Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Laura Wright

Episode Date: October 24, 2021

We chat breastfeeding, mummy clubs, parenting roles and the importance of giving yourself time to focus on you in with amazing soprano singer, presenter and host of the Mum Club East Sussex Laura Wright!If you have a question or a topic suggestion for Ashley, get in touch at [e-mail]--- A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm not proud of myself this week guys because I actually snapped at trolls do you know what I feel like as a mom there is so much judgment not just online but offline and it's weird isn't it like I don't really know where the judgment and competition comes from I don't know if it's because we're all so sleep deprived or that we all like know feel so in tune with our own babies that if someone does it differently or or if it's that we literally have no fucking idea what we're doing so then if someone's doing it differently we go into defense mode but I've just never experienced anything like it since I was a mum which is weird because I've also never experienced like a sisterhood and a community and a kind of like band of women like I have so it's

this it's this weird thing and obviously having a an online presence you're always going to get trolls and I feel like I'm pretty good I I've learned over the years. I am like the ultimate people pleaser. Like if someone doesn't like me, I used to literally, it used to haunt me. Even if I didn't particularly like that person, that didn't matter. skin in my time online. However, this week, I did snap. I fed the trolls. But do you know what it is? I feel like there's this constant narrative whenever I'm breastfeeding, which let's be honest, if you're feeding a child, regardless of how you do it, it's a lot, isn't it? You're constantly feeding. I don't know if breastfeeding you're feeding even more. I don't know. Maybe I've just got a hungry baby, but I feel like I'm feeding every couple of hours, 24 hours a day. Alf is obviously up. He's next to me. We co-sleep still. Do you know what? Hats off to anyone who doesn't co-sleep. I don't know how

you do it. Like if I wasn't right next to Alf with my boob ready to go in his mouth at any time of the night so I could kind of go straight back to sleep. I honestly don't like hats off to people who don't go sleep. But every time I breastfeed online, it's very, it's not me making a point, right? It's like I'm feeding my child. I've got both my hands free. I'm on my phone. Normally, if he's asleep, then I'm trying to work or tidy or wash up. You guys know what it's like I'm feeding my child I've got both my hands free I'm on my phone normally if he's asleep then I'm trying to work or tidy or wash up you guys know what it's like so every time I feel like I'm feeding there's always one or two comments and I've always let them slide but like this week there's just been like a flurry of them and I don't know if it's because I feel a bit down in dumps in general because of the weather because of the news I don't know but they like really got to me and I felt the need to like really like fight back and defend myself and do you know what it is I think it's like so disappointing when it comes from someone that is a female and that I see in their profile that they've got daughters because I'm like oh no like

number one you're like you're trolling you're trolling another woman like how would you feel if your daughters were being trolled and number two like I've got boobs like so some of the comments I get is like do you think that you would show yourself feeding out so much if it was a bottle and it's like I don't know know, probably if that was a time, like I've not thought about it because it's just my experience. Number two, like you're attention seeking because you have boo, like because you're breastfeeding. And do you know what?

I feel like ever since I was 13 years old, I was a 30 double G at the age of 13. And I've constantly had comments about my boobs, been told to change my outfits, not to distract the teachers. I remember the boys used to ping my bra strap and try to get it open. And obviously we wore, well, not obviously, but we wore white shirts. And it was terrifying. And if I'd scream, I'd always be the one in trouble for seeking attention.

So I feel like this experience isn't new to breastfeeding. It's like, it seems like an ongoing issue about boobs big boobs in society and I always find like the topic of like breastfeeding quite like a sensitive one I feel like I reference my sister all the time but obviously she's like the closest person in my life and is going through motherhood at the same time as me but she really really like tried to breastfeed for a good long time and now she's bottle feeding like that was the right decision for her and her baby like I'm not here to say you know to argue fed is best breast is best like honestly it's motherhood is so hard like whatever people choose to do as long as it's an empowered choice and it wasn't something that was taken away from them like it's no one's business but it makes me really like question

myself like am I oh am I showing breastfeeding too much but I genuinely don't like sit there and make a point um and then I think like oh maybe I should make a point to not go on stories or to not post if I'm breastfeeding but sometimes it's genuinely the only way I get to take a picture because if Alf's on the boob and then I know that I have to rush straight out after, or if I've booked a photographer for let's say an hour and Alf is feeding in 45 minutes of that time, I either take the pictures or I don't. So I don't know. I just thought it was quite an interesting topic of conversation even though it probably does sound like I've just come straight into a rant but um I I guess I I want to

like explore that kind of like judgment and comparison I I think I've mentioned on here before but I I was living in southwest London and we moved a few months ago to Essex, which by the way, it's just amazing. I'm so happy we made the move. I feel I was ready to move a bit further out of London. I love Essex. The people are so friendly. We're nearer to Tommy's parents. It's great. But I have felt quite lonely with the move because a lot of my friends are still on the other side of London. And I feel like I look forward to making friends here because I know it's such a sociable, happy place. I guess my world is currently very, very much about being a mum and very much around Alf because

he's not at nursery, he's not at school. So it does feel like my world has been consumed by Alf that sometimes I genuinely don't know if I have anything else to talk about anymore. I felt like before I was a mom, I was so judgmental of people who just talk about their kids and I'd be like, oh my God, if I'm a mom, I will not just talk about my kid. And now I'm like, I have nothing else. I have nothing else to talk about. But it means that when I go to classes and all of these things,

the topic of conversation is kind of always around babies and I'm guilty of it as well. I'll be like, oh, how old is he? Or how old is she? And oh, wow, they're crawling. That's amazing. And I do feel like there is a sort of like judgment over your child's development stage. Cause I don't really know, you know, what kids are meant to be doing by what age. Cause I don't really believe in it. I feel like they just all develop in their own time. But sometimes I come away like, oh God, should Alf be crawling? Is he lazy? I was a lockdown mum with only Alf to draw a comparison from, feeling like my child was like, you know, the next Olympic athlete. And now I'm like,

oh my God, he doesn't even, doesn't even crawl, what? So I have a brilliant guest today who is slightly further ahead in the mum timeline to me. Her daughter Ottilie is almost two and she's someone I've known for a while from pre-mum days. She is an English soprano, a classical popular crossover singer who performs classical and operatic music popular songs musical theatre and folk songs and interestingly she also hosts the mum club east suffolk which connects women who happen to have children so i just thought she'd be such a brilliant guest for today. It is the amazing Laura Wright. Laura, thank you so much for coming on the podcast to chat to us. Thank you for having me. It's so nice to hear your voice and have a catch up.

I know it's nice to be able to like catch up even if it's this way. Yeah, I think we've all got quite used to it haven't we in recent months so it feels quite normal now yeah and do you know what it is I feel like sometimes you forget to actually properly catch up because you follow each other's lives on online whether that's you know on Facebook or Instagram or whatever it might be yeah completely and I think you also people that I've been working with over the last two years who I haven't actually met I then meet in person for the first time and I feel like I do know them. But you're right, you can't ever beat that face to face, getting to know someone or having a proper catch up where you just waffle away and get to know each other all over again, I feel like. I feel like getting to know someone is quite a good starting point for the conversation. quite a good um quite a good starting point for the conversation did you find that your circles changed much when you first had otterly and how are you finding it now that you've just moved

house like have you found it easy to meet other people and are they kind of i was gonna say just parents but obviously we are so much more than just parents or um yeah have you yeah have you have you managed to kind of like branch out and feel a bit less lonely in your new place yeah I think when I had Otterley she arrived um three weeks early and so we spent a little bit of time in hospital she was jaundiced and um actually I was quite grateful for that because it almost gave me time where there were a lot of midwives around a lot of other new brand new mums, all there for different reasons, but gave me a little bit of a chance to get used to, you know, how my new life was going to be and what changed and what was going on with my body,

most of all, I think. And then when I started settling in at home, yeah, I think actually my social circles just disappeared a bit. I always had one friend of mine, Liz, who's, you know, my best friend and I, our voice notes are now at the length where it's just quite ridiculous. Because we, we talk so much. But I also thank, you know, thank WhatsApp for voice notes, because I feel like she was my kind of shining light in all of that. And I think you do find your people when you have any huge change in life, you know, in this instance, becoming a mum. I just found her completely free of judgment and opinion. And that's what I wanted to find, because I wanted to be able to talk openly about what I felt and how I was feeling and what was going on. And to be able to ask all those questions,

but without having to feel that I was fending off thousands of opinions from other people. So I think I actually almost deliberately, but without knowing it kind of decreased my social circles, which I think then over time, as you say, having moved house actually then does isolate you. And you realize actually you need to, I felt, you know, I needed to actually push myself out of my comfort zone and to socialize again, not just for me, but for Otterley. I think every stage that I've been through of being a mom so far is vastly different. And there are different priorities and different transitions that you go through. So I think it's just such a learning curve all the time. Do you know what? It's interesting, isn't it? Because kind of what you were saying, it's it's just such a learning curve all the time do you know what it's interesting isn't it because kind of what you were saying it's so great to have people who are sort of going through the

same experiences at the same time as you but then like it's that weird balance of like I obviously want some people to kind of understand what I'm going through without the kind of judgment and you know to be supportive and understanding of that but then I also want to be known for like Ashley and not just like the mum so it's trying to find that like that kind of like combination of whether it's people or person where life and conversation doesn't just revolve around the kids do you do you find that yeah completely and that's where for me and this is a sound like I'm speaking badly of NCT groups, but for me, we did that and we went along to our NCT group. But I found that as it got closer to the birth of my daughter, I was hearing about birth stories and so much information about their little ones that had just been born.

And I didn't actually, yeah, I didn't want to focus on that. I found it really overwhelming. I found it made me feel more anxious. So that's why I distanced myself from that. And of course, I knew that we would be moving as well. So those sort of new people that I'd met, I'd seen be moving away from and I felt it was a little bit of kind of a funny forced friendship. I know some people have a completely different experience. And actually, they're friends with their NCT, you their NCT group years down the line. But for me, that was not the case at all. And I just wanted sort of to be thrown lots of information and take that away from me.

And I think since we've moved, I've gone through massively trying to find myself again, whether that's just being able to talk about, you know, for me, I love talking about fashion with my mates. I love talking about music. That's my job. I love talking about gigs. And, and I don't want to certainly be talking about, you know, how many times my daughter's like done a wee that day or milk she's, you know, drinking or whatever it may be. Cause I just think we're at a point where we're so progressive as a society. There are so many different options. You're never going to see eye to eye with everyone, everyone has a different experience. So I think we need to be supportive of one another in that, but also just take the conversation away from that sometimes as well, if that makes sense. Yeah, it makes total sense. And do you know what was so interesting, because I actually wondered if I regretted not doing NCT

because during my pregnancy, I did find, I think a lot of my pregnancy I spent being like, I'm not going to be like the other moms. And, you know, since becoming a mom, I've realized that actually that was a lot of like my sort of deep rooted, like in a misogyny or judgment or whatever it is about what it is to be a mom. And, you know, I was like, I don't wear maternity clothes because I love fashion as if every single mom before me was like

not into fashion. And so I kind of like, kind of am now in this journey of motherhood where I'm like, oh my God, like moms are amazing, but also we need to be included in conversations around feminism and all of this stuff, because I because actually I've never felt so sort of part of a gendered role um it does you know like you were saying it society is so progressive but then it does also feel like a little bit dated in the expectations that we put on mothers and the way that we're expected to kind of what's the quote like work as if we don't have children and have children as if we don't work and I wonder if that's where a lot of like the judgment and comparison comes from with you know between mothers where or between mothers and non-mothers where I feel like men don't sit around comparing

and judging quite as much um so anyway sorry that was a bit of tangent but I chose not to do NCT um and then I wondered since because so many of my friends did meet friends there if maybe I wish I had but equally I felt like I was very much in like a very chilled out bubble in my pregnancy and you know it did kind of stress me out I went onto an app where it was to connect pregnant people and it was very much like my baby hasn't moved all day is that wrong is that normal and I found it very like stressful energy and I was like oh I think I need to protect myself from this actually because that's not I don't want to compare or judge or I kind of just want to do my own thing and enjoy the journey and I think it's unsaid as well isn't it

you know I feel very much the same as as you but I know that I know that some other mums will find you know great support and relief and um and confidence from having those conversations and and thinking oh somewhere somewhere out there someone feels exactly the same as me has gone through the same thing but I'm very similar to you in the sense that actually it gave me more anxiety than it did uh build confidence and give me support. And I just think that when it comes to finding those people, I think everyone's, as I said, everyone's journey is so unique. But also, you know, you're saying that you were in this lovely bubble of being pregnant, you were pregnant during lockdown as well, which no one's ever experienced before.

Actually, that is completely uncharted territory that a lot of new mums have been in. So I think also what's positive from that is that, you know, what you're doing now and talking about your experience is so good because this hasn't happened before. So it's really important to share your thoughts on that. And I think going back to the, you know, topic of NCT and I was saying to you earlier, you know, the breastfeeding clinic we went to, I found so so dated so I think it's great that we're having these conversations now in the hope that things can move forward and we can find better ways of interacting with other people and also what you said about well not other people other mums in particular but what you said about you know work um you know work as if you don't have children

etc that kind of thing. I think that's a really important topic, because I knew, from the moment that I was pregnant, I knew I wanted to go back to work as soon as I could, because I'm just, I'm very competitive and driven like that. And I also knew it would actually keep my balance in terms of how I was going to feel emotionally with having a child and those expectations that I set for myself, I knew I'd keep that balance in check if I knew that work for me was something that continued alongside. Some people feel very, very differently. But for me, that was really important. And I felt really guilty for feeling that way. I felt terrible for

going and doing a gig when my daughter was really young. But also in a similar vein, my job is very unique in that sense, similar to yours, where you're working for quite a short space of time. So you can build being a mum around that and you can try and have support with that. But I did feel a lot of guilt when it came to saying that I would be doing that. And was that guilt that you put on yourself or that other people put on you? I think I wanted to be ready. So I put that guilt on myself, because I don't know if I was ready when I did sort of step out and do my first kind of concert. And I mean, you know, for people who may be listening, don't know what I do, I sing and so I step up on stage and it is a very visual thing. So I think there's an added sort of pressure. And I certainly put a lot of that pressure on myself

anyway, before becoming a mum. And then I think I had to sort of get my head around what was going on with my body, how my voice felt, which obviously is, you know, very much based around your breathing and how your body is anyway. So I think there was a lot of different things going on there. But I would say that that was perhaps where I fell down a little bit, because I didn't have that support network. I'm the same, by the way, I wanted to get back to work. And I'm grateful. And you know, for all for as much as I sometimes think I would have loved to have had maternity leave my my sister always says you have to remember most of us have a maternity leave but I am actually like really grateful for work because

I think it's like saved me mentally but when you say like you're very competitive and so you wanted to go back is that because you felt like if you didn't go back straight away that someone would come and replace you yes absolutely and I think that is one of the things that is still there that should not be there in my industry. And I've heard so many musicians speak out about this recently, that they were terrified to say that they were expecting a child. They were terrified of losing work, even though, you know, nothing would be affected. It's, you know, we're talking even during pregnancy here. And it's, it does frustrate me that that's still the general opinion. No, I don't even think it's the music industry. I've spoken to friends who are like lawyers who

work in marketing, who work in the beauty industry. I think it's just across the board, which I think is why it's so great that people are pushing for flexible working, because that means that it's not just a woman, a mother issue. It will be, you know, parents in general and just everyone can have more flexibility. And so whilst that doesn't affect our industry, because, you know, our work's pretty flexible anyway, it means that dads will now be able to do the school pickups and drop-offs if they get to work flexibly around um around things like that so it's not just women who kind of are almost like suffer in their career for for having children yeah and the roles of a parent as well is so much more balanced and equal now I think anyway so so fathers or partners want to play that role more, I feel as well, you know, that's something that they feel they can contribute towards. So I think it's really

important that as you say, there'll be that flexibility moving forward. And I think there's, yeah, there's definitely this wave of people who are fighting for that. And I'm really grateful for that. Yeah. And I suppose that maybe that kind of negative stereotype of being a mom will shift as well. You know, one that I've admitted that I had myself, because I feel like very much, you know, sometimes when I am trying to get like DJ bookings, people have been like, oh, maybe you should post some more music stuff on your Instagram, because you do just look like a mom. And I'm like, but I am a mom, but I also have the same talent and experience that I had when I wasn't a mom.

And I think something that I've learned as well is you learn how to be incredibly efficient. And actually, the time that you do have when you are working, you work really fucking hard. Like you know that this is your time. It becomes so much more precious that you value the work you get to do. And I think you become a better person when you're working, because just as you said, you know, really grateful for that work. And you know that you've got to be so passionate about something for it to take you away from your child, especially at a young age, you've got to really want to do that. And so I think you learn to sort of compartmentalize, but also just be super efficient when it comes to your sort of working hours, whatever they may be. So I actually see it as, you know, some real positives from that. And I also just should say as well, I was exactly the same as you when you were like, you know, I'm not going to be like other moms it's so funny I think the tricks

that your mind plays on you where you just fall down those potholes of stigmas and expectations and things like that and and hindsight's a wonderful thing isn't it even being like oh my god look at those moms on their phones in the playground like when I have a kid I'm never going to be on my phone and it's like I'm gonna be on their phone because they're trying to like work they're trying to do they're trying to like book activities they're trying to book or like that yeah exactly they're trying to respond to an email yeah hello and welcome to A to Z of Men, a brand new podcast that helps explain, well, men. Each week, myself, Chris Brooks. And me, Scott Robinson.

We take on a different letter of the alphabet. What? In order? Yeah, in order. We will find a word that best describes men that starts with that letter. So it's basically like a guide? Like a guide, yeah, that's correct. This will really help me explain myself to the wife. We tackle topics such as mental

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podcasts spotify and a cast just search for a to z of men rewinding a little bit you mentioned that you did a breastfeeding um course or something and you felt it was very um dated do you mind me asking more about that yeah so part of the nct course there were two sort of um mornings if you like, where it was a breastfeeding clinic. And, you know, just if everyone was welcome to go along, whether that was part of their journey or not. And I think all of us go into having a child hoping to be able to have that experience of breastfeeding. But you never really know. Like I said, NCT for me was arming myself with as much information as possible so that I could go into childbirth and the fourth trimester and further on just knowing as much as I could. And yeah, and I kind of went along to this breastfeeding clinic and Harry and I were

there and I just, we sort of sat there with this, you know, it was like a VHS for goodness sake. It wasn't, it was a video like like that that's how old school we're talking and the approach just made it look so kind of uh so angelic and so kind of and I don't mean that in a necessarily in a bad way I just for me it just felt very dated and and the even the sort of language used was also still very much like so when this happens happens, you will, this will be your journey and you will then breastfeed. And it's like, well, hang on. I thought this was going to be a conversation about all the things that could come into this. And also more importantly, more than in fact, for me as well, now having had a child and the experience that I had more than the breastfeeding

for the baby, but more about what on earth goes on with your body when your milk comes in, for example. That was the worst day of my life emotionally, hormonally. I honestly will never forget that feeling of just not having an answer and not knowing what was going on and feeling like I was failing because I just didn't understand. And so I felt like that's what should have been talked about, as well as the physicalities of breastfeeding. Because regardless of if you do or you don't, your body hormonally will change and things will happen. So that for me was really frustrating. God, I remember the day my milk came in and it was so painful, like the blocked milk ducts. And obviously the frustration because you're trying to feed and the milk's not really there or you don't even know if you can breastfeed and you've

heard all these different stories and um Tommy's parents were with us because um you were at the time it was lockdown but you were allowed a child care bubble and I think they came on day three yes literally the day Tom's mum used to be a nurse and I was in so much pain that I was like please can you come into the bedroom with me and help and I was literally topless while she was like combing my boobs and Tom walked in being like what the hell is going on and I was like honestly I don't care I just feel so nice to have someone help me um and he's still every now and then it's like I can't believe my mum combed your boobs I was like it's the best day of my life yeah exactly and also do you know what is those funny in hindsight obviously you know those kind of bizarre funny memories that you'll laugh at together as well you know it

brings back that sort of memory and when you do have hardship or you do have a struggle or a shift or a change in life you know you think about those things and you think oh we we kind of got through all of that together I think that's always really nice as well I think childbirth as an experience for whoever you experience that with is something that just will last a lifetime. I don't actually know your feeding journey but did you breastfeed and if so for how long and the reason I asked the question is because I wanted to know if you ever experienced judgment around your feeding choices. Yeah, so I breastfed for six months. And that wasn't a choice that I've made, you know, in advance, I just got to the point where it wasn't, I don't think it was that enjoyable for me anymore, because I wanted

to be able to perhaps do a bit more with my singing, which meant I would be away from Otterley for a little bit too long to sort of carry on. And I'd been quite organised in terms of storage and working really hard. And it was quite hard work for me to breastfeed. But again, I think my competitive nature came into play there where I really wanted to do that. I think that was, again, a judgment I put on myself, an expectation. I definitely experienced some weird experiences of public breastfeeding where there were sort of some nods of disapproval. Really? Yeah, which really hurt me, actually. But also, I would quite often go

over and say, Can I help you? Is there anything that you want to say? What were the experiences, if you don't mind, because I actually haven't experienced public shame, shaming, but maybe that's because it was mainly lockdown. I think it was, you know, just during that process of being in, say, a cafe a public place that for some reason in their eyes wasn't deemed appropriate um which to me is just absolutely bizarre did they say anything or was it tuts or was it yeah tuts and staring and you know sort of nodding their heads and sort of you know like oh what what are you doing like why would you do that here you know and I think that's where I would, I'm someone who

would go over and say, you know, if you want to have a conversation, please come and talk to me, and I'll explain what's happening or, you know, what my feelings on this, because they're important as well as your, apparently your judgments. So yeah, and I wouldn't say it was really bad. But I would say that that definitely affected my confidence with it um yeah was it was it men was it women no men and women a lot of the time older older couples I found were you know in general it was never really anyone uh who was a similar age to myself at all um and in fact you know the looking at the opposite side of the spectrum um i remember one time like i had my i think i was like stuck in my top basically trying to get my boob out you know

how you can get tangled sometimes and um one lady a mom came over and helped me and and you know things like that as well i think a lot of the things that happened to me that built my confidence of knowing that there's this kind of motherhood and real support network were things that happen that are unsaid that their actions as opposed to words that's that is really that is really interesting and it is it's such a shame that something that should be like really normal is still kind of met with judgment and disapproval but also I find it as well that for people who don't breastfeed, you know, they, I feel like it's a really hard and controversial almost conversation to navigate because people do feel very strongly on one side or the other and people feel judgment

for either breastfeeding or for bottle feeding. And, you know, it would be so nice if people could just support each other's choices. You know, often there are very complicated reasons behind someone's choice or decision. And I think that it's very naive to judge those people without a better knowledge or understanding. And that's where I think I've learned that as I've got a little bit older, I think that we often you know face value it's very easy to make a snap judgment we do it all the time on social media we do all the time actually in real life as well and I just think we have to be careful about you know people have probably made a very measured and very thoughtful decision about breastfeeding

or choices when it comes to their child, because their child is their absolute world. So they're not going to take that decision lightly. And I respect anyone who, you know, makes that decision. It's their journey. And if they want to open up about that journey, I'm all ears, but I'm certainly not going to sit there and preach about it because, you know, I've had one child it's uh you know it's a drop in the ocean I think one of the beautiful things about my journey into motherhood is it's definitely made me less judgmental and more open-minded about everything in life because I feel like what you're saying is it's exactly spot on and actually a lot of the things that I used to

say like when I'm a mum if I'm a mum I'm not going to do this or if I'm a mum I would never do this I'm like oh my god like I wish I could like go back in time and just say to the old me like shut up like you're actually being really cringy like what or like you know some of the things I used to say to like my friends who were mums I'm like now I'm like oh my god I'm so sorry you must have thought I was like such a cringe bag being like when I'm a mum I'm never going to talk about, I'm not going to be one of those mums that just talks about my kids. And now I'm like, I have nothing else.

Like what else is there to talk about? Why do you think it is that there is kind of like so much judgment or criticism around motherhood when I don't feel like there's so much around between dads? I think it stems from traditional roles, doesn't it? And I also think that part of it is, you know, I think as women, we can be quite intimidating, can't we? Because we've sort of

shown that we can be mothers and we can be businesswomen. And we actually, as I've said, I feel that one actually can enhance the other as well. As you say, you've become more open to people's journeys and less judgmental. And, you know, you become a better person if you like. And I certainly feel the same. And I think that's where, you know, those are things that you can't experience until it happens to you. You know what though, Ashley, I think you're amazing for becoming a mum, being pregnant during lockdown. Like I can't genuinely, I can't imagine what that must have been like and times where you must have felt so lonely. And I think that what you've done on social media by being so open about everything is, it takes great strength of character.

And I think that it's amazing. And I think this is fantastic what you're doing as well. So, you know, from a pandemic has come something that you're doing that's really positive. Do you know what, when people say, oh, it must have been so hard to be a mum and pregnant in the pandemic. And obviously, I don't know any differently. So maybe if I'm ever in the situation again, then I can probably compare. But I actually, I took a lot of positives from it, like the fact that Tommy was working from home rather than in the office or, you know, that I feel like different and I feel a bit more lonely because I think I think you know take motherhood pregnancy all of that out of the equation every single person's life has changed so much with this pandemic and so kind of add motherhood pregnancy you know these

huge life-changing things anyway it does feel almost like I don't want to say catastrophic because that sounds just negative but what's the word what is the word colossal no do you know what I'm trying to say yeah yeah yeah absolutely everyone's been changed yeah everyone's been permanently changed and so I feel like it was more like post-lockdown or maybe once I've got to that four-month mark when I it kind of dawned on me like wow my life is so different and I probably did like miss out on the kind of you know the clubs that you go to where maybe you would like meet people organically who are kind of like your tribe but you know moving house and this is something I'd love to speak to you about because now I've started taking off to baby swim. I need to kind of find some other classes, but I feel like I go to those

things and it's about Alf. And even if I chat to people, it's about their kids. And I sort of feel I don't really pay much attention personally to milestones. You know,f has got four teeth i don't know if that's meant to be considered advanced or not he talks a tiny bit but not really words just you know babble but i don't know if that's good or bad for his age he doesn't walk he barely crawled like he doesn't crawl so and it's only when i go to those things it seems like all the topic of conversation is around the children and I think I'm guilty of that as well so it kind of as great as it is to go to those classes it feels very much that the mother or fathers are invisible because all of the energy is on the children.

So firstly what's important with what you said is that you know after that fourth trimester and then maybe a little bit further on like that when you said when that, you know, after that fourth trimester, and then maybe a little bit further on like that, when you said when Alpha is about four months, we don't have a timeline or a guidance from that point forwards. I think that's why it's sort of like, you know, you have your midwife visit, your health visitor, and that's like, right, off you go, we don't see you again until your child's two. So you sort of left your own devices then. And I think there's a very sort of clear plan for how things should progress up until that point and then it feels like you sort of drop off a cliff and and then you're like whoa okay my as you say my life has infinitely changed I'm a different person I don't

quite know who that person is and all of the focus is on my child and I'm just trying to flap around in the water to stay afloat I was going to say and I think as well like my my my friends that I had before um you know I was single for six years I was DJing I was traveling to say and I think as well like my my my friends that I had before um you know I was single for six years I was DJing I was traveling around the world and as much as I'm still that person like I can't do what I was doing before so you know a lot of my friends I love to death and they'll always be in my life but I feel like we're almost like slightly different spaces because they don't want to come and sit with Alf or, you know, like it's just different or they don't know what to ask and I don't know what to ask them. And, and so it's like, you need

that, like, you need that kind of balance of, I don't want to talk about my child, but I also don't know what else to talk about. And I can only leave him for like a couple of hours as well. And whether, and whether you want to or not, um, in terms of who you're talking to, actually having someone, so having someone who has had that experience is undoubtedly, it's an easier conversation. And I'm the same, you know, I have a couple of my friends who have had babies, a similar, in fact, one friend who's had a baby at similar age, a similar time to me, but the others when we do meet up, yeah, there's definitely this sort of cavernous, awkward space when it comes to, to you know what we need to talk about um is it you know who someone sort of

went home with last night or is it whether you know alf's got another tooth like you say it's weird and i think both you know both conversations can happen but i think that's where um i was saying to you i started i took on took on a franchise of the Mum Club. And I, after having very similar experience to what you've mentioned there, where I went to some lovely classes, don't get me wrong, like they're great. And what they're doing for your child is, you know, scientifically proven to be wonderful for their development. But you do just start talking about, you know, an Otterley didn't walk until she was quite a bit older than most others and it was sort of felt like you were in this um egg and spoon race with other parents you know from the moment that that you start talking from the moment they're born of who's going to achieve more and actually at those uh groups that I went to I was sort of sat there I remember I was doing row

row row the boat with her legs and I just felt like absolute shit. I felt awful about myself. I felt so, uh, I had no confidence. I felt like I had no self-worth and, um, all of the focus was on Otterley, which is what of course you want, but that doesn't mean that you don't deserve that time or focus yourself. And, um, the, the mum club is, I, so I host the events in Suffolk, And the mum club is, so I host the events in Suff and being able to have a conversation about life in general and the focus isn't on your child I love that even the fact it's a brunch so you know it's not going and playing in soft play with your baby it's like it's actually doing something that we all kind of enjoy having brunch or I guess like wine nights or whatever it is yeah wine club wine

club is wildly popular which obviously isn't a surprise it's taking that time for yourself and as cheesy as it sounds you need to do it and I like that it says um a community for strong independent women who happen to have children I love that it's so true, though. I think I needed that so much more than I realized. And I just thank the Lord for my friend who introduced me to it and made me experience that and realize that it, you know, that time for yourself and to focus on you is paramount to then becoming, I think, or being the best mum that you can be at the end of the day. I love that. And it's a nice, it's a nice kind of message to end on, like not to forget about yourself

and kind of looking after yourself. Before I let you go, before I let you go, every week I get lots of amazing questions from you guys who listen. And I picked one this week from Ellie, because I thought you might be able to help answer this Laura, because I know that like fitness and being active is a big part of your life. So Ellie got in touch via the email, which is askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com.

And she says, Hey, Ashley, love the podcast. Thanks for introducing me to the concept of mattress sense. Before having my baby, I was an avid runner she's three months old now and I'm still sore in places but I think I'm ready to get back to running do you think this is a good idea or should I wait until I'm not hurting at all do you have advice there yeah so I would say um I I went for a run around that time as well too Ellie Ellie. I went for a really short jog. I had very low minimal expectations of what to expect. And my pelvic floor definitely wasn't up to it. But I also felt like when I needed to stop and walk, I walked.

Obviously, if you've had medical advice that everything's fine and you've had your six- week check and all that stuff, that's obviously an important little milestone to tick off for you physically. But if running is something that you always did, your body will remember how to do that. And I would say just lower the expectations of what you did before and get started getting outside and getting fresh air, because it's just going to be the best thing for your mental health as well as your physical self. I've always loved running and I've made no secret of, you know, like my childbirth recovery. And the first time I went back to a run, I think I was fully expecting to go back after six weeks and I was like still bleeding after six weeks. But I remember saying,

I bought an out and about buggy and I was like, oh, now I can go running weeks. But I remember saying, I bought an out and about buggy and I was like, oh, now I can go running without. And I remember Martin, my pelvic health physio being like, please don't go for a run before you come and see me. And my pelvic floor was kind of still throbbing. And she was like, yeah, just be kind to yourself. Remember that the pelvic floor is literally the hammock. And whilst it's great like there are gentle ways to get back into it as well. So I feel like if it doesn't feel right, get checked or seek medical advice. But oh my God, it is so nice. To be honest, I think I've run twice since Alf came, but I do have the out and about pram and I do do I do need to get back into it but I think I'm

still a bit scared of my body yeah I think you're right though actually I think yeah it's important that if you can reach out to someone to check that and you know we don't really talk about it enough that the pelvic floor side of things regardless of what type of childbirth you've had as well maybe if you've had a c-section you know that can take a really long time for those muscles to heal, you know, it's cut through pure muscle that takes a long time for those things to come back. So I think also it's about what does it mean to you to do physical exercise for Ellie, obviously, it's really important to you, it's really kind of something that matters to you. And maybe that means that it affects your your mental health as well. And so I think finding a compromise, you know, in whichever way you can is really important. There's so much stuff online now to work out.

Someone I would say who is brilliant is Carly Rowena. She's a mom. She does. Yeah, she does like these free workout series, you can join in a zoom class class she's done one of our fitness events and she was very good with people who were you know quite new to fitness or quite early on post baby or pregnant so i think finding those people in your community that have had that experience the same as you is going to really help as well um and obviously wish you the best of luck well that's such good advice i'm gonna i'm gonna check out her workouts as well she's great she's brilliant good little nugget of wisdom and if you guys have any questions you want me and my guests to answer then and please keep getting in touch by emailing askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com or you can also leave it as a review on apple podcast and i have to say whenever i'm having a bad day i just go down the reviews so thank you so much for all the lovely messages the encouraging messages the five star ratings it really helps and if you

are enjoying it please hit the subscribe and follow button so you never miss an episode and obviously the reviews help others to find us as well so if you are enjoying it keep spreading the news tell another person and help us reach more people. But thank you for listening to me, Ashley James, first time mum and Laura, thank you for being such a brilliant guest and for giving up your precious time to chat to us as well.

Oh, thank you for having me, Ashley. It's been really, really good fun. I feel like it started as a rant and now you've made me feel really good. Always good. Thank you.