Small Town Murder - #30 - A Killer So Clumsy in Kensett, Arkansas

Episode Date: August 9, 2017

This week, we look at the out of the way town of Kensett, Arkansas, where a misguided man blunders, and fumbles through 3 brutal murders, for seemingly no good reason. Along the way, we find what time of year is "trailer season", what makes a person leave a bad review for a police station, and what kind of soda you drink while taking a break from multiple murders!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we check out the little out-of-the-way town of Kensett, Arkansas, where one man's senseless brutality was on full display. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! You're not far off with that yay. You're nailing it. Bullseye. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my yaying co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman.

Thank you guys so much for joining us this week. Great week. You guys have been Wissman. Thank you guys so much for joining us this week. Great week. You guys have been excellent to us. Thank you guys. First of all, iTunes reviews this week were amazing. You guys are blowing us away. So many new listeners are coming on board. It's crazy. Which is great. Thank you guys for joining us. Welcome aboard.

If you're brand new now, we'll have a disclaimer for you in a minute, so watch out for that just in case. But otherwise, just want to thank everybody, like we said, for the iTunes reviews. They are kind of the engine that keeps the whole thing moving. They're stacking up. They're stacking up, and it's awesome, and we're starting to look very favorable among some of the heavyweights, which is really great for a couple of guys like us because

we're not famous people. We're not journalists. I'm not. No, I'm not either. We're not journalists. You know what I mean? We don't have some giant media conglomerate pushing us. Unfortunately.

We don't have anything like that. So it's just you guys being amazing and helping us out. And thank you guys so much for that. And for the people especially who have donated on Patreon, a lot of people have done it this week too. Thank you guys so much for that. Thank you guys. This is so much hard work. And every dime is appreciated.

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Shut up and give me Murder, damn it. Damn right. Damn right. Before we do get into murder, we have to do our disclaimer as always. Unfortunately. This is a comedy podcast. We're both comedians, so there's jokes here. The research

is real. The facts are real. The murders are real. Everything about it is real. We do make jokes, though. We make jokes at the expense of towns because we're all from a shitty town. We make jokes at the expense of bumbling police forces, crazy people, murderers. We can make fun of murderers, can't we? Good God, what else can we do?

If you can't make fun of a murderer, who the fuck can you make fun of at that point? One thing, though, we do not ever and we never intend to make jokes at the expense of the victim or the victim's families. That's not what we're about. As our slogan has become here, we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. It's true. And that's really the best way it can be put, because it's true. We do rip people, and we are kind of assholes, but we're not scumbags, and we're not going to make fun of poor people that lost their family or something like that.

Yes. We're not horrible frat boys sitting here making fun of someone who lost their daughter or something. That's not what we're all about at all. Frat boys do that, I'm sure. I would imagine so. They make fun of anything. Look at her crying over a kid. Well, they finger another frat boy.

I like how you said another frat boy. Well, yeah. I thought you were going sorority on that one. No, no, no. You went frat boy. They finger each other and then pretend that they're in a club together. I'm going to finger my frat brother here real quick. That's so sick.

Hey, Stinky, come over here. I'm going to stick a finger in your ear. Yeah, that's the thing they do, too, is give him some shitty nickname. Let's give each other terrible nicknames. After they jam digits up his rear end. Call each other that for the next 40 years. For the rest of their lives. As a CEO of a major corporation.

Come here, Stinky. That's exactly what it is. It's horrible. Fucking dope. So let's head out to our town for whoever's left here. New people, welcome aboard. Like we said, not that bad. Some people get a little offended at any humor around murder.

So if you don't think that true crime and comedy should ever belong together, this is probably not the show for you. Probably true. We give you a hearty handshake and we bid you adieu. That's all there is to that. Because we are going to have some murder. So if you want to be here for murder, if you want us to shut up and give you murder, that's about what we're going to do here. Let's head to our locale this evening, shall we?

Let's head out this week to Kensett, Arkansas. And it is pronounced Kensett because I saw several local news broadcasts that proved that. How is it spelled? Ken, K-E-N-S-E-T-T. So you'd say Ken Set. No, it's Kinset down there, I imagine. Makes sense. And it's funny hearing reporters, because reporters aren't from where they're reporting

from. It's just whatever shit location took them for now. They've taken classes to get rid of any accent they might have had somewhere else and things like that. So it's a guy very, I'm hearing Kinset. And it's like, that's not how you would say that. You know it, sir. You know it.

But I actually saw it on several news reports where they were, this is like, you know, as stereotypical as you get, but they were, there was a guy standing there and it was tornadoes. The reporter was standing there and he's like, I'm standing here in the site of what used to be a mobile home. And then they literally pan up to a tree and they're like, it's now wrapped around this tree. And it's literally wrapped around a tree. Like, it just took it into a thing.

And there's poor people trying to get things out of the wreckage, you know, with masks on and everything, trying to pull things out. And they're just like, here's this family trying to pull their lives out of the wreckage. But there's their shitbox trailer wrapped around a tree. They got a can opener to get their pictures out. Back to you. I got to head back to Toronto for a vacation with my family right now. So I'll see you guys later.

It's hilarious. When I was a kid, my stepfather's ex-girlfriend had quote unquote wrapped his car around a telephone pole and it had like a dent in the side. It wasn't wrapped around anything. This is legit. This was actually wrapped around a tree. This was like if you just took like a streamer and wrapped it around something. That's what it looked like.

It's the yellow ribbon for the oak tree. That's what it was. It was sheet metal for fallen trailers past or something. I don't know. Remembrance. It's in the central part of the state, slightly off to the northeast, but pretty much central part of the state. This is true blue Arkansas land right here.

It's about an hour outside of Little Rock. Okay. So it's off the beaten path a bit here. It's in White County. Zip code 72082. Area code 501. The town's website boasts that City of Kensett is, quote, a place to call home. Fascinating.

That's not real creative on that one. Every county can be. Anywhere can be a place. Any city, right. Anything. You can pick a plot of desert. There's a place to call home right there. And there's so many counties in Arkansas, too.

There's a lot. You can, a tornado can literally throw your trailer to another county. To another county, yeah. If there wasn't that tree there, we don't know how far it would have went. It could have been two counties over. Because this thing wasn't like on the bottom of the tree, the trailer. It was like three stories up. So it took it from the ground, three stories

up, wrapped around a tree. If that tree wasn't there, that thing could have went a county over. Like literally, it was crazy. It's a small town, 1.85 square miles. So not a very big, a lot of these towns, they're small, they're small in area. They're just small. History here, not oil, Jimmy, not at all. It was a stop on the Missouri and North Arkansas Railroad. I almost said Underground Railroad. It is a railroad. It was a railroad. Yeah, there wasn't really much going on when Underground Railroad was happening. I can't imagine.

Yeah, pre-Civil War, this was all farmland. This was just, I don't know if people owned slaves. There's a graveyard around there in the county that is said to have unmarked slave graves there. And yeah, it's really weird. And then they have other black people buried there with tombstones. So they're, they have it, it's almost like they're like, we're not, we should dig that up at some point, but we'll get to that later.

We got other shit to do. Like, it's like, let's figure out who's buried here. How about we do that first? After we pluck all these trailers out of these trees. Yeah, let's do that. Well, we got a trailer wrapped around the spruce tree in the yard, so we're going to go ahead and figure that out first. It's trailer season. We've got to pick those. It's trailer season, exactly. It's true.

They're out in the forest, I'll tell you. You go out in the forest, they're everywhere. They're blooming. It's better for them to clear them out. Otherwise, they don't have no food. How are they going to feed? There's going to be too many of them. Now, it became a town after the Cairo and Fulton Railroad, which was later St. Louis Iron Mountain and Southern Railroad. It was built through the county in 1872.

So this settlement here was named for Thomas Kinsett, who was a member of the railroad's board of directors. So he comes in and he's like, he probably doesn't even live there. He just laid it down. They're like, well, name it. There's jobs now. Name it after him who gave us jobs. Thank you, Mr. Kintz. He comes in flicking change and candy to the children.

Like, here you go, kids. Flicking change. Pennies. Here you go, kids. They're like, oh, a shiny penny. Why do I always make them Dickens kids? I always make them chimney sweeps. I did it last week, too.

Whenever I see a poor, wretched kid that needs change, that's what I see in my head. Wretched. This would be totally different. This would be like a shoeless,uck Finn hillbilly child here. For real. Even in the middle of summer, he's got the hat on and the scarf. He's a chimney sweep. He's very cold.

He's going to push his cousin off his balls to say thank you. Coming down with something. You know what I mean? He's definitely got a phlegmy talk. Oh, big time. It's a phlegmy thank you. It's super phlegmy here. People started to come here in the early 1900s.

By 1915, a fire destroyed pretty much the whole business district as all of these towns around the turn of the century, just everything burned, basically. Even the only, they had one store, which was an A&P, which was like the grocery store A&P. By 1920, we had 480 people here. Oh, boy. Yeah, 480 480 people here. Oh, boy. Yeah, 480 people starting to boom. Yeah, just in time for the Great Depression. Just in time for that.

And also just in time for in 1946, right after the war, right as World War II was ending, the railroad disestablished itself in that area. That really screwed everything up. You know, they tried here in the 50s. They tried. They built a school. They built a two-story high school. and then it was destroyed by a tornado. Of course, everything here is destroyed. Stop living here. You have no security. Something's telling you to leave. Yeah, they're right. You have no security that your home will not

be wrapped around a tree by the end of any given night. Like this is scary shit. It's I don't know when you're driving cross country, you're driving like through Oklahoma. I'm not stopping. No, I just want to get through there as quickly as possible so I don't get swept up into the heavens. That's all I'm looking to do here. Ridiculous. This lumber mill, though, went back and forth, got sold to people, was out of business for a while, in business, and then finally, 2005, it closed down for good. And pretty much there was a Walmart that popped in in the late 70s. Oh, thank God for those Waltons.

Yeah. And that was two miles away from Kensington, nearby Searcy. And that was pretty much, you know. Everybody commutes to work now. Well, they do. Well, the problem was it had a little downtown with a bunch of stores. And they all closed down in the late 70s. And the Walmart opened up two miles away.

So the town didn't get the tax dollars either because it was two miles away and nobody had their stores anymore. Unbelievable. This is the type of town that a Walmart will just crush beneath its boot and fucking stomp it out. Yet that whole state of Arkansas just props them up and they're like,

they're the greatest people ever. No, they're not. They ruined this whole fucking town. They're the largest employer. It's like, yeah, because they shut everything else down. They have to be. There's nowhere else to work.

Either that, if they didn't, nobody could buy any of their shit. People are working there like it's like script, like, yeah, because they shut everything else down. They have to be. There's nowhere else to work. Either that, if they didn't, nobody could buy any of their shit. People are working there like it's like script, like company script, like they're in the coal mines in the 20s. You know what I mean? You're spending all your paycheck at that store anyway. You're basically working for free. Half my paycheck for some hard tech?

I don't know if that's fair, but that's all I could get here. Some hard tech. That's the fuck they were doing here. Public schools were finally integrated in 1966 here, so that's all I could get here. That's the fuck they were doing here. Public schools were finally integrated in 1966 here, so that's a good thing. Anyway, they got on board with that. Very progressive, this place. Only a few years after civil rights was passed,

only right when they were forced to do it, but they really, you know, they tried. Their feet were charred from being held to it. Yes, exactly. Population of this town, small town, 1,651 people. Been pretty much the same for about the last 30 years. It's gone up and down. 50 people here and there. It fluctuates, but that's

just people dying and being born. It doesn't feel like a whole lot of people are leaving or coming. It's just, she died and he was born. Excellent. Perfect. Everything here is pretty average as far as stats go with age. It's within two years. Female, male, very balanced.

This is like your typical very small rural town. Everything is on point with averages. The only thing that's a little higher or a little lower would be the never married population. That's about it. That's about it. And I think that's a lot to do with the religious aspect of it. Probably. Yeah. A lot of kids here, too. People have kids. If you get married, you're having a bunch of kids here. That's about it. That's about it. And I think that's a lot to do with the religious aspect of it. Yeah.

A lot of kids here, too. People have kids. If you get married, you're having a bunch of kids here. That's it. That's just the way it goes in the South. It absolutely is. We'll break down the race, religion, that sort of thing here. 60.36% white, which is 62% of the average. So that's about on point.

That's what I mean. They're so on point with most averages. 11.78% black, 12% is the average. So they're about on point. I mean, they're so on point with most averages. 11.78% black. 12% is the average, so they're right there. Zero Asians. There's no Asians there at all. I expected higher black, though, because Arkansas has a pretty high population of black folks.

Absolutely, but I don't know how much rural-wise things were pretty segregated for a while, and I don't know how much. I mean, the schools were integrated in 1966. I don't know how much. That's a welcome time. You ever watch Gangbanging in Little Rock, the HBO documentary? Oh, yeah, well, that's Little Rock's a city, though. Little Rock's a city.

I mean, in Arkansas, there are a lot of tough fucking black guys. Yeah, I'm saying in the 30s, if you went and wandered out through Kinset, you'd probably have to be out by sundown as we've come across in El Dorado, Illinois, and that sort of thing. You get the hell home. You get the hell home. It's probably one of those. So I don't know how much. rural areas, it's weird, these small towns, when I do research, they're either very heavily black in the south, a rural area, or very not heavily black.

Once in a while, you get the balance, but it's pretty rare, actually. So no Asians whatsoever here, which is what you'd expect. 25% Hispanic, which is farmland. That's a lot, though. That's farming right there. That's pretty high. That's impressive. Yeah, it's just we need farm help.

Farm equipment. They go where farming is. I mean, it is what it is. I mean, it's a lot of the jobs here. A lot of the Latin Americans roam from countryside to country. That sounds so terrible. But they're like, they're farriers. They take care of horses and stuff.

There's a lot of Westernized Mexican guys. It's true. I don't know what I'm trying to say. I get what you're saying. They're horse, they're cowboys. What he's saying is what he said was not racist. That's what he's saying. There's a lot of Latin cowboys.

That's what I'm saying. Legit cowboys. Yes, I know. You see them out here with those shiny buckles and turquoise. And you're like, what the hell are you wearing? Fringe hanging off of them? It's like, wow, you are out. In ostrich boots?

Yeah. Where did you get those? You'd see them like 20 years ago. If there was a Delahoya fight, the streets would be flooded with guys that looked just like that going, Delahoya, Delahoya, Delahoya. And you're like, I don't think that bar might have it. I don't know. Very religious here.

60.1% religious. That is a good 10% over the average here. 29.7% Baptist. You betcha. That's right. They are the Catholics of the South, as we've said, and vice versa. It's so goddamn funny. It's so true.

It's what it is. You're one or the other. That's it. Unless you're in Utah, and then it's the LDS, the Catholics of the West, or the Baptists of the West. The Catholics of the beautiful mountain area of the country. That's it. Not a big shocker here.

0.0% Jewish, 0.0% Muslim. So you know there's going to be some violence because there are no Jews or Muslims. And as we know from these towns, just statistically speaking, this is no socio, no any kind of study on this. There's nothing that goes into this. This is just by the numbers. Looks like that means violence. You betcha. Bad things are happening.

Voting-wise, about 75% Republican, 22% Democrat. So it's a very conservative area, as you would expect with the religion that almost lines up exactly with the religious people there. So it's that sort of thing. Companies have moved to Kensett because of the natural gas industry recently. And it's also known as, this is hilarious, it's known as a center for landscaping and nursery activity. Fascinating. Yes.

It's a double spring sod farm they have. They have another nursery that's well known for Japanese maples and peach trees, that sort of thing. It's very moist there, so it makes sense that shit's going to grow. Yeah. It's very, yeah, there's like moss growing on shit. Shit will grow. Median household income here is about $26,000 a year,

which is half the national average. That sounds like what Walmart pays. It's rough here. 33% of people make under $15,000 a year. Fuck. One in three people make it. That's about three times the average of normal people. God, that's so poor.

That is very poor. Less than 4% of people make $75,000 a year or more. Or more. Less than 4%. Usually we're talking about $100,000 or more. We're talking about $75,000. Usually people that make more than $75,000, it usually equals out to about 35% of the population. Here, 4%.

Four. Fucking four. Shit is poor. This is like the old, they couldn't afford the other O and the other P. That's these people. What athlete said that? I forget who it was. It was hilarious.

Anyway, it's an old saying, but still very funny out of his mouth. It doesn't matter. Go on. old saying, but still very funny out of his mouth. It was, it doesn't matter. Go on. 48.5% of people that are under the age of 18 are below the poverty line. Wow.

That is half the kids there are under the poverty line. Half the kids are on free lunches. It's poor. It's poor. It's poor. Most of the jobs, they have double the construction and extraction jobs as normal, that sort of thing. Very blue collar. Building maintenance is like three times the average.

I'm trying to wrap my head around half are below the poverty line. That's so much. That's so much. That's poor kids. I grew up in a really terrible, poor neighborhood, and we had like 30 kids out of our entire school were on free lunch, and we made fun of them. This is, yeah, this is, my trailer's wrapped around the tree. I need something to eat today.

This is unbelievable. This is poor. Yeah this is my trailer's wrapped around the tree. I need something to eat today. This is unbelievable. This is poor. Yeah, bad shit here. Cost of living, though, is also low. As we do the whole thing, a par would be 100 would be your average. 73 is the cost of living here. But most things are average. Transportation, everything, groceries, health, they're all around average, except for housing,

which is a 26 out of 100. You could buy half the town or a normal house in a normal city. For what's in your couch? It's crazy. Holy shit. None of the houses in the town are valued over $200,000. 38% of them are valued between $40,000 and $60,000. Jesus.

So that's what we're dealing with. This is a very poor area. And if we've convinced you, you cannot stay away from Kensett, Arkansas. We have for you the Kensins at Arkansas real estate report. Yes. Yes. We have a two-bedroom apartment here. On the average, it goes for about $667, which is way less, $400 less than the average.

Which means you can find them cheaper and more expensive. I'm sure. You can find one for $300. You probably could. You could buy one for a now and later on a Tic Tac. You could just pay this mortgage that's so low. A three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,450-square-foot house for $59,500. That's nothing.

That is cheaper than a pickup truck. That is. That's crazy. That's cheaper than an SUV. Yeah. You can get a four-bedroom, two-bath house. It's 2,100 square feet, and it's a nice brick house. It's a fucking brick house.

Yeah. In Arizona, that would be a fortune. Tornado is not pulling that away. $99,000 for this house. So you get a big, nice house. Your whole family could fit in. Nice stuff, but there's nowhere to work. Good luck if you have the $99,000 already.

You got an $800 mortgage with insurance. Or you just want to pitch a tent. I don't know. You're an outdoorsman out there in Arkansas. 15.2 acre lot for 85 grand. That's a shitload of land. That's a shitload of land. 15 acres.

That's a lot. Things to do in Kinset, Arkansas. Huge, as you might imagine. Tons of things to do. Run from tornadoes. Run from tornadoes. That would be number one. Run from tornadoes and pick trailers out of trees. That's about it. Only two things listed on their Facebook page under sightseeing. And those are the Robertson

House, which is just an old house. What? And then the Kinset Police Department. Oh, boy. Which only has 3.9 out of 5 stars on the Facebook app there. So watch your shit, cops. 3.9? Yeah, they can't even get four stars out of this town. They're dicks.

They're not doing well. The crime, which is what we're interested in, obviously. I mean, the people that visit a police station are visiting it to negatively review it. I would imagine so. I don't think they're going, going, I'm just going to go see what's going on down there and take a look around. It was a nice state. No, it was horrible.

The architecture is beautiful. I just love the ceilings. It's gorgeous. I got arrested for a DUI. I'm giving it one star. I got to go bail my brother out for his DUI. Two stars. Two stars.

It was a nice waiting room. They had a Wi-Fi and they gave me the password, so I'm not going to give them one star. The water cooler was dry. It was fine. Now, that's one star and a half now. I've got to bring it down. Crime rate here.

Property crime, which is burglary and robbery, or not robbery, but burglary and theft and all that sort of thing, is right about national average, but well below Arkansas state average. Really? Arkansas's crime rates are way higher than national average. Are they insane down there? They are. Violent crime, which is murder, rape, robbery, assault, as we found out, is about half the national average. Holy shit, are they insane down there. They are violent crime, which is murder, rape, robbery, assault, as we found out, is about half the national average. Wow.

And about one-third of the state average. Okay. So very low. It's a quiet, safe, little, average, poor town is what this is. This is just like a – it's a town from a movie that would be like, we got to save this town. It's a great place to call home. Don't shut down the factory. You're begging some mogul to not – begging the rail executive to not, please don't shut

down the factory. Where are we all going to work? Oh, it's sad, man. That's sad. Hearing the poverty rate is just, God. That's heartbreaking. That's heartbreaking. Because I think about the kids, like the adults, like they fucked up.

They'll figure it out. Right. They'll figure it out. But the kids, it's like, they got no way to take care of themselves. None, especially there. And they're in poverty, for Pete's sake. They might not even have their trailer. Right.

They're living like Eminem in Detroit. Speaking of bad things and crime and violent crime, let's talk about murder. Okay. Shall we do that? I'm into that. Let's talk about murder. This is a pretty straightforward murder here, too. This isn't like a, we've had a couple of last couple of weeks that were very that were very convoluted yeah this one and that one which are great because they're twisty

and all that but there was like you know a husband and a wife and then she hired this one because she's mad about the custody and then he testifies to that it's all the stripper beats her in a fucking court it's crazy yeah we've had some crazy shit this is like a straightforward all right this is terrible why did this happen and then some crazy shit that happens in the aftermath of it that is wild that kind of lends itself to Arkansas and places like that. Not really the town's fault, but we'll blame it on this guy. We'll blame it on Johnny Michael Cox.

Okay. Let's talk about Johnny Michael Cox. That is his real name, Johnny. J-O-H-N-I-E. Not double N. Not J-O-H-N. Johnny. Oh, boy. Johnny Michael Cox. We'll call him just Cox because it's fitting, and we'll see here. We're going to catch up with Johnny Michael Cox in 1989. Ooh, the 80s in Arkansas.

Beautiful. Beautiful times. Oh, my God, imagine that. Bill Clinton's the governor or something like that? He's the governor at that point. I mean, you think about it. That time, too, it. Just that time, too. It was a different time in America.

That was a time you could walk down the streets and just pick a trailer right out of the tree. You know what I mean? And no one would care. It's just beautiful, beautiful times. You go for a walk and smell the trailers. Just smell it. Fresh, blooming, blossoming trailer. It's trailer season, everybody.

Perfect. Johnny Michael Cox here. He, 1989, he's 42 years old. Okay. Just pretty much from all everything that can be gathered, just a loser. Yeah. Basically just has nothing going on for himself. He lives in rural Arkansas, which doesn't make you a loser on its own.

No. It's brutal. It's tough, and especially if you're not educated. This guy's just floating around, 42y two year old guy with no direction. Not a ton is known about him other than this. I mean, it's one of these things. There are two cases right around this case that happened that were extremely highly publicized. So this is one of those cases.

Even if you're from this area, I'm not sure that you might have caught this on your radar. It's one of those where you're like it was so big on the other two. This one kind of slipped. It's like Chandra Levy in 9-11. It's one of those things. Yeah. So you kind of that on the other two, this one kind of slipped underneath. It's like Chandra Levy in 9-11. It's one of those things, yeah. So that's why I kind of picked it, because I'm like, I don't think this case got any due from anybody. It's one of those.

So we get to All Saints Day. Do you know what date All Saints Day is, John? I don't. No. All Saints is November 1st. Okay. Okay. I didn't know what the hell All Saints Day was.

I'm guessing something Catholic, though. It's pretty Catholic, and actually other religions get into it, too. But All Saints Day is known, there's a bunch of different things it's known as. It's basically a festival. It's to celebrate all of the saints that are known and unknown but don't have a holiday. You know what I mean? It's like, these are

your lesser saints. These are like your backup quarterbacks. It's just like a backup quarterback parade. You know what I mean? Hey, let's bring them all out, guys. Good job. This is Bobby Brewster day. Yeah, he held the clipboard. Yeah, this one did that. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It really is.

This fucker got two rings for nothing. All it is, just hanging out. Yeah, it's exactly what this is. It's backup quarterback day, but they're trying to do it. It's celebrated by the Roman Catholic Church, Methodists, the Lutherans, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox. There's a lot of people that do this, apparently. I did not know this was a thing at all before this. I was raised fairly well Catholic for a while, and I've never heard of this.

No clue. But this All Saints Day and the fact that it's All Saints Day is very looming in the story. It's a major thing because this is November 1st, 1989, and old Johnny Michael here, Cox, This is November 1st, 1989, and old Johnny Michael here, Cox, goes to Marie Sullins' place in Kensett, gets in his car, and drives specifically to go to her apartment. Now, she is 67 years old. She is his grandfather's wife. This is his step-grandmother.

Now, he knows his grandfather's not home at this moment, so he's going there on purpose to kill her. What? Okay, he's got to kill his grandfather's wife. I need to go kill my step-grandmother because, by the way, he chose the day, All Saints Day, because he thought in his head that if he killed her on that day, she'd go right to heaven. Right, she's going to become a saint right now. Not even an escalator, just like an express elevator, not even touching the first 35 floors, boom, right right to heaven. Right. She's going to become a saint right now. Not even an escalator. Right. Not even an express elevator. Not even touching the first 35 floors. Boom.

Right there. Heaven. So he's like, we can do this. I'm going to kill this lady. She'll go right to heaven. Everybody's happy at that point. Of course. Who hasn't had a thought like that?

The judge would even say, you made her a saint. Have a nice day. That's the thing. Right. She is one of the All Saints Day saints now. She'll be celebrated forever. She is the backup quarterback of the New Orleans Saints at this point. So this guy here, he goes over there.

I don't know what he's thinking. He tells people, and it's said, that he thought that she was trying to kill his grandfather. Now, this is not from his grandfather. His grandfather doesn't come to him and say, help me, please. My wife's trying to kill me. He just suspects that she's trying to kill his grandfather. So he's going to do grandfather a favor. He's like, tell you what.

I'll save you. This is a good coincidence that it happens to be All Saints Day today. Kill her. Right to heaven. Everybody's happy. Grandpa's safe. We're all good here. It's ridiculous.

Apparently, she was the one looking after his grandfather. I guess the grandfather was older than she was at 67. Because when you said she was 67 and he's 48? 42. 42. Yeah. I'm going that. No, those years don't really add up.

Yeah, he's probably 85 and she's 67 or whatever. And Cox here, Johnny, thought that she had attempted several times to kill him by leaving the gas on in his apartment. That's her strategy, apparently. And so, you know, normally when you would think that, you'd maybe have a suspicion. Maybe you'd talk to her. Maybe you'd talk to your grandfather. Maybe you'd call the police. Make sure everything's all right.

And that's the thing. If you think it's out of control to the point where she is absolutely trying to kill my grandfather, maybe get the police involved. Maybe a knock on the door from a cop going, hey, we want to make sure everybody's okay. Would make her in the future not try to kill him. You know what I mean? You never know. Might put the thing, oh, now they suspect me. Fuck, I can't do this.

But no, he says, I'm going to go there. It's a good day for this. He arrives at the apartment, though, and doesn't find her alone, which is what he expected. Expected to find a 67-year-old woman there. That's an easy kill. Jesus. I mean, we've all killed 67-year-old woman there. That's an easy kill. Jesus. I mean, we've all killed 67-year-old women. It's super simple, right?

You just push them right over and they die. It's over. It's super easy. You spray them with a mist. It's so simple. Yeah. Then you touch them and they break into a million pieces. That's how it works.

Like this little stone statue. So he goes over and instead there's Margaret and William Brown are over there. Oh, my God. There's two more. Two more people. Margaret and William Brown. They're 34. It was Margaret and William Brown are over there. Oh, my God. There's two more. Two more people. Margaret and William Brown. They're 34.

Margaret and William Brown's 32 years old. Oh, goodness. They are related to Marie Sullins. Yeah. I believe they're possibly her grandkids, nieces, nephews, that sort of thing. It never really comes out exactly what their relation is to her. I guess every Margaret has to be 32 at some point in her life, but that's a bummer to be Margaret. 34. Well, 34 in 1989, so she was born in 1955

which is an that's an acceptable thing to name your kid in 1955 that's brutal i knew a girl in high school whose name was margaret and that was rough that was rough terrible that there was four sisters and they were margaret martha alice and katherine oh my goodness what out jesus christ how they're from the 1800s. I swear to God. That is so depressing. That's sad. Yeah, that's really.

And it's just. In their 60s, they're going to have a great name. They are. But when they're 15, no. And they drank milk with dinner every night, which I found super disturbing. Of course they did. That was so weird. They were from Minnesota.

And I was like, you guys drink. Yeah, it was super strange. They didn't talk very much. You wouldn't want to. You've got to be shy. Yeah, it was super strange. They didn't talk very much. You wouldn't want to. You've got to be shy. You can tell a lot how boring someone is if they name their kid Martha or Margaret. No offense, Margaret's out there in the world.

Sorry about that if you named your kid Margaret. I don't know why you named your child Margaret, but these old-timey names are coming back, and it's super fucking weird. It's awful. My grandma's name is Martha, and it fits because I only remember her 52 and older, so it's fine. Perfect. But she had to be 19 at some point. At some point. Well, when she was 19, it was okay, but I'm not sure about that. Yeah, everyone was...

Martha at a sock hop is fine. The words, Martha's a pretty nice piece of ass, was spoken a lot back then. Whereas now, I don't think you hear that as much. Right? Am I wrong? Anybody out there? I've never said that personally. I mean, I don't really talk like that anyway, but still,

you don't hear it. I'm around a lot of guys, is all I'm saying. I never hear that one. I wonder if my grandpa ever said that. Is he alive? Fucking ask him, Jesus. I'm calling him right after this. Grandpa, did you ever say Martha is a real piece of ass? That Martha's a real

piece of ass, let me tell you something. I don't know why I made him like one of my Guido uncles. You better say yes to me, goddammit. Hey, that Martha, look at her over there, boy. Oof. I'm telling you. Hey, Vinny, look at Martha. Come on.

That's so fucking funny. What are we doing? Terrible. Holy shit. I made my Guido uncle ogling a poor woman named Martha. Some nice lady. Very sad. Oh, Martha's a real piece of ass.

So, oh, man. The funny part is there isn't even a Martha in the story. That's the best part of this. Yeah. Just in my family, in my life. Just in your family. And I've got to think about my grandma being a real piece of ass. Sorry about that.

Every time you see her from now on, you're going to be like, you're going to want to say it to her for your own sense of humor. I'm going to fucking say it. I don't think she's going to get it. She's going to go out on a limb. She's going to hit me. I guarantee she hits me.

So this idiot cocks here. He arrives. He finds poorly named Margaret and William Brown and Billy Brown here, 32 years old for Billy. Like I said, 34 for Margaret. They're there. He arrives. They're just like, hey, I guess come in.

They know him. His grandfather lives there. So they're like, I don't know why he's there. He comes unannounced. So that's a little weird. But he comes in, hangs out for a second. He's only there for three minutes before this happens. When they answer the door, he didn't say, I'm here to kill Margaret?

No, he didn't even say, where's... Oh, not even Margaret. Not Margaret, no. Marie, Marie, Marie Margaret. She got the good name. She got a more modernized name here. So yeah, not even like, hi, I'm here to kill Marie. Is she with a corsage in his hand?

Is Marie home? Please, I'm here to murder her. Is she ready for her date to be murdered? Please. So it's almost like he got there, was like, hmm, shit, people are here. That's a little off. Okay, what do I do? So he hung out for like three minutes and then was like, ah, fuck it, I guess I'll kill everybody. That was his thought, I think.

What an asshole. Why not? So he whips out a.22 pistol. Oh, no. This is what he does. Starts brandishing that. He threatens William Brown because, you know, you've got to subdue. This kind of asshole's going to try to subdue the guy first

here so he can then be able to do whatever he wants with women. He doesn't do anything crazy with women, by the way. This is a good one. No raping. No pillaging. No dead children. That was the other thing, too, this week. I was like, no more dead kids. I can't

take another. I need a couple weeks off from dead kids when we have an episode with dead kids because it just messes me up for a week it's a bit much yeah it does and they're good cases and they're really interesting but it's like i need a break with some people here who we can laugh at their names and have a good time not that what happens to them is is not horrible and it really is and not that they're not humans and all that sort of shit but they're 11, so it's a little bit easier. So anyway, he starts whipping out the pistol, threatening William Brown here. He orders William Brown to tie up Sullins and Margaret Brown. So he's like, listen, Marie and Margaret, you've got to tie them up with duct tape.

So he orders William to do this. Of course, Arkansas with their duct tape. With their duct tape, yeah. They had to use what was left on the roof. They had to pull it off the roof to do this. Of course. Arkansas with their duct tape. With their duct tape, yeah. They had to use what was left on the roof. They had to pull it off the roof to actually have something in there. They were all out. So then Cox here, this Cox sucker, takes

that's a cheap one, but I'm sorry, takes William here. I'll allow it. Yeah, we'll let that slide. So takes William and now that the other two are bound together has them together with duct tape. He now binds them all three. Cox takes William, puts him in the group and binds them all three around their necks.

Oh, my God. It's not like they're in like their wrists are together. They're together by their heads, by their necks, which seems really, really uncomfortable. And I don't know how he did it. I don't know if he just wrapped it around. So they're all kind of in one big thing or if he like twisted it in between and made like a chain yeah well you know what i mean like i'm not sure exactly what the hell he did here to do this but uh that's that was the thing uh first what he does is he figures out he wants to try to sedate them with sleeping

medication he's gonna drug these people oh my gosh first because he's like i don't know if he didn't want they're tied up already they're duct taped at the neck. He's not a doctor. He doesn't know how much to use. You have a gun in your hand, too. Like, if you want to kill people, what are we doing here with this shit? So he gives them all sleeping medication. But sleeping medication, if anybody's ever taken a sleeping pill, you don't just take it and pass out on the floor.

It takes an hour to kick in and you're sitting there. It's like acid or something. So you're going to wait for it for a while and go, is this shit going to work? Oh, my. Look at the colors. It's one of those things. It's the same thing with go, is this shit going to work? Oh, my, look at the colors. It's one of those things. It's the same thing with sleep. Is this thing going to work?

And then you wake up the next morning in your driveway with your keys in your ignition going, did I go somewhere last night? And my throat's dry. And my throat's dry. I think I went somewhere. I seem dehydrated. So they're all tied up here. He gives him the sleeping medication. It takes too long, the sleeping medication.

He has no patience, this guy. He has no time for this. No, he came over. He wanted to kill and leave. It's All Saints Day. He's got shit to do. It's supposed to be over. All Saints Day, you have a lot of shit lined up that you really need to take care of. She's not going to go if he doesn't do it today. Thank you. That's the thing. If we get too late in the day,

then the whole thing is shot. The whole elevator is gone. We don't know about time zones. Is this Bethlehem time? What are we on here? Does it have to be this? Is it Greenwich Mean? How does this day work exactly with the whole heaven thing? He really should have sat down with somebody and worked this all out with a priest or a pastor or somebody that would know this.

When does this Polar Express leave and how long until the guy with the stamp ticket thing is gone? That's it. So the drug is taking too long to kick in. He's pissed off. So what he does is he just gets a knife and starts hacking away at him. Oh, my God. Just start stabbing the shit out of him, right? Just stab away at him.

Little stabs here, little stabs there. He takes breaks, too. He's like, God, this is a lot of work. Jesus. He's very lazy, this guy. Didn't realize how long it takes to kill somebody. He's very lazy. He's like, I thought I'd just come in and kill know marie once through the head and i'd walk out like this

is jesus i gotta tie people up i gotta stab taping to do good well i don't know where to stab to kill people this guy's a disaster so he starts stabbing these poor people i mean this is we're laughing but this is horrible these poor people are tied up this is the scariest shit ever they don't know why it's happening and he's taking breaks in between. Yeah, that's the thing. Well, what he does, also, too, after he's done stabbing, I guess Margaret Brown here, old Margaret was squirming a little too much, so he's like, let me try to shoot her, too. These are taking shots at her. He's not a very good shot. Oh, thank God for her.

After his efforts here, so, you know, he tries to kill them. He stabbed, he shot a little bit, and then he's like, man, I am parched. No. I am parched. Let me go into the kitchen and see what there is to eat and drink. Oh, he shot a little bit, and then he's like, man, I am parched. No. I am parched. Let me go into the kitchen and see what there is to eat and drink. Oh my god! Chips! Nice! He cracks a Coke open, bag of chips. Watch the

little Judge Judy? Yeah, he's poppy, he just stands in the kitchen, drinks a Coke, eats some chips. What? Would go back in there, stab a little more, go back, get some more chips. What? That's what he would do. He was stabbing chips, Coke. He's like, Jesus, this is taking forever. He's like a mover who's like, I'm on my 15 right now.

What the fuck is going on? I don't even know what to say about this. He's drinking the Coke. He comes in. So after that, he comes in the room after a couple of stabbings and Cokes and some chips. He's had a whole thing of Pringles. Still, he's like, OK, this is taking forever. I drug them.

I've stabbed the shit out of all these people. I hope he's eating Pringles because he's eating the Lays. If you've watched the commercial, get your hand real greasy. It really does. If you're going to stab. Plus, he's probably covered in blood at this point, too. It's the other thing, too. Did he wash up or was he eating bloodstained Lays?

That's the worst. That's the worst. And you know, there was all over his Coke. He eats the barbecue ones. Those are so gross. I don't mind them that bad. I like a barbecue chip for some reason. I don't know. I guess I am suspect I may

kill an old lady. You never know. You never know. Keep an eye on me. So he comes in and he's like, okay, now what do I do? He doesn't make enough use of this gun, I have to say, if he's going to have a gun and try to kill people. Not that I want him to do this, but put these... Don't make him suffer. Thank you.

It sounds terrible. You're sitting there bleeding while you're eating chips. You come back to make him bleed more. Obviously, I'd rather he called 911 and came in and finished them off, but if they're going to die, I don't want them to suffer these poor people. So anyway, he comes back in after the Coke, after the chips, and he's like, let me try to strangle everyone quick because this is just getting too much.

Let me strangle them. This is hard work, too. You got to put your knee in their back. This is tough. He doesn't realize that you have to actually close a larynx and esophagus. Oh, God, it takes forever. And, you know, this one, he thinks this one's dead. And then he's strangling this one and this one's coming back.

And it's like whack-a-mole. You can't stop strangling. So he says, this is ridiculous. I am one man. One man can't kill three. This is all saints day. You know what? I'm going to leave it up to the gods.

Tell you what. Here we go. Let me just set the house on fire. What the hell? Let me just burn this building to the fucking ground and leave this place and go away. That's what he does. He sets the place on fire. He did everything except poison them.

Yeah, well, he tried to drug them up a lot, like give them extra sleeping pills. So he kind of did that, too. Like, this is overkill. These poor people did nothing to him. Nothing. At least the one he thinks in his head tried to kill his grandfather. At least the other two did nothing. They're just friends of hers.

They're just sitting there. As far as we know, all she's doing is taking care of his grandfather. And he's going to burn her down for this. Who knows? She might have been making cookies and invited them over. Unbelievable. He's a shit hitman. This guy, oh, God.

He's the worst hitman of all time. Thank fuck no one hired him for this. Because they would be at least up for a discount. They would not be paying. At the very least for this. At the very least. They'd be calling the cops and be like, look, we hired this fuck. Yeah.

And he is a terrible hitman. He's the worst. We need you to arrest him. Just awful. Just awful. So fire, trucks come and police come because it's a huge blaze. They find three bodies in there. They're like, oh, that's unexpected.

There's three dead people in here. And especially how they found them is a little odd. And you don't usually find people like this in a fire. He makes no attempts to cover his path he does nothing uh in about two minutes they show up and they're like oh this is definitely arson anybody who's ever seen a fire apparently knew it was arson immediately find three people stabbed shot and burned all duct taped together and go this is clearly a suicide this is clearly a suicide yeah this one did that they all walked over together it on fire, and sat down all at the same time.

It's perfectly fine. It's all Saints Day. They're trying to go to that spaceship in the sky. That's how you do it. Are they all wearing Nikes? That's it, man. That's it. One of that mulch up in the sky.

That's it, man. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our sponsor, Mack Weldon. Oh, and it's one of our favorite sponsors. Oh, we love Mack Weldon. They're the best. Jimmy buys Mack Weldon so his balls stink less. That's right, Mack Weldon and their amazing antimicrobial protection that takes any stink that you may have away from you and just disposes of it in its magical, wonderful underwareness. Mack Weldon is the best, I'm telling you. Jimmy's not here right now because he's out doing active things in his amazing Mack Weldon underwear, socks, active wear, hoodies, shirts, you name it. They have everything that you could want. There's also

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20% off your order just by using the promo code MURDER. MackWeldon.com, 20% off for the promo code MURDER. Amazing. Do it. Do yourselves a favor. MackWeldon.com, promo code MURDER. And now back to the show. a favor macweldon.com promo code murder and now back to the show so they find these people and they you know look at them and they figure out that all of them uh died from stab wounds and

fire and a combination of things margaret brown uh she died before the fire uh as a result of 14 stab wounds and strangulation. That's what I mean. He was hacking and he shot at her too. He was hacking the shit out of her. I guess he didn't hit her with the gun. He was hacking her up, going eating some chips, hacking a little more, strangle some, figure it out, have a couple more chips, start a fire.

This guy is a disaster. William Brown had wires around his neck. He was trying to strangle William with wires. He made like a garrot. He made like a garrot and he couldn't even get the job done with that. He had a garrot and two stab wounds but William died in the fire.

So that poor guy had to be a garrotted neck and stab wounds bleeding out but he had to die in a fire suffering. He knew the shit was... Oh, that's so terrible. He couldn't do anything because I'm sure he was weak and couldn't drag dead bodies behind him on these duct tape, too. And he's bleeding profusely, likely.

Yeah. Sullins had six stab wounds on her, the step-grandmother. The fucking target. The target, yes. Apparently, Margaret pissed him off. Yeah, she really took the brunt of it. Yeah, she did. I don't know if she was more vocal or fighting back or what the deal was, but we'll get into

that, actually. I do have some explanation on that. Sullen's here. Like I said, six stab wounds. Some of them were penetrating her lungs, but she also died in the fire. She also had to suffer drowning in her own blood, which is fantastic, asshole. This guy is a complete asshole. It's pretty clear he did not hide his tracks pretty well.

There's probably bloody fingerprint on his Coke can in the kitchen or something. He's not doing well to cover anything. He's not a brilliant dude. No. He's arrested on December 5th, so that's over a month later they finally figure it out. Because at first it was probably just like, who could have done this? And then you talk to a couple people and they're like, oh yeah, that guy. Okay, no problem.

He gives an immediate confession. Of course. Gives it all up. Detailed confessions. He's charged with three counts of capital murder. So that is death penalty time there. In Arkansas, you betcha. Yeah, so that's rough here.

The case, too, is going to be a bifurcated case, which I'll explain in a little bit, which is a weird thing that doesn't normally happen in criminal cases. It's very strange here, but it's more of a like an arbitration thing. I'm looking at this was a rough one to dig into legal terms, but I'll explain it pretty simple here. Now, he confesses on videotape to this whole thing. And I have a rather lengthy excerpt from this where he describes exactly what happens. And normally I hate, hate giving, you know me, I don't like quoting killers if it's a

big long thing or they're saying why there's some big horseshit manifesto. I don't like doing this, but this is literally a play by play and he's the only one who knows it. And he's willing to just spew it. He's willing to spew it. He's caught and he's like, whatever. I can't wait to say about it. They gave him chips and a Coke and he was like, I guess I'll talk.

Let me tell you guys this amazing story. You know, the last time I had chips and a Coke. Let me tell you about that. story. You know, the last time I had chips in a Coke. Let me tell you about that. So let's get into this here. He says, and this is all a big quote here. I'll just get into this. He said, I held the gun on Billy Brown and made him tie Marie and Margaret. He used

electric cord to tie them up. I made him tie their hands and feet. Then I tied him up. I had him hold his hands over his head with his back to me. I ran the cord around his neck and had him put his hands down. This caused the cord to tighten around his neck. So he was thinking of some, you know, how do I do this in a shitty way? Billy said Margaret had some type of sleeping pill, and it was supposed to have been a nerve

pill. So whenever they introduced me to that, I said, well, all of them need to go to sleep. And so I had them take four pills. I had them each all take four pills. So he gave them all four of these pills, too. So that's what I mean. He did drug them pretty good. And whether they took them or not or spit them out, I don't know.

Marie wanted to go to the bathroom, so I cut the cords tying her to the others and carried her to the bathroom. I brought her back in and laid her on the bed, and that's when I tried to kill her. Or at least I thought I was trying to kill her. I stabbed her several times. Prior to that, I had been in the kitchen drinking Coke and eating chips. I was waiting on the pills to take effect so that I could set a fire and the smoke would kill them. That was his plan. This whole thing was planned just this way.

Horrible. I mean, this sounds like a complete botch. And he's like, no, this is what I had planned. This was perfect. I don't know if he's saying that to sound like he wasn't a complete disaster. He said, I got tired of waiting more or less because I had planned. This was perfect. I don't know if he's saying that to sound like he wasn't a complete disaster. He said, I got tired of waiting, more or less, because I had been there long enough. How long is long enough for killing people? You don't have time for this?

It's not like I shouldn't spend 10 minutes at the drive-thru at McDonald's. You're murdering three people. That could take a while, asshole. Sorry. Clear your fucking schedule. You can't hear too loud. Yeah, All Saints Day or not, clear out the schedule. You're not waiting on your check at fucking Olive Garden.

Your trailer's wrapped around a tree anyway. You don't have anywhere to be. What's the goddamn difference? He'd been there long enough, so he said, that's when I started to kill Margaret. He said, I yanked up a coat because she started making noises and stuff like that, and so I muffled it as best I could until I could get in position. I tried stabbing her and couldn't kill her, so I just shot at her and couldn't kill her. So I took an electrical cord and wrapped it around her neck

and held it with one of my feet and took my hands and pulled it up until I choked her to death, but she was even breathing after that. My God. Poor fucking people. Then I stabbed Billy in the chest and turned him over on his wife, Margaret, and stabbed him in the back. I figured he was dead, but he was alive.

I went to Marie and tried to cut her throat with that knife, but it was too dull. Well, Marie didn't't say nothing else and the wire was around her neck and like i say i was impatient and i'm in a hurry then i went back into the kitchen and drank some more coke and ate some more chips and then i got out of there after i set the fire that's his fucking explanation wow more chips more coke yeah two two chip and coke breaks stabbing for pete's yeah he's got a smorgasbord going on over here. Yeah, he's just doing that. He said after setting the fire with, quote, greenish looking foam and some plastic to make the smoke toxic so it would take the air out, take the oxygen out.

That's his quote of what he was trying to do. He had a theory of what he was doing with the fire. Make poison gas in here. He's trying to gas people now. You're burning a place down. All the gas is poisonous. That's the thing. But he wanted to, like, poison them with poison gas and then have their bodies be charred up after that like he's a fucking Nazi on top of shit.

Haven't you done enough to these people? Unbelievable. Someone in this case that doesn't get brought up much except in the case named Milo Healy at this point appears at Cox's attorney's office. And he implicates himself in the murder. He says he did it by himself. And the attorney reports it to the police and the prosecution who just discounted it as ridiculous because they had talked to this guy earlier and he didn't say he killed him. And this guy has a pretty detailed, you know, based on forensics and this guy's explanation. They match up.

So it's like this guy did it. Hey, and also just an aside. Stop doing that, assholes. Anybody that. Yeah. Why do people do that? I don't understand. I hate that so much. You're doing nothing but causing more more victims. You fucking stupid people thinking. I bet if I say it, then they won't know who did it. And neither of us will get you. I guarantee you that's that's the stupid mentality here. Now give me some chips and coke like these are just stupid fucking people, obviously. So pre-trial, prosecutors announced they will seek the death penalty, like I said, when they filed capital murder charges.

He claims right off the bat that this whole thing is ridiculous, Cox. He says he was denied his right to due process and the Sixth Amendment rights to a fair jury trial. Whatever. Sixth Amendment rights to a fair jury trial because the trial court refused to grant his request for a continuance because he wanted a continuance to then file a change of venue thing because of the excessive publicity. It's not even excessive publicity about his case, though. This is what I'm saying. Before it got sandwiched, there was a really, really, really big death penalty case going on at that moment that was getting insane amounts of publicity, two of them as a matter of fact. One was a person who was just executed, another one who was sentenced to death, and it just

blew up this death penalty talk in this part of Arkansas at this specific time. It gets put to death, and they deserved it, or they were convicted, and there was zero doubt. That makes everybody just really hone in on any terrible case, fucking kill them. Like it's very popular for people just to lean that way. This was just – it really got – it bubbled up. OK. Because Arkansas really just started firing up the death machine again.

OK. So it was firing up. So he was saying everyone's just been talking about the death penalty. What the hell here? He's like let's calm down everybody. Let's not talk about this yet. The week before his trial, that's when they execute this guy. They execute the first guy in Arkansas since 1964.

Wow. So that was 25 years they hadn't executed someone, so it was a big thing. So he's like, hey, can we do this farther away? He says that the publicity around the death penalty in connection with the executions made it impossible for the court to assemble a fair and impartial jury. And the court denied the motion to continue. And they instead brought in 100 extra people to include in the jury pool to ensure that there was enough jurors potentially that weren't tainted by the publicity. Because apparently here, what we found is they find the considerable publicity wasn't enough because they say that it's not the amount of publicity,

this is in the law in Arkansas, not the amount of publicity, but the effect of the publicity on prospective jurors. The jurors need not be totally ignorant of the facts and issues involved. It is sufficient if a juror can lay aside his or her impression and opinion and render a verdict based on the evidence presented in court. So that sounds like that's the law, but appeals-wise, probably fucking move it as we've come into before. Just to make sure this sticks. That's something that actually gets cases overturned. This case is, like I said, a bifurcation, which any attorneys out there that are going

to tell me that's completely wrong and all that. But apparently the judge can divide the trial into two parts so they can render a judgment on the like a like a legal issue and then that sort of thing like they have a lot of times in the states the way they do it because the states use this differently uh defendant who has raised the defense of mental disease or defect will that'll have that happen. Okay. Where it's like his guilt isn't really at factor. It's the actual, you know what I mean? Like the judge, they can rule on one thing and then there's the other thing as far as the-

So they can pull apart charges and events? Well, no. As far as the mental disease or defects. Oh, okay. It's kind of like, yes, you're guilty. Now, does the mental disease or defect make you not get responsible or whatever, or responsible but to be put in a home or whatever with that. That's usually if the defendant is guilty and the issue of mental disease is presented.

That's what it says in the law. So that's what he's pulling into it. So that's what they're pulling in. Yeah. Well, not at first. He really doesn't bring up the mental disease very much, but I think they're all thinking that they don't want him to have that defense it feels like. I got you. I'm not an attorney, so that's't want him to have that defense, it feels like. I got you.

I'm not an attorney, so that's a tough one. It varies from state to state. I'm not exactly sure how Arkansas applies it. I'd need an attorney in Arkansas to probably tell us about that. So this could just be something in strategy for the prosecution? Possibly, yeah, or the defense. I'm not even sure. Prosecutors never really nailed down any kind of motive other than he thought she was trying

to kill his grandfather, maybe. That's all they ever got out of him. other than he thought she was trying to kill his grandfather. Maybe that's all they ever got out of it. He was like, she's trying to kill my grandfather. She leaves a gas on over there. I'm going to go over there and kill her. Like that was all. That was it. There's nothing else.

Yeah, it's it's crazy. Margaret Brown's father testified that Sue Cox, who is a relative of Johnny, obviously here, had broken Marie Sullen's arm and tried to strangle her with a coat hanger two weeks before the murders. So that's his defense team bringing that up that, hey, another member of his family. Everyone in that family wants to kill this lady. OK, you got to just line up and get them all because it's really not him. Yeah. She's under attack.

That's the thing. And apparently three hours before the murders took place, the Milo Healy that we talked about and Sue Cox had threatened to burn her house down, Marie's house to the ground, which sounds like they got together and talked about it. He's like, I'll go burn it up, burn her house down right now. And he went over there. I don't know. Everybody hates Marie. Everyone wants to kill this lady. I don't understand why.

It's ridiculous here. Ridiculous here. They didn't want to put – Cox's attorneys didn't want to put those – them on the stand, though, because he feared their stories would completely fall apart because they're probably bullshit. Right. 99.9 percent. And maybe lunatics. And they're probably crazy and they're just going to make them look like a circus and it looks like you're trying to create a circus. And juries usually don't like circuses. No. The medical examiner then testified in court about the 14 stab wounds in the neck, chest, breast, and side for Margaret Brown.

The electrical cord that was hanging from her neck that they found after the fire. She died from a combination of stab wounds and strangulation. So it was a cocktail, really. It was a potpourri. At least you didn't know there was a fire. Yeah, no shit. William Brown, they found him with the wires around his neck, but he died in the fire. He was still alive at the time of the fire, obviously.

And same thing with Marie, six times in the back and neck and lungs penetrated the whole deal, like we said before. And, yeah, she was also alive and died as a result of a little bit of little column A, little column B on the stab wounds in the fire, basically. It's easy to get overtaken if you're bleeding out, probably, by fumes and smoke. I imagine it makes it easier. Yes, definitely. So, huge shocker here after all of this. Also, too, they show his videotaped confessions and all that sort of thing and the crime scene and the brutality and all of that. Shocker he's found guilty.

Of course. Huge shocker. Yeah. Found guilty pretty easily. Yeah. Convicted and sentenced to that. Shocker he's found guilty. Of course. Huge shocker. Yeah. Found guilty pretty easily. Yeah. Convicted and sentenced to death. Oh. Definitely sentenced to death.

Uh-oh. Yeah, death by lethal injection. He's getting that. So that's a thing now. He's on death row now. So he's sitting there. He appeals in 1993. Okay.

Basically what they're trying to appeal, he has a few things here. Prosecutor says of this, the proof is overwhelming. This is ridiculous. They were brutal. The prosecutor called the murders brutal, inhumane, and heinous. And he says two of them perpetrated merely because the victims happened to be there. I'm shocked he didn't

say callous somewhere in that. They probably should have. I think he went with heinous. He's like, do I go with heinous or callous? Yeah, he's like, I used callous on another case earlier. I should skip that one. That judge has heard callous before out of me. I'm going to pull open the thesaurus. It's like a comic.

He's like, that booker's seen that joke. I'm going to tell some new shit. Yeah. Prosecutor just says that crimes are fully compatible to those in other cases, which were the death sentence stood just fine, so it's fine. He argues on appeal, first of all, what I said about the jury selection and the publicity and the change of venue. Those are obviously his first concerns.

Also, Cox here, Johnny, contends that the court erred while they had a Wadir ruling on jurors. There was a few jurors that they had a problem with here. He said that one of them should not have been excused for cause because there wasn't any cause, which they have their number of strikes. And that's a really, really hard thing to get them to whatever, to get them to overturn on something like that, because you have the lawyers have their numbers of strikes they can do with the jury, the potential jurors. You got to choose some. They got to choose some. Exactly. So that's a tough one right there. Hey, guys.

I just want to tell you real quick. Web support is brought to you by WebAndWriter.com. If you're looking to build a website, go over to WebAndWriter.com. They build websites that look great on all screens, graphics, logos, engaging content. Go over to WebAndWandwriter.com or go over to facebook.com slash webandwriter. They'll build you an unbelievable website at a very fair rate. They'll build you a very great website. Go see them, webandwriter.com. As a juror, the person he was complaining about, this juror Thacker was her last name,

As a juror, the person he was complaining about, this juror Thacker was her last name, the reason why she was excused, the cause was that her son had been prosecuted for a felony by the same prosecutor that was in this case. I don't want that lady in there. That's kind of a conflict of interest if you're the prosecutor. You go, that lady probably doesn't like me. I'm going to get her off my jury. And they are saying, no, that's grounds for appeal. So also he says that the trial court erred in submitting the aggravating circumstance for the jury's consideration.

He says he was charged with capital murder of three individuals under three separate counts of capital murder. And there's a big law about this. If a person commits capital murder within premeditated and deliberated purpose of causing death of one person, he causes only that. It's a long legal horseshit, basically. And he's trying to say, this isn't right. I shouldn't get all of these.

The court tells him to go fucking pound rocks. Screw you. Affirmed. Eat shit. Sentence and conviction. Without all this complicated legal garbage. 97, he has another appeal. Again, he's talking about, this is with the Arkansas Supreme Court.

He's talking about the change of venue. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah yeah same bullshit this time though he's also arguing ineffective assistance of counsel saying that his counsel failed to fully present as a mitigating circumstance that at least one of the murders perhaps all three were committed by someone other than cox what because it's hard to bring that up if you're an attorney as an actual alternate theory of the crime. If there's a goddamn videotape of you detailing me saying exactly what you did. Exactly what happened. How many chips you ate in between and whether the Coke was fizzy enough for you.

Really hard. It's hard to actually try to create that image of it happening by somebody else's hands. When you fucking said you did it. That's all there is to it. Exactly the way it happened his thing his whole thing is there are very small inconsistencies here and there are a few and it's not even that many of them uh between his written and videotaped confessions so he's like well you know i must have been lying on one of those that means i didn't do it like would that no they're both from you right and you still got found guilty so sorry uh so yeah

that ends up happening here and also he he this last thing is here. He says that his counsel provoked a juror during jury selection, which created hostility toward him. And he claims that, you know, there was a prejudice there because, quote, prejudice can, quote, be presumed since his fate was in the hands of an obviously hostile juror. She probably couldn't she could not get over that, this juror, apparently. Maybe she was an older lady, too. Yeah, maybe. Maybe she was 67 years old and afraid of being killed by her husband's grandkid. Maybe it was a Martha with a hot ass.

You never know. Yeah, that's a hot piece of ass there, Martha. So anyway, they find no evidence of any of this. They say, you know, that there's no evidence that she was hostile. She wasn't telling other jurors, I'm going to burn this guy at the stake or anything like that. She was fine. It's ridiculous. And yes, appeal decision is

a review of the record convinces us that Cox received a fair trial. We will find that the issues raised in Cox's motion for a certificate of appealability are not debatable among reasonable jurists. No court could resolve the issues differently, and the issues deserve no further proceedings. Accordingly, the motion for certificate of appealability

is denied, affirmed. Go fuck yourself. So let's start the execution train going on here. Start drinking the cocktail, brother. That's what they do. Well, he's got an interesting part in this, too. He's got a clemency hearing on January 25th, 1999. He sends two letters to the board that morning stating that he does not

want a hearing and he does not want to appear. This is like your last ditch clemency appeal here. His lawyer anyway, Craig Lambert, said that he went ahead with it anyway. He asked for a chance to speak to the board because he had a schedule and he had people coming. He had witnesses and all that. He does not appear, Cox. He didn't think he had a shot at clemency, so he didn't think there was any point to it. He didn't think that any of the board members could get to know him in a brief hearing before the panel is what he said. Get to know him. Well, he's not such a bad guy. I don't do well on speed dates.

He's up like 22 stab wounds, a fire, a gunshot, a strangle, and some drugs. But he's a decent guy. There are things he didn't do to these people. Look at it that way. He didn't rape them. He didn't rape them. That is one thing. He did not.

He kept his dick in his pants, at least. That's one thing. That's about the only thing. That's it, man. That's true. Otherwise, he might have everything literally but the kitchen sink and just trying to hit him over the head with it. Now, he also had a priest testify, Lambert, the attorney.

Five death row inmates spoke on his behalf in a 90-minute session. He made murderers like him? Apparently. That's so sweet. Yeah. Or this lawyer said, hey, do this for me and I'll file your next appeal for you maybe. Yeah. So this was just time to argue against the death penalty in general rather than specific

points of the case. This is just to try to pull on some heartstrings. He found five other guys that also disliked the death penalty in general rather than specific points of the case. This is just to try to pull on some heartstrings. We found five other guys that also dislike the death penalty. He tried. Yeah. Five guys on death row. We don't think the death penalty is right. And like we said a million times, we're not real death penalty enthusiasts here at all.

But if there's five guys in this country that are completely against it, they're on death row. It's going to be those guys. The most against it. The most. The Reverend Charles Thessing of St. Jude Catholic Church was in there. He sounds so eloquent. Yes, he is. He came in there.

He said he was a giving person. He's giving, all right. He's changed since he's been in prison, he said. He's just a different guy. One of the inmates, actually, this is kind of funny. He looked at all of them and asked them if they were all Republicans, which in Arkansas on the parole board is pretty. Yeah. So they all started laughing. Probably.

They all started laughing. Paul, which is he was just making a joke. He called Cox. This is inmate here. Jeff Paul called Cox a friend who had helped him adjust to life on death row. And he says, quote, Governor Huckabee, he's a Baptist minister, so maybe he'll do something. Maybe you guys can do something. He's trying to, like, pull for, you know, the Lord.

It's All Saints Day. Shit. They're like, no, we'll kill him on November 1st. He'll go right to heaven. No problem. No problem. So they don't kill him on November 1st. But the governor's office, Huckabee doesn't have any answer to that.

He doesn't have any response. He refuses to appear. Cox never ended up coming. The post-prison transfer board voted 6-0 to not recommend clemency. So he's fucked. February 16th is the execution date set. February 16th, 1999. This is when shit gets really crazy because Cox tells his spiritual advisor, Charles Thessing, that he believes, and

this happened like a couple of weeks before this, he doesn't even think, he thinks it's fine because he thinks he's going to survive the poison from the injection. Because he's seen how hard it is to kill somebody. He says, you can't kill people with just that. Shit, I would have done that first. He thinks he can survive. He says that Cox said that it's, quote, it may just be just a show. And he thought it was possible to survive the poisons that shut down the heart and lungs.

And he said, you know, once I survive it, then they're just going to let me go. That's what it is. Like, they'll inject me and be like, oh, we're going to kill him now. And I'll be like, no, it didn't kill me. And they'll be like, oh, well, let him go. That's it. I guess he's done. Have a good one.

Here's your bus ticket. Have a good time. Like, that's what he thought was going to happen. What an idiot. Yeah. So he also tried to set up appointments for the day after and the Friday after the execution. He was setting up appointments with social workers and shit like that. And they were like, yeah.

So that made his legal team kind of think he possibly put his competence in question. Yeah. But, I mean, he might be just losing his mind here at this point. I mean, when you're faced with death, you do wild shit. Yeah. Cox's lawyer. Like, make appointments after your death date. That's it.

And say, I think I can beat the poison. I think I can beat it. Why? What makes you think that? I got an appointment February 24th to be, I don't think you're going to make it. No, no, I'm going to make it. Oh, I'll get there. Don't worry.

The word he used was immune to the poisons. No one's immune to poisons, but whatever. He's not Rasputin over here. This is what he was doing. His lawyer said, quote, I had doubts about his competence. I still have doubts about his competence. So he's like, yeah, this is a mess. I have some doubts myself.

Yes. U.S. Supreme Court denies the 11th hour appeal about two hours before the execution. He has his final meal. Yeah. I know you love the final meal. Is it fried chicken? It is not fried chicken. It's a double cheeseburger, a side of jalapeno peppers, and part of a raisin pie. That's it? That was his meal. Part of a raisin pie.

Part of it. I'm full. A double cheeseburger and some jalapeno. I'll save the rest for later like that one guy who got executed. He's like, I only need some of it. I'll be right back. Yeah, it's fine. You don't understand. I don't know how of it. I'm going to be right back. Yeah, it's fine. You don't understand. I don't know how much of it I'm going to eat because although I'll survive the poisons, I'm immune. They might upset my stomach a little. I'm not sure. I feel a little hungry.

I could just feel a little peckish when I get back. I'm going to need the rest of that pie for those appointments I set for later. That's it. I'll have people come over and we can have the rest of that. Let's do it. Raisin pie? Raisin pie. That's disgusting. I've never heard of a raisin pie. I know people from Arkansas are going to be like, raisin pie is the best. I grew up, my grandmother made the best raisin pie. That's disgusting. I've never heard of a raisin pie, by the way. That sounds horrible. I know people from Arkansas are going to be like, raisin pie is the best.

I grew up, my grandmother made the best raisin pie. That's fine. Raisins are gross. The rest of the world is not eating raisin fucking pie. Let's just say that. What are you, a toddler? Who eats raisins anyway after they're eight? I don't mind a raisin. Really?

There's some raisin bran once in a while. I like that shit. All right. Well, I can see it. Not out of a little box. No. No, in a cereal, in a raisin. You got little red sun-made boxes. Not out of a little box. No. In a cereal. In a raisin bread. You got little red

sun-made boxes. You got to pack those in your pocket. By the way, Kellogg's, two scoops. Too many fucking raisins. I don't want that many raisins. I don't want two scoops. You might have three scoops in there, by the way. Cut it down to one scoop, please, and I'd like it a lot. I have to pick out half a scoop. Like, it's too much scoopage. Alright, anyway. So, he has a 15-minute shower. You know

he was whacking like a madman in there. He was tugging like crazy. 15-minute shower. He's like, I'll get one out before. I don't know how the poisons are going to affect it. Then he's sent to the cell to visit with his lawyer. All this stuff in there, the poison will attach to it. I got to get this slime out. I got to get it out.

The demons. The demons. Jesus. So yeah, he's got a spiritual advisor. He's got his attorneys there. They cover his hands for the execution with a sheet. This is the shit that grosses me out about these executions because they cover his hands because the last time they did it, the execution before him, the observers could see their fingers twitch as the chemicals were taken over. And it fucking disturbed people because they're killing someone and you're watching it happen.

And normal people aren't okay with that. You're there to watch a murder. Yes, but they're trying to make it pleasant for the, that's the point. This is what pisses me off. They're trying to make it palatable. No. Don't make it palatable. That's what I mean. You should have to, if they're going to do executions, you want to watch it.

They should be naked, be in boxers. Well, if you want to watch it, you have to be in the room and they shoot him in the back of the head with a shotgun. You might get some brain on you. Sorry. This is not an easy thing. We're murdering someone and we should do it. And there's some people where you go, yeah, fuck yeah.

Yeah. Shoot that motherfucker. It should be the point. It should be the guy last week. Right. The guy that's being killed should it should be to the point where everybody in the room is like, fucking yeah. Well, that's what I mean.

But it's just yeah. But they do this to try to make it like, oh, you can't sanitize this. You are killing someone. So you don't try to sanitize it. Do it so we know you're doing it. And then people might have a problem with it a little more. Right. Yeah, people don't have a problem with it if it's visually palatable, which is ridiculous.

That's what I think is really a lot of hypocrisy. Changing from the electric chair to this shit. It's like there should be a three-foot flame off their fucking head. That'll make people go, I don't know if I like this or not. A three-foot flame? I don't know how to kill this bitch. So after they asked him whether he had a last statement before his death here, he said, quote, yes, I'm anxious. Please release me and let me go.

Well, yeah, no problem. Oh, I'm sorry. Were you not wanting to do this today? Yeah, I'm anxious. Was he saying, like, please release me as in, yeah, no problem. Oh, I'm sorry. Were you not wanting to do this today? Yeah, I'm anxious. Was he saying, like, please release me, as in, like, kill me? No. Or, like, let me out of this chair? Let me go, he said.

Please release me and let me go. I need to go home, you guys. This is too much. Yeah, I got some chips and a Coke. I need to take a break here. I got appointments and half a raisin pie. Yeah, so they administer. I got a half a raisin pie back there.

So they administer the poison at 9-0-1. Yeah. And I'll save you the suspense. He's not immune to poison. I'm sorry to laugh at this horrible thing, but he's apparently not. He's pronounced dead at 9.11 p.m. So 10 minutes, maybe he's more immune to other people. They said he exhaled quickly when it started.

He breathed out a couple of times here. After five minutes, he wasn't looking so good. And then that was that. Cox did send a message through his lawyer to other death row inmates. He says, quote, to all those wonderful and great guys that at this time remain on death row, I pray you grow in love and understanding and just know I love all of you. So I've never heard of a guy releasing a statement to the death row inmates. That's bizarre. A lot of camaraderie on death row.

It's very strange here. I mean, if there's any anywhere in the world, I would assume that's where it is. Guys that are clinging to anything, especially just guys that are together, that their days are numbered. Yeah. You'd figure you'd become best friends. I would assume. I don't think I've ever heard of it.

It's like being in Vietnam together or something. I've never heard of a death row riot. That's true. You know what I mean? They're locked down and kept separate. That's why. But yeah, yeah. What are you going to do?

Those guys, a lot of times, are just beaten down by that. They're like, yeah, whatever. I don't give a shit. Stick the needle in me. Two family members watched the execution, John Brown and Donald Brown. They said they left immediately

without talking to reporters. And the Department of Correction spokesperson said, quote, looked like they were ready to go home. They wanted this shit to be over. It's been 10 years, the whole deal. Marie Sullins is buried in Waldron in Scott County, Arkansas. It's the Pilot Prairie Cemetery. And we don't really give a shit where Mr. Cox is buried.

Doesn't fucking matter. Who cares? But that is a crazy-ass town of Kinsett, Arkansas. No Santa Claus like last week. I apologize for that. But there's also no dead kids, so hey, everybody wins. Yay. If you like that story, please, please get on iTunes.

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So amazing that have helped us out so, so much. Let's do those. Let's shout those out right now. What do you say, Jimmy? Thank you guys very, very much for helping out so much, by the way. It's been fucking amazing, just the groundswell of support. The point is that this is all homegrown. It is.

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Slaughtered over there. Stefan Lick or Lick, Jess Landgren in Australia. Thank you, Jess. Thank guys got wise and serious. Stephan Leak or Lick, Jess Landgren in Australia. Thank you, Jess. Molly Hewitt, Talia Crabtree, Leslie Woodruff, Grayson Lamb, Jamie Doering, Lindsay Smith, Kimberly Wilkerson, and Jaybird Wedbetter. Thanks, brother.

We love you, Wedbetter, since the beginning, man. He's been around I think since episode eight he joined us. It's incredible. You guys have been fantastic. One of the four horsemen since. Thank you guys, really. The past week has been just the groundswell of support between Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat.

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Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people, with a touch of humor, I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great, a dash of sarcasm, and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

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