Plumbing the Death Star - The Ethical Dilemmas of Azkaban

Episode Date: November 17, 2014

In which our heroes lock themselves in chains, try to avoid the dementors, and serve out their sentence, whilst asking what are the ethical implications of Azkaban. In part three of our seven part exploration of the Harry Potter Universe we look at the best ways to capture wizards, the job possibilities of a dementor, and the frankly incompetent justice system in the magical world. Jackson tries to sort out the deer/rabbit equation, Zammit refuses to actually reference Harry Potter, and Duscher just wants all criminals to be permanently paralysed. It's a lawless, crime filled wizarding world, as we find ourselves adrift in a sea of criminal negligence.To help pay for our wizarding defence team head to http://www.patreon.com/sanspantsradio and for as little as $1 a month, you can make a difference to our continued freedom. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

San Spence Radio, Charlie is our favourite Weasley. Hey, today's episode is brought to you by Adam Carnevale. You're handsome, Adam. Hey guys, and welcome to this week's episode of Plumbing the Death Eaters, where we ask important questions like, what are the ethical dilemmas of Azkaban? Uh, I don't have a problem with Azkaban. What do you mean you don't have a problem with Azkaban?

That's a good one to keep wizards in check. You've got... But is there a trial to go to Azkaban? Yeah, either or. Because... Good place. They're wizards. Okay, so...

Okay, with the trial thing, let's get this down straight off. Sometimes there is a trial, because there's a Ministry of Magic shit. Yes. And I'm fairly sure there is trials there. Oh, yeah, they send... Yeah, yeah, yeah. But sometimes... No trials.

Hagrid just gets sent on a whim. They're like, hey, we think you may be killing kids off to Azkaban. Was there a trial just off screen, off page? We just didn't see it? No, they're pretty much like, straight to Azkaban with you. He's like, damn it, Azkaban, I hate Azkaban. Is Azkaban, is that like, I'm just trying to think in terms of real prisons, is that like maximum security and there's like a minimum security?

It's more than, well, I was going to say it's like maximum security, but it has very terrible security. It's easy to break out of. Yeah, but Azkaban exists on, it's like a rock in the middle of the sea. Yep. They chucked Azkaban on it. That'd be really hard to escape from if you weren't a wizard. Yes.

True. You see, it's a wizard prison. It's like Alcatraz, but with Dementors. Yeah, okay. But you're forgetting that what we're locking up here are like wizards. And we're not just talking like run-of-the-mill Harry Potter piece of shit wizards. These are like... The boy who lived. Yeah.

These are like your fuck-off, brutal... These are the serial killers of the wizard world. They're the grown-up Slytherins. Yeah. All I'm saying is that with wizards of that caliber, you need a pretty brutal place to keep them. Better... Where are you?

Okay, say Azkaban off the table, and I'm a wizard and I've killed thousands, literally thousands. I'm one of the most powerful wizards it's ever been. All right. Where are you putting me? Literally in the ocean. So we've captured you, yeah?

So you're drowning me? Yeah, you caught me. I'm in chains. I'm in wizard chains. So I've broken your wand. That's the noise I make. Okay, so I'm grabbing your wand and breaking that. Okay.

Damn. Wands are very easy to break. Rats. Yeah, they really are. Alder wand, most powerful wand in all of the world. Snap, throw in a lake. Do you have wizarding powers without a wand? Yes, yes.

Some wizards can. I'm that powerful that I can. Okay, I'm going to... Oh, I'm out of chains. Wizarding myself out of the chains. Well, no, no, no, that's different. Because you're taking you to Azkaban. House elves are more powerful than wizards, right?

Correct. That is a thing, yeah? I'm nodding at you, Lucia, because yes, and you look sceptical. I'm looking at you confused because you're nodding at me. You put on a pair of scepticals. I can see that. So I'm going to have a bunch of house... Can I steal you?

Can I, like, the sort of Wheel of Time thing? Excuse me? Wheel of Time, it's another fantasy series where they can basically, the wizards of that world, they can be stilled, as in, like, they cut off from the magic source. Can you cut someone off from the magic? I don't think so, I think it's pretty innate, not without killing me Yep

I'm gonna kill you then Nope, not on the table Where are you putting me? Oh, I'll tell you where Azkaban Really? Because how are you getting to Azkaban? Because you just said you broke out of your wizarding chains It's because you took too long to decide where I went Even if we were like, you're going to Azkaban

Wizards can fucking teleport as well. But is there an encasing spell? No, what you're probably looking for is like a paralysis spell. Yeah. Yeah, okay. I'm going to put you like in my minority report. I'm trying to point out how much trouble you're having getting me to the prison. Which wasn't even the question.

Minority report, where they kind of like put them in stasis and put them in like a... Wheel of Time, Minority Report, not Harry Potter. I know, but like in Minority Report... Hey, do you know what is Harry Potter? Lord of the Rings. But like in Minority Report, where they sort of put them in stasis and put them in like a tube or whatever. So something like that. Paralysis you.

Yes. So you're parallelised. Oh, gee. One of the deadly curses, one of the three... three You could use excruciate To torture me to prison That's mean We're better than that doucher The puppet one? Crucius? Is it? Crucius? Whatever

Or is that Crucius the torture one? Point is you can puppet me to prison Okay you goddamn Puppet you to prison You've got me to prison My You, okay, you goddamn numbskits. You've got me to prison. Okay, stasis you. My prison's underwater. Okay, I'll pop out. How?

No, I mean, am I still paralyzed? Damn right. We do not, we never unparalyzed you. So you're just paralyzing me forever. I'm just one of many pods full of paralyzed wizards Underwater

That is better I'll give you that, that's great I mean, ethically fucked Okay, well, I'm glad So you're Team Azkaban, but you're bringing up ethical issues No, no, no, no You shut the fuck up for a second Let me talk you through what you...

She didn't even move. You looked at me with your dumb eyes and you're like, Joel, but Joel, I'm going to interrupt you and say something dumb. I have no time for your shit, Jackson. All right, you're like, oh, Azkaban. I see no problem with it. Paralyzing people and putting them under waters. Fuck. You shut up. I haven't... You shut up too. Fair enough. Let me explain. I'm on your side. I had is fucked. You shut up. I haven't.

You shut up too. Fair enough. Let me explain. I'm on your side. I had that coming. I'm on your side. Okay, let's hear it. All right.

Azkaban. Yeah. Dementors literally suck the life force out of people. But they also just, like, scare them. It's a fear tactic. If you're a wizard in Azkaban, you're like, I'm not breaking out because those dementors will take my soul. Yeah, but you're underwater.

No, that's your prison, not Azkaban. Yeah, but Azkaban, stealing someone's soul is far more, like, ethically fucked than killing them. Is it? Yes. Yeah, oh, look, oh, great. Because you're pretty much killing them. When you're paralyzed

Are you still conscious? That makes it awesome Because if so, I'm liking our prison a lot better In their brain it's just playing over Maybe guilt will set in So let's do a little prison comparison Okay, comprison Okay, so you have

Comprison So you have Azkaban Where your biggest threat is the Potential to lose your soul Or your prison, which is an Eternity of hell As you lie there, unable to move Slowly going insane

Until you get released I killed a lot of wizards, I'm not getting released Okay, well then who cares You put me in for life Yeah, but then why do you care about me in for life. Good. Yeah, but then why do you care about fucking Death Eaters? Good then as well. Take your souls. I think I have a lesser problem

with the prison than just the justice system. Like, if he's been if you've been proven to have slaughtered thousands, I'm happy to kill you. Like, not gonna lie. That's fine. Joel Samet, death penalty.

Bring it back. It is surprising. What was the genocide? No, but it is surprising that in the wizard world where death is not treated like much of a big deal, you know, Quidditch and what have you, where like, what, you die? Oh, well. It is surprising they don't go in for the death penalty.

You'd think they'd be all about beheadings and hanging by the neck until dead They fucking love their medieval bullshit So why not? I don't know why this is the one instance But clearly they're not good prisons Neither prison is great Our prison's pretty good

Because if Azkaban If there's people there that are being released Say Say you... You were riding your broom. You're a little bit drunk. Out of it too much bottle beer. Looking left when you should have looked right.

Whatever. You're in prison for five years. But in Azkaban, five years could potentially be dead within three days. That's true because the Dementors don't really care. They'd be like, I just want to make out with you a little. And then you're dead.

Well, soulless. That is misconduct of justice right there. That's also a gross misunderstanding of Dementors. Dementors, lonely. Yeah, Dementors are barely sentient. No, they're sentient. Yeah, but like barely. You couldn't have a conversation.

No. You could not hold a conversation with a Dementor They talk about when Voldemort takes over When Voldemort takes over Voldemort takes over They've pretty much been like The Dementors are going to go on Voldemort's side So they switch sides So they're obviously

Cognizant enough to be like Have like a union meeting But they also Hey Voldemort's letting us kill people We love killing people That seems alright Let's have a vote Who's raising their hands

Alright that's more than 50% Hi guys Dementor over here Dementor Joel here Dementor Joel Your voice is weird I was just wondering why everyone's whispering First of all Scared of being caught

Second of all I'm not cool With just murdering people We're meant to be the justice system You're a Dementor I always saw us as more like the kind of person who keeps alligators out back.

I like alligators. Dangerous, but it's not really our fault. Well, I think I might... Can I quit? No. Good luck getting any other job, idiot. So yeah, being a Dementor sucks. But also, Dementors are blind,

and they just sense people from their happiness and then feed off it. Yeah, and if you're in Azkaban, you aren't happy. No, but your answers are like, Voldemort's coming. Look, there's a bunch of happy people over there. I'm giving you free reign to eat. I'm hungry.

Like an alligator that you were like, here's a whole deer. Would you like to be my friend? And then the guy not giving you deer. I'm giving you like ten rabbits. My metaphor became confused. No, I'm on board. I'm on board. I follow. How many rabbits equals a deer? The Jackson Bailey problem.

Apparently it's over ten. I like that. Like it was a mathematical You know there's this list of like ten equations nobody's over 10. I like that you said that. Like it was a mathematical... You know those lists of 10 equations nobody's ever solved? The Jackson Valley equation. How many rabbits to one deer? It puzzles us all. 9, 10, 11?

No one knows. We assume around that. No one's really having to figure it out. Dementors are somewhat sentient. But they're a better solution than you. Being unconscious. You are suggesting torture. Okay, yes.

You are suggesting forever torture. What if they're unconscious, not paralyzed? Can I? No, unconscious, not paralyzed. No, that's... No, because then they're not... Sam, I want some to go crazy. Actually, no. I'm back on board.

Wait, hang on. I'm off board with the paralysis idea because this is kind of cruel and unusual punishment. It's just torture. So that's cruel and unusual punishment. It's sucking some guy's soul out. I'm not going on... It's not that unusual. It's just a thing. I'm saying they're both out. I'm not going on. That's not that cruel.

It's not that unusual. It's just a thing. I'm saying they're both shit. Cruel and usual punishment. There's got to be a better way. So I can't have a spell where I take away their magic. Nope. Can I have a bunch of guards that are always there? I guess you can.

See, no, I feel like this is where the dementia is. I'm just using every other movie franchise. TV and film, book franchise. It's not Harry Potter. I want to point out just one last flaw in the paralysis one that I didn't think of until now. Are you just having, like, one guy doing this spell? No, the Ministry of Magic will do it.

So you're sending people down there whose sole job is just sit in a chair and read the paper and paralyze the guy behind them. The workforce you're gonna need... You paralyze one. You paralyze them once and that's it, yeah? Yeah. That's not how the curse works. You paralyze them once,

and then the moment you start paralyzing them up, like, fuck you. So you're gonna need a lot of people. Like paralyzes and stops those little fairy little fuckers moving. That's not the curse. That's like a still curse. Okay, find that one. And they're like,

I'm sure it'll wear off. I think spells wear off. The puppeting one was just to get them, because you were like, they just break out of the chains and they kill you. It was like, okay, well then we just put a different spell. Yeah, all right.

We're wizards. We'll sort this shit out. I'm pretty sure there has to be a wizarding spell to at least block your wizarding-ness powers Right? They would have to be Even if there is I'm still shivving the other wizards in I can't, I'm paralysed

So we paralysed you It's an underground It's an underwater thing, so if they do break out Good luck swimming, Jack Eat some fucking gillyweed. From where? Smuggled it up my arse. You know what?

I'm giving him this. The old gillyweed up the bum hole trick. Or just turn yourself into a fucking shark. Transfigurate yourself. Well, that's only if you escape. Oh no, I fucked up. I'm now the number eight. That was a dumb joke, that's only if you escape. Transfigurate. Oh, no, I fucked up. I'm now the number eight. That was a dumb joke, but I'm proud of it.

We rolled with it, too, which makes it worse. Yeah, but, like, it's the same thing. I'm guessing Paralyze and Puppet U to get to where you are. No, because Azkaban has the same issues. Like, okay, it's in a rock in the middle of the ocean. I'm going to turn myself into an eagle and fly away. Okay, all right. Okay, yeah, no Dementors, because that's just mean.

It's dumb. Things can go too cruel. All right, aside from the Dementors. Say Jackson Bailey, head warden of Azkaban prison. You come to me, you're like, hey. There's two big problems. There's two big problems. Well, I've gotten rid of the Dementors.

Then there's one problem. It's just the justice system Everyone needs a trial And you shouldn't be treating A man like yourself that's murdered Thousands of wizards And a man who was drunk Got on his broom and turned

Looked left but he should have looked right The same Is Azkaban for the criminally insane Or am I just thinking of Arkham again I think you're thinking of Arkham Asylum again. Not Harry Potter films. Or books. Sorry, yeah.

Okay, so how about... Yeah, so Azkaban as is, but without the Dementors. Yeah, what's the issue? So can I... So everyone's got no wands, right? Yeah, broken. We've got a big old pile of broken wands in the sea So can I mute people?

What do you mean? Like I'm magically muting them Yeah, I'll allow that Okay, because is most spells by voice? No, you can just think them and they happen There's so many dumb rules for fucking magic Yeah, think about in the first Harry Potter Before Harry even knows he's a wizard

He talks to that snake and he makes a thing. The glass goes away. Breaks a pot. Just like, hey snake, what's going on? I broke that pot. What's that mean? Did you get pot because his last name is Potter? Is that where your thought process went?

You're an idiot. That would be dumb. I think I was thinking of Dobby breaking a cake. Which is still not a pot. Okay, so I'm going to silence you so you can't do vocal spells. Okay. Okay. Mine is still better.

Our combined idea that you bailed on for some reason. Because of ethical reasons. What ethical reasons? So many. You are... Okay, so you'd be happy with our prison system if once you went in, they injected you with something so that you were paralyzed until you came out again?

If everyone was capable of murdering everyone in the prison just by But what if old manslaughter Joel over here came to your prison to seek out the same treatment? I'm a prisoner in my own body. That's terrifyingly That's so much worse than... Well, it's almost like being in prison! No,

but this is... In prison you go into the yard, you have your meals. And do you think in Azkaban they have a yard? I would hope so. I would think so. There's definitely not. Then that's just also unethical. Azkaban is not quite minimum security or maximum security.

It's just a lot of solitary. Because the problem with Azkaban is people can break in and out like that. Why are you allowed visitors in Azkaban? It's like, ooh, we're all dark and scary, but bring your nan. Okay. One way I'd in Azkaban? It's like, ooh, world dark and scary, but bring your nan. Okay. One way I'd fix Azkaban. Hey, nan, I fucked up. No visitors.

That's one rule. There you go. Hey, nan, I fucked up. That's a great phrase. That's my side podcast. No visitors in Azkaban. I think that's one way to fix it. It's time for an episode of Hey Nat, I fucked up.

Okay, no visitors. None of that. No prisoners. No demanders. A yard. I just, I can't, I can't. If you are magic and you want to slaughter thousands, there is literally nothing you can do except go cruel and unusual,

i.e. paralyze or use dementors because otherwise they're going to escape. I think there's actually a bigger question here. What? There's no wizard cops. No. Auroras. No, they're like wizard detectives. No, they are.

Wizard cops sounds cool I'm on board I'll let you explain yourself So if you're an aura your job is to Hunt down dangerous wizards You're more like a bounty hunter You're not just like running a beat Around London making sure people don't commit Wizard crimes

Wait who comes to Harry's house when he Because remember Cornelius Fudge The fucking prime minister Of wizards Who comes to Harry's house when he... Cornelius Fudge. The fucking Prime Minister of Wizards. It's like, oh, we should send someone to Harry's. He's been using magic illegally. And they're like, send who?

And he's like, I'll go. You know how muggles have cops? What have we got? The Prime Minister. You, I guess. There's no cops in Harry Potter. It's like saying... saying Ah but the politicians are like lawyers as well So? So it's sort of like

No there's no cops that's the problem There's still no average police officers If Henry like the werewolf Just goes on a rampage Who's stopping him? Are they just assuming that every wizard Is on the same page It's like well you can either stop him from killing you

or you deserve to die. It's almost as though the reason the wizarding world is so fucking dangerous is because nobody's scared of any kind of justice. They know that either you get away with it, which is the most likely option, or you go to Azkaban when it's just a hell. And if you are going to Azkaban, it's just a hell and if you are going to azkaban it's

probably for something pretty terrible not manslaughter like so where does the manslaughter wizard go he just gets away with it are you sure i feel that there should be another well i don't like a minimum security i don't think there is you don't even get a fine they're not like give me your galleons like what What possible prison could hold a wizard? Yeah, so that's the thing. At all. I know that we've crossed this point, but I've tried to say it like four times.

I'm going to bring it up now because there's a little bit of a gap. There's a lull. I feel like Dementors were the natural progression because having normal guards in a wizard prison would just end in a massacre. Yeah. Hey, do you want your spleen to be a little goose?

Well, I'm assuming that those... Goose inside you. I'm assuming that those guards would have been wizards, not just, like, minimum security fucking... No, but say you've got, like... Paul Blart Malkoff. Paul Blart Malkoff. Kevin James with a goose inside him.

Like, imagine you're just like Tending to another prisoner And in the cell behind you you hear someone mutter something And you just feel this goose Yeah goose is icicus Oh no Not the goose Breaks out of your chest alien style

And wanders off Geese are dumb What a terrible thing to happen to you Just lying there bleeding out as this goose waddles away like an idiot shits on the ground it like flaps its wings like an idiot it doesn't go anywhere this whole I'm terrified of the wizard

because there's no justice there is no justice if there was any there would be a sort of other thing that wasn't Azkaban for like minor petty crimes so I guess the issue isn't even It's just that there's no cops because there's no punishment If you can't like steal or take away someone's magic

there is no reason where it's like you're going arrested. Alright, I'm in jail. Look I escaped now half a dick. Goodbye. Bye! Plus I'm on the run now I guess Wizard cops can't really patrol in like cars because wizards don't drive Yeah they have brooms. You're just like a wizard in the streets of London.

Old officer sawballs. Like you're just walking or you're flying. It just doesn't make sense. If you're walking along the road and you punched another wizard in the back of the head, started a fight, the wizard cops get alerted and he pulls up in a broomstick, all the muggles are going to be like, what the fuck?

What is going on? Maybe just grab your wand and stab the dude. Yeah, I know. You can get away with pretty much anything in the wizard world. The only justice seems to come from the school that Harry's in. Also, the justice is usually like passive aggressive angry letters. Yeah.

Like for Harry, don't do magic, you'll get expelled. What are they going to do when I'm like 28 stabbing people with my wand? Yeah. What happens if Harry gets expelled and keeps using magic? Yeah. They're going to be like, well, we're out of punishments. Ask a man.

Is that just like it? Is there nothing else for the wizards? Because that's a huge fucking problem. Wizards are just off the chain. Like, you can't do anything. Wizards are off the chain. That's another one of my side podcasts. Wizards can do fucking whatever they

want. I don't like this. I am very upset. It's either absolute torture or getting off scot-free. That's what you get. Those are your options. It's a gamble every time you commit a crime. Is it just that they're all sort of self-policing because if you fuck up then there might be a wizard who's gonna just attack you anyway like is that like a dog eat dog wizard

wizard eat wizard world wizard hit wizard world harry and a thump and good one is it that because i honestly can't think of another explanation. What stops us from going out and just locking a guy is again, I guess, our own morals but also punishment. Mostly just cops. And guns are hard to get.

Wizards have wands all the time. Wizards have wands all the time. And they could probably get off scot-free. The Time Lord is like, I killed a dude. I killed my dad. I'm going to transfigure his whole skeleton body into a bone. The Time Lord?

You meant Bodycrouch Junior. That's the one. Okay, good. We just look at each other like, what is this? Bodycrouch Junior, he kills his own dad. He's like, looking at each other like, what is this? Barney Crouch Jr., he like, kills his own dad, he's like, gotta hide that. Just gonna like, yeah, transfigure that into a bone.

And that's fine. How do you tell if someone's been Avada Kedavra'd or if they've just died of natural causes? Also, if you kill anyone, just transfigure them into anything, and you're fine. How good, though, would as a TV show, like, they look at Muggles and they're fine how good though as a TV show like they look at Muggles and they're like we need wizard

cops and so they like get the first wizard police force and they just have no idea what they're doing like they find a corpse and it's like how did he die they're like Avada Kedavra they're like no he's no WCPD wizards cop police department strangle marks on all of his neck I guess

did somebody do a spell he's got this hole in his chest and blood's coming out of it that's a bullet wound wizards cop police department strangle marks on all of his neck I guess some sort of enchantment he's got this hole in his chest and blood's coming out of it that's a bullet wound a bullet? a what? a what wound? and a thumping good one do you mean a spell wound?

what happens if a wizard yeah gets a gun starts shooting people the rest of the wizards are going to be like I don't know what to do What happens if a wizard gets a gun and starts shooting people? The rest of the wizards are going to be like, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. Wizards are fucked!

It's not a problem with Azkaban. It's a problem with fucking wizards. Wizard cops and another prison. Two easy solutions. Look into it, wizards. From us to you, look into it. Look into it. Just find something.

Maybe, again, a stilling thing where you can take away their magic, I guess, would be the best situation. Find out what organ makes the magic. Yep. Chop it off. Take it out. Probably the spleen. Turn the spleen into a goose.

Yes. On that note, I've been Joel. I've been Jackson. I've been Joel, and I'm utterly terrified of the wizarding world now commit crimes and check me out of my side podcasts wizards off the chain wizards off the chain and hey nan i fucked up god i god if you think this show is worth at least a dollar why not donate to our patreon account God, I... God.