Moonshots with Peter Diamandis - AI Panel Discussion Pt. 2 w/ Emad Mostaque, Salim Ismail, Benjamin Plummer, Francis Pedraza, Steve Brown, Guillaume Verdon, David Blundin, Ramin Hasani, and Alexander Amini | EP #97

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

In this episode, recorded during the 2024 Abundance360 Summit, A360 AI faculty discuss the future of AI, when it will take over Hollywood, and the job market.  Present in this panel: Emad Mostaque (Founder, Stability AI), Salim Ismail (OpenExO), Benjamin Plummer (CEO, Invisible), Francis Pedraza (Founder, Invisible), Steve Brown (Chief AI Officer, PHD Ventures), Guillaume Verdon (Founder, Extropic), David Blundin (Founder, DataStage), Ramin Hasani (Founder, Liquid AI), and Alexander Amini (Founder, Liquid AI) Learn more about Abundance360: https://www.abundance360.com/summit  ____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are,  please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:  Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/   AI-powered precision diagnosis you NEED for a healthy gut: https://www.viome.com/peter  _ProLon is the first Nutri-technology company to apply breakthrough science to optimize human longevity and optimize longevity and support a healthy life. Get started today with 15% off here: https://prolonlife.com/MOONSHOT ____________ I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now:  Tech Blog Get my new Longevity Practices book for free: https://www.diamandis.com/longevity My new book with Salim Ismail, Exponential Organizations 2.0: The New Playbook for 10x Growth and Impact, is now available on Amazon: https://bit.ly/3P3j54J _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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showing that the next generation at stable diffusion three runs faster on Intel chips than Nvidia chips. All those companies will succeed in parallel. There's no worry about competition whatsoever. It's leveraging talent, not replacing talent. It's unleashing the creativity of talent instead of bogging down in it. So I mean, nobody here feels like we're putting ourselves out of business. We're like, we feel like we've got more things we want to do than ever. Could one person by themselves with no in-house team, no W2 employees build a company worth a billion dollars.

I don't know what you think. I think it's possible. As we automate more and more of our economy, we're just gonna aim higher and go for bigger wins. Every room we walk into, there's all of these adjacencies we never knew existed before. And these are opening up before us.

They're literally materializing. Please, sir. Dinesh from London. I wanted to find out from Invincible. I mean, perhaps you already know this, and I'm sure you do, but it's a marketing opportunity. All of us here are CEOs of our companies or have enough money to start companies.

If you could make us as individuals AI savvy in whatever we do, we can then transpose that information onto our boards, onto our companies, and that might give you a lot more business. That's a great observation. What's the question? The question is, can you sort me out my life?

Yes, Dinesh, I love that. So that I can use AI more efficiently in my, you know... That's why we're here. That's why we're here. There's an app for that. Yeah, please come meet with my, meet with our team. We're here at the booth and we'd love to get to know you and build a relationship. We're a very relationship driven business.

And this is, you know, it's not just a today thing. In the last 12 months, think about how much innovation has happened. In the next 12 months there will be more innovation. So just like Lord of the Rings, there's not one ring to rule them all in AI. There's going to be so many different apps and models. The question is, how do you integrate them into your business? And that's an evolutionary thing. Okay. I'm going to default to like 20 second answers. Let's go to Golcom on Zoom. Last year, you were talking about building up country models. Have you proceeded with that? And if so, what's the result? Yeah, so we've done Japan, about to release Spain,

and about a dozen others. And the plan is to go to probably 100 cultural models by this time next year. And then open data sets for all of them. So you can take them and remix them with all the other models that everyone else has as well. Thank you. Going to Robert on mic one. Yeah, hey, this is for Imad. Just following up on what you were showing yesterday, the 100 cats per second and how good we're getting at that, how long, just super simple, how long until I can take my favorite book or novel and just

feed it into the computer and have the computer make it a movie or a Netflix series? It's a very big computer in the cloud, about two years. Two years until we can do that. Yeah. It won't be real time, but yeah, I'd say two years because movies are made up of lots of short scenes and we can already do short scenes and now it's all about how we bring it together. Does anybody on here disagree with that? How long till a good movie?

Well, Netflix is mostly crap, right? Just making a bunch of clips is not what a movie is. I would argue, I have a counterpoint, which is the editing of stitching scenes together is a very deep art form. I would guess that that's the longest to be automated. Did you agree? Yeah, that's why it's two years, not one year.

All right, let's go to Yash and Mike too here. I have a question for Dave. Dave, I come from India. I'm a venture and growth equity investor there. What an India is relatively a nascent landscape for AI. What would be the first three investments that you would make, whether it will be infrastructure-oriented, if you have to start investing with harnessing artificial intelligence over there? That's really, really easy, actually,

because the first question we had is the answer to your question. If I were in India, where millions of people have taken Alexander Amini's class, who was on stage yesterday, huge educated AI-ready population. Meanwhile, companies like you just heard are saying, how on earth am I going to act on anything I'm seeing today? So if you connect those two dots, what they should be doing is investing at the seed stage in groups of 10 or 20 people that you assemble. And then you say, okay, but then you be the first customer for what we just created

and guarantee me my first 5 million of revenue. Your company will skyrocket in value. You can do it 30 times in a row. They'll actually get the delivery they need on everything you're hearing in this session. And will that be different from invisible with the landscape? And does it need to be customized for India? Or can something like an invisible only come and do this? Will it end up competing in something like an invisible? It doesn't matter. It's almost exactly what happened when the relational database was first invented and every

company needed one all of a sudden. And there must have been 50 or 80 successful companies that were delivering in all the different vertical sectors and it wasn't until five or ten years later that they all aggregated and Oracle bought a bunch of them. But you don't have to worry about that for years. What matters right now is that there's never been a technological shift this quickly and this globally impactful before. And the analogy to the relational database is a joke. It's like this is hundreds or thousands or millions of times bigger than that,

and it's much more urgent. So all those companies will succeed in parallel there's no worry about competition whatsoever over the years i've experimented with many intermittent fasting programs the truth is i've given up on intermittent fasting as i've seen no real benefit when it comes to longevity but this changed when i discovered something called Prolon's 5-Day Fasting Nutrition Program. It harnesses the process of autophagy. This is a cellular recycling process that revitalizes your body at a molecular level. And just one cycle of the 5-Day Prolon Fasting Nutrition Program can support healthy aging, fat focused weight loss, improved energy levels and more.

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awe like me using them in spatial immersive environments how to do that without increasing the noise factor and all of the static I mean one of I think the challenges we're going to face is just like with our use of GPS, if we're not careful, it can erode our ability to navigate. Like me. I can't figure out which ways. I know up and down, that's about it. Yeah.

And so interestingly enough, actually, this is going to be a little controversial perhaps, but I've started to be able to tell who uses ChatGPT for their thinking. For their what? For their thinking. The people that use ChatGPT all the time, they actually start to think in a sort of, they sort of feel a little bit like a Gaussian blur of the internet. And so I think as we think about what it is to create well-being,

we need to be thinking about how do you create a developmentally aware set of AIs so that you know at any time where a human being is and what is the next possible place they can move such that it removes the dependence on the sort of featurely authority AI versus like creating greater dependency. Amazing. Let's go to Charles on Zoom. Charles. Hi, thank you all. Saleem, I'm gonna start with you. Okay, I'm trying to build an exponential organization. And so one of the first requirements is staff on demand. So why

don't you debate Invisible about how you would use them and even bring in, say, a lot of marketing campaign, and then bring in Steve Brown and Brittany as to how you would do the investor relations for this business. Thank you. I think you just answered the question. So the obvious thing to do is in an EXO, you want a small resource footprint as possible and partner wherever possible. So a partnership with something like Invisible is fantastic because you just go help me sort that out what i love about the model is they're helping

you build that muscle and over time it's going to be really important to have as much musculature inside your organization to be applying some of these tools then you can maximize leverage and impact from that and if you want br want Brittany to do your earnings calls, she's available. Let's go to David here on mic three, David. I'm curious about using AI to make myself the best person I can be and just open to the forum. Are there any recommendations you have?

Should I be uploading all the emails I've ever written, all of my journal entries? Is there a way to get myself into AI so that I can learn more about myself? Is that a worthwhile effort? And should I be documenting my thoughts every day, my inner psychosis? Yeah, just curious about that. The AIs are doing it already, so don't worry about that. Just start talking to it.

Yeah, I think a lot of people that are users and creators on top of the AI stack are worried that they're not deep in the foundation of it. But when Snapchat went public, $20 billion valuation, it was 5,400 lines of code. It was this tiny, tiny little thing on top of all the tech. What you're seeing in media right now is, you know, the question earlier was how long till we can create a feature-length movie just by voice prompting it, but that's not the target. In media what's taking over is short form, TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, short form. So with AI on top of this, there's going to be media that's billions and billions of dollars

that's long before a feature-length movie. That's the wrong target. So I think anyone who jumps in is going to find that you can build micro communities around any topic. If you have anything interesting to say in the world at all, you'll find followers. And you can use the AI right now as a force multiplier for yourself no matter what your mission is. So whatever you're good at and whoever is interested in what you're doing, you can immediately act on it. You don't have to worry about being where Ramin is. Very, very few people are where he is in this world. Many more people

are on top of it. There's a huge opportunity there. Pete, mic two. Go to Pete. I would like to know if you have an idea about how it will have an impact on IT infrastructures. Mostly data centers. Where will you put those infrastructures? Will they be larger or smaller? I don't know. I mean, the trend is to go larger data centers, bigger clusters, GPU dominant, right? At the moment GPUs are the best type of computer to run these AI algorithms and higher bandwidth,

right? Because you're trying to achieve data parallelism, do some model parallelism even, because the models are too big to fit in any one memory. And so faster interconnect, bigger clusters, more power. That's the trend so far, right? Unless something comes and disrupts that. Yeah, most data centers historically have tried to be close to the customer and the user to keep the latency down.

You don't have to worry about that. You want to be close to the power supply. So that's a big difference. Fascinating. There's also a whole bunch of models where you can use crypto tokens for AI cloud compute. Those are getting very interesting, so check those out. Okay, let's go to Blake on Zoom.

Hi, everyone. Thank you guys for sharing with us today. It's been amazing. I'm just wondering, as we get better at the automation and consolidation of all of these tasks, what is the end goal that we see as far as the number of companies that we are all going to have the opportunity to build and then the lack of need for people within those companies?

It seems like markets could get oversaturated. So I think for the Invisible team specifically, where do you guys see the corporate space in five years? Us all running companies that we don't necessarily have to put time in to run. I love this question. Sam Altman talked about the one person unicorn. Could one person by themselves with no in-house team, no W2 employees, build a company worth a billion dollars? I don't know what you think. I think it's possible. As a matter of fact, it's not a new idea. About a hundred years ago, there was an economist named Ronald Coase,

and he realized that it was possible in the future to have more and more of your team be outsourced. Do you know that only five to 10% of knowledge work is outsourced today? By 2050, do we think it's going to be a higher number, maybe 25 to 50%? Maybe that one person unicorn has 99% of their team on invisible. And that's exactly the future that we're powering. Now I don't believe that we're going to get to 90% unemployment. I think that if the nature of the firm shrinks because of technological capabilities, there's just going to be a wave of entrepreneurship. All this talent gets liberated to do new stuff. There will still be things that humans can do that computers still can't.

So thank you for that question. Just to add to that, Peter and I did a whole podcast about we needed three people, a three-person team could create a billion-dollar company, a vision guy, a product guy, and a builder. And Sam, of course, went to one. But think about the idea if you go down where Steve is going, where you essentially get to a fully autonomous AI building its own companies, right? Now things get really weird. And I think navigating this is going to be pretty much dominating the business landscape for the next decade or so. Which actually brings up the next really important point, which is right now there is an incredible amount of money going into figuring out how do you make AIs aligned? How do we make sure they do what we say they're going to do? But if an AI is wielded by a

corporation that isn't aligned with all of our best interests, it's not really an aligned AI. So I think a major opportunity for everyone here to start thinking about is what are evals, the thing that evaluates an AI, what are evals for corporations? Because when the corporations punch, they can punch a hole in the Amazon if they're just out there operating autonomously. That's incredibly dangerous. Nice. I would say, you know, we've had ways to align corporations for many decades now.

I think that applies to having AI workers within your workforce. To me, the future is not necessarily unemployment. It's actually corporations maybe being 80% AIs, 20% humans, but we have way more corporations and we're far more ambitious with what we do, right? Ultimately, if you think, you know, like a physicist, the system will grow and try to unlock more for energy. So does that mean colonizing Mars?

Because there's a lot of opportunity out there? Potentially, right? There's a lot of upside but it's behind a lot of challenges and so I think as we automate more and more of our economy we're just gonna aim higher and go for bigger wins. Yeah, Gil brings in a really important it's the abundance mindset, right? It really is, we are there every room we walk into there's all of these adjacencies we never knew existed before and these are opening up before us they're they're literally materializing right the adjacencies everybody want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you

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It's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. My question and comment has to do with ownership and power, right? So there's five or six companies that right now are setting themselves up to pretty much own everything. And what I don't hear about are decentralized systems, decentralized LLMs that could work like Bitcoin or Ethereum can work where no one actually owns the network, but there's incentives to contribute, use, provide CPU, GPU power, etc., etc. And it seems to me that this would be society's golden opportunity to have no one necessarily own these networks, just like in the future, I think no one is going to own

decentralized finance. And I'm curious if you have an opinion as to why we're not hearing more about this. I just read about Project Morpheus, which I think looks really interesting, but I'm not really reading a lot about any kind of big movement in this direction. Go to huggingface.co and look at the number of models that are there that are open source and it's something like 600,000 now and that means there's probably like a couple million entrepreneurs at least because there's you know I don't think everybody has their own model but there's a lot of entrepreneurs doing a lot of things decentralized and that are super empowered now. So you hear about the big tech thing

and you look at their demos and half the time they're faked or they don't work, but all the cool stuff is being done by these small startups and super powered entrepreneurs. So I think the actual opposite is happening. A year ago, I was exactly where you were. I thought, oh my gosh, it's a winner take all thing. You know, Microsoft OpenAI is gonna take everything. Now it's thought, oh my gosh, it's a winner take all thing. You know, Microsoft OpenAI is going to take everything. Now it's like, oh my gosh, that's a commodity.

It's thousands and thousands of flowers blooming right now. Yeah. When I set up stability, originally it was meant to be a DAO of DAOs and decentralized. Then I realized there wasn't much intelligence in Web3, so I had to build it first. So yesterday I just joined the board of render, for example, and we're going to use hundreds of thousands of GPUs to create synthetic data sets for media. And there's more coming along those lines. Like we've had 330 million downloads of our models on Hugging Face already.

And the next step is how do we decentralize it, give ownership to everyone? So with the national example, for example, we're talking to governments. Can we give ownership of the governance of the data to every citizen in every country? Because I think this will actually become less about the models as a basic base models, they're like graduates, and more about who controls and owns the data. And those data sets are on Hugging Face too. And I really just want to applaud, Imad, what you're building and doing. It's a beautiful vision.

Let's go to Zoom. Andre, you? Peter, one quick thing. Oh. what you're building and doing. It's a beautiful vision. Let's go to Zoom. Andre Yu. Peter, one quick thing. Oh. Just go check out a token called HyperCycle, which is trying to do this, democratizing AI compute in the cloud, and people can build their own models

and just bring in compute as they need it. So there's some amazing stuff happening in the decentralized Web3 world. Onto Zoom. Andre Yu. Thank Andre, you. Thank you, Peter. This could go a bit wrong. Both my kids are still awake and my wife is on business trip.

Love it. They paid attention. For sure, their question is how can they buy the Google Glasses? But let me ask my question that I asked you yesterday, Peter. We've seen NVIDIA share go from, I don't know, increase to $885, right? Raise more than $600 as they increase their power on AI computation. My question is a bit twofold. One is, did you guys see this coming, that a company could grow so much within a year? And the second one is, do you guys see any other company following that could,

you know, bring good tech to help on this? That's a great question. I'm sure your kids asked you that question too. So I saw Gil, you're nodding. Yeah. I mean, NVIDIA was, you know, what was it a year, year and a half ago, the price was irrational. Everybody who's a practitioner knew that NVIDIA is so dominant in the AI space because of their compilers and their hardware. What doesn't make sense to me at this point is why AMD is not really on their tails. And it has to do with software, with community, with open source. A friend of mine, George Hotz, is working on the compiler for AMD. So, you know,

if something happens there and, you know, he has a lot of influence, that could catch up. So that's kind of like public companies. Obviously, in the private space, we're trying to be the next NVIDIA, obviously, for all sorts of reasons, with a fundamental paradigm shift, and that's the only way to, as a very small player, disrupt an incumbent. But overall, I would keep my eye in the public markets on AMD first, and then potentially Intel as kind of next up. Eventually, the advantage has to be eroded to some extent. I'm curious, who's thinking about Intel right now and its ability?

Yeah, so we're building a supercomputer with Intel and we just released some results showing that the next generation at stable diffusion 3 runs faster on Intel chips than Nvidia chips. All right. And the Gaudi 3 chip is the same as the B100 in speed pretty much on a price performance basis. But everything will commoditize there and it's about the entire sector going huge. This is one of the biggest infrastructure investments ever.

So you can play the beta to the sector from AMD to Intel and Nvidia probably still isn't done. It's still only 34 times earnings. Stacey, are you in the room here? Stacey is one of our patrons who's a senior VP at Intel. Let's go to Pete. Hi guys, I'm the data center guy. So Gil, I need to find the venture

capital firm that I could put money into because I want to invest in it today, not tomorrow. I want to help you get there. But my question is, besides the data center guy, I got a killer software app that I need help growing. And so for the invisible guys, do you do, I want to get it right from the beginning. So will you help a startup? Yeah, we work across the complete spectrum. We work with companies with five, 10 people just getting started all the way up to the biggest companies in the world. And so we have customers spending $1,000, $2,000 a month. We have customers spending millions of dollars a month. And so everywhere across that spectrum, we'd love to bring you on that journey. Helping companies grow and create amazing value is what really drives us. Did you know that your microbiome

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It's one of my personal top areas of focus. Best of all, Viome is affordable, which is part of my mission to democratize healthcare. If you want to join me on this journey and get 20% off the full body intelligence test, go to Viome.com slash Peter. When it comes to your health, knowledge is power. Again, that's Viome.com slash Peter. power. Again, that's viome.com slash Peter. Lars. Hey, I'm Lars from Stockholm originally. I live in San Diego now where I met Francis, what was it, 12 years ago something. And we were there, we talked about the role, the Coase theorem, then why corporations exist. One of the reasons is to internalize all the uncertainties and organize a labor force. And I'm so impressed by both what you have created, you and the whole Invisible team, but also Peter, this is awesome, what a great conference, it's totally

stimulating and so much talent not only on the stage but also in the whole room here. There's lots of entrepreneurs and builders who are creating new businesses every day and it's very much about talent. We have talent here on the stage. And I'm in the talent industry myself, holistically, building recruiting companies, matching companies and similar things. I think at the core, everything will also be about talent here. I mean we have had this wonderful debate about the future of AI and you know long term is it a threat or is it an abundance? Is it a blessing? I think everybody can obviously agree though that it's going to replace talent people out there and of course

as an as a paradox that some of the best new non-biological talent in the world is created by great biological talent as yourselves, gentlemen, or the women, by the way, on the stage right now. Yeah, where are the women on the stage? Where'd Caroline go? Yeah. But on that point, you are a wonderful individual, biological talent, and we're creating solutions now to replace biological talent out there in order to reallocate resources, of course, for the future so people can do even more what they want. And I do think that's a blessing.

But in the meantime, for the next five, 10 years, we know things are going to go fast. What do you think about the future of talent, the of the workforce because that is I think something we can all agree to that there needs to be some kind of fixes there because it's gonna go fast and you don't want to have a major social unrest in the world when those hundred billion people are replacing the biological talent and what's the future of education to our kids gonna train themselves into the future let me address the future of work side first What are our kids going to train themselves into? There's like 50 pages in there. Let me address the future of work side first, because we've done a lot of thinking about this,

and we've watched this over decades now. It turns out when you look through human history, when there's a major automation of something, the instant reaction is, oh my God, we're going to have millions of people out of work. What actually happens is we create a ton more work that needs to get done. I'll give you a specific example. In the 1970s, when we created bank ATM machines, there was all sorts of hand-waving going, oh my God, millions of bank tellers, what will we do with them, et cetera. What actually happened was the cost of running a branch dropped by 10 times. The banks created 10 times more branches and the number of bank tell dollars has not changed at all. Same thing with truck drivers.

As we automate truck drivers, go to any trucking company and they're like, we can't wait for autonomous trucks because we would hire 1,000 truck drivers if we could find them right now. We have an underemployment problem today, not an unemployment problem. Can you say what happens to the talent though? Well, as you automate, what we've seen in the study- Taryn Southern should be up here to answer this question. Where are you?

Are you out there? Who? Taryn Southern. She said the most beautiful thing is to say, she described how this has affected her. She used to be 90% process, 10% creativity. Now it's 90% creativity, 10% process. So it's leveraging talent, not replacing talent. It's unleashing the creativity of talent instead of bogging down in it. So I mean nobody here feels like we're

putting ourselves out of business. We're like, we feel like we've got more things we want to do than ever. We'll just write 10 times more code, 100 times more code. Don. Yeah guys, I'm trying to revive Europe by creating, well, 21,000 people who are those entrepreneurs that can be a unicorn one-man show. And I get asked all the time, okay, where do I start?

Because so much stuff is happening, and I was wondering now that I have you on stage, what is the one thing of the last 12 months that you handed over to an AI or the one task that would say for anyone becoming this one person unicorn where do you start what's the first skill that they should acquire after they got their mindset right well the first thing you need is an MTP or your massive transformative what fundamental problem do you want to solve and then everything cascades from there okay so if you go read the EXO book that Peter and I wrote, there's a whole chapter on how you build one with steps

in it. So it's pretty clear. And we now have a community of 35,000 people that are just building EXOs nonstop. That's what I meant, if they have the mindset right, so assume they have the MTP, what's the first skill that they then acquire? So it's not about skills. Today it's just about getting out there and doing, right? So step one is your MTP. Let's say it's curing cancer. Okay. Step two is go find communities that are doing that or join communities or create communities that are interested in that. Step three, you create your founding team of one people, three people, whatever the small number is.

Step four, you find a breakthrough product or idea that will deliver at least 10x better than the marketplace in one specific domain around that. If you're 10% better, the market will ignore you. If you're 10 times better, you can't be ignored. And then you follow lean startup thinking, get to an MVP and continue cascading down the line. And we've watched this process be copied and used now for 10 years with staggering results. So just go do it. It's about execution, not skill acquisition. Please. I have a very simple question.

Which page are we in the copyright? Books, papers? What do you think? This is exactly what happened when Google was growing like crazy. It wasn't clear at all that scraping the internet and indexing it was legal under copyright law. And Google grew through it and then said, hey, just put a tag on your website if you don't want us to scrape it.

But everybody didn't put the tag on because everybody wants to be searchable on Google. This is growing so quickly that the same thing will happen. People are going to use the AI. There's billions of dollars of revenue that's going to flow. People like Reddit are saying, hey, you can't use our content without paying us a fee. That'll blow over in a minute because, you know, at the end of the day, there's so much capital flowing in. Nobody's going to want to be left out of it. So it's literally not going to be an issue.

If you don't contribute your content, there's equal content out there anyway. So it's just, it's literally not gonna be a problem. It is a threat to everyone who has copyright, but there's no stopping it at this point. Thanks. Where is the best way to find world-class capital partners if you're an AI startup? Oh, it is so easy right now.

If you go to any of the Venture Studio models, any of the demo days, and work backward from who's attending the demo days, those are your targets. Or if you get a PitchBook account, I don't know if you use PitchBook, it's a little pricey, shows you every deal that's happening in the country. And you can work backward. If you're looking for that idea where three, four, five people are worth a billion, you can easily sort, find it, and look at what they did. And that answers the prior question about Europe as well.