Morbid - Episode 254: The Erdington Murders

Episode Date: August 10, 2021

Y’all, if you haven’t heard of the Erdington murders then you’re in for a doozy. Ash goes over the case of two young women, Mary Ashford and Barbara Forrest who were murdered 157 years apart in Erdington. The way that the two cases mirror each other is just so bonkers and will have you questioning if some kind of Fear Street witch cursed the area. Oh also there’s a trial by combat, so there’s that. As always, thank you to our sponsors: Norton Lifelock: Join now and save twenty five percent or more off your first year at Norton.com/MORBID HelloFresh: Go to HelloFresh.com/morbid14 and use code morbid14 for up to 14 free meals plus free shipping! Stamps.com: With promo code, MORBID, you get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale! BetterHelp: Special offer for Morbid listeners: get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/MORBID See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's ANGI, or Download the app today. Hey, Weirdos, I am Ash. And I'm Alena. And this is Moorbait in the morning! We even have coffee and everything. I kind of feel like we're on like a talk show. Yeah and my mug is a today show with Willie Geist mug. Mine says, I put a spell on you!

It sings it like that. It says it just like that. My coffee is cold now that I just like it. Mine is too. I had gulp to get my like, larynx ready for this. Like larynx. Is that your voice issue now? now, I don't know. You're voice is now like it. I'm just kidding.

But I took a big gulp and it was cold. Minus two, it's like ice cold. I just took a sip and was like, whoa, all right, I'm awake. It's weird. This is, I don't know why I'm talking about this, but I love ice coffee. But when I take a sip of coffee that's supposed to be hot

and it's ice cold, I find it disgusting. I think everybody can agree with that. Yeah, it's a weird humanity thing. Well, you weren't intending to have ice coffee. So I didn't intend that. Set your intentions. Set your intentions, everybody. Or your coffee.

Or your coffee, what the fuck is up? Tell your coffee to get with it. Get with it. Yeah. Lina's just in a giant white robe right now. She's like leading back and she goes, get with it. Get with it.

You're just stupid. I am. But I love to get. I truly am. But you're not at all. It was just like stupid funny. All right. Oh.

We were. Welcome. We were talking and we were like, what's going on in the true crime world. There's a lot of shit going down. There's like a lot of random headlines and stuff going on. Yeah. But it was like everything that's happening, we need to make a full case.

So I think we're just gonna get right into this. Because I'm more, the one thing I'm like, I like need to hear more about is the Summer Wells case. And every time I check, there's really nothing happening. Yeah. There's been like a couple small updates updates but nothing about where she is. Yeah, like basically it's it's really just the same the same of the same of the same every single day.

I think the only thing that we can hope is that because there's really no updates is that they're keeping it quiet and like they always say like keeping it closer their chest because they're hopefully like close and have some kind of leaves. I hope so because that case is really, really bumming me out. If you don't know that case, just Google Summer Wells. Yeah. And it's, I, we also did a Patreon episode. Yeah, we did a Patreon episode about it. And I think everybody has their opinions on what actually happened here. Yeah. But I need answers. Yeah. I need answers. Because there's, there's always three sides to a story.

You know, there's mine and the truth. And I would really like to know the truth. And I want her found. I know, she's just a little bit of a thing. No matter what needs to happen here, she was only five years old. She's this beautiful little thing. So fucking cute.

And it's like, I just want her found. No matter what way it is, she needs to be found. She gives at least any part of the family closure. Yeah, it's bumming me out. It's a huge bummer. But again, there's no update. I keep hoping that someday we're gonna get on here

and be like, guess what? There's an update. We, here you go. And I wonder if you found a life. I would love that. I mean, a bit of a very odd time. It's been weeks and weeks and weeks at this point. But you know what's happened?

It's happened, that's for sure, but statistically, it's not a great outlook, but we'll maintain hope. Yeah. Well, with that being said, I think we should just like hop right into today's episode, because this week, I am going to bring you down one of the wildest rabbit holes that we've ever launched ourselves into. Whoa, you just really sold that.

I sold it and I promise I'm gonna deliver. You gotta bring it. I'm gonna bring it, bitch. So it's like kind of like a case within a case and in the true crime world, this case is known as the Burdington murders. Burdington murders. Burdington murders.

Now, Erdington is like a place in the UK. Okay. So I debated. Okay, UK. Okay. So I debated UK. Okay, UK. I like debated on telling you right up front the wild similarities between the two cases that we're going to go over, but I think it's going to be more fun to kind of realize them yourself as an unfolds and then we'll go over them at the end. Okay.

Alright, so let's get into it. The two victims that we're going to cover today are Mary Ashford and Barbara Forest, and we're going to start with Mary Ashford. I Forest. And we're gonna start with Mary Ashford. I see your face moving over there, do you? Yeah, I want you to not know this. I don't think I know it. It feels a little familiar, but it might just be. When I was reading it, I feel like Mary Ashford feels like an English before.

It does, yeah. Well, Mary Ashford was a 20-year-old girl. She was living with her uncle named John Coleman in Erdington in 1817. So, some time ago, we put you in your time machine and you went all the way back. You know, I love in 1800s. I know you do. I know you do. So mostly everyone in town knew who she was, like everybody in that area knew everybody.

It was like a working town. And everybody really liked her. On May 26th, which was Whitmunday, had you know what Whitmunday is? No, what is it? I had never heard of it. It's a pentacostal holiday, and it's to recognize the Holy Ghost's arrival on Jesus' disciples.

Oh, I think it's like when the Holy Ghost like became a thing. That's intense. Yeah, it's truly is. I feel like this days for every step of that situation. I think there is. Yeah. So this was like a special day.

And Mary and her friend named Hannah Cox had plans to go to a dance being held at the Tyburn House, which was a local inn. And it was also known as the Three Tons Inn. So I don't know if it like changed names at some point, but it's known as both. OK. But the dance was to celebrate the holiday.

So that morning, Mary dropped a change of clothes off at Hannah's home in Erdington, and then made her way to Birmingham to sell some goods at the holiday. So that morning Mary dropped a change of clothes off at Hannah's home in Erdington, and then made her way to Birmingham to sell some goods at the market. Okay. Her uncle that she lived with, she was like a maid for him basically, like a house maid,

and she would go to the market and sell like his dairy products, or anything like produce and everything like that. That fun stuff. Yeah, she was just selling all the stuff. Just selling all the stuff. Just selling all the goods that you need to make dinner. Yeah, she was just selling all the stuff. Just selling all the stuff. That's what you need to make dinner. Yeah. So she spent most of the day there at the market and then she made her way back to Hannah's house and got there around 6 p.m. They got ready

together for the dance and they were like super excited. Even though earlier that week, Mary had told Hannah's mother that she, quote, had bad feelings about the week to come. Ooh, there's a lot of rumination. Oh, my goodness. Now, everyone who knew Hannah and Mary, they both were described as being like, super pretty outgoing girls. Like I said, everybody pretty much knew Mary. Everybody also knew Hannah,

because they were like sisters. Okay, so throughout the night, it wasn't super weird that they danced with a few different suitas. Suitas? I love the word suitors. I don't know why. For most of the night. Hannah danced with a few different suitas. Suitas? I love the word suiters. I don't know why. For most of the night.

Hannah danced with a man named Benjamin Carter. Now in Sam's sources, I read that he was her fiance, and then in other sources, I read that he was just a man's. Oh, wow. So like what different ends of the spectrum? Seriously. I mean, patrols or just a stranger. Literally.

It could be the same who knows there's 1800 There's a lot of circumstances here where it's like it says one thing and it also says five other things Yeah, so I just went with what I saw the most 1800s. Yeah, and what I saw the most was that she just met him that night Okay, cool. So she was Danson Benjamin and Benjamin Man and Mary danced with a man named Abraham Thornton. Oh my god, I love all these people. The names, right? So around midnight, the four of them all left together,

but down the line, they split up, and you're never supposed to do that. Hannah ended up walking home alone, which is something you're also never supposed to do. I don't do that. Benjamin either went back to the dance or went home, depending on the source you look at, who knows, 1817. But one thing is for sure,

Mary and Abraham stuck together. Okay. And when Mary finally got back to Hannah's to change into her work clothes, because remember her all her clothes were at Hannah's house. Oh yeah. She got back at four in the morning. Damn.

So she had herself a night. I didn't know people party like that in the 1800s. Neither did I, and I felt so seen. I was like, yes girl, go to a dance, like be young and get in it and then go to work at four in the morning. Be Neither did I, and I felt so seen. I was like, yes, girl, go to a dance, like be young and get in it, and then go to work at four. Be young and get in it. I've never gone to work at four in the morning,

but you see what I'm doing here. But she, Mary told Hannah that she and Abraham Thornton, it's like Thornton. I keep saying you're gonna say Thorntberry. Oh my God, I want to say Thorntberry. Like, no, I don't say Thorntberry. Thorntberry or something. They always part her.

Yes. Tim Curry was, that's what I keep, but keep picturing Nigel Thorntberry. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something.

I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something.

I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her to do something. I told her And Hannah said that Mary seemed to be in a pretty good mood, if you know what I mean. Oh, so she was like Ron Swanson when he wears this red shirt. I guess, exactly. The little something like that.

Mary was like in a hurry. I think, I don't know if she was like getting to work or if she was in a hurry to like get some sleep. I don't know what she was up to. She was gonna be spending the night at her grandpa's house not far. So she left quickly after changing. She took her party clothes with her

and she was seen walking by a few witnesses. At 4.15 a.m., a man named Joseph Dawson, which I feel like there's always a man named Joseph Dawson in the 1800s. Oh, yeah, we all know a man named Joseph Dawson. I feel you see shit. I think so. He's always seeing shit.

And he did. He saw Mary walking. Yes, he saw her walking. He always knows. And then 10 minutes later, another man, Thomas Broadhurst said that he also saw her walking. And then 10 minutes later, another man, Thomas Broadhurst said that he also saw her walking. They said she was walking alone down Bell Lane, which made sense because she had told Hannah she was going to go to her grandfather's house and he lived on Bell Lane.

Okay. But what was interesting to me was that any witness who saw her between 3 and 430 said that she was alone and that she seemed to be in a hurry and was walking very quickly. So nothing obviously seemed to be wrong when she got to Hannah's, like Hannah said, she was in good spirits and everything. But then it's like those two witnesses that saw her after, like really noted that she was walking quickly and in a hurry. So I'm like, like, was she just late for work? I don't know if she was late for work or then you kind of wonder, like, did she feel like she was being followed? Maybe. I don't know.

I initially my gut feeling was like, that's what I felt. Yeah, you never know. But it would be more than four hours before Mary was seen again. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers,

and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children, and force a heated debate about punishment and America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. What makes a person a murderer?

Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong, and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious

New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Valow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast killer psyche daily in the Amazon Music app download the app today So around 8 a.m. on May 27th and what would be later become pipe Hayes Park a Factory worker named George Jackson stumbled across a crime scene. Oh now a lot of the sources that I saw Said that he was actually the one to find Mary's body,

but it's not true. That's like falsely reported, because I found this wicked old newspaper with his testimony in it, and he said that he found the blight clothing and then went to the nearest house to get help, but he never actually saw the body because he had to get to work.

He was like, I had to go. He's like, you know, I found this fully clothes, but I got a clock in. I can't be late. I'm sorry. I was late last week. They're gonna get suspended. I'm gonna get canned,

I'm gonna get my family bread. Yeah, you know, come on. You gotta think of number one. He did. So he had to get to work, but he got some other people and, you know, he was actually on his way to work when he found what was the bonnet,

a pair of shoes, and the bundle of clothing belonging to Mary. And it was blood. He looked closer and realized that one of the shoes was covered in blood. Now these were new shoes Mary had gotten these for the dance. Oh, that's sad. Now when help arrived, Mary Ashford's body was found. She was only 500 yards away from her house, like her own house. Her arms were severely bruised and she was laying in a pool of muddy water, like shallow muddy water. It was later determined that her cause of death was drowning in the shallow water, and also that she had been sexually assaulted before being killed. Wow. Now, so they were able to determine that she drowned

because they found duck weeds in her stomach. Oh. And I just found that really impressive for 1817. That is. And I thought that was like really interesting. Yeah. Look at forensic pathology. I'm saying.

I mean, it quickly goes downhill, but. Oh, OK. Well, we'll give them that for a second. Here's the shining moment. You're welcome. Knock you off the pedestal now. Enjoy that. So quickly, the police found out that the last person Mary had been seen with

other than when she stopped at Hannah's house was Abraham Thornton. So he was brought in for questioning and he could not believe it. He offered up to the investigators that he indeed had been with Mary that night and that they did have consensual sex together. But that afterwards, he either walked her directly to or halfway to Hannah's house, again, depending on the source, not like an inconsistency in the story. He waited for her to come back,

but she never returned, so he just headed home. And remember, Hannah said that when Mary was there, she said that Abraham had headed home. Oh, okay. She said, like, I hung out with him, but he's on his way home now. Oh, okay. But then he said that he was waiting for her and then he had headed home. She said, I hung out with him, but he's on his way home now. Oh, okay. But then he said that he was waiting for her, and then he had a home.

So it was strange. Maybe she didn't realize that he was waiting for her. So she never returned, he goes on his way. Now there are three witnesses that corroborated his ally. I was going to say his ally. His ally. His ally by. One of which was a man named John Hayden. He said that he talked to Thornton for close to 20 minutes around the time that Mary would have been killed

And it was two miles away So they said it would have taken the average person half an hour to walk that far and it would have taken him like an hour to do Everything that was done to her so it didn't really make any sense Yeah, if that was true if he had stopped it at the like sprint. Literally. Yeah. Thornton himself was not only shocked that Mary had been killed, but also that he was even being accused of this, because he was from the area and not around town as a farmer and a bricklayer. A lot, like some people thought of him as rude or immature, but no one necessarily

expected him to be the guy to to snap and murder his own date. Yeah. And Erdington was just a really safe quiet town full of just honest workers back then, and like I said, they all knew each other. And nothing like this had happened before. This was very unprecedented. When he was questioned, he told the police, I cannot believe she has murdered. Why?

I was with her until four o'clock this morning. Ooh. However. Sassy. she is murdered. Why? I was with her until four o'clock this morning. Ooh, however, saucy allegedly they found blood on him and the footprints leading and footprints leading back to his father's house that looked similar to the ones that were spread about at the crime scene. Ooh, Thornberry. But I also feel like Thornberry. I also feel like back then, a lot of footprints probably looked alike. Because like, how many different patterns

are really up on the bottom of the feet? I literally thought you were gonna just say exactly what I wrote. Because I was like, how many different pairs of boots were there to offer back then? Like how many different patterns on the bottoms of boots were there?

Like there is probably one boot maker in town. Yeah, I really won. Like I'm pretty sure. And all they knew how to do was like, they were like, we figured out how to make a tread. Yeah. So we're just making this one tread, you know, that's all you get.

But I guess you kind of have to give it to them back then, the investigators, they were trying. That's all they got. That's all they got. You gotta at least say, sure. Yeah, we tried. The same boot. They also laid boards over the prints

so that they wouldn't be disturbed. Wow. They really tried their best to preserve the crime scene back then. All right, so why are we not gonna mop a pit of soap? They're doing great. Yeah, and you know, I mean, they're trying. They're doing great. But it's like, they're just finding these footprints and they're like, must be his footprints.

Everything's 1800s. Yeah, okay. I'm giving, no, forensics. Another win. Early forensics. All right, good for them. I mean, I gave it to them. You did. I thought they were gonna really fuck this up though. No, they really don Another win. Early forensics. All right, good for them. I mean, I gave it to them. You did.

I thought they were going to really fuck this up, though. No, they really don't like fucking up. Oh, okay. Cool. It gets wild, though. But so even studying the scene alone, they were able to determine that whoever did this likely snuck up on Mary and had probably

been in the field waiting for her. Because remember, that wasn't a park yet. It would later become the park. Yeah. Now, the footprints leading up to the scene were normal strides and there was a pair. There was like they thought a woman's and a man's pair leading up to the scene. But the ones leading away from the scene made it appear that the person responsible for this like dumped her body and then ran. Oh. Because the strides were like much further apart.

Again, I say this is pretty impressive for 1800s. I thought so too, I agree. So they kept looking for leads, but Abraham Thornton was their only strong lead, so they had to go with him. Now his trial started August 8th, and it was a hot, commodatee. Oh, like hot ticket, hot ticket. Even though it started like really early in the morning,

which for me is 7 a.m. There were already huge crowds of people waiting outside to hear what was going to happen. Like hundreds of people just outside this courthouse. Everyone had their own opinion about what the verdict would be. This was the hot goss. I would have loved it back then. Oh, I know.

When it was like totally fine to do that. Yeah, exactly. Like that's a different time. I would have lived. We would have been there like fanning ourselves. Oh yeah. You'd have like a black do that. Yeah, exactly. Like, it's a different time. I would have lived. We would have been there like fanning ourselves. Oh yeah. You'd have like a black parasol. Oh, hell yeah.

Big ass dress. Hell yeah. I would have cute shoes. I think I'd have some kind of notebook. I'd be writing it all down. Yeah. And I'd just be there. So I could write it, I'd write a book about it under a pen name and pretend I was a man

and sell it that way. I love that. Like, you're really going for it here. You have huge aspirations. I do. I, my Gemini-O going for it here. You have huge aspirations. I do. My Gemini ask just wants to gossip with townspeople. I'd be like, girl, did you hear that? He also said that.

OK. And because there was also some things that they heard that he said. And it became relevant in the trial, which we'll get there. Everybody's waiting outside. They're like, what the hell is going to happen with this? And inside Mary Ashford's family was waiting to hear the verdict.

Now they themselves believed that Abraham Thornton was guilty, mainly because he was the only suspect in the case, and the police like hardly looked at anybody else in the 17th. The prosecution begged the jury to find Thornton guilty. I was reading like some of the transcripts in a newspaper and I was like, wow, the things that they're going for. They said they had a shit ton of evidence on their side, but literally all of it was circumstantial.

Yeah, obviously. They said that they learned in their investigation that other attendees of the dance heard Thornton stay, that he was determined to have sex with Mary because he had already slept with her sister three times. And he said he would sleep with her, though it shall cost me my life. What?

Which like, number one objection is that not here, say? Yeah. And number two, why would it cost him his life like to sleep with her? I didn't even understand that. Well, I imagine he's saying, I think I'm going to have to rape her and that's going to cost me my life because they're going to catch me. Okay. Well, thank you.

That's what I'm thinking at least. That's wild. I mean, you'll go shit. He could have just courted her. It kind of sounds like he did try to court her. I don't know. I don't know. I was not there. I was not there. I was claiming I was there.

I wasn't there. I was okay. Now it only took the jury six minutes to deliver. Six minutes? It took them six minutes, because before they went to do so, the judge reminded them that most of this evidence that they heard throughout the trial was circumstantial, like at best.

Like, some of it was barely circumstantial. Yes, I was just like, we made it up. We pulled that out of our butt, hold that. Now, when they came back to read the verdict, it was announced to the court that Mr. Abraham Thornton was found not guilty. I figured. But Mary's brother William was absolutely outraged and

immediately demanded that there be a second trial. Now needless to say this was like way before double jeopardy became a thing. Yeah. And back then there were laws in place that said the jury's verdict could be appealed by a family member of a victim. Really? Those laws actually changed two years later in 1819, but not before Abraham Thornton's second trial. That's crazy. And Muffin Annas. That reminds me of the Rebecca Nurse trial

and the Salem Witch trials. Yeah. She was acquitted. She was found not guilty. And then Ann Putnam got real pissed about it. And was like, me, you're beginning to. And then they were like, oh, okay, you're guilty. Remember to get the answer. That's the direct quote from the, okay, you're guilty. Remember, you're a damn person.

That's the direct quote from the transcripts that they have fucking put in. How do you spell that? I don't even know. But it wasn't up to me. It was George Corwin was the one who had to transcribe it, not me. But, or John Corwin, excuse me.

But, yeah, she was found not guilty. And then, like, that's wild to me, that back then, that was just like, you're found not guilty. Someone's like, wait a a second that pisses me off And they're like oh, I'm sorry. Okay, let's redo this one. Let's find them guilty now and hang them Right, this is a person. I know it's interesting that they just were like yeah, let's redo that and like they're Rebecca nurse trial Because in this one there was a law that like the family member could be like yeah, let's redo it But it's as I like but that's almost the same it is. It's like the the accused

right. Right. Or the accuser was the the afflicted girls if you will. Yeah. Are the ones saying like I'm pissed about this. Right. So maybe it's the same kind of ruling. But it's just like that obviously they're gonna be pissed about it if it doesn't go their way. You know, also 1692 wasn't 1800s. Yeah, but that I mean this one, they probably had more Lex rules. Yeah, they probably just didn't have a rule back. Like a cow could come in off the street and be like, rare, and they're like, oh, sorry, we got it wrong. You're rich.

Yeah, sorry. We don't know. They had to have this second trial because William was like, nope, redo. Like, wow, he put his thing down, flipped it and reversed it. I mean, good for him for giving a shot. Nice, shoot your shot. So three months later on November 17, 1817,

that was when the second trial took place. This time, Lord Ellen Burr was the one to oversee the trial. Lord Ellen Burr. Lord Ellen Burr. I'm Lord Ellen Burr. I love it so much. Now, he was the one to oversee the trial, which took place at the court of the King's bench.

Hell yeah. And in the newspaper, it was the King versus Mr. Abraham Thornton. Oh, I love that, because that's always like, this person versus the crown. Yeah. In Canada and shit. Yeah, that's really cool. I love it.

I don't know why I love it. I think it's cool because that doesn't happen here. No, it doesn't. Now, are you ready for this jelly? I'm ready. [♪ BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING, BELL RINGING defend myself with my body. With my body. He also at that same time allegedly put a leather glove over his head as a throwing of the gauntlet, but what did that mean exactly? Abraham Thornton was requesting a trial

by mother fucking battle, bitch. Hell yeah, I was just gonna say, please tell me it's a duel. It was a trial by battle. He was trying to trial by battle. Now even better, Lord Allenboro was allowing it. He was like, let's do this. Oh my God, I love this.

This is so game of thrones, it's my favorite. I literally said that later. Literally game of thrones. It is. So the case actually made legal history because trials by battle, like, they don't even know if they actually ever happened before this. Wow.

Like, other than like in the medieval times, but they definitely stopped happening like a long time before 1817. Yeah. Now if you haven't seen Game of Thrones, essentially what this man's was proposing was that he and William Ashford fight to the death or until one of them was no longer able to fight

and then the person standing wins. So if William was able to incapacitate Thornton, then he would be held responsible for the murder and be hanged. And if not, he would have to incapacitate Thornton, then he would be held responsible for the murder and be hanged. And if not, he would have to incapacitate William to walk free. Wow. Yeah.

A trial by battle. A trial by battle. I also don't really know about the whole leather glove over his head. I saw that in one source, but I had to throw it in there because it's like, what if that happened?

I hope so. We took a leather glove and was just like, what? We put it over his head. Oh, we put a glove over his head and less well actually Maybe it was like the thing that you just said like he raised That's what I said and he walked it. I was thinking that you put it over his whole last head It's good that I have you to walk me through life Well shit Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Throwing it over his head and like throwing it on a table. Yeah, because that's like throwing the garlic. Yeah, you get it.

It's fine. Alina had to explain a lot of Game of Thrones to me as well, so whatever. Now, so are we gonna have this trial by battle? What do you think? I got, I hope so. I wish. William Ashford was like literally go fuck yourself. I mean, I would too.

I feel like I'm not doing that now. He was vehemently opposed to this whole trial by combat thing and he refused to take part in this tomfullery. Now, I don't know if it was like that the idea was like so preposterous to him, and that's why he didn't go for it. Like, he was like, we, like, that's not a thing. We don't do that. We don't do trial by combat.

Like, that's if we don't do that anymore, or if it had something to do with Thornton's size, because I couldn't find much to describe Williams build, but Thornton was described as because I couldn't find much to describe Williams build, but Thornton was described as over six feet tall and thick. Like they literally described him as thick, like in 18 hundreds of newspapers, like actually, every source that I read referred to him

as having thick features. They said that he had legs like tree trunks, any very large neck. Oh shit. They also described him when he appeared in court for the first time and they were like he had become, they used a different word for like, he's like a behemoth. Like they let basically, they were like he had become very large. So he's not Nigel Thurham. So he's no, he's in Faffy opposite.

He's not Nigel Thurham. Literally the whole. So I suppose William was probably like, a, I'll lose. This is stupid. It'd be your gigantic and I'll just lose. Right, there's really no. Well, then also like my parents will have lost two children. Exactly, good stuff. This is not gonna happen. So when William denied the trial by combat idea,

the decision then went back to Lord Ellenbara, who said that Abraham Thornton was free to go, he was not guilty of the murder of Mary Ashford. Wow. So basically like William just like forfeited, and then because of that, Thornton was able to walk free. Which is scary, because now he's like shown his cards to... Well, and it's like, for free there. Like, what if he... Right, because now he's being like, I wanted you hanged, and I tried to get you hanged again,

but now you get to walk free and just walk among me. And like, what if you did? Well, that's to kill my sister. One, you're pissed, because I tried to get you hanged when free and just walk among me. And like, what if you did? That's the kill my sister. One your pissed, because I tried to get you hanged when you were found not guilty first. And if you did kill my sister, I have just accused you of that again.

So it's like, whoa. Well shit, I'd be like, yeah, I'm gonna move. Oh, I get out of here. Oh, live here. Funny you say that. But before we got there, Elimboro received a lot of criticism for not only letting

Thornton off, but also entertaining the idea of a trial. Everyone was like, are you good, sir? Like, we can't do that anymore. He's little finger. I feel I think you're right. Yeah. You just wanted it for his entertainment. Yeah. But to this day, no other person has been tried for Mary's murder and there were really no other suspects. Wow. Now while Thornton was still alive, he also faced a lot of criticism in the community. And eventually things got so bad for him that he had to move to America. Wow.

And it took him two attempts to do that actually. The first time that he tried to get on a ship with other men sailing to America, they found out who he was and they were like, get the fuck off the ship. Oh shit. Like you are not coming anywhere with us. This is my ship. Get the fuck off this shit. Like you're not coming anywhere with us. My shit.

Get the fuck off of my shit. Get off. Thank you. This is my daddy's yacht. I'm just kidding. They were like, no, you can't come with us. You can't come with us. You can't come with us.

You can't come with us. And yeah, so, but then the second time he apparently was able to get away. And apparently he lived like a really great life in America. He became like prosperous here. Yeah, lived the American Dream, man. Yeah, and he like got married and like I think he might have had kids.

Wow. So like that's good if he isn't a murderer, but if he did, then I hope he stubs his toe every day in the afterlife. Yeah, that sucks. I mean, I'm hoping that he was innocent. I mean, that sucks that he got like run out of his home, but like he seemed to have thrived here.

So if he was innocent, like good for him. And if not, that's the worst. Yeah, then like go fuck yourself. Yeah, that sucks that he got like run out of his home. He seemed to have thrived here. So if he was in a sin like good for him, and if not, that's the worst. Yeah, then like go fuck yourself. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, I agree. Wow. So I told you there were two murders, so we're gonna have to move to the second one.

So we're gonna move to Barbara Forest. Barbara was born to parents Gordon and Margaret. In 1974, she was 20 years old, and she was working as, in some sources, it said that she was working as a nurse at the Pipehase Children Home. And then in other sources, it said that she was kind of like almost working like as a DCF worker, is what you would say now. She was like a social worker.

A social worker, exactly. So I don't know if maybe she was doing both. Okay. Working with children probably. Working with children no matter what. Okay. It's interesting because it was so much easier to find information about the 1817 case

than the 1974 case. That's funny. Like even on like the newspaper archives and everything, I was like, but where did all the info go? Like why do I know more about the 1800s? I'm confused. So just like Mary Ashford, she also had an uneasy feeling about, excuse me,

had an uneasy feeling leading up to her murder. And she told a coworker just 10 days before she was killed. This is going to be my unlucky month. I just know it. Don't ask me why. Ooh. Isn't that so strange? Why did that both happen to both of them? That would just wait, girl.

The universe. The universe is wilden. So sadly Barbara was right. In the early morning hours of May 27th, the same day that Mary Ashford was killed, and on the same holiday, which by the way, that falls on a different day every year, but it just so happens that it fell on the same day this year.

What? The year that this happened. So in the early morning hours on May 27th, this time 157 years later in 1974, Barbara Forest was found raped and strangled. Her body was left in a ditch in Peipe's Park and wasn't found until a week later on June 4th. She was discovered half naked and buried with brush and bracken.

The site where Barbara's body was found was only 300 feet away from where Mary Ashford's body had been discovered. What? Yep. Barbara's mother said of her, she was a wonderful girl. This is the sort of thing you hear about happening and you never think can happen to you. Oh, it's so sad. When somebody says that, you're like, it's so true.

Because it makes so, it's so real. Because everybody thinks that it can't happen to me. I'm just going to read about it. It's not. That sucks. It's so sad. So the last anyone knew Barbara was out with her boyfriend, Simon Belcher.

Barbara was described as devotedly religious. And she and her boyfriend, Simon, were both members of the St. Mark's Lutheran Church. And actually the night before she was killed on May 26, Simon and Barbara held the church services together that night. Simon was actually filling in for his father Peter Belcher, who was the church's usual minister. So they led the services together. And after they finished the services, they decided to go to a couple of pubs and just kind of have like a night out together.

Yeah. So they went to a few pubs near the center of town and they finished up the night dancing. Wow. They went dancing. Then they decided to wrap the night up at about 1am. Simon walked Barbara to the bus stop at Colmore Circle and that was the last time he would ever see her. The next day was a holiday with Monday. So Barbara didn't have to go into work, but on Tuesday, she didn't show up for work and her co-workers were really concerned because she was not the kind of girl that would just not show up or not call. So they called her family who quickly got into contact with the police and they were able to file a missing person's report. Now in the week it took to find Barbara, there were tons of flyers hang up in the

area of her, her friends and family and the congregation that she belonged to were passing out pamphlets, describing who she was, what she'd been wearing, like just any general information about her, but for a whole eight days, there was no leads whatsoever. Nobody knew what happened to her. Now, if Barbara had gotten on the bus that she was supposed to, it would have been bus number 67, but no one on that specific bus remembered her even being on board that night.

So all these theories started to run wild. Some people claimed that they saw Barbara after 1 a.m. that morning, but that only made the investigation more difficult because like most people were like, no, we didn't see her after 1 a.m. but then there was like a few people that were like, I definitely did. Oh, I witnessed this man the worst. Now people thought it could have been possible that maybe she hitched a ride with someone she knew after Simon dropped her off or maybe that she had been on the bus and like maybe just nobody was paying attention and when she had gotten

off someone had gotten a hold of her. Okay. Because it would have taken her the bus ride and then a short 10-minute walk to get home. Now she lived really close to the PyPay's park where her body was found, and it was really close to her work as well. And like I said, she would have had that 10-minute walk home. Yeah, so a witness actually came forward and told police that they saw a blue car parked near the park

in the area close to where Barbara's body was discovered and close by her home and her work. Okay, so they have like a weird vehicle sighting. Yeah. And they assumed that whoever did this to Barbara had snuck up on her, just like Mary, and it caught her off guard somehow. And they said they probably used some of the low hanging trees to hide under before like jumping out and snatching.

Oh. So it does make sense that maybe she was on the bus and no one saw her. And in the 10 minute walk to get home, that's when she. Okay, yeah, because it just makes the most sense. Yeah, like distance and area-wise. Yeah. So the fact, just thinking of somebody using the trees to hide or just jump out and snatch you

is like really fucking terrifying. No, I hate the thought of somebody hiding in the trees. No, I hate it. Like the low hanging trees. I hate it very much. I hate that. So they actually had one of their female officers, Linda Madison, dress and clothes similar to the ones that Barbara was wearing when she went missing, and they created an entire

reconstruction of the night because they were just grasping at straws in this investigation. They had to love when they do this. I thought that was so cool. They've done this in a few different cases we've covered. And it's always like, I'm like, yeah, extra. Right. I love that they do this. I thought that was so cool. They've done this in a few different cases we've covered. And it's always like, I'm like, yeah, extra. Right, I love that. Exactly. Now over 100 detectives worked on Barbara's case.

And the investigation was led by Detective Superintendent Mick Lennahan. In addition to the reconstruction that they did, they were also doing door-to-door inquiries. They were interviewing anyone that they knew took that bus that night, or just anyone that was known to be in the area. Now, the boyfriend, Simon Belcher,

was quickly ruled out as a suspect. It just like, he didn't fit the bill, and he had an alibi. And it took some time, but eventually by September, investigators narrowed in on a man named Michael Ian Thornton. Stop! A hundred and fifty seven years later, on a man named Michael Ian Thornton.

Stop! A 157 years later, this girl's like, I literally can't. What? Yes, Thornton. And weirdly enough. So like, what? I was looking on like, to like, I need a website to find out if it's a super common last name.

And from what I saw, people were like, it's not, it's like, it's not like overly common. Right, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Like green. Yeah. Whoa. It's not an overly common last name even over there. That's wild. And weirdly enough, they weren't even related. Like people have tried to like look into the genealogy of it and they're not related. Wow. Crazy. So Michael and Barbara actually worked together at the same children's home and he lived on Chester Road, which was not far from where her body was found, and actually Mary had been spotted on Chester Road earlier the night that she went missing.

Wow. So they were literally walking like the same roads. Now, Michael had been found with blood-stained pants, and his alibi was not exactly airtight. I couldn't find out exactly what his alibi was, but later on in the investigation, they learned that he actually didn't have an alibi and that his mother lied for him. Oh. She was like, oh yeah, like she corroborated his alibi.

But she was just wondering. I don't know why I keep saying ally about his alibi. About his alibi, but she was totally lying. Wow. So he was charged with Barbara Smarter and he was set to stand trial. Now, the trial lasted a week, and Justice Croum Johnson,

just like the original judge and Mary Ashford's murder case, reminded the jury that the evidence in the case was purely circumstantial. Stop. Now, they came. Someone please suggest a trial by combat. It didn't happen.

I'm sorry, man. I regret doing that. to try out by combat. It didn't happen. I'm sorry, man. I regret chewing that. Yeah. They came back with a not guilty verdict, which is crazy, but it's like they didn't have any like a hand or anything like that back then.

So that was devastating for Barbara's family. And Michael Thornton, set of the whole debacle, quote, it's been very hard going on for the past seven months. I knew I was innocent all along, which is like, of course you did. If you didn't kill someone, you would know that all. Of course, but I don't know. He's like, I never doubted myself for a moment. I don't like that.

That's good. Now, it's interesting that in Mary Ashford's case, her brother was the one that was so outraged because it's just another way that these two cases mirror each other because Barbara sister Erica is not so convinced that everyone did their job properly, or is giving her sister's case the attention that it deserves. Now, in 2012, she requested that the case be reopened and that DNA evidence be brought into, like, interview. Yeah, because I'm sure they took some kind of evidence,

they just couldn't do anything with it then. So the police came out with a statement saying that there was, quote, no further forensic opportunities to explore. What? And Erica was like, that's bullshit. Like I know that you took samples. There's blood on his clothes. There's blood on his clothes.

And she said she remembered them taking samples. Like she remembers DNA samples like being a thing. Of course. And then she was like, so did they get lost? And like no one will comment on whether or not they've been lost. That bullshit story of it, we lost evidence. It's so fucking old.

It's also like how the fuck do you lose evidence? Stop losing fucking evidence. It's the one thing in the world you shouldn't lose. Like that in your children. Don't lose any of that. That like, how are you losing evidence? There's a whole place for it. There's a literal chain of custody for evidence.

Like you have to know where it is at every step of the way. Yeah, literally. So where the fuck are we breaking all this chain of custody? Like, I don't understand. It's one of those things, and I feel like whenever evidence has lost, it always makes you look like into that department. Because you're like, why'd you lose that? Yeah, it's because it never makes them look good.

It always makes you look shady. Never ever. Like, for example, the West Memphis police department losing the evidence got burnt in a fire. The evidence that could potentially like finally acquit them completely. Lost in a fire. Well, there's no fire. Me, my the fire department is like, yeah, there was no fire. Imagine you say that and then the fire department is like, yo, you're on fire. And the fire department is like, we're not helping you. No, no, no. Yeah, that shit is

pissing me off. We'll definitely do an episode about that. I'm helping you. No, no, no. Yeah, that shit is pissing me off. We'll definitely do an episode about that shit. I'm actually really excited about that. I'm very angry about it. I don't blame you. We should do that, be great episode. I'm like infuriated by the West Memphis three case. It's really infuriated. And it should infuriate everybody.

It should. Okay, so she was like, no, where the fuck is the DNA? Like, where did it go? Yeah, now in addition to the possibility of lost DNA samples, it took them, this just happens, but I just feel bad for how this family was treated. It took them four weeks to get her body back. Wow.

So it's like, it took four weeks to get her back, and now you're saying you don't have any DNA. So what the fuck were we waiting for? Yeah, what was four weeks. And then they also, the family thought that it was possible that Barbara's personal belongings that were either found on her body or near her have also been misplaced.

Yeah. Because when they were told that there were no other forensic opportunities to explore, they were like, okay, so they kind of just accepted that this wasn't going to get solved. Of course, because you don't think you can fight that. Right. So they said, can we have the jewelry like back? Because the jewelry was really special for their family. Yeah. And it had been gifted to Barbara by her Godparents.

It was just something to remember her by. And they also asked if they could have her handbag. So they were constantly ignored when they asked those questions or they were just given a go-round to the point that they actually had a newspaper. The Sunday Mercury tried to reach out as well. Now, the Sunday Mercury was told that the police could neither confirm nor deny that Barbara's personal belonging said been misplaced. And that's shameful. So you're literally telling this family maybe maybe we have them literally shame maybe not gross. And when you're saying like I can neither confirm

or deny. So you're saying that it's a lot. You're saying you don't have it. Like don't say maybe, come on and fucking say it. Like okay, coward. It's so sad. And at that point, like in 2012 her father, I think was like 90 and her mother was like eight. Like they're telling this like elderly couple who lost their daughter in the most gruesome manner. Like, sorry we lost her shit.

And her purse that's all they're asking for. And like DNA samples. And you couldn't even, wow. That's so sad. That's so sad. It's so sad. Now, still to this day, no one has been charged for Barbara's murder other than Michael Thornton, who was acquitted.

Wow. And even the prosecutor on the case later stated that there wasn't much evidence and admitted that what they did have was all circumstantial. It was not gonna get, it was like, like it shouldn't have even gone to trial. Wow. And it sucks that like in 18, whatever, 18, 17 or whatever it was, they did a better job

back then. Well, like the brother was able to just be like, no, no, no, don't like it. Right. Again, one more time, fellas, everybody back to their places and everybody did it again. What is it, one more time with feeling? Yeah, one more time with feeling, everyone. Right. But then bring it up to like two thousand's here.

And the sisters like, no, you didn't do your job and they're like, oh, we lost every two thousand. 2012, like, my bad. And it's like, do you know what you could have done with the fucking DNA? Like you could have absolutely, I mean, you could have either proven that he is guilty or you could have proven that he's not.

And like maybe put, like, I mean, she was raped. They may have had something. They put it through a system and found some other case that's connected to it and put the person away. Oh, that's inferior. It's just like, it's like, do your fucking job. Yeah. Now, Erica later said of her sister, quote,

Barbara had more about her than I did. She was more energy and drive. She should have been working that weekend, but for some reason, she didn't. I think she enjoyed doing the work. She believed in helping the children. On the Sunday, the day before she disappeared, she went for a walk with Simon

and talked about what she wanted at her funeral. We always felt that it was a strange remark for someone of her age. Yeah. And that's like they both had feelings. Like weird feelings, like, premonition, something was gonna go wrong. And not only did Barbara say to someone like,

this is gonna be a bad month, she also was telling her boyfriend what she wanted at her funeral. Yeah. That's just like the day before anything happened. That's weird. So those are both of the cases, but just to review all the similarities,

it's like the key to the spot, the difference. Yeah. Both murders happened either during or right after Whitman Day in Erdington, the same place, in the same park. Both Mary and Barbara were 20 years old. So I'm actually say that they had the same birthday.

I was trying to find an obituary for Barbara and I couldn't find one. And none of this like sources that I read said her birthday and same thing with Mary, but some people say they have the same birthday. That'd be crazy. Their bodies were only found 300 feet apart. They both spent their last night dancing and both suspects in each case had the last name Thornton and both were acquitted.

That's so wide. A 157 years apart. That's so wide. I was reading this one thing and it was very crazy and out there, but it was like, if people believe in reincarnation, it's like, what if Mary Ashford passed away and then came back as Barbara

and passed away in the same way? Right. Isn't that so amazing? But it's so funny, because it's not funny. But I was just watching Fear Street, the first one, and it's the whole thing about the witch and she takes people with her and it's a cursed town. I feel like there's some kind of curse at this park.

It feels that way. And well, and I want to go into it because along the way I was finding out that it's actually associated with a couple of hauntings. Ooh. Yeah, so I think maybe we might do an addition to this episode and have it be all the spooky things associated with this park. Ooh. Right?

That's crazy. Yeah, I love that. But I hate that. Bananas. That is bonkers. 157 years apart. Yeah, that's really wild. Like what? What? What? I'm sorry. That's crazy. And I love that it included a trial by combat. Yeah, I mean, that really sold it really crazy. As far as I'm concerned. I actually found this when I was doing the Melanie atier case. Yeah. You remember in that case, how there was another girl named Melanie ATIA? Yeah, that was strange.

I was on this online forum, and it was a few think that's crazy looking at this case. And then I started doing it, and I was like, what the fuck? And you're like, shit, we gotta cut for that board. Yeah, I never heard of this one. That's more of the morebs. The morebs, the morebs.

The morebs, so I hope you guys like top on. Wow, that was nuts. Thank you. Thank you for that. And you didn't know it. No, I didn't, I love that you didn't know it. I did. I did. I did. I did, it's very rare that I can get a case by late. That she is not hurt. I really didn't know that one. So thank you for bringing it to my life.

You're welcome. Well, do you want to shout out some patronuses? Yes, I think it's time for that. I think it's time. Look at you. I have the list up right here. It's, hey, oh, it's like we planned this. It's almost like we planned that. Did you know I was gonna say that? I did. Or did you know that you were gonna say that? I did not. All right, well, thank you to Jamie Sweet for being such a sweet.

Jamie Sweet, you're so sweet. You're such a shawry day. And then I'd like to thank Zach Taket. Zach Taket, I love you. I love that, your name feels good. It's like Zach Taket. Zach Taket. I like it. It sounds like dang flabbit. I love that. Your name feels good. It's like Zach Taket. Zach Taket? I like it.

It sounds like dang flabbit. It sure does. It's exactly what it feels like. I would then like to think Flex G for being such a G and Flexin on us. Flex G. Flex G. Thank you. Yes.

I'm obsessed. Then we've got Stephanie B. Stephanie B. I bet you get Ace. I bet you're an all-star in friendship. In friendship. Then we've got Terry Joe Baker. Terry Joe Baker. I feel like you're just like the sweetest

and you make really good cookies and it's not just because you're last name is Baker. Okay, not that. She just feels it. I feel like you're sweet. But I feel like any like Joe Baker, like something Joe Baker always feels like, not that. She just feels it. You just, I feel like you're sweet. But I feel like any like Joe Baker, like something Joe Baker always feels like, oh yeah.

And I love Joe for like a middle name or like a second name. I love that. So thanks. Thank you. And then we have Sam Laster. Sam Laster, you've been last in forever. We love you for it.

All my life. All my life. We think we have Lizbeth Corgan. Lizbeth Corgan, do you know that you have the same name as Lizzy Borden? Lizbeth. I think the name Lizbeth is really cool. It's cool.

It's different. In Corgan, like Billy Corgan? Yeah, that's cool. I love it. You're cool. Lizbeth, thank you. Next up is a Natalie, either cooler or color. Probably color.

How do you spell it? K-U-L-L-E-R. Color? Color? Color? Color? Color. Yeah. Color me! Color me! Then we have Jamie Maffis. Jamie Maffis.

I'd like to thank you personally. Thank you so much, Jamie Maffis. We then have Hannah Box. Hannah Box. Don't ever put Hannah in a box. Don't you dare put baby in a box? Mm-mm. What's in the box?

What's in the box? And I think we'll do two more. How about we finish this off with Robin Dix? Robin Dix. I love you. You are pick-up sticks. Yes, yes. And then last but certainly not least,

thank you from the bottom of our hearts to Amanda Romero Amanda Romero are you related to the horror director? Love ya mean it. Thank you so much. All right guys. Well, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it Why didn't I join I literally don't know that was weird? I kept it that weird that I Literally don't know. That was weird. I kept it that weird that I didn't say it. Oh my God, I don't know why I didn't say it.

She enjoyed me. I didn't. We did it. Keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't tune into your own show to say the thing that you've said for the past three years of your entire life, wow. That was the worst setting.

I don't know what the fuck happened. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morbid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.