Newcomers: Scorsese, with Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus - The Return of the King - 1980 animated version (w/ Miel Bredouw)

Episode Date: November 3, 2020

The third and final pillar of the Lord of the Rings "animation trilogy" has been vanquished by Lauren and Nicole, with the aid of fellow Headgum podcaster, comedian and musician Miel Bredouw (Punch Up the Jam, Camp Unplug). The trio dive deep into this 1980 musical television film version of The Return of the King and decry the ugliness of all the characters (except Éowyn, who is super hot), note the ableism against Frodo masked under an awful folk tune, and ponder what it is about this franchise that keeps fans returning to these films time and time again. Okay, maybe not returning to this one specifically, but, yeah... Also, it finally happened, Lauren tells us how she recently dropped her first Lord of the Rings reference in real life! Are you happy now? She's very upset about this.Like the show? Rate Newcomers 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts and let us know what LOTR media you'd like the series to cover.Sources for this episode:The Gollum fishTrivia from IMDbTrivia from TvTropes.orgAdvertise on Newcomers via Gumball.fmSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a HeadGum Original. Power of good? Indeed, was there none left in all Middle-Earth with strength to aid our dying cause? The Lord of the Nazgûl, Sauron's second in command, a creature of the supernatural. And so no living man could hinder him or bring him harm in any way. He was invulnerable. Old fool, this is my hour. Do you not know death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain. Ooh-wee, we're back.

It's another episode of Newcomers. And we're watching more Lord of the Rings. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. I'm Nicole Bond. I'm Lauren Lapkus. And we've never seen Lord of the Rings. And that's a lie because now we've seen basically everything there is and more.

And we are sad now. It's getting it's it's truly incredible. We've watched the Hobbit trilogies. We've watched the three Lord of the Rings. We've now watched the Hobbit cartoon and now. We've watched the three Lord of the Rings. We've now watched the Hobbit cartoon and now three cartoon Lord of the Rings. We'll be revisiting

fanfics, spinoffs, video games in the weeks to come. And we, for this episode, we watched the animated Return of the King,

which is available on DVD and VHS. So good luck. And it comes individually or as a box trilogy along with the Rankin Bass What? Rankin? Is it Bass or Base when it's someone's name?

I guess Bass? Bass? I don't know. Yeah, Bass. Lance Bass. Right. Okay, thank you. That's perfect. Hobbit and Bakshi's Lord of the Rings. So it's unfortunately not available on streaming platforms, but I think they might be fortunate and i think it's okay and i think you guys will be okay if you don't see it and if you saw it as a kid or something maybe you'll know and you'll remember um last week we punished michelle collins with um the animated lord of

the rings and she's a fan of lord of the Rings. And she was like, this thing is not good. What are your thoughts real quick about Return of the King in cartoon form? So for me, I would say bad. I would agree. And yes, and that bad too. Very bad. Like fucking Biblo is back. I was like, he's not supposed to be here.

He's even older. What the fuck? And then I looked away for a minute and then I came back and they were babies like Muppet babies. Remember that part? Uh huh. I truly. And then the songs I was like,

look, these songs I listened to like Jim Croce and I like like seventies folk music. This is, this is annoying. Yeah. The songs are, they bother me. They were bad music. This is this is annoying. Yeah. The songs are they bother me. They were bad songs.

There was no bops. I don't want to dance. They were lulling me to sleep. And I had to like open my eyes and be like, you must keep watching so you can talk about it later. Oh, boy. Oh, boy. Well, I mean, I think we could go on and on about our negative feelings, but I really I'm hoping our guests didn't hate it as much as we did because we just truly we need a

win here. No pressure. But we're so excited for our guest today. Miel Bredo. Miel is a comedian, podcaster and musician, and she's a fellow HeadGum podcaster who hosts the pop song revision show, Punch Up the Jam. And she stars in the TV comedy series, Camp Unplugged, and just released her debut music album,

Tourist Season, this past July. So go check that out and welcome Mielle. Hi, thanks for having me. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for watching this. It was honestly not a problem i was um that's so good did you like it that's so good to hear like is a strong word okay did you tolerate it um a couple of the songs are stuck in my head so oh i think that's a positive. When you go on an empty forest. This man has the tightest vibrato I've ever heard.

It was nice. He's like on a massage chair the entire movie. Totally. Have you guys seen it before? No, you haven't seen any of this. That's the whole point of the podcast, right? No, I've never seen it. I didn't even know it existed until we started watching Lord of the Rings. I was like, so not only is there a live action one that's a thousand hours long,

there's also cartoon ones that are all fucked up and weird. And their skin tone is like somewhere between mud and jaundice. It's so strange. What is that crayon called? Everyone was very sick looking. Have you seen this before? Like as a kid? Very, very like bits and pieces in my head because I was very young and it was probably just on in the background. But Gollum, I very much remember that Shape of Water prequel motherfucker. I didn't realize I remembered it until I was watching it. And then some of the tunes too, like the orcs have a song, which of all the characters to have a song, I think orcs are the worst ones.

No. Why would they be joyfully singing about being literally whipped? I don't know, but that's sometimes you have to find the joy in being whipped. Okay. I don't know. I feel like that golem was like oddly not offensive to me. Like he was kind of just like, eh.

Because we've seen some of the ugliest golems at this point. Yeah, this golem was kind of cute. Which one was your ugliest? I think the live action golem is maybe the worst with his six strands of hair and just. It's like, oh, my God, can you get a hobby? Yeah, I mean, I was a little let down. I feel like tonally there was some serious miscommunications between every person that worked on this.

Also, Casey Kasem voicing Mary wasary was very weird oh i didn't clock that i saw his name in the opening and i was like what is happening this is so 70s to be like that's good voiceover casting he does a lot of radio and also like sam is randomly british and no one else is i didn't even put that i didn't realize no i didn't i was so upset watching is. I didn't even put that. I didn't realize. No, I didn't. I was so upset watching this that I didn't clock any of these things. Did you guys do you happen to recall when Casey Kasem was on Stay by the Bell? No, I feel like I do. Was there like some sort of dance?

Yes. Like the radio content dance contest. Did he play himself? I think he did um yeah but god i i just always love that show because i feel like when i watch it now i just think about how it was written by people who were born in the 50s and so like they like really love that era and so they're like casey case i'm like no one would care. But by the way, the new Save the Bell trailer looks so good. And Tracy Wigfield wrote it.

Really great. Oh my God, it looks good. It looks like funny and smart and interesting. So I'm really excited. I'm excited. Also, so I was watching the trailer last night. Then I went on IMDb and I didn't realize for how few years Save the Bell was actually on. Like the original one was not on for that long.

The new class was on for a very long time wow and that one was worse it was very bad and then the college years only lasted for a year i couldn't believe it i was like is my childhood a lie the college years is really worth revisiting i kind of feel like that's the direction lord of the rings should have gone like i want to see like the the Rings should have gone. Like, I want to see, like, the... Oh, my God, yes. Right? Like, I don't need to see the same story over and over again told horribly each time. Like, I can read a book. But, like, that Stormtrooper adaptation they did with, like, the new Star Wars, you know, like, what happens when one defects?

Like, I want to see the Orc story. Oh, my God. I would love that. I feel like if we could do Gollum the college years, I feel like this would be, like... What was he into? Did he play baseball? Did he meet anyone? Did he start to get more confidence?

Or like what? He's trying to find like college groups that are into rings. And everyone's like, you fucking freak. He's into smelting. Big time into smelting. Okay, where do we think he stands on the partisan divide here? Gollum? Well, he's all about the self, you know.

Young socialist, so no, no. I don't think so. He's trying to be more like his back. He's all about keeping his wealth. So I think maybe he's fiscally Republican and socially moderate. Maybe just socially, just so he can get through, like, interactions with friends at college. Is that what you were thinking? He's like, he'll just say things, but he doesn't really mean it.

He kind of vibes in so. Yeah, like he'll wear the mask because he's like, I don't want to be prosecuted. Yeah, like let's not even start this conversation. Wait, Mielle, are you a fan of Lord of the Rings like do you love it do you hate it who's to say um it's complicated I do

I love it but it is a different type of love I grew up in like a secular household and Lord of the Rings was the closest thing to like a religious text we had growing up. We read it, my mom read it to us as kids, like as a bedtime story. She actually in the seventies made, handmade these maps, like exact recreations of all of Mordor and beyond out of leather and like hands. That's amazing.

I know they're crazy. And she made like seven of them and like distributed them. They're probably worth so much money now, but I grew up looking at them and thinking that was a map of the world. Like I very much thought all of these things were true. Cause I was like a little too young to get it. And at any point I was like, I hope I don't run into Shelob in these woods. Like I didn't really understand it wasn't reality.

Shelob. That's the spider, right? Yeah. Are you kidding? Oh, come on. You don't have a crush on Shelob? Well, it's Tony Shalhoub. It's Tony Shalhoub.

Yes. Tony Shalhoub. Thank you. Thank you, Lauren, for bringing it down to my level. Yeah. That's a name I couldn't pronounce. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's like, it is one of the most iconic stories I think of the last, I mean, since the Bible probably. So like I'm kind of into it for that reason. And I also think so many modern stories are directly or indirectly ripping it. So like, I love it for that reason. But the way people have interpreted the story and made things, I have a lot of issues with, of course. I mean, yeah.

I don't know why this had to be a musical. I'll say it. I'm brave enough to say it. Don't know why we needed tunes. No. Yeah. I didn't really like the music. I truly felt like it was just making the movie drag on. Yes. The music was bored of itself. Yes. It was like,

I'm trying to tell you. And it was like, oh my God, like get to the next thing. Like do it. Like it was like they would sing a song while then they're all sitting there and there was one point where like mary i think was like are we going to get to eat anytime soon or like whatever maybe he was casey casem so i didn't say like that but then they're

like just let him sing a song or whatever it was like move it along even the characters are annoyed that it's taking this long yes also like whoever wrote these tunes very much was on whatever rhyme zone was before the internet. Like every rhyme was so on the nose. It was like, the ring bearer cries, the ring wearer dies. And you're like, okay.

What school of songwriting did we go to? Well, speaking of the music, we've learned that many musicians have been inspired by the lore and imagery of Lord of the Rings, including Rush and Led Zeppelin. And even they sometimes name characters and locations in their lyrics. And last week, we learned that Mick Jagger desperately wanted to play the role of Frodo in the 1978 Lord of the Rings cartoon. What? What? Frodo in the 1978 Lord of the Rings cartoon.

What? We're wondering, as a musician and comedian, has the Lord of the Rings influenced your work at all? When I was a teenager, all I'd write songs about were ants and shit.

You know what I mean? In the woods, I just want I don't know, like pure evil. I've never named a song like The Eye of Sauron or some shit. Okay. Although I do want to hear that song. There is though. There is something like when it was the 70s, the lore that we had to go off of Lord of the Rings was like a very different type of nerdy than it is today. And that is a reason why I've really not been super vocal about being a kind of super fan

of Lord of the Rings is because I don't necessarily love the fan culture that's associated with it. Like, I used to follow this Tumblr, like when Tumblr first was invented, the only page I followed was a Lord of the Rings fan page. Wow. What did they post? Yeah. Like, was it like images they mostly were furious at sean astin is that his name i'm getting second guessing myself now there were two sean astin

and sean beam okay whatever um how much they hated his casting they were furious that he was and that was mostly yeah like it was like kind of pre-me memes about like we hate sean astin that's so funny that's like log into tumblr and like the only input you're getting is like this one guy in his dorm like hating this one actor yeah i mean i think it's pretty decent casting based on this cartoon not that that he looks like the cartoon, but like kind of. If you were, if you were casting solely based on the cartoons, I think they nailed it. But in my mind, like, yeah, I didn't expect anyone to be so, um, how do we say? I guess VJ-esque, everyone's voice, even Gandalf was like like the hobbits were going to eisengard and you're

like okay well everyone had to compete with casey casem so they were like what's been on our best announcer voice i gotta say lord of the nazgul him being just eyes and a crown i couldn't stop laughing he just turns invisible this is so silly And then when he dies, his clothes are left. I truly was just like, tee hee hee. I can't believe I'm watching this. And there was one woman in the entire film. And it is Eowyn at the very end. And she's so hot.

And I really wanted to see more of that type of drawing throughout. Because all of the men were so ugly. They were so ugly. They were so ugly. I hated every, everybody. Yeah, everyone was pretty tough looking. And then she came in and she's like the cover of like a bath salt bag. Like, do you remember from the 90s

those beautiful illustrated bath bags? It was stunning. She looks like Shira or Shira. Yes, yes, Shira. It was stunning. She looks like She-Ra. Yes. She-Ra. Also, Gandalf, Denethor, and Theoden look like

three versions of Santa. Like, one is like, good Santa. One is like, I've seen better days. And the other one's like, evil Santa who's like, a little thin and hungry. It's like Santas in different countries. They're like, actually, the Swedish believe he lived feeble.

And in Norway, he says, hyah, hyah, hyah, hyah. I also felt like they did Gandalf so dirty with his general persona and vibe. I don't know. Maybe I'm misremembering the books. I haven't read them in a long time. But he goes to flee Minas Tirith when like all is lost. He's like, yeah, fuck this. I think I'm going to go. And then Pippin's like, can I come? And he's like, yeah, hop on Shadowfax. Let's ride. I don't remember that part.

I mean, I couldn't tell you. I've never read the books. Well, we might, I'm hoping we don't get to that point. I've never read the books. Well, we might. I'm hoping we don't get to that point. I feel like some people are pushing for that. I'm praying we don't get to that part. Also, did you see on Twitter? People were like, please don't do Madea movies. Do Marvel. And I was like, so people don't want us to have fun.

We sounded excited to do Madea movies. And people were like, no. Literally, we were like oh my god that'd be so fun and everyone's like please don't whatever you do it's like wait do you understand we don't like this wait why are you guys doing lord of the rings then because because it's a franchise it's what they want it's because because and also because it is like it's kind of crazy we never saw it but like i feel like the marvel movies sean disson's really pushing for this too and he said there's 20 marvel movies and we could do 20 episodes and i mean which is

i do kind of bananas it's too much i see how perfect it is but it is so much it's so much and i mean it is a lot i've probably seen like two of them so i think i've seen ant-man i hate to say it but i've seen guardians of the Those two. Once you've already seen Lord of the Rings, you're going to watch Marvel and just be like, they're just trying to do Lord of the Rings. Honestly, I don't think so, because I don't think there's elves running around celebrating the centennial...

I don't know. What is it called? I mean, that's like Thor's whole deal. They're basically elves. Yeah. I mean, just tweak the details a little deal. They're basically elves. Yeah. It's like, I mean, just like tweak the details a little. It's the same thing. All right.

Helm's Deep was the one, the Infinity War. And then like Minas Tirith was like Endgame. It's all the same. Well, who's the golem of the Marvel Cinematic Universe? Obviously Loki. Come on. Fun fact. Who's a Loki? What's that?

Who's that? I'm ashamed of how much I actually do know about comic books, books, and video games because I don't feel like it's on brand with my personality, but unfortunately I do. Why do you know this? I don't know. Lauren, you don't ask people why they know things. At some point, Lord of the Rings was tight. Like, I will say, like,

I stand, like, you have, I'm not sure they aged well, but when they came out, my mom, I live on a tiny island, no real movie theater. So we had to drive. That's fascinating. What island? Orcas Island, Washington. Oh my God, I've been there. I've never been there. Oh my God, I've been there. I've never been there.

Oh my God, why were you there, Lauren? I was there for, it was a work thing. But yeah, there's a story I could tell, but it was beautiful. Oh my God. Well, we had to go to Seattle to see like the movie when it came out, right? So we're like in the theater opening night having to get a hotel room just so we can see it. I will say it was extremely difficult to get to Orcas Island.

It took me forever. And it was like planes, trains, automobiles, like fully long things. So that's smaller planes. That's intense. Oh, wow. Why didn't they have like a little movie theater with just like a projector or something?

We had the Seaview Theater. Sure, but they got the movies like a month and a half two months after they came out like if because it's so hard to get to the island i see i see but like i remember like even my mom like arwen when she conjures those horses in the water she just stood up in the theater and screamed, you go, girl! I started clapping over her. I like your mother. She's a perfect person. That's brilliant. I love that.

I really love this because on the last episode, I told a story of my mom standing up in a movie theater and screaming at a scary part. But it wasn't Lord of the Rings? No, no. It was a different movie, totally.

But she was just standing up, like, screaming. I just like our moms, like, standing up and having reactions to movies. they're not like they're the only people there and as a kid you found it embarrassing but as an adult you're like hell yeah mom yeah yeah i think it's fine i'm like that's cool honestly mom never did that my mom would only just pop her own popcorn and bring our own soda and little tupperware things i love that i would be so embarrassed.

But now I'm like, that's the way to do it. Yeah, she was right. Oh my God, you just saved like 40 bucks. Like, why would you not? Like, yes. I mean, how wild. She was right. Right?

Yeah. But as a kid, it was crazy. We used to sneak candy and stuff into and Cokes. And then it's like, you'd have to wait to open your Coke for like a big laugh or something. As if the ushers were going to like run in with a light and be like who opened a coke it always felt like that though like i would love for an usher to do that shine a light in my face and be like what are you doing like they give a shit they're just teenagers working for minimum

wage like they don't care i was in a theater once that started playing some sinister Rooney Mara movie that came out around the same time as Life of Pi. The opening credit sequence was blood pouring all over the counter and that movie started playing by accident in the theater full of children to see Life

of Pi. And it took them 20 minutes to refix it. You love to see it. You see it. They don't care. Oh my God. You're fine. They don't care. I saw. That's the fun of going to the movies.

Like, everything going wrong. I really miss it. Like, I think I saw Fellowship of the Ring. I think I saw it seven times in theaters. Seven times? Oh my God.

That's such dedication. What is three times seven? That's 21 hours of your life. did you did you see that fast math i was going like how do well how much was the ticket at the time so it was probably 12 times seven you're at a hundred dollars i spent a hundred dollars to see this movie and by the way nicole 21 hours is not nearly enough because i have re-watched it at least a dozen times since. I think I've probably spent a week of my life on these films. I am truly shocked by the veracity at which people love Lord of the Rings. Like to sit and watch a three hour movie more than one time is wild to me. But people love it like all the time,

all the time I'll sit and watch it. You know how people who are big time into Disneyland after their fourth or fifth visit, they're like, I don't go for the rides. I go for the ambiance. It's kind of the same thing with these movies. You just want to sink into the world, like Avatar style, Ferngully style.

You know what I mean? You want to be a part of this lore. That really made me miss Disneyland. No, it works for me. Well, should we jump into the Shirewire really quick? Let's jump right into it. There is a 100 million year old fish in Kerala named after a Lord of the Rings character. It looks like a dragon, swims like an eel, and has remained hidden for 100 million years until very recently.

After a social media post made a researcher in Kerala, which is a state on the southwestern Malabar coast of India, curious, a type of fish was discovered in the watery underground rocks of the state that scientists have named Gollum after the dark and conflicted character of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Enigmachana Gollum belonged...

There you go. Belongs to an old family of fish called dragon snakeheads, which retains its primitive characteristics after all these millennia. It's likely that Gollum would have remained unknown for longer without the power of social media. And at the beginning of 2018, Rajiv Raghavan, a fish researcher at Kerala University of Fisheries and Ocean Studies, saw a post on social media of a curious fish that a person found in a well in the backyard. And that's how they got this fish how and it looks like um well nicole do you want to describe it it looks like a dick t thank you lord knows what i love is this i'm sorry i'm not familiar with this segment is this fan fiction or this is true? This is true. This is our new segment. Real stuff that's out in the world.

That's Lord of the Rings-y. Yeah, this is a scaly dick. Did you say this fish is 100 million years old? Yeah, I really breezed through it. I breezed through it, but it's remained hidden for 100 million years. Wait, I'm sorry. A fish is alive for 100... This sounds wrong.

A fish is alive for 100 million years This sounds wrong. A fish is alive for a hundred million years. The species or this singular fish? The species. Oh, that's a relief. Okay. If you were to tell me. It's from an old family of fish. They have primitive characteristics, which is how I guess they were able to deduce that it was this old. The dick looking. It looks like a prehistoric dick it does look like a prehistoric dick i wonder if any cave ladies used it as a dilly doe just kidding um but like 100 million years is such a long time to be swimming can you

imagine i would i would just be like that would literally tired. That would literally be hell. Couldn't be us. Yes. No, no, we wouldn't do it. I definitely. Bless God for these legs. Bye, Petal. Never going back. Thank you. This is so wild.

Like, it's just so nuts that there's so many things in the ocean that we don't know. The ocean is terrifying. I think the ocean is so scary. That's why I feel like we should not be wasting our time with space. We need to figure out what's here first. That is such a good point. There's so much going on down there they haven't even categorized. And we're trying to go to the moon

where we already know there's nothing. I don't care about the moon. The moon is wet, to be fair. Wait, the moon's wet? Well, now I know it's wet. Oh. Everyone got a news alert that the moon's wet well now i know it's wet which you know oh yeah we just found out got a news alert that the moon was wet i feel left out i just got a text from nasa's like the moon's wet bye it literally just said moon's wet but i think if you can send that rocket that high

you can send one that low i want to see what's down there same who knows how many friends gollum's got in there you know what i mean i would like so many friends oh my god yeah well that he can't be the only thing from 100 million years ago crazy our like the planet is nuts space is nuts and we're just like arguing over politics like it's so crazy like if you think about how the volume of the universe well that's what i hate that's no that's what i hate so much because i just think yes wait we could all just be having like a good time and then instead people do like really horrible things to each other when like we don't need to at all and everything's fine and rich people would still be really rich and poor people would still be poor and like but we'd all be like happier and then whatever

right guys it kind of sounds like you're talking about the central arc of lord of the rings right now oh sorry oh sorry to bring it back it's like pretty similar themes here i love how you're keeping us on task lauren and i were like oh we'll talk about anything else the moon's wet and you're like actually the lord of the wing rings is wet um the lord of the wingsings. Well, like, look, I would never have connected that to that story. If that is true, I had you watch 38 hours of it. Wait, should we take a break? Yeah. If you're wondering what a NordVPN is, I'll tell you.

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romeo mueller um directed by author arthur ran rankin jr and jules bass it was released on may 11th in 1980 okay so we have on good authority meal that you are a big fan of the 1977 film hey i bet made by the same producers production company and writer that worked on this film so how do these two films compare to you how do they stack up do we do we love them both well okay was there a separate lord of the rings cartoon made by the same animator or they went just hobbit to this yes there was a different guy ralph bakshi who did lord of the rings it was really weird it was it was very different it was more like trippy and like different mixed media sort of thing. Yeah.

And they did like live action stuff. They tried to cram all three books into just this one animated movie. Is that right? Yeah. But then it was I think it's supposed to be two movies because it ended before the ring went into the fire. Right. No.

Like with the with the with the lord of the rings one he thought he was gonna make a second one so that that movie cuts off this is just a separate entity of the story really or like okay so they just were like and this is just comparing that to the hobbit because the hobbit is a singular story like as a movie i can follow let's fuck up this dragon like that's pretty easy i got that but to be like let's do three incredibly dense novels as a quick movie half this movie is like gandalf telling you shit that's already happened and he's like yeah and then um by the way yeah like uh we got the ring bilbo and so then we took it and there was don't worry about that fellowship and um yeah and then i guess we

start here with we had we fucked with sheila for Yeah, and then now we're here at the Blackgate like what is happening? Yeah, so this one apparently is trying to pick up a little bit where the the Lord of the Rings one left off, even though it's a different filmmaker because they didn't get to make the second one, I guess. But it's still like it that is just like, wait, why would you do that? I feel like that's such a weird move. like that is just like, wait, why would you do that? I feel like that's such a weird move. Like if somebody made, I mean, that doesn't, that doesn't happen with anything. Like if somebody made the first part of something, you're like, I want to see what the end's like, I'm going to make it. And then like, you just do that. It's like, it's like someone was like super coked out and just wanted to write the one scene. Like, I think half this movie honestly is just Sam trying to get back to Frodo when he's been taken by the orcs and stripped of his mithril.

Like literally half the movie is just that scene. And it's like such a fleeting scene. So I really think someone just coked out of their mind. It was like, y'all want to see what that orc castle is about. Like let's focus on the stripped of his what? The mithril. Yeah.

Elvin, you know, metal cloak. He wears it's like lightweight and protects him from the cave troll. Yes. You remember! She does, she does. Let's walk through the plot and it'll start to be really clear as we get mad about it.

God, why are these all so long? Okay, so this is the plot. So the film begins with Bilbo Baggins celebrating his 129th birthday in Rivendell. When he notices that Frodo is missing a finger, he asks for an explanation and Gandalf introduces the minstrel of Gondor to recall the story of the One Ring going all the way back to when Bilbo found it in Gollum's cave many decades prior. And by the way, this

scene is so slow and it's the beginning of the movie and it's his birthday and he's like, it's my birthday. And we're like, go. Especially knowing there's like a musician sitting there waiting to sing his tune and he's like, Frodo of the Nine Fingers, not yet. Oh my god, yes. Frodo of the Nine Fingers, not yet.

Okay. A flashback begins with the ring sitting in Bag End. As the years pass, its power grows stronger and stronger. Gandalf takes notice of this and tells Frodo that the ring must be taken to Mordor and destroyed in the fires where it was wrought.

Should Frodo fail, all of Middle Earth will be ended by the ring's maker Sauron. Frodo and his companion Samwise depart for the Shire of Mordor. After many daring adventures, they reach Mordor's borders, only for Frodo to be captured and imprisoned in

Cintronella Ungol. I feel like wait, what was it? Mortar's Borders should be like a warm up for like theater. Mortar's Borders. Mortar's Borders. Red leather, yellow leather, Mortar's Borders.

Mortar's Borders. New York unique. New York unique. Mortar's Borders. Uniquely like a really evil boarding house. I'm here for it. Or it's like the evil version of Borders Bookstore. Rest in peace. I don't think they exist anymore. Oh my God.

That used to be fun to go there. I guess they still exist. Maybe I should frequent them more. I miss books. I forgot how to read. Yeah, me too. Sam, after trying and failing to infiltrate the tower, takes it upon himself to be ring bearer in Frodo's absence

and heads for Mount Doom. But he stopped when he feels the ring's weight growing on him and a strong temptation to claim it for himself almost overcomes him. He stops himself when he realizes that he already has everything he could ever want back home. Realizing he's not fit for the task, he makes his way back to Sirith Ungol to rescue Frodo.

After successfully infiltrating the tower and fighting his way to Frodo, Sam returns the ring to him and disguised as orcs, they managed to escape just as the tower collapses. That's so funny that he's like, wow, my friend's dead. That sucks. I'm going to keep going.

You'll see my guy. And then like only once he realizes he's too weak to carry the ring, he's like, I guess I'll go back. There was no emotion in this movie. I feel like I felt nothing. There was no stakes. It was just like these fucking bobbleheads bopping around, trying to get this ring. And like Sam always has this like voiceover for like what he's thinking, but no other character has that. Yeah. I mean,

this movie was just so fucking weird. And then I was like, it's so much different than the live action return of the king. It was very confusing for me. Well, and I think this is something that we're struggling with a little bit that like we now essentially know the story, but we're just rewatching it in all these different ways.

And it's like, oh my God, like who cares? You know what I mean? Also like they're betraying their own storyline. Like I don't remember this part that well, but in the movie we just watched, there's like this lit vial that Sam uses to break into Sirith Ungol or whatever. And like when he asks Frodo, what was that thing he's like can't

tell you or it won't work and it's just never addressed again and I'm like I'm pretty sure that's that thing that Galadriel gave him right and that's what like shines in the light when they're getting attacked by Shelob like that's the same thing or or not I don't know what it was I don't know well

meanwhile at the uh fucking Galondrable capital of Minas Trithith, Gandy and Pippin bear witness as the forces of Mordor prepare to attack the city. They turn to Denethor for help, trying to reassure him that thanks to the Red Arrow King F Fyodin, and the army of Rohan are on their way. But they are dismayed to discover that the steward has gone mad, referring to visions seen through a plantar, which is a seeing stone, of the West burning. He orders his own demise,

leaving Gandhi and Pippin to face the invasion with Gandhi beginning to lose hope. So, yeah, I remember this in the live action one. This is where Pippin's song happens. They cut Faramir from this whole movie. Yes, okay. Okay, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure. Because Faramir has to like, Faramir dies. No, he tries to kill Faramir, but then he dies.

Faramir's wounded protecting that town. I can't remember the name of that white town, like just in the fieldir, but then he dies. Faramir's wounded protecting that town. I can't remember the name of that white town, like just in the field. And so then they retreat, he's retrieved. He's like badly wounded, but definitely still alive.

And Denethor is like, nah, he's dead. And both my sons are dead now. Cause he's also done for a mirror's dad who dies in the fellowship, protecting the little hobbits. So he's like, well, I guess we all better die now because there's no more steward of Gondor.

And I don't want to live to see Aragorn take this back because he fucking hates that guy so then he orders himself i guess without fair mirror though he just wanted to die i don't know what his motive is he's just crazy and wants to be dead now okay i guess it's kind of relatable the amount of knowledge in your brain i was like what you're just rattling off these names i'm truly so lost but i shouldn't be because we've seen this in two iterations i've been spending so many hours with this tale and i feel that i should know more but i but i do know a lot you know i have i think these moments i i you know i wanted to i want to talk badly about myself but i also feel like I have retained a lot. And there is a lot that I've learned. And I've grown in really bad ways.

I feel like in that way, you're really relating to Gollum's play in this movie. Anyway, back to you, Lauren. Oh my God. Yes. No, no. Keep doing that because I need to feel like what I'm saying has a connection

to what we're talking about. So, yes. I got you. In Mordor, Frodo and Sam press their way on with Frodo becoming weaker and weaker as they progress. At one point, they're mistaken for orcs and are forced to join a legion heading back to Sirith on Ghul.

When a legion of Easterlings prevents the orcs from going any further, Sam begins a riot between the two armies, allowing him and Frodo to escape. Once they're out of sight, they find a cave and spend the night there. After days of searching, Frodo and Sam arrive at Mount Doom,

only to find Gollum waiting for them. He attacks the two, trying to seize back his precious. Sam holds him off, allowing Frodo to make for the cracks of doom. When Sam follows, he finds Frodo reluctant to finish the task. The power of the ring overtakes him, and he claims it as Sam is forced to watch in horror.

The other day I actually made a Precious's joke. Hell yeah. And I was like, this is it. This is what's happening. It's changing. Like it's like, it was my natural reaction. Tell us the joke. No, it wasn't like a-

Tell us the- I'm like a proud mom. It wasn't like a joke, but it was like Mike said something that sounded like Gollum and I was like Precious's or whatever. And then I was like, this is not, I'm like a proud mom. It wasn't like a joke, but it was like Mike said something that sounded like Gollum and I was like, Preciouses or whatever. And then I was like, this is not, I'm not happy.

Mike probably loved that so much. He was like, oh, that was like that. He's like, that was accurate. Yeah, you used that correctly. Yeah, yeah. I feel like, I thought he'd be a slightly happier. He was just kind of like, oh yeah. Is he big time into Lord of the Rings? Yeah, he knows it. This is my husband and he knows it like pretty well. And he's read all the books and seen all the movies and he's much more into it than I am. So

he's been really, I think, enjoying this process for me, but also frustrated because he'll hear me doing the podcast and just saying things wrong. And he's like across the room, like, no, like, oh my God, how do you not know who that is yet? Like, oh my God. I do feel like this is the part that makes me so sad though. Like in any iteration when Frodo, like after this whole time at the very end, he's corrupted at the very end. I feel like watching the live action was the best way for me to retain this story. Like I think I could see the emotion. I could feel the stakes of it much more. Like with these cartoons,

it's so flat and like just emotionally that like I just don't care what happens like i'm like kill them all like it's just like there's also no there's no blood there's no blood like he gets his finger chopped off yeah it's it's not it's not realistic this cartoon was not realistic that's why i can't watch cartoons yeah it's just not like real life that's honestly how i feel though in this last scene especially because like again gollum i'm gonna say it again i couldn't stop thinking about it prequel the shape of water ass just walking around it's like that's he's certainly amphibious but fine then like he

chomps the finger off the finger doesn't stop being invisible once he chopped it off we don't even see that he chomped the finger off we only know he's missing the finger because of our minstrel singing frodo of the nine fingers this whole fucking movie which by the way to name someone by their like differently abled feature is so fun like do you think frodo liked that song that was so mean he's like i'm so muchdo liked that song? That was so mean. He's like, I'm so much more than that. And by the way, that just happened. Like, I have a whole life of like other things.

Like he literally saved the world and he's being relegated to Frodo of the Nine Fingers. Listen, everyone needs to be humbled, okay? So we got to keep Frodo down to earth and call him Frodo Nine Fingers. That's fine. He's going to gonna die anyway that also makes me so sad yeah they all die

whatever it's fine whatever it's fine I felt like too this would have been a good opportunity it was unclear to me when Sam went power hungry for like a quick second with the ring and he like imagines all the plants growing back that is something that was skipped in even the live action movies went power hungry for like a quick second with the ring. And he like imagines all the plants growing back. That is something that was skipped in the,

even the live action movies that does happen because Galadriel gives him a seed. And when all is said and done, they go back to the Shire all proud of themselves. And the Shire has just been like ravaged and burned by orcs and just totally gone. And they're so devastated. And then Sam's like, wait,

let me plant this seed. And it replenishes all the green. Because he's a gardener, right? That's his whole thing. But that was completely cut from the movies. And then I feel like alluded to in this, but then played off as like a dream sequence. I don't understand any of it. How thick are these books?

So heavy. My God. Infinite just could never. Heavy. My God. Infinite Jess could never. Should we keep going on this? Where did we go?

Yes, let's keep going. Theoden's forces arrive at Pelennor Fields just as the gates to Minas Tirith are broken down. But the tides turn when the Witch-King of Angmar attacks and kills Rohan's king. Coming to avenge her uncle, Eowyn sheds her soldier disguise and with Merry's help slays the Witch-King, It's just crazy. It's crazy that they've been fighting for fucking days. Like, they for sure haven't eaten a meal, slept, shit, pissed, anything. Not remotely nice.

And they finally, it's over, and Aragorn's like, nah, we're going to go to the Black Gate now. Like, he doesn't take one second. Like, just a day? He's, like, truly that noble? I'm exhausted. Like, let's chill. Let's regroup. Like, let's take a nap. He's like truly that noble. I'm exhausted. Yeah, let's chill. Let's regroup. Let's take a nap.

Let's brush our hair. Well, he's got a mission and he's our hero. So if the hero's not forcing people to do shit, I guess they're not a hero. That's really what a hero is, isn't it? It's just like someone who's like, you're doing it. I don't care if you don't want to. Yeah. I liked when Erwan, when she was like, you're doing it. I don't care if you don't want to. Yeah. I liked when Eowyn,

when she was like, I'm a woman. I enjoyed it. Eowyn, I liked it. She was the prettiest thing to look at in this thing. She's like one of those fairy illustration books. I'm obsessed with her. Yeah. They did her dirty in the movies.

I don't think they made her hot enough, the live action ones. I agree with you. She was a little, I don't want to say homely just like kind of matronly yeah it was like come on she's like a warrior make her hot like give her a good thick braid you know oh a good thick braid for jump rope at the same time sam searches for frodo and mount doom and finds column fighting with him for the ring gone bites off his finger and reclaims the ring. As he dances with joy, he loses his footing and falls into the magma chamber,

simultaneously killing himself and destroying the ring. Sauron is finally vanquished as Mount Doom begins to collapse. This fucking bugged me out. It was like the camera was shaking. I was like, how is this happening? It's a cartoon. Frodo and Sam attempt to escape and they're almost killed by the flowing lava

when they're rescued by the eagles they're taking the band the band comes and plays them away to minus minutes where they witness aragon's coronation donald fakin just blasting hotel california i would love that if i also would like it. I'd be like, this is a fun turn. The crossover we deserve. Did you guys catch that when they're like, the hobbits truly accept death here running away from the magma

and they're like, have a happy death, Samwise. It's over. I just for one second wish we could see like a shred of humility and just have them like Screaming

You know what I mean Something For real Imagine that being Your last words on this planet Have a happy death to you My good man Oh my god

And the same to you Master Frodo Like it's too much Oh here's a question That you might know Why is Frodo Sam's master I guess he's his gardener

I think there's like A caste system Sam's master? I guess he's his gardener. I think there's like a case system in the Shire. Because he's like not really, I think supposed to be inside. And I think that's also why he wants to make good with him so badly is because he's like, please let me be on your level. But in the movie that they're just friends, right?

Like they don't, he's still his gardener. Yeah. He calls him. I think he calls him Master Frodo. Yeah. I think he also is just like a real bottom. I think that's just his energy. Fair.

Yeah. He's like really wanting to be dominated. Fair, fair, fair. As the Minstrel ends the tale, Frodo agrees to come with Bilbo, Elrond, and Gandalf as they prepare to set sail into the West and to the Undying Lands, leaving Middle-earth forever. He passes on the Red Book of Westmarch to Sam, saying that he will finish it with stories of his peaceful life in the Shire. Gandalf reassures Sam that someday his kind will have human descendants, and when they hear the tale of the Ring, they will wonder, Is there Hobbit in me? Is there? At the Grey Haven, Sam, Merry, and Pippin watch from afar

as a ship with Frodo, Elrond, Gandalf, and Bilbo on board disappears into the West. We did it. Wow. That's hella sad. Like, you're talking about, like, the integration of Hobbits to the point that they no longer exist, so they're supposed to be like, hell yeah.

Cool. Gandalf's like, look, you're bigger than him, and he's bigger than you. Like, you guys are evolving out. We don't need you anymore. Tight. Anyway, I'm going to go die. See you later.

Also, I think that was misspoken. Frodo does not. I don't think he accepts to go. He literally begs. He's like, can I please die too? I don't want to live here anymore. Everyone calls me Frodo Ninefingers. That's where they go.

But the Undying Lands, they die there die there i mean it's like a metaphor right like they're definitely going to like all right another world you know what i mean like sail the ship into the cosmos kind of a thing fair okay like they can't exist anymore okay well i think we should jump into the awards section yeah this got zero awards and then the the reception for the animated tv special is varied some commentators view it affectionately as an adaptation which children and parents can enjoy together however others regard it with disdain comparing it unfavorably to ral Ralph Bakshi's earlier animated film and Peter Jackson's later live-action film. And Glenn Yarborough's songs are widely derided, although some admit to a

campy affection for the surprisingly tuneful orc marching song where there's a whip, there's a way, or the ballad Frodo of the Nine Fingers. So some people like that one. Some people really do like it. Some people are wrong, unfortunately. Stephen D. Graydonis of Decent Films Guide

gave it a C. He said, works even less well than The Hobbit, which is really a children's story. Overbearing folk ballad soundtrack doesn't even gesture lyrically to Tolkien's poetry. And the director, Arthur Rankin Jr., later stated,

we tried to do Return of the King, but it is an awful lot to put into it. I think Jackson is having the same problem in his films. You can't deviate from these books or somebody will wait on the street for you. The Return of the King, we had to summarize from what happened before and then put it all together in two hours.

It's not a very good film. The director says that about his own film? I want to cry. Wow. They're all very sad that is sad that is i feel like i read something else too that he said that like he didn't think an audience would want to hear all the nitty-gritty details so he skipped them and then after seeing peter jackson's version he was like i guess i was wrong no that's literally our next trivia bit. Yeah. No, that's cool. Asked why he chose to only make The Return of the King instead of making the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy, Rankin admitted, I didn't know that the audience would sit for it.

I was wrong. Man, he's hard on himself. Poor Arthur. The film garners 67% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which I think is pretty high for this film. Garner's 67% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes, which I think is pretty high. I don't think you can look at Rotten Tomatoes for any movie that was released before Rotten Tomatoes, because I think the people that go through and retroactively rate something that came out are people who have like a fondness for it. That's so true. Well, let's jump into this trivia. So many Tolkien fans were disappointed when Ralph Bakshi's 1978 adaptation of Lord of the Rings

covered only the first two books. And when it became clear that Bakshi would not produce a sequel, Rankin and Bass, Bass, I always wanna say Bass, finished the story with this TV movie. And many Tolkien fans agree that Bakshi's film was a more mature and detailed adaptation of Tolkien's stories.

The characters of Gimli and Legoland do not appear in this film, despite being major characters in The Lord of the Rings. Both their fathers being characters in the previous Rankin-Bass-based production, The Hobbit. Gimli's father is the dwarf Glowin, while Legoland's father, Thandrugol, is the king of the elves in Mirkwood. Interesting. And it's possible that Faramir makes a brief appearance. There is an unidentified man who has no lines of dialogue

accompanying Eowyn on horseback during Aragorn's coronation, and the two of them exchange knowing looks. They couldn't afford another voice actor. The original working title was Frodo, the Hobbit two. Honestly, I wish it was called that. I love that.

I love sequels that are like returning to a mountain or whatever. Like I love it. Oh no. I love that. I love the idea of calling it Frodo, the Hobbit two. I feel like usually if you do a sequel, you don't put like a random name at the front,

right? Like it would just be The Hobbit 2. Well, I like this because it's like Frodo's a hobbit as well. Frodo, The Hobbit 2. Frodo back in The Hobbit. Frodo back in The Hobbit. Yeah, back in The Hobbit. Yeah.

That's it. John Milhiser said that one time and he laughed for a full day. Oh. Oh. Okay. So I'll tell him that you said it and he'll be teeheehing for another couple hours maybe someone can draw us um i think someone should draw the poster for frodo back in the hobbit oh please do frodo in a in a nun costume in the shire and the nun costume has literally

nothing to do with it because it's not even the habit. Yeah, and then you're gonna have to put some big, I think she's wearing red pumps in the

original posters. You're gonna have to put some pumps on Frodo and this is the only thing I wish to be tagged in in the coming months and years. This is it.

I don't want to look at anything else. I don't know that you can... Go ahead. No, no, you go. No, go ahead. No, I will not. It's your turn to speak. Honestly, you must go. I was going to go on to the next trivia.

I shall not pass. She's seen Lord of the Rings. Okay, okay. I i'm getting really far at comic-con wow i'm still not gonna say what i was gonna say lauren okay so it was originally planned as a two-hour feature to air in the fall of 1979 but it was pushed back to may 1980 and the runtime was reduced to one hour and 38 minutes and we are not sad about that they cut stuff out of an animated movie maybe they're time travelers and heard our complaints went back in time edit this for the good of humanity yeah but that's like such a fuck you to the animators

make them anime shit that didn't make it in the movie that's so true that is they had to sit there for like months like doing scenes hand drawing cut oh yeah uh the release was threatened by a lawsuit filed by the tokin estate and fantasy films the production company behind the 1978 lord of the rings on the basis that rankin Bass Base had not secured the U.S. and Canadian television rights to the book. The lawsuit was settled amicably. Aw.

I want to know what that means. They were just like, oh, my bad. And they're like, oh, okay, you said you're bad. That's easy to go ahead. I feel like there was probably some money involved. Oh, yes, maybe. Yes, that sounds more accurate. But that was what made it amicable.

That's probably what made it, yeah. People got paid. Yeah. So we're always happy. Well, we really did it. I mean, I don't think there could be more to say about this. I have one more thing to say. Okay, great. If I can, I think

Sauron, we really, i'm not sure if you've covered this in previous episodes but i think one thing that has been glossed over largely in culture is that sauron is ultimately a jeweler oh i guess yeah he's he whittled a ring and wants it back yeah he's just a jeweler i think that really helps humanize his eyeball that does that really does yeah i'm here for that there's nothing to be scared of he's just like a geppetto motherfucker he's passionate he's a craftsman yeah i get it i appreciate that well oh my god well you've arrived you made it fun to talk about at the end it was fun to speak to you about this it would have been fun to talk about something i liked i wish i liked this i like want to like

lord of the rings and like some of the comments people have said on twitter man i really wanted them to enjoy this they really seem to hate it and that's yeah that's true but don't you remember at the beginning when like i did like it and it was weird and I was like I can't believe I kind of like this movie a little yes and now we've swung back full circle to this is bad yeah I think you're gonna hate anything you have to like inundate yourself with so completely like I think the premise of the podcast does not help you in enjoying things I just wish it was a little goofier yeah well that's why I like the Hobbit movies because they're so silly very goofy goofy but like I don't know I think it helps for sure like if you notice throughout the movies like they are definitely

getting high on bag pipe weed bag weed what's it called like all the time I'm pretty sure if you were just high and you watched them you might relate to them a bit more like I think that it is helpful to be stoned while watching these movies for sure and I haven't been during any of them and that's like a huge problem I think like i feel like i've been like i need to remember

what's happening and i have to stay awake and whatever and like i think your next newcomer should be on trying different hard drugs you know just do an episode on each one i've done enough newcomers crack we're like we've never newcomers crack. And all the episodes are just like, crack is fun. I've been smoking a lot of crack. I took apart the TV. I don't know if crack would make you do that. Well, I tried watching Star Wars Stone and I got too high. I can't remember what we were watching.

I think it might have been Rogue One. But I was like staring at the TV for maybe 15 minutes. And I turned to John and I was like, who are these people? And he's like the same ones that have been there. And I was like, okay, I can't, I have to pay attention. Yeah. Yeah. It's too hard. I also think it helps, especially if something is dense, the Lord of the Rings or like Game of Thrones, something where there's like a text to be referred to. It really helps to watch it with someone who can like pause every 10 seconds and be like okay

so here's who that person is because i don't think even harry potter like they can't possibly explain it well enough yeah it just flies through this movie though did not even for me i will say if it makes you feel any better as a huge fan of this series this movie i was like okay it's got to be almost over and i was like five minutes in oh my god i know i know i was 30 minutes in and it was like still had a full hour plus and i was like i think this is not gonna be fun for me but we did it and it was great and meow do you have anything you would like to plug i mean you kind of plugged everything i have at the top listen to punch up the jam stream tourist season that That's it.

Well, that's very exciting. Check out Lord of the Rings, you guys. I think they need more eyes on this. And we have our little battle. Oh, we should do our plugs. What do you have to plug? I'm going to plug my Patreon for 90 Day Bae. Me and my friend Marcy talk about 90 Day Fiance.

And if you want to listen to me talk about something that I love and I'm very passionate about that would be it that's great and I I also have a Patreon I've been doing lots of improv I'm bringing back with special guest Lauren Lapkus on there and I'm doing watch alongs for movies I did the witches the old and the new witches. So if you need something a little fun. How was the new one? Not to don't give too much away, but did you like it? I really liked it. Yeah, I did. I did.

But I mean, I think I think that might be not the popular opinion, which is interesting. But hey, that I think is the whole premise of this podcast. I feel like it's it's what the Hobbit, the live action Hobbit was as compared to like Lord of the Rings. It kind of felt like it totally did a similar thing from the old witches to the new witches. Yes, it's it's a really different tone at first. You have to adjust to. But then I thought it was really fun. But the old one is way scarier.

OK, well, we're now at the battle of the five star segment. This is the segment where we read your five star reviews. You can leave a review in your favorite podcast platform for a chance for us to read it. This one is 77 Gollum is a terror and a nightmare by Battle Born Bitch on Apple Podcasts. This podcast is fantastic and a true dream. But 1977 Gollum is not cute. Watching that movie is one of my earliest memories. Another is that I spent my childhood nights terrified tiny gollums were stacking themselves to get into my bed, steal my blanket and eat me. I even skipped past the intro in the podcast because it gave me the willies. I had no idea how much this movie scarred me, but Nicole and Lauren are the only people I would brave this horror for. Happy hobbiting. Thank you, Battleborn bitch. We'll be back next week with something only about 10 years old instead of 40. I wonder what that is. Maybe it's a kid.

Oh, I hope we're reviewing a child. Bye-bye. That was a Hiddem Original.