And it's because I know they tried to recruit me. And so that's why I continually say to people, they intentionally are ignoring my participation

in January 6th, because my testimony completely blows their entire bullshit narrative out of the water because I sat in on these meetings. I was there the night before I was there on January 5th. I had guns in that hotel room. I was on the video camera picking up my guns the next day. So this guy, this guy is Jeremy Brown. I don't know if that name rings a bell to you. No, he's my favorite insurrectionist. I think if I had to choose one. Oh yeah. So this video is recorded on July 12th. And then on September 30th, Jeremy was arrested for knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful authority and knowingly and with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of government business or official functions,

engage in disorderly or disruptive content in any restricted building or grounds. It's not just the cockiness and the icarus style flying too close to the sun that makes Jeremy my favorite though. He's the stupidest asshole in the world. When Jeremy was arrested, naturally his house was searched and cops found about what you'd expect. Tons of ammo and dicey guns like sawed off shotguns. Oh, and also two hand grenades. Yeah, I was going to say there's definitely an explosive or two. The reality is that he probably wouldn't end up getting that much time for his actions on the 6th unless more evidence turns up. But having grenades is not great. In 2020, a dude got sentenced to 31 months in jail for having four hand grenades without the

correct paperwork. So Jeremy might be in some shit, but it gets better. Before he got arrested, Jeremy put his house for sale on Zillow and was apparently going to be living in an RV. However, he accidentally included a picture of a whiteboard in the Zillow listing, which included a bit of incriminating information. No, no, no, no. God damn it. No. Yep. So this had incriminating information about it, about what weapons he had, quote, on hand, including flash bangs, which definitely wouldn't be legal for him to have on hand. This also introduced a new problem for Jeremy. This picture claimed to show that he had weapons, including flash bangs, which were not found by the cops during a search, which would tend to imply or provide probable cause to suspect

that he moved them. And it turns out transporting explosives is a crime. The federal agent actually had to type this out, quote, based on my training expertise, general familiarity with the small confines of an RV, the fact that the trailer was purchased approximately a month ago and sits next to the RV and the house within the property line, and that it's unlikely that an individual would market a home available for public inspection with guns and explosives inside the home. It's probable that many of Brown's possessions, including electronics, guns, ammunition and explosives, which constitute potential evidence in this investigation, have been moved to the RV or trailer. That's a really long way of explaining something very clear that we know they they got

guns, but they weren't there. So maybe they're next door. Yeah. Also, because it's fun, the FBI search warrant also says that the agent, quote, also reviewed publicly available video podcasts of Brown and Person One. In an interview posted on July 12, 2021, Brown stated that he was present with the other oath keepers on January 6. Prior to the riots, he deposited guns with other oath keepers in Virginia and retrieved them after the riots. Yeah, that's not good. Whoops. I would not have admitted to a potentially, let's say 100 years ago, executable crime. Well, I mean, it's definitely, you know, this video that he did with Stuart Rhodes is probable cause in the FBI's search warrant. Yeah. My God. So Jeremy's insisting on taking his case to trial so he can blow this

whole thing wide open. So I look forward to that gusto fizzling out disappointingly. They're like he claims that the FBI tried to make him an informant or whatever. And I from what I can understand from the allegations, there was a visit that he got from the FBI at some point about shit he was posting online, which based on the other things I can tell about him, maybe he made a threat of some sort that was relevant enough. Right. As, as somebody who's a member of the oath keepers and like a former like Green Beret, apparently. Yeah, great. Maybe if that person's making threats, they might get a visit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If they were serious enough that people would take them as a credible threat. I don't know exactly what the case is about that.

And I could find blogs saying that he released video of a recording of the FBI trying to make him an informant. Sure. Sure. Sure. Trying to get him to snitch on the oath keepers. Hey, you want to work for the FBI? I can't find that video. Well, and apparently it was supposed to have been played in an interview with just another channel. So on the band on video page, because that's what the blogs were saying. It was posted on band.video by the just another channel. It's not on there. So if it was on there, it's been since removed. Right. And I don't know where this is. I don't really believe necessarily what's going on here, but I do believe that he posted on Zillow that he had explosives. I mean, this is just, it's just a bad movie. It's like, it's like a

heist movie where the weakest link is like, oh, I suddenly spend in $10 million immediately after they did the heist. You're the one who's getting us caught, man. Oh, man. This is why if I'm doing conspiracies, all right, I'm one, not doing it with any of these people. And two, I think I'm only going to go with like, I guess, cartoon characters who are used to stealing like the hamburger. Sure. Number one in my conspiracy. Who are you drafting? Oh, we're gonna do a conspiracy draft draft. I'm going to go with a verbal kint verbal kint. That's a good. That's a good one for your conspiracy. He doesn't talk. He has got a spotless record. He he doesn't crack under pressure. Absolutely. His buddy, the the Kobayashi, he doesn't even exist. So that's my first round

so you know that's the trick to conspiracies. Make them up. Nobody even alive. So you got the hamburger. I got the hamburger and you've got the the goat. Okay. So so that puts me. I'm going to go with one of the spies that was executed in the forties for never mind. I'm going to go with a lot to the watcher. No, you can't have. Okay. Have a lot to fictional. So is the hamburger. Your rules, your rules are changing. Yeah, but it's the wrong kind of fictional. Okay, overpowered. Yeah, no mythology. Okay, nobody with super power. Yeah, that's kind of that's kind of what I was thinking. I was trying to think of somebody who would be really good at not getting involved in things. I don't want them involved in sure and maybe having

a lot of information at their disposal. Right. I was also trying to think of somebody who's maybe a mute. Oh, that's not a bad idea. Like someone who either is not able to speak or chooses not to speak. That I think would be like maybe some kind of or do you want to do? Do you want to do like a grease man like an oceans 11? You've got you've got the acrobat, the Chinese acrobat guy who only speaks in Chinese and everybody understands him and it's kind of a joke. No, no, no. You don't want to you don't want to inexplicably be able to understand Chinese. I prefer no, I prefer I prefer somebody who will not snitch because they don't speak. Okay, whether willingly or Gwen Stefani.

I know the joke you're making. I appreciate that as a response. But the reason that I had a pause there is because she's not saying that she doesn't speak to the boyfriend in the song. I understand. It is not as consistent as I would have liked. I started to track the logic of the joke of like who would I draft in that case? I understand. Wasn't it the bassist? I don't know. I know there's apparently somebody in the back. Who cares? Anyway, Jordan, we've come to the end of this and we've met my bright spot. The terrorist who posts his plans on Zillow accidentally. Just an amazing, amazing

individual. But the mystery still remains of why Alex wouldn't post this. Yeah. Other than like offending Pete Santilli, I can't see what exactly Alex saw that was threatening in that interview. It seems to me that it's more likely that Stewart said something afterwards. Yeah. That Stewart said something afterwards or something and was like, I don't want that. But do you think Alex would respect that? That's a good question. But also, I mean, he does know his buddy was ready to kill the president or the vice president. You also got to consider the possibility that Stewart said don't post that. That led to a fight and that's why Stewart hadn't been on. That's true. That's also possible. Because then Alex

maybe had to come up with something else to do and it ruined his July four plans. He had to talk to Joe Brown. You got to think about this in terms of like real pettiness. Childish behavior. Yeah, I don't know. I really find this to be kind of an open question at this point, like why this wouldn't have aired. I think that Stewart saying don't air it possible. But then again, why would he 10 days later do an interview where he says almost the same thing with a smaller channel on Bandod video? It seems like he was insistent to get this message out. Yeah. That's interesting. Then the other possibility, like I said, is like Alex does have Pete Santilli on or at least has a bit in the past. Sure. Possible that he doesn't want

to start beef with somebody who's a little bit closer to being accepted by the mainstream of the right wing. Right. Whereas Stewart is fringy fringe. He doesn't want to get into another pechenic David Knight David Knight situation. I mean, neither of them are employees. But yeah, maybe that would be too much of a problem trying to take sides and that in that fight. Yeah, I don't know. But anyway, I think more importantly, if you listen to this, you find just pathetic attempts at damage control. Yeah. And coming up with an excuse. Real sad. But it's real sad. But but but compelling to Alex's audience, no doubt, of course, especially without any other information to contradict the things that he's saying that

are clear lies. I mean, the thing that gets me is that they have watched Stewart Rhodes go on info wars for years, calling for violent action. And then they're going to just accept that. Oh, by the way, Stewart Rhodes was all about medical aid. Well, only on the news just selfless. It's just selfless, dude. Yeah. Well, I don't know. We'll see what happens. But you know, we'll check in again. But until then, we have a website. We do. It's knowledge fight.com. Yep. We're also on Twitter. We are on Twitter. It's add knowledge underscore fighting. I go to bed Jordan. We'll be back. But until then, I'm Neo and Leo and BZX Clark. I'm Daryl Rundis. And now here comes the sex robots, Andy and Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding.

Hello, Alex. I'm a first time color. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.