Mark Bell's Power Project - Structure Your Jiu Jitsu Training Like a Pro - Mason Fowler || MBPP Ep. 1062

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

In episode 1062, Mason Fowler, Mark Bell, Nsima Inyang, and Andrew Zaragoza talk about how to structure your training like a world class Jiu Jitsu Grappler. ➢Join Untapped: "UNTAPPED" DISCORD:  https://discord.gg/v7nhcfmc   Follow Mason on IG: https://www.instagram.com/masonfowlerbjj/   Official Power Project Website: https://powerproject.live Join The Power Project Discord: https://discord.gg/yYzthQX5qN Subscribe to the Power Project Clips Channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC5Df31rlDXm0EJAcKsq1SUw   Special perks for our listeners below!   🍆  Natural Sexual Performance Booster 🍆 ➢https://usejoymode.com/discount/POWERPROJECT Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!   🚨 The Best Red Light Therapy Devices and Blue Blocking Glasses On The Market! 😎 ➢https://emr-tek.com/ Use code: POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your order!   👟 BEST LOOKING AND FUNCTIONING BAREFOOT SHOES 🦶 ➢https://vivobarefoot.com/powerproject   🥩 HIGH QUALITY PROTEIN! 🍖 ➢ https://goodlifeproteins.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save up to 25% off your Build a Box ➢ Piedmontese Beef: https://www.CPBeef.com/ Use Code POWER at checkout for 25% off your order plus FREE 2-Day Shipping on orders of $150   🩸 Get your BLOODWORK Done! 🩸 ➢ https://marekhealth.com/PowerProject to receive 10% off our Panel, Check Up Panel or any custom panel, and use code POWERPROJECT for 10% off any lab!   Sleep Better and TAPE YOUR MOUTH (Comfortable Mouth Tape) 🤐 ➢ https://hostagetape.com/powerproject to receive a year supply of Hostage Tape and Nose Strips for less than $1 a night!   🥶 The Best Cold Plunge Money Can Buy 🥶 ➢ https://thecoldplunge.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save $150!!   Self Explanatory 🍆 ➢ Enlarging Pumps (This really works): https://bit.ly/powerproject1 Pumps explained:      ➢ https://withinyoubrand.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off supplements!   ➢ https://markbellslingshot.com/ Code POWERPROJECT to save 15% off all gear and apparel!   Follow Mark Bell's Power Project Podcast ➢ https://www.PowerProject.live ➢ https://lnk.to/PowerProjectPodcast ➢ Insta: https://www.instagram.com/markbellspowerproject ➢ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/markbellspowerproject   FOLLOW Mark Bell ➢ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marksmellybell ➢https://www.tiktok.com/@marksmellybell ➢ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MarkBellSuperTraining ➢ Twitter: https://twitter.com/marksmellybell   Follow Nsima Inyang ➢ UNTAPPED Program - https://shor.by/untapped ➢YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/NsimaInyang ➢Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nsimainyang/?hl=en ➢TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@nsimayinyang?lang=en   Follow Andrew Zaragoza & Get Podcast Guides, Courses and More ➢ https://pursuepodcasting.com/iamandrewz   #PowerProject #Podcast #MarkBell #FitnessPodcast #markbellspowerproject

How many days you do an SNC now? Five days a week right now. You do hard grappling. You also do an SNC on top. So how do you guys moderate that? Let's say I have a hard training session at 5 p.m. I'm not going to do a really strenuous workout that day at noon. We're going to keep it more short and explosive.

That way we can still get our work in. If you're just like an everyday guy, just do strength conditioning on Monday. Do jiu-jitsu on Tuesday. Maybe Wednesday, try doing both and see how you feel. You said you have like four-hour training blocks. What do you do to fuel yourself through all that? We do carbolin and then we do honey. Nasal breathing is huge too. Has it affected your grappling at all? For me, one of my biggest problems is shutting off my inner dialogue and just allowing myself to get into the flow state. So I think the nasal breathing does that for me. You mentioned a lot of overtraining

when you were younger. You think some of that was important? So in order to get good at jiu-jitsu, you have to do jiu-jitsu. But with that being said, I was more injured when I were younger. You think some of that was important? So in order to get good at jiu-jitsu, you have to do jiu-jitsu. But with that being said, I was more injured when I was younger than I am now. If I add up all the time that I lost not being on the mats because of injuries, it probably would have been better if I was doing more strength conditioning and less jiu-jitsu, right?

All right. Got to throw Zinner in real quick. Oh, yeah. What do you got over there? You want one? I don't know. I don't think I've ever tried it. What is it?

What's going on over here? Just so you know, Mark. No, he made me take Kratom last time. I got to peer pressure him. And it just goes underneath your tongue? You just swallow it, the whole thing. No, no, no. All right, let me try this too.

It's really low dose. It's only three milligrams. Three milligrams of what? Nicotine. Okay. Fuck it. Just keep it in your lip? I'll probably feel kind of weird it's like a dip but you don't have to spit so you just put it in your lip like you would like a dip i've never done

it's tobacco free okay all right how long does it stay in there do you have to spit it out um it's a zen okay zen if you're watching sponsor me i I've heard Rogan talk about these before. Nicotine is supposed to be pretty good, like nootropic. It'll be pretty good for the brain. That's what they say. I'm just addicted to it. I don't have a choice. I'm like, it might be good for me or not.

I just can't stop doing it. Like I'm just hooked in, man. How's the body been feeling? I know you've been working with Jake Benson. You've been able to notice some pretty good differences with some of the stuff he's having you do? Yeah, definitely. Definitely feel a lot stronger. And just he has me doing a lot of athletic movements too.

So we do a lot of jumps, box jumps, broad jumps. So yeah, I feel super fast and explosive. I don't feel like I've just put on a bunch of muscle and I can't move now. So yeah, I'm feeling good. Like what do you notice? You said you feel stronger. It's easier to take people down. Is your grip stronger? Like maybe what are you noticing in

Jiu-Jitsu that specifically feels stronger? Yeah, definitely like before there would be some people like the bigger guys that I just would, it would be so hard to do any kind of move to them. Any kind of movement to them. And now I feel that it's just a little bit easier. And then the smaller guys now, I feel like if I can just get my arms around them,

I can really dominate them. Yeah, that's cool. And I know last time you were saying you're a little banged up. And are you feeling a little bit better? Still pretty banged up. Just doing jiu-jitsu full-time is not great for your body but for decades yeah for yeah 12 years now um so of course like always have my little bumps and bruises but been taking like the glutathione now the l-carnitine and i think it's been helping

a lot all right we gotta go back to that strain training stuff but since you brought it up l-carnitine glutathione nectar right i i used nectar for a little bit, but I couldn't handle using it too often, right? I'm a bitch when it comes to needles. But how has that been on your training performance? What have you noticed when you started using it? Yeah, I also hate the needles. I hate doing the injections. Fucking sucks.

But I take it damn near every day. So that should tell you how much I like it, how much I enjoy it, how much I think it helps. Yeah. damn near every day. So that should tell you how much I like it, how much I enjoy it, how much I think it helps. Yeah. Not just like I was saying before, not just with how you feel physically, but mentally, I think it's a game changer. One big thing too, that I noticed as well, after my, my hard training sessions, I always go home and play call of duty. And when I take the nectar, I swear to God, I'm dialed in on the game. I swear to God for call of duty. duty no i take it before training okay but then

when i get home i'm fucking dialed in bro so mentally it does something to you mentally to your focus i gotta add in guys nectar isn't it is a performance enhancing drug but it's not it doesn't do anything to you hormonally it's literally choline and carnitine carnitine l carnitine so it's aminos it's not even like a drug exactly Exactly. But when you inject it, that shit makes a difference. Yeah, I think the choline, I think, might be the ones responsible for giving you that little bit of feeling in your brain. Yep. A little performance enhancing drugs for some video games. That's amazing.

Yeah. I do my hard training and then I do my strength conditioning right after. So it's like a four-hour block. Get home, eat, and then I'm locked into call of duty for a few hours and I feel great. How many days are you doing SNC now? Five, five days a week right now on this program. And before that, cause you were still like not before you were working with Jake, you were still doing some strength conditioning. What, what was the difference there? Was it like more volume you're working with now? How did, how did it actually change? So I would say the biggest

difference as far as the actual training is that now it's specialized and it's programmed. Okay. Before I would do usually one workout with Kalipa like once a week. And it would be more of a CrossFit type workout. Sometimes we would bench. Sometimes we would squat. Sometimes we would deadlift. And then I would do my other two strength conditioning sessions just basically hitting whatever I didn't hit with him.

So like if I did a lot of upper body with him, I would do more squats and deadlifts on my other two strength conditioning sessions, just basically hitting whatever I didn't hit with him. So like if I did a lot of upper body with him, I would do more, you know, squats and deadlifts on my other days. So it was, it was just a little bit more random and now it's, you know, really structured and programized. Yeah. One of the, one of the things of working with someone like Jake Benson is you're going to do some, you're going to do some hard tasks. You're going to do some things that have some difficulty to them, but they're going to be strategic. And then so therefore a lot of it doesn't feel that hard. I'm sure he's got you doing med ball throws and some different things. And when you do it, the amount he's required,

requiring you to do is like not overwhelming, right? Yeah. Some of the training, some of the, he calls those like the creatine sessions. So anytime if I'm doing strength and conditioning, and then I have a training session later in the day, it'll be more of a creatine style session where it's like med ball slams, some explosive work, but nothing that's too strenuous on the body. And then when I do the strength conditioning right after my training, that's when it's like really grueling. So he does have me doing some grueling training for sure. Like a combination of both and the creatine stuff,

you know, please listen to the Jake Benson episode, but also, um, just to make it real short and sweet for people rather than doing three sets of 10, uh, you're doing 10 sets of three, a lot of times or 10 sets of two. And it's usually an explosive movement, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, um, med ball slams, you know, we'll grab a light med ball and you'll slam it as hard as you can two or three times. And then you rest for 30 seconds. Um, and even some of my training partners that I have do the workouts with me. Um, I have one friend, Eddie's Brazilian. He's amazing. It's too easy. I think it's too easy to work out and only two reps. What are we doing? And I'm like, man, shut the fuck up and do the workout. The guy that wrote it for me is a genius. Like he's smarter than you.

Shut up. So smart. Slam the ball, bro. I think that's true, though. I think when you get involved in a program, someone programs for you. You program for people for a long time. A lot of times they go through week one. They're like, coach, I need more stuff. You're like, hey, we'll get to that. Just chill.

First off, I have a head high right now. Is that shit supposed to do that shit? Because I feel light up here right now, dog. We might have to take a little break yeah we can spit it out if you want to if you're getting a little okay i'm i'm lit so i'm just letting you guys know if you see my face doing weird shit i'm sorry but i was asking i wanted to know this man because one thing i find with a lot of grapplers some of them like maybe they don't do much snc because they feel like it gets in the way of their grappling bro what the fuck yeah I mean it's understandable but

that's why you have to have it programmed the right way yes I am literally spinning right now have you ever had any nicotine before in your life? oh yeah yeah you might be going the hardest drugs you've ever had was Flintstones vitamins

get the trash can close Mark seems like he's ever had was Flintstones, vitamins. Just get the trash can close. Yeah, he might. It's okay. Mark seems like he's doing his thing a little bit. I'm good, I think. But if I barf, it'll just be good for the camera. You do multiple of these a day, dog? No, yeah. Usually, I mean, this is the lowest milligram one.

Zinn also makes like the six milligrams, but some other brands make like a 12 milligram and stuff like that. the addicts so they say in like a cigarette there's like 12 milligrams and i do feel a little like uh trembly almost like i had caffeine yeah a lot of caffeine yeah you guys are just like beginners but only three you guys shouldn't throw up if you took like two or three of these you probably i'm not gonna throw up i know i'm not gonna throw but just my head is like up here right now anyway you're saying um what were we talking about the the uh fatigue from snc and grappling because you do hard grappling like hard fucking sessions and you also do an snc on top so like how do you uh how do you guys moderate that yeah it just depends on um

when you're doing your training so okay that's why like if the training let's say i have a hard training session at 5 p.m i'm not going to do a really strenuous workout that day at noon. We're going to do more of a creatine session. Okay. So we're going to keep it more short and explosive that way we can still get our work in, but we're not going to sabotage our workout later. So just finding the right balance. And it also depends. Most people too, that are listening, that are trying to figure out how many times they should lift weights and how, how often they should do jujitsu are like blue belts that have a full-time job and they're not, they don't have all day to set up their training sessions. Right.

So in that case, if you're just like an everyday guy, just do strength conditioning on Monday, do jujitsu on Tuesday, maybe Wednesday, try doing both and see how, how you feel. You know, everyone's different. I just want to explain a little bit of what the carnitine and choline does, the nectar that you're referring to. The carnitine is supposed to help liberate fat. So it's supposed to kind of give you like a boost of energy. And then the choline is something that you might find in like egg yolks and stuff like that. And that's supposed to be good for like cognition. And then glutathione supports your immune system,

and any immune system support that you can get is a good thing because a lot of times when you're beating the crap out of yourself, doing jujitsu and lifting, and then also some of these guys that you're rolling with are disgusting, and it's easy to get sick and all that kind of stuff. Staff and ringworm. Yeah, and so if your immune system's more robust uh could be helpful against some of that stuff as well yeah probably enough

i've never gotten staff or ringworm from jujitsu you what was it yeah staff yeah no it was funny i uh i was just like oh dude it's weird i got this weird like ingrown hair looking thing and then my buddy looks at it he's like you have staff have staff. And I'm like, ha, nice joke. And he's like, no, I'm serious. You need to like, go get that checked right away. And I was like, oh fuck, well this sucks. But what I want to ask you, so you said you have like four hour training blocks. What do you do to fuel yourself through all that? Like, do you have like nutrition in between that? Or is it like, yeah, what do you do? Yeah. So this is another part of my training that, between that or is it like yeah what do you do yeah so this is another part of my training that that jake um modified a little bit so um we do our our really hard competition training i do the

nectar um right before i do nectar and data which is another one of his products i don't even know what is in it but it's another product that he did yeah another thing that's supposed to uh just basically basically some of these things can help rev up your energy or give you more access to the calories that you already consumed. So yeah, I take that stuff. I do my hard training. And then right afterwards, boom, shower, scrub my whole body, try to get all the stuff off my body.

And then we do carbolin and then we do honey. Carbolin is a carbohydrate drink. Okay, so it's like a carb powder, like CarboMax or something. You can bring it up. Maybe, Andrew, a carb powder. It's just like 50 grams of carbs that's derived from that. It tastes pretty good too. It's like an orangey flavor or something.

It tastes great. Yeah. There's different flavors and stuff. Not a sponsor. Just it's a great product. It's derived from like rice and potatoes. So it's not like a sugary carb. So I take that and then I do some honey.

And then we get into the strength conditioning. How's that on the stomach? It feel okay? Stomach feels great. Yeah, no problems at all. And I think the main reason that we do the training like that is so that we don't have to get our nervous system built back up again at night. We're already, you're already in the flow state. You're already locked in. You know, when you're in fight or flight mode right after training, we just keep that going for another two hours. And like some days I do start to crash out, but I just grind, grind it through. And then I'm like, man, just get done with this. And then you're done for the day. Carbohydrates post-workout is like, you know, taking away, taking advantage of the window, you know, that everyone always talks about. And when you do multiple sessions in a day, you can sit here and just say like, you know, if someone eats like two, 300 grams of carbs a day or 400 grams of carbs a day, they might

not really need to worry about their nutrient timing that much, especially if they only train once a day. But if you're a CrossFit athlete, if you're someone that does jujitsu or you like to lift and run and you have multiple sessions in a day, I think it's really important to get some good nutrients. And sometimes for you guys, it makes the most sense to just have something liquid. So that way you can kind of just get right into the other training session. The other thing that post-workout carbohydrates will do is it will help control and manage some of the negative that we get from a training session, such as maybe your cortisol going

up quite a bit. And that will just kind of keep that, I guess, a training session, such as maybe your cortisol going up quite a bit. And that will just kind of keep that, I guess, leveled off, you could say. Yeah. And then the other thing too, I used to have a lot of problems sleeping because I would do my second training session at like 7 p.m. Like most people train jujitsu at night, I'll get done at nine and then I would be in fight or flight and I would have trouble sleeping and I would be up till two in the morning. Just thinking about jujitsu. Yeah. Yeah. Just, or just, you know, you're, you have all that cortisol on your system and you just can't sleep because your heart rate's going crazy. So it helps me to right after that strength conditioning sessions done, it's usually

like four 35 o'clock, take some CBD and just relax. And then I'm just chilling the rest of the night. And then by the time it's 10, 11 o'clock, I can go to sleep early too. Let me ask you something real quick. Do you still, do you still do those evening jujitsu sessions? Cause actually what you just mentioned right there is why I changed my schedule up to where I can, all my jujitsu sessions I try to have during the day, because I did notice 7.30 PM sessions. Every time I'd go home, it'd be like my sleep quality was kind of shitty. So do you still do evening sessions now? Or do you, have you changed your schedule? Not in my day-to-day training. So do you still do evening sessions now or do you, have you changed your schedule? Not in my day to day training.

The only time that I would do something like that is if I'm traveling and maybe I have a seminar on a Tuesday night and it starts at six and it's going to go till nine. Yeah. Then I kind of have to do it. But in my day to day training, I don't train at night anymore. I just teach,

I teach some nights. But it's not the same when you're teaching. Obviously you're not getting all revved up. Agreed. That was always tough for me after lifting, you know, lift in the evening and, and you know get done with a lift at even if it was like still kind of early it was like 6 p.m or something i would just be just staring at my ceiling you know and laying in bed just not wanting to fall asleep just because

your nervous system and stuff is revved up and then sometimes you might start thinking about things that you could do to get better and it's like it just kind of goes on and on and you're not going to sleep. Yeah. And there's some things you can do too. Obviously, like you can do the breathing exercises. There's certain techniques you can do with some mineral. You can take a bath. Like Epsom salt?

Yeah. I think there's like a magnesium. You can do a bath in magnesium. That helps. Obviously, CBD helps. So there are some techniques you can do if you have to train at night. But I would just prefer not to have to do breathing exercises and take a bath every night. I would just prefer to not train at night, right?

Does Jake have you doing anything else for your sleep? Anything in particular that you can think of? That's it, really. He's just – he's harped on the breathing exercises if I can't sleep. But most nights, I don't really have to do them anymore. That's something I used to have to do before when I would have trouble sleeping. But lately, my sleep's been actually really good. By the way, guys, I do want to mention the nectar that we mentioned and all this stuff. I think you have a code for Better Through Biology,

but you can get it from Jake's website, betterthroughbiology.com, something like that. We'll put a link there. Yeah,ount code Mason10. There you go. Yeah. I think what Jake was mentioning on the show is that sometimes with certain athletes, some of the lifters and stuff that he trains, he'll suggest that when they get done with the training session, before they go and like devour a bunch of food, that they get themselves calm, that they maybe lay down for a moment, put their feet up, breathe a little bit. Even if it's just like a minute or two, he found that to be really effective for the way that their body is regulating that food that they consume. So if you think about your day and you're rushing home from work and then you just start to

smash everything in the kitchen, you might want to just try to think of maybe a way to relax a little bit, try to calm yourself down even just just for a couple of minutes. And I think nasal breathing is huge too. That's something that I've been doing a lot more and he's integrated just little by little into the training. Like before, anytime before I train, I just do 10 minutes on the airdyne bike and I just nasal breathe. It's not, not too hard or anything like that, but I think it's almost, it's somewhat of like a meditation. Has it affected your grappling at all? Because that, that, that's, that really helped me stop getting as tired as I used to years ago when I started doing that. So has it affected the way you grapple? Cause you've, I know when I've rolled with you,

you don't seem to like get tired quickly, but has that improved? I would say that it's affected me in a different way that it's affected you. For me, one of my biggest problems is shutting off my inner dialogue and just allowing myself to get into the flow state. So I think the nasal breathing does that for me more so than actually being able to breathe. Okay. So you've said it's easier for you to get into a flow state now. Just anytime I can shut off my mind, I train better. Exactly. Okay. And I agree. That's the same. That's the same thing I've found when it's like, it keeps you calmer. That's the thing. At least for me, it keeps me calmer, which lets me just like, kind of just move without thinking as much. Whereas like, if I was like breathing through my mouth or I started getting tired, I'd's like, it keeps you calmer. That's the thing. At least for me, it keeps me calmer, which lets me just like kind of just move without

thinking as much. Whereas like if I was like breathing through my mouth or I started getting tired, I'd be like, oh shit, I'm getting fatigued. It's my, my game's not working. And so, yeah. Yeah. It's crazy how much you get in your own head. For me personally, I'll start thinking about like, oh man, I'm, I'm feeling tired.

Maybe I'm over-trained. Maybe I didn't sleep good last night. Maybe I should have warmed up better. I feel a little stiff. Maybe I should have warmed up better. I feel a little stiff. Maybe I should have stretched more. Instead of just like, none of that stuff matters right now. Just like deal with this dude that's in front of you. Yeah.

Once you start to think, I think it becomes sort of problematic. You're overthinking and you can think back to when you were a beginner, how much you had to think about which leg goes where, which arm goes where. And when you're thinking of those things, it's really hard to actually just flow with it, just go with it. I've noticed the same thing with running. I've noticed the same thing with lifting. Once I had to like overthink, I'm not saying don't think at all because sometimes it is good to have a cue. Sometimes it is good to be mindful of stuff. But even something on like a run, if I go and run with somebody else, even though we're not nasal breathing the whole time because we might be in conversation, I did it with Andrew.

Andrew ran five miles for the first time. We just, we talked through it, you know, just talking back and forth. And I didn't really want to say anything, but we were at like four miles. And I was like, he's probably starting to feel it now. So I just started to talk to him more. And I just was like, rather than asking him questions, which would have made it worse for him, I was just, I was just like talking, talking, talking. And I was like, we're close to five miles, dude. And he's like, really? Yeah. If you would have told me that at like three and a half miles,

like we're going to go for five, I would have been like, Ooh, probably not going to make it. I wanted to wait it out a little bit. Cause then all of a sudden my feet would have started hurting and I would have thought about that. And it's been just like you were saying, like way all up in my head. So you were talking to him, but you weren't asking him questions. So you weren't engaged. It was more like you were giving a monologue. Yeah, exactly. I would prefer that way more.

Distracting. Yeah. Because when someone's asking me questions, I'm like, bro, stop asking me questions. But if I could just listen to you talk, yeah, that's perfect. Yeah. I think you need a distraction. And I think, you know, back to what you were saying about jujitsu, if you can calm yourself down, I mean, this other guy's trying to choke you out and you're like breathing it out of the nose. You're able to kind of zen it a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. How about conditioning outside? Because like your training's grueling, right? Do you do any specific conditioning outside of your grappling sessions? Yeah, I used to do a lot more longer distance cardio and I would do, I would always have it in my head. Like, let's say I have a 10 minute match. Okay. I'm going to do sprints for 10 minutes and then I'm going to rest. And then I'm going to do sprints for 10 minutes and I'm going to rest and I'm going to do sprints for 10 minutes. And, and it was just too, yeah,

it was just too much. When you say sprints for 10 minutes, like what do you mean sprints for 10 minutes? Okay. Like I'm going to go, like, I'm going to go on the airdyne bike and then I'm going to do 20 tens for 10 minutes straight. You know what I'm saying? Something like that. Like 20 hard, 10 easy or 10 hard, 20, no, like 20 hard, 10 off, 20 hard, 10 off. And I would like be like, okay, I got to hold the RPMs at like 72 the whole time. You know, I would do stuff like that all the time. And then, you know, you do that. And then the next day you train terribly. And then the next day you train kind of medium. And then the next day you do the sprint work again. And then, I don't know, it's just like we were talking about before.

I wasn't hitting specific goals. I was just all over the place. You're on this fatigue roller coaster. Yeah. So now we do very, very specific training to hit certain areas that we're trying to hit. Do you think personally you needed some of that sometimes? Like you mentioned in the gym, you mentioned a lot of overtraining when trying to hit. Do you think personally you needed some of that sometimes? Like you, you mentioned in the gym, you mentioned a lot of overtraining when you were younger.

Do you think some of that was important? Yeah, definitely think that the overtraining was important in the beginning to build skill. So in order to get good at jujitsu, you have to do jujitsu. But with that being said, I always think back because I was always injured too. When I was, I was more injured when I was younger than I am now, which is kind of backwards, right? And I think one of the biggest reasons why is because I wasn't really too when I was, I was more injured when I was younger than I am now, which is kind of backwards, right? And I think one of the biggest reasons why is because I wasn't really strengthening my body as much. I was just spending time doing jujitsu.

So then if you go and look at, okay, well, every year I was taking five months off due to injury. I would take like five months off a year due to injuries. When you say off, you mean like totally off the mat? Like torn meniscus. I can't train for three months. Like shoulder popped out, a broken bone in my shoulder, can't train for six months.

And then it's like, if I add up all the time that I lost not being on the mats because of injuries, it probably would have been better if I was doing more strength conditioning and less jiu-jitsu, right? So I don't know. You can look at it from both ways. My coach, Kyle Terry,

he never did any strength conditioning and he's known as one of the most technical jiu-jitsu players of all time. Beautiful grappler. You know what I mean? Isn't that incredible? BJJ is the gentle art, but it doesn't feel so gentle when you get back home from a hard session. If you want to be able to do it for a long time without chronic pain, you have to strengthen all aspects of your body. Build resilience from the feet to the neck. Untapped is a strength program that I made for martial artists and grapplers on the ATG app. We work the body in all of its ranges and develop strength in key areas that are mostly overlooked. The groin, feet, hands, neck, and all

the way the spine moves. You'll also be able to gain some muscle and that's definitely a good thing when it comes to jiu-jitsu. On the app, if you send in your form for any movement you're unsure of, you'll be able to get form coaching within 24 hours. So if you want to join untapped, click the first link in the description to save on your first month of coaching. And also you can join the free untapped discord down below. There's over 800 martial artists, grapplers, and athletes in there. And they ask questions when it comes to nutrition, jujitsu, and training. So join us there. I mean, we have to give credit to jujitsu though, that it is strength and conditioning, right?

Like there's so much strength and conditioning because as much as I run, I mean, you guys could make me tired in probably a minute, maybe even less. Yeah. It's a different type of, you know, energy consumption for sure. But even so, Mark, if you, I know like there's limitations if you start jujitsu with the way you can move, but at the same time, you wouldn't get like a new grappler who's never done SNC and starts going into jujitsu with all the ways their body moves. It's like, you wouldn't get those types of injuries just because you have such resilient tissues. Right. So actually I do have a question for you on this because a lot of grapplers,

especially, you know, younger ones too, they're like, if I want to be able to make it to the top, I have to train, train, train, train. And I get that. But at the same time, if you're training so much that your body's always feeling beat up, that you're getting those injuries, et cetera, do you think that there's a better way to approach becoming a competition level grappler? Because I mean, like, yeah, everyone wants to build the skill super fast, but some people just don't make it there because they themselves up too much, right? So how would you, if you rewound things, how would you have structured your training over the years so that you you're still where you are now, but so that you can be resilient and still have the skill and still be able to compete well. Yeah. You know, the funny thing is that I actually just met this guy. He's a brown

belt. He came to our training this week and he had just competed in the ADCC trials and he's pretty technical. He's like a 10th planet guy, but he's not, you know, he's not like the most athletic looking guy. He's like more typical jujitsu, jujitsu looking guy, technical, but not like super strong or explosive. And he told me, he was like, man, I realized at the ADCC trials that like, he's like, the jujitsu doesn't even matter, man. It's all strength conditioning because all the guys are super strong and explosive. If you have better jujitsu than him, you're still going to lose. You know what I mean? But with that being said, the thing that breaks my heart is when, and I'm too honest, and this is a situation I feel like I should lie to people because people come to me and they say, how do I become a professional jujitsu athlete? And you know,

the first thing I always ask them, how old are you? The guy, oh, I'm 26. I'm like, okay, how long have you been training? They're like, well, I just started training this year. I'm like, guys oh i'm 26 i'm like okay how long have you been training they're like well i just started training this year i'm like the correct answer is that you should probably uh focus on a different career bro like get a time machine motherfucker yeah like it's not i mean there's a very very small very small chance like if you have john jones genetics maybe there's a chance right but like unless you're just a special, special freak athlete, it's probably not going to happen. So, because really it takes time. So the biggest thing is just if you're 16 years old and you want to become a professional jiu-jitsu athlete,

don't try, don't think that you're going to go and make it to ADCC in two years. Think that you have a chance to win trials in 10 years and structure your training accordingly. You know, do the strength conditioning, build your base, spend as much time as possible on the mats, try to train as smart as you can. Try not to get hurt. Surround yourself with the right people. Also, this happens a lot too. Some guy messages me, Hey man, like I want to win the ADCC trials. Um, what do you think I should do? I'm like, where do you train? I train at Bob's Jiu-Jitsu gym in Alabama. My uncle shows me some stuff. Yeah. I'm like, bro, move to Atos. You're not going to win the trials if you're training at this gym with no other people that are at a high level.

You have to train with people at that level. You have to follow what they're doing, get in the program for 10 years, grind it out. After two months, you're going to want to quit. If you can stick with the program for 10 years, you have a chance to win the trials. All right. Now, actually, I'm curious in your thoughts on this. How old is Lovato? Can you look up how old Rafael Lovato is?

Right? 30. He's 30 something. He's probably like my age. 38? The reason why I'm asking is because let's use this hypothetical 26-year-old who's like, I want to be a pro grappler, right? If he were or she were to give themselves 10 years, right, being smart, taking care of their body, because I've seen some really great in shape 36, 38, 40-year-olds, if they keep themselves healthy, there might be a chance for them 10 years down the road if they're smart about their shit even though they don't have the gift of youth right now right the problem is that person is going to be 38 with 12 years of training but lovato's 38 with 30 years of training i know you know what i'm saying

so and he's you know became a world champion when he was however old let's say like 28 and he's competed at 1080 cc's So he has all that experience. He's done 1080 CCs. He's competed against the best of the best for 20 years. So now, because he has all that experience and all the technical strategy, everything, now he can still compete. Yeah, he's 40.

He's 40, yeah. He's 40, yeah. So, I mean, like I said, it is possible, but it's very unlikely. You could maybe play the long game long game and just wait till you're 70 and everybody else is dead by that point you can maybe sneak in some victories even though at that age it's probably still it's a win masters 10 bro just don't tell them my strategy all right but what i will say what you can do as a 26 year old

if you want to make a career in jiu-jitsu spend Spend as much time as you can doing jiu-jitsu. You're not going to make money as a competitor, most likely, but you can get respected enough by everyone in your area as, okay, he's one of the best local guys. He has legit jiu-jitsu. Maybe he's won the Pan Ams at Master 3 a couple times. He won the Masters Worlds. He's a well-respected jiu-jitsu athlete. He's not making his career as an athlete, but he's proven his technique and his jujitsu through competition

at whatever level it is that he can compete. And then you have to get good with people, be a, be a people person, be a good coach. And then you can open an academy and you can make a living through jujitsu that way. Gotcha. What about some of the guys that you coach and you see them starting to, they're kind of wearing it each day. You know, they're just like drained and their shoulders bothering them and stuff. You just kind of say, hey, man, welcome to jujitsu. This is the way it is.

If you want to be a champion, you're going to have to show up tomorrow and the next day and so on. Or do you say, bro, we need to like dial this back a little bit? No, no, no. I'm like, man, however you feel, I feel way worse. So shut up, like just shut up and go train. I dig it. Yeah. Cause I have one kid. He's like one of my best friends. His name is Renee. He's like my little brother. Yeah. And it's like, Oh, he's like, Oh, you know, my back's, my back's a little sore.

I don't know if I can train today. And I'm like, Renee is, are you injured or something hurting? You know, you have to be able to differentiate. And I'm like, Renee, is, are you injured or something hurting? You know, you have to be able to differentiate. And I explained to him, there's a little voice in the back of your head. Joe Rogan calls it your inner bitch. And it's that lazy little voice in the back of your head. And the little voice is saying, I can't train. My back's hurt. You have to differentiate. Is it the little voice in the back of your head? That's trying to make an excuse because you're tired and you don't want to train? Or is it something that's injured and you have to not train so that you can let it heal?

He's like, oh, yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. And then he goes and trains, right? So I think it's important that you have to be honest with people. You don't want to push people too hard and then they get injured and they become overtrained and then they don't perform well because they're overtrained. So you have to find the balance. But most of the time, what I've seen, you know, most of the younger kids or the guys that say that they want to be successful, they want to be successful, but they don't

really want to be. You have to really want it. You have to want it more than that guy that you're going to compete against. Like that guy that beat you at the last tournament, he's training today and he already beat you last time. So how are you going to beat him if you're taking days tournament, he's training today. And he already beat you last time. So how are you going to beat him if you're taking days off and he's still training? Right?

You have to put that mindset in your head. Maybe be a little thoughtless every once in a while. Yeah. Sometimes it's just like you have to kind of also get addicted to rolling. And I think you get addicted to the endorphins that you get when you're rolling. Like for me, I think that when I was younger, I didn't have anything going on really in my life. Didn't really have any money. didn't have any other goals. And so for me, it was like, I had to go train because I didn't have anything else going on. There's always something to work on too, right? So like, even if you're, I don't know, your foot's all fucked up or something,

you can work on something different for the day, right? Yeah. At the very least, if you're completely trashed, go to practice and watch. When the kids tell me, like, I've had kids tell me, oh, you know, my knees. Okay, come to practice. If you're injured, you don't just stay home and watch TV. Come to practice. Watch the training. Be a part of the team.

That's what all the professional sports players do, right? Professional basketball teams, football teams. If guys are injured, they're sitting there at the games on the sidelines. They're going to practice sitting on the sidelines, right? You don't just get a free pass. I fully agree with what you said right there too. But on the bottom tier and do what Mason said, go to practice and watch, but also watch jujitsu, watch good jujitsu. Because one thing that's been helping me a lot in those periods where something

happens and I can't train for a bit, I'll watch guys who I'm like, I really liked the way they move. And I'll just watch their matches over and over and over again. And just kind of put myself in their position if I know they've won. And it helps me because when I sometimes go back to practice, I'll end up partially doing things that I watched. I'm like, oh shit. So that shit like internalizes somehow, you know? A hundred percent. I've picked up, I've picked up just a couple random details from watching random guys. The best things that I've picked up, I got from watching my professor, Kyle,

because I'm also learning his curriculum. I'm learning his techniques. So I think it's important for me personally to watch his matches and his jiu-jitsu. And I've picked up things that he's never taught me just from watching him compete as well. I almost wonder what would happen to someone like yourself that's in your prime, you got some huge matches coming up

and stuff like that. If you were to take like a year or two off, like you take jiu-jitsu off the table and you don't have to do it at the same competitive level and you lifted and maybe ran and did some other conditioning stuff, ate properly, do you think you would have an ability to come back and be better? Or do you think just you'd be too rusty and just, I mean, you've been doing it your whole life. So I'm just

thinking in my head, like all the tools are there and maybe you'd come back and be able to explore some things that you never even were able to do previously? There's a lot of variables there, right? In general, I think that I would be better off if I continued to train through those two years, just because if I look back at how I was two years ago, my jujitsu has gone better. I've added more things to my game in the past two years. But with that being said, there are some exceptions, like maybe in the next two years, I tear an ACL and I have to go through a one-year rehab, right? So then in that case, because of that variable, it would have been better to just not do any jujitsu for two years and work on strength conditioning, come back as

a better athlete. But in general, if you take out all those freaky variables i think it would be better to if i'm going to work on my strength conditioning or my athleticism or anything else to continue training jiu-jitsu at least keep some of it in there yeah yeah because if not you do you get rusty and the skill gets doled out a little bit you have to keep the skill sharp so at this point being the number one ranked nogi grappler first off how does that feel because i mean have you ever been at this ranking before in the past um honestly in my head i've been number one for a long time if you ask my mom if you ask my mom i've been number one for about eight years even when i was a purple belt i was number one okay it's funny just side note every i remember

when even when i was a purple belt before i was even really well known once a month my mom calls me and asks man how come joe rogan hasn't asked you to be on the podcast yet now i can call her and say oh mom i was on mark bell's podcast you know oh does did you know joe rogan gonna get you on joe rogan she always asked me now it's i'm actually at a point where it might be feasible to to get there you know one day you know when when if one or two more big matches i'm kind of you will be on joe rogan's show for sure oh man absolutely that that would be my joe rogan is is one of the biggest influences uh in my life and one of the reasons i'm doing what i'm doing even now because when i was 18 19 i wasn't doing anything with my life. And one of the reasons I'm doing what I'm doing even now, because when I was 18, 19,

I wasn't doing anything with my life before I had started training. I was working for Pepsi. I was stocking shelves. I had no college education. I was just kind of like stuck in that, that loop where like I had a car, I was still living with my parents at the time, but like, you know, you get a car, you get your first job and then it's like, oh, I want to quit my job and pursue something else. But I have like bills now now so i was kind of like stuck in that loop and then i started training in mma got lucky that i found my passion early on in life where i still had time to pursue it right and then i i just clearly remember listening to the podcast every day at work and he would talk about how you have to like get out of the system people get stuck in the system

and you have to like take a chance and i ended up like selling my car quitting my job and i bought a bike and i was riding my bike every day to the gym so really he is like one of the biggest influences that like helped me get to where i am today yeah joe rogan is incredibly motivating i think we don't really always think of him that way but he's uh motivating in the sense that uh he's going to help a lot of people build themselves up by talking about you know going into jiu-jitsu and lifting and all the different things you need to kind of get after it with yeah and then even as i was a fighter early on i got a lot of my information from him too he would have fighters on he would have like mike dolce on and all these

different weight cutting guys and i learned how to do my weight cuts so yeah he definitely led me a lot yeah he gave a shout out to the steak shake the other day oh really yeah it was amazing what is the steak shake steak shake is my protein that i'm gonna sell it's a beef it's a beef protein yeah send you home with today yeah i'm gonna need some of that yeah he probably has gotten like 30 to 40 percent of americans that are doing jujitsu into jujitsu oh for sure the amount of guys who i've heard like oh yeah i started hearing about from jo Rogan. It's, it's crazy, bro.

Yeah. It was the first time I was really exposed to it on a regular basis. You guys ever hear like hunters complain about like the Joe Rogan guys that are out there hunting. They have like all the expensive gear, but they've never hunted before and stuff like that. It's pretty funny. Yeah.

How do you guys like advise and like help control like information overload? Cause again, I'm still white belt. I'm getting better at like watching stuff and then being able to retain the information. But then of course there's times where I'm getting late into the, you know, the training session and I just deer in headlights. I'm like fucking hell, what do I do? And I have to just get back to like the very simple basics. But even then I'm

like, Oh, that guy's passing my guard. I should react too late. And I, you know, again, everything is in my head, but it's like, I don't know which card to put down on the table because there's so many cards that i don't even know which one goes where yeah just um first off beware of bad information there's so much bad information out there nowadays like just step out of x guard or single leg x yeah what are you talking about no No, like even specific. No, just in general. I mean, I mean, you can find stuff on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, everything. 90% of what, what's out there just like purely doesn't work.

Even, I mean, I'm sure I've posted some like ridiculous jujitsu stuff that doesn't, I mean, we've done like techniques underwater. We did like, we showed some moves of like jumping off the walls and doing arm bars and stuff like that you know like it's but the problem too is like whenever i've posted some like really really good jiu-jitsu like solid jiu-jitsu stuff that i've hit on black belts in competition high level competition and then it gets like 10 000 views and then you post some like crazy flying thing that like i've never done like never going to try in competition and it's like two million views so the views this is actually good this is actually good i really like this

one i'm like going to try this one tomorrow you're like watch me tap out mark bell while i eat a pizza it would get so many views yeah so well who's eating the pizza though yeah right i think so the problem is that the algorithms kind of reward just things that look cool, flashy stuff. So yeah, just be careful with the type of stuff that you consume. And I'm lucky that I have a high-level professor that I can learn from. Find a good coach. It doesn't have to be someone that's a world champ. But find someone who's a solid coach that knows jujitsu and listen to your, listen to your professor.

I feel like a big problem nowadays in jujitsu gyms too, is that because there's all this information out there and there's all these instructionals, I bet it's driving like the everyday black belt that owns a school. It's probably driving them crazy. Cause you know, you, you have some cocky blue belt that has like Donaher's instructionals and like has a shrine of Donaher on the wall and then comes into this poor guy's class and he's trying to show a move. And the guy's like, oh, you're not supposed to do it like that, you know. Kick that fucker out.

Yeah. So I'm sure there, I've seen it at, you know, seminars and stuff. I've seen at different schools. you have i've seen at different schools um you know obviously i don't always teach at like the the top competition schools in the planet but at those everyday schools i feel bad for some of the coaches maybe who have never competed because their students probably just like don't believe in them at all right so i feel bad for those guys yeah or they start calling it by like the japanese name you know here's the fuck here we go yeah i can tell i can tell when someone's uh you know studying the donna her dvds because they they use certain words they use certain words um

yeah even even uh not just the japanese words but uh they call things like situations or dilemmas dilemmas most most coaches will say this is a situation, but if they study the Donner Her tapes, then they say, how would you deal with this dilemma? It's genius. It's genius marketing because they changed every word to their specific lingo.

I'm actually curious about that because I got some of those Donner DVDs. They're good. What are your thoughts? Do you think that... the decentralization of having everything come from one professor, I can see where it can be bad, but do you think that that's beneficial for everyone? Cause like somebody in the Midwest that's going to Bob's jujitsu gym, isn't going to get the quality of Kyle Tara, right.

But they could go to Kyle Tara online or they could get some of these instructionals and learn some concepts that they're never going to learn from bob's jujitsu gym right 100 yeah 100 and uh i mean it's genius what they have done because you know they created entire systems most instructionals is just like like my instructionals for example is like hey this is my half guard instructional right um you know know, they were able to make a whole curriculum essentially. And I think one thing that they have going for them too, a reason why they've been so successful, they don't have Brazilian accents, you know?

So they're like, they're just real. And they have such a vast vocabulary. It's easy to understand. Yeah, it's just easy. Donner was like a professor, you know? So he has like a vast vocabulary. He's throwing out all these words, no, um, you know, no accent. So I think that's one of the reasons they just like dominated the market. Gotcha. You know, you, you mentioned Kyle and, um, Kyle, first off he's, he's an amazing instructor, but what are

some of like, what ways does he look at jujitsu that you feel is different from other professors that you've taken into the way that you teach and you compete and kind of how you do your jujitsu? Yeah. Kyle Tara, I know I'm biased because he's my professor. He gave me my black belt, but I truly believe without a shadow of a doubt that he has the best jujitsu of anyone on the planet. That's my personal, um, that's my personal opinion. It's a hundred percent my opinion. Um, and I think the reason why he got so good at jiu-jitsu, because look at what jiu-jitsu is. Jiu-jitsu is using technique and leverage to score the points

or the positions or the submissions in a way that you're using the least amount of athleticism possible, right? That's jiu-jitsu. And the reason why he got so good at that is because he was the smallest guy and he would, he would always compete in the absolute divisions. He was actually the first rooster weight to win a major absolute division. He won the American nationals absolute, I think three times. He's won a few like big absolute tournaments.

And so I think the reason that he got so good at jiu-jitsu um and so good at understanding technique and leverage is because he was always competing training i i mean he i've never seen him turn down a role with someone that's my size or bigger the ultra heavyweights he'll roll with them no problem he has no problem rolling with people that are twice his size. And so I think that's why he got so good at pure jujitsu. Now, when it comes to competition, jujitsu is really not the only thing that matters, especially nogi. Athleticism, strength, size, cardio plays a huge role in jujitsu, especially in nogi competition. So that's why it's important for me personally you know i'm i'm a bigger guy i'm competing against heavyweights i do focus a lot on the

strength conditioning i do focus a lot on the wrestling so i don't think i'll i know i'll never be as good at pure jiu-jitsu as kaio is never it's impossible he also killed a nogi too right yeah yeah he has uh i think the most most Nogi World titles out of anyone. He won like 10 years in a row, the Nogi World. There's no shame in wanting to have great sex. And there's no shame for wanting your member to perform the way it should be. A lot of us sometimes have some issue with blood flow, but that's where Joy Mode comes in. Let me read you these ingredients because it's not going to be very long.

Vitamin C, L-citrulline, arginine nitrate, and panic skin sing. The cool thing about the ingredients in this is that they're all natural and that they're going to help you increase your blood flow, not just everywhere. So you could use this as a pre-workout. You will increase blood flow when it counts to where you need it. So if you know you're going to have a good time a little bit later, 60 minutes beforehand, put some Joy Mode in some water, drink it. And then when it comes time to perform, and you know what I mean by perform, you're going to be ready because you're going to be flowing. Joy Mode is going to help you do that. Andrew, how can they get it?

Yes, that's over at usejoymode.com slash powerproject. And at checkout, enter promo code power power project to save 20% off your entire order. Again, use joy mode.com slash power project promo code power project links in the description, as well as the podcast show notes. How does some of these like super fights happen?

Like the no gi stuff, like going against a Gordon Ryan or something like that is, is just you get selected or is there like, you know, you're number one in the world, no gi. Does it just work out that way if you're ranked that high that you go against each other or is there something else going on?

Yeah, no, every promotion is different, but most of the time, like now at the place that I'm in, which I'm very blessed to be in this position, it was, you know, obviously it was a lot of hard work, but the position that I'm in now, I have, you know, promotions messaging me constantly. Hey, can we work something out? Can we get you on, you know, we'd like to see you against this opponent or, you know, we'll pay you this much, or we want to invite you to this tournament. So I, I'm, you know, I receive a lot of invitations to compete.

What you see with a lot of the guys that are kind of on the come up is that they're, you know, constantly going out and putting their name out there and trying to get on the come up is that they're, you know, constantly going out and putting their name out there and trying to get on the shows. And then really it depends on what kind of following you have. If you can sell tickets, you know, if guys are going to pay you, they want to know if they're going to get an ROI. Right. Yeah. So yeah, it just depends, but it's all open. Everything's open for discussion. There's no, like in boxing, you have the WBC where the number one contender automatically gets the next title shot. It's not like that in jiu-jitsu.

Like, oh, this guy has 100,000 followers on Instagram. He gets a lot of views. Let's give him the next title shot. It doesn't really matter. Any big matches coming up? Yeah, we just signed the contract for the match with with nikki rod main event uh ufc five pass i think the main i'm not sure if it's the main event or not i think it is but yeah that's gonna be the next one how are you feeling for that yeah i feel great yeah we're going through training camp training's been going good i feel you know bigger stronger

than i've ever been athleticism feels good conditioning feels good so wrestling feels good so yeah ready to go have you competed against him before never we actually we actually were in the same bracket um two times one time uh it was like an absolute thirty thousand dollar tournament or something like that and we both we were on opposite sides of the bracket we both lost in the semi-finals um and then the next time we were in the same bracket was for the ufc fight pass invitational it was an eight-man bracket and gordon ryan was the main event against vinnie magalhaes um the day of the waynes vinnie magalhaes pulled out he had a problem with his weight cut they took nikki rod out of the tournament to do the match with gordon and then i ended up winning the tournament. Yeah. Oh shit. Okay. So

if not me and him, we were number one and number two seeds in the tournament. So we would have probably ended up meeting in the finals. Wow. Um, so yeah, we just never, he, he's a little bit bigger than me. Um, we both actually hit the scene at the same exact time. My first ADCC trials that I won was in 2019, the West coast trials. Um, I won it minus 99. He won it plus 99. So we both won the trials on the same day, right after each other. And, uh, you know, we both kind of hit the scene at the same time. Um, I've, I've been competing at the lower weight classes, mostly like 88, 99 around there. Um, he's been competing at heavyweight, but now right now I'm number one ranked, uh,get competitor at 205 pounds.

He's one of the top guys at the weight class above. So now that I'm number one at 205, let's go see what else we can take on. After you beat Nicky Rod, are you working on your wrestling promo to call out Gordon Ryan? Yeah, I mean, I'm next in line for Gordon. That's the thing. You guys were supposed to fight. Yeah, we had a scheduled match. He pulled out due to an injury.

He had popped a rib. And then from what I heard, we were just going to get the match rescheduled. And then I guess he's been having some problems with his gut, his gut health, his stomach issues. So he's not healthy to do super fights right now. He doesn't want to do any super fights. He's, he's only going to do ADCC as of right now. Um, so we'll see if he can get healthy in the future. Um, but I'm sure that I'll be one of the first guys to get a match with him whenever he comes back. So, um, you know, for a long time, I was waiting because I had the match with Gordon in my back pocket. I was waiting. I didn't want to compete against, you know, the top tier guys.

I didn't want to risk losing. I was playing a little bit safer. I wasn't being super active. And then I had the match and then it fell apart. And now I don't know when I'm going to get it. So I'm just at that point where I'm just like, fuck it. Let's just go compete against all the top guys. That's why I wanted the match with Pedro. He I'm just at that point where I'm just like, fuck it. Let's just go compete against all the top guys. That's why I wanted the match with Pedro. He's ranked number

one in the world. And that's why I want the match with Nicky Rudd. What do you think as far as like the fight pass invitational right now? I think your record's five zero. I don't know if anybody else has an undefeated record there, but I mean, it's somewhat newer. Do you think it's like kind of changed the landscape of no-gi grappling, the way they're doing things at Vice Pass versus other promotions? Yeah. I mean, they're doing something great for the sport of jiu-jitsu. Having a big player like the UFC that's heavily involved in the sport is amazing for us, for the athletes. Now we have UFC involved. We have won championships involved. We have flow grappling. And then on top of that, there's all these other promotions that are, that are coming up as well. So, um, it's just more opportunities for the

athletes, the guys that want to actually be professional athletes and make a living. We have to have these avenues and these stages to be able to compete on, to promote ourselves. And that way we can get like sponsors and stuff like that. But then also now we're, we're getting big fight purses as well to actually make a career on competing and then sorry if i miss it but what weight class will the nikki rod fight be in open weight absolute okay sorry yeah so no weight class yeah and then are you gonna where do you think you're gonna walk into that fight like where are you gonna weigh um i'm around 225 right now i want to be a little bit lighter just because like nikki he he really pushes the pace and pushes the cardio so i'm trying to just make sure my

cardio is on point so i think if i'm a little bit lighter i'll be a little bit faster so ideally i'd come in around you know between like 220 and 225 what does it what does it take to get in a position that you're in that maybe people uh like people that do jujitsu maybe don't know or think about, like, what does it take to be a champion? Yeah. Um, in today's day and age, um, I mean, to be a champion obviously takes 10 years of training and discipline and a lot of sacrifice. You're not going to be able to go out with your friends on the weekend. You know, you're not going to be able to hit the club on Saturday night. Uh uh you're going to miss a lot of weddings you're going to miss birthdays no that shit sounds fun yeah yeah training's way better anyways right you're not

going to be able to go to disneyland for a week with your girl you know what i'm saying like you got to make sacrifices like and and the people in your life have to understand that. My mom, you know, calls me, hey, you know, if you can't come down and see me for my birthday, no problem. I know you're training. You know what I'm saying? So like, you know, I still do try to make time for the people in my life to do that type of stuff. But the people close to me understand, you know, my parents understand, my close friends and family understand um it must be really hard to like juggle anything else yeah exactly it's hard to juggle anything else and uh at this point i made it this far i'm 31 now so um every time i'm i'm in a tough training camp

i'm always telling myself okay this is the last one right so uh right now i'm for sure gonna do this match adcc um and then uh yeah eventually in the next year or so i i definitely want to open up my own school and live a little bit more of a laid back life enjoy life a little bit more did you say that on the last time you're on the podcast two years ago yeah the the problem now is that uh i got a really good thing going with the ufc yeah and the ufc uh loves what they're doing with jujitsu and they're planning on continuing to keep on doing what they're doing so yeah as long as i have this opportunity with the ufc i'm going to try to ride it till the wheels

fall off um so but definitely when i'm tired after practice i'm i'm just fantasizing about like man i wish i just had a school and i could just teach a couple of classes and then just hang out the rest of the day. But that's we'll start a whole nother whole nother set of stresses, you know? Yeah, exactly. But it'll be different. It won't be as physical, at least. Are you seeing like anybody like as far as like for the UFC fight pass with with jujitsu athletes, like anybody starting to get like agents and that sort of thing to help like negotiate? Yeah.

Really? It's getting that big then? Yeah. Whenever someone offers me anything as far as sponsorship or as far as competition, my coach actually handles it for me. He talks to them for me just because it's a little easier to have someone negotiate those things on your behalf. If someone hits me up and they're like, hey, we have $100 for you. Do you want this protein powder? It's hard for me to be like i'm worth more you know if you have you are though but i mean yeah but i don't like i'll just rather not have to deal with that

kind of stuff and it's just extra stress too especially when you're talking about competition and um this opponent that opponent me personally like like, man, I'll grapple anybody. You know, it's not MMA. It's not even, it's not that scary. You're just grappling another dude. Yeah. So it's, uh, I would just be the person to just accept whatever match, but it's good to have someone kind of managing your career.

Like, Hey, let's take this matchup right now. Let's do this matchup. So, um, yeah, there's, there's management companies now for jujitsu. There's, there's a few managers that have came out and signed guys. I'm lucky that I have Kyle there. I know that he has my best interests at heart. He's not looking, Kyle's not looking to make any money off me. He, when he does deals for me or negotiates for me, all he cares about is what's best for me. So I let him handle that and I have all my a hundred percent full trust in him. That's awesome. Um, in your experience, what has been more fun? Because you're saying it's like,

Oh, I'm just grappling the dude. So it's like not that scary, but are you having more fun with super fights or like tournaments? Yeah, man. Um, that's a good question. I do. I love the tournament style. Um, I do love the tournament format because at the end of the day, when you're back in your hotel room and you're like rewatching all your matches, it's like, you got a lot of like, you could have like a whole like five minute highlight reel of all the dudes that you're jacking up.

Right. But when you do a super fight, it's just kind of like you have just that one match. But on the flip side, the thing I love about super fights is like, boom, like let's say you tap the guy. It's over. Let's go get a beer. It over and money and money yeah no that's the most important part right and you're

right now but there's some tournament like let's say there's a tournament with for like a twenty thousand or like a fifty thousand dollar grand prize yeah there can be money in the tournaments as well right um it's less likely to get a lot of show money when you're doing a tournament though. In the super fights, it's more likely that you'll get a nice little show money. So even if you lose the super fight, you're still getting paid.

But the best thing is just, it's similar to MMA. When you tap the guy or when the ref stops it, it's all, it's it. But I guess if you, I've actually never lost a super fight. I've only lost in tournaments. Yeah.

I've never lost a super fight before. But then if you were to lose the super fight, you'd be like, fuck, it was my – at least if you lose in a tournament, you beat a couple guys the first couple rounds, and then, all right, you lost in the final. But you still won three matches that day. But if you lose the super fight, you're 0-1 for the day. And that's it. You get no other chances.

I saw this really cool clip of uh don fry the other day you know um he was just talking about old the old mma you know when it was a tournament style oh yeah you had to fight like three or four people to get to the end he's like these kids nowadays are a bunch of pussies you know don fry with the mustache and everything it was just amazing because that's got to be so difficult to have mma fights to fight three or four people has got to be really tough. When you do some of these tournaments, I know it seems like in SEMA, sometimes he'll text us where he's at in his event, and it seems like you're grappling people.

It seems like you're going through maybe three or four people in a short period of time. So the amount of conditioning you guys must need must be pretty wild. Yeah, I prefer when it's like you get a match and then like maybe 20 minutes later you get the next match. 20, 30 minutes later you get the next match. I hate – I did one tournament that was – it was a 16-man bracket. And it was Saturday and – I mean that's how ADCC is too.

ADCC is like that it's saturday and sunday you do your first match at like 10 a.m and then you do your next match at like 3 p.m and then your next two matches are on the next day so they're like really spaced out yeah because then you have to like get really worked up compete cool down, eat something, relax. Try to relax for like four hours and then warm up, compete again. I like it better when it's just like you're knocking them all out one at a time because then it's like boom, boom, boom, and then you're done. Yeah. Yeah.

And in like MMA, I can't imagine like you get hit and beat up a little bit in that first one. And then four hours later, you're in like the super fight or whatever that would be like it just seems like it'd be really hard you'd be bruised and battered from like something you did earlier in the day no yeah in mma they would do them all in one night so it would be like the first round goes and then you would have maybe an hour and then the second round goes and then you have like like 45 minutes and then the finals goes. Yeah, you get concussed. If you have a war the first match, it would be so bad for your brain. It would be horrible, yeah.

I'm curious about this, man, because you mentioned it earlier with that brown belt that's training at your gym, the 10-planet guy. You said that even though he's super technical, he's getting outgrappled by just bigger, stronger guys, right? You don't see that as much like in in uh in the gi you'll see like the guy who's like super technical like a cow or like a guy who's 160 pounds can still mop up a super athletic ultra heavyweight why do you think that is yeah there's just more there's more control points with the gi okay and it's harder for guys to slip out of things yeah so like if uh if i'm in someone's closed guard in the gi they have the sleeves they have the lapels to pull me down um if it's no gi i just got to get my hands in their armpits and

stand up and i'm out so it's just way easier to slip out of positions daily heva guard like passing someone's daily heva guard when they have the lapel and they're pulling your posture down you got to break the grip then you have to fight the daily heva a guard when they have the lapel and they're pulling your posture down, you got to break the grip. Then you have to fight the daily heave a hook. Then you got to create some space and then you can try getting around. Right. Yeah. So that makes me wonder this. Now, if, if, you know, if an older person, a guy who's like 35, a girl, 40, 45, wants to start jujitsu, would you suggest they try? You'd suggest the gi?

Yeah. Training the gi. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. It's just a lot slower, a lot less athletic. I think no Gi just turns a lot of people, everyday people off too, because there's so much sweat, and it's more likely that you're going to catch an elbow to the face. Yeah. It's more likely that you're going to slip on the mats. So I think it's a little more dangerous,

and the Gi is just a lot more controlled. Older guys, most older guys like the gi more. Do you think like if you do train in the gi for a while as an older person, like if you do, do start doing some no gi, you'll have a bit of an understanding on how to grapple? Will it give you some of that? Yeah, I think it translates. Okay. It translates pretty well.

All right. Yeah. Yeah. I get kicked in the nuts every single time I train no gi. Yeah. It's real. 100% of the time no gi. And your nuts are just a magnet, bro.

You got a big old dick. That's why. It's that, but that but also like he has a big old sack yeah been on trt for a little bit how do they find it every time just because i my dumb ass will because i'm used to the so i try to go straight for headquarters position every time and then they'll just go for like a single leg x or just do some no gi shit that I'm not used to. And then it's whack. Like, oh, fuck, dude, I need a second. Hold on. So it just happens every time.

We should be wearing cups. I don't really like that you can't wear cups in Jiu-Jitsu. I mean, I understand because you can use the cup as a weapon and you can break someone's arm really easily. But it's like I think about it sometimes. And like I feel like my dick and balls are taking a lot of damage, dude. Taking a beating. Like, it can be good for you, right?

Probably desensitizes over time, too. No, and all the rubbing, too. Like, it probably desensitizes the tip a little bit, too, right? Last longer in bed afterwards, maybe? Because it's desensitized. You can't feel anything. Just, you know those things that girls put over their nipples? Oh, yeah.

Put one of those. Just put one over your dickhead. Like a hood. Yeah, exactly. Like a silicone hood exactly sound like aftermarket new product yeah aftermarket hood bro someone invent that shit make some money right before you slap hands hey are you wearing protection right now yeah all right cool me no that's actually a good idea because they say when you're circumcised all the rubbing on the head desensitizes it right so you can get a hood to just wear like a sock that you can wear

all throughout the day. Luckily, Andrew, you don't need that. No, I'm good. I just got that. I just got that, man. A constant thing that's been beneficial for all of our health has been intaking enough protein, but also intaking quality protein. And that's why we've been partnering with Good Life Proteins for years now. Good Life not only sells Piedmontese beef, which is our favorite beef. And the main reason why it's our favorite is because they have cuts of meat that have higher fat content, like their ribeyes and their chuck eyes, but they also have cuts of meat like their flat iron. Andrew, what's the macros on the flat iron? Yeah, dude. So the Flatiron has 23 grams of protein, only two grams of fat, but check this out.

Their grass-fed sirloin essentially has no fat and 27 grams of protein. There we go. So whether you're dieting and you want lower fat cuts or higher fat cuts, that's there. But you can also get yourself chicken, you can get yourself fish, you can get yourself scallops, you can get yourself all types of different meats.

And I really suggest going to Good Life and venturing in and maybe playing around with your proteins. I mean, going back to the red meat, there's picanha. All kinds of stuff. There's chorizo sausage. There's maple bacon. That stuff's incredible. The maple bacon is so good. The maple bacon is really good.

Yo, my girl put those in these bell peppers with steak and chicken. And oh my God, it was so good. But either way, guys, protein is essential. And the Good Life is the place where you can get all of your high quality proteins. So Andrew, how can they get it? Yes, you can head over to goodlifeproteins.com and enter promo code POWERPROJECT to save 20% off your entire order. Links in the description, as well as the podcast show notes.

How important is it for you to have like intent in your uh sessions yeah super important especially when you're training uh for a specific opponent um so again i know i'm talking about kyle a lot but he's a big part of my training but i'm that's why i'm so lucky to have him as my head coach because i'm not big on like watching tape i'm like your typical just I want to just get in and train and work hard and when I'm out of the gym I want to be I want my mind out of jiu-jitsu and he's the one that like is just watching every match I remember one day I came into the gym because he told me to watch it was when I was preparing for Craig Jones he told me

to watch uh some tape on him and he looked like he hadn't slept. He had bags under his eyes and he was like all sleepy. He's like, Mason, Mason, did you watch tape? Did you study Craig? Like I told you. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. I watched like two of his matches.

And he's like, really? Really? You watched two of his matches? I watched every single match he's ever had. And I was like, fuck, were you just like up all night? He's like, I was up all night. So he's like super meticulous and like obsessive. And, um, even one little thing that he gave me in the match against Pedro. Um, he told me to only shoot to my left side because he guillotines with his left arm. So if I shoot to my right, my head's going to be right in the guillotine.

And if you watch a shot and if you, you can't pause it on Instagram, but if you see when I shot, he tried to guillotine with, with the left hand. So my head was across his body. So then when I was able to take him down, I landed right past his guard because he was guillotining with the wrong arm. If someone's on the single leg, you want to push the head to the outside and guillotine on that side. Then when you land, you're in, you're in guard and you can finish the guillotine. So that, I mean, the whole strategy, the whole way that I won was a hundred percent Kyle, because I wouldn't have like, honestly, probably wouldn't have watched. Yeah. That precision of

working on that in practice must have paid off big time. So all that I did in the whole training camp was shot that single leg to my left side. That's, that's super dope to have a coach that looks at those details because every athlete, no matter how symmetrical or even they try to be in their game, they have tendencies. 100%. A good coach will be able to find that for you. Yeah. That's fucking amazing. So, yeah. So he, he usually studies the tape.

Oh, we worked on the Katakatami a lot to this camp um it's funny if you if you listen to the the corner and he's like mason just like we practiced mason just like we practiced because we did work on it a lot in the training camp um that was quick dude but the way he passed his guard like uh because he was holding on to the guillotine okay so that's why i was able to pass this. This is just beautiful right there. Oh, my God. That's sick, dude. Yeah, so luckily I have a coach that helps me a lot with watching the tape, coming up with the game plan, strategy, the technical advice.

Even a lot of people have said that I'm good at kind of like playing the rules. That was more in the past when I was in the EBI, overtimes and stuff. But people used to always say that, that I'm good at kind of like playing the rules. That was more in the past when I was in the EBI, overtimes and stuff. But people used to always say that, even like Gordon has said it, that I'm really tactical and I'm really strategic. And it's just all Kyle. Like it's all Kyle.

I'm not like tactical at all. Kyle sets the whole game plan for me. And then I just go and train and try not to think about that other stuff. When you do seminars nowadays, do you find yourself like, someone asks you a very direct question do you find it kind of hard to answer it back directly just because you uh know so much and you've been uh you maybe have kind of zoomed out on what it's like to be a beginner kind of kind of um yeah i kind of know what i mean like yeah it's like if someone asks me a question, but they're asking the wrong question.

Like to me, that's not like, and then I do my best to try to explain it to them in that way. Sometimes with powerlifting, I felt like I needed to kind of lay out some life lessons first before I kind of got into the exact details of what they were asking me. Yeah. And sometimes I will do like a Q&A at one of my seminars. And it'll, I mean, I've had a Q&A that lasted like an hour and a half before because someone can ask me something that sounds like a simple question,

but you have to answer it in such an intricate way to give the right answer. You have to explain all the variables just to answer that one like simple question, right? And you're like, man, I just thought I was asking a quick, easy question. I know uh i used to have people like sometimes go to the trade show and someone would be like oh man i was i'm so excited to meet you this is amazing um i was waiting in line for you know two hours and i'd be like all right we'll spit it out you know i thought they

would have like a question about like life or how to manage business and stuff or whatever. And they're like, I just can't quite lock out my left side on the bench. I'm always like, all right, well, I guess I'll give him some advice on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One thing, one of my favorite questions is like, uh, like what's your favorite submission? And it's like, you don't like, let's say I'm rolling. Let's say I'm rolling within SEMA, right?

I'm not going to be like, okay, I'm going to armbar him. I have to see what submission presents itself. So your favorite submission is the one that your opponent gives you. They have to react in a certain way for you to get any type of submission, right? Yeah. I'm curious about this, man, because you're, you're one of those like really strong, big players who has insane mobility. Like you can get into the rubber guard super easily. You can do these things that a lot of guys aren't able to do. Have you always had that level of mobility

or did you like slowly build that as you grappled over the years? And if, if someone wants to try to build that, but they don't have it, how would you suggest they do that? Yeah. So first there's a lot of factors that have helped with flexibility. Right. But the first thing that I think was the most important is that ever since I started training, um, I would always do like a 15 minute stretching routine before training. Okay. So I would get to practice always 15 minutes early and do some stretching before I would train. Um, and then on top of that, um, I did yoga for a few years. I just went to like a yoga class, like once a week before you started doing jujitsu. Um, it was while I was doing jujitsu. Yeah. While I was doing jujitsu, uh, a little bit into my

jujitsu training, I started doing one yoga session per week. Um, I would, I would stretch like every Sunday on my rest day cause I didn't have anything else to do. So I would just do an hour long stretch, like take a couple of hits of weed and do an hour long stretch, put some music on like whatever. Right. And then on top of that, um, I had the Eddie Bravo book. That's how I learned how to play the rubber guard. And in the book, he actually has some stretches to help you get better at the rubber guard too. So then I incorporated those stretches into my stretching routine. So really, um, it, it wasn't some like genetic thing. It was just something that I built up through time. Like someone can say like, Oh, and SEMA, you just have a strong bench. You naturally have a strong bench. It's like, no motherfucker. I've been benching for like 20

years. Right. So it's, it's a similar thing as I've gotten older, I've gotten a little bit lazier in the stretching department. I'm not as flexible as I used gotten older, I've gotten a little bit lazier in the stretching department. I'm not as flexible as I used to be. I used to be able to put both of my feet behind my head. So I used to be way more flexible than I am now. But you naturally, like in the gym today, you naturally just kind of chose to do some exercises where you were moving around and doing some mobility. So is that part of your practice a little bit? Yeah, definitely. And even on a day like today, it's Sunday. You know, I'm feeling a little bit stiff.

So I'm like, all right, we're just hanging out here. Let me just grab a mat and just do some stretches while we're all hanging out and talking. So I do just try to add the stretching in as much as I can. But if you don't stretch consistently, you will start to lose it as well. So you have to, it's one of those things you got to stay on top of in the mattress is luke griffith i think there's a good example of some of your rubber guard i don't know if andrew can find out i just want people to see like you're you're fucking huge yeah rewind no it'll be uh yeah there's one there with goddio if you go back a little bit yeah you'll see um oh yeah they don't show the rubber guard that much here they just show

the triangle yeah the the next match against luke they'll show um i think it's crazy because you and luke are both huge and the way you got into that position it was just wild see where the fuck is it yeah and also playing playing the rubber guard consistently like playing it in the fuck is it? Yeah. And also playing, playing the rubber guard consistently, like playing it in the gym is like stretching. So if you just, if you just hold the position, then, you know, you're naturally just kind of like stretching yourself out a little bit. Yo. That's a good point.

I mean, jujitsu is, there's a lot of mobility involved in just jujitsu itself. Yeah. And another position too, that the flexibility helps a lot is um like controlling the back being able to place the hooks in you have to have a lot of dexterity with your hips sometimes the guy's shelled up and you have to throw the hook all the way over his knee and so you have to really be able to bring your foot up and around holy shit and you tap oh that that was the sub oh no it wasn't we ended up going to the overtime okay that's impressive, man.

Did we have any questions come through? I think you were asking on Instagram while he's kind of checking some of that out. I think last time you were here, we did talk a little bit about your food and your diet and stuff like that. What is that looking like? Any changes over the last couple of weeks, months, or year? Yeah. over the last couple of weeks, months, or year? Yeah, so the biggest change that I've made through working with Jake

is that we started doing carbs pre-workout now. So I used to do mostly protein and fat pre-workout and keep the carbs more so to post-workout, but he's switched me now. He has me working more on carbs as my fuel. So I still do a lot of red meat. I do red meat, white rice, couple of eggs in the morning, train, and then I'll do the same thing post-workout. So I'll do red meat, eggs, white rice. One other small change that I've added in just recently,

because I want to lean out a little bit, is that besides my pre and post training, I've added a little bit more chicken to some of my other meals. So just because it's like less fats, a little bit lower in the calories. So just to trim up a little bit, if it's one of my meals that isn't pre or post workout, I'll do chicken with some white rice or I'll do like chicken with some cashews or something like that. And then one thing that I've been doing a lot as well is something that you always talk about. cashews or something like that. And then one thing that I've been doing a lot as well as something that you always talk about. And it's another thing that Jake really harps, harps on is to not do carbs and fats in the same meal. So I try not to, like, if I'm doing white rice with the chicken, I won't do any extra like cashews or anything like that. I'll just keep the

white rice and the chicken for that meal. And then if I want some cashews, that'll be my next meal. I'll do cashews with the chicken. What was his reasoning? You can probably explain better than me. Yeah. Just end up overeating. You know, it's pretty simple if you have carbs and fats together. Is it mainly the overeating bit or is there any performance aspects to it? Um, well, uh, from a performance standpoint, it just will maybe take a little bit longer to digest. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you want to, you want, um, especially before a workout, what I would say is like, yeah you want to you want um especially before a workout what i would say is like if you if you know that you're going to do something hard on like monday um sunday night would be where you would want to get your fats in because fats just take longer

um having fats in the morning before exercise most likely is not going to do much of anything having some carbohydrates before you work out, especially if they're kind of quicker carbs or simple carbs, you'll definitely feel that during a training session. But yeah, fats and carbs together, they don't, you know, fat, it's good to look at like how things are naturally occurring. You don't see carbs and fats together in nature. It's like very rare except for in milk. And that's like, you know, when we're babies, like we need to fatten milk. And that's like, you know, when we're babies, like we need to fatten up. And so we get carbs and fats together. And then also most of,

most all carbohydrates, I know you can find exceptions here and there, but most all carbohydrates that are found in nature aren't, aren't accompanied by fat. And then protein, most protein that you're going to find in nature is accompanied by fat. So it's like the way that it exists naturally is, is probably the way that we should try to consume it. Yeah. Start mixing it together. It makes it super easy to overeat. Yeah.

That's one thing that I've been, that I've been doing lately is, you know, trying to follow those guidelines. And again, I'm just, obviously I'm in training camp and I have a really tough opponent in front of me. So I'm really dialed right now, but you know, in the off season, I do mix the carbs and fats a little bit more. Cold plunge or sauna or anything like that? I used to, I haven't really been doing, I haven't really been doing it much. I'm joking. No, it's just like, it's just an accessibility thing. I used to do it at Kalipa's house. I know. I was working out with him a lot. Now that I'm on this structured program, I'm just not really at his house as much anymore.

But I used to be at his house like two, three times a week. I used to cold plunge there and stuff like that. I did do a cold plunge last weekend on Sunday with Yuri. We jumped into a river. So I'm down with the cold plunges. It's just more of like an accessibility thing, really. Yeah. Does it help you feel better at all when you do use it?

Like when you did that with Yuri, does it help? Do you feel it helps you with any aspect of recovery or not? I think so. I mean, at the very least, you mentally feel better. Like if you wake up on a Sunday and you feel drained from the week of training, you take a little glutathione, you know, and then you go jump in a cold plunge for 10 minutes, you're going to feel a lot better throughout the day. Sometimes if, if it's Sunday and you're not doing anything and you're overtrained and your body's tired, you're going to feel like a little bit kind of burnt out or depressed. You're not, you're not going to feel as happy. So I think at the very least it does give you some mental,

you know, a little mental edge. I got two questions before we get onto these, these last questions here. First question, you, you mentioned the word depressed there and you, you train really hard and you've trained super hard in the past. And now has there ever been a point where like you literally felt depressed every single time you go to training? Cause I feel like some grapplers, especially when they start training a lot, every session, they're like, I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah. Like, have you felt that? And how do you deal with that? Yeah. I don't even like the word depressed, honestly. Like, I feel like that's just, if I, if I woke up and told myself, oh, I feel depressed today. I feel like I'm just like feeding into it. Right. Yeah. I try to just like,

think about like, I'm maybe even burnt out as a better word, but I'm just taking the right steps to get yourself out of that, that funk and that feeling and just understanding what it is. A huge thing for me is just like going outside. I can remember at some of the times that I felt like I was the most burnt out were the times that I was in the gym all day. And then I would be at home on my phone and then I feel horrible. And it's like, man, are you depressed? Or are you just spending too much time on your phone? Like go outside, go for a walk. Like when's the last time you went for a walk? When's the last time you had the sun in your eyes? Right. So, um, I think just feeling it, recognizing it, noticing it and, and addressing it right away will get you out of the funk, you know, for normal

everyday people, it's like the foods you eat, um, and your habits are what's contributing to making you feel that way. Most likely. Gotcha. Yeah. You're sitting there on your phone and you don't feel like doing something. Walk outside and see if you still feel that way. If you walk outside and you're out for 10 minutes and you still feel like shit,

then maybe it is a day off. Yeah, exactly. Get you some grass. So I think it's good if you just recognize it. And instead of taking that like victim mentality of like, Oh, I'm depressed. Like I need like medication.

Something's wrong with me. Be like, no, I've been irresponsible. I've been on my phone for six hours. I didn't do my laundry today. My dishes are stacked up. I haven't done my taxes,

which I need. I'm going to actually do my taxes tonight because they're due. If you haven't, if you haven't done all those things around that, you'll be crazy how good you feel if you wake up in the morning and get all your laundry done, do all the dishes, clean, go for a walk outside and eat healthy that day. You're probably not going to feel depressed. Yeah. And then the second question is you are a no-you grappler who is very good at wrestling. And I don't know if people understand how diligent you are with wrestling training but when did you start adding training wrestling in as a separate training

and how often do you do it how much do you think anogi grappler needs to train wrestling to get good at it yeah so or jujitsu i i was i was very lucky my my first week in the gym training i was training at this shitty little like it was, uh, it was a very small gym owned by a couple of local fighters called thrive MMA. And I love that place. That's where I was. That's where I was born and bred. That's where my, my first start to jujitsu and MMA was, but it was just a small hole in the wall type gym, right? It was 60 bucks a month. And in that gym, there was a guy, uh, there was a guy named Steven Abbas that was actually coaching wrestling. And he's like an Olympic silver medalist wrestler. So it was just

like by luck that he just was like living in Fresno and he was friends with the owners and he was teaching a few wrestling classes there. So that was like my first start to wrestling. My jujitsu coach, Mike Moreno. Um, he was my first ever jujitsu coach and he was like a purple belt at the time and a former MMA fighter. And he also had a wrestling background. So, um, you know,

there was just a few guys, the MMA fighters we had there had some wrestling backgrounds. So I automatically like my first months into training, I was already starting to learn like single legs and double legs. And I sucked at it of course, but I was exposed to it very early on. Then from there, I ended up, I trained there for like maybe two or three years. And then I ended up moving to Josh Koscheck's gym, which was in Fresno. Josh Koscheck's the NCAA champ and jujitsu black belt. He's actually the guy that gave me my

purple belt. So I trained under him and we had John Salter there. John Salter's a credentialed wrestler, jiu-jitsu black belt. He actually won the ADCC trials in 2017. He beat Josh Hinger and DJ Jackson. So I trained under those guys. And then at a certain point in time, they started recruiting wrestlers to dethrone to to start their mma careers so they recruited ed ruth who's a three-time ncaa champion like one of the best collegiate wrestlers of all time yeah and he was my same way they recruited one of my best friends duron win who's like he was on the u.s national team um so i was always just surrounded by high-level wrestlers yeah so then ended up becoming like good friends with like ed and duron we had like chris honeycutt there, who's like a two-time All-American.

So, and they were all around my size and we were all training MMA together. I stopped doing MMA and then I kind of like became the jujitsu coach for the team. So I was like teaching all these guys jujitsu and then they would help me with my wrestling. Wow. You know, so I was always bouncing things off of them. And then because they were also learning jujitsu, I was getting to grapple with them. So then I was learning how to mix the two together instead of just doing pure wrestling. It was like, I would try to take them down.

They knew how to do guillotines and anacondas and stuff. So I was getting a good version of wrestling, not just pure wrestling, but like wrestling for jujitsu. Then fast forward, you know, moved to San Jose, start training with Kyle, um, had a bunch of, you know, a bunch of great wrestling coaches that I worked with, um, in San Jose. Uh, but, uh, we have AKA there in San Jose. So, you know, I mean, last week I was at Cain Velasquez wrestling practice you know um i in that time period um i've went to to gilroy high school like hundreds of times i trained at the gilroy high

school wrestling practice daniel cormier leads it so it's like everywhere i turn i have some like super credentialed like famous wrestling coach yeah that i've been able to work with and then also i've just like uh like taken advantage. Right. Because sometimes like you have some high level wrestling coach that's 30 minutes away from you, but you just like, don't take advantage of it. So I've always had that mindset that like, I need to take advantage of the resources that I have. So part of it's been luck. I've been in the right places at the right times. But then also, you know, after doing a week of hard jujitsu training, I still get up in the morning and go and do the wrestling practice. That sucks. At this point, nasal breathing while you're asleep is no longer something that just us bros do.

But people are realizing that it can make a big difference in your sleep quality, your recovery, and all aspects of sleep. That's why hostage tape is so important because many people have their mouths drop open while they're asleep. They're snoring and that really affects the quality of their sleep. And that's why many wake up groggy and not feeling extremely rested. Hostage tape will allow you to tape your mouth shut. Even if you have a beard, us bearded folks can put the tape on and can be confident enough that when you wake up in the morning, the tape will still be on your mouth, which will help you breathe through your nose. And they also have no strips. If you're someone who struggles breathing through the nose, those no strips will help you open up your airway and breathe a little bit easier while you're asleep. How can they get their hands on some

hostage tape? Yeah, you guys can head over to hostage tape.com slash power project, where you guys can receive mouth tape and no strips for an entire year for less than a dollar a night again hostage tape.com slash power project links down in the description as well as the podcast show notes do uh jujitsu practitioners do they need a dose of wrestling because wrestling is not just single leg and double leg it's wrestling practice is like known to be brutal yeah i think that aspect of it can definitely help you um any of my students that if i were to start a team i would have my students work on a lot of wrestling because i do think it can help but with that being said you don't have to have good wrestling to become a world champion in jiu-jitsu because you can pull guard right um if you have a

solid guard and you have solid passing you can leave out the wrestling but if you don't have a good guard you can't leave out the wrestling right because then uh if you're like just a top heavy guy like you let's say you just like passing that can't be your only thing because then if you go against a wrestler you're not going to be able to get him down you know so um you have to either be good at wrestling or guard i've always tried to be kind of even in all aspects me personally i try to be well-rounded but if you are going to have a hole you can't have it be both of those things can't have two holes only one all right you definitely can't have it be both of those things. Can't have two holes. Only one. All right.

You definitely can't have three holes. Yes, you can. We've talked about this before. How many holes do we have? Comes up often actually. Yeah. How many holes does a straw have?

That's the impossible one to answer. All right. So. Oh yeah, that's a hard one. First question, rolling versus drilling. Which do rolling versus drilling which do you before which do you prefer from sueyma uh say it again training rolling versus drilling oh yeah everyone loves rolling more yeah rolling is way funner do you drill i do drill kyle makes me drill um

makes you so it's not something you'd want to do on your own not not a little bit i like to drill a little bit but kyle really emphasizes drilling and a lot of time drilling yeah is there any way that you take your drilling to the next level so it's not just going through the motions because some people drill it's like you're drilling with a dead body right i don't know if that how helpful that is so what do you do to make your drilling actually useful? Yeah. You have to have a partner that's reacting correctly. Okay. And if they're not, I would only drill with someone that's competent, right? Like I would never actually drill with a white belt to drill, to do my drilling because it's, you're not going to get anything done. You're going to spend the whole time trying to teach them how to react,

right? So find someone that's at your level that can react properly and then drill with a certain intention in mind. Gotcha. And then next question from Gabriel Carrillo. Have you done any research into the ecological method with Greg Saunders? Greg Saunders, thoughts? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know who the guy is. I've heard of the ecological. I've heard a lot of things like that, like the ecological this or there's a lot of these different systems of like how to get good faster, how to progress faster. In essence, it's kind of like learning jujitsu without pure instruction. Like you kind of have an intention of what you're trying to do. Like you kind of have an intention of what you're trying to do. Like you're trying to get their leg down or you're trying to pass their guard in this way. Move in whatever way you want to get that job done, whether it's getting to mount, getting to position, which allows students to kind of open up aspects of like different types of passing that maybe it's an actual move, but they got to it intuitively.

You know, that's kind of a rough idea of what it is. To me, it's situational sparring. Greg loves that too. I don't want to shit on the guy. He's doing his thing. He has his system that he's made. He's marketing it. Hopefully he's making some money. One of these guys just won trials,

I think. What's that Filipino? I don't know the names. Gone forever. Look it up. I got to look it up. Because that's impressive. If he won trials, it's impressive. If you're a coach and one of your students wins the trials in today's day and age,

you're a solid coach. You're legit. If that's the case, if one of his students won trials he's legit i got nothing bad to say about about a coach as a coach um my opinion on all these certain systems deandre cobrey oh the kid's good yeah the kid's good so if he's doing the ecological whatever then you know more power to him yeah it's not too far off from what you were saying in the gym you know because like how to him. Yeah. It's not too far off from what you were saying in the gym, you know, cause like how we were talking, like a traditional school would be like,

here's step one, here's step two, here's step three. And we never questioned that. We never asked why would that happen or how would that come up with this system? It's like, all right, you're going to like, it's usually like, like let's say the bottom person, they're kind of put at a disadvantage. It's sort of like if it's in the gear or something like you can't use your grips you can't use grips you can only push off and then get them back in your guard or something but he doesn't say here's step one here's step two it's like hey your goal is to try to get your you know try to square up again and then the other person's goal is like okay you

just want to get like knee on belly and then you just figure it out from there but he never says like you're going to want to grab the leg and you're going to want to, you know, do like a Toriondo pass or sweep or whatever the heck they're called. He just tells you like, just figure it out. Yeah. Instead of here's step one, two, three. So it's similar to what you were explaining in the gym, but almost like a little bit more of the figured out on your own approach. It gets rid of the language. Like I took a class where they were teaching in this way. And've only taken like I have no jujitsu skill. I've only taken a couple of classes. Previously when they would, you know, they're telling me technical terms. And then sometimes you get like advice from like multiple sources and it can be a little confusing. And so with this session, it was like, all right, Mark,

you're on the ground. And I was like sitting up and the other person was standing and their job or intent was to try to push me back. And I just had to figure out whatever way I could to not get pushed back. And then I did the reverse of that. I was standing and I had to push the person back. And so it was kind of cool because there was no, there was all words that I'm already familiar with of like, oh, push him this way. You know, you're trying to, you know, get the person to go that way. And there was no jujitsu jargon that would kind of confuse me since I don't know those terms yet. So for me, it was, I thought it was kind of cool, but I don't have experience enough in either way to know what way would be better. From what I've seen, I think there's a lot of ways to become successful, to become good at jiu-jitsu. Most of the time when there's like some system that's

getting advertised or dropped or whatever, it's like a marketing thing. It's a money play. Yeah. So someone develops a system, they market it, and then they try to make some money off it. So that's my personal opinion. I agree. They're trying to make it more palatable, right? Yeah, for sure. Now, maybe because we're not saying as confusing stuff and maybe the classes aren't like as tough and maybe it's not as like old school as some of the MMA gyms that you would go to where people have black eyes and stuff like that. It's more palatable to the public and therefore it's easier to market, easier to keep the lights on with some of your beginner class people.

I do have to say, as far as like when Greg came onto the podcast, I took kind of the way he thought about things. And I took that into the way I trained. And I used to, I guess, kind of look at everything like an A, B, C, do this move, this move, this move. Whereas it helped me kind of look at techniques with your intention is to, with this technique is to get your opponent here. And then instead of just going the straightforward path of like, okay, my professor said, do this, I'd figure out other ways to get to that same outcome that would kind of, um, it,

it allowed for variability with the same position position if you, if that makes sense. So that, that concept kind of helped me figure out more ways to play. So do you, you have it, like you bought it? Is that, Oh, I have some books that explain, cause that ecological approach isn't just something for jujitsu. It's, it's a systems way of thinking about a lot of things. So he didn't like make it up in, in, in the whole way of thinking about the ecological approach.

It's a whole thing. And like they, they do it in philosophy. Yeah. It's like, they do philosophy yeah it's it's like they do it when it comes to math they do it when it comes to other things too he just brought that idea of learning into jujitsu okay so that that's all maybe i just need to actually watch it but my my first line of defense when someone creates a new system or something i'm just like uh like it's just like someone trying to make some money that's true but i i probably just need to look into it and then maybe I'll be like, Oh my God, this is so great.

There's, there's some really cool stuff in there. There's, there's some, he, he's, he's done a really good job. I can say it's not just for money with him.

It's not, he doesn't even sell it. Like there's someone else that does sell like what they call games. And he's like, you can't sell this. He's like, you have to only do it. Like,

you know, he's, he's very big on like, if you want to learn it, like let's hop on the phone, let's hop on a zoom call and I'll show you have to only do it like you know he's he's very big on like if you want to learn it like let's hop on the phone let's hop on a zoom call and i'll show you what to do and here are books for like there are books talking about how to learn this way of thinking so it's a philosophy on how to learn exactly exactly yeah but it's not a jiu-jitsu system no the books are not about jiu-jitsu it's just about the learning philosophy exactly but there's no instructional

no there's no instructional. No. There's nothing you can sign up for like a program? No. Are you sure? Like I said, they have an instructional to sell. There's one person

that did catch on to it and he does sell stuff and they had a little bit of beef and they're cool now, but it's like... So someone else took it and sold it. That's funny, bro.

He has a school and he has some practitioners, right? There you go. Yeah. If one of his guys won the ADCC trials, then they're legit as fuck. DeAndre did.

Yeah, he won 66 kilograms of West Coast trials recently. Yeah, I've heard of the kid before. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's... I think he would actually dig the information. Yeah, probably. It's just a different way

to maybe think outside the box a little bit. Yeah, we can connect you easily if you want to. It's just like I said, you know like i said there's so much bad information out there yeah as soon as i learn something with like a new name and then it says like system i'm just like it's not i'm like i'm out of here i'm not gonna look at this bro you know so it's just been around a long time yeah yeah it's just an instant reaction i'm like what's

the new thing like it's 99.99 so you're becoming an. It's just an instant reaction. I'm like, what's the new thing? Like it's 99, 99. So you're becoming an old head is what you're saying. Yeah. I'm like, no, I'm not. You got yourself to where you're at by being on the mat. Yeah, exactly. Right. Screaming at people.

And listening to coaches. Yeah. Get off my mat. You're the old guy in the corner now. Yeah. No, it's just like I showed, I surrounded myself with successful people. I showed up. I listened to what they said.

And then I just did the work. Good show. That's my ecological approach, you know. around a lot of maniac wrestlers too it sounds like yeah wrestlers just i mean just successful people in general even with like kalipa you know like he was a he was a crossfitter but just cross the game's champ he's exactly yeah he's a one percent of a one percenter he's a he's a winner so even that guy is nuts no yeah no yeah love him bro so that's why it's like even if like i'm not doing the crossfit workouts anymore even if i can just like he comes and trains with us sometimes just love having him

in the room because it's just like just surrounding yourself with winners as much as you can in sema i love when in sema comes in You know? Even though he's a silver medalist. I hate you. I hate you. He's still a winner in my book. He's a winner in my book. He's just making you better every time.

He said it, not me. I felt like he was going to say it. That's sick. Were there any more questions from Instagram? Nah, nah. Well, then I got a fucking white belt question.

So I'm 30, going to be 39. And I'm still, I'm a year and a half in. I'm still trying to figure out the balance of training on the mats and then training off the mats with like lifting and stuff. But you have said multiple times, like you just need the mat time. And even in the gym, you were like saying something to the effect of like, don't worry about overtraining. Like you can't really do too much when you're just just getting started like you need that mat time but i have hit walls where like i said like nothing sticking like information that's being said taught in class just like fuck dude i can't replicate that shit like it's too hard and then

the next day i would try to go lift and get a terrible lift in um and sema coached me up and he said like dude maybe just take a day off and then i took like a go lift and get a terrible lift in um and sema coached me up and he said like dude maybe just take a day off and then i took like a week off and i felt great came back stuff was sticking again but i i just i know that like the what you've been saying and obviously you're you're at the top you're number one right now so your advice is going to be a you know spot on but what is the the ratio there like what's the maybe not a week off a week is a little much glutathione nectar discount code mason 10 yeah and get your ass back on the mat better through biology.com yeah no but really actually actually glutathione take one day off and then

get back to training well you said you're 39, you said? I'm about to be, yeah. Okay, you could get two days off. All right, cool. Two days, but not a week. A week is too much. Is the first thing that pops in your head that like, maybe this guy just needs to get broken?

Like broken down? Be honest, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, does he just need to fucking go right through the ringer? No, the thing is that he's like, you're 39, so. A year and a half in, I've never done any grappling. If you're really breaking yourself down, you're going to get hurt. Right.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid. You want to break yourself down as much as possible without actually getting hurt. Right. You know what I mean? But as far as just feeling a little sluggish or you're not all there mentally, just keep training. Okay. But if your sluggish thing is a normal thing. That's normal.

As long as you're not feeling fucked up. Like up come on yeah yeah it depends like how like what is your goal that's so thank you yeah that's exactly what i was gonna say it's like i have competed i would like to compete again but like i am i'm never gonna be more than a casual i'm i'm not gonna like if i compete again there's a chance that that's my last time I compete. Like, I don't know if I'm going to take that any further than that. Like, I just I love it. I want to get better at it. But, you know, like right now, like my focus has been putting together this podcast course.

I have barely been touching the mats like once a week right now because that's not my top priority. So I do want to get better. I want to, you know, rank up. barely been touching the mats like once a week right now because that's not my top priority. So I do want to get better. I want to, you know, rank up. I want to get, you know, higher belts, but it's not something that I would put in front of like putting food on the table, right? Because it's not, it's just a money hole for me. I would say try to get three times a weekend. Try to get three times a week, whether that means that you have to do the 6am class so that you can get done and get to work. Try to just do three times a week whether that means that you have to do the 6 a.m class so that you can get done and get to work try to just do three times a week consistently yeah that's what it was when i when i was at my best it was uh yeah the 5 30 a.m open mat 6 30 a.m class and i would do that three times a week and that was when i was best on the mats

but again like a year into it it's like damn i can feel myself i'm getting weaker like i'm not as strong as i was my body's way less resilient like i seem to be getting like little tweaks here and there way more often on and off the mat so i just want to be able to like balance the two better try to get in some workouts with insima too because he's he's not i know for sure he's not just doing like meathead workouts he's doing workouts that are actually going to be good for an athlete and strengthening yourself and injury prevention and stuff. And he's, as far as like big guys, he's one of the fastest, like springiest athletic big dudes that I've ever trained with. So if you're going to do some strength and conditioning, try to, you know, try to get on his program. Got it. Now, actually four more

questions came in real quick and these these will be easy for you to answer so the first question from uh carter fart one what does mason think about people pulling guards and grappling fights yeah that's fine that's fine it's jiu-jitsu it's not we're not doing wrestling we're not doing judo so i think i do think people that uh pull guard get way too much slack but with that being said it can be boring if a guy sits on his butt and if he's not able to do anything offensive to the top player and the top player's also not able to get into any type of advantageous passing positions. It makes for boring matches at times.

But, I mean, it's jiu-jitsu. It's not wrestling. We're not just going to wrestle each other in every single match. So you have to, man, if you don't like when people pull guard, it just means your passing sucks. Get better at passing. All right. Next question. And there's three more.

But you actually answered this, but there's a next part to it. Will you please have a match with Nikki Rod or Marigali? So Nikki Rod's coming up, but would you ever do a match with Marigali? Absolutely, yeah. I actually I can show you some messages. I've messaged promoters asking for matches with Marigali in the past. Yeah. And you know, at this time

at this time, it just we had our heart set on Nikki Rod. We did a call out of Nikki Rod. We were preparing for Nikki Rod mentally. So at this time, we felt like Nicky Rod was the better match. But definitely eventually want to make that happen with Merigoli. I'm going to be in his division at ADCC this year. Oh, shit.

Yeah. Okay. From Amons123, how do you stay free from injury in jujitsu? You don't. You do not. You do not. Go collect some stamps or something. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, how to stay as free as possible from injury is make sure your diet's on point. Make sure you're eating the right type of foods, but also make sure you're eating enough. If you're not eating enough, your body's going to be like weaker. Right. So make sure you're getting the protein, the carbs, make sure you're eating enough. If you're not eating enough, your body's going to be like weaker, right?

So make sure you're getting the protein, the carbs, make sure you're getting everything in. Warm up. Don't skip warmups. Don't skip the warmups. Don't get to the gym and then put your gi on and then start training. That's when I've had the dumbest injuries, by the way. Yeah.

The dumbest shit when I don't warm up. Yeah. So warm up. Make sure your nutrition is on point. Make sure your supplementation is on point. Take some creatine, do your research, find out what supplements are best for you. Um, and then that's pretty much it. I mean, if you're a casual, you can take a day or two off, you know, if you want to get as good as you possibly can, I wouldn't suggest taking a week off, you know, uh, or two off. You know, if you want to get as good as you possibly can, I wouldn't suggest taking a week off, you know, uh, too often, but you know, if you're burnt out,

take a day off, take two days off, let your body recover, go outside, get some sunlight, do a cold plunge, you know, go to the beach, jump in the water, live life, enjoy your life a little bit. Um, but yeah, it's impossible to stay 100% injury free. Yeah. And then this is the last one from this. Are you doing ADCC this year? Yeah, I'm doing ADCC minus 99. I got the invite. I accepted it.

So yeah, the last two ADCCs I did at minus 88. And I can make minus 88. Like I can make it. No problem. But it takes 12 weeks of dieting. It's not fun. Do you feel strong? I actually do feel strong.

I feel fast. My conditioning feels great. My jiu-jitsu feels great. But the last two times I did it, I lost. So now I'm like, fuck it. If I'm going to lose, I might as well just not diet, man. Yeah. You know, I was really on the fence about even doing this ADCC. Like we talked about before, you know, I was really on the fence about even doing this ADCC like we talked about before. You know, I thought the last ADCC would be my last competition.

I was planning on winning, getting that gold medal, opening a gym, riding off into the sunset. I lost, so I have to keep competing, you know. But, you know, I've been still really successful in the past year in competition. So I feel like I'm in my prime right now. I'm 31. So to not and to get invited and to not compete, I think would be a huge mistake. So I'm definitely going to do at least one more. I'm doing it at minus 99.

I like all the matchups at minus 99. And we'll see what happens from there. You know, if I win, which I plan on doing, if I win, then maybe I'll come back to defend, you know, the gold medal in the next one. But, uh, yeah, we'll see what happens. All right. Third time's a charm. Where can people find you? You find me on Instagram, uh, Mason Fowler, BJJ. Um, find me on YouTube, Mason Fowler BJJ. Find me on YouTube, Mason Fowler BJJ, TikTok. Yeah, that's about it. Strength is never a weakness.

Weakness is never strength. Catch you guys later. Bye.