No Laying Up - Golf Podcast - 924: The Journey of Lauren Coughlin

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

Big Randy and Cody turn over the keys for this LPGA pod to Tron and John Pond - husband and part-time caddie for Lauren Coughlin. John details the long road that LC has taken from early struggles as a professional to multiple LPGA Tour wins and a Solheim Cup appearance. This interview was originally released as Nest exclusive podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, consider joining The Nest: No Laying Up’s community of avid golfers. Nest members help us maintain our light commercial interruptions (3 minutes of ads per 90 minutes of content) and receive access to exclusive content, discounts in the pro shop, and an annual member gift. It’s a $90 annual membership, and you can sign up or learn more at nolayingup.com/join Support Our Partners: Yeti Titleist Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Be the right club. Be the right club today. That's better than most. How about in? That is better than most. Better than most! Expect anything different. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome into the No Laying Up podcast. My name is Randy. I am joined today by Cody McBride. Cody, good afternoon to you, sir. How are you? Very good, Mr. Big. We're back at it with some more LPGA content

and something special cooked up today. Yeah. Very special episode. We are, we're actually going to turn control over Cody and I are just going to get out of the way. This is, this is one of the easier episodes he and I have ever done because it doesn't involve either one of us. Instead, it's gonna be our good associate, Tron Carter, interviewing John Pond. John is the husband and sometimes caddy for Lauren Coughlin out on the LPGA tour. You know that Lauren is one of our young hitters

and she and John are two of our very good friends at this point as well. And we, well, I say we, Tron, conducted an interview with John that went up as an NLU Nest exclusive podcast. And I'll touch on that in just a minute. But they got into Lauren's whole golf history, the struggles, the low times,

and then obviously how things started to change, why they changed, and where they, the struggles, the low times, and then obviously how things started to change, why they changed, and where they, you know, as a couple, and she in particular finds herself today enjoying a lot of success coming off an awesome Solheim Cup, a couple of wins on the LPGA Tour this year. So if you want a breakdown into the grind, the frustrations, the highs, the lows of professional golf and what it was like for not only Lauren, but for her husband, John, this will be a wonderful episode for you.

So Cody, have I set the stage there? Anything that you would like to add? No, the only thing else that I would add is that John Pond, when he's not caddying for Lauren, he also really has a full-time job. So he's the full-time caddy for Gina Kim. They're trying to make it. They're battling status and getting into tournaments and everything.

But John has left his job, used to run scholarships or fundraising or something like that at University of Virginia. But they've decided to go out on the road full-time this year together. And they've worked together at times when, you know, when Elsie has her other full-time caddy a Hall of Famer in his own right, John is quick to find other work. And it's really cool to see how this is all come together for them. I will say a little fun fact that's not touched on in this podcast, but you know, John Pond's grandpa was a legitimate professional NASCAR driver.

He won. No idea. He won the 1978 Talladega 500 Lenny pond. That's John Pond's grandpa. There's so many other, you know, weird little spider routes that we could go down with John, but it's just fascinating hearing Elsie's story from his perspective and kind of from the very, very beginning all the way

to where we are now. Yeah, well, thank you for that additional context. Very well said. Before I touch on the nest, Cody, let's just thank both of our sponsors for this episode and then we'll run the interview uninterrupted. So who would we like to start with today? Well, of course, our presenting sponsor for all of our LPGA coverage this year has been Yeti and we appreciate Yeti.

They're deep into the golf scene, even though people don't realize that they might be a golf company, but they're introducing their new carp collection. I really like this color they have. It's kind of a, you know, the light sandish brown color, but they have it available and pretty much every single product offering that they have, whether that's drinkware, backpacks, coolers, French presses, you name it. I got to scrolling up on the screen if you want to check out the video on our No Laying

Up YouTube podcast channel. The other big thing to note here is that they have incredible guest and gift selection tools. So if you scroll down, they got holiday gift guides. They have little tabs to help you find the perfect gift for any person in your body. They have tons of options to customize almost every single thing that they have in their line. They're always updating it with new products. We appreciate Yeti.

Please visit them at yeti.com for for whatever any holiday need that you that you potentially could have to include dog beds. Of course dog stuff and I was just going to add to with the holidays if you want to personalize Yeti also offers wonderful personalization options so you can you know get it inscribed or you know whatever you want on the product that you're buying for somebody. So thank you, Cody. And also last but not least, our good friends at Titleist, FootJoy, what direction are we going today? Yeah, you know the deal. We're going Titleist and we're talking LC and she actually made a pretty big golf ball change that I think is, is helping her springboarding

her into this 2024, the season that she's had. So at the 2023 Scottish open, she made the change. She originally played the Pro V1 X. She decided to move over to the Pro V1. And sure enough, a year later, she had already won one national open up in Canada. And a year to the mark later, she won her second LPGA title after claiming the 2024 Scottish Open. Instead of me just reading a bunch of ad copy, let's just listen to Elsie and she'll tell us why she made the change. I've played Pro V1X for years and years.

It started last year. I was like, okay, I'm gonna give the regular Provia a try and see if that'll help. And I saw a huge benefit and an improved ball flight with the regular. Irons especially in controlling my distance. I can take a little bit off this if I need to and it can go a couple yards shorter

or if I really need to step on something, it can go a couple yards longer. Just having that confidence that it's gonna do what I want it to do is very high. I really liked how it felt putting the ball too. It felt a lot softer, which I really like and I've been using it ever since. There you have it. Whether it's the Pro V1 Pro V1 X Pro V1 X left dash finding the title is golf ball that performs best for your game comes down to flight, spin

and feel. All right. That's why LC perfect example of why everyone should get fit for their golf ball. And the process to get fitting is very easy. Everybody please head to titleist.com where you can choose the golf ball selector tool or connect with the title is fitting expert over a free one-on-one video chat. That's pretty sweet. From there, you'll be at recommended golf ball models shown and alternatives that you can bring to the course to test side by side to make your final decision. You know, me, I'm a big X guy, big, I love it. But as am I, as am I, I'm always open. If there's something better for my game, of course we'll change, you know, I go wherever they tell me the ball will spend the most for me because

Lord knows I need it. So I'm surprised we hang out in the same neighborhoods there, Cody. I would figure you're up with the with the big spin people, but it's good. I'm happy to have you in the X club. So, well, thank you of course to Yeti Titleist. You've, if you've listened to our LPGA shows this year, you know that they have been just wonderful supporters. And I did mention earlier, this podcast, this interview that you're gonna listen to originally went up as a Nest exclusive podcast.

What is the Nest you might ask? Well, hopefully you know from just hanging around No Laying Up, but if not, the Nest is what we like to call our online community. And for $90 a year, anybody is free to join the Nest. You can go to nolayingup.com slash join. And it comes with a lot of perks among those. You get full access to our Refuge message board. That's the home of kind of our community center, for better or worse. It's always, you never quite know what you're going to get on a message board.

If you buy No Lay laying up merchandise, joining the Nest gets you 15% off plus early access to limited inventory every time you go into the NLU Pro Shop. There's Nest exclusive merchandise available for sale. You get a monthly member podcast, our Nest podcast. There are various Nest member giveaways. There's an annual gift that Neil and Casey and Tron always put a lot of thought into. And finally, you get early access to our event signups. And through the events, you are more than welcome

to join a local roost where you live. You can meet up with people in real life. And if you play some good golf, you might get earning an invitation to the nest invitational tournament or NIT or even the roost club championship. So again, go to no laying up.com slash join to find out more about the nest and to, to join.

So Cody, I think we got, we got everything we needed to out of the way. I feel like at this point, I should tell people you and I are going to be back next week. Big tournament going on. The Onika presented by Gamebridge going on outside Tampa this week. It's the last full event before next weekend's LPGA Tour Championship. So you and I are going to be back next Thursday to kind of break down the season, preview the Tour Championship.

And yeah, if there's nothing else, we can throw it to TC and John Pond. Now I'm excited to break down Kaitlin's golf game next week. That's it. Perfect. Perfect. Well, without further ado, here is Tron Carter interviewing John Pond

about Lauren Coughlin. All right. Joined by my good friend, John Pond, Mr. Coughlin, as we've referred to him in the past. John, welcome to the show, my man. Yeah, thanks for having me. You've been a Ness member for a long time and kind of one of those things, I think people know Lauren, people know you, and I think people know Lauren's story

and we've all kind of been celebrating this last month or so, she's been on this heater, but knowing everything that went into it and kind of all the fits and starts and all of the trials and tribulations and one step forward, three steps back at times and how to keep the faith through all that. And then you got your own career going on. I'm stoked you finally out on the road with her and feeling like, man, for the last however many

years, you've been trying to get out on the road, but watching from afar certain tournaments and all that. So want to get into some of that. But first and foremost, where are you right now? I am tucked in some bad corner of a four point Sheraton in Norwood, Massachusetts, even though we're at TPC Boston, nowhere close to Boston. I think it was a $110 Uber ride from the airport. So I'm trying to figure that out, trying to navigate everything that's going on. Apparently on a Wednesday night, the bar gets rowdy here. So I've had to walk probably a half mile around this hotel to find a quiet place to do this. Why fly into Boston? Why not fly into Providence?

So originally scheduled to fly into Providence, but coming from St. Andrews and in a changed flight, Boston was the only reasonable option. Of course, Lauren, who did not change her flight, had the luxury of me picking her up. But I had to fly in Boston. Of course, part of that was a united reason. One of the big planes was flying on Saturday from St. Andrews. So it was able to fly Polaris. But the only way to get here was to go through Boston. Backing up. So you will do a little nest housekeeping here. I know Neil did some stuff

on the front end. How many nest events have you been to? Refuge events, roost events, kind of NLU events? Gosh, well, I mean, I've been coming to the events predating any of Roost, any of that. It was kind of the WhatsApp groups. I would venture to guess since probably 2021, I've been to 12, 15 official in some way, whether it's through CLC chat or through actual NLU events, I've probably been to 12 to 15.

Started off really hot out the gate, kind of came out of nowhere, had just joined kind of the nest, the refuge, and went to the original Hoot Nanny and won, playing off like a 16 handicap. Showed up and won by like four shots, nobody knew who the hell I was. Was getting a lot of weird looks

And then since then aside from winning my flight at DNIT out of nowhere Last year. I don't think I've even sniffed a top 25 in a refuge event. Okay. What are some of your other favorite events your favorite memories? I went out to the to the BMW when y'all did it in Denver a couple of years ago, had a super good time with you and Randy and Aaron. The first one, like, like 20, the first one. Yeah. Back when the Grutter golf girls were still kind of floating around and doing

their thing. Watched, I believe it was Jen, just totally lose her mind over trying to chase down a rabbit. You know, some extra-curriculars involved there. But I think kind of all the North Carolina things are kind of the things that I've kind of gotten ingrained in. Whether it's the hood nanny, whether it's the stuff that the guys have done down at like Mimosa Hills. That place looks sweet.

Which it's one of my favorite places. I mean, it's I've been to that member guest now two or three times with one of my really good friends that I met off the refuge. A super cool place. And then kind of the Pinehurst area has just always been easy one for us. It's where the relationship unofficially started. It was first time I met all you guys, I think, left a four foot putt short on camera, which was humbling

Which sounds kind of in line with with what you've gone in the last couple weeks at your own events. Oh John I can't emphasize enough how badly I played in the BMW championship pro and with Roger Steele who actually just almost won the creator classic tonight I was rooting hard for him over Wesley Bryan. We were all on the edge of our seats. Yeah. Roger's the best man. But he, yeah, he beat Neil and I like a drum in the Pro Am. We play with Tom Hoagy, Max Grazerman. And I'm like, man, I'm, this is like not good. I'm playing world. And then we went out on Monday, Colorado Golf Club. And I think I shot 48 or 49 on the front

nine. We started on the second hole. I think I went 49, 38. And yeah, that's probably my worst nine hole score since I was playing left-handed at least. So just wiped out after a great week out there, but too much, just kind of frayed too much, too many hotel beds and drinking in hospitality and staying up late at night, doing this TPI stuff too. And it's got me hitting weird positions in my swing that I haven't been to in a long time, which is I think a good thing long-term, but short-term it's a problem. It's kind of a bleak scene right now. I think one of my lowest NLU refuge, nest,

whatever you want to call it moments is when I handed you money after playing against you left-handed and not only did you beat me with the shots that I was giving, I think you beat me straight up at Jack's Beach and I had to hand you a pretty decent amount of money when you were playing left-handed as a fucking joke so that was hard for me but I was actually out at Titleist today. Oh yeah? I was out at the ball plant. went to, you went down to Manchester lane and the ball plant. Yeah. So the girl I'm caddying for is kind of testing out. We're trying to

get some spin numbers up and kind of looking at the 2025 ball that they're coming out with in the X. So we were down there today. That's super cool testing going on with the robots. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy just talking to those guys, how much they're thinking about rollback right now. Oh, I'm sure it's an interesting time to those guys how much they're thinking about rollback right now. Oh, I'm sure it's an interesting time to be there. While still trying to develop a tour level ball. They were doing some tests and they couldn't talk about with the robots, but it's crazy. I'm pretty sure I watched some of the limited flight balls that they're kind of doing experiments

with and watching them fly through the air was just a totally different look. Yeah. It's funny. Sometimes I think when Neil and I went there, it was Neil and Casey and I, and we went and there's a, they were doing like, they were showing us stuff where from an aerodynamic profile, they'll put dimples on half the ball and no dimples in the other half the ball. And then they'll ask us like, Hey, which, which side of the ball do you think, you know, went out or, you know, like, and it was fascinating to see the different flights and it fall out of the air balloon or different stuff. But it looks like

it just kind of like knuckles out of the air. Like it just kind of, it goes out normal. And then it's just like, it's like seeing a plane with no lift on it. It's like a paper airplane that just kind of falls out. Our event at Colorado Golf Club was awesome. Have you ever played that place? No. Oh, dude. It's like Bandon Trails.

I liked it more than Bandon Trails. Bandon Trails is one of my favorite courses anywhere. Bandon is the place we have to get to. Lauren and I keep talking about trying to get out to Bandin. It's just hard with her schedule, but I feel like I need to start at Bandin. Well, Lydia is there this week, I think. Right? I think she flew to Bandin this week. After a gold medal in an open championship, I think her schedule clears up.

Probably a little easier to get a tee time too. Yeah. Yeah. No, actually I called up, called up Michael Chupka and I was like, Hey, she's headed your way. He was like, what is, what does she like to drink and all that. So, but it was, um, yeah, I feel like, I don't know, Lauren's not far off from a proper open championship win and all of that. So if this, if this keeps up, but take me back. How did you and Lauren meet? You guys met at Virginia? Yeah, so we met our first year of college. We lived in the same dorm. We're connected through a mutual friend of ours,

my college roommate, who I think she, well, I know she went on one date with, which did not work out. Very quickly we realized that was not going to work out. And then I met her shortly thereafter. We kind of just stayed in touch, stayed friends. She had a car, which is something that UVA you cannot have as a first-year student.

But because being on the golf team and having to drive to the golf course, she had a car. So that was a big deal, right? And so we kind of became friends over the course of that spring semester, our first year and then start dating in the summer after. And I guess it's been 12 or 13 years later and here we are. And did you work for the university immediately after graduating? Yes. Yes, I got a job. I think I started at the university maybe two weeks after graduation.

I mean, it was a quick turnaround. So she turned professional right after we finished and graduated, didn't really have status anywhere, you know, was playing state opens and won two of those three or four state opens that she was able to play in right out of college. But I think the Tennessee State Open she won was a $5,000 winners check, which was probably maybe made $1,500, $2,000 after her expenses to get to Tennessee in a hotel room. And then she won the Colorado Open, which was $11,000, I think, for the beginning part of her career. We were started out already in the whole after you pay for Q school and things like that. I got a sponsor invite into one EPS event, which I very quickly into my new job took a week off work to go caddy for her. We got in a massive fight on

like the fourth hole of the golf tournament and I didn't talk to her for six holes. So she had you caddied for her prior? Like had you done a lot of caddying prior or? So I've caddied for her twice in Virginia women's state amateurs. And it was, you know, you hop in a golf cart, you ride around, it's match play. And she won both times. But I mean, she raked own bunkers. I had never really been around golfing anyway. I'm just driving the cart and telling bad jokes. So we get to this absent event in Rochester, New York and it's the fourth hole. She's nervous as shit playing in her first big professional tournament and kind of wipes a hybrid into this greenside bunker that's like 30 yards short of the green. You know, terrible shot.

It had dumped rain the night before. She like blades one out of the bunker and to the very back of the green has maybe 100 foot putt. I'm like freaking out. Like I know I'm supposed to go clean this golf ball but I know I've got to rake this bunker. So I just like, I just like hop in there and maybe smooth out half of the footprints, right?

And so I run over to her like another caddies already cleaned her ball I had no business getting there and then I'm trying to read the putt which I've never read a putt before because I'm nervous You know, she's got this 80 footer for par or whatever How long did y'all this point? date dating at this point? Date dating. I mean, we were engaged at this point. So we've engaged probably

five years and we're set to be married like six months later. Okay. So she ends up three whack and it makes double and to get to the next T you kind of have to walk by back by this bunker. And she just looks at me and goes, you did a terrible job breaking that bunker. I'm like, shit, yeah, you did a terrible job raking that bunker. I'm like, shit, I screwed up. So I get back in there with the rake and it's just this thick, clumpy, wet sand.

And I'm in there trying to fix it and she kind of just like puts her hands on her hips and starts staring at me while I'm raking this bunker. And she just looks at me and goes, you're making it worse. So then, yeah, keep trying to fix it. Long story short, I think her uncle or somebody who had come to watch the event ducks under the ropes and just takes the rake from me and starts fixing it.

I am so mad. I just grabbed a baguette of the next tee, don't talk to her for three or four holes. She missed the cut. We drove back home and I'm pretty sure within two days I had watched a YouTube video on how to rake a bunker and went to our home club and went in the practice bunker, didn't take clubs to the course and just raked a bunker for an hour trying to figure out how the hell to do this. Did you call somebody over to then judge it or tell you,

hey, that's a good job? Or was it just kind of, you know, eye test? No, gosh, I'm trying to, it was very much eye test. But I think I watched a YouTube video, it might have been like the caddy network or something like that. I put out a video on YouTube of how to rake a bunker, like a tour caddy. So I watched that and I just, I raked this bunker

and I'd like make my own footprints and smooth them out and you know, learn that you like push the sand, don't pull the sand and don't drop the rake on top. And then she didn't let me caddy before for like, you know learn that you like push the sand don't pull the sand and don't drop the rake on top and then she didn't let me caddy before for like you know probably another 8 to 12 months or whatever until 2018 so it was all for naught. And this was what like so this was 2016? 2016 yeah. Yeah okay. Yeah would have been the summer of 2016 2016 and then from there you guys When'd you get married? We got married in January of 2018, okay? So yes, yeah, we're like a year a year or so out after that event

So she at the end of 2016 she went to Q school Played okay, you know had like a super nervous start, barely got through first stage, got to second stage and then to finals, so got her Eps, or got to second stage, got her Epson Tour card, went out on Epson in 2017 and I don't remember how she played, I'm sure I could go back and look, but I know it wasn't very good. I think made a few cuts but didn't have any like top tens or anything like that and Was kind of in a place where she was ready to give up golf, right? and and we talked a lot about it and For whatever reason and I think I was blindly pushing her to like not give up on it

so we kind of came to an agreement, you know, you'll go back to Q school in 2017 and if you get your LPGA tour card, we'll keep going. If not, being out on the Epson tour is not a place she wanted to be again and struggling to make it financially and having to borrow money. So how's your job going at the university at this point? Just like any other entry level job, I'm overworked and underpaid, and I'm trying to take a Friday off,

and I'm leaving Charlottesville on a Thursday night and driving eight, nine, 10, 12 hours to the Epson event to get there to push a push cart for or carry a bag and then leaving Sunday night. And I'm probably making 40 some thousand dollars as a recent first time job and we're hemorrhaging cash at this point. What, and you're doing, you're doing fundraising at this point? Yes. I started an event at the university. That was kind of my first gig, like entry into

fundraising. So I did that for like the first year of her professional career, kind of shifted over to the fundraising side the following year in 2018. Do you remember, is there a specific Epson event? You remember where it was just like, man, this is bleak. This course sucks. This, like, where are we? This is, you know, or, or she's been out there for three weeks and you haven't seen her and, you know, it's a stretch. I think on the Epson tour, Garden City, Kansas is kind of the one that breaks these girls. Yeah. I think more careers and in that city or, you know, girls decide that their careers ending in that city more than anywhere else on tour. Is that just because it's just Western Kansas? It's windy.

It's firm. Yeah, it's just like not nice. I think that there's like I think I've never been to this event, but I think there's like a paper mill or something there. And just the smell is like, you know, god awful smell. And then girls are just absolutely beat down. It was always like the smallest Epson purse. Kind of late in the season too, like how you're. Yeah, I think it's late late in the year.

Yeah. And it's like, I feel like it always comes at the back end of a long stretch on the road for the girls. So it's like, you know, that event, a lot of girls being in it, being in Kansas, they're driving 12 or 14 hours to get there and then driving back and you know finishing 30 50 probably make $1,100 so you lose money for the week and you're just sitting in your car with your thoughts for 12 or 14 hours going back home like what the fuck am I doing out here.

So Lauren comes back home after that and you guys kind of come to that decision. Where's Q School that year? Was it up in Pinehurst? No, it was at LPGA down in Daytona. So it kind of come to the decision, you know, basically she had already paid for Q School and that was kind of the reason she was even willing to go do it. And so her college coach, Kim Llewellyn, basically said like, hey, if you're going to give this a go, I'll come caddy for you and save that expense. If it is your last round of professional golf ever, we'll do it together. And hopefully some magic happens.

And sure enough, she kind of, I think makes shot like 78 the first day or something like that. And I think we had all kind of freed her up. Yeah. It was just like, oh shit, like this really is it. Like I think it was, I think she thought it was lift clean in place and picked up a ball on one of the fairways and took a penalty. It was just a bad day.

And then fortunately, you know, six rounds or whatever it was five rounds and she played well the rest away finished tied for seventh and the top 20 players at that time got their cards and it was it's not like it is now we're you know 21 through 45 and key series get limited status it was if you finished 21st like back to Epson sorry. It was all or nothing. It was all or nothing. And so she went out finished T7 and got her LPGA tour card. What was holding her back? Was it anything? Was it putting? Was it course management? Or was it just confidence and not being able to put four rounds together? It was just knowing how to be a professional you know. I mean everything in college was so

regimented for them, as it is with any sport. You've got a nutritionist, and you've got your strength and conditioning staff, you've got your coaches, and everyone's telling you what to do, and how to do it, and where to be. Lauren came out and I think very much enjoyed her freedom

as a professional, and kind of got out of shape and kind of lost that getting in the gym and just kind of like you know how to practice exactly like how long to practice what to practice and you know even though she thought she was doing some things it just could kind of gotten lazy in her preparation and kind of what went into her game. So then, all right. So she comes back from key school after T7. Holy shit. You have LPGA to work hard a new lease on life. Like, what is that? What is that winter like? What is that shift in mindset like?

Yeah, it's easy to think you've made it at that point. And she had talked to me about, so in 2017, that year before, on Epson, we had went and she did a Monday qualifier for the event they had in Dallas at Las Galinas and got through and played pretty decent. Like kind of was around the cut line and didn't end up making the weekend. But she had told me like, gosh, there's

100 girls out here that keep their cards. Like if I can just get out here, like I'm going to make it. And you know, I think that was kind of her thought is like, Oh, I've got my card. Like I'll play in 25 events. I just have to be top hundred to keep my card. Like it's going to be easy. I'm not realizing all the little stuff that goes into that versus just because her, her talent level is always like, she's always had a high ceiling, right? She's always hit the ball. Well, she's always done the kind of done the hard stuff. Well, but just not all the little easy stuff that adds up

to big stuff. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And kind of, I think she probably thought that her ball striking and just her natural talent would kind of get at her through that rookie year on LPGA. And you know, she had seen girls she's played against her whole life and girls from University of Virginia that have gone out and made it on tour like Brittany Altamari was really kind of peaking in her career, was a Solheim Cup player and playing some really good golf. And you know, when you see somebody every single day during college,

you start to compare yourself to them and not realizing you're comparing yourself to what they were in college, not who they are as a professional. Not realizing everything that went into that or the stuff that they're doing. Exactly. Yeah. And realizing how much better they've got. You know, now they're playing 6,600 yard golf courses where pins are four from the left, four from the right, not 6,000 yard golf courses in college where, you know, they're going to run a pin straight up the middle and, you know, all you have to do is shoot six under for three days and you're going to win a college golf tournament.

Yeah. What's, sorry, I had to turn those lights off. I've had a long day of podcasts. If you can't see it on here, anybody that's watching on the website, I ran into a doorframe the other night and I wish it was a better story. We were at the Marriott Denver Tech Center. I think I had two beers at dinner. I was actually pretty sober and

just ran into the door in the middle of the night when I went to the restroom. I thought I broke my nose and undid all the stuff that they did when they went in there to fix my nose last year. So how did that year start off? 2018? Yeah, we got married in January of 2018. The morning after our wedding, we took like a 6 a.m. flight out of Richmond, which is an hour from home and flew straight to the Bahamas for her first event as an LPJ tour member. It blew so hard that they at least suspended play at some point for wind. I think I remember watching that. That was in, was that in Nassau? Like it's some... Yeah, down in the Bahamas. Yeah. I think I remember watching that. That was in, was that in Nassau? Like it's some...

Yeah, down in the Bahamas. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was the last year they did the event too, probably for that reason. But that was always kind of where the LPGA kicked off their season, their schedule. And so we got married 24 hours later, we're in the Bahamas. The reason we got married the week before the wedding is because we still had no money. We were, you know, Epson tour, we lost money that year and then Q school fees wrapped up.

So we kind of put two and two together like, hey, the Bahamas is expensive, but it's a place people would go for a honeymoon. So if we get married the week before, like our parents will pay for this as our honeymoon. Two for one special. Yeah. So we kind of got the two for one and it went straight from the wedding to the Bahamas. And are you caddying? I caddied that week.

Yeah. Okay. And then I did that event and then I think I did a couple more to help start the year for. Okay. And then you're probably thinking, how are we going to pay for this whole travel schedule to a rider? How are we going to, how are we going to pay for this whole travel schedule? How are we going to fund this whole season?

Yeah, and especially, you know, I didn't travel much as a kid. That just wasn't something we did. I'd been on one airplane before college. Like, I didn't really know how all that stuff worked, but having had worked at the university now for like a year and a half or so, I'm traveling a ton on my own. I'm seeing what all this stuff costs. And then I'm looking at like, Lauren's always been with paying for golf clubs and they gave her a contract when she got LPGA status. And I'm like, okay, well that gets us through two weeks and we're going to play a 25 event schedule.

And then Titleist gave her a deal to play the golf ball. And I'm like, okay, that's another week or two. So we've still got- How much are those deals? Like five grand, 10 grand? Five grand. Five grand each, yeah. Your bonus structures are good on those deals,

but as a rookie- They can beat what you kill, yeah. Yeah. And so, and they're not like two-year deals either. It's like, yeah, if things don't go well, like these deals are gone. So fortunately she was able to, you know, kind of leverage that to start the season,

but that money drives up so fast. Well, yeah, I mean, looking at it, 78, 75 in the Bahamas missed the cut. Why not in Australia? I only missed the cut by one in the Bahamas. That's 78, 75. Go to Australia, a few weeks later, fly all the way down there, MC 79, 74. And then, and I guess the shitty part about the LPGA schedule too, it's still to this day. You're kind of

trying to get your year started and then it's just, it's like like hurry up and wait for three weeks, four weeks. So you go one event in January, you got the Australian open February and you've got Vegas. I think it was Vegas at that point. Bank of Hope Founders Cup. Bank of Hope Founders Cup. Maybe Arizona. Okay. And that's mid, that's March, you know, that's the week of March 15th. So you've got, got 79, 73 there. And then Kia Classic down in,

that was the one at Aviarra in Southern California. 80, 70. This is the cut there. And then the Lotte championship, which that's the Hawaii one, right? So that's not a cheap trip. 75, 77, miscut beginning in April. Then you go LA open 71, 78, miss the cut. And then she makes her first cut, the Meta-Heel championship. I don't know which one that was. That was the one. I think that was a Satecoi California kind of central California. But 70 she goes 75 71 80 79 cash is a $2,800 check. And so loses money for the week. And then, and then after that, it was go to Texas volunteers of America, LPGA, Texas classic. She'd's 7270 but cash is a check. Then she's

T57. Does that get canceled? The 36th hole event. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I cadded for in that event. I remember it very well. Is that the one with the really bad 18th hole? The worst finishing hole you've ever seen? Yes. The colony. Yeah. Yeah. Up there. Yeah. Yes, I caddied that one for her and just to go back a little bit you had mentioned I think it was one of the LA events where she shot like 71 the first round. Yeah. Yeah I remember that week. Is that Wilson? I think it was. I remember that week really specifically because you know Things had been tough She hadn't made a cut and when she shot 71 the round, as you had listed off her opening round scores,

that was the best by a mile. I remember looking at flights to go out to be there for when she made her first cut on the LPJ tour. And I had a bunch of airline miles from work saved up. And I was about to book my ticket, and I think she made a triple bogey or something in the second round. I was just like, I just like sadly by myself sitting at my office just like closed out that web browser I was like fuck like not making that one.

Yeah. So then you caddy for in Texas like what's her mindset at this point? Like oh man this is gonna be a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be or is it? No, like absolutely fucking thrilled to have made a cut. Like so happy to finish 75th and cash that $2,800 check. She's like, all right, I've seen the ball go through the hoop. Now I can kind of start to play offense a little bit. I think that's what she thought, yeah. You know, I've done it. If nothing else, I can say I've made a cut out here like all the work or

Or whatever has gone into it like it's a it's a validation point, right? Yeah, and so, you know, I think Texas was Kind of a good embodiment of of Warren's career as a whole You know, she played super good the first day and just got nothing out of that round and then you know There was another day or day and a half of weather delays. Went out that second round, I remember, I could probably recall every shot from that round. She hit six greens. And shot even a one under to make the cut on the number,

whatever it was. It's probably the most uncharacteristic Lauren has ever. It was the most nervous kind of full swing golf I've ever seen from her. But I don't know what it was. She found a way to get the ball in the hole that day. And it was the first time I'd really seen her do that in her career as a professional. It was kind of a thing she did in college on the days where the swing was off.

She just found a way to make it work, found a way to make par and to turn 75 into 70 or 71. And it was just like, I mean, I don't, I think she finished like 50 something that week because they ended up canceling the rest of the event. But I remember that being huge of just like, hey man, like you can kind of dig it out of the dirt when you have to. And like you can, this is something to build off of. Like you didn't have your best stuff and you went out and found a way to get it done when

everything's kind of mounting and the pressure stacked against you. And then go back to Virginia the next week or a couple of weeks later and 71.67773 finishes T50, cashes another check, close the home. So you're thinking, all right, this is perfect. We got three cuts in a row. Three checks in a row. Yeah, we figured this shit out. Yeah. Made, you know, 10 grand in checks.

It's probably, you know, most of that's probably gone to expenses, but hey, it's, we're cash flow neutral for the last month, right? Yeah, for the first time as a professional, we are neutral. And then after that, it's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven miscuts in a row. And what was that? I mean, and just looking at that, it's not like they're bad. It's 73, 73, 74, 70. It's not like she's blowing up. It's like she's raised her floor. She's

just not getting that great round or the putts aren't following or whatever. Anything you remember from that stretch? Like Toledo, Arkansas, Indianapolis. Yeah. Kind of a bleak part in the schedule, but a part in the schedule where she could drive a lot from home. I mean, what I really remember from that stretch is, you know, we were probably one miss. I'm assuming she made the cut after that seventh event, right? Yeah, she made the cut. Well, it was interesting. I'm looking at it. She played the Canadian Women's Open. She shoots 69, which is by far, which is her best opening round there, which I thought was interesting given recent events and all of that. And then she'd 76, but then makes the cut in Portland following 71, 71, 77, 75.

Yeah. So I think in between that stretch is where things kind of started to turn around, but also like that's the stretch where her career almost ended for good so after that seventh missed cut in a row she came to me it was like I'm out of money and we know we had never done the joint bank account we had just been married and went straight in the season so we always had everything separated I remember her just coming to me and being like, dude, I'm a thousand dollars short on my credit card bill.

And, you know, I should have some money coming in. I think it was a point where like her quarterly payout from paying, which is, you know, whatever it was, was about to come. But she was like, I'm out. And I'm like, I'm kind of looking at my bank account. I'm like, I'm kind of looking at my bank account. I'm like, well, I'm kind of out too, dude.

I'm not out, but I'll be out if I help you out. Yeah. And I remember it so vividly. I had $1,518 in my bank account and she needed a thousand to cover a credit card bill. And we knew the paying money was gonna come in, so we weren't entirely out, but we were down to our last week. And so I wrote her a check for a thousand bucks and she paid off her credit card.

And I got paid two weeks later. I paid rent. Or, sorry, I paid rent on our house and I remember going down below like $300. I got an email from the bank like, hey, you're checking accounts super low. You're at risk of getting charged or whatever. I'm like, well, there's nothing in the savings account to transfer in, so we kind of figure this out.

She went to the PHC Classic on the Epson tour. It was an off week for the LPGA tour, kind of a stretch where they were about to go to France and things like that. So she went down there to kind of get a start in and to try to get something and called me from the parking lot maybe two and a half hours before tea time. Like she had kind of just gotten to the golf course and I mean she had the mental breakdown that you hear the guys talk about, like you've heard Max talk about,

and you've heard just kind of these pros, when they get to the pits of professional golf, she had that breakdown. And, you know, she lost it for two, two and a half hours on the phone with me, didn't warm up for a tee time. And kind of went straight away to the golf course and just played.

I believe she, you know, we kind of talked about it and she, I just convinced her. I was like, look, if you need to withdraw, withdraw, but you're there. Everything's paid for. Like, if this is it, go out on your terms and don't let the last memory you had of missing a cut be how you end your career.

Go out and just enjoy these three days and play and see what happens. If at the end of those three days you still want to give it up, come home and I'll support you and we'll figure it out. Then she shot 16 under for a three three day event and won the golf tournament. $15,000. Yeah, or whatever it was. $20,000. Where was that? Like what? That was... So I wish the...

Milwaukee. I think it's Milwaukee. Okay. I can't even find the results to this stuff because they don't even keep the records. Yeah. I can't even find the results to this stuff because they don't even keep the record. I think it could be wrong, but I think it was, I think it was Milwaukee or something like that. It was where, is it the place where Tiger made his debut? Yeah. Brown Deer Park, PHC Classic.

Yeah. Okay. So actually it's all on Wikipedia, but it's not on LPGA, Symmetra tour or anything like that. Yeah. $15,000. I feel like somebody- Party Ardina. Oh yeah.

One shot. Yeah. I feel like somebody listening to this podcast right now is probably the one who put this on Wikipedia and would actually know where to find that information. We need to get you on Wikipedia. You're not listed as a spouse or anything like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like what's the, so what's the, like, did she call

you after the round? I was like, holy shit, I found something. Or was it just kind of like, you know, man, I'm getting by on Gritt and Guile. It was very much, it was very much the don't talk to a pitcher when he's still in a no hitter situation. Like I think when we talked after that first round, we talked about everything but golf. I was like, I am not bringing this up. Like that's cool.

But I'd seen her kind of shoot some under par rounds leading up to this on the LPGA and then kind of having that tough second day or tough third day or whatever it was. And then she kind of backed it up on the second the second day it was like okay you know this is this is cool like this is this is something but you know what does it really mean it doesn't count towards any of our LPGA status she's still staring second stage of Q school in the face like it costs all this money like it costs all this money it's you know if this money. It's, you know, if you miss

out a second stage, you're back to Epson. You don't even have a chance. Yeah. So it kind of just that third, that third round, she played super good. I think she, she might have birdied like three of her last five or something to win by one. And so at the end of the day, like, yeah, it was cool, but I don't think I've it fully sunk in it was just like man like she won 15 or $17,000 or whatever it was and that's a huge burden off our back It was the absent event or the Symmetra tour always had a qualifier for that EVEON championship Neither of us had any idea that this was the event that qualified you for the EVEON So if you finished first or second, you went to Evian.

So it's like, okay, well here's $15,000, $17,000. Now go spend all of that to go to France and play in a major. That you have no business probably playing in. Think I remember this correctly. I think Doddy did not go and she finished second. She didn't go, but because of the costs associated with going to Evian. Did you guys have a conversation about that? Was it a consideration not to go or was it

just like this is my first major? Yeah I think it was more of like hey this is a major you know we didn't know everything about Evian at that point it was like you know this is a major like you've got to take the opportunity to play in this and you know she had a sponsor at the time who was helping her with some travel stuff who helped us with flights and things like that so we were able to make the trip over there but it was I mean it's a it's a professional win on the second I would argue the second strongest tour in women's golf there could be an argument for the LAT as well. But in terms of depth, that was a big time win as we got away from it and put it into perspective.

So she goes to Avion, misses the cut, but was that a, hey, kind of hammers at home, hey, I want to do this? That was a great experience? Yeah. So I went over for, of course you know on the LPJ tour when you play internationally you pay your caddy a weekly rate and for anything international you also cover their flights as well Okay, so in another move to kind of save money I went over and caddyed for it took the week off work and flew over to France and I don't remember what we shot or But I remember she played pretty well and didn't miss the cut by that many.

You know, it was like, okay, this is kind of close. Something's there. You know, we're not 10 miles away anymore. We're kind of getting close. And so did that, and then it was actually a nice, Evian did a pro-am that Monday after for anyone who missed the cut. So I think they paid her four or five thousand dollars to do that.

Which kind of covered our week, which was just a huge help. And then rest of the season, I mean, looking on here, it looks like that was her last start the rest of the season. You're just switching over to Symmetra or Epson, I guess Symmetra at that point basically saying, hey, we're going to double down and try to get the card through that because we have a win in the back pocket. No, so there's other starts that year. I don't know where they are or why they're not showing up. So because she had finished seventh at Q school, she had a full LPGA card. because she had finished seventh at Q school, she had a full LPGA card.

So you can't take up Epson tour membership. Okay. Or some extra tour membership. So you can't even be on that, that points list or that money list. No. So hers was a non-member when accounts for really nothing. And the money's like unofficial money. So, yeah, cause on the LPGA site it's showing that was her last start. I mean, that was September 13th. That was her last start of the year. I feel like that's not right, but it could have been.

So I mean, bottom line is the, you know, 2018 12,000 in earnings on LPGA. Yeah. You know, he got another 15,000 on Epson. And then, so you're kind of, I feel like there's just always these, even since we've known you guys, it's always been like these weird kind of middle grounds where like, there's this, there's kind of subjective, positive or optimism to be, you know, to kind of draw upon, but also you're looking at it and you're like, man, like, all right, I have shitty status this year or, you know, but I still have a card or, you know, it's, it's like glass half full.

Yeah, it's, it's interesting. Like, I think Lauren very much those first two years, 2017, 2018 was really down on everything with professional golf and You know, she'll she'll talk about it now and she's talked about it since but she didn't give it her best effort Like she wasn't she was out there grinding She was grinding like going to events and working hard at those events but when she was home like she was so beat down by the game and the grind of that life. There would be weeks where she'd come home for an entire off week and the clubs didn't come out until two days before she flew to the next city.

She wasn't taking as good a care of herself in the gym and with nutrition. You could see her body had started to change from a physical standpoint. She had lost a lot of the strength she had gained in college and she was pretty down on it in that kind of really dark spot where it's hard to get out of bed and go do something when you know it's just gonna punch you back in the face.

And her kind of college career had just been this slow, steady upward trajectory. She walked on at UVA and slowly built up every year and got better every year and got to the peak of college golf, being an ACC champion and All-American. Then it just fell off a cliff when she turned professional after those couple state-up-and-wins. I think she had just really lost a passion for it. It was never something she dreamed about, not being a heavily recruited player. You know, pro golf was never the end game.

I think she was just like, OK, I gave it a chance. Like, it's it's OK. Like, I'm ready to be done. Yeah. And I just. Probably part of this was me not being a golfer, but I had like this attitude that like, Hey, if you're going to quit, like that's cool, but don't quit because you're tired of trying. Like go try. And if you're not good enough, that's okay. Yeah. If the game's telling you, Hey, there's no place for you. That's one thing. But

unless you've truly answered that question, you know, don't quit on that account. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, when we kind of, we got to a good place after 2018 with, with her coach and talked about it. And it's just like, you know, we're going to go back to Q school. We're going to get our card back and you're going to go all in. And at the end of the year, we'll reevaluate and see where you're at mentally, physically, whatever it is. But there's enough good stuff here to continue on. Yeah, exactly. And she had kind of started to see that like, hey, you know, I think being out

there that whole year on the LPGA tour kind of showed her what her peers were doing, that she wasn't. And once she kind of stepped back at the end of the season and started looking at that, I think she started to see it a little bit. And so kind of got a game plan together, went to Q school kind of the same way her career's gone from the start. It was the first year of Q series where they introduced the Q series program where there was 45 cards.

The tour told us that you were getting 45 cards, like 45 girls would get LPGA tour cards. What I don't think they understood yet or knew was that only the top 20 cards were really worth anything. And so a couple may get a few starts in the middle of the season, but you're going to get, you're going to get your start when Hawaii was at the beginning of the season, right? You're going to get that start and you're probably then going to get some mid season starts when it's Toledo or shop right it or whatever it is and so she finished 43rd she barely barely got a card back but thought it was a

full card which is probably a good thing because she she prepared that offseason to play a full LPGA tour schedule is this when we met her yeah offseason no it's that yeah it was after the 2019 season. After 2019. Okay. Yeah. So then she gets into the season and realizes, all right, I've only got, I think she only got one start, right?

Yeah. Hawaii. Hawaii was her only start. But that was the first off season where things were different. I think she lost 30 pounds that off season. It was super focused and dedicated in the gym and had kind of through that strength training had started to pick up the length and the speed that that she needed to compete out there and so came out and really get the place realized very

quickly after she missed the cut in Hawaii that she wasn't gonna get many other starts and so kind of just made the decision that, hey, I can either play a split schedule and probably have to go to Q school or I can realize I'm only gonna get five or six LPGA starts and it's gonna be hard to keep my card that way. So we decided that she would do Epson again and kind of grind out that whole season

and try to get one of those top 10 cards. And then from there, kind cards. And then from there. And then from there. That's where it's like, so I distinctly remember this because she messaged and I think she was going down to Q school and we met for coffee on the way back to school. And you know, so, so a, how did that absent tour season go? Yeah, it went really well. I don't remember exactly where she finished on the list. I want to say she finished like 15th on the Epson list and had a really solid year,

like ton of top tens just didn't get like that, that win. Yeah. Right. But there's clarity there where she's like, there's momentum. I want to keep doing this. I feel like I'm getting better. It's like, yeah, the player that I was this year on the Epson tour would beat me on the LPJ tour last year, five and four. Just a significantly better player, 20 yards longer off the tee. Like really it was just a horrendous putting was the only thing holding it back. Could not get the ball in the hole, but was hitting it super solid, longer, straighter, and just really kind of

getting back to that, the ball striking ways that she had in college. And then from that perspective, so you don't have like, like out on Nepsin, you don't really have the same, I'm sure the ping dealer, the titleless deal isn't the same. You have no deals. Yeah, no deal. Right. So yeah, totally what you kill. You know, at this point, are you still, you're still progressing with your career at UVA? Yeah. Are you at this point? Yep. So I was into fundraising right before we started that 2018 LPGA

season. I made the jump, which comes with a nicer title and better pay. It also comes with more strenuous travel on my part. So I wasn't out as much, I wasn't around as much that 2018, 2019 season. I was traveling a very heavy, every other week, two to four day travel schedule in my own job. And you're just asking people,

you're just beating the doors for, donate to your alma mater. Yes, yeah, we really need the money. It'll do great things here. The university has no money, please help. For 25 cents a day, you can help the university. So I think that was an interesting time because she was out doing the Epson grind

and it was actually, she was one of the few being a top 20 player on that tour where she was pretty financially self-sufficient. We weren't really making any money with her playing golf, but we were breaking even though we were getting by. Yeah. Exactly. I think for me that's when it started to get really hard because we were apart so much

that year. I think I did the math. I think we were at 225 days apart that year out of 365 and I'm traveling, she's traveling, we're both staying in mediocre hotels on other sides of the country. That was, I think, the first time I started to seriously think about, okay, if we're going to do this, I want to be out there. We need to find a way to make this sustainable.

From just a quality of life perspective, it wasn't super sustainable at that point. Yeah. And then, and just for context, I mean, you know, on the women's side, like she's floating around what 400 or 50 in the world at this point where. Yeah, probably somewhere down there. Maybe might've been in the 500s coming off the LPGA year where she missed so many cuts. So you come through 19 then she has a strong, you know, relatively strong year, but no, no card to show for it. And then going into 20s and then she went to Q school, right? Yep.

And kind of finished in that same like mid thirties boat, got another partial card back something that's not super full. And then, you know, did the same thing. I think missed the cut in Hawaii. I realized she wasn't going to get a ton of starts and was like, all right, back to Epson. Yeah. And then, okay. So, so it gets five starts in 2020. And you're thinking, all right, this is, you know, what are we kind of, how sustainable is this? Or it's so close because she's like right on the, she's just right on the wrong side of the, of the bubble there.

Yeah. But it probably feels so far away too, right? Yeah. It's, I mean, it did and it didn't like, I think, I don't know if you have the LPD results pulled up right now, but there was like a one-off event they did, I think down in Georgia. Yeah. I think she finished 34th. Yeah. The drive on, I was like, it was COVID year too, right? So it did the drive on the one in Toledo, she played in, didn't play well. Yeah. In Inverness, right?

Yeah. And then plays Toledo and then Arkansas misses cuts and then makes a cut in Portland. And then plays pretty nice in Reynolds plantation. Seven finishes T-34. I remember that being a big one. I remember talking to her after that event. I was actually down in Mimosa Hills playing golf that Sunday with Isaac. I remember I got more emotional after that one than when she went on the Epson Tour. It was her best finish on the LPGA Tour and it's just like, you know, after a year of going back to Symmetra and kind of humbling yourself and kind of taking a step backwards to try to take that step forward,

I just, I remember that one to me felt like, hey, something's here, we're working towards something. You know? It's like, you know, it's like the FCS team that is tied with Alabama at halftime. It's like, you know, it's like the FCS team that is tied with Alabama at halftime. It's like, you know, we're not winning, but like, this is pretty good. It's a moral victory. We're playing decent.

You know, this is cool. You know, we've got those screenshots. I just remember too, like thinking, all right, we're in the boat at this point, you know, 19 into 20. We're like, you know, I mean, shit, man, I'm checking Epson tour leaderboards and getting frustrated that they don't have hole by hole scoring or that sort of thing. But man, it was like one step, but it was like, that's a perfect example. 69 in the first round, 75 in the second round, then buckles down and plays really well on the weekend, 70, 71.

And I remember, I think Danielle Kang either won or played really well on the weekend 70-71. And I remember I think Danielle Kang either won or played really well that week and remember that tournament like very specifically because it was on the it was on they've got like five courses there but it's on one of the ones around the lake and like people were like jet skating around and stuff. Yeah yeah and Elsie eagled the last hole to finish 34th jumped from like 47th to 34th and put like four grand in her pocket on the one school. It was sick. So then from there, I think that was what, going back to Q school and then getting it done at Q school, right? No, no Q school with COVID. Okay. So 2020 into 2021. Yeah. So no Q school that year. So she came back with that same partial card in 2021 that she had from

Q series and at the end of 2019 and the 2020. And that's where she's just getting, she's basically like improving in her category. Yeah. So the whole goal is to like make a cut and reshuffle up when you're in that limited starts category, you're just trying to get in the current year reshuffle. So, you know, the way the LPGA Tour had had their schedule set up until really this year, Hawaii was kind of the one of the first three or four events of the year. And nobody goes in place,

why it's after the Asia swing or whatever it is. So that was always a big week for the girls in Lauren's position. And it's crazy easy. You're gonna get a few starts. Right? Yeah. It's either gonna blow 40 or you're gonna go stupid low.

And so, Hawaii was kind of that boomer bust event for us. It's like, if you make the cut here, you're gonna reshuffle in in a couple weeks. You're gonna get a full season of starts and have a chance to go compete. If you miss, like you gotta decide are you gonna play a split schedule and chase the Mondays or are you gonna go back and do this Epson thing for the second or third year in a row? So she made the cut in Hawaii that year.

First time she made the cut in Hawaii, I had come down there for that event. And she made the cut, played decent, I think she finished in the 40s, but it doesn't really matter so much where you finish as much as just making that cut because you're going to jump all the girls in your same category above you who didn't make that cut because you've earned a point. You've earned a CME point or however many CME points you've earned.

So if you make that cut, you're playing a full schedule the rest of the year. And then she beat 25, 28 people for good measure too, that also made the cut. Yeah. Yep. Played in the 40s, finished in the 40s, you know, played pretty solid. Yeah. And so kind of shuffled up after Hawaii into a pretty full schedule with the exception of the majors and like the Asia swing, things like that, but had a full card. She still even, yeah, she came back, made a cut in Williamsburg and then misses a few cuts but plays KPMG Women's PGA. I remember that. And then finishes T-19 beginning of

July. But it's, I mean, I think even then, like, it's still crazy that July 1st week she finished his T-19 and that's what her sixth start of the year. So it's kind of, you know, you got to stay hot or you got to stay sharp without a whole lot of competition. Six starts in her six months of the L.P.G.A Tour season. Yeah. Cause when you come back for Hawaii, it's still a couple more, a few more weeks before that reshuffle category happens.

So her status wasn't getting her into those events in between, so we basically had to sit there and wait for the reshuffle category. And so she probably lost three or four starts while she was waiting for things to reshuffle. So then you get to June, July, and you're a handful of starts into the season. And now you've got to go try to keephuffle. So then you get to June, July and you're, you know, a handful of starts into the season and now you've got to go try to keep your card, finish

top 100 when 144 other girls have gotten a full load of starts. Yeah. Yeah, this is where it's like, you know, people are probably listening and they're like, oh my god, this is so procedural or technical or whatever, but it's kind of like that's the business of professional golf, right? It's like, it's these little wins. It's these little, you know, seemingly small obstacles, but that add up to that open this little door here or there, or that, you know, lead to, hey, that led me to three more starts and I found something here. And, you know, and I, I maximize that because that's where looking at it, she, you know,

put our, I then goes over to say it was at Northern Ireland, right? Like really well hand in Northern Ireland, Algoram castle. Yeah. That's no. So, so there's a $17,000 check in Texas and there's $16,000 one there. She plays well at Portland, makes a cut in Arkansas. And then it's kind of like, all right, we're running downhill. We're trending a little bit. And then I remember she played really, really well at Founders Cup in October of that year. And that was like, all right, we're, you know, there's something here and this is, this is leading to like a full, you know, full on card card, right? Like pick your schedule or know what you're doing. And I remember,

correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember like she played excellent at founders cup, $25,000 check. And then she has like a month off or maybe maybe an Epson tour event or something like that. And then played down at Pelican in Tampa. Yeah, so that's the thing too about where these women that are on split cards are struggling, right? You just kind of read off the results. She was playing really good golf, but she had only had 13 or 14 starts

to that point in the season. And then the Asia swing happens, and so you're off. And they kind of come straight back from the Asia Swing from that Japan event and go to Pelican, which I believe that year was a new event or maybe their second year having the event. And so Lauren's playing good. She's made probably $100,000 on the golf course or whatever it was, which is a huge deal. We're not rich, but we're cash flow positive and you know, she's

finished in top 20 top 25 in a few events and then you know, they kind of throw the brakes on you at that point and and you're you're in a holding pattern and founders was huge for her because wherever she finished it moved her up to a hundred and seventh on the CME points list and We were kind of like, okay, you know, top 100 keep their cards, we're going to have to go to Pelican and get it done. But it's realistic at that point, right? It's not like top five. It's like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're on Bubblewatch, but it's like, they're going to talk about it, right? And

so that was the first event or the first year of that event. And Pelican went off of last year's priority list. They did not use the current year reshuffle in any way for that event. So Lauren was not in the field for that event. She was like first alternate or going in or something, right? Or did they give her a sponsor exemption? No, she was out. And so it was kind of like, okay, you know, we've done the Q school thing. We're not in the field. Like, we'll try to go get in the tournament. But if it doesn't happen, like,

we've been playing good golf, we'll take care of business at Q school. And so we came down for the NIT. She was very adamant that she wanted there to be some fun golf before she went through this pressure patch stretch. That was the weekend before, right? That was the weekend before. She came down, captured her fourth professional victory at the include the state opens. I didn't put too into it. That was 2021.

I was thinking that was 22. So, the gets the NIT victory, you know, I think celebrates with y'all and probably drinks too much wine and then goes Sunday and gets ready for the Monday qualifier and wins Monday qualifier for Pelican and gets in the field and, least has a chance to go keep her card. And that was a huge deal, right? It's like, you're in the fight. What you do is up to you, but you've got a chance. Also, going back to NIT, she played so fucking well. That was a really bad weather year, right?

It was a really bad weather year. Right. It was a really bad weather year. It was like we were playing in a hurricane and Huber's playing like we got all sorts of, you know, really good players playing and he's playing from the same teams as everybody. And I mean, just like beat the brakes off of everybody like playing truly brilliant golf. And this is, I love Huber to death. This is no shade at him. But I remember her coming up to me after the first round when it was brutal conditions and she goes, and this Huber still had status, like he was playing at this point.

Yeah, yeah, he was playing like a corn fairy tour, you know, conditional. She goes, she goes, I just beat Huber by two or three straight up from the same tees. She was like, that was really good golf. I know I think Bethann wrote an article about it, but the NIT legitimately gave her confidence in herself after that month layoff. To go out there, and I think she shot like 69 the first round in 40 mile an hour winds raining sideways at Jack's with like TC pins like Wherever you know those pins. Yeah, and it was like it was like 44 degrees

like it got yeah, I started getting colder and colder and colder and then I was drinking so much because we're Hold up waiting for you know, the weather to clear and it didn't so we just went out and playing Yeah, but yeah, and then yeah. And then she goes out and shoots 65 in the first round of Pelican. Right? Yep. Shots 65 in the first round of Pelican, truly white knuckling at that night thinking about it probably. But it was in the top 10 or top 15 of the golf tournament at that point. And I'd kind of been doing a ton of back of napkin math that whole week. I figured she needed to finish about the 25th or better to keep her card, which her best finish on tour to that point was 19th. So still a big ask to jump up. I don't think

she played great the second day. She shot 68th Friday, 68, and then 70. Yeah, I think that 68 though, I think it was pretty easy that day if I remember correctly. I think she backed up a little bit by shooting 68, you know, kind of fell back right around to that number. And then Saturday played a little tougher and kind of moved up with the 68, but went out and you know, at this point she had kind of figured it out where she needed to finish the golf tournament and was in a good position but then draws a Sunday pairing with Jess Gorda. Like yeah, at the time playing really good golf just like kind of one of those star struck

pairings. For someone in Lauren's position she was not playing with the likes of a Corda or Alexi or any of those girls. It's like two different towers, right? Yeah, because the LPGA does A, B, and C tee times. So your winners, your top 20 players, whatever, they're your feature group middle of the TV window. The B is kind of the meat of the tour.

The girls that are finishing 30th to 80th on the points list and then Your C times are your first couple times off your last couple times off in each wave And those are the girls that are kind of limited starts one day qualifiers sponsors invites So Lauren had always been playing out of that C category and wasn't Getting exposure because she wasn't making cuts to the big-name players I remember that just being like, really? Like, she's got to go play with fucking Jess Corder while she's trying to like fight for her life out here,

you know? And played super solid, but the last hole at Pelican, the finishing hole at Pelican, has this really like kind of narrow, firm green. It's one of the firmest greens on the golf course, and there's water all in front of it. And so she came to the last hole. She ended up needing just to make bogey, but at the time she thought she needed to make

par to retain her LPJ Tour card. And it was really cool to see her get back to who she was as a player in that moment, in that pressure situation. I'm probably going to get the numbers wrong here, but I think she had like a hundred and sixty yards to the hole and It was on paper. It's a perfect six iron and she's just like if I miss hit this at all like it's in the water I'm making bogey or double and she just looked at her caddy at the time and said I'm gonna hit a 30 yard cut with a 5 hybrid and this thing is getting over the fucking water and I'll deal with whatever happens next. And just like I saw the shot on TV, I wasn't there, but she just like hits this like true field shot, something you never practice and hits this big high like butter cut

that cuts like 20 or 25 yards with this five hybrid and it goes like eight feet past the pen. And she kind of, I think she two putted her way and retained her car. But it goes like eight feet past the pin. And she kind of, I think she two-putted her way and retained her car. But it was like, that was where like, you kind of started to see the dog come out in her. Like, no, I am who I am. I'm going to do it my way. And I'm going to hit the shot that I know I can hit

in the most pressure situation in my entire career. And that's, yeah. I still remember that of like being, I think I was with, I was like watching with DJ that night. And I just remember being like, like, I don't think I've ever been more excited. It's like when Max won at Riviera, when Max won at Wells Fargo, Warren won at, you know, Canada. Like those were probably the moments watching Justin Lauer play. Like, but it truly, yeah, it truly felt like, oh my God, like, I think this is getting over the hump, at least,

from a perspective of, you know, hey, things just got a lot easier, right? Or you can actually figure out how good you are instead of having to worry about your seat at the table. And I think that was the biggest thing of like, man, like it just felt like, oh my gosh. All right. Now, now Lauren can actually worry about, she can play a full, full schedule. She doesn't have to play the category game or the priority ranking game. She can just go out and like put her chips on the table

and say, all right, like, am I good enough? Right? Yeah. You're going to get in every event doing that except for the majors and the Asia Swing to start the year. So you're basically, you're playing a full, full schedule and you can kind of, like you can pick and choose. If you don't want to play five weeks in a row, you have the liberty to take a week off because you're going to get in every single event except for those few. And so that, I mean, it was massive. It was since 2018, that's the first time she's been able to pick and choose a schedule and commit to a tour and kind of go chase it again, you

know, four years later or whatever it was. It's really funny, man. Like that was thinking about that. That feels like it was six years ago. That was less like a lifetime. It was less than three years ago. That was 20, you know, 2020. It was November 2021. And then, yeah. So I mean, what's that off season like? I've just known, all right, I got a full LPGA Tour card. I truly feel like I've got a level of comfort or a level of stability here. Probably better sponsorships as well that come with that of slightly. Like I know, I know the margins are thin on the ladies. Yeah, you're getting your, you're getting your club deal back and you're getting your

ball deal back and you know, a couple of things like that. It's, it's interesting. It's, you know, shout out Chris Long played football at Virginia and the NFL for a while, but he said when the Eagles went on their Superbowl like hungry dogs run faster. And it truly felt like Lauren got the taste and got hungry and was like, all right, I can go do this and it's time to go. And like I've worked to get back here. I've rededicated myself, now I'm gonna double down on myself. And that off season was a different her in the gym and it was a different her just in the way she practiced and the confidence that she had.

And I'm here now, it's time to go get it and set my goals and go chase them. And I think that off season was just totally different in the way she kind of saw it and prepared for it and kind of went after it. And then coming out, it seemed like then it was just a little bit of still putting, right? It's still, you know, there's still, you know, the ball striking is there. It's just like the putting is just not, you know, not up to snuff. And I remember it kind of, there's, yeah, there's little like, you know, there's little glimmers, right? Like there's, you know, she comes out the first three or four months of that season in 22 and

plays well, but it's, you know, doesn't play well on a Saturday or doesn't play well on a Sunday. And then comes back, like I remember Founders Cup played really well and then Shoprite. She was like, she was up there like one of the final groups. She was in the final group. Yeah, she was the final group. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. Like the, the putting thing was just,

has always been there Achilles heels. And she turned pro. She was pretty good putter in college, but just kind of lost it when she turned professional for whatever reason. But Terry McNamara is a guy who's cutting for now for folks haven't heard. He caddied for Annika for 69 of her worldwide wins. He's an absolute legend. And

Lauren got paired with him and he was working for IK Kim at the KPMG up at Congressional. And he told me this story when he reached out about working for it. But that's where I was going next So perfect. Yeah perfect timing. Yeah Yeah, so he watched Lauren play the first two days. She played great. I remember which she just set up that we hit Solid like they couldn't figure out the setup that week. So she shot 74 69 and was like Up near the top of the leaderboard, I think. Yeah, she was in the top 25, I think, after top 25, top 30, like made the cut comfortably at even par or one under or whatever it was.

But Terry told me, he was like, you know, I was watching this girl and he said, I saw, I watched her hit the golf ball and I was just like, oh my gosh, like, who is this? Like, how do I not know her name? He goes, and then I watched her putt. And I said, well, that's unfortunate. Which he's not wrong. So, yeah, just didn't, still could not figure it out. Probably went through 15 to 20 puttages that season,

just trying to figure it out. But through the work he had done. out probably went through 15 or 20 putters that season just trying to figure it out. But that particular week at KPMG, she made 114 grand. And I remember watching down the stretch because they fucked up the setup where they made it way too long the first day. And I think they overcorrected and brought a bunch of stuff up. And then I think Lexi had that one in the bag and kind of gassed it down the stretch. Yeah. And then like Lawrence shot 73, 73 on the weekend finishes T16 and makes 114 grand like props to KPMG for the money that they put into that tournament. And like you see that, you know, I feel like you hear that, that winner's check and you hear that big purse number, but then you dig in deeper and you realize,

all right, how big that makes that event when, you know, a top 20 gets you a hundred grand. Right? Yeah, it's massive. Cause I remember Solly, I think it was Solly and Randy were there. I think y'all were still doing some stuff with KPMG at the time covering the event. And Sally was walking around with me on Friday when Lauren was kind of making a run. And he said, have you looked at how much

Last Place pays this week? And I was just like, I don't want to know. Like, I don't want to think about it. And he was like, it's more than she's ever made in an event if she makes a cut and comes in last. It was like, it was either going to be her biggest or second biggest check. I remember on, on Sunday when she, when she finished 16th, I texted Sally and I was like, well, 16th pays a hell of a lot more than last.

It's just funny too, where like, I feel like everybody's so desensitized to money golf now. It's just funny too where like, I feel like everybody's so desensitized to money golf now, but then we've just rattled off the last six years of Lauren's results from 16 to 22. And then you float a number like that and you're like, oh, okay, cool. Then that's from a points perspective, that's not necessarily what she needed a T16, but from a financial perspective, it's like, all she needed a T16, but from a financial perspective, it's like, all right, you know what, here's another validation. I'm on the right track. Yeah. It's a six figure check. I think it's more than she, it might've been, she might've

earned that much in 2022, but on the LPGA tour, but it might've eclipsed like more than she's ever made in a single year on tour. And so it's just like getting in a major is a big deal. KPMG was the easiest major to get into, but if I can just get in these events, I can go compete and I can compete with the best in the world. And I can see where I stack up. And she did that for the first time in her career,

really in a really strong field at Congressional. And then I felt like, I don't know, after that, just, I remember 22 of like, she played really well in Northern Ireland, played the women's open, the Scottish Open before that, Evian like missed those cuts and then played really well in Northern Ireland, T16 there. She was 765 at the Canadian Open and it's like, all right, I think she found something. And then from there she made one, two, three, four, five, six, seven cuts in a row to finish the season. And yeah.

So yes, made a caddy change after Canada. Parted with, with caddy who was one of my best friends out here who had been working with her since 2019. Made a change kind of after that rough stretch and went on a nice run to end the season. Hired someone that was more veteran, Cady, someone who's been out here for 20 or 30 years. And I think it was a really good thing for her to get a different perspective. She had only really had one full-time caddy as a professional. And to see things from a different light and to hear things from a different perspective and to hear from somebody who had been around the game. Just little things that

he introduced into her practice, into her post-round cool downs. Little things like that, that he had drawn on, I think was huge for her. Kind of propelled her after she shot up that 65 in Canada to kind of go take that next step in the season. So she finishes that season and then into 23. What's the- At the end of 22, that was the first Asian swing event she got into. She got into the Korea event. Yeah.

We ate a lot of steak. And that was like a huge deal. I remember how excited she was. I think she was the last player in the field or something. But to get into one of those events, we've talked a lot about validation. That was another piece of validation for her. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm getting into the Asia swing. That means I'm not a

top 120 player out here. I'm a top 80 player out here. It's like topping up on points and it's like getting into the WGC's or something back when... Yeah, you know, you're taking a business class flight over there with the tournament covers and you're getting a guaranteed check. And if you play halfway decent, it's going to be a nice check. And it's just, it's kind of that reward for the hard work. No, that was fun. I still remember how excited she was when I was like, Hey, we're going to Korea. She's like, I'm going to see over there. Then we meet her and you know, we went out for stakes and went bowling. It was, it was fun. It was a really, really fun week.

It's a weird, weird resort that was out. But yeah, and then I feel like, I don't know, looking back at last year, it just felt like it was just like she raised her floor, right? Like she, you know, she missed some cuts here or there, but when she made a cut, it was like a top 25. It was, you know, it was, it was a T15 at, you know, women's PGA. It was a top 20 at the match play. I thought she played really well at match play. Shadow Creek was extremely tough. Super good. Yeah.

Yeah. T6 at Canada. I feel like Canada is like a theme in her career. And then finish is really strong. Goes over to China, T21, and then Korea, T10, and had a much better course over there than the one the prior year. So I mean, I feel like it was kind of like, all right, that validates it. It's another step forward, right? It's like, hey, I kept my card without a lot of stress at the end of the year, right? No stress. Yeah.

And that kind of started at Congressional, that 2022, it started there. We knew she was going to be good on her card after that event. You didn't have to think about it. You didn't have to worry about it. You got enough points to basically lock up your status, assuming you didn't do anything stupid. And so then it was, okay, I don't have to worry about any of the stuff that I've had to worry about for the last six years. It's let me go, let me go be a competitor.

Let me go try to compete. And, you know, if I need to try to pull off a shot to get my first top 10, I'm not scared to pull that shot off anymore. Go try to win. If I need to, if I need to, you know, go for a par five to try to win a golf tournament like I can, I remember Canada in 2023, you said that T6, like played so, so solid on the weekend and like went and tried to chase it down

and had, you know, Megan ended up kind of taking away with it but gave herself a chance to get in the mix for a win, which was kind of the first time that she chased it down. What is your, like through that kind of stretch from women's PGA 2022 to 2023, are you kind of getting burned out on your job? Are you like, all right, this is within reach or just head down and let her take care of this? And if she keeps trending the way she does, then this will take care of itself. No, I mean, and she'll tell you, like, probably starting in 2019 or 2020, I joked about like

quitting my job and coming out. And I think I thought I was joking about it too, until I wasn't. I was a mediocre athlete, but I was an athlete myself. And so I understood the competition side of things and how much that takes out of you and you know I played a team sport so I realized the value of a team and I spent a lot of time thinking about how she was always alone. She didn't bring her parents out on the road with her or any of that stuff that a lot of girls do. When she turned professional she went out on her own and had to grow the fuck up.

As her career had gone on, I just kept thinking about the missed cuts. You had mentioned like in 80 and 2018 and just having to go and sit in a hotel room with your thoughts after blowing an opportunity or not playing your best and that always wore on me, probably because I was sitting at home in my thoughts as well about it. And so I thought a lot about that and then when she kept her card in 21, I really started to think about it.

It's like, okay, she's making a little bit of money, like we're getting close here to where this could be a possibility. And 22, I think her earnings for that year were $299,000. And so, you know, she's making a good living for someone in their late twenties after expenses, but we're not to that point yet where we should go one income. And then 2023, when she finished 15th at Baltimore and made that $120,000 check or whatever it

was, I really started to think about it. And so we got to July or August of last year. And I kind of said, hey, I've said this a lot the last six years, but I'm not joking. Like I want to talk about what this would look like if I came out with D full time. And a lot of it was just to be together and to experience it. You know, I'm not oblivious to I look around this tour and 31 is old out here. It's not as old for an American but it's still old on this tour by a long shot. I was at the Red Sox game last night with Alexa Pano's dad.

Alexa Pano is 20 years old and has been out here two years already. Lydia is 27 or however old she is and is probably retiring at the end of this year. You're telling me. I posted something like, hey, I'm so good to be this late career resurgence on the main no laying up account the other day. I also got 30 DMs from people of late career. She's 27. I'm like, dog, she's retiring in the next three years.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, Lexi, Lexi's a, you know, I know Lexi very well, 29 years older, however old she is. She's done with the full golf schedule after this year. I kept looking at Lauren and 26 comes and then 30 comes. It's just like, at that time I didn't know. She wasn't a tour winner. She'd never had her cards secured for more than the year that was in front of her. It was like, how much longer do we have to do this?

Will we sit and look back at this in a long time and be like, why didn't we do it? The only thing we can't get back is this time. And so I jokingly said, I'll write you a proposal of why this should work and why it will work. That proposal ended up turning into a three hour phone call when she was on the road. And we talked through every bit of it. My initial goal was to come out here and kind of manage everything that was Lauren, you know.

Go to the gym with her, cook her food on the road, you know, handle media, handle sponsors, whatever it looked like. Just kind of be the person. Yeah, lockdown sponsors, like, let's take advantage of you becoming a top hundred player in the world and let me handle everything so you can continue to push your chips all in in golf because what I realized is the more she kept pushing

her chips in, the more she kept getting back. The more she kept getting in return for that effort and it's like, all right, does she need to be worrying about booking a rental car or driving three hours to this event or can I take some of that stress off of her plate? And if it doesn't work out, we'll figure it out from there. But I'm very much in my belief in the way I do things,

I'm all in. And if we're gonna do this, let's go all in and see how fucking good you can be at this. And you know what? It's okay if it doesn't work out. I'll go back to work or we'll go back to work, you know, if things don't go well out here, but like you're 31, go figure it out

because we're running out of time. And maybe we'll fucking make it like maybe it'll happen. How different is your role out there than you thought it would be? And it was in that proposal entirely different. I mean, you know, my first event out was Saudi went over to Saudi kind of did that and then how was that into the Asia swing. Just weird as shit.

I mean, yeah, I'm from small town Virginia. I was lost. I was lost. She probably had to manage me that week because I was so out of place. But so we did Saudi, she missed a cut there and it ended up like Saudi ended up being the best thing that happened to her because she putted so bad in Saudi and Me being there. I saw it. She couldn't you know, it wasn't I'm just looking at the stats cards and she can kind of Paint it in a better light than it was like I watched it up close I watched her three putt from two feet Can't explain it. Oh

You can't explain it away And so I called her college assistant coach that night and was like we got to talk like something's not right here and so she was at such a low point after that she kind of bought in and we had that conversation and he He literally introduced her to one drill that has totally transformed her game. And that's when things started to pick up. And so she putted pretty good in Thailand and then she putted pretty good in Singapore and pretty good in China.

And you saw the little incremental pieces starting to happen where she was not having her best ball striking day and shooting 67 or 68 because she was holding a few putts. It just kind of slowly started to build there. And then when China finished, she split with her caddy. Who was the caddy she had split with after Canada a couple of years ago? She had rehired him and then they split. So she splits with him after four top 30-ish finishes to start the year. Like clearly her, she's raised her floor.

She's trying to shoot in the 60s every round. Yeah I mean they're top 30s but they're in the Asia swing events. They're 66, 70 player fields, no cut. Gotcha. Bradenton, that first event to start the year, she was in the top 10, going into the last three holes and had a little bit of a rough finish. And then those Asia events like Thailand or Singapore,

one of the two, she was almost in last after the first round. Just wasn't quite putting four days together, so decided to make a change after China and there just really wasn't any caddies that fit her eye available and so my role went from hey you're gonna come out here and once we figure out our schedule you might go do some caddying for someone else because she knew that's something I was interested in pursuing to hey I need you I need you until I find somebody. And so I was supposed to do a week and that week turned into a six week trial. That was your first week was LA?

Palace Red Ace. Yep, Palace Red Ace. Yep. And so Palace Red Ace through the, until she found somebody really okay Yeah, it's he ate this next week at in Arizona Ford Championship gotta go crazy low there minus Yeah, we birdied seven of our last ten holes to make the cut on the number. Yeah Then you got match like

10 holes to make the cut on the number. Then you got match play. It was like 40th or something. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think Chevron started in Phoenix and you have to go back to Phoenix. I booked a fitting at Ping and I was supposed to be her manager and not a working caddy. So I booked it for Monday morning. For you or her? I go for me, I'll go in and get fit for some steaks. King gives clubs to family members. I had never been properly fit, so I was due for some new irons and stuff. We go there and we're there and it's me and then the person down from me on the range is Bubba Watson. Lauren and Bubba start talking and Bubba gets her to try a new wedge.

He said it's a cheat code out of the bunker. She starts trying that wedge and then Bubba goes over to start playing with some putters. Lauren goes over and picks up a PING Oslo 3. It's a head model she had used in the past. She just grabs it off of the fitting rack and starts putting with it and Christian Pena and Tony who runs the PLD part of paying Like see her putting with it Tony walks over and just goes What is that? Is that your putter? Like that's different than anything. I've ever seen before with you and

She just like from the rack had the super good feel it It's an inch and a half longer than any putter she's ever played, but for some reason, it just clicked on that putting green. And so instead of building her one to those specs, they were like, take this one, because we can't get any two putters exactly identical. Take this. So she took it, put it in the bag in Phoenix, and threw, gosh, I think through 26 holes in Phoenix,

she was one over par maybe, and just not playing well. But putting decent and hitting it okay. I remember we got a bad ruling on a hole and ended up making bogey. 10 holes to play, we're seven outside to cut. And so I get in frustration or whatever, I just looked at it, I said, let's just one more birdie we gotta make, you know?

Let's go. And birdie seven, the last 10 holes to make the cut on the number. Just flagging it or making putts or both? Just flagging it. I mean, what we made, yeah, just flagging it. I mean, got some really good numbers, few good clubs from the caddy. I mean, making like a, yeah, just flagging it. I mean, got some really good numbers, a few good clubs from the caddy.

I mean, making like a lot of four footers, five footers, six footers, but just seeing putts go in the hole. And so then the third round played okay, shot one or two under, but teed off in 52nd place, I think. And then went out, Sunday played the first four or five holes in even par,

and she makes a 70 footer on the 15th hole we started on the back. Makes like a 60 or 70 footer for birdie. Then proceeds to birdie 16. So birdie 15, birdie 16, par 17 I think. No, birdie 17, I think. Birdie 17, eagle 18. And so get to 18, coming off 18 green and she's in like T8. In the golf tournament, leaders have not even thought about teeing off yet or thought about starting their warmups.

Then proceeded to hit it to five feet on the first hole left, birdie putt short and ended up shooting eight under that day and went from 50 second to T8 and you know second best finish on tour at that point and just like a ton of momentum of us working together I think and just build on a lot of positive momentum. What's that like? I mean do you guys leave everything at the course? Like if she has a bad day and you're on the bag, is that we're making a conscious effort to leave this shit at the course or are you talking about the rest of the night and figuring out how to do better? I mean, I don't think we've got it perfect in any way, but the way I did it and the way

I proposed it to her when I started, she was very worried about us working together. And I was like, I'm going to be your caddy on the road. Like, we're going to go to the airport and we're going to go to two different rental cars and we're going to be on our own schedules. And like, I'm going to work like you would expect your normal caddy to work. I'm going to be at the golf course Monday through Wednesday, sun up to sundown, prepping, watching you practice, prepping some more. And then on Thursday, I'm going to get to the golf course before you, I'm going to go watch a few players play a few holes before I meet you. And we just very much tried to keep it like a schedule she would have with any other normal caddy.

But you're staying in the same hotel room. Yeah, when you're back in the hotel room, it's like, Hey, let's, let's go get dinner together or be exactly husband and wife. But once it's time to go to work, if we have anything to talk about from the day, it happens at the golf course before we leave. If something spills over into the night, that's okay. But it was very intentional. If something gets talked about at the hotel or the Airbnb, it's Hey, can we talk about this right now? This is on my mind I would like to talk about it

It was like asking each other permission if we needed to talk about something Otherwise, it was done on at the golf course and when we left, yeah, we're husband and wife But this whole time is it still alright. So after that I kind of resets things but after that is it Hey, we're still looking for a Long-term yeah Yeah. So it was really, really good luck. So I was out at Palace Verde that first week we're working together. I was out walking the golf course and kind of doing my thing on Monday, preparing and ran into Gregor Johnson, who carries for for NASA Hataoka, really good friend of mine and Lauren's and a really good friend of Terry McNamara's.

He said, hey, I know I'd said this in the past, but TMAC is interested in working with you. He was like, I know I told you that last time, but what I didn't tell you is just call him. I told Lauren that night, I was like, hey, Gregor said Terry really wants to have a conversation about working with you. I was like, and I think it's a great opportunity and I think you should at least have the phone call. They talked a week of Phoenix and had a really good conversation. Lauren, I talked about it and I was like, look, I think this is the right move. I think it's, you know, it's, this is what you want.

This is who you wanna learn from. Like, go see what having a veteran like this is all about. You've never had one that was this experience. See if it's what you think it's gonna be. And if it's not, you can make a change. We can get back together, whatever it is. So they kind of solidified things around Phoenix, Phoenix into Vegas and agreed to have a start date at Mizuho. Insert Chevron.

Which is weird. So T3, just walk me through that week of like, you're, you know, you've gone from in the span of what? Three months gone from quitting your job, you know, flying to Saudi, flying to Asia, flying, you know, all around the world. And then, yeah. And then, you know, first round 66 and you're leading major championship. And obviously it's, it's something you think about or you should be thinking about if you're caddying for somebody and you have full confidence in your player. Like you think about those moments all the time and how you're going to handle those moments and what those moments are going to look like because you don't want to blink

when you get there. Right? A big part of the reason that I came on the bag and that Lauren made a caddy change at the beginning of the year was she was making too many bogeys. Just carry those stuff. Yeah. 2022, 2023, she's making four birdies around, which is with the likes of Nellie and Lilia. She's on pace with all those girls, but she's making about one bogey around more and

so, you know Really trying to think about how we can eliminate bogeys and me and her coach She's been a coach for 12 years and his wife was our college coach. She married us like super tight relationship there We started talking a lot, especially in 2023 there, we started talking a lot, especially in 2023, about how to eliminate bogeys. And that was part of the reason she made a caddy change is that just she kept making those little mistakes. And a lot of it came down to course management and came down to she needed somebody who could stop her from trying to be the best player in the world with a five hybrid or a four.

Almost almost getting her out of hitting that shot that she hit a Pelican of like, Hey, hey, I'm going to hit this my way instead of like, no, like you don't need to hit this your way this time. Right? Yeah. I mean, not, not so much that, but it's like, Hey man, we've got 190 yards and you have a four hybrid and the pins five from the right, like don't try to hit it to four feet. 12 feet's good. 15 feet's good. 30 feet's good. 30 feet is inside of tour average with that club. Like now you've figured out how to putt. You've got your speed control down. Like we're going to hit it to 30 feet and we're going to putt that and one out of every 15 of those putts it's actually gonna fall in the hole, the hole is gonna get in the way like we're gonna go score with eight, nine, wedge.

Maybe seven if I feel like you're hitting it really really good that day. Once we get six iron, five hybrid, four hybrid, we've got a temperate back, we've got to start aiming into the center of the green and being aggressive to that target. That was kind of a big thing for us. I think it's a big reason why Lauren and I have had success together, especially at major championships is Chevron is a hard golf course. You look at that leaderboard and you look at the scores. If you're a five under, I think you top 10 that week.

And so she's really good off the tee and it's like, yeah, especially on that back nine off the tee and then long irons and the green and all that. Yeah. Long irons, hybrids, woods. It's like, okay, we got to be strategic about where we pick off our places at this golf course and trust that if we eliminate bogeys, if we have a good week, you know, we might make three birdies around four birdies around at the end of the week. If we can keep our bogeys one, one and a half around, we're

going to be in contention. And so, you know, obviously, 66 on Thursday leading a major, I think we were like one of the first tee times off that day. Like it just catches everybody by surprise. They caught her by surprise. But I think we're bogey free too. Yeah, you are. And, you know, she, she hit some shots and we made a lot of really good decisions as a group and group and didn't

chase the issue, didn't force the issue. And so we didn't have that bogey or that mistake that stalled out the route. It didn't turn 66 into 69 or 70 and you're kind of, oh, it was a really good start to the tournament. Now it's like, hey, now we're in it. And then that, I mean, I feel like that's an analogy for the last year and a half, generally speaking too. It's like, hey, you didn't have to worry about your status

going into this year. Oh, you can focus on how to go make putts or how to figure out your course management or how to go make putts or how to figure out your course management or how to improve your game versus just trying to survive and stay alive out here. Right? Exactly. Yeah.

And then what'd you learn that weekend at Chevron? Just both about Lauren and about you. Cause I feel like it was kind of, you know, you back up a little bit on, on Friday with the 73 and then kind of closed on Friday with the 73. Yeah. You know, kind of close strong there towards the end. Yeah. I mean, I thought Friday was, it was really the epitome of what we were trying to work on and the reason I think we started working together is she did not hit it very good on Friday.

Um, sure. Her golf swing just wasn't there, but we only made three bogeys. And you know, that golf course when you're off, you can make six or seven bogeys. Our threes look so hard. The par threes are brutal. I mean, we intentionally missed the green on the third hole once or twice, like just to give ourselves the best chance of making par. But you know, she made three bogeys that day

and we clipped off an eagle on the eighth hole. But it was, it never felt like we forced anything. It never felt like we were chasing anything. It was very much, okay, at the end of this day, there's gonna be 36 holes left in this tournament. We just need to stay in the fight, stay in the fight, stay in the fight. And you know, everyone in this tournament, we just need to stay in the fight. Stay in the fight, stay in the fight. And everyone in this tournament is going to have an off day. Friday is just going

to be our off day. But our off day is going to be even par or one under. It ended up being one over. But just hoping it was even par or one under. So stay patient, stay patient, stay patient, and just kind of got through it. I thought that was huge. That was a spot in the past where she would shoot 75 and kind of fall into, well, now I'm just hoping to have my week. And then coming down the stretch, I felt like it was just really cool to see you guys. Like that was when I was like, man, like John's out on tour. This is awesome. see you guys. Like that was when I was like, man, like John's out on tour. This is awesome. Yeah. It was, I don't think we made any mistakes really. I mean, she played super solid. She did a really good job on the 10th hole. I made a call on a club and I got it right, which is great. It's whatever, but she did not agree with it.

Okay. And the fact that she trusted me enough to step up and hit a committed golf shot was really cool to see. You know, it was like, okay, we're getting somewhere in this relationship, in this working relationship, and the fact that she trusted me to make that call in the moment

was really cool for me to see her do. Similar situation on 12, she let me make a call on the club when we were in between. She hit a good shot. I always told her, and I told her leading into that day, I said, your job is to go play golf, my job is to think. You need to let me think and you need to be an athlete and go play with a clear head. And that was the first time I think she's kind of done that in the situation. And I think it was big for her.

And then walking off 12 when she made I think she made a par a really good par or whatever and she knew she was in it. And she told me she was nervous and she told me that you know she was she was starting to feel a little bit and What she like? She does she speed up does she like like how do you tell so fast? Yeah, she gets so fast decision. She tries to make a decision before she's got a number I'll catch her all the time. She'll like put her hand on the iron She thinks I'm about to tell her to hit like she just bad poker face

Exactly. Yeah, I mean to the untrained eye, people probably don't see it, but to anyone that's been around there, like you can just see the process start to speed up and then that lingers into her swing. She gets really quick with her swing. You know, she doesn't give herself time

to get deep in the backswing and she ends up usually hitting like a big pull because she just gets quick and over the top of it with the square face. But then on 13 as soon as she told me she was nervous we were on 13 of par 5 she hits driver 3 wood and hits it to the very back right of the green and has a 103 foot putt. I paced it off and she hit it to 2 inches and tapped in for bury. I just walked up to her. I said, if you told me you're nervous

and can lag a putt to two inches from a hundred feet, then we're gonna go win. Yeah. And then she birdied 14. I saw her catch the leaderboard. Yeah. Yeah, I saw her catch the leaderboard. I saw she saw she was in second,

but it was showing her group not the leaderboard I told her Nellie was at 16 under we had to birdie the rest. We were gonna go catch her Nellie was at 12 under we were too back, but I didn't want her to know that yeah and so I told her that we needed to go birdie the rest she hit a super good shot on 15 and Almost made the like 30 footer Then bogeyed 16 17 which were just unfortunate 16 is one of the hardest holes on the course and just missed our spot on 17. But then to see her come back and you know when she when we went just over the green and two the first thing she said to me is

you know I've got to make this chip to have a chance to win. It wasn't let me get up and down for birdie to try to improve my finisher. Let me protect the bar to make a, you know, protect a top six instead of exactly. And that's that was when I was kind of like, fuck you. Like, the mindset has the mindset has shifted. Now she's she's ready to go try to win. Yeah. And she gets the chip 12 feet by trying to make it but then she stepped up and hit the comeback and it's like, yeah, dude. You'd almost rather it happen like that for the long haul.

That's the thing. I feel like for the last however long, it's like, man, I'll tell her this, you'll tell her this. Talk about on the bottom, she's a top five, 10 ball striker in the world. You're good enough. It's just confidence. You gotta believe in yourself, but also it's just reps. Just being in those positions, right?

And not only being in those positions, but then learning, having the wherewithal and the recall to learn from those positions and figure out what you got to get better on or figure out, all right, cool. You know what? I'm going to slow things down this time or that sort of thing, which yeah, I mean, fast forward, like, you know, played well middle of the season here, like just kept stacking up like played well at Liberty national. So Terry starts that week. Yep. Terry started at Liberty.

So you guys just committed to that and you said, Hey, we're, you know, here and then it was super funny. So Lauren and Terry had been texting like every day since I decided to start working together just about things and Terry went silent after Chevron for like three days and we're talking to Stacey at Wilshire just shooting the shit and Stacey had known that Terry was gonna start Lawrence it's like yeah I have a care problem yeah and Stacey goes yeah Lauren he's gonna start Lawrence. It's like, yeah, I haven't heard from him. Yeah, and Stacey goes, yeah, Lawrence, he's probably waiting for you to text him and telling me he still has his fucking job.

He's being respectful and giving you the opportunity. Yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, go ahead and send him that text. And so she did. And then of course he was like, okay, I was just waiting to make sure. And so he started it at the zoo. He's worked the entirety of this year with the exception of Avion. So, all right. So let's go land the plane here soon. So then you take a step back and

you're doing, and are you like, all right, cool. I want to go caddy for somebody else immediately. Or are you like, Hey, I want to take a little break and then I'm going to, you know, Lauren's stash has changed or I'm going to try to align some things. Yeah. I mean, immediately, immediately. I mean, I kind of, I got the itch. Yeah. It's that run.

Like I told Lauren, the only thing I want to do now is I want to win. I'm going to go work. I'm going to go start working. And so it was funny, we had played with Maya, who's a good friend, that week. And her caddy Hadley had to go to a wedding with his best friend. And so I told Maya, I was like, well, if you need somebody, I'll do it for you at Mizzouho. It's perfect. It's my first week, Lauren, and I split.

And so Maya hired me for the one week or whatever I worked for her all week She showed up on Monday and hit three golf balls and and told me she was injured which was cool So, you know, I think we hit eight golf balls and walked to nine holes the whole week She withdrew Thursday morning with injury and then there was kind of the food poisoning thing that was going around that week And I think ten players ended up withdrawn. But I got a call from Perrine Delacour, her caddy got sick and is from France so he flew home to make sure he had medical care and didn't get stuck in the US or anything like that. So I worked the whole week for

her. I met her 45 minutes before her TD time time Got her carry numbers on the way to the first tee and caddy for her for four days and she finished I think she finished like 34th or something and that was my first percentage check It was the first time I had been paid Paid for my work and my services, but that kind of gave me the bug like hey I can I can go do this with another player. You know? Yeah. And then after that, have you been bouncing around or? Gosh, I'm trying to think of what was after Mizuho. It was Mizuho, Women's Open.

Yes, I didn't work the US Open. This year was Lauren's first US Women's Open. I wanted to be a spectator for that and kind of enjoy that week with her. And then so I started working for the girl I work for now, Gina Kim, directly after that, starting at ShopRite. And so I've done everything with Gina, with the exception of I worked at KPMG because she wasn't in.

I worked for a girl, Robin Choi, a rookie. There's a long-term goal to take over for Terry once he's ready to hang it up, or is Terry gonna ride this bag as long as he can and you're like doing your apprenticeship right now. Yes and no, I mean, so Terry's not working this week in Austin and Terry's not working the Asia swing for Lauren. I think he's been doing this 47 years and he walks

like he has a staff bag on his shoulder when he's just walking down the street. Like his body is just, it's not in a good place. And he was mostly retired when Lauren hired him. He had only committed to seven events and I think she's going to get 13 of them out of him this year. And then next year he'll start around J.M. Eagle in California. So the plan is for me to continue doing what I'm doing. We haven't talked about

it. I'm very much enjoying the person I work for now and I think I can do a lot of good for her. I'll potentially do the Asia Swing for Lauren and then I'm going to do Tournament of Champions next year and then hopefully the girl I'm working for gets her card back. We're probably gonna have to get a Q school and gets her card back and we can kind of rock and roll next year. So Lauren finishes T9 at ShopRite, Top 25 at KPMG, the fourth at Evian.

And Evian, were you on the bag? I was. Okay. Yeah. Coming down the stretch there, because that was a different scenario. You guys had to put the pedal down and it's kind of the opposite of what you've been working on, right? Instead of trying to not make bogeys, you're like, no, we got to go get it. Yeah.

Yes and no. I mean, Lauren never played well at Evian. She's never made the cut at Evian. I hadn't been there since 2018 at an event I caddied for her. We kind of got there and I went straight off the plane and went to the golf course and kind of started doing my homework. She was talking to some of the veteran caddies and kind of watching. The ball goes further there for whatever altitude there is and the lake has a massive effect on putts.

You know, it's that old thing of pipe breaks towards the water well, everything breaks towards the town of Geneva. It doesn't matter if it's on a 3% slope the opposite direction, the ball's breaking towards the town and lake. So I went out and did my homework and Lauren and I thought about it all week because I'd keep handing her one less club. And she's like, I don't want to swing hard. I don't want to swing hard. I don't want to swing hard I don't want to hit a full, you know, I'm like she's getting like eight more yards out of a 54 degree wedge and so we thought about it all week and finally just She had done it enough times in the practice round to see that the ball goes a half club further And it's just is what it is. She didn't have to do anything different. And it was weird, like last year from what she had told me,

the greens got super, super firm and baked out at Evian. And this year they were just, they were pretty soft. And so it was kind of one of those, like we had to go on offense from the jump, which is not how most players play Evian. I don't remember where we were after the first round, but I know she played super solid the first round. She had 65, yeah.

Yeah, so 65, I mean, six under in first rounds of majors, I guess is just kind of my MO for the year. I reminded Terry that I had him by like nine on first rounds of majors with Lauren this year. But yeah, got off to a super good start there. I think it was the same thing. It just played okay on Friday, which was okay, you know? And then Saturday kind of Lauren the dog showed up in Lauren

and kind of went out and made a charge for that final group and made Eagle on 18 to get in the final group. Another 65. Yeah, another 65. I think that conversation kind of got run on TV, but Lauren and I had, I would say, a passionate discussion on whether to go for the green or to lay up. To be fair, it was one of those, if Chevron hadn't happened, we'd probably lay up. Yeah.

Because it was a hard shot. It was a five times out of 10 shot. But having that comfort of where the season had been and probably the fact that I was only working for it for a week this time and didn't have any repercussions. Terry's back next week. You can clean up that decision. It's his problem. Yeah, if need be. Yeah, but that Saturday we were a couple shots back at the lead and had a really good number.

It was like 200 to cover the front, but a super hanging line. The ball was a few inches below her feet and she wanted to lay up and hit nine iron. And we kind of talked about it and she went for the green and hit it to like 18 feet and made the putt for eagle and that jumped us into the final group which I thought was huge. And that was what was in my mind when we were on that hole is, hey if this goes in the water like we'd probably get it up and down, at worst case we make bogey we're in the top 10 going into Sunday of a major. But I thought after Chevron and the way she kind of answered the call, I thought it was really important for her to get in the final group.

And I didn't think Birdie would get that done for us. I thought we had to make Eagle, which was just I thought she could pull off the shot and I thought we might have to pull that same shot off on Sunday to win. And I wanted to see if she could do it again. So I had a few choice words that the golf channel caught on the hot mic and Grant Boone got his fun with that. But I think the coolest thing is when she hit the shot and it landed and the crowd kind of went nuts and she had that 18 feet for eagle, you kind of see if you watch the clip

back you see her give me like, I give her like this huge high five. But I kind of like poked her in the chest. And I was like, you're a fucking dog. And like, you gotta know that. Like you just stepped up and hit one of the hardest golf shots in a very pressure packed situation. And I wanted her to know that going into Sunday, that she could pull it off and that she could go win. And she kind of did. I mean, she birdied two. Sunday, she had a really good up and

down for par birdie two and three to get to solo lead maybe or tied for the lead. Yeah. And just, I mean, it was tight. Like, like even coming down the stretch, I mean, it was just, it's like getting caught on the wrong side of a ridge here where it's like, you know, 50, 50 ball, right? Where, you know, rolls down one way. And it's like, man, but like, I don't know, I truly feel like, all right, if you don't like, if she doesn't hit that shot on Saturday and get in the final group, she's less comfortable two weeks later in Canada. I agree. In the final group. It's like, it's all this incremental progress that adds up to wins and big things. But it's just for prodigies and for people like

Roy McElroy or Lydia Ko, that shit just happens. But other times it takes, there's like 28 steps in the process. Like 28 obvious steps in the process. And then like 28 steps within each of those 28 steps. And the thing, the thing TC that we talk a lot about with Lauren's coach and that him and I both harp on pretty extensively is like, we got to take the end goal out of mind here and let's stack good days.

Let's stack good weeks. Especially, you know, you look back to 2018, 19, 20, whatever, when you're kinda down in the dumps, it's like, well, you can't really think about keeping your card or getting back to the LPJ Tour. It's like, let's just have a good day today. And then let's have a good day tomorrow. And then let's stack those days,

and then those days turn into weeks, those weeks turn into months. And now those months are turning into what hopefully is years and a career's worth of good weeks. Yeah. Coming back from Evian, going to Canada, Terry's back on the bag. You're like, all right, good things are ahead.

She's playing so well right now or is it just? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, it was pretty, I didn't think she'd have a hangover because she took Toledo off. I think it should have gone straight to Toledo and played that next week. I mean, Steph Kiriakou, who finished second that week and was a huge week for her, went

to Toledo and missed the cut. I think she might have withdrawn after the first round, but I thought it was good for Lauren to have that week off and to have that time off. And really to have some time to herself because I went to Toledo and caddied for the girl I worked for. So Lauren had time to go home and reflect

and sit with her thoughts and think about it. But the biggest thing- Play some Fortnite or? Yeah, just like go have a beer and play golf with some of her thing. Play some Fortnite or? Yeah, just like, you know, go have a beer and play golf with some of her friends, right? It doesn't matter, you know? Maybe pick up the guitar and try to learn the new chord or something like that, you know?

Just do something that's not major championship, final group pressure and stress and you know, all that. And we talked about a lot after it happened is, and I told her this, she did y'all's podcast the main podcast and I told her I said Lauren at Chevron you told me you were nervous and we made a run I said I didn't know you were nervous on the back nine at Evian until I fired up the podcast and listened to it I had no idea. She hid it, which is fine, I get that,

but I've known her as well as anybody in the world does and I couldn't pick it up. I thought she was just cruising, cruising, cruising. And so I told her, I said, look, if you're gonna go get it done, you've got to share that information. It's what you and Terry and you and I talk about all the time is letting that emotion out.

And it's figuring it out. It's him like, you know, sharing with him, hey, here's a variable that we're dealing with. And I need to let you in and know that, you know, yeah. And so I told her, I said, like, Evian's done and you didn't lose the golf tournament. We caught a bad break. But if you're going to go get it done, you need to, youian's done, and you didn't lose the golf tournament, we caught a bad break, but if you're gonna go get it done, you need to be honest when you're feeling those things. And I think she did a really good job of that,

of expressing it to me when we were in the hotel the night before, and just talking about what the day was gonna be like the next day, and making sure that Terry was plugged into the entire situation, and he knew what he was getting. And, you know, of course he's going to handle it well. He's probably the best caddy that's ever been on this tour and does a fantastic job.

But just getting that out there, I think was huge. And, you know, again, where Chevron was learning experience, Evian was an even bigger one. We were much closer than Chevron even though we finished in the worst place. It's just funny. It feels like that Canadian women's open win happened in the preceding six months. It's like all that stuff that added up and then she applies it and puts it into practice. Gina was in the field that week? Yep. And so what's your weekend like? Did Gina make the cut or you? No, we had a rough putting day on Friday, but we were tied with Lauren after two days

for greens and regulation. We were in the mix for that Audi $20,000 bonus, except we missed the cut by four. We had a TC putting day on Friday of Canada, 41 putts, 15 greens, 41 putts, 79. Old TC. So yeah, I mean, any point on Sunday, especially when you felt like, all right, this is a new Lauren, or this is, you know, she's turned over a new leaf, or she applied something that...

Yeah, I think... I mean, she just made a couple big putts that week for par or bogey. Like on six, she made like a 25 footer for bogey after kind of making a mess of that hole. And it was like, you know... Was that the wedge that she left short on the par three? No, it's the one... It was the hole where you hit like six iron off the tee and she blocked it in the right rough, punched one up into the front bunker, flubbed the bunker shot,

gassed the chip by and then made like a 25 footer for bogey. I thought that was a big moment but also I thought, you know, I thought she did a good job of staying patient all week and you know, she missed like a four footer for birdie on four, the par five but like from a hundred feet away I could see it hit a spike mark and jumped up in the air and and just dove across the hole it wasn't her fault I think in the past she would have let that get to her but she didn't she setups up on five which is the hardest par three of the week was she birdied I think all four

days but she hits five. She did the par 3 so well. It was crazy. Yeah. She almost hooped a five hybrid for one right after missing a short birdie putt. It's like that's the maturity. And it's not like she went chasing after this hole. She hit the proper shot, used the slope and brought it down. And if she had missed that shot, it was always going to be 20, 25 feet. Yeah. And then just going from there. I mean, so yeah, you guys obviously, I'm sure it's like a, what's that feeling like for you that night afterwards? Surreal disbelief or just like almost like, you know what, like this has been a slow build and I knew this was going to happen and just trust the process. Yeah, I mean, I think you always have belief,

but I don't think you're ready for it. I don't think you're ready for the moment when it all culminates, right? Because realistically what it is, is it's seven years of everyone in her corner sacrificing for 20 minutes of dopamine hit and you hear your friends congratulate you, right? And then it's kind of over.

It's the next week. It happens again. I told Lauren, I was like, the only thing you need to really prepare for is to get announced as a winner the next week in Portland because they're going to announce you as a winner on the first tee. And I was like, I don't think it's going to sink in until then. And it didn't like it still hasn't. I don't think like nothing's different.

Well, that's good, right? It's cool to see that. It's like, yeah, she's hungry, right? She's got that dog. Yeah, like, I mean, she should she goes to Portland next week, finishes T9, kind of runs out of gas in the final round and then week off. And then then you guys go to Scotland and, you know, went on a different continent on a different, completely different style

of golf. And it's like, holy shit, man. That's. Like, all right, that's like, you know, cool, like level like it was like, you know, cool. Like level, like it was like Canada was like level one. And then, you know, it's like, this is level three unlocked, you know? So, yeah, I think T-Mac kind of said, he might not said these exact words, but he said something similar. He's like, you know, in Canada, you played better than everyone else in Scotland. She was just better than everyone else. Like it was, it was a

different level of golf. It's, I mean, just seeing, I don't know how to explain it. Seeing, seeing the six or seven wood putts down the stretch, like seeing that versus where she was at, you know, like you were talking about the China event, blue bed and like, she would like, or Saudi, she put it like, it's like, all right, like how far, like, man, I need that, I need that putting drill. So that's what I need. We'll take that off. Keep that behind the paywall.

We're already behind the paywall. That'll be behind the Megan Nest. That's another paywall. Yeah. But it was just the first time where it was like you were never not going to win. Like from day one, like I watched her play and I was like, she's going to win. Yeah. She was just better than everyone else that was there. And you know, one of the girls that played with her in the final group, we're good friends with both Megan and Oscar, I won't say which one said it, but one of them told me, yeah, I kind

of knew after the first nine holes that I was in trouble. I didn't have what Lauren had that day or that week. It's like if you can go on the final round and instill fear and doubt in your playing partners, that's when you're starting to turn the corner and get on a different level. Yeah, that's a- And that's what happened. It's just like she hit the shots and when she missed the shot, it was always going to be an up and down for part. She wasn't giving them back. Yeah. No, that's where it's like, I've thought, oh my gosh, like you were, you were better than, you're better than these people. Like, you know, whether today or just generally speaking, like it's a, yeah, no, it's, it's a, what do you think? I mean, what's, you know, I don't want you to speak

for her, but like, what are team Coughlin's goals for the rest of the year? Like, I know you got Solheim coming up. Yeah. Is it finishing the season strong after that and going to Asia and, you know, trying to put an exclamation point on it? Or is it like resetting after the year and saying, hey, let's work on some things that, you know, have kind of been on the back burner for the last six years and, you know, try to truly unlock something. I mean, I think it's a combination of things, right? Obviously, Solheim's huge and managing that,

being in our home state in an hour from where we live and being a 31-year-old rookie is gonna present its own set of challenges. in our home state an hour from where we live and being a 31 year old rookie is is gonna present its own set of challenges and I think all Lawrence thinking about right now is how to go win a point how to get a point for the US and you know whoever she plays how is she gonna get it done not worrying about who she's gonna be paired with or what format she's gonna play in it hey when I'm called like I gotta get a point and every goal stops at Solheim

right now outside of that, you know, it's going to be your first tour championship. That's one of those where I truly solid, you know what they pay last place. Cause it's sick. But like it'll be your first tour championship and that's going to be a huge deal. Just, just to be one of the top players at the end of the season. And to go in there in good form is going to be really cool hopefully to sustain that and then we'll kind of see where the schedule shakes out but it's nice getting to start

off with TOC next year. What's been the kind of the coolest most unexpected thing on the road for you over the last six, seven, eight months? Yeah, I mean I think, you know, the coolest thing for me is I think how many relationships that I and we, Lauren and I have out here that have matured with me being out here more. I mean, you know Lauren, she likes to be by herself and do her own thing and she keeps her circle very, very tight and that's kind of the opposite of my personality. I like to work a room and talk to everybody and just the amount of really, really good friendships that we've made

for the first time I think, you know, is a little bit different. There's a lot more people that we consider close friends out here now that we spend time with away from the golf course. I think going back to the whole you don't know how long your career is going to last out here, realizing that we get to live a very, very cool lifestyle and that taking advantage of that and enjoying it while we have it because it's not going to be forever, I think has been just as important as kind of the wins and the on the golf course successes. I think she's finding that and we're finding that happiness outside of a tee time

or a Thursday through Sunday kind of grind. Yeah, it's crazy that you're not even through your like a full season out there yet either. Feels like I've been out here forever because Lauren and the girl I'm working for, Gina, is not having her best season. So she's in a totally different category of events. And I've kind of worked some of the events for Lauren that she wasn't playing in. I have been to every single LPGA event this year, I think, except for one. Like at the end of the year, I'm going to be at over 30 events.

Yeah. What is your... I'm exhausted. How does it work on the LPGA just finding the caddy? Like let's say you weren't caddying for Gina. What does it look like for her to go find a caddy out there? Yeah, I mean, so the caddies kind of have like an association. It's not like a union or anything, but we have like this association. And so that's where a lot of like open bags, both players looking for and caddies looking

for kind of get posted. And then it's kind of on the players to reach out to their circle of caddies looking for kind of get posted and then it's kind of on the players to reach out to their circle of caddies their friends that are caddies or their group and hey who's available and it's kind of all word-of-mouth right some players especially foreign players handle it all through their agent but especially for the Americans and most of the Europeans everything's kind of getting handled by word of mouth and like, hey, you know, I'm friends with John, I'm going to ask John who's available. And I know that he'll recommend a couple of people that

would be worth talking to. Then when you get to the bottom, when you get to the girls that are rookies off the absentee, you get to girls who are playing out of a crappy category, a lot of that's, they're going to take a local caddy to save money and they're going to pay, you know, whatever it's volunteer or whatever it is. But that top, that core group of top hundred girls out here, 90 to 95% of them are taking a professional tour caddy every week. I think a lot of people that listened to this Nest podcast have been following along for

a long time, but to hear everything kind of put in one place and to hear the seeds of success kind of planted in 2018 at a random absent tour or, you know, it's just these weird little flourishes, right? That add up to something and create a little bit of confidence or a little bit of momentum. And then you can parlay that into a few tour starts. And then it's just these weird fits and starts that end up yielding what the last four weeks have yielded. And it's really, really cool. It's been like truly-

It's why you see guys like out. It's why you see the Hubers and Mark Baldwin, the guy with Monday Q info. It's why you see those guys still going after it at 38. Cause it takes a week and people don't see what's building. But if you can see it, it's an addictive drug. And like you can keep chasing it and you can keep convincing yourself that it's going to come.

And for a lot of them, it doesn't ever happen, but when it does, it pays off in such a big way. I think the coolest thing with Lauren though is it's never felt like fool's gold, right? It's always felt like, man, there's something there. There's something. Yeah. There's something substantive there. So I was telling the guys on our weekly call and Casey and Jordan and everybody, I was saying, I think just

being along for this ride with you guys has been among the highlights of NLU for me, just over the last 10 years. It's's been truly like feeling invested in something and feeling like, man, like I know she's good enough to do this and just seeing it happen. So it's, yeah, it's been, yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's brought a lot of joy to a lot of people's lives to see what Lauren's done. It's reciprocal. I mean, I think when the times were pretty dark,

especially through that COVID, like that NLU relationship kept some of the passion for golf there. And from the friends we've made through the events, like some of my really, really close friends, people I talk to daily or weekly or whatever it is, have come from that Twitter DM that we sent out, like seeking sponsorship, trying to survive out here.

To think that some of my best friends now are a result of that is, it's a really cool thing and the same for Lauren. We talk to people from this community daily, Don, Casey, you, people from the refuge. It's crazy to think how many friends we've made along the way from this relationship and how instrumental it's been to Lauren's career,

both from a dollars and cents perspective, but just like helping her continue to love the game when it just kept punching her in the face. Amen. Yeah. On a lighter note, are you going to Pearl Jam with Casey and John? Absolutely not. You're not going to Pearl Jam?

No. No. I'm going home. And you know, I mean, if I wanted to listen to somebody mumble for two hours, I'd turn it on any political channel. Yeah. I gotcha. I don't do the PJs. It's not my thing. I went to the one we went to last year in New Jersey, but it's not. What'd you guys go to in Vegas when you were out there last? Metallica. I've been, Trevor Emelman keeps sending, keeps posting Metallica clips on his stories and it's getting me back into Metallica.

And I told Casey the other night, I was like, man, I got to go see Metallica. She's like, well, you better go this year because you had nothing on the books for next year. So she's like, yeah, like Mexico City or something. They've lost a step. But it's still cool. It's still really cool. So, all right. Well, John, I appreciate it, man. This was a pleasure. And yeah, I don't

know. I just feel like it's cool to kind of hear the ins and outs of the journey within the journey. So. That's been awesome. Always happy to talk about it.