Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Ali Bastian

Episode Date: September 12, 2021

This week Ashley sits down with the amazing Ali Bastian to have an honest chat on weaning, dealing with meltdowns and when is the right time to leave your child?If you have a question for Ashley to answer, send it to [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

oh my goodness guys i have never been so excited to smell baby poo i realized that's probably the most rogue start to a podcast but since i spoke to connie last week we discovered that we had covid and i think i discovered that I had it in the most like mum stereotypically mum way possible so I love a good cleaning product I won't lie I've got Mrs Hinch's book I go through it every now and then I order all my bits I get really excited about it coming and one of my favorite products because of the smell by the way hashtag not an ad um is method products because of the smell by the way hashtag not an ad um is method that that rhubarb floor cleaner tell me you're in your 30s without telling me you're in your 30s that rhubarb floor cleaner is absolutely divine and I was mopping the floor and I realized I couldn't

smell it and I was actually about to complain to them like you have watered down you're cheapening your brand and I said to mom my mom was down staying I also gave her covid whoops but she is better we're all better and on the mend um god I feel like I've just given away a massive spoiler well actually you know I'm better because I'm doing this podcast anyway so I was mopping the floor and I was like mom can you smell that she was like yeah it smells lovely oh is that really amazing method floor cleaner and I was like I can't smell it at all so then I got all my cleaning products out another another good one is the flora I couldn't smell it so I was like oh my god you know when everything just makes sense obviously I spoke to you guys last week when I was in the depth of

alpha insomnia and I realized that I probably had COVID. I had no sense of taste, no sense of smell. So we got in the car, me, my mom, my dad, Tommy, ALF, and we went to a PCR testing center. Didn't test ALF. I feel like that would be a bit cruel on a child, wouldn't it? But anyway, we got back three positive COVID tests and it all made sense. So I actually felt so happy that I kind of stuck to my guns with sleep. But I'm not going to lie, it was so hard. Oh, my goodness. Like to think that I did a couple of weeks of waking up every half an hour.

I honestly can't even basically remember recording the podcast with Connie so thank you for your feedback on it because I was actually really nervous because obviously I know that sleep is such an emotive topic but all I will say is maybe I'll change my mind about sleep training and routines and definitely Connie has given me food for thought but I felt awful thinking Alf had Covid and I was so happy that I just gave him lots of cuddles and had him next to me and it actually worked really well for me selfishly when I got Covid because I did have a few days where I felt awful like I had the flu I felt run down I still don't feel 100% um but he's been co-sleeping with me in the bed and it's just made everything so much easier. He helps himself to my boob in the night. We have lots of cuddles and he has been

sleeping so well. So I just need to give this a bit of context. My version of so well is so different to my sister's version of so well. That's the beauty of children, isn't it? But my nephew Jasper my sister will be like oh my god you slept so badly last night he was up once in the night whereas for me Alf waking up twice in the night is an absolute treat so I just want to say for anyone going through the insomnia who's not quite ready or doesn't feel like sleep training is the path for them it gets better. Like, I can't believe it.

So I am going to start the COP transition. But for now, there's a whole new set of challenges. So the most 2021 reason to cancel plans ever, obviously getting COVID. So last week I had to miss my DJ gig. I was meant to be doing a big gig at a festival. That's fine. We also had to miss my DJ gig. I was meant to be doing a big gig at a festival. That's fine. We also had to cancel our first family holiday,

which is a little bit gutting. I'm not going to lie. We're meant to be in France right now with all of Tommy's family. It just would have been so nice. And selfishly, it would have meant that because Tommy's parents were there, we could have got a bit of a break.

But we are still in Englandland but the sun's shining so um you know every cloud and because we're no longer going away i have received an invite to the national tv awards so um it's a big it's a big event it's a big award ceremony for celebrating the best in tv i've been a few times before and it's amazing that I've been invited. It's on Thursday. So when you're listening to this, you'll know, did I go? Did I not go? Ooh, being invited, it would be the first time that I would have been away from Alf. And it just so happens that it falls on Alf's, Alf's? I should really know my own son's name. It just so happens that it falls on Alf's eight month birthday. So that's the ninth of,

well, God, I don't even know what month we're in. Mum life. The ninth of September is eighth month birthday. So it's very minor, isn't it? Like before you're in this position, when I used to hear my friends or other mums be like, oh my God, I don't know whether to leave my baby. I'd be like, oh, get over it. How hard can it be? Just leave them. Everyone's done it before. We were all left once. But now that I'm in that situation, do you know what? I never even thought I'd be that mom that

waited eight months. Like I used to always say like, if I have kids, I'm going to be going out. I'm going to be doing this. I'm going to be doing that. And I honestly don't know what to do. I'd be leaving him with Tommy. Tommy's as nervous as I am. He's obviously a boob man. He won't take the bottle. A lot of people are saying, just do it. Pull the plug, just go. You'll have a great time. And do you know what? I feel like if I went, I would love it. I feel I deserve it. But the other part of me is like, but he's only eight months old. You grew him for nine months inside you. Why don't you just wait a little bit longer? Like, you know, my maternal pull is like, I'm not quite ready. So I'm torn. And it's something so minor, but also selfish selfishly I kind of want to get dressed up you

know like have an excuse to put on some makeup wear a nice dress so I really want to hear from you when did you leave your babies for the first time and did you ever feel like this is the right time like am I waiting for something that might never happen like maybe you never feel it's the right time maybe you do just have to like go out and not worry about it and just see what happens so I would really love to hear from you on this um and one person I thought would be brilliant to help ease my mind is today's guest it's actress Bastien. I was a massive fan of her and she played Becca in Hollyoaks, but she's also played Sally Armstrong in The Bill, Becca Clark in Doctors. She's an amazing actress. She also introduced her first child, a little baby girl called Isla Rose,

what a beautiful name, into the world 17 months ago. So the 12th of March, 2020, just before the national lockdown. and Ali's spoken really openly and honestly about the anxiety she faced at being a new mum and suffering with postpartum anxiety and so I thought it'd be really good to have an open chat about her experience obviously she's a little bit further ahead so I'm so excited for this. ahead. So I'm so excited for this. I am so, so excited to be joined by Ali Bastian today. And Ali, if my teenage self knew that I would be doing a mum podcast with Becca Dean from Hollywood, I would never, ever have believed it. It's so funny how life turns out. But yeah, here we are. I love you. Thank you you what a nice intro that's

really kind by the way I did give you a much better intro before I spoke to you this is the uh this is the soft launch well I like this one this one was good I look forward to hearing the other do I get two then yeah you literally get two but um obviously you're uh probably your biggest role today is um of course being mum to Isla Rose who yeah she's 17 months now she's about to turn 18 months oh wow that's literally a year and a half that's amazing congratulations we are in full like toddler flight yeah I can't believe thank you and um it's gone I can't believe she's 18 months I can't believe I have a toddler it just has you know what I'm eight I'm 10 months behind you because Alf's about to be eight months. And

I've got to say, it goes so quickly. It does. I know everybody says it and everybody's like, oh, you know, just enjoy every minute and all of this mum stuff. And, you know, obviously it's, oh, well, I'm sure we're going to discuss it all today, aren't we? The good, the bad, the ugly. It's, you know, the most amazing life-changing thing I think becoming a parent I can safely say I have not enjoyed every minute there I'm not sure I think my rock bottom I just said to my mum um who's just arrived to like save the day and step in to look after her today and um I was like mum I think yesterday was my parenting ground zero. Like, I think I found it. Oh, no. Yeah, it was just full on.

I just went through all the feels and ended up in tears last night with my husband. But yeah, I mean, just challenges you in every conceivable way, I think. Do you know what? It's so interesting, isn't it? So this is actually our second attempt at recording because we were meant to do yesterday. And of course, Isla, do you call her Isla or Isla to do yesterday and of course Isla just do you call her Isla or Isla Rose? Isla just Isla. Isla just Isla. I don't know yeah just Isla. Just Isla had decided to have um the mother of all meltdowns and bless you you were you you were like

please can we can we change it but you really tried didn't you you were like okay give it five minutes give it half an hour and I think this is so interesting because what people don't see is even though this is an hour recording I feel like for anyone like I didn't realize before becoming a mum I would just see people coming out of the door without their kids or people turning up to work you don't realize like the admin and the life stress that goes into even just doing an hour absolutely I think I've heard it referred to as the mental load of like motherhood and um it yeah it's it's amazing it is phenomenal it's kind of all the the planning and the trying to make sure everything goes smoothly and inevitably it doesn't and then I just really

appreciate how that you were able to be flexible for me and I really value that um because I feel like flexible is what you have to be isn't it like as I've been recording now Tommy has silently come in and taken a breastfeeding sleepy baby away that's amazing ninja do you find um is Isla kind of do you find that she's having more sort of tantrums as she gets i hate the word tantrum because actually it's it's it's kind of like a really negative thing whereas actually they're just like growing up and trying to figure out the world aren't they yeah kind of experience experiencing big emotions little people experiencing big emotions i think yeah it i think it started really when she was about a year old and has just been going.

I think yesterday was probably the biggest one ever. And I don't know if that was I'd been away. Well, not away, but I've been teaching this weekend at film school. So I was at the house for two days. It's the first time I've gone back to teaching since having her. And so I think in retrospect, we just hadn't got back in gear again before I was then like, right, now I'm going to do this, you know, do some work, but only this time I'll be in the house, but you can't, you know, be with me. So I was trying to, we had a babysitter who's

been with us, who's a friend of ours, who's, they've spent, you know, quite a lot of time together, just like, you know, times like this, when I've had little jobs to do that I can do from home um sometimes she'll come over and sit with Isla and she was just not having it um but yeah I think we hadn't got it sort of in the groove again the two of us it's like we had to I could I probably should have put a day between um having those days away working and then uh trying to do anything else I don't know that's what I put it down to. That's so sweet though because she just wanted her mummy didn't she you sent me a picture immediately after when you went downstairs. And she conked out and fell asleep in my arms I don't I think she was off colour as well but she yeah she just she always she's I'm still

breastfeeding and so I gave her a little breastfeed and then she basically she sucks her fingers as she puts her other hand down my top and then and that's kind of her I I am her pacifier really I think well not that I don't like that actually that way I've heard that it described like that and I don't know why I said that um I think but there's it's just comfort that's her comfort thing and um yeah that's what she needed in that moment so and it was interesting as well it was like as the as i felt the cortisol because i really think she'd got to that point where i never usually let it escalate like that um but i was sort of seeing in a way like i was

we were a bit testing the water whether dev who was sitting with her could settle her and um we thought we'll just i'll just let the situation breathe for a minute before i step back in and see if um she can you know calm her down but she just she was just turning herself inside out basically it wasn't it wasn't going to happen but um what so i think the cortisol by that point was just soaring and it just felt like there's no coming back from this point that we've got to um and as she sat in my arms and I felt her calm down, I felt myself calm down as well. And I just thought, God, we're so intrinsically linked. When your baby's under, your toddler's under that much stress, we're under that kind of stress as well. And it's

so much to contend with. So if I had actually pushed through and come on the podcast at that point, I don't know what you'd have had on your hands because I was in actually in full fight or flight myself as well do you know what this is so interesting because actually um the other day Tom was trying to I was in like the the midst of insomnia we obviously now know that Alf had Covid but he was distraught and Tom was trying to settle him and I was like give him to me it was like he was trying to be nice because he was distraught and Tom was trying to settle him. And I was like, give him to me. He was trying to be nice because he was trying to let me get to sleep. I'm so sorry. You guys have been through it. We're better now. And that's a, that's a great thing,

but it's so interesting because he took him downstairs and I was in the bedroom and I could hear Alf crying. And I, I'm, I would say I'm a very rational person. Like Tom and I have a really good relationship. We communicate really well. But because he took him away from me, I ran downstairs and I was like, give him to me, give him to me, give him to me. And Tom was like, you're actually scaring me. And it is weird because I feel like there's something really maternal in not being able to comfort your child when he needs it.

And it's actually so interesting because it kind of leads on perfectly to what I wanted to chat about today because I still haven't left Alf yet. I say still, but he's eight months and I feel like that's still really young. And I don't know, I'm really torn about when is the right time to leave. really torn about when is the right time to leave. And, you know, some, I appreciate that a lot of parents have to go back to work and they almost have this deadline, whether it feels right or not, they have to leave their, their child. And obviously you're a little bit further along with Isla and when was the first time that you left? Did it feel right? it feel right um yeah i really really recently um to be honest i think i think because of the you know year and a half we've all had um with lockdowns and everything it's been a totally different path perhaps to how it might have been um because you know our industry's been so on the

floor through all of this i wasn't rushed you know there wasn't work to be rushing back to um so uh the act the first time I went away to work so we've been doing like like sort of what we're doing now little bits and pieces at home so she's at home and you know like amazingly my mum comes up a day a week and my mother-in-law and father-in-law come once a week and um they have been since we were able to bubble they've been doing that and that's been an absolute lifeline so we've had this kind of support at home but in terms of actually going out into the world um it's actually only happened you know it's happened to be honest a lot later than i imagined it would have um so i went away uh to I got I did a worked on a BBC drama

last month and I'm amazing oh thank you very much and I had three days away and that was my first gig back and it was I was so mixed about it it's like on the one hand to be honest if she was how old would she have been then sort of 16 17 months months. I really needed that time. I needed to reclaim that part of myself and reconnect with what I do and with other creatives and all of that. And I had some sleep, which was amazing because I was in a hotel for a couple of nights. So on the one hand, I did feel really, really ready. And on the other hand, it was just tough because I don't know if we'd sort of prepped things with Isla as well as we could have. And David, although he held the fort and my husband absolutely brilliantly, they were, he was on his knees by the time I got back and no one had slept for three days. And it was all a bit of a mess.

No one had slept for three days and it was all a bit of a mess. And so it kind of encouraged us to regroup a bit in terms of how we're doing things with Isla. In what way? Well, I actually reached out at that point to the lovely Sarah Ockwell-Smith. I don't know if you've come across her. She's written a lot of books on gentle parenting and has a kind of gentle, holistic approach to sleep. books on gentle parenting and has a kind of gentle holistic approach to sleep and it's not not sleep training and um crying it out and that side of things has never felt quite right for us um so i spoke to her and i was like and her whole ethos is just about kind of optimizing things for the best kind of sleep you can have because sleep for us has been a big issue all the way through really um so yeah i don't know i'm really i feel like i'm rambling and i digress no this is honestly

it's absolutely fascinating because i feel like um i don't know why but i feel pressure that he should be number one sleeping that's i think a big topic I touched on last week. But his sleeping is actually better now that he's well again. But obviously, it's still very much co-sleeping, which I think is for me as much as for him. But also, I suddenly feel this pressure that I should be getting back to myself and I should be being able to go to things without him. And I don't know if that's because I worry about my career if I don't, or if it's because I feel that society expects, I feel like you get the kind of newborn phase where everyone's very like kind and understanding. And then you get to a point where people are a bit like,

well, you can't leave him. You can't even leave him for a couple of hours. What do you mean he won't take a bottle? Have you tried this bottle? Yeah. Oh God god i've tried every blinking bottle that exists like she's never taken i mean that is one thing i do feel like in retrospect if there were things from early on i do remember one of the health visitors i was one of the midwives saying to us early like you know um if you can give her a one bottle day, so she always has a bottle, it will really help you in the long run. And I kind of wish we'd stopped, we did for a bit,

and then she sort of didn't take one. And then I left it for a bit and thought, well, I'm here, you know, I'm happy to breastfeed. And we were in the flow by that point. And then when I was like, okay, now let's give her a bottle again, it just wasn't happening. And it never happened again. And I tried everything. So it is tricky with, I mean, I have to be honest, even with an 18-month-old, we still haven't, apart from these days I went to work where the wheels came off, I haven't gone out for the evening yet and let someone else put her down because I don't we're just not quite at that point yet where we're able to do that but we would really like to be able to

do that it's just I feed her to sleep and cuddle her to sleep and that's we're still in that groove so and I say still that's kind of been what's right for us I think. That's really interesting because I suppose we're in where like very similar to you but I definitely felt like oh maybe by some point I'll feel like it's time but actually they're in your tummy for nine ten months like they are still so little and I do feel like a kind of pressure from the outside which by the way no one's actually said anything to me it's totally it's totally comes from me I guess as well because you see other mums who are like going out and about and stuff that you're like how are you doing this please maybe we need to get them on this and

tell us how I wonder if it is a bit of a lockdown thing because so Isla was born on the 12th of March 2020 and the national lockdown came on the 23rd of March 2020 so I feel like let's rewind like what was it like giving birth in that sort of uncertain time because I mean pregnancy wasn't even on the cards for me at that point which is funny because it happened a month later but I felt I mean I felt like oh my god I felt we were in a zombie apocalypse I was like is the world going to end like what the hell is going on like how did you get through those kind of early days or did you enjoy that first lockdown experience oh it's a real kind of mixed mixed bag I think when I was at the hospital we still it was like it when everyone knew it was coming

and it was you know sort of taking you know it was already in the UK and everything but it wasn't we wasn't really clear what was about to happen um so but I remember as we were leaving the midwife um said to us just go home and shut the door and don't see anybody just you know yeah just kind of warned us and at that point I don't think anyone had said anything even just yet about the potential for the UK going into lockdown but I think she saw it coming and she so she gave us this advice and we were like okay let's let's do that let's just go home regroup I think also part of our plan we'd always planned to have a little bit of time um just David and I and Isla uh you know, maybe the first week or two to find our

feet before we started seeing family. But then the lockdown happened and that was it. It was just kind of us in the flat with the little one finding our feet. I can't, it just feels like it's such a whirlwind when I look back. And in some ways it was kind of amazing because david um was working in the west end doing mama mia when everything happened and uh so he came home and he was on paternity and then he didn't end up going back to work because the west end went dark um and so he hasn't missed really a bath time or a bedtime since and uh yeah we had this time of figuring it out between us. How old was Isla when she finally met, say, her grandparents? I think she was around three months old.

So it was when bubbling came in, to be honest. We didn't really know about the concept of bubble. So I've got this photo of my mum through the window. It breaks my heart thinking about it with um and she'd written you know love you isla on a piece of paper and was standing outside the window and it's like that's as close as she got the beginning because we were all so afraid and nobody really knew what what it was and what we were dealing with um but yeah i think when they when the government introduced the idea of bubbles we were like okay right we need we really need to do this like we really needed some support and i think we

i definitely you know we missed out on those early moments with family um and everything i'm trying to say i'm trying to think back to how it was it's just kind of it's so weird saying like isn't it mad that last year we weren't allowed to go anywhere for christmas like my parents were flumblin and so they i think they were in the red bubble and then london became red and um it's just so weird like even though it was so recent it is all a bit of a blur now isn't it and yeah but all of this is in our vocabulary now like lockdowns and this and that and i don't know it's just if somebody had said a couple of all of this is in our vocabulary now, like lockdowns and this and that. I don't know. It's just if somebody had said a couple of years ago,

this is what was coming, I honestly wouldn't have, you know, I don't think any of us would have believed it. But yes. Do you know what was so interesting? Because Alf was born on the 9th of January 2021. And that was, I think, two or three days after the, was it the third lockdown? That winter lockdown.

Oh, God. So you were just going into a lockdown then. Yeah, but I felt like mentally it was very different to the first one because I think the first one we didn't quite know what was coming and how deadly it was going to be. Like, was it going to be this sort of zombie apocalypse? And then by the January one, we kind of knew by then that, yes, it's very important to take it seriously and protect vulnerable,

but like we would kind of be okay. Alf also didn't meet my parents until he was three months old. Oh, wow. So very similar. I remember people saying, oh, I feel really sorry for like lockdown mums and I feel really sorry for you, but a bit similar to you. I kind of enjoyed that and there was like definitely pros and cons and looking back I'm starting to think like actually is this why we have that sort of anxiety about leaving where actually mums by the way if you're

listening to this and you agree or disagree I'd love love to hear your perspectives because a lot of my friends gave birth after the lockdowns and they're already a bit more out and about and free and I wonder if it is because they didn't give birth in a lockdown you know even my sister she gave birth in the beginning of May I got the birthday wrong on I think the second episode and she I obviously forgot that she'd been listening and she was like by the way I can't believe you thought Jasper was born in April. And I was like, it's the 7th of May. No, March, 7th of May.

No, May, May, May. So I wonder if as much as it was amazing and a bit like you, you know, Tommy would normally have been going out to work, but he was working from home. So he was around and didn't miss all those kind of milestone moments that I guess normally the partner might miss.

But I wonder if this is why it's so difficult for us to leave them now. Or maybe, you know, mums who didn't go through lockdown, who are maybe a bit older, maybe this is just like the maternal pull. And actually, a lot of people have said to me, you know, they don't, they might not need you as much as you think you might be pleasantly surprised but in your experience it didn't go well when you left Isla in my experience no was not the finest hour but um we'll get there I think that we just probably both Isla and I just need a bit more of a graduated exposure to getting back out into the world. I just think it's been, it's like building confidence and getting, yeah, just getting back out there. And I think also we haven't put her into nursery. We probably won't do that until she's three, I don't think.

So some of those things that just would have automatically pushed things along a little bit haven't really happened because as well because of work and David and I having to almost completely recreate things and rethink how we run our lives I mean I don't know in some ways I think before we had her we were like oh yeah if one of us gets a tour we'll just all tour together as a family or we'll do this we do that we had all these sort of thoughts about how easy it would be and now we're in it we're like oh actually the sum of this you know we do we do have to adjust and and rethink things um so yeah i don't know we're constantly i feel like david and i just like constantly readjusting our sales and trying to work out how to navigate parenthood how to navigate our professional lives and how it all pieces together and we definitely I definitely don't feel like I have the answers but um it's just

you know adjusting accordingly I think to whatever's happening I think that's actually really nice advice especially for me because I I feel like we almost expect that by a certain time we have it all figured out, but actually they're constantly changing and evolving. So maybe parenthood is just constantly trying to figure it out because I guess they go through all these different phases and you never, just as you figure one thing out, something new arises. Yeah, absolutely. I think it really does. does yeah just when you think you're on top of it it's like ta-da oh this how do I how do we deal with this um yeah and also I think being um

self-employed as well as it is another path it's not you know that one thing's easier or harder than the other I you know but my only experience that I've always been self-employed so that in itself is like you know we don't have the same sort of you know it's not like there's automatically a maternity leave and then at this point baby goes to nursery go back to work and all of this happens we can kind of you know I guess the benefit of it is that you sort of design it yourself in a way and try and find a way to make life work. But it's just, yeah, there are just more possibilities, I think, in terms of how it's all going to piece together. Hiya, we're here to tell you about the Loose Lips podcast.

We, being me, Georgie Porter. And me, Sharon Carpenter. We're all about honesty and not holding back, especially when it comes to what's in the news. Plus, we answer your questions and we give you advice whenever it's asked for. Even when it's not asked for. We're all about what

you're really thinking and what you really want to know. You can expect to hear some of this. I have to say, come on people, we're getting a little too sensitive here. And also hear some of this i have to say come on people we're getting a little too sensitive here and also some of this she is plugging her entire career in that one moment that's the lose lips podcast out every tuesday and not forgetting extra lippy on fridays find it wherever you found this podcast we'll see you there yeah I guess it's interesting isn't it I guess it's like I suppose the grass isn't always greener on the other side because in some respects I'm self-employed as well and I feel really lucky

that I've been able to be like pretty flexible with work and for example when I went on the Jamie Vine show they let me bring out so I was able to breastfeed. I ended up. I saw that was brilliant. Actually, that wasn't planned at all. Like he was in the green room. But as you know, like a feeding baby, when he's got feed, he's got feed. And they were so kind and supportive. And they said, look, if he needs to feed, there's no pressure.

So I do feel lucky that I have been able to sort of, I mean, it's still been a hard juggle, but I've been able to juggle. Whereas my sister constantly reminds me, you know, most people are on maternity leave, so they don't have to do this juggle yet. So, and, you know, there is maternity pay and all of that. So I guess, you know, I do feel lucky, but sometimes I'm like, God, it must, I wonder what it would be like just to get a maternity leave. But but equally then I do feel like there is this huge pressure you know I've got friends going back to work and they've got this deadline in place and they might not feel ready and and it's interesting like even going back to you saying

that when you left her you wish that you'd almost done a bit more prep because if I go to the NTAs on Thursday we haven't prepped at all and all week Tommy's been like please can you express and like almost pretend you're not here every night so I can see how it goes oh my god we had the identical conversation David and I as well before I went to Cardiff and um he was and I did in the end lastminute.com like literally I put off expressing because I did it so much in the early days it'd end up binning loads because it'd been in the freezer for too long and then we're suddenly like shit now I've got to suddenly I'm at this point as well with breastfeeding where you sort of make as much as you need really so we're we're in a good you know we're sort of well in sync at this

point um and suddenly I was like trying to express as well put a freezer you know left a freezer full of milk and she didn't have any of it actually to be honest in the end he tried we tried everything and and David had been saying like can we just do it can I put her down for a few nights can we try and give her um milk in a cup or something like that and uh yeah just just didn't happen but then for your little ones that look because mine's over a year I think not having the breast milk for a couple of days it's you know not the end sorry if you can hear my dog barking in the background by the way um yeah I think uh is okay you know for for her to be without it but at this point more of a comfort than anything I think yeah because I'm I'm worried like so Tommy's like please today just

express and I can try tonight but I'm like but I know that he'll be upset and I'll be able to hear him and I'd rather it I'd almost rather it just be once you know I mean like and just be cold turkey that's what we did basically advertising every night this week yeah I thought exactly the same I really did and I'm oh sorry not the mic um I thought exactly the same. I really did. And I'm sorry, not the mic. I thought exactly the same way. And you know, there's no right or wrong. There really isn't. And it's just one night. And yeah, you're right. Like, why would you want to have a week of, you know, having an unsettled little one if it's just one evening? Are you close to making a decision about whether to go or not? I think I will. And do you know what? It's funny because I guess I've been a bit selfish because I've been like, how will he cope without me? And is it the right thing to go? Do I want to go?

Should I listen to my maternal instinct and just stay a bit longer? But equally, you know, and then the other part of me is like, it's really good for my career. It will be so nice for me. I do feel like I'm ready just to have a few drinks. Obviously, I'm breastfeeding, so it's in moderation anyway. But just have a few drinks and not have to think about Alf and even just like get my tan done and my nails done.

And I feel like, well, I say selfishly, but it's not selfish, is it? It's perfectly reasonable. No, really, really perfectly reasonable. And night out and to feel good and to feel like that Ashley who's not just the mum Ashley and I love mum Ashley and I enjoy and cherish mum Ashley but I didn't you know I that that person didn't exist until until eight months ago so I I just feel like I want to do it but then it's interesting because Tom has been like oh can it can you express can you express and I was like why I said to him the other day why are you putting pressure on me why

can't you just be supportive why can't you just say you should go I want you to go and he was like because I'm scared because I'm gonna have to deal with the meltdown and actually I hadn't I hadn't thought of it from Tom's perspective that of course it's like an intimidating thing to be let and he's an amazing dad but he was like he wants you he doesn't want me um so I was like oh yeah like I hadn't really thought about it from the fact that he's nervous as well well great communicator though that he was able to to say that because I think those are the situations where you can actually end up having a massive barney with your partner because nobody's owning the fact that actually this is quite scary. Doing this on my own for the night.

It's good on him just being able to say it. Yeah. Do you know what? When you said you were going to go, I felt really happy for you. My first instinct was like, oh, good. I'm glad you're going to do that. I'm glad you're going to have that night for yourself. I think it is really important.

have that night for yourself I think I think it is really important and in a way can kind of fill your cup in ways you won't even realize you know until afterwards but I think it's um you know it is it is good for us to do that to have those moments again like you said of not being mum for a minute I think just yeah stepping back into you know into your uh professional world and you'll probably run into old mates and things and see people you don't even realize are going to be there and all of that. And I think especially after lockdown, because I think, I don't know how you feel, but I almost wonder if I'm more isolated because we've had lockdown. And so, you know, you weren't seeing friends and everyone anyway. And then I kind of went straight into parenting, you know so I feel like yeah it will be it would actually just be so nice to go and see friends and not have to see friends in the context of Alf being there and kind of having to

make I mean I think as a lot of us will know if the baby's there as much as you can kind of chit chat your attention is always on them that's it I mean when we said this morning you know if uh because my mum was really stuck in traffic that if she got really stuck you know we could carry on and I'll have Isla on my knee and I'll try and do it and I was thinking I'd love to think I'll be able to do to be able to finish a sentence but I'm struggling enough as it is I'll have to let you know I feel like I keep changing my mind but I'll have to let you know what I decide to do and how it goes and it's actually been so nice to chat to you about it because I feel like it is reassuring to hear that you know even at 18 months like it's not just like a click and you're like yeah I've got that all figured out now that it almost like helps me take the pressure off

myself a little bit oh absolutely we are I don't think there is no I know what you mean I know exactly what you're saying about the you know feeling that pressure and seeing other people out and about and like you said I think well for starters everybody's paths different and everybody's baby's different you know some so my sister-in-law has um her little one my nephew and he's a really chilled little uh you know happy chappy um and I look she's always been really I don't know just so engaged with us so active she just I don't know her I do think even with not sleeping she's got I can see already just a busy little head like a busy brain and um I don't think she winds down as easily and so that's why it's been so helpful speaking to somebody about the sort of wind down ritual in the evening and how to play everything and to get a little bit of support.

And actually also just saying to somebody, help, I'm not coping. This is hard. I don't know what to do. And to actually get some advice, just even that in itself was really, really helpful. And then to have a bit of a plan that I felt like I could David and I could look at and go yeah this resonates with both of us we can we you know start to move towards night weaning you know gently um I love that and I love that it is gentle I'm definitely going to look her up oh do I think you'd really like her I really do um yeah yeah

she's ace but it's just really respectful. I'd say the key words when I think of Sarah and her writing and her advice is it's really respectful, really gentle, really holistic and just about optimizing the situation. And that's it really. I've got to ask as well. Where did the name Isla Rose come from? I think it's like one of my favorite. It's just such a beautiful name. You don't really hear um no do you know what it came really early so I was only about six weeks pregnant and we had a lodger at the time Hannah and I taught Hannah basically I

was so sick from early on in the pregnancy and Hannah had found me in a heap on the bathroom floor basically after throwing my guts up and I was OK, I think I better tell you I'm pregnant. And she was lovely and really excited. And that evening we were sat at the kitchen table and she was like, let's look at names. And I remember inwardly thinking, oh, God, I'm not ready. I'm not ready. I didn't feel as secure in the pregnancy yet. It still felt so early.

But then suddenly she was like reading out names and Isla was the first name she said and when she said it I was literally like oh I love that that feels right oh my god and that was it I was like that's her name like the first name that Hannah said the first name I heard um yeah and what it's so funny so basically I was so convinced that Alf was going to be a little girl so I was I was like looking up all the names I'm not going to say the name that we were going to go with but um just in case I ever end up having a girl um but one of the middle names you know how you go through and you pick the names you like or you think of names you like

and then you kind of go through your partner and it's like oh no my ex has called that or like oh somebody bullied me at school called that so we were going through all these different things and I said Rose as a middle name because I just think it's such a beautiful name and it just kind of works with names doesn't it kind of brings a really like beautiful I don't know I just love it I really I can't like Rose came to us quite late actually but because we were going to call her Isla Louise. And that was because, this probably sounds a bit self-centric, Louise is my middle name. It's my middle name as well.

Yeah, oh, is it? There you go. I don't want to have anyone of our kind of age. Yeah, there are a lot of Louises around. And I just had this thing. I had this weird thing when we were naming her that I didn't like um I didn't want to give her a name that was loaded with history as well that was like this was your great auntie's name or your you know grandparent or anything even though you know we've got some wonderful relatives between us I just wanted her to have a name that was hers

and then I got I sort of moved from that and then I was like also I want you to have a name that was hers. And then I got, I sort of moved from that. And then I was like, also, I want you to have a name that is mine because I think that she was going to be, you know, she was going to be Omani because that's David's surname. And so I was like, oh, maybe a bit of, you know, my identity as well. And then I went full circle on that was actually like, no, I don't actually need to do that or want to do that so uh and then Rose came to us and I was like oh that's I can't even remember I just I think we were lying in bed it was you know probably in the third trimester and we were lying in bed one night talking about names and going through it again and I was like oh what about Rose um yeah and and that just felt right I think it's so funny so when I said oh I love the name Rose and Tom was like oh

no we can't we can't call her Rose and I was like oh god have you got an ex called Rose as well and he was like no no no it just reminds me of the lady from the Titanic and I was like right and he was like yeah no so I was like sorry so what what's wrong with the girl in Titanic I was like that's so random like why what was wrong with her and in Titanic? I was like, that's so random. Like, what was wrong with her? And he was like, no, she was just old. And I was like, but she also was young. So anyway, that was actually vetoed.

So that was the end of that. I don't know what happens with names. I feel, I don't know. How did you come to call Alfalf? Again, I was so set on the fact that I was just convinced that we were having a girl and so I kind of got my name passed and Tommy has always dreamt of having a little boy called Alfie and his surname's Andrews and I think he likes the alliteration of Alfie Andrews and he'd said to me oh can we if we have a boy can we call him out like Alfie and I was like yeah yeah that's fine and number one because I do

think it's a really nice name I was like it's not gonna be a boy so my girl's name um and then the only thing was that I wanted him I wanted to pick the middle name and we were laughing because the names that I like are all quite I mean I'd say they're pretty hippie out there names so I'd be like what about Phoenix what about what about like Starlight and he was literally like no no no and then when I said Rivers I love the name Rivers and um there's this amazing documentary called Gleason and basically his son's called Rivers and it's all around the fact that everything starts from the river you know like civilization and it's a kind of source of life and strength and it's destructive but it's also essential and I'm not destructive that's one word but it's you know I just loved that I think such strong powerful name and Tom was like you know what I love that Alfie Rivers. That sounds so good it also sounds like a great it's a great stage name if he becomes an Al just Alfie Rivers that sounds so good it also sounds like a great it's a great stage name if he becomes an Al just Alfie Rivers I think it sounds fab I was like if he's like a barrister or a doctor

or something he can be um you know Alfie Andrews um but then if he's a rock star or I mean Tommy's dream is for him to be a footballer I have to keep being like you know that he might not like football let's not put him in the England squad yet like he might want to do ballet like there's so many things that he might want to do so let but it is a great it's a great rock star name as well if he wants to be alfie rivers you've totally covered your bases there i think for those names the only thing is i was like should we put alfred on the birth certificate because i i don't know i just kind of had in my mind that it's like a traditional name and then if he has a bit of a like midlife crisis he could change himself to like f or he could be Alfred but um Tom was like no no it's got to be Alfie it's got to be

Alfie and to be honest like that's I wasn't you know this I feel like there's battles that you can really have the battle like have the arguments over and some where I was like do I care um and actually I just think he's such an Alfie I couldn't imagine him now as being an Alfred it's funny how they sort of settle into their names I think or I don't know I don't know I feel like it's a bit magic around names I don't know what happened but I know Isla's definitely an Isla I feel like Isla's bring quite a lot of sass as well she's definitely bringing the sass I love that and also even the the word like the name's so, you know, like a rose is beautiful and soft, but it's also got thorns. So watch your back.

Yeah. So Ali, while I've got you here, we, I say we, that is very much the royal we, I get like lots of lovely feedback and questions. And this week I've got a question from Leesbop92 who reviewed us on Apple Podcast. So thank you for that. And I thought you'd be great to answer this question.

She says, I'm breastfeeding with my seven and a half month old and weirdly I'm scared to stop, although I'm not ready yet due to guilt, uncertainty on how to do it, fear of mastitis, etc. Do you have any advice? Are you still just breastfeeding? Have you looked at how to start? I haven't actually. That's why I think some of these questions I'm like, oh, I feel like I should have more of a frigging clue at this juncture. And I just don't with so much. I've just

kind of felt my way. But no, sometimes I've felt also myself recently, like I don't even know how to stop. I don't feel like, to be honest, there's masses of, I didn't feel like there was masses of support at the beginning with getting going, especially because of being in lockdown. But I called the National Breastfeeding Advice Line. It's the NHS helpline. Lots of times when I got going, and I think I'm due another phone call to talk about how to sort of wrap this up and to think about, I mean, as well for us,

I think it's going to be night weaning that will happen first and um when you say night weaning what do you mean so slowing down the night feeds to a halt hopefully um so but yeah just because i'm still feeding in the night so i don't know if this lady's um doing that but i have always just found it the quickest in it you know isla does wake up a lot at night and it's the quickest way to get her back to sleep and to settle her. So it's just felt really natural for me. But the broken nights, they do take their toll after a while. And I am starting to wonder, well, maybe if she is weaned from night feeds at some point, maybe that will actually help her through the night or at least mean that my husband can settle her. So I think we'll go at it that way and begin to think about

stopping that, which I feel anxious about as well, to be honest, because it's my way that I know I can soothe her easily. So I'm like, oh God, if we don't have that, what am I going to do? But I think it's going to be biting the bullet and doing that. And the other thing was when those, sorry, I am absolutely off on this job. And the logic was, at some point, we're going to have to stop and wean her off the breast. And maybe this was, it probably feels like quite mad logic now I'm talking about it. I thought maybe this is the time to do it. I'll be away. I won't be in another room crying because I can hear how distressed she is. And David will find his ways to look after her And, you know, David will find his ways to look after her and settle her. And but actually, I think if we do that, we need to do that at a time where he's really supported as well during the day. So that if he's having to, you know, to settle her through the night, he really is going to need a break in the day.

Whereas with him being on his own kind of solo parenting for three days, it just absolutely smashed him. on his own kind of solo parenting for three days it just absolutely smashed him so I think it's like it's got to be a team sport if you are if you do have support you know whether it's a partner or family member or whoever's around I think supporting you know each other through that change it is weird like thinking about it that there is just no information out there about stopping no I'm absolutely guessing here by the way i'm definitely going to phone somebody and get some advice so you think there isn't a free nhs help yeah if you google i wish i had it to hand i don't perhaps it's something you could add ashley um afterwards but if they're really good it's all volunteers and uh the hours are

really sensible that the time that it's running it, you know, it's like first thing in the morning till about nine o'clock at night. And they are so experienced and kind. And even if it's just at the early stages, it was just somebody saying, do you know what you're doing? All right, just keep going. Yes, that's normal. Yes, this is normal.

Which just put me into kind of instant, you know, I've cried down the phone on these support lines just like in the early days where we couldn't you know we weren't seeing health visitors we weren't seeing much of the midwives you know the first couple of weeks while I was trying to establish it and they were terrific so that's so good I didn't know about that that's amazing and it's something that I might look into as well it's such a good resource and definitely to ask about stopping I'm gonna yeah I'm this is great because it's such a good resource and definitely to ask about stopping i'm gonna yeah i'm this is great because it's reminding me that actually because sometimes i'm like oh i don't really know how to do this so i'll just leave things as they are for now but then you

know i've got something on the horizon as well we've got a family wedding coming up down in devon and potentially i was going to go by myself so to go away for a night again and I think this is part of me that's like oh this is so hard to deal with I'm just not going to for a bit and then we'll be at the last minute again and you know it'll be really difficult for everybody so I'm going to make that call as well to be honest and and get some advice um I would say just from my own experience like definitely don't don't feel guilt I'd say don't feel guilt and don't feel pressure. Like, you know, stop breastfeeding when it feels right to you. Because I think there is no right or wrong time, you know, like formula is a great option. And equally, if you're not ready to stop, don't stop. um and I would say uncertainty on how to do it like obviously this is something I need to look into at some point as well I kind of just go with the flow I've got no set plan as to when I have that also I have days where I'm like what I just need to stop breastfeeding now like I feel

really trapped and then I have other days where I'm like I never want this to end I love it so much I love the bond and I suppose I guess I would need to like express because I'd still want him to have breast milk but I would probably express and hope that he I mean he started to take it from a cup if I'm not around that's really good and then fear of mastitis I guess it's just like expressing when you feel that you need to to kind of like bring it down gently but in terms of advice like that is just me and my ramblings. And it's definitely not experts. I'm going to be advising you to use that NHS helpline. And I will try and find all the details. So thanks, Sally. Oh, yeah. I'm glad you picked up on the guilt part of that

question, though, because actually, I skimmed, I sort of tuned into the bit that felt the most, actually, the most relevant to me at the moment. And I think mum guilt is just I mean you could do another you know another hour on that one or at least it's huge isn't it so kind of worth um look at having a drill down into that and what that's about and whether you know whether stopping for you is what yeah that's definitely a good topic yeah definitely oh my god you know I don't even know where to start on that one. But I think for this lady just to be, you know. By the way, if anybody listening has advice, if you've stopped breastfeeding for whatever reason, please, please like send us the advice. And equally, if you have questions you want me to answer, get in touch by emailing askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. Or of course, if you leave a review on Apple Podcasts,

then I'll be able to see the questions. But also if you give a five-star rating, it really helps others to find us. And hopefully we can keep that number one spot on the Kids and Family podcast charts, which is just mind-blowing. I'm so happy for you. I saw that.

That's brilliant, Ashley. It's crazy. It's just mad. But yeah'm so happy for you. I saw that. That's brilliant, Ashley. It's crazy. It's just mad. But yeah, thank you for everyone for listening and for supporting Ashley James' First Time Mum, the parenting podcast. Ali, thank you so much for being such a brilliant guest. And we'll be back with another episode,

same time, same place next week. I think I should have said thank you then. And I didn't. I just went quiet. And I want to say thank you. Thank you. I I really enjoyed it it was so nice to talk to you like we've crossed paths loads along the years but never really sat down and had a good old natter so I feel like we've finally had that cup of tea.