Parks and Recollection - Kevin Dorff: Bowling for Votes (S4E13)

Episode Date: July 11, 2023

Comedian, actor, and writer Kevin Dorff (known for his work with Conan O'Brien and his appearances on shows like The Office, 30 Rock, and White House Plumbers) joins Jim O'Heir and Greg Levine to discuss his role as Derek in “Bowling for Votes.” Yes, this is the episode where Ben Wyatt punches a guy. It’s also the episode where: Jerry Gergich gives a stranger his social security number, Tom Haverford stumbles upon the most effective (and most embarrassing) bowling technique in history, and Chris Traeger gets his heart broken. Jim and Greg discuss all this and more on this week’s episode, give it a listen and stick around to hear Kevin Dorff (beginning around 37:35)! Got a question for the Pawnee Town Hall? Send us an email at [e-mail]!

We're getting together to talk about all the things we used to do The laughs, the passions, the little Sebastian's, the pets we fell into And we're putting it on in a podcast, then we'll send it up into the sky Then we'll send it up into the sky We're calling it Parks and Recollection Come on little podcast Spread your wings and fly Okay, welcome back to Parks and Recollection! Yay!

I am one of your hosts, Jim O'Hare Gary, Larry, Jerry, Terry, even Barry And who are you? I'm the other one of your hosts, Jim O'Hare, Gary, Larry, Jerry, Terry, even Barry. And who are you? I'm the other one of your hosts, but maybe, I don't know, maybe it should just be me. Just be you. You just be you. And you are?

Greg Levine. Greg Levine. Still the me. Not much has changed. Nothing has changed other than you're now a month into this baby situation. I'm a month into having a, I have a one month old and a two and a half year old. And, uh,

it's a lot. I don't think I realized how much, how easy one is, how easy a baby is until you, you have two kids now, but with all hands on deck for one, and now you got to split one's kids yeah. One kid's doing the one thing. I think, I don't know, and I mean, some people have played doctors on television, so they think I'm a doctor.

I suggest putting them in rooms and shutting the door and move on. Right. I birthed you into, I didn't do it, but we birthed you into the world. Yes, you've done your job. We're off duty now. We've saddled you with mortality. It's your turn to deal with it. I mean, this whole three meals a day, that seems like overkill.

Three meals a day? A baby has eight to nine to ten meals a day? Well, so do I. What are we talking about? I'm so sorry. I got no problem with that. You have second lunch and third dinner. Yes, you have to.

So anyway, yes, it's wonderful to be out of the house, to be with other people. Even if it's me. Even if it's you. Then that's what I was going to say. I love my family, but it's also nice to get out of the house to be with other people. Even if it's me. Even if it's you, then that's what I was going to say. I love my family, but it's also nice to get out of the house and I settled

for coming here with you. I get it. We are talking about Bowling for Votes. It was written by Katie Dippold, directed by Michael Trim, originally aired on January 26, 2012. And it's going to guest star an amazing guy, Kevin Dorff.

And people should stick around at the end of this episode because we have an amazing chat conversation with him. We had a great talk with Kevin. We laughed so hard. Kevin and I kind of a little bit of the same path of how this crazy business happened. And it was great. So you're definitely going to want to stick around for Kevin.

Jim, if you can blurb the kind listener. I will blurb this. Leslie and Ben host a bowling night after receiving feedback about Leslie's campaign. Leslie chases one vote in particular, culminating in punches being thrown. April, Chris, and Jerry

hold a competition to see who can raise the most funds. Ron and Ann are embarrassed by Tom's childlike bowling technique in contrast to Ron's straightforward technique, of course, and Ann's absolutely terrible technique. So this is a fun episode, Jim. I mean, they're all fun episodes. This is a fun episode in also that Leslie's going to have a journey where maybe it doesn't,

she doesn't really win, right? Where the victory is, it's not like she came up with this great solution to this problem and oh my God, Leslie's cleverness.

It was more she had this dogged attempt to like make this person like her. And the expense of everything else. Yes, and it doesn't go great.

It doesn't go great. And that's okay. In fact, maybe she finds a backbone or a grit she didn't know she had in the fight for her campaign. But I love that. And I also thought we should talk about one of our notes here is that the inspiration for this story came from the concept in politics called the beer question. story came from the concept in politics called the beer question. You know, this where the idea, it's a thought experiment. It's attempting to, you know, you're measuring likability and authenticity by asking voters if they'd like to get a beer with that politician. And now when you think and you hear that, like, oh, there's been all these great moments, you know, I think to the 2008 and 2012 elections, both times where maybe there was a sense that people thought that was John McCain or Barack Obama more likable?

Were they more folksy? And can I chat with them? And, you know, that idea, like, could you imagine getting a beer with that person? And there have been beer summits at the White House when a president or someone stepped in it or two people, whatever, come over, let's have a beer and hash it out. And so that idea of would you like to get a beer with that politician is kind of what started this. And instead of a beer, it's would you go bowling with that person? Yeah. Well, focus groups have been around forever. Right. They just have. And it is a great way. Now, of course, Leslie, she could hear one million wonderful things.

Right. And it won't matter. Right. Because if one person has one little negative, that's where we're going. Yeah. There's a great Seinfeld episode where someone says to Elaine, calls her big head. You have a big head.

And then that just sticks with her the whole time. And they're like, why do you even care? You don't even like the guy, right? But it's like that thought just stays with you. Yeah, I get it. Another Knope's notes is that one focus group participant calls Leslie Knope, quote, aggressively short. Yes.

In truth, Leslie and Amy are five foot two, making her only two inches shorter than the average American woman. I never think of Amy as being, I think of her as a tiny woman. Okay. But I never really thought of her as short, and I guess she is. Well, she is only two inches shorter than the average American woman. But two inches is two inches. Yeah.

Well. How many times do you wish? I don't want you to, I don't want you. I know what you're thinking and I just don't want you to go there. Yeah. And you know, if you don't move along,

I will. So you do you. Great. One last note before we jump into our synopsis is that Leslie repeatedly says the phrase classic Derek

to Kevin Dorff's character and this line is later repeated in Mike Shore's other show, The Good Place. Yay. Yeah.

I use that term all the time. Classic Derek? I won't. Oh, classic anybody. Oh. So if I'm telling the story about somebody, I'll go, oh, well, that was classic Beth. Or like, oh, that's classic Greg from this. And I was also a Good Place fan too.

So. Yes, yes. I like it. Well, let's talk about this episode in our synopsis. Leslie and her campaign team hold a focus group to gauge the public's view on her. One participant named Derek, Kevin Dorff, says he won't

vote for Leslie because he feels she isn't the type of person he'd be able to go bowling with. Leslie becomes determined to win Derek's vote and decides to hold a bowling night at Ricky's Rock and Roll Bowling Alley. Meanwhile, Sherry, hey, it's you, Jim.

That is me. Organizes an all-night phone bank fundraiser at Andy and April's house. I'm just pausing to think. That's exactly what people want for a city council race is to be called all night. Exactly. They're having an all-night phone bank fundraiser at Andy and April's house with two movie tickets going to the person who raises the most money. Chris wants to win the fundraiser so he can take his girlfriend, Jerry's daughter, Millie, out, while April wants to win in order to dampen the overly cheerful Chris. And also to add to that thing, the prize is two tickets to a monoplex.

Yes, I wrote that too. It's the Pawnee Monoplex. And it's such a, it's like milk a joke wherever you can, right? No one calls out the fact that it's a monoplex, but it's the Pawnee Monoplex. And Jerry says it with such glee. Oh, so happy. Like, wow. Yeah.

Look what's happening here. But it's also crazy that Chris is blown away by the prize. I mean, it's just two free movie passes. How cheap is Chris that he wants to win so he can use them for a date? Yeah, that's... Like, what's he doing when he isn't winning free movie tickets? Where is he taking Millie? Yeah, do we think Chris is wealthy? Do we have any idea?

He's probably spent so much money on his Bumbleflex. Health and pills. All this stuff. And the thing he's hanging from. Yeah. Yeah. And his special shoes and all that kind of stuff. No, yeah.

No, he needs like a GoFundMe to take his girlfriend out. Yeah, because he's overly excited about two tickets to the monoplex. Yes, yes. I can take Millicent Gurgich out. I mean, this is a fun time. This must have been fun for you on set. These are some of my favorite, favorite, favorite.

Whenever we're all together, I would always say my favorite, because they were more consistent, was anything in the conference room. Put us in the conference room. It meant, because remember, when we're shooting these, you know, the audience is seeing the conference room. It meant, because remember when we're shooting these, you know, the audience is seeing the final product. We're in there for hours. We're in there. You're doing take after take and then ideas and this one wants to do this and this one. And then we do the fun runs. And so you're in there for hours. I love that kind of stuff. So here we

are in April and Andy's house and technically Ben's too, right? Yeah, Ben is living there. Ben is living there too. It's just a nightmare. And Champion. And Champion. We have Champion in this episode too. God bless Champion. So these are my favorite type of days because it's going to be a lot of sitting around, a lot of

laughing, a lot of telling stories. And Rob was in this. Rob is a great storyteller. He's been around. He's seen it all. So these are kind of my favorite days. And when you get to hang with Pratt all day, you never know what's coming out of that mouth in the best way possible. Yeah, yeah.

Because that's... Yeah, yeah. He is truly some of my favorite days. Well, it's a great storyline. And there's more to come from it. But let's jump back to the A story. You know, we're talking about focus groups and it is so fun to see Leslie's frustration. You don't often get to see this version of her like, you know, dogged, like I can do this. But she's got this frustration and it eats away at her and it will cause her to

reject the great advice she gets numerous times from her campaign manager slash lover Ben Wyatt. And she just wants this guy to like her. At all costs. That's a great point. Meaning all these other voters don't matter.

And Ben will say that at some point in the episode to be like, you're focused. They use the analogy of the bowling pins that she wants to knock down these pins. And Ben says, you're focusing on this one pin and at the cost of all these other ones. Exactly. And it's a good point that she kind of lost the forest for the trees. Let me ask you a question. Just because it hit my mind and I wrote down a note for it.

And this might be something you're not aware of or you don't know how it all went. Okay. When Parks, did they do a focus group on Parks? Did they put it out to people to get, because in showbiz, there's this term, the Q rating.

Like actors get Q ratings and people hold a button and as they're watching something they go higher or lower with their interest or who they think is interesting or whatever do you know was there a Parkstrom Rec focus group I think there was I think they at the time I don't know the details of it but I I remember the time. I think they tested every pilot that they would make, the networks would. I don't know about that, but it's reminding me that I remember hearing that NBC conducted a test screening for the pilot of Friends. And the episode received an audience score of like 41 out of 100. Whoa, that ain't good.

Yes. 41 out of 100. Whoa, that ain't good. Yes. And people were saying that the audience was saying that the characters were smug or superficial. They called them things like self-absorbed. And that the central perk, coffee house setting, was, quote, confusing.

Oh. But, you know. How does it go from a 41 to getting on the air? Like, what is the point of a focus group if they're not listening? And thank God they didn't because look what friends became. Right. Well, you know, someone once told me that the film business, the TV business is those two things. It's film and TV, which is naturally creative.

And it's a business. And it's about the marriage of those two. And sometimes people listen to focus groups too much. Yeah. Like Leslie. Yes. Listening way too much to this focus group. Before we jump back into our synopsis,

something else I wanted to call out about the storyline about the campaign fundraiser. Jim, we rarely get to see Jerry in charge. How shocking is that? In fact, I'm remembering the last time I feel like Jerry was truly in charge was when there was that presentation where the projector doesn't work and you bend over and you split your pants. Anytime Jerry is given this.

Also directed by Mike Tr mike trim who directed this episode coincidence i don't know so how did that feel uh it's powerful i i just wonder how did you guys let that happen yeah i'll tell you what how did the writers let it happen i think some people were asleep at the wheel no it's great and and i love chris calls it out even like wow jerry's in charge yeah yeah yeah wow this is something and. And Jerry takes much pride in it. The thing, you know, I've said it about Jerry. He's such a sweet man. He will do anything to help Leslie.

I mean, he'll do anything to help any of them. But if this is going to help Leslie in her campaign, Jerry's going to be on board. Right. Just like Jerry happily searched all over Indiana for Leslie's book about where she might have been born, whatever, for any inaccuracies, you'll do anything for Leslie no matter how she reacts

to those things. And then even when they find the mistake that was in the book, Jerry is the last one to find that out and she tells him, no, keep looking. And he continues to go out.

Because that's who Jerry is. Damn it, he's going to do it. Yeah. So he's going to raise some money and also, you know, kind of jumps where we are now. But when you, to me, to watch this episode, what's really funny is, if you guys are going to rewatch it, watch the tally numbers. Yes, they will. Of course you will.

Watch the tally numbers. Like, who's bringing in how much money? Yes. It really is funny. It's really great. Donna could give a crap. I know. Any of it. Well, let's get into that because there's this great run we'll talk about soon when everyone calls the different people.

In our synopsis, at the bowling night, Tom embarrasses Ron and Ann with his embarrassing yet highly effective bowling technique where he bends down and rolls it down the lane. Leslie challenges Derek to a game of bowling and lets him win while giving him free food and beer. But he still refuses to vote for her, angering her and challenging and she then challenges him to a rematch. Chris announces that he is going to ask Millie to move in with him, but Jerry privately reveals to everyone that Millie is planning to end the relationship. Ooh.

Yeah. Jerry knew the dirt. He knew what was going on. And you rarely get to see that from Jerry too, where he's not just in, he's not just in charge, but in fact, he holds the secret. It's normally just the opposite. He doesn't know what's happening around him. He holds the comedy game that turns this episode, which is so fun.

You have to remember, in my opinion, the Gergich's are a very tight family. Just tight. I mean, they have breakfast together. They sing songs together at the breakfast table that would make you want to vomit. But this is who they are. And I think those kids love their parents. And I think they discuss everything. And so Jerry wants everyone to be happy. He doesn't want Chris's heart to be broken.

But also, this is his daughter and she's, I would imagine, more priority than Chris would be, even though he loves everybody. But yeah, it's very different when Jerry has the inside scoop on what's about to happen. Let's talk about the bowling alley.

Yeah, which by the way, I want it to be known, I could bowl as far as equally with Derek. Because they say he's like a 134, 135 errors. I think that's me. Oh. I don't bowl often. Are we going bowling after this?

No. I really, I think it would be bad. Okay. Though I did win a trophy once for getting a 218. Of course, I was like 14 years old. Wow. It was just one of those days where I could have thrown it anywhere and it would have gone in. Right, right.

It's like some days I golf. It wasn't you. It was the ball. Exactly. Some days you golf and you're like, wow, that thing went in the air. How'd that happen? Right, right. You know, and it's what keeps you playing golf.

Well, good for you. Good for me. But a 218 and a little trophy, third place for something. But yeah, in general, I could bowl equally with Derek. That's impressive. We're equally horrible bowlers. Okay, yes. You're just fine.

Yes, well. So in the bowling alley, the bowling alley has Ron's favorite restaurant. It's the counter there that serves $1 hot dogs and $1.35 burgers. And I love how Ann says, you're not scared to eat here? And Ron says, when I eat, it's the food that is scared.

That's such a great Ron line. It's so funny because Rashida plays the straight man here. She's setting up this joke. But it's so that we can get a great joke in here. When I eat, it's the food that is scared. It feels like you can see that with Ron Swanson's face

on a t-shirt. I guarantee it's on a t-shirt. Go down to Venice. Okay. And his Venice, Italy, Venice, California on the beach,

go all those places and sell the t-shirts and the mugs and everything. Oh yeah. The parks were all over those t-shirts. Mostly, mostly Ron Swanson. And I'm sure there is a, when I eat, it is the food that is scared.

I would guarantee it, but a buck for a dog and a buck 35 for a burger. Yeah. Well, when Leslie's talking with Derek, you know, according to her research, Derek's interests are bowling, chicken wings, and the TV show Ice Road Truckers. Which I love, by the way. The show itself? Yes. You do.

Oh, my God. I love Ice Road Truckers. Which I love, by the way. The show itself? Yes! Oh my god, I love Ice Road Truckers. They build everything up as if they're about to go careening off of an ice crevice. Never. They never careen off. But I can't stop. And then you come back, you wait for the commercial break, and you come back, and they're like, oh,

and the music is happy again, because right before the commercial break, it's... And then afterwards, well, I's... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then afterwards, well, I just got through that. Thank goodness. We got to get you on Ice Road Truckers. I would love that.

I love that. Oh, my God. Yes. Well, Leslie, you know, knows all of this because she made a binder for tonight's event, which as she does,

she makes binders. It's not just a binder. It's a thick binder. It's a thick binder. But here's what I love about this. This is clearly a Gay Perillo props joke. The front of the binder says, Bowling Comment.

Which means that this binder is not for the entire Bowling for Votes evening. It's not for this meet and greet with your campaign, with the person running for office. It's purely for Derek's one singular bowling comment. Yes. That is how much this got her and how much she's going to throw all of

Leslie. Yeah. Onto it. Let me ask you, was that a gay bit? I think it was. I think it was our props master. I think it was her.

So that was her idea. Yeah, I think so. I, I. I think it was her. So that was her idea. Yeah, I think so. I didn't see it in the script. It could have been from Katie Dippel. It could have been from any number of people. It feels kind of like it was our props people. Well, Gay, whenever she would create books or papers or whatever, it was always brilliant. And then speaking of props, Tom, when he's bowling, is bowling with an Entertainment 720 ball.

Tom, when he's bowling, is bowling with an Entertainment 720 ball. And so it's just funny to think that E720 went down, but they really did spend all their money on a lot of worthless, unnecessary shit, including a bowling ball, which by the looks of Tom's bowling, he doesn't bowl that often. So why does he have a bowling ball? And you know, when you get little gifty bags, when a company sends you something, they're key chains. They're not 12-pound bowling balls.

Exactly. Just the shipping alone. Imagine the money on the shipping for that ball. That's a great point. It's ridiculous. Oh, my God. Love it. Back into the fundraiser, back at Andy Napol's house, some things that really jumped out at me watching it again

that I thought were so funny. One is that Chris is calling someone named Deirdre Blatterforth and says it's the most beautiful name he's ever heard, and you believe him. Yes. In fact, all of the comedy games that happen when everyone's calling their people, it's this killing field scene, right? It's this opportunity to create a comedy game that everybody gets to have fun with. And so you get Chris talking to Deirdre's bladder fork and also telling someone that they, you know, giving them an emotional pep talk.

Jerry's giving his social security number away. That's a normal thing to do. They asked for it and Jerry, so Jerry probably lost $10,000 that night would be my guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's been hacked now and they moved on. He's so simple.

Like, well, and he says, yeah, I guess that couldn't hurt anything. Okay, 210. Yes, yes. Yeah, I was like, I guess you need it, but all right, here we go. And then how April reacts. It's a wonderful,

just good classic comedy scene. It really is. And the fact that April is so... Because you know her. She don't care. She can't believe she's stuck here. I even, you know, I do my things crap,

I forgot to say. One of them I could actually say here when April is told she's going to be there, and Jerry's like, hey, is everyone feeling good? And she's like, oh, I don't know, Jerry. It's Sunday night. I'm making phone calls to strangers, and you're in my house. Like, she is not a happy camper. No, no, no, no. But then she sees something that could make tonight fun.

Yes. And that is to turn Chris's happiness upside down. Back in our episode, Millie arrives at the fundraiser to break up with Chris. That was so uncomfortable for Jerry. Yeah, still seems to be uncomfortable for you. Yes. Leslie wins the rematch against Derek, and then an angry Derek calls Leslie a bitch,

resulting in Ben throwing a punch and knocking Derek to the ground. A smitten Leslie kisses Ben over a bloody Derek, which a newspaper photographer takes a picture. and Leslie kisses Ben over a bloody Derek, which a newspaper photographer takes a picture. Jerry then announces to the fundraising group that Millicent has broken up with Chris and that April has won the fundraiser. Again, Jerry just dropping huge pieces of story.

Yeah, yeah. A one-two punch. But when Jerry is telling, before he's revealed to anybody and he's trying to get rid of Chris to go out. It's so fun to play that kind of stuff because I'm playing Jerry.

So, you know, if Jerry was a different type of person, I would have played it a different kind of way. But Jerry is... You are a capital A actor. Capital A, baby. Capital A. Kind of on this point is that it's great that everyone immediately blames Jerry for

Millicent breaking up with Chris. I mean, it's not his fault or is it? I guess it's Jerry. It has nothing to do with Jerry. No, but it has nothing to do with Jerry, but because your character's involved in it, because Jerry's involved in it, somehow it's Jerry.

Somehow it's Jerry. It comes back to Jerry. Yeah, that's a given. And I also just watch, there's so many great actors on this show. When you watch Aubrey, you know, played April, when she's realizing, because her whole goal is just to make this a terrible night for Chris. She is going to do whatever. And then she realizes, oh, it's going to be a terrible night for Chris.

Yeah. And just watch her face. She's just so good. She's just, I mean, everyone's so good. And it's also uncomfortable because then there's Andy who is oblivious to everything going on around him. And yet he's even like, I got to get out of here. I also love that. This is the most uncomfortable thing ever.

And how does he get out of there? He scoops up the dog. A dog who still can move. It's not just like it's a no-legged dog. Champions missing a leg. We've seen him walk around. He's like, I got to get out of here. I'm going to scoop my dog up. It's a big dog.

I can carry him out. He had to get out. Yeah, he had to get out. That really made me laugh so hard because for Andy to be uncomfortable, you know this is the most uncomfortable situation in the world. If Andy can't even handle it. Yes, yes. Well, in the bowling alley, there's these...

I mean, Tom, God bless him bowling and how much it aggravates Ron. Even Ann is like, dude, what are you doing? They're all embarrassed here to be with that person who's bowling that way. You know what I mean? But that fact that he

keeps doing well pisses off Ron so much. But Ron just can't stop keeping to be like, son, there are people watching you. He says, people are watching. But after a great bowling strike, Tom

says, King Kong ain't got nothing on me. Ow, my fingy hurts. My fingy. My fingy. And that voice, he gets so high. And at this point, and Anne's there, the nurse. Yeah.

Also. Thank God she's a nurse. We got another medical entry. It's always good to have a doctor or nurse as a friend. Somewhere nearby. And in your bowling league. Yeah. Let's keep going with our synopsis.

Yes. April feels guilty that her wish to see Chris sad came true. The next day, she buys a third movie ticket, really breaking the bank here, and offers a depressed Chris to join her and Andy at the movies, giving him a quick hug. Leslie refuses to accept Ben's resignation over the punch and holds a press conference to apologize to Derek. She backtracks, admitting that she is not sorry

and will not disavow Ben. Derek calls Leslie a bitch again into the microphone. And at a focus group about the press conference, the participants give Leslie very favorable opinions. And at the very end of our tag, Ron later returns to the bowling alley in disguise and tries out Tom's technique, bowling a perfect game. 300, baby. Oh, my God. A lot of stuff in our ending. A lot.

Every character's got something big. Here's, if you don't mind, I'm going to jump into the April and Chris thing. I do, but I'll let you do it. Yeah, you have no choice.

This scene, so we realize Chris has been heartbroken. Millie is there. She's being very, like, he's like, oh, we could do this, we could do that.

She goes, no, this won't take much time. And we all know it's coming. He's the only one who doesn't. And then now we know he does know. Everyone feels bad for him. So now they're in the office, and April's going to come in with her, these tickets. Here is what, and I had a moment, too.

And I might be speaking for Rob, and he'd go, nope, that's not what I was thinking, but this is what I saw. So when you're doing comedy, you're doing comedy. And you know you're an actor, you're doing a comedy. But every once in a while in that comedic style you do, you can throw in a real moment, like a true moment. Can you picture in it, and she walks in, they start talking, and then he just kind of looks down with the saddest face. Heartbreaking. And that, in my opinion, again, we could ask Rob, that wasn't a comic actor look. That was a going for the full heartbreaking moment.

And I love that. I had one of those moments. Let's get it back to me now. moment and i love that i had one of those moments let's get it back to me now um and the fart attack episode when they scare me and i i dropped i coming up soon guys coming up soon i remember and i'll talk about this then at the time when we because you know i'll repeat myself big shocker but at the when i real you know i played it, an actor choice. Once I fall back and hit the ground, I'm just staring at Rashida Ann. Yeah.

And I'm really playing it like, what if this was real? So, yeah, Rob was great there. So great. But who was equally great is Aubrey. Always. Yes, always. But this scene, in rewatching it and prep for this, I was kind of blown away. You don't often see April so sweet and vulnerable. She even says she's trying to be nice.

You know, we don't often see the soft side of April come out. That took everything in her. But there was a't often see the soft side of April come out. That took everything in her. But there was a different version of the soft side of April. We've seen it sometimes with Leslie. We see it with Andy. But you don't often see it for any other character. And you saw it here. And I thought Aubrey was phenomenal in this

scene. Aubrey has had this amazing career. I mean, she's amazing. Obviously, people have seen her in the recent season of White Lotus. And she's in Emily the Criminal. And she's an amazing actress. I mean, she's amazing. Obviously people seen her in the recent season of White Lotus and she's an Emily the criminal and she's this, she's an amazing actress. And I love this scene with her. Well, I, you know, as we're still wrapping up these stories, these other great moment with Leslie and Ben, I love how Ben offers to resign to save Leslie. Cause like, man, this guy loves to resign to save Leslie. Yeah.

He's now done it. That's his go-to move. He did it once and he's offering, I'll do it again He's now done it. That's his go-to move. He did it once and he's offering, I'll do it again. I know it works. That's his go-to move. And then we have another great Ben moment with police. Oh, yeah.

He is terrified of the police. And in this case, he's so adrenaline up from that moment of the fight, but it's still, it's like, no, it's the police, isn't it? The police, yeah. And also, Leslie knows this officer, of course,

because Leslie knows everybody. And we see him, it's played by Will McLaughlin, who, I checked it out, he did like seven episodes of Parks. Yeah, I think the idea was also, we don't always have to introduce a new actor to play certain people. Right, because they wouldn't have 50 different

No, sometimes you would see the same people. It was, I love seeing him. And he obviously was a favorite of Mike Shores because he did the good place. He did Brooklyn nine, nine. So,

I mean, he's just one of those funny guy. He's a funny guy. Yeah. Like we were talking about, you know, when again, stick around for the interview with,

uh, with Kevin door for talking to him about it. Um, there's just certain actors are reliable. Yes. This is a reliable, Will is a reliable actor, and the character, you can put him anywhere, and as long as you hook him up with Ben, it's going to be funny,

because Ben's going to just lose all sense of speech and body movement. Yeah. Brilliant. Well, final thoughts on our episode? It's one of my favorites for many reasons. Again, I keep saying they're all one of my favorites. But again, as we spoke earlier, anytime I can hang for most of the week in a room with those people. Because some episodes were all over the place.

And this one's here and this one's here. We were together a lot, which meant just a ton of laughs laughs just a ton of laughs so um i love it for that uh i think you know we always try to come up like with an mvp on this one i mean i'm gonna give it's got it for me and of course every week in some ways should be les. Because she has the A story. She has the A story. So the odds are she's going to be. But you got to give April an MVP this week. Yeah, I know.

I just think you got to give April. Well, we can agree sometimes. It's uncomfortable. And Kevin Dorr, frankly. We don't usually do that for our MVP. It's usually one of our lead cast. But my reason is tied into my final thoughts on the ep and the MVP.

And you should all stick around and listen to our interview with Kevin because you don't often see this style of storyline we talked about with Leslie. You don't often see her not win. You don't see her get so frustrated that it really does take her over in a way that feels not like the Leslie we've come to know.

And it's fun to see Kevin bring that version of her out. I mean, obviously, Kevin and Amy have known each other for a while. Kevin knew Katie Dippel, the writer of the episode. Both improv backgrounds. They poured together what you'll hear about. So they were able to bring this in. So I love him in this episode. And you look at that part and you think, oh, anybody could have played it.

But no, it's sometimes hardest to find people to play the part that feels like you just had to show up and read the lines. Yep. So I agree with you about Aubrey completely. I also love Kevin in this. Should we get to the crap that we didn't get to? Unfortunately, we have to get to your crap. A couple of just great moments that just killed me. Ron, talking head, he's talking

about how to bowl. Straight down the middle, no hook, no spin, no fuss. Anything more, and this becomes figure skating. What a jump. Anything more, and this becomes figure skating. Yeah, well, he has strong thoughts, clearly,

on what sports in the Olympics are worthy of medals and which ones aren't. Yes, and also, it begins in the very beginning of the episode, and it kind of runs through half. Leslie being obsessed that she's a good bowler, and everybody should go to Ron to find out. So I want to say that I remember that joke coming in the writer's room,

where ask Ron. And it's one of those things, just like the calzones with Ben, that you just, once you find a game that's funny, you want to throw it in everywhere. And in this case, it was so funny because it all built to, because you have, sorry, I'll pause. You have that great scene with Ben where she keeps saying it and Ben's like, if only there was someone I could ask about your bowling. He's like, yeah, ask Ron. keep saying it and Ben's like, if only there was someone I could ask about your bowling. He's like, yeah, ask Ron.

But all of it is building to this wonderful little thing where she says it just offhanded to Derek, to Kevin Dorff, and he's like, I don't know who that is. Who's Ron? He don't know. I don't know who that is. In fact, I don't know who you are, lady. Right. I just came here to bowl and get some free beer and wings. It's the only reason I'm here.

Give us more of your crap. Okay. Again, we've already talked about it, but her being called out is aggressively short. It's just so funny. And a typical crazy, punny resident reaction to somebody. Okay,

another thing that killed me. Ron is typing in the names for the bowling monitor. And for Ann, he just types girl. And then they just cut to Rashida, you know, Ann. And it's just, really? Like, he just can't do it. He can't call her Ann.

There's only a few times he does this because he needs her. And then he goes back to girl. Right. But that just brilliant brilliant brilliant um okay and again we talked about april i don't want to i don't want that prize but i'm going to win because i want his happiness to go away i totally get that um and again the again people go back if nothing else to watch Donna say, shut up. When I tell her that Chris is breaking, that Millie's breaking up with Chris,

shut up! And I can't do it. It's her move. I can confirm you can't. But then she goes, shut up! And then they cut to Andy who goes, well, this is going to be so weird when they move in together. So Andy, he's just not getting it.

Anyway, and of course, I have more. But that's some of my crap that we forgot to talk about. I love your crap. Yeah. Your crap's always good. Yep. Sometimes some bad crap in there. So it's not always good.

Sometimes more solid, sometimes looser, but it's all good. I didn't. Okay. Well, on that crappy note, thank you all for listening. Thank you for giving us five-star reviews wherever you're listening. You should text this episode to your group chat. Cool group chat. Let us in on the group chat.

It sounds awesome. Thanks to our amazing producer, Sean, our amazing engineer, Joe. I guess thank you, Jim. Really? No, I don't. I don't. Thank you. You're absolutely right. No, you're right. You're right. Thank you, Jim. Really? No, I don't. I don't. Thank you. You're right.

You're absolutely right. No, you're right. You're right. No, of course. I have an absolute blast doing this. I think people can tell we are sarcastic

with each other, but we're having a very good time. Yes. So stick around soon to talk and hear about our time with Kevin Dorff.

But from now, here in the studio, goodbye from Pawnee. Thanks, you guys. Okay, you guys are really excited because two things. It's not just Zoom, because Zoom is the world these days,

but we have in person sitting right across from me right now, the amazing, the writer, the actor, the comedian, the wonderful, also from Chicago, which makes him one of the greatest people in the whole world, Kevin Dorff. Kevin, how are you? Very good. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Yeah, well, you know, they wrote most of it out. But we're so happy you're here. You did one of my, I really love this episode of Parks and Rec. You get to play, well, a dick. You get to play a dick. The episode is called? Bowling for Votes.

Bowling for Votes. And you are Leslie's main focus. The whole episode is about her getting you. Well, yeah. And, you know, I remember getting called about this the night before it started. Oh, good. Seriously? Yeah. No, no warm up. Just, you should be there tomorrow.

I was like, oh, my cap? Wait, seriously, there was no audition process? No, nothing. And then... Oh, boy, I didn't do my research enough, apparently. How did they, who called you? Well, my representative called me and said, you have to be there. And I was like, well, I'm sure there's, just send me the thing with the two lines. Right, right, right.

Yeah, welcome. Yes, you're the dude. Okay, okay. This is how it works. Had you auditioned for Parks before that they knew? I had. Okay, so they had known what you were going to bring. Because I tell you, that's shocking to get that big of a role with just an offer the night before.

I think more of a tale hangs by this than we know. I really do. About I don't understand because I didn't work on the show. Right, right, right. I'm just an actor. Yeah. There might have been something. A year or two previously,

I had done a work session with Amy. Right, for Parks. For Parks. Right. And I thought I'd gone very well and did not end up working on that particular part. Do you remember what the part was? Are you allowed to talk about that?

A police officer who had taken a shine to Amy. Yes. Ah, yes, yes, yes. We all know who that is. Yes. And it went to someone else. Yes, it did go to someone else. And then out of nowhere.

The part you were born to play came to you. Yeah. I think I was born to play the first one. You would have been great in that part. Yes. Well, I think Dan Gore said it best when he said,

you were good, but the problem with you is you seem like you have a shot with her. Oh, that's interesting. What a kind soul, Dan Gore. What a kind soul. Dan and I worked on Conan

for quite a few years. Yes, yes, yes. Very friendly. I didn't know that they did work sessions for casting some of the parts. Well, for certain roles. Yes, yes, yes. Very friendly. I didn't know that they did work sessions for casting some of the parts. Well, for certain roles. I had no idea.

For certain roles where you want to see if it's not just the talent, but the chemistry and the vibe and just, you know. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. I've been in work sessions for things I've been up for. I get everything I audition for, though. But, okay, and then a long pause. As every cast and director is out there going,

what a liar. What a liar. This is the most uncomfortable topic. I hope I've done it. I put it in there. No, no, it's good to- To make everyone sweat. It's good to break the seal now.

This is a real nightmare when you think you're doing good, you know? I mean, I'm just talking, this is just me here, but like, I felt like, wow, this really went good.

I mean, eyeballs are, I mean, it's, you know, about nine pairs of eyeballs in that room. And you know, it's the brain trust of the show and you get,

you're acting and you feel like you're in a theater and it works. And you actually kind of do have a bit of an audience, but they're reacting to what you're doing. You're like, you can't ask for, I mean, your job, as you know, Jim is like to just audition. That's your actual job. And then sometimes you get to be paid as an actor.

But I felt like that day or that particular time after that work session, I was like that I did my job today. I performed, I was in a show. Me and Amy were in a show today, and I felt great about that. And whatever, you know, came after that, you know, I didn't work on that part. Like, that's disappointment, that, you know, that

unmet expectation. That lives inside you forever, and you have to compensate for it somewhere. And, you know, the funny thing is, is I'm watching, you know, I think it was Monday Night Football. The Bears were playing the Eagles. And I was watching it with Danny Pudi.

And we're in my neighborhood. And I was like, hey, it's halftime. I just got an email. I got to leave. I have to be at work. And Danny's like, you have a great day. Really? Break a leg.

I was like, do you deal with this Bears situation? And I walked out of there and I went back to my apartment and I started looking at what I had to do the next day. And you know, whatever the disappointment,

like I said, like the disappointment, that thing that's, you know, that stays in you and whatever, it's possible to become extremely freaked out

and bitter and all that. But then something, and it doesn't have to be the same show or later that day or, you know in some literary way like pay off

you could end up just doing some thing a day or two later that has nothing to do with it and you suddenly feel very converted

from that place into a good place because you're just back on stage or you're back doing something you want to do

with someone but even though it took like you're saying 18 months or whatever when you get the call for this you want to do with someone. But even though it took, like you're saying, 18 months, whatever, when you get the call for this, you have to, because I've been down this road. It is such a compliment to just be given a call and said, is he available? Right, we want you. We want you. Which means the work you did prior, the work they saw you do in that room did not go to waste.

It was credited. It was credited. It was credited. You were in their brains. Part of the long journey to get to this point, which is that it's hard to see that in the moment. In the moment, you cannot see that. The moment all you see is the rejection, perhaps. But in the long arc of that story, it winds up being a beginning. Those ideas are very similar.

This is a long game here. This is inning two of a 25 inning game. Don't worry about it. That happens too. The competing thoughts are, oh, I'm in the wrong business. I'm going to throw myself off a bridge.

But the other one is, whoa, take it easy. There's way more ball to be played here. Yes. No one wins. It depends on the hour and the day. But in the end, sometimes you get a chance to, like I said, I don't know. I keep saying the word convert.

But what I really mean is you suddenly reconfigure and suddenly you're very directed. You feel really directed and motivated to just go in and just act up a storm and enjoy it. Which I love. So we should jump back a little. People know how you even got here. Theory section is over. Yeah, exactly. No, no, no.

But my most favorite part about you is that you are also a Chicago boy. Oh, yeah. So how did it all start in Chicago for you? Oh, my original neighborhood is South Shore. I lived at 78th and Coles. It's just a block west of the beach or so, Rainbow Beach. And I lived on the southeast side. And I went to grade school there at a Catholic grade school across the street.

And I lived next to a church. And it was very, very- Everything you need right there. Kind of dumb. I don't know why I left. But, you know, my neighborhood was situated between a rail yard and a steel mill. Oh, that's so Chicago. And you're Irish Catholic, I'm guessing.

Yeah, I check every box. Just go ahead and check every box. I do, too. I know, I know. Just go ahead. I'm a complete, I'm a walking cliché. Yes. How did you end up in the showbiz world, though? Go ahead. I'm a complete, I'm a walking cliche. Yes.

How did you end up in the showbiz world, though? It was a pretty typical story when it comes to places like ImprovOlympic, which Amy has such a deep background with, too. You're just walking off the street. Yeah. You walk in the street. You see a show with a friend or a sister or a brother or whatever. And you go, I've never really seen anything like this because they're not just coming out and telling us something. They're coming out and asking us what we want to see. And I'd never, I just, I was 22.

And I was like, well, I've never been asked anything, you know, by someone on stage. I never been asked what's the topic of tonight's show. And that was pretty like, well, that just amazed me. And then it just so happened that the people I was seeing that night were all really good. They don't always have a couple. That's a hit and miss.

But, you know, like the second, like probably the second one I saw after that was probably disastrous. But the first one I saw, the first show I ever saw, had like Chris Farley and Mike Myers. Oh, come on. Tim Meadows and Dave Pesquasey. Come on. Oh, Dave Pesquasey.

All these people. The genius. All these wonderful performers on stage at once. And I was like, well, this looks like fun. Of course it was. So that's like, it's kind of an ImprovOlympic in Chicago thing. By the way, another person in my first class was John Glazer, who will figure into your future episode. Yes, very soon.

Mary must figure into Parks and Rec. I should really point out the fact that I spent a lot of time with John. And we were, you know, we got dressed. We got dressed and undressed in a room one-tenth the size of this one for about a year and a half. Yeah. And he goes to New York. First, he goes to the Dana Carvey show, which doesn't last very long, but he ends up in New York writing for Conan.

And when you see your friends proceed and succeed, you think, well, I think I can do it too. It gives you a bit of confidence. Just let me interject. I know most fans know, but John Glazer is Councilman Jam. Yes. We all know who. We will meet Councilman Jam. Yes. So we all know who, yeah. We will meet Councilman Jam very soon.

And he'll stick around for a long time. Yes. Yes. For a long time, he sticks around. So you. I didn't mean to. No, but it was because of, you know, John's success. And, you know, and I knew Brian McCann and Brian Stack, too, who also worked on that staff.

Brian McCann. I was able to submit to Conan and started working there in September 2000. You were telling us this great story about the writer of the episode of Blown for Votes with Katie Dippold. Oh my God, right. After we got, like I said,

dressed and undressed with each other in this tiny room, we got a tiny office at Conan too, so I ended up being John's office mate. Did you get dressed and undressed in that tiny office? Often, often. And we didn't have to. No, that's not.

Because we were doing it. Believe me, I know that. It's just you're there. But you're there for so long. You were there. I get it. 12 hours, days and stuff. And eventually.

You want an outfit change. Things are going to, clothes are going to come off. Yeah, that's human nature. And we had this couch. It was a messy office, but the couch was kind of clear. It didn't have anything on it. And I know Katie Dippel

used to camp out on that couch when she was interning for the casting department, which was across the hall. They didn't, they had a really small office and no couch. Okay.

So in order to go through her paperwork and her pet shots and all that sort of stuff and look at the forms that paperwork and her headshots and all that sort of stuff and look at the forms that, you know, the actors had filled out and all that sort of thing, she would sort of sort of work out on our couch, which was fine by us. But it was really, it was just a lot of fun to have Katie there. And, you know, she's great to talk to.

And she obviously was really interested in comedy. She was doing improv at Rutgers and, you know, a bunch of ideas about what she wanted to do in New York and what she was going to do with her group. And we talked all the time, just, you know, shop, talk, and, you know, improv.

And it was great. And it was just wonderful to see her just take off and then go to California and work on that and go beyond that. And it was just pretty great. Like, it just,

I don't, you know, I don't take any credit for anything that happened no no it's just it's just it's just Parks and then

she's a feature writer she's all the same good things that were sort of happening in the community that you and I

are familiar with were also happening in this other new community that I was in and the collegial attitude and the

you know people ask questions you do the, you know, if people ask questions, you do the best you can to answer them, try to impart something you think is useful to them. Probably maybe a 10th of it will be, but if it works at all, you feel great. You can feel like this is awesome. I'm happy for that person. Yeah. And on top of it, Katie is so sweet.

Yes. You know, this business you hear, oh, you hear, behind the scenes, this and this. We've been behind the scenes with Katie. She is lovely and funny and sweet. To get you right back to what we were talking about earlier, I show up the next day. I never did see the end of that Bears-Eagles game. Right.

I show up the next day, and the first person I see is Katie. I'm like, hey, this is great. What is going on? What is happening? What am I supposed to do? Like you said, it's not two lines. No.

This is the role. This is the role of the episode. Yeah, I had stuff to do. You had stuff to do. And she was, and now here it is, like, you know, the young lady that sat on the couch is now about to give me some notes. She's like, here, that sat on the couch is now about to give me some notes. She's like, here, comes down on my couch.

And it's about 10 years or so now or whatever, whatever it was, maybe eight or nine years or something. I'm like, all right, what am I doing here? And she said, this is really just you just being you.

In other words, she's just like, you don't have to sound like anybody. You don't have to remind us of anyone. Like, we're not talking about any particular person. We're just talking about you. So you go make it.

One of the big questions, the big things I think a lot of people think about comedy in general is that TV comedy is improvised. I had this naivete when I was younger. I thought, oh, so the people are funny people and they come to set that day and they figure out what they're going to make and say. But that idea I think remains, especially we get that question about Parks and Rec because of the deep comedy bench and

deep improv comedy bench that was the cast. So my question for you is you're shooting this episode. It's you and Amy. It's two incredible improvisers. What was that like? And do you remember, did magic happen? Did new stuff come?

What happened? Well, the script was of such a great quality. The other thing, there's more than two things, but one of the other things about the Chicago thing, this is a Harold Ramis line, but I loved it. I heard him say it once at a talk he was giving

during the second day of his 40th anniversary. He said, I love Chicago actors because they don't do anything more than what they're supposed to. And that was a kind of a,

I mean, there's layers that Harold says, but what he meant is if they're supposed to, you know, say, hey, stop, show me some ID or whatever when you're on the club, they're not going to make a big deal.

Yeah, yeah. Because they probably were a bouncer before they had this job. So they know how to do that. Hey, you, kid, show me some ID. And then you're off and ready. The action goes somewhere else. Chicago actors work. They work at other jobs that aren't acting.

They never, they don't overdo it. So that's a thing that was in my mind because there's tons to do, but on the other hand, it was already there. So for the direct answer to your question, I felt like we were pretty comfortable and pretty happy with what we had. And for us, I think the fun of it was finding, you know,

what kind of feel, you know, what kind of feeling could we get going? Two people who, by definition, do not know each other. It's tough circumstances for acting. It's very, I mean, in my opinion, it's difficult. It's a different proposition when people don't know each other because now they don't have anything to trade. But on the other hand, if you have no idea who you're talking to and the only thing you know is you don't like them, you have that to trade, but you have to keep it in reserve. You have to figure out other ways to talk because that is sort of animating your interaction, right?

Dude, you're the real deal. I don't know that I always put that much thought into it. No, I'm blown away. How are things going back in the house of the pledge drive? Yeah, exactly. But here's what I, you know, I... But that's what I was feeling. Yeah, no, that's all.

We have to hold on. I'm blown away by that. We have to hold on to this fact that I really intensely don't like you for no good reason. And that, I will say, comes through when rewatching this. You know, the plot is not much in that. It's just like two people with an energy who are dancing around each other. One really wants you to like her. And then you're like, I don't really.

I'm just myself. I really don't have an interest in you. But the energy between the two characters is palpable. Okay. How would you describe it? I mean, palpable, but what about,

what reached out and did anything particularly grab you? Well, no. What grabbed me is that there's this person, Leslie, who we've come to know and love, who will generally try to do anything to not just win in a bad way, but to do good, to make things right, to have things work out. And she's blowing it. Right.

She's really blowing it. And that's why the second act break that happens in which it doesn't work out for her, which we don't often see things just not work. She rarely can't figure out the solution. And then Ben comes in and punches you. It's like, that's the only solution here is just this schoolyard tumble. It was really fun because we don't normally get to see that side of Leslie. And that character brought that out. I think the really critical thing in that episode is what he says to her, or what Ben, was when they talk.

He's saying, you can't be this way. I mean, it's very much sort of a voice of reason thing, but I think that's, in a way, that's your... Ben may at that point be suddenly wearing the little straw hat of the head audience member saying, that isn't how it works.

People won't like you and they won't have any reason. And by the way, that guy is free to do that. He's not a jerk. And certainly I don't think I'm a jerk. In fact, I think the opposite. I think I'm awesome. But me not liking her isn't something I feel embarrassed or ashamed of. It's my right to not like her for no reason.

And Ben even says, people vote by their gut. So you're just allowed not to like somebody. And he's not trying to tell us something we don't know. He's trying to tell her something she's not successfully remembering right now if she ever knew it. And what was the last time you had seen Amy when you showed up on set?

Oh, we always saw her. We always saw her at the theater and stuff. Okay, so that wasn't a surprise to see Amy there. And then, as Greg mentioned, people all the time think the show's improvised. But we always say, I've heard, you know, I almost said Leslie, Amy say it a million times in interviews. We've all said it. The scripts are so strong that it's hard to do better than what they did.

But we would always generally do fun runs. And so did you guys do the fun runs? Every one. After every scene, we did more than one. Oh, I love it. What was that? Well, we just sort of kept going. And we just sort of kept interacting.

And we just came from, I mean, I couldn't tell you. I'd love to see those outtakes. Because you and Amy together, it would have to be magic. Don't you guys work on this show? Well, the other thing, but the fun runs, we've talked about this and we should remind some people listening who haven't heard us talk about it. But the fun run is you've shot everything you need to shoot and then you're going to do it one last time generally. And the basic rule is get the plot you need out. try to make this a scene we maybe can use, but have fun with it and go off on tangents and see what naturally comes out with the energies of these actors.

Our fun runs were incredible. I always tried to come down from the writer's room to watch them as often as possible. I giggled so much, but they also go on for like 20, 30 minutes sometimes. They're ridiculous, yes. If you can wait, you know,

get there at, you know, whatever, seven in the morning and wait two hours to even go to the set and then wait two more hours, you can do a fun run. You know what I mean?

Like time at that point. But here's where I will jump in as a member of that, as a gift, just the gift of being a member of that cast. The fun runs, I think,

are what keep you close as a cast because we played every day. That's play. It's doing good things. We know the premise. Everyone knows what has to get out. We've just shot it. You know,

everyone's happy, writer, director, everyone's happy. Now, let's just have fun. And I don't know. Yeah. And I have been on many shows since and they will use the term fun run

and say because they heard that Parks had done that. And I don't know that we create, I'm sure we didn't create fun runs, but I don't know, maybe we talk about it more than others. I don't know. But I love when they say, okay, fun run. It's kind of like you're a dog being let off the leash, right?

Which is like, I have all this other energy that you're keeping from me, right? Because you're holding me and like, let me go. And let's say there's three or four or nine people in the scene or whatever. So some people might interpret that as, oh, let's beat this line or whatever. Let's beat that joke. Not really. Not for me anyway. I don't want, I'm not interested in beating the script.

I want to maybe, if we're doing that and having a fun run, I'm like want I'm not interested in beating the script I want to maybe if we're doing that and having a fun run I'm like I want to stay with that but I'll see if I can find anything I didn't see that's what

it's about finding I never once thought oh I can do better than this script oh dear god I think if you set out to do that and you never could Jim

I don't believe you I won't even we batted a thousand yeah that is one thing I've said this 1,000 times. You'll hear it 1,000 times more. I would leave every table read.

And it was normally Rhett and I would head, because our trailers were together. Anyway, double banger thing. I'm on one side, she's on the other. So we'd head back together. And every week after week, I'd go, they did it again. They did it again. Yeah. Like, these people did it again.

They've imprisoned me in fantastic jokes. Exactly. They have written another unbelievable script. And so, yeah, I never thought I'm out doing what they've given me. I just think it's great to have people who have trained in that world and we play off of each other and we laugh together. It creates such camaraderie and i think it brought i don't know i could go on about this all day i think the fun run is a very wonderful thing and i think it keeps people tight as a cast and you you were there a lot more than i was and it probably added a lot of time to your time there and maybe got you home a little later than you wanted to some nights me

and glazer would get out of that office at con at 11.30 or whatever, 12.30 sometimes. And yeah, maybe no one's really out and maybe nothing's really happening. And all you have to do is go to bed and try to key down in the next two or three hours. So you can come back tomorrow. But that satisfaction and that celebration that you're feeling, in my case, I'm riding the R train back to my apartment from Midtown. It's just the best. But people are like, oh, I'm just going to head home.

Head home. The energy. Yeah. You are flying high. Yes, it's going on 10, 30, 11 o'clock. But I can't wrap this up now. No. Yeah.

Okay. We could go on forever, but we also have to get in the amazing other things you've done. We're halfway through the process. I'm already worried because they're going to be yelling at us. Here's the thing. You have been in some iconic shows. Number one, you did Park, so there we go.

The most iconic. I stopped there, but you didn't. Yeah, you didn't. We could say that Park's the greatest show that's ever existed. Okay, go on. We could say that Parks is the greatest show that's ever existed. Okay, go on. We could say that. But then, Parks-centric, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, created by Dan Gore and Mike Schur, who, Parks and Rec.

You did Superior Donuts, which we have a lot in common. I've done a Superior Donuts. You did a Veep. I've done a Veep. Brooklyn Nine-Nine, I did too. I don't know why Jim had to create this. I know. This really is just about to brag about myself. No, but we have been a lot.

Is there anything else in here? Resume, we have it. Arrested Development, 30 Rock, The Office, Delocated. I feel like I could go about my credits a lot because I'm fine with it. It's because of the friends. And this is just like, hey, he's my friend. He can be on the show. It's more like they really understand me

because another thing about that improv scene that we all came, that we came out of, that you and I both sort of came out of and know is that you've kind of bailed each other out a lot and we've been in tight places on stage and people know that you're a generous performer and they think of you that way. And whether they're right or wrong is another thing but like it they want to bring you to what they're

doing because they'd be excited to have you involved and i feel like i'd get invited sometimes sometimes i got a scrap for it and sometimes i just get called but you know i feel like i get invited to certain kinds of things like that because they were like you know who'd be fun to do yes this guy's a real jagoff. Let's get Dorf in here. Yeah. He'll kill it. Yeah.

I love that, because I love that, you know, every once in a while I get those calls, too. It's a huge compliment. It's a huge compliment, yeah. But you've also done, and this is going to, your whole life now will be this, you've done a Mandalorian. I was pleased to do it, and I was thrilled to work with Jon Favrereau who was in my first ever improv wow boy of course and uh we've known each other an awful long time and i was there's funny stuff about just doing that episode but the best was being home months later and getting a text from someone i

hadn't heard from in a while a chicago person. Yeah. Hey, it's 1230. What's going on? It's like 230 in Chicago in the morning. What's this about? Yeah, what? You're the first Imperial officer in the history of the Star Wars canon with a Chicago accent. Oh. That's great.

That's great. That was pretty sassy. All right. That was pretty sassy. I want to say before, unfortunately, we're going to have to say goodbye forever. Forever.

This is our last day. I rarely do get, I have to tell you, there's a moment from an ASCAP show that was on TV, the special done with Tina and Amy and you and Andy Richter and Horatio Stanzo and Rachel Drash and all the great people. And someone at Parks once said that trying to describe an improv show to people is like describing a fever dream.

Because you kind of have to be there. It's hard to set up this joke. But I have to tell you that there's a line from you in this Ask Kat special that is perhaps one of the hardest I've ever laughed in my life. Wow, I'm dying to hear this. I'm going to send re-watching it last night before, and I'm still laughing. And I'm going to say it, and it won't be the same thing. So everyone, when we get to the end of this episode.

Go and watch it. Don't pause now. Go watch it. But the setup is a talent show, and there are various magicians doing these bits and you have a joke where you come on and Rachel Dratch is playing this young girl

singing and you're El Magnifico and you're going to make Jessica disappear and then you snap her neck. I didn't see it coming and the fact that your brain went there and for me as a comedy writer, it's always amazing to see, oh, that's how that person's brain works. And they're able to think of that joke.

And I wish I could come up with a joke like that. And that's why I love writing on TV, especially because you get a bunch of different brains together and say, what alchemy do we get? And anyway, you rarely get to meet your heroes, but I've laughed so hard at your comedy. And so I decided to say that. That's lovely. Thank you. I feel like, I know this is after the blow, but I just want to say about Katie's writing in this episode,

and I know more than one person worked on it, I'm sure. But I love to think that in 2010, late 2010, early 2011, I think it aired in 2011, right? That the room that you guys worked in was so far ahead of what other people knew about what was out there. That there was people who were discontent and dedicated to dislike and dedicated to disunity and dedicated to being suspicious and content and suspicious of strangers and holding each other in contempt, you know, no matter what. And, uh, I thought that was just a really, I mean, I was aware of it myself and I tried to portray it in a couple of shows that I did, like we did this show with Andy Daly called review where we tried to get into that mindset ourselves and try to understand that there's some

people that will literally never want to participate in a community. And when I saw the script and I saw what Katie came up with, I identified with it right away. I've always identified with your show because my mother was a public aid

worker in the south side of Chicago and she did it for years and loved it and my father received benefits from, you know, disabled, he's a disabled veteran

and, you know, and my family worked, let's just say worked with and for the government all the time.

I've waited in offices to get checks, to get food, to get other things. It's the sort of thing I'm used to. It's the sort of thing that happened in my neighborhood all the time. Parks and Rec, I thought, showed hopefully everybody that that's a working society.

A working society creates a way of helping everybody if they can't. Not everybody's capable of being helped, and some people don't want to participate at all but as long as the impulse is there it can be acted on and I just thought that that was the best thing about the whole episode that even though everyone was being petty in your story there was some pettiness and in my story

there was the part that I was in involved some pettiness and stuff and then even I thought Fran being so ridiculously pissed off. Ridiculously pissed off about bowling was a good example of his own thing, his own sort of former pettiness.

But really, what overcomes all that is just showing up the next day and going right back at it again. These aren't all do-getters. Not everybody's a do-getter, but they end up doing good. I love that about that show, and that's why I watch it

in reruns all the time. I love that, too. I love that, too. Well, that's a perfect way to end this. How do you top that? Kevin, thank you. Kevin, this has been a treat. True treat.

Wow. You've been around. You know everybody, and they all know you, and wow. I seriously could sit know everybody and they all know you and and wow I seriously could sit here for days I know

because we also have a million of the same people we know so I have the feeling if we started down that road but Kevin said he only wanted to do an hour with you and that was

well actually he's yeah at this point I think security will be here any minute yeah for me which is odd which is weird which is odd

because I am the one certainly co-hosting this. Yeah, but that is what it is. But thank you so much. Thank you. I brought so much to the episode.

Thanks. I can't even. Again, I didn't know any of this. I didn't know you just got a call. I didn't know you just showed up.

So for a guy who just showed up, my God, you brought it. Yes, I loved it. I loved it. I love doing it. And it was a pleasure. And I'll probably watch it. I probably re-watch it after today just because it's making me remember certain things.

Things I loved about it at the time. And what I always recommend when you re-watch an episode, just watch my stuff. Yeah. I find it to be the most interesting. I don't know why. It feels like Leslie got a lot of the lines. I don't know what that was all about I typically watch you

anyway yeah sometimes I like to learn by not an example you son of a bitch cause you're a legit actor you're a legit actor

wait O'Hare did this okay so what is the total opposite of that okay that's how I would play this role he's so locked in

he's like straight jacket no freedom it's too legit get him out I no freedom. It's too legit. Get him out. I want him out. He's too legit to quit. create Jim.

Exactly. Kevin, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This has been a Team Coco production.