Pints With Aquinas - 34: Was the star which lead the magi a real star?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to Pints with Aquinas, episode 34. I'm Matt Fradd. If you could sit down with St. Thomas Aquinas over a pint of beer and ask him any one question, what would it be? Today we'll ask St. Thomas, is that star that appeared to the Magi and led them to Bethlehem, was that a real star or something else? Thanks for being with us again here at Pints with Aquinas. This is the show, as you know, where you and I pull up a barstool next to the angelic doctor and discuss theology and philosophy. So pour yourself a frothy pint and let's get underway. But before we do, I wanted to let you know that I'm going to be running a contest this week. I've done this a couple of times in the past, and I'll do it this week as well. If you would rate Pints with Aquinas on

Starting point is 00:01:08 iTunes, leave me a review this week, you'll go into the running to win a copy of my new book, Pints with Aquinas, 50 plus deep thoughts from the angelic doctor. So if you've reviewed this podcast before, thank you, thank you, thank you, but you will not be in the running this week. Only those who review this week will be in the running. And next week, I'll put up something on pintswithaquinas.com where I'll list the winners. Okay, so be sure to check that out. I would really appreciate it. We get thousands of downloads. Every time I put up a new episode within a week, it's like two or 3000 people have downloaded that episode. So I know we have a ton of people

Starting point is 00:01:50 listening. But it'd be nice to get some some more reviews. And when you think about it, this is cool, because if you review, I'll send you this book. And Christmas is around the corner, right? So you'll it'll arrive at the front door from Amazon and you'll feel all fluffy inside. And then you'll remember, oh, I forgot to get a gift for my atheist sister. And then you'll be like, oh, bingo, I'll give her this. And she'll get really upset and offended and you'll have an awkward fight. And that's what Christmas is all about when you think about it. Oh, and another cool thing I got to tell you about.

Starting point is 00:02:26 Many of you have written to me and said that you love the music that begins this show and ends this show. And as you know, if you're a regular listener, that's my sister, Emma Fradd, who is brilliantly talented and an all-round awesome human being. Well, her and a good friend have created this duo called Heaps Good Friends, and they've just come out with a brand new song called Cry Like a Psycho. It is so very good, and I think you'll agree. So what I'll do is at the end of this podcast, I will play it for you here. And I just ask if you'd like to support Emma, if you'd like to show her some love, I'll put a link to her in the description of this podcast. So you can follow her on Twitter.

Starting point is 00:03:17 You can go to her SoundCloud page, listen to her songs, and just tell her you appreciate it. That'd be great. Okay. Today, we're going to be discussing, as I said, whether the star which appeared to the Magi belonged to the heavenly system. Have you ever wondered that? Was that star an actual star or was it something else? Well, Aquinas addresses this in the third part of the Summa Theologiae, question 36, article 7. Before we

Starting point is 00:03:48 get to that, it might be helpful if we read from the second chapter of Matthew where this is addressed. Starting at verse 1, now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east and have come to worship him. When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born. They told him, In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet. And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah, for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel. Then Herod summoned the wise men secretly and ascertained from them what time the star appeared. And he sent them to

Starting point is 00:05:08 Bethlehem, saying, Go and search diligently for the child, and when you have found him, bring me word that I too may come and worship him. When they had heard the king, they went their way, and lo, the star which they had seen in the east went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy, and going into the house, they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshipped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh, and being warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they departed to their own country by another way. Okay, so that's some of what we read about this mysterious star. By the way, it's interesting to note, isn't it, that the reason we think that there were three wise men isn't because it says

Starting point is 00:06:17 in sacred scripture that there were three wise men. It doesn't tell us how many wise men that there were. We just sort of put three wise men in there because there were three gifts, but who knows how many there were. Maybe there were five or ten or I don't know. But okay, let's get on to this topic. As I say, this is from the Summa Theologiae, third part, question 36, article 7. Let's read Aquinas' main response, okay? And then we'll go through his three objections and see how he responds. So let me just tell you what Aquinas is going to say. He says that it is not an actual star in the sky. You know what I'm saying? It's not like part of the heavenly bodies. Rather, it's a supernatural sign given by God to lead the Magi

Starting point is 00:07:18 to Christ. So, he's going to say this, as Chrysostom says, by the way, who's Chrysostom? Some people pronounce his name Chrysostom, Chrysostom. John Chrysostom was a church father, brilliant and saintly man. And Aquinas is referencing his sixth homily on the Gospel of Matthew. Okay. I will put a link in the description of this podcast so you can read that homily yourself. It's beautiful. As Chrysostom says, it is clear for many reasons that the star which appeared to the Magi did not belong to the heavenly system. First. the Magi did not belong to the heavenly system. First, because no other star approaches from the

Starting point is 00:08:09 same quarter as this star, whose course was from north to south, these being the relative positions of Persia whence the Magi came and Judea. Secondly, from the time at which it was seen, Secondly, from the time at which it was seen. For it appeared not only at night, but also at midday. And no star can do this, not even the moon. Thirdly, because it was visible at one time and hidden at another. For when they entered Jerusalem, it hid itself. Then, when they had left Herod, it showed itself again. Fourthly, because its movement was not continuous. But when the Magi had to continue their journey,

Starting point is 00:08:55 the star moved on. When they had to stop, the star stood still, as happened to the pillar of a cloud in the desert. Side note, Aquinas is referencing the pillar of cloud and pillar of fire which guided the Israelites through the desert towards the promised land. So just as the pillar guided the Israelites, so this star is guiding the Magi. And both, Aquinas says, along with Chrysostom, were supernatural. Okay, where were we? Okay, fifth, fifth, fifth, fifth, fifthly.

Starting point is 00:09:43 That is a weird word. All right, sixthly, fifthly. But is a weird word. All right. Sixthly, fifthly. But that's not why you listen to this podcast. So let's continue. Fifthly, because it indicated the virginal birth, not by remaining aloft, but by coming down below. For it is written in Matthew 2.9 that the star which they had seen in the east went before them until it came and stood over where the child was. be taken as meaning not that when they were in the east the star appeared over the country of Judea, but that when they saw the star it was in the east and that it preceded them into Judea, although this is considered doubtful by some. But it could not have indicated the house distinctly unless it were near the earth. And, as Chrysostom observes, this does not seem

Starting point is 00:10:48 fitting to a star, but of some power endowed with reason. Consequently, it seems that this was some invisible force made visible under the form of a star. That's a really interesting point, don't you think? I'm not sure if that's ever occurred to you. You know, back in the I guess when I thought about the nativity scene, I just thought about these magi, they saw this star, maybe it was brighter than the rest, and so they started following it. not like, okay, I think we're in the area. Oh, it's directly above that house. No, I mean, you wouldn't be able to do that. It would have to be close to the earth. It would have to rest over the house and be very clear in order for you to know which house you were being led to. So, okay, if it's not a star, so did he appear to the magi, under the form of a star. While others say that the angel, who under a human form, appeared to the shepherds, under the form of a star, appeared to the magi. But, says Aquinas,

Starting point is 00:12:19 it seems more probable that it was a newly created star, not in the heavens, but in the air near the earth, and that its movement varied according to God's will. appeared to the three magi in the east, which, through being more brilliant and more beautiful than the other stars, drew men's gaze and attention, so that they understood at once that such an unwanted event could not be devoid of purpose. All right, let's have a look at some of these objections. By the way, I was thinking about this the other day as I was recording these podcasts. Just as like having an app like Audible in which you can listen to books on tape with, you know, those things are really cool because you can listen to something, you know, some highfalutin book like Dostoevsky or whatever as you're traveling, you know. And thisfalutin book like Dostoevsky or whatever,

Starting point is 00:13:25 as you're traveling, you know. And this is kind of cool. Like, if you've been listening to Pints with Aquinas from the beginning, you know, that's 30-something episodes in which we discuss Aquinas directly. That's kind of a really cool way to learn, huh? I don't know why this is just coming to mind now. I probably should have known that when I began, but anyway, thanks for listening. Here's the objections. Objection, he has three of them. Objection one, it would seem that the star which appeared to the Magi belonged to the heavenly system. For Augustine says in a sermon on the Epiphany, while God yet clings to the breast and suffers himself to be wrapped in humble swaddling clothes, suddenly a new star shines forth in the heavens. Therefore,

Starting point is 00:14:13 the star which appeared to the Magi belonged to the heavenly system. Aquinas says, in Holy Scripture, the air is sometimes called the heavens. For instance, the birds of the heavens and the fishes of the sea. Now, in the Douay-Rheims, for heavens, we read air, the birds of the air. So, heavens and air in that sense can be interchangeable. The second objection is this. interchangeable. The second objection is this. Further, Augustine says in a sermon on the Epiphany, Christ was made known to the shepherds by angels, to the magi by a star. A heavenly tongue speaks to both because the tongue of the prophets spoke no longer, but the angels who appeared to the shepherds were really angels from heaven. Therefore also the star which appeared to the magi was really a star from the heavens. Aquinas responds, the angels of heaven by reason of their very office come down to us being sent to minister. But the stars of heaven do not change their position. Wherefore, there is no comparison. There's Aquinas dropping the mic

Starting point is 00:15:30 right there. Like, really, there's no comparison. Sip of the beer. And the third and final objection is, further, stars which are not in the heavens but in the air are called comets, which do not And Aquinas responds, For we have seen his star in the east, therefore it seems that it was a star from the heavens. And Aquinas responds, As the star did not follow the course of the heavenly stars, so neither did it follow the course of the comets, which neither appear during the daytime nor vary their customary course. Nevertheless, in its signification, it has something in common with comets, because the heavenly kingdom of Christ shall break in pieces and shall consume all the

Starting point is 00:16:33 kingdoms of the earth, and itself shall stand forever. So there you go. You can now bring up something kind of interesting at your Christmas dinner. So I hope y'all are having a good start of December here. And thanks for joining in and listening to today's episode. As I said in the beginning of this podcast, I will select five people randomly next week to win a copy of my new book, Pints with Aquinas, and I will post that directly to you so you'll have it before Christmas. And, you know, if Pints with Aquinas, this podcast, if it's blessed you, I want to invite you to consider just buying the book from Amazon because that would support me in this podcast, and it'll also help you begin to read Aquinas without feeling massively overwhelmed, feeling anxious and then eating 15 Kit Kats

Starting point is 00:17:25 and nobody wants that Okay, I told you you would be listening to my sister's brand new song, Cry Like a Psycho Are you ready? Just turn up the volume, get ready I'm going to shut up, you're going to hear her, it's going to be fantastic, remember what I said, follow her on Twitter

Starting point is 00:17:41 send her a tweet, tell her you love her whatever you want to do Okay bye Cry like a crime Crime Cry like a crime Oh You picked me up Like a lion with a cup

Starting point is 00:17:58 You picked me up And I went Every place was like a library Why the silence when you see me? You picked me up Like a lion with a cup Love triangle made diamond odd Like stealing from the shopkeeper

Starting point is 00:18:31 My mum takes off her make-up with Baby wipes cause it's cheaper Psycho, cry, get out, get out, gotta get out My getting gifts for being sick's ridiculous Cried like a Or asked my friends out This party's stupid Why are the boys all muted?

Starting point is 00:18:56 I cleaned your toilet Just cause it needed it Cried like a Psycho Cried like a Psycho Cried like a psycho, cry like a psycho You picked me up like a lion with a cup You picked me up and I ripped Every place was like a library

Starting point is 00:19:28 Why the silence when you see me? You picked me up like a lion with a cup You picked me up and I ripped off Every face was like a library Why the silence when you see me? Things that don't matter don't make a noise You'll get your chance when they lose their voice I have everything I've wanted

Starting point is 00:19:59 To share with you on this floppy disk Psycho crime Get out, get out, gotta get out My getting gifts for being sick's ridiculous Cry like a Or ask my friends at this party stupid Why are the boys all muted? Cry like a crime, crime

Starting point is 00:20:23 Cry like a crime, crime Cry like a crime, crime Cry like a psycho Cry like a psycho Cry like a psycho Cry like a psycho You picked me up like a lion in a cub You picked me up and I went too Every face was like a library Why the silence when you see me? You picked me up like a lion with a cup You picked me up and I went home

Starting point is 00:21:16 Every face was like a library Why the silence when you see me? Empty handed, empty pockets You're asking for Something and living like you don't want it Jumping up and down on the runway You're asking for it Like a psycho cries on a school night Outro Music

Pints With Aquinas - 34: Was the star which lead the magi a real star?

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