Moonshots with Peter Diamandis - Latest AI News, Apple Vision Pro & Bitcoin Surge w/ Salim Ismail | EP #87

Episode Date: February 22, 2024

In this episode, Peter and Salim dive into Sam Altman’s $7 trillion dollar hunt, Apple Vision Pro, Google’s Gemini, Bitcoin and more.  01:46 | Apple's Vision for Mobile Computing 16:44 | Reshaping Business Through AI and Chips 48:45 | The Power of Bitcoin Explained Salim Ismail is a serial entrepreneur and technology strategist well known for his expertise in Exponential organizations. He is the Founding Executive Director of Singularity University and the founder and chairman of ExO Works and OpenExO.  Join Salim’s OpenExO Community ____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are,  please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:  Get started with Fountain Life and become the CEO of your health: https://fountainlife.com/peter/ Use my code PETER25 for 25% off your first month's supply of Seed's DS-01® Daily Synbiotic: seed.com/moonshots  _____________ Get my new Longevity Practices 2024 book: https://bit.ly/48Hv1j6  Join my executive summit, Abundance360: https://www.abundance360.com/summit  I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now:  Tech Blog _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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better than you anyway. We're at a point now where the amount of compute coming from silicon is exceeding 8 billion minds worth of compute. A $7 trillion raise? That's awesome. AIs can create, spin up a billion, 100 billion simulations and therefore know a lot more about where these different roads are going to go and therefore by virtue of that level of multi-universe simulations could generate tremendous wisdom. We won't be able to navigate a

volatile world in the future without that lens of depth and operating in real time to help make sense of the world. Hi everybody, Peter DiAandis here. Welcome to Moonshots. I'm here with the most amazing exponential thinker I know of, Salim Ismail, the CEO of OpenEXO, my partner at Singularity University. And Salim, good to see you, buddy. Let's talk about what in the world just happened in tech this week. I call it WTF in tech. In particular, I'd love to talk about things like the Apple Vision Pro, AI,

you know, raising $7 trillion. And, you know, what's going on in the world of Bitcoin, which is more than just $7 trillion. You're well? All good. I mean, those are each major Gutenberg moments that are each of them will change the world fundamentally. So yeah, they are for sure. So just kicking this off, you know, we are in a period of Apple vision pros take over. I mean, it's taking over on the pages of X and all of my friends are rushing to go and get theirs. You know, I love this story for me broke when I saw this image. And I love this, this phrase, it says, we're not going to need to worry about overpopulation after all. So beautiful.

These two guys are sitting there at a cafe, you know, wearing their Apple Vision Pro. Have I ever told you the joke? What does an engineer use for birth control? No. His or her personality. So I think, I think that's, that's says it all in this. Let me, as a former engineer who struggled to meet women that protect and totally attest to that from personal experience.

But, you know, listen, everybody walking around with these and, you know, I've been seeing them on X. I haven't seen them out in the wild yet in terms of people walking around, but I'm sure we will. Let me share this image. This is an image of Apple's first-generation products from the MacBook to the iPad to the iPhone. And there's the Vision Pro. It says a lot, doesn't it? You know, their ability to deliver breakthrough new platforms, computing platforms that are all-in-one, has never been beaten, challenged, or even come close to. It's pretty staggering.

Yeah, I think there's no question that when they make a decision to release a product, it's going to be awesome. And the Vision Pro is. But I think what's most awesome about the Vision Pro, we'll talk about it, is its integration into the Apple ecosystem, right? If it was a standalone product by itself, it wouldn't have half the awesomeness. But the fact integrates, you know, you can see your Apple Watch as a virtual icon, you can integrate with your Mac with your all of the products out there is is pretty extraordinary. You know, for me, it's the App Store. You know, the fact that I can just pull up any app and run it and soon they'll have you know for me it's the app store um you know the the fact that i can just pull up any app and run it and soon they'll have you know they have already what 700 apps that are native

to the vision pro right so the richness and depth of those is going to be kind of incredible i think well the the thing that they did which was right is you know i I've got around here some, Oh, there it is. I've got my Oculus quest too. It's like unboxed. I mean, it's unopened. It's sitting on the shelf. Cause I had another one I used, and I have my Oculus one sitting someplace. And that's the problem with a lot of the, the XR headsets. You get it. It's really cool for a little bit. And then you don't use it again. And because the apps just are not engaging enough and it's not useful enough.

And I think what really was a super smart decision by Apple here was saying, we're going to make this independent of apps. We're going to allow you to read your book, do your work, watch movies. And so the whole universe of content that you would use on your MacBook is the same universe of content that you'd use on your Vision Pro. And that was brilliant. I think there's some more extensions that are very powerful. For example, one of the use cases I found that I heard about was if you're sitting on a plane and you want to watch a movie, you are essentially watching it on a big screen, right? And that augmentation, I think, is unbelievable and very, very powerful.

But I continue to think the real application here is specialist B2B applications like surgery or training somebody, or make sure you install the bolts on the on the Boeing plane before you let get it out there and doing visual analyses of things. I think that's where the real power will come in. It will, but it's also going to come in from your ability to do mobile computing while you cross the street here. And here's a video of that Beth Jesus launched here. And here we see a guy in his vision pro just crossing the street and typing away. I mean, I do think that this is sort of an evolutionary Darwin moment, you know, the Darwin Awards, my favorites, and we'll see how many people get killed with wearing their Vision Pro and doing stupid things?

If not doing stupid things, they're just going to get punched. Just from the social signaling that comes with this just has so many connotations that will attract negative attention. But I think it's just dangerous to be doing some of this. So, you know, I be doing some of this. So, you know, I'm going to check this. I'm going to Google this versus using my Gemini. But how many people die each day while taking a selfie? Or actually each year? It's some astronomical number.

Oh, here it is. So in 2018, a study reported showed that 259 selfie deaths occurred. I don't know if you've ever heard that. Yes, I have heard that. You're on the ledge, you're backing up, or you're back up in the traffic. So we're going to have not just selfie deaths, we're going to have Vision Pro deaths. And of course, here's another great example. I tweeted this, that this was the craziest thing I've seen in years of somebody doing that. I mean, I've driven my Tesla four times up and down the country, and I would have killed for something like this. But it's unbelievably dangerous. And so I don't know how this can't end well. They're going to have to pass. I can't imagine them not passing some regulation saying you can't wear this bad set. Well, I think they have that.

I think it's called you can't text and drive. And I think they're just going to broaden the definition of texting. Yeah, I think they'll have to. Yeah. But that's why God created self-driving cars. Anyway. You know, let's just touch on that for a second. Maybe the biggest delay, most delayed outcome of exponential technologies. I remember 10 years ago,

we thought self-driving cars would be prevalent in a few years. And it's taken way, way longer. You know, even now we're like a few years away. It's just because that adaptive intelligence of driving a car is just really, really hard and perfectly suited to human adaptive intelligence. Whereas a set of sensors with AI, it just makes it's just that much harder to do. Yeah, it is. But I believe the thesis that

if a human can do it with one eye, you know, when I closed, a computer should be able to do it with a single camera, let alone all the cameras. You know, it's interesting. A couple of things happened in the self-driving world that I think are worth noting. The first is that Tesla last year replaced 300,000 lines of C++ code with 3,000 lines coming from a large language model that was trained on all of the data. People don't realize that when you're driving your Tesla and you grab the, it's in self-driving mode and you grab the wheel, all of the imagery before and after you grab the wheel

are sent to Tesla's headquarters to say, OK, why did this person interfere with this perfectly good self-driving car? And that's training their equivalent of their deep neural networks, equivalent to their large language models. The other thing. I'm a huge proponent of self-driving. I mean, human beings are just bad control systems

for two-ton cars going at high speed. Yeah, the idea that you take a 16-year-old testosterone-laden kid and give him a 2,000 or 5,000-pound car is crazy. It is nuts. I remember the statistic when BlackBerrys were around. There was about a three-day outage in BlackBerry messages around the world. Nobody could send BlackBerry messages for about three days. And the accident rate in Abu Dhabi during those three days dropped 40%. Wow. That was 10 years ago. Forget everybody. Anybody you look at in a car is looking at their phone. So there's just no way human beings should be focused on driving when a car can do it much better than you anyway. So the faster we make that transition, all the better for me.

Notwithstanding, this Waymo car got attacked by a crowd last night in San Francisco. That was just crazy. I missed that. What happened? A Waymo car in Chinatown, San Francisco, was stopped and a whole crowd surrounded it and just vandalized the car and put it on fire. Whoa. Yeah. That the car couldn't drive anywhere because it was surrounded by human beings. Oh my God. You know, this year at the Abundance Summit, I'm going to have Austin Russell there, who's the CEO of Luminar. I don't know if you know, Luminar is the largest provider of

LiDAR, laser imaging radar. And I was at a party for a friend, Adeo Ressi, I don't know, six months ago. Elon was there and Austin was there. And Austin always wanted to meet Elon. So I went and introduced them. And I said, Elon, here's Austin. He's providing the LIDAR for all of the car manufacturers out there, and he thinks that Tesla should have LIDAR. And Elon's like, no, absolutely no LIDAR. It is cameras only. If humans, you know, this is his first principle thinking. If humans can drive with just their eyes,

cars should be able to drive just with cameras. And so Austin made his best argument, but Elon's sticking with cameras. I would stick with the LiDAR idea just because LiDAR can see so much further. Yeah, and in different conditions. Yeah. Yeah, and in different conditions. Yeah. So, you know, I think all of this is AI, and let's talk about what's new in the AI world here.

And by the way, it's going to be the intersection, right? We talk about convergences all the time. The most interesting places on the planet are the convergences of exponentials. I mean, you talk about that in exponential organizations with me and your OpenEXO. Take a second and tell folks what the OpenEXO platform is, by the way. So what we have done is created a global

platform for anybody interested in the transformation that we're going through with technology and action, enabling that and making it real. So we have 35,000 entrepreneurs, technologists, researchers, scientists, innovators, change agents, all on a global platform. We have a subgroup for generative AI that's about 500 people. So every week they get together and talk about what's going on. And we've created basically a hive mind for transformation. So anybody that wants to transform their company, their country, their city, whatever,

it's a passport to all of the tool sets around that. So that's what OpenEXO.com is. Yeah. And it's a lot of the stuff that we wrote about in Exponential Organizations 2.0 that came out are what that community practices, preaches, works on together. And I think it's the convergence, right? We're going to see the convergence of AI and Vision Pro. AI, Vision Pro, and then crypto and blockchain, all those things coming together, just reinventing industry after industry. Yeah. You know, going back to the Singularity

University observation of we have a dozen technologies that are all on a doubling pattern, right? Each one is doubling on its own, but where they intersect, you add a whole other multiplier to the equation. And you've mentioned before, you take two or three of them, now the multiplier is off the charts. So the massive transformation that's being delivered is unheard of and unprecedented in human history. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love. Company is called Fountain Life, and it's a company I started years ago with Tony Robbins and a group of very talented physicians. You know, most of us don't actually know what's going on

inside our body. We're all optimists. Until that day when you have a pain in your side, you go to the physician in the emergency room and they say, listen, I'm sorry to tell you this, but you have this stage three or four going on. And, you know, it didn't start that morning. It probably was a problem that's been going on for some time, but because we never look, we don't find out. So what we built at Fountain Life was the world's most advanced diagnostic centers. We have four across the U.S. today, and we're building 20 around the world. These centers give you a full body MRI, a brain, a brain vasculature, an AI-enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque, a DEXA scan, a grail blood cancer test, a full executive blood workup. It's the most advanced workup you'll ever

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backslash Peter. When Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller Life Force, we had 30,000 people reached out to us for Fountain Life memberships. If you go to fountainlife.com backslash Peter, we'll put you to the top of the list. Really, it's something that is, for me, one of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends. It's a chance to really add decades onto our healthy lifespans. Go to fountainlife.com backslash Peter. It's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners. All right, let's go back to our episode. You know, speak about unprecedented in human history is this next article that came out this week. Sam Altman seeks trillions of dollars to reshape business of chips and AI.

And I'm like, you go guy. That's amazing. Like, you go, guy. That's amazing. I mean, honestly, you know, I thought Elon had cojones when he was looking to go to Mars. But a $7 trillion raise? That's awesome. And, you know, if we believe that we're turning the world into information, which we are, and all that information needs to be managed, need the world and information, which we are, and all that information needs to be managed and computation and AI, the ways you manage and harness and make sense of all that tsunami

of data, then this is completely the right thing to do. I mean, when you think about what is $7 trillion mean? I mean, that's like... That's half the GDP of the US. Is that true? Just about, I think. I think GDP of the US. Is that true? Just about, I think. I think GDP of the US is 12 or 13 trillion. It's like the total net value of

Apple and Microsoft and Google all put together. I mean, it's a lot of money. Where do you go to get $7 trillion? Well, you go where people have, you know, in the UAE, they're generating $4 billion of net income a day from oil. So that's a piece of what's happening in Saudi.

So you go where the money is. Yeah, Saudi and the Emirates for sure. And I'm just, I don't know. We talk about moonshots a lot. A $7 trillion ask. I mean, you know, he didn't want to gohots a lot. A $7 trillion ask. I mean, you know, he didn't want to go for a trillion. I mean, I guess if you're going to ask for a large amount of money, you might as well put it all out there. Yeah, I mean, I think the thesis is you would enable many trillions time that, right?

The economic impact could be that big across all sorts of areas. I just don't know. There's some insights there as to where you would apply all that computational power to, but it would make computation, massive computation, reducible down to very, very small devices and enable every little gadget to become intelligent. This trend is very clear that that's happening.

If you think about the amount of compute on the planet, for all of known history, compute was neurons. Compute was the human brain. And I don't have the exact figure. I should have looked it up before this, but we're at a point now where the amount of compute coming from silicon is exceeding 8 billion minds worth of compute. And there'll be a point in the near future where human compute is a fraction of 1% of all the compute on the planet. And that's a fascinating thing to think about. of all the compute on the planet. And that's a fascinating thing to think about.

Yeah, it is. My issue with it is that that compute power is different. It's a different type of compute, right? Because you've got all this sensory stuff that we compute in our bodies every day, that a huge amount of our neuron capability is there, whereas you can use pure compute into all sorts of other areas. Yeah. Well, regardless, this is going to be an interesting one. I haven't honestly heard of a raise that big.

I mean, we're going to see X.AI probably raise a few hundred billion, and we've seen a few of the other AI companies in that category. But have you heard of a trillion dollar raise before? Never. Not even close. Yeah. Fascinating. Good luck, Sam. Amazing. All right. Next one is Google's Gemini Advanced AI is ready to go. So I've been playing with Gemini and hats off to AI, to Google for this. been playing with Gemini and hats off to AI to Google for this. I actually didn't like the name Bard. I do like Gemini better. Oh, interesting. I actually like Bard. Yeah. Why? Great shout out to Shakespeare and the art of composition. Huh? Okay. It just feels dull. Gemini feels,

well, I've got twin boys, so maybe it's influencing my mindset here. But have you played much with Gemini yet? I've played with it a bit. I think there's some areas where it's a little weaker. But I think overall, when I was playing with BARD, now Gemini, I actually preferred it to many of the other tools. I was playing with Bard, now Gemini, I actually preferred it to many of the other tools. So, I mean, the biggest issue is Google is playing an existential game here, right? In terms of how do you maintain its behemoth in search and also put generative AI into the loop here? And how often are you Googling versus using a generative AI tool? How often are you Googling versus using a generative AI tool?

I find those are two very different things. I haven't kind of merged them yet because often when I'm Googling, I'm looking for something specific. And when I'm trying to compose or flesh out some thinking, then I go to generative AI. And so those, I find, are two complementary thought processes. I do find it very powerful to, when I have a general search query, like, find me the best way of doing something or get me the best Korean restaurant within 10 kilometers. Some of those nuances are not easy in typical search, but Gemini does those very well, or ChatGPT does those very well. And of course, what's going to happen here, and it's pretty damn obvious, is everything will transition to a single entry point. And whatever you want, it's going to enter through an AI interface and it will decide whether it uses classical search

or generative AI to give you the answer. And so the question is owning the customer. You know, so Google needs to hold on to that customer because it's in a death race. I happen to believe in Google as the most viable and dominant player, and I think they'll maintain their dominance. I love the team there. I'm biased. I've known them for 20-plus years. But it's a challenge. Well, I think what has to happen is the others, whether it's Microsoft

or Facebook or OpenAI, have to totally change the paradigm, right? So when ChatGPT got integrated into Bing, it didn't dent at all Google's search dominance, like zero. And so I found that really interesting. These habits that we have of looking things in the way we've done it is unbelievably hard. Just going back to my Yahoo days, right? You had the Yahoo mail page. And if you move that send button by just a few pixels one way or the other, the usage dropped off pretty dramatically because people are so used to going to that spot and clicking send. It's incredible how habitual we become with even web pages. Very hard to update and change in that pattern. I think unless we change the paradigm of how we do search, which is what OpenAI and Bing and so on are trying to do, it'll stay Google

dominant for a while. And Google's got to get up. I mean, people don't realize that the technology used by OpenAI, the large language models, were pioneered by Google first. Yeah, the Transformer paper was written by Googlers. Yeah. I mean, Larry and Sergey, when they started Google, they viewed themselves as an AI company. And what people don't realize is I think they also view themselves ultimately as a brain computer interface company. But we'll see where that goes to. You know, think in Google.

Anyway, it's it's you know, we'll talk about BCI in one of our next conversations here. But here's a here's another AI article that came out. This is Nat Friedman, who is the founder or the past CEOs of GitHub. We've talked about GitHub before, how dominant and critical GitHub is. Nat's going to be giving the opening talk this year with me, Fireside, at Abundance 360, contextualizing what in the world just happened in the AI world in the last year and where we're going. But he's had a side project, which I find fascinating. It's the Vesuvius Challenge, a little less than a million bucks. So these large collection of papyrus scrolls were buried at Mount Vesuvius in 79 AD. And here they are,

they're rolled up there. You know, they've gone through hell and back literally, and they're going to crumble. And so what Nat and the scientists did was they x-rayed them and were able to actually get different x-ray diffraction off of the ink. And then they took the data from those x-rays, which was basically noise, and put it up there for AI scientists to solve. And they did. Which I find amazing. I think this is just such a great use case of being able to do things that we struggle with as human beings. A, deciphering those hieroglyphics, even what it is, and then B, making sense of it, and three, understanding, interpreting them. That's just massive potential. For me, one of the favorite

applications I've got is understanding and translating human to animal language. There was a project in, I think I was tracking 2017, that was trying to use machine learning to understand and rewrite dolphin language. And they thought by 2022, they would have a working version. It got derailed by the pandemic, but now we'll be able to do it trivially. The big problem with that is that, let's say you want to talk to dolphins, we probably don't want to hear what they have to say. Because I think the big danger point there. You know, I just had, as you know, you're on my board at the XPRIZE Foundation.

And this year at Visioneering, which is our big event of the year where we debate and we discuss what prizes should we do next, we had two great AI prize ideas that bubbled to the top. One that I think is really needed, which is AI for truth. And that prize we've talked about before is given a datum. Can an AI engine tell me that this is based in fact, this is someone's opinion, or this is actively disinformation. Would so love that, right? And it's so important in today's world of like obvious deep fakes and the ease with which we can create deep fakes, I think is going to pause a massive challenge

for our elections and for our media globally. Yeah, I'm going to show you my favorite deep fake of the week that came out. But before that, going back to interspecies communications, the other XPRIZE we've talked about is just that, an interspecies communications XPRIZE. And I've had some meetings since Visioneering about that. And I love the idea that we could talk to a dolphin for search and rescue or talk to birds to say, there's a child lost in the forest. Can you go help us find it? And one of the questions is, you know, if we're communicating to animals, maybe we need to be careful about what we say to them. So we don't, we don't pollute their mindset, so to speak. we say to them so we don't um we don't pollute their mindset so to speak i well i mean it's hard to imagine that we could do much worse than we're doing now right like there's all this data about the the vibration by big ships in interfering with whale song all around the world and causing

massive barriers and shipping lanes act as like boundaries that whales the whales can't communicate through those anymore. So there's all this stuff that's happening negatively anyway. And I think anything we can do to understand it and mitigate those is better because now we just have more data about what's actually happening.

I want to just read a paragraph about this Vesuvius text again here. So it was a grand challenge, $700,000. These 15 columns, this is from a post, these 15 columns come from the very end of the first scroll we've been able to read. It contains new text from an ancient world that has never been seen before. The author, probably Epicurean philosopher Philodeas, writes about music, food, and how to enjoy life's pleasures. In the closing section, he throws shade at unnamed ideological adversaries, perhaps the Stoics, who, quote, have nothing to say about pleasure, either in general or in particular, unquote.

All right. Well, political debates all the way back then. You know, this is the thing. Once you have three people, you have politics, right? Two people, you have a conversation. Three people, you have politics. Yeah, love that. I remember in our early days at Singularity University,

we got to a point where we had 50 alumni from Italy. And in those 50 people, there were 14 political factions that had been emerged already. Like, how has this happened? And they were going to create a 15th while they were there. Yeah. So the FCC bans AI-generated robocalls, right? So there was this robocall, this deepfake of President Biden telling New Hampshire voters to stay home.

Fascinating. fascinating. Again, it's like, I tell people, you are going to default from seeing as believing to actually just not believing in what you hear or what you see. You know, that AI for truth idea is such a powerful and important and necessary instrument, such a powerful and important and necessary instrument. Because unless it's validated at this point, I think you make a really important point here. Because unless you know something for sure, you have to basically take it with several grains of salt. So I was talking to Tristan Harris, who's also going to be on stage with me at the Abundance Summit. Tristan's the head of the Center for Humane Technologies. Yeah.

And you know him from his appearance on Social Dilemma. Brilliant thinker. And the question he asked was, okay, can humans do this? When you're looking to ask, can an AI do this? Can a human, when given some data, actually track down whether it's factual opinion or active disinformation? What do you think? No, the answer is absolutely not. I mean, look at some of the stuff that... Why would you expect an AI to be able to... I mean, given enough time and resources, could a human track it down? Can you go... Oh, of course. That, yes, that can be done. But I think in the time scale that we're looking for, that we're talking about, right? Trump won the 2016 election by

the fact that lies were spread so much faster than the truth could catch up to it. Yes. And there were 20,000 verifiable black lies that he spouted out during his presidency. So when I talk to whether supporters or whatever, what aspect of reality are you living in to operate in that model, whether it's redrawing the maps of where the hurricane will hit or whatever? And I think this is the enormous difficulty. Because, you know, remember we had the conversation last time about how we get hit by negative news and we retain the emotional element of that much more powerfully.

And then even when reality hits us, it doesn't change the emotional effect it had. And I think this is the difficulty. You tell me that a politician has beat his kids growing up and you show some images or so forth. And I know it's not true, but just in the back of my mind, that neuron is poking up and saying, well, maybe it is, maybe there's some truth in it. And that erosion of truth. Yeah.

And so this FCC banning of AI-generated robocalls really needs to be the beginning. And I think the only way is to make deep fakes, not avatars. I think of avatars as the positive terminology. I have an avatar. You have an avatar. We have a Ray Kurzweil avatar for our book. of a Ray Kurzweil avatar for our book. But in a deep fake where I didn't give it permission, that should be as illegal as counterfeiting and punishable by jail time.

It should be. The problem is that A, finding out who generated it, right? And finding the source of that generation is going to be very difficult. So now the question is, do you make it the responsibility of the transmitter? So in other words, do you, I mean, let's, you know, how do you stop this? Maybe you say that the conduit, if Facebook or X or LinkedIn is sending it unverifiable, and it turns out to be a deep fake that they're penalized or if you retweet something. Yeah. So I think that's where it has to go, but that's where you need the AI for truth injected into there, right? Where you have choke points of, let's say on X, if X had built into it an AI for truth that could say and give it a reading on this is 80% likely to be false, check carefully, and just use a color coding or whatever, and just said this is for sure false and deleted it off its platform. I think you need it at those information choke points.

And we're always going to have those choke points just because that's how human beings operate. Text Elon and ask him if he wants to do a next XPRIZE. Seriously, I think this is one he probably should want to do. He should want to do it. And all of the tech platforms should want to do this. Yeah. Yeah. No, agreed. The question is, can it verifiably be done? And if it can, then can you transmit the authentication through a blockchain metadata link or something? Yeah. Right? I mean, yeah. I was the advisor to a project that was actually trying to do this, where if somebody puts out something false, then a bunch of people can look at it and flag it and go,

we think this is fake. And the rating of the person, the credibility of the person got built into that rating. And so they were trying to do it using a hive mind, but I think you can do it with AI very easily today. I love that. So, you know, people who've got a high as a reporter or as a tweeter or whatever have,

if you have a high uh you know uh truth index you're not going to want to ruin that so i'm going to believe you more exactly and my and my willingness to retweet your statement is worth a lot more to you if if i've got a high index there um let's you know this is again i'm not sure we need government policy here just because the market forces will dictate that this is really important. And a button that says this has been verified by an AI is a really powerful economic motivator for some of this. Yeah. Here is a video by a friend, Andrew Ng. He was with me at Abundance 360. And I want to listen to his message because I think it's really quite important. And let's talk about it afterwards.

off or worse off with more intelligence in it, be it human intelligence or artificial intelligence. And yes, intelligence can be used for nefarious purposes and it has been in history. I think a lot of humanity has progressed through humans getting smarter and better trained and more educated. And so I think on average, the world is better off with more intelligence in it. And as for AI wiping out humanity, I just don't get it. I've spoken with some of the people with this concern, but their arguments for how AI could wipe out humanity are so vague that they boil down to it could happen. And they can't prove it won't happen any more than I can prove a negative like that. I can't prove that radio waves being emitted from Earth won't cause aliens to find us and space aliens to wipe us out,

but I'm not very alarmed about space aliens. Maybe I should be, but I don't know. And I find that the harms, there are real harms that are being created by the alarmist narrative on it. I think he puts out deep wisdom here. This is very, very important. And I think, you know, just in terms of the intelligence side, if you believe the thesis that technology is a major driver of progress in the world, right?

And Ray Kurzweil challenges us to find a better one. Like, is there another major driver of progress in the world? We actually can't think of one. And therefore, the more intelligence you have, the more technology you can develop. And therefore, that's a good thing. I listen, I agree. I think that there is a direct correlation between a level of intelligence and optimism, empathy, love of abundance of life of all of those things you know i think the more intelligence you have the more wisdom right you can create i've often said that ai is going to generate incredible wisdom you know you talk about wisdom a lot um and as part of your of your work when i think

about what is wisdom um you know someone who's wise is someone who's seen a lot in life. They've experienced a lot. They've heard a lot of stories. They know where this road is going to take you. And I think AIs can create, spin up a billion, a hundred billion simulations of every possible perturbation and therefore know a lot more about where these different roads are going to go. And therefore by virtue of that level of multi, you know, multi-universe simulations could generate tremendous wisdom.

Completely concur. I mean, it's not just even a good thing. It's almost a mandatory thing because we won't be able to navigate a volatile world in the future without that lens of depth and operating in real time to help make sense of the world. All right. Here is my next conversation point for you. It's something we've talked about. You found this article. Put it up for me. Yeah, so this basically talks about the fact that a big job in corporate America today is whoever's in charge of AI. You talk about this. We talk about this in the book that companies will need a chief AI officer. It has to be right at the C-suite level.

It's such a critical function and enabler that if you don't have this at the C-suite level. It's such a critical function and enabler that if you don't have this at the C-suite level, then you risk being disrupted and you won't be around for long. So when you make the comment around that kind of existential threat of either your company using AI or you're out of business, right, I love that framing.

Yeah, I say by the end of the decade, you're either fully utilizing AI or you're out of business. So people ask, what can I do? How do I get started? Everybody acknowledges, yeah, I get it. It isn't AI that's going to kill my company. It's another company using AI that's going to kill my company. And so what do I do?

And my first comment to them is find a chief AI officer. And they say, what is that? And for me, a chief AI officer is someone who's on your team. They aren't coding a large language model. They're not, you know, they understand what's going on and they're whispering in your ear. They understand your business and they're saying, okay, we're going to use, you know, this product from Google, this product from OpenAI, this product from whatever it might be. And in so doing, they're helping you use the technology that's coming.

And that chief AI officer could be 21 years old, for all I care. It doesn't need to be. You want them to be 21 years old. Yeah. Right? Yeah. We have a community member, Diego Saroa, okay? And he's amazing. This is the EXO community.

In my EXO community. He's a GSP alumni from Singularity University. And he teaches, he's a professor at a university called IE in Spain. And he uses AI for grading the papers, advising the students as to how to write their papers, different models of researching papers, image generation using Midsjourney. He's got a full panoply of AI tools that is mandatory for both him and his students to use. I think that's where we'll end up very soon. The idea of a chief AI officer that can help navigate these models and just plot a course through this is absolutely mandatory in

my head. And not just for companies, but for government departments and for policy think tanks and for pretty much every function where we had human intelligence before, you need an AI assistant going forward. So let's take it a step further, pal. You know, you and I have talked about having AI board members, having AI executive officers. When I'm in a board meeting right now, when I'm in a staff meeting right now, I've got, you know, Gemini open or chat GPT, and I'm asking it the same questions I'm asking my team. And in fact, you know, one of the things that I think is incredibly powerful is to say, okay, here's a problem, you know, asking the team what they think of it. And then I might say something like, what would Steve Jobs think of this problem? And you can post it in that way and say,

how would Steve Jobs answer this question? Or how would he market this product? And it's incredibly powerful, right? So where is this going in terms of taking over the boardroom and the executive suite? Well, you know, we talked in when we launched the book on the Impact Theory podcast, Tom Bilyeu's podcast of having the next billion dollar company be three people in a bunch of AIs. Right. And then Sam Altman, of course, took it to the next level and said it's one person with a bunch of an AI officer, well, there's absolutely no reason why your CMO can't be an AI, why your CFO can't be an AI, why your CEO almost can't be an AI. I think you'll end up with a C-suite of AIs helping you manage the company

with the human being the shoveling of information and data and reports into the AI. Because it's going to do a much better job of summarizing everything. What I look forward to is the fight between the CMO and the CFO, can we fund that project or not? And the CFO AI will go, we can't afford it. And the CMO AI will go, we have to have it, et cetera. And that'll be the fun discussion for me.

You know, this year at Abundance Summit, I've got a generative AI scorecard in which I'm asking our members to score themselves in all of the business operation functions. Like how much generative AI are you using in HR, in legal, in operations, in IT and cybersecurity and so forth. And there are so many incredible tools currently available. So at a minimum, your executive officer needs to be using these tools to complement themselves right now. I think you're going to end up with what I call the 1995 IBM problem. What's that?

So in 1995, IBM did a survey of all the CIOs of the Fortune 500. And they said, how many of you use open source software in your computing stack? And 95% of them said, no, we don't use open source. We have totally Oracle, Microsoft, closed stack computation, software development, et cetera. Then they went down to the sysadmins who were running the systems and said, how many of you use open source? And 95% said yes. and said, how many of you use open source? And 95% said yes.

And IBM made a major bet on open source as a result, bought Red Hat, et cetera, and proved to be a huge success because all those sysadmins, which were actually using open source, ended up over time becoming the CIOs. And I think if you went to a CEO today and said, how many of your people are using generative AI? He'd go, no, we're not really using it. But down on the ground, they're all like using it every day illegally and inappropriately. They're feeding half the company's information to chat GPT without realizing it.

And it's happening anyway. So I think that's what you'll find there. All right. We're about to go to Bitcoin. But before we do my favorite deep fake of the week from Super Bowl Sunday here, we've got our president hawking snacks. Take a look. It's Super Bowl Sunday.

If you're anything like me, you like to be surrounded by a snack or two while watching the big game. You know, when buying snacks for the game, you might have noticed one thing. Sports drinks bottles are smaller. A bag of chips has fewer chips, but they're still charging you just as much.

And as an ice cream lover, what makes me the most angry is that ice cream cartons have actually shrunk in size, but not in price. I've had enough of what they call shrink inflation. Pretty damn believable. I think we are in a world where you can't even tell if that was real or not real because you can just as easily imagine it being real. I could. I'm like, you know, I could honestly believe it's real. And that's scarier than knowing it's a deep fake. Hey, everyone.

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Symbiotic. Trust me, your gut will thank you. All right, let's go back to the episode. You know, you and I are both huge believers in Bitcoin. Let's take the conversation there. We were on stage together at an XPRIZE event, and like every other sentence, like, buy Bitcoin, buy Bitcoin. Let's take a look at a couple of images that are for fun. This is from Bitcoin Magazine on X.

And it's an article here that says the Internet may be just a passing fad as millions give up on it. I don't. I think their point is Bitcoin is not a passing fad. And I'm going to share one more video here. I love this video. This is back in 2013. By the way, kudos to you, buddy. You're the first person I ever heard speak about Bitcoin. It was during one of your talks at Singularity University, and you're talking about Bitcoin. It was probably 2012 when you were first starting to talk about it. Fair enough? No, we were giving out Bitcoin at SU at 2011. Brad Templeton was giving it out kind of as a joke,

but people didn't understand it then. And frankly, we barely understood it then. Yeah. Let me play this video. Take a look. I'm right here watching history be made. Bitcoin is now up to $111. It's an all-time high and it's continuing to rise. I've seen it break three times today, went up to $110. And this is the highest that it's been. It's ridiculous. Highest it's been. Ridiculous. What you would do with a time machine? Go back, buy Apple stock early, buy Bitcoin early. This is why we know that time machines don't exist, because there's so many obvious arbitrages, right? I was talking to an old friend this morning, and I said, when did we last chat?

It's been a while. She goes, yeah, we last chatted when you told me to buy Bitcoin. It was $3,500 a coin. I thought, wow, that was a long time ago. This is just a kind of the most incredible thing for me. I've watched Bitcoin go from $0.05 to $0.50 to $5 to $50 to $500 to $5,000 and now $50,000. And it's just the most unbelievable, but it's very clear the pattern and it's very clear why it's,

I think it's a complete arbitrage on broad awareness and intelligence of what's going on in the world. Yeah. I'm going to have Mike Saylor this year at the abundance summit. We're going to go deep on... Nobody better. Nobody better, right? One of the largest holders. I guess the ETFs now have more Bitcoin than him as a corporation, but as a private, not a private company, but as a non-ETF company, he's been just all in. And kudos to him. First of all, people should know he's a fraternity brother of mine from MIT, my undergraduate years. We were basically living together.

He was AeroAstro as well. And I met with him a few years ago, and he told me the story of his Bitcoin logic. of his Bitcoin logic. And he basically went through the logic chain of what it is as a store of wealth, why it's immutable, why it's energy, how it's going to go. And once he reached the conclusion that it is going to become the dominant mechanism for storing wealth and isn't going to be dropping off a cliff. He just went all in over and over and over again, convinced his board of a public company, which is a big deal and hasn't turned back. And he's laughing all the way to the bank in this one. Well, here's one of the calculations I've heard him talk about.

one of the calculations i've heard him talk about if one percent of fortune 1000 cfos put their treasury if if if fortune 1000 cfos put one percent of their treasury into bitcoin you'd end up in a million dollars of bitcoin yeah uh and like there's lots of arguments we i had uh kathy wood on stage with me at the abundant summit a couple years ago i'm about to do a podcast with her. And same thing, her calculations have it targeting somewhere between a million to $5 million of Bitcoin. And this is a figure that she posted on X that looks at Bitcoin's hash rate. It's at an all-time high, which is pretty amazing, It's at an all time high, which is pretty amazing of 500 exahashes per second. And this is a signal of transaction and demand because a lot of the Bitcoin is not being traded. It's being hashed and created.

Yeah. And held. And held. I think, you know, there's some great points here. One of them is about two years ago, we crossed more than 50% of Bitcoin energy usage was renewable. And almost all Bitcoin mining energy is marginal energy. That's like a hydroelectric dam that's not being used fully. And they use the rest of it for Bitcoin mining.

And so there's some incredible things there. I think, can we step back and just give some foundational rationale here? Please, yes. One is, we have 200 fiat currencies that are terrible to manage a global world. Define a fiat currency for folks. Fiat currency is the U.S. dollar, the Argentinian peso, the euro. It's made up by government. It's not backed by anything. That's right. It's by fiat, by government fiat, the decree that that currency operates. And the destruction of monetary value, I think you have

a graph on that that's worth looking at. The destruction of value in the US dollar is kind of unbelievable to see over a period of time. Here we go. So check this out. Yeah, go ahead and tell us what this means. So what this means is that we, and there's a massive blip, if you look at like the from the from 1960s, it kind of took its last big collapse downward, right? There was some dips in the depression, et cetera. Essentially, when we floated the US dollar, Nixon did it. He floated the US dollar off the gold standard and made it a truly floating currency. They did not realize at the time that technology was deflationary, that your $1,000 TV will only be worth $500 in a year, and you could buy the same thing for $250 a year after, right? And the problem

that you have with fiat currencies is they use debt to grow the economy. So Jeff Booth talks about this in his book called The Power of Now. And he made the staggering observation that over the last 50 years, every dollar increase in global GDP came with a $4 increase in global debt. So we're glorying the global economy with debt, which is absolutely not sustainable. And if technology is deflationary, you can't borrow money and then pay it back because you have to pay back that much more money. And the whole system at some point will implode. And so that basically gives a rationale for a deflationary currency that doesn't do this, which is where Bitcoin fits in. And not by accident was Bitcoin created during the 2008 financial crisis when we just printed a ton of money to save all the banks. Wow. And as I'm reading this, Bitcoin is at $49,700.

Well, and as I'm reading this, Bitcoin is at $49,700. It tipped over 50K this morning. Yeah, amazing. Amazing. And Vincent Durrani, one of our community members, talks about this. He says this is the biggest asymmetric bet in human history. It's either going to go to a million dollars of Bitcoin or it's going to zero. And you're at 50K now.

So if you buy into it, you may lose 50K, but the upside is so much bigger that you're crazy not to dabble. You know, the question is whether governments will try, they will try or succeed in making it illegal. So can I rant for a second? Yeah, of course. They have been trying. They have been trying for ages. Okay. There are three things that are notable here. One is just over the last few days, a key figure at the Federal Reserve was asked about Bitcoin. He's like, oh, it'll never succeed because you can't use it for payments. Well,

those, how can I say this politely? Those bastards tax every Bitcoin transaction and every crypto transaction as property. So it's a taxable transaction, meaning you're prevented from using it as a currency. So they're complaining that you can't use it as a currency because they've actually implemented it that way. What they've been doing is trying to tax and slow down the on-ramps and off-ramps of crypto. So a lot of the banks that collapsed last year were intentionally forced to close by the government because they're active crypto trading banks.

So the government is trying to slow down. The best argument I've seen against this is actually, especially in the US, is First Amendment. So when I send you a Bitcoin, I'm actually sending you an alphanumeric text of stringing numbers, which is First Amendment. Freedom of speech. Freedom of speech. So how I interpret how you interpret that string of numbers is up to you. So it's it's completely not stoppable in the US. The banks and the financial system are desperately trying to slow it down as much as possible. But the need for it in global trade and intercompany

thing is just crazy. I'm on the advisory board of a weird alternative SDR type currency. And the founder of it noted a really amazing transaction where a big jet, a big engine company sold $100 million worth of jet engines to a country and took as payment 150 million dollars worth of frozen chickens for these jet engines and uh the extra 50 percent was now you have to deal with containers of frozen chickens but the rationale behind it was that governments hate foreign reserves leaving their shores so they put all these capital controls on it, et cetera, et cetera. And it really is a global trade is almost run at the big transaction level, run more on a barter system than anything else. So you really, really need something like Bitcoin just to manage all of that going forward. Amazing.

You know, I do believe that there is a future where it's all digitized. I mean, when I have cash in my pocket, it's kind of funny to look at the cash, right? I no longer use coins anymore. And I've talked about and written about and we've talked about the six Ds of exponentials, that when you digitize something, it's a slow deceptive initial growth and it becomes disruptive. It dematerialized, demonetizes and democratizes. And so Bitcoin is the digitization of currency of wealth.

And it's, we are in the process of dematerializing the banks and our monetary systems so we can democratize and make it available. It goes back to the comment we made in the last podcast about, I want to write more about this, but it's permissionless disruptive innovation that we can now do for the first time. Nobody asked permission for Bitcoin or Ethereum,

and yet they're taking over the world from a finance perspective, right? And if governments could find any way of stopping it, they would, but you can't actually regulate these in any easy way. Yeah. Here is a little story from this morning. Let's check it out. Welcome back to Spotbox. The price of Bitcoin crossing back over the forty eight thousand dollar level over the weekend one month this after the launch of the spot bitcoin etf anyway it's uh it's gonna be something which um we may look back uh at this and say wow it used to be that cheap um and we'll start talking about satoshi's versus bitcoin that's right i think it's absolutely going to happen uh it's you know i've mentioned to you watching it go from $0.05 to $0.50.

I finally got the gumption to buy into it at $500, right? And you have no idea how many friends I have that mined Bitcoin at $0.05 of Bitcoin and then lost the hard drive. It's like unbelievable crocodile tears of people losing their hard drives or losing their private keys. And literally about 20% of Bitcoin will never be recovered because of that. But as people lose trust in the existing monetary systems, it's all one big spiral downwards. The only tool left to central banks today is to print more money. And so this all adds to Bitcoin as a hedge against central banks printing a ton of money, which is what we've been

doing forever. I mean, what was the stat? We printed 40% of all the US dollars in existence during the pandemic, right? Naturally, you're going to have inflation and prices are going to go up 40%. I mean, well, I mean, that's what that's what this chart of, you know, buying power as you print more money, the buying power of the dollar is just diminishing. And one of the things is you put in real estate, but when you're paying real estate taxes, that's diminishing the value because it just can't hold it. And so there's very few things where you can actually maintain that store of wealth. And Bitcoin is one of them. And, you know, go on. I want to make one more comment about Bitcoin versus the altcoins. That's very powerful. This

again goes back to Jeff Booth, who I think of as the chief economist of the abundance era of the crypto era. He's just like incredibly smart about this. So there's three triangular points on digital currencies that are important. Security, scalability, and decentralization. Those are three points that you have to hit to have a decent cryptocurrency. And what Bitcoin did for the first time in human history, it hit decentralization and security at the same time. And that was incredibly powerful. Except it didn't solve for scalability. So you had all these altcoins pop up to try and solve the scalability problem. But in doing so, they compromised on either decentralization or security. And we saw FTX collapse. We saw Luna collapse as a result of that. But now because

of the Lightning Network, Bitcoin has solved scalability. So now the smartest people I know are putting all their chips on Bitcoin. Everything else is a gamble. And this is a sure bet. And that's, I think, really interesting to mention. Yeah. One of the things that Michael Scher will be talking about with us, I think it's on March 19th, is his lightning rewards. And what he's done is he's built a system at MicroStrategies where if you're an employee and you show up to a meeting on time, you get a few Satoshis. If you take the HR learning course, you get a few satoshis it's basically rewarding you in cryptocurrency at a you know a fraction of a bitcoin a satoshi uh for every correct action that you take uh yeah and fascinating idea which is great if you have 5 000 bitcoins in your

treasury it's harder for other people though they have to go now buy the Bitcoin. Well, I think he's got a lot more than 5,000 Bitcoins in his treasury. I know. I know. I know. Well, buddy, listen, a fun week. I'm still stunned by $7 trillion fundraise. We'll see how far it gets. Apple Vision Pro, kudos to Apple for another amazing product.

And AI every week. And you know what? We're still at the very beginning of our AI journey, aren't we? Oh, very, very beginnings. I mean, look, it's it's evolution is intelligence developing, evolving. Right. And I think we're hitting a point where now we develop intelligence at an exponential rate. And that's just going to, it's just, it is just the beginning. How do we talk about it in the book?

The K-Mirror explosion has hit and now we've got a bunch of little furry generative AI mammals running around. Yeah, it's interesting to think about, you know, we think about Apple and Google and Microsoft and NVIDIA. And 10 years from now, there'll be a hundred of those trillion dollar companies that we've never heard of yet. Yeah.

They're going to pop up out of nothing very, very quickly. Yeah. All right, buddy. Quick prediction. Where do you think Bitcoin will be the next time we do an episode? Oh, I think it'll dip back down a little bit. I hope it will so I can buy more. But I'm not going to time it.

I'm not going to time it. I think, you know, I had bought Bitcoin as high as when it was near 60 last time. And so I think we could see it at 60. I predict 70. 70. All right. Sounds like you're going to be buying soon. All right. Good to see it at 60. I predict 70. 70. All right. Sounds like you're going to be buying soon. All right.

Good to see you, buddy. Likewise. See you again next time. Take care.