Small Town Murder - #33 - A Basement Dwelling Predator in Collegeville, Pennsylvania

Episode Date: August 30, 2017

This week, we check into the aptly named college town of Collegeville, Pennsylvania, where one person's incredibly cold blooded, and completely abhorrent actions changed, frightened, and generally freaked out the entire town. Along the way, we find out how a grown man gets picked on in the bathroom, if there's anything more disgusting than peepholes into a dressing room, and that if a murder suspect is wearing heavy makeup, he should definitely have to wash it off!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we look at the small town of Collegeville, Pennsylvania, where a loner with an overactive imagination gave in to his most horrific instincts. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody.

Welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Hey, that is a lot of excitement for murder. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wisman. Thank you guys so much for joining us today. We are excited.

Hope you guys are just as pumped. Yeah. Hope you guys survived last week's episode. Holy shit. That was a lot of rough subject matter there. And it's the first time we've had like a rough subject matter where it's not like a sexual

thing where it's actually like, Jesus, that's just brutal. That was my problem. It was just a matter of brutality. I want to thank everybody this week for their iTunes reviews because you guys were enormously huge this week. So big. We you guys were enormously huge this week. So big. We're so close to 3,000.

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Holy shit. Thank you, thank you to all of our patreon contributors out there you guys are keeping us alive yeah and keeping us going and honestly guys thank you so so much and it makes us insanely committed to this also if you'd like to know how committed we are to this we can describe quickly the last like 48 hours of this of our lives here i haven't slept at all yeah i was up all night thursday night i guess because today yeah okay today is saturday that we're currently recording uh friday night last night uh i got married yeah yes i did i was there a surprise little ceremony

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Speaking of steaks. Way to go. Thank you. Thank you very much. James is an unbelievable barbecue chef. I do all right. I do all right. That was pretty good.

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Go listen. It's our other podcast. Go try it. Listen to that. Give it a shot. You don't have to like sports. You don't. It doesn't matter.

You have to like sports as much as you have to really be into small towns for the show. You don't really need to be into it. It's just context. Also, before we get started, I have to do our disclaimer. Standard disclaimer. You're still going to do that as a married man. Gotta do it, man. Gotta do it. Standard disclaimer here. We are comedians.

It's true. We're stand-up comics. Whether you believe it or not. This is a comedy podcast. The facts are real. The cases are real. Everything in it is real. We don't make anything up for any kind of comedic effect or any other kind of effect. Everything's real. The jokes come from mainly making fun of small towns because we're all from a shitty small

town or making fun of a murderer because they're a murderer. And they deserve it. They deserve it. Yeah. We can't do anything from our standing in the world. All we can do is mock them. That's what we can add. We're pretty good at it.

We can contribute to that. We never ever try to make jokes or we never do make jokes at the expense of the victims or the victims' families. We never try to denigrate anything like that. We're not bad people. They've been through enough. As we've said a million times, we are assholes but not scumbags. We definitely are not scumbags. We're not scumbags.

We're decent people and we try to do this in a respectful way and also to have some funny in there. If that sounds good to you, great. Welcome aboard if you're a new listener. Let's do this. If you think that true crime and comedy never, ever should cross paths, ever, this is not for you, probably. You're probably not going to like this. So let's save ourselves both some trouble. And let's part ways now as friends.

What do you say? You don't have to go out and tell everybody what assholes we are. We already know. We know. We got it. So you do that. Thank you. We'll shake hands and have a good one.

Have a nice one. Whoever's left out there. Yeah. All of you. What would it have you? We're going to be a shitload of you out there. Welcome in because we've got a doozy tonight. Oh boy, do we?

Oh boy. It's a mess tonight. Wow. I got to tell you guys. Let's get into this. Let's go to Collegeville, Pennsylvania. Okay. Oh boy, do we. You could just call all of them Collegeville, USA. Like in New York, if you go upstate New York, they have all the SUNY schools, the state universities. And it's just a school with like this little itty-bitty, tiny, strange, odd, weird town attached to it. And that's kind of what we have here in this region here. It's in the southeastern part of the state, outside of Philadelphia, actually, about 45 minutes outside of Philly.

So I guess it would technically be the kind of distant suburbs of Philly here, but you wouldn't know that you're right outside of Philly by being in this town. It's a very small town-y feel. It's in Montgomery County. Zip code 19426. Area code 610 in case any weirdos are calling you from Collegeville. The town website here, they're bragging. Yeah. They're bragging in Collegeville. They they got a website they're not messing around here can

it says quote the borough of collegeville is a great place to live work and play we are a close knit community and take great pride in our neighborhoods streets and parks come be a part of the community and their streets come on in no other town has said, we love our streets. No, they say we love our people. Our streets are the most paved goddamn streets you're ever going to find in a small town. Philly likes to piss on them. They come over just to piss on them because they say, your asphalt is so smooth, I got to piss all over it. I can't even do it. I need it.

I need it. The splash is so lovely. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. This place it. I need it. The splash is so lovely. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. This place is not always Collegeville. Yeah. It's pre-college. Perkeoman Bridge is what it's originally known as.

And then it later changes to Freeland. Okay. That just sounds like any time someone comes from somewhere horrible and they land, they're like, it's Freeland. This is ours. I'm here. Yeah. This is great. But not sure about that exactly.

In 1869, the German Reformed Church founded Arsinus College. What? Arsinus College. I think that's how you say it. I've heard it said three different ways. And the German what founded it? The German Reformed Church founded it. How many times have we done a small town where the church started it?

It's always the church. Pretty much 90% of these towns. You've got to get away from where they're at to practice what they want to practice. Colorado City, Arizona. Exactly. Well, it's either church or a fat guy who thinks he's Santa Claus. Literally, that's been the only two options of how

a town gets started. And a lot of times they start a college because, I don't know, that seems to be what they do here. Indoctrinate people. That's absolutely. And when they did start that college, guess what they did? They changed the name to Collegeville.

Yes. Which is very creative. Yeah. Very right on the nose. They weren't fucking around. They weren't trying to be creative. They're just like, when people come here, we want them to know exactly what to expect. College.

All right, good. Just a college. They almost named it after the smooth roads. And then they said, no, the streets, no, we can't. That's too... Smooth road, Pennsylvania. Smooth street, no, that's not going to work. Let's go with Collegeville.

It's a little more... You won't feel a pebble in the asphalt, Pennsylvania. It's too much. It's too much, Billy. It's too much. Stop trying to name shit. What are you doing, Billy? Billy is such a dick, I swear to God.

It's too wordy, Billy. You've got to simplify the shit. The Percomian Bridge and the Percomian Bridge Hotel are listed on the National Register of Historic Places, which is wonderful. That and the bell. Absolutely. It's kind of a growing area, and it kind of grows and dies with kind of companies coming in and out. Yeah, it's one of those type of things here. It has, like, they have, right outside of here is Pfizer has a big pharmaceutical division.

Pfizer. Why do I know that? That's a drug company. And who do they, what do they make? Huge drug company. Oh, yes. They make dick-hardening pills is what they make, Jimmy. That's where I was going.

Any chance to throw a dick in there, I'm... He's like, I can't really make a dick joke out of this, but I can bring up a dick. But we can hint around what they do. I can bring up a dick. But we can hint around what they do. I can bring up a dick. They focus on the dick. They definitely do. Also, Dow Chemical, who probably does bad things to your dick, I don't think. I don't think they help your dick at all.

That's why they need Pfizer there. Yeah. Also, a GlaxoSmithKline research and development facility. What do they do? It's another drug company. Oh, is it? Yeah. Oh, Jesus.

This is like pharmaceutical row here. Oh, I like it. This is Silicon Valley of pharmaceuticals. That's exactly what this is. Crunchy Silicon Valley. I like it. Yeah, it's super weird. Just smooth street valley.

Notable people from here. A couple of interesting people here. We have Joe DeRosa, the stand-up comic. Oh, he's fantastic. Yeah, the New York comic, New York-based comedian. The Bloodhound Gang. Oh, the bad touch song, New York-based comedian. The Bloodhound Gang. Oh, the fucking Bad Touch song. That's exactly right.

They are from here. A couple of, see, I'm not a big Howard Stern guy, but you are. A guy named Mark the Bagger. Oh, Jesus. He's a creep. I don't know. Well, he's from here. He's from here.

That's not shocking knowing what went on in this place. If you heard his voice, his voice is probably very stereotypical of the town. It's just this fucking, I can't describe it. You have to Google him and look on YouTube and find Mark the Bagger talking, and you'll be like, this is gross. I definitely will. Also, this is sad, too. You know that they're digging for things to put, but we need notable. We need something notable.

We have Mark the Bagger on our website. We got to find somebody else. This is even sadder because they have CM Punk, the wrestler, listed on here. But he only lived here between December 2003 and August 2005. It was like court ordered. He lived there for like a year and a half. And they're like, let's just put him on Wikipedia. It's fine.

He stopped in for a minute. He's been here. He had an apartment for a while. He signed a fucking lease. It's so strange. I was like, he lived here for a year for a minute. He's been here. He had an apartment for a while. He signed a fucking lease. It's so strange. He lived here for a year and a half. What the hell? That's hilarious.

It's not like George Washington lived there for a year and a half. It's CM Punk. That's not even his real name. I would hope not. I would hope not. People in this town, population 5,287. Wow. So 5,287, not a huge town.

It's so weird. From 1990 to 2000, we had a good jump in population. And from 2000 to now, they are down 35% in population. What happened between that time? Probably one of those plants. Dick pills. Dick pills were created. Well, I would think that would blow the town's population up.

Be like, everybody, go to the dick pill mecca of the world. But apparently, this is what I mean. Like, if one of those plants opens, a bunch of new people move there. If one of those plants closes, a bunch of fucking people run away from there, screaming, running and screaming, trying to sell their homes. When did C.R. Punk live there? In 2005? 2003 to 2005.

Okay, so a year and a half in that time. Yeah, a year and a half. It's like, seriously. Weird thing here. Actually, it's not very weird if you think about the fact that there's a big college there or a decent sized college. Median age in this place is by far the lowest we've ever had here.

Average is 37.4 years old. That's normal. That's the average. Here it is 21.8. What? So very young crowd. Oh, that is super college. Super young crowd. Well, yeah, it's a college town, man. It's just exactly what it is. They aren't fucking around. No, they are not. The female male population is out of whack here also.

And I don't know if this has to do with faculty of the college being female a lot because a lot of times there's more faculty, more female faculty and administrative support and that sort of thing in education. Not that that's for any reason, but it just seems to work out that way. 56.5% female. Wow. So it's normally just under 51%. So that's for any reason, but it just seems to work out that way. 56.5% female. So it's normally just under 51%. So that's a lot. That's an at-a-whack, way lower married population, just what you would expect from college kids. Higher single population, higher population of people without children. Do more girls go to college than men?

I believe they do, actually, too. I don't know why I say girls. It's women. I believe they do, actually, too. They end up nowadays why I say girls. It's women. I believe they do, actually, too. They end up nowadays more women go to college than men. Oh, 56%? A higher percentage probably about that much. You never know.

Do you see the median age in America is 37? 37.4. That's wild. We say it every week. How come I don't know that? Where the hell have you been in 32 weeks before this? How come I haven't absorbed that in 32 weeks? Last week we had a town that hit it exactly on the head.

Right on the head, yeah. I was excited. I was like, holy shit, we did it. They're average. I was pumped. I didn't put together that, we did it. They're average. I was pumped. But then I didn't put together that I'm average. Yeah, you're exactly average. You have two kids.

You are exactly average, Jimmy. Perfect. And a dog. Put on those plaid shorts and those orange shoes and get moving like you like to wear to record. That's me. Definitely. About a third of the widowed population, half the divorced population. So they're kids.

Let's just say that much. Racially, the breakdown here, about 82% white. So it's pretty white. But, you know, you're outside of Philly. You're in the Northeast, so there's other people. 6.4% black, which is about half the normal, the average population, I should say. Asian, for the first time ever, I think, we have a higher than average Asian population. They have Asians.

Yay, everybody. So there's confetti falling from the ceiling right now, everybody, about the Asians. I will give you a lot of credit for not singing some stereotypical Asian song. I didn't sing me Chinese, me play joke or anything like that. This was just a, I'm excited that they're allowing a more diverse group of people. 6.31% Asian as opposed to the normal about 5%. That's great. Yeah, it's good for them.

Yeah. Good for you guys moving on in there. Religion here, very high, which is strange. 65% of these people are religious. Wow. Which is very odd. For college kids? For college kids.

Well, I think it's a religious-based school, which that, whatever. But still, you'd think they'd just be pretending. Yeah. You know what I mean? But on a census form, they're going to say yes. Yes, exactly. Just in case somebody checks that shit. They break down 30, almost 39% Catholic, Catholic, the Baptists of the North.

You betcha. Or the Mormons of the East, however you want to say it. That's my favorite thing ever. That's great. So if you are Catholic, you need to to say it. That's my favorite thing ever. That's great. So if you are Catholic, you need to get that shirt. Catholics, the Baptists of the North, the Mormons of the East. 0.35% Jewish, so they have a couple of Jewish people there. Fuck it, we're making that shirt.

We are. That's what I mean. You're going to hopefully buy that shirt when we now make it. A little under half of a percent are Muslim, so they have a little bit of diversity here all around. Voting-wise, 56% of the people are Democrats, 42% Republican, which is a younger crowd. You kind of expect that. Low unemployment rate here. Household income is super high for a place.

Yeah, because it's a college town. I guess there's good jobs, and they have the plants there, too. Household income here, average household income, $105,000. Average. Average, which is the normal median average income is $53,482. It's twice. So it's almost twice the average income here. Holy shit.

It's not bad. Dick pills make money. Dick pills be making that cash. You bet. And you can tell, too, by the jobs itself, there's twice as many engineering and computer jobs, all that sort of thing. It's a college town. Yeah.

Administrative support's way up. All the blue collar, the construction, transportation, that's all a quarter of what it normally is. So we know what we're doing here. We know what we have here with these people. High, too. They have like the I found a breakdown for like what people get paid in certain industries in this. Pretty incredible. Just looking at it here.

Like you can make just management. The average is eighty two and a half thousand dollars a year for just like management. So I don't know what you're managing. I guess you're managing the dick pill conveyor belt. You're making sure everything's green, babe. Yeah. Oh, God, that's a bad. I love Lucy episode.

Keep stuffing them in. That's a terrible one. Jamming them in there. That's not good. I'll tell you that right now. It's so hard. It's so scary. I can't anymore.

I'm seeing visions. Lucy, you got such a cock on you. Oh, man. Look at you, Lucy. Jesus Christ. I never realized you were so... You're very engorged, Lucy. You are well endowed, Shug. Cost of living here, we do $100,000 being par average.

Here, it's a little high, $130,000, which to be expected, it's all the income. Also, just the Northeast, it's going to be a little higher, especially outside of Philly. It's not out in the boondocks or anything like that. A lot of high things. Utilities are a little higher, especially outside of Philly. It's not out in the boondocks or anything like that. A lot of high things. Utilities are a little higher. Everything else is pretty normal. Housing is super high. 177 of 100.

So housing is up there here. Median home costs $328,400. What the fuck? Yeah, average is $185,000 in the United States. That's like Australia prices. Yeah, exactly. That's bananas. 75% of the houses are between $'s like Australia prices. Yeah, exactly. That's bananas. 75% of the houses are between $200,000 and $400,000, a lot between that $300,000 and

$400,000 range. If we have convinced you so far, if you're like, where can I get on that conveyor belt? Where can I get in that I Love Lucy episode? We've convinced you to move here. We have for you the Collegeville, Pennsylvania Real Estate Repair. Oh, baby. Two-bedroom apartment there goes for actually higher than the average. It goes for about $1,200 a month, which is almost $200 a month higher than the average.

The house is, too, a little pricey. I found a townhouse here. This is an attached townhouse to somebody else. Three-bedroom, three-bath, 1,800 square foot. It's a pretty big townhouse. But it's still not a house house for $299,000. And that seemed like a bargain from what I found. That was like, oh, not bad.

I found a four bedroom, three bath. This is a really nice house. 3,000 square feet brick. Nice back east house here. Pillars out front. Yeah, nice $646,000 for that. Holy shit. Yeah, it's chunky.

You're going to feel that one. Every month. You just want to get a tent, pitch a tent, and go attend the college here. I'll put some fake pillars up. You can do that. You can get a.29 acre lot on Sites Road for $285,000. A quarter acre lot. With not a damn thing on it, but blades of grass for $285,000. A quarter acre lot. With not a damn thing on it, but blades of grass for $285,000.

Yeah, you'd think this is like there's oil under there or something. Some sort of valuable resource. There's gold. There's dick pills under this dirt. So maybe that's what it is. My God. Things to do here. Things to do in Collegeville, as you can imagine.

Count your pills. Oh, you can count them and stuff them all in your mouth. Saturday, September 9th, guys, buckle up, get ready. Yeah. Batten down the hatches for the colossal community yard sale. What? Oh, baby. The Collegeville Economic Development Corporation will again hold its annual colossal community yard sale.

It's all college kids. What is it going to be? Gather your shit. Some broken ass lamps. Bunch of old hot plates. There you go. Thanks. Here's my beanbag chair with questionable stains all over it.

Don't even ask. Don't ask. Don't worry. Just hose it down before you give it to your kids. Could be mine. Could be some other dude. This is going to be from 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. at the Waterworks Park. For additional information, please call 610-454-1050.

Four hours of people buying other people's shit. Other people's crap in public. Now, oh, here we go. Now, September 10th, the next night. The very next day. You're all worn out from the garage sale. You sold everything. You got a few extra bucks in your pocket.

A couple, yeah. Or maybe you've got a bunch of extra hot plates that you purchased for a very, very reasonable price. The very next night, head over to Collegeville Park, which is 3rd and Park Avenue, for the huge Summer Park concert series. Oh, boy. Who'd they book? It's a band starting at 6 p.m., so we'll get them in there before dark. Get in early, yeah. Elastic Karma is the name of the band.

What in the fuck is that? They're a Beatles tribute band. Your favorite, Jimmy. Gross. Oh, yeah. They're going to be doing the Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club band album. Of course they are. They're going to play that. Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart Club band album. Of course they are. They're going to play that.

Somebody bring tomatoes. Unbelievable, man. And Crime Rate, what we are interested in here. That's the only act? That's the act, baby. Jesus. That's it. It says...

Oh, the whole album. It says to bring a chair or blanket and enjoy an evening of good music or whatever the hell... So you can fall asleep. Whatever the hell these guys do. These guys are going to play. Whatever the hell. Good music or whatever's provided to you. One or the other.

Crime rates, like I said, what we're interested in here, property crime, burglary, theft, etc., all that sort of thing here. It's about 35% lower than the average, which is what I'd expect higher from a college town, honestly. I'd expect them to be just being idiots, going out vandalizing

shit. Is that an iPod? I need that. Yeah. Breaking a window, that sort of thing. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, assault. Just over half the average. So that's great. That's almost half the average. Very safe.

Which is insane because, again, college town, they must be pretty religious. These students are not even raping each other. I mean, it's a college town with a low rape rate. With zero date rape recorded. How often does that happen? I mean, honestly, I don't know if they're not reporting them or what the hell's going on there. But it's going well for them in that regard. So it's a safe little nice town.

It's nice. You go 45 minutes outside of the streets of Philly and you get this nice little college town. You know that hustle bustle, piss smelling town. Yeah, man. You get out there. Well, there's still going to be pissed because like we said, the people from Philly come just to piss on the smooth roads. Just because it's so clean.

So clean. Eagles fans of fucking lunatics. They are. They're pissing everywhere. Everywhere. So let's talk about a situation that didn't work out quite as well as the average town situation worked out. It's not very violent.

But here, let's talk about Lisa Marie Mandirak. Okay. Okay. She's born in 1965. Okay. We're going to catch up with her here in the mid-90s. We're going to catch up with her in 1995. Okay.

But before that, let's kind of, a little brief synopsis of her here. She has two brothers and a sister. She grew up in Pennsylvania. She has a husband named James that she married. These people seem like very, very nice, happy people. They seem to have a nice little life that they're very, very happy about. She graduated in 1983 from Norristown High School. It's so funny, too, because it's not funny, but in some of these cases, I'll present the story and I'll put it out and I'll kind of obfuscate who's going to be the killer. A couple back in Connecticut a couple times ago, it was like,

introduce this guy who's like a male stripper and a meth addict and all this. He's going to be the killer. That's got to be him. But no, it turns out to be the sister's, you know. The lawyer. The lawyer, yeah. The fucking professional. Upstanding, yeah.

So sometimes it's like that, and then sometimes you just start, you know, I'll start reading off about a person, I'll be discussing this person, and you're like, oh, she's going to get killed. That person's too nice. She's definitely going to die here. There's no doubt about it. And it's one of these things that's, you know, it sucks to do, but it's the way it is, because this lady was a nice lady.

She really was. They lived in Limerick Township, which is like next town over, 10 minutes away from Collegeville. They had, she's a, they're real church-going people. They go to the St. Clair Lutheran Church in Linfield. She's a member there. She's a volunteer for Meals on Wheels. Oh, Jesus.

That's how, that's what I mean. When you start reading, when I'm reading this and I'm researching this, I'm like, oh, she's, that's nice. You didn't even have to preface all that. As soon as you said she's a volunteer for Meals on Wheels, I'm like, she didn't kill anybody. It's like, ah, she's a volunteer for Meals, yeah, she's poisoning old people's food. That's a case we're going to find of

poisoning Meals on Wheels worker. I'm going to look for that next, but, so I mean, she's just a nice person, a nice couple. They seem happy. February 4th, 1994, they have a daughter, James and Lisa, a daughter named Devon, or Devin Mandarack. So, I mean,

life is going well for them. You know what I mean? They're hard workers. They had a new house at this point. They have a house, a new baby. They're making a life. She drives a forklift, but she's, like, happy with that. They're making a life. She drives a forklift. But she's like happy with that. It's not like, oh, this poor woman drives a forklift.

She's psyched about the forklift. She seems to make good money. She works for a company called Fleming, which is a food distributor in King of Prussia. They even also, too, they're like, they're a little ambitious, too. They have a little janitorial service on the weekend that they do together. It's her business. James and Lisa. Yeah, they do it together. They go out together and clean offices on the weekend and that sort of together. It's her business. James and Lisa. Yeah, they do it together.

They go out together and clean offices on the weekend and that sort of thing. It's great. She's very Pennsylvania. Very Pennsylvania. Very Pennsylvania. But they're making a nice life for themselves. Good for you guys. You know what I mean?

Everything's fine. September 10th, 1995. She's running around. She's doing some errands. She comes in, stops by. It's a Sunday. And her husband here is watching football. Of course.

James is watching football because it is Pennsylvania. Yeah, well, maybe the Eagles are 45 minutes outside. So he's watching football on a Sunday, hanging out. She's just, you know, running back and forth doing little errands. Steelers are winners. He's reviewing Steelers. Yeah, he's going. He's going with the winners. I don't know.

45 minutes outside of Philly, that might get you killed. We'll see what happens. It's possible. That state. I don't know. 45 minutes outside of Philly, that might get you killed. We'll see what happens. It's possible. That state is definitely two different sides. One side's the East Coast. One side's the Midwest. It's a Pennsylvania. I like Pennsylvania, but it's a super weird state.

It's bizarre. I have a lot of relatives in Scranton. It's the weirdest fucking place I've ever been in my life. It's the strangest accent. It's the weirdest people. They were drunk as shit all the time I had a cousin who would drive to the bar through the woods and back because he's like

not going to get a DUI in the woods are you and I'm like where am I driving me through the woods pitch black in the dark in the dark shit face what are we doing the movie Invincible was produced and put out by Disney and they had a hard time making those people look wholesome.

That's what I mean. They were still in the bar every damn night. Yeah. So this Lisa, she's stopping in and out, and like I said, she stops at one point and drops him off some cigarettes. So he gets cigarettes, and then she says she's going to run out. She'll be back in a little while. She's taking the baby with her, one-year-old baby at this point. What is she, 17 months old, something like that.

Taking the baby here with her. She doesn't even take the diaper bag. She's like, I'm going to be back real quick. So fast this baby won't even be able to shit. Won't even. And if she does, it won't be enough to give her a rash. It's fine. I'll be right back.

She's saying, you know, probably be back within an hour is what she's saying. No problem. She tells her husband she's going to go to Collegeville. There's a new children's clothing store there that she really wants to check out. She's got an exciting day going on here. You know, he's like, ooh, yeah, I'm going to stay here and watch football. That sounds great. But I am just bushed.

I can't do it today. He looked at how much time was left on that clock, and he was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, go, go. The game's got 20 minutes, so get the hell out of here. Well, this is 3 o'clock, too, so this is like fourth quarter of the 1 o'clock East Coast game. So, yeah, if the Eagles are on, he's like, yeah, whatever. I don't care. Go, whatever. It's close.

So she's going to a new kid's store called Your Kids and Mine, and the kids is with a Z, which is always a bad sign, but it is the 90s, and everything was spelled with a Z in the 90s and that meant it was cool. Especially Jimmy Z. Oh, God. Everything that had an S on it in the 90s was, we'll just stick a Z on it.

That makes it like the kids like it then. Okay. I was a kid in the 90s. I didn't like it. Why is everything got a Z? This is ridiculous. And also, too, with all the Zs on everything, you also had fucking zebra print on everything.

What was that? That's the dumbest thing for boys. And do you know what they put it on the most? Zuba pants, also with a Z, those goddamn Zs. Keep it out of here. Let's talk about a kid. I don't know how kids got away with not putting a Z on the end of their shit. Because they put zebra print on those bastards, too.

Yeah, what's up with that? So she gets in her 1988 Pontiac firebird you bet she has that an 88 firebird man that's so pennsylvania that's very pennsylvania like that yeah i could think of like high school i know a lot of kids are driving an 88 pontiac firebird you know like back east uh so she hops in there she rides to collegeville going to your kids and mine tops open tea oh you know the t-tops are open. Yeah, T-Tops open. She's cruising. She's got Bon Jovi on the stereo.

I feel like his jersey's just, it's like an hour over there. So I feel like she's got that cruising. The baby's banging her head already. She knows what's up. Everybody's happy. And they pull up to the store here, the Your Kids and Mine in Collegeville, and they find a young man here, an interesting young fellow, let's talk about, named Caleb Fairley. Okay, he's 21 years old.

He is a, the best way to describe him, because you kind of have to describe his physical nature. It's impossible not to. He is a dumpy, he's like comic book guy from The Simpsons is a good way to describe him. He's this, but goth. He's like a dumpy, The Simpsons is a good way to describe him. He's this, but goth. He's like a dumpy, he's a big, heavy set guy, not very attractive. Like the guy from Mallrats that couldn't see the sailboat? It's pretty much him. Yeah?

It's pretty much that guy. I'm in. Except not angry. Okay. Except real like kind of calm and keeps to himself. One of those people people you know them in school when they're you see them get picked on yeah remember that you'd see somebody get picked on and they'd take it in a weird way yeah where they just absorb it and you're just like that's

not right why are you processing that like you're just like yeah it's a very weird thing and i guess you know whatever the way you process it is the way you process it but you think like that's not it's an abnormal reaction to what's happening in front of you. There's this weird, odd calmness. Very strange. He his parents own the store. His mother, Ruth, just opened it a few weeks prior, which is why there's a Z on it, because it opened in the mid 90s.

So, yeah, it's a children's boutique. It's, you know, whatever. It's a nice little kid's store that if you're a new mom in the area, you're going to go check out at this point here. He is working at the store. It's a nice little kid's store that if you're a new mom in the area, you're going to go check out at this point here. He is working at the store. It's a Sunday. He's working alone at the store. It's just him there. Parents are like, we need a day off.

The father also owns a pharmacy, which we'll talk about later. Don't worry. He's got some shady shit going on there. But his mother, she runs this children's boutique. He is, I guess, for all intents and purposes, managing it this day, just hanging out. Not a football fan. He accepts the Sunday shift.

Yeah, I don't think he minds. Yeah, his dad's like, you take the Sunday shift. You don't know anything about football. You've never picked up a ball of any kind in your entire life. He is always disheveled. He never puts himself together. Always considered an oddball, kind of the town weirdo. People used to screw with him a lot.

How does mom not know the town weirdo doesn't need to be at store by self? You know what I mean? Yeah, you would think so. But he's 21, and they're just going to – this is the thing we're going to find out with his parents. They're going to just push a lot of shit under the carpet. They're pretty affluent. He owns a pharmacy she's opening kids boutiques they have money and they they just it's he's an inconvenience it feels like to their personas you know like we are like an affluent nice couple and we got fat boy here you know in the basement uh jerking off to dungeons

and dragons we can't have this like this is weird. She opened this boutique to get his ass out of the house one day a week. I think just to get him to do something. And it's like, well, we'll make him work. You know, so what's the worst that can happen? Right. You know, that sort of thing. A guy from high school here, a guy named James Myers, talked about Caleb in high school. He said, quote, not many people paid attention to him.

And if they did, they would pick on him. So he's just ignored and quiet unless they want to pick on him. Unless they want to fuck with the kid. Exactly, which is completely ridiculous. And kids are such assholes, man. They really are. They really are such assholes.

I would love to just go through like a middle school, just backhanded kids. Like, stop it. Stop being a dick. Stop it. Stop being an asshole. I don't understand what's wrong with these kids. I got punched on Friday at dick. Stop it. Stop being an asshole. I found out my daughter got punched on Friday

at school and she told the teacher and the kid got talked to and that was it. I found that out yesterday. My blood is boiling still. I want to go in there and knock the shit out of him. In his defense, he probably weighs like 33 pounds. I don't think he knows

how to punch from the back leg either. But still, still, you can't be punching girls here. That's a problem. But this picking on somebody who's different and really, there's a lot of people that picked on him. He would, he's really into porn. Oh boy. Super into porn, as you'd imagine.

Yeah. Imagine a 21 year old kid who has never had a girlfriend who has no, he's going to be pretty into porn, I would imagine. The only time he's had any attention from anybody is when they picked on him he's gonna be at home fantasizing about a time that they don't that they don't and this yeah so so he's very into porn videos and uh you know reading materials that sort of thing this is pre-internet you have to remember this is 94 where a nerd on paper a nerd couldn't even jerk off to the internet. He had to have physical videos and magazines and things like that. Brutal.

So shitty. Very slow loading speeds back then. So prehistoric. Not going to work. Got to adjust the tracking to see everything. Oh, Jesus. Very into Dungeons and Dragons also. Huge.

Very, very big deal for him. He's hugely into it. Also something called Vamp vampire the masquerade don't look at me i don't know what that is i'm not into uh uh the the the nerdly arts as much as some people are um and i'm not picking on the nerdly arts my daughter is 15 and loves dnd yeah she loves shit like that she's like an artist and all that she thinks it's fun yeah but she's not like this guy as we'll get into hopefully hopefully this doesn't turn into this situation or I'm in trouble. He's like just the quintessential dude that lives in the basement with the Dungeons and

Dragons, the vampire stuff, the constant tugging. That's what he is. Oh, he's a basement dweller to the max. He's the type of guy who's going to be 45 years old and still living in his parents' basement. Still tugging like mad. Still tugging away and just going, Mom, don't come down here without knocking. Stop putting my laundry away. Just leave it at the top until john was cleaning leave

it at the top of the steps all right just don't come down here uh he uh also uh would he had a kind of a small group of of people that were like the the town goths you know and they would dress up and do shit like that they'd dress up a vampire, dress up like whatever and do like, they did the LARPing, live action role play where they dress up and pretend. The future Ren Faire fucking cast. Yes, this kid would have thrived at a Ren Faire. He really would have. If it was a Renaissance Faire town instead of a college town, this kid would be king,

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So don't wait. That's blueapron.com. Blue Apron, a better way to cook. And now back to the show. In high school, he was a choir boy, but he was also picked on a lot. He graduated high school and just didn't do very much. You know what I mean? Didn't do very much.

Had a little incident with the law. He had an accusation of sexual harassment in 1992. Apparently there was a female jogger. He was accused of lewd catcalling and groping. So I don't know. She was running by and he started saying shit and then he's like, let me go up and grab her. He was probably in the middle of tugging when she ran by.

That's an interesting decision to make. But he was 18 years old when he did that, 18, 19. That's pretty young to be groping joggers, isn't it? But when he's repressed as much as he is, and it's probably just an act out emotion, just, there's one. I got to touch it. But like a jogger. Like you think he would be like that.

Have you seen a girl jog before? That's like out in the open, though. You'd think he would be more like getting a fly in a web type of thing let's get her let's get into my basement type of thing i would think get her to my safe place and from 1990 ish she started working uh in 1990 in high school just you know a series of shit jobs you have when you're 15 to 20 years old uh he worked at a friendlies restaurant you know what friendlies is it was the place that makes sandwiches, right? And ice cream.

Very good ice cream. It's a back east kind of a chain, I guess, diner-y type thing. We had one in one of these stories before, didn't we? Yes, we did. We had a Friendly's in a very early... Yeah, he was trying to give that... That was his fucking alibi. Yeah.

Nobody saw him. I was at Friendly's. What are you talking about? Everybody knows... No, you weren't. I was at Friendly's. Seriously. And he worked there.

Yes. This guy works there. Yeah, not at that. That was Rainham, Massachusetts. No, you weren't. I was at Friendly's. Seriously. And he worked there. Yes. This guy works there. Yeah, not at that. That was Rainham, Massachusetts. No, no. He was Dunkin' Donuts. I don't know. We'll figure it out.

Doesn't matter. Anyway, go back and check. There you go. There's an assignment for everybody. Go back to the beginning. Listen to all the episodes. Tell us which one that was. And tell us which one that was.

That's perfect. Okay, so outside of high school, yeah, they would even pick on him at the Friendly's. Okay. Like, if you're getting picked on at work like this, this is really weird here. The same guy that James Myers worked with him also was at high school and he said people constantly picked on him. He would

go in the bathroom and the guys would, this is such 20-year-old idiot behavior, the guys 18-year-old, the guys would kick open the stall door while he was in there and go, what are you doing in there, Caleb? Like insinuating he was jerking off in there, which he was half the time. That's the other thing is we'll get into.

He just can't stop jerking off. You don't kick the door in on somebody and say, what are you jerking off? You just know that they're jerking off. And he would never do anything, though. He would just say, leave me alone. He'd just continue talking. He'd just say, leave me alone. That's it.

He just wouldn't even like, he wouldn't give in and do the response um he just but has to be left alone the the co-worker also said quote i've never seen him in a fight i've never even seen him push anyone so he's seen him get picked on for years nothing ever happened uh so we're at the store he's a pants down pisser oh you know he is all the way down to the ankles yeah he definitely takes his shirt off to shit, I feel like. He's got to get some air. It's good company. Sitting on there.

Well, he's doing it because he's like, whew, boy, I am just. I am sweaty. I am sweaty. It is human. I've been tugging all day. I'll tell you, I got a lot going on. So he's in the store afternoon, Sunday afternoon. Football's on.

He couldn't care less. He's thinking about whatever goth adventures he's going on. Vampire costumes he's going to be putting on that night. And Lisa and Devin come in the store and they're the only customers there. It's late afternoon. It's Sunday so I assume the store probably isn't open much later.

She gets up there. She gets in there around 3.30ish. She's the only, they're the only three in the store. Lisa, the baby and they're the only three in the store. Lisa, the baby, and Caleb are the only three in the store. He realizes,

this is my net. This is my web. He found his safety. This is my web here. This isn't a jogger out in the street. Maybe I can, you know,

work with this, which I don't know, I don't know what kind of a sick mind A, decides I'm going to go attack a woman, but also, two, I'm going to go attack a woman who's holding a small child is even next level. That's next level bizarre.

That's, yeah. I mean, most. But you got to take what you can get when you're a fucking predator. You know what I mean? Yeah, but most of these predators, though, they have very specific things that they're looking for and things that they're not looking for. Most of them, if they see a woman carrying a one-year-old baby that just came into their store that their parents own, they go, not the best situation, probably. Not for me.

Not great. But BTK broke into a house, and a woman had the flu, and he still raped and murdered her. That's true. In the middle of it, she got sick, and he kept going. Yeah, that's the truth. That is. People are sick bastards, but he wouldn't have done that, I don't think, if she came to his house.

Yeah. Like, hey, I'm here for a sales call. It's very strange. Anyway, although Jerry Brudos did do that. Yeah, he did. He had the encyclopedia salesman moment. Anyway, he grabs Lisa, and she's obviously very frightened by this, grabs her and pulls her behind a clothing rack in the store. Like, tries to, like, wrestle her down to the ground.

It's a great place to take her. Yeah, behind a clothing rack. My daughter's gotten in one of those, and I couldn't find her for like an hour. I used to hide in there when I was a kid for my mom. She'd be looking for me for a half hour. He's sitting there giggling. Yeah. Well, there's nobody's giggling here.

I'll tell you that right now, because he's pulling her behind a clothing rack. She's scared shitless, obviously. He initially tries to rape her. That's the plan here. I guess he's bottled up. I don't know what his problem is. He's got some aggression here. She fights back, though.

Good for her. She's tough. Yeah, good for you, Lisa, because she's tough. And she's got her baby there. She's got her baby. She's fighting for her life. Survival instinct. Yeah.

I mean, you're in a situation. He locked the doors, by the way, before he pounced on her, too, where she was like, hey, what's going on here? Who knows? Maybe she thought he was going to the bathroom for five seconds or didn't want people coming in the store. I don't know, but I assume that would have been a warning sign. Nothing you can do about it, though.

You're in a locked room at that point, and then he attacks her. So she's fighting for her life. She scratches him on the face quite a a bit really does really gets him good uh so he can't rape her because she's fighting back so he decides to strangle her instead so now it's too late it's too yeah it's that's the thing what are you gonna do now you go never mind right and let her go just kidding just kidding yeah never mind sorry yeah the eagles games almost you can you can catch the ending. Yeah, we both go to the Eagles.

But I mean, what else can you do? In his mind, he's, shit, I got to do something here. I can't do this. So he strangles her. And she is at this point, too. She's 29 years old. She's going to be 30 in three weeks. Like we said, her life is up and coming.

She's delivering goddamn meals to elderly people for shit's sake. There's a baby in this place, too. meals to elderly people for shit's sake there's a baby in this place too yeah let's not forget about the fact that there's a baby who's likely screaming yeah let's say it's a matter of fact absolutely as he knocks her to the ground well after she while she was holding the baby uh there's a you know strangling the mother to death the baby tends to cry at this point. So he says, well, we can't have this. This is very inconvenient. Better make it two strangles.

Oh, boy. So now he strangles a 17-month-old baby. So now he strangled a nice young mother, a nice family, and a nice everything, and a child who's done absolutely nothing. Not that Lisa did anything either, but this child doesn't even know what the hell's going on. Right.

Like, she doesn't even, this is insane here. That kid can't even talk. Ridiculous. What he does at this point is, we'll find out a little more of what he does later on, but basically here, he vacuums and cleans the carpet and everything, and, you know, he's trying to cover his tracks immediately. He's not like a psychopath out on the warpath, doesn't know what he's doing. He wraps the baby's body in a bag and takes them into his car and drives out to Valley Forge National Park where he tosses the baby.

Oh, fuck. Tosses the baby over an embankment down a hill like he had a can of soda that he didn't want to recycle. Like literally that's what he did. Just tosses the baby away like it's garbage. And that made me, because it's like it's one thing. Obviously, anybody's killing babies. It's a bad deal. We've had these child killers before.

But like a lot of times they'll either leave them where they are or they'll hide them under floorboards of a house somewhere. Hide them under floorboards or even bury them or some sort of stuff. He just tossed, like, this is an inconvenience for me. I don't want this. This is a bottle that's been rolling around on the floorboards of my car for a while. And I don't feel like stopping it again. Every time I hit the goddamn brakes, this hits the floor. Hits the floor.

Hits that metal piece on the chair and makes a dink noise. It's ridiculous, man. It's horrible. He takes Lisa, though, to a separate location, takes her to a separate location that turns out, and this turns out to be a big key here, is pretty near a gym where he used to go. First of all, I'm shocked that this guy went to a fucking gym. It feels like his parents forced him to go to a gym. Like, we buy you a membership, you're going to go, and he'd go and just sit there.

He'd go watch somebody on that leg press and then go in the locker room and get out. That's it. Yeah. That's it. He's like, ah, fuck it. I guess I can do that. He'd go watch somebody on the treadmill. He likes joggers.

Yeah, that's not, you're probably not far off. That's the sad part. Bounce, bounce, bounce, girls. That's the sad part. You're probably not far off with this guy here. What he does now, he has a dead woman in the woods, Lisa, let's give her a name because she's a person. Lisa

has got her body and he is near a gym behind an industrial building in a small wooded area. So he decides now I can sexually assault her. Now that she can't fight back. So now we've gone completely... It's off the rails.

Now he's a necrophiliac on top of this shit, which is insane. And this is, by the way, the second time he's had some sexual contact with this body. Because also at the store, right after he killed them both, he had to masturbate on and around her. Which is why he had to clean up the carpet and all that, because he made a mess. Yeah, I was thinking about that a second ago, too. Like, there's no blood. Maybe she gurgled or whatever. No, that's what it was. He's cleaning up his tongue. I wanted to wait up the carpet and all that because he made a mess. Yeah, I was thinking about that a second ago too. Like there's no blood. Maybe she gurgled or whatever. No, that's what it was.

I wanted to wait till this to get to that. But yeah, that's. Good grief. So then he leaves her outside. She's naked. Leaves her outside naked with just a lace top on. She has like an undershirt top thing, like a whatever. Like a slip or whatever.

Like a slip thing. And with her legs spread in a sexual way. Like stages her. Literally stages. Didn't just dump her there and was like, okay, I got to get away. He staged her there. Also put it so her hair, she has long black hair. Her hair, he put it over her eyes, like to the side.

So like you couldn't see her eyes. Like a sleeping mask? I don't know if it's like that or like he didn't, you know. Couldn't look at the eyes. Well, also, too, a lot of times these guys will do all that and then they don't feel good about it. Yeah. And then they hide some weird part. Yeah. You have to think about what the little peccadillo is in this guy's mind because shit has short-circuited.

Yeah. This isn't like, oh, you open the hood and you're like, oh, that of your car, that hose is broken. Obviously, it's broken. This, you're opening the hood and there's a fire. Not even. This is like something little in there that you don't even know. And that little thing causes another little thing to not work. And it's like this chain reaction.

Like a short and a wire. Yeah. That's what I mean when these people stage these things. It's like they want to do this and they need to do this and they stage it. It's like they want to do this and they need to do this and they stage it, but then they feel, I don't know if it's guilty or wrong or bad or whatever the case is, whatever that weird thing that made them not feel weird about raping a dead person and killing their baby and tossing it out the window, but a little weird about leaving her there. That's what I mean. The chemistry of that brain is off by far. What always fascinates me about these things is when they leave a body, somebody's going to find that. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And the psychosis that goes into, I'm going to stage this. You're about to not just fuck your whole family up. You're showing it off. You're going to fuck up whoever finds this body. That's your art project. And that's that John Douglas, the Mindhunter book that we talk about all the time. That's what he always calls it.

He always says, if you want to find the artist, look at the art. That's how he says. Like the profiling guys, they do everything based on crime scene photography. They don't want to know details. They don't want to know shit because they don't want it tainting their thing. They want to look at the pictures, see how this was set up, and they can tell you exactly what this guy is thinking about. If you want to know the artist, look at their art, look at their work. And that's basically what we have here now.

I would never want to see that art as long as I live. At home, James Manderek is wondering where the hell his wife is. She's supposed to be home in an hour. Dinner goes by. Dinner time, it's 9 o'clock. Where the hell is she? The night games almost started. Yeah, so he calls the Limerick Township Police Department, said his wife left at 3 o'clock, gave her all the details.

She said the police right away go out. They knew where she was going. So they look in there. They find her car in the parking lot of the strip mall. So that's a sign here. First, they investigate a local biker gang for a minute, which I thought was an odd... You know, biker gangs, whatever, but

this is an odd thing for a biker gang. She's not somebody to be involved in that. That's what I mean. I don't think she owed them a big load of meth money, I don't think. She's not holding out on the meth sales this week. Some bootleg dick pills or something that they're peddling. Yeah, but then after that, they kind of narrowed it down to the store. on the meth sales this week. Some bootleg dick pills or something that they're peddling. Yeah.

But then after that, they kind of narrowed it down to the store, two different kids' stores and a supermarket in that strip mall, and several witnesses claim they saw Lisa or someone matching her description with the baby go inside of the Your Kids and Mine store. They find that day, before the police are even called, the baby is found. Oh, God. The baby is found that afternoon by a jogger. Which are you more traumatized by, jogging and finding a baby in a bag or by finding the woman in the position that she's in?

The woman in the position she's in by far. I might be the same. Because that's somebody really did some weird shit. Like the baby, at least you're like, oh, it's a doll. And then you're like, eee, no, this is bad. That's what happened. They picked it up, they didn't know what it was, and then it was a baby. And the police had a hard

time. Everybody who saw this scene had a hard time with this baby just being tossed over like that. Your mind can create a different reality. Like with the woman though, there's no other reality there's no other reality it's just i mean there's a fucking monster out there yeah somebody did that very specifically this wasn't oh no somebody might have dropped the baby and they're stupid and they don't know to go to the police and they fucking said they'll throw it out the window i don't know i

dropped it on my head by accident so while all this is going on all this is going on here they find they find the poor baby's body, all this. What is Caleb doing? What is this asswipe doing? Well, he's not going to go home and feel bad about himself or anything like that. He's going to go to a show. He went and saw something. I have plans tonight.

He has entertainment to have. He goes to see, I guess it's a band, Electric Hellfire Club at a place called The Asylum. Okay. That sounds exactly like something somebody that would do that would be doing. Exactly, what they would be into or what this kid would be into. They, you know, like I said, they narrow it down to that store. So the next day they want to talk to him. The next morning they talk to Caleb.

It's September 11th. They said, we want to talk to you. He agrees to be taken to the upper Marion Township Police Station. They question him. They say he's very polite at first. He's wearing heavy makeup on his face. Like heavy, like... Like goth makeup?

Thick makeup. Yeah, like somebody hit him with a big powder puff. Oh. He's wearing, like, thick makeup. I got you. Like, yeah, so... Somebody that has a bunch of scratches on their face would be wearing. You'd think, right?

Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. They were like, they said, well, what's up with this makeup on your face? And he said, no, that's just makeup from the concert last night. Okay. Rock and roll, not killing rape. You know what I mean?

This is what I do. In that order, I mean. I went to a concert. It's fine. So, you know, this is what he's saying here. So they said, can you go wash that shit off your face? Yeah. So they wash it off and behold, tons of scratch marks.

Matter of fact, 10 of them on her face. Like two hands. Like someone's two hands fighting for their goddamn life maybe would do. So they see that. The police said it looks like it came from someone's fingernails. He said, well, it just must have happened in the mosh pit dancing last night. That's what he said. You wouldn't notice, huh?

You don't even notice. You're running around. And he told his friends the night before when they said, what the hell happened to your face? He said that some guy was getting beaten up outside the clothing store, and he had to go out and try to break it up, and he got scratched up in the process. So he was telling his friends two different things. He even pressured one of his friends to try to corroborate the story with him and the guy wouldn't go along with it. But the investigators, they obviously go to examine some places here.

They examine your kid's and mine's store and they find blood and semen. And a good load. Yeah. And pornography he's got there. Oh, God. Taking porn to your parents' store, which is an odd place. Also, too, creepiest of all, peepholes. What?

Created into the dressing rooms. Oh, so creepy. So he could watch people in the dressing rooms. Yes. Disgusting. Also, they get a search warrant for his house. He's got a whole bunch of shit. It's weird because a lot of people have a lot of weird porn and a lot of weird shit like that.

They don't kill people. That happens a lot of people have a lot of weird porn and a lot of weird shit like that. They don't kill people. No. That happens a lot. So they try to make it immediately like that's the cause of it. And the district attorney said, quote, we found that he was a real pervert, all kinds of sexual devices and various perverted stuff. That doesn't do anything. That's not.

It doesn't change. There's people with giant dildo collections that have never even thought to kill anybody, I'm sure. So they go in and they search Caleb's room. They find just a cache of porn. I mean, enough porn to beat the Germans in World War II. We could have dropped it on them like bombs. Role-playing games, all that sort of thing. Tons of vampire literature books.

Another thing they found is what they called a peculiar. It was a black shirt and it had two vampires eating a female and the woman apparently looks exactly like lisa oh shit like exactly like they were like holy shit this is looks exactly like her like literally there uh so they kind of think that at that point they're trying to put in two to two and two together and they're like maybe you know he kind of saw her and this was his fantasy thing, and it came to life, and we'll see. So they get in there, and they're obviously going to arrest him now after all that and the peepholes. Got enough information.

They got enough to hold him on at least, and we'll figure out the murder shit later. But let's just bring him in. He's just the peepholes alone to me. I want him put away forever for that. I hope there was paintings. He was looking through eyes and stuff. Oh, God, yeah, just to make it even weirder. His defense attorney, Mark Robert Steinberg, what he does is he says, hey, tell you what, guys,

because I have a feeling you're going to probably want the death penalty on this one. Yeah. Strangled and sexually assaulted corpse and everything else. Toss a baby over a guardrail. Yeah. Tell you what, though. You don't know where Lisa's body is. That's the thing.

That's what he said? You don't know where her body is, but I know someone who does. Okay. And his name is Caleb. So let's make a little deal here. How about we show you where the body is, and you take death penalty off the table. And the district attorney, a guy named Michael Marino, he was... Leary? Didn't know whether he wanted to do

it or not. But then he finally decided, he said it was the hardest decision he ever had to make. But he said that we need to get to this body earlier rather than later to keep the forensic evidence. Otherwise, we're going to find the body six months from now and we're not going to have anything. It's going to be deteriorated. So Caleb leads them to a wooded area, like we said, near the gym that he used to frequent,

which is another way they kind of tied it to him, behind the industrial building. Leads them there. They see, wow, they come upon the scene and her hair is still in the same way. Yeah, there's some awkwardness to this whole thing here. Marino gets criticized by the community, the district attorney, they're ripping him up for it. They don't want him giving any deals.

And it's like, I could have some logic here. You got a victim. You got a guy that's still alive that lost his wife and kid. Yeah. People are driving near the funeral home where they were going to have the funeral. There was a woman driving back and forth with a big sign that said no deal

on her windows. Like they're, they're like going after this guy viciously and you know he's i understand too i mean he deserves every ounce of fucking anger and and go fuck yourself that they can give him his his reasoning is actually pretty pretty the district attorney's reasoning is pretty sound he says the authorities were close to releasing him we had no evidence yeah we had the baby's body. We had bloodstains on the store carpet and long, dark hairs resembling Lisa's.

But, you know, we didn't. All we've got at this point is a massive load on carpet and a guy that tugs profusely. That's all we've got. And also, too, similar hair in the seat of his car. Yeah. But it's like, yeah, she was in the store. Might have rubbed off. I mean, you can talk your way out of.

You're not going to be arrested for murder based on that. There's a shadow of doubt around all of that. So anyway, they do that. Now, right after this happens, Caleb's lawyer gets off the case. He wouldn't comment on it. He just said, I'm done with this shit. Really? He made the deal and then said, I can't.

I got to run. I got to get out of here. This is not going to be good for my brand, let's just say here. My career is about to shit the bed if I stay on this. Yeah, that's the thing here. So anyway, they're looking for this whole thing, and they say, okay, now we have a link to Farrelly out of this whole thing. We have a link to Caleb. Caleb ends up confessing to the whole thing.

He says basically that just like they thought, Lisa was the girl of his dreams. That was like she was tall, had long, dark hair, pale skin, kind of like a vampire goddess if you were into that sort of, you know, some weird vampire fantasy. And you see this woman and she is what you were looking for. So he says, you know, she was like a vision from the vampire world and he had to do what he had to do here. And he just sounds like he's trying to make it more than it was, and he's just wanted to rape somebody because he's a shithead. That's what it sounds like. That's what I'm at. It got a little out of hand here.

Once they find her, they do discover DNA under her fingernails that are traced back to Caleb, which is a pretty good sign there. Also, more attached, more long, dark hairs with the roots still attached. So that's a struggle. He yanked them. Pulled out or just got pulled out, caught in people's hands or whatever. Also, too, they found a bunch of hair in the vacuum cleaner bag at the store and the baby's DNA on the carpet. Oh, shit. Everything is there.

Basically, he's being held without bail, obviously, and he's being isolated from other inmates at the moment. Yeah, shit. Everything is there, basically. He's being held without bail, obviously. And he's being isolated from other inmates at the moment. Yeah, because they will fuck him up. I goddamn hope so. So September 16th, 1995, they have the funeral. They bury Lisa and her baby in the same coffin together, which is just so sad. I can't imagine this whole family, what they're going through with this whole thing. The town, too, is like just reeling.

They're just like, this is insane. This is like one of our nicest people. And they didn't know what to do about it. One of the residents here said, quote, it was just so unexpected. The night we found out about it, I was scared to take my trash out. No doubt. So, yeah, this guy shook this town. I mean, obviously, we went over the stats.

There's not a lot of violent crime here. This is rare. You know. I mean, obviously, they're not we went over the stats. There's not a lot of violent crime here. This is rare. You know what I mean? Everybody describes Lisa as very happy, very upbeat. Everybody liked her. Not a soul in town had anything else to do but praise for this woman. Another person says it definitely makes you

feel less safe. There are lots of people that are not well and you don't know it until they cross over the line. He kind of shattered this town's idyllic, you know, little Mayberry vibe. Doors are suddenly locked. Oh, they're locked. They were probably locked anyway but now they're like bolted too.

They're like, don't just do the knob lock. Really bolt that bad boy. February 27th, 96, James Mandarack files a wrongful death suit against Caleb and his parents. Yes. And his parents for leaving him in the goddamn store alone. Because they are the bosses.

That's right. He blames the parents for leaving him in charge because he had other incidents, not just the one with the jogger. Apparently there was also, if you do a private investigator goes in, it doesn't just have police records and things like that. You know, private investigator goes in. It's not and doesn't just have police records and things like that. They found numerous assaults, assaultative contact with females before the murders. Wow. So this is not a new thing for him to be weird with the ladies. And so I know it will do. Let's leave him in charge alone in a store for kids where young women. Yeah. We're young. You know, younger women are going to come in with their kids who are vulnerable. Perfect.

And how do you not inspect a place that you own that you don't find the fucking people's when the cops do? How do you not know that shit exists? It's unreal, this whole thing here. So they try to talk to James Fairley for this article. He doesn't want to talk to him. He just wants the father of Caleb. He's at his pharmacy in Phoenixville. He doesn't want to know anything about it.

The trial starts on April 10th of 96. We have the trial for the murder trial starts then. They're trying right away. The defense is trying to get something tossed out. There was a phone call that Caleb made to the district attorney saying that he was aware of what was going on. He asked about the definition of first-degree murder. He says he's aware of what he did, and he's basically just admitting to even the district attorney. They said that he wasn't properly advised of his rights before talking to him, but he wasn't really talking to a cop, but he was talking to an agent.

District attorney, you don't get more of an agent of the government than that. So I guess that makes sense. You were already arrested. Yeah, I don't think it matters. You know your rights. Yeah, I don't think. You led police to a dead body that you've sexually staged. You're very well aware of what's going on. Yeah, it's really silly, that whole thing here.

He pleads not guilty, obviously. There's no insanity defense they can't do because he didn't meet the standard for legal insanity when they did the pretrial things here. And it's hard to claim insanity when you've got a vacuum bag full of shit that you've tried to clean up. That's the thing. You didn't go crazy. You very much. You've got preparation after the fact. And you're like, don't need this baby.

I'm going to go, I'm going to rape this corpse. I'm going to toss this baby. I need some alone time with your mom's body. It's ridiculous, man. The jury, obviously, they moved the case a little bit. The jury sequestered, too, because this is a lot of publicity in a small town like this, a small area. They showed, they talk about in court how the police said when they showed her, showed

Caleb a picture of the toddler that he was suspected of killing, they said he began to shake and cry and all that sort of thing. The detective here, Bruce Seville, said, quote, his lips started to quiver. He had tears in his eyes. He had tears coming down his cheeks, which generally when I see pictures of children, I don't shake and cry. I just don't. If you know that kid and I never seen him before or, you know, I just saw him one time and I'd be like, I don't fucking know. Yeah, sure, I guess. Is that your kid?

I don't want to see the pictures of your fucking kid. No, exactly. Put your kid away there. The defense is saying that should work in his favor, the fact that he was emotional about a kid. He said that the whole point is that the defense is saying they can't argue that he didn't kill them. That's off the table at this point. So he's arguing that he didn't intentionally kill them and that he showed some remorse for it. And he's not that bad of a guy and he's not a monster and he's not this piece of shit monster vampire that they think he is.

It's hard to accidentally kill two people. It's really hard to accidentally strangle to death two people, especially we'll get into the forensics of the deal and exactly what their injuries were. And then you really get a picture of the whole thing. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Even in court, his attorney here says, quote, to the jury, quote, I will take away some of the mystery in this case. Mr. Fairley did commit those killings. Oh, boy. So they're saying it's just all we have to do is get it out of the hands of, you know, of intentional.

He's saying that they should find him guilty of third degree murder, which is a malicious killing without premeditation. It only carries a maximum sentence of 20 to 40 years. Let's get this young man back out on the streets someday, shall we? Yeah. Good we? Yeah. Good God. Yeah. Jesus. District attorney said, quote, on September 10th, this man choked the life out of two

people. He did not dump Lisa's body. He arranged it. Her legs were apart. Her shirt and bra were pulled over her breasts. Her long black hair was pulled over her face. So he is just, they're like, no. There's nothing non-intentional about this.

And accidentally did it. Yeah, like we said, there's DNA under the fingernails. That comes out in court, which doesn't look terrific. Also, too, her blood and saliva were found on his shirt, which is a, you know, how do you explain that? It's ridiculous. Also, the clothing from the baby was found, fibers from that on the carpet. You can't, there's no talking your way out of it. But the defense attorney tries.

He says, quote, every story has two sides to it. Not this one. No, this one has one fucking side to it, where an asshole does some crazy shit for no reason and ruins a fucking family. That's it. That's the side. He says, you know, he just went into work that day. He had no idea they were going to be there. How could it have been premeditated?

I don't care if he premeditated it for a minute and a half once they walked in or for six months. It's still goddamn premeditation. He didn't premeditate her. He just premeditated it's going to happen one night. At some point. I feel like he's been premeditating this since he was 13 probably, I feel like. Now, the forensics here come out. This is very interesting here.

They found a pinch mark on the child's nose. He was holding the child's nose close when he strangled it. Marks on the neck that matched the stitching from the baby's shirt. So he was strangling him probably with the shirt. Pulled his shirt tight around his neck. A fingernail mark on her neck. Also found hemorrhages in the face and eyes, which is what happens when you're strangling somebody and the pressure's there. Yeah, they found that in the mother also.

Child also had bruises to her legs and head and a broken collarbone. Oh, my God. Also, wow. I mean, the medical examiner said it wouldn't take a lot of pressure to strangle a small child, but there would be—it might take longer, actually, to strangle a small child than an adult. It's a weird thing, not a lot of pressure. He says that also these bruises and breaks were not caused by the fall, like the throw over the embankment.

She was already dead. Yeah, these were pre-death. These are not post-mortem wounds here. Beat the shit out of that kid. Beat the shit out of that kid. Also, Lisa had bruises and abrasions. Five of her ribs were broken. Wow.

Five of her ribs were broken. That's not a throat. No. Like they said, most likely from someone kneeling on them. Like a big fat shithead. Small bone in her throat was broken. Which, as they said, happens pretty much exclusively in

strangulation victims. The doctor said, quote, you have to get a hand in there, find it, and squeeze it to break it. Wow. So it's like that. It's pretty obvious here. He said in the closing arguments, again, please find my client guilty of third degree murder.

This is not premeditated. He said, quote, if you're going to commit some kind of premeditated murder, you don't do so during store hours, during back toto-school season at 4.15 in the afternoon. I mean, a thoughtful person doesn't. Yeah, a normal person doesn't. A person who can control their desires doesn't. He says, the defense attorney, quote, it was impossible to know what was on the mind of Caleb Fairley during the murders. Well, I'll take a guess about that. That's true. He could have been thinking about whatever level his troll is at.

That's I'm sure what it was. He said the prosecutor says, quote, premeditation does not require planning or previous thought. Premeditation can be very brief. You look at someone and go, I think I'm going to do that. That's premeditation. That's it. That's it. If you bump into them and they fall down and break their neck, that's an accident.

There's no, it's not a crime of passion. She didn't come in and kick him in the balls and he didn't know what to do, so he strangled her. This is, you walked over to, you locked the door. Once you locked the door, that's it. You didn't even just like, you saw her and your bloodlust just, you jumped at her. No, you went over and locked the door. Let me make sure that this person is trapped in my web. She can you went over and locked the door. That's the fucking key. Let me make sure that this person is trapped in my web.

She can't get away. That's mine. It's crazy. They also talk about the T-shirt in there, and they talk about the whole vampire thing, which I really wish they would just not do that. Because they do this shit all the time, and they did it in the 80s a ton,

and even in the 90s where they would lump in. They did it with Columbine. It's the same thing. It's basically the West Memphis Three, where they're like, they like Metallica, so obviously they're butchering kids in the woods. They did it with Columbine. It's the same thing. It's basically the West Memphis Three. They like Metallica, so obviously they're butchering kids in the woods. They had to. Leave that part out and let's stick

to evidence. Here's something. I loved Metallica and I tugged like crazy while I listened to stuff like that. While you listened to it, you're just banging your head, jerking it. Kill them all and I'm tugging. That's what I mean. But this is like. But I never murdered anybody.

That's the point. So I wish they would keep that shit out of the court because I really think that's just inflammatory shit to scare small town jurors. That's honestly all that is. And I don't like that. And there's enough evidence. Right. Physical and otherwise.

You can leave that shit out and it's fine. The jury on April 26th reached their decision after there was only four days of testimony. They needed three hours of deliberation on this one to find his ass guilty of murder in the first degree. Obviously the intent to kill. Mandatory life sentence in prison without parole. And he gets two of those and put them back to back, baby. Wowza. Line them up

have a have a good one caleb luck out living one best of luck just in case yeah that's the thing and when this happened too they said uh you know they they read it in court and they also there was also uh convictions for abuse of a corpse oh boy theft also because whatever he took off of her and obviously abusing a corpse here uh the showed, you know, he was completely stone-faced when they did the verdict, obviously, because a lot of, most of these guys are. Everything. Well, at that point, too, because they're still sentencing, that's after the sentencing that he did that?

This is for, this is finding the conviction. He knows what that carries. So he knows he's going for life. You can't really show any sort of reaction because then it either shows that you're... Plus, the attorneys prep you for so long before this, and you know they're like, okay, they're going to fine you, so this is what's going to happen. And they're thinking about afterwards, like, they're going to take you to this holding cell, and then I'm going to meet you over there.

That's what they're thinking about because they're already past this. He gets the conviction here. The jury gets a standing ovation from the courtroom. These people hate this fucking guy. As if they just killed at the club. You know what I mean? As if they just gave the best set of their life. Like a black headliner

just crushed. Like one of those people jumped out of their chairs, you know? I should say black because only a black headliner gets people to leap out of their seats with a standing ovation. I've never seen a white guy do that. Sorry. Chappelle just ended his set and dropped the mic and people were jumping.

Heads hitting the ceiling. Killing them softly, especially. Holy shit. I can't believe that just happened. So, yeah, standing ovation. People are shouting yes and all that. People were also shouting at him. Oh, boy. People were also shouting at him. Oh, boy.

People were yelling. One guy said, take it easy, fat boy. They're talking shit to him. It's all his high school kids come back to haunt him. It's him. It's also her family. Take it easy, fat boy. At this point, he wrote a letter to his friends saying he's reformed.

He found God. Now everything's fine. So one of the one of the uh people in the in the in the gallery there said quote you've got a lot of time to preach now asshole so they're like enjoy so philly this is such philly behavior it is it really is here it's like an eagles game just wrapped up and the eagles won yeah lisa's mother said quote it will never be over for us not having Lisa and Devon in our lives. They were our life, which, yeah, obviously that's that's horrible.

They're just shouting down the Redskins fans. You know, they are. You know, they are. They actually there's one guy here who says he he's actually happy that he didn't get the death penalty because he said that life is going to be so bad for him. He said, quote, it'll, quote, truly show him the justice that is due. And he said death row inmates are secluded. He said this fairly is going to be in general. Everybody else. And they said he's going to wish this deal never happened after that.

And he said, quote, it's hard to say what it's like for a man who's lost his wife and child. He has a strong family and they supported him all along. So that's about they're talking about James there. Two consecutive life terms, which is excellent. 1998. Later on in the year, Caleb Fairley's parents settled the lawsuit with James Mandarick for $1.6 million out of that. These people are assholes. By the way, they made this shithead kid by not paying attention to him.

I feel like I would I want to sue these son of a bitches. They said this is something that was said in court in this civil trial here by the Fairleys. Quote, while the circumstances were indeed horrific, the deaths were relatively and mercilessly swift, mitigating their conscious pain and suffering. That is the equivalent of I'm not racist, but. That was terrible. That's a horrible thing to say. Yeah, he killed her, but it's not like he tortured her. You strangled a woman and her baby and then raped the corpse.

Are you fucking kidding me? How much worse does it get? Jesus Christ, man. Good Christ. Wow. You know how long it takes to die from strangulation, you assholes? That's not an easy death. March 14th, 1998, James Farrelly, his father, the pharmacy guy, is charged with delivering drugs to an addict without a prescription.

He would apparently take money for the pills for about a year and then switch to wanting sex for the pills. Whoa. This all comes out among all these other infractions with the prescriptions and with the pharmacy. Wait, that guy raised a murderer? Weird, right? Strange. That guy, yeah, trying to- What a scumbag.

Oh, coerce crackheads into having sex with him for pills. Sex for pills. What a piece of shit. So he loses his license, which is good. September 12th, 1998, they have a Mandarac Memorial Playground they named for the victims. They spent two years since they died, over 2,000 residents from the town spent two years trying to raise money. They raised more than $250,000 to build this for them.

December of 2009, they were renovating this playground and having all sorts of issues and arguing with each other. The whole town's arguing about it, saying you haven't kept up the equipment and that wood's supposed to last 20 years and it only lasted 15. And it turned into a big, you know, small town municipal clusterfuck at this point. Yeah. Now, June 25, 2012, U.S. Supreme Court does something interesting in a 5-4 decision. They determine that mandatory life sentences without parole

for those who committed murders before the age of 18 were constituted cruel and unusual punishment and implied that judges need the discretion to weigh cases individually, which seems like... That seems logical. Whatever. That's fine. This idiot, Caleb, implied that judges need the discretion to weigh cases individually, which seems like whatever. That's fine.

This idiot, Caleb, in September of 2012, files an appeal based on this, which makes no sense. He argues that the fact that he was 21 at the time is irrelevant. It's irrelevant. He says that, quote, a person's biological process is typically incomplete until the person reaches his or her mid-20s. So he's trying to say, I was just a kid. I didn't even know what I was doing. You're three years past the fucking threshold, though, Jake.

Not only that, I've been a kid and it never caused me to strangle and then rape corpses. That's the other thing. So, you know, it happens. He says that, you know, he needs to be looked at as an individual case. Here's the quote here in the court documents that he filed. Quote, each set of findings evidenced that while the 17-year-old brain is fairly developed, it is not until age 21 that young people begin to experience gains in emotional maturity, impulse control, and decision making. Those gains continue to occur into early adulthood.

Further, studies have shown that this biological process is not typically complete until a person reaches his or her mid-20s. That's even borderline if he was trying to make that argument because it says 21, you start to get your shit together. You were 21. I don't care anyway. If you're older than goddamn 15, I don't give a shit. You know what you're doing.

Stop it. Stop it. You know the difference between right and wrong. If you can drive a fucking car, you know what you're doing. That's my thing. Right. Right. That's a good point. We trust you with a deadly weapon right with a

fucking that means you're stable thousand pound vehicle that means you're stable at that point fine so october 23rd uh the uh this whole thing here it is ruled that uh he has no merit whatsoever in this uh dismissed the appeal saying quote it is devoid of merit and that no purpose would be served by further proceedings. So, yeah, so he's going to reappeal again. Even his court-appointed lawyer with these appeals is sending letters saying these have no merit and I have nothing to argue legally. Yeah. Like writing letters to the judges. Here's our appeal.

It's bullshit. We know. You can throw this in the trash. Don't make me look stupid. This isn't me. Like, don't hold this against me later on here. I'm so sorry we gave you something to shred. Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

He's doing this based under the post-conviction relief acts. He's asking the judge to vacate his two life sentences and grant him a new trial. A new trial or, in the alternative, a new sentencing hearing. Like, hey, at least let me get out in a little while here. The judge says, I don't fucking think so. Get back get back to the basement asshole take a hike uh all of that is denied lisa and devon are buried at the saint patrick's roman catholic cemetery in norristown and uh caleb's life here let's see what he's up to he lives in uh in fayette which is a uh you know facility obviously it's an overcrowded maximum security prison built in 2003, houses 2,114 inmates, but only

has a bed capacity for 1826. Oh, shit. People are sleeping on the floor. Yeah, or they can sleep together and hopefully do horrible things to this asshole. Let's just say that. Sleep close. What a complete piece of garbage that is. He might, every week we say it he might be the

worst now yeah it's possible it's possible i don't know though because other people torture people while they were alive his life is pretty bad though his life sucks and he fucking deserves it after that you know what there's plenty of shit out there and if he would have just waited yeah 10 years five years he could have found all sorts of weirdos online they could have hung out together he would have found more larping shit to do he could have been all sorts of weirdos online. They could have hung out together. He would have found more LARPing shit to do. He could have been jerking off to the weirdest porn he can find from the oddest strangest Eastern European countries

and he would have been fine. Wow. What a mess. There are Facebook groups for people like that guy. That's what I mean. That's crazy. Yeah. It's ridiculous. If pedophiles can find each other that send kiddie porn back and forth across the world, this guy would have been fine. He would have found, he would have been, the dark web would have been this guy's home, which I don't know if that's good or bad, but either way, he might not have done this.

He would have been alive and so would Devin and fucking Lisa. That's exactly right. So if you enjoyed our telling of the story, I'm not going to say if you enjoyed the story, because I don't think it's possible to enjoy that. But if you enjoyed the telling of the story and respect the skills, you can get on iTunes and do us a big favor by giving us five stars on there. It doesn't matter what you say. Doesn't matter what you say at all. Just the five stars really, really help us on the business end. If you want to do more, like we said, Patreon.com slash Crimeinsports and listen to Crime and Sports Podcast as well. Do that.

If you want to make a one-time donation, you can do that over at PayPal using our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. We'll take it. If you want to get a hold of us at social media, you can do that at Murders Small on Twitter, facebook.com slash smalltownpod. You can also email crimeandsport.gmail.com. And we have some amazing people here. Jimmy's got a list of awesome people, Patreon contributors and PayPal people. And you guys are so cool. Jimmy, hit us with the list of the best people in the world.

You guys were amazing this week. Between Tanya Ashton, Carmen Ybarra, somebody named Relevant. I'll take it. I don't care. Yeah, sounds like a rapper. Martina Lualonga. She's take it. I don't care. Yeah. Sounds like a rapper. Yeah. Martina Lualonga. It's the best one. Yeah.

She's so sweet. She's always talking about us. She's always tagging us on Facebook. She's so awesome. Thank you, Martina. You're the best, really. Appreciate you. We appreciate you.

Whitney Alexander and Daniel Belusi, or Daniel. It's a guy, but it's spelled with an E on the end, so I'm not sure if it's Daniel or if his name is actually Danielle, and that's fine. He just might be French. Yeah. My father-in-law's name is Rene. So who fucking knows? There you go.

The French. Yeah. That's what it is. Salvador Carmona, Rachel War or Rochelle War. Lil Buckaroo. Dig that one. That one's cool. Barbara Pagani.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's an Italian one. I'm sure of it. Dana Grayson. Dana Grayson. Ashley Voduti. It's got to be Voduti. It's French.

It's got to be French. Another one. She's got a Renee in her family. I know it. You know it. Jennifer Diedrich, or Dedrick. Jonas Schmitz. Schmitz.

That's a great last name. I got the Schmitz. Gretchen Oswalt. Jenny Langist. Jay Ringgold, the American hero. He's on board. We know Jay. Appreciate you, buddy. Jordan Neverez. William Trend on board. Thanks, Jay. Appreciate you, buddy.

Jordan Nevarez, William Trendle III, William Trendle, a junior's junior. Laura Webb, Ethan Williams, and Megan Strapik. Yes, thank you. Thank you, Megan. She works over at BuzzFeed. She wrote an unbelievable article. Thank you so much. It was so funny because we had already recorded this rant of complaining about nobody ever

puts us on lists. Yeah, how nobody gives a fuck about us. And two days later, we come out on a BuzzFeed list and she helped us out. Before she even heard it, we hadn't even been released yet. Unbelievable. Thank you. And she also donated money to our cause. So thank God.

We love you guys so much. Thank you. Gabrielle Ribuccio. Chris Brown took a break from Beaten Women. Thank you, Chris. Appreciate you, buddy. Good job, Chris. Thanks, buddy.

Hey, we'll take it wherever we can get it. Chris Brown took a break from Beaten Women. Thank you, Chris. Appreciate you, buddy. Good job, Chris. Thanks, buddy. Hey, we'll take it wherever we can get it. Chris Brown. Linda Prass, who's our lawyer jogger extraordinaire. Wow, we love Linda. She also sent a gift card for Dairy Queen. In addition to helping us out with a million other things and donations and everything else. Thank you, Linda. She sends us Dairy Queen gift cards because we love the cheeseburgers.

Thank you so much, Linda. That's so thoughtful of you, really. Abby Jobert or Jubert or Ju-bear. Ju-bear so much, Linda. That's so thoughtful of you. Abby Jobert or Jubert or Ju-Bear. That would be great. Ju-Bear. That's like backward bear Jew. That's awesome. Yeah, that's the Ju-Bear. That's a hairy gay Jewish man.

We're from Inglourious Bastards. You got to beat the shit out of Nazis. I automatically went to Wow. Something homosexual. I don't know why that's the first place I go. Sorry, Abby. We just ruined your last name. Sorry.

Jess Landgren over in Australia. She said some more cash. You rock, Jess. You're the best. Thank you. Paul Kruk, Gisela Kwan, Ricky Dickey. I dig that. That's amazing.

Poor guy got fucking razzed. You know it. Unless he's a race car driver, his life is ruined. Kimberly Wilkerson, Gisela Kwan, I said that. Katie Heisel, Shannon Nicole Raines, Zach Myers and Rachel Myers sent in a nice donation. Thank you so much, guys. You guys are the best. Love you guys.

Christina Tatone, or Tatoni, Shane Sankey, Ron Beleza, Luis Santos, Brandon Lee, Sid Early, Early Rachel Howard and Karen Morgan thank you all so much guys thank you what a fucking week guys really you're amazing you keep this

that list of people you make this possible that's people that try so hard to keep this going for us they do as we keep trying so thank you guys for everything

I feel like you guys are just as invested in it as we are which makes us feel amazing that feels so fucking great thank you guys it makes it feel like the work is worth it the stress is is worth it, it's all worth it

because you guys are enjoying it so much. Thank you guys so much for all that. They want to get a hold of you specifically, Jimmy. What might they have to do to do that? You can call me an asshole at atwismansucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat. Find me, follow along, and it's so great to have you guys interact. I really, really enjoy it.

And I am at jimmy p is funny and you could find me there or spell my last name copy and paste uh do all that uh if i don't respond right away i'll get back i'm in a i'm in a hole with this shit and with fat goth kids raping corpses so it's i'm trying guys i'm trying through his mind somebody's reading his wedding vows to him yes exactly literally like i like, I got to get going in an hour or I'm not going to have enough time to finish for tomorrow. Like, thanks, nice to marry you and all, but I got to go research a horrible murder. Talk about a guy banging corpses. Take it easy.

But, yeah, you can find me there. But otherwise, until then, guys, thank you so much for joining us. And until next week, guys, it's been our pleasure. Bye. much for joining us and until next week guys it's been our pleasure bye hey prime members you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor.

I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine

and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.