Morbid - Episode 255: True Crime Songs with Ronnie & Ben from Watch What Crappens!

Episode Date: August 16, 2021

This episode we are joined by Ronnie Karam and Ben Mandelker of the Watch What Crappens podcast, for something a bit different! Throughout the years recording Morbid we’ve come across an abundance of songs that were inspired by true crime events. We figured it would be pretty interesting to break down some of the crimes and songs with these fellas. We revisit the Moors murders to talk about The Smith’s ballad “Suffer Little Children,” reminisce on hearing Fastball’s “The Way” while having no idea that it was inspired by something dark and last but not least we dive into Neko Case’s “Deep Red Bells,” which was inspired by the Green River Killer’s victims.  As always, thank you to our sponsors: HelloFresh: Get up to fourteen free meals—including free shipping! —when you use code morbid14 at HelloFresh.com/morbid14 Purple: Right now, you’ll get 10% off any order of $200 or more! Go to Purple.com/morbid10 and use promo code morbid10 Prose: Take your FREE in-depth hair consultation and get 15% off your first order today! Go to Prose.com/morbid Embark: Go to Embarkvet.com to get free shipping and save $50 off your Embark Breed and Health Kit with Promo code MORBID Simplisafe: As our listener, you can save 20% on your SimpliSafe security system AND get your first month free when you sign up for Interactive Monitoring service. Just visit SIMPLISAFE.com/morbid See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Whether it's routine maintenance and emergency repair or a dream project, Angie lets you browse home on her reviews, compare quotes from multiple local pros, and even book a service instantly. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out

of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Alena, I'm Ash, and I'm Ronnie, and I'm Ben,, it's morbid. I don't know how to mash those two up. I was gonna try it. Watch what morbid. It's watch what mappings. Watch what morbids.

Yeah. Yeah, I think. It's good to sense. We tried. We have special guests with us today. We have Ben Mandelker and Ronnie Karam from Watch What Crap Ins. Hi. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you guys so much for having us.

Thanks for having us. Hot Lane, hot e-ish. You are always welcome here. I think everybody who's listened has heard us both recommend Watch What Crap In's probably a zillion times. Probably from the beginning of the show. Thank you. You guys so much for doing that. We love your show

I love murders and I've gotten really addicted to listening to your show. I love that that jigs. I love that Honestly, I love that your show your show is that thing where everybody's like what do you guys do to stop? Like thinking about these horrific murders and bring yourself back into a happy place? I'm like, I listen to watch what crap happens. I just want to like, I recommend that to all. Well, yeah, you know, it's funny because to stop from thinking about the darkness of the housewives,

I watch murder shows constantly. So this is not weird. It's a weird circle. It's a different kind of darkness. It's a beautiful cycle. I often pitch the show. I say, when people say, what's our podcast about, I'm like, it's a thing that makes you often pitch the show. I say when people say what's our podcast about? I'm like it's a thing that makes you not think about grizzly death, you know?

That's the tagline. Watch your crappins. We'll make you forget about gris. Make that your new description. Watch your crappins. No one dies. Until it drives back. Almost Lisa Rne's mother. Yes. Yes. Which we just talked about.

We have not covered that serial killer yet, but now we have to. Now we're going to do that like next week. David Carpenter. Yeah, almost murdered Lisa Rinne's mom. Yeah. Rinne or Lisa Rinne or Mom. Yeah. That was like a reverse.

Yeah, the trailside killer killed people on hiking trails, which is just so rude. I mean, murder is rude in general, but like, I'm extra, do you know how hard it was for me to get out there and exercise in the first day? Yeah, right. And then you're gonna murder me about it? Yeah. It's also so cliche, right?

It's like, I don't know if I wanna go out on that trail because what if there's a murderer there? And everyone's like, there's no murderer. And then the trailside murder is like, I actually think I'm gonna do that. I will murder someone on the trail. I'll do that. Not only that, I'm gonna make it my thing. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the trail I actually think I'm gonna do that. I will murder someone on the trail. I'll do that. Not only that, I'm gonna make it my thing.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm the trail side murderer now. Yeah. Like make it more convenient for me if you're gonna kill me. Like a treadmill murder. Yeah. You want to catch me there.

And you're not expecting anyone there. No, never. Yeah. That would be bad. Not even expecting myself there. Really growing trails. Honestly. Well, today, unfortunately, that would be bad. Not even expecting myself there. Really grown trails. Honestly. Well, today, unfortunately, we're not talking about the trail side killer, but we are going

to talk about other killers. And today, we are going to do something a little different. And hopefully, everybody's not like, ah, you're probably usually like on the earth. But we decided we were going to do something just like weird and spooky and I'm also going to bring you down for a minute so like just get ready. It's like our job. I'll like try to bring you up a little bit.

I don't know. I can't promise anything. But what we are going to do is talk about four songs that most people probably have heard, especially one. One is like very popular. And these songs were written based off of true crime events or just really like weird spooky creepy events. And we're just gonna talk about the real case, we're gonna talk about the

song, and we're gonna talk about how weird it is that people write songs about murders. Yay! I think it'll be fun. Music committed. More bit the musical. Exactly. Once more with feelings. Yes. I'll just stake it. So the first one we're going to talk about is the one that I think everybody's, at least going to remember the song. If you hear the song and you go to your Spotify and listen to it, you're going to be like,

oh, yeah, that's song. It's the way by fastball. It's like a really upbeat song, kind of summary. It is summary. I was listening to it the other day after you brought it up, and I was like, ooh, and then I was like, oh, oh, wait. Oh, oh, oh, don't. Yeah, I was just listening to it in the car very recently,

and I was like, oh, this song. I actually bought that CD in 1998. I have the fastball CD, and I pretty much bought it for that song. That was back in the day when like pre-MP3 where My rubric was it if I liked two songs I would buy the CD and I actually liked the way so much I bought the whole CD based on that one song Yeah, it's a pop this song and it's one of those you know, I'm not really a big lyrics Listener in general like I never know the lyrics to it songs and I get them wrong all the time So this one the second I heard it for this. I was like, oh my god. I love this song How is this about two old people wandering off and dying in their car?

How's that? You tricked me like we're all walking around like You tricked me. Like we're all walking around like da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da that's sort of commemorating like the 20 year anniversary of the song. And it's telling about the history, but it interspices it with the lyrics. And as you read the lyrics, you just know exactly the lyrics, like those lyrics. Yes. You're like, oh, I know exactly what part of the song that is, because the lyrics just get into your head. Oh. And when you first listened to it, you were like, oh, cool. It's like a song about two people who are just like, forget about it. We're going to go on the open road

and forget about our lives and everything's gonna be great. You're like, wow, fun. Except I never listened to the one part of the song where it says their children woke up and they couldn't find them and I was like, whoa. How did I middle-dumbed? You had children and you just abandoned them. My problem is that I recite lyrics.

I can sing lyrics, but I don't actually pay attention to them. So I just like blindly, I'm like, their children woke up and they started crying. I'm like, no, but I'm not actually thinking like their children woke up and started crying. Like, wait, what? Yeah, that never hit me until now. Yeah, but also like, that's what children do.

So it's like, okay, there's still a lot. It's like the children wake up, they're crying, but the parents are drunk on the lawn having fun. Like, that's what it sounds fun, you know? But then to find out it's about this, it's about an 88 year old and an 83 year old couple, one with Alzheimer's, one who just had brain surgery, they go to some fair in Salato, Texas,

and then just disappear and are found two weeks later dead in their car. I mean, you guys, like, I get that we have to make things sexier for entertainment, but what is their children woke up and couldn't find them? They're 88 and 83. Yeah, exactly. I know, I was young.

You mean not too when we were just talking about that. It's like, well, they woke up in their own home. Yes, they were. Which, they were just crying because their marriages were falling apart. Had nothing to do with their parents being missing. They weren't like in-crims, like, even like mama. Where are you? Yeah. You can probably you? I need you to literally survive. It's still bleak but like in a different

bleak way. They're trying to make it bigger than bleak. It's more about the emptiness of their lives. It's even bleaker. It's like your 50 year old child wakes up crying. That's a thing your story going on. It's a totally different bleat messages. Well, the real story is it's like a I don't you know I don't remember this happening at all, but apparently it was like it was like nationwide news. Like this was a big deal when they were missing and their names were Lala and Raymond Howard. And like you said Lalaaila was 83 and Howard was 88. They lived in Texas.

They had both been married for like a really long time before finding each other. But both of their spouses had passed away. And I think it had been like a decade between them losing their spouses and them meeting each other. So they had a decade of like, just hanging. Like before they met each other. Gotcha.

And they met in 1986 at church. And they fell in love and they got married that same year. And Raymond had recently undergone brain surgery. I think he had had a stroke. And he had been in like a small car wreck that he had gotten some kind of brain injury. And Layla was showing a lot of signs that she was suffering from like Alzheimer's or some kind of brain injury. And Layla was showing a lot of signs that she was suffering from like Alzheimer's or some kind of dementia.

There was definitely some memory loss going on. And since Raymond was going through the brain surgery trauma, he was having memory loss. So their family was getting a little concerned about them driving. But I think I would. And they tried. They were getting, so they would hide their keys sometimes, but then they said that they respected them so much and this upset them,

so they didn't want to like, and it's kind of like a fine line. You have to walk. They just hide the keys at that point. Just take the keys. No, they don't stop, you know, because you kind of become a little kid again. We took my grandpa's keys away, because he was just literally running into everything. And, you know, he still had his wits about him, but he was just all, I mean, he was in his mid 80s. And of course, he didn't want to do it. He was like, this is bullshit. This is bullshit.

My old Lebanese grandpa. And we took him away. He would go through everyone's shit to find his keys. And sometimes it seemed like he was doing, like trying to hit things. That turns out my Amazon. That turns out my Amazon. It's getting bigger out today.. That turns out my Amazon. Amazon's like, can I get you a bumper?

She's a bug. And it's a bug lot. You know when she comes on and she starts like, oh by the way, if you need this, this is her. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud.

In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would

shatter the lives of countless children, and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively

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Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. But yeah, it becomes a thing. And then in this story, they had been stopped a couple of

times by the cops in Arkansas because they their kids think they missed an exit or something so they just kept driving all the way to Arkansas and I mean Listen if you ever need somewhere to live and you like to drink and drive go to Arkansas The cops are like you're fine To go and they were only supposed to be going 15 minutes down the road this day 15 minutes down the road It was like a 10 mile drive. It was to this like pioneer day 15 minutes down the road, it was like a 10 mile drive. It was to this pioneer day festival thing

that they went to every single year. And their family was like, I think it was their son was like, hey, I can drive you and drop you off and I will absolutely come get you later. Like maybe we should do that. But Leila was like, we do this every year. I can do it. Don't worry.

I'm gonna drive. That hurts my heart. I know. So they let them go. Because I mean,, don't worry. I'm gonna drive. That hurts my heart. I know. So they let them go. Because I mean, I don't have like super elderly parents, like in their like 80s and the Alzheimer's. So I can't imagine what it's like to have to be like, hey mom and dad, you can't go.

I have to bring you. It's like such a weird role reversal. Yeah, they probably weren't ready for that. And it like feels disrespectful. Right. It must be such a strange place to be in. And so they were like, we're gonna go. It's not something great. It could be such a strange place to be in. And so they were like, we're gonna go. It's not something great. It could be like, oh my turn. No, you are not going

out right now. You're not gonna get your back in your bedroom. I'm actually excited for that, maybe a little bit. They won't let me go anywhere. You're gonna pay it back. The rebel kids were there. Except at this point, they're like, we don't want to go anywhere. It's like, so that's fine. Ash, you're like, you have to go out. Go do something. So yeah, they went off in Leila's old mobile. She was driving because she had become like the primary driver at this point,

especially after his accident. But like, she was still going through it, so it wasn't awesome. Usually they came home around 3 PM on the days that they went to this festival, but 5 p.m. came around 8 p.m. Nothing was happening. They didn't hear from them.

So they immediately called the police because their family was like, uh, what could be happening right now? So the news was everywhere. This went out everywhere. Except Arkansas. I was just gonna say, that's what's crazy to me.

It's like it kept saying in all the sources I was reading like this was nation wide news is everywhere. They were not our helicopters were searching for them and it's like but these two Arkansas cops are like hey guys I think we're gonna see those those peeps hey, what you do is like did I don't ask them where they were going That's my question right like they did but like if they were supposed to have gotten off the like at an exit, if the theory isn't they missed an exit then but then kept on driving, don't you think that like the police officers might have said something like, hey, where are you going? And they're like, oh, certain town in Texas.

And they'd say, oh, turn around. Like I'm wondering what is happening there. Right. But funny you say that because one of the cops that stopped them said they did seem a bit disoriented, which is like if you stop an elderly couple who is disoriented, like maybe call someone. I don't find family.

I don't know what the protocol is for that, but there should be one. But it doesn't seem like you like pat them on the ass and send them on their way. It's a good protocol. Guys, you have to remember it was pioneered. It was basically. And there were probably loads of older people like a drunk on the roads.

You know? That's very true. And probably it was probably down to that. Like, it's another drunk frisky old couple again that we're pulling over. You know, like are your eyes crossing? Good. Get yourself on. You're good.

You can get it. Like there's five tree branches and a stop sign wedged into your fender, but I think you're good to go. Well, it was the second cop that stopped them because I guess they didn't have their headlights on, so that's why he pulled them over. And he talked to them and he said that first of all, he said that Leila in particular was so gentle

and seemed like his own grandma. Oh, stop right now. Okay, just ripped my heart out of my chest. Thanks a lot. Yeah, that's grandma privilege right there. And she said, oh, I can't wait for that. Right? She said that they were trying to get to Texas.

But even that to him wasn't like cause for concern. Like you should go back there because he also was like, hey, where are you from? And she was like, I don't know. And he was like, oh, okay. Cool, just get back on the road. And he flicked on their headlights and we're like, just get back that way.

She said she didn't know where she was from. Like that should have dinging. And did you say he flicked on the headlights? He flicked on her headlights for her. And was like, oh, there you go. Like try, I guess that was like, let me help you out there. There you go. Let me not I guess that was like, let me help you out there. There you go. Let me not just like drive you to work.

You know, in his defense, which I don't know why, just, but just for fun. Go on. I think we're very different back then, you know, as far as like, you know, it was a headlight you had to actually switch on. It's not like now you get on and everything turns on. And then if you don't have your seatbelt, it's like, it wasn't the automatic headlights that go on. Right, if you miss your exit, your car's like, idiot, make a YouTube video.

Yeah. Yeah. Like back then you had to have maps and memory and. It just seems like people get arrested for far less than what these couple, like there are certain people in this world who they have one fraction of those things that they do on their on their on their pullover. They it's not gonna end in the same way. They would take a little more time.

Little more time. They definitely would. Well this actually later made that particular department do like a whole overhaul of how they dealt with like impaired elderly drivers because they were like yeah this shouldn't have happened. Yeah like literally they need a protocol. This could have stopped there. They would have found them, they would have contacted the family, and they wouldn't let them drive again. So the family found out about this, they did find out that two cops stopped them, because they were getting like sightings of them throughout Arkansas.

So now they're like, what the hell is going on? Oh my god, imagine being their kids. But they're getting like hope now, because they're like, okay, they're alive. Right. They're just tooting through Arkansas. And I guess Leila also had like family in now, because they're like, okay, they're alive. They're just tooting through Arkansas. And I guess Leila also had family in Arkansas, so they were like, maybe she's trying to find them. I don't know. They made a lot of different drives to Arkansas themselves

to try to look for them. They couldn't find them. 11 different states were looking for them at one point. They were spotted at a farmer's market together. In Arkansas, so they must have stopped. You're really adorable. Right? So if you go off and it plays a glory,

get some fresh produce, you know? This was really good to take ash for a ride. Yeah, my heart. But yeah, they couldn't find them. Then 13 days after they went missing, two young boys in hot springs, Arkansas, were walking home from a video store, and they smelled something very strong

while they were walking by a cliff that led to like a ravine and a creek. They went home, straight home, and they told their parents. They were like, they didn't see anything. They didn't see anything. Because this place was also searched at one point, but police couldn't see, because it was such thick brush, that they might have already been down there,

and they didn't know. Oh, you know, I mean, this is the benefits of rural areas because if you're in Los Angeles and you walk by something that has a crazy smell like that, you're like, well, it's Thursday. Right, but it also shows the difference in like how much the police pay attention and how much the parents pay attention because the police are like, all these two people are kind of out of it. Lost, don't have their headlights on. Not that fishy here. But the kids come home and say, bomb the creek smells weird. Well, of course the creek smells weird. But the parents have more foresight to be like,

maybe there's a crime. Exactly. And they did, they called the police. Because they were like, maybe someone should just go check. I don't know. So the police showed up and at the bottom of a 25-foot cliff, they found Laila and Raymond's Oatsmobile.

There were no skid marks leading to the cliff, like so she did, there was no break happening. They just sailed right off the cliff. So maybe she thought she was just going down like a rural road. They think that maybe, they also think they were going about 50 miles per hour, they could tell. So they think that she either didn't see the cliff and just sailed right off of it or maybe thought it was a turn or maybe something happened that she became apparent to the point where it just like just me chills to like picture that. Yeah. And Raymond had seemed he

seemingly had passed away like pretty quick. He was in the passenger seat still in the passenger seat. passed away pretty quick. He was in the passenger seat, still in the passenger seat. She, however, had left the vehicle and had managed to walk a short distance, a very short distance before collapsing and passing away. And from things I read, she was still holding the keys and everything like.

Oh my God. Wow, this is terrible. Why did they write a song about this? They had traveled more than 400 miles away from their home. 400 miles and 13 days. And they're supposed to go 15 minutes away. 15 minutes away. It's like such a sad, sad ending to this story.

Because it sort of has a whimsical quality to it. It does. It does. Why they wrote this song, it's like pioneer stop. And it's just like, they're just cruising through and like, seems like everything's just vibing together in the good vibes. Yeah, but it's just like then it ends and you're like Womp. Yeah, like you like bomb at the end like that's not how I wanted it to end for them I the only thing that their grandkids and their children said that like they were glad they were together

Yeah, that happened like it wasn't just one of the other. But I think that she's a little for like even a minute. Even a second around. Yeah, I can hope is that like she didn't know what was going on. Yeah, I would. It must have been also so startling, right? I mean, do you ever, you've ever been driving in a very fast-forward cliff? Yeah.

Right. I know it's a hot take out. I know. A little bit. But yeah, the lyrics, anyone can see that the road that they walk on is paved and gold, and it's always summer, they'll never get cold, they'll never get hungry, they'll never get old and gray.

Aw. Isn't that like ruined me? That part is, that's what I wrote down for creepy as lyrics. That gave me chills. And then at the end, it says, you can see their shadows wandering off somewhere, they won't make it home, but they really don't care.

Yeah. But maybe they do share. I don't find this on creepy. How do you know that? I don't find this on creepy because from what I read, the song was written almost like the leaning into the liberation aspect of it. Like, let's make a break for it.

Let's go to the Ozarks. And then, you know, it sort of didn't pan out. But like, I actually feel like there, I think that fastball's angle is the Ozarks and then, you know, it sort of didn't pan out, but like, I actually feel like there, I think that fastballs angle is the right one, which is, this is it, let's just go and, you know, maybe it wasn't supposed to end exactly like that, but, you know, I do feel like they probably had an fun adventure to finish it all out.

Yeah, I feel like they did up until that point. Well, I think you signed a farmer's markets, you know. Yeah, they actually wrote it during the search, the 13-day search, because I think their manager had told them, because I think they were kind of like stocklierically. And so their manager was like, hey, you should look at the newspaper, the news, and like get inspired by things, which is like strange, but it would have been like, I guess it makes sense though. Stop mocking. Stop mocking. Stop mocking. Now keep looking. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop no developments in the case of the missing couple. I just started getting these ideas. Well, maybe they don't want to be found. Maybe they're just like, they're sick of being responsible and

they just want to go out and have fun. Which is, that's exactly what he wrote. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I think it was? It was the headline that they, so he saw this story in the Austin American statement, statesman newspaper, and the headline said, elderly salotto couple missing on a trip to nowhere, which I was like, that's the headline that draws. That would be very inspiring. It is, and it's also good for tourism, because in Texas, they're probably like,

literally, is a town named nowhere, because we have a bunch. We've got lots of little towns out here. People are like, hey, how many of you checked out, nowhere, could you just have, you ever been nowhere? I feel like it's so snobby, maybe they were going somewhere

and they're like, they're going nowhere. They're just going nowhere. Yeah. They're career-shaming them, the paper, they're family loves it. Enjoy your trip,

nowhere old people. Yeah. Wasn't actually, wasn't the toy box killer from truasing consequences? Yes, yes he was. That's the name of the town that he was from, yeah. An actual town named truasing consequences. Wow, that's in New Mexico, right?

Truasing consequences. New Mexico, that's what it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, close. That name always bothered me growing up. Because people would be like, hey, we're going to go to truasing consequences for the weekend.

It just always sounded like a game that I wasn't popular enough to be asked to work. It also sounds like really bleak. I don't want to go to treat the consequences. No. I want to go to Liza. Who wants any obstacles? Liza, no consequences. Liza, no consequences.

Let's go to Liza and free them for the weekend. Liza, irresponsibility. Liza, no accountability. I'm just going to say. Liza, no accountability. I'm just going to say. Los Angeles. I love it. Well I was in a responsibility. Yeah. I have no accountability. I'm just in Mexico Los Angeles. I love it. Well, their family loves it.

They think it's like a great tribute to them. I guess at first when they heard it on the radio, because it was released as a single, and they were like, hey, that kind of sounds like what happened to Mom and Dad. And then they found out afterwards it was written about their mom and dad and they said Leila would have loved it.

Oh good. Like she would have loved to be like a star as. She would have like popped to it. Yeah, and they said like it feels like a very good tribute to them because like they like to take little trips and adventures together. So it feels like it's like right to them.

Which I love. Well, and it just takes the like, I would keep saying bleak, but it just takes the bleakness out of it all. It does, it takes the darkness that definitely could be attributed with this song. It's like, okay. It makes it like, I think somebody said before,

it makes it whimsical. I love that the family loves it. Because I love love. But also, I love love love. No, because I was sort of expecting the article to then tell us about some protracted legal battle. And I like that they actually were just like, this is so awesome that we have this song

to remember grandma and grandpa. A nice tribute. Yeah, right. Yeah. And that she would have loved it. Yeah. Like I love that she would have been like, that's me.

Hell yeah. And it just goes to show you, you may just think you're, you know, on your way to some pioneer fare with, you know, your husband's like another day, but you're gonna be written about very shortly in a pop song, you know. So keep your heads up everybody.

Look for that. Look at that. Nothing else. Fastball's listening. Oh, listen, all of you out there in truth are consequences. New Mexico. Just keep that in mind. Fastball is one of your happy birthday.

Well, they're looking for lies and unrestplanned and no accountability. Fastball is barely like a dick wolf of songwriters, right? I feel like it's like the rip from today's headline. They're officially... No, no. They need to make like several albums that are just ripped from today's headline. I would love that, actually. I would too.

I would listen to it. Well, they're not getting invited to the Lil' Fair. Lil' Fair. Now, there's a ceramic lock em' with real. That would be a crime. She would really have a, I would like to see her song about this, because it would be beautiful. Sarah Maglucklin actually has a song that she wrote that I almost included on this.

Oh, shit. Yes, that's about the stalker that she had that sent her and she uses pieces of the letters that he sent her in the What song is it? Possession. Oh, I don't know if I've heard that. Oh, yeah, you really creepy read I really haven't I just don't realize it Yeah, we'll have to talk about that one I don't know because I feel like there's so many of these that I kind of want to do a part two at some point Like we should just have a series with Ronnie and back I'll bring you back like we should just have a series with Ronnie and Ben. We'll just bring you back.

Hot takes our songs. Yes. But one, I will say this next one is like, Mom, Pwomp, like this one is definitely a real bummer. So get ready, everybody. Hold on to your lips. This is called Suffer Little Children and it was written by Morrissey.

Morrissey's always out there doing the most. He's feeling a lot of feels, and he's letting us know about it. But usually I love it, but this one is, whoo, well this one is about the Morris murders. And if you listen to Morbid, which you're here, if you listen to Morbid's four-part series, yeah, I did four episodes on the Morris murders.

So I spent like weeks like totally enveloped in those, and if you want to listen to those episodes By the way, because I'm just gonna give a quick overview of this. Yeah, they're 166 167 168 169 and you will hear our To climb You will you will hear us have to take many a breather is Watch many a bravo shows and listen to many watchrocraft We definitely recommend you guys in one of those episodes Absolutely, I'm just gonna go listen to Roddy and bad I can't do anything any watch what crap is episode. Oh, we definitely recommend you guys in one of those episodes. Absolutely.

I'm just gonna go listen to Roddy and Ben. I can't hear the guys. Well, this lady, Maira Hindley, does have Durinda hair. She does. She does. She also does a kind of Durinda-esque face, like somewhat.

I never really noticed that, but now, oh, I hate that. I hate that. Not my girl Durin. No, definitely not Durin. It's literally the same hairstyle. It literally is. It's not even like a joke of it. It's like it's exactly the same. It is literally the same hairstyle. It literally is. Not even like a joke of it.

It's like it's exactly the same. It is the same. Yeah. They're a terrifying looking couple. They are a terrifying couple. The Wikipedia of them is really scary. There's always been something scarier about couples murdering people. I mean, that's not only because there's more people.

Like obviously it's two people, so that's scary. But also, there's not only because there's more people like obviously it's two people so that's scary But also there's just something about couples in general You know like when you're single and you and you're hanging around couples It's not all couples obviously, but there are some of those couples who are just like oh really? Yeah And only like they only talked to each other or they give that each other these weird looks while you're there and it's there's just something There's always that feeling of, I could be murdered.

Right, but this couple. And it's just, and it's always weird when two people, that's what I was gonna say, find each other. That like, like this is a very niche thing they were doing. And each murder, like abducting and murdering children. Like that's niche to me. And for two people in the world to find each other and be like, I like you. Right.

Hey, do you also like to abduct a murder children? And for them to be like, yes. Well, because that's the thing. That's wild to me. Like what does that happen? Right. And I feel like a lot of times it's usually one person influencing the other, like a lot more.

And Maira tried to say that Ian was doing that to her, but I think each of them, like on their own, would have been like fucked up either way. And did like fucked up that. Oh, yeah. You listen to her, not that you can listen them, like on their own, would have been like, fucked up either way. And did like, fucked up. Oh, yeah. You listened to her, not that you can listen to the tape, which holy hell I can't imagine if you could. No thanks. But if you listened to her on the tape

of one of these murders, she's just as much into it as Ian is and she tried to claim she wasn't until they found this tape. And they were like, what, which? And she was like, whoops, I guess I was mean on that one. And it's like, oh, to a 10 year old that you murdered Kidding me. Yeah, she definitely tried the whole you little well It was all him. He really just he dragged me and he brainwashed me But yeah, it seems like it was as much her because this relationship was just crazy from the very beginning

Like the stuff they used to do on dates. Like, they would go to an x-rated film and then go drink German wine at Hindley's house. When you were like, what? Casual, just friday. Just throw cat food. Would you like to go watch an x-rated film this weekend with me? I've got some wine.

And play some people's first wine or whatever it's called. That's a weird Tinder pickup. And you're like, I gotta go. Who wants some re-sling and watch an x-rated movie? I think the first liner, whatever it's called. That's a weird tinder pickup. You're like, I gotta go. Who wants some re-sling and watch an ex-rated movie? They always talk about it. They're like, everything I read about them, they're like, well Ian was so handsome and charming,

which I'm like, where? Like what? They show me at one angle. And then they say that like, my role was this ugly bridge troll, which like she was. Absolutely. But they're always just like, my role is this ugly bridge troll, which like she was. Absolutely. But they're always just like, you know, I can't believe that Ian would like,

take her into this. And I'm like, what? The two of them. The child's rapist. Why are we putting him above her? They dig her to all. They are on equal playing fields of gross. Everybody's always angry at the woman.

It's like a society thing. Oh, it's so ridiculous. Yeah, people feel more portrayed by that. I'll give like super, like I'm not gonna go super into the details of it because like my brain laterally won't go back into those. Even you just like referencing that tape, I was like, I closed my eyes first, I gotta go somewhere else. It's a lot.

Well, like this is one of their dates, okay. This is some of their dates. Brady then gave her reading material and the pair spent their work lunch breaks reading allowed to one another from accounts of Nazi atrocities. Mm-hmm. They would literally read like mine comp and like like literally give each other book reports and not see the overbook club. Not quite.

Not quite. Just missed it. How was your lunch? And they would just sit and read aloud to each other from it? Those couples are weird to you. Those couples are a romance couple. I knew a couple like that who had couples book club, but only with themselves.

And we'd be like, are you guys doing that? Today, we have that club and we like red. Do we each other? We have picnics and read to each other. So it's like that gross couple, but with mine comp. But with mine comp. It makes like that's too much gross and gross. I don't think mine comp is ever a value add to any situation.

Especially not a couple of club. I can tell you the only thing that John and I have ever done even remotely close to that is when that podcast Ashtown came out. And he was working during the day and I was at home during the day if we would listen to the episodes and then like text, you'd be like, did you listen episode one?

Yeah, that's just an episode two yet. You have to wait for me Like that's like a TV show watching something right? But I'm like no, we could not have that was a good one. Ask town. Oh such a good one But it was such a bummer at the end Yeah, I was such a bummer the whole time I see any still listening the end. I listened to the first I think three and that one just gets so sad too Because there's a suicide and all this stuff. You gotta finish it out. Yeah, I think three. And that one just gets so sad too, because there's like suicide

and all this stuff. You gotta finish it out. I do. Yeah, I mean, I needed a break and it's been a while, but yeah, then I found spiritual podcasts. So it's back to the, it's definitely back to Astown. I need to figure out. Because I started looking up like the pictures of his maze and stuff online, because you can find them. I got like real, real into that wrap. I haven't actually even listened to Ast-town. I feel very bad about this. I'm like many years behind. It's so good. Same.

I listened to the first episode and then you kind of told me what it was about and I was like, well our job is already really a lot. So I think I'm gonna just listen to anything else. I've been listening to Welcome to Your Fantasy because that's like, you know, involves more shirtless men. I feel like inherently. Well now that we've've all brought ourselves up,

let me just smash us all into the ground. Yay. So the Moors murders, like we said, are Myra, Hindley, and Ian Brady. They were in a really weird relationship together, Wampuam. They had five victims between 1963 and 1965 in Scotland, at least five that we'd know of.

Yeah, there's definitely way more. Yeah. They had Edward Evans, there's definitely way more. Yeah. They had Edward Evans, who was 17 years old. Keith Bennett was 12 years old. Pauline Reed was 16. John Kilbride was 12 years old. And Leslie Ann Downey was 10 years old. They buried their victims in various places

on Saddleworth Moore, which is why they are referred to as the Moore's murders. Keith Bennett's body has never been found to this day, has not been found because the moors are like, you mess. It's so scary. It's like, it's so vast. It's so vast. It's so vast.

I mean, there's a whole monster up there in Scotland. I mean, they can hide anything. They can't. They have a prehistoric monster in a lock. They literally have a monster. Yeah, we're pretty hardcore. Yeah, that that monster is right outside of a castle. That is my last name.

So the orcar castle. Yeah, yeah. That's not my last name, but that's my family's last name. But whatever. I have a monster adjacent castle. Hell, yeah, I used to tell people in like elementary school that we vacationed there, but it's my family's last name, but whatever. I have a monster adjacent castle. Hell yeah, I used to tell people in like elementary school that we vacationed there, but it's just ruins. That's like a bonus.

That's like a bonus to me. This is what was it going in my Scottish castle. This is the guy in about you. With Nessie. And a pet, my vacation pet. Unfortunately though, Keith Bennett's mother did die never getting his body back. Never knowing where he was. Which they tried everything for years to try to get these assholes to say where any of them were and they wouldn't give it up.

They also have photos found where they would go out together to the mores all the time, all the time, not just to bury bodies, but also to just hang out to read mine comp to each other. Yeah, and just like take pictures, like weird-ass pictures of each other, they were just like, they were so dumb. But there's photos of them posing on the victim's graves and like, with their dog puppet, like cheese in.

Yeah, their dog puppet. And then they were using the box brownie, you know, camera. Like everything just sounds so cute, but they're just murdering kids. I know, they're the worst. And in particular, Leslie Ann Downey's assault and murder was captured on audio tape. The former police chief, John Stockerer said of this tape, quote, I first heard the tape when I was a detective

sergeant in Manchester investigating the Moore's murders. When the 16-minute tape was played at the police station before the trial, I saw senior detectives in legendary crime reporters, hard men who had been through the war, and seen terrible things dissolve into tears. Anybody unfortunate enough to have to listen to her harrowing last desperate moments could not fail to conclude that Hindley was evil and an equal partner with Brady in the crimes.

There are transcripts of this day, but I do not recommend you look them up. It will ruin you. It's horrific, but when you see them, because I read them in like a book that I was reading to research the case, you truly see how fucking evil these people are. Like evil, straight-up evil. Give me chills. I would like to remember it the same again after reading that.

No, that case is honestly one of the worst to me. This is definitely one of those cases where you know that saying, don't judge a book by its cover. This is definitely one of those books that you judge by its cover. I do see the cover of this book and it looks freaking terrifying. Yes. Both of them just look wrong.

They look dead. They do have dead eyes, yeah, dead inside. Oh yeah, like especially Ian's like that picture of him. I'm like, he looks like a monster. Like he literally looks like a monster without even knowing anything because I remember I didn't know anything about this entire case and you should be the picture and I was like I hate him I don't know what he did, but I hate him I can yeah, he's got like that frown and just that vacant evil. Yes, you know, like there's evil and then there's like Stupid evil. Yeah, stupid evil, I think is scarier.

It is. It's just nothing. Right. There's just nothing behind there. And there's like, because that's the picture that a lot of people see is that mugshot photo of him. And if you see other photos of him, he looks even scarier. Like that, that photo is really scary. And then you see him just like in Polaroid photos with her and shit and are not Polaroids, but like old, timey photos and her and shit and or not Polaroids but like old tiny photos and like even from the side and stuff he's always just like

furrowed his brow like he's always scowling and angry and you're just like oh well he is more handsome in other photos though I did I looked him up because you said that yeah and there are some where I guess I can see the handsome part I mean not that really matters in a murder case. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot.

But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot.

But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives me a lot. But it kind of drives's called, look at the cast of Summer House, okay? Yeah, serious.

Just because you have a nice face doesn't mean you're not garbage. That's the girl's face. There you go. Jack's, Jack's too. And this also gives you so much stuff. How you can really mask your face without fillers and stuff just by smiling or smoking a cigarette cool from the profile side, really like high-hand stuff.

But then in the mug shot when it's like you're just caught and it's just your plane evil right there. And everything just leaks out. Yeah. It's just who you are. Yeah. Yeah. It was.

Laugh. Well, they were arrested, luckily, after Myers' brother-in-law, David Smith, witnessed Amwisex asked to participate and cover up the murder of their last victim, which was 17-year-old Edward Evans. He broke the next morning after seeing all that, and he called the police. But Edward Evans' murder was literally Ian straddling him in their home with a hatchet and just demolishing his head. Oh my god.

David. And then just being like, David, I need help because I hurt my ankle while I did this. So I can't carry him by myself literally. And this sounded like they were kind of trying to bring him in, right? The brother. They were. Yeah, they were going to try to help. He had met her brother and then the brother and him got along really, really well.

And then the brother was kind of jealous of their relationship because he liked him so much. And so they would try, you know, they would go to the, what is it? Like go to the lake or whatever and hang out all the time and, and, um, Ian was always buying beers and stuff. And so it looked like they were kind of grooming this, this guy. And then it went, it went south. But, um, my row was not into it at all. She didn't want to. Yeah, who wants her brother? You don't want to add more people to your mirror scheme. Well, she was actually thinking that way, which shows like how

when she comes out later and is like, oh, I just, I didn't know. And he just made me do it. And then you find out that she was like, no, I don't want him in here, because we'll get caught. I want it just to be you and I doing so that we can keep doing. I want to keep like murdering children forever and ever. And he's going to ruin it. And it's like, and then later she's like, oh, it's me.

No, you can't have it both ways man. It's really hard when you mix family with business, right? When it is, it really is. And luckily though, they chose the wrong guy and he did not handle it and was nodded into it. And he called the police from a pay phone down the street. They're both dead now, whoop whoop. They both died in prison serving life sentences. Myra tried desperately to be released. Several times she wrote notes to

the victim's families like the monster that she is. She wrote a note to Leslie and Downey's mother who had to identify her ten-year-old baby on that tape, like begging for her, and had to identify her that way. She had the audacity to write her letter and be like, I deserve to be let out. I really can I kill her with my bare hands. And if you wouldn't say where the dead body was about one guy, but wouldn't say where Keith Bennett's body is.

Yeah. Yeah, the whole, the most depressing thing about their deaths is reading how they died. He, his was, um, Hindley, no, this is hers. Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. And his was, I don't know, some other natural cause, like you mentioned, oh, bronchial pneumonia.

I was just saying, it really just seems unfair, you know. I mean, no matter what, oh, sorry. Oh, no, don't worry. I was just going to say, I will say that when when we and I wish I had it in front of me I should have brought it up. They had a like I found every ailment that they were suffering from at the end and all they all did both of them were suffering from like several different like crazy crazy shit leading up to their death. So I hope that they suffer it like makes you believe a little bit More okay, that's a better way to look at them. Thank you. Yeah, I wanted to give you that Well, when you when you listen to the Morrissey song, it's like okay

Well then this fits because the Morrissey song is just super or the Smith song. It's just super super depressing and sad It's just super, super depressing and sad. I was listening to it on a mic. Oh. So dark. This is clearly about extremely dark murders because it's taken me to a very dark place. It's so dark and it even has sound effects in it. Like children laughing and like.

Yeah. That's when I'm in. There's like a woman laughing in it. It's kind of like my ride almost feels like. And it's like, ugh. But it was really disturbing because some of them are like, we were saying earlier, like fun bobs, you know, and then you get to this one and there's like no mistaking that it's about killing children. It's like, literally.

Yeah, literally. With your head. Yes. You don't. But literally. It's literally. It's literally like, whoa. That's the thing. And, you know, John Kilbride's grandfather hated this song. Of course.

Heated Morris. He hated this song was not happy about it. Well, and I'm sorry to interrupt you But you have to wonder in what situation are you putting this song on? Well, that's that's the thing What situation do you feel like you're just listening to this? Listening to this song like I Guess if you really want to go into like a dark place Yeah, dinner party music. Yeah, you're right. You know, just toss it on. I'll listen to a good sad song, but it's usually not child murder. Hey, new neighbors.

Welcome to my home. But it's so marcy, right? It's like so. Of course, Marcy has a song called Suffer Little Children. Of course he does. Of course he does. That's the other thing the name alone is like, ooh, Leslie and Downey's mother though.

She at first was like, I don't know. And then they became friends. Her and Morsie? Yeah. Oh shit. He would go and visit her and I believe Keith Bennett's mother and would like give them money and pay for things for them and they all became close.

Well I guess in a strange way, it's like an artist's point of view of like commemorating the what happened in their life. No fastball. No, it's definitely no fastball. Well, a bit different. But Morrissey actually said he wrote the song because he was so haunted by the Morris murders.

He had said he's been kind of obsessed with it, like not in a way like, oh, I'm so obsessed, but like it just won't leave his mind. Yeah. He actually grew up on or near a lot of the streets that these abductions took place. I didn't even know that. Yeah, so he said he was a child at the time that it was happening, too.

So he heard all the warnings. Everybody was terrified. It felt personal. Yeah, and so he said, quote, it was like the worst thing that had ever happened. And I was very, very aware of everything that occurred. Aware is a child who could have been a victim. All the details, you see it all so evil. It was. If you can understand this, ungraspably, ungraspably evil. When something reaches that level, it becomes almost, almost absurd, really. I remember it at

times like I was living in a soap opera. And the song itself has quotes from Hindley's interviews and names all the victims. And the creepiest lyrics for me are Leslie and with your pretty white beads because that is one of the biggest things she was wearing a white beaded necklace that night that she had just gotten as a Christmas gift from her brother.

And that was like a big thing because those beads were found and tied back to them. Oh, John, you'll never be a man and you'll never see your home again. Oh, man, Chester, so much to answer for. Edward, see those alluring lights tonight will be your very last night. Oh, isn't it just like the whole time?

Like, you know, when your body just goes we've said that before like you know what I mean. It's like it radiate. Yeah, I can chill. Like that. It's not even a chill. It's like a vibration. Yeah, but it's not a vibe.

I'm assuming the song didn't chart so well on Casey Kason's America's text. It's not America's top 40. I doubt it. I doubt it. I don it. I doubt it. I don't think so. But you know. You never know, but you know, at the same time, it kind of like shows you how shallow most of the music we

listen to is now. Oh, yes. About anything. As I mentioned, the lyrics of all these songs today I was like, God, our music is really shallow. What is it even about? It's like, you dumped me. Like literally for three and a half minutes.

I mean, I only listened to Adele, so that's all I really hear. But it's so true. Because this stuff is like really like cerebral, and you have to like think about the different like they're using metaphor, while not Morrissey. Morrissey's just straight up like, hey, this is what happens. But like they're talking about stuff that is actually like important, you know, should be, you know, discuss, yeah, and reflect it upon.

And stories, you know, they're storytelling. Yeah, I literally cannot imagine what it must be like to grow up on a street for several years, where there is like a serial killer and you are the prime demographic. The only thing that I can even come close to equating it to, which is like not really the same thing at all. But in L.A. about what like eight or nine years ago, there was like a around New Year's, there was this like serial arsonist that was lighting cars on fire. And

it was like for five day straight, this guy was lighting cars on fire, which is not the same at all as a serial killer. But this vibe took over the city where it was like, who is gonna, everyone became a vigilant, and it was like keeping an eye out for this arsonist, and it was crazy. And for like five days, it was like, everyone was talking about the arsonist,

everyone was keeping an eye out, and you were just like on edge, and I can only imagine that being exaggerated, or not exaggerate, amplified by murder, right? Yeah. And especially as like a child, and at that time. Well, welcome to being a woman at any time in history.

That's true. That's true. Because well, I think you're a match for being a barrel. I think that is true. And it's not. But like as a child. Yeah, that's like every murder case. I was just reading about one of the songs we talked about covering and it was about a

serial killer. And one of the songs was just how this woman wrote the song because it was during the Green River killer time. And it's like 49 women or something. That's actually the 10 women. Just murdered and no one really cared because they were mostly sex workers or disadvantaged. And it was so sad and it's talking about feeling

like a woman, you know, in that time, and probably every time. Yeah. It's all the murderers. Pretty much. Because they're literally all the murders. No, it's true. It's literally like I want to go jogging in the mornings, but I'm not

going to do a jogging in the mornings and it sucks. But actually, it's funny that you brought that one up because that's the last one we're going to talk about. That's like a perfect transition. That's a great transition, Ronnie. Oh, I thought we'd, I'm so sorry. I spoiled the whole thing. No, that was perfect. You just let us write it into it. You intro it. You did. You just segwayed, Ronnie. That's a segue way. You did a great job. That's what professionals do. Well, welcome to Feeling Like a Woman. In the time period, ladies.

Take it away. Take it away. Neco case closed. So this one is actually called Deep Red Bells by Neco Case. And it is about Gary Ridgeway's murders, the Green River killer, murders. He was convicted of killing 49 women and girls between at least 1982 and 1998, making him the second most prolific serial killer in the United States with the first being Samuel Little, who had 93 victims. 93 plus. Yeah, those are the ones he admitted to.

Right. He's thought to be responsible, though, for at least 71 murders. Correct. Correct. Wow. At least. He says, I think he claims it's like upwards of 80. I always do, though. They do, but he actually has like the body and little back of that.

Yeah. Most of these victims were teenage girls in runaways. They were also sex workers who he would strangle manually, sometimes mechanically with a ligature, and then dump them in like wooded areas or creeks or the green river. This was in Washington State. He would also come back to the bodies many times to rape their corpses. He got his nickname from the press because the first five victims they found were in the Green River. And the thing is also, it was this guy, right, who he was actually the suspect right away, but they didn't have, they just didn't have the evidence.

They had nothing. There's like a full-on movie, right? Like this is the thriller movie, where you know, some movies are who don't. But this is is the one where it's like you know who the killer is but they don't have they can't make the case yet and so the killer like it's usually like Jared Lido or something and they kind of like taunts you and everything and they bring them for questioning and he's smirk with the camera. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, such a good movie.

And that's what this is. They took it. They took like a swab so they had DNA, but they didn't know what to do with it at that point. Luckily, they did that. Well, thank goodness they did it, because it's what got him caught later. This is also the highest requested morbid case.

We haven't done this one. Oh yeah, and I should say, I'm going over this really quickly. We are covering this on an episode, so don't worry. Don't worry. This isn't the only time you're going to hear this, and I'm not just going to flow through it really quick. We are going to cover it. It will be several parts. Don't worry. It's coming. Great. I just have to get my mind into the place to like spend a lot of time with him for this. This is also another case of Judge's of the book by the cover because

this guy is scary looking. This is like Dark Alley run the other way. He was scary looking when he was younger. He was scary looking when he's younger. He was scary looking when he's older He there's no point in his life. He was not a serial killer. State on that scary level. Yeah, he really did All serving scary really. He's so gross. Some people just really like they just really land the role They just are like yeah, I'm be a serial killer and I'm just gonna really just really lean into it with my Oh, yeah, like a night stalker. Oh he committed. Yeah. Even the bad breath. Whoa. It's so cruel.

People describe his breath as wet leather. Ugh. That's freaking awesome. You know what? But you know what? Also about the green river killer. Oh you know that some like super famous actor cannot wait to ugly themselves up to be this whole. Oh yeah. They live for that. You know, Matt Damon wants to do like the ball thing with his head a little bit and do like a little bit

of a mustache and be like, bro, I'm between the killer now. So ready. Now that you said it though, I want Jared Leto. I need to see him play another serial killer. I don't think he'd be good for this one. It's not be a Jesse Plemons sort of role, perhaps. Oh yeah, that's a good one. I could even see this might be weird

I feel like Edward Norton could do it Or maybe a strength or see a little Adam driver maybe Adam draw a hundred percent That's like severe wiggid, you know like like like this hair color and stuff And this is exactly sort of role he would want to do and then he'd make no one look at him in the eyes while he was in charge. Right. He'd be like, do not look at me while I'm in the truck factory set. Do not look at me. I know I want that. I'm surprised that there hasn't been like a big movie about this.

That's common. But I guess it kind of did all just wrap up in the beginning of the 2000s. So they usually wait like a beat before they do it. I also just waited a beat to tell you, I do know who Edward Norton is. I knew you knew Edward. I knew Edward. I'm young, okay.

Yeah, well, man, okay. So Gary Ridgeway was arrested in 2001, thank goodness because it was all thanks to the DNA advances. He had been swabbed way back in the like the 80s. And they finally, right? They swabbed his cheek in the like the 80s. And they finally, right? They swabbed his cheek in the 80s. It's sad on a shelf. And in 2001, they were finally able to use it

to match with Seaman. He left up the scenes. Oh, yeah. He was that like narcissistic and just like whatever that he was like, I'm just, I'm gonna leave it. Well, I mean, you also have to think he probably didn't know that that was Yeah, you don't see it but it's like wow No, but it is narcissistic to just be like fuck it. I can do whatever I want.

Yeah, I literally do whatever I want. Just leave my straight up DNA all over the place. Because what's weird too is that he did a lot of shit and I'll talk about it in a minute to like He was meticulous about not getting caught but then would like leave that Then he would like leave his like business caught, but then would leave that guy. Then he would leave his business behind. It was very weird. But he said when he was first arrested, he immediately was like, no, wrong guy.

You got the wrong guy. But then almost immediately decided to just confess at all. He just sat down and was like, let's talk about it. I'm going to tell you all about that. Maybe he was just getting tired of covering it up. No, I think he just wanted to talk about it. He wanted to see that kind of, he likes talking about it. Maybe he was just like getting tired of like covering it up. No, I think he just like wanted to talk about it. He wanted to see that kind of, he likes talking about it. And wanted to relive it probably.

Oh yeah, and as you see, he like, he's really excited to tell you about it. He said he just wanted to kill as many sex workers as he possibly could. That was his reason. He was like, bummer that you stopped me. Oh. He said he hated them.

He thought they weren't real people. So he said I didn't think anyone would really miss them. And he was like, if anybody did, it would probably be later. And then by then, I'd be long gone. So it wouldn't matter. Oh, what a great age. Jackass. Yeah. He even said, and I quote, I do not have a good memory of their faces. I killed so many women. I have a hard time keeping them straight. Not slowly. Cool. Oh my God. Yeah, his childhood, he was a bed wetter until he was 13 and his mother would wash his genitals

after every episode. He would later tell defense psychologist that as an adolescent, he had conflicting feelings of anger and sexual attraction towards his mother and fantasized about killing her. Yeah. He had like a mutated edipis complex that turned in like his and he could say like later he hated her. He said he used to he used to think about like cutting her face and stuff like this.

Yeah, yeah, I wish he a sex worker. Uh, I don't think so. I wonder what he should have been talking about. There needs to be more fly swatters slapping children's foreheads when they do something wrong. That's what there needs to be more. Oh my goodness. No more serial killers if we just all live by tax. Well, look at this.

I mean, when he was 16, okay, he was held back here in high school. When he was 16, he stabbed a six year old boy who survived the attack. Ridgeway had led the boy into the woods and then stabbed him through the ribs into his liver. Wow. And he said he just wanted to see what it would feel like. I don't see that. Mm-hmm. Cook's like I just that's always the lake. I'm all I'm all for experiential learning, but that's that is taking that way too far.

That's taking it to a place. Yeah, that's taking it to a real dark place. Well, he said once the murders gained attention, he had to convince upwards of 50 of his victims that he wasn't the green river killer. Well, yeah. And he said he did this because of course now, once it was starting to gain attention, these women were being like, or these girls were be-

Like, ooh, like I'm nervous. He said he did this by telling them the real killer must be a huge mussely guy because of how violent and hands-on the murders were. Wow, that's scary. And he said it was easy to convince them of this because he is about 510 and not like a muscley guy. He's not like a thick guy.

And 510 to me is like big. Like I'm like, whoa, you're tall. But I think you're small and stature. As you can say. You look shorter. And it makes sense that like to say like any average size person then five times like okay your average. Five ten is like not that crazy. And he said quote I look like an ordinary person. Here's a guy he's not really muscle bound. He doesn't look like a fighter. Just an

ordinary John and that was their downfall. My appearance was different than what I really was. Which is so pretty creepy So it's like, you're pretty creepy to hear him just be like, I knew that I didn't, that I just looked like some creepy John that they weren't gonna think twice about. But I didn't, and I used that. And I used that. Yeah, that was their downfall. Well, yeah, there is, there is a difference in his younger pictures.

One of his mug shots is from 1982. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah, and he's just kind of like a, you know, that 70s show. Like, the dad makes door kind of guy He's gross, but not like I'm scared of you gross Right, but the scary picture is the main one here from 2001 where he's just like Listen, this is like BTK. Oh Yeah, right what you said yeah, like it here a little bit. Yeah

Yeah, he has a vibe Bness Raider vibes maybe it's just the mustache and like that. Yeah, it's like the BDIs It is those BDIs he definitely and I do and I do kind of feel mad again Matt I got confused I thought you said BTS and I was like what are you talking about BTS? Those what lovely gentlemen What are you talking about BTS? Those what? Lovely gentleman. Why are you doing that?

Never. You saw my face. Did you see the horror on my face? I was like, you would like to see your face. I was like, excuse me. How dare you? You literally were like, BT. Why is that?

Because not with the BTS. I've crossed over. The BTS killings. But those are the cutest killings I've ever seen. Oh my god. So well choreographed. You have to just have some support of a each other. Well, in 2003 in a plea deal, he received 48 consecutive life sentences without the possibility

of parole. The plea deal also included him agreeing to reveal the locations of any bodies they couldn't find. An interesting note that a lot of people might not. Before Gary Ridjo was caught, Ted Bundy was in prison and he told authorities he was like, hey, come here real quick. And he was like, you should stake out some fresh grave sites that you find from the Green River Killer because he's gonna come back and try to have sex with this place. I speak from experience.

He literally was like, I think he's like me and I did that. So maybe you should go do that. So they did. They didn't catch him that way, but they ended up using it in his psychological profile that they did. We're not like, pat him on the back. We're tough.

But it's like, he was so gross and fucked up in such a weird, like, in an anomaly and a way. Game recognized, game. That's what it is. So he literally is like, I'm really fucked up. And I can tell you that that person is the same kind of fucked up that I am. So let me tell you what I would have done. Right.

Exactly. Which is strange. There's no honor amongst serial killers. No. No. No, no, no, no like, oh, we gotta look out for each other. It's like, no. If anything, there's competition in a strange way. I think so. So I think he was probably like,

he's a gin and on my number. Yeah, because at that point, he was the most prolific. Yeah. But it brings more attention to Ted Bundy, which I imagine is a certain element in here where, like some sort of attention- attention-needing.

Yeah, because they're all narcissists. So they're like, no, I'm better. Oh yeah, like Ted Bundy loved. Ted Bundy. That's he. No one loved Ted Bundy like Bundy loved Bundy loved Bundy loved Bundy loved Bundy loved. No one was his biggest fan of the videos. Right, ain't that the truth.

Yeah, he was gross. But either way, it's very interesting that he would come out and be like, because he was right that he was going back. So he did have that part of him correct. It's interesting. It's just so weird human patterns, right? Where you can, that's just a pattern that exists in people. Yeah, that's a psychology.

When one person has that pattern, they're like, oh, I recognize that. Here's what's going to happen next, you know? And a lot of the serial killing and just stuff I've read over the years has been kind of that need for fame and also that need to be seen just by anybody it's like people who feel invisible it's like this is your moment to be like original this is like your art and then to just find out that you're just another pattern it's like another broken pattern yeah it's so true sorry your fame wasn't really worth it wasn't sorry pattern but this piece of information

really got to meet you he became religious during his second marriage proselytizing door-to-door reading the Bible allowed it work at home and insisting that his wife follow the strict teachings of their past of their past are I mean Another way to control people though Yeah, yeah, and probably for him to look like more of like I'm a godfrey man. I'm going to church. I'm not playing River Killer. What couldn't be me. Yeah, couldn't be me. But he like I said before when I said he was so meticulous about not being caught. Right. He would leave gum wrappers and cigarettes at scenes because he was not a smoker and didn't chew gum. But he would just leave them there just to throw them off.

And it looks like something like a serial killer would do after killing someone like smoke. Well, they would grab that and be like, cool, we have evidence and it's not. That's fucked. Wow, I'm surprised he wasn't called like the gum wrapper killer. I know. You would think they'd go more onto this part.

With the green river. I mean, it's ominous, but it's like. Yeah, it is. Yeah, but I could have really backfired from it. Imagine if he was like, he was called like the bubble gum killer, he'd be like, oh man, I can't do that. I also would be scarier. The double mint killer. The double mint killer. It shouldn't be named in that because it's lame. The bubble yum killer. Yeah, right. The jolly rancher. Oh man. The bubble murderer.

Rancher's home. Humbah, bum, bum, bum, bum. Humbah, bum, bum. Humbah, bum, bum. Let's think. I became the cutest killer in history. He would also change the tires on his truck like, wow. All the time. So that the treads he would leave, like, leaving scenes

would be different every time. And they would not trace back to his truck. I hate when I'm like, wow, that's smart. I know. I hate when I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. It's, I hate when I'm like, whoa, wait, is your brain? I'm not like, who to, I'm just like, what the fuck? Yeah. I know, but it's like only thinking up to a certain point

because then they just, they're like, wow, so this guy has brand new tires on his truck. Let's check tire stores. Why does this guy have new tires every week? Yeah, weird. You kind of just put yourself into a worse state. That is true. You almost start calling attention to it at that point.

Yeah. Right. The most amazing part is this DNA situation because he is so meticulous about giving red herrings and literally covering his tracks. But then he just leaves like a just a big old clue. Like it's not even like, wait a second, we realize that the light bulb was from 1933 instead of from 1935.

And that couldn't be possible. It wasn't like, well, those moments were like, how SMD figures it all out. It's like literally like, oh. And they're literally like, oh, just get that sample we took from this. This part, oh, okay. We got it.

But it's caught up. Okay, great. Yeah, it's insane. That's why it's so weird to me that he just looks like, oh, very careless about that. But I think it was part of his like no, narcissism and like nothing's ever gonna happen that I would be caught.

So I'm gonna be skinny. Right, because DNA testing didn't happen until later. Yeah, way later. That's what it was. Yeah, it's like everyone who made porn in the 80s and thought it was never gonna come back to Haunt them because you have to go find on the

PHS like congratulations the internet you can find a Testing became really popular and started being introduced in court cases and stuff and everybody I remember everybody saying like oh No one's gonna get away with crime now Because all they have to do but then you just get so much more creative about it You know and now there's cameras everywhere. And now your phone tracks wherever you are, your car tracks wherever you are. So it seems like it'd be much harder,

but it really does lead to smarter criminals. I guess. I mean, they have to be like, learn how to get away. Yeah. But well done, guys. Well done criminals. You're doing great out there.

Thanks so much. Keep on keeping on, I guess. I'm proud of y'all. Well, and he might have killed people up to like 2000. Yeah. Because he was arrested in 2001 and they said he could have sold in the 90s and everything. So Wendy and A was a thing. He could have still been up to him.

That's a not caring, which is gross. Yeah. But the song Deep Red Bells is written to, like, the song is supposed to be singing to one of his victims. That's some eerie. And it's not like one in particular, it's just too general. It was written before Ridgeway was arrested. So they didn't even know who he was yet, but they were just writing it for the Green River Killers victims. And the singer wrote, the news definitely made the distinction that these women were sex workers.

In fact, they didn't talk about them like they were women much at all, which made me feel really bad for the women. These women's lives just never seemed that important. They weren't really made that important on the news. It was all about fear. I guess this song is basically me thinking, what are their lives?

What would their families do? And in it, one of the lyrics in it that gave me chills, was she writes, when spread-cled fronds raise round your bones, who took the time to fold your clothes? And it's like her being like their people. Like someone took care of them. Someone took the time to take care of them at one point.

Like maybe think of them that way. And it's a little different. way. And the family's parents and everything. Yeah. And also, I think that he was arrested, not very long after the song was released, like maybe a couple of weeks, maybe a few days. And she said, Neko case, is it Neko case or Neko case? Neko case, right?

I think it's Neko. Well, we're about to find out. That's what I think I was just gonna find out. Yeah. We'll find out. Alexa pronounced it Neko. Oh, Neko case what I think someone was just gonna find out. We'll find out. But Alexa pronounced it Nico. Nico Kase. Well, Nico Kase.

Neko Kase. Nico Kase. In Neko Kase. No, but she apparently, so he was arrested, like days, maybe a few weeks after the song came out and she apparently just burst into tears. Because she said that a weight was lifted off her shoulders and she was able to start a new chapter of her life.

And I remember when I read it, I didn't disregard it, but I was like, wow, that seems sort of dramatic. But then I did not just centered around me, but my only friend of reference was that arson experience. And I can only imagine the low level stress for a year after year after year, how that really does, you'd away at you. And like when something like that is like, it is removed. I can totally imagine that being a new chapter of your life starting up.

Well, they wonder too if she probably thought she was going to get some kind of relief writing it. And then she felt somewhat relieved. And then when he was caught, she was like, oh, this is what relief feels like. I'm like, I'm here with the two. Yeah. I was gonna say that. The act of writing the song probably took her into that place.

Absolutely. And if she was just like, it was a thing in her life. Like probably like sitting there, writing the lyrics, thinking about it, she probably had to do research. And then she had to, the recording sessions, she was singing those lyrics over and over again. So she probably was like in that song and in that world so deeply at that moment. Yeah and just that lyric like when to spread old fronds rise around your bones. It's

like you're just picturing this woman like somebody's daughter like somebody who was somebody you know somebody who's somebody laying in a ditch somewhere alone turning into bones while like fronds raise around her because time is just by, and no one can find her. And to get to that point too, she obviously had to think about their final hours. Like, she had to do like, A, B, and C. Oh, of course. And I mean, just thinking about like,

we were just talking about the Moore's murders. Like, that was four episodes, so it was weeks of research. And I remember like, even John at one point, my husband was like, when is this over? Like, he was like, are you almost done with this case? Because I was like, John was like, that how about me? I was like, why don't I have to listen to this?

At night, I would literally be like, can I just tell you one more thing? And he was like, please stop. Like, I can't do things like, I don't mind. I can't have this just on me. I need to tell you about it. I would say that was probably one of the most haunting cases we've ever done. It was one of the heaviest. Because we usually don't do chill, like cases that were the victims are children. Yeah. It was one of the heavy. Because we usually don't do childlike cases that were the victims

are children. Yeah. And that one. Just. Yeah. So it's like writing a song. I feel like it's such an emotional thing. I imagine.

I've never written one, but I feel like it is. So having to go deep into something like that on top of it must be insane. Yeah, where she's like in the car on the way to be murdered and all of that. And you should say that. But that's a whole, you know, that's a whole thing, a murder ballad. Yeah.

It's been around forever. I know. There's some really crazy ones. It's crazy. I was going to say too, thinking about somebody listening to that song and then becoming, obviously, so it was a few weeks before he was found. But before you had said that, I was

picturing hearing that song and listening to it and then ending up being one of the victims and realizing in that moment. Yeah. Because that's happened before where I think we did like the Willie Picton case. He was a serial killer in Canada and he really, he like attacked sex workers and indigenous women. And a lot of them knew about this serial killer that was killing one of their own and their friends and family. And they'd be saying it, like, I don't want to be the next one. I don't want to be the next one.

And some of them became the next one. And it was like, oh, that just brings it to such like a visceral place. Like, just ugh. Yeah, when you know, when you kind of feared it was coming in the end of the tear. Oh, you're just living your worst nightmare. Yeah. Totally. So. Oh my god living your worst nightmare. Yeah. Totally. So, oh my god. That was that. So many people do a part two of these fun things. Please don't.

Please don't. More murder-ballot scene. We'll bring that Fed and Ronnie and make him sit through this again. More watch with this. No, this was this was great. I mean it's really cool to be to talk about something different. Yeah. Me darn it. I know that's kind of what we keep making jokes the whole time, but that's just what we do. I mean we'd make them like literally if someone had a gun to our head, we'd be making a joke of course. Of course. We're sick like that. I do not love to keep from crying. You do. That's a thing. So what gallows humor is just get to say that. You do. That's a thing. So what gallows humor is, just get a say that. God.

But thank you guys so much for doing this with us. This was so much fun. And plug everyone else. Thank you for having us. So much for having us. It's been really great to meet you guys and talk to you in real life. It's so fun.

It's been a blast. Do you have anything coming up? Do you want to plug anything? You can plug away. You know, we just have our podcast, Watcher Crappens. It's available on all podcast platforms. And then, you know, we just have our podcasts watch or crap ends. Uh, it's available on all podcast platforms. And then, you know, we can follow us on social media on Instagram. We're at watch or crap ends and on Twitter.

We're at what crap ends. Uh, Ronnie is at Ronnie Karam on Twitter and Instagram. And I'm at Ben Mandelker on Twitter and Instagram. And, you know, at some point we're going to start doing some live shows. Again, uh, we used to tour very frequently pre pandemic. So, you know, keep some point we're gonna start doing some live shows again. We used to tour very frequently pre-pandemic. So, you know, keep an eye out for that. We have an announcement. We're starting up around when you guys are starting back up.

That looks like. When we hold our start up in the same city. Actually, we had tickets to your Wilbur show. We did. My husband got me them from like my birthday or something. Well, the Wilbur show isn't canceled. It's only postponed. So if that show is going to still happen.

Also, we can go to each other's locations. Yeah, we definitely have to try and meet up in the flesh, either on, that's also gross to say on the show. I mean, definitely the flesh. Like, I don't mean it in a murder anyway. But yeah, either if we're in the same town, or you know, will we come to your town or whatever, let's go hang out.

Let's do it. We have to. Yeah, we'll keep you updated as soon as we can say anything about when our well-bear show is rescheduled and when any of our shows are rescheduled, we'll absolutely, you know, we're going to shut the mouth out. Freak them out. It's like right when you think we started getting the schedule back together and then goes, well, it's insane.

There's also very interesting stuff. It was like, bitch, nevermind. Yep. Yeah, and so messes everything. I know and kids can't get vaccinated yet. So that's the reason why I like really on hinge, because all mine are under five. So there nowhere near the vaccination stage.

Oh my god. Yeah, that's a real problem. That's what we're hoping, but, ugh, yeah. So scary. It is very scary. I know. Well, health first before any live shows. Exactly. That's what we're hoping but yeah it's so scary. It is very scary. I know. I know. Well held first before any live shows. Exactly. That's what we're hoping. So until then we'll just be on the internet. Exactly. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We'll just be on the internet. We've done it, actually. We've done it. We've done it. It's not even to.

I love it. Amazing. All right, guys. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Bye. All right, guys, well, we hope you enjoyed that different episode.

We've definitely never talked about true, well, we've mentioned true crime songs before, but we've never actually gone into them. Yeah, I don't like a deep dive into it. Yeah, it was interesting to do. It's really crazy to see what people write about and to say the least. And Ronnie and Ben are so amazing.

They are so funny. I love them with like more than my entire heart. This could have been like 10 hours, and we would have been fun. Bligit. But I highly recommend again that you go listen to watch The Crappens if you love Bravo and if you love people that are really funny yeah but perfect pair yeah and in the meantime we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but that's a weird that you read a song but a murderer

because yeah like maybe don't do that don't do it yeah Yeah. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.