Planetary Radio: Space Exploration, Astronomy and Science - The Space Race: Honoring the first African-American space explorers

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

This week on Planetary Radio, we take a peek behind the scenes at National Geographic's new documentary, “The Space Race,” which celebrates the triumphs and struggles of the first African-American space pioneers and astronauts. Co-directors Diego Hurtado de Mendoza and Lisa Cortés, space pioneer Ed Dwight, and astronaut Leland Melvin join us to discuss the film. But first, Casey Dreier, The Planetary Society's chief of space policy, and Jack Kiraly, our director of government relations, give an update on the U.S. budget gridlock that caused the recent layoff of hundreds of people at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Twitch streamer Moohoodles joins the show later to talk about her upcoming stream with Planetary Radio, and we close out with What's Up with Bruce Betts and a new random space fact. Discover more at: https://www.planetary.org/planetary-radio/2024-space-raceSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We're meeting the team behind National Geographic's new documentary, The Space Race, this week on Planetary Radio. I'm Sarah Al-Ahmad of the Planetary Society, with more of the human adventure across our solar system and beyond. Space is for everyone. But for much of our short time as a spacefaring species, that has not been the case. Today, we'll get a peek behind the scenes at National Geographic's new documentary called The Space Race. It celebrates the triumphs and struggles of the first African-American space pioneers and astronauts and the long road it took to get to where we are today. We'll be joined by the co-directors, Diego Hurtado de Mendoza and Lisa Cortez, space pioneer Ed Dwight, and astronaut Leland Melvin.

But first, Casey Dreyer, the Planetary Society's Chief of Space Policy, and Jack Kearley, our Director of Government Relations, will give us an update on the budget gridlock that's caused the recent layoffs of hundreds of people at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. This could impact other NASA facilities and space agencies around the world. And on Friday, February 23rd, Planetary Radio is teaming up for a stream with our friend Moo Hoodles on Twitch. She'll pop in to share a little bit about the growing group of science communicators on live streaming platforms and let you know how you can watch our stream together. We'll close out our show with what's up with Bruce Betts and a new random space fact. In honor of Leland Melvin's passion for rescue animals, Bruce and I will

share a little bit about our rescue pets. And happy Lunar New Year to everyone around the world that celebrates it. If you love planetary radio and want to stay informed about the latest space discoveries, make sure you hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcasting platform. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode filled with new and awe-inspiring ways to know the cosmos and our place within it. Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, just a little ways away from our headquarters, announced that they had to make a heart-wrenching decision. A massive round of layoffs. Casey Dreyer, the Planetary Society's Chief of Space Policy, and Jack Kierle, our Director of Government Relations, are here to explain. Hi, Jack and Casey. I wish I had you both here for happier reasons, but we all found out a few days ago on February 6, that NASA Jet Propulsion Lab, which is right by our headquarters in Pasadena, California, laid off over 500 people. That's 8% of their workforce. And this comes just a month

after they laid off 100 contractors. So Casey, how did we get here? contractors. So Casey, how did we get here? Yeah, this is at the end of the day due to an unresolved dispute between the two chambers of Congress in the United States over the future of the Mars sample return mission. So last year, the Senate released a draft NASA budget for 2024, the year we're in now, that would slash over half a billion dollars from Mars sample return down to 300 million, saying that NASA had lost control of the project, that they need to reformulate it to cost a lot less. And if they couldn't do that, they don't even get the 300 million. They're canceled. The House, which did not respond publicly until later to this budget with their own budget, went complete opposite track and provided $949 million, right? The exact request. So you have a disparity of over $600 million between

these two potential pathways from our sample return in 2024. And the problem is, is that no other action has been taken in terms of congress resolving this dispute or even passing any kind of budget for any agency in the fiscal year we're currently in and what that means is that nasa and the office of management and budget which controls this the white house's accounting arm they look at the variety of potential outcomes and they see that there's a really low potential budget from the senate they don't know which one is going to pass into law and so what they've done is throttle back spending to meet the lowest potential possible budget so they've basically

throttled funding to jpl which is the prime agency that's doing Mars sample return to meet the lowest potential outcome. And they've been throttling it down and other contractors and other NASA centers, notably Goddard. So this is a completely self-imposed situation due to the fact that Congress cannot resolve this uncertainty of its budget for Mars sample return this year. this uncertainty of its budget for Mars sample return this year. Jack, is there any end in sight to this? Should we expect that they're going to pass the budget at some point? Well, the coming fiscal deadlines, and I said deadlines because Congress has instituted a stepped continuing resolution. Part of the government is set to shut down if they don't pass a budget by March 1st. And the another part of the government, which includes NASA,

is set to shut down if they don't reach a budget deal by March 8th. Now, we've gotten to this point because it's been now three continuing resolutions kicking the can down the road on this debate. But there is an end in sight. House Speaker Mike Johnson, Republican, and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, a Democrat, have come together and agreed on a top line spending number that aligns closely to the Fiscal Responsibility Act levels that were set in June of last year. If you've tuned into the budget process before, you know that the next step are what we call our lovely 302Bs. Those are not yet public.

But what we're hearing in D.C. is that there is an agreement in process on those appropriations, which will then trickle down to the individual agencies and the committees, the appropriations committees in the House and the Senate will be able to work on a compromise for what to fund NASA at. It is unclear right now whether the Senate proposal from last year, the House proposal are on the table, or if they're starting from square one when it comes to NASA and Mars sample return. As we know, the independent review board that released their report last year, which unabashedly endorsed the science of MSR, but identified some key

problems in the management and application of the program. NASA is in the process of reformulating MSR, all while this debate is happening over the federal budget. So it's really anyone's game right now as to whether MSR is going to be funded maybe at that low $300 million or at that high watermark with $949, which is where you, the listener, come in. I've been really impressed since this news came out. The speed with which you both got on this, began writing articles, and then put a form up on our Action Center to allow people to make their voices heard on this subject was instantaneous. And the response has been really heartening for me. Jack, you've been

giving us some little updates on this in our member community. How many people have actually written to their representatives through our forum in the last couple of days? So over 4,000 messages. And Sarah, your face says it all like this is an amazing response. 4,000 messages have been sent to members of Congress representing all 50 states and over half, almost two thirds of the House of Representatives, which has 435 members, 432 with some vacancies, but 435 seats. That is a phenomenal turnout. And you're right.

This is breaking news. And we responded very quickly to this emerging situation and our members and supporters delivered. And so please, if you have not sent your letter yet, now is the time. We are asking Congress when they pass a budget. And it's urgent that they pass a budget because like Casey said, this isn't just affecting the Jet Propulsion Lab in California. This is affecting NASA centers and partners and our international partners all over the globe. This uncertainty is unsustainable for our nation's space program.

And so we need you to send a letter. If you're in the US, if you're a resident of the United States, send a letter to your representatives in Washington. It is absolutely urgent that you do so. send a letter to your representatives in Washington. It is absolutely urgent that you do so. And we are asking them to pass a budget that supports a robust and balanced science program across the entire portfolio, not just sample return, not just any individual mission, but let's have a rising tide that lifts all boats, all spacecraft to help us continue the amazing progress we've made in exploring the universe.

That's a great point, because while outwardly, this looks like a moment that's just affecting JPL, this is going to have knock-on effects, not just for other NASA facilities, but for all of our international partners that take a part in missions like Mars Sample Return and all of the rest. It's a beautiful time in space because we're all so interconnected, but that also means that this is going to impact people and space exploration all around our planet. Yeah, absolutely. It really does. And I think there's something, you know, just to emphasize there, which is being good partners to our international contributors, but also being good partners to the people who work literally every day to make the spacecraft into reality. people who work literally every day to make the spacecraft into reality. And, you know, I don't want to gloss over JPL's losses either. I feel for the uncertainty and the suffering that people are

going to go through having suddenly lost their jobs. It's really no fault of their own, right? This is not some strategic realignment. This is panic mode because the money basically disappeared. This is not smart management. I mean, it's not JPL's fault. So this is, this is, I don't want to say, this is not smart, man. I mean, it's not JPL's fault, but this is a stupid situation that we find ourselves in, right? This is a pointless self-inflicted wound. And we are seeing in reports of other particular contractors, it's harder to lay off civil servant staff, which is distinct from JPL. There's a reason we haven't seen it, but a lot of other NASA centers are struggling right now and contractors. And, you know, we've spent the last 10 years really ramping up our space efforts to, as Jack said, all of these incredible missions being in the pipeline,

going through COVID, enduring, but still managing to launch incredible new missions. And then what, to just get rid of them at the first sign of trouble? It's absurd. And we really can do better than this. And we've seen and we're used to inaction, we're used to frustration. Democracy can be a messy process. But what we're seeing with these JPL layoffs is that these are real consequences for this to real people's lives and to real people's livelihoods who we want working for these incredible things. And it's a hard thing to see. So I think, again, that emphasis that these are real people with real consequences because of real political inaction. And unfortunately, people that work at NASA can't advocate to their representatives on this subject. This is a moment where we really have to be their voices because they can't advocate to their representatives on this subject. This is a moment where we really have to be their voices because they can't advocate for themselves. So we have our action center all ready for people to go, but we also have an in-person opportunity to go to Congress

and speak to the representatives directly with our upcoming day of action. How does this impact what we're going to be doing in Washington, D.C. in April? It's the ballgame, right? This is setting the stage for we are still debating the fiscal year 2024 budget. We're about to start debating the fiscal year 2025 budget. Can't believe that's already here. And our day of action, our in-person day

of action that returned phenomenally last year with over 100 people coming to DC to advocate for space science. We're doing it all again on April 29th, 2024. We're going to be on the ground at such a pivotal moment in the budget process and clearly a pivotal moment for the jobs at stake at the Jet Propulsion Lab, at the Goddard Space Flight Center, at centers and partnerships, partner organizations all over the country and the world. And joining the Day of Action is the best way that you can make a direct impact on how our legislators are thinking about the impacts of their decisions. And so please go to planetary.org slash day of action. Read about it.

Read some testimonials. It is such an uplifting and empowering experience to be with dozens, if not a hundred other members of the Planetary Society advocating for this thing that we hold so dear and actually making a difference. I hear it every day. I was just on the Hill two days ago and had a staffer tell me the impact that our members have, that that conversation had now four or five months ago, that impact is significant. So please, planetary.org slash day of action. If you can make it, we'd love to see you here, April 29th. And if you can't make it in person, you can absolutely join our efforts through our advocacy

action center at planetary.org slash action. And just anecdotally, speaking to my friends that have worked at JPL, do work, or just got laid off from JPL, it means the world to them that people are speaking up for them. We can't bring those jobs back necessarily, but we can help shape the future of space exploration and make sure that their jobs are secure. So this is a moment where I'm really looking forward to us all coming together and hopefully making a difference for these people and for all space exploration. Thanks, Jack and Casey. Thank you, Sarah. One thing is for sure. We can accomplish amazing things when we work together. Sometimes all it takes is a letter writing campaign and some patience. But in other cases, it takes decades and centuries of hard work and hope.

That's especially true of our next guests, the team behind National Geographic's new documentary, The Space Race. It debuted on National Geographic on February 12th before it began streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu on February 13th. Hulu on February 13th. This documentary is a testament to the resilience and the courage of the first Black astronauts and the racial inequality that they had to overcome to touch space. This film takes us on a journey through time, from the first African-American man to be offered a role as an astronaut during the Civil Rights Movement, to the first virtual conference of the Afro-nauts in 2020. It weaves the stories of so many inspiring people together, including Guy Bluford, the first Black astronaut, Charlie Bolden, who became the first Black NASA administrator,

and Victor Glover, an astronaut poised to become the first Black person to go beyond low Earth orbit to the moon and back. The Space Races Award-winning co-directors, Lisa Cortez and Diego Hurtado de Mendoza feel passionately that these are stories that are worth telling and celebrating. Lisa Cortez works to give voice to the unheard through her art. She's helped launch the careers of many musical artists, including Run DMC and the Beastie Boys, and she was the executive producer for the Academy Award

winning film Precious. Her form of explosive art and storytelling paired perfectly with Diego Hurtado de Mendoza's style. His work focuses on sharing historical moments in a contemporary style. And what they created together was a beautiful film. It shines a light on the bigotry that shaped humans' journey to space, but also the bright future that we hope to create when we work together to make sure that space is for everyone. Hi, Lisa and Diego. It's wonderful to meet you.

Hi, Sarah. Hi, Sarah. I wanted to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you for this documentary. I feel like this was a story that really needed to be told, and there was so much history that I only learned because of this film. And several months ago, the CEO of our organization, Bill Nye the Science Guy, got a chance to go see a pre-screening of this movie. And when he came back, he told the entire staff about it because it so deeply emotionally impacted him. So I'm sure many people will have a similar reaction among our listeners.

Diego, how did this documentary come to be? It was fascinating. You know, we're telling the story of African-Americans in the space program, and of all places, it started in Cuba, where we discovered that the first Latino and actually the first person of color to fly in space was Arnaldo Tamayo Mendez, the Cuban cosmonaut. And he flew with the Soviet Union. And with that, the Soviet Union claimed a moral victory over the U.S. because they flew the first person of color and they didn't have black population. And so we immediately were drawn to the comparison of what was going on in the United States to lose that so-called race against the Soviet Union. we started digging into all these incredible hidden stories, these hidden figures that we didn't quite know about. And that's just how the film came together. And Lisa and I fell in love with them. And, you know, and that's the film you see. That moment in particular in the film really surprised me. I mean, I shouldn't be surprised

by it, honestly, but that was a part of the history that I was so unaware of. And it is so tragic that the United States robbed itself of the opportunity to be this trailblazer for diversity and space. But thankfully, we're at a much better place now in our history. I wanted to ask you, Lisa, because every moment in history is unique, but we're right on the cusp of the Artemis generation going to the moon. So why is right now a particularly poignant moment for us to be seeing this film? Well, we're very excited to have the participation

of Victor Glover, who is a part of the Artemis team. And actually, we recently screened at the Johnson Space Center, and the whole Artemis team came to the screening to support Victor and to bear witness to the storytelling. I always think about the incredible Charlie Bolden and what he says in our film, that African-American history is American history. And to forget that, we do so at our peril. I think as we look at space exploration and the commercialization of space, we all need to understand that there is a place for everyone to participate

and to be a part of the advancement of science and progress. And I think our film is a great illustration of this long tale of history that has brought us to this moment. And I think the excitement in particular that we hold about the Artemis mission. I'm so excited to see more people represented in space. We're gonna see the first women,

the first people of color and the first non-Americans go back to the moon. So this is a moment for everyone to be really excited, and particularly this newer generation of people that did not know the bigotry of the earlier ages and the Apollo era. I think it's a really beautiful point. Diego, as you've gone through the history of African-American astronauts, how has that impacted the way you think about space exploration or maybe your hopes for the future of humanity? One thing that NASA astronauts talk about all the time is that when they're in space doing the most difficult things that human can do, they're doing the most advanced science

and advancing humankind's knowledge of our surrounding cosmos, they do it as a team. And they say, they always talk about mission first, which is they all learn how to work together and they live in space and work and do science as a team that works flawlessly. And I always thought, isn't that incredible that while they're doing all of that, and there's people of all kinds of races and creeds and religions, and they look out of the window and they see the earth as a rock where we all live together where there is no borders and they're doing what we hope we should be doing here on earth they're working together they're doing the most difficult thing so if they can do it up there you know that should be a model that's the most inspiring thing that we should take from them. If they can do it, we should figure out a way to apply all that way of working here on Earth. And so the inspiration

you get from them, I think it will touch everyone. I think it's really interesting that space exploration and just space fans in general have played such a role in this story of pushing forward diversity. Even though some of the astronauts who I'll be talking with in a little bit had to struggle so hard to get into space, we saw the reaction that people had to Star Trek. Lieutenant Uhura, played by Nichelle Nichols, a black woman on the bridge of a starship. Even before it was real, it was a dream that the space community has pushed forward. And I wanted to ask you, Lisa, what has been the reaction that people have had to watching this film? Has it made them feel vindicated or perhaps very frustrated? We've had an incredible journey with the film, appearing at film festivals all over, of which we have won several audience best of awards. And what always touches me are the people who come up afterwards who are not African-American

and thank Diego and I for making the film and how it is reminding them that there's so much history of the contributors to great advances in our country that they knew nothing about, and how this film is actually encouraging them to go back and learn more about what has not been included in the narrative of who has been the pioneers advancing us, particularly in science. And so that the hidden histories are encouraging people to go and learn more is something that really makes my heart sing. I think what's really cool about this is that it's not just empowering for African Americans in the United States to learn more about this history, but every triumph for any

underrepresented group uplifts all of us. So hearing this story, honestly, I hope it makes everyone feel like space is accessible to them because we're still in the midst of the struggle for civil rights, but things are so much better than they used to be. And if we all work together, we really can shape this future in space together that we're all craving. I'm sure you both have had a lot of adventures in creating this film. Diego, what was it like to meet so many of these African-American astronauts? And I'm sure this was a really electrifying experience because I met Mae Jemison once and almost lost my mind. You're absolutely right. Look, for me, it's been one of the highlights of my life. And it's not because

you meet icons that are on a pedestal. It's because you meet human beings just like you who are extremely hardworking, who are brilliant, who are excellent, who are multi-hyphenates. Each one of them inspires you to want to do better at every level in your life because that's how they behave. That's how they carry themselves and so it is just incredible they're smart they're compassionate they're loving like some of our last screenings the whole panel with ed dwight leland melvin victor glover they all start talking about how they feel this love and you feel it and the audience feels it, you know, that's incredible. For someone to be a scientist, a jet fighter pilot, do all these wonderful things and yet understand compassion and love

and make that their priority. You know, the way they behave with their families, the way they behave with each other, with us, with, you know, the audiences, with kids that approach them, it's unbelievable. I mean, astronauts really are the best of us. And so I think people will love the film because of them. It's hard not to love them after all they've accomplished. And the trails that they've blazed for each of us,

despite not meeting them, I feel very connected and very grateful. And there are so many stories you could tell with a documentary like this. Lisa, was there anything that you guys recorded that you really wish you could have kept in the film but just didn't have time? Well, we certainly would love to tell more about the incredible journey of Arnaldo Tamayo Mendez.

That is so rich and there's a lot of incredible material that we have. So that is is a big goal is to get his story out there also. Perhaps another documentary, because that story in and of itself would blow people's minds. Absolutely. You heard it here first. What were some of your favorite moments in creating this documentary?

Wow, there's so many incredible moments. I mean, the time I spent with Arnaldo in Cuba was absolutely stunning. He was born into poverty in the poorest part of the country. And then, you know, we got to travel with him, which was unbelievable. And then in the US, I love particularly the way we managed to get to know these astronauts as individuals. You often hear about them as sort of a box, like African-American astronauts, as if they were one thing. And the reality is they're, you know, as far as they can be from being anything monolithic, they're all individuals with very different life experiences. And so getting to spend time with them i think is the highlight for me it's the most incredible thing it's sharing you know the same air with these incredible individuals

how about you lisa well i i feel like a mad scientist you know diego and i had this dream and we want and the dream grew in ways that we did not expect. We had partners with Nat Geo and the Kennedy Marshall Company to support us in that. And most importantly, we had the buy-in from a community. And Leland Melvin, as our guide to this community, is all the ingredients that a mad scientist needs. scientist needs, and in this case, I guess, mad documentary filmmakers to craft something that is unique, that is centered in the voices of our participants, and that is moving and inspirational in equal parts. That is like this wonderful moment that all of these things align and that we could have this elevated story come about as a result is the joy of making this. I honestly feel like you could have made an entire documentary

series with this material. There was so much there in the middle that you got a chance to share, There was so much there in the middle that you got a chance to share but not fully in-depth explore. And I really hope that you and other documentary filmmakers tell more of this story because I feel like so much of it has been lost to time or perhaps just not taught. I think about all the time I spent in school learning about space exploration and never once were any of these figures mentioned to me. And that is just such a shame. It's so wild. It's a little ways out. And we did hear recently that the Artemis 2 and 3 mission are a little bit delayed. But on that day, when the first African American astronauts set their boots into the lunar regolith, what do you think you're both going to be doing to celebrate that day? I'm going to thank the ancestors for watching over us and really supporting us and supporting that astronaut on their journey.

I love that answer. What about you? I think I'll be realizing that maybe life is a little closer to the way it's supposed to be, where we get everyone participating in pushing the frontier of our knowledge forward. And that has to include everyone because NASA says it all the time. The great thing about diversity, which sometimes we hear about, and it's this sort of ethereal thing that no one quite understands, is very practical. I mean, if you have a diverse group of people with different experiences, they're going to come up with different solutions to really difficult problems.

So when we go out in space and want to go to the moon and other planets, we need everyone. We need the smartest people we have on this planet. And so that's what I'll be thinking, that we're applying the most incredible brains to the most difficult problems, and that's the way it's supposed to be. Well, I know that both of you, and I'm sure most of humanity, is gonna be cheering on that day,

and I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to it. And also how happy I am that people are gonna get to watch this documentary, because I think it'll really contextualize that moment for them in history and make it all the more special. So thank you for everything you've both done. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. We'll be right back after this short break. Hi, it's your old friend Matt Kaplan of the Planetary Society. A total solar eclipse is coming to North America on April 8th.

More than 600 million of you will be able to see at least a partial eclipse, and over 40 million people live in the path of totality. If you want to be ready to experience this rare cosmic event to the fullest, take the Planetary Society's online course all about solar and lunar eclipses. It's only available to Planetary Society members in our wonderful member community. So join us today at planetary.org slash membership. That's planetary.org slash membership. One of the stories that this documentary tells really effectively is the tale of Captain Ed Dwight.

We'll be hearing from him and astronaut Leland Melvin in a moment. In the early days of the space program, Ed Dwight was offered the chance to become the first African-American astronaut. Unfortunately, in the aftermath of the 1963 assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy, the political will to send the first person of color to the moon fell apart, and Ed never got his chance to go to space. NASA now recognizes him as a space pioneer, but it still underscores the painful reality that so many people were denied the opportunity to add their expertise to our space adventure.

Humanity had to wait until the 1980s before the first Black person got to go to space. Our other guest, Leland Melvin, got his chance to go to orbit for the first time in 2008. He was a mission specialist on the STS-122 space shuttle mission aboard Atlantis. He's a great friend of the Planetary Society and a lover of rescue dogs. His astronaut portrait with his two dogs will forever be one of the most heartwarming astronaut photos of all time. Leland went on to become NASA's Associate Administrator for Education, and he continues to share space with people to this day, including in his role as executive producer of this film. From Ed Dwight to Leland Melvin and

all of the other African-American astronauts, Every person who succeeds helps lay the groundwork for the next generation of space explorers. Thank you both for joining me and for literally everything you've done for humanity. I know that seems like a good start. How's that? Gladly. Leland, I hope, this is a little embarrassing to say,

but you have always been one of my favorite astronauts. And now that I've learned more about the history of African Americans going to space, Ed, I'm always going to think of you as one of my favorite honorary astronauts and space pioneers. Very good. I'll take that. it. We say it a lot here at the Planetary Society that space is for everyone, but that has not always been the case. And we are still to this day in the midst of trying to fight that fight. Space exploration has not always been open and accessible to everyone, but we are finally on the cusp of sending women and people of color to the moon. So this is a really special point in history, I think. I feel like as an Arab American woman that grew up in the age of 9-11, I've faced my own share of bigotry, but nothing compared to anything that the two of you have been through. And Ed, I feel like it must have been such a complicated thing to be offered this position, to be

potentially the first African-American astronaut in space, only to have that taken from you. What has it been like being able to share this story with a broader audience? Well, you know, you've got to consider my role in time, the status, where America was, what was the situation racially and all of that. what was the situation racially and all of that. At the time, I never considered this whole thing being earth-shaking. And this whole thing about becoming a black astronaut didn't have the same kind of – I didn't imagine myself as saving the race. My mother put this idea in my head about that if you do this, you're going to help the racial situation

and the world, make the world better by your going into space and being an astronaut. I mean, I just didn't, I was just, I had to do it one step at a time. And, you know, when I was offered the thing, I didn't want to have anything to do with it. But I was talked into it. But once I got a feel for it, I got a feel for what I was doing and feeling my way. It all began to work out. And I came to the conclusion that the background that I had, I could do it and I could make it successful. But at the time, it was more personal than anything else. I never projected about failure, you know, about what it was going to do if I failed. You know, that didn't kind of enter my, for some reason, didn't enter my mind.

And I guess that has to do with self-confidence, I suppose. But my role in the whole process, again, philosophically, was somebody had to start the conversation about Blacks in Space, okay? had to start the conversation about Blacks in Space. Okay. I wish that there were several more than me that were involved in this thing. And to have it laid all on my shoulders as one guy, I thought that part of it was very unfair, but I didn't think about it being unfair until after the fact. Because at the time, I was just going with it, you know. But as time went on, and I was introduced to all kinds of racial indignity and everything you could possibly imagine. But I fought it and I, in essence, I won the game. And this movie does an incredible job of taking that, that whole idea, this whole Ed Dwight idea and making it have sense.

They put it in the context of our time and put all through the movie that there's a timeline and they put my involvement in this thing as time went on and it made my involvement a little bit more important than i ever thought it would be you know because you don't think you sometimes you you bury your head in the sand and you just full speed ahead not knowing what the result and the ramifications are, what you're doing. And then it came out later, my God, I did that? You did. I'm responsible for that?

I can't help but think of the lost opportunity there. It is so unfair to put the burden of representing an entire demographic on someone's shoulders. But at that moment in history, it would have meant so much to so many people to see a black astronaut in space. Leland, how do you think it would have changed your life to see someone that early on in the age of astronauts that you felt represented by? Well, you know, when I think of 69, Sarah, and me holding the rabbit ears on a black and white Slovenian television set, never seeing the transmission, but knowing that there was no one that looked like me on that other side of the television, I never imagined in my wildest dreams that I would want to be an astronaut. I wanted to be Arthur Ashe, a tennis player. And, you know,

just kind of meandered to that when I started working at NASA Langley. But if Ed Dwight had been on that television, it could have changed everything. Who knows what would have happened? I mean, it still happened for me, but I think for so many other kids, the possibility of what could happen. And now when you look at, you know, I go into schools and have on my blue flight suit and some kids think I'm the Jiffy Lube repairman, because when they see a guy in a blue flight suit, an American flag, it's not an astronaut, it's a Jiffy Lube person or someone in a, you know, so that now I'm helping educate people, see, Hey, this flight suit, he's got his patches.

They designed these patches to go on Atlantis to the space station, deliver Columbus laboratory and do spare parts. And so I think it's an evolutionary process. But it started it. And we're so thankful for it, which you've done, brother. I mean, it's and when we were watching the D.C. Docs Film Festival and Ed got with Bill Nye and they started talking about the negro baseball leagues

you should have seen their faces there they were lighting up and so black culture space you know planetary society all these things were mixed into that that one screening that we all celebrated right there with nikki giovanni who had just done a movie about Mars. And we're in that room celebrating all of this legacy and beauty and future, you know, of all people going to Mars one day and to what y'all do there at Planetary Society, just helping people believe in what mission possible is. Well, it's going to take a lot of work, all of us working together to try to make space a place where everyone feels represented,

where we can all make that a part of our dreams. And I'm so looking forward to this next generation of astronauts, because I feel like it was that presence of humans on the moon that just set everyone's imagination on fire. But it's been like 50 years since that happened. To see the next generation of astronauts, can you imagine what that's going to do to impact the next generation of children? It's going to be beautiful. Right. I think something in the film, I mean, this was the moment that really made me ugly cry, was the moment when Victor Glover was talking about putting that picture of George Floyd in the cupola at the ISS

and reaching out to all of the Black astronauts to have this phone call, this call that he called the group of Afronauts. And you were actually on that call, Leland. What was that like? It was incredible, Sarah. It was like this collective of Black excellence coming around to help Victor get through this moment in our history you know where derek chauvin could have potentially been exonerated for the killing of george floyd and just what would have happened the riots potentially in houston and he's got four daughters he's got a wife that are in houston and so how do we protect him how do we protect his family if those kinds of things are going on i mean i'm sure it would have been a powder keg if that had happened, but it didn't.

So it was OK. But he knew that we had his back in that moment if he needed us to rise up to help in that situation. And I think it also since then, we've been emailing everyone emails back and forth and the Afronaut email chain. And it's a beautiful thing. It's a really, it's a much needed, but beautiful thing. But it's sad that it had to come, you know, around that time of George Floyd and Derek Chauvin's trial, but you know,

it's galvanized us now. Sometimes it takes those moments of pain for us to really ask for help and to lean on each other. And it makes me really happy to know that something that beautiful came out of this moment of sadness, because what's more beautiful than people lifting each other up, especially in that context. Imagine sitting out in space, staring down at the earth below while all of these people who've walked the same path that you have share that pain, that burden with you. It's beautiful. Yeah. You feel lifted up. You feel shored up. I felt a very similar thing, Ed, when I was looking at your monument that you built in Texas

that was described in the film as this journey from slave to astronaut. What a beautiful piece of artwork and what a profound thing to depict. I loved that. Well, thank you very much. That was perfectly natural for me because it fit into the early history that I had done about Texas. And I ended up finding Esa Ponderante back in the 1500s was exploring Texas, the Tejano territory. And here we got an astronaut from Houston, Texas. What a connection! And so it was laid out ahead of me. What the hell happened in between? You know, and the time that he went up, and I said, natural for me uh so so i did it went through all

the history i did more history on that one than i did on any mother uh but i went back in time to 1500 to 1600s researching history about everything that happened in the tahano territory and the mexican-american war i studied that's on the back of the memorial and I didn't leave anything out on that memorial. It's one of my more complete and better executions. I would love to go see it in person. I mean, honestly, and what a beautiful way to use art to tell this story. I love that you've been over the years continuing on with your art and sharing these parts of the culture just to like make them more visible to people. It's so meaningful. There was also this moment, and I believe it was right at the end of the film, where you were on a call with Jessica Watkins and Victor Glover. I truly hope that people remember you because I think that your place in history and yours too, Leland, should be remembered for years to come. And I hope that we build like a monument on Mars someday because you are both a part of this legacy and you deserve to be represented there.

So, you know, I won't live to see it. Probably we probably won't all live to see it. But I hope people in the future continue to honor both of your legacies. Well, thank you, Sarah. You're very kind. And I know Leland, you've been a great friend of the Planetary Society, but I want to extend the invitation to both of you. If you ever want to come by our headquarters and come see everything, we would love to have you. And you have my word that the Planetary Society is going to do everything we can to continue to build this

coalition of people around the world, to be this voice for diversity and equality and inclusion in space, because we are better when we go together. And it is hard to do it alone. And both of you have accomplished amazing things with not enough support. And if we can be that support, if we can help, that would be the ultimate honor. Thank you. Thank you so much. I cannot recommend this documentary enough. It's always difficult and heartbreaking to reflect on the ways that bigotry has impacted our human journey.

But if we work together, we can shape a future where everyone is always welcome in our space community and on planet Earth. Again, if you'd like to watch the space race, it debuted on National Geographic on February 12th and began streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu on February 13th. We can't change the world all at once, but we can each do our part to make sure that we share the inspiration and awe of space science and exploration with as many people as we can. Our next guest, Moo Hoodles, has been doing her part to share space with as many people as possible on Twitch, an interactive live streaming platform. We'll be doing a stream together on Friday, February 23rd. Here's her story. Hey, Moo Hoodles. Hello. I'm so happy to have you on the show and really excited that we're

going to be collaborating on this Twitch live stream. I am so excited to stream with you and I'm so happy to be here. Thank you. We've been talking on the show about the fact that space should be for everyone and that we need to advocate to make that a real thing. But there's an interesting tie in here and that in order to make people feel like space is for them. We need to be communicating science in places where everyone is. And you're part of the first generation of science communicators on Twitch, which is a live streaming platform. How long have you been streaming on Twitch? So I've been streaming for almost a decade. In a few months, it'll be 10 years on Twitch, which is kind of surreal.

That's amazing. Are you going to get yourself like a little statue or something? Maybe I should. That's a good idea. Yeah, I know on YouTube, people do that thing where they celebrate a certain number of subscribers with a plaque or something when you should get yourself a plaque. I love that idea. Actually, I love it. Presented off in a celebration. Exactly. How did you get started? I actually kind of started streaming because I thought I was funny and had good reactions to things, which it would be a totally different answer nowadays, you know. But I ended up bringing that science communication in just because I really loved space and I just always wanted to talk about it. So when I was playing video games, I just, you know, was talking about cool astrobiology topics. I was actually the president of my astronomy club at college.

So I kind of brought things from those lectures into my Twitch streams and would just talk about it. That's such a fun way to do that. And we'll get into this overlap between the science community and gaming in a little bit. But I have always felt like it would be so fun to just share space with people while playing space games. And I'm really glad that there are people like you and a growing community that are actually really into that these days. Oh, thank you. It's so fun. What was the science community like on Twitch when you first started versus now? Because it's been a decade. Yeah, so it like wasn't really a thing back then. We kind of had to use other parts of the platform,

like I said, like, you know, gaming categories just to talk about things. Or later on, we could use like the one category that was for non-gaming content. But because of me and other content creators, Twitch was actually able to see an emerging trend of people that wanted to watch these science communication streams. And so they made the science and technology category back in 2018. technology category back in 2018. So now we have like this regular interactive learning site on the internet where people can tune in from all over the world and learn from science communicators and actual scientists. We have paleontologists, geologists, volcanologists, like everything in STEM. And yeah, there's just content on Twitch for everyone. It's so awesome. That's a great point because there's always been this really robust science communication community on places like YouTube and other platforms, social media sites. But there's something really powerful about the interactivity that you get on live streaming platforms like Twitch. It really allows you to communicate with people directly. How has that interactivity allowed you to share space with people in a different way?

that interactivity allowed you to share space with people in a different way? So I would say interacting live is everything for me. It makes learning a lot more engaging, and you're able to be part of the conversation and community. You're not just a viewer, you're a participant if you want to be. And it is just so fun because I get to work with the energy and the interaction of chat. And there's so many brilliant people that hang out in my community. Viewers are coming in from so many brilliant people that hang out in my community. Viewers are coming in from so many different scientific aspects around the world.

Like we've actually had scientists with published papers, software engineers working on space stuff, or even people that, you know, watch Bill Nye as a kid and just want to keep learning because science rules. And these chatters can contribute

so much to the discussions. They make us laugh. They enable us to find new aspects and avenues to explore that we maybe wouldn't have thought about otherwise, or maybe it wasn't touched on in the source that we were reading about. And it leads us to just learn so much more and have a connected and deeper understanding while promoting scientific literacy and getting people excited about space and space advocacy. I thought that I knew a lot about space. I went and got my degree in astrophysics. I thought I knew what I was talking about, but it wasn't until I was interacting with

people working at an observatory every day, answering people's questions that I realized how much I hadn't learned and all the things that people really found interesting. And that interactivity really changed the way that I not only communicated science, but thought about the field in general. So it's cool that you get to do that literally all the time. Oh, thank you. And I love that. Yeah, getting the feedback from people and seeing what questions they have, or how they like interpret different things, I think is just so like invaluable. It really helps you know a topic and also be able to let other people learn it better, too. Platforms like Twitch and TikTok tend to attract a younger audience because of that interactivity and that kind of authenticity that comes with it, right? You can't curate who you are when you're literally just talking to people live on the Internet.

What is your audience like and what are they most interested in learning about? So you might be surprised that a lot of my community has actually shared that they've seen Halley's Comet or even the moon landing. It's been so exciting and fascinating to hear them share about their experiences and passions in space. So naturally, we really love seeing all the beautiful new photos and discoveries from the James Webb Space Telescope, as well as anything with cameras or microphones on another body in space, such as the OSIRIS-REx mission, touching down to take a sample of the asteroid Bennu, or even the Perseverance rover listening to the sound of Mars for the first time. We get really, really excited about future missions like the Europa Clipper

and what discoveries are waiting to be known. And I think my excitement is usually reflected onto others as well, which might sound kind of weird. But like, if I get hyped up on an astrobiology topic, everyone else gets really excited. And they're like, Oh, wait, what is this going to be? And yeah, so I think just everything about space overall is so captivating and sparks curiosity. And so we just, we get really excited about everything, I suppose. But that's the beauty of sharing what you love. And, you know, for lack of a better way to put it, advocating for space.

Because people don't always feel like this is something that's accessible to them. And classically, there have been a lot of people that have been left out of this discussion or meant to feel like space isn't for them, right? But as soon as you get to share what you love with people, make them feel welcome in it, allow them to ask their own questions. That's when the real change happens. It's magic. No one should feel shunned from being able to participate in anything about space.

Set aside all of the amazing citizen science projects out there that you can help out with. I really strive to make my community so welcoming and so accepting to everyone. Like you don't have to know anything about space or you could literally be working at NASA and it's like the place for you to feel accepted and welcome. Space is for everyone. That's what we try to do here at the Planetary Society. But I think that's a sentiment that's reflected across so many people that are in the science community. This is something that's for all of us, and we all love it passionately. And we want everyone

else to understand how cool this stuff is, because come on, it's so cool. It is. Twitch is a really kind of game-centric platform. Classically, when people think about Twitch, they think about people playing video games. And if we're any indication, the two of us are big gamers, so there's a lot of indication, the two of us are big gamers. So there's a lot of overlap between the space community and the gaming community. And every once in a while you do game streams. So how have you been using gaming to help people understand space science? There is definitely such a huge overlap between gamers and space lovers.

I often play space focused games on my stream. So when people come into the stream for the first time for the game, and then they realize that I also do science communication, they get really, really excited because they're actually able to like learn about these cool topics or see what things in the game are relevant to like real life space stuff. So for example, like when I play games like Starfield, I was so excited that there was a like xenobiologist class in that. So I decided essentially to role play that and bring all of my astrobiology education into every single gameplay stream. And so people got to learn so much about astrobiology. And like the majority of people who came in for Starfield didn't even know astrobiology was like a thing.

So I really got to nerd out. And it also helps to be able to visualize some of the wonders in space and video games just make a really good talking point with that added educational tool. Sometimes we'll play a game called Space Engine, which is like a 3D visualization of things in space. And that's a really, really great educational tool. But I also, as you know, play Star Citizen. And I think that's just a gorgeous game that gets people excited about space because it's so pretty, but then they can learn something too. So. Right. I'm sure we're going to be talking about Star Citizen on the stream because I've been a big fan of this game for a long time. Once I start going about the physics of that game and what

they're accomplishing, I won't shut up. So it's great. It's a fantastic tool. I would love to hear you talk all about that. We so will. What is a typical MooHoodle stream like? So we always start talking about current news and doing a lot of science communication about just everything happening in outer space and astrobiology. Essentially, we nerd out for hours while learning in this interactive and engaging environment. And then we can play games later on and nerd out in those too. Recently, we've been doing some just full streams of like only science communication because it's been super fun. And that's pretty much what a typical stream is like.

And I've watched some of them. It's a real good time. I feel like there are so many beautiful moments happening in space right now. I can't even share all of them on the show because there are just so many space agencies around the world and a lot of commercial entities that are getting tied up in space. And there's so many topics that we can't cover. It's a beautiful thing that you can just sit there and answer people's questions and go through the space news for hours on end, because that's a really fun and accessible way to do that. And you can really get to all the topics that maybe we can't deep dive into every single week. I'm really looking forward to our stream together. And that's

going to be on Friday, February 23. You're going to start the stream a little early at 6pm Pacific time. But in the meantime, how can people find your channel on Twitch? And what time do you stream? Pacific Time. But in the meantime, how can people find your channel on Twitch? And what time do you stream? Sarah, I am so excited to stream with you. We are going to have so much fun. I am live every Monday, Wednesday, Friday at 7pm Mountain Time, which is 6pm Pacific Time. And you can find me at twitch.tv slash M-O-O-H-O-O-D-L-E-S. Moodles. Mhoodles. Well, thanks for joining me, and I'm looking forward to this. Thank you. That's going to be a lot of fun. If you can make it, we'd love for you to join us in the chat during the live stream.

Now, let's check in with Bruce Betts, the chief scientist of the Planetary Society, for What's Up. Hey, Bruce. Hey, Sarah. We are celebrating Valentine's Day here in the United States today. So happy Valentine's Day. Happy Valentine's Day. You know, there's a random space fact video for Valentine's Day. Really? Post a link to it talking all about the asteroid Eros and co-starring from our board of directors, Bob Picardo, Star Trek actor, etc. You can see him just really, really abuse me.

It's funny. Verbally. Verbally. Verbally. Now, I'll share that on the episode page for this episode of Planetary Radio because I don't think I've seen that one yet. Yeah, there's a story, merited graphics. There's a Cupid. There's an asteroid.

There's a Star Trek actor. There's me getting embarrassed. It's quite fabulous. And there's even facts about the asteroid, strangely enough. Enough about that. Everything that people love. Happy Valentine's Day. But I got this chance to talk to so many people that I respect a lot.

But I got to talk to Leland Melvin, who's one of my favorite astronauts. And that was a moment for me. That's really cool. Have you ever gotten to talk to him before? No, I have not. Ooh, well, maybe, hopefully we can make that happen. I invited him and Ed Dwight to come visit our headquarters. Fingers crossed that'll happen. But I think it would be really cool to all be there and hang out with those people because, wow.

Pretty cool. No, but I don't know if you've had this experience meeting other astronauts, but every time I always have this kind of starstruck feeling. And then I meet them and they're just such kind, down-to-earth, but very good, hardworking people. And it always makes me feel both like I could do that and also like I'm not worthy. Yes, I've had that experience often. I could do that and also like I'm not worthy. Yes, I've had that experience often. I've met a lot of astronauts and yes, they're partly selected for their sociability and how well they play with others and so they tend to be nice. Little known fact maybe, I was interviewed for the astronaut program

many moons ago and I was impressed by how kind and nice everyone was with sharing and talking and such. And the person who got selected out of my group went on to do great things and was a wonderful person, is a wonderful person. Imagine somewhere in the multiverse you were an astronaut. Yeah, weird. Weird. Yeah, instead I was just a guy who had a problem with one ear adjusting to pressure changes. Because, you know, that's enough.

Relatable. Anyway, yeah. No, astronauts are cool. And I have certainly been starstruck by the ones from when I was younger. And they were the astronauts. So I'm less starstruck now. But still, they're impressive. starstruck now, but still, they're impressive. Yeah, it's really interesting getting to have these conversations about how many people would have made amazing astronauts but were denied that

opportunity either because of their race or because they were women or insert reason here. There are so many amazing people that haven't had that chance yet. And I'm really looking forward to a future where we have even more human missions to space and even more accessibility and diversity among our crews. It's going to be such a cool moment in the future to look back at this time and see how far we've come and how much things have changed. That's true. That part is great. I will throw in the caveat for all astronauts that there aren't going to be a lot of missions for a long time. So it's still going to be a very specialized group.

Yeah. Especially after the ISS comes down, we're going to have to wait for that lunar gateway to be fully built so that we can have even more permanent human presence in space. Because China already has their space station. So thankfully, we're still going to have humans in space. But it's going to be a little bit of a wait to get that kind of ISS feel back. The ISS feel. Hello, dog.

Sorry, my dog's in my lap again. Speaking of dogs, though, I know that people have told me that part of why they love Leland Melvin so much in our member community is because of his astronaut photo with his rescue dogs. Are your dogs rescue dogs? My dogs are rescue dogs, including Gracie, who's trying to talk, pant into the microphone. Now she's licking the microphone in my face. She is a full-blown rescue dog, street dog, now happily snuggles into the warm spaces

when it's raining outside, and just in general. So yeah, and then Giant Max, that's our small dog, the 85-pounder. And then Giant 200-pound Max is just a magnificent, gentle giant rescue dog. Lots of dogs for that. All rescue dogs throughout my life. And they're awesome. Adopt, don't shop. Spay and neuter.

Spay and neuter. Take care of our animal friends. One of these days, I can't wait to be on a spacecraft with a cat or a dog with me, just adventuring through space together. That'd be so cool. I somehow think it would just freak the heck out of my dogs.

Zero-G is not something they're really like going, yeah, I get that. All right. So what's this week's random space fact? Random space fact. All right. The total fuel carried by Charles Lindbergh on the Spirit of St. Louis on his transatlantic

Solos record-setting flight was equivalent to a tenth, a tenth of the amount that the Saturn V would burn every second. And you may think, how did these two weird things come together? Not random, oddly enough. Charles Lindbergh and his wife visited the Apollo 8 crew the night before they headed off to go around the moon. And he talked about using a piece of string to measure distance on a globe and then calculating the fuel needed and then talked to the crew and watch the launch the next day and all went well and fuel was burned and it was good.

But it's the, those big rockets, it's, it doesn't matter which one you pick. There's a stunning amount of fuel burned every, every second, every moment. There really is. That's why I'm so glad that a lot of companies are trying to find new alternatives that are more friendly for the environment. Oh, like stomp rockets. If everyone jumps on this thing at once,

but on a more serious note, before we close out today, I just wanted to say how cool it is to work at an organization that really cares about making sure that space is for everyone. And I think coming on board and learning that that was so much of what we were trying to do right now, rethinking the way that our organization works to make sure that everyone feels welcome in space made me feel really welcome. And thanks for being a kind of mentor to me, Bruce. You're awesome, Sarah, and we're glad to have you. And yes, indeed, space is for everyone. Yes, Gracie, you too, if you want. I mean, I don't know that you want. Okay. Okay. Stop licking me. All right, everybody, go out there, look up in the night sky and think about dogs licking your face. Thank you, and good night. We've reached the end of this week's episode of Planetary

Radio, but we'll be back next week for an update on OSIRIS-APEX. OSIRIS-REx may have completed its sample return from Bennu, one of the most dangerous asteroids we've found to date. But now the spacecraft is kicking it up a notch and headed toward asteroid Apophis. In 2029, that asteroid is coming closer to Earth than our geostationary satellites, so getting a close look at it is probably for the best.

You can help others discover the passion, beauty, and joy of space science and exploration by leaving a review and a rating on platforms like Apple Podcasts. Your feedback not only brightens our day, but also helps other curious minds find their place in space through Planetary Radio. You can also send us your space thoughts, questions, and poetry at our email at planetaryradio at planetary.org. Or if you're a Planetary Society member, leave a comment in the Planetary Radio space in our member community app. Planetary Radio is produced by the Planetary Society in Pasadena, California, and is made possible by our members around the world who believe that space is for everyone. No matter who you are or where you're from, you're welcome to

join us at planetary.org slash join. Mark Colverta and Ray Pauletta are our associate producers. Andrew Lucas is our audio editor. Josh Doyle composed our theme, which is arranged and performed by Peter Schlosser. And until next week, Ad Astra.