Rates & Barrels - The Difference A Week Makes

Episode Date: August 7, 2020

Eno, DVR & Britt discuss the change that has taken place in the span of a week, socially distanced celebrations, the difficulty of breaking life-long habits on the field, the Braves' rotation following Mike Soroka's season-ending injury, and more. Rundown1:39 How Much Have Things Changed In A Week?6:37 Nick Markakis Walk-Off & Socially Distanced Celebration11:25 Ryan Christenson’s Apparent Straight-Arm Nazi Salute16:50 Players Trying to Break Habits22:05 Energy & Clubhouse Chemistry31:21 Mike Soroka’s Season-Ending Injury38:26 It’s Never Too Early in a 60-game Season to Talk About the Trade Deadline41:28 More Prospects On the Way?46:02 Eno’s Problems Get Worse Follow Eno on Twitter: @enosarrisFollow Britt on Twitter: @Britt_GhiroliFollow DVR on Twitter: @DerekVanRiperE-mail: [e-mail] Get 40% off a subscription to The Athletic: theathletic.com/ratesandbarrels Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today's episode of Rates and Barrels is brought to you by The Athletic. We've got a special 40% off subscription deal right now at theathletic.com slash ratesandbarrels. Get all of our MLB coverage, our fantasy baseball coverage, get Brits Nationals coverage, Eno's articles about pitching, everything we do, including coverage of other sports from the NBA bubble in Orlando, the dual bubble system for the NHL. We got an EPL transfer window open right now and we have an nfl season that's about four weeks away from trying to get off the ground as well so get 40 off at theathletic.com slash rates and barrels Welcome to Rates and Barrels, episode number 122.

It is Friday, August 7th. Derek Van Ryper, Eno Saris, Britt Giroli here with you on this Friday. On this episode, we're going to talk about some things that seem to be quite a bit better than they were just one week ago. I mean, I feel like when we spoke last Friday, I thought baseball season was on the brink of ending. I wasn't sure if we'd get to Monday and still have games being played Monday night. And I'm a little bit relieved that we at least got there. And it kind of seems like in terms of managing the pandemic

and getting teams back on the field, MLB at least put it back together for the time being. And the level of ease has kind of been back to normal. I kind of feel like we're tracking towards getting through a 60-game season. And I probably would have bet against it literally seven days ago. So, Britt, I want to start with you. Like, how different do things feel now than they did a week ago? Yeah, I mean, it feels almost like that was a year ago at this point in time, guys.

I think a few things. One, you look at what Rob Manfred said, and it seems pretty apparent that no matter what happens, we're pushing on here, right? We're forging on, whether there's another outbreak or not. I think that was probably the singular most important thing was him. You know, obviously he should have maybe had a press conference. He should maybe speak to the media rather than just give one throwaway line to call Ravitch. But we can fill a whole podcast with the PR disaster that is Rob Manfred. But I do think that him kind of saying like, we're going to play, you started to see that shift from like all the players and it kind of

became like, all right, we're in it. Like you're either going to play or you're not going to play as a player, but the MLB season is going to continue to go on barring something super catastrophic. It seems very clear. They're not scared of double digit numbers. they're not scared of double-digit numbers. They're not scared of teams shutting down. They don't care if they have to play 42 double-headers to end this thing.

They're going to find a way to get to the playoffs and get to that playoff money. Yeah, you know, definitely team callous, like callous disregard for people's health and well-being, the way that he phrased that. The other thing that kind of sticks out for me is that I feel like, you know, the things that this like revised protocols that we're doing now where it's like, you know, oh, we're going to wear masks in the dugout and we're going to wear masks in the clubhouse. It's like, duh, dude.

Like we had this thing where we're like, oh, you can't spit. And everybody ignored it because it was too much. It was too far. But the things that we should have been more strict on, we weren't. We were just like, oh, yeah, please stay in the hotel. Exactly. So I don't know. It seems like maybe it's just hindsight.

It's 2020. Maybe we're just backbiting. I will give credit that all of this seems unprecedented. That's a word of the time, you know, these unprecedented times. How many times do you have to hear that? At the same time, looking back, it seems really obvious that we should have had these protocols in place. we should have had these protocols in place. And it's kind of bad, I think, that it required all this nonsense

to get to these better protocols. And so, you know, we've been here for a little bit now and we haven't had that third team outbreak, right? We had the Marlins and the Cardinals and then we have these new, we're waiting for that third shoe to drop, I guess. And it hasn't happened yet. And I think that's why we feel this sense of like, okay, we're waiting for that third shoe to drop, I guess, and it hasn't happened yet. I think that's why we feel this sense of like, okay, we can finish it.

But I think as soon as a third team does it and the schedule gets another hit, then we're going to be talking about this again because I don't know how much more you can fit into the schedule. I've seen this updated schedule, and there's a point at which the Phillies and Marlins play seven games in five days. That seems like it's sustainable, right? Like, tack on a couple more doubleheaders.

You can't. That's maximum capacity. Like, what if the Phillies are the next outbreak? Then they're gonna have to play, like, 15 games in, like, eight days or something? The schedule at the end is already about as packed as it can be.

They've taken as many body punches. The schedule has taken as many body punches as it can take. And I don't know that there's a lot more body punches in there. The thing that kind of is funny is like, is it going to be like spring training where you have an A team and a B team

playing two different teams at once? Like, is that what it's going to come down to? Split squad, baby! Exactly. I don't know how you fit it in otherwise. I agree with you. The new rules, most of them are needed. Some of them, though, are just kind of funny when you think about it in a different context.

The fact that guys can eat together but not face each other. I would love to see a photo of guys eating, socially distant, and turned opposite of each other. That is 2020, right? Eating their boxed lunches, everything individually wrapped, basically drinking the hand sanitizer. Not recommended. Dr. Sarah says do not drink the hand sanitizer.

Yikes. I mean, it is weird. I see pictures on The Athletic. There's one on Andy McCullough's article from today, and I think it's Vlad Jr. putting hand sanitizer in the hands of Danny Jansen, right? It's just like guys doing these extra little things to help each other out.

I saw the celebration from the Atlanta Braves. They had Nick Markakis hit a walk-off homer in his first game back, which is weird. Like, he opted back in amidst the chaos at the beginning of the week, and he hits a walk-off home run. But what we finally saw was a celebration that looked like a social distancing celebration from the Braves. We saw the whole team kind of come out to greet him, except they stood around the dirt and were air-fiving fiving with him and i thought that's kind of what this should look like in a pandemic so aside from the sheer like weirdness of the nick bar cake is opting back in and then homering to walk it off in his first game back we saw a little bit of tangible progress in terms of

reactions on the field that were pretty troubling overall in the last couple of weeks why were they high-fiving they were hitting home runs and then like going into the dugout and just basically like tongue kissing i mean that's that's how it felt like in the time of covid i'm like whoa whoa like whoa. I just think it's such a hard habit for them to break, right? Most of them have been playing baseball since they were like four or five years old. And you're now telling them to stop doing something that's so ingrained in them. Right? So I was trying to think of like what that would be like for us.

Like stop transcribing. Stop. I don't know. Like stop. Like there's nothing we do. Stop using the em dash. Oh, I love the em dash so much. You guys don't understand. It's's nothing we do. Stop using the M-Dash. Oh, I love the M-Dash so much. You guys don't understand.

It's my favorite crutch. There's so many like, I don't know, like the first thing I noticed when I went to the grocery store is like those plastic bags for fruit and veggies. I used to just like lick my fingers and then open them. They're annoying. They're so tough to open without it. Right. So one of the biggest problems that I just came from Trader Joe's, so the struggle is real.

The biggest problem is getting that open, right? You can no longer do that because you're wearing a mask. So I kind of think about it like that. I read to the kids, right? And I think we even had some friends over that had kids. And I was trying to read to them and tearing the pages without licking my fingers. I was like, I probably shouldn't do that right now. It's like more spit in the world around kids that are already swab spit.

But the one thing that disappoints me is that no one has the foresight to kind of be like, oh, this is going to be a big deal. We're asking them not to spit. This is a really big deal. It's not just like, oh, we're just asking them not to spit and they'll do it. No, this is going to be a big deal. We're asking them not to spit. This is a really big deal. It's not just like, oh, we're just asking them not to spit and they'll do it. No, this is going to be a really big deal. They're not going to high five. It's a big deal.

We could have a presentation or we could have a person that kind of goes around. We could have a Zoom call. Hey, we have Zoom calls all the time. We could have a Zoom call with different PR guys or different around we have a zoom call hey we have zoom calls all the time we give a zoom call with uh different pr guys with pr guys from or different uh coaches from the from the different teams and be like okay guys i want you to like foment a new way of celebrating on your team just come up with

something don't we have these things remember the right now there's the mustache in oakland uh when matt olsen hits a homer does the mustache with his finger but remember when prince fielder did that awesome celebration with the with the brewers where he like ran onto the plate and then they all pretended like a bomb exploded like that would actually be an appropriate socially distancing one like they're not you could actually do that without like getting too close to each other so I would be like hey let's like lean into this and like create like this idea that this is gonna be year where we had the craziest celebrations the weirdest celebrations like the Giants even had the like basically the yes yes yes celebration

from the wrestler or whatever. And they all like sort of, they all sort of jumped around pointing their fingers up going, yes, yes, yes. Without touching each other. It was hilarious looking. So I would have, I would have like tried to get out in front of some of these things and be like, Oh, like, so for example,

now there's news coming out that like teams are kind of trying to do more for their players to keep them in the hotels. Right. Duh! Like, what were you doing the first week? You were just like, please don't leave the hotel. I know there's nothing to do here. What they should have done has been like, hey, we've set up a video game tournament,

you know, and we bought each of you guys a PS3. Like, come on. In the course of baseball, like, buying each of your players a PS3. Come on. In the course of baseball, buying each of your players a PS3 is not that incredible. It's not that much of a... Whatever it is. I don't even know. It's probably a PS8 by now.

I'm not a video gamer. You buy them some sort of video game platform and you create a big tournament and you get them all into it and that's something they can do and not leave their rooms. Or like a movie watching thing where you all kind of zoom and watch a movie together uh like major league or something but like think about what you're asking out of these people and do something about it other than just being like uh you can't leave you know we put a

monitor out in the hallway right right there needs to be more proactive yeah you're exactly. Why couldn't the league have been like, here are some celebration ideas. Here are some suggestions for what happens. Because when you don't and guys get caught in the moment, they're either going to break the rules or they're going to do something like we saw last night with the Oakland A's, which was obviously an absolute nightmare. I can't believe that we transitioned to that. It's so weird. This is a problem. If you don't give people good ideas, they have bad ideas. Exactly.

I don't know what the hell Ryan Christensen was thinking, if he wasn't thinking, or what happened. But what happened was he made a straight-arm Nazi salute after the A's won. In their celebration, Liam Hendricks pushed his arm down and tried to explain to him, like, no, you can't do that. Christensen released a statement. The A's released a statement. It shouldn't take a team or a league telling you what you can and can't do to celebrate to not do that.

That's inexcusable all the time, without exception. I just don't know how you get there. I don't understand that at all. I can't tell. See, he's made some explanations that, like, you know, Liam has been doing a karate chop. And so he thought this, it doesn't look like a karate chop, but he said it was like a karate chop. And then there was a lot of people saying it's just like a middle finger or something, you know. But, like, I don't know, man.

I'm German. Like, I literally came to this country from Germany. In Germany, they banned that gesture. Like Like it is illegal to make that gesture. And I understand that we have a different, uh, relationship with speech here and we don't ban gestures, but you know, there also been people kind of telling me that I'm taking this too seriously. And this is just, uh, just a mistake and I'm being offended too easily. I have to tell you, there is only one offensive gesture.

Like, I cannot think of any other gesture that would offend me. Like, does a middle finger offend me? No. You know? Right. The other, you know, the other sort of vafunkula, like those kind of gestures,

like that doesn't offend me. This is the only one i can think of and and it's so not cool that like if my arm even started going close to that sort of i'd there be all these alarms and i just i you know i think maybe it's just a failure of sort of like either cultural knowledge or historical knowledge or, you know, it has to be a failure of some sort to make that mistake. I think because like, I can't even put my arm anywhere near that without my brain being,

yo, no, don't do it. Don't do it. Yeah. I mean, my two biggest things are one, he did it more than once.

Right. So the first time it's like, oh shit, like totally didn't mean to do that. It was trying to like, don't know what we can and can't do. I get there a little out of their element. Like we were saying, they can't high five. They can't hug first time it's like oh shit like totally didn't mean to do that was trying like don't know what we can and can't do i get they're a little out of their element like we were saying they can't high five they can't hug first time okay but the second time how does it happen again and then how does nobody shut it down after the first time and be like dude what were you doing i think liam

hendrix was kind of doing that i mean it takes a lot for a player to tell a coach hey don't do that right you know that's a difference in power structure. You don't normally tell the coaches what to do. Yeah. Right. Right. So it was just like, I don't know.

It was kind of a nightmare as you know, it was all about over Twitter last night. And you know, then it sort of becomes like this viral thing where people are trying to determine the intent and it's impossible for anybody to know what the intent was. I do just kind of lean toward you, you know,

where it's like, okay, if you're doing that and that's something that quickly comes to mind have you done it before is it a learned mechanism yeah like like yeah why or why didn't you learn that this is not cool at all like what where was the missing like this is not cool knowledge and you know if you made the mistake the first time fine then just run away and prepare your statement. But don't like turn to them and be like, look, I did the sneak aisle here.

I'm going to do it again. Right. So I don't know. It seems like it was too funny for him in that moment. I don't know. Yeah. It's sort of like, you know, when people say, well, I was drunk. I didn't mean to make all those racist or sexist comments.

It's like, well, being drunk doesn't make you do things out of the ordinary it might make your character a little more one way but you don't just invent these new mechanisms right it just lets it out right exactly it just makes you more you know kind of uninhibited a little bit to some extent and that's the same thing that they they deal with in the dugout right that's the place where they feel like they can be themselves and they can let loose. And you see it before with guys breaking bats, going up the tunnels so they don't want the cameras to see them.

I think they forget all eyes are on them. And that was a huge example last night. Right, especially in those celebratory moments, right? Like people just lose it. When I'm drunk, I touch my nipples, you know? Like I don't do like racist gestures gestures you know but uh i also yeah like every once in a while you do uh you do like as a fan uh you you will you notice what you're talking about that like the players are think they're in their own world and sometimes forget

that everybody's watching them like especially like in spring i'm thinking of like we were listening to a bullpen entire bullpens conversation in spring one time and they i don't know if they i think they just forgot that we were there they definitely did they just i don't even know what they said or what you're about to say but clearly they didn't know anyone was listening i didn't i don't want to i don't want to tell you what they were saying. I'll just say it was like wildly inappropriate. We can all hear you. Yeah. I mean, look, there are habits that players fall back into. And this is not about Ryan Christians. This is more the broad just reactions of players. This is why when the Pirates walked off the Twins, they were high-fiving. They ran up to Kevin Newman and knocked him down. And it was like, no, stop high-fiving each other.

You guys have to be better. You get kind of overwhelmed by the moment in sport. I think Doug Glanville had a piece on The Athletic about this. There are so many habits these guys have ingrained in themselves over decades of playing baseball. High-fives, spitting seeds, spitting in general. All these things are just habit to them. Spitting is impossible, man. I run. And, you know, I've thought about like trying not to spit. And basically, I just spend like 20 minutes with spit in my mouth thinking, when can I spit this out?

So I'm really glad to know that Eno touches his nipples when he's drunk. So I'm going to let everyone on the podcast know if it ever happens. Because you guys deserve to know. That's actually, it's the canary in the coal mine. If you see me touching my nipples, call the Uber. Call the Uber. The night is over. That's funny. You know what's interesting, though, guys, is I have a friend who covers the NFL.

He covers Tom Brady. that's funny you know what's interesting though guys is i have a friend who covers the nfl um he covers tom brady and they gave them the press these little devices that buzz when you get within six feet of someone which i mean you can't do that in baseball right but it's like that good constant reminder of like oh can't get too close to someone um obviously we don't have that in mlb but i thought it was pretty, even at the press level, to have that constant, like, hey, too close. It just buzzes and goes off, which is pretty cool. I bet the Astros had it. Yeah, more proactive thinking like that. Why not just foment this idea of, oh, you're the Pirates. What could be a cool Pirate celebration?

What could we do that looks like Pirates or something? You know what like what what could we do that like looks like pirates or something or you know what I mean? Like just try to like think out loud and get them thinking about positive ways to avoid these problems. So, I mean, like, come on, like, you know, doing something in the hotel to make them make it better that they don't leave is just so obvious. I can't believe we're just getting to it. I bet we can solve the pirate celebration problem in 45 seconds between the three of us if i were a member of the pittsburgh pirates and celebrating a walk-off i would pretend as though i were loading up a cannon and fire the cannon there you know i would like pretend to

like fall back from the kickback of the cannon right like that's that's what i would do right i mean that's suitable that's what pirates would do, right? I mean, that's suitable. That's what pirates do. Yeah, yeah. Or, like, maybe some sword fighting. Yeah, sword fighting would be good. How about you, Britt? You got another one?

I mean, I'd probably faint because the pirates don't have anything to celebrate. The season's already over for them. There's not many teams. It's a little harder when you're, like, the nationals. I mean, yeah, they don't really have an easy celebration. Yeah, but they did these dances last year, and they've just kind of carried it over,

and they're already socially distant. A guy just dances down the dugout line. That's right, that's right. They've actually got this built-in socially distant celebration, which is good. That's good. I forgot about the dance. They could all line up and do the car thing.

The car thing is really cool. That's a great celebration. I like that one. Yeah. Yeah. Both of those guys, Adam Eaton and Howie Kendrick, who,

who do the, the car thing, which is from Talladega nights, I believe, right from that movie, um, the Ricky Bobby movie. Um,

they're both big car guys, so it really fits. Um, and they have a blast with it. So the Nats have, you know, they're also a bunch of old guys, so they really couldn't handle too much running around. And I think a lot of guys were like 35 plus. They had to sit down for their celebration.

Steven Strasburg finally dancing for the first time. That's what I think of when you say they're old guys. They're all a bunch of awkward guys, too, like Steven Stburg dancing you're like oh boy maybe him at his wedding you know did strasburg grow up in the town from footloose he does not have many moves like no you could tell definitely some awkward old guy dancing like ryan's ever been offed out but like he has another one you know there's definitely a hierarchy when it comes to dugout dance moves, I think. Some of these younger guys embrace it, and these older guys are like, what's the dougie?

They're just trying to catch up. Dude, the way Soto celebrates takes, I'm sure he's got some moves. I would love to see more of his dancing. As you might know, we've got cool t-shirts here on Rates and Bar we need better mugs so we're going to dugout mugs dugout mugs is a company that was started in a college baseball dugout hence the name dugout mugs they take the barrel of a baseball bat and turn it into a 12 ounce mug dugout mugs are licensed by major league baseball so you can have your favorite team logo laser engraved onto a birch wood baseball bat barrel mug. They're perfect for the big game to put on display or to be the life of the party.

And they make a great unique gift for any baseball fan in your life. Go to dugoutmugs.com slash the athletic and use the promo code MLB30 for 30% off your first purchase. That's dugoutmugs.com slash the athletic and code MLB 30 you know it's Eaton was actually in the news a little bit um I think like was it Ozzie Guillen like randomly said like no no one liked you in Chicago recently Swisher it was Swisher oh yeah yeah I mean Adam Eaton has gotten a lot of flack with Todd Frazier. Yeah. For saying that nobody liked you in Chicago.

That's like a regular feud, I guess, between the two of them. Eric's dying. It's the worst feud ever. Eaton said that about Frazier, too. So they both didn't claim that nobody liked them. Yeah, they both have gone back and forth with this. And then last year in New York, when Frazier was there, they were kind of exchanging heated barbs.

But through the media, though, of course, that's how the tough guys really do it. And Eaton said something like, I don't want a mortgage, like pointing at the money he's made. And then, of course, like Sean Doolittle, who's this deep thinker, is like, actually, a mortgage is really financially responsible. He's like, what is this? Like, I just want to cover baseball. It's like, what is this? Like, I just want to cover baseball. It's like April, you know,

you're like, you can't. But yeah, Ozzie Guillen went on about Nick Swisher, who I have heard can be a bit of a phony guy. Although as you guys, it's a Cheshire cat. It's a Cheshire cat grin.

Like I've, I've interviewed him a lot and it's, it's kind of a mutt at a lot. The Cheshire cat where you're just like of phony guys. It's a Cheshire Cat grin. Like, I've interviewed him a lot, and it's kind of a lot. The Cheshire Cat, where you're just like, this is way too much smile, man. Turn it down. We're just talking baseball here. I covered him in 09. Everything is like, dude, bro, yeah.

Nick Swisher. Yeah, bro. And like, yeah, like the Yankees were good in 09, so it was even worse. Like, they had like a wrestling belt from A.J. Burnett where they were rotated all around. Oh, God. And Swisher went to Ohio State, and he'd be like, yeah, like I went to Michigan State. He'd be like, yeah, bro, Big Ten.

Everything is so punctuated and so over the top that you're like, this has got to be orchestrated, right? He's got to go home and be just absolutely horrific because he's been so over-the-top energetic happy. You have to go home and just like be just absolutely horrific because he's been so like over the top energetic. Right. Like there's you have to go home and crash. You know, like I'm not really sure. There's got to be a moment where the smile is gone and it's and he's just like, I want to talk to anybody. Dad's going to his room. You know, bro, let's talk OBP. And you're just like, I can't. It's like I interviewed Ray Lewis this winter,

and it felt like I was in the middle of one of his speeches. You know, everything is so like, Brittany, yeah, let's go. And you're like, man, I'm either going to like go like run laps or like run through a wall after this because Ray Lewis just keeps like everything he says, he says in his Ray Lewis voice. And it's this big persona. So, okay, let's think about this real quick. Who is the most energetic player, I guess you could say, or coach or bench person that you've ever covered?

And the first player who came to my mind when you're talking about Swisher is probably a former teammate. I think he overlapped Eric Burns at some point. Like, Eric Burns on TV brings too much. And I mean this in a nice way. Like, I'm not trying to rip the guy, but he's at, like, a 15 for his baseline. And they lean into that a lot on the shows that he was on. Is he the most energetic player you've ever covered, Eno? Can you top that?

Because he's off the charts. A.J. Burnett was underrated energetic in that he bounced around the clubhouse. He was in everybody's face. And I think it was actually in a good way. Some people hated him, but it united a lot of the clubhouses he was in, I thought, because he would interact with everybody. he would interact with everybody. Like he was not,

there's often like a schism in clubhouses where it's kind of like Hispanic versus the white guys or whatever. And Burnett was one of those guys that was equally annoying to everybody. That's fitting in, right? So he kind of

did this weird thing where he brought clubhouses together with all of them being like shut up aj yeah i mean nick swisher's got to be up there but that would be an interesting like all energy team that would just be an interesting like what do you do when you get all these guys together you know like there was a lot of relievers like you said a lot of relievers are kind of weird like there was a guy, I think his name was Will Smith, maybe? Not the lefty. No.

Maybe it wasn't Will Smith. It was Will something. And everyone hated him. He was so energetic. It was that same thing. It was like they rallied around the fact that this guy just would never shut up. And Adam Jones had good energy, and he kind of grew into that role of being energetic. Johnny Gomes is another guy who had tons of energy, who I covered in Tampa Bay.

And he was like energy, but everyone liked him. And I think it's a fine line, right, between being that team cheerleader and not being so annoying that they're all like, shut up. We've lost four games in a row. Nobody wants to hear your nonsense. I think there's a very fine line. Good for a good team. And then it could be disastrous for a bad team.

I wonder what the Eaton energy is. I wonder what it is that rubs so many people the wrong way. I will say that like maybe it's Northern California or it's just these teams, but the Giants and A's are the most mellow teams like ever. And it's actually been kind of true for like 10 years. And so there's been a lot of different people who come in that clubhouse. Like,

you know, Pablo Sandoval is not mellow. So he's, he's actually comes to mind as an energetic person that people love that kind of brought clubhouses together. Um, and he's been good, but like the general tone in the Giants clubhouse is almost somber you know it's just

very workmanlike it's just like we are all veterans here and this is what we do and let's get the work done and and like sometimes even kids will come up and be like whoo I'm in the and then like somebody will go and talk to them they'll be like okay I'm gonna do my work yeah I think that's what made Swisher stand out so much in 09 because they still had Jeter and A-Rod and Rivera and guys who like kept to themselves largely. Right. A-Rod had kind of pittered out. He had gone from like that Senator, you know,

on his ceiling and all the crazy stories. And he had kind of just avoided the media. So it was very much like Nick Swisher and AJ Burnett were the energy of that team. And I mean, that is the last time they won a world series too. So I don't know. the media so it was very much like Nick Swisher and AJ Burnett were the energy of that team and I mean that is the last time they won a World Series too so I don't know maybe there's something to having a little energy especially like when you're not having a whole lot of fun doing anything else like this year I don't know yeah I mean you do need a balance like I wonder how much of the Giants clubhouse right now is just carry over from the success they had earlier in the decade like

the leadership at that time like to keep things chill. And because some of those guys are still there, it still kind of has that feel. And once Brandon Crawford is gone, for example, not saying he single-handedly dictates culture. It's Posey. Yeah. Once Posey's gone, once those guys are out of the organization, then you can have that bigger cultural shift, right? That next wave of prospects basically brings it in. I think Mauricio Dubon is going to be one of the few people that might actually be around for the next really good Giants team. And he's very energetic in an interesting way that's just super positive, super happy to be there, always smiling, kind of Pablo Pablo esque, I guess,

with a little bit less jolliness, but just more like, like, this is really fun. And we're all we're all really blessed to be here. And I could see him maybe being sort of a flashpoint. The problem is, I just don't know if his talent level is to the point where he'll be like a starter. And it seems like leadership flows from usually your highest paid veteran position player. Because they all know what everybody makes. And the pitchers kind of live a different life. So I think it was really awkward in the Mets clubhouse. One of the worst clubhouses I've ever covered was the Mets clubhouse where Matt Harvey was the de facto leader. Billy Wagner was the guy that was talking to media. And Carlos Delgado was not talking to

media. And he was kind of maybe in that position of the highest paid veteran position player. So it just created this vacuum. And then Harvey did this leadership, this anti-media leadership, where he's basically like, don't talk to the media. Don't anybody talk to the media. And Billy Wagner was the only one. And there would be times where they would,

people would go after a game and go talk to Billy Wagner. He'd be like, why are you talking to me? I didn't pitch tonight. And they'd just be like, nobody else will talk to us. Can you just give us some quote about the guy who did pitch tonight? Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're right in that it's like always the highest paid players. But which is unfortunate because a lot of the younger guys we're seeing now

like are not afraid to let loose, right? And you're kind of seeing a little more energy in those celebrations. But like a lot of guys are taught like, you know, like shut up. You're young. This isn't your team yet. And you kind of have to grow into that role. That certainly the case with you know like adam jones they were he wanted to be a leader right away and you can't be a leader when you're new and you're young and you're not really ready for it but you are like akuna and soto and some of these guys are just

so fun to watch right um these younger guys and i mean speaking of the braves though the the soroka injury did you guys watch that i mean i was watching it not live but like on tv and that the achilles is such a like you know like a gut punch you know you're watching it you're like that's no ankle sprain that popped yeah i mean it's like personally i've had some Achilles tendonitis that, you know, the pod listeners have heard about before. But with some yoga and some muscle activation technique and some stuff, I'm pretty good on it. But it is like apparently a thing that happens to people in their 40s, especially. And it's something that is totally gross and super painful. And you can feel the tendon kind of tendon kind of roll up in your leg when it happens. And that is like a nightmare to me.

So I feel terrible for him. And it's just amazing looking at this team that they're 9-5. You know, they're atop their division, sort of. I mean, the Marlins. Don't sleep on them. Yeah, we'll get to the marlins in a minute what a what a strange twist from where they were just just a week six and one dude that's so hilarious but weird it helps playing the orioles look at the starting rotation it came into the season with

like felix hernandez and cole hamels and all these veterans and and they thought and we thought okay the the young guys will have to make up the fifth role, right? Like, they've got veterans one through four, and we'll just have to find out if Newcomb or one of these other guys. Now, they've got Max Freed, and it's all the young guys are in there. Kyle Wright has got a spot. Sean Newcomb is like, write him down in pen. And Tukey Toussaint looks looks good so maybe that's okay but it with Bryce Wilson or somebody else moving in like it's so many unknowns you only have you

know that used to be spawn insane and spray for pray for rain this is like freed and freed and who else yeah I mean, is there a season where depth has been more important than this one, though? I mean, you looked at the Braves and you kind of knew

they were always going to be good for a while just because their AAA was stacked. You're seeing that now with the depth and that's something where they're better

than the Nationals. The Nationals minor league system is ravaged really at this point. It's like they're all here now. This is it. The Braves have such a strong feeder system that these young guys that they, you know, Nationals minor league system is ravaged really at this point. It's like here, they're all here now. This is it. Um, the Braves have such a strong feeder system that these young guys that they,

you know, barring injury should be good for a while. And what does it say that they can lose a guy like Soroka and kind of, at least for now, absorb it, you know, I mean, getting Marquecas back was big.

I don't think people understand watching Nick Marquecas, how consistent that guy is, how hard it is to do what he's done over his career. Um, I watched him every day for a long time and he always just seems to be hitting right around 300. He's, it seems like he's constantly on base. Um, I think he was a big part of their team, a big part of like veteran, um, leadership on that team. I think getting him back certainly kind of helped them as well. Uh, but the Braves are just, they're just a really, really good team. And it's the Soroka thing is unfortunate. I think getting him back certainly kind of helped them as well. But the Braves are just, they're just a really, really good team. And the Soroka thing is unfortunate. I know

watching Zach Britton go down, it took him about six months to come back. So you're looking at maybe spring training for next year. You don't ever want to say this is a good season to miss, but isn't this a good season to miss guys? If you're going to miss a season of baseball, if you have to go down with an injury, it's like, well, at least I'm not out there in a pandemic anymore. That's the silver lining, I guess. And I think it's going to be interesting to see just how much they get out of Newcomb and Wright. I know Toussaint pitched really well in his last start. I'm curious to see what Bryce Wilson and possibly Ian Anderson can give them.

But I think we touched on it just a little bit on Thursday. They seem like a team that has to go out and make a trade, right? They have World Series aspirations and they have the prospect depth to go out and get what they need. I think the question we keep coming back to is how many teams are going to be willing to trade starting pitching away? I mean, 16 teams get into the playoffs. Is that enough of a carrot for teams that previously might have been clear sellers to hang around and maybe not trade pieces away? Out of that depth, what happens? Let's say you think from your scouting or whatever that if Matt Boyd just threw his change up more often, he'd be really good. Or if you got him away from teams that have seen him in a slider over and over again, he'd be really good. You're like, okay, we like Matt Boyd, and the price is your pitching depth. And they want Bryce Wilson and Ian Anderson, which I don't think is too much of an ask necessarily

because there are multiple years left on Matt Boyd's team control, and Bryce Wilson and Ian Anderson have not really shown it yet at the Major League level. If you do that, then all of a sudden you have... And then Matt Boyd goes down. Now you don't have Wilson, anderson or boyd and you've you've you've killed your depth and you're now you're waiting on hamels to come back like there's no tomorrow or or you're signing faulty back uh so i don't like the the trading depth away for

for something right now seems almost as scary as not trading. You know what I mean? Yeah. Maybe they should just go at it with these young guys and hope these guys pop and know that they have the depth to kind of continue. I don't know. The one thing that we have brought up is maybe trading Austin Riley

because he's a major league position player and he can get you a lot uh and they have camargo and culberson and can just kind of find their way through at third base after that yeah i mean if you're the you're like a younger team like the padres of the white socks who have both been exciting right now like you you kind of go for it right or you at least stay in it um and see you have. What do you do if you're the Marlins? Can you guys name me five Marlins that are currently on the team? I watched them play last night and couldn't name five of them. Same thing with the Orioles.

And not on the DL, right? Yeah, not on the DL. Because I can name some of the guys on the DL. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Guys who played last night. Can you name me five of them? I'll try. We're fantasy guys.

We should be able to do this. Pablo Lopez, Brian Anderson. They made it through. I'm at two. John Birdie. Louis Brinson got called up, right? Brinson's up. John Birdie's up. Monty Harrison's up. He played last night and ran into a wall. Look at Derek go. We did five.

Jesus Aguilar is still out there. There you go. Corey Dickerson too right cory dickerson yeah we were just talking about him yesterday but um you know i i the other thing is i think that's a good point out the the tigers are five and five and uh the marlins are six and one and it's yes it might seem like it... What was your line about the trade deadline, Bryn? I mean, it's never too early in a 60-game season to talk about the trade deadline.

I mean, you've only played seven games. No worries. No worries. But also, maybe the Tigers would be like, hey, we're 5-5. Let's keep this going. I think they should at least consider it with pitching development.

I've been kind of beating this drum going back to the time things shut down. I think if you are a major league team and you're worried about service time of a pitcher in particular for 2027, you're getting a little too far ahead of yourself. It's more important to develop your pitchers correctly, to get them competitive innings, to build them up so that way they're on a schedule that looks like a normal schedule going into 2021 and the added bonus if you're the tigers is you could make the playoffs that young pitching if it clicks quickly might be good enough for them to hang around 500 and all you got to do is get there all you have to do is get to the postseason if they're hanging around 500 at the deadline maybe they're a surprise team that actually goes out and makes a trade or two we know it's easy to get cheap veteran bats especially like corner outfield bats that's actually a weakness on this team like the areas they get upgrade for next to nothing are areas where they need upgrades and the thing that

they have is young pitching that's what most teams want so i just for the sake of baseball and effort and trying i just want the tigers to do the right thing and bring up scooble and bring up manning and bring up mys and see what those guys can do because i think they might be good enough already to help keep that team in the race yeah i mean everyone should try because there are no locks this year right you're just one week away from like your team getting a outbreak of covid and then all of a sudden you have to house up and get a second team basically um i mean the yankees have been terrific with Garrett Cole, and everyone else has been absolute garbage in that rotation.

I mean, what are the Red Sox, right? There are just no actual sure things right now. So I think it'd be nice if we got a season. The Astros are hurting. Yeah. I mean, it would be nice if we got a season where there actually was, for all this crazy, weird, messed up stuff happening, this almost even playing field of teams just trying

because it's so messed up right now. There's no fairness. There's no rhyme or reason to any of it. Why not just have everybody try to win? What a weird concept. I think the general arrow on the trade deadline is down. I mean, I just think there's going to be less movement because of the things we're talking about.

Everyone can convince themselves they're a week away from being back in it. Are we, though, at the point where the teams that haven't brought up their prospects yet are going to start doing it? We already saw Luis Patino get the call from the Padres this week. They demoted Joey Lucchese.

Rosters got smaller on Thursday, and there were a few surprises. Lucchese was one because he's only made two starts this year. One of them was at Coors, and he got optioned down. Miguel Andujar doesn't have anywhere to play for the Yankees. I mean, I do think someone like Andujar is more likely to be traded in this season with both leagues having the DH and the fact that he's not a highly coveted prospect anymore maybe makes him more like an Austin Riley type player. I realize Riley can play a little defense and Andujar probably can

only play first base at an average level, even though he's got a great arm. But I start looking around at the prospects that aren't up right now. We just saw Joe Adele get called up this week. Dylan Carlson seems like a lock to get called up by the end of the weekend. I mean, St. Louis is missing key players right now because of COVID. And he was on track to make the opening day roster back in March. And when things got put on pause, the thought was, okay, soon after the season does begin, he's definitely up because he might've been there 10 days into the season had we started on time. So you start looking at other teams, maybe Royce Lewis, if the twins have a need,

maybe he gets a call at some point. I know for the rebuilding teams, we're not going to see Adley Rutchman. I still don't think we're going to see Joey Bart. I've got one commenter every time I write my ads and drops column who tells me it's Joey Bart week. What about Joey Bart? And I'm like, dude, why? I think he's ready. I don't think it's cool that they do this to players,

but if you were in Farhan Zaidi's shoes, you wouldn't call up Joey Bart because it's the right thing to do based on these stupid rules. But I do think we're about to see another wave of prospects come up. Is that an unrealistic expectation now that we're well past the threshold for preserving that extra year of service time? Yeah, there's not. I don't think there is. There's actually usually, is there a second threshold? Super two. I mean, I think super two is one of those things that only the worst penny pinching teams still care about and i'm looking squarely at the pirates right now bob nutting would do the cannonball celebration cabrian super two deadline

because they can call up cabrian hayes and not play him at third base for some reason yeah oh god oh boy they're the only team who's like basically out of it already i mean yeah three and ten oh man the pirates i do think you're gonna see some younger guys also i don't know what you guys think about this but this is kind of a setting to maybe bring guys in right there's no fans there's no atmosphere the nerves i would I would imagine, are considerably less. Go struggle for a while. Yeah. Get your struggles out. Yeah.

They won't get heckled. They won't get yelled like you suck or stuff thrown at them in Philly. There's just a different atmosphere, right? You'll hear the players on the other team cheering and jeering and whatever. But I think for a young guy, it might be a better atmosphere to bring guys into than a regular season. And familiar to what you see in the minor leagues, you don't often have big crowds there. I mean, once in a while it's Star Wars night or something, so everyone's there for a Chewbacca bobblehead. But you're not playing in front of big crowds in the minors, so an easy way to break in, focus on the game,

and be a little less concerned about the surroundings and the weight of all that. I think that certainly makes some sense. For a pitcher, personally, I would think that year six of team control for a pitcher is asking a lot. How many pitchers make it through six years where you want them all six years? It's like, might as well take the guy up, see what he's got, and get him major league pitching coaching, you know, and get him around the other major league pitchers

who have made adjustments of their own. Maybe Joe Musgrove will show him the one-seam sinker, and that'll fit for him. Or maybe, you know, Derek Holland's slider grip is what's missing for somebody. You know, There definitely is. I make the example all the time of how much better Cole Hamels got when he got to the big leagues because he got Cliff Lee's cutter

and A.J. Burnett's knuckle curve, and that made him so much better. So if I had a pitcher right now, I think like the Tigers, I think I'd like to call them up. The problem is that the Tigers actually have major league representative pitchers in the rotation right now. I mean, now that Jordan Zimmerman's out of it, it's not super obvious that, oh, we need to pull this guy from the rotation. You even have Fulmer kind of growing into his role in the rotation. So that's the only place where I see trades happening is Andrew Haar and a veteran Tigers pitcher

because those are true surplus. I think that'll be what people fall back on. It's true surplus for weakness trades. We're like, I just have too much of this type of player and I need something else. So I'm going to give you Andrew Haar for a pitcher. Yeah, agreed. Derek, what does your dog think of this

yay or nay she agree i'm trying to see what she's looking at outside i so she was napping when we started recording and i tried to text my wife while i was listening to you guys i'm like can you get hazel out she's standing by the door she was growling like very softly in the background she was not happy the door was shut today's a big day in our household. Is today the day? We're getting two puppies. Two? Two puppies. I thought you were going to say your poop problem was fixed, but now you're going to have even more of a poop problem. Oh, so much poop.

It just got worse. We're getting two Chihuahua dachshund mixes. So two little dogs. Are they related? Are they related or no? Yes. no yes nice two brothers so they're gonna go pick them up today and uh i guess my life will change yeah well maybe you're maybe your dog just didn't like enos talk about the tigers because we haven't mentioned the twins at

all and they're really freaking good so yeah and we talked about bad teams too much today we probably have i'm like oh we talked about the tigers like hey how about the twins what a boring team they are they just hit a lot of home runs and nelson cruz can hit until he's probably 65 um talk about one of the nicest guys in the game probably one of the top three guys i've ever covered and been around i mean just a total class act who happens to be ridiculously good at baseball. And every year you're like, is this guy going to still hit, you know,

how old is he now? He's, is he 40? He's early. I think he's 40 now. Yeah. He's 40. Right.

I think he's going to do the David Ortiz where he like walks off. Like with a great seat, like the last season will be a great season. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're probably right. He has like another 40 home run season.

He's like, Oh, I'm not coming back. I'm good. Uh, but I mean, just the twins are just such a fun team to watch. Like,

I don't know about you guys. I don't get to see them that much, but whenever I do like that lineup, I really like Rocco Baldelli. I think he was a great fit there. That really great mix of having the front office experience with the analytics, with the race front office,

and also being a player. I just think that he was a great guy for that job. And I felt like, you know, last year, obviously, they were a great story. Then they get steamrolled by the Yankees. And we don't know what this year is going to hold, but they're a much better team. They look like a much better team than they were even a year ago. Yeah. And the crazy thing for me, I think, is that they're doing so much with this pitching staff.

I mean, it's the seventh best pitching staff in baseball right now, 297 ERA, two wins already as a staff, as a whole. And starters that they've kind of pieced together, they still manage to be, where are they? 11th in the big leagues with their starters, even though the strikeout rate isn't impressive. Beyond Jose Barrios, they kind of pieced it together, but Maeda is, I think,

very undervalued. Randy Dobnak is a throwback to basically the side armors of the past. Facial hair-wise, he's a Sal Fasano clone there. And then you've got Rich Hill doing his Nelson Cruz thing on the mound,

just with a lot more cussing. And they've kind of figured out how to piece together a pitching staff around those great bats. So it's a really fun team, I think. And, uh, just kind of really good at almost every aspect of the game leads,

lead the league and launch angle since that cast was invented. Uh, I don't know what this is. Sorry. Cause they're, they're 10 and three, right? I mean,

I feel like no one talks about them. Aren't they 10 and three, something like that? you know, the, the Bamba squad, I feel like they don't about them. Aren't they 10-3, something like that? You know, the Bomba squad, I feel like they don't really get a whole lot of attention outside of Minnesota.

And everyone talks about the Yankees and some of these other big teams in the AL. And we talked about the way the Houston has kind of started really mediocre, right? Which is a shame for an organization that's so well-liked by everyone around the league that they would start like that. But the Twins, they're just a really fun,

like that small market, mid market team to watch. It really target field is such a great stadium. I love going there. They're just a team that I don't know. I hope, I hope stays healthy. I enjoy watching them.

I'm all in on the twins, the Padres and the white socks guys right now. Those are my, those are my current real fun teams to watch when I'm not covering the Nats. So I don't know about you guys, what you guys got on the sleepers, but the Padres have been a fun team for a while. You're just hoping they kind of put it together finally.

The Padres are basically my West Coast team. When it gets late and I want to flip another game on after the East Coast or Midwest games are over, I default to the Padres. I like Don Arcillo and Mark Grant as a booth because half the time it sounds like there's a gas leak in the booth and they're just having a great time. It's a really calming late night watch anyway. Like something about those games. Those guys never seem to get over the top loud or obnoxious or anything. So I just, I like the way they call the game. I like the way the team's built. I think I was probably wrong about Fernando Tatis Jr. He's a star already. I had some reservations coming out of last season that he might have some growing pains in year two. He's just making me look really dumb

for thinking that. And they just keep bringing up interesting prospects like one after another. But I'm totally with you guys on the Twins too. I think the sneaky thing about the Twins, that's a good bullpen. Taylor Rodgers, Sergio Romo, Tyler Duffy is like one of the best relievers in the league who doesn't get any attention at all. He's been great since making that move to the bullpen. Then you look at Maeda. That acquisition was just a great trade. I don't think they're going to mess around with his innings the way the Dodgers have in the past either. If they stay healthy, they're going to be fine.

If they deal with injuries going into October, that starting pitching does worry me a little bit. Hills hurt right now. Odorizzi hasn't pitched yet this season. Those guys are all good enough as constructed to be a playoff group of four, and then you throw in the Dobnacks and the Smeltzers, guys like that for multiple innings to sort of bridge the gap to your pen. I think they are a team that can win it all this year and maybe a good, I don't know, maybe slightly longer odds than your typical favorites, right? I think people expect them to win the division, but I don't know if most people look at them and say, yeah, that team's going to win the World Series. I think they're capable of

doing that. Is there anything you guys are looking forward to this weekend before we get out of here? Eno's got puppies coming, so there's that. Yeah, I think there'll be a poop show in my house, but I'm interested to see what happens with the Cardinals. I want to see what the team looks like. I want to see who's there. I want to see who's not there. I want to see if Carlson comes up. I want to see how they rally. To some extent, the Brewers and the Tigers too, which were kind of, they all were package deal in terms of they lost games and have to get back on board. I want to make sure that none of them got sick from

who was playing the Cardinals at the time? Was it supposed to be the Tigers? It was going to be the Brewers last weekend. So that opening series in Milwaukee got canceled, and we just saw a tweet go by. And then the Tigers series. Mark Saxon just tweeting, per sources, tonight's Cardinals game has been postponed

due to further positive COVID test results. Really? Yeah. So we're not really out of the woods yet. We tried. We tried to get up there. We thought we'd see all 30 teams playing tonight. We're just not quite there.

We're in a better place than we were last week. I think we can all agree on that. Even though the Cardinal situation still might be searching for the bottom, we're better as a league than we were a week ago. I think we went 53 minutes without mentioning COVID, which might be like a world record. I don't know. You have to double check that.

We came back to it. I think that's the first time anyone's talked about pure baseball for that long without mentioning COVID. So that is exciting. I'm excited to maybe see some of these injuries taper off here. Now that we're two weeks in, our guys getting used to the workloads a little bit. Eno wrote a great story recently about the injuries that are kind of mounting.

And, you know, it's not fun to watch like the Nationals without Max Scherzer or Steven Strasburg. And, you know, that's not fun. You know, you want to watch the best guys pitch. So I really hope we're kind of at a point where they start to flatline here a little bit. So that's kind of something I'm looking forward to watching. I'd love to see the Astros continue to struggle because I think that's karma.

So I would also love to see that. The Nationals play the Orioles this weekend. So I'm going to try to see if I can figure out who some of these guys are on Baltimore. So that will probably be my big weekend task as well. But, uh, yeah, I mean,

it's, uh, we haven't talked much about the Astros, which is fine, but I, uh, I don't know. They,

they get no jeering on the road from the fans, right? They're the ones who really emerged the big winner out of all of this. And we saw obviously what happened with Joe Kelly. Um, a lot of players kind of felt like he shouldn't have been suspended for that long and we talked about that last week but I do think that the Astros are certainly a mediocre team right now which was not really expected by anybody going in and you know who knows maybe that

continues I kind of like their matchup against the A's this weekend just thinking about Frankie Montes going this weekend and Jesus Lizardo pitching on Sunday. I'm looking forward to watching a couple of those starts. That could be kind of a big early season series in the AL West. That's definitely on my radar this weekend as well. If you're enjoying this show on a platform that allows you to rate and review the podcast, please take a moment to do

that. We greatly appreciate it. If you don't have a subscription to The Athletic, again, get 40% off at theathletic.com slash rates and barrels. Get Brits coverage, get Enos coverage, get all the baseball coverage league-wide and team-by-team, plus fantasy stuff, plus the other sports as well. You can't beat that, especially at 40% off.

You can reach us via email at ratesandbarrels at theathletic.com. Just spell out the word and. Don't use an ampersand if you do that. On Twitter, she's at Britt Droley, he's at Enos Sarris, I'm at Derek Van Ryper. That is going to wrap things up for this episode of Rates and Barrels. We are back with you on Tuesday.

Thanks for listening.