Small Town Murder - #454 - Crazy Is As Crazy Does - Colton, Oregon

Episode Date: January 6, 2024

This week, in Colton, Oregon, chaos erupts, when a man walks into a grocery store, holding a large butcher knife, and a severed human head. Back at the man's house, a horrible, and disturbing scene is discovered, including a headless corpse. From there, we find out just how disturbed this man is. This includes thinking that a squid was sucking on the back of head! Along the way, we find out that you should always go to lunch on time, that beheading a human being makes you really thirsty, and that once you start talking back to the voices in your head, that's a huge problem!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, and choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another really insane episode of Small Town Murder Express. We say we pack it in tight here, and this one is no exception.

An absolutely wild story. We will get to all that before we do though just want to say shut up and give me murder.com is where you get tickets for live shows the whole 2024 schedule is not only out it is available and it's all on say it's going fast so even if let's say you want to go to boston in december get your tickets now i know that sounds weird but they're more than half there are a lot gone right now. There's a lot of them gone. So get in there. Get your tickets. We will be in San Francisco, Sacramento, Austin, Phoenix, Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Nashville, Durham, Tarrytown, which is outside of New York.

You're from that area. You know that. And then Boston. And Boston. That's it. 12. You're from that area. You know that. And then Boston. Boston. That's it. 12. We're not adding any more. That's what we're doing.

So get your tickets now. We can't wait. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also, lots of new merch up, too. Oh, yeah. Get in there. Get all that kind of stuff and do that. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all the bonus material.

And there's tons. Yeah. Tons. A couple hundred bonus episodes you will get immediately upon subscription. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get all that. And, of course, you get new episodes every other week. This week, no exception for Crime in Sports. You're going to get one Crime in Sports, one Small Town Murder.

You get them all. For Crime in Sports, we're going to talk about a really interesting subject here. Players with disabilities. I'm in sports. We're going to talk about a really interesting subject here, players with disabilities. There's been a lot of players in all sports throughout history that have had some stuff that are, like, think Jim Abbott. If you don't know Jim Abbott, he's a major league pitcher with one hand.

He puts the glove over on his stump, and he switches it back once he pitches. He pitched a no-hitter. It's incredible. He pitched for years. He's a really good good pitcher so guys like that we'll talk about and then for small town murder because she just got released and god is it the most crazy interesting story we're going to talk about gypsy rose blanchard a bit and especially about the videos and the interrogations the interrogations with her and her boyfriend at the time are crazy and now that she got released and is we'll talk about her new boyfriend, too, which is a hilarious little cherry on top of that.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got the best license plate in the world. She's dating? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's in there. We'll talk all about it. Oh, my God.

Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. We'll talk about all of her. Dr. Pepper. We'll talk about all of it. What are we going to talk about? Casey her dr pepper we'll talk about all of it we're gonna talk about casey anthony's fucking ob-gyn appointment next you know what maybe it's possible what's her favorite prenatals jesus christ i'll get the him or her on here and we'll give it a little chat so unbelievable and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show as well so that said let's get

right into this i think it's time everybody to sit back let's all clear the lungs arms to the sky and let's all shout shut up and give me murder let's do this everybody what do you say jimmy let's go on a trip yeah we're going to Oregon. Let's do this. Yeah, we're going out on the West Coast again here, checking out Oregon. This is Colton, Oregon. C-O-L-T-O-N, Colton, Oregon. It's in northwestern Oregon, about 50 minutes outside of Portland. But it is rural.

Let me tell you something. This is out there. Oh, my God. An hour outside of anything on the West Coast is nothing. There's nothing out there. This is two hours also to Alsea. Is that how you say it, I think? Probably.

That is our last episode, which I can't remember because it was a while ago, so I don't remember how to say it. But episode 407, which was a fun one, attempted threesomes, Russian brides, and time travel. That was the one where the guy Googled how to time travel and fix this after he murdered somebody so you gotta check that episode out if you never heard it the he's like how do i not be a murderer he went to reddit and said anybody got any time travel ideas how to fix some shit you can't unfuck this this is wild it was all fucked out so population of this town 3 392 so pretty small it's tiny it's a small town median household income here is a little higher than the national average 86 250 and you're gonna need it because the median home price here is 602 100 so what it's a lot of big properties that's the thing it's a lot of okay a lot of

people that own a lot of acreage is how this works wow yeah uh history of this town i don't think we've ever said this before it's a historically swedish town is that outside of minnesota have we ever said anything about sweden sweden very interesting swedish people uh it's because of the logging. I guess Swedish people, when logging first started in this country, they were. Yeah, you got to make the shoes. They were the loggers, the Swedes, I guess. And so they came out there and it was a small community and still is a small community. There's only about six churches in town, about a half a dozen churches.

Zero taverns in the town. Zero bars. Not one. One tavern four miles outside of town. What? That's it. There's one grocery store, and it's not in this town. It's in the next town over, which we'll talk about.

It's about 10 miles away. There's nothing around here, is what I mean. What is that about? Extremely rural. Uh, it has turned into a big place to get Christmas trees from now. This is, Christmas trees are a big deal here where they used to have these family rural farms.

Now they're big giant Christmas tree farms. And, um, they said that only downtown Colton has public water. Otherwise it's all wells, but the wells are so good here they're so clean that people say that everybody that goes there it's this clean cold water that comes from these wells everybody says it makes bottled water tastes like shit

it's like wow delicious and sweet and good yeah so that's nice it's the air is very clean around here it's that sort of thing um they have a local butte here which is a 4 000 feet so that's high that's called goat mountain okay probably goats on there at some point now reviews of this town these are for god how do you say this again uh estacade estacadaada? I think you say it. Hold on. I have it right here. I am not going to fuck this up because I looked it up and made sure I knew. It's not Estacada? Estacada.

That's how you say it. Estacada is this town that some of the story is going to take place in. A very prominent part of the story. And here's some reviews of that town because there's none for Colton because it's too small. That small? That small. Here's five stars. And this one this one's small too there's one grocery store in estacada so it's not like it's a thriving metropolis uh five stars growing up in estacada i couldn't wait to get out i felt trapped there was never enough to stimulate me and i felt like my dreams were much bigger than anything it could ever offer five stars five stars there's more he revisits it or she revisits the piece of shit five stars five stars i couldn't wait to get

out it crushed my soul and any desires i had for the future what wow it wasn't until recently moving back that i realized that this vast evergreen prison was my home. Evergreen prison. Five stars. I deserve this. Five stars. I used to dread running into someone I knew at the local grocery store or gas station until I noticed that small talk is much more than common casualties. It's a slower way of life than the big city. Everyone is invested in the community and shows up to the high school football games.

Yikes. Neighbors wave when you're out for a walk with your dog. And everyone shows up for the summer celebration on Main Street in June. Estacada is much more homely than small town with a single stoplight. It's warm comfort you can run back to when the rest of the world feels a bit too cold. It sounds like a Hallmark commercial. Yeah, but I'm also fascinated with how much they hate Love It. They hated it.

Then they realized, oh, wait, no, I like the fact that there's nothing here. I deserve an evergreen prison. Evergreen prison. Here is three stars. Estacade, Oregon's a quiet small town near a river and the forest the town itself is okay but not the greatest place to be if you want things to do no there is nothing going on here nothing besides swimming in the river there isn't anything to do in this small town and not many people to hang out with swimming in the river. Okay, that's all there is to do.

The school system is not great and seems to be a bit behind. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, the sophomores in high school are 27, so they're a bit behind. The commute time to get to any jobs outside of Estacade, it can take anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and a half, which commonly wastes gas. The jobs also tend to be hard to get in this small town for anyone who is new and doesn't have many friends in the residence. That's a small town.

The benefit to this small town is that there isn't any dangerous crime, and it's quiet. There you go. And then finally, last, quickly, three stars, crime in this small, quaint town does occur, but does not seem to interrupt daily lives. So no one bothers you while you're grocery shopping to show you some crime. This is not a dangerous place to live.

Most crimes involve drugs and not violence. Police are actively on duty along with our fire department, both of which respond to emergencies in a timely manner. That's helpful. Great. Things to do here. The Love Oregon Festival. Okay.

Love Oregon. Love, Oregon. So like it's a town in Oregon. Oh, got it. Yeah. They have Oregon's, a spectacular celebration of Oregon's music, food, and nature in the serene setting of Camp Colton. So that's Camp Colton here.

I guess they get a bunch of farmers and they get local food and they have kind of a local food display, I guess, thing. Also, here's the schedule for it. My goodness, they have an art bus. I don't know what the hell that means. 3 to 4 p.m. on day one on the Sanctuary Meadow is a, quote, open jam session. I don't know what the fuck that means. I don't like that. I don't like that at all.

That sounds like 18 different guitars playing different songs. I don't like that. That sounds very unorganized and abuse to my ears. A mess. At 545, though, everybody, get your cameras. It's kids Ring the Bell. I don't know what that is. Finally, headlining.

Well, they have two musical performances at the end of the night. A band called Glitter Fox. They'll be there. Nope. Followed by an open jam session. So then you can join in, play some of the great songs. Glitter Fox and the amateurs all right let's get after it so it's gonna work right here um also the lisa lipton classical trio will be there

um yeah i don't know what the hell that's all about and wonderly will be there and also the tyrone hendrix band and hendrix is spelled like jimmyi Hendrix or the next Tyrone Hendrix There's a lot of people in leather lace up shoes. Hey Jimmy it's your cousin Tyrone. It's like the Back to the Future thing. I got something for you A walk then they have a Miracle Forest walk

which is a walk through the woods barefoot which just sounds dangerous No. I like my shoes and I'm keeping them out in the woods thank you that's okay don't miss sunday's gospel brunch either that's the other thing you can't miss that said let's talk about a murder what do you say here yeah this is why you can't pin down the pacific northwest you have no idea so different all the time yeah and you're not gonna like any of it well there's like they'll be in the

same park they'll be like uh 40 people doing yoga together while a militia also trains next to them like it's a very that's oregon it's you know what i mean it's a weird place well they field strip their gun yeah it's a field stripping class it's a a state of extremes, really, is one or the other. So let's do this here. Let's talk about a murder. Let's go back to Mother's Day 2017. Okay. Not so long ago.

Not so long ago. Mother's Day, what, eight, seven years ago now? Was it March? Yeah. April? When is it? It's May. It's like May 15th. Is it May?

Yeah. Whatever Sunday is in the middle of May there. Okay. So Mother's Day 2017. A 911 call comes from the grocery store at 2.14 p.m. So it's Mother's Day in the middle of the afternoon. Couldn't be more middle of the afternoon. And this is Estacada's only grocery store.

It's called the Harvest Market Thriftway. Oh, Harvest Markets are nice. Harvest Market Thriftway. Only grocery store in town. 911 call comes in and they said a customer, the first 911 call says a customer saw a man covered in blood screaming and running out of the store. Hell yeah. So that seems like something that the police should be made aware of. Yeah. Out of the grocery store. Another witness described him, said, oh, yeah, yeah, no. He came into the store, obviously had to come in to leave.

Yeah. Came into the store covered in blood. Oh, he came in this way. He came in this way, covered in blood. Showed up. Holding an eight-inch kitchen knife in one hand yeah and that's the that's a bloody eight inch kitchen knife and by the way that's the least terrifying thing he's carrying he is carrying in his other hand by the hair a severed human head yeah well i mean nobody thought you were gonna say anything else i mean

it could have been a penis it could have been a you if you buy the top if you if you walked in with a severed dick would you be surprised it's episode 454 a severed dick walking into a grocery store going i bought this three days ago and it was spoiled. Holding it by the hair. Yeah. I have my receipt. I'd like to return it. That would be, well, blood streams from his fucking genitals, you know? Yeah.

Well, blood streams from his- It's just a- It's a head. Can you tell if it's male or female? It's a female head. Oh my God. It's a head and it's um you know not looking great because it's covered in blood he came in like that and then screamed and laughed well no he did some

stuff in between oh my he didn't just come in and go fucking show and tell look what i got and then took off no no no he made his presence known in the store more than that okay uh he walked into the store like that a customer scream obviously when they saw that oh my god oh jesus i mean that's such a crazy scene you would think that was a joke at first i would think that was someone playing some kind of prank if they walked in covered in blood holding a knife with a human head in the other hand i go get that today that's what i mean today with it's a youtube YouTube video. It's a TikTok fucking thing. You clout chasing son of a bitch.

Get out of here. Yeah. It's totally. This is for TikTok. Eat my shit. Get away. Get out of the store. Fuck off.

Content God. Get out of here. Fuck off. Content asshole. So they actually scream and freak out. And wow. OK. There's about.

OK. He comes in the store with these things puts down the knife keeps the head puts down the knife for a minute drinks a soda pulls it out of the thing yeah grabs a soda downs it fucking downs it which i mean if you have a head and a knife you're already shoplifting is not your biggest problem so also that's a that's a commercial that's a sprite commercial right there yeah because it's you know refresh you gotta refresh yeah it's refreshing there or mountain dew would be before you cut the head off you'd have like a you'd be like you know jet skiing and like fucking snow snowmobiling off a fucking hill like with snow coming out behind you then chopping someone's head off and walking into a grocery while drinking

a mountain you you you take the head while drinking the mountain yeah then you go get a sprite to finish it up and your blood-covered face you have have a big smile. You go, ah, at the end. So he drinks a soda, downs it, runs to the back of the store then. Okay. Knife and head still in hand now. Still got them. Got those now. Runs to the back of the store and encounters a guy who works there who's stocking a shelf. He's normally a cashier, but he likes to help out around the store, and he's helping stock it.

He's a man named Michael Wagner. He's 64 years old. So this isn't a young guy. Yeah. And he, the, the man with the head tells this guy, quote, you better run, which I don't think you need to even say that. I think that's assumed. I would, I would already be running if you've got time covered in blood bloody butcher knife head in one hand i go well i mean this guy clearly wants some alone time i don't he doesn't need me here i think he's got it under control whatever he wants his afternoon to be i'm not going to change the situation i'm going to assume that was a short temper that did that i'm leaving but the other problem is

he says you better run but then doesn't give him any time to run he's a 64 year old man 64 year old guys oh yeah it takes a couple of steps to get up you know what i mean you got to be like okay walk walk a little hot like it's a yeah a process it's not just you can't just burst into a run there's a couple of slow steps before the run. To get the balance right. Yeah. So he was just helping out this poor guy. This guy, by the way, Mike Wagner, he grew up around here. And his wife grew up around here.

I'm sorry. And his wife said, I want to raise our kids there because it's a nice town. He had been laid off 20 years ago from making steel oil drums in Portland. Yeah, I don't know. They probably have all those that they need. They just reuse them, I would assume. How many of those do you need? Those don't seem to break down unless you put them in a river with a body in it.

Yeah, and even then, the reason why they put the body in it is they hold up pretty well. Yeah, I mean, they pulled some out of Lake Mead. Yeah, they pulled them out of lake mead they've been there for 50 years that's not bad right so he was unemployed for six months and he went to the grocery store and they they offered him a job and that same day the steel oil drum place offered him his job back and he said i'm gonna stay at this grocery store no i i like the groceries i don't want to commute i don't want to do any of that. I'm going to do the grocery store.

So he's worked there for 21 years. Wow. Yeah. Mike Wagner said it was meant to be that I worked there. So he decided, by the way, he should have been on his lunch break at this moment in time. Oh, no. He was going to his lunch break late because he decided to help and shelve a few more boxes of produce before he he's like let me get these last couple boxes done before my man goes above and beyond he's being

like a responsible worker yeah or he's like uh my lunch can wait so going above and beyond he said he uh he walked into the back room went inside, entered the walk-in refrigerator with loud fans. So he never heard anybody screaming at the front of the store because he's in the back. If you've ever been in a walk-in, it's a sound. Boy, is it loud in there. You walk in. By the way, it's thick metal doors to keep all the cool in. And then it's just like there's no anything in there.

So he started loading food in the cart and went to turn around and go back out. And that's when he saw the man appear with the knife. And he said, you better run. And then he said, I'm going to kill you. Well, yeah, I believe that. The fact that you have a head on your hand proves your point. So he says Wagner was stabbed four times before he even knew it was happening, he said. Oh, my God.

He was just like, what now? What's going on? And then he was getting stabbed. Like, he was just, he was like, had a song in his head. I mean, you're working. You're not fucking thinking I'm going to get stabbed a bunch of times. So he is stabbed. This Wagner guy stabbed in his left elbow and his right shoulder.

That's two stabs, and then five stabs to the torso, five with an 8-inch butcher knife to his midsection. That almost goes all the way through. Yes, including one that was pretty much dead center of the guy's chest. Oh, Christ. Somehow missed his heart, though. Really? Yes.

chest somehow missed his heart though really yes so the wagner swings what is described as a lightweight wire rack at him so one of those little racks on the side that they have you know shit on shit on stock on he grabbed that and hit him with it which is weighs nothing but at least it's a it's a it's a object that you can get space with. And it certainly now makes the attacker start thinking. Yeah, at least so. He has to address, yeah. Yeah, it's not just I'm in a murderous spree. Now I got to fight.

So then Mike Wagner grabs the assailant here, grabs his arm with the knife, and they start struggling. He's stabbed so many times so many times fighting back so yeah if somehow he's not i don't know if it didn't hit any large arteries or veins or anything but he's not doesn't lose a ton of blood here from all these stab wounds with a giant butcher knife which is crazy so he's he's fighting with him and then other employees see it and they come in and jump on it too they just just see their buddy here fucking wrestling with a bloody man with a goddamn butcher knife. So they jump on. The knife falls to the ground.

That's good. They kind of pancake the guy, basically. They use their weight and just kind of shove him to the ground. Then they, at that point, the other employees begin to beat the shit out of the guy to keep, because he's trying to get up. So they're punching him and fucking kicking him in the head. I mean, they're working him over now, like he's working him over on the side of the road like a gang at this point. Unbelievable. Then somebody else, they get the knife away from him.

One of the guys has duct tape on him, so he just whips it out and starts taping the guy. Just starts taping shit. Yeah, he tapes the guy's ankles together so he can't run away. Fucking tapes up his hands too like handcuffs him with duct tapes now they got the guy duck cuffed on the ground yeah there and um some employee was pretty good with first aid they had been an emt a few years ago or something so yeah jumped in and tried to start help wagner with his bleeding and all that sort of thing uh he had to go be taken to have surgery, obviously.

Yeah. That seems like a going to need to be repaired. His sternum is all cut up. He's got he's got problems. His wife said, though, this is his wife, Pam Wagner. She said he's a tough cookie. I'd fucking say so. You stabbed him seven times with a butcher knife and he fought you.

And he was like, let's go, motherfucker, and started wrestling with you. He's been run through and then he won. Yeah. Imagine what he was like when he was 35. That's probably a real formidable kind of cat right there. You know what I mean? It's a man that casts steel drums. Yeah, it's a tough guy.

So his wife said he's the sweetest, most kind-hearted guy. We all feel terrible that this happened. Yeah, I believe that. Everybody likes this guy too. So he does survive. And he says, I remember thinking, I've got to get that knife and get him before he gets me. But he said he was getting stabbed before he even realized what was happening, really. But once he realized, oh, shit, that knife is coming out of me.

I better fight this guy. I mean, just to not go into like a shock scenario after that, to be able to be like, okay, and now I'm going to fight you is, you know, staying strong mental mind there. So he said it's almost like it didn't happen. I saw it happen. I don't know if I'm taking myself out of it or what. So for him, it's like he watched it happen rather than it happened to him, which is a way to protect yourself. That's how your brain protects itself from trauma is to, you know, figure out how to not make it be so scary. He had to be airlifted to Portland and everything else for surgery.

So obviously they arrest the man who did this, obviously. Ernie Roberts comes in. He's the acting police chief of the nearby town of Sandy. And this town's so small, they don't have their own police force. So this Sandy Police Department kind of patrols here and also Colton as well. Oh, my God. Yeah, there's not a lot going on out there so um he when he gets the guy the uh salient here he's on the ground he's duct taped he's covered in blood

yeah and all the man will say is that he's thirsty he's very thirsty that's it he's very very thirsty it's like men in black, it's a total men in black situation. Give me sugar water. It's what's going on here. He's just down to Pepsi or whatever at the front of the store. You just guzzled 20 ounces. What are you talking about? You're thirsty.

When you find out what he did, you understand why he would build up a little bit of a thirst. Okay. So let's find out who this young man is here. All right. Young. Young man. Well, not young man. He's a man let's find out who this young man is here. All right. Young. Young man. Well, not young man. He's a man, but he's younger than the man he stabbed.

So I'll put it that way. So let's talk about his parents first. His parents are Tina Marie Webb, who's 59 years old, and his father's name is David Webb. They've been married for 41 years. How is that possible? She was 18 when they got married. Oh, she's 49. Okay, 59. She's 59. Got how is that possible she was 18 when they got oh she's okay she's 59 yeah she's 18 and so i mean they've been big high school sweethearts basically and

they're still together yeah 41 years 41 years they have four grown children good christ and they they're doing well they've lived in the neighborhood in colton for 20 years which i mean they're this is a very stable people. It's a 41-year marriage, same residence for 40 years. You don't get more stable than that. It's tough to. You'd loan those people money. You'd be like, well, I mean, you know where they're going to be anyway.

If you need to go break some legs, you got them right there. They're not taking off or anything. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you The Official Jinx Podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye-bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts

welcome to the small town of chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper in this new thriller available exclusively on wondery plus religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel

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an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery Plus.

Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Tina, the mom, had graduated several years back with a horticulture degree from the community college. She is known as a master gardener, all her neighbors say. She grows wonderful things. Yeah, she also had designed and worked on a garden at a local church recently. So she's super into that kind of stuff. And they have four grown kids, like we said, including their son, whose name is Joshua Lee Webb. He's 36 years old.

He is our head-carrying stabber here. Okay. Joshua. Josh, he goes by here. Josh has vision problems. And his eyes, you can tell by looking at him, there's something wrong with his eyes. Like, it's obvious. Fish-eyed?

One's kind of going over here, but they're also kind of cloudy. Like, it's a... Oh. There's some issues with his eyes. You can tell, like, this guy probably doesn't have good vision to the point where he received social security payments because. Because he can't work. Yeah.

Yeah. You can't function. He goes around and gets jobs and stuff, but he can't really have like he's not going to get a career really. Legally blind. I guess so. But the problem is, too, there's blind people who do all sorts of stuff. I don't know.

So. But I guess it would be harder if you had like, I don't know. It certainly ain't easy. If this is like something that happens. If you're blind from birth, they teach you Braille and all that kind of thing. I think it's an easier path maybe. But if you start to lose your vision and it gets worse and worse, then you don't really know. You don't know how to be blind. That would be hard. You're certainly working on it every day oh that'd be so hard man blind is

blinds the worst thing in the world that's that's i think you might be right i don't give a shit about death i don't want to hear people anyway leave me the fuck alone that'd be great yeah i don't mind it it's also like at least you could see thing you can see what's coming like and that's yeah everything i'd like to see what's coming. And that's everything. I'd like to see if I'm going to get hit by a car or if there's a bloody man with a knife and a head standing before me and going to stab me. These sort of things I'd like to see. At least, yeah, to be forewarned of it based on just on sight. Whether we're done wiping our ass, that sort of shit would be nice to know.

Can't hear or can't see somebody can sneak up on you but if you can hear or if you can see then you can see anything if you're if you can't see you're being snuck up on in every direction can you imagine being deaf and or being having hearing and being blind and hearing somebody sneaking up on you who's there where where are you? You couldn't even fucking. Yeah. It doesn't matter.

Yeah. That'd be horrible. They're sneaking up on you from the front. I'd rather be deaf. Just stab me and I don't hear it coming if I don't see you. I'd rather have that than be constantly power. What was that? What was that noise?

And I can't even go inspect it. That'd be horrible. So Josh lives in a pole barn on his parents' property. Really? It's out there. It's very rural. And he lives in the pole barn, one of the outbuildings in the property. Yeah.

And he does odd jobs around the neighborhood for money. People need some yard work done or stuff like that. He'll do whatever. He lives at home so his parents could kind of help him along and take care of him because he needs a little extra help. And recently, in the past year, they bought him a dog because he wanted one. Hell yeah. Yeah. Now, his mother, Tina, always said that she thought her son was depressed. She kind of always used to say, I think he's depressed.

But the father, David, said he never saw any indication of that or felt it when they talked or anything. So the parents would be like, I think he's depressed. And he'd be like, oh, he's fine. I talked to him. He seems fine. So that's how it would go. He has no criminal record whatsoever. So he's 36.

He's never gotten into trouble. This is a hell of a first offense here. Certainly. His only conviction was for unlawful use of metal objects on tires in 2000 so i think he had chains on and it was in june of 2000 so i think he had oh i think he didn't take his snow chains off is what happened got it and he's i thought you meant like he's a crossfitter and he's just out there with a sled just beating the shit out of a tractor yeah at first i thought he was like it's illegal up here i thought he's like out there with a sled just beating the shit out of a tractor driver. Yeah, at first I thought he was like slashing tires or something.

All right. I think that's probably what that would be. Now, he's being taken away by the police, Josh, and at the same time, his sister, who is home visiting her mother for Mother's Day, with her children, by the way, she is coming back to their home there, the back of the house where the web home here. OK, she walks in and finds her mother's headless body on the living room floor, headless body on the living room floor. Holy, which is crazy thing to see with her children by the way she they walked in to find that her kids saw that they also find the body of josh's dog on the counter what as well his dog

cooper is also he's not bloody or stabbed or anything though and his head's still attached but he's dead so um yes apparently he he broke the dog's neck and then beheaded his mother. Oh, Jesus. He stabbed his mother and then sawed her head off on Mother's Day, mind you. Wow. With knowing his sister was coming home and all this sort of thing, and then took the head and the knife. To the grocery store.

And went 10 miles to the grocery store and walked in and then fought a man down to pepsi yeah walked into the back and said i'm gonna kill you and stabbed a stranger holy shit this is oh that's a day this is a fucking day right here man and this is no history of violence or anything to speak of in his entire life and he's 36 he's not 17 just just thick glasses yeah he doesn't even have them i don't think i saw the picture the pictures of him i didn't see him but i don't know so they take him um here by the time the officers arrived there he said he was thirsty and then after that that he didn't say anything else they said he was catatonic after that he was just in a state of complete you know limbo maybe he's starting to realize what he did i guess they said he was in a catatonic state for hours afterwards and wouldn't speak or wouldn't

acknowledge being talked to you just sit there and stare forward um then 24 hours after his arrest yeah being in a completely catatonic state say i'm thirsty to nothing for 24 hours he sat up like the undertaker he popped up in his fucking bed out of nowhere and said just said to whoever was around quote i had a nice nap huh excuse me did you wow that is that is do is if you work in that hospital you go is there a wing for the extra crazy do we have an extra crazy wing that is as far out as it gets right had a nice nap yeah i had a nice nap i had a nice nap huh look at that i i was dreaming i wasn't crazy isn't that wild yeah and i could see perfectly um he then said that oh shit oh i just oh i killed my dog and then i killed my mother and then i also stabbed that guy at the grocery store huh i tried to kill him yeah and

they were like yeah you did all that stuff um that's why you're here crazy person so they're gonna go ahead and book him on charges of murder and attempted murder and more to follow but that's just to get him in the door you know what i mean that's that's the beginnings yeah wow so his sister which is wild arrives at the home with the kids going let's go see grandma for mother's day oh jesus they walk in the door and they they saw grandma for mother's day but it wasn't the way they wanted we saw her on mother's day right imagine that imagine if that's your children saw that they walked in and said saw their grandma that's fucking traumatizing as shit so wow that is um that's interesting so he she's visiting she discovers the body on the floor

and she obviously uh went next she ran out of the house and went to a neighbor's house to call the cops and said you know my mother's got no head i need to call the cops they said that's a good reason so she said one of the neighbors said this is know, my mother's got no head. I need to call the cops. That's a good reason. So she said one of the neighbors said, this is just a nightmare. It's something you wouldn't imagine someone would do. Yeah, I would say. Yeah, that seems smart. David, this is dad.

David Webb. He said, I never foresaw a problem. If I had, I would have stopped it. He said, I just can't believe I lost my wife and son in one day. I don't know. I wish I did. I wish I had some answers, but I don't. I waited all my life to retire with my wife, and now I can't.

That's all I know. Oh, Jesus. Yeah, they're 59. I mean, they're just right there. You know, like, oh, we're going to relax and do gardening and everything's going to be lovely. Wow. He said, my wife was wonderful. I've been married to her for almost 41 years.

Joshua was our son. I never saw a problem. Evidently, there was one. I don't know. I start crying every time I think about it. This poor bastard. I can't imagine. Yeah.

This poor bastard. He lost everything. He lost everything in one day and just. His life just changed tremendously. And the guilt you would have of. Sure. How did I not see that? How did I miss that?

Anybody would feel that way. It's just a normal human emotion to feel, fuck, I'm the, there's three of us that live here. Right. He killed her. I'm the only one here. I'm the only one that's not involved in this. So a little bit more on Josh, because I feel like we need to fill out his character a little bit here. At this point, he's just a guy who can't see very well and likes to take people's heads off.

He's nebulous as fuck, yeah. Wow. He created a Facebook profile the month before this all happened. Okay. And didn't really post very much. He posted some entries that were mainly pictures of his dog. Yeah. And he made a comment on a thunderstorm at one point.

It's storming out really loud. And also he posted that he was in a relationship. You know, they changed his status on there. So he posted he was in a relationship here. And in the post it says, quote, When you can't sleep apart and anything life throws at you isn't too much to be with her. Yup. That's where I'm at.

OK. Really? Yeah. So he's in love is what he's saying at that point. Who's she? That's well, we'll talk about her here. Wow. Let's talk a little bit more.

Here's a guy named Curtis. Curtis Strandy, who's Webb's best friend. This is Josh's best friend. He said that Josh loved his mother very much. Josh was the last, farthest thing from argumentative or violent that you could get. He said he was, quote, the nicest guy I've ever met. Really? Gentle, everything he said.

This sums it all up with a bow. Quote, it ain't Josh at all. It ain't Josh. i'll tell you that much right now the nicest guy you know saws his mom's head yeah so who who's the baddest if you know a dick that's if you know a nightmare in your life man holy shit this guy curt, said he talked to Webb the week before or on Thursday. So it was like four days before. And Webb had Josh had urged his friend Curtis to ask a friend of Curtis's for forgiveness. He said, you need to go to your friend and ask for forgiveness.

And do you know why this was? Why? Because when he and his friend were 15 years old curtis stole something from him 20 years 20 years ago and josh said you need to you need to admit it and go ask for forgiveness from that guy that's it's wrong to let it fly nah i'm not gonna hang out with that guy no fuck i haven't seen him since the 12th grade he can eat shit i haven't seen him since that day that was 20 fucking years ago so yeah that's kind of how nice he was though like oh you should ask him forgiveness and admit it he said that you know the only he said the last couple months too josh

seems to have had a lit a fire under him to try to have a he wanted to get a like a career is what he wanted yeah he said he was tired of job he wanted a profession he wanted to like oh i want to do something for 20 years and i want an identity yes exactly and have a better life he wanted to like oh i want to do something for 20 years and i want an identity yes exactly and have a better life he wanted to have his own place he wanted to be able to be more independent which comes with having a girlfriend and all that sure feeling more adult and everything so they said that neighbor said that his girlfriend josh's girlfriend had moved was living there for a while with him in the pole barn. Oh, and he had, she had just recently moved away here. Uh, one of the neighbors said that web was a quote,

an okay guy. And he had an eye condition that made it hard for him to keep a steady job. They said they've never noticed any trouble between family members. There's never any fighting or anything like that over there. Um, his friend Curtis said, I wish I would have been there or called him that day to help him when he needed me.

So, um, he said he doesn't understand what happened to him he said that he doesn't know of any mental illness that Josh has it's never that he knew of he said he knows he doesn't do any drugs or anything like that he said he has become kind of religious lately but that's not usually you think yeah you don't usually

like find Jesus and then cut your mom's head off that's not the norm not the normal thing. Yeah. You don't usually like find Jesus and then cut your mom's head off. That's not the norm. Yeah. Not the normal thing that you do here. And he just said again, quote, he loved his mother so much. So his girlfriend, Heather, Heather's side, him is her name. She says that he's been weird lately. That's the, he changed and kind of, yeah.

She said that she saw in march his mood started to change yeah she says quote his eyes did not look right which is pretty fucked up because his eyes never look right that's his eyes never look right but they looked even that's what i mean that's pretty that's fat she only seen him in the dark yeah and then one day she did not look right? That's interesting, number one, which I mean, I guess just looked different than they normally did. And she said that he started rubbing the left side of his head all the time, which is weird. She said that he called her on April 8th and told her that he had a, what he described as a quote. This is, you never heard these words put together before.

All right. An odd squid pulsing sensation. Squid pulsing. Squid pulsing. In his head is what he felt. Squid pulsing. In the back of his head. Okay.

I don't know. Yeah. He said it felt like, what's the word? It felt like a squid was sucking onto the back of his head. How the hell would he know what that feels like? That's what I'm saying. So I said squid pulsing? Who the fuck puts those things together? Imagine being a doctor.

I just thought about that. Yeah. Imagine being a doctor and having to fucking sift through this shit it's like being a mechanic and having people come in and go the car's going you know that like a like a higher pitch like ring ring but only when it's the same thing he's like it's a squid pulsing sensation what the fuck are you talking about when i press the brakes there's like a squid pulse do you know what i'm saying? It feels like it's sucking on the back of my head. Do you know what I mean?

Only when I press the brakes, though. The fuck does that mean? Yeah. He felt like a squid was sucking onto the back of his head. A squid. It's not even the normal sucking thing you'd think of. No. It's so strange that he would pick a squid.

Obviously, there's an issue here with the squid pulsing and the head rubbing and she also said that lately he'd become super religious also the way she put it quote super religious like he got very to the point where he'd be like you need to ask a guy that you stole something from 20 years ago for forgiveness. Yeah, because that's a sin. That's yeah. So, I mean, he was doing that. He's trying to be for all forgiveness.

So she said that, yeah, squid sucking on the back of his head. That was about two months before this all happened in March and also that he told her and other people that he believed that she, his girlfriend, was, quote, secretly injecting him with an unknown substance. Uh-oh. Squid pulsing and unknown injections are going on right now. Yeah. Then in April, after he was posted, like a week after he posted how, you know, that's how, where I am right now when you do anything and all that sort of shit, he asked her to

leave and move out of Oregon and get the hell away from him. Go away. Oh, he kicked her out. Kicked her out. She lived on the East coast. She moved there to be with him. What? And he said, take your ass back home.

Fuck off. So she was like, all right across the continent yeah to be with a man who says that feels like there's a squid sucking on his head yeah go listen you with your fucking milky eye and your squid head and i'm gonna fuck i move across the country for this and you're gonna kick me out you're kicking me out i kick you out no squid boy what are you talking about so his sister sister said, this is his sister here, she said that Webb had been doing, quote, doing weird things lately and was losing his mind.

That's what she said. His father said that, I didn't see that. Again, his father's not home all the time, though, because he was out of town when this happened. So, yeah, I don't know if he's paying that close of attention. I think mom spends more time with the kids than dad does because i think dad's also working still because he was close to retirement so i think she spends a little bit more time um so they said that his behavior had gotten weirder in the weeks leading up to this he had told he had told i guess uh his

sister or somebody that he believed his girlfriend was injecting him with an unknown substance and that the Fox TV network, just overall, not even Fox News or Fox Entertainment or 20th Century Fox movies, the parent

company, the whole thing, the whole umbrella, quote, owned him. Real. Owned him. Real. Owned him. They bought me. Squid pulsing, secret injections, and owned by Fox Television. I don't know. That seems odd.

That seems like he might cut somebody's head off pretty soon. Maybe he should probably intervene there. He also told his girlfriend that a black box in the garage shouldn't be there and it must contain a device that's recording him. But he didn't go look at it or inspect it or make sure it had a thing in it or get rid of it. It's there and it's recording me and I can't do anything about it. Okay. So, secret injection, squid sucking uh yeah it's uh it's fox tv owns you and the box in the garage is recording i'm never going to church

go shit i assumed that it was placed uh there by fox is what his so he's got to assume right the box is placed is placed there by Fox. They own him, so they're going to want to know what he's up to. So then in late April, after he kicked his girlfriend out, after he did all of that, he went to the police and voluntarily turned in all of his guns. He had guns because he goes in the woods and he's hunting stuff. He gave them all his guns. He said, I don't want these anymore. Will you take my guns from me? And he said that. They said these anymore will you take my guns from me and he said that they said well why sir and he said well uh and the cop said because he recognized

that voices were talking to him and leading him quote into trouble yeah give us those why don't you go ahead and yeah we'll go ahead and take those off your hands there buddy um anything else sharp around the house you want to maybe give us anything that's not made of nerf if possibly you could hand that over to us we'd enjoy that why do you want us to have those because the voices okay we'll take them yeah then he also destroyed all the knives that he owned. Okay. All any pocket knives or hunting knife, any, all that he owned. And then he went to two different police agencies and reported himself as a murderer. I'm a murderer. You have to come arrest me.

And they were like, well, who'd you kill? And he was like, I don't know. Just come arrest me. I'm a murderer. And they were like, well, we kind of need to know like who you killed and how it happened and stuff. We can't just arrest people for murder because they say they killed someone and he was well i don't have all that information but i'd like to be arrested for murder it's all a light-hearted nightmare on our podcast morbid

we're your hosts i'm alina urquhart and i'm ash kelly and our show is part true crime part spooky and part comedy the stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the

details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed

red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those We'll see you next time. right now by joining Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is

pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the

details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

He said he was hoping that they would arrest him. He was trying to get arrested and they wouldn't arrest him. So he's like, damn it. Now, psychiatrists, once he's in the hospital, say that the time of year may have played a role in his mood change. May? Yes. This one guy, he said, quote, when they get flooded with daylight, they can be very that can be very activating, which can push them toward anxiety

or anger. And yeah, because April showers, April showers. Yeah. And then that's what happens. You got May flowers and then the squids come out. Usually that's how it works. And they lash onto the back of your head, suck everything out of you. Sucking on a honeysuckle.

That's how it works. Squids everywhere in the field. It's squid season. You know how it goes. Now, his father spoke to him the night before the murder and said he seemed in good spirits i don't think dad has a real grasp of what's happening here i feel terrible for dad because obviously he lost his wife and his son and this is fucking horrible but i don't feel like his 36 year old son who lives in the pole barns mental condition was

number one on this guy's radar considering that his sister said he was going downhill his girlfriend said that all the but not dad saying he's in good spirits he seemed fine to me is what he said so yeah they said there could have been a number of things they're talking to psychiatrists going what could have triggered something like this and the psychiatrist said it could have been caused by a number of things it might have been a bipolar thing possibly a manic flare-up or something he said it also could been caused by a number of things. It might have been a bipolar thing, possibly a manic flare up or something. He said it also could be a tumor. Judging by him rubbing his head and feeling a weird sensation, it could be a tumor.

He said it could be drug use. He said those are things that can start psychosis. Okay, so that's possible. And this guy said this. This is amazing. Quote, he said that if someone has a mental health issue, you should pay attention to how they react to stuff. Then he said this. Now, if we put everybody, if we said you need to be in a rubber room, anybody who had these qualities, half the fucking three quarters of the country would be put away. half the fucking three quarters of the country would be put away yeah like watch any of those like neighbor wars or any of those shows and you'd be like we're not okay and see this is why

people are fighting in the streets uh quote irritability if people are interpreting anything you say is the most in the most negative possible way so basically everyone on social media needs to be put in a facility at this point sure Sure. He just described Twitter or fucking Instagram or anything else. Yeah, it's not good. No. It's not good out there. That's what it's like. So Wagner, back to him, he survives.

He's in the hospital for a while. He has surgeries. He said he never felt any pain during the attack. He said the thing that he considers himself lucky, in addition to not dying, is that he never saw the woman's head, he said he the thing that he considers himself lucky in addition to not dying is that he never saw the woman's head he said he had put the head down right before he talked to him you know because you got to have your hands free when you're going to murder somebody sure sure so he said it was harder on everybody else than it was on me they had to deal with all that which i wouldn't i'd rather see a head than be stabbed seven times how about you uh run through uh i'd rather i'd rather see a head than be stabbed seven times. How about you? Run through. I'd rather play peekaboo with a corpse head.

You can show me a bunch of heads and I'd probably be much better with it. Yeah. I'd rather see five of them than be stabbed with a five-inch blade. Yeah. Line them up. Heads of like a famous rock group. I'll line them all up. I don't care.

Five of theirs. Show me all of Kiss beheaded. And I'd rather see that. Full makeup and everything. So about the Wagner guy, one of the co-workers said, he's such a happy-go-lucky guy. He'll sit and tell you which vegetables to get

and which ones not to. Really nice guy. No one around here will ever have a bad thing to say about him. One lady, Connie, Connie's 71, and she had been to the store. It was 2 o'clock in the afternoon, mind you. She had already been to the grocery store three hours, three different times that day.

Lady. What the fuck does she keep forgetting? Make a fucking list, lady. I get it. Make a list. What are you doing here? Learn the notes app. It makes it so much easier. I forgot that, too.

You can share it with your husband, and he'll tell you when you got something wrong. Yeah. Oh, no. He says, add that to it. You guys can both add to it. It's fun. She said, everyone is family here, and we all take care of each other. When something like this happens, we all feel it.

She said it like this is common. The last guy nearly got run through in the grocery store we gathered around him too really rallied around him she said we're just so thankful he survived if we lost him this town wouldn't be the same outside the market there was a big sign that said get well soon mike and people uh people put he loves cheetos they put bags of cheetos outside for oh god he's never to pay for Cheetos again. No. Oh, hell no. And then they also set up a Mike Wagner medical donation thing at the bank.

That's nice. His recovery expenses and everything like that. And he says, I had to come back just to see everyone and thank them when he got out of the hospital. He said, I belong here. This is my place. I'd be like, I'm never coming back to this fucking grocery store ever again. I'm going to revisit building steel drums. Yeah, I'm going to go there.

One of his daughters said, he just seems unfazed. Yeah. Unbelievable. He said, I just want to go back to being the guy who works in produce, not the guy who got stabbed in produce. Well, sir. I like this guy. He's going to get some humor. No.

There's going to be bloodstains. You can't clean those up. There's going to be bloodstains on that concrete floor forever that are yours. You have so many scars about it. So he's arraigned. Josh is, obviously. He makes no arraignment other than to confirm his name and date of birth. And they got him in the old anti-suicide smock thing and everything.

Like, he is not in good shape. suicide smock thing and everything like he is not in good shape he's accused of murder attempted murder first degree abuse of a corpse and first degree aggravated animal abuse as well yeah yeah you should get all those should be yeah so the investigation aside or whatever it is all sorry canine aside absolutely so the investigators are awaiting toxicology reports because they're like what was he on something like his behavior? So out there, they're like he's either on something or the craziest motherfucker who walks this earth. One of the two. Yeah.

I mean, it's outrageous to be covered in blood and carry your mother's head with you and the murder weapon into a fucking public place. Where are the most people? Outrageous. That's what he said. That's the only thing. Where is the most people outrade gathered is what he said that's the only thing where is the most people the grocery store and to make a crazier scene crazier yeah just shoplifting a soda and guzzling it in front of everybody i'm surprised they didn't charge him with that yeah they should have got him a shop shoplifting $1.29 should have mattered oh my god so they hope that things will they'll get some sort of explanation.

He goes to court and the judge is setting a trial date, which is normally just here's the date done and you move on. Instead, Josh wants to talk about the trial date. The judge says June 26th, which is like a month away. And Josh said, well, can we do it early? Can we do it early can we do it sooner i don't want to wait that long and so the judge said well we need extra time for everybody to you know get evidence and everybody make their stuff together i bet your defense attorney would like the time probably and yeah talk to that guy so they said he just kept his head lowered or and

that was that at that point all he did in court that day besides say, can we do it sooner, was at one point he asked a deputy for a cup of water. He's very thirsty, this man. What is the deal? He kept his eyes closed the whole time. And they said that might be because the light might hurt his eyes. It's very bright in court, obviously. Does he have diabetes? But it's also bright in a grocery store and he had no problem stabbing someone so yeah he they gave him the cup he kept his eyes closed he tilted his head back

and drank the whole cup in one sip and then all he said was it tastes bad and gave him back the cup that's not colton water that's not colton well water it tastes why do you think i said that about the water it's hilarious yeah it tastes bad see that fucking arrowhead oh yeah that's just garbage dip a ladle in my well sir please so jesus the cops said they had no idea why he kept his eyes closed the whole time when he talked and did that sort of thing. So he pleads not guilty of all these things, obviously. His attorney, though, says we're probably going to rely on an insanity defense here because I don't know what the fuck's going on with this guy. He's not helping in his defense. He's clearly got some issues.

He's not helping in his defense. He's clearly got some issues. So they filed a notice saying that he was suffering from an undisclosed mental disease or defect in the attorney's opinion and would like to plead possibly guilty. What insane if we can do that possibly. So a psychiatrist for the defense found that he suffers from mental illness and the state psychiatrist said, well, hell yeah, he does. This guy's – you're not going to get people to go, no, no, he's fine. He's totally fine. Normal. Everything's great.

He chugged a starry. Who chooses that first? Yeah, who goes to that first? It hasn't even been invented yet. He picked up a Sierra Mist and said, I wish it was starry and downed it. They're like, what the hell? So, yeah, they said that he was likely under duress from psychotic disorders on the schizophrenia spectrum, is what they're saying here.

That's as close as they could even get to it, other than the reports show that he still, even after this, a month later, was suffering from hallucinations delusions uh he hears voices and also speaks to the voices he hears oh no that's a lot yeah hearing voices is one thing that's bad he's chit-chatting with hearing voices and saying yeah it is rainy today that does suck is fucking nuts that's's really nuts. That's next level. That's as crazy as you get. Like when they say, oh, you're not, you know, only he's guilty.

He's too insane. It's is he hearing voices and talking to them? Is the if you're not doing that, you're not insane is the way the law works. Basically, if you're not delusional, he thinks voices are real and he's talking to them. He's talking back. And the most annoying yes you can't hear what it's like some standing next to somebody while they're talking on the phone and the worst thing yeah yeah yeah you know he's on a bluetooth you're like who are you talking

to the worst part of it is the voices are all fox fox sports uh football announcers that's the other thing it's just troy acheman in his head all the fucking time. Poor bastard's got Joe Buck on there. Yeah, he's got Joe Buck and Troy Aikman in there. That's the problem. Because they own him. I might take my mom's head off, too, if I got to listen to Joe Buck all day. Jesus Christ.

All day long with this fucking guy? Jesus Christ. His fucking hair plugs. Jesus, man. So even though he was in, once he's in there they have him for a year they keep him now they delay the trial to see what's up they have him on anti-psychotic medication for a year and he still sees things hears things and talks to fucking voices that don't exist the drugs can't stop it no we can't let him out ever so yeah they his attorney said his condition presents dangers to others if he's not in an environment where he's receiving treatment.

You can't just put this guy in prison. He could snap and kill half the cell block one of these days. You won't even know why. So Wagner also makes a statement in court, the guy who got stabbed. And, yeah, he says that he believes that Webb didn't't want to hurt him or his mother but he couldn't stop that's what he said wagner said quote he needs help and i hope he gets it it's how nice of a guy oh shit yeah he said i saw the crazy in his eyes like this guy didn't know what the fuck he was doing he's not evil he's just nuts so here we go they go to to court and he qualifies to plead guilty,

but insane to psychiatrists for the defense and the prosecution, both diagnosed him with schizophrenia and psychosis. And he's still hearing voices even in court, even though he's on a year of medication and all that while they're discussing this and everything. They also have the victim impact statements. And one of the daughters said, this is Wagner's daughter, he said that she said she was obviously terrified about her father dying and everything and said that, you know, this last year has completely broken our sense of security. She said his mental illness, Webbs, needs to be addressed, but that the punishment for what he'd done, you know,

if he's not put in prison, it feels inadequate because one day he could be granted release. They said, knowing Mr. Webb is capable of such horrific acts and yet could still be released to the general public is both terrifying and painful. His sister, Josh's sister gets on the stand.

What's she have to say? And she said her brother should never be released yeah yeah she said that his actions warranted prison time though for the way she said that um otherwise that her mom's death will forever be without true justice she said quote he must pay for his sin how can a person not give a reason why he murdered his own mother? He's got nothing. That is, well, you know, he has no reason. Wow.

Squids and Fox News or Fox TV and fucking black boxes and secret injections and, you know, that sort of thing. His attorney said that he's remorseful. He knows he needs help and he's fine with that. She says that he understands going to the he knows he needs help and he's fine with that she says that he understands going to the state hospital is not a picnic it's just it's not and this is these aren't a pleasant great place and the attorney for him he didn't make a state he she made the statement for him because sure he could get up and just talk about fruit loops for 10 minutes we have no idea what he's going to say no idea he's up, for Christ's sake. Yeah, he's going to talk about the squid and the black box.

And we're like, I think we're off the subject. Right? I think, can we go back? We got distracted there. She apologizes to the families. The judge says this. The losses for both families have been profound. And we hope through this process that Mr. Webb will get the help he needs.

And he still does need or and still and he still does need help this is a case where the medical evidence is without a doubt you sir may get some help and uh fuck off to the mental hospital here and forever for well no that's that's the thing uh we'll talk about the sentence but now his family though they seems like wagner the guy who actually got run through is the only guy who's okay with this everybody else seems very upset with it the the his daughters are mad which understandable i get where they're coming from and the sister is very mad though yeah she said he's my brother and i believe this sentence must have prison time behind it. Again, she says it afterwards.

She goes, it's fucking ridiculous. Under the state law, he will be evaluated within 90 days, and then at least, that's to make sure he's still crazy, then at least every two years to see if his mental state has improved enough to be released. So he's basically- Every two years, we're like, how you doing? He's basically up for parole every two years. And if he's fine and he's been fine and everything's fine, they release him. It's been six years.

Where is he? He's still there now. I mean, he's probably still having the same conversation with Joe Buck at this point from back then. I thought you were about to scare the shit out of me, man. He is. I mean, he's probably still having the same conversation with Joe Buck at this point from back then. I thought you were about to scare the shit out of me, man. He is. No. He's out there.

He's gotten out and he's relocated. He just moved to Surprise, Arizona, Jimmy. Hope you see him. Don't go to the grocery store. He said. Watch yourself in produce. Oh, boy. Don't go to the produce section.

It really sets him off. When those misters come on, he loses his fucking mind. Thunder, man. Wow. section it really sets him off though when those misters come on he loses his fucking mind thunder man wow they said even if webb is released he will be under the control of the state's criminal psychiatric review board for life also is what the district attorney said um prosecutors said that after the hearing that he could participate in an initial release hearing within 90 days of commitment that's amazing obviously does that mean does that mean if he uh gets out they're still checking on him and if they deem him i think to be relapsing they can throw his ass right back i think he that's like almost like a psychiatric probation where they gotta check on you a whole bunch you gotta show up and they gotta make sure you're not here and shit and everything's okay you probably talk to your family, make sure nothing weird is happening. You talk to a window and you're right back in.

Yeah. You say, fuck you, Troy Aikman, one time. It's over. You're back in this bitch. So the Psychiatric Security Review Board, there's articles about it where people don't have nice things to say about this. Here's an editorial from a newspaper up there. Oregon's Psychiatric Security Review Board has failed Oregonians. this oh here's an editorial from a newspaper up there oregon psychiatric security review board has failed oregonians its main mission according to its own website is to protect the public from

those criminals who are found guilty except for insanity it does not do that and has failed to study the issue in any serious way if it had it may have discovered that 35 percent of people it releases from supervision commit another crime within three years, according to the to the stats here. They said it. They said that the board manages its prisoners who have been sent to the Oregon State Hospital rather than to prison after committing what can be horrific crimes. Well, obviously. Yeah. One example, the hospital is home to Joshua Webb, a man who pleaded guilty but insane in 2017, talking about her severed head. Unfortunately, the board doesn't track what its former patients do. Had they done so, its members might not have been surprised in January 2017 when Anthony Montwheeler stabbed an ex-wife to death and killed another man

in a head-on collision while fleeing police near Ontario. The board released Montwheeler from custody the previous month after he claimed to have been faking mental illness for 20 years in its custody. He figured out how to get out. Oh, my God. I was just faking it. They said, thanks to the enterprise pro-public and Oregon's public records law, the board's problems are now very public indeed,

while it has discussed studying its former charges recidivism rates and even made a stab at doing so a stab at it come on the work has never been completed a fact that has never crossed or never worked hard to hide in recent months during the enterprise to keep its records secret so i guess the governor kate brown ordered the release of records and so they did and they said it's up to the the Oregon legislature to take matters into its own hands. At least the board should be required to do studies to see how many people get fucked up again. For a final word here, here's a woman named Heidi Lowry.

She shopped at the Harvest Market Thriftway for 10 years. And she said this whole thing was a very emotional experience. She said, you're walking into a place you're used to walking into every single day. Does no one plan ahead in this town every single day? I feel like it's the social centers. They just go there because it's a maybe. But now, you know, the pain that went on just past those front doors. It hits very close to home.

She says, you don't expect something like this to happen anywhere. You especially don't expect it in a small town like this. There you go. That's our credo. That's everything. That's the show, everybody. And that is the story of Joshua Lee Webb. Holy shit, that's fucking insane.

That's a wild story. And he's never getting out. I would hope not. I mean, it seems like he's fucking crazy i mean it seems like he's getting he was getting progressively crazier so yeah i don't know if this is really just taking hold of him at that point he was fighting it who knows how long he was fighting this for and trying to keep these thoughts under wraps or maybe they hit him all at once i don't know it's crazy to think about bay for so long it's all you can do you

can only keep joe buck and chris and uh troy achman that you know a secret for so long so if you like that show tell everyone about it please please do post on social media tell your friends and give a review on the show whatever app you're listening on it helps give us five stars and say something nice doesn't matter what you say. Say what your favorite produce is. We don't care. They're better than Troy and Joe. Say what section of the grocery store you think is the best for attempted murder. We don't care.

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