Small Town Murder - #43 - The Definition Of Depravity in Scottsbluff, Nebraska

Episode Date: November 8, 2017

This week, we turn our attention out west, to the town of Scottsbluff, Nebraska, where a situation spun out of control, ending in one of the most mind boggling, and unnecessarily viscious murders in history. Just how bad can a person be? We now have an answer to that question. Along the way, we find out how to get a mountain named after yourself, at what point you should worry when someone is missing, and what horrors could be present when the sewer line is clogged!!Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Before we get to the show, just want to remind you guys about some exciting things. Live shows. Live shows.

Live shows. Chicago, Illinois, December 14th at Lincoln Hall. Get your tickets at lh-st.com. Dot com. Dot com. Please do that. Come out and see us there. It's going to be so much fun.

Both shows, Small Town Murder and Crime and Sports. Yes. Come see one or both of them. Yeah. It's going to be so much fun. Both shows, Small Town Murder and Crime and Sports. Yes. Come see one or both of them. Yeah. It's going to be so much fun. Also, Boston at Laugh Boston, February the 18th. Again, Small Town Murder and Crime and Sports. Both shows, one night.

Laugh Boston. Get your tickets at laughboston.com. Dot com. And then a special stand-up show. So good. The two of us, the Jimmys, James and Jimmy, and Dan Cummins as the headliner. Dan Cummins! In Detroit. Detroit, Michigan. February

the 16th. That is a stand-up show. Get your tickets now, and if that show sells fast, guess what, guys? We're gonna add a late show, and it's gonna be a special kind of a podcast with the three of us on it. It's gonna be amazing. Guys, get your tickets for one or all. Travel around the country. We don't care. Treat us like the Grateful Dead. Come see us on it. It's going to be amazing. Guys, get your tickets for one or all. Travel around the country. We don't care.

Treat us like the Grateful Dead. Come see us, guys. Please. Now let's get this show going. This week, we look into the frontier town of Scotts Bluff, Nebraska, where one person's jealousy led to one of the most horrific scenes imaginable. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder.

Yay! Oh, you nailed it, Jimmy. That's a bullseye. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wilson. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy.. That's a bullseye. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wilson. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. We're super excited to be here. Sorry for making you laugh right before I pressed record, but let's get this started right with that. Thank you, folks. With the dead inside, James Petrigallo.

That's right. I am dead inside. That is true. That's what's making Jimmy cackle that I said I was dead inside and then hit record. So that's good. And I am. But that's fine. Moving on. Thank you, folks, so much for not only joining us. I have to thank you guys for all of your amazing iTunes reviews this week. They've been awesome, as usual. You guys come through for us like crazy. I'm telling you guys, we love doing this because you have made us feel like we're doing something that you like.

That's true. And as a comic, you just want to feel like we're doing something that you like. That's true. As a comic, you just want to feel like you're doing something that people enjoy, obviously. And with comedy, you stand up there, you tell a joke, and then you get either a laugh or they stare at you like you're an asshole. You get one of those two responses. You get instant gratification. Yeah, you do a podcast, we might think it's good, but then you put it out and you go,

eh? And you don't know. So, thank you guys. Anybody? Anybody? Those reviews mean the world to us on a personal level. But more importantly, they mean the world to us on a business level. iTunes is a weird algorithm that counts those very heavily. So it really means a lot to get on iTunes and give us five stars. It doesn't matter what you say. It's not for our ego.

You can tell us anything. Tell us your favorite style of hat. And we'll be like, yes, I also like. I enjoy cowboy hats. I enjoy top hats. I enjoy top hats. Yes, I do. A big A blinking stovepipe. That's perfect.

We'll be happy with that. That's great. But yeah, it is on the business end and it helps out a lot. A lot of you guys, like we're going to give a list of producers later, have done even more than that. And you guys are incredible. These people have gone to patreon.com slash crime in sports. They did. That's the name of our other podcast. That's why that's like that. All that money goes to Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports. They did. That's the name of our other podcast.

That's why that's like that. All that money goes to us. But you make a donation there, and I can't tell you how much it's appreciated, really, honestly. Every dollar, every dime just means the world to us. It really does. And if you want to make a one-time donation, you can go over to PayPal and use our email address, CrimeinSports at gmail.com. And you can make a one-time donation, you can go over to PayPal and use our email address, crimeinsports at gmail.com, and you can make a one-time donation there. Yes. And God, like I said, people have given us a dollar, and that's amazing to us.

We don't look at that and go, oh, a dollar, what are we going to do with that? We look at that and go, oh my God, that person took the time to give us a dollar. Like, that's so cool of them and nice of them. So thank you guys for that so much, honestly. Before we get to the show, and it is a doozy today. Really? We have a crazy case today we'll get into. One thing before that we have to do is the disclaimer, obviously. Guys, it's a comedy podcast, everybody. It's the truth. It's a comedy podcast. We're stand-up comedians, as we've just mentioned. We're going to make jokes. There's going to be jokes involved in the show. It's going to happen. It's going to happen.

I promise you, though, we never make jokes at the expense of the victims or the victim's family. No. It's not that bad. We give this warning. It's not that bad. Why do I laugh every time you say that? Well, it's true, because I say this like-

It's not that bad. I give this warning, and I feel like people are like, oh my God, they're going to be making jokes about horrible things. It's not even like that, but just to inoculate ourselves against complaints that there is jokes at all, that there are any jokes in here, we have to tell you this. If you think that true crime and comedy do not belong together at all, then this probably isn't for you. I'd rather not even try to prove you wrong. Yeah, thanks for trying.

Have a good one. But other than that, we're assholes, but we're not scumbags. It's fine. That's what it is. We're going to have a lot of fun. We're going to make fun of a dumb rodeo. A dumb song with a Zuzu rodeo in it for half an hour. That's going to be how it works. And with that said, let's get to it.

What do you say? Let's go on a trip, Jimmy. Okay. What do you say? You got your bags packed? I'm not. Everything ready? No?

Don't leave your toothbrush on the counter. She didn't do laundry again. I'm just going to go in this. Do your own laundry. What's wrong with you? I'll just go in this. All right. Just go in that. It's the PJs. Let's go. Grab an overnight bag. It didn't do laundry again. I'm just going to go in this. Do your own laundry. What's wrong with you? I'll just go in this. All right, just go in that. It's the PJs.

Let's go. Grab an overnight bag. It's not that exciting anyway. There's not going to be a lot of going out, so don't worry about that. We're heading from Vermont down to Nebraska. Going to the center of the, well, not really down, over, to the center of the country. Lovely this time of year. Oh, not lovely at all this time of year, especially where this particular part of Nebraska.

It's Scotts Bluff, Nebraska. It is the far western part of the state. It's in the panhandle part of the state. Never a good part of the state. There's no state with a good panhandle. No, try to get to the main pan, everybody. Just get to the pan because the handle sucks. Florida, Texas, it's never.

Oklahoma, these are never good handles to be in. Someone's got sticky egg on it, and it's gross. It's a dust bowl or a swamp or something horrible like that. I'm using cooking terms, sorry. Oh, it's fine, it's fine. This is in Scotts Bluff County. Odd, though, the town is Scotts Bluff one word, and the county is Scotts Bluff two words. So that makes no sense at all.

It's named after a Scotts Bluff, but I don't understand why they do that. It's some bluff somewhere named after Scott. Right, and Scott's Bluff, as a matter of fact. The county it's in is in. So fucking surprising. It's amazing. Aren't you shocked? Surprising to me, too.

The county it's in is in the far western part of the Panhandle. It borders Wyoming, this county over here. It's dead center of the county, this town. Zip code 69361. Area code 308. It's a decent-sized little town, 6.27 square miles. It's fun when you do geography because I just started thinking, and I didn't realize that Nebraska was that far north. Yeah, yeah, Nebraska's north.

That's crazy. It's above Kansas and Oklahoma. Yeah, just below South Dakota. Wow, holy shit. It's way up there. It borders South Dakota. Yeah, absolutely. It snows in Nebraska. Yeah, just below South Dakota. Wow, holy shit. It's way up there. It borders South Dakota. Yeah, absolutely. It snows in Nebraska.

Yeah, it snows in Nebraska. Wow. This is a rough, this is like where people died on the frontier. We're going to talk about. Yeah, it's like surprising how fucked their weather is. Well, they mention a town here, actually. This is what made me think of this. They mention a town in my reading, and I'm like, oh, that's on Oregon Trail, the game.

And I'm like, holy shit, people die of dysentery here this is terrible people shit themselves this is where little jacob got bit by a rattlesnake this is terrible poor little jacob so uh the the town does not have a slogan but the county has a slogan oh really since they're named the same thing we're gonna go with that county slogan nebraska like you've never seen it what the fuck in other words not as a blur as you drive through it at 75 miles an hour. Nebraska like you've never seen it because nobody ever sees this shit. Because no one's ever seen it unless it's in a blur going 75 miles an hour. He goes, is that wheat?

I don't know. We're in Wyoming now. It was in Scotts Bluff. Who gives a shit? Yeah, it's Scotts Bluff, founded in 1899 officially. It's across the North Platte River from the bluff that is known as Scott's Bluff. It's Scott's Bluff National Monument at this point. It's a national park.

There's a shitload of things up there named Platte. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of Plattes. I'm going to have to do some investigation one day of why the fuck that is. Or I'll just wait for everybody to start tweeting me. Matter of fact, here's an article. By Friday, we'll have 4,000 tweets about Platt. I'll know so much about Platt.

We don't give a shit about Platt, but that's fine. Who the fuck Platt was. This monument here is named after Hiram Scott. He was a guy who actually died at the age of 23. He was a fur trader with the Rocky Mountain Fur Company, and they found him dead at the bottom of there when his party went up for a fur expedition. That's dark as fuck.

He died, according to the town website, he died alone and deserted by his companions at the base of the magnificent formation of bluffs. Beautiful. That is terrible. So it became Scott's Bluff after that. So fucking dark. Don't mess up like Scott.

Wow, they had a smaller town of Gehring, So it became Scott's Bluff after that. So fucking dark. Don't mess up like Scott. Wow. They had a smaller town of Gehring nearby. That was south of the river. That was founded in 1887. And the two cities have kind of been merging together as they grow. The suburbs kind of grow. As they do. Right, right, right.

It's not that big of a place. No. It's just the town expanding. Yeah. Scotts Bluff County was originally part of Cheyenne County, which included pretty much most of the panhandle. But homesteaders started to come out to western Nebraska in the late 1880s. Apparently, in the plains here, there was a bunch of bad winters that really messed up the open cattle range industry. bad winters that really messed up the open cattle range industry.

So the people started going west more and just kind of moving away from places. Cattle problems, Jimmy. This happens. These free rangers. Jesus Christ. Free grazers. I got to tell you, Jimmy, the reason I started comedy was just all these cattle issues. I had about 50 head. It forced me out.

I had about 50 head, but the issues with them. I said, you know what? You guys are on your own. I just opened the gate. I let them go. I didn't care anymore, man. him go sweet christ in 1888 they had an election and uh ended up creating scott's bluff which is the county and uh several other counties in the panhandle to separate themselves from the cheyenne count cheyenne bullshit we have nothing

to do with these cheyenne assholes uh scott's bluff was laid out on the fucking border of wyoming wyoming's that's that cheyenne shit it. Scott's Bluff was laid out. Well, they're on the fucking border of Wyoming. Wyoming, that Cheyenne shit is all over. It's right there. Everything in Wyoming is named after Cheyenne. And there's nothing. The Cheyenne mountain range. They're not near anything in Nebraska. Yeah.

So, like, they go to Wyoming when they're going to the city. They go to Cheyenne. Okay. That's the city. All right. I'm like, we're going over to Cheyenne, not to Lincoln or to Omaha, which I don't go to Lincoln or Omaha. Those are terrible places.

Cheyenne, be thankful that all these people are coming to you and spending their money there. Stop being such dicks. That's true. And I apologize, Omaha, because I don't know anything about Omaha. I've never been there. Lincoln, horrible place. Horrible, horrible, horrible place. It was laid out, the town, in 1899 when they extended the railroad to that.

They're like, now we know where the tracks are. Let's lay this shit out. Before white people were there, it was the Lakota lived there. The Lakota tribe. So many. Teton Sioux. They were some bad motherfuckers, man. Really?

Yeah. Do look up the Lakota tribe and the Teton Sioux. They were really fierce. Really fierce. Didn't take any shit. Tribes, man. Yeah. They were badass up there.

So check them out. A lot of interesting stories about them. I'm big into the West shit like that. I love the Native Americans of that region. Ken Burns, the documentary, the West that was on PBS. It's like an eight-parter. Ken Burns did it and covered all of us, huh? Yeah, I think it's actually his brother, Rick, who produces it.

It's just like Ken Burns shit. It's amazing about the whole history of the West. I can't wait. It's awesome. So now that we've bored you with that, in 1910 there was 1,746 people here by 1910. By 1920, just 10 years later, there

was 7,000 people here. Holy shit. So this place blew up. It's a 296% increase in 10 years. Is it beautiful? I mean, I guess from a picture, but it's not a place you'd want to go stand in the middle of and go, yeah, it's beautiful. Now what?

You know what I mean? Now what do I do? Pictures are great. There's got to be shit to do there. Not really. There's a lot of people from this county, actually, in this town. Hank Bauer, who was a football player. Brooke Berenger, who's the quarterback.

Hilarious. Shit quarterback. Miss America 2011. How about that? There you go. Graduated from Scott's Bluff High and everything, man. Look at that. Here is a fact that is as dry as a Sahara

Desert fart. It is the driest thing I ever... This is how boring. I found this interesting and I'm like, I have to share this even though it's the most boring fact ever. I think that's only the second time in 43 episodes that the word fart has been used. Possibly. That's possibly. It was fart girl and this. Fart girl. Was that crime and sport? I think that's only the second time in 43 episodes that the word fart has been used. Possibly. That's possibly. But it was fart girl and this.

Fart girl. Was that crime and sport? I think that was this. That might have been this, yeah. Either way, it's two times. And both times, I just want to let everybody know, they make me laugh and it wasn't me. That's great. I'm denying the fart.

That's awesome. I'm denying. I am denying. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm denying. I am denying. Yeah, it wasn't me. Here it is. Here's the Sahara Desert fart fact. In Nebraska, in the license plate system in Nebraska, are you intrigued already? Scotts Bluff County is represented by the prefix 2-1 since the county had the 21st largest number of registered vehicles

when the state's license plate system was established in 1922. Why did you dig that? I have no idea because I'm an asshole and I dig up facts and I found that interesting and I'm like, I wrote it down and I went, no one cares about that. And I went, well, I'll make a joke out of why no one cares about it. And I still get to say it. So there you go. Big shit.

You got a fact. A dry Sahara desert. That's it. That's going to be a so there you go big shit you got a fact that's it that's gonna be a new feature the dry sahara desert fart fact it's just the most boring fact i can find that's coming folks you know me i'll put a new segment that is awesome uh so let's get to the people of this town population 14 802 uh it's not bad it's a pretty good, decent-sized small town here. Median age, 35.7, which is about two years shy of the national average, so it's a younger crowd. A lot of times when you get these western places and things where there's outdoor, it seems like a younger place. It's not built for the old. I feel like these cold, like open expanse type places.

They're not long for this world. They're not, yeah. They're far from hospitals and shit. They need to be somewhere near a medical facility where they can be shocked back into coherence if there's a problem. You know, I feel like anyway. More females than males here. Almost 54% female, which is way above the average, usually about 51-49. Married population is actually lower.

It's funny, but usually when we have a male more heavily populated with males, we get a lower marriage rate, which is strange. But here, it's more heavily populated with females and a lower marriage rate than normal. They're not having it. Honestly, it's just an odd fact. I don't know if it means anything, but it's just a weird statistical anomaly. Maybe it just means those mountain dudes are scum. Maybe.

I think they're dirtbags here. We'll talk about plenty of dirt bags this week as we get into probably the most horrible shit we've covered maybe this week. It's close. A lot of times those country boys are great dudes, but sometimes they're just complete... Psychopaths sometimes. It's never

like a middle-of-the-road guy. It's either like a salt-to-the-earth sweetheart or a complete fucking lunatic. Or what you'd expect from someone who's been killing animals since they were four you know what i mean no skin it like this bobby that's not good to teach a kid i mean we it's funny because you know and in environments like i don't care if you hunt whatever but environments like that we that's considered fine right but like i live in we live in phoenix and if my son brought home an animal and started skinning it i would immediately take him to the psychiatrist and he'd be on medication.

What the fuck is wrong with this kid? Yeah. Fuck, man. He's going to be a serial killer. I'd be freaking out. In the West and down South, they're like, good job. A travel bond. Took a clean off.

Look at that. Took that skin clean off. Thanks, Chuck. Okay. It's just different culture. Whatever, man. Widowed population. Again, it's a younger town, but there's more widows than usual here by about two percent which is odd uh more divorce than here than normal so it's volatile shit's volatile on

the plains man that's all i can uh ascertain out of all this especially up there like it is it's that's just so strange because i know country folks i know some quite hillbilly inbred people no i guess not inbred no i know hillbilly people that live like a very very simple lifestyle that they hunt they fish they and they're and they're amazing people and their lives stay together and they're why they stay with their wife they keep it all together but this shit is volatile as fuck they're figuring out how to get out of it somehow they are they're getting out of it god damn it they're running. Race of this town, white is about 65%, which is just about average. This is about normal.

It's almost 63% normal. 1.07% black, so not a lot of black people here out on the western plains, as you might imagine. We've still got like 33% to go. Yeah. Asian, 1.05%. They have two restaurants and some ancestry from the railroad leftovers. I don't see any Asians saying, you know what? San Francisco's nice, but let's go to Scott's Bluff, Nebraska. What do you say?

That sounds good. You ever heard of Scott's Bluff? Yeah. There's no R's in it. Well, there's an L. Oh, Jesus. Andrew, ladies and gentlemen, my partner, Andrew Jackson. That was beautiful.

Jesus Christ. You ever heard of Scott's bruff? By the way, shit like that, in the first, like, 25 episodes, I used to cut shit like that out. Because I'd be like, ah, people are going to be mad. Now I'm like, no, we're just going to make fun of it because fucking accidents happen and Jimmy doesn't care and he doesn't hate Asians. So it's fucking, it happens. It's just a, Andrew Jackson. It's fine. So.

Jesus Christ. So the remaining, there's only 1.2% Native American, which I would expect more in that area. But there's no reservation there. So I guess they left. They pushed on. Almost 30% Hispanic. My goodness. Over 29% Hispanic.

That's fascinating. It's very fascinating, which I honestly would not expect in that region whatsoever. I would never guess that. Not at all. Religion, 50% of the people are religious there, which is exactly on the nose kind of average. 16.5% Catholic, which are Catholics. That's the Latin. Baptists of the Plains, I guess now.

Yeah, if you're going to have Hispanic people, you're going to get a lot of Catholics here. 2.41% LDS. So you're going to expect that here. 0.0% Jewish, 0.0% Muslim, as one might imagine. So you know there's going to be horrible things happening just based on the statistics and what we've come to find from the past. Let's see. In our unscientific. And are completely just by what we see with these towns.

Right. You don't have a Muslim. You don't have a Jew. Shit's going to go awry. Apparently horrible things are going to happen just based on this. No other statistics. Legs are breaking and children are dying. It's horrible. So about 30 percent are registered as Democrats in this town, 67 percent as Republicans.

So all the rest of that religion obviously are some other form of Christianity. It's just all – yeah, other forms of different muddled whatever, just different – Right. It's muddled. What a word. Prespa Methodist, you know, whatever. A paleon. Prespa Methodist Paleon.

There's some executive somewhere of every church. Presidistipalian. There you go. That's one of those. The unemployment rate here is a little less than the national average, but they have a negative job growth. So that's not terrific here. Yeah. I don't know if it's stagnant out there or what. Median household income here is about $37,800, which is about $15,000 below the national average. Jobs here are pretty standard, actually, across the board. There's more health care, actually, than usual, which is an odd thing here. What I did find, though, is I found some statistics on what these jobs make, what they earn, compared to national average. And it's pretty interesting because they're much less.

For instance, if you have a computer or math job, what's considered in that region, that, you know, John Rope job. Engineering of some sort, right? It is. Well, that's different. There's architecture and engineering. Oh, OK. But if you have a computer math here, your average, you're going to make about $33,000 a year. Nationally, you're going to make $73,000 a year.

Wow. And that goes for engineering, too. $44,000 a year is compared to $74,000 a year. What would be the fucking allure of going there i mean well let's find out here uh the cost of living let's do that we say 100 is par cost of living here is 87 overall sure uh which is a little lower but the main thing is housing is a 59 okay 59 in housing so you get cheap housing uh some of the other stuff because it's a little rural or a little more expensive but you get cheap housing median Some of the other stuff, because it's a little rural or a little more expensive, but you get cheap housing. Median home cost here is $110,000.

So that tells you a lot right there. About 25% of the homes are between $100,000 and $150,000. So it's very affordable to live here. And if we've convinced you somehow to move to Scotts Bluff, Nebraska, we have for you the Scotts Bluff, Nebraska Real Estate Report. for you, the Scotts Bluff, Nebraska Real Estate Report. All right, there we go here. Two-bedroom apartment here goes for about $680 on the whole. That's so catchy.

It is. It's a catchy little tune. It's about $400 less than the national average. I found us here a four-bedroom, two-bath starter home, 1,100 square feet. Not a lot of outdoor space. Four-bedroom. Four-bedroom. Two-b two bath starter home 1100 square feet not a lot of outdoor space four bedroom four bedroom two bath and 1100 how the fuck do you squeeze that it's squeezed into a neighborhood there's a house behind it a house right next to it not a lot of outdoor space here people this is uh you know you gotta move in and not but not a lot to upkeep either here that's the other thing 102 000 this is good for a Golden Girls type situation. You have all the bedrooms and no one has to mow the lawn. It's perfect. Fantastic. You can do that. $102,000, that's a very good price. I found a three-bedroom, two-bath,

1,700-square-foot house. Very nice yard, nice outdoors. $159,900. Not bad. Doable. Then if you want to move in, you want to really be comfortable, kick your feet up. You've been very successful. We're all out. Now you're going to go here. We have one of those $30,000 a year math jobs. You have one of those. Yeah, you're living large.

We have a four-bedroom, three-bath, 3,500-square-foot house. Holy shit. Very nice exterior. Nice house. $273,000. That's a huge house for that price. But you have to live in Nebraska. Right.

That is the drawback. Things to do. They have the Legacy of the Plains Museum. And I saw a picture of it. And it looks like the bleakest place on earth. It's just this. Legacy of the Plains Museum. You go in.

You look at wheat. And you look at a picture of a dead horse. Yeah. I assume a lot of maybe Native American things. Maybe a Scot hung up in there. Scot's bones are over there. Just a reenactment. They reenact him dying at the base of the mountain at noon every day.

It looks like the bleakest place on earth, this place. Does not look fun. What the fuck is their legacy? I don't get it. Chimney Rock is nearby. That's Oregon Trail. Right. Yeah, that is it.

That's Oregon Trail. Chimney Rock. I got so excited when I saw that. And Facebook page on their things to do for sightseeing. The number 14 thing to do. By the way, there's some not fun shit to do on here. The number 14 thing to do. I want to hear all 13 things above this.

This is the Region 22 Emergency Management Center. What the fuck? I have no idea. But it's just like this bleak government building. It looks like a shed. It's an emergency what? Emergency management center. They manage emergencies there.

It looks like where they put bad kids in school, like where they teach them off in another class in a trailer outside of the real building where they only don't even have air conditioning or anything. There's a brush fire. Everybody assembles there to discuss what their fucking plan of action is. Crime rates in this town, what we're interested in here, the crime. Absolutely. Let's see here. Property crime here is almost double the national average. My God.

They will steal your shit in this town. I don't know what it is. I don't know if it's because you can get over to Cheyenne in a heartbeat or what the story is. Skip fucking state lines. Watch your horse in this town because they're going to steal it, boy. It's a bunch of horse-thieving bastards over here. But violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, assault, is about 40% lower than the national average.

And I was looking at the stats. They've had, like, one murder since 2011 in this town. Yeah, like, they had, like, a breakdown year by year of, like, you know, four rapes this year and five. Like, it's a pretty safe town in general, basically. It's a nice, safe, boring small town is the best way to describe it. But it wasn't so safe or so boring for some people, as we'll get into here. All right.

Let's start out. Let's go back on our calendars. We're away on a trip. We're in Scotts Bluff. Now let's flip back the calendar. Guys, we're traveling across time and land here. Wind is blowing. Lightning is flashing. Oh, there's shit swirling. And the we're traveling across time and land here. Wind is blowing. Lightning is flashing.

Oh, there's shit swirling. And the pages of a calendar are just – Oh, flying by. Yeah, just spinning. Absolutely. Flying by. We're seeing historical figures pass us. We're only going to 1993.

Oh, that was a quick trip. So it's not that many historical figures. It's like Kurt Cobain is going one way and Alan Iverson another. Columbine boys running by. Hey, look at them. There they go. Hey, somebody stop those kids. So we're in 1993.

Buildings just went back up. That was weird. Oh, look at that. Well, that's good anyway. We got that going on. Hey, terrific. Good job, guys. Nice structure.

Maybe we could reinforce that now. Just trust me. Build a bubble around those. Just trust me on this one. Maybe make this a no-fly zone. This is 93. This is when they tried to knock down the World Trade Center the first time. Yeah, this was the first time.

So they reinforced it after that. But that's not in our scope at all. We're in Nebraska. Okay. Biggie's just rapping about it right now. That's all. Exactly. Yeah.

That lyric is very pressing. That's legit. I like that one. 1993, Patricia Gomez starts a relationship with a young man named Robert Billy. Okay. He could be Bobby Billy. That could be this man's name. That's ridiculous.

His friends call him Bobby Billy. That's Bobby Billy. There goes Bobby Billy. And then it's not first, middle. That's first and last. Bobby Billy. That's right away. The first thing I read about this story is Bobby Billy here.

You're like, I'm in. Yeah, Bobby Billy here. Like I'm in Robert Billy. I'm like, I need more. There's a character in here and possibly that goes by Bobby Billy. Holy shit, man. I need to know about all of this. Everything.

In the plains of Nebraska, there's a Bobby Billy. Bobby Billy. We got shit to talk about. What the hell's wrong with his parents? His parents are assholes. That's what's wrong with them. Complete dicks.

You could have named him something. Anything. Chet. Anything. That's a terrible name. Anything. Chester. At least it's not Bobby Billy.

No, that's awful. Bobby Billy. It's Johnny Billy, Bobby Billy. Because that's the thing. That's their last name. If he has brothers, it's going to be Bobby Billy, Johnny Billy, Billy Billy.

It's a terrible, terrible family. If they named one Billy Billy, I'll kick him in the dick. If one of them is named William, I swear to Christ, I swear to God, all these people need to die if that's the case. And you know what? I blame you, Scott's bluff, for letting them get away with this. This is the truth. That's the problem. You guys need bullies in your town.

Yes. Because with a bully, this shit doesn't happen. Yeah. If there's a guy walking around your town named William Billy, you just go and you hit him right on the back of the head with the heaviest object you can find when he doesn't see anything coming. Now, we can't endorse violence, but I think that's putting him out of his own misery. Let's be honest here.

Just end it for the poor guy. End it for the poor bastard. These two, Bobby Billy and Patricia Gomez, move in together in Scotts Bluff, Nebraska. This is a young couple in Scotts Bluff. This is what dreams are made of here, Jimmy, isn't it? This is like you can feel the, you know, they write songs about this type of shit. You move to Scotts Bluff with Bobby Billy. It's beautiful, man.

It's just beautiful. Billy Joel had some really good piano tunes about this. It's fantastic. 1996, they're together about three years at this point, and they have a son. Oh. They have a little boy named Adam. So Adam is born here. Adam Billy.

Adam Billy. Actually, he's Adam Gomez because they don't get married, and she says, I'm not going to give him your stupid last name that people make fun of. This is brilliant. Thank you, Patricia. Patricia's smart. She's got some gumption about her. I like it.

She's thinking. Patricia, you're thinking on your feet. That's a good job there. Good job. My kid's not going to be bullied. No. That's got some gumption about her. I like it. She's thinking. Patricia, you're thinking on your feet. That's a good job there. Good job. My kid's not going to be bullied. No. That's what it is, Bobby. I will name him Gomez.

I will not give him your dumb last name. Less make fun of him than that. So these two, it's a tumultuous relationship, though, as it's a young couple that move in together and have kids. Things happen. You know what I mean? So by September 1998- And one of them's name is Bobby Billy.

That's the other thing. There's going to be problems. There's going to be problems. There is going to be cops called at some point. For sure. At some point the cops are going to go, Bobby, Bobby, Patricia. Please put your pants on, Bobby. Come on, Bobby.

Come on now. Dumb Nasty is the cop. Yeah, he is. Bobby, please put your pants on. That's it. Put your pants on. Why did I have to ask you twice? That's goes, Bobby, please put your pants on. That's it. Put your pants on. Why did I have to ask you twice? That's it, Bobby.

Oh, Bobby Billy, you poor bastard. So Bobby Billy moves out of their house in Scottsbluff here in September of 1998. Yeah. I don't know. We don't know what their deal was. Just young love gone awry, we'll call it at this point, rather than anything else. We're chalking up to the stats in this town that no fucking marriages or relationships last. That's the other thing, too.

So we're going to keep it there. Adam, the young son at this point, he's like a year old, two years old. He stays with the mother. He stays with Patricia, obviously, because Bobby Billy can't raise a kid. No, there are no courts giving a man named Bobby Billy a child to raise. Sorry. No, I'm the presiding judge white over this case. Bobby Billy, Bobby Billy. She wins. Thank you No. I'm the presiding judge white over this case. Please state your name. Bobby Billy.

She wins. Here, I got the... There you go. It's a case done. Case dismissed. We got a gavel in the mail. We will give that to her. This is amazing that somebody sent us a gavel. Kelsey. Kelsey sent us a gavel and engraved on the top is fuck off. This is the

you certainly fuck off gavel. So if you hear that, that's going to be when a judgment is rendered. And we will echo it throughout the land. And we will send the kids with Miss Gomez instead of Bobby Billy. Exactly. They have no legal custody arrangement, these two. They didn't go to court and write up papers and say, they were just like, well, you keep them. All right.

I'll come see them sometimes. All right. And then that was the end of it right there. That's their legal custody arrangement. I like it. I'm going to come see the boy sometimes. All right. And that's it right there.

Done. There's a lot of all right being said. All right. Yeah, I don't feel like these people have a lot of follow-up questions. It's a handshake agreement and all right. Yeah, if you're going out with a guy named Bobby Billy, you don't ask a lot of questions, I feel like. You just kind of go with the flow. You say, all right, that's fine.

The person that should have asked questions was your father, and he didn't ask enough, and you guys are together. Bobby Billy asks his question. You pregnant? Yeah. All right. That's all he says. All right. Moving on.

Patricia meets another young man named Raymond Mata Jr. We know our history with juniors. Juniors are no good. If you go by Crime and Sports, our other podcast, an inordinate amount of the criminal athletes have juniors. And it's really staggering, honestly. It really is. We haven't encountered that with small-town murder. Not a lot.

There's been a couple. It's only like statistically it seems like that's an athlete thing. You better be a professional in some sort of sport for it to really affect your life. But it's gonna. It's gonna. It's fucking gonna. Right after Billy Bobby moves out, or Bobby Billy, I like Billy Bobby better. That's a better name for him.

If he was Billy Bobby, I could go with him, but not Bobby Billy. So Bobby Billy moves out, and pretty much immediately right after that. I mean, she's a young woman. She finds a young young man to date here. Raymond Mata is 26 years old. They begin dating. Now she knows Mata because her best friend, Monica, is his sister. So she's known the family.

She knows Mata well through her through his sister. They're best friends. So, I mean, you you know, your best friend's sibling, you know, if you're in a small town especially. I feel a lot of this girl hooked her up with Raymond. You know what I mean? Monica had a hand in this. What about my brother?

Either that or I think he was just there. And in a small town like this in 1993 or 1998. Drunk in a barn somewhere and all of a sudden there's, you know. There wasn't a lot of online dating at that point or anything like that. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, as a small town like that, you pretty much had, I'm going to go to the general store and see who's down there. That's about it. And apparently Raymond Mata –

Bobby Bill is an asshole, so how about Raymond? How about Raymond? Raymond was down at the general store picking out some feed and he – there's no feed. He's at the tax store. He's at the tax store picking out some feed. And he, there's no feed. He's at the tax store. He's at the tax store there, yeah. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our new sponsor, eHarmony.com.

eHarmony.com. eHarmony.com. Everybody, are you looking for a relationship? Who isn't? Who isn't out there? Are you looking for a real relationship? You're not looking for a hookup. You're not looking for things like that. You're looking for something long lasting with somebody that you match up well with. Sure. The place where you can find that is eHarmony.com. You can't get to know someone

just by looking at their picture and deciding that instant what you need to know some things about them. eHarmony is built up to help you find lasting, meaningful relationships, not a shallow hookup. It's not a hookup site. They've helped over 1 million people find their perfect match. We actually, because neither of us can really use this product since we are married. My wife wouldn't approve. Neither would mine. She would be very upset about that, and I wouldn't approve of her using it either.

So we actually gave this to one of our listeners and said, tell us about your experience with it. And she actually really likes it. She said she's finding people that are decent, like actual people, professional people, because she's a professional. She said she's finding professional people that she actually has things in common with. And she's actually kind of excited about meeting some of them, which is amazing. I'm really happy for her. That's really, really cool. So stop waiting and start your journey to a satisfying, meaningful relationship.

It can be fun to play around with online dating apps, but when you're ready to fall in love with someone and have a meaningful relationship, there's only one app that's built to bring you real love, and that's eHarmony. eHarmony.com. Come see how eHarmony can change your life. Go to eHarmony.com and get started. Enter the code SMALL at checkout. That's eHarmony.com. Enter the code SMALL.

And now back to the show. She hooks up with him. They get together. In October, Mata moves in. So a month later, Mata's in the house. My God. So Raymond is in the house quickly. I don't know how Bobby Billy feels about all of this.

Not his business. Maybe he said, all right. Who's moving in? All right. She said, you going to come see the boy? All right. Bobby Billy, that's all he ever says is all right. You pregnant?

All right. That's his only, his three words in his vocabulary. You pregnant? All right. That's it. That's all he's had to train himself for. He rolled over in the hay next to,

next to Raymond and goes, uh, you want to move in? He goes, all right. All right. That's what it says. All right.

I feel like every question is answered. Later on in court, they just go, do you find the defendant guilty? And a jury foreman stands up and takes a deep breath and clears his throat and holds out the paper and says, all right. And that's the end of it. They strip him off to prison, I think. That's how the system works there.

Just picture him getting himself all situated. Okay, man, get my paper, okay. All right. That's the end. I see it to get my paper, okay. All right. That's the end. I see it happening in my head. It makes me really happy. God, it's so beautiful to see, too. You guys are missing it.

It's gorgeous. Missing my awful performance piece over here. Jesus Christ. Bobby Billy on the jury. That's fucking incredible, yeah. So he moves in there. They're all in there. Mata, it's said, because the boy lives there, too, Adam Gomez, the child.

He's now two and a half, three years old, going on three. He's not, Brayman doesn't treat the boy badly, but doesn't really have much interest in him. Well, yeah, it's not his kid. It's not his kid. And he's just kind of a dick. He's a 26-year-old guy who goes, all right, when he has questions. He's not real into it uh patricia says that uh she did feel like he had a resentment for adam that raymond had a resentment for adam and i thought that he was quote in the way all the time okay because i mean he's a young guy he wants to bang around with some chick he met down

at the general store and he's like you know what the fuck man i don't know trying to moisten his tip and the kids coming around talking about, I want goldfish. And a three-year-old's a handful. A two to three-year-old's a handful. Oh my God. Two to three? No, no. Two is, by the way, terrible twos, go fuck yourself.

That's nothing compared to when they're three. When they're three, they can talk back. That's the problem. They have thoughts that they form and talk back. They don't just say no. You can deal with no, but you can't deal with no and here's why. That's a problem at that point. They go, no, you're ugly. They don't just say no. You can deal with no, but you can't deal with no and here's why. That's a problem at that point. No, you're ugly.

They say things to you. All right, you walk away and you're like, I don't know how to fucking deal with that. That's what happens. This is unfair. I can't even punch you for that. What am I supposed to say?

You're ugly? Can't you tell your four-year-old daughter that? No, that can't happen. They're so much stronger when they're three than when they're two. They break so much shit. My son broke my TV,

hammered the fucking screen, and I couldn't even punch him for it. I'm like, this is really, I don't even get to fight back? Yeah, it's strange. I've got to go return this now and buy a new TV. And he gets to just smile, and he gets more goldfish. This is bullshit. He gets a new TV, too.

He's happy with the way this worked out, I think, is how that works. Like, yeah, this is how I planned it. I got a new TV, and all I had to do was break the old one. Bubble guppies look better on this one. That's right, man. So by February, February the 10th, 1999, Robert, or Robert, Raymond Mata moves

out of this place. He's done. He's done. So it was a few months in and out. I mean, it's a quick relationship. Four or five months, who cares? No big deal. That's not even a relationship. Yeah, I mean, he moved in, so we'll call it a relationship. But other than that, I mean, it's not whatever. That same night, Bobby Billy comes over. Yeah.

Bobby Billy comes over to the house. Heard you're single. She said, you want to come over tonight? And he said, all right. He knew what the fuck that meant. And they do know what it meant because they have sexual relations that night. And I don't care either way who has sex with who, but it's important to the story that you know who's banging who on what day and when. Got it.

It comes up. We'll say that. This matters. It matters. I don't care. These are facts in a case. I don't care how many guys named Bobby, Jimmy, Johnny, Billy you bang. It doesn't matter to me, but it needs to be known.

It needs to be known. So the next day, February 11th, I don't know if this is at the behest of Bobby Billy or friends or whatever, but on February 11th, Patricia obtains a restraining order against Raymond Mata, which is an odd thing. And I don't know if that would have caused some strife with the sister probably, too, unless the sister's like, totally, what an asshole. Because a dick. But I don't think she does that, as we'll find out later on here uh but she continues to see raymond mata how do you do that well i well shit i mean i guess if you don't break the restraining order yeah that's the thing she files a restraining order it's young it's just young white trash tumultuous yeah that's

what it feels like young trashy tumultuous love just you know i don like this one. I'm going to have a restraining order against him. But then I like him and he's coming over to the trailer and he said, all right. So it's one of those things. Lots of Faith Hill songs running through her head about missed love. Yeah, I don't know what's going on with people. The problem is that there hasn't been Carrie Underwood out yet. She needs to get angry. She needs to come out and tell her, go key that motherfucker's car and get over it.

That's well, yeah. Or or just hide from this man. You have a restraining order. Use it there. Or well, then again, that doesn't do anything. It's not like she can hold it up. She's not over it. That's the problem.

She can't just fucking say she can't leave well enough alone. Yeah. If he contacted her to initiate this, she didn't call the police. And if he and if she contacted him, then obviously it's different. It's not how you deal with something when you're scared. No, it's true. It's not. But I mean, like I said, she's young.

I can't fault the girl. I can't fault this woman because she's young. And she's young. She's a single mother. I feel like in the middle of Nebraska, I don't know, you've got to feel like you're grasping it for anything at that point. Straws of any kind. I don't know. You've got to feel like you're grasping it for anything at that point.

Straws of any kind. So she sees him. On February 14th, Patricia and Raymond Mata have sexual relations here. So they have sex that night. So that's, you know, three days later or four days later, and it's Valentine's Day. Very romantic, I'm sure. I could see the fire. Picture the fire, nice dinner, restraining order on the table next to him.

You know what I mean? Right there in the middle. A tire burning. Food, tire burning dinner restraining order on the table next to him you know what i mean right there in the middle a tire burning food tire burning restraining order sitting there now that's white trash romance right there i gotta tell you i gotta i think these people are hispanic but that's still white trash whatever bobby billy's not hispanic you don't have to be you don't have to be white to be white oh no that's the thing they're white trash as crazy as we found out on crime and sports last week. You don't listen to Crime and Sports. You don't have to like sports. Very funny. And we found out that you do not have to be white to be white trash.

So, late February 1999, Patricia realizes she's pregnant. Uh-oh. Uh-oh is right. So, this is why I said it's important that we know when she had sex with who and what day. We have a three-day window for her to be pregnant by either dude. Either guy. So, this is why I said it's important that we know when she had sex with who. We have a three-day window for her to be pregnant by either dude. Either guy.

So this is not great for everybody involved, I would say, including Patricia. Again, that's a scary situation to be in. She tells Monica, her best friend, who then tells Raymond Mata about it. Mata tells Monica to go with Patricia to her doctor's appointment. So Raymond tells his sister, go with Patricia to the doctor's appointment to find out when the child was conceived. They're trying to find out a conception date here. Listen, it's too early, Ray.

They're trying. You've got to wait until that thing's done and out the oven, and then you do a DNA test. That's how you find out. Otherwise- Well, they are told, I don't know how this doctor nailed it down to such a... Really? Patricia was told that the child was conceived between February 7th and 10th, which that is amazing

doctoring right there. I don't know how they figured out that. Well, that kind of fucks both of them, by the way. Well, the 10th is when she had sex with... Oh, I thought you said the 11th. No, the 11th is the restraining order. Oh, gotcha. 10th, Bobby Billy. 10th, she had all right sex. Bobby Billy, restraining order on the 11th, modest sex on the 11th. No, the 11th is the restraining order. Oh, gotcha. 10th, Bobby Billy. 10th, she had all right sex. Bobby, restraining order on the 11th. Modest sex on the 14th. Jesus. There's quite the timeline here.

So that's Monica tells Raymond about this. He says, all right. He tells Monica, well, guess it's not mine then. That's what he says. This is my kid. So that's that, which is probably best if he doesn't have kids, considering how one was in the way anyway. No doubt. Don't know if he's that great with children in general.

So on March 8th, 1999, this is, you know, like a week and a half later, Raymond sees Bobby Billy at a party. Yeah. Okay. Jesus, these small towns, man. You've got these two together at the same party. Why are they? They both still have Patty's stank on them. They all know.

God, they all know the same people. Yeah. It's just both still have Patty's stank on them. They all know. God, she's stank. They all know the same people. Yeah. It's just so weird. This one's this one's sister. They're at the same party. That's what's so weird about these small towns. In a city, it's like anonymous and you have to find.

This is like you run into the guy you hate everywhere you go. Otherwise, you got to log on to Facebook to find him. Yeah, this is insane. So they there. He sees Raymond sees Bobby Billy at a party and confronts him about Bobby Billy's relationship with Patricia. Okay. Confronts him about it. Hey, were you banging

Patricia? And he's like, I guess so. And he's like, well, I am too. I don't know. There was restraining order on you. So I thought it was fine. So the next afternoon, it's weird. All of a sudden he's pissed off now, Raymond Mott. I don't know. I feel like it was a lot more confusing of a conversation, though. It was probably like, you banging her?

All right. Yeah, all right. It's very hard when both sides are just saying, all right. You banging her? All right. You banging her? All right. Yeah, I think that's what happened when he found out it wasn't his kid, too.

He goes, not my kid? All right. That's it. Don't care about nothing. And then they just went, all right, back and forth until they had a beer together. Yeah. That's it. I don't care about nothing.

And then they just went, all right, back and forth until they had a beer together. Yeah. Then someone's nose started bleeding like Stranger Things when Eleven is moving objects. And then they just sat down and had a beer. That's how it goes. They go back and forth, all right, all right, all right. One of their nose starts bleeding. Like one of the kids from the Hawkins Lab on Stranger Things.

And that's what happens, man. Oh, my God. That's unbelievable. So have you watched Stranger Things, by the way? I saw it. It's fucking great, man. No, I haven't seen it. You should check it out. I'll be honest.

I haven't seen it, but I've seen snippets and clips of it online that I'm fascinated by already. I've heard it's fucking great. Blown away by the child actors on it. They're amazing for teenagers. That's what was impressive to me. Really good acting for teenagers. Good storytelling. It's just good shit. I thought it was true. The Ghostbusters the child actors on it. They're amazing for teenagers. That's what was impressive to me. Really good acting for teenagers. Good storytelling. It's just good shit. The Ghostbusters skit was fucking incredible.

That was good shit, man. That was really good. That's the one thing that's on Halloween. A lot of nods to movies and stuff, but we'll move on from that. It's very good. We have 11 styled nosebleeds happening here about this. Alright, alright. March 11th, 1999.

Yeah, this timeline here. Patricia and Bobby Billy get together to take Adam to a doctor's appointment with the baby. They were seen by while they were in town. Again, small town. You're never seen by anybody. You could cheat on your wife all over town. Nobody would see you. We're comics in town and lots and lots of people have seen. I mean, nobody would see you. And like, we're comics in town, and we've, you know,

lots and lots of people have seen our faces. We'd still see nobody. Nobody would know shit. We'd still see nobody that recognizes us at all whatsoever. So, but in this small town, a little different. Bobby, Billy, and Patricia are seen by a friend of Raymond Mata, who then immediately tells Raymond Mata, hey, I saw Bobby, Bobby Billy and Patricia together.

And he said, all right. And he stored that in his little pea brain. By the way, Mata's got an IQ of about 85. Really? He's got an 85 IQ, this guy. Oh, Jesus. There's not a lot of nuance here. I think all right is about right, what we got here.

You're probably nailing it. Yeah. He's like Forrest Gump with one less shot to the head is all he is. So it's not great. And I don't know why he would be mad about that anyway. They're taking their child to the doctor. Maybe he had insurance that she could – he doesn't know how the hell that works or anything like that. Maybe he was going to pay for the appointment.

She's not pregnant with your baby anymore. That's the other thing. You're not even together. She, as a matter of fact, has a restraining order against you, which is the opposite of being together, honestly. You should be thrilled right now. He is legally not allowed to be near her, never mind in a matter of fact, has a restraining order against you, which is the opposite of being together, honestly. You should be thrilled right now. He is legally not allowed to be near her, never mind in a relationship with her. So Mata here, Raymond Mata, makes repeated attempts to try to get Patricia to come to Monica's house with him. Okay?

Because he moves into Monica's house at this point. He lives with his sister. So he keeps trying to call Patricia and saying, hey, come to Monica's, come to Monicaica's she does not go patricia says no i'm not going over there you know restraining order and all right so that evening raymond says well i'll just come to you then you don't want to come here all right i'll come to you all right all right exactly i'll come to you so he does he goes over to her house which again restraining order terrible god damn cops at this point but i get it. She's trying.

I feel like she's scared of him and she's trying to not. Just keeps the peace. Trying to not poke the bear. Maybe if I can just, you know, yes him and all right him to death here and he'll go away and I won't, you know, be murdered. All right him on down the road. Yeah, I'll just all right him right out the door. Tell your story.

All right. That's it. Right there. So. Kick all rights. That's right, man. So she lets him in uh adam was watching television the three-year-old he's watching television in the living room and uh raymond tells him to go to bed sends him to bed patricia then falls asleep on the love seat in the living

room while her and modder are watching television this is the other thing he didn't come on like they came over to what just have like an old married couple night in front of the TV? This is weird. I could see like, you know, TV dinners in front of them and shit on trays. Like, it's very strange watching the local news. Titanic on VHS. Watching Airwolf reruns or some poor shit like that. Horrible.

So they're doing that. They're watching TV. She fell asleep. She said that she woke up. And when she woke up, Adam and Raymond Mata were both gone. What? They're both gone, and so was the sleeping bag that Adam had been using as a blanket. No.

Again, when you know you're white trash, your kid doesn't have an actual blanket when you're using a sleeping bag as a blanket. So Patricia, obviously, is like, hey, where'd my baby go? That's a reasonable response, I would say. I don't think she all righted that situation. So she calls Mata on his cell phone. He's got a cell phone in 1998, not bad, 1999. It's that voice stream one, that Nokia with the face change in plate.

Yeah, it's one of those big boys there with an antenna that you can pull up a little bit. I'll get a little better reception. I'll pull this antenna two inches out of my phone. This two-inch plastic antenna. That's going to do it. There's no metal in it. Nope, not at all. So she calls him.

It's 3.37 in the morning. She calls him because that's when she woke up. Raymond tells Patricia, I don't know where he is. What? Like, that's a mighty big coincidence. You two are here. I wake up. Neither of you are here.

You're the adult. You both decide to leave. Maybe you went out to the diner or for a nightcap. You never know. That's possible. He wanted some hash browns right now. He was craving them. Kid wanted some warm milk. We've been smoking weed all night. He was to leave. Maybe he went out to the diner or for a nightcap. You never know. It's possible. He wanted some hash browns right now. He was craving them. Kid wanted some warm milk.

We've been smoking weed all night. He was really hungry. He was craving them. I don't know where he went. He's teaching me new words. Yeah. He's teaching me something besides, all right. So Mata comes right over to Patricia's house and tells her that, this is what he tells her.

I don't know. He's probably with Bobby Billy or your mother. They came over in the middle of the night and just took the baby without telling her. Just picked him up. What the fuck? I don't know. That's what happens all the time, right? That's an explanation from a guy with an 87 IQ.

Yeah. For sure. I don't know. I don't know. So she went back to sleep. What? That's what I don't get. She said, all right, and went back to sleep.

Your baby's gone. How do you know? Okay, this is where I part ways with Patricia as far as I feel bad for her and I understand where she's coming from. At this point, you freak the fuck out. You go, I'm calling the cops right fucking now. I want my fucking baby. Where's my baby?

Where's my baby? Where's my fucking baby? Don't stop saying, where's my baby until the cops find your baby. I go out. I get in the car. I go to Bobby Billy's house. I go, you got the baby? No? Okay baby? Where's my fucking baby? Don't stop saying, where's my baby, until the cops find your baby. I go out. I get in the car. I go to Bobby Billy's house. I go, you got the baby? No?

Okay. I go to my mom's house. You got the baby? No? All right. And then I fucking freak out even worse. This is after I've already called the cops, though. Unbelievable.

I would freak the fuck out. Anybody would freak out if their baby was taken in the middle of the night from their house. Ridiculous. That's crazy. The kid didn't wander off with a sleeping bag behind him. And the guy that you have a restraining order on is giving you an explanation of where it's at. I don't know.

And you're just like, okay. She went back to sleep and he spends the night. Oh, boy. I'll stay, too. Yeah, no problem. She then attempts to contact. The next day, she tries to contact Bobby, Billy, and her mother, but was unable to even get a hold of them right away. Sleepy.

So she's sitting around the next day with a phone like, well, no answer. I don't know what's on TV. Like, what Price is Right's on. No, holy shit. What are we doing here? Patricia's mother then calls her and asks how Adam was doing, as grandmothers do, and Patricia tells her mother that she's fine. She says he's fine? He's fine. I guess she's

embarrassed to tell her mother that, I don't know, because I can't find him because he disappeared in the middle of the night. That's why I was calling you earlier. I'm a terrible mom and I've lost him. I've lost my son. And it's not even that, that that's the terrible part. The terrible part is I did nothing immediately to try to find him. That was the thing that was, you know, that's the part that gets me. And I'm even more terrible mom because I'm telling you he's fine and I have no fucking

idea if he's fine. I understood letting Mata in. I understood all of that up to that. It's fear and she's trying to make everything fine and she's trying to get through it. That at that point, you wake up, your it's fear and she's trying to make everything fine and she's trying to get through it that at that point you wake up your kids going you freak out you don't go back to sleep mind allow the guy with the restraining oh god never mind okay so she tells him she's fine uh he then uh she then calls bobby billy and uh bobby billy said that adam's not with me if i'm the father i'm like you don't know where you're asking if he's with me you better

fucking find him you know me i wander through there like once a month i don't know where the fuck he is i wouldn't take him think i'm taking him when i don't legally have to oh wait we have no actual agreement so i don't have to ever take him at all so uh yeah so now she calls monica her friend here and says do you know where my son is i don't know how she got involved in this situation yeah i grabbed him in the middle of the night she says of course i don't know where my son is? I don't know how she got involved in this situation. Yeah, I grabbed him in the middle of the night. This is ridiculous. She says of course I don't know where he is because I would have, why would I know where he is? I would have no idea where your fucking child is. Yeah.

At this point, Patricia thinks that Adam is with Bobby Billy. She thinks it's Bobby Billy. She's convinced herself that he has him. Yeah, because apparently lately Bobby Billy has been complaining about not having enough time with Adam, which I don't know how he could do that with Just Alright and You Pregnant, but he figured it out. He rearranged the words, made little combinations of it.

You All Right Pregnant? Yeah. So she thinks that it's Bobby Billy. She just assumes that I bet the father's got it. Still, I'd want to go over and physically see the child and make sure. I would tell him, I don't care if you have him. If you have him, great. Spend the night with him.

Put him in front of my face. Let me see him. Yeah. It's if you have him. If you have him, great. Spend the night with him. Put him in front of my face. Let me see him. Yeah. It's like a hostage video. Let me see him. So Patricia is then told by Raymond Mata not to call the police. At this point, she wants to call the police, though, to sort it out. He says, no, no, no, no.

Don't call the police. Because they can't do anything until after 24 hours anyway. How did he convince her of that? Well, that's like an old TV thing. Like, a missing person can't fucking, you know, can't look for a missing person until they're missing for 12. Yeah. A three-year-old's missing.

Right now. Everyone's looking for the three-year-old. Now. We're having now an Amber Alert going off. And this is right before that, too. The sirens and shit. This isn't 1973 where they're like, well, he'll turn up. This is 1999 where people would kidnap people.

This is post-everything. This is ridiculous. This is post-Columbine, for Christ's sake. Yeah, no doubt. You know what I mean? Literally, not that this has anything to do with that. But people give a shit about kids at this point. People are scared in the world for their children's safety is what I'm getting at.

But she listens, okay? She listens. Not only does she listen, she goes with him the next day on Saturday, March 13th. Now we got two days. She goes with Raymond Mata to Grand Island, Nebraska as like a little getaway. Leaves town. They don't return to Scotts Bluff till Sunday morning,

till the next fucking morning. So now she went off on a little vacation while her kid's missing. She got a three-day window now. Because, yeah, it's like, well, what about the 24 hours? You were away in another town after 24 hours. You didn't call the cops then either. Why are you not panicked?

What is going on? Oh, shit. How can you go relax anywhere? How can you do anything? Wow. So that night, Sunday night, Raymond asks Monica, his sister, to go to Cheyenne, Wyoming. Yeah. Okay.

That night, Sunday night, go to Cheyenne, Wyoming with Jesse Lopez, who is the father of Monica's son. Okay. This is a lot of baby daddies and things like that. So he says, look, why don't you, Monica and Jesse, you guys go to Cheyenne. Yeah. He asked them to meet somebody for him. Okay. So I need you guys to go to Cheyenne and meet this guy and pick something up for me and whatever.

So they went for some reason, and they leave. They leave at 11 p.m. Yeah, it's a good hour. I'm going to go drive to Cheyenne now through the plains. I've driven through like Wyoming and shit. You don't drive through there in the middle of the night. There's not much there, and if you break down, you're fucked. You're completely fucked. You're dead as shit there in the middle of the night. There's not much there. And if you break down, you're fucked. Completely fucked.

You're dead as shit. And you're in the mountains. There's shit up there. There's animals and stuff. Oh, everywhere. Oh, my God. There's a goddamn bison walking around or whatever. I don't even know what they are.

And they're on the fucking road. Yeah. Well, they have the fence. The whole interstate's fenced in Wyoming. That's nice. There's a big fence the entire length of the state. And against it, you see buffalo and cattle and horses and shit. Yeah.

Just hanging out right at the fence. You'd be hit. People, you'd never be able to drive through there. There'd be buffalo bouncing off 18-wheelers left and right. It'd be bedlam over there. Horrible. So they leave at 11 p.m. Monica is not able to locate the person that he asked her to meet in Cheyenne.

Yeah. So in the middle of the night, they go to Cheyenne, and they don't even meet this person meet this person. They get home at four thirty in the morning. Oh, my God. Somebody's paying for gas. That's a long trip round trip. They waited for the person. So now it's Monday, March 15th. She gets home. Monica finds that her sewer line is clogged. She's like, what the fuck is going on with my sewer line? It won't like the sewer lines clogged. It's backing up. What the hell is going on here? So March 15th, that Monday, Patricia talks to her sister and her sister comes over to Patricia's house. Raymond is there when her sister gets there. Patricia and Raymond are both there.

Patricia decides at this point to call the police and report Adam's disappearance. Sure. No shit. Yeah. Because now their sister's there, I feel like she feels less scared of Maude. Yeah. Where she's like, OK, I'm going to call it because he's safety in numbers. He's not going to kill both of us. I feel like she's saying, which I don't know how true that is, but he's not going to attack both. He's probably going to try to act cool if my sister's here because I don't know if he knows the sister very well or maybe she's older and he's scared of her.

Maybe you never know. Yes. I mean, she might be a little have a little more wherewithal than Patricia as far as how to deal with people. So, at this point, she wants to call the police, but Raymond insists that she not call the police until after he leaves. She said, quote, because how I knew he had a warrant for his arrest, just wait for me to – just wait until I leave to call. So, he's got warrants, too. That's the other thing. He's got warrants. He's restra other thing. He's got warrants. Restraining orders. Restraining orders.

And there's a missing baby, and he doesn't want to be attached to it at all. He doesn't want to be there when the cops get there. So 4 o'clock p.m. on Monday, the cops are finally notified that Adam's missing. My God. What the fuck? How do you get that far? Mind-boggling. Sweet Pete.

Wow. I'm blown away by that. I'm blown away by that. I'm blown away by this is... Oh, Jesus. How do you not give a shit about your kid that much? My kid is missing for 10 minutes and I'm losing it. What do you think the

cops felt when they heard that on the other end of the phone? He's been missing since when? How old is he? 13? 3? Like 13. He might have run away. Maybe he thought he was at his friend's house three is they you need to know where they are every second of the time suspicion they didn't just go all right all right and they just said never mind so police police go searching for adam obviously uh they go to monica's residence to speak to raymond mata because uh mata lives there

now but at first the uh they wouldn't answer the door. Monica said that Raymond told her not to answer the door because he's got warrants. And he's still there. I got warrants. But they did find, this will come into play later, they find later on a sealed garbage bag in the dumpster behind the residence that we'll talk about. When they did find the bag, and we'll find out how they found the bag and why they found the bag, they tore it open and found Adam's sleeping bag and the clothing he'd been wearing inside the bag.

Okay. That is not a good sign, by the way. Also, the bag also had trash that was from Monica's residence, including a towel and a boning knife that Monica did not remember throwing away. Uh-oh. Bad things are happening here. March 16th, next day, a search warrant is obtained for Monica's residence and executed. They had a first search, but the results of the search were suppressed by a district court.

So it's a weird thing. So we'll go with this here. Police suspect Raymond. Sure. He's a suspect. Yeah. His stories about his whereabouts are false, too. His alibis are not great when they just talk to him immediately here. Police suspect Raymond. He's a suspect. His stories about his whereabouts are false, too. His alibis are not great

when they just talk to him immediately here. While this is going on, a couple days after the disappearance, Raymond and Patricia are seen in Torrington, Wyoming, which this was the Sunday. Somehow they went through Wyoming to do something here. The Torrington law enforcement

officials denied a request by law enforcement to send body recovering divers to a small lake where the pair had been spotted. They said, well, they were in town that Sunday. We want to search your town and make sure there's no toddler body in it anywhere. They wouldn't do the divers. They wouldn't do that. So what they do is they call the FBI. They have a guy here named Ron

Rawalt. And Ron Rawalt is a badass kind of special. He's an FBI special agent. He comes in. He reviews the background of the individuals, their relationships, everything else. You name it. He's just the guy that's going to come in and figure this whole thing out

here. He makes a timeline to the whole thing. He finds some possible gang ties and modest things, too, that's in here. That has nothing to do with this, but he's just looking at people's shit here. There's Nebraska gangs? Apparently so. Jesus. Oh, shit. I remember the old HBO documentary.

They had them in Little Rock. Why not Nebraska? Before he even gets to Scotts Bluff, he's in North Platte. They call him on the phone. He asks the police officer, hey, by the way, the trash and anybody's, everybody involved, their trash, has that all been searched? And they said no. They were focused on looking for the body. And they said they were, they'd been up for two days looking for it. This is a small town police force, not equipped to look for a dead toddler and figure out a system or figure out a suspect and all this.

They had not thought of even searching the dumpsters here. But at that point, they go, and that's when they find the bag. It's like the first thing I think of. Yeah, find what they've thrown out. But they were just like searching for the body. They didn't even think. But I would look in the body for the dumpster for the body if I was looking for a body. Actually, it was garbage day, too.

So they had to call and stop the sanitation crew from picking anything up. Yeah, they were lucky because they said it would have been within an hour they would have dumped the dumpster here. Yeah. Ron Rawalt here says, quote, I was fresh and could offer secondary opinions. They were tired. I told them to get some sleep. It's easy to miss evidence in that condition.

Which makes sense. I always think of that when you see shows and stuff where homicide detectives are up for two days doing something. You're like, how are you making any sense of anything after two days? I can't. I tried when we were in L.A. I tried to make notes at night about small town murder. And the next morning it didn't make any sense because I'd been up for two days.

I just didn't make any sense. I didn't understand it. I had to redo my notes. It was terrible. Had to get back into that state to be able to understand what the fuck you wrote. I had no clue what was going on here. So while the warrant is executed at Monica's place, while they're searching everything, the police take Mata to the police station to talk to him a little bit here.

They entered. When they entered, they handcuffed him. Oh. When they entered the house just to see it was going on and who was there and whatever. They end up removing the handcuffs and they ask him to come to the police station to be interviewed. So he's interviewed by Robert Kinsey, who's a Scotts Bluff Police Department guy who I don't know how many homicide interrogations this guy takes place in.

Probably very few. Yeah. And also Ron Rawalt is sitting in there. Oh, that's great. I feel more comfortable with him in there. I feel like he has experience here. They say they asked him to come voluntarily. They repeatedly told him that he was not under arrest. They told him told him that they quote needed to interview him, but they didn't

tell him, you know, you're under arrest. You're under arrest. They said they needed a place to talk to him to do the interview and they couldn't do it at the house because the search warrant was being served. He's not under arrest. You don't have to come with us at all, but they would like you to, they would like us, you to come with me here. Also too, it's going to look really shitty if you don't go. If you say no. And that's how they made it look. Like, look, we just really need to talk to you.

He's not given Miranda warnings at the time at all here. Any subsequent time, he's not given Miranda warnings at any point in this day here. Rawalt says once they got to the police station, the interview room door was left unlocked. They told Mata that the door is unlocked. He's free to leave at any time. He's not trapped in here. They questioned him regarding the timeline, the sequence of events, the whole deal. They asked Mata what they thought might have happened to Adam.

He became seriously evasive about anything that has to do with Adam. At one point, he said, quote, I don't want to answer no more questions. Wow. So he got very, very evasive. They continued to question him, though, even after he said he didn't, but there's no Miranda, so there's no right to invoke because

they haven't given you the right yet, even though they probably should have. Yes, but... Otherwise we're going to keep asking questions. Yeah, this is his gray. Last week we had a gray area in the Miranda, and we have it again this week. this is an even grayer area here. They continue to question him. And he said specifically, Hey man, I will plead the fifth right now, man. That's what he says. So they kept questioning him more anyway, because he never said I'm leaving or I want a

lawyer. At the end of the interview, they ask him to take his boots off. The exact words were Rawalt told him to, quote, go ahead and take off those boots and asked if he could make a call for someone, asked if Mata could, if he could make a call for Mata for someone to come pick him up. So they take his boots. Mata calls for a ride. He had no, they say that he had, Mata had no problem with the request for his boots and immediately took them off and gave them to the officer. So that didn't make a big deal out of it. That's some gangster-ass shakedown. It is, man. Says boots are those.

Yeah, he said get them boots off. But yeah, it was like a ghetto robbery or something. Give me them Jordans and they pull them off his feet. Give me those Timberlands, boy. So they do a little testing on the boots and they find Adam's blood on the boots. Really? That's a pretty damning piece of evidence here. Raymond's mother, Yanez Cruz, picked him up from the police station, dropped him off at a friend's house and went with Monica to retrieve some clothes for Monica from the house.

Now, the home is being searched and the police ask Monica to remove a dog from the residence because there's a dog there. Monica and the mother, Cruz, took the dog and also picked up Raymond from the friend's house here. His mother said that they were going to a nearby town and Mata was talking to the dog, being nice to it and saying that it was being well taken care of and that it was, you know, the dog's my friend and I've been taking care of the dog and I've been feeding it and he's just like dicking around with the dog, petting the dog in the backseat or whatever. Strange, weird behavior.

The next day after they asked that the dog be removed, Rewalt spoke to Monica and asked and said that the police had decided to X-ray the dog and that the dog might be euthanized. Monica said that the dog was at her mom's house. Monica said to Rewalt, said, quote, go ahead and take the dog, check the dog, and then I don't want the dog back. What? She's like, I don't even want the dog. I'm confused. Why do we need to x-ray it?

Well, we'll see in a second here. So police- We need to x-ray it? It may need to be euthanized. Yeah, well, from the x-ray here. So police took the dog to be x-rayed, and a bone was seen in the digestive tract of the dog. It was determined that the only way to retrieve the bone was to euthanize the dog. That's why they did it.

Now let's talk about the results of the search, okay? The results of the search, they found, police find, in Monica's basement where Mata lives, where Raymond lives, they find human remains. That is not great. In the ceiling, in the acoustic ceiling tiles, wrapped in plastic and duct tape, they find a crushed human skull. Wow. A dismembered, crushed, packaged human skull in the ceiling. In the ceiling, okay. Wow. We're in next, this is next level shit.

There is a head that's been removed from somebody of some kind and is in the and mod has got it and wrapped up and duct tape. He's saving it for a package like he's fucking saving it for later. It's this is weird as shit. So not only that, and we'll find out how the skull was fractured in several places by blunt force trauma that occurred right at the time of death. They said the head had been severed from the body by a sharp object at or near the time of death. Let's hope after. Yeah. No evidence of strangulation could be found, although strangulation, smothering and blunt force trauma can't be ruled out as causes of death because you never know.

This is a goddamn head is off the body. But they don't think so right now. Bad, right? Yeah. It gets worse. It gets way worse. That was bad. This is worse.

Let's buckle up, everybody, because this is rough. In the kitchen refrigerator of Monica's house- What? They find a foil-wrapped package of human flesh. Wow. Human flesh wrapped in foil- Sitting in her fridge. In the fucking refrigerator.

And she had no idea. No idea. Okay. Or maybe she did. Yeah. Or maybe that's why she went to cheyenne yeah it was i need you to get out of the house uh or that was an excuse i don't know what the deal is but they find a foil wrap package of human shit flesh in a

refrigerator this is crazy after they find found a head yeah in the ceiling this is nuts and for for a place like this even milwaukee was shocked by Dahmer. They're not dicks, but this is worse, I think, when we find out why. Mata's fingerprint is found on the foil. So Raymond's fingerprint is found on the foil. That's not great. If your fingerprint's on a package of human flesh, that's a problem. Sorry. And there's a

head right above where you sleep? Issue. Some red flags. We have a couple of questions we want to get cleared up with you real quick about that. And we'd like to tell you about this guy Miranda real quick and some rights and warnings. Let's talk about him. Human remains were also found. I feel so bad saying human remains because we know

it's an atom. It's a child and it's a person with a name. Let's keep it clinical because it's much easier to deal with. Human remains were found on a toilet plunger that was also found to be clogging the sewer line of the residence. Worse, Jimmy. It gets worse.

Okay. Human flesh, both cooked and uncooked, were found in the dog food bowl and in the bag of dog food. Sweet fucking Pete. In the dog food bowl. He put it in the bag of dog food sweet fucking pete in the dog food bowl put it in the bag too in the bag for later he's been feeding this dog that's why he was saying i've been feeding it we're best friends we take care of that sweet that's he was in christ that's how sick this fucking guy is is he had to do that in front of them he had to he had to like have his little secret yeah that oh they don't know i'm saying that i fed you a child to this fucking dog that's how sick this motherfucker

is my christ first of all what else is this guy done yeah no doubt this is not your first thing this is not your first kill you don't kill a child if that's the highest risk person you could kill a child of the of a known person that knows you of a house you were at and then dismember the fucking body if this is a first kill he is next level that's unbelievable he's next level serial killers yeah if that is his first that is unprecedented crazy for a first fucking kill even btk and the most horrible serial killers their first kill is awkward and And it's always an animal. Well, I'm sure he's killed tons of those.

Oh, for sure. Yeah, we've discussed that. So, wow. Also, human bone fragments were recovered from the dog's digestive tract. Human bone fragments. All of the remains recovered were identified by DNA as Adam's remains. Also, they did find, like we said, Adams blood on the boots. No blood was found on Adams clothing or the sheets of Adams bed at Patricia's house.

So this did not happen over there. Rewalt, the FBI longtime career special agent FBI guy, said, quote, I've never seen anything like it. It is one of the worst crimes I've seen in my career. Fucking no shit. He called. He called in. He doesn't even have to say that no we know that i read this and i'm like i how have i never heard about this how have you never heard about this this guy's feeding a three-year-old a fucking dog and we never heard about this shit like how is this not because it's not a dick it's not as if it was March 99. Yeah. If he had the kids dick in the fridge, they would have made a huge deal.

I would have been sexual. It's just as fucking bad. It's just as bad. I'm disgusted right now by that. So, yeah, he calls in a he calls in. Calls in a special of the nation's leading pathologist at the time, Richard Rodriguez, who he's the guy who concludes that it

was a blow to the head who killed that killed him. So they're trying to narrow it down. Now, in court, he is charged with first degree murder, felony murder and kidnapping. Motherfuck. Obviously. Yeah. I wish there was an extra charge for just being the most repulsive piece of shit ever. General piece of garbage.

It's so weird. First degree general piece of garbage. Yeah. First degree fuckery. So the prosecuting attorney is a guy named Doug Warner who is opposed to the death penalty, but he makes an exception in this case. He's opposed to the death penalty. He's opposed it for years, and he said, this fucking guy, I will kill him myself. I swear to Christ, just put him in the road.

I'll back my car over him. I'm done with this asshole. I'll beat him with something soft until he bleeds out. Give me that gavel. I'll go over there and crack his fucking skull open. No problem. So, yeah, this is unreal. So that I'm glad he did because you know what?

Like we've said many times, we're not big for the death penalty. And people on Twitter are like, hey, you guys have softened up on it. You seem to like it now. Nope. Some people we just want to die. For sure. I just don't. I'm not sure about the way it should happen because i'm not a fucking constitutional scholar i really

enjoy them to not breathe but this fucking guy i want someone to kill him i don't care if a guy in prison stabs him i'm like great give that guy a pardon for whatever the fuck he did unless it was also feeding a three-year-old dog and then you just go all right all right yeah so uh man uh So, man, the court determines because the first thing they did was try to suppress his statements or anything like that because of no Miranda. The court determined that the interrogation was not custodial. They said that the they had a transcript of everything and that he was repeatedly informed that he was free to leave. They kept saying, you don't want to answer questions. You walk out right now. Yeah.

Take off right now. However, look good. Yeah. Yeah. He said, however, the court also said, though, that, you know, just him not answering a question is not his trying to stop the interview. That's just he didn't want to answer a question. But they said the tone of the questioning changed and became much more accusatory. And then he said, I'll plead the fifth right now.

That's where it got to be a real gray area. At that point, the court suppresses the statements made by Mata after that. Because they said at that point he was no longer submitting to questioning, but you were still badgering him. So if you had Mirandized him, you could do that because then he can call for a lawyer and until the lawyer walks in the room, you can just keep bothering him. But that evidence fucking who gives a shit anyway when you've got a thumbprint on foil that

has a child. His fucking head is above your bed. His head's above your bed. How'd that get there? There's a head. Fuck the interrogation and the things we asked you there. Put him on the stand and asked him, so how'd a head get above your bed? Where's your head? Did somebody put that there? How'd you do that? Somebody else shoved that up there and then

put your thumbprint on there. How'd your thumbprint get on what's left of a kid inside foil in your fridge? And how did that kid get inside your best friend? Yeah, your buddy. Your best friend, like you said here. That you've been feeding. Now, Raymond argues on that, and he'll argue later on,

that the officers that handcuffed him, that amounted to a functional arrest. And then, you know, it an interrogation and part of anything. Imada came to the police station where he was immediately informed he wasn't under arrest, is what the court says. So they allow most of it. Now, at the trial, the forensic pathologist shows slides of child's bone fragments and flesh found in the refrigerator, a skillet that it was cooked in.

And a dog dish and the sewer lines. These slides are pretty damning, I would say, to a jury. They're going to look at that and go, oh, that doesn't look good. In a town that small? They've never even heard of this. Forget seeing it. And when there's a three-year-old dead, you want to find out what the fuck happened. Ten minutes ago.

What happened? Right now, how did this work out hey everybody just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about an amazing sponsor i love this one the great courses plus like so many of you we're always trying to explore new interests feed our curiosity listen to what you're listening to try to learn more try to learn about a town and learn about a murder that's what we we're doing. That's what you can do here. They have unlimited video access to some of the world's greatest professors. We're big fans of the Grape Courses Plus. They have everything. You can learn about everything from physics to photography,

psychology, history, science, cooking. You can watch the videos wherever you want from a TV like I do. You can do a laptop, a phone, a tablet, anything. And what they do, they have that cool thing where if you start on your phone, you can then pick it up on your tablet later on. It's so cool. It really is. Or you can stream the audio to listen along with the Great Courses Plus app. What you learn is amazing. I'm interested in information, obviously, as we're doing. Jimmy is too. We cannot recommend their course, Forensic History, Crimes, Frauds, and Scandals enough. That one, and Jack the Ripper is incredible too.

That's so cool. There's stuff, it's taught by a professor. It's not like a comedian or anything like that. So it's really great information. It's tremendous. They take it very serious. You feel like you've learned something. I felt like I was smarter when I was done with it.

I really did. And I'm addicted to these great courses now. Like for instance, I learned, did you know that you only need five to 10 skin cells to generate a DNA profile? What? Skin cells. I didn't know that. I just loved everything about it because they got into the technical aspects of the, because you just hear like, oh, DNA match. You don't know what that means. And this, this, they told you what it means and made it so interesting. And it's just such a great thing to watch. If you have any interest in information whatsoever, if you enjoy learning, this is for you. But it's not good enough that we like The Great Courses Plus.

We want you to experience The Great Courses Plus. So they're giving our listeners a full month to enjoy all of their lectures for free. But you need to go sign up through the special URL. Through the special URL, thegreatcoursesplus.com slash STM. That is the one. Start your free month today. And that free month gets you unlimited access to this. Start your free month today.

Sign up now at thegreatcoursesplus.com slash STM. That's thegreatcoursesplus.com slash STM. You will not be sorry. And now back to the show. You will not be sorry. And now back to the show. Raymond files a motion to not be restrained during the trial, not be shackled or anything like that. His counsel says that if he's restrained, the restraint should be not visible to the jury.

Like it should be down below. The court says that his arms and wrists and hands could be free, but his legs would be restrained with ankle bracelets and he would be seated in the court before the jury came in. That's the deal they made. The court did conclude that the restraints should not be visible to the jury. And they worked out that they were going to have skirting placed around the table. Like, they're

really doing this to hide his feet. Like, that matters. You found flesh in the fridge with your thumbprint on it you could be in a goddamn hannibal lecter you know thing and people would you're just as guilty as if you're that or if you're in a boy scout uniform just as guilty you fucking asshole so he wants to be in there and just like a suit with just yeah he just wants to be hanging out waving at people yeah going to see the ice cream man he's got a lot of things to do jimmy how's about when how's about when you've got to go to the bathroom and you've got to get up to go?

And, like, are they going to take the jury out for you to walk out now? So many fucking – the logistics of that are stupid. And it turns out during the jury process, the jury selection process, the record says that Mata was actually brought into the courtroom after the jury panel was present. And he had to walk 15 to 23 feet through the courtroom shackled and they could have seen him at the time. They did note that the shackles were visible, but they weren't tight and did not impede his walking, basically. It didn't make him look like he was shuffling along. A perp walk.

Exactly. During the trial, Raymond's defense team says, well, Adam must have been killed at Patricia's. I don't know what happened. I mean, obviously, she killed him. I don't trust that Bobby Billy as far as I can throw him, number one. I don't blame him for that. You don't trust a guy named Bobby Billy. So, you know, it couldn't have been me.

But I will admit, though, that I did try to dispose of the body. That's a fact. You can't get out of that. They found human remains everywhere. You can't just say, I don't know anything about it. I came home and there was a head above my, you know, in my room. So he says he doesn't deny that. The prosecutor describes, obviously, the killing of Adam as, quote, butchering for the jury, which is.

Fuck yes. Yeah. And describes the great lengths that Mata went to to to keep the remains hidden and to keep them there, even with the sewer and the dog. He said that Raymond did this as a way to control Patricia. He said he planned out the murder because Bobby Billy was coming back into Patricia's life, and he felt like that was because of the kid. So if the kid wasn't there, then they have no reason to be together. I get to do it. I got Patricia.

And no kid. And no Bobby Billy. Fucking everybody's happy. That's his, that's, whoa, that's. That's an insane thought. So I'll feed a child to a dog. Right. Not go meet somebody else.

That'll get us together. Holy shit. If anybody needed fucking online dating, it's this guy. Oh, boy. I'm not saying no. He shouldn't be online dating. A guy in his level of loneliness. Holy shit terrible that would be terrible i don't want my daughter meeting this i don't want anybody meeting this guy anybody at all except a guy in prison with a big knife that's about the only thing a big boning knife yeah exactly perfect the prosecutor

said quote we have a situation where a child was butchered over a period of time. This wasn't a spur of the moment decision. It was an act of revenge. I would agree with that. Raymond says he's not to blame. And they say all of his other problems. It's just his poor upbringing. It's not his fault. His lawyers are like, you know, he's had a tough time.

Everyone who's had a tough time kills three-year-olds, feeds them dogs, chops their heads off, puts them above their bed. Everyone does that, right? I had a pretty fucked childhood. Never even once thought about killing a three-year-old. How many times have you taken a boning knife and removed a toddler's head? Probably none. I've learned to punch my kid. Jesus fucking Christ, man.

But I didn't do it. This is so angry. No, we've all wanted to punch our kid. You little son of a bitch. But then you walk away. This is the 50s. In the 50s, you would have just socked him right in the mouth. Knock him the fuck out.

People would have said, that's a good dad. Good parent. He deserved it. He was asking for it. People would have said, that's a good dad. Good parent. He deserved it. He was asking for it. I don't think either one of those things are right, though. I think you should be punching your kid either. So anyway, not a huge long deliberation, as you might imagine here. Jerry finds him guilty on all counts.

They were asking for more counts they could find him guilty on. Can we find him guilty of anything else? How about that fuckery charge? Anything. Did he do espionage? Did he spy? We'll put a firing squad right now with this asshole. So, wow.

Raymond does not make a public statement during the hearing, but he does present a letter to the panel. There's a panel that's going to decide his fate in sentencing, a three-judge panel. Okay, judges. He delivers a letter, says he didn't murder Adam Gomez, but he did assist in the disposal of the body. He said it was part of a, quote, desperate attempt to dispose of Adam's body. I panicked and did some things that are unexplainable. What I did was shameful and wrong.

I bet $5 million he didn't write that, by the way. By the way, unexplainable is not even, that word is so just misplaced there. I would say. That's an unbelievably callous word to use in that situation. What a horrible statement. Read that statement one more time and let's unpack that. Let's get the, well, we have the end of it still to do. Oh, Jesus.

Quote, I don't know what happened, but the fact is Patricia killed Adam. So now not only is he – now he's openly blaming a grieving mother whose baby he killed. Yeah, he said, I panicked and did some things that are unexplainable. I tried to dismember and dispose of a young child's body. I took a boning knife and beheaded a child and then chopped that child into the smallest pieces I could get him into. Flushed him down a toilet, cooked some, fed some to a dog, put some in a fridge for later, mind you. For the dog. Unexplainable. That's the word you're using?

When I was five, I was hanging out with this kid. And it was my mother's, my mother had a real white trash friend of hers. And the kid was like a little dirty, white trashy kid. He was like a year younger than me. He was a hyperactive asshole. And he was running around and he was just doing shit, like kicking things and just doing like, and I was just watching him because I'm pretty calm. I'm just like, I've always been this calm and I'm just watching him.

And he goes over to a board. There's a board on the ground with a big nail sticking through it, just sticking up. And he goes, check this out and stomps on it with his foot. So much so that the nail came out the top of his shoe. Okay. Right through. Unexplainable. That's unexplainable.

That's unexplainable. I've never been able to, I thought about this for 35 years. I've never been able to explain this. This is not unexplained. That's unexplainable. What the fuck been able to. I thought about this for 35 years. I've never been able to explain this. This is not unexplained. That's unexplainable. What the fuck were you thinking? I don't know. It's unexplainable.

I was passed out under a table in my friend's living room after drinking. They took my keys from me and hid them, but I knew there was a spare key in my truck. I took a rock, broke my window, found my spare key, drove the fuck home. Unexplainable. That's unexplainable. Yeah, that's unexplainable. I don't know why I did that. I nobody unexplainable unexplainable so Mata's mother this is not an explainer this is very explainable you're an asshole and a

scumbag and a piece of shit yes so his mother crewman I'm is Cruz here young is Cruz just she testifies and then youifies for the mitigating, tries to give mitigating circumstances in the sentencing. She described her life as, quote, hell with her husband. She said he'd been beating her, started beating her after three years of marriage. She beat the shit out of the kids. He beat the shit out of Raymond. He beat the shit out of Monica. They moved 12 times. The family moved 12

times because the husband would find a job and then he'd get drunk and get fired so they'd have to move again. Why she stayed with him? Unexplainable. That's unexplainable. That's unexplainable. I don't know in the 50s in Nebraska, the 60s in Nebraska. Actually it was the 70s

so whatever. Anyway. Unexplainable. Unexplainable. She said that her family moved so often they never unpacked. She's crying, streaming tears down her... There's a dead kid. I don't care about this guy's tough upbringing. She said the beatings she received at the hands of her

husband were horrible, and one time the kids were present, huddled around her, and the senior Yamada's, loaded a pistol and cocked it and said he was going to shoot her while the kids were there. Wow. And, yeah, she said, obviously she was scared. She said the beatings were so regular that one day she saw Raymond pretending to be like her father and act like, pretending to be like his father and act like he was drinking a beer and then saying it was time to beat his wife and begin hitting his older sister. That's him mimicking his father.

You break your shit down to the minimum. If your dad's a truck driver, you'll pretend to steer and shift and shit like that. That's what your dad does. He's a drunk and a family beater. That's his profession. Now he's going to pretend to beat his wife. Now it's time to beat his wife. This is ridiculous.

His mother then says, quote, I pray to God that he doesn't get the electric chair. I know he doesn't deserve the death penalty. Like they say, two wrongs don't make a right. I feel bad about what happened to Adam, but killing my son won't bring him back. Okay. No. Miss Mata. It's a good start. Can't hurt. That's the way I'm looking at it. It Adam, but killing my son won't bring him back. Okay. No. Miss Mata, it's a good start.

Can't hurt. That's the way I'm looking at it. It's not going to hurt anything. Miss Mata, tell me again that part in that story where a three-year-old was decapitated and chopped into fucking tiny pieces. Anybody out there in listening land think we need this guy anymore? I'm not even saying, like, you don't have to believe in the death penalty or anything like that. Anybody would be

upset if he just dematerialized. Like, fucking gone. Poof. He just became a piece of the matrix and just went away. Yeah, so in 2000, June of 2000, they have a three-judge panel, and they sentence him, should we do it now?

You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty in the electric chair. Wow. You're going to Yes. You, sir, may fuck off. Death penalty in the electric chair. Wow. You're going to the electric chair, mister. Is that right? First degree premeditated serious fucking hardcore murder. Yeah.

Yeah. Patricia said that she obviously denied that she had anything to do with the murder of her son. She said. I don't I don't fucking not believe her. Yeah. And she said she feels a horrible crippling guilt over allowing him into the home that night she said she'll never get over it she said quote i'll blame myself for the rest of my life as any mother would uh completely understandable

a lot of mistakes that night i would say following three days and he made way more holy shit boy and that's the other thing too he went oh man he he saw, he was with her after he did that. Yeah. And acting like, I don't know where your kid is. Where's your kid? Like, whoa, that is fucking next level crazy. Sending people out of the house so that he can be alone with the body to do what he needs to do. He had to say, he's got an 85 IQ, yet he's setting up all these different things and people, you go over here so I can cut up the body.

Wow. So he appeals, obviously, September 2003. He has several points of appeal here. We'll go through them quickly because he has like 10 of them. Number one, the court failed to suppress all of his statements made during his interrogation. Number two, they failed to suppress the evidence from his boots because he says they shouldn't have taken his boots. They just asked for them and he gave them to them.

That's perfectly fine. They failed to suppress the examination of the dog. He says the dog was taken illegally and it shouldn't have been an examination because there were some questions as to the ownership of the dog. Okay. It's got kid parts in it. I don't care whose fucking dog it is. I don't care.

I like dogs. At this point, there's a child inside of it. Don't care anymore. Open the dog. Remember in Snatch? I don of it. Don't care anymore. Open the dog. Snatch? I don't care. 4-2 Tony. Open the dog.

Open the dog up now. What do you mean open dog? Open it. So they also forced him to wear the shackles at trial. That's the deal here. They overruled his motions to dismiss the charges of felony murder and kidnapping, although there was, he said there was insufficient evidence of those as a matter of law of the kidnapping and of the premeditation or whatever. And he also says, and with that, that the court failed to instruct the jury on the essential

elements of kidnapping and felony murder. I think they just looked and said, well, his mother didn't say you could have him and then you had him. So that's kidnapping. Well, it's just a logical conclusion at that point. You took a kid and napped him. So there you go. You got him now and napped him. So there you go. You got him now.

It's a ridiculous word, kidnap. Kidnap. It really is. It should be kidnap. I would say, yeah, because a kidnap sounds great. Oh, I wish my kid would nap. It's the best three hours of the day. Kidnapping is my favorite.

When my kid is kidnapping, fucking A, man. I can't get enough kidnapping. Yeah. I can't get enough kidnapping. Yeah. Also, he's saying there's an error in the imposition of the death penalty from a case from 2002. So it's a new precedent from Arizona, actually. Really? Yeah.

He's also saying that the Nebraska death penalty statutes are unconstitutional. They fail to provide adequate direction to the sentencers so as to avoid the arbitrary and capricious application of death in violation of the 8th and 14th Amendments of the U.S. Constitution. Holy shit. That's a lot. That's a lot. He's just saying that it's cruel, unusual punishment, I believe is what he's getting at. I believe that's what he's getting at.

He said that the, this is amazing, the aggravating circumstance for his murder was, quote, exceptional depravity. And he says that's, quote, unconstitutionally vague. Your ass. That's that's exactly the perfect way to describe it. Exceptional depravity. That's actually polite. That's actually fucking polite.

It should be the holy shit insects crawling out of this guy's ears because he's got fucking hives and nets in his brain and not brain matter. That's what they should have said. What the fuck, man? Anytime you put the word depravity in it, that's as specific as it gets. It's not vague. There's nothing that can't lead you any other way other than horrific crime. Well, listen to this argument of it. The balls on this.

Other than horrific crime. Well, listen to this argument of it. The balls on this. He says that that's not, it's unconstitutionally vague and that the act of dismembering Adam's body were not, quote, at or near the time of death as required to be an aggravator. He says, I waited until he was dead a while. All right. All right. I waited until he was dead a while.

Then I cut his head off. That's too much. Fine. Imagine going in the court and saying that. Imagine that's your fucking, that's your argument. It's ridiculous. That is your argument to not die. To stay in prison for the rest of your life instead of die.

Whoa. Is you waited a while? Yeah, this is, Jesus Christ. Also, he's saying judicial electrocution is unconstitutional under the U.S. and Nebraska constitutions. And the sentence, the last one is the sentence of death was excessive and disproportionate under the facts of the case. What part was? Yes, it is. It is disproportionate.

Proportionate would have been a guy comes out and just fucking cut your head off with a broadsword while you're at the defense table. That's proportionate. No, proportionate. Proportionate. Proportionate would be going back in time and finding him when he was three and doing the exact same fucking thing to him. That's something. That's proportionate.

Something's proportionate. This is fine. You're actually getting the better end of this. They're being kind. Because you lived for 28 fucking years before you get to die. That's what I'm, they're being kind right now. The decisions on the appeal, the Miranda deal here, he said that basically what they said is they couldn't have not honored his rights because there was no rights given. So at that point, he was just they were just a couple of guys sitting there like it didn't.

That's there's no there was no it wasn't. They called it absent custodial interrogation. So they were absent of custodial interrogation. So his his ambiguous answers or his unwillingness to answer questions were not an evocation of his rights, basically. They say that that argument is without merit. Take a hike on that one. The boots. He said that his consent wasn't voluntary.

They say that the argument is without merit since they just asked him for him and he gave them to him. They didn't say, as the police, we get to take your boots now as a matter of law. They just said, hey, let me get those boots. And he was like, all right. You can go out on the street. If I say, Jimmy, let me get those shoes. You just gave me your shoes. How is that something?

How about no? How about no? All the arguments that he's making are the ones that they put him as the murderer. That's all that's left. That's the thing. That's what I mean. None of these are saying. I didn't give you my boots with that kid's blood on it.

That's not fair. None of these are saying that I wasn't there. I have an alibi. None of these are saying. I didn't give you my boots with that kid's blood on it. That's not fair. None of these, yeah. None of these are saying that, you know, I wasn't there. I have an alibi. None of that shit at all. It's just. It's not fair. All the things that make me guilty. He literally said it's not that bad to cut a toddler's head off.

Truly. That's what he's doing. That's not excessive. What a dick. Next is the dog. They tried to say that they were uncertain whether the dog belonged to Monica or her son. And that they had learned later that the dog belonged to Monica's son. I guess Mata had given the dog to her son, apparently.

And that Mata would still feed the dog, quote, now and then, but really didn't pay much attention to it. Because it was the son's dog. Until it had a baby in its stomach. Yeah, it's true. Until it had a poor baby in its stomach. Yeah, it's true. Until it had a poor child in its stomach. So what they're arguing is that it was at Monica's residence, which he shared. So there was a reasonable expectation of privacy in the contents of the residence is what they're saying, which doesn't goddamn matter. They removed the dog from the residence.

That was at the direction of law enforcement. So he's trying to make an argument here. Also at the direction of Monica who said, I don't want the dog. I don't give a shit about that. Basically, the court just says, we don't care whose fucking dog it was. It had a kid inside of it take a hike. It doesn't matter. It's dead anyway now.

The shackles. The shackle thing. Being shackled in court. What they say is, this is interesting. Their decision on the shackles is exactly what a reasonable person would say. They said, quote, moreover, bluntly stated, given the evidence at trial, it is difficult to imagine how seeing Mata in leg restraints would have led the jury to believe Mata more likely to be guilty. Even had the jury believed in Mata's theory of the case, the defense conceded that Mata participated in the dismemberment of the body of a three-year-old child and fed that child's remains to a dog. Mata was charged with the murder of that same child.

Viewed objectively, given the nature of the charges and Mata's uncontested actions, it could not have surprised the jury that Mata was wearing unobtrusive leg restraints. No shit. He said he cut a kid's head off. The leg restraints are 50th thing they're going to notice about him. Here's something. If I'm in a jury box and a guy with zero restraints is admitting to

dismembering a fucking three-year-old, I don't feel safe. Can we put him in restraints, please? Tie him to the fucking floor, please. All right. All right. We will tie him. We will tie him to the fucking floor, please. All right. All right. All right. So we will tie him. We will tie him up. So he tries to argue the definition of kidnapping.

I'd want him on a fucking leash. Like, I want something around his neck tied to the fucking ceiling. That's crazy. Yeah. Well, he tries. How does he think that that doesn't. This guy's. It's mind boggling.

His lawyer's an asshole. Unexplainable. This is unexplainable. This is very much unexplainable. His fucking arguments are unexplainable. Unexplainable. He tries to argue the kidnapping statute by saying that basically a person committing kidnapping, if he abducts another or having abducted another, continues to restrain him with intent to do the following.

So he has to want to do one of the following. Hold him for reward or ransom. Use him as a shield or hostage. Terrorize him or a third person. Commit a felony. Interfere with the performance of any government or political function. Except, and then there's a few exceptions. Doesn't matter because what they end up saying is the judge says, well, the evidence shows that Adams's remains, clothing, and sleeping bag and blanket were all found

in your residence, so therefore, you probably took them to your house. The mother didn't say you could take them to your house. Therefore, you kidnapped them, asshole. That is a felony. That's a felony, and that's not a good one, too. Double jeopardy. He's arguing about the, this is very technical

legal shit. We won't even get into this, but he's arguing double jeopardy in the first degree premeditated murder and kidnapping. He's saying that they're the same offense even though they're not. So it's a stupid one he just threw in there to have an extra number I think.

Just an extra subject. He didn't like odd or even numbers. Whichever without that it made it. Then there's also the death penalty issues with the death penalty. There's the constitutionality of the whole deal here. What they end up doing, because I said there's a 2002 decision. Here's what the instant case. For example, we have held that the use of the defendant's prior convictions to enhance

the defendant's sentence absent proof in the record that the prior convictions were obtained at a time when the defendant was represented by counsel or knowingly waived such right and plain error. What they're basically saying here is they didn't do a couple of things right, and you can take apart the legalities of that. But the bottom line is, quote, consequently, we must vacate Mata's death sentence due to reversible error in the sentencing proceedings and remand the cause to the district court for resentencing.

He was sentenced by a three-judge panel. In 2002, the ruling said they must be – you can only be convicted or sent to death by a jury, not a judge panel. We had this in a case a few times ago. So everything before that comes up for appeal and they vacate and they have to redo it again. So they redo the whole thing. They affirm his convictions for first-degree premeditated murder and kidnapping and affirm the life sentence imposed for the kidnapping.

However, the death sentence is vacated. And what they'll have to do now is they'll have to redo it here. So they do a redo of the whole thing. January 2005, they reconvict him of first-degree murder just to get it all out on the table clean. The whole time they're just trying to do the he's not to blame his poor upbringing, blah, blah, blah, that whole thing. Quote, the father was a drunk who moved his family around. There's no stability. That should be a mitigating circumstance.

The mother comes back again and says, you know, he doesn't deserve the death penalty. Adam's mother, Patricia, is there, too. Patricia Gomez tells the court that she supports the execution. She says, quote, he doesn't look remorseful and I feel no remorse for him. Death is what he deserves. Fair enough. It was determined that what they said is they don't care how bad his childhood was. That had nothing to do with killing a goddamn baby because you wanted to control a lady

from not screwing around with her ex-boyfriend. That's not OK. They acknowledge that he may have an IQ of 85 and extensive drug history and alcohol and a bad family and that the death sentence will have a profound effect on his family. They said the judge said, quote, there's no doubt that any any sentence Raymond receives will profoundly affect his family. However, those those effects on the family are not the fault of the sentence, but are

the fault of Raymond's actions. No shit. Blame him if you're upset about it. They have to prove the aggravating circumstance for the death penalty. And this judge says, quote, it is that aggravating circumstance that the panel of judges consider as establishing and reaching its decision in this case. The facts in this case show an abduction of Adam, killing him, gratuitous violence, mutilation, relishing the crime, and a plan to make a point on Patricia by all of those acts.

Yeah, exactly. No doubt. And they also said, well, he's been doing really well in prison, so he's a good guy. He said, quote, the fact that Raymond may adapt well to prison life, because he's a fucking criminal, is no reason to withhold a death sentence. He'll do fine out of prison, too, when he's dead. Jeffrey Dahmer was cleaning shit. He was mopping.

He says the death penalty is imposed because of what he did to Adam. The depravity shown from these facts stands out and sets this case apart from the others. It shows a mind so bereft of redemption that justice demands a sentence of death. God, I love that word. That is fucking awesome. That's a, you serve me. Fuck off. That is great here.

Bereft is a fantastic word. Oh, it is. It is. So he is resentenced to me. Fuck off. That is great here. Bereft is a fantastic word. Oh, it is. It is. So he is resentenced to death. Fuck off again. He's being sentenced to death. They're escorting him out of the jail, and Bobby Billy is there. And Bobby Billy got to yell at him.

What did he say? Bobby Billy said, you got what you deserved. And Mata said, maybe, and kept walking. Really? That's all he said. He said, maybe? He went, maybe. He learned a new word. That's all he said. He said, maybe? He went, maybe. He learned a new word.

That's it. That's how great he's doing in prison. You know you expect him to say, all right. But Bobby Billy learned a few new words. You got what you deserve. That's way more than all right. That's impressive. Well, he knew you, and you is used twice in that sentence.

He knew you from you pregnant. So he had that. But he had to learn deserve. That's a tough one. I always enjoy when somebody's dumber than me. It's great, isn't it? I love it, too. Because I'm so stupid.

So he has. It's documented that he's dumb. Oh, he's super dumb. Yeah. It comes out in court. They're like, he's so stupid, you shouldn't kill him. They're using it as a fucking last ditch ever to save his life. Unreal, man.

So he's appealing again. Yeah, he is appealing on the he's appealing, saying that talking about the reliance on the electric chair and that sort of thing, because that is Nebraska's only way of execution is the electric chair at this point in time. So February 8th, 2008, they make a decision. They talk about how lethal injection is administered in 35 of 36 states that execute condemned prisoners, Nebraska being the only exception.

The only one. The only one. The judge says, quote, it is the hallmark of a civilized society that we punish cruelty without practicing it. The evidence shows that electrocution inflicts intense pain and agonizing suffering. Therefore, electrocution as a method of execution is cruel and unusual punishment. They strike down the electric chair in Nebraska.

So at that point, they have no way to kill anybody. I can think of a few ways. I can come up with some ideas. I'm very creative. Yeah, let's get some medieval shit going with this guy here. So it's a six to one decision here, knocking down, striking down the electric chair. It is called, quote, has proven itself to be a dinosaur more befitting of the laboratory of Baron Frankenstein than the death chamber of state prisons.

Wow. I can't disagree with that. That's a really crazy way to fucking do it. That's a pretty intense way to describe it, though. It is. Listen, Bundy went out that way, and seeing his body, I don't disagree. But there are, I don't know, man. It says something about us at that point, I think.

You might be right. When we let other people do it. If we let the mother go and stick like a frayed cord up his ass and electrocute him that way, I don't think anyone's got a problem with that. This is what I mean. My opinions are very nuanced. I'm very nuanced on this, man. I have a lot of opinions here.

So the Republican governor here, Dave Heineman, was pissed off about this. He said that the ruling amounted to judicial activism. He was very upset. He said, quote, I'm appalled by the Nebraska Supreme Court's decision. Today, the court has asserted itself improperly as a policymaker. Blah, blah, blah. He keeps going on. He went political. He went political on it, yeah, which has nothing to do with this here. I hate that so much. The political argument, fuck you. Yeah, we don't need that at all here.

When you're talking about a human life, I get it. When you're talking about furthering your political career, you can eat dicks. Thank you. Exactly. July 2nd, 2009, he files, Ray Mamata files for post-conviction relief and request for an appointment of counsel. He says he wants to now fight further about shit here. Mata participated. He wants to be an activist?

Yeah, yeah. He said the judge asked him whether the counsel's for, does he want it for a hearing? What does he want it for? And Mata over the phone said he believed the motion for an evidentiary hearing was premature because he's not ready. So I don't know. They're like, well, what do you need a fucking lawyer for? You don't need a counsel if you don't even know what you need a counsel for. What are we doing here?

Which I don't know how a guy of 85 would know what his next legal step is in the process. I'm shocked he could say evidentiary. He did not say evidentiary. That was another prisoner who's taken five paralegal courses. He wrote evidentiary on there, I believe. And he stuttered through that word. It sounded like me reading these fucking producers' names. Fuck.

I'm so stupid. Yeah. Now, he filed that because that was on June 2nd, because just a few days earlier, on May 28th, 2009, Nebraska legislature approves a bill to change the state's method of execution from electrocution to lethal injection. They still can't kill anybody because those drugs are not gettable. You can't get those drugs because. You've got to be able to buy them. Yeah. You know, death drugs aren't really.

They're not just abundant around. Yeah. Now, May 2015, Nebraska legislature votes 32 to 15 on a measure to abolish the death penalty. The bill was introduced by Senator Ernie Chambers. The governor vetoed the legislation, but the legislature overrode the veto. They got a 30 to 19 vote to override the veto. They got a 30 to 19 vote to override the veto. So, yeah.

They had, God, an organization called Nebraskans for the death penalty gathered signatures to repeal the bill, including Joe Ricketts, who's one of the owners of the Cubs there. The Ricketts family, they contributed $900. He lives in Nebraska? No, but he is a very, very conservative guy. That family is excessively conservative. Yeah, and they love the death penalty. So they contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars to this. $100,000 to killing people. $300,000.

That's crazy. Out of the $900,000. He contributed a third of it. Yeah, yeah. But November 2016, there's a general election. The death penalty repeal is rejected 61% to 39%, retaining capital punishment in the states. They do have capital punishment there. The last time they've executed anybody because of the electric chair debacle, now they can make whatever laws they want.

They can't get those fucking drugs. It was in the 80s, right? Keep making laws. Unless you come up with another way to kill somebody, it doesn't matter to you. Last time they killed somebody was Robert E. Williams on December 2nd, 1997. 97. So right now, there he is, modest, sitting in there. My God.

Hopefully someone will kill him in some way at some point. It's got to happen, right? I don't care who. I don't give a shit what happens to him. He's on death row, though. He's so secluded from everybody. Yeah, but Jesus. I don't even mean that.

I just don't care if he—anything. Fuck. Let his appendix burst and wait an hour to give him medical attention. I don't even mean that. I just don't care if he, anything. Fuck, let his appendix burst and wait an hour to give him medical attention. I don't care. I just want this asshole gone because I feel horrible for this goddamn poor three-year-old. Anything, this poor three-year-old and his mother, too. If you're religious, pray to Jesus for horrible cancer to strike this man. Yeah, I don't think that's really what Jesus had in mind. I don't know.

He might make an exception in this case if you're a religious person. He put another kid up there for him to deal with. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. And apparently one that cuts up a lot from the beginning, as we said. So, yeah. But anyway, poor little Adam Gomez. Feel bad for him.

Feel bad for Patricia, the whole family. That's a terrible goddamn story. I can't believe it. That might be the... I've said this how many times now? That might be the worst person we've encountered. Nobody else cut a toddler's head off. I mean, you might be right because it's just the other ones are –

The way he did it too. The ones that like raped children. Terrible. And they lived. Like that kid's fucked for the rest of their life. Oh, yeah, yeah. But this kid didn't even get that chance to be fucked up. No, he didn't even get that chance.

And the fact that the thing that gets me the most out of any of it, and this is the cutting up, the feeding, the putting in the fridge, the whole thing, the fact that he sat in the car with his sister and mother having an inside joke with the dog about it, that shows how fucking sick he was. He got off on the fact that they don't know that he's talking about that. I can't wrap my head around what a repulsive, reprehensible pile of human shit this guy is. For serious. But yes, if you enjoyed that story, you're a sick bastard. But if you enjoyed our telling of the story, you can— Then you are a wonderful person.

You're a wonderful person. You can let us know that by going over to iTunes, giving us five stars there. It doesn't matter what you say. Just give us the five stars. Tell us your favorite hat, like we said. Also, you can go to Patreon.com, like these amazing people that we're going to talk about who have done these two things. So many.

You can go to Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports and leave a donation there. Or you can go over to PayPal and use our email address, crimeinsportsatgmail.com. You want to get a hold of us on social media, that is very easy to do. We're on Twitter at MurderSmall, Facebook.com slash SmallTownPod, or you can email us, crimeinsportsatgmail.com. Of course, Chicago, December the 14th. Correct. Be there at Lincoln Hall. Get your tickets now.

But we have some new shows to announce here. And do that fast because they're going so quick. And make it a thing. Let's make a statement here. Because a lot of people, if you're thinking, I'll see them next time they come to town. If it doesn't do well, there won't be a next time. That's the truth. If you want to see it, come out and show support and show with your wallets at the door of a venue what you want to see.

You don't want to see crap. You want to see what you want to see. You don't want to see crap. You want to see what you want to see. You don't want to see fucking magicians. Yeah, they'll keep bringing in things like us that you want to see if you go to the show. You know what I mean? So do that. But more people to go to shows. Boston.

Boston. We mentioned it, but Boston, it is set February the 18th. Can't wait to try your lobster. Oh, it's going to be beautiful. Boston, at Laugh Boston. That's the one. February the 18th. It's a Sunday. Right. Boston at Laugh Boston. That's the one. February the 18th. It's a Sunday.

Right. Both shows. Crime and Sports is the early show. Small Town Murder is the late show. Right. Get your tickets. 4 p.m. and 7 p.m. Yes.

Get your tickets today. Do that. We'll have a link to that in the show description there. And also, a special thing. What? Very special. Detroit, Michigan. Yes.

Where are you at Detroit, Michigan? Me, Jimmy, and myself will be in Detroit with Dan Cummins of the Spectacular Time Suck podcast. Amazing man. Definitely. He'll be headlining there in Detroit, and we will be opening up for him. It's a night of stand-up, and if it sells really well the next four weeks, you guys are going to get a special surprise in Detroit, and that would be a late show, and it won't be stand-up.

No. It'll be something special. Let's just leave it at that, guys. I'll tease you a little further that it's, the plan is to do something really special with the three of us after that show. Exactly, and it's podcast-centric, so

definitely, you've got to buy the tickets for the stand-up, though, because if that doesn't sell well, then we don't get that show, basically. That's honesty. Whatever, it got to buy the tickets for the stand-up, though, because if that doesn't sell well, then we don't get that show. That's honesty. Whatever. It's a weird venue, and we'll take it. This business is very murky and gray and cloudy, and nobody ever wants to be honest with their audience. And we'll tell you, if this doesn't sell, we don't do the late show.

That's it, man. That's the way it works. So get out there for the stand-up, and you should just want to see Dan anyway. He's an amazing stand-up. Incredible. We won't embarrass ourselves either, so it's fine. It's all good. Do that.

And we have a list here. Jimmy has a list of some of the most amazing goddamn people on earth that we love. Our heroes, our producers. Hit it with us, Jimmy. Who we got? It's a ridiculous list. This week was fucking, truly, just so amazing. People are amazing, man.

Thank you, guys. From Kelsey sending that fucking gavel. Yeah, we've used it already. Yeah, truly. And then Sap House Meadery sent us a bunch of mead. Thank you, guys. From Kelsey sending that fucking gavel. Yeah, we've used it already. Yeah, truly. And then Saphouse Meadery sent us a bunch of mead. Thank you, guys. Oh, that was so cool. And it's so good, too.

Yeah, awesome. Thank you, guys. Go to SaphouseMeadery.com and get some of their shit. It's terrific. Happy birthday to Kat in New York. She fucking threatened me on Twitter about telling her happy birthday. So there, you fucking jerk. There's your birthday. So there, you fucking jerk. There's your birthday.

Susan Banks, Ashley Stevens. This one is fucking, we're going to struggle through this together. You guys ready? Kokuganza Akajiga. Hey, wow. That was wrong. That's way wrong, but I really like your effort. You looked excited about it.

Kokuganza, thank you so much for, Kokuganza. I think that's it. Can't thank you enough. I think somebody wrote that in on purpose to fuck with me. Oh, I'm sure. You're positive of it. I think I would tell you my real name. No way.

I'd give you something horrible. Never, ever. Tiffany Daniels, Laura Buchanan, Dana Grayson again. Hey. The guy comes through every week, too. Thanks, Dana. Thank you, Dana. Corey Patterson, Matilda Helu, or Helu?

Matilda. Mathilde, maybe. It's got an H in it. How do you say Mathilde? It? Matilda. Mathilde, maybe. It's got an H in it. How do you say Mathilde? It's got to be Mathilde, right? I'm not sure. Joe Jones, Chris Azcaraga, or Azcaraga? Azcaraga, right?

It's Azcaraga. That's definitely it. I like the way it sounds better. I like that. I hope it's that one. Scott Henderson, Mary Foos, Jared Ferguson, Ingrid Stokes sent some more North Korea money. Oh, cool. Thank you. Thank you, Ingrid.okes sent some more North Korea money. Oh, cool. Thank you.

Thank you, Ingrid. Awesome. Casey Tillery, Devin Rhea. That's the worst. Before the Secret Service investigates her, by the way. She did not send North Korean money. It's Norwegian, but we thought it was North Korean because we're idiots. It's NOK.

It looks like North Korean cash. Hey, cool. North Korean money. Awesome. They spilled cash with a K. Some of that Kim Jong-un money. And then Devin Rhea. It's got to be Devin Ray, right? Otherwise, Devin was called diarrhea for his or her whole life.

For sure, right? What about people that are named Rhea, like Rhea Perlman? What happens there? I don't know. She marries Danny DeVito. Oh, fuck. She's still named Rhea, though. No way to fix that.

It's brutal. Just got to roll over and look at him on the other side of the bed. Sherry Holland, Diana McCann, Jess Landgren, and Chrissy Anst-Christoffer came through again this week. Thank you, Jess and Chris. Thank you so much. God, you guys, really, we can't thank you enough. Robert Dye sent a donation and an email. Thank you so much, Robert.

I like talking to him. And go ahead and email Dan Cummins over at TimeSuck and tell him any of your concerns because Dan is a goddamn, he's a goddamn student of the world Dan and he likes to hear opinions and he likes to hear other he's a thinker so you can hit him up with anything he'll be happy to hear. Three things that I really enjoy finding out that

of people that like us they are they are women obviously black guys and then and then men of the cloth. Yeah, that's weird. They like you. We've had several pastors and priests. Right.

Yeah, it's odd. When they enjoy you, it's so much fun. It's weird, especially what we're doing here. Right. He had a thing where the priest said his thing was nothing is offensive as long as it's funny enough, which I thought that's- It has to be funnier than it is offensive. I wish everyone thought like that.

Exactly. The world would be a better place. Well, the people who listen to this do. Yeah. Michelle Seba, John Chiarelli – it's got to – I always say that. It's got to be. It's got to be. Chiarelli.

Rena Taylor, Claire Natola, James Hall. It's probably Chiarelli, honestly. Right. It had no C in there. Oh, OK. OK, OK. Or a K. Just Chiarelli.

Oh, OK. Sabrina Evers, James Hall. I think I said that. Holly Lissner, which she's a listener. Holly. Who's a listener? You're right. All right.

Holly Lissner. All right. All right. MCR Camperman, Anthony Arredondo, Rebecca Gammon, Chrissy Ann Castaldi, of course. Siobhan Latchey. Or Siobhan. Yeah, Siobhan. Yeah.

That's the weirdest thing. Yeah. Siobhan McClatchy. Lisa White. Sue Yeah, Siobhan. Yeah. That's the weirdest thing. Yeah. Siobhan McClatchy. Lisa White. Sue Bree. Nikki Thatcher. Katie Finn. Tim Ball, who I think is Sausage over there on Snapchat.

Thank you, Tim. Brett Hinckley. Justin Rogers. Thomas Guitar. Michelle Turner. Juna. Jesus. Juna Leisty.

Or Leasty. J-O-O-N-A. That's Juna, right? Juna. Sounds like Juna. L-E-I-S-T-A. That's Juna, right? Sounds like Juna. L-E-I-S-T-I. Leista or Leisty? Jesus, I got to see it on paper.

Juna, we appreciate you. And I still mispronounce it. Thank you, though. Sanga Robertson-Albertine, she upped her donation. So thank you, Sanga. Thank you so much. Joe Hartwell, Dita Vasquez, Helen Collinshaw, Siobhan Dugan. We got another Siobhan.

Wow, look at the Irish love us. Siobhan Dugan, We got another Siobhan. Wow, look at the Irish love us. Siobhan Dugan, thank you. Jane Greaser. So we got an email from a guy named Greg who grew up next to Michael Nunn. Oh, yeah, I read that. That's awesome. It's fantastic. That was terrific.

He grew up near him when Bebe's Kids was out. That's terrific. Talk about it on Crime and Sports. Yeah. Jeff Cutshaw, Amanda Renee Harris, Christine Quatro, Laura Crosby, Alex Marchi. Yeah, yeah, Matt Marchi. He updated his up donation, too. Thank you.

Kenneth R. Gerady, Writings from the Gray. I don't know what that is, but Google Writings from the Gray and find that person. Be nice to them. Give them whatever business they need. Yes. business they need. El Camil Anderson, Jared Ferguson, Paul Boyd, Savannah Showalter,

Madison Doherty, Steve Hugley, Steve Hugley, I think that's right. Siren Camilla. Shandell Whitney is a listener, and she has a daughter who's a service member in South Korea, and her and her wife both listen.

So thank you. Oh, awesome. Thank you, Shandell. Yeah, thank you. And thank you to your family. Super cool. Awesome. And thank you to both of you over there because you're listening.

No doubt. Stephanie, silver-haired, middle-aged tuxedo mask. That's somebody that donated. Right on. Nicole Cleveland and Joe George, thank you both. Devin, I write like a fucking toddler. Devin Rosnikoff? Resnikoff. It's definitely Res fucking toddler. Devin Rosnikoff. Resnikoff.

It's definitely Resnikoff. Nice. Nicole Aldred. It's a Cold War name right there. I like that. Monica Ortiz. And then Sharifa Alexis. Okay.

I'm starting this over because I'm going to get it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Sharifa Alexis. No. You took a running start at it. You're still kind of way short. You still came away short. It was like a pole vault, and I turned around.

You stopped as you were. No, never mind. I'm not doing it. You chickened out at the last second, threw the fucking thing to the side. Nope. I'm abandoning this shit. Sharifa, Alexis, Afria, hey. I think I almost got it.

It was close. I'm sure it's not. I almost got it. That was a good effort. I got up on the pole, and then I fucking fell backward. You gave it three pushes off. You really tried. That was a good effort. I got up on the pole and then I fucking fell backward. You gave it three pushes off. You really tried.

Sharifa Alexis Afriah Hay. Steve White. Casey Pequette. God damn it. You're on a roll there, Jimmy. You messed it up. Steve White. Casey Pequette.

Jason. No, no. It's Jacob. It's not Jason. Jacob Adams. Elisa. Elisa. Wells.

Adam. McWafers. McWaters. Mcisa. Wells. Adam McWafers. McWaters. McWafers. That's a T. Adam McWafers. That's nice. Not enough. Sorry, Adam.

Every week, it's like an octopus and one more arm comes around you with every weird name. By the end of it, I can't see your face. You're just covered in tentacles. Adam McWaters. Ginny or Ginny? It's got to be Ginny. Nobody's name is Ginny, right? Probably not. Ginny Burnt. Ethnic slur, I doubt it.

And then just Sarah. Somebody just named Sarah. Somebody just named Eric. Thank you both. William Hatchett, Becky DH, Hallie Gaston, Liam Toner, Wade Brandner, Jay Nathan Couch, Stephen Havens, and Mariki Bergman. Thank you all. Wow, thank you guys.

Or Mariki. I think it's Mariki. Thank you guys so goddamn much for everything, really. You guys are the driving force behind this. You listen, you help out, and you're being a part of something that we can't do on our own. So thank you guys so much. You're making this just a fantastic experience for us, and hopefully it is for you guys. And what if, what if, by any chance, somebody wanted to get a hold of a fellow like you jimmy how could they

do that you need to find me to tell me i'm a bit of an asshole i am for ruining your name you can find me at wisman sucks whis man sucks on twitter instagram and snapchat find me play along i love hearing from you guys it's fucking incredible and i am at jimmy p is funny you can find me there or get adventurous try to spell my last name. But I suggest just copy and pasting from the show description. There's a sneaky little eye in there that you will not be able to figure out where it goes. So don't worry about that. But guys, thank you so much.

I know it was a crazy episode this week and a rough one. You guys are all heroes for getting through it. Thank you very much. And God damn it, guys. Until next week, guys. It's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1

and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts