Small Town Murder - #34 - Death Threats Lead To Murder in Marydel, Maryland

Episode Date: September 6, 2017

This week, we check out the quiet town of Marydel, Maryland, where almost 27 years of tension, and violence resulted in one final, deadly showdown, and 15 years of court battles. Along the way, we find out that not all Guatemalans speak spanish, how two petty families caused the Mason-Dixon line, and just how far you can you can push someone before they shoot you in the face!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week, we look at the tiny town of Mary Dell, Maryland, where 26 years of tension led to a final explosion of violence. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! You got that right, Jimmy. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. Welcome back. The yay is a bullseye right on target.

As always, we're excited. We're so excited. This is a crazy case this week. I promise no dead babies. This one has no dead babies, and nobody will be raped. So you guys can rest assured. I'm not going to tell you what happens, but you can rest assured that that's not going to happen. No dogs die either.

So everybody's sensitive. Everybody's trigger things that make them upset. None of it's happening. So that's a good thing. That's a good thing here. Thank you guys again for joining us. Thank you most of all for your everything this week. Your iTunes reviews, number one, were enormous. Welcome all the new listeners. We got a ton of new listeners this week. You guys with your iTunes reviews and your general love and your listening drove us all the way up to number 103 in the charts.

Of overall. Overall in the United States. Out of everyone. Which is pretty, pretty awesome. That was great. And we can't thank you guys enough for that because nobody else is really helping out except for you guys. And Dan Cummins of Time Suck did a nice ad for us as well, which was great.

He's a hell of a man. And you should listen to the Time Suck podcast because if you like this, you'll probably like that. And then if you like all of us, and you're in the L.A. area, come to the Hollywood Improv October 7th. James and I are going to be on a show with Dan Cummins. Yes, the three of us. It is the 8 o'clock show.

Come see us. Come see us. That's going to be awesome. Hollywood Improv. Definitely. Be there. Talk to us. We'll come say hello to you.

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They don't. Thank you guys so much for that. They really don't. They really don't. I don't think they could. We'll put it that way. Before we get started, got to do the disclaimer, of course, especially with new people on board. We have to.

You never know. You never know. Then they told some friends. This is a comedy podcast. It is. We're stand-up comedians. We are. As you might know from saying we're going to be at the Hollywood Improv on October 7th.

So we make jokes. There are jokes throughout this. We do our best, and we promise you never intend to make jokes at the expense of the victims or the victims' families. We go out of our way. We really try not to denigrate any of them. Our jokes come

from small towns, bumbling police forces, murderers who are just idiots, so we're going to make fun of them. That's right from small towns, bumbling police forces, murderers who are just idiots, so we're going to make fun of them. That's right. Happens every episode. Every single week, we're going to make fun of a murderer pretty much. So that's what we do here. Like we've said before, we've said it many, many times, we are assholes, but we're not

scumbags. No, sir. Not scumbags. We're nice guys just trying to make a show that is a little more lighthearted and a little less, you know, and her head came off her body cleanly. That's a little too much. And then he penetrated the dead body. Exactly.

So we're going to tell it in a little different way. But the facts are real. Everything is real. That sounds good. Well, then buckle up. If that does not sound good, if you think that comedy and true crime should never, ever cross paths, we shake hands. We say thank you very much, like a first date that's just not going to work out.

Thanks a lot. Have a good life and see you on the other side. But for everyone left, we're going to shut up and give you murder at this point in time. Yes. Shut up and give me murder. Oh, baby, it's time. It's time. Let's head down.

Let's head down the east coast of the United States here. Let's head to Mary Dell, Maryland. Okay. Maryland's a nice little state. You ever been to Maryland, Jimmy? No. It's nice. I've seen wedding crashers, though. I know they do Mary Dell, Maryland. Okay. Maryland's a nice little state. You ever been to Maryland, Jimmy? No. It's nice. I've seen Wedding Crashers, though.

I know they do crab cakes and some other shit. Crab cakes are amazing, and if you ever watched The Wire, you'd know a lot more about Maryland. You'd know about their politics, their newspapers, and their entire drug dealing scene. I can't wait till we do them when we're in Philly. Oh, man, I'm telling you. You're going to know. It's just always sunny references. I'm going to crush it with those references. You are. But Mary Dell, man, I'm telling you. You're going to know it's just always sunny references.

I'm going to crush it with those references. You are, that one. But Mary Dell, Maryland here. It's nowhere near, it's not near Baltimore. It is a small town. It's on the eastern border of the state. It's in the central, you know, as far as north and south go. It's central, but it's on the eastern border, so much so that it actually gets the name Mary Dell

because it's on the border of Maryland and Delaware. Wow. It's right there on the border. So that's how it's tiny, too. It's in Caroline County. So, God, I hope, you know, every time they have a parade, they play that goddamn Neil Diamond song like it's seventh inning of a Red Sox game.

I wonder if they have drunks down there that sing along, too, like in Boston. Just drunken. Oh, God. The worst song that's ever been made. It's bad. It's okay when you hear it three or four times, but when you hear it three or four times in a row, no. And add 40,000 drunken New Englanders screaming only, ba, ba, ba, as they're hammered in their

seats. One of the worst accidents that ever happened. It's fun. Yeah, that's a terrible song, so you know they get that. It's a very tiny town,.08 square miles. So this is like a couple of blocks. This is a very small town. Like we've covered a few of these before.

Santa Claus, Georgia was that type of town. It's that type of town. Zip code 21649. Area code 410, just in case you get any Mary Dell weirdos ringing you up. A little bit of history on the town. Not too, too much here because it's a crazy case we have to get into. So we're going to buzz through the town as much as we can. Merriedale was originally known as Halltown, which sounds boring as shit.

That's a terrible name for a town. It was Tom Hall. It was his town. Tom Hall. Halltown. It's just a very boring white guy with a very, very stern look on his face who never smiles. Loves crab cakes. Hall.

Come in. That's it. Yeah, loves crab cakes. Hates when Omar jacks his shit, though. That's a wire reference. Watch the wire. This county is actually where the Masons have to throw in the wire reference, especially if we're in Maryland. It's coming hot and heavy, baby.

You're lucky this isn't big city murder. It'd be all about Baltimore. I'd be telling. Remember, that was. All day. That was the street. Baltimore murders. That's right.

That was the street where Omar came in a Prop Joe shop with a shotgun out and told Method Man to shut the fuck up while they worked it out. I'm going to figure these references out. You better figure them out. One of these days. This county is so in the middle. This is on the border of the Mason. This is the Mason-Dixon line runs through this county.

Okay. And they're like the stone fort, as we'll get into, is there. They can, visitors, if you're interested, you can view the crown stone of the Mason-Dixon line. Oh, goodness. Yes. The Mason-Dixon line actually named after Charles Mason and Jeremiah Dixon. They were just hired to do a land survey. And next thing you know, there's a line that runs through the country that we talk about for 200 years with their name on it.

That's not a bad job. You know what I mean? It wasn't supposed to be a dividing line between North and South at first. That's not why it was there. Right. It was actually to solve a property dispute between two families. All right. So they made a line.

That makes sense. Like an 80s sitcom. Yeah. They put some tape down the middle of the room and they said, don't come on my side and I won't come on yours. But it was because some asshole wanted his dogs running in one area. Pretty much. And he's like, I don't want your dogs there.

It's my property. We're putting a line down. We're going to survey and we'll find out whose dogs can run fucking where. We're going to get two guys out here. We're going to do a survey. Mason, Dixon. We're going to put a stone down.

You get a friend, I'll get a friend. I got Dixon. Who's your friend? You know I got Mason, buddy. You know who I have locked and loaded. This was the Penn

and the Calvert families that were just, couldn't, just couldn't get along enough to not have to fucking move. I'm not moving. My family's been to... Fucking move. To the point where they had to... I'm not moving.

My family's been here for 300 years. To the point where they had to hire people to come out and survey land. That's a dispute right there. Like, normally a dispute, maybe they come in as an arbitrator. Okay, you do this. No, they actually had to come in and split this fucking thing in half. Split it in half. We can't both live here.

This is Maryland's Hatfields and McCoys. This is hilarious. It really is. Split it in half. We can't both live here. This is Maryland's Hatfields and McCoys. This is hilarious. It really is. So that's it. There's also a very large Hispanic population down there. Fascinating. Very large. The majority of the Latino population there are Guatemalans, actually. And they're Mayan Guatemalans.

It's very interesting. They don't speak Spanish. Actually, they speak Mam or Mam. It's a Mayan language that very few people speak. Like, 30,000 people in the world speak this language. And a lot of them live in this town. Well, not a lot of the 30,000. But it's very strange that that became a big thing here.

I guess they were discriminated against in their own country because they don't speak Spanish. So they came up here. And, yeah, that's what they did. They came to Maryvale. Maryvale. Marydale. And became permanent permanent met residents a lot of them american citizens that's fascinating yeah i guess there's a lot of agricultural work in that area too that's what drew them to the area and then they just settled you know so whatever may as well in 96 there was a giant roundup of guatemalan immigrants uh basically an entire trailer park yeah uh immigration

came in with trailer park and basically wiped the trailer park out. Just took like over 100 Guatemalans at a time, detained them. Basically threw the whole entire town out of whack. As we'll hear from the population, you're going to go, wow, they can't afford to spare those people. It's one of those things. They don't have a lot of people there. So, yeah, it screwed everything up. They could have at least given two of them jobs as surveyors.

Something, yeah. Something, yeah. They could have at least given two of them jobs as surveyors. Something, yeah. Something, yeah. This is the Lopez Rodriguez line that runs this way and this way. Do you see it? It's perfect.

I know that's not a Mayan Guatemalan name. Close enough. I'm not going to explore to find. Go fuck yourself. I'm not going to do it. I can do enough research. I can't do research on Guatemalan Mayan names to make a joke. It's the people that speak another language. It's good enough.

They're speaking something. Now, in July of 2017, this town had a little scandal here. The mayor for nine years, which her name was Deborah Rowe, she was sentenced to nine years in prison. Oh, shit. On July 12, 2017, for stealing more than $61,000 in town funds. Oh, shit. It's a tiny town. That's a big chunk of money.

I'm going to notice that. That's what I mean. This is not great. She pleaded guilty to a theft scheme, misconduct in office, and forgery. That's bad when you're in public office. They say that she admitted that she transferred money from the town's bank account to her own bank account and got a debit card in the town's name, which she used to pay her own bills and taxes on some land she had in North Carolina.

She wasn't even slick about it. She literally just said, I'm going to open up a debit card. Fuck it. Yeah, no, charge that. Put that on my card. Don't worry about it. They'll never look. Oh, I see the town of Marydale is buying something today.

Like, what are you doing? The town of Marydale just bought popcorn at Target. What the fuck? That's so weird. Also, if that's not enough, she also admits to? The town of Merriedale just bought popcorn at Target. What the fuck? That's so weird. Also, if that's not enough, she also admits to forging town commissioners' signatures on checks. She had to read a letter of apology to the town, which

sounds very old-timey. That's hilarious. Like, gather everyone up. The former mayor's going to read. Dear townsfolk. They bring her up there in shackles, like in front of the gallows, you know? One of those things. Friends, Merriedalers, lend me your ears. Meridillers, everyone. And she must pay restitution.

61 grand? Oh, boy. Yeah, good luck with that, being a small-town mayor who clearly needed money to embezzle. She couldn't pay her own bills. Maybe she sold that land in North Carolina. I don't know her personal finances. Population in this town, as you'll see why that would be a lot of money,

is there's only 136 people in this town. Holy shit. So $61,000 is like, what, probably 10 years of taxes they collected. She took almost a grand from each person. Pretty much. $500 a pop here. That's crazy. Come on, everybody, pony up.

And the population has stayed pretty much like that. In 1990, which is when we're going to be talking about today, population was 143. Fuck. So they lost seven people in that time, and they came and went. It's pretty much been the same since about 1960, with about 20 people. All right. So it's just this tiny town. Median age in this town is young.

Average is 37.4. Median age in this town is 29.2. Wow. So it's a younger crowd. Actually, the male and female populations are out of whack. And like we said, when you get a town with under 1,000 people, the stats get out of whack very easily. It's about 60-40 male-female, which is out of whack, obviously.

If you get the oldest person in the world in that town, like 114, it fucks everything up. Well, a lot of them, too, are Guatemalan immigrants that work the farms. You're going to get more men coming up than women, so that's also going to help you. And younger, because the older people can't fucking work at the farm. No, not at all. There's less married people. There's more single people. It's just a younger, you know, that sort of thing here.

There is 0.0% married but separated. Wow. Which, well, that's not a lot of people there. So if you're married, you stay together. I guess so. Way higher. Almost 45% have never been married, which is very high. Actually, it's normally about 32%.

So that's pretty high there. As far as race goes, it's 35% white, this town. 0.0% black. No black people here whatsoever. So Omar would stick out like a sore thumb in this town walking around with a shotgun. He was a big fat guy too, wasn't he? No, no, no. Omar was not.

Who was the big fat guy? Omar's dark skin with a big scar on his face. He's great. Michael K. Williams. He was a big fat guy too, wasn't he? No, no, no. Omar was not. Who was the big fat guy? Omar's dark skin with a big scar on his face. He's great. Michael K. Williams. Who's the big fat guy? Prop Joe. Okay. Prop Joe is the big fat guy.

I know who that guy is. Yeah, he's good too. He's good. He's the real guy? He's the big guy, yeah. Well, he's not the boss, actually. He's not the good guy? No, he's not the good guy.

There's no good guys. There's no good guys. They're all bad guys. The cops are bad. Everybody's bad. I'm plugging in. That's the point. There are no good guys on this show.

Everyone is terrible. The cops are worse than the... bad. That's the point. There are no good guys on this show. Everyone is terrible. The cops are worse than the... It's terrific. You'll like the damn show. We have pushed the wire so much. They owe us royalties at this point. They owe us so much money. Let's see. So no black people, 1.63% Asian.

That's literally probably a family with a restaurant. That's probably it. It is Hispanic making up the largest percentage, 63.4% Hispanic, which is about what the normal rate of white people are in America. So that's the town. It's a Hispanic town. Religion, only about 34% of the people of Marydale identify as religious, which is very low, as we know. About 50% is the norm as we've been down south. That's all the white people?

That's probably all the white people. We've been down south. That's all the white people. That's probably all the white people. Only about 8% Catholic, 6% other Christian, 0.0% Jewish, 0.0% Muslim, obviously. Not a lot of Guatemalan Jews, I don't think, out there. No, I can't imagine. Mayan Jews. Any Mayan Jews out there?

A lot of those guys? I don't see a lot of those here. Politics go. 37% of the people are Democrats. Politics go 37% of the people are Democrats, 61% are Republicans in this town, which is to flip-flop from where Maryland goes in their elections usually. The economy here, not doing too badly. The unemployment rate's actually a little lower than our national unemployment rate. Average household income here is $48,125, which is only about $5,000 less than the national

average, so it's not bad, I got to say. Jobs, a lot of blue collar. I mean, and a lot of sales, too. I don't know what they're selling, but it's over 53% sales, office and administrative. So I don't know exactly what's going on here. But the cost of living, as we say, $100,000 being par, that being regular, average, $91,000 is their cost of living, which sounds, you know, it's not average. Everything's a little bit, you know, health is a little bit higher.

But housing here is only 63 out of 100. So you're making average cash, but your housing is way less. So you have a lot of buying power here. Median home cost, $117,000. $185,000 is the national average. Not bad at all. It's pretty good, actually. If we've convinced you, you need to move to Marydale, Maryland.

You're big into Guatemalan Mayan history. Big fan. You're a big fan. You know how to speak ma'am or mom or ma'am or whatever it is. You're going to move here. We have for you the Marydale, Maryland real estate report. Let's get to it. All right.

Here we go. Average two-bedroom apartments, about $1,130, which is actually $100 higher than the average, which is strange. You're much better off buying here. Yeah. As we'll get into the prices, I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,000-square-foot, nice little starter home on Reedy Road for only $89,000. That's great. That's not a bad, that's pretty good here. I found a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,800-square-foot house on Cool Spring Road. That sounds nice, doesn't it? Sounds cool. $159,000.

All right. Not too shabby at all. Then I found one here on Main Street, a six-bedroom, two-bath, 2,700-square-foot. You got my attention. $159,900. Not bad right there. What a deal. That sounds old as shit on Main Street.

That is a steal. Yeah, it's on Main Street. It's a big old house like that. You could probably make a bed and breakfast out of it. No problem. You're going to have to share bathrooms, but we can work that out. Whatever. Airbnb the shit out of that, and you'll make money.

As long as you have someone coming in cleaning the shit, or it should be fine. You know what I mean? There's Mayans everywhere. They love that stuff, don't they? I don't know. I'm guessing. Once again, Andrew Jackson. I'm here with my partner, Andrew Jackson.

Nice to see you guys. Don't those people love cleaning toilets? I don't know. They like it, right? It's a step up from farming, isn't it? I always hear that my Guatemalans, and I'm like, those are the people who like to clean toilets, right? They love it. You don't even got to pay them.

They just love it. They knock on your door. You got any toilets for us to clean? And they come in and clean them. I don't know. They leave. It's perfect. They bring their own brush and everything.

I don't know what's going on. Italian Mayan accent. No, I'm describing the Mayans. He's not Mayan. He's going, yeah, that's what happens. I don't know. You're at your house. You're in the living room. Somebody knocks on the door. Say, what have you toilet or whatever they're asking.

They come in. They got their brushes. They clean it. They're like little toilet fairies and they're out of there. No problem. I'm an asshole. It never fails. Well, if it's true in real life, Jimmy, why shouldn't it be true on the damn show? The messed up part is in real life. The messed up part is here.

In real life, he's the nicest damn guy in the world. As you can tell on social media, Jimmy's a golden retriever. He's happy. You want you to pet him, he's going to run around. I'm going to ruin that. I'm the asshole in real life. I'm kind of a dick, actually. On the show, he comes across

as such a dick. It's great. I love it. You get in real life, he's the friendliest guy. Talk to you all night about everything. Talk to you about your kids. I'll ask. You will. He'll ask and you'll care, actually care.

I actually sincerely give a shit. That's the thing, too. It's actually genuine. It's disturbing to watch. I put these balls in my ass in this seat. And then it all turns to shit. Under things to do here, let's do things to do for Mary Dell. Under sightseeing on Facebook, on their page, there's one thing.

One thing to do. One thing, and it is the Immaculate Conception Church. That sounds terrible. That's it. That's all there is to see. Moving on. Nowhere to see. Under events, it says, if you click on events, it says, quote, we couldn't find anything

for upcoming events and places in Mary Dell, Maryland. Nothing happening. It events, it says if you click on events, it says, quote, we couldn't find anything for upcoming events in places in Marydale, Maryland. Nothing happening. It says, quote, we got nothing. We got shit here on Facebook. Sorry. They just say I have nothing going on. Mason Dixon Crownstone. That's the thing you can do. You can go see that. The description of this, it says

look closely just off the highway for the elaborately carved English limestone post. Wow. What the shit? Which bears coats of arms of Lord Baltimore and William Penn. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

Look closely. That sounds great. Because it's just a stone. You've got to look hard. It's like a foot and a half tall white stone on the side. That's what they have to do there. And they leave it on the side of the road? There it is.

Check it out. Everybody look. That's limestone. It's heavy. That's your valuable shit. You leave it on the side of the road. I hope it's anchored in like a hotel lamp at least. Everybody, look. That's limestone. It's heavy. That's your valuable shit. You leave it on the side of the road. I hope it's anchored in like a hotel lamp at least. At least something.

They got to treat it at least as good as a hotel lamp, I would hope. At least as well. You drill a hole in the side and fucking weld a chain to it. That's not a thing like a bicycle. Hang on to your valuable shit. Come on, guys. This is all you have. It's this and the church.

You're almost broke. Oh, shit. Yeah, the lady stole all your money. Crime rate in this town. Here we go. What we're interested in here. Crime rate in this town. Here we go. What we're interested in here. Crime rate in this town is actually high. Property crime, which is, you know, larceny, burglary, that sort of thing here.

Your iPod got taken. Yeah, that is. I'm still broken up about that. Somebody took mine. Go on. It's a shame, isn't it? I'm still mad. 2004, Jimmy's holding the grudge.

It's actually about a third higher here than the national average of property crime. Viol violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, assault, that sort of good stuff here. It's about the same, about a third higher than the national average. Pretty damn high, I would say, for a small town on the border of Maryland and Delaware. And in this small town, we had some interesting things happen in 1991. But never mind 1991. Let's take it back a little further. Let's take it back a little further. Let's meet Barbara Ann. Okay? Let's meet Barbara Ann. She's going to be

Barbara Ann Peterson. Meet Barbara Ann. She was born in 1941. So many people sang that Beach Boys song to her. She hates that fucking song. She hates that song. I think it came out in like 60. So she was like 19 when that came out. Just like, maybe it was 64 or something.

But she was in her early young years. Formative. She's like, oh God, I hate this. I will choke you. I love on the cover of, there's a Beach Boys album. And on the cover of the album, it says like, party with the Beach Boys. And they have these pictures of them, like all 60s. And the singer, Mike Love, is, because I've seen the Beach Boys biopic, because it's hilarious.

I love bad biopics. I collect them. They're hilarious. The singer, Mike Love, looks to be 46 years old on the car. He's balding. Come party with your dad's friend. It's the stupidest looking thing I've ever seen in my life. Party with the creepiest neighbor ever.

That's what it looks like. And he's just sitting there. He's not even smiling. It's like he's leering at the teen girls. It's creepy as shit. So anyway, she meets Barbara Ann Peterson, meets Lauren Peterson. Lauren is a man. Lauren here.

1966. 1966. There you go. So all right. At least she was 25. And at this point, too, she had a boyfriend, Lauren, because they met in 1964 before this damn song came out, and they get romantically involved.

Eventually, it's pretty much a whirlwind, but I think this is how it happened back in the 60s here. They met in 64, became romantically involved. Next year, September 10th of 65, they're married. So I feel like that's, you know. Yeah. They went to a drive-in, they consummated this relationship. And now they're married. Now they're married.

That's it. And she actually has consummated something before because she has a child from a prior relationship. Whoops-a-daisy. So if it's 1964 and you have a child from an out-of-wedlock child, too. She's not, like, divorced. Right. She just had a baby out-of-wedlock. So this is like, she's like Rizzo from Grease, basically.

Yeah. She's a scandalous girl. Today, she's hot as shit. That's what she is. Nobody would think. But but back then they would all look at her like she was oh my god she's an unwed mother good god yeah so for her she probably felt you know and a lot of this too why she would latch on to this guy we'll get into I'm just trying to figure out the psychology of it and I'm not a woman and it's not 1964 so it's obviously more difficult but I'm honestly trying to think of what society treated single mothers like back then, especially one who, you know, her husband didn't die. She wasn't a widow.

She was just had an out of wedlock baby. They really treated these poor women like shit. They really did. So I feel like for her, she was probably, cause back then they were just, when are you getting married? Like everyone wanted you to be married off by 22. Get the hell out of here. Now she's, you know, coming on 23 and she has a baby. There's people going, when are you getting married? Like, everyone wanted you to be married off by 22. Get the hell out of here. Now she's, you know, coming on 23 and she has a baby.

There's people going, when are you going to find a man? So I figure she would, I feel like she would just latch on to a person. Any semblance of love. Yes, exactly. So I feel like that's it. And I hope that was the reason and it wasn't more deep-seated. So she had a child named Anne-Marie. And like I said, she marries Lauren.

They eventually have three children together. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, Lauren, Charles, and Helen. So his name is Lauren, A-L-O-R-E-N. And they name the daughter Lauren like that, which is just goddamn confusing. What torture. Lauren was in the military. Okay, Lauren is a Navy SEAL.

Oh. Lauren is a Navy SEAL. Lauren's a bad dude. Yeah, he served in Vietnam in 67 and 68. You want to give me a girl's name? I'll show you how much of a not girl I am. Yeah, exactly. I'm going to go saw heads off legally.

I'll go do nasty shit over here. I'm going to pop out of the water and take heads off. And 67, 68 in Nam, he was too. So he was doing nasty shit. Horrible shit. There was bad stuff this guy did in Saw. He's a tough dude. Yeah, he's a tough dude.

And altogether, when they're married, he's in the military for 22 years of their marriage. So, I mean, that's the kind of marriage, just to set it up. Basically, from the minute they got together, he was abusive as shit to her. Of course. He's very abusive to her. And like I said, I think maybe she took this because she was like, it's somebody. Right.

He'll take care of my child. You know how hard life was with one kid and no guy? Now I've got four. Yeah, well, this is before the four, but this is when she had one going in. And I think she was just like, he'll take care of us. It's with one kid and no guy now that's what i mean that yeah well this is before the floor but this is when she had one going in and i think she was just like he'll take care of us it's fine you know what i mean like i like i said i don't think society was to touch the potatoes on its plate yeah everything will be fine it's okay here so yeah he's they were abusive right from the start uh she said that uh he was an alcoholic right from the start uh drunk most of the time yeah uh which maybe you'd need to do to get whatever you did over there out of your fucking head. Shake that shit out of your noggin.

She said she fell in love with him and thought that she could, quote, be a Florence Nightingale type and get him to change. She seems sweet. She seems like a very sweet woman, this woman. She really does. She seems like a sweet woman. She wants to get him to change. She wants to, like I said, she's like, I will make this work. I'll shave off whatever edges

of that square peg I need to fit in that round hole. I got my whittling stick out. Let's do this. I don't think she gives a shit. While they were dating, before they were even married, there's an incident in front of her sister, mind you. This is in front of her sister where he throws her down on the hood of a car and basically just beats

the shit out of her. She was holding her skirt down because you had to be demure back then with one hand and holding him off with the other while he was just beating her senseless on the hood of her car in outside. This is in a car in a driveway in front of her family. Fuck. That is ballsy. Yeah.

That right there. That's that's a bad sign. That's not good. He's not even doing this shit in private to where he feels like I should hide this. Right. I'm being a scumbag. Well, to show everybody how in charge he is. Yeah.

And like I said, again, 1964. That's society. Things were different. Shit was on TV. I don't think you were supposed to hit your wife in the street. Right. I don't think you were supposed to beat her in the street on the hood of a car. Trying to keep her ass in her skirt.

But if Ricky calls Lucy in here and says, I'm going to spank you, she gets on his lap and he spanks her and everybody thinks it's funny for some reason. Everybody giggles away. It's fucking weird as shit. Like we've said ralph cramden constantly threatening the to punch her to the moon interorbital violence he's threatening on his wife all the time it's fucking unbelievable it's wild here uh so that's your first incident which is terrible but they get married anyway yeah like he's she said she thinks she can fix him yeah she's gonna fix him um immediately he becomes very possessive, very jealous, which seems like that's his type, I would imagine. Seems like his game.

Yeah. When she was pregnant with their first child, he kicked her in the stomach. Oh, fuck. As she put it, quote, as hard as a football. Yeah. And she was afraid she was going to lose the baby. So this guy's sick immediately. Like he's not a good guy.

And like we said, we don't know what kind of mental damage this guy has from whatever he did over there thanks for your service though hero but that's yeah you're kind of shit but taking it out on the wrong enemy yeah how do we need to figure this out and like he might have had mental problems and ptsd and all that shit too so i diagnosed shit going on yeah because back then that was and especially if you were a seal too and all i didn't hear about ptsd until 2014 yeah it's just very recent yeah i mean they had it in vietnam they were starting to come up with it but not i don't think these special forces guys would allow themselves to say that no matter how fucked up they were the best of the best they have a different they have a different my mother's boyfriend when i was a child that lived with us

for a couple years was a navy seal yeah and like he was a little messed up from that sort of shit too like he had some problems and that sort of thing. And I feel like that's a I don't know. You can't see and do that and be unaffected. You don't want to. They don't want to tell anybody about it, which is interesting. Another time here after the football card is a football stomach kick incident. He told her that he, quote, wanted to mess her face up so nobody would look at her.

He tells her how horrible is this? This is some evil shit. After that, after he threatened her for the next, you know, for years after that, she would always make sure to cover her face when he beat her to try to protect her face because he beat her constantly. He would beat her. He would kick her. He'd pull her hair, smack her around.

She said he would, quote, play with her head using tactics he'd been taught in the military to pick on her. She said, quote, pick on her and her and their children. I don't exactly know what that means. Shut the AC off. I don't know. Yeah. Right.

To threaten you. I'll beat the shit out of you. Turn it back on. Yeah. I don't hide the little Debbie snack cakes. I don't know what exactly the. But I don't know. I assume little things will get into some details.

Some ears in her soup or something. Yeah. Just wanted to keep her off guard and keep her at a constant feeling uncomfortable. Constantly looking over her shoulder? She said that he would beat her or attack her for no reason at all. She said, quote, if the moon was full, if it rained and he was going to go someplace, if his job wasn't going good. Good God. Basically anything.

Just any time of day. Yeah. They're married a total of 26 and a half years. And during that time, she said he beat her an average of two to three times a week. Holy shit. That's insane. That's how much you're supposed to have sex. That's so much.

And he's. If it's great. Yeah. If it's working out well, that's how you want. Instead, that's how many times he's beating her. Fuck. A week, which is horrific. And I can't imagine what this poor woman goes through on a daily basis.

And we'll find out what it did to her here in a few minutes and what it did to her mental state. Sure. And let's do a few more things here to talk about that happened to her and just escalated this whole situation. In March of 1982, she went to court saying there was a court case about saying that she had been shoved out the front door and her arms had been twisted around. And he twisted around and shoved her out the front door like he was bouncing a drunk out of a bar. She said she was afraid for her safety. And she said that her husband would talk about all the people that he had assassinated in the Navy and said that he was going to kill her, too. Holy shit.

And you know this guy can do it. And he's serious. And he has. He can kill people. He's capable of anything, this guy. So on October 14th, 1983, Lauren was drunk, is what Barbara says. She says she was going. This is when it gets really creepy here.

She says she was afraid that he is going to sexually attack her daughter, Helen, like he did to Anne-Marie. What the fuck? Okay. He said that out loud? No, that's what she said. That was her fear. She said, Barbara says, that when Anne-Marie was a teenager, Lauren told Anne-Marie that it was okay for her to learn about sex from her stepfather.

No, it's not. And it upset Anne-Marie very much, obviously. Yeah, it's not okay. By the way, just a small-town murder side note, footnote, small-town murder, that's not okay. By the way, just a small town murder side note, footnote, small town murder. That is not okay at all to do that, to learn from sex about your step parent of any kind. Not cool. It upset Barbara, obviously, and she was frightened that the same thing was going to happen to Helen and screw her up too.

So the whole thing just, it really, really got crazy. Like their son, Lauren Jr. got in a fight with her and sided with the father. What the fuck? And threw Barbara out of her own house. This is the son doing this. She had to go to court to get admittance back to her own home after this. That's how – Our society.

It's insane. I don't know what is going on here. And they're moving around. I see what the boy is doing. The boy is just seeing that's how you treat a woman. Yeah, that's what he's learned since two to three times a week. He's watching his mom get beat up. He's like, well, that's what you do.

You beat him up and you throw him out of the house. He watches dad beat mom more than he does homework. That's crazy. Pretty much probably here. Now, as a result of this whole thing, there was a big, this went to court. There was a big domestic proceeding. They did a family court and all that. And Lauren admitted, he admitted himself voluntarily to a Veterans Administration drug and alcohol

treatment program in Philadelphia. He said, okay, fine. You know, the drinking is the problem. I have a problem and I need to stop drinking. So the program's in Philly. Program's in Philly. He comes back. He completed the program and actually stopped drinking for a while. She said- I know there's a really great bar there. Where, Philly? Program's in Philly. He comes back. He completed the program and actually stopped drinking for a while.

I know there's a really great bar there. Where, Philly? Yeah, Patty's Pub I think it is. Yeah, it's pretty good. It's a little dirty. It's a lot of hijinks that goes on in there. A lot of hijinks, but they let in underagers, so it's not bad. She said that, quote, for a little bit after that, Lauren, quote,

stayed nice, she said, but then his personality came back. So, yeah, she said he stopped drinking, but the ugliness was still there. So you think he was sneaking booze? Probably either sneaking booze. He was probably doing what my grandfather did, because my grandfather was an abusive asshole like this. Pouring the brandy in his milk or some shit?

No, he drank scotch like crazy. He owned a barber shop, and he drank scotch there. He did. He was a barber. I'm going out to the barber. Oh, he was a barber. He had a reason to go to the barber shop. Yeah, he owned the shop, and he drank scotch there. He did. He was a barber. I'm going out to the bar. Oh, he was a barber. He had a reason to go to the barber shop. Yeah, he owned the shop and he was there 14 hours a day and he'd just be drinking scotch

the whole time there. And he kept a plastic bottle, like jug shit scotch in the garage. So when my grandmother found it and threw it out, it wouldn't be the good stuff. Hilarious. So I feel like that's probably, when I heard that, I automatically thought my grandfather was sneaking scotch in the garage. Like that's what he's doing right now. And they have a farm as we'll get into, too.

So he has a lot of time to wander the property. There's plenty of places to hide shit. Exactly. They're moving all around, too, in this time period. They live in Ohio, New York, Virginia, Delaware, California. They move everywhere. Across the whole fucking country. All over the place they are.

And he's in the military until about 87, so that makes sense. He's probably being stationed in different places, different bases. I don't know if Ohio has bases, but I know all the other ones do. I'm sure it does. I'm sure there's bases there somewhere. Someone's going to tweet us, actually, in Toledo. We get it. Yeah, fine.

We don't care. They're fucking everywhere. Don't care how many fucking soldiers you have in Ohio. Sorry, guys. Nothing against you soldiers, but fuck Ohio. Not fuck Ohio, but fine. Still in Ohio. Sorry, guys. Nothing against you soldiers, but fuck Ohio. Not fuck Ohio, but fine. Still fuck Ohio. Barbara, when things got out

of hand, she would seek protection from the courts, but a lot of it was traveling from state to state. There's no consistent deal. Back then, there was no national database was different and that sort of thing. You were just a new case popping up in the court. It wasn't like, I've seen you how many times now? Yeah, this is ridiculous.

This is family court after different family court. Yeah. She says that she went to court, quote, too numerous to count, she said. She said, I got tired of going. I wasn't getting no results. Nothing was happening and things were getting worse. One time, a week after a judge, this is ridiculous, a judge in Virginia, because she kept, and one of the times when they were in Virginia, they had gone several times to the same judge,

and the judge told them that he, quote, don't want to see you back in his court for a year, is what she said about it. So less than a week later, Lauren knocked her, punched her off a bar stool and knocked her unconscious. So the next 51 weeks of beatings, it's on you. It's on the house, buddy. Yeah, exactly. Fuck.

Insane. Now, June 26th, 1987, there's a family court in Delaware. Real quick, he told the wrong fucking person that. How about you tell Lauren that? That's what I mean. Don't tell her. He told Ben that. Okay.

Like, get along, guys. Figure it out, you two. Hey, listen. How about you got to fucking force him to. I was going to say, one side is beating the shit out of the other side. So I bet the other side would probably like to work that out and not get the shit beat out of them. So probably not a big argument from one side. You know, that's like, good God.

That's like someone's raping somebody. You two work that out. Right. It's like, yeah, here it is. I'd like this person's dick to not be in me. They apparently would like it to be in me. We have, we're not going to work this out. Well, I'm on your yeah, here it is. I'd like this person's dick to not be in me. They apparently would like it to be in me. We have – we're not going to work this out. I'm on your side, judge.

Can we make him not fucking do this to me? He's got a conflict of interest here. He clearly likes to do what he's doing here. This is fucking ridiculous. What a ridiculous thing to say to somebody as a lawyer. A judge said that. A judge. That's amazing.

A man in a position, a woman in a position of authority over the state said this. Unreal. So this is now in Delaware in 87, June. There's a family court there, and Lauren is being accused of offensive touching of his wife. The court records have it's pulling hair. He tried to choke her. Quite offensive. It's basically everything but punching her.

That's why it's unlawful, some sort of offensive touching rather than actual assault, which I think choking and air pulling is assault in my book. I'm on board. That's pretty assaultive to me, assaultative or whatever it is. I don't even think either one of those are a word, but that's fine. It's close enough. Yeah. He was ordered. This is what the judge did in this case.

Ordered Lauren. This is how this came down. He ordered Lauren not to orally or physically abuse his wife. That's it. Hey, stop it. You knock it off. You, you cut it out, mister. You better, you.

What is that? What the fuck is that? Hey, don't beat her up. I think the law already stated that. That's been stated by society. That's written. Yeah, it's written. Don't beat her up. I think the law already stated that. That's been stated by society. That's written. Yeah, it's written. It's written.

Don't beat her up. Don't abuse her. That's fine. But now I'm going to tell you extra. How about he already did that. Now we have to figure out another solution. There's consequences for this. It's not, don't remind him not to do it.

Nope. I'm starting to, this is a guy at this point where I'm like, maybe Vietnam is a good place for him. I think he knows the rules and I think he just doesn't give a fuck. Doesn't give a shit. Is there a jungle we can drop him back off in? Is that possible? He's clearly good at that.

I mean, go. He's excellent at being a dick. I'm sure he's a great killer. By all means, we'd love you to. Just not her. Just not. Exactly. This guy should be in a fucking box somewhere, in a cage.

And then open him up and let him free whenever we've got a problem. Like I said, I'm not even sure that this is his fault. That's not the thing. This might not even be his fault. True. But at this point, it doesn't matter. He's terrorizing people. He's terrorizing a household.

He's terrorizing kids. He's terrorizing her. It's insane. So like I said, he retired from the military in 87. He retires from the military, and by 1989, they move to Maryland. Hey, guys. I just want to tell you real quick. Web support is brought to you by WebAndWriter.com. If you're looking to build a website, go over to WebAndWriter.com.

They build websites that look great on all screens, graphics, logos, engaging content. Go over to WebAndWriter.com or go over to Facebook.com slash WebAndWriter. They'll build you an unbelievable website at a very fair rate. They'll build you a very great website. Go see them. Webandwriter.com. This is when they settle in Maridel now in 89. They've been everywhere in the country.

Yes. And they settle in a place with 150 fucking people. Well, they wanted to live on a rural property. They had chickens, geese, rabbits. They had animals. But all these other cities are just too big and not everybody can see and beat his wife. He wants to go somewhere

where the venue's just a smidge smaller. Maybe he thinks... Makes it more intimate. Maybe he's like, in addition, two things Guatemala and Mayans love, cleaning toilets and beating women. Maybe that's what he said. So I'm going to go there. By the way, I do not know if that's a fact.

I'm not even asserting it's a fact. I think the former is true, though. I think that's what he's thinking. He's like, I hear they like toilets and women beating, so I'm going to go there. He goes there. There they are. By 1991, so this is two years into their living here, Barbara stopped sleeping in the same bed with him. That's not a good sign.

No. She says that he didn't respect her, which I don't know how it took her 25 years to figure that out. I would think the first beating would say, you know what? I don't feel like I'm respected right now. I don't know what it is. Something tells me there's a lack of respect around here. He's beating me in my driveway in front of my sister. Feels like I'm being disrespected.

My ass fell out while getting beaten. I don't think he respects me. Feels slightly disrespectful. She said she was scared, which I don't blame her for being scared. I'd be petrified of this asshole. She slept on the couch, she said all the time. By August of 1991, she

becomes convinced that he's having an affair yeah uh at other times during this she was convinced that he was uh gay she thought he was gay and was having a homosexual affair that was her big assertion she's like he is having a gay affair yeah evidence of this and this is this shit could only come from court documents this is why i love uh court documents because you could only get this evidence from this is why i love uh court documents because you could only get this evidence from this was that she found quote some hairs in his underwear and some fecal stains in the wrong place and from that and from that she assumed that he had and was having a homosexual affair and that he might have aids so she refused to sleep with him. He has beaten her crazy.

That's what happened. It gets worse with that. This poor woman. He has shit in the wrong spot. Yeah, he has shit. Well, I assume he has shit in the front rather than the back. I'm thinking maybe he had some. I'm thinking he was a drunk guy that put his underwear on backwards. I think I was just going to say he was shit-faced.

He was like, I better turn that stain around in case I get another one. And he just turned it around and didn't know what he was doing. That's what happened. But, yeah, she said. That's hilarious. And some hairs in his underwear? I mean. Some hairs?

For what? It's the 70s, right? Oh, God. Bush is galore. This is 1991, but still. They still got the Bush. Unless you were in porn, you got Bush. It's the guy that went to Vietnam.

He's not shaving shit. I'm not shaving my crotch. No. Get out of your fucking mind. The Viet Cong got smooth crotches, not me. He's just like, what? What the hell's wrong with this guy? The Viet Cong, how do you know about their crotches?

What is happening here? So that is why she says she refused to sleep with him in addition to her not respecting him. I mean, she's already got she's got enough with the he doesn't respect me. She doesn't need to be talking about where he sits in his underwear. Oh, by the way, found some poop in the wrong spot. So you're going to have to have to really focus on that. That's hysterical to me.

This is horrible. And I know, but Jesus, this kind of stuff here, you can't buy this. That's hysterical to me. This is horrible, and I know, but Jesus, this kind of stuff here. You can't buy this. He has beaten her nutty. That's what happened. That's the theory that I have. I feel so terrible for her. It gets so much worse for her, too, here.

August of 1991, same month, their son Charles witnessed his father, Lauren here, push her to the floor and start choking her with his hands around her neck and said that his mother was very fearful for her life. Obviously, she'd been pushed down in choke. Another time in September, the next month in front of Charles, Lauren screamed at Barbara, quote, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to take your head off. Oh, my gosh. So that's not what you want to hear. That's certainly not what you want to hear your father tell your mother.

No. I don't think at any point. Yeah, this is awful. 1991 in September, same month as the I'm going to kill you, I'm going to take your head off incident. Lauren was very angry a lot. He would intimidate her, try to give her intimidating looks to make her feel uncomfortable. He's just walking around the house bullying her. uncomfortable and he's just walking around the house like bullying her like it's almost like if you see a prison movie and somebody's like the guy in prison he's just walking around bullying

people that are like you know he's the big guy on the yard yeah and he's literally getting people like you know look to look away like that's what he's acting like like a prison bully it's insane he's uh he's she said quote if looks could kill i would have been dead now obviously some of that too might be in her head but i feel like it's probably true by things that keep happening. He said, like we said, he's threatened to take her head off, for Christ's sake. She, at this point, was so frightened of him, she said she

had diarrhea for 20 straight days. I wonder what her underwear were like if his had them in the front, and hers were probably everywhere. There's a lot of poop talk in this. More poop talk than ever in a small-town murder. And this is horrible. She's so frightened, she's shitting herself for 20 days. There's a lot of poop talk in this. More poop talk than ever in a small town murder. And this is horrible. She's so frightened she's shitting herself for 20 days.

That's scary, but it's... You have diarrhea for 20 days straight because of your fear of your husband? Fucking get out. Yeah, run far away. What are you doing sticking around? That's one of those things, though. She's got fucking... What is that Stockholm shit?

It's not even because she doesn't love the guy. She's in a new room. It's so. Yeah. Well, she's just it's it's the whole battered wife thing. I mean, she's she's. What am I going to do if I leave? That's the thing.

And especially since the six solid for once, for Pete's sake. Do something to shit solid. Someone give this woman some cheese and an apartment. She needs a one bedroom apartment with some cheddar in the fridge. So she this poor woman. God damn. This is terrible. Twenty straight days. She needs a one-bedroom apartment with some cheddar in the fridge, man. So she, this poor woman, God damn, this is terrible. 20 straight days. She has diarrhea. She lost so much weight that she said, quote, she had two bones for a rear end and her ribs were showing.

This poor girl. This poor woman. Good Lord, man. I mean, at this point, too, she is like, what, 49 years old? I mean, it's like maybe that's it, too. Maybe she's scared to start over. Yeah. They didn't have Tinder back then.

No. So it wasn't like she could just, I don't know. Maybe she's just scared to start over. She feels like her life is wasted. I don't know. Or she's scared for her life and she feels like maybe if she leaves, he's going to kill her then. So I don't know.

You know, who knows what's going through anybody of these minds. Awful. Anybody's mind in this situation. She said she was physically ill from his threats, and he responded that, wow, he responded that they were not threats, they were promises. Holy shit. And that, quote, she had, quote, she, quote, had better get her children to make her funeral arrangements.

Holy shit. That's what he tells her, and that was actually heard by one of the children also. My God. So, yeah, this is, wow, that's sick right there. And by the way, her children, they children also. My God. So yeah, this is wow. That's sick right there. And by the way, her children, they're also yours, sir. And you're fucking ruining them with these kind of words. Maybe he meant just Ann Marie. Either way. Get that kid.

Holy shit, man. Oh my God. Yeah. Now this month, all of this is escalating. In the same month in September, Barbara goes to Ann Marie's house and said that she needed a gun that she had purchased a few years earlier and she needed it right now to protect herself and that she was very frightened for her security.

She stayed with Anne-Marie a couple of days. She went to her other daughter, Helen's house. She said she had to go hide her car because she was when she went to her daughter's house because she was afraid that her husband might come and find her. Come find the car and find her. It's insane. She was apparently at first, she's carrying this gun around in a bag with her at all times. She's got it in a bag.

Then she felt that's not easy enough to get out. I need this thing to be accessible. So she would carry, she even carried a church with her. Good God. She went to church, she carried her gun with her. That's what, she wasn't fucking around. So she came up, this is how scared she is. She comes up with this God. She went to church. She carried her gun with her. She wasn't fucking around. So she came up. This is how scared she is.

She comes up with this idea. She makes a vest. She gets a vest and sews in a gun pocket on the inside of the vest and another one for bullets. Holy shit. She sews this into her vest so she could take the gun with her at all times. She wore the vest all time. While she was sleeping, she wore the vest.

And when she slept, it's like she slept in a bed. She sat in a chair in a living room with the vest all time. While she was sleeping, she wore the vest. And when she slept, like she slept in a bed, she sat in a chair in a living room with the vest on ready to shoot. So she looked awake. She's just constantly ready to defend herself. Here's the thing. If you're in this situation, because I'm sure there's a woman that's listening that is in fear of her life. God forbid.

I hope not. If you're in something like this, don't be a seamstress. Just call the police and fucking leave. Call the police and leave. I promise you somebody will help. Somebody will help. I hope not. If you're in something like this, don't be a seamstress. Just call the police. Yeah. Fucking leave. Call the police. I promise you somebody will help. Somebody will help.

I promise you. We're not the guys. I don't know what the phone numbers are. I don't know. I don't know what the phone numbers are to help you or anything like that. But I'll Google the shit out of something for you. We are. This is crazy.

This is crazy. Yeah. Don't take this shit from anybody. Nobody take this shit. Nobody live like this. You're worth more than this. This is fucking bananas. Sitting there, not even sleeping. She would go to take a shower or Nobody live like this. You're worth more than this. This is fucking bananas. Sitting there, not even sleeping.

She would go to take a shower or go to the bathroom. She'd wear the vest into the bathroom, lock the door, take the vest off, take the shower, put the vest back on again and walk out. Oh, my God. Like, not even, I got my robe on. I'm going to be comfortable. Never. Unbelievable, man.

So this was after he threatened to kill her. The whole, you know, you better have your kids make your funeral arrangements type thing so she stayed with helen she stayed with ann marie a little bit um you know that sort of thing she ends up going home uh going to her home because her children had to go back to work and she was alone in their houses and she was afraid that lauren would find her and hurt her okay so that's she's even scared to be alone. She says it's better. She said she thought it was, quote, better off in her house because then she would know when he was coming home. To her, it was safe even though she was getting beat up. That's what she said.

Anywhere else, it's like she's vulnerable and she's looking over her shoulder. At least at home, she knows he's there. She knows when he's going to be there. He's not going to sneak up on her. She's not going to be sleeping. She knows when his hours are. Now, the children also the children started seeing things in her mother, started seeing things in their mother a long time ago. They start seeing things.

They described her as someone who would flip out of control and lose control very easily and then later not remember what she had said or done. Jesus. They described her as being, quote, very strange person who would say and do strange things and report strange experiences. His PTSD gave her PTSD. That's what she did. She she he beat her crazy. That's exactly the right way to put it. She had experiences that she would report, such as visions of God, of Jesus, of seeing her aunt and grandmother seated at the foot of God. of seeing her aunt and grandmother seated at the foot of God, hearing God tell her that, you know, God would tell her things and she would respond,

you know, God, I'm here for you. Take me if you will. Sweet Pete. And another thing, too, who knows if he gave her brain damage hitting her that much. That's the other thing. We don't have any idea. She said that she'd seen ghosts and reported it to whoever would tell her that she sees ghosts. She would report experiences of ESP, extrasensory perception. She would feel she could predict things before it happened.

Oh, good lord. She knew an uncle was going to die before she was told that he was dead, things like that. Like, I had a vision last night. Which, I mean, everybody has, like, an aunt that does that anyway. Which, not combined with everything else. I mean, if you tell me somebody that's alive right now, I'm going to tell you they're going to die one day. Yeah.

She's going to die. It's going to happen. I had a vision. They told everybody that the children said that she was very obsessed with religion, very obsessed with all of her ideas. They described her as moody and mercurial. So she is just- She's out of it.

She is a basket case at this moment in time with a gun with a gun at all times on her scared shitless so this is like a you know this is a cornered animal yeah is what it is don't surprise her no no surprises no surprise parties nothing nothing janet stevens is a friend of hers and she says that in 1991 in october they had a telephone conversation where Barbara told her that Lauren was making death threats against her on a daily basis she said she was afraid to eat because

he didn't this is why she wasn't eating by the way with the diarrhea too she didn't know if he was tampering with her food she was so scared she was hiding food that she knew god damn it she was hiding food that in her the trunk of her car so he wouldn't have access to it and then going out to the trunk and eating things like a squirrel real

quick and running back inside. How do you live like that? You got to get non-perishables. You got to keep a can opener. That's what I mean. She got like a loaf of bread back there and a thing of peanut butter. This is ridiculous. What is she doing, man?

This is going way too far to survive. It's way too far to survive it's way too far so stevens here the friend uh the janet stevens october 20th 1991 she sees barbara in person and she was absolutely shocked by her appearance she said barbara had told her that lauren was going on a hunting trip and that and that barbara was his target and that he had quote messed with her mind to make her think that. That's what she says. She's just losing it. And she's telling her friends this.

I'm still stuck on the roach coach out of her trunk shit. Like, I can't. She's eating out of her trunk of her car. Unless she's got, like, Exhibit pimping her ride and making her, like, an unbelievable Wolfgang Puck kitchen in there. She's got, like, a 76 Torino with a jar of peanut butter. She's eating tuna fish. And some store-brand white bread in the back.

Jesus. That's what she's got. It's sad. This is sad shit. What a life, butter. She's eating tuna fish. Store brand white bread in the back. That's what she's got. It's sad. This is sad shit. What a life, man. Some jerky back there. October 91 scares her even more because he is going nuts yelling at the television all month because it is the confirmation hearing for Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

And I don't know if anybody's too young for that or whatever. He was accused of sexual harassment the whole time by Anita Hill. Lawrence Thomas. And I don't know if anybody's too young for that or whatever, if you don't pay attention. He was accused of sexual harassment the whole time by Anita Hill. There's the pube on the Coke can, that whole thing, whatever. Have you ever heard of pube on a Coke can reference? This is what it's from. This is it. Yeah.

And he was so mad at Anita Hill, he was screaming at the TV the whole time because he didn't think a woman should be allowed to make accusations against a man, is what he said. He said he would sit there and he would spell it out. He would say whenever she'd come on TV, Anita Hill, Lauren would scream out, B-I-T-C-H. He'd spell out bitch. He would brag to everybody that he would kill her for $100. What? And she said over the course of the hearing, he became madder and madder. And he, wow. She would say more things that happened in Anita Hill.

So Lauren would get madder and madder and start saying, I'll kill her for less and less money over the course. By the end of the hearing, he said he'd do it for free. I'll do it for a nickel. Fuck it. I'll do it for free. I'll do it for one of the peanut butter sandwiches from your trunk. I don't care. Just to shut that B-I-T-C-H.

Who spells that, by the way? Yeah, that's an old church person thing to do, though. B-I-T-C-H. That means you didn't say bitch, apparently. In the eyes of the Lord, you're fine, I guess. I don't understand that. It's like anal. Yeah, just say it, God damn it.

So, yeah, she took this as, you know, this is his way of telling her that don't be making accusations against me right uh she's so scared that in october a guy named thomas phelps comes over the house not a friend not anything he is a cnp telephone company employee that is coming to install an extra telephone line uh he's never met any of these people before she spoke to him for 40 minutes straight rambling and crying uh saying that her husband was threatening to kill her all the time. He said, quote, he was always, this is the phone guy,

he was always telling her, I'm going to get you, I can kill you anytime I want, nobody will know, I know a thousand ways to do it. She told him that she hadn't had a night's sleep in 18 or 19 days. All she slept is like an hour at a time, here and there. She showed this phone guy the hand-sewn pocket in her vest with a gun and said she was scared. Look at how nutty I am.

Look at this. Look. Look at what he's done to me. Hasn't everything spun out of control? Yeah. He said that, quote, she said she hoped she didn't have to use it, but if he came at her, she would use it. And he's like, I'm just here to fix your phone.

Imagine this poor guy. I can't imagine. He's the fucking phone guy. Sounds terrible. He's like, extra line. That's a it. And he's like, I'm just here to fix your phone. Imagine this poor guy. I can't imagine. He's the fucking phone guy. Sounds terrible. He's like, extra line. That's a snap. I'll get out of there. And then he's got this lady screaming and crying.

I mean, it's a horrible thing. She's showing him weapons sewn into her clothing. He's the phone guy. Yeah, going, I'll shoot him if I have to. And he's like, I'm just trying to give you a call waiting. So you want it in the second bedroom, right? I don't know what you want. Like, I'm the phone guy.

What the fuck? call waiting you want it in the second bedroom right i don't know what you want like i'm the phone guy i don't know shit uh phelps here the phone guy returned back to the office and told his and he like got everyone else to tell everybody no they didn't they didn't say anything about it they didn't he's just bragging he was just like you gotta see this crazy listen to this story you're beating him or anything and it's i think to 1991 is a little different than now uh but she said he said to everybody quote you can remember this name because you'll read about this. Something's going to happen here. It was just a time bomb. Oh, he just didn't know any better to call the fucking cops? No.

Well, what are you going to say? She's carrying a gun around her house. There's nothing wrong with that. Officer, keep an eye on that house because there's going to be gunfire. Yeah, well, that's true. But back then, I just, eh, it's weird. Now, November 11th, 1991, she will not sleep in bed with him. Like we said, she thinks he has AIDS from gay affairs because of his underwear poop.

Because of his shit dick. Yeah, because he's got some shit dick smears happening. So he, Lauren, threatens to rape Barbara because she won't sleep with him. I promise. I promised you no rape in this episode. He does not rape her. There's no rape. So that's, you know, at this point, he's just starting to get more abusive like that.

He threatened to rape her. She said, Barbara says that Lauren begins being abusive to some of their animals and said he wanted to start getting rid of animals. He started kicking cats and said he was, she said before he was always nice to the animals and fed them and took care of them. And now he's being, you know, kicking animals and saying he wants to get rid of them. That's the start. Yeah, he's snapping.

That's why I think also drinking, drinking. Now, November 16th, 1991, Lauren said he was going to go out and kill some deer. And that was what she took as that he was going to kill her. Yeah. He said that he would say things to her like, quote, it was his turn to put her out of her out of her 26 year misery. Shit like that at that point. She would go out to feed the animals and be afraid to stay in one place. She'd be moving around like in case he was targeting her. She thought if he was a moving target. I feel so bad for her. Yeah. She said otherwise he would just call it a hunting accident.

He said I was shooting at some deer and I didn't know my wife was there. Stray bullet. Stray bullet got her. So November 17th, 1991, he heads to church about eight o'clock in the morning. He went to church. He came home early. She said she thought, thank God, that's great. I'm glad. Maybe he's going to be good when he comes home. She said she thought maybe he's going to confession. I'm a Catholic and I made him turn Catholic and maybe he's going to confession and there'll be no more problems. She said she asked him why he was going so early. He said he just wanted to go to church. And she said, you know, she thought that was great. He's probably going to confession. This is going to be terrific. He's going to be better when he comes home. You know, everything's going to be fine. She comes he comes home, changes his clothes,

goes out to feed the animals. Uh, Barbara is in the kitchen. Uh, she asked him, he lights a fire outside. Yeah. She asked him to not start fires near the animal cages because the smoke could hurt the baby animals. Right. Uh, she saw like, cause there was a big fire. He started, this is through the kitchen window. She says this to him.

He, so she says, Hey, put it out. He said that the smoke wasn't going to get in the cages. And, uh, she, she said that when she heard him, she said, you know, it seemed like he moved the air because it blew the other way. Like, that's how she thinks. Like, the smoke blew the other way because he made it. Like, that's in her mindset. She said it was crazy.

Like, he had control over the wind. So I shut the window and shut up. I figured it's okay. It's not going in the cages now no more. That's her quote. He came in the house. He takes a shower after feeding the animals uh lauren sits down in his recliner to watch a football game on tv yeah uh this is 91

baltimore had already moved to indianapolis they had no team in maryland i don't know what fucking game he's probably a colts fan still maybe or he probably hated they hate the guys everywhere too so who knows he probably has 20 teams So he sits down to watch a game. It is 1 o'clock in the afternoon on a Sunday. She told him, she said she needed to get out of the house. She told him, quote, I'm going to Anne-Marie's house. I have to get out because I woke up feeling crazy. Yeah. Go ahead.

Please, just run. Enjoy your day. She said she thought she had to get out of the house. She looked at him. She said she hadn't slept in bed with him for a year and a half because if she – this is crazy. He said to her, said to Barbara that if he had a terminal illness, he's got a terminal illness and that she's going to kill him. He's going to kill her. She's going to kill her.

He's going to kill everybody, whoever's on the hit list. She actually said she didn't care if he was having an affair with somebody else because then I don't know. She said, quote, I don't have to worry about him bothering me. But not, I guess, an AIDS-y homosexual relationship in her mind. I don't know. Back then, I think, too, in 91, some church person that doesn't know shit would probably just be like, if men kiss another man, they get AIDS. Even if neither of them had AIDS, they make AIDS. I'm not going to shake his hand.

They make AIDS by kissing. That's what happens. They can make AIDS like that. It's that male embrace. My God. So she says, you know, she's thinking, am I on the hit list? And she asked him, am I on the hit list? And he said, you'll find out when the time comes.

Oh, my God. So she said, I'm going to go visit my daughter. And her daughter lives in Delaware. It's about an hour and a half. And she said, well, I better go to the bathroom before I leave. You know, she's got to take a leak quick. Yeah, she's got to get that squirt out. Yeah.

She says when she went into the bathroom, this is when it gets weird. This is when it gets weird, by the way. She's sitting on the toilet, and she said it was a jar, like a water jar, like people in India maybe. And then she says a large jar sitting on her head, and she saw all the terrible things that her husband had done to her go into the jar. That's what she said. She sees this on her head. She said so she came out of the bathroom and shot her husband had done to her go into the jar. That's what she said. She sees this on her head. She said, so she came out of the bathroom and shot her husband.

Holy shit. Wait, what? Came out and shot Lauren. The jar, something about the jar. She said that, quote, I've seen all things around him, and then I didn't see him no more. Whoa. So she said she saw all this shit all in her head like a jar, and then she shot him, and once she shot him, it all went away.

The jar is gone. The jar is gone. Everything's clear. Wow. She said she doesn't know how many times she shot him. She says she knows she fired the gun many times. There was at least one misfire. She knows she reloaded.

Wow. She fucking reloaded, went and got some more bullets, kept shooting. So, yeah, and I never could find out exactly how many times he was shot because we'll find out in the court documents it doesn't matter how many times because there's no forensic testimony because it doesn't matter. She's saying, I did it. Well, yeah, we'll find out about that in a second. But, yeah, she said she did that.

She got her pocketbook and drove to her daughter's house, drove to Anne-Marie's house. Bye, Lauren. Peace out, Lauren. She says she doesn't... Bye, Lauren! Peace out, Lauren. She says, you know, enjoy the rest of the game. She says she didn't... Pick up that jar that's all over the bathroom, would you? And you were mad because the Eagles were losing. Well, guess what? Things just got worse,

asshole. So she says she doesn't remember how she got to Ann Marie's house. She gets to Ann Marie's house, calls the police. A state trooper, Maryland state trooperoper John Bollinger, shows up and speaks to Barbara about this. And he told her, she tells the trooper she fired the gun at her husband not sure how many times. She says she's had this gun in her vest since September 14th to the day of the shooting, every goddamn day. She told Bollinger that she just went to the bathroom

just off the living room, took the gun in her hand. She said she doesn't know what happened to her in the bathroom, but she came out with the gun, pointed it at him, at Lauren, and repeated, screamed at him over and over, you're not going to kill me, you're not going to kill me, and just shot him as many times as she could. My goodness. She snapped.

Yeah. She couldn't take it anymore. That's it. You broke him. You broke her. That's it. You broke a. You broke her. Yeah. That's it. You broke a person, and then this is what happens to you.

There was some fucking consequences. Yeah. The judge didn't give you any. She did. No, that's the thing. She put the ultimatum on it. Yeah. If he did, the judge wouldn't.

She did. She's arrested. She's charged with first-degree murder and a bunch of other related offenses to the weapon possession. Because that's what happened. She's assigned a public defender. They have pretrial meetings. The public defender brings up the battered spouse syndrome, obviously,

saying that, quote, she'd be the first one in the state of Maryland to use the defense because it was pretty new back then. The actual stated battered spouse syndrome. Beaten for 26 years. Absolutely. She said she wanted to testify. She tells her lawyer in the beginning she wants to tell the truth to the jury, which if I'm her, too, I want to tell him every goddamn thing that's ever happened. I can't wait.

Lawyer said that, you know, he talked to her and everything like that. And to heard about the barstool getting knocked off the barstool unconscious in Virginia. He thought maybe we really have something with this battered spouse thing. But then the lawyer realized that this all happened like 10 years before. And he was wondering, is there anything more recent? And there really wasn't a lot more recent when it came to everything. Basically, everything in the battered spouse syndrome thing, it had to be a recent beating. It couldn't be from years ago, even if it was this constant abuse.

So it was a new defense at the time. So he said, OK, we're not going to do that. We're going to go do something a little different. We're going to do an insanity defense, a not criminally responsible defense. NCR is what they're talking about here. That's what that's called, not criminally responsible defense. NCR is what they're talking about here. That's what that's called. Not criminally responsible. That's the primary defense with an imperfect self-defense as a backup to all of this to try to get the charges reduced to manslaughter. So they go into this trial.

Trial starts November 13th, 1992. She does not, Barbara does not contest the crime. She does not contest she shot him. She says she shot him. I did it. Classified as minimal as possible. That's what I want. She's fine with that, but she does the NCR defense, the not criminally responsible defense.

She's doing that. She has a psychiatrist evaluate the shit out of her, obviously. Dr. Kleinman and Dr. Carol Kleinman. She concluded that she had, quote, had some psychiatric problems that had been exacerbated by this very abusive relationship and had colored the way she experienced interactions with her husband. She formed an opinion that everything he did, everything Lauren did, quote, affected her thinking at the time she shot her husband.

She says that this syndrome, the battered spouse syndrome, interfered with Barbara's ability to deliberate and premeditate, and she felt that was important information that the jury needed to hear, that she wasn't in her right mind when this was going on. She had longstanding psychological problems. She also said that she was prepared to testify that she was experiencing the legally defined, I guess at this point, battered spouse syndrome when she was called to testify. But when she's called to testify, the lawyer doesn't ask any questions about battered spouse syndrome.

Nothing. He decides not to take it down that road at all. The doctor said at the time of the shooting, Barbara was suffering from bipolar mixed disorder with psychotic features and dissociative disorder not otherwise specified. But demonizing her. Well, no, that's a psychological opinion. Right, but I'm saying the lawyer not taking it down that path is demonizing her. He's ruining her whole fucking case. He's ruining her whole case, and also she does not testify.

She doesn't get to testify either. She wanted to tell her story, and she wanted to say, this guy beat the shit out of me and he said that's not your best defense i'm your lawyer and this was at a time when this wasn't a this is terrible and she's got a psychiatrist saying that she's got dissociative disorder which that's kind of one of the things like if you don't know what you're doing or where you are that means you're mentally ill that's kind of part of it uh she the the psychiatrist talks about how the children saw this the children children revealed all this, all these things about her. Um, she said that, that the mental disorder sees control of Barbara and she wasn't able to conform her conduct to the requirements of the law based on that.

Also, there was a Dr. Shapiro that said, quote, she had this essentially a hallucinatory experience of seeing things floating around his head. This again would be consistent with dissociation. Yeah. So that's what he's saying, too. It's a dissociative experience. She was watching herself do something like in a movie. Right.

That sort of thing. Like I said, she does not get to testify, which is crazy. You want this woman on the stand crying. You want this woman on the stand saying everything that had been done to her over the years and what that could have done and what that would have made anybody do or feel like. At the close of the evidence phase of the trial, her counsel seeks an instruction to the jury of an imperfect self-defense, which is that would permit the jury to convict her of voluntary manslaughter instead of murder. The court declines to give the instruction on the ground that it wasn't generated by the evidence because that was only their backup plan.

They didn't really. So, yeah. She got fucked every way she can. Every which way. The jurors deliberated. They reject the NCR defense. They find that Barbara was suffering from a mental disorder at the time of the shooting. But they did not find that the disorder rendered her unable to conform her conduct to the requirements of the law, which making her not criminally insane, which is what they were going for.

So they find her guilty of first degree murder, first degree murder, second degree murder, which I don't know how you can be both with one person, battery and the use of a handgun in the commission of a felony. Fuck. of a handgun and the commission of a felony. Fuck. After that, the court sentences her to life imprisonment for the first-degree murder and a consecutive 20-year term for the handgun. She got fucked. So she got life plus 20 years, and that's consecutive, too, not at the same time. Right.

There's a direct appeal, obviously, here. On direct appeal, she just does a straight appeal on it and the court uh uh denies her imperfect self-defense instruction rejected her argument and confirmed all her convictions but now that you have that now you can do post post-conviction appeal post-conviction relief which is different uh now she does that on 2003 Exactly. She's been in jail for 12 years. She files for this. She alleges now ineffective assistance of trial counsel,

which I goddamn agree with. She said that her trial counsel had performed shittily, basically, by not introducing factual and expert evidence to show that she's suffering from battered spouse syndrome, which is going to be more now because that's a bigger deal in 2003.

People know about it now. The state files an opposition to this, obviously. They have a hearing on July 15th, 2003. Dr. Kleinman is called again, her psychiatrist as a witness or the court psychiatrist. The trial counsel testifies as a witness for the state. Her trial counsel is Barbara's, for the state because they're saying he was ineffective. So he's like, no, I was effective.

In this, in the post-conviction, we have testimony from Barbara here, actually. She says that, quote, I woke up real depressed and I felt real weird that day. And I knew I had to get out of the house and I just had to get out of the house. I felt so strange. I just had to go. I just had to go, she said. They I just had to get out of the house. I felt so strange. I just had to go. Of course, I just had to go. She said they asked her about coming out and shooting her husband. And she said, quote, I seen all things around him and then I didn't see him no more.

Like, OK, they asked her if she felt like she was in danger of grievous bodily harm at the moment. She said, quote, I didn't know. I didn't know I had the gun in my hand, let alone shoot him. There was none of that, I didn't know I had the gun in my hand, let alone shoot him. There was none of that. I did not know I had the gun in my hand. All I did was see him, and he disappeared, and I heard my voice. I didn't know it was me. It was coming out. You're not going to kill me. You're not going to kill me, over and over. And then he disappeared, and that's when I heard a gunshot, and then I seen him again, and then he disappeared again. And 10 feet away on my right side, I heard more than one gunshot.

So it was like I was watching a television in slow motion, like it wasn't me doing it. And I didn't even know I had a gun in my hand or nothing. Wow. That's her thing. So she sounds crazy is what they're going for here. And fair, too. It's also fair.

Crazy, like we said, too. We're not blaming her for being crazy, but, you know, crazy is crazy. Crazy and it's induced by fucking your environment and how you're treated. Absolutely. She also talks about all of the pretrial meetings with her attorney saying that she wanted to do this defense. She wanted to testify. She wanted to do all this shit. She gave her none of it.

She gave her none of it. So there's a judgment here. Judgment for this, for the post-conviction thing here, post-conviction relief. They find that there was an effective assistance of counsel. There is an effective. Oh, ineffective. There was ineffective assistance of counsel. They find her lawyer was shitty.

The court concluded that the trial counsel's performance had been deficient because he had not informed Barbara of her right to testify and had not called her to testify despite her wishes to the contrary. It explained that even if it accepted the trial counsel's testimony that he informed her of his strategic opinion not to have her testify and she didn't respond to anything, that that conversation Right. opinion is issued. It's an order granting the petition and ordering a new trial. All right. The state applied for leave to appeal the decision, which was granted September 8th, 2008. This goes to 17 fucking years. Judge affirms a ruling for a new trial and the state is weighing whether it's even going to appeal that or if it's just going to let this happen or if they're just going to say, okay, fuck it. Now, here's where it gets weird. I looked for, I don't know, eight hours. I searched

every database. I searched every inmate database. I searched everything. I searched court documents. I could not find a record of a retrial. I could not find a record of it. Really? I don't know if they'd let her out, but her case is closed, so she's not in jail. She's not in prison. Her case is currently closed. She's not an inmate in the state of Maryland at all. So I don't know what happened. So they just were like, fuck it, we're not going to retry it.

Let her go? And there was no news coverage of that, I guess. I don't know. But I looked. I'm talking as deep as I've ever looked into anything on 115 episodes of both of our guess. I don't know. But I looked. I'm talking as deep as I've ever looked into anything on 115 episodes of both of our podcasts. I tried to find where this goddamn lady went. She's not in prison. I don't know if she died.

And that's the other thing, too. I looked for her dead everywhere. I couldn't find her dead. I found a million Barbara Ann Petersons that are fucking dead. Believe me, there's tons of them, but none of them with her date of birth. This was a hunting trip, man. I really went out. Oh, God. I just said that like to hurt her husband. I was hunting her, too.

And she was the target. But I'm looking for her, and that's literally it. I could not find a goddamn fucking thing about where all I know is her case is closed. All right. That's it. It's closed, and she's not currently an inmate. That's great. Barbara's out somewhere.

Yeah. Hopefully, she's living a quiet life somewhere. She's getting some counseling. I hope she's living a quiet life somewhere. She's, I hope she's overweight. I hope she's fucking full. She's got a fat stomach. I hope she's just relaxing. Just fucking so happy. This poor woman.

Drinking, drinking something that's alcoholic to forget about this shit. Yeah, she needs this shit. And yeah. I hope she's so full and so fed. This poor woman here. Poor lady. Yeah. I hope she doesn't have diarrhea.

Yeah. This poor lady. That's what I'm saying. I hope she's full and just solid. This poor woman here. Yeah, I hope she doesn't have diarrhea. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I hope she's full and just solid shits every day. Big solid logs. Let's hope so. Now this I have to say this is one of those cases where like there's

never going to be a good case. No, we're never going to do a case and you're just going to be like, yay. And that was great. You're never going to. It's never going to happen. There's something bad happening. So this case, I've said, okay, we've had women die, innocent children die, kids getting their legs broken, people being taken out of windows, all this crazy shit. And so I'm like, okay, let's find an asshole who deserves it and fucking kill him off here for this episode.

So I try to find that and I even feel bad for this lady for that. So whatever it is, but that was hopefully a little less of a disturbing episode for you guys. And also, too, I grew up in a house that was abusive as shit every single day, and I can relate, man. I can relate to that feeling of wanting to just fucking end it and kill the person. God, 26 and a half years of that. And thankfully, it went the other way and went through the court system. That person's in prison for 30 years. Just if you're in that position, I promise you, murdering them is not the answer.

No, that's not going to help any, probably. But get the fuck out and find the correct. Yeah. Right. It's immediate relief, but it's not the kind you need. Find the correct path and go down it and get out of that situation because it's not good for anybody involved. You can do it. Honestly, you can do it. I know you can.

If you've survived it for this long, you can do that next step. You really can. And then go get on the fucking public speaking market and go make a shitload of money because you will. Absolutely. When you're done doing that, what you want to do is head over to iTunes. You can. Head over to iTunes where you can go ahead and give us five stars.

We'll take it. Go ahead and do that. Just tell us. It doesn't matter what you tell us on there. The five stars would help us on the business end and drive us up the charts like you wouldn't believe like we did this week because of all of you amazing people. You guys are incredible. If it's not enough for you to do, if you're like, damn it, I'm too entertained in an iTunes

review. You made too much money on public speaking market, head on over to patreon.com slash crimeinsports. Crimeinsports, and you can drop a donation there, and if you want to do a one-time donation, you can do that just as easily over at PayPal using our email, crimeinsports

at gmail.com. That's long. If you want to get a hold of us on social media, and we're going to have a whole big list of shout-outs here. Holy shit. If you want to get a hold of us on social media, you can going to have a whole big list of shout outs here if you want to get a hold of us on social media you can do that on twitter at murder small facebook.com slash small town pod and also crime and sports at gmail.com you can email us there and here are a list of some amazing people that have donated to us helped us out and just generally been not shitheads this week incredible here they, our list of wonderful small town murderers. Bring them up.

Oh, maybe that's what we call the people. Small town murderers. Small town murderers. We couldn't come up with it. We were trying to come up with a name, and goddamn dumb people town took townies,

which is bullshit because that should be ours. They're friends of mine, and they took the best fucking name we could have given you guys. So we're just going to call you small town murderers

from now on. So enjoy murderers. Let's do it. Real quickly, too. This is our first episode that we're recording post Hurricane Harvey. Yes. Last one we recorded like in the middle of it. Yeah, we didn't really know what the hell was going on.

We didn't know how bad it was. But I got so many tweets. I got married the night before. We had no clue what was happening. This week, I got so many tweets from people that actually experienced it and were there and told us that we helped them get through it. And you guys are fucking heroes, first of all, to survive that horrible shit.

You're real survivors. So best of luck getting through it. And watching the news coverage and the actual people that I know that are there, seeing that community actually come together to help each other out is fucking phenomenal. My friend Chris Imes is in insurance in Houston, and he stuck around because he's in insurance. He knew he was going to have a shitload of work the next day, and he stuck around and went through the town afterwards delivering shit. He took money out of his own pocket and cleaned out stores. The point is, you guys are amazing.

The people that died there and all the people lost their homes there, obviously, that's brutal. It's horrible. It's terrible. Yeah. If we could just, you know, give you a laugh. Chris Imes, Chase Malden, the whole society. I hope you guys get through it.

And I raised a little bit of cash. I hope it helps. And if you're in Texas and you think it's weird that they're all being nice to each other, don't worry. Wait about a month. Everyone will hate each other again in Texas. Don't worry. All the rednecks will hate the Mexicans and everything will be fine.

We'll get back to normal just soon. Wait until Houston's out of the playoff race and Dallas is still in it. Everyone will be avoiding the black neighborhoods. And this one, no one will interact with each other. It'll be just the same as it was. Don't worry. But going back to the people and emails, you guys that are emailing. Yes, thank you guys.

We get them all. We read them all. Thank you all. Keep those coming. Diana McCann, Daniel Auer. Or Auer? Auer. A-U-E-R.

Auer. Daniel Auer. Kerry Gibbons, Matt Newberg. Chris Ann Costaldi donated a very sizable amount of money to us via PayPal. Thank you, Chris. Yes, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. Really, I have no idea how much that helps.

Our friends at Python Cricket over in England. Yes, thank you guys. Thank you, guys. You guys are awesome. For all your cricket bat needs Our friends at Python Cricket over in England. Yes, thank you guys. Thank you guys. You guys are awesome. For all your cricket bat needs, head to pythoncricket.com. pythoncricket.com. They make a nice cricket bat. They do.

They sent us one. It's beautiful. Solid shit. Meg Dainty, Melissa Hoover, Taisha Jay, Hey Why the Face. That's weird. I like that one. Rachel Powers, Colton Smith, Lindsey Dryest or Dreesed, James M. Hooper, Zach Oberg. Up to his donation. Thanks, Zach. He sends me so many pictures of his M. Hooper, Zach Oberg, up to his donation.

Thanks, Zach. He sends me so many pictures of his dog. Thank you, guys. Great dude. Lisa Harbin, Jen E., Kristen. This one's brutal. I'm positive that she's like, I'm going to donate a buck, at least a buck, just to listen to this fuck try to do this.

I just want to hear him try to tax. She donated more of that. But she's Kristen Sustakowski. Nice. I did. There you go. Sustakowski. Sust – Nice. I did. There you go. You're getting it. That was so shitty.

You're getting it. Kristen Sustakowski. Worse than me pronouncing a town in Minnesota. I think I got it that time. Nikki Thatcher. And even worse, Marija Menher. Mary J. Menher. There you go.

I think that's it. There you go. It's not's it. There you go. It's not, but it's close enough. We'll go with that. Martin Ramsauer, Rebecca Porch, Mike McNamara, or McNamara, Tansin Hunter, Laura Cole, Michelle Long, Mark O'Reilly, Monica Robertson, Dan, I almost got it, Matt DeFilippo. DeFilippo. DeFilippo. That's it. Alex, Alexis. I know the good names. I got those down. Matt DeFilippo. DeFilippo. DeFilippo.

That's it. Alex. Alexis. I know the good names. I got those down. Don't worry. Alexis DeVries. Fiona Crisp.

Dirk Halle. Elizabeth Luby. Adam Lemmer. Mary Virginia Avery. And Adrian P. You guys. Thank you so much, guys. You came through in such a big way this week, and I can't thank you all enough.

So thank you all for participating So thank you all for participating. Thank you all for enjoying it. Thank you all for interacting. You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, and Snapchat, at Wismansucks, W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks. Interact. I appreciate it. I love you guys. Thank you.

And I'm at Jimmy P. It's funny. You can do that or go ahead and copy and paste my last name from the show description. Don't be a hero. Don't try to spell it out. And guys, if you have an extra buck, and let's say you're going to throw us a buck this week and you're like i got this all i have is this buck you could throw it to harvey you can do that we're all right with that and yeah that's fine if you got two bucks you can give us one give us one and and try to hit them up too let's let's

help houston let's help these people out we can do that yeah i don't know there might be a guy named harvey down there lost his house the fuck do you know there's probably several all right fine so we'll figure it out we'll find out how many guys named Harvey in Houston. And without that, guys, it's been our pleasure, guys. We'll see you next week. Bye. I understand that and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media

would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one

and watching along with part two as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts.