Small Town Murder - #46 - Double Murder, Double Confession in Gatesville, North Carolina

Episode Date: November 29, 2017

This week, we look at the out of the way town of Gatesville, North Carolina, where many people witness the build up to a vicious double murder, but that's only the beginning... Did DNA finally exonerate the man who confessed, or did it just cement his guilt? Along the way, we find out the inner workings of a pig pickin', how lack of pornography may cause someone to drink beer at a grocery store, and how many different versions of a confession is too many!! Hosted by James Pietragallo & Jimmie Whisman New episodes every Thursday!!Please subscribe, rate, and review!Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!Head to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder!For merchandise: crimeinsports.threadless.comCheck out James and Jimmie's other show: Crime in Sports Follow us on social media!Facebook: facebook.com/smalltownpodInstagram: instagram.com/smalltownmurderTwitter: twitter.com/MurderSmall Contact the show: [e-mail] See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Travel around the country. We don't care. Treat us like the Grateful Dead. Come see us, guys, please. Now let's get this show going. This week, we look at the out-of-the-way town of Gatesville, North Carolina, where someone attacked two well-known locals in a most brutal fashion. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody.

Welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Yay, indeed. Nailed it again. Yes, sir. My name is James Petrigallo. I am here with my co-host. I am Jimmy Wissman.

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radio show in the morning. They're always off. Everything TV shows are on hiatus. We don't do that. Suckers. We're here for you every time. Lazy bastards. So thank you guys for coming through for us lazy bastards. And thank you guys most of all for your Patreon and your PayPal contributions.

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I don't know how they're going to say it. It would be windy. You'd probably hear a lot of that going on. And it blows my words right into the ears of unsuspecting, needed praise people. Well, if you want to be one of these people with words blown in your ears, which we won't forcibly blow anything anywhere, you can head over to patreon.com slash crime in sports. Right. And you can make a donation there.

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we have to tell you, this is a comedy podcast. It is. It is also true crime. It is. All the facts are real. Everything is true, but there's comedy involved. There is. That's why we give the disclaimer. We're not telling you, hey, we're going to say the most horrific things and we're going to make fun of dead babies. No. That's not why we're saying to say the most horrific things and we're going to make fun of dead babies.

That's not why we're saying this because we don't do that. We may go out of our way to make sure not to make jokes at the expense of the victims or of the victims' families. We're not about that. We don't try to do that at all. We've said it many times. We're assholes, but we're not scumbags. That's right. And that's what it's all about right there.

So, yeah, we do this disclaimer just because some people complain, hey, there was jokes in that. There shouldn't be jokes in murder podcasts. You're damn right there were. So we're telling you up front, there's jokes in here. Don't complain later. So if you like that, great. Come on board. We're going to have an awesome time for a couple hours. If you don't think that comedy and true crime ever belong in the same sphere at all, well, thanks for giving us a shot.

Probably not going to work out. It might. I don't know if you just want to relax for a minute and open up your mind and see that we're not complete scumbags. We might change you. That's it. We might change you around. But if you don't like it, don't complain because we're telling you up front, that's it. Let's do it from there. Let's go on a trip.

But if you are sticking around, you're probably saying, shut up! Give me murder! That's what I'm talking about. Shut up and give me murder. And we will. Right now, let's head on a trip, Jimmy. What do you say? Yeah. Let's pack the bags.

Alaska, get the parka. Get the parka packed up. Shaking the icicles off my elbows. Goodness, man. Alaska was beautiful. Sweet Pete. It was pretty. Gorgeous.

I loved it. It was fantastic. But now we have to hit the road. Okay. It's a long trip. We're heading back to the East Coast again of the United States here. My iPad's not even charged. Well, you better charge it.

They have the chargers at the airport now. You'll be fine. Just plug it in while we wait for the plane. Let's do this. And head to North Carolina. Oh! All the way to North Carolina. Blue Ridge Mountains.

And there's so many murders. North Carolina is a murder rich. Blue Ridge, right? I believe so. Old Smokies? That's Tennessee. Oh, okay. And I think that goes through West Virginia.

There's a nice mountain range there. I do know that. I've driven back and forth through there and you go, hey, look at the mountains. And it just looks like mountains. I don't know what the hell one is which. West Virginia looks like it's crumbling upon itself. Yes. It's smolders.

Very rocky and ridgy. It's smolders in places. It's a weird place. We'll get to West Virginia, though. This is not West Virginia. We'll go to North Carolina. A very murder-rich state. Really? A lot of murder in North Carolina.

Am I shocked or am I not shocked? A plethora of cases to choose from in North Carolina. I was overwhelmed with cases, and I'm like, we're going to be in North Carolina often, so I'll just pick one here. It's fine. I wanted to go through all the states, and we went out of the country a few times and do all of that.

We did a couple of states twice though, didn't we? No, we didn't. Not yet? We have not repeated a state or a country. We've done Canada, UK, Australia, and we've done all the different states. We'll get to you. But we have not done any repeats. We'll get to you.

There's a couple. I'm tempted because there's some good states. But after this, we're kind of going to – once we clear all the states, then we're going to jump around a bit. We'll double up and whatever. I love it. We'll just find interesting stuff. But we're in Gatesville to once we clear all the states then we're going to jump around a bit and we'll double up and whatever we'll just find interesting stuff but we're in gatesville north carolina okay oh my goodness a very murdery time and uh they and they keep all their court records public it's beautiful that's great carolina it's fantastic so uh here we go to gatesville north carolina northeastern part of the state okay this shit is in the middle of nowhere. Cold, too, right? No, it's North Carolina is the most miserable weather on the planet. I swear to God.

My father lived there for years and it is horrific. It snows there a lot, too. Yes. It snows in the winter. It's hot as shit in the summer. But they've got a beach. It's not all the way over there. Yeah.

But the rest of the state, if you're not at the beach, it's a horror show. I'm telling you. And it's a pretty big state. It's a big ass state. It's a chunky one. It's a big state. It's long. Yeah.

It's a big state. But I mean, I'm telling you, it's 98 and 100 percent humidity in the summer and it's freezing as cold. No words. It's the worst of both worlds. I don't get why anyone lives in the South. I really don't. No offense.

I know you like the culture, whatever. Weather wise, you're out of your fucking minds. The summers are unlivable. The winters are still cold. Why are you there? Unlivable. They're unlivable. We live in Phoenix.

Summers are unlivable. Right now, gorgeous outside. It's going to be 73 degrees all week in December. It was 90 degrees on Thanksgiving. Yes, we're here because we give up the summers and we say, okay, we're going to have a beautiful winter. They don't get anything in the spring or in the south. In the spring and the fall, there's like four days. Oh, it's nice out.

Let's get the barbecue. And every other day sucks. And it rains constantly and you have a lot of bugs. I don't understand how you do it. You're hearty people. And I praise your stick-to-it-ness because I couldn't do it. That place is horrific. It's 95 in March. in march it's horrible yeah i've seen that good to be out of the panhandle on this one anyway it's in the there's not much of a panhandle in this state no even delaware was

kind of on a panhandle it was like the if you turned it sideways it was a damn panhandle so head toward the pan seriously everyone head toward the pan. Sometimes that can be dangerous, like in this case. This county, it's the northern border of North Carolina. It's like the tip-top, almost all the way to the east, just middle of nowhere. It's in Gates County, very creative Gates and Gatesville.

We've seen Stubbsville and all these. It's middle of nowhere. Two hours from Richmond, Virginia. Two hours, 20 minutes from Raleigh, North Carolina, the other direction. Middle of nowhere. Middle of the woods. Zip code 27398. Area code 252.

Really watch out for these people. It's going to be weird. Tiny town. And it's not a tiny town that's kind of butted up against a lot of other stuff. It's in the middle of goddamn nowhere, pretty much. There's towns but it's it's 0.4 square miles okay in the middle of nowhere weird it's such a small place uh the town itself does not have a slogan unfortunately because i couldn't even find a website for the town itself really uh yeah it's that tiny of a town it's not even a website town maybe they don't have uh internet connection yet that's possible honestly it's possible here i picture this place like uh in willy wonka the one kid who sleeps with

like the whole family and it looks like it's like depression era buckets it's like depression era west virginia like i lost my job at the coal mine you know toothpaste factory it's whatever it was it's that's that's what it looks like i picture kids with just you know actual black soot on their faces and it's not from it's not from chimney sweep and it's just it was. That's what it looks like. I picture kids with just, you know, actual black soot on their faces. And it's not from chimney sweeping. It's just from eight years of hard living. That's how I feel about it. An eight-year-old who just never had a bath. All these kids, when you take pictures of them, it looks like it's from the Dust Bowl, I feel like.

You know, they're just like windblown and, you know, sunburned and dirty. You know, you're just like, oh, that's sad. It's me as a kid look at that guy he what is he 65 years old that guy's 27 he's just had a hard that kid is 11 by the way look up a like a major league baseball team's team photo from like 1920 yeah every guy on there you're like what are these guys 50 they're all like 23 years old they look 50 they're just destroyed they grew up on a farm. Just a hard life. They've been in the sun all day, every day.

It's tough. That's the definition of hardscrabble. It's just fascinating. But I did find a motto or a slogan for the county, Gates County. They have a little wherewithal about them. Gates County. It's a quote, come and visit Gates County for a day, a week, or a lifetime. We've heard the slogan pretty much the same before.

It's not creative. Basically a day or a week or in case you're stranded forever. Or if you're kidnapped and tied to a bed and have your feet smashed by Kathy Bates. Either one. Whatever you want to do. Either way. It's always that, though. We're here all the time.

We're never going anywhere. We're not going anywhere. We're never going anywhere. We're not going anywhere. This, there was the, now I screwed up the Klinglet people from Alaska last week because I knew, I've heard of them and I knew of them, but the name itself with the T, I didn't put it together because I'm a moron. Well, I got all the corrections and I just didn't give a shit. I was like, yeah, sorry. I don't know. That really had nothing to do with the murder.

That was the smallest detail of something that happened 300 years before what we were talking about. This place here, obviously, uh, native Americans were here first. Uh, obviously it was the net Nansaman, Chesa, uh, Nansaman, the Chesapeake and the chow, uh, chow on cat. It sounds good. Chowanoke. Chowanoke.

We'll say, uh, Chowanoke. Chowanoke. Okay. You're going with Chowanoke. I like it. Chowanoke. Chowanoke, we'll say. Chowanock. Chowanock. Okay. You're going with Chowanock, people. I like it. I'm sorry I butchered your entire- And these are all the natives that were there. These are the natives that were there and the Nottoway Indians.

Okay. Yes, they were all there. Everything on the East Coast is Chesapeake. Holy shit, do they love the Chesapeake. They do. And this, I love Chesapeake Bay seasoning. That's fantastic. And Chesapeake Bay up there is beautiful, too.

I love those Utz crab chips. The ones, oh, the crab chips from Baltimore and Maryland and that area. A little bit into Virginia, you can get them. Listen, you guys, send those over. Those are my favorite goddamn things in the world. I love those damn crab chips. Yeah, if you can get them, send them. And not you guys.

Find them. Knock on the door of Utz CEO and tell him there's some dudes in Phoenix that dig your shit. A lot of people actually do push Utz's CEO and tell him there's some dudes in Phoenix that dig your shit. A lot of people actually do push Utz. You'll see it around, especially on a show. What was it? Oh, The Wire! Hey, Shorty, go get me some crab chips

and a Snapple. What? That sounds delicious. Yeah, it still is delicious. You should watch The Wire and then you'll get hungry for crab chips. This is what you do. Watch The Goddamn Wire, you son of a bitch. So, these Native Americans were peaceful, which is not great for them. No. When Europeans show up.

With muskets and shit. It doesn't work out here. Yeah. Obviously, these people aren't going to coexist. No. They just left. They were just like, we don't want to be around these people. Yeah, these people are obviously crazy.

They lived that fucking lifestyle long before it was cool. I like it. Yeah, these people are obviously crazy. They lived that fuck it lifestyle long before it was cool. I like it. They were the original people that another race moved into their neighborhood and they all moved to another place. These Native Americans are the original. The Europeans came there like- Fuck these vanilla-faced people. These white trash motherfuckers.

We are getting out of here. Like we've mentioned, there's like three kiddie pools on that guy's lawn, man. They're all out there. There's an engine hanging from a tree. I'm moving. I'm sorry. They had kiddie pools on the poop deck of their man. They're all out there. There's an engine hanging from a tree. I'm moving. I'm sorry. They had kiddie pools on the poop deck of their ship coming over.

It's ridiculous. The engine hasn't even been invented yet. Do you understand that? They still have one hanging from a tree. I don't know how the hell they pulled that off. This man invented the El Camino just to have a rusted one in his yard. He invented it. Perfect. Perfect. So, yeah,

they had a hard time the uh the settlers at first that's a lot of swamps and sandy soil yeah and it's just not a real place that really let you know lent itself to easy farming but they kept at it they kept at it uh it's one thing about white people what they will do they find a neighborhood yeah no no if they find a neighborhood that they want yeah there will be goddamn cupcake shops up in a year's time in that fucking neighborhood. They will get everyone that they don't like out of there, and they will turn the shit around to their liking.

They got corn growing out of quicksand. And I didn't say this is a good quality. I'm just saying that's a quality that they do. That's it. I don't know if it's positive. When 30-year-old young professional couples of gay or straight see a neighborhood they like, they go,

we're buying lofts. We'll make it happen. That was a warehouse. That's going to be a great two loft unit. I like that. That's going to get remodeled. Next thing you know, no one can afford this shit. So that's what happened here. These are all docks with shipping containers. We'll make houses out of the shipping containers. No problem. No big deal. It'll be shabby, chic, and trendy.

That's exactly what they did here, and they turned a thick, wooded, inhospitable area into a farming community. Inhospitable? You mean in that? No, it was inhospitable to farming. Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. Yes, they turned all this shit into farmland that worked.

They got crops out of it. They had a lot of hogs, too. They sold North Carolina. Still big in the pig business. Are they really? A shitload of pork comes from North Carolina. Oh, God. They've done, I've seen documentaries on it.

Is that where Smithfield is at? I have no idea. There's a shitload of pigs there. That's a huge business there. A lot of people have hog farms. That's interesting. There's huge corporate hog farms, family hog farms, all sorts of stuff. Also, tar. Yeah. They made tar there. A lot of people have hog farms. That's interesting. There's huge corporate hog farms, family hog farms, all sorts of stuff. Also, tar.

Yeah. They made tar there. Wow. You got to make tar? Pine pitch. Okay. Made from the pine forests of the county and timber from the thick virgin forests. Okay.

According to the town website that I wrote down verbatim. Gotcha. Yes. Yes. Because I didn't know either, so I needed to write it. Got it. I wanted to hear exactly from the town website. Gates County formed in 1779, named after General Horatio Gates.

Of course. Who commanded the American Army at the Battle of Saratoga in the Revolutionary War. Anyway, 1830s, they started building structures, things. They started just having a town, but nothing. It never really grew beyond what they had in the 1800s okay it's pretty much the same now as it was then minus you know people have laptops and shit and phones it's the same town it's still a lot of agriculture timber uh it's that sort of thing that yeah six of the nine uh largest manufacturers in the county all rely on

the timber business i just saw a guy in a Union soldier outfit scrolling the internet on his fucking iPad. That's probably what you're saying. Yeah, just sitting there going, ah, shit, we're stuck down here. North Carolina was Union, right? No, it was not. No, they weren't? They are absolutely not Union. No, they are 100% Confederacy.

Are they really? Fuck yes. I thought South Carolina was Confederacy. Both of them. Enjoy. But wasn't that why they split? No. Really? thought South Carolina was Confederacy. Both of them. Enjoy. But wasn't that why they split? No. Really?

They were just two separate states. Really? Are you? Yeah. I thought North Carolina. Wait a second. You thought. I thought North Carolina and South Carolina were opposites.

You thought it was just Carolina. Right. And then in the Civil War, they split like North and South Korea. Yes. They were Korea, and then they had the Korean War, and they split. So Kim Jong-un runs North Carolina, right? He runs North Carolina. That's right.

I thought that was true. They make Samsung products in South Carolina. That's how it works there. That is absolutely not true. 1,000% not true. Are you sure? I am positive about that. All right.

Absolutely. What the fuck? Why didn't they just have Carolina? Well, they have all sorts of shit like that. West and regular Virginia. But didn't they break up because of the Civil War? No, they had separate states. These are all separate states.

Assholes. The Civil War did not cause any new states to be formed out of existing states. I thought that was true. I promise you that. No, that's not true. Okay. That's fine, though. Jesus Christ. I just thought that. No, that's not true. Okay. That's fine, though. Jesus Christ.

I just thought South Carolina was racist Carolina. They're both racist Carolina. What are you kidding me? I sidetracked one second. My father lived in North Carolina. We went to visit him. I was like 22 years old. It was me and my ex-wife.

We went there, and it was nice at the time. We went in like march or april the weather was nice and they took us to a pig picking yes uh if you've ever been or pig picking as they said pig picking pig picking that's how it was proposed to me we're going to a pig picking i was like okay i guess we're going to a pig picking uh this is where uh uh redneck men non-camping james is going to a pig picking this is the is some of the best food I've ever had. Oh, of course. This is guys with whole huge hogs on giant outdoor huge barbecues

that me and you and three of our listeners could get on and be barbecued at the same time. Yeah. One of those. And there's multiple ones going and everybody brings food and they put that thin North Carolina barbecue sauce on. The drizzle all the way over the skin and they keep doing it and it melts in your mouth unbelievable yeah food was great having a great time a bunch of nice people my dad worked with at the time the racist shit

we sit down at the table out of nowhere someone just starts dropping the n-word left and right i know and then this one said this and that oh my god me and my wife were sitting there like, and she's kicking me under the table. I'm like, look, I don't hear this. What the fuck are we doing here? What are you trying to make me stop them? I'm not stopping them. What am I going to say? There's 20 people sitting here.

And they're like, everyone's nodding. Yep, I know. And then this one, I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? We're in a park. This isn't even in someone's house. This was in a public park. I'm like, what the fuck is happening in this place? Not saying that people aren't racist everywhere, but they are.

But I grew up in New York for years and years. I never had a group of people just sitting in a public park going, yep, N-word this and N-word that. It never happened before. So I was like, this is fucking shocking. Thanks a lot, Papa P. Never happened out here either. So I'm like, that's a little weird. Papa P drug you to this shit.

And we went to a swap meet and half of the tents were just Confederate memorabilia. Perfect. That's all it was. I'm shocked. That's all it was. I didn't know. I thought North Carolina. Old furniture and Confederate memorabilia.

I thought North Carolina hated slavery. I know. And I thought they were not. I think they were pro. Okay. I'm going to go with yes. A lot of farms there. A lot of tobacco growing.

And if not, a lot of South Carolina residents moved to bring their pig picking and Confederates flag slinging asses to where your dad is at. They corrupted it? Yeah, yeah. That's what happened there. I didn't know that. I apologize, North Carolina, because there are also nice parts of North Carolina. Yeah, yeah.

If you go to like, in Raleigh, there's nice outside of that suburb. Del Curry raised his family there. I'm sure it's fine, but rural, it's a little scary. Like everywhere in the South. I'm not going to fucking lie. It's very my cousin Vinny in a lot of the south like i'm not i'm not pulling off on this right out of your fucking mind i don't feel like that in other parts of the country is all i'm saying i just don't sorry i don't i don't feel like that at all i will i will pull off in the south bronx

and no problem before i'll pull off on some dark highway in the middle of north carolina somewhere why is darius rucker so proud to be from South Carolina then? That's crazy to me. I don't know. They hate you, sir. He likes Confederate memorabilia. There's a lot of black people there, too, though. Yeah, I'm sure.

And there's people who aren't assholes there. That's true. I mean, we're just going on. There's good people all over. There's stereotypes and experience. It's just one bad apple spoils the bunch. You know what I mean? That's true here.

And in this case, 20 at a pig picking. That's the fact. All right. It was a lot. That's nuts. And it wasils the bunch. You know what I mean? That's true here. And in this case, 20 at a pig picking. That's the fact. All right. It was a lot. That's nuts. And it was mostly the ladies, too. I can imagine. They were the ones like, mm-hmm, that's right.

What are you going to do, punch a lady for it? They're just, pip, pip, pip, pip. I was like, wow, you ladies are not nice. You make a fine potato salad, but you are not nice. You are not nice people. Really. Like, I'm eating their nice. Not nice people. Really. Like, I'm eating their food going, they make great food. I'm like, this is racist food.

Food's delicious when it's made with hate. It's the hate food, yeah. This is a nice hate salad you made here. It's excellent. There's so much grease in it. I like that. That's good. All right, let's buzz through the stats real quick because it's a tiny, tiny town, and these stats are really irrelevant on the small towns here.

Population is 302 people. So that right there, 302 people. That's going to ruin every stat. The stats are destroyed. The median age is about normal. The male and female, there's more males than females. It's a little bit out of whack here. Race of this town here, pretty white town, 88.26% white.

So that's mostly everybody, 8% black, 0.89% Asian, so that's like three people, literally. It's three. That's a family of Asians. It's legitimately, yeah. They have- And they have one kid. Yeah, it's two.

It's a mother-father kid. That's it. That's all. They came over. They're here. They're happy. I don't know why else, why they'd be in Gatesville. I don't know.

They can be wherever they want. I'm not saying that. They definitely can. They can go wherever they want, but Gatesville, get a couple more Asians as well. They definitely are allowed. They may not be able to. That's true. They may not have the money to do it. Hispanic,.18% Hispanic there. What is that? One guy? That's literally one

person. That's one dude. .18%. That's for sure one person. Hola. This one guy. Hey, Raul. Nice for sure one person hola sitting there by himself hey me and the three asians and the four black guys are gonna hang out i guess you know what i'm hoping i'm hoping that that latin fella married the asian lady and they have two kids that's what i want that's that's what i want to get your base yeah that's that'll work out babies and you've got a happy family. Pretty religious. More religious people here than normal.

Over 50%. Evangelicals. These are the evangelicals. No Catholic. 0% Catholic. 0% LDS. 0.0% Jewish. 0.0% Muslim.

I'm putting up with this shit. And if they are, they're not telling anyone in this town. Put it that way. I looked at the stats. It said there's two gay people in town oh like are they this was in a really broken down thing and i'm like are they i don't do they know that you know that they because i think they're probably they were trying to keep that shit a secret probably in this town i for their own good maybe i don't know maybe everyone's nice here i have no idea that's the thing i've never been here so i have no idea we'll talk about someone who isn't nice in a second here. There's at least one person that's an asshole.

You know there is. There has to be. Economy here, not too terrible, actually. Household income, $50,313, which is only $3,000 under the average. Not bad. Unemployment rate is normal with the rest of the country. Cost of living here, $100 is average here. It's 98. So everything's pretty average. Housing is an 83 out of 100, though. Not bad. Median home cost is $155,000, which is about $30,000 less than the national average. If you are looking, and if we've convinced you that you need to be in Gatesville, North Carolina, I don't know. Unfortunately, I have to be around you all the time for this. We have to be near each other. You're not moving there with me. I can't go. I want to be there. You want to be in Gatesville?

It sounds great. It sounds, well, let's see. Minus the racial undertones. But outside of that, it sounds- It's very small and nice and quiet. I like cheap houses. That's what I like. We have for you the Gatesville, North Carolina Real Estate Report.

My favorite. Let's do this. We have a two-bedroom apartment. The average here is about $790. I don't know how many two-bedroom apartments are available in a small town like that, but decent. I found a three-bedroom, one-bath, 1,300-square-foot little house. Nice little house, actually. Pretty nice little yard.

$110,000 for that, which isn't bad at all. It's a nice little starter home. Good stuff. Three-bedroom, one-bath, though. Three-bedroom, one-bath. Yeah, you're going to need to do a little remodeling if you want to have a family in there. You can add a bath and make some dough on that house. You can. You're not going to share your two kids with a bathroom with yourself.

It's not going to work here. I found a four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,000-square-foot house. Wow. Again, from the outside, very nice house. $165,000. That's great. That's very reasonable. Yeah. And then I found another one here. This165,000. That's great. That's very reasonable. Yeah.

And then I found another one here. This one has a little better with the amenities. It's nice on the inside. It's been redone. Three bedroom, three bath, 1,900 square foot house for $219,900. It's a little more luxurious for the area. You can remodel that four bedroom, though, and have it be much more worth than that one. Oh, you can hook that up.

Exactly. That's the bargain, guys. Go for that one. Things to do. Not a lot. Let's just say that. A lot of just go outside. That's what they said a lot.

Our outdoors are the best. It's not like go kayaking or they just go, go outdoors. They don't even say what to do. Stand on your stoop. The thing they talk about the most is Merchants Mill Pond State Park. That's the shit they talk about. Merchants Mill Pond? Mill Pond. One word. Oh, it's one word.

Merchants is one word and then Mill Pond. I don't even know what the fuck that is. Sounds like a pond that they run all the waste from the mill into. That's the Mill Pond. Just dump all that shit in the Mill Pond. Don't worry about it. It may be a shopping center or something? It could be. It actually is the Mill Pond? I don't know. Merchants Mill Pond State Park. Maybe that's the Mill Pond. Just dump all that shit in the Mill Pond. Don't worry about it. It may be a shopping center or something. It could be. It actually is the Mill Pond.

I don't know. Merchants Mill Pond State Park. Maybe that's a sponsor. Who knows? November 25th, we just missed it, guys. I'm very sad. It was the turkey shoot. Shit.

The last shoot of the year. With three exclamation points, the town website tells us. They are jacked. Shooting for turkeys, hams, sausage, whole pork loins, hot sausage, ribeye steaks, baby back ribs, Boston butt, shrimp, and the whole ribeye loin in capital letters. So you're shooting for that? Like, what are you shooting? I don't know.

Shotguns only. Is it a target shot? Or are you actually shooting the cow? It's a turkey shoot. Okay. But I don't know whether they're shooting for everything. So you're winning fucking cow meat too? You're shooting turkeys for other things. Yeah. It's a turkey shoot. Okay, but I don't know whether they're shooting for everything. So you're winning fucking cow meat too? You're shooting turkeys for other things. Yeah, it's shotguns only.

We provide the ammunition, which sounds fucking crazy. That's a deal. And it's come hungry because they have concessions. What the fuck? We missed it, but maybe next year. Sorry. Crime rate here. Here's something though. If you are near this town and you go to that, please take your smartphone and record the fuck out of this.

We want everything. I want to know everything. I want to know. First of all, record a guy handing you free ammunition. That's number one. And then we'll go from there. Somebody handing you Winchester shells. We'll go from there after that, let's just say here.

Crime rate in this town. Property crime is average. It's exactly average in the rest of the country. With this, I don't know if that's two people broken into cars. The crime rates are so silly to do in a small town. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, assault is average also. When there's like 20,000 people, you can really get into it. Or even 10 or even 5.

A 320, you're getting nothing out of that. There's really no way to dive into the stats. There's nothing to glean from that. So let's go back in time a little, Jimmy. Now we're across the country. We're in a town that time forgot. Let's go back in time in a time that town forgot. So we're way back in time now.

Did you get that? That's like back squared. It's so, so far. Yeah. It's like Bible times right now. Back squared. That's good. We're like a thousand years.

That is so clever. We're so far back. So back squared. So let's go back to August 18th, 1990. Okay. Okay. August 18th, 1990. And it's a summer night in a small town in North Carolina. It's hot. I figure a lot. I see a lot of porches, a lot of screen doors. I see a lot of screen doors in operation to keep those mosquitoes out. A lot of screen doors, a lot of people hanging out a lot of screen doors a lot of people hanging out uh i don't know 90 washington redskins are making a charge for the super bowl yes yeah that's a there was redskins fans down there but uh it's a college they don't give a shit about pro sports down there all right if you look at the newspaper it's like college college

college college and then the rest of the shit in the back they care about north carolina nc state duke wake forest everyone else can eat shit. Wake Forest is in North Carolina. It's right there, too. That's the triangle area. It's all right there. You can visit all those colleges in an afternoon. Fascinating. Gorgeous places, too.

But never mind that. That's two hours and 20 minutes away from here. Holy shit. That's in Raleigh. This is Raleigh-Durham area. This isn't, OK? Over here, so it's a nice summer night. Let's meet a guy named Daniel Oliver Croy.

Okay. Okay. Now, Daniel Croy, we talked about him for a second. He stopped by a little store. There's a little store. This is a small town thing. It's not a 7-Eleven. It's a general store.

Yeah, it's Rogers Grocery. Okay. It's like a little kind of convenience store. They have food. They have stuff like that. Roger is actually behind the counter. Rogers is their last name. Okay. So Roger is not behind the counter. You can't get roger is actually behind the counter rogers rogers is their last name so roger is not behind the counter you can't get any farther from roger behind the counter actually behind the counter is the owner uh min linda luong rogers oh boy

she's uh this is weird we've had this is our second asian woman in an episode yeah uh in a row which is strange this scares me because we always say that we go in and rob a little Asian lady. That's true. Good God. We say that in our disclaimer. This terrifies the fuck out of me. In our disclaimer, if you don't know, if you're just a new listener, a lot of times I'll say, hey, look, guys, just trying to make an analogy.

I'll say, it's like we're all going in to rob a liquor store. And whether you're going to pull the trigger or not, if you're in on the robbery and I pull the trigger, you're a murderer. That's just the way it works. The Asian lady's brain is all over the Marlboro. If you're in on the robbery and I pull the trigger, you're a murderer. That's just the way it works. The Asian lady's brain is all over the Marlboro's. It's your fault too. If I spray the Korean lady's brains all over the vodka behind her,

it's on. You're responsible for this. We don't mean that as anything against Asians. They just tend to honestly, statistically, they own a lot of stores. We went to LA a couple months ago. Every single store. I didn't buy anything from anybody that wasn't asian and that wasn't on purpose that's just it's just how it works out

yeah it's it's that you know happy smile convenience store and it's five asian people so you're like okay well what do you know so anyway cheerful donuts just happened to be run by a little asian girl that's it so uh min uh min we're gonna have to call her min because her daughter is also hangs out at the store with her. It's a family-run business. And a lot of these family-run businesses, the parents work there. The kids spend their evenings there. I worked in pizza places growing up.

And you see the kids. And they'd come from after school. They'd help out. And when it was slow, they'd be doing their homework at an empty table over there. And then they would make some pizza boxes. I love it. Whatever. They got into it. They were helping out. They'd be doing their homework at an empty table over there, and then they would make some pizza boxes and whatever. But whatever.

They got into it. They were helping out. Her 16-year-old daughter, Linda, is also here. Okay. So they're both Linda. It's strange. It's Linda Jr. It's Linda Jr.

And also, too, her actual name is Min Linda. Okay. So they're both Min Linda, which is strange. Got it. So they're going to go Mother Min. Mother Min and Daughter Min. It's M-I-N-H. I hope it's going to be Min Linda, which is strange. Got it. So they're going to go mother Min. Mother Min and daughter Min. It's M-I-N-H. I hope it's going to be Min. That's definitely Min.

Ho Chi Min was M-I-N-H. I know, but you know what? I'm so fucking paranoid. I swear to God. The word Iowa in Louisiana is not pronounced Iowa. You know what I'm saying? Letters mean nothing. That's the thing. Letters

mean nothing anymore. It's just how people feel at the time. They don't care. That's how we pronounce it. Oh, okay, then I'm the asshole. Sorry. All I did was read words. Oh, I'm the asshole. Okay, I was just reading. What am I, an asshole? I apologize. This is why we have language, so we can all agree on shit, and then when we have proper

nouns, people get to fucking pronounce them any way they want, and you screw up the whole goddamn process. We need to agree on that shit, too. Sorry. I'm have proper nouns, people get to fucking pronounce them any way they want. You screw up the whole goddamn process. We need to agree on that shit, too. Sorry. I'm fucking sorry. We're going to have an approved list of fucking names you can choose from. That's it. M-I-N-H is Min. It's Min. Right. So Min, we have Min and Linda.

Min, mother, Linda, daughter. 16 years old. Okay. So back to Daniel Croy. Daniel Croy stops by Roger's Grocery on this evening, summer evening here. You know, he goes into the store. And I see this as like they know each other. Yeah. There's 320 people.

It's hard not to know somebody. If you run the store, like the grocery store. You better know everybody. Otherwise, your marketing sucks. Yeah. You know everybody there. So they all know each other. This Mr. Croy here, he stops in after dinner that evening.

He says, ah, tells his family I'm going to take a wander down to the store here and get a couple beers or something. So, hey, it's a summer night. What the hell? Going to go have a couple beers. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little more about thegreatcoursesplus.com. Oh, my goodness, guys. Now I'm in trouble, basically.

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I think that's the one. All right. And now back to the show. He hangs out at the store for a while. Drinking beers? Drinking beer. Weird. He says he, quote, drank some beer, sat around, and talked with the owner and her daughter. drinking beer weird he says he quote drank some beer sat

around and talked with the owner and her daughter okay that's what he did he just hung out and that's it's a small town yeah and there's no internet is that think about that is there something they do in small towns that's so 1990 yeah the cake even cable is good i don't know if cable would be in this small town probably not probably would have to have a dish or else you're getting three channels and two of them are fucking fuzzy. Yeah. Two of them are fuzzy and you also get a UHF station that plays nothing but a fat guy playing the banjo.

From two towns over. That's it. That's it. Jesus Christ. Him. Chet again with his fucking banjo. Again? This fucking guy.

This guy ever get tired? Christ almighty. It's just the Chet banjo channel. That's what we got. All right. Well, he's wearing different overalls today. At least that's good. Something different. Chet.

I don't know. And it says Chet on the overalls. For sure. And on the bottom of the screen, he got some good after effects on there. It just says Chet in cursive. That's the name of the show. Just Chet, and he's playing. Doesn't sing.

No. Just plays the banjo. But he can pick like a motherfucker. Well, he knows like four songs, too. But he mixes them up, so you don't notice. That's how it works. He's really good. People like it. Leaves you waiting for that dueling banjos. But he can pick like a motherfucker. Well, he knows like four songs, too, but he mixes them up so you don't notice. That's how it works. He's really good. People like it.

Leaves you waiting for that dueling banjos. He does. He's good. You want to hear his part. Yeah. So anyway, he's there. He's drinking beer. He's talking to them.

Yeah. Small town shit. He's got nothing else to do. Yeah. What the fuck else is he going to do? There's 320 people, no TV. Turkey shoots not until a few more months. No internet.

This guy's porn supply was excessively limited. So low. So low. So low. I mean, if you wanted to buy a Playboy or something, you'd have to buy it from this lady who you have to talk to all the time. She knows what he tugs to. Oh, God. He's got to go on those off-the-interstate truck stops that were just triple-X buildings. Remember those?

Yeah. We don't really have those anymore because we have the internet now. But just a building full of smut. That's all it was. Just here on the side of the road. It says, like, couple shop. Yeah. Not even couple shop.

It just says DVD videos. That's it. Or videos, triple X. There's one in New Mexico that says couple's shop on the side, and it's all purple. With 18 wheelers outside of it. And then above it, in different colored letters, somebody went and wrote adult. Just so you know. I'm done having these babies in the fucking shop.

These middle school kids, they're coming right from the Sadie Hawkins dance right over to the couple shop. I don't know what the fuck they're doing. They come in, I got to kick them out. Little girls have dildos. I got to take it out of their hands. It's not right. It's not right. I can't know what the fuck they're doing. They come in, I gotta kick them out. It's fucking hysterical. Little girls have dildos. I gotta take them out of their hands. It's not right. It's not right. I can only sell this to adults. Listen, get out there and put adults. I only got

white paint, Paul. I don't have purple left. Get that shit on the building. You write it right now. Right now. Oh, God. It's fucking amazing. I ran out of letters. I don't care. Adults spelled wrong. it's hastily written it's written so fast yeah just quick five parties scared shitless so good this old man we've really created a narrative with this family that runs this that runs this i don't know this theoretical pawn shop or porn shop on

the side of the road. But that's where this guy is either there or here. He's got nothing to whack to. He's here. What are you going to do? Nothing to tug. He's going to tug. Maybe he's got it in for the Asians.

So I'm going to get a seedling for later. Maybe she'll bend over stocking the tomatoes and I'll get some spank meat. You never know. That's what he's hoping for. You never know what he's doing here. But he's just hanging out. We don't know that. He's just hanging out. He's what he's hoping for. You never know what he's doing here. But he's just hanging out. We don't know that. He's just hanging out.

He's relaxing. During this time, a white, as described as a white, stocky male of medium height that's 30 to 35 years of age, which is most of North Carolina. I feel like that describes pretty well. Probably about 75% of this town. Yeah. So he enters the store, makes some purchases, and then he talks for a few minutes. Like everybody goddamn knows each other. This guy, Croy, didn't hear what they were talking about. I feel like there's like a table in the back.

They're sitting there drinking. That's so weird. I don't know how it's not against the law to drink beer in the store. That's where I'm going with it. Every state I've ever seen, it's like, don't drink this beer until you get outside. The hell off my premises before you open that. You can't be drinking, but it's 320 people. Right.

What are we talking here? Who's it hurting? Who's going to tell? Right. Who's going to see? Who's going to tell? Who's going to see? Oh, Daniel Croy was drinking beer in the store.

Oh, God. But then you've got about 60 other people in town that do the same shit. And if they tell on Dan, then everybody else is fucked too. Everybody's screwed. So this guy, he chats it up with Min for a while also. The daughter's kind of doing her thing in the back room. I think she's doing homework or something. Not homework, it's summer.

But she's doing some. She's 16. She's probably back there. She's being a 16-year-old back there. Being a 16, I was going to say she's texting and she's not texting because it's 1990. She's probably on the phone. She's tweezing her eyebrows or some shit. Screwing around doing something.

I don't know. Actually, who knows? Maybe her mother's really strict on her and she's back there doing calculus equations i have no idea what's going on or some shit oh that's a ladies and gentlemen putting together some nikes jesus christ the thing is before don't press tweet yet hold on one second wait one second it's at wisman sucks by the way is where you want to send that not at murder small but uh but one second here before you press tweet he meant that as a shot at nike right that's the right i know jimmy and i speak fluent jimmy okay he'll say

shit and you gotta know what did you mean right and if he meant to slur i'd say he's just that was a little off color and you were off the you missed the target by a drop on it but it's fine i'm punching nike in the mouth but he actually is taking a shot at nike that she's an underage right asian girl and she would be putting Nikes together. Not that all an Asian can do is make Nikes. That's not what he said. They do seem to enjoy it, though. From the footage I've seen, that's obviously not.

Obviously, I'm kidding there. So this gentleman, he chats it up. He makes his purchases. He heads out the door. He does his thing. Mr. Croy says that the man who came in and left, he had a mustache and he was wearing a baseball cap. So he's a stocky white guy, medium height, 30 to 35 years old, wearing a baseball cap. That's very general.

It's very generic, that description here. Mr. Croy leaves the grocery store at about 8.45 p.m. So he hung out for a while. He came after dinner. So I can't imagine they eat some late dinners here. He's probably been there for two hours, for Christ's sake. That's crazy. The Asian ladies are probably ready to get rid of this fucking guy.

Dude, just fucking get your beer and leave. Get Drunky McCroy out of the goddamn store already, for Christ's sake. He's a town drunk that goes and locks himself in jail at night like a barney. I think that's what he does. And they get him in the morning like, how you feeling? And he's like, my head hurts, but I'm all right. What was his name? Was it, whatever. I never watched the show, but I know who you what he does. And they get him in the morning like, how you feeling? And he's like, oh, my head hurts. But all right. What was his name? Was it? Ah, whatever.

I never watched the show, but I know what you're talking about. It's from old, from references from other old jokes and shows. The only way I know that. I think it's Andy Griffith's show that the guy would come and lock himself in. Yeah, yeah. I think so, too. I forget his name, though. I don't know.

He was drunk. Well, everyone will tell us. Don't tell us. We'll know by then. We don't care. Well, plus we'll find out before then. Right. So don't bother. I'll Google it on the way out. It's like six days from now. Don't tell us. We'll know by then. We don't care. Plus, we'll find out before then. Right. So don't bother.

I'll Google it on the way out. It's like six days from now. So it's fine. So anyway, he leaves the store, Daniel Croy, probably tipsy. He gets in his car and he's backing out of his parking space, which I'm sure he's... In small towns, by the way, everybody drives drunk. That's the other thing. That's very common.

Nobody gives a shit. They're like, well, there's like two cops and one's there and I know Bob's eating tonight. So, you know, he's going out with his wife tonight. And when they drive drunk, they drive insane drunk. Oh, yeah. I have cousins that live in, I'm saying this from experience, I have cousins that live in rural Pennsylvania. They drive through the woods places in

normal cars. They'll just drive through the fuck because they're shit-faced. They're like, hey, just take the woods. And I'm like, take the woods in the fucking dark. Just take a fucking road. Are you nuts? No, you drink it. It doesn't matter. You just drive screaming through the woods in the pitch black.

This is safe. This is good. There's a trail. Oh, OK. All right. No problem. The other thing, you said that he left and the stocky gentleman was still in the store, The stocky guy left before.

Oh, he's already long gone. He came and gone. Yeah, a couple people came in. This was one of them. He came and left and did his thing. So he figured that guy didn't think, Croy didn't think another thing about the other guy. So Croy is allegedly and probably drunkenly backing out of his parking space,

trying not to hit anything, making sure there's no little kids behind him or anything. Oh, shit, a big wheel. Oh, no. That's everybody's nightmare. If you're ever tipsy at all and backing up, there's going to be a big wheel. Right, a ball bouncing out in front of you when you're driving down the road, a little bit buzz. That's everybody's nightmare if they're ever tipsy at all and backing up. There's going to be a big wheel. Right.

A ball bouncing out in front of you when you're driving down the road, a little bit buzz. It just bounces out. You will smell rubber for two days when I drive through there because I will hammer the brakes. Don't drive drunk. Terrified. Oh, no, no, no. Small town murder, Tiff. Don't drive drunk.

So as he's driving, backing out of the space, the man he had seen inside with the baseball cap and the mustache drives up beside him in his car. Okay. Pulls into the parking lot, drives up beside him on the driver's side of Daniel Croy's car. So this man tells Daniel Croy that he's, quote, an SBI agent, which is State Bureau of Investigation for the state of North Carolina. Or a drunk man saying FBI. Yeah, FBI. How are you? That's great.

Why don't you go get some porn DVDs down there? So he says he's, quote, working with the DEA on a big drug deal that was going down in the area. And he says at one point this man with the mustache asks Daniel Croy if he would like to see his credentials. So he was like, I don't know, sure, whatever, I guess, if you're offering. So what he does, this man, is he holds up a pump shotgun and says, quote, there's my credentials. That's what he says. So Daniel Croy said, well, have a good one there. Howdy there.

Good credentials. Ciao. And he backs up and he's like, have a good one there. Howdy there. Some good credentials. Ciao. And he backs up and he's like, have a good one. So he left the store. He leaves the parking lot, Daniel Croy, and he says he remembers as he pulled out that the lights were still on in the store and he assumed they were still open. Now, let's talk about another few people here. Daniel didn't even have like a, oh, look at mine. No, he was just like, oh, shit.

Daniel's probably SBI also. Yeah, well, I'm SBI too. What do you think of that? Look at these. Here's my credentials. probably sbi also yeah well i'm sbi too what do you think of that look at these here's my credentials got his cock in his hand yeah what do you think of that he's a drunk man he's in the south he's got a shotgun on the back of his truck for sure probably well maybe he knows better because he's shit he's like i'm gonna get shit face tonight i better keep the fire things can get really out of hand. I'm going to have a Vietnam flashback. That's very mature and responsible. Yeah.

Min and Linda there are going to have a good time if I have a Nam flashback while I'm drinking beer in the store. That's going to be bad news. I'm leaving the shotguns at home today. I'm drinking around Asians. Can you imagine? I don't know if he was in Nam. He's going to have a fucking meltdown. That was unbelievable.

That's probably his train of thought. And the next thing you know, he's going to spray a poor Asian lady's brains all over the vodka back there. So anyway, there's Harold Lowe. Harold Lowe, he's sitting with his girlfriend, Kathy Winslow, and a guy named Chris Bailey. They're all sitting in their car outside of the grocery store, Rogers Grocery. This place is popular. It's popping. It's 9.30 p.m.

They're parked under a streetlight facing the highway. They're waiting for their friend. They're meeting a person there. I assume to buy weed because that's what you do when you buy weed. So I feel like they're buying weed. In 1990, a dude paged him and he got back to him and he said, meet me down at the grocery store. I'll be down at Rogers.

Yeah, park under the light. I'll meet you there, whatever. So they do that. We have no idea, but it's possible. They're waiting for a guy named Will Harrell to arrive. After a few minutes, Harrell Lowe from the car sees Min Rogers inside. She exits the store with a white male who Lowe doesn't know. He knows the one,

how many Asians do we say? Three. We found them. Actually, we got two of them. The father is not Asian. The father's name is Timothy Rogers. So that is un-Asian as you can get.

I don't know. Maybe his mother's Asian. I'm not sure. I feel like, I feel like he was in the service and he likes, uh, he got a little taste for some Asian tail and he came back over here and he was like, I'm going to find me an Asian girl and bring her to a tiny town

and make her work in a grocery store with my daughter you think you don't go black when you go you don't think you go back when you go black try going Asian and see where the hell you go there Timothy's like you go to Gatesville, North Carolina and you open up a grocery store with this person that's what you do, that's love right there

oh my god, fairytale we're saying it's love, he's going to fall in love want to move to a small town, have kids and run a grocery store that's what we're. That's love right there. Oh, my God. We're not saying sexual. We're saying it's love. He's going to fall in love, want to move to a small town, have kids and run a grocery store. That's what we're saying. It's a sweet thing. It's a sweet thing. That's all it is. It's not.

So they're waiting for this Will Harrell. They see this guy. They see them leave together. They see Lowe and Winslow and Bailey see Min and this white man talk outside the store for a few minutes. And then Min Rogers reenters the building. She goes back inside into the store. Bailey, Chris Bailey, said that he noticed the man here walking from the store toward a white car parked in the parking lot.

So he looked like he was walking away. He says that so they just ignored it. And a few moments later, they were super surprised and a little bit shocked when they see when they see him walking toward their vehicle with a shotgun in his hand. They're like, well, this is interesting. This isn't our friend. And I don't think he has weed. No, it does not look chill at all. See his credentials.

Holy shit. They're huge. Now, all this is going on. Bailey sees this from the backseat, but Lowe is in the front seat, and he doesn't see any of this. He's looking for his friend. He's super shocked when this guy with the shotgun pops into the window. He just shows up. Now, when he pops into the window, he doesn't brandish his shotgun.

He pops in with what he described, Lowe described as, quote, some kind of identification with a picture. So he just said that. He said he was an agent with the DEA, and he said undercover officers were preparing to execute a drug bust in the immediate vicinity in an effort to seize over $1.5 million worth of cocaine. They usually tell people that. Very specific. Yeah, usually when cops have a whole thing, they go to anyone around and they say, this is exactly what we're doing.

We have 12 men, one on the roof, one over here. They tell you everything that's going on. All the logistics. They don't just tell you, move along, it's a crime scene or we're doing something, get the fuck out of here. That's what they say. They don't say, you'll read about it tomorrow in the paper. What are you doing? None of your business. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, you'll read about it in the paper. Get out of here. That's what they would say.

But here, this is what he tells them. Just want to let you know that. These people didn't go over to him and say, hey, is anything going on? And he said, actually, that's not what happened. There's millions of dollars of coke everywhere that's not what they didn't say is there a bunch of coke around here because we don't want to be around the bust if it happens that's not what happened at all he just popped into the window okay he then tells the man with the uh the dea sbi uh unidentified agent here he then tells low that if low does not want to be an accessory to the crime the the cocaine seizure,

that he and his friends should get the fuck out of here immediately. Hit the bricks or you're going to be an accessory to the crime, which seems like an odd threat right there. It's like, these are just people sitting in a parking lot. This is so weird. Now, Will Harrell, he ends up stopping by the grocery store here at Rogers Grocery at 9.50 p.m. After that,

he says he goes into the store. He saw Min, who he recognized as the owner, and she was talking to a white male that he didn't know, a medium build, 5'10", wearing a plaid shirt and a baseball cap with a mustache. So this is a familiar face. This is two hours after he left and the whole deal. So Will Harrell does not hook up with these people

because they had to leave because they were forced from the premises at the threat of being an accessory to a cocaine empire. They don't want to be Pablo Escobar of Gatesville. Under the threat of being Scarface over here. So they had to leave. So he just, Harold said, that's what he saw. He leaves. He goes home.

That's that. Nothing else happens. Nobody's around. Nothing else happens. The next morning is August 19 august 19th 1990 uh john lambert is a part-time employee at rogers grocery he works there it's nice they hire somebody on the side you know they all these family businesses have like the one guy who's like the schlep guy right it was like yeah this guy carries shit in and does all that

so john lambert is the part-time employee of the Rogers Grocery. They hire this guy. He shows up for work at 9 a.m. He's supposed to open the store. Right. That's his job. He gets there, realizes he left his key at home. Oh. Son of a bitch.

God damn it. I can't open shit. Can't open shit. Luckily, not a real big town. So if you lose your key at home, you leave your key at home. It's not a pressing issue. You'll be back in 10 minutes. It's.4 square miles. Yeah.

You'll be back in 10 minutes. It's not a big deal. So'll be back in 10 minutes. It's.4 square miles. Yeah, you'll be back in 10 minutes. It's not a big deal. So he goes and he finds the key. So he comes back to the store with the key when he turns it and opens it and turns the lock over. He says that it didn't make the usual clicking sound that it makes when you open it. Then he realized it didn't because

it was unlocked. It was open overnight. It had been left open. He didn't have to go get his key. No, he could have just walked in, but he just went to his pocket. Shit, don't have my key. He ends up coming. So he's like, oh, this is weird. He opens the door and he finds something quite horrific here. Oh, I can't imagine.

Yes, he finds Min and Linda, both. They're both dead. The crime scene is pretty bad, too. It's a bad one here. Linda is naked. The daughter, the 16-year-old, too. It's a bad one here. Linda is naked. Oh, Christ. The daughter, the 16-year-old, has no clothes on at all. She's on her back in a large pool of blood all around her neck and shoulders and abdomen,

just in a huge pool of blood, has a very large gunshot wound in her upper chest. Damn it. And also the teeth in her mouth were shattered from gunshots. Yeah. That's not a pistol. That sounds like a 12-gauge. That sounds like a shotgun. Maybe they used it at the turkey shoot on November 25th.

Good God. Maybe. Who knows? Maybe to go to the turkey shoot and you'll find the murderer. Maybe that's how they did it. So now Min, she was found, the mother, she's found on a lounge chair behind the counter. She was fully, the mother, she's found on a lounge chair behind the counter. She was fully clothed. Her sweater had been pulled up a little bit just below the breast area, like not over them, just below them.

Just exposing the belly? Yeah, and her shorts were unzipped and pulled down. Oh, my God. Which is odd. And she was covered in blood also, obviously. She was dead and had a gunshot wound, as we'll find out a little more about that here. From the medical examiner, the chief medical examiner for the state of North Carolina, Dr. Paige Hudson, did the autopsies on the whole deal. And Min had a gunshot wound to her head that he said caused massive destruction of the skull and brain.

Obviously, the shot was fired from a very short distance, two to four feet. Holy hell. Two to four feet. There was sperm present in the... That doesn't happen when you get shot. That's in Linda, the daughter. There was sperm present in the... That would be a really gross gun that I don't want any part of.

I don't want that gun at all. No, sperm in the vaginal cavity of Linda. She had been sexually assaulted just prior to her death is what they find out. Not even afterwards. I don't know if that's better or worse, but neither, I guess. It's just horrible. I would just rather he doesn't do that. Yeah.

He classified her wound as, quote, a shotgun wound to the undersurface of the chin and neck. Oh, Jesus. So basically put and neck. Oh, Jesus. So basically put it under. Oh, my God. And did that after he assaulted her. Terrible. This person. This is horrific, obviously.

This is as fucking cold as it gets. This is cold-blooded shit right here. Holy shit. Mother and daughter. I mean, and they looked around, too. The money had been taken out of the register and things like that. Oh, God. This looks like a robbery out of the register and things like that. Oh, God. This looks like a robbery gone excessively awry.

Holy shit. That's an understatement. And also, you know, add rape into it also, which makes it – takes it to a – that takes it to a whole other level. I mean, robbery is one thing. You're going to go rob a grocery store? Whatever. I mean, people shoot someone during a robbery. Obviously, it's a horrible, scummy, terrible thing you could do.

But I at least get the mindset of what they're saying, what they're doing. But to then rape and kill someone, that's not utilitarian. You're not, I'm getting money and I don't want this person to identify me, so I'm killing them. You're like, I'm going to also— Take something horribly selfish for just—there's nobody benefiting from that at all. Well, yeah, he is. Yeah, that's what I mean. That's all he's doing.

It's so selfish and so cold and so gross. And he's like, fuck, I'm going to kill him anyway. And she's fucking 16. 16 years old. That's the other thing. What a pile of garbage. Yeah, and fucking awful. What a monster.

The whole thing is awful. And the murder itself is so... It's underneath the chin like that. And pointless. And brutal. Vicious. Yeah, that's so vicious. It's cold-blooded, man.

So terrible. That's not even like even mafia style would be better than that. Oh, Jesus. Maybe shot in the back of the head or something. This is fucked. That's just cold-blooded. That's fucking face on. And having no disregard.

No. Just this is a 16-year-old girl. Right. Don't care. No. I'm going to do whatever I want to her and then, eh, shotgun under the chin. That's fine. Destroy your whole thing.

Whoever did this is a monster, obviously. They talked to a shitload of witnesses and based on some other evidence, they come up with a suspect. Yeah? The SBI? The SBI comes up with a suspect. It is Jerry Wayne Connor is who they hone in on here.

Jerry Wayne Connor is a guy who's just kicking around. He's a truck driver up to that point. Do you know what the most popular name of a murderer is? Jerry? Wayne. Wayne. Wayne is the most popular name to be involved in any murder. There's a couple Jerry Wayne Connors that are murderers, too.

It might be Jerry Wayne. Jerry Wayne. There's a couple Jerry Wayne Connors as murderers, too. So that's the other thing. That's crazy. It's fucking nuts. Don't name your kid Wayne. Don't name your kid Wayne. Don't name your kid Wayne.

Or Jerry. Especially not Jerry Wayne. Name him Jerry. Name him Wayne. Don't name him Jerry Wayne. Let's go with Wayne Jerry. Maybe that's better. That doesn't sound like a murderer, does it?

No. No, that sounds like a guy who knows how to play the guitar. A fucking hell of a salesman. Yeah, yeah. I'm Wayne Jerry. How you doing? Nice to meet you. Call me Dub J.

I feel like he could sell you vinyl siding on your house, even though you don't want vinyl siding at all. I feel like he's going to tell you the good parts of vinyl siding. My house is brick, yeah, but listen about this vinyl. So they bring in this Jerry Wayne Conner fellow here. He's 25 years old. He's just kind of a local dirtbag. Drives a truck, hangs out,

kind of on the edges of the underworld as much as you could get around this area. Fringe fellow. Kind of a fringe guy. We've come across a lot of these fringe guys. It doesn't make him a murderer. No, no, no. I know plenty of fringe guys that don't murder anybody. It kind of elevates your suspect

level. It makes you a little suspicious. A little more suspicious. Deputy Sheriff George Ryan and Hertford County Sheriff Ronnie Stallings questioned Connor concerning the murders here. They talked to him. He first tries to say, I don't know what you're talking about, does a little misleading. I was over here. I was over there. Then after a little while, he starts having a story and a timeline of the evening.

Oh, this is interesting. Let's go over his timeline, shall we? He says that a few days before that, the 14th of August, he was fired from his job as a truck driver at Rose Brothers. So now he's an unemployed truck driver living in the middle of nowhere in North Carolina. Been fired from every job I've ever had. Doesn't make you a terrible person. That's fine.

Especially truck drivers are hard. Oh, my Christ. I would be terrible at that. They would fire me in 15 fucking minutes. So I'm not saying, believe me, I'm not saying, how do you get a dummy get fired from a truck? I would fuck that truck up, ruin the gears, I'd back into something. I have no confidence in my truck driving ability. Catch me driving it to the bank, some shit.

Why do you have that at the bank? I am more impressed when I see a guy back an 18 wheeler up. Oh, my God. It's amazing. I'm more impressed by that than open heart surgery. I really am. I'm fucking. I can't even imagine the one that I'm impressed with is when they can back that thing up across

like six. They will stop traffic just by pulling that bitch into the middle of the road. It's amazing. And then they will back it up with zero stress. They don't give a shit. I'm so impressed by that. Honestly, open hearts. Those guys, they go to school. They go to medical school and residency for years.

All this training, all this shit. These guys have a two-week course and they can whip this 18 wheeler. Wow, that is good stuff. So I don't fault him for that at all here. But he said he stopped at the Fast Fair in Murfreesboro, which is a store in Murfreesboro nearby. He says that he engaged in an extensive conversation with a black male who he didn't know personally but had seen around the area on numerous occasions. I love this. Yeah, I'm going to blame a black guy.

He's going to pull a Susan Smith. He's going to pull a Susan Smith. Yeah, I'm going to pull a Susan Smith here. I don't know. A big black guy took the car back. Crazy. Crazy. It's nuts. I don't know anything about it.

What an asshole. Huge, scary. I don't know. They had their dicks out. I was terrified. Totally. Gave them my kids. Didn't care.

Oh, it was me? Shit. Never mind. So he says he talked to this guy. He says this guy was six foot tall, about 240 pounds. He was in his 30s with slightly graying hair. And he said basically this black guy asked him, asked Conor, if Conor was interested in making some quick, quote, illegal money. Oh, boy.

He offered this unidentified black male, offers Conor, doesn't know this man, but offers him $7,000. Oh, yeah. $7,000 in 1990 in the middle of nowhere in North Carolina, which you could probably buy a trailer, to quote, kill a Japanese woman who ran a store in Gates County. Oh, that is so specific. By the way, a black man that has seven grand in his pocket is going to enlist the help of a white man in the South to kill somebody for him. To kill an Asian in another county. Of course, that's going to happen for sure.

Who doesn't do that? That's the normal course of events, right? A black man in the South is going to trust a white man he doesn't know. That's the other thing, too, down South. I will say about this, which I found very strange. In the city cities, it's not so much, but it's fucking segregated down there. It's not segregated by law, but it's

segregated. If you're a white guy, you don't go into that restaurant because they don't fucking want you in there and they won't serve you in there. They'll ignore your ass. And if you're a black guy, and if you're a black guy, you don't go into that restaurant because they don't fucking want you in there and they're going to be a dick to you. And it's not like

you're not allowed to by law, but people down there, they know. If you want to be treated right and actually have a nice dining experience, you're going to go where they're nice to you. That's the thing. And it's not all of the places, but there are some places that it's like it's kind of just known locally that that's for black people, that's for white people. I found that so fucking weird.

But in defense of black people down there that would do that, I don't fucking blame them. I don't blame them. Those white people were assholes to them for hundreds of years. Fuck them. I'm not feeding you shit. Get out of here. And then we know that on the other side, they haven't wanted them in restaurants ever.

Right, because they're assholes. So, yeah. That's true. Because they're still assholes. They're still assholes. Yeah, but now everybody's an asshole. Right. That's just the other part.

If you're going to be an asshole, we're assholes too then. Fuck you. Okay. Let's have a standoff. Everybody's having a standoff. Can't blame them at all. It's very weird. But, so, yeah, he says he's going there.

He talks to this guy. Now, Connor told the guy, obviously, he wasn't interested. I'm a fine, upstanding citizen. I'm looking for more truck driving work. You should see me back into a fucking spot. Top notch is what I'm saying here. So he said, I'm not interested at all. I'm taking off.

But, you know, he just lost his job. He said financial problems began to arise. Oh, weird. First of all, the murder took place on the 18th of August. This is on the 14th of August. And he said he was fine when he refused the hit. And then he said that sometime between then and the 18th, financial problems began to arise.

I mean. Just magically, in the next four days, his life is just shit. You know, the stock market tanked this morning. I had everything out there. I was doing shit. You know, the stock market tanked this morning. I had everything out there. I was doing great. You know, I diversified. I tried. But there was some shit I had to go heavy on.

And, you know, that's what it is. That's all it is. Now I'm fucked. Four days can change a life down there, man. He's like, he had 30 bucks in his pocket on one day, and then he didn't the next day. He's like, oh, shit, I need more beer. So then he's like, OK. Where did that black fella go with that seven grand yeah so what he says is uh connor says he drove back to murphy's borough to

try to find this guy where is the black guy who's offered me seven thousand fucking dollars he says he's unable to find him every asked around can't find him no one knows where this guy is which is when you're looking for a guy to hire to hire you for hey you want to ask around you want to get as many people as you can to know that you two are looking for each other trying to hook up. Blanket the neighborhood. Get word on the street. That we are in cahoots. That's what you want to do.

And possibly murders afoot. We'll see. So what he does, what Connor does here, because he's a bright man, obviously, he says, what I'll do is, I can't find him, but that guy really wanted her dead. So what I'll do is, I'll go kill her, and I'll just go try to get the money later. I'll just go kill her on spec. He told the cops this shit?

This is what he's telling the cops. He said, I'll just go kill her on spec. And then hopefully that check will show up. And then I'll find him, and he'll be real excited, and he'll give me $7,000. Because he offered it once. What if that's not even the Japanese lady that he was aiming for? That's the other thing. He just, there's, well, there's three Asians in the entire town.

So he was like, that's the Asian. There she is. There she is. There's why I found them. There's the grocery store. That's it. Yeah. Pictures just like the little map pinpoint thing going out.

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But hold on a second. Back up one second here. Pardon? You didn't get just a sec, just a go ahead on that one. Just I'm going to go. So he said he drove on August 18th, Saturday. He drives to Gates County, finds the grocery store. He said he goes in. He leaves quickly, though, doesn't stick around too long because there were several customers inside.

Several customers. He just didn't feel like this was the correct time. If you're going to kill people, you've got to wait until they're alone anyway. I'm sure he went at like 4 o'clock in the afternoon. And he probably wants to impress the black guy with how clean and zero suspects. Maybe he'll get a bonus. Right. I mean, 7,000. If he does it well, maybe he'll get eight. Maybe he'll get a bonus. Right. I mean, $7,000, if he does it well, maybe he'll get $8,000.

Maybe he'll get $10,000. You never know. This guy seemed like he had a lot of money and he wanted Japanese people dead. I want dead Asians and I have money to spend, God damn it. And Conor's really thinking. He's trying to get, he's got money problems, James. Financial problems, quote, began to arise. So he's got issues.

Financial problems arising quote, began to arise. So he's got issues. Financial problems arising. So what he does, he says the next several times he drove by, he kept driving by, and he said there was always vehicles in the parking lot. Then he said finally he found it relatively empty, parked his car, went into the store carrying his 12-gauge pump sawed-off shotgun with pistol grip. Sawed-off. Sawed-off with pistol grip. Holy shit. This guy looks like he means fucking business. If you've got the pistol grip shotgun that's sawed-off, I mean, if you're walking around with a sawed-off shotgun with pistol grips on it, you're either going to kill an Asian woman on spec or, I don't know, you're going to stick up a gang of drug dealers on it.

Maybe you're Omar. You're going to come in. Omar doesn't really, I mean, he's got the sawed off. He'll do it because he likes to put it down. But I mean, that's the thing. You're either one or the other, I feel like on this. And judging by Omar, that means you mean business. I feel like maybe this guy, maybe I changed my mind.

Maybe he's not trying to murder anybody. Maybe he's just in the words of Omar. Maybe he just quote, robs drug dealers. He asked Omar what he does. He goes, I robs drug dealers. I robs drug dealers. Like in court, enunciates it. Unbelievable. He said that in court with a tie just kind of leaning around his neck.

He just kind of tied it loosely on the inside. And they were asking him what he does for a living. And he's like, I rip and run. I robs drug dealers. That's a much better definition. They go, rip and what he does for a living. And he's like, I rip and run. I robs drug dealers. That's a much better definition. They go, rip and run? I don't understand. I robs drug dealers.

Okay, then. That explains it. That's so specific. And then he told on everybody that murdered people. I saw him and he shot that guy. Totally full of shit. Amazing. But you know what?

Bird needed it. He needed to put that crew behind bars. And then Wee Bay ends up in jail. And what does Wee Bay do? Wee Bay's a stand-up soldier. He ends up taking the rap for like 20 murders. He committed like three of them. But he's like, I'll take the murders for the whole fucking crew because I'm going down. I'm going down. I don't give a fuck. I'm going down. I'm going away for life. He agreed to life, no parole. So he's like, I did that one. I did that one, too.

Wow. They were just naming people. He's like, yup, me, too. That was me. Wee Bay, straight gangster. Yeah, that lady, too. I killed her. And He's like, yep, me too. That was me. Weave a straight gangster. Some other person. Yeah, that lady too. I killed her. And he's like eating shit. He's like, they did the thing, what they do with cops. They'll give you food that you want from the outside.

They'll confess to murder. Beautiful. He's just eating like chicken being like, I killed her too. Yep, that one's mine. Took him off for everybody. But this isn't that guy. Okay. This is a guy.

So he goes in. I got to see it. You got to see it. You really I gotta see it. You gotta see it. You really gotta see it. And it's also the shotgun of choice for Dan Doherty behind the bar in Deadwood. Oh, son of a bitch. You're looking at him. He's got that bitch pointed at you through the bar.

Watch out. That's all I'm saying. If you enter the Gem Saloon in the 1880s, you never know. HBO's got some amazing programming. They do. What the fuck? I've always been a big fan. Since back in the day. Rodney Dangerfield specials. HBO's got some amazing programming. They do. What the fuck? I've always been a big fan. That's, yeah.

Since back in the day. Yeah. Rodney Dangerfield specials. Hook me as a kid, goddammit, you bastards. So anyway, let's do this here. So he walks in the store. Connor tells the cops that he saw Min Rogers and said that he was going to shoot her. Okay.

He said she laughed. She laughed like, oh. He's not telling the cops, I'm going to shoot her. He told Min. He told Min, I'm going to shoot her. He told Min. He told Min, I'm going to shoot you. And she laughed at him. She didn't think he was serious. Because she's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

320 people here. No one's killing anyone in this town. You're not going to shoot me. Who's robbing me? You've been in here three times already. What are you talking about? Go buy a six pack and go home. What are you doing?

So he says he then forced her to lie down on the lounge chair located behind the counter. He said when she attempted to get up, he shot her in the upper chest from about eight inches away. Oh, Jesus. He says eight inches. That is close. That may as well be point blank. That's pretty on point with the medical examiner also. Now, who pops out from the back room of the store but this teenage daughter that this guy didn't even know existed.

Right. So he just shot the mother. Teenage daughter comes running out. Holy shit, what happened? Yeah. He turns the shotgun on her. He says he searched her for a weapon first, which, like, she's a 16-year-old girl. She's coming out with a.357.

Came out screaming, oh, my God, oh, my God, with her trapper keeper in her hand. Go, holy shit. So she comes out. He searches her for a weapon, then forces her to take her clothes off. Oh, boy. Forces her to take all of her clothes off. He then admits to raping her and shooting her in the upper chest. Okay.

He said he remembered talking with some people in the parking lot of the grocery store, but he says he doesn't recall identifying himself as a law enforcement officer, which that would be fine if two people that were in separate cars didn't both say that he did the same thing and have the same story, too. Exactly. He said before he took off, he picked up a dark-colored briefcase, the bank bag that they had for the deposit at the end of the night, that zipper one with the lock on top my grandfather had for his barbershop, and the money from the cash register. So he robs everything. I'm just floored at this point that this is the story he's telling the cops, and then he's going to try and smooth it all over at the end by being like, no, no, you guys. But you've got to find that black guy. That guy's dangerous as fuck. He's super scary.

I'm telling you. He's trying to kill everybody. What the hell is the thought process? What he does after that is he changes his mind. Okay. He says, actually, I have a different confession. Yeah. That one, throw that one out.

That one's crazy. Ball it up, throw it out. I don't know what I was thinking on that one. Obviously nuts. Actually, what happened is, and this is the truth this time, this is the real thing. He says he stopped at the Rogers grocery just to get something to drink. That's all he was doing. He wasn't trying to shoot her.

No black guy, no hit, no nothing. First of all, telling the cops that doing it, murder for hire isn't better. No. That's worse. That's absolutely worse. That's in the sliding scale of badness of crime and like penalties and things like that murder for hire is pretty much outside of killing children it's apart from the worst that's the worst that's like you're the most cold-blooded right you

weren't mad at this person you didn't have a reason you're just doing it for financial guy i don't care that's how little you little care you have for life. Unbelievable. That's what he thought was a good strategy. Instead, he says he goes there to get something to drink. And when he goes there, there was an older white male who was the first guy we talked to here, Daniel. He says there's an older white male who started to tease him. And he called him either cowgirl or cowboy. He couldn't remember which one.

He says he called him cowgirl or cowboy, which is a big difference there, I guess, if you're going to get offended. And either way, what do you care if some old drunk guy at the store calls you cowgirl? Right. You go, yeah, that's great, cowboy. That's wonderful. And you fucking leave. Who gives a shit? Ignore this fucking guy.

What the fuck are you talking about, sir? Thanks. Yeah, no, not Connor. He got pissed. Oh, yeah, yeah. He got so mad that he left the store. He got so mad that he raped a 16 year old girl he's like i gotta shoot two asians right in the face i don't care call me cowgirl

unbelievable yeah so what he says is he go he went to alan a guy named alvin riddick's house okay he stayed there until after dark yeah uh he said while he was there he drank two bottles of george dickle whiskey which sounds like that sounds like it tastes like George's Dickel. It sounds like it's got glass floating in it. It's not bad when you sip the glass out. You've got to sip the glass out now. What they do is they take scotch that has gone bad and gotten weird, and they break the bottles up, and they just scoop it off the ground.

So some chunks of glass gets in there, but it's pretty good, I tell you. It ain't bad if you want a cheap drunk, you know what I'm saying? George Dickel. D-I-C-K-E-L. George Dickel Whiskey. That's gross. So he drinks some dick whiskey here, and he said he became more and more upset.

Shocker, he's drinking whiskey, drinking two bottles of glass-filled whiskey, and he gets upset more about a problem. Interesting. A guy called me cowgirl and I'm drinking this. I'm furious. Yeah. I'm furious. I'm pissed. He said he, so he went back to the store, shit hammered. He

said he goes, enters the store and the white guy was still there, which makes sense with the timeline of what's going on. Right, for two hours he hung. He said the guy called him a dickhead. So you're back, dick all right so this is great in his defense that's what they call people that drink dickle what's up you cowboy dickhead that's true that was a cop you're a dick it's like being a parrot head like you're a dickhead too

you're a dickhead too i'm a dickhead all right they high five. They high five and fucking... You listen to Buffett, you parrot head. They high five and listen to fucking... I almost said a Boz Skaggs song. I can't think of Jimmy Buffett songs. I hate Jimmy Buffett. And I hate Boz Skaggs, too. Jesus Christ. Garbage.

You parrot head. You, too? You're a dickhead, too? All right. T-shirts, I'm a dickhead. You're a dickhead too all right your t-shirts i'm a dickhead i'm a george dickhead oh my god so moving forward connor says oh yeah why don't we go step outside yeah so now he let's see who's even a bar okay this is a goddamn grocery store i will take you outside of the tomato section let's go there's two drunk people about to have a fight so the guy in the store said he wasn't interested in fighting he didn't want anything and he left he said i don't i don't fucking i don't want anything and then he said after that none of the rest of it changed he said that guy left then i told her to go behind the

counter shot her in the neck raped the daughter daughter, shot her too, and left. That's his story. He did not change anything for the better. He made it from being a hitman to just randomly fucking robbing, to just being a robber. A violent dickhead. A violent dickhead, armed robber at that point. Yeah, kill someone in the commission of a robbery. Maybe he realized that murder for hire is much worse.

I think he did. He talked to a public defender. And they were like, what did you tell them? What the fuck is wrong with you? You walked in. You were angry about this. You shot them after rage of them. That's what it is. So obviously, that's that's a little damning, I would say, if that comes out of your mouth.

So on November 13th, 1990, he's indicted on two counts of first degree murder, one count of first degree rape, and one count of robbery with a dangerous weapon. Holy shit. None of those charges are good at all to have on your record. That's horrific. Those are all as bad as possible. I don't want one of those. I don't want any of those anywhere near me. So what ends up happening, April 15th, 1991,

is his trial. It is a capital trial because they're going for the death penalty. Oh, boy. They want to kill the son of a bitch bad. They want him dead like yesterday. Me too. There's some interesting stuff here, Jimmy. Hold the brakes just a moment because there's some stuff. I still think he did it, but let's get into the whole deal here.

At the trial, he's positively identified by everybody that was out in the car that night, by Will Harrell, by Daniel, five different people who saw him at the store that night at different times. They all testified. They give lots of physical evidence. They find a bloody footprint. They find a footprint that they match to a Nike sneaker at his house later on. They find that.

But in his confession, not that his confession is, what do we know what that's worth? He's bringing unnamed black guys in for no reason at this point. But he said that he threw all his clothes out in the confession. So that was like one of the things that he's going to say as a sticking point. Like in the confession, I said I threw my shit out and they said that I had a shoe. How would I have a shoe if I threw everything out? Well, maybe you didn't take an extra pair of shoes with you because you were fucking drunk on the dickle you ever think of that for two seconds or maybe you only got one pair of fucking shoes or that's the

other thing he was like i was wearing my nice shoes i'm not throwing these out jesus the other one's got holes right i use the other one we use a weed whacker it just cuts it all up it's covered in grass it's all green green shit and all cut up in the front and the toe areas. No good. So all the physical evidence of that sort of thing, the corroborating testimony of the medical examiner with his confession matching up exactly what he said. Of course. Happened, happened. Right. That sort of thing.

So all of these things are adding up. It's not great. Harold Lowe, Kathy Winslow, Chris Bailey testified. All these damn people. The defense, for their part, you want to mount a vigorous defense. Be helpful. They present no evidence. Nothing.

Nothing. Not one shred of he didn't do it. Prosecution rests. They said, counsel, and he said, thank you. Defense rests, Your Honor. Thank you. And he sat back down. It's exactly what fucking happened.

That's what happened. Earning his fucking public defender paycheck. They said, are you sure? And he said, oh, yeah, we got nothing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He confessed like three different times. Pick one of those, and that's what happened. If we say anything, it makes it worse.

We're not saying shit. It's not going to go well. Let's just do this here. So nothing. So you don't present any defense whatsoever. Which is a problem on appeal. A little bit of a problem here. Well, not even, because they had nothing to present.

Yeah, but it's just going to be. Other than him testifying, what witnesses are you going to call? You got a point. Who are you going to call? I don't disagree. There's nobody to call. It's just him saying crazy shit. I call Min because she'll tell you I didn't do it.

She's not here, dickhead. I call a six foot tall, 240 pound black guy to the stand and say I didn't tell him to kill nobody. No, that's not how it works. That's not the defense. I don't even know that guy. I don't know. I never saw that guy before in my life.

So anyway, this is the end of the trial. Jury does not take very long to convict him on all charges. Wow. Two counts of first degree murder, one of the rape, and one of the robbery with a firearm. Everything. Yes, everything. Well, shit, he said he did everything, so they did that. Sentencing is April 30th, 1991.

That is one speedy ass trial that was speedy yeah they got through it sentencing right after well there's there was half of it didn't exist you're right they presented here's some witnesses six months and this motherfucker's on death row already you have to think of yeah the trial would be i mean they present the medical examiner the cops who talked to him the uh his statements are introduced the four people five people who saw the dude at the store. That's our case. They got a weapon, too, already, too?

They probably still have that, right? No, no, they don't have the weapon, actually. Oh, it didn't show up. They don't have the weapon, actually. Yeah, he said he tossed everything. Oh, with the clothes. A lot of times, too, with a shotgun, depending on what it is, it would be a little hard to... Oh, yeah, it's not going to match the...

It's not going to match up anyway. And I assume most people around here have a shotgun is the problem. I have to assume it was probably birdshot with the way that they. Teeth and everything. Yeah. Something like that. So in the sentencing hearing, found guilty, obviously, and they have to find aggravating circumstances.

And they do. It's in the commission of a felony, which is a robbery and a rape. So that's two. And the firearm with everything. Also in the course of conduct, which included the commission by the defendant of other crimes of violence against another person. So that's also there.

Now, in mitigation, what they try to present in mitigation to save his life here is they say mitigation of the murder of Linda Ross. How can you say there's any mitigating evidence when you forcibly, forcibly, when you fucking raped a woman at gunpoint.

Violently raped her. Violently and all violent, but when there's a shotgun under your chin, I feel like that's particularly fucking violent. It's definitely escalating. Extra violent rape, we'll say. Fucking violent rape plus, I don't know even how to fucking put that.

Squared? Is it squared? Cubed? It's a lot. Exponentially bad. It's all bad. It's it's just bad multiplies the situation you there's nothing mitigating about raping a woman at gunpoint and then shooting her under the chin a 16 year old girl you can't minimize that ever what could she have done

that could have caused that absolutely nothing there's nothing that causes the recourse of rape even murder is like he he came at me with a weapon so i killed him there's nothing where you could say well she did that so that, so I had to rape. That doesn't exist. There's no circumstance to mitigate. So they do find that it was slightly mitigating that he was under the influence of a mental or emotional disturbance and that he suffers from a psychosexual disorder. I would say so. I would say that's a little bit of a disorder.

I like to rape somebody while their dead mother's in the room and then kill them. The shotgun aimed at their face. It's a disorder, I would call it. And psycho is a pretty good definition of that disorder. That's perfect. And now for Min Rogers, for the mother, they find the mitigating circumstances that he voluntarily waived his right to remain silent and gave up the story, basically, and that he cooperated with law enforcement in addition to confessing. So that's his mitigators there.

Based upon finding both counts that the mitigating circumstances were insufficient to outweigh the aggravating circumstances and that the aggravating circumstances were sufficiently substantial to call for the imposition of the death penalty, The jury recommended that he be sentenced to death for these murders. The judge agrees, and he receives two death sentences. Holy shit. Just in case. Put that one in your back pocket. You betcha.

I got a bag. I got a death sentence in my back pocket right there. Tell you what, kill me. Here's one. You know what? I'm going to throw it up in the air. Just let it make it rain. Who wants to die?

Let's do it, baby. Make it rain. Make it rain with death sentences now can i can i give this one out is that is that possible can i sell it on the on the block so that i can get some extra can i do that there's a lot of people that want to die trust me for some extra for some extra honey buns can i can i sell this yeah is that now here's let's talk about this because i've gone back and forth and we've had a few and nobody's been a dick about it at all, actually, too. But people have asked us questions about the death penalty. You guys say you don't like the death penalty, but then you cheer when a guy gets killed and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And I had to explain my thing. And we might have to explain it again. We might have to explain it again. It's been a while. We may have to explain it frequently. Frequently, yes. Neither of us are real big into the death penalty. It's not. There are people, and this of us are real big into the death penalty. It's not.

There are people, and this is weird because this isn't political at all. This is a weird subject that's political but not political to people. It's public safety. It's political to politicians, but to people, because it has nothing to do with your sides. I know far right people and far left people that want to get rid of the death penalty for different reasons. Left people don't think anyone should die. Right, the far-conservative people are saying it's the most expensive thing ever to withdraw all this shit.

Just monetarily, it's stupid. And then you have this large group of people in the middle, which I think most people fall into, whereas when you get a guy like Raymond Mata from Nebraska that we covered a few weeks ago, when he kills a three-year-old, dismembers them completely, wraps the head neatly in plastic and duct tape, puts it above his room, chops and grinds this child up, leaves packages of toddler flesh in his refrigerator with his finger, in tinfoil, with his fingerprint on them, and feeds them to the fucking dog after that, when they find the dog. We have no use for that guy. We have no use for that guy.

We have no use for that. And it's indisputable proof. A toddler head was found in his bedroom. Right. And then his fingerprints are all over toddler meat. Right. You fucking killed this kid. For sure.

At that point, we all want that guy to die. Right. Okay? Most of the people in the middle, we all want to kill this guy. We don't want him around. No. Let's put it that way. But most of us aren't real sure how the fuck that looks like.

Because you'll hear people go, I'm not really into the death penalty, like us. And then a guy kills a three-year-old, feeds him to a dog, and they're like, fucking fry that guy. We all kind of want these people to die, but we're not sure that the state is the best person to carry this out. There's not a big grease vat that you can just put him in a fryer. You can't do that. Yeah, there's not – we're not sure the state is the route that we want everything to go because as we'll find out, so many DNA – Exonerations are crazy.

It's off the chart. So they can't – they fuck it up. That's why for us it's like the guy like Raymond Mata, all the evidence in the world, physical evidence, witnesses, everything, confessions, there's no doubt. When it's something like that, when it's just like a four-sided every possible way you're guilty, you're guilty. To try to keep him from being guilty leads right the fuck back to guilty. Yeah, at that point, I don't care at that point. Goodbye.

Yeah, but that's a rare thing, and I'm not sure that for that rare circumstance that we should be just using it widely, all sorts of things like that. I'm not sure. That's the thing. I'm not I don't think I'm into it. Some people I want to die in whatever way possible. For sure. But that's how we feel about it. We're just not sure it's the state, because like in the words of back when Dennis Miller was funny, like 25 years ago, the state can't pay fucking roads.

All right. So, yeah, exactly. Oh, that's brilliant. They can't pay roads, and we're going to put them in charge of killing people? Well, his thing was about where everybody's worried that the state is doing everything. They're controlling this. He's like, the state can't pay fucking roads, all right? The state's not fucking running any conspiracies on you.

So that was what it is. But anyway, that's how we feel about it. So this guy here, we feel about it. So this guy here, we'll get into, I'm not a fan of the death penalty in this particular case, not because of the severity of the crime, but because of the actual proof is thin. It's only really his confession, honestly. It's really a footprint and a confession, and that's really it. But if he did it, he fucking earned it. He went out of his way to earn a death sentence.

We'll even talk about DNA because he did leave behind a little forget-me-not there. So is that bad? I don't know if it's bad. It's just an interesting way of calling it. Yeah, it is, I guess. You're right. So anyway, he's there. Now, March 1994, he has his direct appeal.

Yeah. Okay, on this whole thing. There's jury selection problems in this whole deal. Juries are a problem with this whole case. Yeah. A huge issue here. Prior to the trial, the defense counsel tried to get the court to prevent the state from basically putting together a death qualifying jury. Like, they want to be able to say, if you don't believe in the death penalty, you should still be on the jury, the defense says, because that's a cross-section of society.

And I actually agree with this. I actually agree with this. If you say, no, I don't believe in the death penalty, that shouldn't be an automatic dismissal for a death penalty case. Because a lot of people don't believe in the death penalty, and the jury is supposed to be a cross-section of society. Those people exist. And also, let me tell you a story in a case that may possibly sway that. That's the thing.

You sit someone down and go, I don't believe in the death penalty, and you tell them Raymond Mata's case with the three-year-old that we just told you. You guys got a good point. Show a picture of the three-year-old, tell him everything, tell him all the proof, and he'll go, can I kill that fucking guy?

I will stab him in the throat right now. I swear to God, hold me back in this jury box. Do you hate the death penalty? Also, do you have a three-year-old? Because I want to tell you a story. And we'll change your fucking opinion about death penalty. That's what I mean. So for this case, anyway, that's what ends up happening.

So anyway, that's a problem. They don't allow that. So that's an issue. They do dismiss the people like they always do in death penalty cases. The people who say they would not give the death penalty under any circumstances, which I think it should be. You have a number of challenges. You can challenge those guys.

But if a couple of them get on the jury, well, that's part of society. So I mean, maybe you don't get the death penalty. Maybe you'll be guilty, but maybe it's life in prison. And that's kind of how we should do it, I feel like. I feel like you can't set – the state does have a lot of advantages and you can't set it up so there's like a greased tube down to death row. Like that I don't like. The benefit that the state has right out of the gate is that a crime absolutely happened.

And now you've got somebody that's suspected of that crime sitting right fucking there. Yeah, that's it. And you've got to decide whether or not that's the guy that did it. The chances of that guy being acquitted are already slim to none anyway. They're very slim to none. Now, they ask – there is so much – there's like six different points of contention in jury wadir. So we're not going through all of this shit. It's just – it's such painstaking legal shit.

If this was small-town law, we would go over this point by point. But this is like the people on Undisclosed wouldn't go over shit this close. The lawyers on there would be like, it's legal, mumbo jumbo. It's too much for you. And it made my fucking head hurt at four in the morning. But they wouldn't say that. I'm saying that here. So they end up finding that the scope of these questions at the jury were so general that it did allow the defense ample opportunity to inquire further about things.

It was a bunch of things they said that they weren't. They tried to repeat the same questions that the prosecution would ask, but try to spin it in a different way to the jurors. And the judge finally said, stop doing that. Don't ask them questions that they've already answered. There's an answer on the record. We need to fucking move this along here. You know, go on.

Speedy trial. Speedy trial. Let's get these. And the jurors, too. They're normal people. They didn't commit any crimes. They've got jobs to do. They're not lawyers that are getting paid to be here.

They want to get in and get the fuck out. Pick your people and let's go. So they do that. Now, they end up finding, the court ends up finding that he failed, that Conor fails to demonstrate that any error in the questioning process resulted in prejudice that would entitle him to a new trial. Also, the right not to

testify. They asked him, they would ask jurors, his counsel would ask jurors repeatedly if they would hold it against him, quote, hold it against him if he elected not to testify. This didn't end up really being anything, but he tried to make a bigger deal out of it than it actually was here. Also, the defense argues that the court erred in not allowing them to question

a potential juror about a prior relationship with one of the victims. Okay. There was a woman on the jury who would do some substitute teaching at the school that Linda Rogers went to. Who gives a shit? Didn't know or didn't teach her. She wasn't just one of her students. You're in a town of 300. That's what I mean.

Everybody fucking knows everybody. They know her. That's why a lot of times they move their shit to a, you know. Another venue. Change of venue. But they don't here. Everybody in this town had to buy food. That's what I mean.

They fucking bought it from Rogers. I feel like it's one of those deals where you're going to have that. You're just going to have to find people who you think are impartial. Nobody that says, oh yeah, she was my best friend or something like that. But yeah, I saw her once in town. Or somebody that's like, the bitch charges a dollar too much for tomatoes. This lady knows

Connor as well as she knows these people. Not at all. That's an impartial juror. That's as good as you're going to get. No one's perfect. In that town? Yeah. Anywhere. I mean, no one's perfect here. They're talking about they had alternates and they're talking about how many challenges they had.

And the defense says that they weren't allowed to challenge the people they wanted to challenge. And they said you had three unused challenges at the end. And it just goes back and forth here. They also say that the court failed to instruct the jury on second-degree murder and that that was a lower – they could have found him lesser charged there. They could have found him guilty of that. What they end up saying is that the evidence supports every element of first-degree murder, including premeditation and deliberation.

So, I mean, they say he went there specifically with a shotgun to do damage. Yeah, it's hard to argue that. It's hard to say that this was – they're trying to say that it wasn't a spur of the moment. He's trying to say it was a spur of the moment with provocation. He freaked out because they didn't, you know, he got called a cowgirl or a dickhead. Yeah, but the problem with that is that he was called a cowgirl or a dickhead by somebody that's not the fucking victims. Well, you know, she did laugh at him when he said, I'm going to shoot you. He's trying to, I guess, ease the situation.

The straw that broke the camel's back. That was the one here. Then they have a huge thing about the jury instruction of reasonable doubt, which is a big deal. What's reasonable doubt? Is it beyond a shadow of a doubt? It's not beyond that. It's not a doubt suggested by the... They go through the exact thing. The basic thing that I've been able to ascertain

out of everything I've ever seen on trials is if it's a civil trial, like, you know, Fred Goldman, Sue and OJ, if you're 51-49 guilty in your head, that's guilty. It's just preponderant, whatever. In a criminal trial, it's like 75. If you're like over 75%,

that's guilty, which is a little scary actually but i guess they figure if 12 people all have are about 75 sure that's good enough which still is a little scary that's terrifying but it's it's not like are you positive they did this they explain how it's not you know you can have a little doubt and still convict like that's crazy that's and that's the law that's our that's the law that's why it's not beyond a shadow of a doubt it's beyond a reasonable right which i shit i don't know if you're sitting there you probably want all the doubts you can get if you were you know every fucking doubt hey everybody just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about our new sponsor, eHarmony.com. eHarmony.com.

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This is after they even go into the definition of truth. Literally, they challenge the defense challenges whether they instructed the jury properly about truth, that truth is the highest aim of the criminal trial. And they said that the defendant, he argued, Connor argued that, well, not him, his lawyer argued that the instruction improperly shifted the burden of persuasion by imposing upon him a duty to present a version of the truth consistent with his innocence. No. He said, we're trying to find the truth, which is what a trial is. It's all points where everybody gets sworn in and they have to tell the truth.

And it's a whole thing for truth. We don't know the truth. All right, fuck this. Everybody get in a room. Get in a room. No, you take it and we're going to talk about it. He's going to defend you. He's going to talk about this and we're going to fucking figure this out.

That's the point. It's literally just everyone wants to figure this out. You literally sit on a stand, and every person that talks has to vow to tell the truth. Yeah. Which is a correct story. It's the truth, man. Unbelievable. The sentencing.

Now, in sentencing, they talk about, in sentencing here, they talk about a law. It's a Morgan. It's a case that you're referencing to. The Morgan error is whether a prospective juror would automatically or always vote for the death penalty following a conviction of a capital offense. Someone who says, I would always go for the death penalty. That's kind of cool. Is that okay? Well, if you can't have, I would never.

You shouldn't be able to have, I would always either. You know what I mean? That's kind of an interesting person, though. That's a very interesting person. That's to have ice. I would always either. You know what I mean? That's kind of a, that's an interesting person though. That's a very interesting person. That's a fascinating person. That's someone super. They came up guilty, fucking kill them. That's someone super angry aunt that screams at the TV for no reason.

That is an angry person for every day. That yells at fictional characters on Law and Order. You know what I mean? Yeah, rapist. Just yells at them. You're like, Jesus Christ, that's Dean Cain. It's like the John Mulaney joke. Is that Dean Cain? What the Christ, that's Dean Cain. It's like the John Mulaney joke. Is that Dean Cain?

What the fuck? That's Dean Cain. Anyway, so yeah, they say in the conclusion of this appeal, they say, in summary, we find no error in the guilt phase of defendant's trial for first degree murder. For error in the jury selection, which affected only the sentencing proceeding pursuant to Morgan, we hereby order a new capital sentencing proceeding. So they put aside his death penalty. After this, though, one of the jurors on the resentencing hearing here,

this is actually very interesting. A juror named Helen Knight, she served on the resentencing jury. She was news editor for the local newspaper okay during 1991 okay when his trial was going on like she knows everything about the case everything that's happened uh has a close relationship with several of the law enforcement officers who did the investigation served uh these were also witnesses these law enforcement people right uh she obtained confidential information about Connor. Like, she knows shit that's not in court records.

That's not on record. About the case and about him, about his background, his medical records, things like that. It's, that's, you can't do that. You just can't do that. It was the Gates County Index she worked for in 1991. And she's going to decide. Now, I think that's just not fair. You can't have that at all. That's stacking a jury for sure. That is definitely

stacking a jury. You may as well have the mayor, the governor, the police chief, and everybody that's with interest of keeping the city safe on this fucking jury. She had a close relationship with the sheriff and with SBI officers actually here. It sounds so made up. It does. It really does.

This sounds like what kids would say. SBI. Or drunkards. The sheriff told Knight of evidence that wasn't admissible in court, including emotional evidence of how even told her about how their men's 14 year old son reacted to news of his mother's death. thing that you super personal shit super personal shit and he was you know they they wouldn't listen to him them every time they said hey she knows too much hey she knows too much but what ends up happening is in this resentencing they resentence him to death again wow it's a you know multiple judge panel that they're going to only one judge dissented all the rest of them said it's fine anyway wow evidence is strong enough who cares send him down. One judge dissented, arguing that he was at least entitled to a hearing. Yeah. He concluded that the court was unreasonable in denying a hearing.

It would amount to a very real risk of juror bias, which I would fucking agree with that. Does that have to be a unanimous decision with the judges? No, no. It's a majority. It's just a majority. So that's the dissenting opinion was a Judge Luttig, who seemed to be the sane one there to go, yeah, this doesn't seem right here. And on February 10th, 1997, the North Carolina Supreme court affirms the sentence.

Oh my God. So the state Supreme court affirms it on a February 27th, 2006, the U S Supreme court denies, uh, his petition, uh, for, you know, a writ to, uh, what is it? Uh, uh, uh, uh, cert, certitora tour. I'm trying to remember what the fuck it is now. I didn't write it down. I'm like, I remember that term. It's a stay.

Yes. He's trying to go for a writ to get this, and they deny to even hear it. Wow. They don't want to hear shit. They don't want to hear shit. They deny his petition. On March 21st, 2006, an execution date is set for May 12th, 2006. Oh, boy.

He's supposed to be executed at 2 a.m. at the Central Prison. He's got two months. He's got two months here. He's also sentenced to life imprisonment for the rape and 40 years for the robbery with a firearm. So he's in there either way here. What they do is here, lawyers don't do the clemency hearings. You can have a clemency hearing at the end.

They don't do it. Conor doesn't participate in it. And they say they can't participate in it, and they can't help him have a successful or have any kind of hearing because they don't have enough information. They don't have enough evidence. And holy fuck, why haven't we tested DNA from 1990? No doubt. We're in 2006.

We're retested now. When they tested it in 1990, there was limits to what they could do. And the test came back inconclusive to him. They're saying now we can probably get a little more conclusive evidence on this or a little. Oh, God. Is it lost? They're also concerned not only the DNA. They're also there's a big deal here.

A guy who is there's one of these, you know, projects trying to get clemency for people. It's a guy named Dr. Solomon Fulero. He's a professor of law and psychology. He said that he is. I mean, a guy't, you can't make a determination of somebody based on reading documents, but whatever. He said he read, he reviewed his statements to law enforcement and the trial testimony of the interrogating officers. And he said that there's profound and disturbing questions about the reliability of Mr.

Conner's statements. I wouldn't, if they told him certain facts, he could have made it fit because he had two different stories. If they said they were shot close range, this one was raped, he could have said, oh, I raped her. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's possible. I'm not saying that's what happened. The doctor also said that he says – and I'll put this in his words here. He's testified numerous times as an expert in the psychology of interrogations and confession and whose whose work on the relationship between mental retardation, suggestibility and confession has been cited by the United States Supreme Court.

Oh, they're giving his background because he also says that Jerry Connor is borderline mentally retarded. OK, is the other thing that he said. He has really low IQ. He's a dassy, is what they're saying. He's a dassy. They got him in there. And he said, I like bugles. Man, my throat is so out of it. I like bugles. I can't even get down.

They say in this document here that even law enforcement officers who questioned Connor following his arrest testified at trial that they had questions about the veracity of his statements. say in this document here that even law enforcement officers who questioned uh connor following his arrest testified at trial that they had questions about the veracity of his statements uh the deputy sheriff stallings testified that it was difficult to believe many of the details included in the confession and an sbi agent mcleod said that uh mr connor was uncertain of many of the details surrounding the crime they said although mr. Connor's trial lawyers believe the statements were unreliable, they never retained expert

assistance to assist them in arguing their unreliability to the jury. And because science hadn't evolved to the degree where conclusive DNA tests could be done, his trial attorneys were, the way they put it, forced to pursue unorthodox methods in their attempt to help Mr. Connor avoid the death penalty. Okay. And accordingly, they made a strategic decision to admit Mr. Connor's guilt of the murders and beg for the jury for a life sentence.

They basically said, look, the jury. Did they do an Alford plea except for like take life instead? He said the jury said that you're the jury. You know, you did it. You confessed to it. They're not going to believe you didn't do it at this point in time. This was 1990. We didn't hear about, we didn't know that they would fucking coerce confessions out of people. Yeah, he said

he did it. Who would say they didn't do it if they did it? Or who would say, you know, who would say they did it if they didn't do it? Right. And who would know all that knowledge except for the criminal? Yes. Except for the perpetrator. Yeah. Also, too, he was, they didn't question him until August 30th. Yeah. So, I mean, there was two weeks of extensive newspaper coverage of everything and finding bodies.

And a 300-person town? Yeah. Everybody knows. Extensive coverage by the lady who then sat on the resentencing jury. Right. So this is all a little bit of, you know, a little bit crazy here. And if she's in the news and she's, like, writing stories about things, she's a gossip in the first place. She's told dozens of people in town what she knows.

Yeah. Well, there's also a witness. Yeah. There's also a witness that was withheld from the jury trial here. A witness who said they were at the scene of the crime. This person says it's something completely different. This is a woman named Jacqueline Boone. She gave two statements to law enforcement officers.

Jacqueline Boone. She gave two statements to law enforcement officers. She said that on August 18th, her and her husband Gayron is his name. G-A-Y-R-O-N. Gayron. That is brutal. That sounds like that's Big Ron and Gayron. That sounds like a guy in a warehouse would be his nickname.

A big, bald, burly guy. That's Gayron. He likes it. It's funny. Big Gayron. Gayron L. Boone Jr. Oh, my God. He's a junior? There's a second one? Oh, there's more.

Fuck. There's another Gayron. At least that's why they named him that. At least no one came up with that. At least no one came up with that, like a new name. Right. Out of nowhere. That could be 300 years old for all we know.

She said they were driving home and they passed Roger's grocery at 9.20 p.m. and made the left turn at the store to travel east on a secondary road. One of those roads I'd be scared of, I'm sure. Boone said that as they got in front of the store, they observed Min walking outside the store in the direction of the area where there was gas pumps at one point. It's an old shitty, you know, whatever. There was gas pumps at one point. It's an old shitty, you know, whatever. She said that a white man was walking very close to her and as he talked was using a lot of hand and arm gestures.

Boone said that the scene looked very odd to her and she paid close attention as they were slowly making a left-hand turn so she could pay attention. Boone stated that the white male was very close to Min's face as he talked and gestured, and they could possibly be arguing. He stated that it was odd to see Min outside the store at night with someone. You'd never see that. And see, that's interesting, too, because in his confession, there was never any talk about them being outside talking at all. And several people have talked about them going outside. That's fascinating.

He went outside, said, let's go outside and fight, maybe. And then maybe she came outside and said, calm down, calm down, calm down. Or get off my property or you're drunk. Get out of here. Who knows what the deal is? And maybe that's it. Maybe she was like, maybe she was saying, go, go, go. And he was walking with her but arguing with her about it.

Who knows what it is here? But she says that Boone says that she observed Min and the male turn to the south side of the building where a big full-size Dodge pickup was parked. Okay. She said that the vehicle was occupied by two or possibly three white males, each with collar-length hair. Boone said that she thought each of them was wearing a cap. Okay. So now there's three guys with hats on now. The person that Boone

says that Min was talking to was a white male approximately 22 or 23 years of age with dirty blonde hair, collar length dirty blonde hair. He had a slim build and appeared to be 5'8". So that's different from stocky. That's different from stocky. That's different from a hat

and mustache and short hair and the whole deal here. And this statement was suppressed. It was not brought to – This statement wasn't brought – this was never brought in the trial at all. Where the hell – this one matters a lot. Yes, it absolutely does. And it puts – she put men right in the situation where this could have happened with an unknown person in a strange, unusual circumstance that she doesn't recognize as normal for that store. With a description that doesn't match anything.

Not a drop. Right. Not a drop. So they're saying that the state's evidence is flawed. The confession is borderline. The way he puts it is, quote, the state's evidence of guilt is flawed in important respects. Their confession by this borderline mentally retarded individual is unreliable. Further, the identification of Connor at the scene by the state's witnesses is impeached by other witnesses' statements not introduced in trial.

They're saying a couple people said they saw him. A couple people said they didn't. All right. The only time I want to be considered borderline mentally retarded is in a case where I'm being charged with murder. If that's like my defense, I'm OK with it. Outside of that, it hurts. Yeah, no shit so it hurts so on may 10 2006 yeah uh what they end up doing is uh he's supposed to be executed in just a few days

yeah uh the north carolina supreme court grants a stay of execution handing down an order for additional dna testing right uh they said uh the, the sheriff said the only item left undecided is who will re-examine the DNA evidence collected 16 years ago. The sheriff said that the state Supreme Court remanded the case to an upcoming session of the Superior Court. The sheriff has no idea when the hearing's going to be. He knows nothing. But for now, he won't die.

He won't die for now. This was in 2006. It's left in the hands of Superior Court Judge Richard Parker. The DNA evidence found on Linda Rogers is going to be retested. And they said the original DNA process got inconclusive results. Now, District Attorney Frank Parrish said he was skeptical about the need for more testing in the case of Jerry Wayne Conner, but planned to comply with the judge's order. Well, no shit you can comply with the judge's order.

You want to get fired? Yeah. Let's find out. It's DNA. Yeah. That's who's going to be in there. Let's find out. Why not?

Let's use that one. June 1, 2006, LabCorp is going to perform the DNA test. His lawyers obviously say this is going to exonerate him. It's going to fix everything. The district attorney said that they should have the sample be delivered that week. The district attorney says that there's sufficient evidence without the DNA test to show that Connor committed the crimes. And I'm a little skeptical of that right now.

I'd like some DNA evidence here. Now, what ends up happening is the DNA testing comes up inconclusive. Oh, no. Yes, which shows that's not a positive either direction. The semen sample had characteristics shared by 60% of the male population, which I think is probably a secretor. That's the way they do that. That's whatever.

It's a blood. If you go on thegreatcoursesplus.com and do the real crime scenes, you'll learn all about it. You'll learn all about the secretors and all that kind of shit. It's a semen thing, and it's gross. So anyway. It's a semen thing. You don't know about the semen thing.

That's a new t-shirt. It's a semen thing, and it's gross. It's a semen thing. It's gross. Don't worry about it. Oh, my God, here. So the defense asked the judge to look at the other evidence, including expert testimony on the reliability of the confession and that other eyewitness, Boone.

The judge denies those requests. What? The other witness, that's a tough one to deny here. There are legal challenges in 2006 also to the state protocol of lethal injection. Because it's lethal injection. There's a protocol. There's a problem with the three drug. We've heard a ton about this, the three drug thing.

They're trying to get it away from the three drug, and they're trying to get it to a one drug uh thing and this this goes on for a few years uh they finally uh figure out there's a one drug they finally pass something that says you can do a one drug got it and that's a thing but at the same time they're also repealing the this is just – they're repealing like racial fairness acts that says – there's things that say that you can't – like a reason to get taken off of death row is if you were convicted strictly on like racial bias and shit like that. They repealed those laws. They got rid of those laws. That's a good law to repeal. That's an odd law to repeal.

Yeah. That's bizarre. What's that? Racial fairness? We don't want anybody thinking we're fair racially down here. Fuck that shit. God damn it. So what they do is they got rid of all of that.

And now the death penalty is still legal and active. Yeah. But no one's been put to death since 2006 in the state of North Carolina due to constant back and forth litigation between can we kill him with one drug? Can we kill him with three drugs? Do we kill him in this fairness, in this fairness? This is why people are against the death penalty too, because all of this is going on.

It's all very expensive and we could be all done and have this guy just sit in a fucking cell and whatever. But this one here, who the fuck knows? We're not even sure what happened. Death row in North Carolina is actually not as bad as death row in other states that I've seen here. They get to stay in the day room from 7 a.m. to 11 p.m. They're not like on a 23-hour day lockdown. They can watch TV in the day room.

They can get incentive wage jobs in the canteen. Shit like that. They can be barbers and janitors. They can receive one visit a week with a maximum of two visitors, which isn't bad. They can see and talk with inmates, but they can't do physical contact with visitors. That's not allowed. So they have church services and all this shit. It's pretty death row in North Carolina.

Just in case they didn't do it, James. Just in case they didn't do it. Yeah, I feel like they're hedging their bets there. They're like, look, let's – I mean, it's shit still. Let's treat them a little better. I see pictures. It looks like shit and it looked like shit here. Oh, I'm sure it is.

If they violate regulations, they get segregated cell block outside of death row, which is usually death row. But here it's not. They got to eat their meals in the cell and they're separated for their daily hour of exercise and shower if they fuck up. So that's North Carolina. They say basically when, if they get their shit together in North Carolina, and that's the type of state, I don't know though,

they kind of shift around politically. We'll see which side that political football ends up being advantageous for to see what happens in that state because they shove it back and forth. But that, if they ever do get the death penalty ball rolling again, this fucking guy is like.

He's fucking. He's up next. He's front row, baby. Ready to get the needle. His ticket says next. His ticket says next. Yeah. He's looking.

He's got the number. And he's like, sweet. I'm next at the deli. I'm getting boar's head. What number do you have? Next. Next. I'm next.

I'm next. So that's what ends up happening here. So we don't know. I mean, the DNA. I would have loved DNA testing on this. I don't feel like people confess that they didn't do anything for the most part. But they do all the time. That's the thing.

We say that, but then it happens constantly. There's a Death Row Stories show on Netflix where a guy like was claiming innocence for the whole thing. And then and this guy like took up for him and started like a reinvestigation. And then they got DNA and the DNA proved he fucking did. Yeah, that happens all the time, too. But there's also there's also the ones where DNA fucking exonerates them. Exonerates them constantly. Figure out how to test this DNA and figure out if this is the guy that did it.

They don't know. And yeah, once the DNA was inconclusive, I would have loved this sentence to be commuted to life because we have, you know, intelligence borderline person making a confession to police. Can't believe that guy. And he's told two totally different stories. I mean they both ended with raping and killing these girls. But still, I feel like the cops' possibility of nefarious behavior, if we're going to say let's do like a making a murderer deal here and say the possibility to me is the cops thought okay the story about the black guy is ridiculous right that shit isn't going to play in court no they're not going to believe it and they're going

to say his testimony her confession's unreliable let's say something believable sure you walked in that guy called you a cowgirl that made you mad right what'd you do then oh i bet you had a couple of drinks didn't you oh yeah i bet you got a bet you got a little too tipsy on the dickle, didn't you? You got a little dick tipsy. Yeah, she did. Okay. Then what happened? You get back there.

That made you mad when she laughed at you, didn't it? Right. Yeah, well, then what happened? Then you had to prove that you weren't a cowgirl. Yeah, that's right. You had to prove that you weren't a cowgirl, and then you needed money because you just lost your job as a truck. Hey, man.

And they'll sit there and tell you, hey, man. I know how it goes. I've been there. I haven't always done this. How many times have I been through this? Right now, I'm telling you, hey, man. I know how it goes. I've been there. I haven't always done this. How many times have I been through this? Right now, I'm telling you, man, we're struggling real bad right now. It's brutal. It's tough.

You know, I've got fucking car payments due. I'm two months late. And they'll tell you that. And a guy who's got a 74 IQ will sit there and go, really? Wow. That's well, yeah, I guess I did. My life's tough, too. You can do it.

I'm telling you, man. It happens. And it scares. It's scary. I'm dumb as shit. You could convince me I did some bad shit. And I may believe you. You'm telling you, man, it happens and it scares. It's scary. I'm dumb as shit. You could convince me I did some bad shit and I may I may believe you like Jesus. I must have just forgot. I guess I did it. I must I must have. So that is Gatesville, North Carolina. Don't fuck up in Gatesville. Yes. And don't even be near it when somebody else fucks up. Yeah, I did this on

purpose to answer our death penalty people with the death penalty questions, and so we can't cheerlead. And usually when we do a death penalty case, on purpose I do one where there's no question. So everyone can just be happy this guy's going to die. Here's the thing. Whoever did this needs to die. Someone needs to die. Absolutely. But I don't know if we're ever going to find out 1,000% who did it.

So unless it's 1,000%, I don't want to kill anybody. I just don't. I'm not up for that. I'm not up for that i'm not up for that uh if we if we can guarantee that the person that did this is caught and is is fingered for the crime drag him i don't care if the dna came back him goodbye bye-bye asshole see ya stop talking about how a black guy made to do it don't care at that point i don't care run him over in the car with the with the bus that goes back to prison. Don't even put him on it.

Just back it over him. I don't give a shit at that point. But this, I don't think so. So anyway, if you like that story and you're confused and angry like we are, please get on iTunes. You can give us five stars. Tell us you're confused and angry. Please do that. It's not for our ego or anything like that.

It's really just big on the business end. It really helps a lot. So if you could do that, it would be greatly appreciated. Also, you can get on patreon.com. If you'd like to help me get James some health insurance, that'd be nice. Yeah, patreon.com slash crimeinsports. And you can make any, every dime we get there is appreciated from the bottom of our hearts. How much we appreciate that.

Also, if you want to make a one-time donation, PayPal is a great place to do that. Yes. All that money goes to us over there. So it's over at PayPal. Use our email address, crimeandsports at gmail.com. Yes. For that, if you want to follow us on social media, it is at Murders Small on Twitter, Small Town Pod on Facebook, and crimeandsports at gmail.com to email.

And here's a list of the most amazing people. Thank you guys so much, especially if this was even over a holiday week. These people were busy and doing shit and they still found time to support us and donate. And thank you guys. Jimmy, hit us with that list. First of all, Susan Olgis,

she's a truck driver and she sends snaps and stuff to me, but she sent me a snap of her trying the fudgesicle and yoo-hoo challenge. James believes that fudgesicles probably taste like yoo-hoo. He believes that they are just frozen yoo-hoo. It seems like it. And Susan actually, first of all, she melted it down. And it says on the package that there's two ounces, or two and a half ounces, I believe it said.

2.5. Bullshit, first of all. Does the stick count? It may be weight. It may be weight. It could be, because it is actually 1.7 fluid ounces of chocolate that makes a fudgicle. And also, she melted it down and tried it. She tried it, then washed her mouth out, and then tried the Yoo-Hoo, and Yoo-Hoo, she said, is better.

Well, I would think, yeah. The fudgicle is much more chocolatey, she did say, though. So what we're saying, if we froze Yoo-Hoo, and Yoo-Hoo, she said, is better. Well, I would think, yeah. The Fudge-a-Cole is much more chocolatey, she did say, though. So what we're saying, if we froze Yoo-Hoo, we'd have something special here. We might have something a little less chocolatey. Thank you for doing that field work. And a little more refreshing. Thank you for doing that field work for me, because now I can do it. Thank you.

Good work. Appreciate you. So Jess Landgren and Christiane Castaldi again. God damn it. Thank you, guys. They're so generous. They almost lead the charge in financing this shit for us. No, they really do.

Honestly. Thank you guys so much. Fantastic two women. Thank you. It's hard to do without you. We're going to be in Boston next month, or February, rather, to thank Chrissy for sure in person. Yes, we will absolutely do that.

Andrea Peck sent us a package last week. I just wanted to mention her. James Cook, Ingrid Stoke, the one from Arstaki. Shit, I'm not sure. She's in North Korea. No, it's not. Oh, yeah, yeah, in Norway. In Norway.

I see N-O-K. She sent us more North Korean money. North Korean cash, yeah. She sent more. Thank you so much for letting North Korea know. And she signed up for Patreon, so thank you so much, Ingrid. You're terrific. That's awesome.

Thank you. Nick Laycock, Nick again this week, second time. Or third time, maybe. I'm not sure. I don't remember. That's amazing, man. I lost track of how many times I've seen Laycock. Lena Fisher.

Sierra Plotz. Lisa White. Danita. Ah, fucking hell. Danita Lautenschlager. Slager. Slager? Hmm.

Ludenschluger. I could ruin this name so many different ways. You'd do it all day long. That's like that Rudenhauser or whatever his name was in League of Their Own. No, not League of Their Own. It's Rookie of the Year. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Rudenbagger.

Her last name could be ruined so many different ways. And you would ruin it. And I'll find every different way. Cat Power again. She sent some dough again. Thanks, Kat. Thank you, Kat. And that's Kat Kapow.

Kapow Designs. She makes shit. Yeah, look up her stuff and buy some from her. Kapow. K-O-W. C-A-P-O-W. There you go. Find that stuff and send her money and make her make you some shit.

Kat's always good to us. She's a good person. I like her a lot. Michelle Swinfield, Sarah Gilbo. She's donated a few times, too. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. Emily, not going to do it.

Emily Wenner. It's Wenner. There you go. I think it's Wenner. What do you want to call her? I don't want to call her that. Okay, you were going for Weiner, weren't you, Jimmy? I don't want to do that to her.

It's probably Wenner. Yes, probably. Katie Johnson. And then K weren't you, Jimmy? I don't want to do that to her. It's probably Wiener. Yes, probably. Katie Johnson, and then Kasten. No, it's Kasten Johnson, and I called him a woman. I didn't call him a woman, but I assumed that he was a female. He is definitely not a female. Rodney Horn, Gabriel, Gabriel, Gabriel, Gabriel Orelli. That's it.

Dana Grayson, again. John Taylor, Michelle Strand. Marius Zaljonsson. Susan August, like I said, or August. August. I believe it's August. Steve Lexa. Laura Christensen.

Kristen Mailhot or Malot or Malow. It could be Mailow. Fuck. I'm going to breeze right by it. It's something. It's one of those. Starts with M. Mike Ribeiro. Georgia. Not Georgia. It's Ginger. Ginger CK. CH. Yeah, CH. breathe right by it it's one of those mike mike mike ribeiro uh georgia not georgia it's ginger

ginger ck ch what the shit what am i doing a ginger ck is something else i know that's a that's a terrible person a ginger ck will force you to watch things you don't want to watch that's right dan anderson uh hannah edinger again she's terrific. Thank you, Hannah. Adrian. Nick Krezovich. No, it's an N. Nezavich. That's it. You don't pronounce the K, right?

When there's a KN, you never pronounce the K. Not usually. It could be Knezavich, but it's probably Nezavich. It depends on what it is, yeah. It's Nick Nezavich. Well, in English, there's the KN, but in other cultures, it's actually kind of. You can't put consonants together like that. Jesus Christ. It ruins everything.

Hannah Hardman. Matt Jelinek. Jelinek. It's Jelinek. I think so. I like how you say it with a shirty after you screw it up three times. So much confidence. Absolutely.

Kyle Letcher or Lecker. Letcher. Sean Streeter. Paul Higgins. Amanda Windsor, Anita. No, it's Eden. Not Anita. Why would I do that? Eden Finelli, Marie Chirico.

And Sarah upped her donation. She doesn't have a last name, just Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Sarah. Bronwyn English. That's fun. Nicole Peterson. Nicole Peterson Green. Tanya Boddy. Ashley Collins. That's fun. Nicole Peterson Green.

Tanya Boddy. Ashley Collins. Kylie Harmon. Karitina? Karitina? No, it's Karitina? Karitina. Karitina.

That's got to be it. Mills. Karen Warner. Karitina. Jennifer Bachelder. They are fucking tough this week. Jesus, you are dying over there Jamie Noonan

Stigen really S-T-I-J-N you pronounce that Stigen Stigen DeBoer Steen maybe it's Stein it could be German I'm going to convince you of so many ways so Terry Staudinger that one's an easy one right I'm going to convince you of so many ways. We're making it worse. So Terry Stodinger.

That one's an easy one, right? I probably just fucked that up. And she's like, it's not as easy as you think it is. This is a dickhead. Anthony Connell. Jackie Neal. Timothy Young. Jennifer Boney. Or Bone?

Bon? Boner. No. Jennifer Boner? There's no R. Okay. You just wanted to say Boner. Jennifer Boner. All right. R. Okay. So you just wanted to say Bonner. Jennifer Vonnie.

All right. I think that's it. Thomas Gallagher, Adam Baker, Ben O'Cote, Maddie Gallagher, Jake Cote. So there's a Ben O'Cote and then there's a Jake Cote. It may be Cody. Oh, there you go. It could be any of those. Cote, it could be.

Yes. And Sophie Krokvist. Krok-Sophie Krokvist. Krok? You just said Krok. K-R-O-K-V-I-S-T. Krokvist. Okay. Krokvist.

Sure. I don't know. Adrienne Gepner in Oklahoma. She's terrific, and she's a mom. She's fucking hysterical on Snapchat. Find her and laugh. She's fantastic. Awesome.

And then Courtney Gross. Thank you all so much for everything. God, guys, thank you so much. This week was fucking fantastic. Yes. Thank you guys for hanging out God, guys. Thank you so much. This week was fucking fantastic. Yes. Thank you guys for hanging out with us through the holidays and still keeping us in your schedule. We really appreciate it, guys.

We couldn't do any of this without you guys. You are the ones that bring the coal. We'll shovel the damn coal. For sure. But you guys bring the coal. You pile it up. We're into it. And we will shovel it and shovel it until the end of time.

Damn it. Jimmy, what if one of these fine people wanted to get a hold of a guy like you? If you want to find me, at WismanSucks is my handle on Twitter, Snapchat, and Instagram. W-H-I-S-M-A-N sucks. This week was unbelievable from all of the Thanksgiving posts, all the happy Thanksgiving wishes. That was really amazing to feel and get. So thank you guys.

I'm glad to see how you guys spent time with your families. It was amazing. So thanks. Thank you. And I am at JimmyPIsFunny. You can follow me there or try to spell my last name. There's a sneaky I. Good luck.

Copy and paste it from the show description. Don't go crazy with it there. But please do that. Keep coming back over and over again every single damn week because we're not going anywhere. No. We're going to be here. We're going to keep coming. We're going to fight the good fight.

God, I don't know what that good fight is. We're going to find a fight. We're going to fight it. We're going to call it good. We're going to shut up and we're going to fight the good fight. God, I don't know what that good fight is. But we're going to find a fight. We're going to fight it. Bringing you murder. And we're going to call it good. We're going to shut up and we're going to give you murder. Yeah. So until next week, guys, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music.

Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott?

From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.