Mark Bell's Power Project - 10 Minute Walk Talk - Daniel Orrego & Chris Bell

Episode Date: March 15, 2018

Today's 10 Minute Walk Talk features big bro Chris Bell and Epigenix Co-Founder Daniel Orrego. Daniel is leading the way in treating cancer patients, man and dogs, with the Ketogenic Diet. ➢Subscribe Rate & Review on iTunes at: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mark-bells-power-project/id1341346059?mt=2 ➢Listen on Stitcher Here: https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/mark-bells-power-project?refid=stpr ➢Listen on Google Play here: https://play.google.com/music/m/Izf6a3gudzyn66kf364qx34cctq?t=Mark_Bells_Power_Project ➢Listen on SoundCloud Here: https://soundcloud.com/markbellspowerproject ➢SHOP NOW: https://markbellslingshot.com/ FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell ➢ Snapchat: marksmellybell

All right, what's up guys? Welcome to the 10 Minute Walk Talk. This is Chris Bell. I'm here in Los Angeles with my good buddy, Daniel Orego. Daniel is a co-founder of the Epigenics Foundation, an amazing foundation that has been helping to treat cancer and other diseases with the ketogenic diet.

Now, Daniel has been involved with this since the inception of it. And why don't you tell us a little bit about what kind of diseases that a ketogenic diet can treat and why and what you guys are doing with it? Sure. So, you know, at Epigenics Foundation, what we're really interested in is understanding the intersection of metabolism and disease. And obviously you mentioned cancer and that fits within that profile. But beyond that, we're really looking at what we like to call the five deadly scourges, right? So that includes cancer, obesity, diabetes, cognitive decline, and cardiac disease. And of those, it's really diabetes that's the low-hanging fruit to the extent that even with type 2 diabetes, just a low-carb nutritional intervention, let alone a ketogenic nutritional intervention, can dramatically change health outcomes for people who are struggling with metabolic syndrome or full-blown type 2 diabetes.

syndrome or full-blown type 2 diabetes. So you've actually been using this in things like treating brain cancer patients, right? And can you tell us a little bit about the success in those cases? Absolutely. You know, the guys who really put this on the map for us were Dr. Peter Attia, former head of NUSI, the Nutrition Science Initiative, and Dr. Dominic D'Agostino, who's a cancer researcher at University of Southern Florida. And what they really gave us an appreciation for was fat metabolism and how fat metabolism can alter disease progression. And so when they really explained the fundamentals of this to us and showed us the research, really the seminal research that was done by Dr. Thomas Seyfried

that showed that putting brain cancer patients, specifically glioblastoma patients who were past standard of care, in other words, the classic therapies of temidor or temozolomide and dexamethasone had failed, putting those patients in nutritional ketosis demonstrated that not only could they survive longer, but that their quality of life could dramatically increase. And in addition to that, one could see a tremendous tumor response in these case studies. And so we looked at that and we said, okay, you know, there's some compelling evidence here in the case studies. What can we do to move this forward? So really our first project was one that you're familiar with, Chris, at Keto Pet Sanctuary, where we ended up rescuing dogs

that had cancer. And these were, you know, various tumor models, not just gliomas or glioblastomas, but mast cell tumors, squamous cell carcinomas, hemangiosarcoma, mammary adenocarcinoma. And we applied effectively the same protocols that Dr. Seyfried and Dr. D'Agostino had used in people with brain cancers as well as in rat models. And what we saw in pretty short order is that we were able to replicate those results to the extent that we're able to induce pretty favorable tumor response, increased survivorship, as well as a quality of life. And so that was really the first point of departure for us. And then after that, we moved on to helping type 2 diabetics, people with metabolic syndrome, and finally recapitulated a portion of the brain cancer study with Dr. Jethro Hu at Cedars-Sinai. Basically, you're saying that a ketogenic diet or just losing weight in general,

will losing weight in general do the same things as a ketogenic diet, or is there something that the ketogenic diet is doing that's special beyond just losing weight? Well, you know, you're hitting on a key point, right? It's a well-understood phenomenon in the sciences that there's a high correlation between obesity and disease. And that's any disease. So that's your cancer, that's cardiac disease, your dementia, Alzheimer's, things like that. You know, the flip side of that is there's a pretty well understood or well recognized perspective on the value of controlling calories. And there's a lot of ways to do that.

A ketogenic diet is one or a low carb diet is one and you know what we've seen with the longitudinal studies is that you know the the people who are able to control calories not only live longer but appear and behave more youthful when they are older Wow and that's true not just for humans but for any primate for a flatworm a bird a dog. So that's almost a universal constant across organisms, across species. Let's get a little practical knowledge here because let's go with things that people can apply right now. So we just did five minutes on a bunch of shit that's probably over people's head. Now, how can we apply this to people? So let me ask you a

question. A lot of people on a ketogenic diet, they'll lose a bunch of weight and then they just get stuck. What do you recommend when somebody just gets stuck and why do they get stuck? Well, you know, that's true of almost any nutritional intervention, whether it's low carb, ketogenic, high protein, paleo, vegan. And typically it's because the, whatever nutritional intervention is being employed, it's so dramatic so as to not be sustainable. Additionally, a lot of times people are concerned about losing weight and it would be very powerful if people could evolve their thinking to go beyond losing weight. In other words, making the number on the scale go

down and asking themselves the question, what do I need to do to repartition my body composition? In other words, what I really want to be doing is gaining lean muscle mass and losing fat mass. So becoming more muscular and leaner concurrently. And there's a lot of ways to do that, but the advantage to that is that you're not only changing metabolism, but you're, you're employing a practice that's sustainable over a lifetime. And so, you know, when people like they do get stuck, they're at a plateau, what do you usually suggest that they do? Just like, do they need to change something? Lower calories, increase calories? Like, you know, like your body just gets sort of used to everything, right?

Sure. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty common for, you know, any intervention to induce an attenuation effect. Or in other words, your body adapts to it. And so you stop getting the same response. So for a lot of people, they'll employ a cyclical ketogenic diet where they'll go through periods of ketosis and then go through periods of perhaps having higher protein, a little bit more fiber, perhaps even a little bit more higher glycemic carbs, along with modest fats.

And going through that interval can keep the body responsive, provided that overall calories are controlled and you have some form of exercise that's inducing a mild calorie deficit. And what's the biggest mistake you've seen? I mean, you've dealt with like hundreds of patients doing the ketogenic diet, and I'm sure some of them fail. What's the biggest problems that you see, the biggest issues that people have? Sure. I mean, the general truism is people that tend to be successful are people that measure uh and so with the ketogenic diet it can't be overstated how crucial it is to measure particularly in the beginning with some frequency uh blood ketones and blood glucose because in that fashion you then you actually know uh if in fact you you've

induced nutritional ketosis. And if so, great. Keep on keeping on. And if for some reason you're out of nutritional ketosis, then you have a metric by which you can make an adjustment to get yourself back in. So that's very interesting. We have two minutes left. There is a debate about that. Like some people think, my brother being one of them, that you don't need to check your ketones.

I, for example, love checking my ketones. Smelly's pretty ripped. I've gotten in great shape. We've done it two different ways. I guess I'm answering my own question here, but I guess you could do it either way. But you're saying that to know for sure is the foolproof way. Well, your brother is absolutely correct. There's no cosmic law that stipulates you have to do that. But it's like anything in life when you measure and you have specificity and you have metrics.

Once you become accustomed to understanding what those are and really understanding what they mean, then you can dispense with them. They're not a requirement in perpetuity, right? But in the beginning, to have those numbers at your disposal is incredibly empowering because it's a form of self-accountability. You love exogenous ketones. You talk about them all day long. Are you a fan of them? I mean, like, I know you talk about it because, like, you're actually part of doing the research on these things, but are you a fan of them? I mean, like, I know you talk about it because like, you're actually part of doing the research on these things. But are you a fan of using them? And do you utilize them? Well, they can be very powerful. Now, it should be noted that exogenous ketones are not a substitute for nutritional ketosis, right? And what's important to note there is that, you know, anyone can eat a donut, raise their blood sugar, consume exogenous ketones, and concurrently raise their

serum ketone levels. Nutritional ketosis is a metabolic state whereby blood sugar or glucose tends to be low, and you have a mild elevation in ketones. So really the value of exogenous ketones is I think less so as an energy source, although there is a function there, but more so as an intracellular signaling source. And there's some very, very interesting applications. What do you mean by intracellular, singular, blah, blah, blah? So, for example, one of the things that's starting to come to the fore is the use of exogenous ketones, particularly in the form of a 1,3-butaned dial, can have some pretty profound effects for people who have migraines.

And for some patients, they've been able to completely dispense with taking imitrex. Additionally, as help when you're dieting, in other words, when you have a little bit of a caloric deficit, exogenous ketones have a mild hunger blunting effect, which is a great tool to add in your toolbox. For people who like to use intermittent fasting or cyclical fasting, exogenous ketones can make your brain feel great, particularly when you're going through longer periods of caloric deficit. So there are some uses for them which are pretty profound and, frankly, quite interesting.

There you go. We're done with the 10-minute walk. This has been Daniel Orego. You can find him on Instagram. At IncredibleChap on Instagram. At Incredible Chap on Instagram. Incredible Chap. But mainly you can check out his work at Epigenics.

Foundation.org. Epigenicsfoundation.org. They're doing amazing things. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Chris. Later.