Parks and Recollection - Jon Glaser: How a Bill Becomes a Law (S5E3)

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

You just got JAMMED! Jon Glaser (Jeremy Jamm himself!) joins Jim O’Heir and Greg Levine in this week’s walkthrough of “How a Bill Becomes a Law” to break down Leslie Knope’s first encounter with the Pawnee councilman we love to hate, the 311 hotline that leads Ron Swanson to find the love of his life, and the reason Ben and April can’t make it out of the parking garage. Plus, Jon reveals the origin story of his character’s iconic quaff and how well Jeremy Jamm would fit into today’s political landscape. Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email at [e-mail]!

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's, the pets we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast Then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection. Come on, little podcast, spread your wings and fly. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Parks and Recollection. I'm one of your hosts. I'm Jim O'Hare. As the guy you know who played Gary or Larry or Jerry or Terry or even Barry from the show. And my co-host is just the greatest guy of all time.

I can't even pretend, Greg. Just go ahead. I can't even do it. It's Greg, but it's worthless when we should just jump into that voice you heard. Because today we are so lucky to have an amazing guest, an Emmy Award winning writer, actor and comedian, writer and sketch performer for many years on Late Night with Conan O'Brien and Inside Amy Schumer. Creator and star of Adult Swim's Delocated and Neon Joe Werewolf Hunter. Has a brand new comedy album called John Glazer's Soothing Meditations for the Solitary Dog. And for us here on Parks and Recollection,

he played the karaoke singing, Benihana-loving orthodontist with IBS respect, who also happened to be a city councilman we love to hate. We're going to get jammed. We have John Glazer. John Glazer, welcome! What a resume. Wow, what a resume.

If only if it were true, then it would really be something that's okay that's the thing but it sounds great it sounds great well it's great to be here you guys thanks for having me i'm super excited to be doing this and uh watching these again it's been super fun well i think it's fair to say you are the most hated beloved character on the show you know they love to hate you because what you brought was so perfect and so awful in a wonderful way. And yet, you got a little heart in there. There's a little heart in the jam, even though you probably don't want to admit it.

There's a little pumping of the blood in that heart. It's always the way with the bad guys, with the assholes. They're deep down. They're just insecure sweethearts. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they just need that little push to get over the hump. It's the Parks and Rec effect.

We had Jason Mantzoukas on an episode. It was talking about Dennis Feinstein and how there are very few characters on Parks that wind up never being redeemed, who never have an arc and a softening. And he's one of them. He's one of the true evils of the world. But you'll wind up being in 18 episodes of the

show as Councilman Jeremy Jam and at 18 episodes on Parks and Rec I think the sweetness, the heart, even comes to play with Jam. Yeah, it was pretty cool when I realized how many episodes, because when it was all said and done, I was just curious and it was pretty cool to see that it was almost

a full season's worth. Oh yeah, Oh yeah. And John, just so that, just cause I love hearing how this happens and you know, before we get into this actual episode, which we will obviously, uh, how did you end up on the show? Did you just get a random call? Was there an audition process? How did it go down? This was to my knowledge and I don't need, I still don't know if I know exactly the deal, but I got a call. This is one of those rare times, at least for someone like myself, where you just get an offer for a really

great part. And certainly knowing Amy, I knew Mike Schur a little bit at the time, not as well as I got to know him over the run of the show, but I knew Amy pretty well from Chicago. And I guess they must've had me in mind for the part, I think. And so just a massive stroke of luck for me to get offered such a fun as hell role on also then it's a show that's really good, really well written, really well executed across the board. So, you know, you just, it's a stroke of luck and I'm just deeply thankful that I got to do it. And here I am years later. I mean, just what a, what a fortunate experience. So I think that's kind of how it happened. As an actor, I can say there is nothing better than that phone call.

That's not an audition. It's an offer. There is nothing better than that. Well, but also for just the, you know, cause we all have those experiences of like, Hey, you got an offer and it's just, all right, this is fine. Like it's a job, right. You know, and it might not be the best show, but there's great people involved or not. Like sometimes you just get an offer for a job and it's just, you know, on both sides of the camera. I mean, tremendous good fortune. And I think about that all the time, you know. And so it's just, yeah, just great luck for me. And did you know going in it was recurring? Like, did they say to you, listen, we have a storyline for this character? Or did you not know where it was going to go? My recollection is that it was, they had this idea for the character,

and I think it was just, let's see how this goes. It was not ever explicitly said that it's going to be something that runs for the end of the show. It just thankfully, you know, went well and people really liked the character. And I think it just worked really well for the show at that time to introduce this foil for Amy's character. And it just turned into an extremely fun thing. And they just kept writing me in stuff and I just reaped the benefits. And I live in New York. So I was flying to LA a lot. Um, sometimes for chunks, sometimes like go out for a week, back home for a week, go out for a week. My daughter was actually very little. I don't even know if she was two years old yet. And she's little,

she doesn't understand everything. And after I was back and I was then home for a stretch, I remember going just to the corner, like Delhi to get something. And this is so like heartbreaking in some ways, even though it's cute. I'm just walk, I'm just going to the store. And she just went, you go to LA. Cause she, you know, yeah. Cause anytime I'd have to leave town, I'm like, Oh, I'm just going to go. I'm going to work. I'm going to get in an airplane. I'm going to LA and I'm coming. Oh, it was just like it was cute, but I'm like, oh, it was so sweet and it hurt a little bit. And she was 20 at the time. Well, that's the thing. She was like, she did this baby character that was really funny. I mean, as a 20-year-old to do this baby character that was that realistic.

Yeah, it's just amazing. Yeah, that's sweet. It's deaf. It's deaf. It's deaf. It was, and because it was manipulative, and she made me feel bad. Yeah, yeah. Because I knew she was 20. Right.

But I believed she was two. You had to play into it. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, that's my training. My training is yes and. My training is yes and. So even with my, even in life. Yeah, well, you're a master improviser.

But the fact that a show at this point, big show like Parks and everything, you obviously brought it so quickly and they knew that. So they're like, let's keep writing for him. Because if it didn't work, it wouldn't have worked. You would have come, you would have been gone, and that would have been that. But in this case, you nailed it. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Well, what I think is great about the show

when you look at the full run is there are characters like Jeremy Jam, who winds up being a major foil and major character in Leslie's life, who sticks around for a long time. And there's a character like Perd Happley or Councilman Dexart, who you think is going to have one scene or one episode, and they just prove to be both funny as an actor, funny as a character. And you realize that this world of Pawnee has been built out like Springfield, the Simpsons. And the fun is constantly getting to see these people

again and again, and then adding depth to those characters. And so what I remember of you starting on the show, John, is that you always want to bring in someone who you know not just can nail the episode, but if you think there's potential, if you're developing someone to continue on, you want someone who can bring things that you aren't expecting that can add richness to the character. And so I think because you knew Amy, and I think you knew maybe some of the other writers casually on the show, that I think the characters developed at the same time that it was like, we should try to get John Glazer in to do this role. And it was just a perfect fit because you kept coming back

because it's fun to have a foil for Leslie and you were amazing as that foil. Well, that is kind of what I meant even when I was saying earlier as far as the tremendous good fortune of a job like this where you walk in, because a lot of jobs, you walk in, you don't know anyone.

They just cast you or they offer it to you because from whatever, but you still don't know everybody. And you're just hoping for the best to walk into such a familiar group of people. You know, I knew some, I knew Joe Mandy. I knew some of the other writers a little bit and knew Mike and Dan Gore, Dan Gore. And I actually overlapped at Conan for a little bit. So, you know, and then I knew Amy Poehler, the best of all the cast, but I knew Aubrey. We had done a couple of things in New York together.

I knew Nick Offerman a little bit, but we got to become better friends during the show. But we knew each other a little bit. I knew Aziz. I didn't know the other cast casts really. And so I still knew enough people. And it is great when you go into a situation where that's a component is letting people ad lib, knowing they're more than likely going to give you something that like what you just said, you didn't think of, you didn't expect. I mean, it's all the cliches, like all the chemistry, but you know, especially with improv, that obviously makes a difference. also with the show this shared

sensibility comedy wise is so important and it's integral to the success of the show because the writing has that sensibility and all the performers bring that and everybody's so fucking good at the ad-libbing i mean you watch like all the outtakes and it's just unbelievably funny things. It's just, and then it's just whatever. It's so joyful to get to do that as an actor, to get that job. It's just freedom creatively where you're not worried about network notes and executives and people that aren't good at their job and just trying to put their stamp on it. And it's just, you're getting in the way and you don't even understand it. So that was for me, a huge component of the job. And I think why it was so successful.

I'm sure you're like me. I've gotten calls the night before I started working on a new project and I will be told this is a word by word show, which means there will be no messing around. You will do exactly as the words are on the script. And again, that is the way to do it, but not to put words in your mouth, but I'm guessing you felt the freedom and the comfort the minute you stepped on set. Oh yeah. You know, going in and especially at the juncture that I joined the show, you know, it's already a well-oiled machine and everyone's good at what they do. And it's just a built-in support system of we're bringing people in that are good at that. That's just a component of it. And most of the shows I've done are comedies and most of them

have had that where they've been very welcoming. They know that people like myself can bring something extra to maybe the job and the dialogue and whatever. And you always try to be respectful of the script no matter what. And they would always get, let's get it to the script and then we can fuck around. But yeah, it's a difference maker and certainly nothing wrong with these jobs where it's word for word. Like that's just different. I've done many. Yeah, absolutely. Right, right, right. Well, let's talk about this episode because- Oh, that's right. We're doing an episode. I totally forgot about that. Remember that, Jim? Yeah. So today's episode

is season five, episode three. It's called How a Bill Becomes a Law, written by Dan Gore, directed by Ken Whittingham, and originally aired on October 4th, 2012. And Jim, if you can give us a blurb. Here's a little blurb. In an effort to pass a bill that would extend local pool hours for Pawnee's youth swim team, the Pawnee Porpoises, Leslie makes a backroom deal

with Councilman Jam in return for his support. Meanwhile, Chris sets up a 3-1-1 information hotline that leads to a love connection for Ron. And Ben and April set off on a road trip to visit Leslie and Andy, but are unable to make it out of the

parking garage. Wow, that's a blurb. That's a great blurb. Yeah, it's great because we have Leslie doing her new job. We have April and Ben in this kind of, you know, this bottle little thing, like this little moment of let's put these two characters who have friction

but fun together in a car. It feels like a classic Parks and Rec episode like the early moment of let's put these two characters who have friction but fun together in a car. It feels like a classic Parks and Rec episode. Like the early days of season two of we're doing something for the city. It's a hotline and it becomes a killing field for Jerry to get 911 calls, for Donna to read Fifty Shades of Grey

to someone. But then the unsuspecting story, I think, is a softening for Ron and Andy playing Cupid to help bring a love story out. So I think it both reflects where we are with our characters in season five

and the true heart of, I think, what made Parks so great in the early days, especially. And it's always been great, but I think when we found our groove in season two. And this is a pivotal episode if you you really think about it, for Ron.

Oh, yeah. This changes everything for Ron. One little suggestion by Chris that we should be doing this 3-1-1 line, and Ron ends up with his life partner. Yeah, Ron's meeting Diane, who will be his person. And so it's going to be so fun to watch now to see that chemistry and the fun in this new version of Ron that we haven't really seen. Amazing. We have some notes for today's episode. The episode title is a reference to the Schoolhouse Rock segment, I'm Just a Bill, in which an anthropomorphic Bill, I hadn't thought about it that way, goes through various trials and tribulations while attempting to become a law.

We also talked about the fact this is the first of 18 appearances by John Glazer as Councilman Jeremy Jam. Although his character appeared in the last episode, Soda Tax, it was a non-speaking role that was played by another actor. Oh, really? That's hilarious. Yeah, I never knew that either. That's interesting. It's also the first appearance of actress Lucy Lawless as Ron's love interest, Diane. Lucy is perhaps best known for her role as Xena. And Xena, of course, perhaps best known for being a warrior princess.

Yes. And another great one. This is so great because we have Ben in the car reading his self-authored Star Trek fan fiction to April while they're stuck in the garage. And it's Adam Scott who actually had a role as a Starfleet officer in Star Trek First Contact. Oh my God, that's incredible. Holy shit. Damn good movie.

That is awesome. Well, let's jump into the episodes. In our synopsis, while taking Ben on a virtual tour of her new city council office, Leslie finds Councilman Jeremy Jam brazenly using the private restroom attached to her office. Unapologetic, Councilman Jam makes his displeasure for Leslie known, stating that as the newest city council member, she's not deserving of her own private restroom. Meanwhile, therapy has brought Chris a new outlook on life and determined to bring the same enlightenment to the city of Pawnee, he creates a 3-1-1 information hotline manned by the Parks Department.

And as we mentioned, back in Washington, D.C., April convinces Ben to make the 10-hour drive to Pawnee to surprise Leslie and Andy. Wow. I have to say, in Jam's behalf, had I been a councilman and now I'm, you know, there's a new councilwoman, I might be a little pissy, too, that she gets the bathroom. Wow. Even though I know she's a woman. And so there's going to be maybe that's the main reason. But I would be like, hey, the new kids get in the bathroom?

I could see being a little aggravated by that. Wow. Very revealing to you, Jim. Yeah yeah it says a lot about me it really does yeah wow all right this definitely feels like classic dan gore that we meet jam on the toilet yeah right it just feels like it's a great first image and dan i think was always so great at thinking of these great comedy images for our characters, from Leslie chained to a gate in 94 Meetings and now Jam on the Toilet. And it's just a, you know, I think the way you played it was just so perfect. It was just, I don't know, I was like, well, that's how I would feel if someone walked in on me in that position.

I want to just, I'll add something really quick. Like, one of my favorite parts about getting the role was the hair. Because that's my hair. It was not a wig. And at the time, I remember when I got the part, my hair was, at the time, pretty big. Classic Jufro. And at the time, I remember thinking, it would be fun to do do something with this guy knowing he's this kind of douchebag. And I'm not saying this person is a douchebag, but there's a, if you know sports and football, there's a much jammed hair. And I remember telling them, I just pitched this idea. I'm like, what do you think if we like blow dry my hair straight and

then like comb it back? And they were already kind of thinking that, which harkens back to what I said earlier, a lot of just same page hair sensibility stuff. So it was not like you're walking into a show and they're like, I don't know. They were just like, oh yeah, great. Perfect. We were thinking something similar. And so for me, I love having my hair worked down. Like I like a good scalp massage. So every time I went to work, it was like 45 minutes in the chair that make hair and makeup chair to start the day, just blowing it dry, brushing it. Oh, it was like a fucking dream. Oh God, it was so good, man. Any chance, I think, for someone else to do something like that, it's lovely. And the fact that they did that for you daily, and it's such a distinctive look. It's hard to picture Jam with

your normal hairstyle or any other version. It's something very unique. Yeah, and I also think right away, it helps you as an audience member go, okay, I see what this guy's all about. Like if you saw that person walking down the street before they even spoke, which is maybe not fair to judge a book by its cover, etc., but you'd more than likely be right to go, oh, here comes an asshole.

Yeah, we got a douche heading our way. Yeah, when you see that, it's just like, it's a real specific look, a real specific choice, the intention behind it. And that person's like, yeah, I look good.

It just bums me out. I look good. Yeah, nailed it. Do you remember, were you given any notes or did Mike talk to you in the early days about this is what we want from the character and this is how to play? Cause he's pretty,

there's a scumbag quality to him right away. Yeah. I'm trying to, I don't necessarily recall any big conversations, but I think it was just, you get it right away. It's like, we're introducing this new character as a foil for Amy's character.

He's the bad guy. And so it's just a well-written show and the character is just, you get it. I know. I mean, I'm, you know, that's the John Glazer wheelhouse is assholes. And so, you know, they, they know what they're getting. They know what they want. I know what they want. It was really just like, got it. And it's just for actors, it's extremely fun. So it was just, you know, it was just, yeah. When I think asshole, I think Glazer. For actors, it's extremely fun. So it was just, you know, it was just. Yeah, when I think asshole, I think Glazer. I mean, that's.

A lot of people do, man. For any publishers that are out there listening, I've been pitching a book. This is actually a true story. I've had an idea for years, like, oh, not a memoir, but like short stories. And I called the book, I am not an asshole. Because a lot of people meet me and they're like, Oh, you're nicer than I thought you'd be. Oh, please.

You're a sweet. And for the proposal, I used that jam city hall photo, the one that hung up there and I'm upset and it's a perfect picture. Yeah. Uh, so hopefully you'll all get to read it someday. Cool.

We get a great new look at Leslie's office, this new office of hers. She has two clocks showing Washington, D.C. and the Pawnee time zones, which are the same, by the way. Her wall of inspirational women includes Senators Barbara Boxer, Hillary Clinton, First Lady Michelle Obama, Nancy Pelosi. She also has herself. Yes, that's true. Because she is inspired by herself. Yeah, that's a great line. Very funny. If that isn't Leslie, I don't know what is. Which is really beautiful when you think about it, right?

Yes, if we all had that, if we could be people like that. I agree. Yeah. And we have this great Jerry moment early on, Jim, which, again, every time we get just a little nugget of Jerry's life, but also people's reactions just really cracks me up. You know, he says, you know, Gail and I, we saw a couples therapist for a little while. And Chris instantly, that's too much, Jerry. And Donna, for real, keep us out of your bedroom. He's done nothing.

He's just said, oh, yeah, well, GailLine's not there, but that should open up a conversation. Cut it out. Shut it down. Yeah. But it's also, to me, every character is hilarious. And it's just so funny to watch. And that's also why, whatever, I'm not trying to kiss ass about the show is so good. But it is.

It's just all these really, really funny characters and all these funny performances for these characters. Like it's just such a, I don't know, like you never get bored watching the show. Cause it's always something hilarious and all the characters are different. And it's like, as soon as you see Jim, you're already laughing before he's even said anything. Cause it's just, Oh, and it never is never not funny. It can be the same kind of stuff. And it's just, oh, goddammit.

About to shit on Jerry, you know? If the camera's heading my way, there's going to be a big shit. That's a given. And you kill it each time, Jim. Agreed. It was fun to keep doing. Agreed.

I also want to just say that the storyline with Chris in therapy, I think, was a much-loved storyline for the writing staff. One, it was this new depth to his character. He's always talked about his body being a temple, and he's been stressed out by his potential mortality. But soon enough, we're going to learn the name of Chris's therapist, Dr. Richard Nygaard. And often, we discuss that maybe we'd meet him. We never do.

And, but we pitched who could that actor be? Who do we want to get? The pitch that made everyone laugh the hardest is that eventually after many, many episodes, we meet him and it's Chris. And we realized that Chris has officially cracked and gone crazy. And he's never had a therapist and it made,

it still makes me laugh. God, that's awesome. That's funny. That's so funny. I never heard that. Oh my God, that's awesome. That's funny. That's so funny. I had never heard that. That's funny. Yeah, yeah.

That's hilarious. Let's forge on with our episode because there's so much more to talk about, many more jam scenes especially. Finding herself once again backed into a corner by Joan Calamezzo's hard-hitting journalism on Pawnee Today, Leslie outlines her latest bill,

the Leslie Note Fun in the Sun Act. But not everyone is a fan of the new bill. During a dentist visit to Councilman Jam, Tom finds out that Leslie does not have Jam's support. Now, meanwhile, the 311 information hotline is up and running with Jerry, Ron, Andy, and Donna manning the phones. And when a citizen calls in with complaints of a pothole in front of her house, Ron takes things into his own hands, as he often does, going out into the field with Andy to fix it. Back in

D.C., Ben and April begin their road trip to Pawnee, but can't make it out of the parking structure due to a presidential motorcade passing by. Wow, that is a lot. Yeah, and I want to just say, I feel like this little chunk, which ultimately is maybe four minutes of television in Parks and Rec, that is a lot. because of how many great story moves were in there. And you mentioned you begin with Joan Calamezzo. She is a mess in this episode.

I don't know what has happened to her the night before, but she looks like hell. If you look at her and you know Joan, Joan has had it. Something has gone bad the night before. Mo Collins is so funny as that character. Again, as soon as you see her, it's like, oh, Jesus, you know what's coming,

and she's just like... I forgot even about that scene watching the episode. And as soon as it cuts, I was like, oh, right. Oh, my God. She's so funny. Like, she's just hilarious. And there's all these characters in the show that are just so good. And I don't know. She's one of the funniest, I think.

You have the strong, you have strong writing. And then if you get strong casting and you get the right actor for the right part, it's perfect. And Mo was one of those people. You are one of those people, John, the show really nailed that in so many ways.

Yeah. She was so funny because I love that. We don't know what's happened to Joan. We're not even going to find out, but we all love the character and we know that Joan's a mess and who knows what happened the night before, but she of course can barely look at Leslie. Because she's always pissy with Leslie, which makes me laugh.

Because really, for no reason. Leslie always goes on there with the greatest of intentions to promote whatever wonderful things she's trying to do. But Joan is having none of it. None. Right. Each time, it's almost like Leslie's disarmed. Each time, it's like oh yes this is who joan is and i have to put up a fight and and yes it's great there's a great callback

in this episode to leslie cleaning up the pawnee riverbed when the pawnee porpoise swim captain approaches her about extending the pool hours and also leslie's porpoise call is great it's kind of it's a good porpoise call but it it's kind of great, and the reaction, I think is what makes it cringeworthy, but it's amazing. It's a good porpoise. It's a good porpoise. That's the other good thing about the show. There's strong animal recreation.

Yes, that is what we're known for. Right. A lot of good animal noises that are very realistic. Well, let's talk about the hot mess that is the 311 hotline. Jerry's line is full of static and then connects to 911 calls

instead of 311. Later in the episode, we find that this never gets resolved when a woman in labor calls into his line. We don't know what happened. You know, Jim, we know how you are with technology. The worst.

In real life. The worst. Let's push on, gentlemen, we know how you are with technology. The worst. In real life. The worst. Let's push on, gentlemen, into our synopsis. Undaunted by Councilman Jam's lack of support, Leslie tries to win Councilman Milton's vote instead. But when her plan comes up short, she's forced to make an under-the-table deal with Councilman Jam, giving up her office and parking spot

and agreeing to Invisalign in exchange for his vote. Meanwhile, Ron and Andy arrive at the site of the pothole to get to work, where they find two little girls playing princess in the front yard. The girls convince Andy to play dress up with them, while Ron strikes up a conversation with their mother, Diane, Lucy Lawless. The chemistry is undeniable, and in an effort to impress his new love interest, Ron agrees to let the girls dress him up like a princess as well, but when Diane laughs at him

instead, he flees the scene in embarrassment. So there's a lot of story packed into those paragraphs. Yeah, that scene with the councilman Milton? Yeah. God damn it. Oh, God damn, that was funny as hell. That guy, what's that actor's name? I can't remember.

I actually have it on our notes here. Yeah, that's played by James Green, who sadly passed back in 2018, 91 years old, meaning he was 85 at the time of this production. That's amazing. 85 years old doing that. That's incredible. And he had a moment. He was having this great moment. He was on Brooklyn Nine-Nine as well. And these other great comedies of the 2010s. And to be able to nail comedy at that age and to deliver that role was just great.

Seeing that scene, it was just, goddammit, it was so, when he goes down, it was awesome. It was awesome. It's a pure comedy scene too, right? The truth is you could cut that scene out and it doesn't change the storyline that much because ultimately it's just Leslie is struggling and needs to make a deal. And you could just learn the fact that she isn't able to get anyone else's vote.

Even the Joan scene, I think what's fun about this storyline is it provides opportunities for pure comedy, pure fun scenes where we can just experience the how Bill becomes a law allowing for these nice variations, right, that aren't so plot heavy. And so what I love about

the Councilman Milton scene is now we have this old-fashioned, clearly racist, councilman, you know, a member of the Dixie Crap Party whose platform was to deintegrate baseball. There's that campaign poster in the background of a white umpire

throwing a black baseball player out of the game with the caption, you're out of here. Oh, that's brilliant. A picture of Strom Thurmond is behind Milton. There was so much good shit like that I loved all the murals In the city hall

The murals are the best Jesus Christ, those were so Funny Those were so good Did anyone keep those or did they all get destroyed? Yes, they've all been They're definitely kept Some people have them, some production people have them.

They were beautiful. But I think our props department, our set deck people, all the things I've worked on have made just the best stuff and had some of the weirdest prompts and the weirdest things they had to make. They were amazing.

That always feels like just one of the most fun jobs on a show, a comedy show, where you get to make the funniest, weirdest shit, and then as a writer, to actually see these things get made, and they're real, and you can hold them, and it's just the best, and they make them so, so good. The two things that I got to keep from the show, I have the

blue satin jacket that's coming up later in this episode. And I have a flask. Um, and they're just like, it's, it's the best. I actually have this photo of my son when he was probably, I don't know, 11 or 12 and he had big hair at the time and he put the jacket on and we brushed his hair like mine and did like a side by side. It's's the fucking cutest man oh that's so funny young jam oh my god oh that's so funny to think about i know i was always wondering like are we gonna find out if jam has like a secret family or anything like that would have been really funny but whatever there's a million ways you can go but i was always curious about that. Oh my God, that would have been so fun to have him do like a walk-on bit.

Oh yeah, to see the secret life of Jam. Yeah, but every department on the show was solid. Oh yeah. Every design aspect, just, yeah. It was, you know, Leslie always said it was, you know, lightning in a bottle that it just all came together like it did.

Because, you know, that doesn't always happen. It just doesn't always happen. No, I agree. Yeah, our departments, our set deck people here and props like definitely steal the show. But I also feel like Jam just steals the show every scene he's in. And John, you got great lines and just delivered them in this way that added to the character. One of the things that I'd forgotten that really cracked me up rewatching is Thompson jams office. And he says, you know, DDS for dentist.

DDS doesn't stand for dumb, dumb, stupid. And just like, I like that. I'm going to steal it. That's mine now. That's mine now. Yeah. It's this little moments that demonstrate who this character is to a T, just in very few words. You didn't say, can I use that?

You said, I'm stealing that. It's mine now. It's mine now. Period. Well, it's really, you know, one of the things, and I'm guessing this has maybe been discussed either on the podcast or just outside of it. One thing about the show, the fact that it ended, and we do not need to go on a Trump tangent, but the fact that the show ended right before all that shit. And it's just, cause even with jam, one of the challenges is, you know, you want to make it funny, but it's got to feel somewhat real, you know, so it's not just a broad caricature.

And then when Trump comes in office and all these people have been emboldened to say whatever the fuck they want, it's just stunning. And then of course, with Veep, that show became even more of a mirror and then, and then life transcended it where it's like, it's just bizarre, but it always felt like, oh man, it would have been good to be doing the show while that was going on. Cause I would have been very curious what the writers would have come up with but at the same time you can also argue no it's great that it happened when it did and was not affected or influenced by that it goes both ways but I was it was hard not to be curious about oh what would the storylines have been on the show

you know what I'm saying? I was always, whatever. I think it's a really great point because I think the show would look different if it were on now. The characters will look different. The way that they talk about small government and local government would be different. But I hadn't thought about this other thing

you're pointing out, which is all these other characters in the world, like Jam kind of feels like some people we see in Congress now. You know, this brazen openness to not just be polarizing, to be an extreme left or right, but to also be quite proud of that part of it, too. That's the thing, like to see such unbelievable stupidity on display and have a confidence behind it is truly, and to actually see it come to life is mind blowing. Because with jam, there's always going to be things like, and I've met people in all walks of life. There was a guy that, uh, when my son was little, I helped coach little league baseball. There was a dad. If you saw that character in a movie, you'd think no one talks like that. No one would ever do that. And sure enough, this guy, I could not believe the things he would say, couldn't believe the things he would

do. It was stunning. And so there were times with Jam where it's like, I know this is funny, but you know, it's going a little, not overboard, but, and it's just, it's not far-fetched in the least. Let me bring us back to talk about No Shame, because Leslie had no shame in deciding to get a perm.

And this also feels like it has this Dan Gore energy to it, like there's this, we have a set piece here where Leslie's going to get a perm and it's this added color to the episode, completely unneeded ultimately, but it's so fun. A fun call out is that the stylist, Autumn, who's doing her perm,

is our amazing makeup person, hair makeup person, Autumn Butler. Autumn Butler, we love Autumn. Shout. Autumn Butler. We love Autumn. Shout out, Autumn. We love you. One of the sweetest, one of the greatest. And it's so fun to see our crew

get an opportunity to do things, especially when it's fitting. And she was really funny. And she was really funny. Super short thing, but great performance, which not everyone's going to do through no fault of their own

if they're not a performer. But when I was watching, I was like, Oh, that was hilarious. She just nailed that. It was perfect. Yeah. It made me laugh. And you know, to this day, autumn's one of everyone's go-to is the best. She's so nice. That whole, that whole department was great. Like for me, it was just fun going to the trailer. Everyone's cool. Everyone's funny. It was always fun in there. God damn it. That was the best. That was so good. It was the best job. I agree. I agree. Andy and Ron

in these scenes with Diane and her daughters, it's so sweet. I mean, we get to see Ron who's reluctant to show that side of himself until he has a good reason. And Andy just goes full bar, like, just can't wait to play tag or chase. I think it's interesting. I'm watching it. The premise is, it's weird because I don't know if we'll make the cut today. It's these two men who come up to these two kids. I thought the same thing.

I know where you're going. Right? And Angie very quickly is chasing and playing with them. I think Parks pulls it off and maybe still could pull it off because of the sweetness. You never worry it's going to go in that direction. It breaks good in a way. But it's interesting. I wonder if we would have made it out of the pitch stage.

It is strange. This large man is running after these two little girls to play with them. That is a red flag in many ways. But for fans of the show, my God, who wouldn't want to play with Andy? I mean, he's an adult baby. To me, it just works because of the show, And it's so funny. And Chris is obviously hilarious. I also want to just, this is maybe a little annoying because I want to just say, you know, I haven't known Nick for a while. And to me, he's, he's one of the all-time great, just actors, performers. And it always,

I listen, I, we all, I think agree award shows are stupid, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They are. I know where you're going. You're going to get me started. But the fact that he was never nominated for Parks and Rec was always mine. I'm like, did he never get nominated for the show? Never. Never, never. That always kind of blew me away.

And it's like, listen, for what it's worth, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I always felt like he's so fucking great. And the fact that he finally won an Emmy, again, for what it's worth, I was just super happy for him. Not that he gives a shit either. But, you know, it's just he's so good. He's so – and everybody is in the show. But watching him in that scene, watching him in every scene he does, I was just like, I wanted to just throw that in there because I was pumped for him for this thing he won for, I think,

The Last of Us, but he's just so great, and watching his character there, like, I don't know, it was just, it was more of that. The listeners of this show have heard me rant the exact same rant 10 different times. It never made sense. It made me think less of the Emmys. And so, yes, I'm thrilled he got that Emmy the other night. It's so well-deserved. But he should have a stack of them on his shelf. It should not have been the first one. It is interesting because Ron Swanson,

I think, transcends the show. He's an archetype. Like, you could see... I feel like I've seen ad campaigns where the character feels like it's a Ron Swanson, you know, spinoff. And that is, sure, it's writing, but that's Nick. Yeah, I agree. It is a very iconic character from a show full of great characters. You know, performance-wise, writing-wise, character-wise, visually, you know, the mustache, like everything about it is just pretty uh transcendent

there is a handful of actors out there where you can audition to try to do that or here's the people that are just they are that like people like nick uh people like you know mike shannon is a guy that comes to mind people that are just you can't do what they do because they are just so unique and nick has always been a guy like that for me and for a lot of people anyway. But we are on the same page, my friend. Ironically, two more Chicago guys. It's the Chicago actors. That's right, baby.

Come on. Give them their due. And the North Hollywood, California writers. Of course. Okay, moving on. Moving on. Moving on. Let's wrap up our synopsis with the last little bit.

Back in D.C., the motorcade has finally cleared, and as Ben pulls forward, his car runs out of gas, leaving him and April stranded. Exhausted from the entire ordeal, Ben and April push the car back into a parking spot, and Ben offers to buy them both plane tickets to visit Leslie and Auntie for the following weekend. So nice.

Meanwhile, back at the Parks Department, Ron denies having feelings for Diane, but Andy knows better and leaves a message for Diane in sidewalk chalk on the freshly paved pothole. That was so cute. Telling her that Ron likes her and where to find him. Diane takes note showing up at City Hall and asks Ron out for dinner. Smitten, Ron agrees. And at the same time, Leslie's deal with Councilman Jam has worked, and her bill passes. The

Pawnee Porpoises join Leslie at the pool for a press conference, and when Councilman Jam tries to ruin the moment, Tom pushes him into the pool, and so to make things less awkward, Leslie and Tom jump in the pool too, straightening out Leslie's half- half perm in the process. And later, as a thank you for his help, Leslie sets up a VIP cigar smoking room for Tom in her new smaller office.

But after one puff, Tom realizes he hates cigars and wouldn't want to be a member of the Smokehouse Cigar Club anyway. I have to ask, even though there's so much to get into here, John, how many times did they make you do the pool jump in? How many takes? Oh, man, I'm trying to remember. Because it had to be a mess to reset everybody. Your hair, Amy's hair. Maybe we just did it once. Maybe it was something where we just got the, I do not remember actually, and I'm surprised I don't.

But maybe it's just because we did it once where it's like, cover this, cover this well, we're getting it once. But I don't, I don't remember, but, uh, it certainly feels like something we'd probably just do one time. And then, but maybe we did it twice. I really don't remember. I'm sorry to say. Well, and like you said, as long as you know, if that's the goal, you get enough coverage, you get enough cameras on it. You should be able to get it. And I even looking i'm like did they have a stuntman jump in for me on the push i don't remember i don't know i can't remember for sure it looked

like you to me well for sure in the pool but maybe the i don't remember like but the thing i was going to mention was not even my scene like again about nick like his giggle like you know it's just and that's his real giggle basically right that's his real like giggle yeah and it's just so great that that that's that character's laugh it's just another perfect piece of the puzzle for that character and for nick like it just is every time he laughs in that character it's just the best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's an anachronistic quality to it, right? But then because of that anachronism, it's so great that something so joyful and cute can come out of a guy who tries not to be those two things. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So good. And him in the makeup with those kids. Oh, with the little sticker that sticks to his mustache in a way that like, I don't know things could stick to hair that well. So funny. It's great. It's great.

There's so much to talk about in this episode and that we're not even able to get into from little bits with April and Ben in the car and more with Lucy Lawless as Diane. But the great news is that Lucy is going to stick around. Diane sticks around. So we have so much more to talk about there. Yeah, Lucy is also what a lovely, lovely person. She fit right in. She was fun. She got our senses of humor right away, and I think she was really excited to be there, and that always helps when people are excited to be on a job.

I have a very quick, I'll just say this story. It's not like the best story, but when I was working at Conan, you know, I don't know if people knew this. I was a writer there for five years. And at one of, he had like a holiday party at his, at where he was living at the time in the Upper West side. And, you know, we all went and then there was various people showed up and I, she might've just done the show as a guest for Zena. And she was there and my hair was pretty big at the time. Like she, she came up to me and she was there and my hair was pretty big at the time like she she came up to me and like again I had a pretty big fro and she she and I'll do a shitty New Zealand accent she's like oh you look like Krusty Krusty the clown or whatever god that's a terrible accent

but she she said that to me and she was trying to be nice but it was like oh uh I guess thanks yeah but that killed me man and then I to be nice, but it was like, oh, I guess thanks. Yeah, really. But that killed me, man. And I don't think I ever met her after that, but you're like Krusty. Oh, wow. I think it was so fun to have her. Tim, we should get into this in future episodes, too. But it's so fun to have someone like her because she is so iconic for a very specific role.

like her because she is so iconic for a very specific role. And so it's fun to see those types of people do something different, but also drafting off of the fun of that notoriety from that first role. Well, we've come to Jim's crap, which is the crap we didn't get to. Jim, I know we talked about a lot. Were there little things that delighted you that we didn't get to call out? Well, I mean, to actually quote what Jim said, he wanted Leslie to know that I can't wait to drop my kids off at the pool. And by kids, I mean turds. And he goes,

you got it? He goes, yeah, I get it. Just brilliant, John. Just brilliant. Also, a little moment. Let's give Adam Scott a shout out. When he's getting ready for the car trip, he's going to jam out to some sweet tunage. And the way Adam plays those, oh, I don't know. He just kills me. I have a bunch of jam notes here. Joan Calamezo calls herself first-rate newswoman Joan Calamezo. It kills me. She is the least one that should ever be considered

a first-rate... Chris says to Ron regarding Diane, what did you do to her? Ron, I fixed her pothole. Chris, is that a euphemism? Ron, no. Chris, well, then it was great work. No.

Yeah, no. No. Was it a euphemism? And that's some crap we didn't get to. That's great crap. I have one piece of crap to add to yours, if I may, just to really fill the bowl, which is that as a big Star Trek The Next Generation fan, as we've talked a little bit here, I just love that we not only learn

that Ben has written fan fiction, but we get a snippet of it in the car. And it's longer than this quote, but it says, Data had never felt this way before. Of course, Data had never felt anything before. And it goes on, but that pause, and then Adam does this great look to Aubrey of pride in his writing,

and you know what I mean. Oh, God, it was so funny. So funny. And, of course, we could go on forever about Aubrey in this episode, her messing with his head, and we're going, we're not going, we're going, and then him at the end doing it to her. Yeah.

An episode MVP we have today. We like to talk about a character moment in the episode or a character that sticks out to us the most and why. Jim, do you want to start us off? I'm sorry, and I'm not just doing it because he's here, but Jam. I mean, John Glazer, you nailed this episode. We were introduced to this guy

that we are now going to love, hate for the rest of the show. And so I'm giving the nod to Jam. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Yeah, I got to echo that. I mean, we meet the guy on the toilet and he lives up to that image. You have 17 more episodes and an arc that is so fun.

I mean, it's hard to picture the second half of the series without Jam. He's pivotal to both Leslie's storyline, but also his own storyline. He'll show up with Ron and Tammy at some point. There's a lot to come with Jam. Oh, the Tammy, yes. I know, objectively,

it was a great character to introduce, and then not so objectively, just a fantastic performance. Yes. Not so objectively, absolutely. Absolutely performance. Yes. Not so objectively. Absolutely. Absolutely. But it's great. But if you couldn't pick yourself, John, is there someone that,

is there a moment or a character that really got you this episode? I think Nick. I'm just such a, I mean, there's so many great performances, but it's just such a great story for his character, and really when you see this other side of him, it's really sweet and funny. I'll go with Nick. It's valid.

It's valid. Amazing. Well, guys, this has been an absolute blast. John, it has been so fun having you here. As a guy who also just lived off watching Conan

and seeing you on Conan, my first introduction to you was not Parks and Rec, was your bits on Conan. It's so fun to now not only have you on the show, but to have you on this podcast. Thank you so much for being here with us.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was really, I was so excited to do it. And it's been very, very enjoyable to look at these episodes again. You got it. Thanks, John. Yeah, thanks guys. Appreciate it.

And thank you all for listening. Text this episode to your group chat. Give us five-star reviews wherever you're listening to us. Thanks to our engineer, Joe, our producer, Lisa, Jim, always a pleasure. Really? And from all of us here at Parks and Recollection, goodbye from Pawnee. Bye-bye.

Parks and Recollection is produced by me, Lisa Berm, and engineered by Joanna Samuel. The podcast is executive produced by Jeff Ross, Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, and Nick Liao. Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn are our talent bookers, along with assistance from Maddie Ogden.

Our theme song is by Mouse Rat, aka Mark Rivers, with additional tracks composed by John Danik. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time on Parks and Recollection. This has been a Team Coco production.