Small Town Murder - #459 - Serial Killing For Fun - Coushatta, Louisiana

Episode Date: January 25, 2024

This week, in Coushatta, Louisiana, the discovery of the skull of a teenage girl, leads an investigation from a lone fingerprint, to a man, who is harboring even darker secrets. But while in custody, police figure out that they actually have a serial killer on their hands, and the real job becomes trying to figure out exactly how many bodies he's left in his wake. His confessions are horrifying, but which ones are actually true?? A twisted mess of a tale!Along the way, we find out that it costs extra to feed the gators, that there seems to be a lot of bodies, scattered everywhere, and that one fingerprint can cause an avalanche of solved murders!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Cushota, Louisiana, the finding of one body turns into much more as a local man turns out to be a prolific killer claiming dozens of murders and telling some very disturbing tales.

Welcome to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. We have an absolute insane show before you today. It is. It's insane. That's all I can say about it. It's crazy.

This guy is a menace to society and leaves a trail of bodies from coast to coast. It's insane. It's just nuts. We will get into it first of all definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com oh yeah why you may ask tickets to live shows hell yeah all 12 live shows are for sale and a couple of them are sold out already so right shows that are in months and months from now so please even nashville's a big venue gone wow yeah get your tickets right now. Minneapolis, especially, I want to say.

That will be, if it sells out, our biggest show we've ever had. Bigger than Chicago. Bigger than Milwaukee. So Milwaukee or Milwaukee, Minneapolis, Minnesota represent. Do you want Chicago to beat you? Because right now they're in first place. So what do you think? Embody your hockey team and be wild.

The Vikings are three back. You guys got to pick it up. Pick it up, guys. Timberwolves, don't go for top draft position. Get your tickets right now. Get in there. Phoenix sold out, too. So get in there.

We're very excited for that. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you get that and all the merchandise and everything like that as well. You should definitely be listening to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions. Oh, boy. Our new show, which is absolutely hilarious. You definitely want Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports is where you get all the bonus material. Right.

So much stuff on there. A lot of talk about the Gypsy Rose episode last time. This time, what you're going to get, get by the way five dollars a month or above you get hundreds of back episodes to binge on and new episodes every other week one crime and sports one small town murder and you get it all you get it all you get it all this week is no different for crime and sports what you're gonna get is we're gonna talk about morgana the kissing bandit hell yeah who was a woman who would come out with the biggest boobs anyone's ever seen. They were on her. She would run.

No, she would carry him, one on each hand. She'd run out from the stands in the middle of televised big sporting events and kiss players. On WGN. A batter's batting. She just runs up and kisses him, and he laughs and smiles, and she smiles, and he runs off. And you're like, how does this happen? So she did it for years. We'll talk about her.

Then for Small Town Murder, it's the prisoner dating game. It's back, everybody. All violent felon edition. Lining up four bachelors, four bachelorettes for Jimmy here. And the only thing they have in common is they are all currently incarcerated for violent felonies. Outstanding. It's fun. All he's going to have to pick from is just their prisoner dating profiles. And gets to choose and then he gets to find out what they did which is the fun part

after together after we do that so that'll be fun patreon.com slash crime and sports and you get a shout out at the end of the show jimmy will mess your name all up don't worry about that he'll screw it up so that's that disclaimer time yeah It's a comedy show, everybody. It is. We are comedians. At the same time, the show is deadly serious. Yeah. Weird, right? That's why we're doing a disclaimer.

Exactly. Because we are going to make jokes and people are going to die. The thing is, we know what streams not to cross. Do it best, yeah, yeah. There you go. And what we do is we never make fun of the victim or the victim's family. Why is that, James? Because we're assholes.

Yeah, but? But we're not scumbags. There it is. That's how that works. So if you think that sounds good to you, then climb on board because it's going to be a wild goddamn show. Everything is true. Nothing's embellished for comedic effect or anything like that. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, ever go together, we might not be for you. But we might be also.

Either way, no bitching afterwards. Let's get into this, everybody. What do you say? I think it's time to sit back, clear the lungs all. Here we go. Arms to the sky and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. What do you say?

Jimmy, let's go on a trip, shall we? Get in. We're going to Cushota, Illinois, I almost said. Cushota, Louisiana. This is a northern Louisiana up there. It's about an hour outside Shreveport

up there. Oh, okay, up there on the northeast side. Yeah, it's about five hours down in New Orleans, so this is not Our outside Shreveport up there. Oh, okay. Up there on the northeast side. Yeah. It's about five hours down in New Orleans. So this is not Mardi Gras, Louisiana. Not even close. This is we keep the baby in the swamp where it's safe and warm, Louisiana. It's a totally different type. Is it swampy there?

I don't think so up here. It's not swampy. Woodsy. More woodsy and swampy here. Yeah, right, right. think so up here it's not woodsy more woodsy and swampy here uh it's about five hours to morero which was the last episode we did in in louisiana episode 404 the laughing psychopath that guy was wild he was at this guy we got this week though is he tops him i think oh boy this is in red river parish because they don't have counties they haveishes, which are counties with a different name. Area code 318.

Motto here is Union Justice Confidence. That's a motto. No, that's something that's on a third world country's coin, I think. That's what that is. Those are orders. What is this, a Haitian quarter? What do I have here? No, this is different.

History of this town. There really is no other. There's very little history here except for one major event, which is what it's known for. That's the thing. So we will say it is named after the Kushata Indian tribe who inhabited the area before being forced away by settlers and that sort of thing. So the town is pretty much only known for the Kshada Massacre. That is what it's known for. Now, this was after the Civil War, during Reconstruction, when the Klan was forming and that sort of thing.

And for foreign listeners, we don't mean the Wu-Tang Klan either. This is the much worse clan this is the yes the ku klux klan the worst way worse clan so this red river parish is a small parish one of the smallest parishes in louisiana really it's known for the good farmland here so before the civil war it was a plantation economy there was twice as many twice as many people were slaves as non-slaves in this area so weird so that's what i mean it was one of those where that's a that's a tenuous grip on that shit if you're gonna if you're gonna have twice the population you're gonna try to dominate that's good luck with that florida used to be 90 10 yeah absolutely that's nuts so the 1800s it was cotton and corn and sweet potatoes and sugar cane.

The Civil War destroyed the area here, but they continued to grow crops. The 1974, from militias, formed a group called the White League. Okay, this is their version of the Klan, pretty much, here. The White League in Louisiana. And they were very organized at that point. And, yeah, they would basically use violence against anybody who was in office who they didn't care

for. And also to suppress votes as well, here. That was another thing. In August of 187474 they captured six officials in kushata and made them sign a pledge to leave the state and escorted them um and then they were killed as they were leaving the state then they killed them too so this was yeah very nice um the uh this the victims included the brother and three brothers-in-law of a republican

state senator at the time named marshall marshall h twitchell so um they also killed five to twenty freed men who had been uh who had been with them as well so they just super welcoming yeah they killed the politicians and then anybody who around who it, they just started shooting them as well. Jesus. Yeah, the events became known as the Gushata Massacre, and then they ended up having to get more, they had to get federal troops from President Grant to come in and try to, it was a mess, basically, a disaster. That's what this town is known for. Yeah, that's what this town's known for, is this awful, awful massacre.

And there really isn't a lot of history besides that. It's kind of like, once that happened, people went, oh, that's the place with the massacre, huh? I don't know. And reviews of this town, here we go. Five stars here. Perfect. Cushota is a small country town

where everyone knows everyone. We moved here in 2016, and I'm currently raising my three children here. One of the better decisions we have made. Is that right? Yeah, I'd like to know what the bad decisions you've made are. I'm fascinated by any decision. I want to know all your decisions now. Run them down.

What are you even doing? How many payday loans do you have? Yeah, let's talk about your decisions. Let's talk about them. How many kids you Yeah. Let's talk about your decisions. Let's talk about them. How many kids you got? Let's talk about all your decisions. Here's three stars. I wish the town would have more conveniences around the community.

There are hardly any amusement parks or super stores other than Rivertown. Well, not amusement parks and super stores. Sounds like you want, what's the word I'm looking for? A city. A city. A city is the word I'm looking for. Orlando's close by, man. Yeah.

Our town should have a more convenient hospital because in previous years, a person who needed to be admitted into a hospital for something major, they either went to other cities, including Shreveport. So it's a small, it's a rural area yeah yeah you gotta want that here's two stars okay kashada is definitely not the greatest town in louisiana it's full of corruption and theft we just had a 911 operator steal over 15 000 in public funds you know why does the 911 operator have access yeah why does he have a county credit card what the fuck is what are they doing exactly answer the phone and then leave that's it come back the only thing the only thing you should have access to is the time clock yeah did he get someone who's like i really need help i cut my leg really bad

i think i might have hit an artery and they're like let me ask you something how are you for investments right now and he's sold them like penny stocks like wolf of wall street style did he on the phone did he just ask a county clerk their their the last four social mom's maiden name yeah hey hey uh ted let me ask you a question. I've been asking everybody this. Ambulance is on their way, but... My mom's maiden name's Johnson. What's yours?

It's important to me or not. My first concert was Jane's Addiction. What about yours? How about you? What street did your best friend live on? Hey, what is the name? You know what's funny? It tells you a lot about a person to just sit down with them and ask what is the name you know what's funny i it tells you a lot about a person to just

sit down with them and ask them what the name of their first pet was because that tells you where their brain was gives you a lot it tells more than you know more than you know um okay uh that's only a tad bit of the horrible things that go on here and a majority of people of people in the town are rude and not welcoming at all i mean yeah i've heard about your history yeah not to mention the roads are beyond terrible and you could get lost in the millions of potholes what are you a tiny tiny person is it honey i shrunk the kids you guys lost 15 grand you You got to raise that money back up. No shit. The teachers in Cushota are the highest paid. I'm sure they're just rolling in it. The teachers in a rural northern Louisiana town are pulling in in Bentleys just like these suckers.

Jesus Christ. Yet has the lowest test scores in the state. Highest paid in the state? No. How much is the fucking scale there he just said are the highest paid he doesn't say of what there's no standard there yet has the lowest yet kashada has the lowest test scores in the state okay uh it's hard to find a job around here and there isn't many places to live around here there isn't much to do for kashada and for

fun uh in kashada for fun you have to travel to surrounding parishes to find fun things to do. Yeah, I think we've gotten an idea. It's a small rural town where people do farming and shit. That's that's what goes on here. But, you know, I live in a party town, pretty big city out there. And I got to go fuck man, 40 to 45 minutes anywhere to get anything fun. It's the same thing. Don't you strive for that?

You live somewhere that's quiet and then you go to the fun. Otherwise, move to New Orleans and fucking. Yeah. You're trying to drink and drive somewhere short? Is that what you're saying? Fucking, sorry, Uber's expensive. No, move to New Orleans. Still cheaper than that.

Smell around. When you start smelling strong sense of urine, that's where no move to new orleans smell around when you start smelling strong sense of urine that's where good that's where parties are happening and then get an apartment near there in the most urinary area of town you want to live somewhere that smells like pirates of the caribbean no thanks dude there's no town in the world that has more urine per more like milliliters per human of urine than in fucking new orleans it is just yeah the bathroom of everybody you can't walk five feet without seeing someone pissing it's and the humidity yeah i got it never the smell never goes away 97 with the scent of piss just hanging in the air it's it's impossible to get it to go so people in this town 2217 it's a little guy

that's a little town in the middle of nowhere you want fun you want an amusement park there yeah pick some potatoes isn't that amusing there you go i need six flags over katahoua how come there's none there? Kshata. Kshata, that's it. Male, female, there is. It's 54% male, which is way. It's usually more female, so it's way out of whack. I don't know what's going on. The guys are so shitty, the females are fleeing. I don't understand what's happening here. Running for the hills.

Median age, way low, too, 32.9, which is five years younger than the national average what's the fucking lot of draw a lot of babies and young kids a lot of zero to nine years old that's a huge families but there's only 28 married here 54 of the people it's usually 10 is the average 54. percent of the people are single with children this is a baffling town it's a yeah it's something's not going right in this town i feel like it's something's a little here yeah um race of this town 26.9 percent white 68.3 percent black 0.0 percent asian 0.0 percent native american despite the name and history, and 3.9% Hispanic. So it's a black and white southern town.

That is something. Interesting. 40% of the people here are religious, and by a huge long shot of a margin here, 21% Baptist of the people here. Baptists, as we know, are the Catholics of the South. It's only 2% Catholic here. Pretty low. Wow. Pretty low, I would say.

0.0% Jewish as well. In this county or parish, in Red River Parish, the last election, 39.8% of the people voted Democrat, 58.4% Republican, 1.8% Independent. Unemployment rate here is about average. Median household income is crazy low, though. Median household income right now, the U.S. average is $69,021 a year. Here it is 25 448 a year holy yeah that is low um cost of living 100 is regular average here it is 76 oh my god median home cost though 92 900 i mean yeah that's that's it's doable uh but your pension you are scraping crazy well maybe you want to doable, but you're pinching. You are scraping. Crazy. Well, maybe you want to go there.

Maybe you're going to build an amusement park just in case. We have for you the Cushota, Louisiana Real Estate Report. The average two-bedroom rental here goes for $1,030 a month, so lower than the national average, but seems way too high considering you could buy a house for nothing. I found here's a three-bedroom, two-bath, 1,512 square feet. It's on a two-acre lot. Wow.

It is a depressing little house that hasn't been renovated in 40 years on the inside. It is depressing. It's that hasn't been renovated in 40 years on the inside. It is depressing. It's going to take some elbow grease. It sits way back on the lot, too, like really far away. This house, though, yeah, pretty cheap. Only $65,000 for that house. So not bad. Cool.

There's something wrong with it, though, I feel like. Sure. I'm sure there's probably some foundational problems. Yeah, there's something. Like a flood happened there. But you're getting two acres for 70 grand. Yeah, I don't know what you have to do to it, but it might cost more than that to knock this house down and take the junk away.

Here's a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,274-square-foot house. This one isn't that bad. It's okay. Nothing special, nothing crazy. $ crazy 159 500 for that house and then this is the gem of the whole area here okay here it is the jewel of the of the county the jewel of the parish the mayor's mansion three point or three bedroom 2.5 bath it's on four uh 4.4 acres almost four and a acres. It has a metal roof. You know those metal roofed houses where it's not like old-timey fashionable,

just like it'll be cheaper to just put it in metal and then you'll have to change it less. One of those. Water slides off a lot easier. Looks like a nice outbuilding is what it looks like. Nice stove inside, I looked at. The kitchen has a really nice big stove, but the rest of it. Gas range? Yeah, big gas range, lots of burners and all that kind of thing.

Terrible flooring throughout this house. Absolutely awful, old, shitty tile. $360,000 for that little house, though. That doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense. That's the problem. It's a very, very strange goings-on here. Things to do. The Cushota Pow Wow is, that's the problem it's a very very strange goings on here things to do the

kashada powwow is that's right oh boy one of the largest in north america and they say it's truly one a one-of-a-kind experience be sure to witness a grand entry a rhythmic march that opens the competitions when all the dancers in full regalia claim the dancing ground to the accompaniment of tribal drums and singers. Wow. Then the Red River Parish Fair beginning on October 3rd, Sheriff Edwards would like to share the following tips to keep your family safe while enjoying the activities. It is like 18 points of how to keep your kids safe.

Keep your children in sight and teach them to stay close to you. Talk to your children about what being lost means and instruct them what to do if they become lost. And it gets progressively worse. I mean, you got one rule. That first one says it all. Then it goes into like, if they're on a carnival ride

and they get caught in a gear, like it gets way worse as it goes down. Really fucking weird also there's the gator country alligator park oh that's ten dollars a person that includes waiting with the gators feeding show with large gators handling of alligators snakes and lizards you can handle what is happening option to feed alligators and tortoises for an additional charge. Everything reptilian will let you touch it. You can touch it and feed it and fuck with it and jerk it off.

We don't care. You give us $10, we're going to hand it over. You hand it back to us alive and we ain't got no problems. No questions asked. We're going to hand you something green and scaly for a measly $10. Don't fuck it to death is what we ask because we need to make another ten dollars off that that's why you don't have more theme parks you got one you got one right there and also finally swamp boat tours there are swamps and i'll just read the first sentence you will get to experience the majesty of Three Leagues Bayou up close and personal.

No, thank you. There we go. I want it with a 12-pack. I want to sit on the top of that chair. Oh, that's fun. Let me drive this motherfucker. If passengers are lucky, they might spot a giant wasp's nest or even an alligator. Hey, look, wasps.

I'm lucky. Sweet. I'm so lucky I'm allergic. Wow, this is great. Oh, this could almost kill me. My luck is, it's never been better. It's endless today. Honey, we're buying a Powerball ticket if I survive this, because this is pretty lucky.

If you're lucky, we might. If you're lucky. What, hit one on the boat? Yeah, you'd say, there it is. Crime rate in this town, town what we're interested in property crime slightly below average actually here but violent crime murder rape robbery and of course assault the mount rushmore of crime about 50 above the national average so we rarely find a very little town where the property crime is low but the violent crime it's high it's usually the opposite

property a little high violent crime non-existent's usually the opposite. Property, a little high. Violent crime, nonexistent. Everyone knows each other. Most baffling town on earth. This is the most baffling town ever. Louisiana is a baffling state. It is, yeah. We discussed it earlier how if you hear like an outside New Orleans, like Live PD used to have Slidell was one of their towns. Their accents sounded like New York accents.

If you took them a sentence at a time here and there, they sounded like New Yorkers who've been really like got hit in the head hard when they were a child and they don't speak quite right. And if that's a New Orleans, that's an outside. It's very weird. It's a weird. My uncle was a deputy sheriff in Colorado. And as a kid, I remember him talking. And I'd just stare at his face because that's where he's from. Was this in the Colorado Springs area?

Yeah. Okay. Well, he might know of some of this that happened this week, actually. Oh. Yeah. This is a big thing. Oh. I'll have to call him after this.

Let's talk about a whole shitload of murder. What do you say, everybody? Okay. Let's start out in 1994 all right 1994 um there's a guy named john anderson and he's running for sheriff in 1994 in in this in this parish or whatever okay so he's got this big, ambitious agenda. He wants to modernize the sheriff's department and really make it take it into the 21st century, you know, a telephone or at least the 20th. Yes. I mean, at least the 20th century. I'm tired of waiting for the for the tired of waiting for the telegram man to pump out his messages. If I could just write it myself, that'd be much better.

My idea is to streamline 911 and give them all credit cards. That's how it'll work. Everybody going to get one. He runs for sheriff. This is what he's doing. He wants to raise salaries of the sheriffs. He wants to professionalize officer training so they're more professional.

It's kind of a mess around there. Teaching yes sir and no ma'am. Digitalizing communications which would help. And then also enlisting more volunteers to help out with things because they have volunteers that do stuff. So let's do that.

Also he talks about how there's advances in fingerprint and fingerprint and dna analysis and he thought that there was a lot of investigations in this parish that have stalled that could be revived by using modern technology so his whole thing is hey everybody i'm going to take us from 1894 to 1994 if we're cool we're very behind the times and let's speed this up a bit that makes sense and one of the one of the cases he ran on was an unsolved homicide that was particularly disturbing to him and everyone else in the area and we'll talk about why here it's a the case of a young young girl named Heather Dawn Church, and she was 13 years old, and it was fucking horrifying here. This was in the northern part of the county

known as Black Forest. Jesus. She disappeared in the Black Forest? That sounds terrifying. Heather Dawn Church, she disappeared from her family's house when she was 13 years old. Heather was one of four kids.

And on September 17th, 1991, she was babysitting her five-year-old brother, Sage. And her parents, Mike and Diane, had moved out to this remote. This is in Colorado, by the way. This isn't even in. Yeah, Black Forest is in Colorado Springs. Yeah, this isn't in this area. This is in Colorado Springs. That's why I told you that. But there's a reason why this is connected Colorado Springs. Yeah, this isn't in this area. This is in Colorado Springs. That's why I told you that.

But there's a reason why this is connected to this. Okay. So they talk about that. They bought this property outside Colorado Springs in Ebert, Colorado. Uh-huh. You know where that is? They're talking about how it's out there. Like this house is not on a street with everybody else.

You've got to know where this house is to go find it. It's out there. Like this house is not, it's not on a street with everybody else. You got to know where this house is to go find it. It's, it's out there. So they were doing this, you know, they were doing this to protect their kids and have like the family kind of in the middle of nowhere and have like a, an old timey life they were trying to lead.

You can really have a ranch out there. That's where my, my, my uncle had a ranch up there in black forest. It's beautiful. It's amazing. Yeah. It's, it It's amazing. Yeah. It's a nice area out there.

So when she disappears from the house, Heather, they basically say it must have been a local because no one else would know where this house was to find it. So, yeah, they said she liked to play outside. Maybe she went outside and a local neighbor grabbed her. They said she was responsible. Heather was studious. She was in the gifted program in school. She was not didn't get in trouble. She wasn't

the type who would run away or anything like that. So yeah after she disappears her parents or before she disappears her parents had separated. Dad had moved into an apartment and that was just left mom with the kids in this remote area out there.

Wow. She always said, though, she didn't feel unsafe or anything like that at all. But the problem is the separation, they start to develop into a divorce. So they put the house up on the market. Damn it. And there's a neighbor up the road who was living in a trailer with his wife,

at the time his fifth wife, we'll talk about that, on a property used for a tree nursery. Now, Diane, the mom of Heather and the kids, doesn't know this guy, but apparently this guy had become aware of them here. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along

with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980 near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again. Leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases

like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes,

there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus. two of her boys to a Boy Scout meeting at the local Mormon church. So an absolute like, you know, you can't get any more like, I'm going to a wholesome activity. This is a Boy Scout meeting at church, for Christ's sake. Very innocent. That leaves Heather to babysit the five-year-old. Okay.

Sage. Sage. So Diane calls the house at 8.30 p.m. to make sure everything's okay. And also she wanted to tell heather to close a window in the master bedroom that she left open yeah so go ahead and close that window um so diane gets back after the meeting and notices that the house is dark and a sliding glass door is unlocked oh boy so at first she didn't even think about any of that she's like oh they must have turned the lights off and they're kids they leave the door open okay yeah but then she noticed

heather wasn't in her room so she looked all over the house for heather and couldn't find heather so she called everyone she knew including her soon-to-be ex-husband to say you know hey what the fuck have you seen her no one had seen her yeah heather has disappeared so she called the sheriff's office and a sheriff came over search and rescue crew uh couldn't do anything until daylight yeah so as soon as daylight happened the whole crew combed through the woods and knocked on all the neighbors doors and everything else and no sign of her no one's seen her no one knows anything about it she's just disappeared from her house like she's beamed up from an to an alien ship wow it just completely disappears

diane said she remembered the open window in the master bedroom so they and she told them about that there was an open window so the police examined the window's bent screen which they say appears to have been forced. Oh. Popped off. The screen was popped off. And they pull a latent fingerprint, or they are, examine or dust for prints, and they manage to lift one good print. They have one good fingerprint.

That's the only clue they have of this. Off the screen door. Off a screen, not a screen door. Oh, wow. A screen around a window that's been popped off. So they have one fingerprint and no sign of this young girl. Probably a thumb, not a screen door, a screen around a window that's been popped off. So they have one fingerprint and no sign of this young girl. Probably a thumb, right?

That's it. Don't even know what it is. So they said, huh, if we can find the person that bent the frame, that would be helpful. Sure. So they said there's no chance she ran away. She'd written recently on a Mormon church questionnaire that the police end up getting here, that her short-term goals, this is how nice of a kid this Heather was, she wrote her short-term goals

were to be nicer to her brothers and get straight A's. Yeah, she said she liked animals and dollhouses and swimming and playing her violin. So, nice kid here. So, she is gone disappears and eventually some time goes by and it just becomes cold there's no find anything out they have a fingerprint that

they have no match to yeah they have nobody to compare it to um and they have nothing else literally not as she disappeared into thin air and so you just no idea no what about sage no ransom he's fine he's in the house huh he's fine 13 year old girl missing he's he was asleep when she got home yeah fine the fuck so that was a big deal then in 1993 there is a hillside off rampart Range Road about 30 miles from her home, and that is where they find her skull. A metal scrapper finds her skull. Holy shit. That's two years later.

That's the first sign. 30 miles away. 30 miles away. miles away. So over the course of the investigation, they talked to more than 40 suspects that they considered, including her father, Michael, who was separated from the mother here.

The case was on America's most wanted, which is a weird thing to have an America's most wanted because you don't know, you don't have anybody who you want. Right. You're on America's most wanted. You're looking for specific people. They're looking for anybody people they're looking for

anybody who might have heard somebody talk about doing this or but otherwise they have nothing here so shit that sheriff that anderson guy ended up winning the sheriff's race based on this he takes office in january 1995 and there's a guy named lou smith who he appoints captain of detectives and directs him to revisit this case. Get with that case. Figure it out. Figure that out there. So Smith did. He said, I started putting together all the case files.

This is all in Colorado, by the way. You're going, what does this have to do with Louisiana? We'll get to it. So don't worry. He said, I went through all the photos again. I made a timeline. I called the parents. I developed lead sheets for burglaries in the area, which makes sense.

We looked at a lot of kids and checked alibis. When I was talking to one of the guys at the lab, he said, maybe we ought to send out the prints again because this was years later. So who knows? Might have a hit by now. So they said all they had was that one print. The print had been sent out to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation and the FBI, but no match turned up. Is that right? Yeah.

So at the time, the fingerprint data banks of each state and the FBI were not all interconnected, by the way. This changed in 1999 when they had the integrated automatic fingerprint identification system came into play. So that was a big deal in the 80s. People go, how did serial killers get away with all these murders back then? Because nothing was connected. 1999. It took for. Yeah.

If you just killed in a different county, it took them years to figure out that you killed two people and put those things together as a pattern because they didn't talk to each other just didn't talk to each other so yeah he said he uh he told the county fingerprint specialist to prepare eight by ten inch photographs of the fingerprints then mailed them to 52 jurisdictions each with its own set of computerized records to run it through see if this pops up so i don't know if that's 52 of the biggest cities you have, basically. Yeah. Who's got the most prints. So finally, in May or March of 1995 now, so it's four years after the murder, Colorado authorities, there's a print hit.

When they rerun the prints, there's a print hit, and they figure out the guy who handled the screen was a white male six feet two hundred eighty pounds with a southern accent good teeth and no visible deformities is how they describe him what does that mean that's interesting he'd been convicted of a motor vehicle theft and burglary in louisiana and that's how the print hit happened here so further investigation disclosed that he was living in a mobile home on the nursery like we'd said in Colorado Springs about a half mile down the road from Heather Church's house no reason in the world to be touching that screen never his name was Robert Charles Brown Brown with an E at the end, by the way.

Oh, one of those. So, yeah, Robert Charles Brown. So they're like, let's find out about this cat because we need to know. Robert Charles Brown, he is born October 31st, 1952. So Halloween, baby. That's Halloween night, yeah. Halloween night, 52, born in Cushota, Louisiana. Really? He is the youngest of 10 kids.

Jesus. 10. Parents stayed together. Father did many jobs, including being a deputy sheriff. Oh. He was also a janitor and helped run a dairy farm with his wife, the kid's mother, for a while, too. So, by the way, not only is Robert the son of a deputy sheriff, he's the brother of a Louisiana state trooper as well.

Fascinating. Yeah, there's law enforcement certainly in the family here. So he's had quite the past and background. Yeah. He was born in Cushota in 1952. 1952. Today it has 2,200 back then that's what i mean 10 people in the same family that's like one percent of the population they were like yeah they were probably like we are sure we here we might be getting toilets soon in this part of the state like 52 was yeah that was it was rural as shit and it was a everybody

said it was a hard life him and his parents like there was 10 kids 10 they didn't have a lot of money and it was you know in a rural area december 31st 1961 new year's eve yeah he's nine years old new year's eve this is going to be fun it's not so much fun for this particular time because his grandfather throws himself down a well on the family property. That's how he chose to kill himself. It was throwing himself down a well. That came with a, I will throw my, you know what I mean? That came with a threat first.

I'll show you. And now you got to dig him out of the well. That's your well. You can't just have your grandfather rotten in there. It's not going to work. You drink and bathe and cook you son of a bitch holy shit so that was traumatizing for him apparently which for anybody you're nine years old grandpa comes over and throws himself into a well what do you you know you go fuck that's weird two years later when he's 11 his aunt who lived with them or near them was very close was brutally murdered as well like horribly murdered and stabbed and defiled and really

somebody gave her the fucking business so those are a couple of events that make him a little bit weird and a little bit dark and morbid and also apparently his mother was prone to fits of rage and emotional instability yeah to where she would freak out which i think that's just having 10 kids i think mom was just normal she's been this way since we had three kids you can take dolly parton if you gave her 10 kids right now check back in two weeks later she wouldn't be dolly parton anymore she'd be fucking backhanding people she'd be god damn it son of a bitch cocksucker she'd be screaming and yelling her wig would be off with her wig yeah her wig would be off she'd be like i've had it

i don't care this is what my hair really looks like no one's going to dolly world nobody dollywood whatever the fuck it is. So that's how I figure it. And I guess from what I understand and gather, his childhood was described later on as a, quote, succession of horrors and humiliations by older siblings. And the mother condoned this. Humiliations. He's the youngest of 10. So they're just they're just tormenting him. And the mother doesn't care because when they're tormenting him, at least they're not fucking setting anything on fire right now so she can sit down for five fucking minutes so she doesn't really even she doesn't interfere in this or she

condones it everybody says it's fine so by march of 1969 he uh he drops out of high school yeah why not why not and is this is i believe in his senior year, too, which is strange. Yeah, he's 17 at this point. Or his junior year it is. He's probably realized already, I have 12 credits. It's not happening for me. That's not going to work. I have no chance of doing this.

They said he was kind of a short-tempered loner in school. Not really a gregarious guy. He doesn't have a lot of friends. Later on in an assessment they say physically attractive is the question and it says this is the weirdest thing not not attractive but not unattractive while young just blends in no he's just kind of a he's mid you know that's it yeah to describe rush more in this guy it's a little mid so uh you're not unattractive while young here though he says now later on he'll have his iq measured at 140 wow which is borderline genius

and a very very high score so he's a very smart guy this is not an idiot at all that's that's part of this that you have to understand sharp as it gets when you hear his whole story you go how the fuck does a smart person be so goddamn stupid because it's is everything just so boring he's so stupid yeah or he acts so stupid now red river sheriff later on johnny norman will talk about how this this family he knows the family and he said there was a real tough time for them out there growing up in the middle of nowhere. This is Sheriff Johnny Norman. He taught driver's ed and P.E. So he taught gym class and driver's ed in the 60s and knew Robert Brown as an eighth and ninth grader, as a student.

He had him as a student. the ninth grader as a student he had him as a student so he it's very rare that you'll get a law enforcement guy that has this you know hindsight yeah because he fucking what he taught him in school you just don't get that so yeah he said that quote he was kind of a loner but he had friends he was a good student he did have a little temper which sounds like a kid going through puberty too that could be any i'm sure that you could describe 80% of the kids like that. Probably. He said that the Brown family ran a dairy in the 60s. There was 10 children, including three sets of twins.

What? Three sets of twins in one fucking family. I have never heard of that before. What are the odds of that? It's got to be impossible. Someone with a calculator out there, please, that knows anything about math, calculate the odds of one couple having three fucking sets of twins without any fertility drugs, mind you. Right, right, right. They're not getting in vitro.

That accounts for 60% of their children. This is drunk after work, sticks it in, leaves it in, and next thing you know, we got mad twins popping out naturally. That's just, hmm. That's bonkers. That's fucking bonkers. And that happens when one egg splits, right? Yes. Yeah.

Wow. That'll be the, yeah. That's not like two sperm getting an egg. That's an egg split. Yeah, that's not, yeah, two in one. That's an egg split. Yeah, two and one. That would be awful. Nuts. One sperm only, please.

Or is that what happens when fraternal? I don't know. I don't want to get into it. I clearly failed biology. Remember twins? One egg, it's split, and one guy got all the nutrients, and then Danny DeVito got leftovers. Danny DeVito, stop. So even in fraternal, it's one egg it's split and one guy got all the nutrients and then danny devito got leftovers so even in fraternal it's one egg all right that's how we know we we know all of our science

from the movie twins from 1989 or whatever the fuck it was arnold schwarzenegger taught me starring arnold schwarzenegger that's how we learned our science god we're so fucking stupid jesus christ it is it's it's frustrating how dumb we are sometimes it really is because we're not dumb but we're dumb is that her genetics that make that happen or is it the sperm that it's the it's the it's the mother it's the mother's side that's where the twins go i think that's that's who carries that yeah because my grandfather's a twin that could have been bad for my mom three sets three that's where the twins go i think that's that's who carries that yeah because my grandfather's a twin that could have been bad for my mom three sets three that's why so six of the kids were sets of twins so that's creepy and then you're the youngest one you don't belong in any of these

sets of twins right so you got punched by people by six people that look like somebody look the same yeah who hit you i don't know either johnny or Bobby. I couldn't tell. It was Tara or Sarah. I don't know which one. I can't tell. They both hit the same. Yeah. So the sheriff said, quote, they came up during some hard times. Yeah. That was hard times. Also, they said, now he, by the way, this serial killer triad, quote unquote, has been discredited plenty. Right.

serial killer triad, quote unquote, has been discredited plenty. That was one of those things in the 70s. They just kind of there was a bunch of coincidences of, oh, all these people have these three things, which is animal torture, fire setting and bedwetting. But nowadays they've done more with more of a volume of people. They've decided that that really doesn't mean anything. Certain behaviors are indicators, but most serial killers don't have all three that's the thing so it's one of those and neither is this guy right and a lot of bedwetting uh is is just childhood trauma that could also be medical there's different reasons for it or it could be a lot of water before bed yeah well they're saying the bedwetting and that that's

the other thing too they haven't figured out is in some of these people is the bedwetting, is that a problem or just a symptom? Okay. You know what I mean? They're like, is that, are they fucked up so they bedwet or do they bedwet, which fucks them up? So they're fucked, yeah. So then they feel bad, and so it's one of those things. And the treatment of the bedwetting fucks them up even further. Yeah, so that's a thing.

But he's not a bedwetter, but he is a fire setter and an animal torturer when he's a child. Okay. Very nice. Now, November of 1969, he just dropped out of high school in 1969. Yeah. Which I don't know if everybody knows what that is, but at that point, everybody who didn't really, really want to go to a fucking jungle and get shot at was trying to be in any form of school they could be in to not do that

you i mean you had people who were did not want to go to college did not plan on graduating college enrolled themselves in fucking college so they didn't have to do that just so they didn't have to go to war so yeah this kid does the opposite He drops out of school and enlists in the army in 1969. Volunteers. Yes. Because I guess if you were going to get drafted. You're going to take me anyway. I'm going to just volunteer.

At least maybe I'll have a choice of where I go at least at that point. So in 1970, he's in the army. He's home on leave. He gets married. Really? Yeah. Why not? Let's get married. No. Fuck no home on leave. He gets married. Really? Yeah, why not? That won't get you out, right? No, fuck no, that won't get you out.

But if you get married, then you get extra benefits. Okay. You get more money. You get more money, yeah. And also you can get housing for your wife and all that kind of shit. I'm not even going to say the woman. is a 13-year-old Cushota resident. It's eighth grade, mind you. Named Terry Laverne Ward, as in of the state.

Yeah. Fucking Ward. Or lives in the fourth one. Yeah. Now she is his ward because she's a minor and he's an adult. Yeah, that's a baby. Jesus Christ. So he marries 13 year old terry now also in 1970 he's had an active 1970 busy busy very busy he not only marries a 13 year old he only marries an eighth grader which i can't i just can't wrap my head around that you guys out

there you see you know chill you maybe you have children, you have nieces, nephews. Mine's 13. Any 13-year-olds seem like marrying age to you? No. Like they're ready to run a household and get a job and do adult things. I just had to make her lunch. Yeah. That's what I'm saying.

She can't do it herself. Yeah. Well, now she should be responsible to make an angry Vietnam veteran dinner while I'm sure getting pregnant multiple times. Now, in Vietnam in 1970 or in Korea is where he stationed, I guess, at this point in time. He is in a bar and I'm going to use his words, quote, became jealous over a whore is the way he put it. Okay. So he said another soldier

attacked him with a knife and they went outside to an alley and Brown claims that he broke the soldier's neck and killed him. Okay. Okay. But he never gets in trouble for it and there's no documentation for this,

but this is the claim. Guy attacked him with a knife. He broke his neck and killed him outside. He just did a real quick, like, Steven Seagal snap. Like, he's a, ha! And he did, like, a scream afterwards. You know how that goes. Very John Rambo.

Yeah, I don't know if he went home and told his child bride about that or what, but. So in 1972, he gets a bronze star in Vietnam. In 1973, he's awarded an award for exemplary behavior, efficiency, and fidelity from the Army. Also in 1973, he's given an outstanding service and connection with military operations against a hostile force from the Army as well. Wonderful soldier. Commendations, apparently. military operations against a hostile force from the army as well. Wonderful soldier. Commendations, apparently. He also divorces Terry Ward of the state in 1973. Had enough of her shit.

Yeah. It's not working out. I don't know. She's deeper into puberty now. She's 17. You know how sophomores get. Sophomores get real mouthy-like, you know what I'm saying? They don't want to do their homework.

Just not, you know, we couldn't we couldn't get along like she liked fruit loops i like tricks you know what i'm saying just don't work sometimes well she can vote now and that's not hot that ain't hot no more no shit's up she's 15 or 16 now she's still only 16 holy Holy shit. She's not even 18. No. Holy. She's like, you know what? I just got me a divorce. I'm going to celebrate by getting my driver's license. Unbelievable. Yeah.

16. Wow. So he quickly, after divorcing Terry Ward of the state, he marries a Vietnamese woman named Thuyet Minh Huynh. Huynh. Huynh. Huynh. Huynh.

Huynh. Huynh. Huynh. Huynh. I don't know how to say that. That sounds right. H-U-Y-N-H. Huynh. named ty yet Ming Hein, how new Hein, Hein, Hein, you, I don't know how to say that. Right. H H U Y N H. Yeah. That's a, that's Korean for ward. I don't know what the fuck that means.

Yeah. She is apparently not 13. So that's helpful. Yeah. Korean for ward here. Uh, he marries her in Texas. Oh,

like in the San Antonio area. Okay. They also are going to have a son here. Really? Yes. They have a son named Thomas. So he didn't name him after himself at least. They have a son named Thomas somehow in all of his crazy bullshit and being married, we'll talk about it multiple many times, this is his only child somehow.

He never has any others i don't know how the fuck this guy doesn't have a litter of children out there but somehow he doesn't only kid 1974 his father dies which is an important thing for these kids a lot of them here so in 1975 he's given another award for exemplary behavior, efficiency, and fidelity. So he gets another one of those. But within a year, because that was October 75, by August of 1976, he is being dishonorably discharged from the Army. So much for fidelity. For a drug conviction.

Oh. He gets caught with drugs, and he is arrested and convicted. And then the army fucking boots him. So he's been in which one for snow. We don't, it's an army thing. So we have no idea. So he's,

it's seven years. He's been in there. He's been in Vietnam. He's done all this stuff. He's won awards, but he fucked up for nothing and he's out. So, uh,

August of 76, he's discharged. He decides in, uh, later on right after that to divorce his wife oh so yes he divorces his wife gets rid of t min and then in september of 1977 he marries a 17 year old louisiana girl he's like got her just before the expiration date i feel like i really fucked up i gotta pick up where i left off that's what it is she'd be about 17 right now he looks at 18th birthday not as the date of legality that's

expiration date that's that's when the milk curdles he's like is that born on or an expiration which is which is that on this beer which when was it made or when it expires is it good till or just good at her name is one of the better names ever and terry ward of the state is pretty good but her name is brenda gail where really beware is her name uh-huh brenda where beware that's her fucking name fantastic brenda should beware because in 1979, oh man, Brown took Brenda down to a remote waterway where he beat her so fiercely. It was basically within an inch of her life. She thought he beat her.

She thought that he, her intention was to beat her to death and leave her there to die. Wow. Cause she barely made it out alive. Okay. Um, they're together for another year, though, after that. So that's nice.

She sticks around. Yeah. October 1980, he divorces Beware. Yeah, because she was where? Well, also because he marries another woman. Okay, that'll do it. You know, you got to do that. He marries a woman named Rita Coleman in October of 1980.

Same month, on the honeymoon. What everybody out there do for your honeymoon? Well, on his honeymoon, he chose to strangle Rita Coleman so fiercely that she ends up in the ER where her doctor told her that her larynx was almost crushed. So there's that. My word, the novelty of this marriage already quickly the first marriage they go shorter and shorter as he goes on here and they're more violent too the other ones yeah and in how many years fucking uh seven years he's been married five times four times four times he's a fucking he, well, we'll talk about it.

There's more. Don't worry. That's not it for him. During this time, he works a bunch of different jobs. There's a paper company that he works for, a wholesale business in Louisiana, and he delivered flowers in Texas. And this was all over the place. This went to multiple states. There is a flower root here.

the place this went to multiple states there is a flower root here so in 1981 he's arrested for stealing three rolls of copper wire from wire ways incorporated copper to sell that's just that's crackhead shit is what that is that's hardcore uh 1982 he's arrested again this is for burglarizing a construction trailer born belonging to the company he worked for, International Paper Company. He pleaded guilty to a reduced burglary and theft count and spent 45 days in jail for that. Probably got fired, too. That's, I can imagine. I don't think they brought him back. They're like, we're holding your shift for you.

Don't worry. You got that. No, second shift is all yours, buddy. They're like, we're holding your shift for you. Don't worry. You got that. Nope. Second shift is all yours, buddy.

His friend also talked about because he has all these wives and he likes to go after women. But at the same time, his friend says he thinks he's bisexual, too, at this point. Oh. Because his friend in the 80s said he talked to him about having sex with other men and then tried to initiate sex with him. And this guy was like hey calm down bobby brown let's uh calm down bobby brown let's chill out now um holy shit so if a man tells you that he's fucked guys and then tries to fuck you he likes guys too yeah he probably likes guys too i would imagine yeah that's a just that's just a rule of thumb to live by, probably. So 1984, he divorces Rita Coleman.

Can't have her around. That's over with. 1985, we've never had this charge on any of our shows, and we've dealt with a shitload of crime in almost 800 episodes. He is charged with stealing a bell from a local Baptist church. He stole the church bell. Unbelievable. That is a. That sounds like.

Is that like a frat initiation? What the fuck is that? You steal that. Then you steal the mascot. And Sundays are a fucking nightmare to try to sleep in. God damn that fucking church. I'll make it go away. That is wild.

Then on January 23rd, 1986, another ballsy move here. He stole a Ford truck from a Ford dealership. Yeah. Which seems like the worst place to steal a truck from. Right from the store. They have all those numbers. All the traceable numbers, they're all right there inside on a piece of paper. Probably.

They're all written down, I'm sure. He takes the truck to Colorado in 86, where he meets up with Marjorie Miller, who's an old flame of his, and hangs out there. Okay. 86, he continues to hang out. He's big into weed and coke. By the 80s, those were his two drugs.

And he also is, because of his jobs of driving distances, he is basically trying to wholesale large amounts of cocaine. He's moving it. Weed, too. Yeah, he's selling it to dealers. That'll get you a free supply and some money. His friend here going by the pseudonym Jack Mason is what he's going to call himself. He tells of a tale of Brown in 1986 shooting a cow for fun.

He's on the road. He shoots it. Then that's not enough. He gets gets out slits its throat yeah and drank its blood okay he said he watched him do that he thought that was pretty fucking wild um yeah just for shits and giggles thought it was a good time what yeah this was all for fun shoots a cow cut its throat licks and drinks its blood and he's like, yeah, that's right. That's what you do on a Friday night. Back on the road. Back on the road, buddy. In September of 1986,

he is arrested for the truck theft. They finally caught up with him eight months later. And also resisting arrest. And he pleads guilty to this because he has the truck. There's really not a lot you can do to get out of that. Welcome to the small town

of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er

lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart.

And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a

liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

He is arrested and sentenced to, you sir, may fuck off, 18 months in prison. He hung on to the truck for eight months? Eight months he hung on to the truck. He just drove it around. Wow. You steal a car, you only use it for like where you're going to, and then you dump it. Dump it, sell it for parts. You know, do one of the – he said, this is my car now.

Stole a car, I'm going to get some use out of it. So he is arrested. He is paroled, though, seven months later on april 13th 1987 here by the way for a while when he was in colorado he was a bed salesman which judging hearing this guy's entire history imagine buying a mattress from this guy you walk in help you with something fuck no you know this one be good for like if you got a 13 year old child bride but if you get a 15 16 year old you're gonna want this model it's a little bigger you're gonna you're gonna need them to understand the quality of a good bed a 13 year old still

remembers the car so yeah they don't know nothing you need to impress them with the softness you try this sort of he did know, to ask ahead of time. Now, is your spouse fully grown? They done growing? All right. Is your sleep number 13 with a wink? Right, right. Come on now.

During this, also, there were police reports linking him to cruelty to animal incidents, drug burglaries and arson his name has come up in a whole lot of crunch a bunch of shit that's going on here um yeah so he okay uh he goes to prison for almost a year there's a lot of stuff in there too that we'll get to that he said he did in the meantime yeah he gets out in 87 and works the counter at a quick stop convenience store in Colorado Springs in 87. Okay. 1988 gets married again. Why not? He's looking for love.

You know what I mean? He marries Diane Marsha Babitz in 1988. Now he's married at that point five times And all of his wives look exactly the same. Really? That's the other weird part. Yeah, they're all- Except for the- Lookers.

The one. No. She looks like them all too, except maybe it looks like one of their daughters possibly. Okay. No, no. I mean, a Korean looks just like- Yeah. Yeah.

No, same size. Really? That's his thing. His thing is he likes a certain size. He likes petite. 4'10 to 5'2, 95 to 115 pounds. Straight hair, yeah. And every single one.

Well, you're assuming. Yeah, we can only assume that. Yeah. He doesn't like big curly platinum blondes probably if they all have the same hair. Let's just say hair. probably if they all had the same hair i would get let's just say here although maybe that korean lady was just she was a real it's just different in korea you know we don't know so none of them are they're all tiny little women that's that's who he always marries all of them are still alive here though that's he hasn't killed any of them his fifth wife here that is i believe babbitts

hasn't killed any of them his fifth wife here that is i believe babbitts she told later on we'll tell police that brown confided in her that he hated quote women and cops okay yeah both of them what about women cops no fuck that i will kill you strike two his fourth wife here tells people later on that brown once put a pistol to her head and pulled the trigger and then nothing happened you know it was empty or whatever jam so he asked her to shoot him your turn your turn i don't know if you wanted to let's i want to play russian roulette you're playing it whether you want to or not. His third wife said that Brown beat her unmercifully because she forgot to put a spoon in gravy. What? Am I supposed to pour this?

She put gravy on the dinner table, didn't put a spoon in it. So rather than getting a spoon or even if he wants to be a jerk about it, asking for a spoon. Yeah. He beat the living shit out of her. Interesting. She later said, quote, he's the devil's right hand man. Call me when you pull the switch. Oh. Someone's going to fucking put him in the chair eventually. Yeah. Now, 1991, his mother dies.

He attends the funeral here and then right after that is september 18th 1991 or 17th when the 17th is when heather dawn church goes missing now september 18th the day after she goes missing county search and rescue personnel knocked on the door of his mobile home this is the morning after she vanished vanished. But he just said, I don't know anything about it. I don't know what you're talking about. And they went, all right. Yeah, because they don't know that his fingerprints are out there. Well, they were looking for more of a runaway situation than a kidnap situation.

Because they're like, it's out. Maybe she's hiding here. Well, that's the thing is here. He was helpful. But they said he refused the searcher's access to a specific building on his property, saying that it was securely locked and he couldn't open it. Oh. And so they accepted that and moved on because they thought they were looking for either a runaway or she wandered off. Not a kidnapper, they said.

So they said, oh, it's all locked up. So no kids get in it. Okay, good. And then that was good enough for them. And they said he seemed quiet and unassuming like all the other neighbors. And no one ever thought to be suspicious of him, basically. Now, many people were questioned. And the lifted print was sent to the CBI, Colorado Bureau of Investigation, as well as the FBI.

No matches turn up from their databases at that time. And at the time, it was a limited search. Like we said, the states didn't talk to each other. So after the initial search, a couple weeks later, the FBI gets involved with this missing child. FBI agents canvass the neighborhoods, but they do not knock on brown's door because it was just outside the perimeter of the search oh wow so the fbi would have said we'd like to take a look in that locked building we could we'll open it if you want we got oh we've got boots it's no problem kick that motherfucker open bolt cutters and boots and all sorts of shit. That's scared of a lock. They don't talk to him. And that is why nothing happens.

She goes missing for two years. She's eventually found when a scrap metal collector finds a skull in 93. And the investigation, they had a hard time gathering evidence. All they basically had was a skull that was retrieved from among a heap of junk is the way they put it. A pile of garbage. And they said there's not anything in terms of trace evidence. And at the time they didn't do like they couldn't do touch DNA or any of that shit. So they said that a lot of these people just, you know, they had questioned all these people and cleared them.

No one been implicated. America's Most Wanted did a thing that didn't get any leads that were any good. Damn it. So then finally, like we said, that whole thing, they created the timeline. The lab worker just fucking said, let's rerun that one fingerprint. We have one fingerprint. Fuck it. They said maybe in the last couple years the guy's been picked up for something else and now it's in the system.

We don't know. Who knows? And so they do. They put it in and sends it off to the 52 different bureaus. And they end up seeing it's that guy. They look into his history. They go, holy shit, he lived a half mile away. Police talked to him.

Wouldn't let him on the property to search a secured building. This is terrifying. We may have super fucked up. We fucked this up bad. She might have been alive in there. We don't know. Yeah. She could have been fucking.

Or we got it case closed. She's a dead body on his property. Lock him up. Lock him up before he kills any other children. Yeah. Right. By the way, she's the same age as his first wife. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. That's disturbing. So March 28th, 1995 1995 they finally arrest him so four fucking years later we'll find out what he did in the meantime which was disturbing so he's arrested um he sat down for a videotaped interview and the detectives were they were trying to establish whether he'd ever been to the church house before this day of the vanishing did you ever do construction there you ever cleaned out a gutter maybe you did some uh handyman work you did odd jobs you ever put up any screens on their

windows maybe just basic stuff they're trying to see if there was a reason why that fucking print could be up there and he says says, no, no, no. Quote, never been on their property in my life. Dude, that is awesome. Yeah, they're like, great. Then you're under arrest. Best answer ever. Try these on.

Did some odd jobs. They had me do some stuff like that. Then they would have been really fucking frustrating. So the detective said, quote, we said thank you very much when he said no no no to all that uh they said that brown looked shocked when they did that they said you know he said what are you talking about why are you thanking me yeah and they said well there's a fingerprint at the scene on a screen window on a screen from a window and um you know that's we got under arrest yeah he said there must be some kind of mistake you need to run those prints again run them again he did like a credit card

got declined like he's like run it again no i paid that bill it's seriously i i did the minimum yesterday so it should be good you made a mistake try again so there is no mistake though the um they have no other physical evidence though all they have is a single lone fingerprint and a skull. No physical evidence connects him to the body. They didn't find her blood in his house. All they have is fingerprint on a window frame, skull in a ravine, which is a thin prosecution. It's a chasm between uh breaking in and murdering yes uh or brushing your hand on anything you could forgotten that he was there i got drunk

and i wandered around and i just remembered i was grabbing in the wrong places i thought that was my window i went over there with a friend once we were talking about windows because i was going to replace windows. And they were like, these ones. And I touched it. These ones? Yeah. You had to have a juror go, I mean, it's possible.

And that's it. Anything's possible. Your case is fucked. You have nothing else to lean on. No. No one saw them together. No one know anything. So they were like, fuck, this is going to be a tough prosecution.

They didn't know what to do. fuck, this is going to be a tough prosecution. They didn't know what to do. Then on May 24th, 1995, out of the blue, out of the fucking blue sky, he just has his lawyer call up the cops or call up the DA and said, I want to plead guilty. I want to plead guilty of that murder. He doesn't even do it with a sentencing recommendation, nothing. Just, I'm pleading guilty, which is really weird that he did that.

And they were insanely surprised he told a placement counselor that he had uh that he had surprised the girl and killed her in her house by strangling her or maybe breaking her neck that's what he told him uh we'll talk more about it here and he um he goes court, pleads guilty, and he is sentenced to, you, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole. Life without, motherfucker. Interesting. So you figure out.

End of episode. Have a good one, everybody. That was a quick one. No, we are not even close. This is not even close. Did he think they're going to get me because my fingerprints there? He doesn't realize that there is there's no way they're getting him for that. No, that's what I mean.

He must think that there's something else there. And this is what the detective said. Quote, I think he was dodging the death penalty. We'd sent a detective to his hometown in Louisiana to do a background check. It turned out there was a girl who had lived next to him who was missing and a girl who lived on the other side of him who was found murdered. Uh oh. The cases had never been solved.

I don't think he wanted us looking into his past more than he already had. He was just like, nope, we're good. Just guilty and we'll call it a day and it's fine. And I killed a girl. Stop thinking about me. Terrible thing and let's all just move on. And you guys have lots of other things to dedicate your resources to, like, you know, all sorts of stuff. You don't need to worry about me terrible thing and let's all just move on and you guys have lots of other things to dedicate your resources to like you know all sorts of stuff you don't need to worry about me he doesn't realize that pleading guilty means now we're gonna look super hard at this man

yep it didn't work um so that's fucking wild man uh that is that is crazy it's fascinating how in 1998 what was it 98 95 95 yeah all those tv shows weren't on the air about how once they have a serial killer in jail or any kind of killer in jail they start looking at where they lived we know what you're good at he thought that they were gathering info for trial because they had to get his background if there's no trial they'll stop gathering background and that'll be that i don't know this will just go away and he can live his life and not have to worry about it so in prison yeah so um that is is interesting and then he said he took her body and dumped it in a remote location so robert's family's reaction here now brown's family his brother is a goddamn cop at the time he's a sheriff in fucking louisiana one of his

older brothers raymond he lives in idaho he said the family was stunned by the news stunned he said we are shocked we can't understand it in any way we were raised well our parents were great parents we know the difference between right and wrong and and we were taught that. Yeah. He said that his father and his brother worked in law enforcement, and neither one of them ever knew anything of Robert's crimes. He says, before any of these happened, my dad had already died. He died in July 74. All of these occurred after the fact, other than the one he said he did in South Korea, which is no proof of anything. Okay. So he's trying to say, like, hey, my dad wasn't some idiot.

Like, you know, he was dead before this was even happening. He wasn't some cop with a son killing people under his nose. When you do something professionally, when you get home, you don't do it. You don't do it. That's right. So a friend of his named Vicky Woods, who's a lifelong friend of his from his hometown, said she was stunned to hear these allegations. Yeah. She said, this is not a side of Robert I ever imagined.

Really? I hope not. Why would you be friends with him if you thought he was a murderer? She said he had her complete trust. She even let him babysit her preteen son and daughter in the 80s. Oh, boy. Letting this guy babysit. He married a 13-year-old.

Yeah, you better ask those kids some questions. Her children also went to Brown's Easter egg hunts and spent weekends at a trailer he owned near the town. I hope they're okay. Wow. She said, I'm so confused. I have no idea what's going on, except that I feel like I've lost a friend.

But people like this, though, he's not a snarling. There's not drool coming off his fangs or anything like that. This type of guy can be perfectly nice and perfectly reasonable and perfectly safe to people he's around. And look at Ted Bundy. He was pleasant as shit to that kid and that lady. Right. To the people that he's not sexually attracted to or. He doesn't want to kill.

Right. He doesn't want that at the moment. He is categorized. He's got kill people and then, you know, life people. Yeah. Those are different people. She said, quote, he was so protective of us. After one of the killings that we find out he did in kashada um he often insisted that women and children in

the neighborhood should stay indoors after dark so no one harms them okay he's very worried um the sheriff in louisiana said he was surprised at the disclosures in colorado he said quote you just don't think in a small community like this that someone would go on and do something like that. That would come from here. God forbid. He said, this is the other sheriff. This is in El Paso County. He said, Robert is what I would consider a very intelligent individual.

He knew exactly what he was doing. And also agreeing with that was the former FBI agent who later on will be the investigator who cracks this whole thing. He says he was always polite. He's always respectful. He has a high IQ. So we're not dealing with with Stephen Avery here. This is a this is a very dangerous person. Yeah.

A very dangerous person. Calculating. Yeah. He can he can help focused. Yeah. That's the thing. He is not one of these guys. It's like, oh, he couldn't help it.

He saw some woman and had to drag her into an alley and rape her. He's just one of these crazy, drooling maniacs. He would go, well, can't rape her now because she's out in front and people will see it. But I'll find out where she lives and rape her later. That's the type of guy he is. What year did he move to Colorado? In the 80s? Yeah, in the 80s.

Oh, my. I was living there. That's what I mean. He was working a quick stop in 87. You guys stopping by for some gas? March 30th, 2000. So he's been in prison for five years now. He starts sending letters to district attorney offices at that point. What for? Well, a couple of days after the fifth anniversary of his arrest, he sent a four-line, pretty cryptic poem to the fourth judicial district attorney in Colorado Springs. And this is the whole letter.

In the murky placid depths beneath the cool caressing mire lies seven golden opportunities. Missed opportunities? Question mark. And then it said lovingly Robert Brown. What does that mean? It's a fucking poem of there's more bodies out there. That's what he's fucking around. Oh, golden opportunities for you to arrest me maybe?

Yeah. Seven golden opportunities beneath the cool caressing mire. So he's saying in the water somewhere. In the water somewhere, yeah. There's seven bodies you can get. Where do they bury them? Yep, it was addressed to whom it may concern. And it'll later on say that he'll indicate.

We'll talk about another letter that he has here. Another letter talks about the seven sacred virgins entombed side by side those less worthy are scattered wide so now he's got a poem here and telling you there's so many more he said the score is you won the other team 48 oh boy if you were to drive to the end zone in a white trans am the score could be 9 to 48. That would complete your home court sphere. What's the fuck with the Trans Am? I don't know.

Well, we'll talk because there's a Trans Am that was stolen, and we'll talk about that. But he's saying he killed 48 people. Yeah. Saying, you got one, I got 48. So, what's up, bitches? There's more nearby. Yeah. He also includes a map, I got 48. So what's up, bitches? There's eight more nearby. Yeah. He also includes a map which was traced from an atlas.

So to make it accurate. It's real, yeah. The map showed outlines of the states of Colorado, Washington, California, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Mississippi. Oh, my God. This is insane. The whole south and then up the West Coast. He wrote a number inside the outline of each respective state that totals 48. So I killed this many in this state.

I killed that many in that state. And he also closed the letter by demanding that he not be contacted. Never talk to me again. Cryptic shit. 48 to 1, seven sacred virgins entombed and this and all this shit, and then was like, don't ask me about it. Never call me back. Yeah.

He put like a fucking post on social media saying, you know, something crazy is happening, but I don't want to talk about it. And then was like, mind your business. That's insane never trust no bitches what is this dude i don't put my dirty laundry on facebook i just my favorite thing by the way on facebook is when married people first break up and then and one of them will talk shit while they're still friends with the other on facebook and then they respond to it i just saw that two days ago and I was like, oh my God.

You saw that? I was like, oh my God. The person was like, you really want to do this right now? And I said in response, I was like, oh, I do. I hope you do. I absolutely want you to do this right now. Please, let's get into this right here in the fucking comments. You have no idea how dragging that post how many times i drugged

update motherfucker respond out call her a bitch come on i want her to fucking say all the shit you did do it do it you son of a let's hear it holy shit man yeah that that baiting for sympathy and then uh and then getting slammed in the dick is pretty awesome that's good shit and when you tell a da you've killed 50 people they're curious usually they tend to yeah they tend to come back yeah they're going to talk about that so oh my god the detectives and in Colorado and investigators from the DA's office worked to establish the validity of his claims. They checked missing person cases and all that sort of thing. They're trying to figure out the seven sacred virgins deal. Don't know what that's about.

But he would not. They couldn't figure anything out because it's not specific enough. And then his letters stopped coming. so he wouldn't fucking do that. So spring of 2001, there's a couple of guys looking over cold cases here. This is John Anderson and Scott Fisher. Fisher just retired from his job as the publisher of the Colorado Springs Gazette, so the newspaper here. as the publisher of the Colorado Springs Gazette,

so the newspaper here. No law enforcement background, but he used to actually be a photographer for homicide scenes for the local sheriff's office, so he would be the crime scene photographer, which is a horrible job. Jesus Christ. No one's ever going to go, wow, that's beautiful, man, great picture.

No one's ever going to say that. No, nobody's ever going to say you really captured it. The best you're going to get is, oh, Jesus jesus that means you really you're a great photographer yeah oh if somebody throws up looking at your photo you've done great you're like man i had it in perfect focus that's right you smile you're like thank you thank you very much so um yeah if somebody goes home and kisses their children you've done it you've done it did it all you win so fisher's good with a computer after seven months with these other two investigators smit who's the actual detective and hess who's a a retired FBI guy and also CIA shit he did.

He was involved in the Operation Phoenix or Project Phoenix thing in Vietnam, which is extremely controversial. You have a book about it. It's pretty fucked up. So anyway, that's what he did. And this Fisher was inspired to enroll in the county's reserve officer program and attend the training academy and um within a couple of years they were that he had like categorized el paso county uh cold cases on computer disks that could be searched very easily yeah and in late 2002 they were all sitting around going what do we do now and hess said have you ever, Hess is a guy who's a retired FBI agent.

Right. He said, have you ever worked a case where you thought the guy was a serial killer? And Smit, who's the guy who was assigned by that sheriff who got elected to look into all this shit, he said, you know, I think I have. So they said, who? He said, Robert Brown. And Hess. Samesies.

Samesies. Yeah, he didn't know him, actually, so he said, you think I might write to him, and that's how this started, was you think I might write to him. There's a weird thing where he'll say,

Brown from prison will say, I don't want to talk to anybody, but you can write me a letter, and I'll write it back, but you can't come visit me. This is his whole thing, so I won't talk if't come visit me. Okay. This is all thing. So I won't talk if you come visit me. Because some people will say so much more in writing.

They'll say, and then it's in writing, which also is better than it's better than someone's word. Solid word. They said that. So it's very, very interesting here. So he said, Hess, you know, didn't know how to approach this. He said, you put your cards on the table. You tell the person who you are, what your background is, what you want, and you end up with some subjunctive thing like perhaps we can be of mutual benefit to each other. And he said if you get a reply, you improvise from there.

That's how he usually approaches these people. So from the case files, he learned that Brown learned about his whole history and everything else. They said he's got a definite antipathy toward women, it seems like here, to put it mildly. So May 2nd, 2002, the El Paso County Sheriff's Office Investigations Division receives a letter from Brown again. He writes, this letter is a hypothetical question. This is just purely just hypothetical question. This is just purely just hypothetical here. This has nothing to do with reality.

Quote, if a person were to identify a murder which occurred in El Paso County, Colorado, then pled guilty to this murder in exchange for a sentence of death and asked that the sentence be carried out as quickly as possible,

how long would it take for the execution to take place? How quickly can I get you to kill me is what he just said. Let's say I admit to something. How fast? Hey, Alexa. Yeah. How fast?

And he said, please answer me by mail and do not visit me. Okay. Okay. So we will not talk in person. Refused in May of 2002. Refused later on. Refused a face-to-face interview with Agent Hess.

Agreed to correspond through letters. September of 2002 is when he's going to get some definite clues from him here okay now march 9th 2002 here here's investigator charles hess here's he that's when he got involved with him with it by may he's receiving these letters about i don't want to talk back you know face to face and all that sort of thing he said that he might be willing to correspond on matters that interest Hess. Brown wrote that his quote perception, accurate or distorted will have a great bearing on the amount and what I will share. Oh, so how I feel about you is going to be,

whether I tell you shit or not. So Hess replied to his letter and wrote that he, and observed that it appeared that he wished to provide details by virtue of information. So Hess wrote, I feel you do have a desire to clear up some pending matters.

I, of course, have no ideas as to your goals. And Hess makes a point to say how he approaches this. He says pendingending matters. Doesn't say murders, killings, stabbings. He never uses those words.

Those are the clam up words for guys like this. All those words imply charges. Those are accusatory words. You'll notice a murderer when they're talking, before they admit to it, if they killed their wife, they'll be like, I would never hurt my wife.

It's not I wouldn't kill my wife. They minimize it, too. So on July 26, 2002, Hess receives a letter from Robert Brown and he wrote, quote, I must say this is Robert Brown. I am dumbfounded. A lot of rural Louisiana swamp people using dumbfounded in their letters. I must say, this sounds like it's from a British member of parliament. I must say I am dumbfounded. I'm gobsmacked.

I am flabbergasted. Yeah. That with the plethora of information provided, someone hasn't deciphered such a simple and obvious message. I can only infer that to this point, and he's using correct commas and everything. He said infer to this point? I can only infer that, comma,

to this point, comma, no one has truly harbored a desire to do so. Does this clarify matters? And then he writes, location, murky Plaza depth, cool, caressing Meyer amount,

seven instructions, drain slash dig accomplice, high priestess. Who the fuck knows who that is? Yeah. Motive say, uh, sacred virgins, less worthy scattered.

Okay. So he's like these, I get you you you need it broken in bullet points was my poetic prose yeah yeah too fucking complicated for you then he does literally location colon this amount colon that yeah are you stupid you must be stupider than so much information yeah he said something that else that might be of interest to you. Hypothetically, if individuals were held in a concealed chamber and their caretaker was incarcerated, thereby causing these individuals to succumb over time. Oh, would the caretaker be considered guilty of murder, even though their deaths were a direct result of actions taken by law enforcement officials did i do it or did you i suppose three should be added to the nine robert brown okay so he's saying if that's true then there's three more dead people that you can add on there technically then that would be my fault there's no food or water for them so we

don't know if that he's been arrested and incarcerated several times. So we have no idea over a 30 year period. So we have no idea which time he's talking about or any of that shit. So Hess wrote in a reply. He said, I believe you're trying to reach out to us. And believe me, we're trying to reach out to you. So that's that was his response to that. Like, it sounds like you really want to talk. Like, let's talk talk i'm ready okay i don't like the way he's wording these things has

yeah he's trying to keep it real casual not spooking basically you're trying not to spook a deer right now sure yeah you know any if you turn and go hey isn't that great he's gonna fucking run into the forest so you got to be like it seems like maybe you'd like to talk to us would you like would you like a salt lick come here that's it and it's all of the balls all in his court because he's got nothing they have nothing to yeah they have nothing to to offer him there's no carrot to offer he's in jail life without parole what are you gonna fucking help him with you know there's really nothing you can do we'll get you extra honey buns and ramen noodles i don't know what are you trying to tell us and why what do do you want? That's what I mean.

So then Hess receives another letter from Brown in September of 2002. Brown closed the letter and signed his name. Then he wrote, P.S. December or January 1987 or 88, about then maybe, question mark, White Grand Dam, Colorado Springs. So that would be a Pontiac Grand Dam. So they completed, investigators did a search of records for the Colorado Springs Police Department and the El Paso County Sheriff's Office. They were unable to locate any information in regards to a missing person involving a White Grand Dam.

So in November of 2002, Hess writes to Brown, and he says, quote, He said, I wonder why you feel it's necessary to write in enigmatic terms. After all, you were the one to initiate communications back in 2000. So now he's got a little more rapport. Like fucking Mark Twain and just say who, what, when, why, where. Tell me what the fuck you did.

Journalism. You seem to know stuff, so do that. He then also said, he said, then in another letter he sent back, Brown said that he asked Hess if he would like to hear the beginning of a possible story. And it said the title is How to Create a Dot, Dot, Dot. Okay. You motherfucker. Start your podcast. Let's go.

What's following that, he says this okay quote this is his his disclosures here okay this is brown how old am i three maybe what am i feeling safe secure warm loved with a sense of belonging all these feelings are about to end, never to be again. I hear my mother say, don't tell him. Don't tell me what. One of my brothers runs in and says, they're coming to take your bed. Ha ha. I run and climb into my crib. I'm thinking they can't take my bed. This is my place. They can't take it. Someone, I can't remember who, took me out of the crib. I'm screaming and crying. Then they take my crib and put it in the back of a black pickup truck and drive away. I run back to where the crib was and curl into a ball and cry and cry and cry.

Now it's night and it's time for bed. My mother takes me into a strange room. There are two beds in this room. There are two older boys in each bed. Where am I going to sleep? She puts me in one of the beds in this room. There are two older boys in each bed. Where am I going to sleep? She puts me in one of the bed between two boys. As soon as she leaves, the boys start hitting me and telling me to get out of their bed. I start crying. Each night I'm put in one of the two beds. This nightly ritual goes on and on and on, night after night after night. What a wonderful

childhood I have. This is just the beginning of the endless joys of my childhood. So that's what he... Mom sold his bed. Either got it repossessed or he was too old for the crib, so they got rid of it. Right. Which is what people do. To go sleep with the boys.

Either way, this is a 40-something-year-old man who's married children and fucking fought in a war yeah done all this shit and this is what he's saying he's having this all he wants is a crib i just want my my fucking binky like what the fuck is wrong with him like i want my crib and my stuffed animal wow so it's my teddy really fucking weird here that's all'll say, but that's opening up at something at least. So the fifth letter in September, 2002 is that's the one has began to feel like he had an idea of what's going on here.

And he was developing some synchronicities with him and maybe he'd be able to get some confirmable facts. Yeah. So Brown now in his letters, he salutes, he says hi to Hess. He says, hello,

Charlie, Charlie Hess. That's how he opens his letters, he salutes, he says hi to Hess. He says, hello, Charlie Hess. That's how he opens his letters. So he said, okay. And Hess said he started calling him Robert and all that kind of thing. But he was also very frustrated with Brown because he was saying that the Pontiac Trans Am, now he's calling it a Grand Am. Yeah. And it's a different entire car.

Totally different. Yeah, and it's a different entire car. Totally different. And he said he also would repeat allusions to a high priestess all the time that he said Hess would pour over literature of tarot cards and hunting in the Bible trying to find what he's talking about. Basically, what is he referencing here? He wrote, Robert, are we talking about a real person or is the high priestess allegorical? So is this in your head or sacrificing to or is there a high priestess with me all the time? And people say, I walk with Jesus. Is this your your high priestess? I continue to feel you're trying to provide me with specifics. But for some reason, we don't ever get over the last hurdle.

So, yeah, he's about now. Hess is about to get a hip replacement. He's 75 years old, by the way. Oh, Jesus. And he said that he felt like he'd earned some trust, so he challenged Brown to explain himself, and he said, why don't you just consider laying out one verifiable instance? If this is just a game, tell me and we can continue to correspond and exchange

philosophies i'm fine with that sure sure but do i need to actually look for bodies here right so uh he said that charlie intentionally told the truth and risked inflaming the situation it was his put up or shut up letter has said has was like this is my he's either gonna fucking tell me something or he's gonna stop now because give me something or give me nothing i'm tired of reading your shit i don't care about your crib i don't care about your poetry fuck off so nothing really had work then six weeks later he uh he wrote a letter back brown does saying he was relieved to have heard that hess made it through his operation and you know wished him well with his hip and all that sort of thing.

Then he revived his complaint, saying he'd been framed by a planted fingerprint in the Heather Church murder. He said, that was not my fingerprint. To this day, he says it's not his fingerprint. Really? He said that was a lie. Or at least he didn't put it there. Somebody else did.

Yeah, that's the thing. He said that he would mock Hess's occasional use of first-person plural. He said, I will not hand it to us on a golden platter with nothing to gain for my efforts. What could I possibly gain eludes me for now? Because Hess kept saying, help us, like in terms of me and you are an us. And he's like, I'm an I, and you're, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Yeah. So December 16th, 2002, Hess receives a letter from Robert Brown.

And in it, he says, Brown wrote, quote, in a previous letter, you said you give us too much credit. I beg to differ. There was at least one case handled by, quote, us, meaning the police, where evidence was found where none existed. With police work like that, one cannot give, again, us too much credit. It seems that where legitimate information has been provided on several cases, us should have no problem completing the puzzle if us has any real desire to do so. Get to work, us. Yeah. What do you want from me?

I will not hand it to us on a golden platter with nothing to gain for my efforts. What I could possibly gain eludes me for now. There are eight other states that may be interested. Colorado only has nine points of interest. Louisiana has 17. Yeah. The food in Louisiana prisons is far superior. She's like, I'd rather go there.

That's some fucking gumbo. There are also states with mutual interest in many of the Colorado 12. Dispatch and disposal may have taken place in Colorado, but procurement may have taken place elsewhere with procurement in play. The number of states that may be interested more than doubles till then, Robert. Yeah. So they're like,

fuck Jesus Christ. So then they're like, now we got to worry about other States that have had people kidnap. So maybe we're looking for cases that don't exist. Maybe the Trans Am is in fucking Kansas. Yeah. So they said his original map featured nine States and his latest statement suggested that they came from nine or more other states. So Hess writes another letter back in January and he says, I do not believe I would put the details on a gold platter without first receiving assurances that you consider important.

On the other hand, it makes me wonder why you wrote in the first place. You must have been moved by something. He said, when I tried to answer this question, some of the following came to mind. One, you're angry at the outcome of your case and want to put those who work the case through frustrating and maddening scenarios. You're breaking balls. Yeah. Two, that by using a large number of victims, you could heighten the level of interest three that in reality there are no unsolved cases but you receive satisfaction in the consternation which

would arise four that there are other cases out there that you truly wish to set straight and five due to the lassitude of incarceration you keep your mind alert via this correspondence so robert where do we go from here? Uh-huh. Who the fuck are you and what are you doing? So he responds, Brown responds, and he said, you were wondering why I wrote in the first place. I don't know that I could answer that to your satisfaction. I'm not even sure that I know. There was probably a conglomeration of reasons, and I was simply exploring possibilities.

What my thoughts were at the time, I do not recall. As I stated earlier in this letter, I'm trying to get my affairs in order. To do so, I need to contact many sources of which I don't even know who they are. Okay, so then he signed his name and also printed it and all that kind of thing. He also, they also, the detectives noticed that his envelopes always include a return address, but this is the first time that he had printed it on the letter. He printed his return address. So they said that means that he must want us to write back right away. So Hess wrote back and he said, Robert, what is your suggestion as to how do we obtain something tangible that will give us what we need to influence them that there are really cases out there?

Now, I'm on your side. How do I get these cops don't believe you? How do I get them to believe you, Robert? I believe you. I'm on your team. He said it was premature to pose the following questions, but it appears that the situation now makes it prudent for you to consider such things. One, what do you expect as an ultimate outcome? Two, as to the other states, what do you expect us to do and what are your expectations? Three, are you willing to just lay it all out

there and let the chips fall where they may? So he said this would be the most expedient way of getting things rolling. There's probably a dozen or so other points you want to ponder that would help facilitate matters if you could give us some direction. So he responds, Robert Brown, as far as something tangible, I will convince someone that there are really cases out there. I tried before with the White Grand Dam. I guess some cases, and then he writes in parentheses, people don't rate. They weren't important enough for you, those people. Also, the sanitation companies do a great job of disposal. Yeah.

Cash cans, yeah. He said, again, I'm exhausted. Till next time, Robert Brown. So then he writes another letter back, Robert Brown. I thought I would throw a couple things your way in hopes of adding credence to the whole shebang. Shebang. Yeah. He used shebang. The first

is just in addition to what I was It's just very cavalier. He acts like he's planning a birthday party. Let's talk about what kind of food we're going to have at this shebang. He said in addition to what has already been said about the White Grand Am, okay,

I find it, I tend to believe you are just fishing for more in hopes of me hanging myself. Here goes. Try the missing persons files on a young army wife. I know the report was filed. The husband was very unhappy with the police response. He was even more unhappy with the police response when him, he himself recovered the quote missing grand dam. If that doesn't ring any bells, then nothing will. He's like, I'm giving you everything here.

Yeah. Yeah. Then he went on to this. He said, in addition to bolstering credence, I'm mainly curious of the outcome of the following. I thought long and hard about picking an incident that would not be lost among the many others. A very small town seemed to be my best bet.

Small towns don't forget such rare happenings. True. Hey, there you go. This guy just said, you know, that's a good idea for a podcast, actually. He said, the town I chose is Flatonia, Texas. Flatonia. Yeah, they don't get much smaller. The year was approximately 1984 or 85.

A young woman was killed and her body was found near this town. The last I heard was that her husband was being charged with the murder. I am curious as to the eventual outcome. Please let me know. Afterward, we may talk some more on this. Texas does like to kill people. That should give you something to think about. Oh, I can maybe go there.

Yeah, they'll put me in the chair. Fuck it. So, Lou Smit, who's that original investigator who started this whole thing, he learned from a phone call from Fayette County, Texas, that the death of a 22-year-old waitress named Melody Ann Bush fit Brown's descriptions. She had an argument in a bar with her husband the night she died. Her body was found in a culvert about two miles north of Flatonia, March 30th, 1984.

The coroner estimated she'd been dead five days. The cause of death was acute acetone poisoning. What? Oh. Poisoning. Like fucking, like chloroform. dead five days the cause of death was acute acetone poisoning what oh poisoning fucking like chloroform like chloroform or ant spray in this particular case really yeah so let's talk about some others here this is about a woman named ro-O. She's not from this country. So Rocio Chilla Del Pilar Sperry is her married name. S-P-E-R-R-Y. So Rocio Sperry. Now, this is a letter that, this is all about this.

On April 9th, 2003, Hess writes Brown a letter saying he's still working on the White Grand Am case. And he wrote that he would have to review the Colorado Springs Police Department case files regarding missing persons. So May of 2003, Hess writes to Brown and told him he'd received information from an Eastern United States police agency regarding an unsolved homicide occurring in 87 or 88. He said the case concerned a female who went missing in Colorado Springs, and he said that the facts didn't seem to fit this case, but the report did mention a white Grand Am.

So clarify. He asked Brown if this could be the case he had previously referred, and he asked Brown if he knew the victim's occupation at the time of her disappearance. Brown wrote back, as far as the White Grand Am case goes, if any facts conflict with the information I provided, then you must be looking at two separate cases. So he writes this in this letter. He wrote a letter in which he invited Hess on a hypothetical trip. All right.

Yeah. So this is all sorts of details here. He described it as a journey through several states and described the murders here. The letter said this, quote, We started out in Colorado Springs. And this regarded the woman who became known as Grand Am Lady here. From there, we went to Flatonia. That's the Melody here. From there, we went to Flatonia. That's the Melody Bush. From there, we went to Houston. He talks about killing someone there.

Let's continue east on Interstate 10. New Orleans was very fertile grounds. Let's go back to 1975 or 79 approximately. Left inside a room inside a Holiday Inn about five minutes from the French Quarter, this lady claimed to be from South Philadelphia. Yeah. He's saying another murder there. Yeah. Let's continue east along I-10. We're in Mississippi now, but just barely. We are very near the Alabama border.

There is a swampy area just north of the interstate. There, two bodies were dumped in part and parts for ease of transport. They were dumped in parts. So dismembered first. Both of these were male. I made a point of stating that they were male. So you couldn't dismiss the incident. It was around 1980. Then he said, let's move north now. How about Arkansas? This is just across the Mississippi River from Memphis. There's a marshy area a little southwest of there. That is where this lady was laid to rest, also 1980. Okay, think about where this is, by the way.

That is exactly in the same spot as the West Memphis Three. That's why it was so ridiculous to assume it had to be local people when, if you've ever driven driven by there that fucking town is a blip on the 40 yeah you know what i mean someone could easily do something there hop back on the 40 and be so far gone by the time anybody notices or even worse dude uh west memphis is i mean it's it's basically it's part of memphis it's just on the other side of the border that person could have bopped right back over the border and been an employee back at whatever business in Memphis he works at. No fucking idea. So he said there's a little marshy area a little southwest of there.

That is where this lady was laid to rest. Also 1980. Now let's go west to Tulsa, Oklahoma. What is that? Just southeast of there along the south side of the Arkansas River, is a floodplain. Lots of water grasses. There's also a male in the muck. This was in 1985.

Let's go northwest. Way northwest. Washington State is our next stop. It's a murder tour. Yeah. This is lovely. On the north side of the east-west interstate, I believe it was Interstate 96, is a scenic overlook. This is an extreme drop-off over huge boulders.

There's a mountain range to the north. The lady that was dropped over the precipice would probably never be found due to the terrain unless there was an intentional search of the area. This was 1986. Yeah. Let's go south now. Colorado, California. We're in California. We're on the Pacific Coast Highway, about 200 miles north of San Francisco,

approximately. There's an exit to a sandy beach where there are areas with lots of driftwood among boulders to the north side. Among these boulders and driftwood are two bodies, one male, one female. This was 1986. Let's go east now.

He said, we're in northwest New Mexico. I'm on an east-west highway, the number I don't remember. Probably the 40, I was going to say. However, the north of another scenic overlook is tremendous rock face gray in color. It can't be missed. Once again, there's a body over the precipice. This one was male. This was 1993.

So this is a lot here, obviously. So they start looking into this shit. In July, they travel to Mississippi, and that's where they meet with Joseph Sperry, the husband of Rocio Sperry. And Sperry told the cops that in 1987, he was stationed at Fort Carlson. And two weeks after arriving at Fort Carson, or Carson, not Carlson, he rented an apartment for himself in Rocio. He said the apartment was located at 4410 East Pikes Peak Avenue in Colorado Springs, apartment 109.

Sperry said he moved into the apartment on East Pikes Peak Avenue, uh, in August 6th, 1987. He said two to three weeks later, later Rocio and their infant daughter, Amy joined them, joined him there.

He said that after Rocio arrived, he purchased a 1987 Pontiac Grand Am. Oh, boy. Mr. Sperry said his mother, Amy Charity, paid for the vehicle. That is Charity. She lived up to her name. That's true. Not bad.

He said his neighbor, George Gonzalez, told him Rocio was leaving their baby, Amy, alone in the apartment by herself for hours while he was at work. She wasn't watching the baby. I think Rocio is 15, by the way. She's already a child bride here. So, yeah. So Mr. Sperry said he spoke with his supervisor at Fort Carson about Rocio leaving the baby alone. Mr. Sperry said it had been determined that it would be best to take Amy to West Palm Beach, Florida to live with his mother who could properly care for the baby. So he's saying he's going to take the baby away.

Mr. Sperry said that she agreed. Oh. Rocio, she agreed to it. And he said that he and Amy flew to Florida from Stapleton International Airport on November 1st, 1987. He arrived in Florida and spoke with Rocio on the telephone as many as three times per day. The evening hours of November 9th, 1987, he said he got a phone call from Rocio while he was at his mother's residence. He said that she told him that she was at another soldier's apartment who was from Shreveport, Louisiana. Mr. Sperry said he asked her why she was there

and that she needed to leave and go home, and she said that, okay, I will, and that she missed him and loved him. Miss you, love you. So he says that on November 10th at 7 a.m., he called their apartment to talk to Rocio, and she told him she had a surprise for him when he arrived home, something his mother had sent to her. He repeated that Rocio told him that she missed and loved him and he said that

he'd call her at about 5 p.m. So at about 5 p.m. he called and there was no answer. He continued to call throughout the evening and got no answer. So he kept calling until he left Florida to return to Colorado Springs four days later. Never talked to her again. He said he got to Stapleton International Airport at 10 p.m. He said that Rocio, he had heard Rocio and their next

door neighbor, George Gonzalez, were not there to meet him as planned. They were supposed to pick him up at the airport. He said that when he called Gonzalez, Gonzalez told him he hadn't seen Rocio for three or four days and that his granddad is gone. Oh, so I don't know. Gonzalez agreed. He goes, I'll come get you now if you want.

So he said, sure, fucking come get me. This guy, Sperry, does not arrive at his apartment until 6 a.m. Jesus. Yeah, because he's also got to drive from Denver to Colorado Springs on top of it. Yeah. He walked in and found his apartment was completely fucked up, ransacked. Trash. Photographs

of Rocio and Amy were found on the kitchen table. He entered their bedroom and found Rocio's clothing was not in the dresser drawer, but rather in a bag inside of the closet. Which was weird. He spary found Rocio's purse complaining her,

or containing her identification and passport that was still in the apartment. Okay. He also said his Sony television was missing from the living room. So she took the TV and left her wallet? Left her wallet and all of her clothes. She's like, all I need is this TV and this remote control. Yeah.

What about his paddle ball? Then this paddle ball. He spoke with one of the security officers and asked if he had seen Rocio, and they said no. So he showed, you know, they talked about photographs and all that sort of thing. And Sperry had, they showed Sperry two different photographs of Robert Brown later on here. In one, he had a beard. In the other, he didn't have a beard. And this guy said, never saw this guy before.

Don't know him. Don't know him. So September 9, 2003, at 9 a.m., Hess travels to the Colorado State Penitentiary to visit with Robert Brown. He makes the arrangements. Brown agrees to it. And they bring him in here. He comes in and restraints

and everything else. Hess says, can you please remove the restraints? But the corrections officers would not remove his restraints. It's a dear 75-year-old man with a bad hip. We're not taking the fucking restraints off this guy. Let's not wear that thing out already. Yep, but he was left

alone in the room with Brown. He said, well, at least leave us alone. So Brown says in the 80s when he was living in Colorado Springs, he killed a young woman who lived in an apartment complex across the street from his own apartment complex.

This was the woman who was associated with the Grand Am. He said that he had claimed he had not received adequate treatment from the Department of Corrections. And that was interesting. They don't treat me right in here. So Hess said that he's not going to give any more specifics about – Brown told him, I won't give you any more specifics until you make it better in here for me. Yeah.

Because it's not good. This is like prison for me. Yeah. Because it's not good. This is like prison or something. Yeah. So February 23, 2005, Hess shows him some pictures, shows Brown pictures of the apartment complex here. Brown looked at the photographs, pointed to a building in the photograph, later identified as 4410 Pikes Peak Avenue. The apartment complex is currently named The Viewpoint.

Brown pointed out that the Quick Stop convenience store where he used to work was located at the north of the Grand Am Lady's apartment complex. Oh. So that's where he worked. He said he walked to the north side of the building down three or four doors on the first level. Those apartments were 108, 109, or 7108, 109. Those apartments were 108, 109, or 7108, 109. He said the Grand Am lady lived in one of those apartments. And so they said that he had stated an earlier, Brown stated that Grand Am lady, Rocio's husband and her husband would come into the convenience store where he worked and rent videos and video players. This was when you'd still the vcr wow you could rent the whole thing the whole thing so hess asked brown how many times he had been at their residence and he replied once and they said did you know how to get to

this woman's apartment and he said that the woman had come into the convenience store that day and had agreed to go out on a date and gave him her address. Brown said that her husband was gone and had taken their baby to one of two places, Miami or New Orleans, he couldn't remember. But we know it was Florida. So Brown said, so she definitely told him about that stuff. That's a fact, because otherwise he would have no way of knowing that.

So Brown said that he thought they were from one of those two places originally. He said that he and the Grand Am lady went to a movie together, went out on a date. Wow. He said they went in her vehicle, a white Pontiac Grand Am, then returned to his apartment after the movie. So they said, do you know her name? And Brown said, I got a thing about names. I can't remember them.

Not good with names. Not good with names. Better with, like, body locations, like areas of muck. Yeah. Yeah, there. He said that after arriving at his apartment, he strangled her. And they said, well, where did you keep her in the apartment? And he says he left her on the floor to one side of the room where he had all of his blankets and threw blankets over her.

He said, you couldn't tell anyone was there. And they said, well, did you dismember her that night? And he said, no, he was tired and didn't do it that night. He just left her there. Covered her with blankets, took her keys, and drove the car to her apartment complex parking in the lot. He entered her apartment. He noted the kitchen was on the right of the entryway and her apartment complex parking in the lot. He entered her apartment. He noted the kitchen was on the right of the entryway and the living room was to the left.

He looked around the apartment for items of value, found nothing that was great. He did see a very newish 19-inch Sony color television, which was hot shit back then. Sure enough. He took the TV as he was leaving and was confronted by a security guard for the apartment complex. Oh. The security guard asked him if the television was his, and he replied, yes, and then went to the car. The security guard went, oh, okay, good, then carry on. Well, thank God.

Hey, is that yours? Yeah? All right. All right, I got to go. I got to go then. So that is fucking amazing. He said that he dismembered Rocio the next evening after he returned home from work. So he did a shift at the quick stop.

He's like, I got a busy night ahead of me. He said he put her in the bathtub and dismembered her. Good Lord. He said he, quote, just reached in and did his thing. His thing. That's my thing that I do. He described how he severed her at the joints, quote,

just popping them, popping them and taking the body apart. He said there was only a small amount of blood and it stayed in the bathtub. He said he placed the body parts piece by piece into trash bags, then took them out to the dumpster behind the apartment. Just threw her out in the dumpster. Yep, he said the tub itself was the only thing that needed to be cleaned. He said he did take a ring from the victim.

He described it as a big cluster ring with a lot of small diamonds. He gave the ring to Jan Osgood, a former girlfriend who sold it for him. He said that at the time, the TV, on the other hand, he and his wife, Diane, just kept the TV. They kept the TV and his wife still had the TV after he was arrested in 95. He's like, that TV is still there if you're looking for it. I can prove I got it. Wow.

He then drove the victim's vehicle for a couple of days, then parked it in the lot of the Dovetree Apartments at 335 North Murray Boulevard, which was directly south of the quick stop. So he just parked it across the street. He knew that the victim's husband would find it there. That's why he put it there. He's like, he'll find it. He said he, that when the victim's husband returned, he came into the Quick Stop store and used the pay phone to notify the police that his wife was missing as well as his 87 white granddad. And he just sat there ringing people up. Five on three, you got it. Yep, that is fucking wild, man.

I don't even. Wow. So March 22nd and approximately 1005, they contact Osgood, the girlfriend. See if she can get a little. Yeah. And she did remember receiving a ring from Robert. She described the ring as a wedding set, which consisted of two rings soldered together. She gave the set to her daughter, Cammymy fine when cammy was married in 2000 ew what no fucking dead teenager's wedding ring on holy shit she said she didn't know if her daughter still had it or not oh my god so they call the daughter and she said she was not aware

that robert brown gave her mother a ring but did recall receiving a ring from her mother as a wedding gift. She said she had since taken the ring to a jeweler and had the diamonds removed. She said that she had a new wedding ring set made from the diamonds. And she said she still does have the ring itself, though. And she said that she would give you the ring to assist in the investigation. You can have the ring. I'm keeping the diamonds. Jesus.

So Jan Osgood said when she met Robert Brown, he told her his apartment was not ready to be moved into. So she said she invited him to stay with her until his apartment was ready. She said that Brown stayed with her for approximately nine months. Oh, my God. Holy. Should they be building it by hand? One guy, nine months for an apartment? Osgood was asked if brown ever taken him to

taking her to his apartment and she said that she believed after he moved in with her he gave up his own apartment so he just moved in with her he just said i get my apartment's almost ready then just moved in with her and never left and never waited yeah brown described the ring he had given her as gaudy and she said as best she could recall, she gave it to her daughter. She doesn't know. So, wow. She says she does recall taking two trips with Robert Brown. The first trip was during the summer of 87 when he wanted to go fishing in Nebraska. She said the two of them left her residence around 5 p.m. and driving her car, a light blue Ford Taurus. They drove approximately five hours to a lake in Nebraska just across the Colorado border.

She didn't remember the name of the lake. She said she remained in the car and slept when they got there. And she said that he was, quote, gone all night fishing while she slept in the car. She was asked if she ever saw Brown with any fishing equipment or fish when he returned to the vehicle, and she said she doesn't think so. We're going to go to this lake far away where I'm going to fish all night with no poles and I won't catch anything. No boat, no poles.

No boat, no poles, no tackle box, no lures, no fucking night. Just stop for night crawlers. Help us out here. Like he's going to go noodle and just struck out. And another fishing trip was to Grand Prairie, Texas, summer of 87. Again, she said they drove all night, arrived around 11 p.m. in Grand Prairie. She said when they arrived, he parked his car in front of some new homes. She said that Brown then met an unknown friend.

The two men left together and she remained in the car what why is she she is the worst fishing companion on the planet that she's terrible she just sleeps in the car you want to go fishing i mean i want a nap so same shit right rides what are you fucking german shepherd yeah i like to take naps and take rides in the car. It's a toddler. So they said that he went and talked to an unknown friend. She said the two men left together. She remained in the car. She said at approximately 3 p.m. she walked across the street from where they were parked to a restaurant. She said at about 3.30, Brown returned to the restaurant by himself without this other friend.

He was pissed off at her because she wasn't in the car and ordered her to go get back to the car she did they went back to colorado um she said that he asked her about does he have firearms and he she said he had taken her shooting and they shot at cans and bottles they were shooting rifles and handguns but she doesn't know shit about them they asked about does he did he own a property off teller highway one in teller county colorado she said she visited the property with him on a couple of occasions she said he completed some measurements on the property not telling her what he wanted to build but spoke of liking underground houses oh boy dude this he wants

to be hh homes i feel, I feel like. Yeah. They said she didn't know if he ever actually built anything. He said that he was never abusive toward her, but he did scare her one time when he beat up her ex-boyfriend, Rick. Oh, really? Yeah, he beat Rick up, so that scared her. She explained that on one occasion when she and Brown were dating, they returned to her residence and Rick was there. She said Robert pulled Rick out of the window of his truck and beat the shit out of him. He pulled him out like somebody trying to pull some sovereign citizen bullshit on highway patrol.

Pulled him out and whooped his fucking ass in the street. Wow. They said, did he used to disappear for long periods of time and she said well he would leave sometimes overnight and when he returned he would tell her that he was employed by a motel or a hospital folding laundry that's what i did all night i work at a i do hospital laundry i pulled linens for several hours she said that sometimes he would leave for days at a time and not tell her where he'd been. He'd just show up and be like, yeah, I was gone. Wow, just so much.

You don't understand. They changed it all. They said, did he ever tell you about hurting or killing someone? And she said that he told her that he worked on a shrimp boat, and one time he found someone dead on the boat, and that was that. So, no. Then they they said what about sexual behaviors what's the sex sex stuff like she said that he watches a lot of porn yeah which is to be expected here she said he liked to tie her up and act like he was the master and she was a slave yeah domination yep she said that he would blindfold her but never used any type of ligatures. She recalled him telling her that she needed to trust him when she was blindfolded.

That sounds like some shit you do to a 13-year-old. I was going to say, that's weird. So March 29, 2005, they end up getting the wedding ring set. Yeah. They get that from that lady's daughter, from Cammie Fine. I guess that she said that the single solitaire

in the center had been made into another ring which her ex-husband had pawned. So, I don't know where that is. But she does have a little bag containing the rest of the smaller diamonds

that were removed from the ring. So, he visits, Hess visits Brown again, April 2005, and they show Brown a photograph of the ring. They say, is this the ring? And they say, is that it? And he says, yes.

Sperry was found to have lived in apartment 109. Jesus. Yep. He owned the 88. So that all lines up. They're pretty sure that he did that including the ring and everything it's pretty it's there so obviously also um the television as well they find that also they get the tv they do find the television wow um they go over to this lady's house diane brown the ex-wife yeah. She is now Diane DeLuca.

And they enter her residence and she points to a Sony television on the dining room table. She said, this is the one that he gave me. And it still works fantastic. It's still really good, yeah. She said Brown told her he had obtained the television from a couple who were breaking up and needed money. So that is fucking interesting here. So they take possession of the tv they hold it as evidence obviously yeah that's going to be a a big deal there's really no there's no way to

solve all the others not yeah and brown said could very well be her if everything fits then it's probably her basically i don't know what the fuck else you want from me, but that's what I got. We got the TV and the ring. It's pretty well slam dunk, right? Yeah, it has to be. It has to be. There's no other fucking way it has to be. I mean, they found a TV.

They found the ring. It all matches up. They got the car. 109, for God's sakes. It's fucking insane. Yeah. They got the car. One oh nine, for God's sakes.

It's fucking insane. So anyway, they're when they're checking around to their they keep talking to the husband because they want to verify information. He's like, I don't know. I told you all this stuff. I don't think you'd want to put a lot of it out of your fucking head, too. Probably. You wouldn't want to keep going over the same stuff. So they said that her Rocio's English was not very good,

and when she wrote letters it was normally in Spanish, so they were putting that together because she said, I don't know, fucking she's in. Apparently her friend said that Rocio was a naive girl. Yeah, she's young. And she was talking to a friend of hers, and she said that she had met a guy who was cute and had a gold girl. Yeah, she's young. And she was talking to a friend of hers, and she said that she had met a guy who was cute and had a gold bed. Oh.

And so she said she was just, that's that type of thing, where she was like, oh, it's pretty. I like this guy. He's got a pretty bed. Then there's Melody Ann Bush. That's Flatonia, Texas. Yeah.

This is a 2003 now in March. Hess gets a letter from Brown, and this is after the whole grandam lady thing he writes the second matter is from elsewhere in addition to bolstering the credence I mainly curious of the outcome of the following I thought long and hard about picking an incident that would not be lost among many others a very small

town seemed to be my best bet. He talks about them not remembering, and he says that, so he's wondering about that. So they contact Fayette County, Texas, and talk to deputies there, and they said, we got a guy who says he claimed a woman in Flatonia in 1984. Yeah, do y'all remember? And they actually do.

They pick up an unsolved homicide, which occurred, and that is Melody Ann Bush, age 22, whose body was found in a culvert in March of 84. The death was about five days earlier, and they were like,

that's what they think. Now, she was a dancer. She's a stripper who resided at 31018 Sunflower Street, Magnolia, Texas. And so they're looking into all of that. Upon receiving all these reports, they said the chief medical

examiner conducted an autopsy and ruled the cause of death was acute acetone poisoning. Hess writes Brown and says, hey, we corroborated some of the details of the Flatonia. Provide additional details because otherwise we don't know fucking anything. Visits Brown in prison, does a three-hour interview.

Brown tells him that there were two distinct oddities about the murder in Flatonia, but that he feared the local coroner might have missed the nuances. And he didn't elaborate at the time. That's probably the poison. have missed the nuances and he didn't elaborate at the time that's probably the poison then he pens a letter to hess and attached on a separate sheet of paper he printed flatonia ether slash ice pick okay so he's saying that was what was what i the murders were so stabbed yeah they presumed those were the nuances that he was talking about and they did say though that that's in her autopsy how she died but didn't mention any

stab or puncture wounds in the autopsy so they also said that he could have mistaken acetone for ether he has no fucking difference sure so they visit him in prison again in 2005 now this is how far this is going. And Hess Brown asked Hess, what do you want to know about Flatonia? And he says, pretty much everything there was, I told you. And he said, well, there's one person that could put me with the victim. And that's the bartender. So if you talk to them, put us together. He said there was a bar at the motel where he was staying.

And he assumed that she was staying at the same hotel. The bar was located in the back of the motel and said the motel was near the highway. Brown believed that the name of the bar was something like deer or stag. And then they confirmed it was there was a stag bar. It was called back there. So they talked to Brown and they said, when do you or why do you think when they found her body that the bartender never came forward? And he said, probably because I was back there a little later with her. We had breakfast. She probably never thought nothing of it.

Yeah, probably thought we were just a couple. That's it. So they visit him again and ask him for more information. They keep doing that. And he said the bartender asked him if he would. I guess here's how it went down. He said that she was drunk, Melody. And he recalled that she was wearing jeans, some type of blouse, and was barefoot at the bar.

Oh, wow. He said that her and her husband or boyfriend were having an argument and that the woman thought her husband or boyfriend may have gone to another bar down the street. and that the woman thought her husband or boyfriend may have gone to another bar down the street. He said the bartender asked him, meaning Brown, if he would take this woman to the other bar. Will you take her down there? He said, at first I said no, but then I said okay. He said that as he was driving the woman to the other bar, she began to make out with him just out of nowhere. He said he took her back to his hotel room where they had sex he said afterwards quote then i used ether on her put her out then i used an ice pick on her

and they said well how much time did you spend with her and he said before i killed her 20 minutes maybe if that wasn't long she was acting acting like a slutty lowlife woman wanting to fuck. That's his quote. Jesus. An angel. Does it say a wonderful, fabulous, gentle creature? Is that what you're saying? Jesus.

Jesus. Putting putting wings on her. So Brown said. And so what the hell? The opportunity arose again. He was like, no big deal to him. He said afterwards, he returned to the bar where he had met the woman, and he remained at the bar for a while, then went back to his motel room to make plans.

He said he returned to the bar yet again around closing time, and he said he wasn't sure if his plans were made prior to leaving the bar earlier, but he and the bartender were going to go to breakfast. Wow. He said when the bar closed, he and the bartender went to a local truck stop to have breakfast. He said they drove. Then he drove the bartender's vehicle to and from the truck stop. He said after having breakfast, he returned to his motel room where Bush's body is still

on the bed. So after a while, he loaded the body into his van and drove north across the interstate to a bridge or culvert. He couldn't remember. But he did recall there were rails. He said he stopped in his van and dumped the body over the rails and heard the body hit the water. He described the area as having tall grass and water and asked Brown about using ether. When they asked him about using ether, he replied that he used it a number of times. They said, did you ever use acetone?

And he replied that he never used acetone on any of his victims, which he did because that's what it came up as. So, yeah, they talked to Robert Stuart Bush. That's Melody's husband there. And he said that he'd last seen his wife when they were staying at the Antlers Inn in Flatonia, Texas. his wife when they were staying at the antlers in in flatonia texas but um yeah he said that two of his friends cooper cherry and gene buchanan had come to their motel room to party with him and melody and they got in an argument melody left the room went to the bar which was located in the rear of the motel he said he went to sleep and didn't wake up till 6 a.m idiot Yeah. So they told him that they told the cops that after she disappeared that, you know,

Melody had come into the bar about one or eleven thirty p.m. They said she was having trouble walking and barefoot. That's why she's barefoot. She came from her motel room. They said she was dressed in a black sweater with red heart designs around the chest area silver pants and no shoes carrying a black purse they said this guy said that or the bartender said that she left the bar alone didn't mention anything about anyone giving her a ride to another bar or was he mentioned in the report at all so when police talked to the bartender brown's name never fucking came up ever he didn't even mention i had one of the patrons take her. What the fuck? No, it was a lady bartender.

Yeah, she didn't mention shit. So she said that she was the manager at the Stag Club. And that's what she called it rather than the bar. She said that she recalled Bush. This is years later because Bush worked at the club as a waitress. So she knew her. She said she remembered Bush had constant domestic problems with her boyfriend slash husband. She remembered the night when Bush came into the club prior to her disappearance. She remembered Bush telling her that her and her boyfriend were

staying at the Antler Inn but had become involved in an argument and that the boyfriend slash husband was destroying the room. She said that Bush was very intoxicated and spaced out and wasn't wearing shoes. She said that she had not ordered any drinks while in the club, and she said that she must have got shit-faced in her room there. Elsewhere. Wherever she was. Elsewhere. Yeah.

That is fucking ridiculous. She said she did remember. The bartender says she did remember that a silk flower salesman who used to stop by once or twice a month she remembered he would pass out silk flowers to the women in the club she remembered him get member flower delivery yeah she remembered him giving her 80 year old her eight-year-old not 80 as i say 80 year old daughter the fuck her eight-year-old daughter daisies on one occasion she said that he'd been coming into the club regularly for a six-month period prior to the death.

She didn't remember specifically seeing him there on the night in question, and she denied ever seeing the salesman and Bush together. He made himself a regular, so it wasn't like, oh, he's here. It wasn't weird. He's wallpaper at this point. It blends in. So, yeah, they said that never saw. He's just, he's wallpaper at this point. It blends in. So yeah, they said that,

um, never saw them going anywhere together. Nothing like that. So, and by the way, Brown told Hess that at the time of the murder, he was employed as a truck driver, delivered flowers.

One of his roots took him through Flatonia, Texas. You told him that on an earlier date here. So it all lines up there. Sure does. Now here's more confessions. He's claiming nearly 50 victims says he shot. of them strangled some of them uh one of them he killed with a pair of leather shoelaces knocked someone out with ether put ice pick in or we know about that

he put a rag soaked an ant killer over another victim's face and stabbed her 30 times with a screwdriver my god holy shit this is fucking insane so they're wondering what's true here and what's not true here a criminologist here named robert keppel said sometimes killers do not replicate things from one crime to the next that makes it hard on police yeah because there's no fucking there's no pattern there's just people disappearing um so he keeps claiming all these different people they um basically he's been married six times he said he's been disappointed with women his whole life he put it this way quote women are unfaithful they screw around a lot they cheat and they're not of the highest moral value they cheat and they are users what about you dog

you're killing all these people so that's fucking wild um so let's find out some of the the other ones here the criminologist that talked about it said the combination of moving around a lot picking random victims and being pretty clean about it if he's telling the truth about how he's disposed of the bodies that would show someone pretty calculated to avoid detection. Organized. Probably not, no doubt the guy's murdered a lot of people, but the numbers are just for media purposes. This guy has lied, cheated, and stolen his whole life, and there's no indication he's going to tell you the whole truth about his victims.

Right. Here are some that we know about. February 2nd, 1984, Nydia Mendoza. She's 17 years old. From Panama. And she's working as a stripper. I don't know if she has her age or documents fixed or what. But this is in Sugar Land, Texas.

They said DNA evidence in this case may provide the most promising evidence to bolster claims here. The evidence becomes crucial. They said her dismembered body was found in February 6th, 1984 in Sugarland, Texas. And so he's claiming he did it. And the police officer in charge here says we have all the fingernail scrapings, bodily swabs that were taken at the time of autopsy. And we have some articles of clothing that were collected from the crime scene that appear to have bodily fluids or blood on them. It's like we have a shitload of evidence here.

Yeah. If we can match it up with something. So Robert Brown told Hess, I will not, I'm not well, so I will cut this short. I will throw one thing by you. You mentioned the constable that is now in Flatonia was in Houston at that time. Around that time, maybe shortly before, a body in parts was discovered off U.S. Highway 59 in the southwestern Houston area. I would think someone would remember that. I will write again when I'm feeling better.

Till then, Robert. So the guy from Flatonia used to be in Houston? Used to be in Houston. I'm going to make him look like a real asshole right now. Let's make him go to both places. Oh, boy. So they spoke with all of this and they said, yes, there was a 17 year old victim found in that exact spot. It's you know, they gave the case number and everything like that. And they said that it was February 6th, 84.

The body was found along Interstate 59, where she had been dismembered. Her head and legs had been cut off. Her arms remained attached to her torso. My God. A really weird way to do it there, I would say. Yeah. Yeah, so they said that Ms. Mendoza was employed by Dames Nightclub,

which was a topless place located at 9605 Southwest Freeway in Houston. That sounds beautiful. Just lovely, doesn't it? A lovely part of town. Very respectable joint on Southwest Freeway. Oh, my God. So they talk to Brown again. By now, by the way, they don't even put him in restraints when he talks to Hess.

He comes in and they're like, hey, I brought you a cup of coffee. They're like hanging out now because he is providing pretty valuable information. Sure. So they talk to him, and he was unsure if the club was within Houston city limits. He said she was very petite and looked Asian. She said she's Panamanian. She said that the victim told him that she was from Guam. She might have been born there.

He said that he and Ms. Mendoza had made a deal for money for sex. Sure. They made a little deal and left together after her shift was over. He said that he and the victim left in his company van in the fucking, wow, drove to a motel not far. He described the motel as a rather nice motel, and he said there were not many motels in the area. When he described that visit,

they asked, they said that she had been, you know, dismembered and everything else, and they said, you know, what the fuck. He said he strangled her. Well, first of all, he said he had, as he put it, disarticulated her legs and severed her head with a dull butcher knife from the kitchenette in the motel.

Good Lord. Wow. He strangled her, then carried the pieces of her body out to his flower delivery van in suitcases and dumped them off Highway 59. That is fucking insane um so can you stay in one of those kitchenette rooms christ only knows what that shit's been used for and yeah oh god the knives are been used to dismember people and it was this quick the guy has said tell me what happened he said i met a girl in a bar and then what i took her to a motel. And then what after that?

I paid her. And then what? And then we had sex. Then what happened? I strangled her. Then what'd you do? Put her in the bathtub and I cut her legs off. Oh, my.

How'd you do that? And this is Hess's fucking quote. And he showed me. He put his hand down near his groin and said, you circumscribe the thigh with a knife here like this until you hit hard tissue you can't cut. Then you twist it back and tear it off like a turkey leg. Good Lord, man. That's what you're saying, popping them. Yeah. Now, when I'm hearing this, I can't jump and say, Jesus Christ, Robert, how could you do that? I have to say, OK, like it's something everybody does. I have to put the horror of it out of my mind. And when I walk out of the the prison by the time I get to the front gate, I'm not

thinking about it. I'm thinking about getting some Mexican food. Good lord. Yeah, so that's what she claims. He says that he knows he took her head and legs off, but he says he paused and he went, I may not have cut her arms off, which he didn't when he actually

remembered. Yep. That is fucking disturbing. Wanda Faye Hudson. May 28th, 1983. John Gilbert Higgs III, who was Wanda Faye's boyfriend, called the sheriff's office at approximately 12 p.m. and reported her dead. They report to 209 Carroll Street,

apartment E1 in Coshotta, Louisiana, and they found the body of Wanda Hudson lying on the floor next to her bed. She was nude and had multiple stab wounds. Brown's father, Ronald, was a deputy when the department was investigating the death of Wanda Hudson. I mean, that must have been her brother.

They must be mistaken here. His father was fucking dead. Had to be the brother. They have the same name, I think. So, yeah, they said Brown, now he confesses to that. He said that he took her home at about 11.30 p.m. This is the boyfriend saying this. And he said she put on her nightclothes, or she put her nightclothes on the floor next to her bed and then they had sex.

The boyfriend said afterwards she walked into the door and he heard and saw her lock the door as he left. He said he entered his vehicle at 1225 p.m. Next morning tried to call her. No answer. Lunch break. Went over there. Found the door ajar. Went in. Saw blood on the bed and wall knew something was wrong and found her with blood fucking everywhere

the autopsy report stated that she was stabbed 25 times in the chest and four times in the vaginal area good lord she had also been struck in the face and choked with a rope or cord prior to her death as well jesus they also also concluded that whoever was there had cleaned themselves up and washed the blood off themselves in the bathroom no fingerprints were found um that's wild um the hair found on the bed and clutched in a hand could not be positively matched with her boyfriend's either. So that was because at first they were just thinking it was the boyfriend. Right. Then they said the Louisiana State Report has a handwritten statement completed by Robert S. Watson.

This statement reads, Wanda Faye Hudson told me the day before she was killed at her mother's residence on Jones Street that Robert Brown changed the locks on her apartment that day. What? The day before, he was the guy changing the locks. Yeah. He gave the guy's name and they never investigated him. Yep. She said that she was scared to stay there by herself because of the people who had lived

in the apartment in the past. They had problems. She said that she thought Robert Brown had a key to her apartment and told me that his brother donald brown owns the apartments so that's how that so she didn't think it was a big deal he was like a maintenance guy yeah holy shit that is fucking disturbing he killed a woman in an apartment complex that his brother owned and his brother was going to be in the investigation of the murder yep wow doesn't give a fuck um that is wild um yeah so i don't even know what to say that is disgusting i've said that a few times i don't even know what to say but i am that's a lot man yeah i am fucking disturbed um by the way

the autopsy notes that's a screwdriver so that's how we know that. Wanda Faye Hudson. Yep. They said that no sign of forced entry. He probably had a key. So two months after that, Brown explained that he had worked as the maintenance man at his brother's apartment building and that the death was a spur of the moment thing. Said he opened the door, reached in with a screwdriver, and removed the bracket that held the chain. He just put his arm through and took it off. She was asleep. He said he had a can of Red Ant Killer, which contained chloroform.

He soaked a rag with it and put it on her face. Jesus fucking Christ, man. That is disturbing as shit. Why? He said that after they took her away, he was the one who he moved into the apartment himself get the fuck out of my life he moved into the murder apartment cleaned up the blood that he spilled and even repainted the walls and even slept in the bed he slept in the bed because they left it behind he just kept oh my god holy shit that is that's so sick that's so much more disturbing for some fucking reason i don't know why it is but it is um and that was in 82 that was in 90

83 oh my all right now 82 possibly yeah so wow he said he did a lot of shit on the spur of the moment said he was at a party that night drank pretty heavily and um you know did shit he normally didn't do oh my i don't know you don't know why i thought he did it sometimes you just do things that is crazy he unscrewed the chain thing dude that is so sick that is and that was in 82 when he wasn't arrested until 2003? Still not arrested for this. Oh, but my point is he did that shit, then he was arrested in 2003 for something entirely unrelated. Yeah, exactly. Holy fuck.

Fucking unbelievable. So he said he washed up, reattached the security chain to the door, left the door open 6 to 12 inches when he took off, threw the screwdriver in the trash bin at the apartment complex, by the way. They never know. The fucking next morning, the murder weapon was sitting in there. They never found it or looked for it. Unreal. Wow. They asked, have you ever had any contact with her before that?

And he said, as the maintenance man, I replaced her locks after she lost her key. And he said, as the maintenance man, I replaced her locks after she lost her key. So, man, he said that he replied the mattress was partially off the bed. He said if you were facing the bed, she was on the right side on the floor. And that fits the crime scene photos. Faye Self. Faye Self. This is in Cushota, Louisiana. They look into this the detectives travel there as part of

their background investigation into the original murder and they say face self a woman who lived in the same apartment complex in which he was resided yeah yeah there they said that they they received a runaway missing persons report completed by a Red River Parish Sheriff's Department there reporting that Faye had been born on 1956. She was 30-something years old. Last seen in 1983 at 9 p.m. at the Wagon Wheel Nightclub, Louisiana Highway 1, north of Cushata. And they said that um you know they were still looking for her basically they're still looking for still looking for her um i guess apparently she went to the bar and restaurant and the friends in the bar said she told them that she

was going to leave to go get her daughter since she had to be at work early the next day never got to her mother's house to pick up her daughter her car was still in the parking lot the next day and it was locked the keys were never found ambushed so yeah they said that she was a very responsible person as far as the baby was concerned and they don't understand what's going on here five years later insurance declares her dead because they never found her yeah they asked Brown if his victims ever got away. And he said, none ever got away. Never gave him the opportunity. If you're going to do it, just do it.

Which I think that was Nike's first slogan. And they were like, let's drop the first part of that. It sounds like a murderer, right? Yeah, it sounds a little redundant. A little snappier. So he said that there seems to be more female victims than male victims. And Brown said there's just more opportunities with female and his females. And he also said that, you know, he's been disappointed with women his whole life. Holy shit. Brown said that he'd gone to a nightclub known as Alice's Wagon Wheel, went to the bar, saw Faye Self with another woman known that he knew as Lucretia.

He said that they left the bar, or Brown said that Ms. Self left the bar. He remained and danced with Lucretia. He returned home around midnight. He said that he and Self resided in the same apartment complex, which was owned by his brother, Donald. This is the most murdery apartment complex ever. He himself lived next door to him, next to our neighbor. Her apartment was 10 feet away from his. Next to the one that he murdered a woman in?

Yeah, same thing. Oh, God. He said that he'd gotten the urge to go to Self's apartment because he did not see lights or any cars. He soaked a rag with chloroform and put the rag in a plastic bag. He went to her apartment, found the front door unlocked. He said the apartment door was on the side and it opened into her kitchen. He went into the residence, found her asleep in the bedroom, used the chloroform-soaked rag to put her out,

and he said he left her apartment and left the rag on her face. Then he said he went back to his apartment to obtain rope to tie her up with. When he returned, he found her dead from the rag. He said, oh, shit, I already killed her. He placed her body in the trunk of his Datsun B210. Wow. It's not meant for bodies. Drove her to a bridge over the Red River, which was located approximately one or 200 yards from his apartment complex.

Dumped her body in the Red River and said that he never heard she was ever found. Unbelievable. Wow. That is insane. They said, did you ever have sex with her and she said no she was dead uh-huh and she said he said i never had sex with her when she was alive dead none of that shit huh so yeah i didn't get a chance she died too fast fucking died during the same interview he goes also katherine jean hayes you want to know about her? What the fuck, man? Nickname of Fuzzy.

This is also in Cushota, Louisiana. This was in 1980. Okay. October 16th, 1980, the sheriff's office received a report that a man hunting in the woods near St. Maurice had discovered a human skull. So they show up. The hunter was identified as Donald Stroud of Montgomery, Louisiana, and he said that he was walking back to the highway by way of the creek bottom when he spotted a human skull. He notified the police department, showed up,

and they recovered other human bones in addition to the skull. That is disturbing, obviously, and so they said that their case had remained active. And so his story is, by the way, she's 15, Catherine. Oh, Jesus. He met her at a place called Uncle Albert's Chicken Stand and took her home. That's a little bit of a chicken joint. Yeah.

Took her home and had consensual, he says, sex with her. He says he never raped anybody, by the way. Yeah, of course he doesn't. That's his story. This is, he's strangled her with leather shoelaces. Yeah. Yeah. That is very disturbing.

He said he didn't know her name, but he recalled somebody calling her Fuzzy and thought that was her nickname. He said he doesn't know anything about Fuzzy. He doesn't even know if she lived around there. Didn't get that far into the conversation. Just met her at the chicken stand. Bunch of people had left. He pulled into the parking lot. There were two guys sitting in a vehicle talking to Fuzzy. He said the two males were about to go home and they were going to leave Fuzzy there. So he told Fuzzy that she could go home with him. She said she had no place else to go, so she got in his vehicle. They left. They went to his mother's residence,

took Fuzzy into his bedroom, and they made out for a while and, quote, had our thing. They had sex. He said then they became involved in an argument, didn't know what it was about. She got dressed and went to sleep. He said he got some old leather

shoelaces and strangled her loaded his body into the trunk of the car went to a high bridge near montgomery and fucking dumped her off the bridge hurt her body hit the water and said that he heard about a year later her body had been found by some hunters and thought she was identified so he's like yeah that's what happened there yikes um 15 years old that is wow insane then there's the holiday inn lady as he calls her yeah um he talks about that was in that hypothetical trip that he took the dude on there in the holiday inn new orleans is fertile grounds left inside a room that's that one five minutes from the french quarter uh the brown said 1977 he was staying at a hotel around there met a female he said that the motel would not allow her into the motel and she told him that she was staying at the holiday inn what the hell kind of motel is and let you have guests um so she said he said she So he said she gave him directions to the Holiday Inn.

He left the hotel and drove on the Interstate 10 and went under an overpass. He said the Holiday Inn was on the left side of the highway. He exited, and he said he got off. He went into the hotel. He said it was a two-story hotel, swimming pool outside, and all that kind of shit. So maybe that'll help you. Then there's Timothy Warren, Tulsa, Oklahoma. That was another one.

He said that the Tulsa Police Department had discovered a semi-nude male body partially submerged in a creek in Mohawk Park. The victim was identified as Timothy Lee Warren, who was described as a gay man who resided in Tulsa. The victim had been shot three times in the head with a.22. His story is that he, in the letter, he said, now let's go west to Tulsa, that whole thing. He asked him about it. He said that he was seated at a counter inside the restaurant when a white male sat next to him. He said that he assumed the subject was homosexual, is the way he put it. He said that he allowed the subject to leave the restaurant with him,

and they drove to a park along the river, and he says he doesn't recall the route they drove. He said that he wasn't a big guy, he was a smaller guy. He thinks he strangled him there in the park. He said there was a park bench, and he said he had a Ford Maverick or a Buick Regal. He couldn't remember, but they exited his car. He strangled the guy. He said the guy didn't even put up much of a fight. And he said, you know, that was that.

What about when you shot him, man? Doesn't matter. Just, you know, that's just part of it. Strangled him to death. That's different people. Then, um, the homicide in Tulsa,

he said, quote, I just shot him, you know, boom. That's what he said. That's the second time he talks about it. Oh,

so the first time he said he strangled the guy, Lisa Lowe, West Memphis, Arkansas. That's that one. Remember that one right off the thing? He said, uh,

she had been found in a small, in a drainage dish, drainage ditch of a small river off the I-40. Yep. 30 miles west of Memphis. She was dressed in a tube-type dress, high-heeled shoes, and no underwear. She was last seen by her boyfriend leaving home to go to a convenience store to purchase pantyhose. And then she was going to a nightclub known as Players's Palace in Forest City, Arkansas. That sounds like a fucking nightmare. They describe her as a very light-complected black female, 5' to 5'1", very petite, 20 to 21. Right in his wheelhouse. Right in this guy's fucking wheelhouse.

So, yeah, they said the last scene wearing a little dress and all that sort of thing. They send all the info. He said that, Brown said that, talking about this, he admitted it earlier. He said he met her as he was going into one of the blues clubs in the area. He said she was 25, 30, light-skinned, black female, short sweater dress. He said she was a prostitute.

He said they reached an agreement to exchange sex for money, left the club in his vehicle, parked along the 40 there, crossed over the Mississippi into West Memphis, and he said that he went on an unknown road down there and um he said maybe there was a small lake he said she performed oral sex on him after they were done he believed he strangled her and may have even shot her what are the chances none of these people are prostitutes that's what i mean that he's just raping people he doesn't want to say that that's probably it but he doesn't say some of them he says i paid for sex which doesn't make his image he because some of them he says i i you know i just talked her into it so for an image of himself

you'd think he would always say you know i just got her to fuck me consensual sex but he's happy to be like i paid her for a blow job so i don't know what to believe on this guy it's really disturbing so he said he dropped her off an approximate two-foot embankment down into the water. Then there's the cowboy lady, as he calls her. Yeah. This is from Colorado. In 1994

he went to Cowboys Nightclub where he, by the way, if they would have searched his fucking place properly, he wouldn't be around in 1994. He noticed a white female 35 bleach blonde hair 5 foot 6 120 pounds she was wearing western style clothing and seemed drunk as shit the cowboy yeah she was making making her cowboy lady is what he called her that's fascinating that's his fucking it's very interesting terminology. The cowboy lady.

She was making her rounds. He stressed she was not a prostitute, this one. Upon leaving the club, he saw this woman who had become referred to as Cowboy Lady, and he saw her, offered her a ride in his Ford Ranger. She wanted to go to the club that was located just west of the Bennigan's bar and restaurant. He said they drank and danced. He offered to take her home. They went back to his home.

He explained that his wife at the time was visiting family. They got there. They had sex. He strangled her, placed her body in an unused bedroom for about two days. Jesus. Then wrapped her in plastic and placed her in the back of his truck, drove to a high area off Gold Camp Road and dumped the body. He says he kept the plastic, though. Really?

Hairs and fingerprints. He kept the plastic. Yeah, well, you might need that later on. So, why not? He said that she was hitchhiking later on, though, which is weird. Yeah, but he does say the map. He doesn't seem to remember exactly. Yeah, but he does say the map.

He doesn't seem to remember exactly. Now, here's a few that are probable bullshit because we're just about done here with this. We got to wrap this up. This is that the guy that he said he considered to be a homosexual at the truck stop. They said a semi, that one is not bullshit. That's Timothy Lee Warren. Shot three times in the head with a.22.

They found him. The soldier in Korea, he says that they think that's bullshit because nothing ever came out from there. Another time he said that he met a married woman with a strong Cajun accent. They went to a

bridge on what he thinks was the, I can't even pronounce that river, and Brown said they engaged in sex and then he strangled her, dumped her off the bridge of the river, and they could not locate the report or records that might match that killing. No missing persons, no bodies found. Also, the scenic overlook guy, Interstate 90 in Washington, he says that he, that's the Washington's our next stop, where he dumped somebody over the precipice.

he, that's the Washington's our next stop, where he dumped somebody over the precipice. They said there's no, they searched the area, no reports, no bodies that match this. Now, again, though, this is all from 35 years ago. Right. So when he says we went off this road, then made a left, then there was two boulders, you don't remember shit like that. Right. We could be talking about a completely different exit. They have no idea.

Other point is those boulders could have been moved by now shit could have been changed anything in 35 fucking years things change it's it's insane now he said originally this victim was a female then he changed and said he was confused and it was a male so yeah he said he took 200 from the victim's body shot them with a.357. By the way, when he was arrested for the stolen car, he had a.357 on him that they destroyed. They destroyed it. You shouldn't have this. You shouldn't have that.

That is fucking crazy. That is disgusting. There's a couple on a beach 200 miles north of San Francisco we talked about about he said the hung out with them pacific coast highway and he said that he was met these people there the couple asked him if he wanted to smoke a joint talked to them for five minutes then shot them with the 357 ruger that he had still he said that he described them as being in their mid-20s to 30s he shot the couple went through their backpacks placed their body under some driftwoods and left the area. Then he said before he left California, he met a guy at a truck stop, stayed with him and his wife for a couple days. They had children

while he was staying there. The kids were throwing rocks and the police were called. He said when the police responded, they discovered his truck was stolen and that's how he got arrested. Oh, goddamn kids throwing rocks. Kids throwing rocks got him arrested arrested which is fuck thank you kids heroes heroes there's also the two males in mississippi that he talks about here um yeah he talks about all of that he said that he was driving he pulled over into a small pull-off which was not a rest area two males made it into the pull-off started acting like they were quote bad guys said he didn't know if they were planning to rob him or scare him.

So to be safe, he pulled out his.44 and shot them in the chest. You never know. The Cajun lady, as he called it also here, he said he killed a white female. He met her in a Morgan City, Louisiana bar. Couldn't recall the name of it. She had dark hair, dark eyes in her 30s. And he said he took her to a dock area and they had sex. And then he strangled her, took her body, dumped it off the bridge into the river.

Probably did. He said this was the late 1970s. I don't fucking know. Yeah. Also, the Hilltop Bar Lady, as he called it. She told him she was a married woman and her husband worked for International Paper Company, which is where he worked for a time and where he stole shit from.

They'd only been married a couple weeks, but she was frustrated because her husband was always working. So they spent the night together. He said he had sex with her and he was astounded that she was a newlywed and already out fucking around. That's when he decided to kill her.

How dare. He's making moral judgments now. You literally had sex with her, man. Dude. How dare you? Also a northern New Mexico motorcyclist he said he killed. Threw him over a precipice as well. Then there's some other ones, miscellaneous guys he said he, miscellaneous people he said he killed.

He said during his job he drove 200 miles a day shit would come up who knows yeah yeah if an opera yeah if an opportunity did they said well why would women disgust you and he said fucking around on somebody or whoring around either way they are trash they're married or they have a boyfriend or they're just being a whore. Moral judgments from this idiot. What are you being? A fucking murdering asshole. So this is obviously disturbing. There's a bunch of curious others here that they're talking about

that they want to know about. It goes to all this. 2006, he pleads guilty to first-degree murder of Rocio Sperry, who was killed at 15 years old. Pleads murder. He is set to, you, sir, may fuck off. Life without the possibility of parole for 40 years. Okay. Concurrent to your current life without parole.

Okay. So at the same time. And he's returned to solitary confinement. Then he denies that he ever killed Heather Dawn Church, which is the whole thing that started this whole shit. Well, like it matters. You're still convicted, man. It doesn't matter. But he's like, maybe I can get rid of that and get over here.

So there you go. So that is Cushata, Louisiana, and a very sick bastard. Killed at least eight, possibly nine, and up to 50. We don't know. Probably the 50. I was don't know probably probably the 50 as i say probably in the middle somewhere yeah yeah you know who knows but if you like that show tell the world about it give us a review say something positive five stars is very helpful helps drive us up the charts social media shut up and give me murder at uh instagram there you can

find us on instagram there uh you also want to certainly go to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com Get your tickets for live fucking shows and virtual live show. Oh yeah. We're doing a 420 virtual live show again here and so definitely those tickets will be available pretty damn soon. We'll let you know exactly when. We can't wait for

that. Get your tickets. They're selling out fast the live show tickets. A couple of them are already sold out. San Francisco, Sacramento, Europe, Minnesota. You want to be the largest show we've ever fucking had? Show what the hell kind of pride you have? Rock it out and do it. We can't wait for that show. We're very excited

for that. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. All your bonus material. Five bucks or above gets you everything. Couple hundred bonus episodes. New ones every other week. First up this week, Crime and Sports, the Morgana the Kissing Bandit. Big-titted lady who just allowed to run onto sports fields and kiss people at will.

There's that. Then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about the Prisoner Dating Game, everybody. You know all about that. Listen to that. Also listen to, not on Patreon but regular crime and sports and your stupid opinions because fuck are they goddamn funny get in there and do that uh jimmy i would love to hear the names of the people who have signed up for patreon and have done wonderful things for us jimmy hit me with the names of these fantastic angels right fucking now this week's executive

producer is a bobby britt vanessa thompson helena krimsky, Jordan Bennett, happy birthday! Holy shit! Rue's granddaughter, Brandi McClanahan, Raven Delgado, Libby Lynn Stout. Thank you all so much for what you do. You make the show happen. You're terrific. Other producers this week

are Shauna Moose, Peyton Meadows, Emily Miller. She cleared her debt, James. Remember that show? Janice Hill, Rebecca Sorensen, Jessica Meadows, Emily Miller. She cleared her debt, James. Remember that show? Janice Hill, Rebecca Sorensen, Jessica Bampton, and S.J. Surridge. Oh, okay. There's more. There's a lot more. God damn it.

Caleb Lustig, Ashley McKenzie, H. Carver, Coach Wyatt, Barbara Jordan, Thomas Booth, T.D., Cyrillic. Cyrillic. Cyrillic. I think so. Khalida. Yeah. Just Cyra. It's a Y. See how that happens.

No, not Sierra. Rejected Sierra Mist. Cyrillic. Cyrillic? No. That's what you feed the horses. That's how you get the Sierra Mist into your horse. It's with a lick.

Kaleida. John Collimer. Kayla K. Lee. How? Katie Faulkner. Jenna Harthy. Ignacio. Ignacio.

Joaquin. Frank Piesco. Brittany Keel. Courtney Poos, I think. It might be plus. Might be plus. Which is better? I don't know.

Courtney poos is like the beginning of a sentence. Courtney poos in the middle of the street. Like you could say that. Is it poos or puss? Or if it's Courtney puss, it's more like, that's almost like a nickname. Courtney puss. Nice to see you. Michael with no last name.

Anna Bacall. Bacall, I think. Alicia Graves. Scott Miller. Jaden. Jaden Patterson. Nicole Matelski. see it michael with no last name anna bacal bacai i think alicia graves scott miller jayden jayden pattison nicole matelski don russell nicole jameson jemison uh alessandra alessandra stellino uh stellino jill arbuckle rudy muncie amanda guillen renee with no last name kelsey calvert carter garcia kelly joe peril carol passman uh daryl turner sarah with no last name. Kelsey Calvert. Carter Garcia. Kelly Jo. Carol Passman. Daryl Turner.

Sarah with no last name. Erin McMillan. Julia Schwarthoff. Short of. Short. Well done. That's a mouthful. Dawn Wendell.

Catherine Peters. Anxious Dumpling. Ashley with no last name. Tatiana Morton. Katie and Jacob Gilmore. Jordan Falkowski. Vanessa Canales. Margarita Dixon, Daniel Stockland. Oh, boy.

Take, no, take the scenic route. That's good advice. Kylie Anthony, Sarah Forshee, Cody Schmidt, Stephanie Ramirez, Joanne with no last name, Amanda Walango, Abigail McCowan, Kelly Tape, Dara Horning, Alyssa Smolenski, Holly Stevenson, London Ann Matt, Titchus, Titchus McGoo. Whoa. Titsius, Titsius or Titchus? Titsius McGoo, that's... I don't know what that means. Jizz spunk, I think that is. Oh, I'm a big fan of the tits.

I don't know about the goo. Brandon Waugh. Mindy with no last name. Caitlin Loudermilk. Jennifer McKean. Nope, it's just Kean. Jennifer Kean. Merit Versteeg.

Versteeg? Julian Deep. Maybe Depp. Depey. Namia. Namia? Naomi. Namia?

Namia? It's Naomi. It's Namia. That's Naomi. It's Namia. That's too many vowels in one name. Oh, I lost my mind. Whipple. Nicola Keenan. Jeffrey Liu.

Stephanie Horrigan. And again. Bradley. And again and again. And again and again. Bradley Davenport. Michael Humphrey. Mikkel maybe?

Allie with no last name. Nat alley with no last name italia with no last name susan chong uh daniel daniel mitchell jacob strand matt mills jessica copeland copeland uh the fans of fonzanon fonzanoon what is a fonzanoon is that is that a thing fonzanoon i don't know what a fonzanoon is i don I don't know. Is that like a fontanelle? It's the, though. There's only one. That's why. Alright. Sandra Sandor Boehm. Sarah Mao? My.

Ellie with no last name. Casey Guy. Maggie Novak. Bridget Daniels. Eddie Davis. Pam and Paul Van Schy. Van Schy. Winter Schmidt. Pam and Paul. Pam and Paul. They're a couple of good folks.

Mira Gardineri. Gardiner. Gardenoir. Gardener. Gardenoir. That's it. It's a French gardener. Jennifer Greer.

Jessica Dechamps. Dechamps. Dechamps. Kate Ackerman. Karen Walsh. Christina Gomez. Derek Marble, Michelle Magnotti, Emily with no last name, Cody with no last name, Ryan R., Zoe BB, Evan Seeger, Jessica, Jessica Martinez.

That's a real name. Taylor with no last name, Rachel Moishe, Sam Hupel, Crystal Kinzer. I'm Jessica. Say Jessica to Jessica. She runs for office. Say Jessica to Jessica. That Nocica is a real bitch. She's a you-don't-want-to-get-with-Nocica.

Sam Hupel, Crystal Kinzer, Megan Henry, Alexandra Lehman, Regina Tormima. She's from Ravina, James. As if there's two Regina Tormimas Regina Tormima. She's from Ravina, James. As if there's two Regina Tormimas. Tormima? All right. Stacia. I can't even say the first one. Stacia Stacia.

Stacia Hiller. Shannon Goodwin. Casey Ostrander. Kay Sellers. Titus Christie Miller. Alexis Harris. Jack Washington. Tanya Serpiglia, Sarah Piglia.

What a tough one. Young Blaze 13. Cheyenne with no last name. Muggins, McGee, Cindy. What is that? Morante, Diane. Diane Wells, Mitchell. Mitchell, Craig, Monica with no last name.

Andrew, Mad Smoker, Sue, Frosh, Taylor, Johnson, Aspen, Johnson. Andrew Nauta. Mad Smoker. Sue Frosch. Taylor Johnson. Aspen Johnson. Probably friends or family. Holly with no last name. Or is it Holy? Francisco Ramos. Kat Breeden. Sounds like a relief picture.

Amber Jean Young. Jared Gibson. Emily Smith. Nat with no last name. Emily with no last name. Amy with no last name. Hillary D. Lambo 615.

Terry Lee. Ivan Lopez. Amanda Burton. Jordan Mason. Rachel with no last name amy would know last name hillary d lambo 615 terry lee ivan lopez amanda burton jordan mason rachel would know last name emma stevens gary true t to heo tulio uh kong pow uh jordan bettet jordan petty john petty john all right got it it's one name uh brother uh brother Brother Paxton. Got it. Fine. Vanessa. Fine. Vanessa Smith. Kayla Davis. Jammy Wassaman. Yenny with no last name. Toby Selby. Alyssa Banker.

John Kotz. Melissa with no last name. Donald with no last name. Isabel Rocco. Chelsea Ireland. Connie with no last name. Callie B. Melissa Phillips.

Rice. Maybe Reese. Bevan. Brandon Weber. Andrew Van Alstine, Daniel Morgan, Ashley Elmore, Benjamin Sobel, Jamie Summers, Sarah Lilly, Tripod Gigi, Rowan Becker, Ashley Bucciarelli, almost got it, Ashley Page, Hannah G, Don Engler, Jamie Pierce, Catherine Adams, Karina Cunningham, Melissa Nelson, Frank Dasiello.

All right, Frank. Erica with no last name. Daniel. Fucking name. Daniel Hair? Harry maybe? Charlie with no last name. Corinne Stevenson, Stafford Winchester, Lori Somerville, Shall with no last name, Deli J. Smith, Tam Dog, Jordan Zirkel,

maybe Josh Cobb, Tyler Mallory, Fred Park, Erin Booknut, Sydney Davis, Stephanie Acton, Ashley Ferguson, Paulina Manley-Sims,

Kelly Parsons, Caleb Stith, Andrea with no last name, Matt Parker, Cowboy with no last name, Brady Caleb Stith, Andrea with no last name, Matt Parker, Cowboy with no last name, Brady Engelman, Kelly with no last name, Viviana Savelli, Bandage Monkey, Monica Pius, good for you, Monica, you're pious.

You pious bitch. She's pious as fuck. She's wonderful. Ryan Morrison, Stallion Nugget, Dina with no last name, and all of our patrons. You guys are wonderful. Ryan Morrison, stallion nugget. Dina would know last name and all of our patrons. You guys are wonderful. Thank you. Thank you so much,

everybody for what you do for us. Honestly, you're beyond fucking what we can imagine. So thank you. Thank you for everything and what you do. So we really do appreciate you want to get ahold of us. Shut up and give me murder dot com. There's links to everything on there.

You can't miss it. Do that. Tell your friends, God damn it. And keep coming back week after week because we can't stop it. Can't stop. Won't stop. Don't kill anybody, by the way. And if you do, at least keep track of them.

How about that? That said, oh, my God. Until next week, everybody. It's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members. You can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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