Small Town Murder - #461 - Wife Swap Snap - Beach City, Ohio

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

This week, in Beach City, Ohio, a very different kind of family goes on the reality show "Wife Swap", seeming a little odd, but having a real family connection. A few years later, things are much different, when police respond to a 911 hang up call, to find a horrible & bloody scene, with the killer still clinging to life. What could have caused this very close family to explode in violence?Along the way, we find out that we don't want anything to do with "Amish comedy", that there may be such a thing as too close of a fmaily, and that you can only control & monitor someone, so much, before bad results occur!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Beach City, Ohio, a very different kind of family who even appeared on the reality show Wife Swap end up in a tragedy worthy of reality TV. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay!

Ah-ha, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another insane edition of Small Town Murder as usual. And today, oh my goodness, do we have a crazy show. Hell yeah. Because we've never, it's, we always have to do research

and go deep and try to figure out people's, you know, like if it's a family, we're like, okay, what was the dynamic? And saw neighbors said this and aunt said this afterwards these people were on a reality show where the point of it was to write a manual of exactly what your family does so we've never had so much actual knowledge of how we live the intricate details of how a family lives so it's going to be just it's a wild episode can't wait to get into it first though definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com oh what's there you might ask tickets to live shows oh 12 live shows we have

for 2024 and let me tell you something they're selling extremely fast so get in there phoenix already sold out nashville already sold out these are well well in the future first up april 5th and 6th is sacramento san francisco get your tickets still tickets available there get those tickets right now and minneapolis if you sell out this venue this will be our biggest show ever unbelievable you will beat milwaukee and chicago chicago just did it last year people will say, what is the biggest show you ever did? And we'll always say Minneapolis. Minnesota is awesome.

So come and bring it and beat Chicago. Do that for us, please, Minneapolis. That's shutupandgivememurder.com. Tons of new merch up as well. You also definitely want to check out all the new merch and all that kind of stuff. And certainly you want to check out our new show, your stupid opinions and also, and also you should definitely listen to crime and sports. I'm telling you,

there's been some crazy stuff going on there. If you're lapsed on it or whatever, get back into crime and sports and have fun with that. So please do that. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. That is where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get,

first of all, a huge back catalog of bonus episodes, a couple hundred of them that you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get, first of all, a huge back catalog of bonus episodes, a couple hundred of them that you get immediately, new ones every other week, one crime and sports, one small-town murder, and you get access to it all. The whole thing. The whole thing. It's the best value in podcast, podcast Patreon. And this week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about the strangest injuries in sports history.

So there's some weird stuff in there it's fun stuff and then for small town murder we're going to get into something we haven't done in a while old-timey murders dip back into the newspaper articles and uh on the archives and wow were they very specific back in the day about murders they were just i mean these newspapers would compete for salaciousness and it's awesome so patreon.com slash crime and sports is where you get all of that and you get a shout out at the end of the show as well so that said disclaimer this is a comedy show we're comedians we're gonna make jokes so i don't know i can't that's never not gonna happen we can't help it but at the same time the stories are a thousand percent real they're not adding anything for effect or anything like that it's just sometimes life is funny you know right

death isn't that funny we don't make fun of the actual murder that's the thing but the life around it as far as someone going i think i can get away with this murder that's okay maybe if i just keep this person in my basement for a while everything will blow over that's funny i'm sorry that's a crazy thought and we're gonna make jokes about that kind of thing so that sounds good to you awesome you're gonna hear a wild show if you think true crime and comedy should never ever ever go together i don't know maybe we're not gonna mesh you never know either way you don't know no complaining later because you've been warned that said i think it's time everybody well what we do here by the way we should tell you we go out of our way not to make fun of the victims or the victims families

because we're assholes but we're not scumbags so that said I think it's time it's all clear the lungs what do you say everybody arms to the sky let's all shout shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip. Here we go. The bags are packed. We are going to Beach City, Ohio. Gross.

Yeah, Beach City. Because when I think of Ohio, I think beaches. I mean, the only one I've been to is Cleveland. I imagine there's another, right? Yeah, but I don't know how much beach activity is going on in Cleveland. It's not. It's pretty gross. I mean.

It's jagged boulder. Yeah. It's Lake Erie. It's not like it's, you know. Their beach is not a fucking beach. No, it's not. So Beach City, Ohio. And it's not very beachy.

It's like a farming rural area. It's strange. It's in northeast Ohio. It's about an hour and 10 minutes to Cleveland. So you're safe from Cleveland. That's good. About 45 minutes to Akron and 35 minutes to North Canton, Ohio, which was our last Ohio episode. The incredible disappearing head. Literally not a beach to be found. No beaches around here whatsoever. It's in Stark County. The stark lack of beaches is what's the thing that's attracting my attention. Area code 330. Little bit of history here. It has no industry, this town. It's just residential.

Just living. A lot of farming going on here. Just consuming. This is a family. Yeah. Every property that I've seen on the real estate report is not. If the property isn't large, it's the stuff around it is like, you know, farmland around it. It's not like a lot of neighborhoods.

It doesn't look like. So it used to be the center of a few industries, including a canning factory. Oh, yeah. A handle factory. You got to have those. We make handles here. That's one of those things you always think if you pull your dresser drawer out, you go, who the fuck makes those handles? That's somebody's job.

Who makes the pull? Someone said, I know the business that's going to make the family generationally wealthy. We're making handles. Somebody did it. Everybody's got to flush a toilet. Yeah. They had a rubber factory, wagon shops, a bunch of blacksmith shops, harness shops, that sort of thing. Wrist mills.

None of that shit's there. None of it exists. Nothing. It's all handles and farming. There is a Correll potato chip factory there. Corel? Corel. Corel.

I don't know how you say it. That's their own potato chips. Yeah, that's them. Do they contribute to somebody else? I don't know if they're a subsidiary. No idea. It's its own little thing. And I read the reviews, and people say they come from, you know,

oh, whenever I come back through here, I always stop and get my favorite chips.'s like a that's the midwest a hometown ship yeah i guess so nothing can compete with us i'm sorry so goddamn good so uh they had the falls house that was built in 1818 and was condemned in 1934 it's perfect it's a historical site but it's been condemned for 100 years so that's very nice I love when they're condemned. That's terrific, isn't it? And then they raised it. It was the oldest continuously operated tavern in the state. It was open for 115 years, and they just knocked it down.

Oh, okay. So that's what happens here. Three presidents stayed at the Falls House. Yeah. Benjamin Harrison was so impressed with the fishing that he brought his wife there for their honeymoon he loved he he stayed there on purpose on purpose also james garfield and william mckinley also stayed there so all right interesting reviews of this town let's find out what other people think because what the hell do we know um i looked

i tried there's not a lot of reviews so i tried to find maybe a like a hotel or a motel or a restaurant there is very little here i mean very little what's going on there's like a one little restaurant and it seems to have good reviews what are they close to not much not much right uh boulevard i think is the one uh town they're close to there's not cincinnati's a stretch yeah that's a deep ride they're close to. Cincinnati's a stretch. That's a deep ride. They're close to nothing. This is rural, rural area here. This isn't really a suburb. Maybe Canton, but outside of that, there's not a lot going on.

Even Canton is fucking rural. That's what I'm saying. This is like a suburb. That tells you a lot. It's just a farming community. There's not a lot here, so there's two reviews, and that's all there is here. Three stars. Good place to live.

Not many local jobs. That doesn't look like it, yeah, unless you want to work at the potato chip factory. Sure. Just a few smaller retail places within a 15-minute drive. Community is good, family-oriented, and small. Everyone know the next know then everyone know the next guy everyone know the guy that's sounds like an order everyone know the next guy let's go you introduce yourself the guy on your left man up you should know him everybody introduces the guy

on your left how's that everyone know the next guy thank you uh it's a mayoral you know the brook proclamation it's yeah uh three stars here next one it's only two three star reviews overall nice place to live there are some nicer areas and some shady areas but i guess you will have that in about any town yeah that's the ultimate three star review yeah it's right there a little of. A little of this, a little of that. There's some shit, some good. It's right in the middle. People in this town, 681, and not a lot. Small place.

No thousand on the, 681 people. 681 people in Beach City. So, yeah, not a lot of, I guess Bethlehem Township is like the, I guess, overall. The umbrella. The umbrella on it, but this is Beach City. More females than males by far. They got to be outnumbered by livestock, right? It must be out there.

I would imagine so because the farm we're going to talk about today, the people are outnumbered by livestock. Really? Yeah, absolutely. 55% female. I don't know how the hell that happened but that is farming gals way out of whack right there uh compared to normally normally it's just over 50 well the fellas are probably dead from farming accidents and they just took over they're dead from the war meaning world war ii so i think it's an older crowd around here too

all right yeah oh chet he died back in Korea. One of those. I got to feed them all. The median age here is 48.3, which is 10 years higher than the national average, 11 years higher than the national average. And there is a lot of old people here. Everything from 60 to up forever is way higher than the average. Wow. It's mainly a lot of old people it's one of these um

where it looks like about 25 people run away and then they come back when they're in their late 50s it's literally a dying town if people are dying the the people are dying yeah the town's fine it's standing there just fine but the people themselves they're gonna die uh it's about 59 percent married which is higher than the average only eight percent are single with children which is lower than the average so it's families on their farms type of deal uh race uh race breakdown in this town 97.1 white so pretty pretty pretty white 0.0 percent black 0.6 percent asian and 0.7 percent hispanic so fascinating white is what that says uh religion here a little bit lower than the national average actually really actually

surprising to me yeah it's 46.9 percent it's usually 50 50 and the highest denomination here is other christian faith so just fucking hot it's everything lutherans methodists baptists pentecostals presbyterians catholics you name it it's in here 0.4 percent jewish we don't quite make the uh hava nagila cut off unfortunately but it's uh 0.4 percent last election here um 39 0.9 percent of the people in stark County voted for the Democratic candidate, 58.4% Republican candidate, and 1.6% Independent. And the unemployment rate here is about average for the national rate. Median household income, a little bit low, though. It's about $48,750 a year.

Usually it's about $69,000. That's the average. And farming makes good money. I wonder what's going on. Well, these farms, these farms i think are mainly from what it looks like i don't i'm sure there's bigger farms that are more for sales but they seem like they're family farms that they kind of run okay for themselves like the people we'll talk about here so maybe they don't report that income maybe they don't report that maybe it's a lot of cash transactions possibly or a lot of it is kind of subsistence also you know you're making meat for your family type of deal not to sell really you keep the neighbor fed with corn and they feed you with

t-bombs it's that kind of deal yeah yeah so the cost of living 100 being average regular here it is 78 so a little bit low and the housing is the low thing median home cost here 178, so a little bit low. And the housing is the low thing. Median home cost here, $178,100. That is very affordable. Very affordable. That's low. So if we've convinced you, damn it, you're going to find a beach in Beach City, we have for you. Here we go. The beach, get your flippers on, because we have for you the Beach City, Ohio, Real Estate Report.

The average two-bedroom rental here goes for way cheaper than the national average, $860 a month. So that is low here. I found a three-bedroom, two-bath. This is 1,578 square feet. It's on 1.78 acres. It's just a little raised ranch in the middle of nowhere. With almost two acres? With almost two acres.

It even has, I don't know if this comes with the house or what, but it has, like, furniture from the 70s in it. Like, old. It's a grandma special. Grandma died, and they're like, listen, we moved the body. Everything else is everything else is yours you want to buy this place you call it all vintage if you want but call it whatever you want to call it but uh grandma thought it was pretty comfortable so maybe you'll like it 225 500 bucks for that okay gem which is a decent price for some land too uh here's a three bedroom two bath 1798 square foot house a little bit you know bigger it's long it's just a long thin house yeah that's kind of the way to put it uh has a homemade ramp in the front like a bicycle ramp no no no like somebody oh like a

wheel like a wheelchair ramp and somebody was like I'll just put up a board there for you. That's what it feels like. Doesn't really. It looks like whoever is in that chair could be in danger entering the house. Just on the ramp. So it's a lot of weird stuff in here. Weird colors. Lime green.

Burgundy. Blue. All mixed together. It's a strange house. Pretty ugly. $370,000 for that thing, though. How many acres, though? I don't know how many acres on that one.

Didn't say. It better be seven for justifying that price. It better be pretty damn cool for that, because the house needs a lot of work. You're not going to just move in and be like, sweet, that's an awesome ramp. There's a lot of work to be done. Yeah, let me get my skateboard. Here's a three-bedroom, two-bath. They're all three-bedroom, two-bath.

5,710 square feet. Oh, boy. Fucking 11 big rooms. No, this is actually one giant room because this is in the next town over, but it's an old church. It's got the big giant, like, it sticks up with the bell tower and all that kind of thing. You could

stand up there and yell shit at people. It'd be awesome. I kind of want it. Just hurl insults at people from the bell tower. It was on House Hunters, actually. Really? Yes, I've actually seen this episode. That's why I was like, oh my god, I've seen that one. Yeah. So it's pretty cool. It's pretty neat looking inside. There's no walls, though. It's like a

big room. Yeah, I think somebody bought it and then restored it and did all that. $ 000 bucks for that though it's cool that would be great it's really cool they've turned it into a cool house the only thing is like right in the center of town so you have to that would be amazing though to have a three-bedroom two-bath church yeah and you are fucking in the church the only thing that would suck is you know people are going to wander up from time to time yeah and want to like you know and want salvation like can i get a prayer is there any uh you scream salvation to be had kind of she's screaming oh my god you just scream the devil's eating your soul and slam the door and they're like ah they run away crying they're like i went to a church and

yeah i would definitely have a quick little priest outfit that i pop on just to pop out just a collar. Say crazy. Yeah, just the collar because I'm going to just stick my head out the door, say some crazy shit and slam the door in their faces every time they come in just to freak them out. Yeah. That church is fucked up up the road, man. The snake puppet. Oh, boy.

Things to do in this town. Yeah. The Amish Country Theater. No. The Amish Country Theater. No. The Amish Country Theater. Here's their pitch for this. Yeah. I got a lot of questions.

I think they're going to answer them here. You got to amplify. And to amplify, you need fucking electricity. Yes. Well, this is the Amish. It doesn't say the people are Amish. It just says it's the Amish country theater. So that just might...

We'll talk. Here we go. Here's their pitch. Hold on to your seats and get ready for some explosive laughter. Okay. Explosive is for explosives and diarrhea. Those are the words you use explosive for. Not for laughter.

No? No, because that means you're gonna shit yourself it feels like explosive yeah tnt wow diarrhea yeah the shows are designed to be fun for the whole family from the littlest youngins to the orneriest grandpappy there's not an explosive laugh to be had that uh an old person and all the way down to a child shares. Not one. No, that's a filthy joke the youngin' isn't going to get and the old man won't appreciate. And he's not going to laugh at anything that kid laughs at. The orneriest grandpappy.

You'll meet nationally acclaimed ventriloquist Ken Groves, who's been featured on 14 national television appearances. Now, when I said you'll meet nationally acclaimed did anybody think the next word out of my mouth was ventriloquist this one fucking person that's listening to this show hundreds of thousands of people did anybody say he's gonna say ventriloquist there's only two right there's only two that everybody knows national i don't know who this guy is so i don't know i guess there's only one that everybody knows. I don't know who this guy is, so I don't know. I guess there's only one that everybody knows, and the other one is dead.

It's dead, Otto and George. Only comedians knew him, I think. I think you're right. Or just East Coast, Philly, and New York, and Jersey. That's the only people who know him. Yeah, and then you know the other one, obviously, who... The worst. We won't speak his name.

So, you'll laugh with comedian Leonard spelled like Leonard Skinner. Skinner. Yeah. Leonard, a spotlight stealing country bumpkin who's as unpredictable as an Ohio spring. Leonard is the. No, no. Leonard is the comedian. A comedian.

Oh, he's another one one he comes out and does his country bumpkin act for you all right you know because he ha hasn't been done 60 years ago and don't forget the famous amish comedy trio let me repeat that don't forget the famous that's why i said i had to repeat because everybody went the fuck, and just adjusted their radio or their phone. Never heard of them. Amish comedy trio. There's three. Three.

I can't think of one. The Beachies, they are, they're called. Oh, okay. And Fannie Mae, whose parody songs and jokes about farm living will keep you laughing the whole way home. Fannie Mae, the lady that took a bunch of houses away from people and and makes candy in the midwest yeah i am this sounds like my nightmare i would rather do do we get microphones and everybody gets to roast the act because this is is stupid. This sounds, if you tied me to a fucking chair, I would figure out a way to knock myself over and with my tongue pull myself away from this situation.

Out of microphone range. They have the Amish Country Theater's Greatest Hits Show. That's on January 23rd. Enjoy the best of Amish Country Theater as our comedy cast performs their favorite stuff from over a decade's worth of shows. Sounds like a fucking medley. Comedy karaoke? It's a medley of all their favorite sketches they've done,

it sounds like. Oh, jeez. The show is jam-packed with comedy sketches, parody songs, music, and the overall hilarity that has made the Amish country theater the award-winning production that keeps people coming back time and time again. Oh, my God.

Experience the ultimate tribute to the iconic country music band Rascal Flats. Oh, no! You don't want to hear people covering Rascal Flats? Covering Rascal Flats who covers other people. Fuck that. Broken Road is the name of their band. Of course. Hailed as the hottest new country music tribute band in America, which means not hailed as anything.

That's not a hot act, a tribute band. It's never a hot act. You're at bars and this sort of shit. It's fun, but it's not a hot act, a tribute band. It's never a hot act. You're at bars and this sort of shit. It's fun, but it's not a hot act here. They say they capture the essence of Rascal Flatts' music. Ew. That is something. Gross.

Wow. The Valentine's Spectacular comedy show as well. On Valentine's Day, obviously. It's a one-of-a-kind comedy show where the audience creates the show. That's right we leave it up to you the audience to pick what you want to see from our menu of greatest hits from the past decade of comedy how about you know get a fucking act and come out there and do it and make people laugh don't let them pick some horse shit and then you do yeah this is asinine this isn't whose line.

And there's not even a Drew Carey here. Stop it. This is terrible. None of you are good at this. Then we pack your selected bits, comedy routines, and sketches into one giant, and these are all with an N apostrophe, side-splitting, rib-tickling, knee-slapping, spectacular two-hour show. Holy shit. Kill me.

Now I want to see it. I kind of do, too, as a matter of fact uh just so i can go wow the late night comedy shows with leonard you know he can get a little blue he's the he's the dirty one talking about farm animals fucking humping each other and shit here um i don't know what to say then there's this This sucks bad. Then there's a bunch of food. Amish-style home-cooked meals, which I have no idea what that is. What do they eat? If I said, we're going out to a restaurant tonight.

Oh, yeah? Where are we going? It's Amish. You'd go, what the fuck does that mean? Potatoes and stuff? Or corn? Do we take our shoes off for this? Is that what it is? Do we have to sit on the floor and eat?

Do I have to get my hat blocked? Should I do that? Is this important? Is this like to sit on the floor and eat? Do I have to get my hat blocked? Should I do that? Is this important? Is this like an Indian restaurant with corn and potatoes? You just use the bread as a fork? Is that what this is? You just pick shit up with the bread? It's an Indian restaurant where you just use biscuits.

You know how it is. It's biscuits. Instead, you tear pieces off of it. Amish-style home-cooked meal, late-night desserts, ice cream, great snacks and appetizers, and a whole lot more. It says you won't have to spend a dime once you're on board. It's all the food and fun. So make your reservation. I don't know, it doesn't even say

what this costs at all. It's prepaid. Just give us your credit card, we'll take care of the rest. They call it a land cruise, because once you're in there it's all inclusive. It's all inclusive and it's all sorts of fun. And they call Leonard the cruise director. That's what they call him.

Wow. The cruise director is the guy with the filthy jokes. That sounds awful. Okay. Crime rate in this town, not including that. That aside, that is terrible. Crime rate, property crime in this town, right about an average, which for a small town like this, who's stealing anything? You'd know exactly who did it.

631 people. I saw Bill. He was stealing my shit. It's very obvious. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is under half the national average. So it's who the hell are you killing, honestly? You've got to walk and go so far.

You can't afford to lose anybody else. No, no. Plus, you go, it's so far. Like, who are you going to kill? That guy's miles away. Fuck him, you know? Never mind. I don't have to deal with him.

That said, let's talk about some murder here. Here we go. There's some good stuff here from an article from Medium.com by a guy named Nick Young. So just to put that out there. I like to give credit where credit's due when somebody pulls good details here. Well done, Nick. Now, let's start out with, we're going to go back in time, not very far here. Sometimes we go back to the 70s.

We're going back to a time when it's pretty much the same as it is now. I mean, it's still iPhones and Instagram and all this type of shit. June 15th, 2017. Oh, boy. Very recently. So this day, the Stark County Police Department, they receive a 911 call at 436 p.m. Basically yesterday. That's basically yesterday.

It's a hang-up call, though. And they hung up as soon as 911 picked up. They realize this is made, and it's not a cell hang-up. It's a landline, which in 2017, that's rare enough as it is. Where did you find that? So they're like, it's an Amish person. We know. That we know.

They're at least Mennonites, something. So the protocol, obviously, for the cops is to dispatch police to the location. Well, they call it back, and there's no answer. So if there's no answer when they call back and they can't get a clarification, they have to send somebody out. Because sometimes it's a kid that did it. A lot of times, and you'll see this if you watch on patrol patrol live pd whatever they'll show up for a 9-1-1 call and the guy will be like huh and he'll be like yeah 9-1-1 call from this number he goes well that's my number he goes i've been in the phone's been in my pocket i've been doing yard work be like covered in dirt and they

just happen to hit that emergency thing by accident five times and it called 9-1-1 so that's normal for that but yeah a phone a landline phone you have to pick up and dial it and hang it up. So it's different. So they go to the location of the call. It's a farm. It's a small family farm. The name of the family is the Stockdales that live there. And so they show up to see if everything's okay.

And they figure out pretty quick that something's not right here. Here is Sheriff George T. Meyer. He said, at about 4.36 p.m., our office received a 911 call from the residents. It was a landline call, not a cell phone call. It was a hang-up call. At that time, after we received the hang-upup call which we do on a number of cases on a daily basis we respond to deputies to the residents to make sure so they show up and this is like we said normally this is just some fucking kid did it or it's it's 99 of the time it's nothing so yeah they walk up pretty calmly to the home here um and the one police

officer said upon my arrival to the front door the front door is ajar by the way it's wide open not wide open but oh just it's partially open so they're like okay he said i observed an individual lying on his back with his head facing the front door. That's not great. As I was about to ask the individual if he was okay, I heard a single gunshot coming from inside the residence. So he's in the doorway with somebody lying there going, hey, you all right, man? And just as that, and it's a shotgun blast too so if you're in a house and there's a shotgun blast that is fucking loud and as a cop you can

recognize that oh that's a shotgun blast and that's one of those where if you're not expecting it and you hear a blast like that inside you'll jump i mean you'll your body will physically jump it's a very very loud i understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of Part 1

and watching along with Part 2 as it airs on Max, starting April 21st. Bye-bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or wherever you get your podcasts. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott?

From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Aaron and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to generation Y ad free right now by joining Wondery plus. So the cops obviously fled from the door. They didn't know if they were firing upon the cops or what.

They had no idea. So they fled the door and ran for cover and called for backup. Holy shit. There's like an active firefight going on in this fucking house we're not prepared for that um neighbors nearby will say that before the cops arrived between 1 p.m and 3 p.m at some point they heard between 10 and 12 gunshots that's a lot that's a lot and these are rural people that can recognize what they are they all say it sounded like shotgun shots all of them that's a lot. That's a lot. And these are rural people that can recognize what they are.

And they all say it sounded like shotgun shots, all of them. That's a lot. That many and didn't do anything. I guess. I mean, out there, out there could be anything.

Could be target practice. Could be putting something out of its, you know, putting an animal out of its misery. Who knows? Some mad cows. Could be hunting. Could be,

I don't know what the hell people do on a farm, but I feel like cleaning it. That's yeah. Could have been an accident still. None of my concern. People tend to mind their business out here on the farm. So the next door neighbor, Harry McNutt Jr. That a boy.

Harry McNutt with two Ts. I had a couple of boys at my high school named McNutt. The McNutt boys? Yeah. Wow. That is quite the handle. McNutt. It's a tough name. It is.

You want to put something on the end of it there. Yeah. It's tough. So he's the next door neighbor, the McNutster here. He heard all of this. He said, quote, it was a rapid boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, then time to reload reload and then another five or six shots so i thought it was target practice that's why they didn't call the cops somebody was firing off at targets fucking off shooting yeah unloading unloading a shotgun rapid uh is is that's rarely

i mean boom boom boom you know i mean in a row like that yeah session target you rarely think that yeah they're not shooting at, they're not hurting anybody. Yeah, because normally you'd have to shoot, then aim, and then shoot again. Right, right. Boom, boom, boom. Or you are destroying whatever the fuck you're shooting at. You're blasting the fuck out of people. So when they get inside the house, the police, the backup comes.

They don't hear any more shots for a while. Everything is calm. No responses from the house. They decide to go into the backup comes. They don't hear any more shots for a while. Everything is calm. No responses from the house. They decide to go into the home here. They're going to find a fucking horrible bloodbath of a scene here. And we will talk about that in a little bit here. Let's find out who lives in this house. Yeah.

What time is it now? Who the fuck lives here? 4.30 in the afternoon, this is happening. Okay. Yeah, broad daylight. Yeah, by the time they get a little bit late. It's June, too, so it's going to be light out to late 30. So, yeah, by the time they get a little bit later, by the time they actually go into the house because they have to secure it and make sure that there's nobody in there that's about to shoot at them.

So let's find out the family here. Now, the father of this family, the patriarch of the family here, is named Timothy Stockdale. He's Timothy Stockdale. He is born in 1960. He's from Michigan. And when he was in college, he met a woman named Catherine Miller. Kathy, she goes by. He goes by Tim.

And he marries her in 1985. So this is the couple. She's a couple years younger than him. She's born in 62. She is from Illinois, Hoffman Estates, Illinois, which does not sound like a town. It sounds like Hoffman Estates. Oh, yeah. It sounds like a gated community, doesn't it?

It's over there in Hoffman Estates with those rich twats over there. You know who I'm talking about. There's only like 30 houses in there. Yeah. It's over there in Hoffman Estates with those rich twats over there. You know who I'm talking about. There's only like 30 houses in there. Yeah. It's gated. You'll see. They're giant. Yeah.

Just wait until somebody else goes in and then go in close behind them. You'll get in through the gate. Don't worry. Her parents are Morris and Barbara Miller. And she's got a brother and a sister and another brother who died at some point in there. Not sure how that happened. Okay. She did not kill him. We know that.

Okay. Not Kathy's fault here. Now, she went to Beaver Creek High School in Greene County, Ohio, and graduated in 81. She was in track, cross country, and soccer. And she graduated from Ohio State University with a Bachelor of Science degree in agriculture with a major in agronomy, which I guess is economy of agriculture. Okay. It's how to sell your shit, how to farm for real. For real, for real farm.

Yeah. Not just fucking growing shit. This is as a business. And that is where they met was in the agronomy club. Agronomy club. All American gal. Yeah. Athletic. as a business and that is where they met was in the in agronomy club agronomy club all american gal yeah athletic uh can farm salt of the earth pull dinner out of the ground yeah fucking and then make it and then run back to the house and fucking yeah no arrest and make it and then do some science after that like she's got a lot going on and kick your ass in soccer and figure out how to value it all she was also a member of the ohio state women's soccer team

which is wow cool as fuck i mean she's actually a college soccer team varsity varsity college athlete at a major ohio state is a huge athletic school that's huge even in the 80s it was big so and now it's obviously huge too too. So they get together. And like I said, they met in that club. And then they started hanging out. What did he do? He went to the war? No, no.

He was in the class as well, the agronomy class. Oh, OK. Oh, OK. Got it. He's into farm stuff as well. Both of them, their goal is to have a farm and run a farm and make money off a farm and have a family and all that. So they do. They get married in 85.

Okay. And they have, okay, let's talk about their sons here. They're going to have, I believe, five sons is what I could muster out of them. Now, they're going to be on this wife swap show, as we'll talk about. But on the wife swap show, you're only going to see four of the sons because the other son is off at college during that time. They don't really mention him. And maybe that was to not confuse the audience, as I will tell you this. And this is the weirdest thing that we've ever had on our show.

Oh, boy. 1988, they have a son. His name is Calvin. Yeah. Okay. 1989, they have a son yeah his name is calvin yeah okay 1989 they have another son no they didn't they fucking name him calvin why they have their first two sons who are a year apart are both named calvin i can't even wrap my brain around why you would do that big fucking uh back to the future fans why would you name them calvin is it like a calvinist or they said it's a religion a religious thing because they're at that time the only thing for that name was calvin and hobbs or cal rick and fan

i don't know it's gotta be it's gotta be back to the future right calvin klein that was just after calvin klein though yeah right but but that's why she called him that yeah but this is like they're they're so as we talk about when we say devoutly religious we're talking about like their whole lifestyle they wouldn't even i don't even think either one of them would they would like hate calvin klein yeah because it's underwear so yeah they're not into if It's too far. Underwear where it'll really show the outline of your balls, and I don't think that's what they're into

here. So they name their first two sons Calvin. I can't describe to you how fucking weird that is to me. Different middle names, same kid. Calvin. So it's like George Foreman named all his kids George, the boxer. Right, but his name's not Calvin.

But then the fucked up part is then they have three more kids. They don't name any of them Calvin. What are they? Either they're all Calvin or you got one Calvin. You can't say you two are Calvin and the rest of you aren't. Because then you're saying, hey, Calvins, come here. And then the rest of you, it doesn't work. Do you call the second one c2

yeah i just called him calvin too in all of my in all of my notes here i just put calvin too because he's calvin too because we don't the original og calvin here yeah he's gone in this whole story we know nothing about him he grew up and dipped because it was too confusing back home and when you hear about this family you're gonna go wow i would get i would have got out of there real fast as well because it is stifling this is a environment so 1992 charles is born okay and then 1993 jacob is born calvin calvin charles jacob jacob is i'm sorry 91 is charles 92 is jacob i apologize and then 97 or so james is born okay so they have five sons calvin calvin charles james james three c's and two j's it's a full house it is wild they live on this farm yeah uh he is going his job is

to i guess deliver farm stuff animal uh nutrients they said and like um i guess vitamins things like that he delivers a feed store all All over Ohio, yeah. Yeah. So that's what he does. I guess it's like specialty shit, though. A feed store delivery that's specific to animals. Yeah, and specialized stuff. They're very into organic farming. Their whole farm is all organic and this and that.

The way they talk about their farm is very like hipster like it sounds like it sounds like alice waters is talking about it there was a no pesticides yeah no anything like that and the purity of all that but at the same time they're not like you know armpit hair hippie people at all they're fucking actually hardcore as devoutly religious conservative in the religious sense as you could be like it's it's wild they have tons of rules in the house very strict parenting kathy rules the house with an iron fist she's the one oh boy does she um they have it's i mean the family is very close because they don't do anything else the kids kids are homeschooled. Yeah, yeah. There's a reality show called Welcome to Plathville, and it's this family who – it's really creepy.

They're all extremely blonde. Everybody in the family is super blonde, and they raise the kids, same thing, on a farm where the kids are not allowed to do anything. They're not allowed any TV video games nothing they're you know they're just on a farm and they're homeschooled and and you know they do farm work and run around and climb trees barefoot and i admire the fuck out of that but it's fucking weird isn't it it's difficult because at some point unless they're going to just live on the farm for the rest of their life which then you're deciding for them that's really the only thing they're prepared for. Otherwise, they're going to have to go into the world where that's not the world.

And you have no idea how to deal with other people who actually might mean you harm because you've never dealt with anyone who's ever meant you harm. Like my dog. Sorry, go ahead. When I bought my house, I was when I was shopping, I found a house that it was it was too much house for me anyway. It was but it was it was a decent price. I was going, I found a house that it was too much house for me anyway. But it was a decent price. I was going to buy it.

But then they told me what was happening in there. And I was like, I don't want this house. It was a homeschool thing that was all adoption. And they were just like very secular and seclude. But like it's in a neighborhood. How are you so seclude? It's fucking weird. That's weird.

Yeah. If you're in that kind of neighborhood. Yeah. So these kids aren't going to have any sense of danger in the world. No, no. Yet their parents tell them that everything and everybody is dangerous and can't be trusted and everything's evil and everything's bad, but then they've never experienced it, so they're never going to understand.

Like, if someone comes across as nice, they're just going to think they're nice and they're going to be your classic Rube, basically. Yeah, they're going to get, they're going to be your classic Rube, basically. Yeah. They're very vulnerable. Yeah. Well, like I might have my saying, my dog, Oscar, I was looking at him the other day and he loves everybody. He comes up to everybody, you know, I mean, fucking wags his tail. Holy shit.

And I thought about it and I said, no one's ever been mean to him. Never. Never. To him, every person is a wonderful person who will just be nice and pet him. And cause he's never, literally no one's ever been mean to him. He's just got this purity of him. It's like, God, he'd be just meat out there in the world because he has no idea. Oh, God. A delicious morsel

to anything. No idea how horrible everything is. They also play together, starting when they're small even. They start playing in a family bluegrass band. Yikes. Where they start playing in a family bluegrass band yikes where they all play in the band and kind of yeah as the kids go it's going to happen is as the kids leave the house

when they're older when they go off to college or whatever they are going to um leave the band yeah they're going to be bullied and have a hard time finding sexual partners and leave the band at the same time so that's how that's gonna work in the family band calvin to calvin the second one uh he plays the banjo okay charles plays the mandolin there yeah jacob plays the fiddle he's the fiddle guy which i think that's kind of your your lead guy right the fiddle guy oh i think the banjo is the lead guy really in a blue gotta be he's gotta be the guy that keeps the time he does like fiddling solos though oh does he i think he's like the slash of the group you know what i mean yeah he goes off the rock star you know i mean a banjo you can only do so much yeah the fiddle's my favorite one i don know, the mandolin's pretty fucking good, too. And James, the youngest one, plays the upright bass. So watching him at like 11 playing a bass that's a foot taller than him is pretty fucking hilarious.

Because it's huge. Upright basses are fucking amazing. They're cool as shit. So Tim, he's the father, obviously. He plays the guitar. So that's your band. That's the lead guy. That's your that's the lead guy that's your

band and they play like okay i saw some of the footage of some of their gigs oh they've played the amish thing that we talked about and the things to do like they everything they play the video is them playing and the crowd they have good crowds they draw i mean a hundred couple hundred people or something but they are all a hundred years old no one in that crowd is under 80 i mean it is because they're doing like they're not doing like you know any kind of like edgy shit they're doing like no pop goes the weasel like bluegrass style and like and like old you know old standards and like stuff like that like from the 30s and like walking down that country road and i saw my sweet honey you know shit like that and you're like i mean there's an audience i guess for that but it's not it's not the audience is 100 years old that wants that yeah yeah i guess and you can't really country

fry anything up like that you know you can't that. You can't take any new shit and change it a little bit. You can't do Ace of Base, The Sign, Bluegrass style. I don't think that would work. It would draw you some attention, but it would be a- Show me that pussy, show it to me. Yeah, it would be a little bit different. Let me see that pussy. That would be fucking fun.

That's what I would like. They keep up on all the latest hip hop and they just, that would be an amazing band. So that's the band. They live in this rural area. They had moved here. They didn't always live here. They lived with their kids in a regular place,

but then moved to the farm. A, because they wanted a farm. They both, I mean, let's face it, they went to college. That's what they do. To fucking farm. That's the thing. But also to, quote, get away from the sins of the city. Uh-oh.

Like, like, and this is the things they were really on their list, violent language. I'm more worried about violent actions than language sexual influences drinking smoking drugs you know the usual and rap music don't want to hear in that right because that's all those things in one that's violent language sexual influence drinking smoking drugs all in one group. That's actually catchy. That's tough. Tough to keep the kids away from that.

Done with poetry. Yeah. The Stockdales, very religious, and a lot of their stuff is of their conservatism in terms of keeping the kids here. Not politically. I'm talking about just in your house. Morally is really what it would be. Yeah. Yeah.

It's to keep them away from everybody else. They're homeschooled, which there's plenty of that going on, but no TV, no video games. Also, no dating whatsoever. None at all. When they go on wife swap, Calvin, too, is 19 years old. Never been on. Not allowed to go on a date.

Oh, he's 19. He's never been on a date before. I've never been allowed to be on one. And we'll hear his quote about it. And you're like, get the fuck out of here, bro. You're full of shit. So makes you wonder, like, what do you think you're protecting them from? Yeah.

Well, I mean, at some point they're gonna be on their own so you at some point you have to have prepared them in some way shape or form i'm not saying they you know there's a happy medium here yeah but the other part like if to get married you have to go on a date you can't marry someone yes and then go on a date with no unless you arrange their marriage which i don't know how much of that's going on in Ohio. You know what I mean? It seems unfair in 2017. I don't know how how much of that's happening. That is why it's interesting.

So they're not anything. Nothing from the outside world is allowed in this house, basically. And they said that all those things make people young people lazy and ruins their minds. Those things make young people lazy and ruins their minds. Kathy, mom, said, we moved to the farm to develop wholesome values in our children. Quote, unquote. Tim says this, the day we moved in, I heard gunshots in our old neighborhood and I knew we made the right decision. Meaning as they were moving out of the old house,

they heard gunshots and they were like, thank God we're going to the farm. When they say grace, that's good enough for me. Close enough. Close enough. Someone's getting beat up somewhere. It was pops and noises.

I want out. Someone's listening to rap music in this neighborhood somewhere. When they say grace at dinner. Yeah. And people do varying everything from no grace, obviously, like me and you. And then some people say like a few words quickly. Some people say a little bit more. They sing a fucking song.

I'm not shitting you. No, we don't. It's a harmonized, like two minute long song that's grace the food's cold by the time they're done with the second verse like when we hit this bridge can we at least eat the potatoes because they're starting there's icicles on the asparagus there's a skin on the gravy now this is fucking ridiculous can we sing this like while the dinner's almost ready? Right. To get prepared for it. But they sing Grace.

It's like, and all of his love and his money on the farm. And it's like in a bluegrassy tone and shit. Oh, wait. It's wild. I mean, I guess it looks like they're having fun doing it, but they seem to like to sing, harmonize and shit. The kids don't know any better, you know? They seem to like to sing, harmonize and shit. The kids don't know any better, you know?

I'd rather have the Ben Stiller grace for meet the fuckers or meet the parents, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, God. Oh, God. Something awkward. Somebody make it fucking awkward in here. I don't know. I mean, singing makes it awkward. Maybe that's the thing.

Imagine in Wife Swap when the new wife comes in and sits there and they're like, we're going to say grace now. Well, the Lord had told me potatoes are good for you. She's like, what the fuck? We're walking in high cotton. She gets up and leaves the table to go mess with the food because she's like, I don't know what to do. I don't know the song. They're all sitting there.

The way they're doing it, too, there's no joy in their faces. They're all sitting there like stone face. She's like, I'm getting up now. Oh, my. It's weird. We've never seen or known more about a family in our stories of anybody in our history here. So they lived on this farm, like we said. Now they're growing up.

They're expected to do tons of chores. They have an elaborate system which will be explained later better in their manual but they have an elaborate system where chores it's a chart the chore chart where all the boys are on there and all the chores but it's not just the chore chart because a lot of people have a chart so you can keep track of shit if you have a bunch of kids yeah these are rewarded by tokens okay and marked off the chart and these tokens and you get tokens for doing the job and doing it well let's say you get a token and then you get a token if they did it with a smile if they had a good attitude you get extra

tokens and shit like that now they could spend these tokens they had to earn these tokens so they could spend them for recreational privileges meaning not farm work or bible study so creepy and 20 tokens you'd be allowed to listen to a quote family-friendly approved radio show like it's 1938 radio come on kids let's pretend it's the depression those exist in 2017 roosevelt's fireside chats coming on fell let's pretend it's the depression those exist in 2017 roosevelt's fireside chats coming on fell let's see where hitler is today i heard he's invaded poland what the fuck are you talking about for war of the world yeah you know they do like on the am especially the religious do they still do it oh it's all religious shit they're listening to

they're not allowed to like listen to top 40 or 40 or I'm going to put on Hot 97 now. This is not that. But they do a family show still on the radio. Oh, my God. On the AM there, boy. That's what they got here. So about the chore chart, Kathy says this. Quote, the chart also addresses attitudes.

Just because the job is done doesn't necessarily mean it's done in the right way. So, you know, really? Oh, it's just because the dog shit's picked up doesn't mean you did it right. Maybe you didn't do it with a smile. Maybe you didn't do it with gusto that the Lord requires. I'm not sure. But the cows is milked. But it's going to curdle because you were sour about it. with gusto that the lord requires i'm not sure but the cows is milked but uh that shit's gonna

curdle because you were sour about it yeah see the look in their eye you could have gave him another tug or two that's all i'm saying that cow said almost buddy you see him look at him her nippies is red yep so she said we don't allow any cussing i think that dating has physical dangers like pregnancy. It's not worth it. Well, sex has that. Just going out on a date with a girl and going to the movies, it's impossible to get pregnant. It really is. You really have to put your dick in them to get them pregnant. You really got to put your dick in it.

You really got to get your dick in there. And pretty far, too. You really got to get it in there for a minute, too. You can't just give it one little, hey hey how's it going poking out and yeah leave you know she's so rigid about she's so rigid about the about the chores wouldn't you just be like the the way to not have children is this way it just yeah conversation fucking education just don't do it no just don't do it and stay away rather than educate them on the subject just have them stay away from it

completely and you don't have to know about it that's staying but what if they go to college and some girl grabs their dick yeah and it gets hard and they're like oh my god they're gonna they're not gonna i don't have they're not gonna know about condoms or anything else that girl's gonna be pregnant in five minutes that's what's gonna happen so and if you don't if you're not gonna i don't have they're not gonna know about condoms or anything else that girl's gonna be pregnant in five minutes that's what's gonna happen so and if you don't if you're not like good with your dick you know like if you don't know like what's about to happen good with you can't you mean that like i'm good with it like i know what's up with it not like it's happening not like you can make it do tricks no no no no okay it doesn't dance nor walk the dog hold on a minute check it out let's me rock the cradle let's do this hey don't do that uh but if you if you know the

feelings that you're that you that happen while you know during sexual activity you can pull out or even if you wear a condom you can get out still you know i mean if you're trying to not get that in there yeah yeah there are things you can do stay away from to this family the vagina is like a black hole oh boy if you get near it it'll suck you into it and then you're just lost in space forever and then you've got children you're gone so they just have them you're not allowed around girls stay away from the vagina yeah well they don't talk to girls they don't they don't know anything about it and they all seem to like girls so yeah um she said though uh physical dangers like pregnancy it's not worth it it's important we have control over their character and their

education why don't you let them be the judges of if it's worth it or not? Because somebody else making you cum versus you doing it is it's worth it. The word control is the most important word in that entire paragraph. Yeah, you're right. Because she controls and Tim too, but Tim's at work a lot, so he's not there all the time. So

she is there all the time doing the homeschooling and everything like that. So Kathy controls every aspect of their life. I mean, what their attitude is while picking up dog shit. I mean, it's down to that micro of managing these boys. Where's your smile? Yeah. So Tim said, quote, it's important that we instill in our children that you need to work and not expect a handout.

Well, that's good. Work ethic is something you should instill in your children. Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. It's just an extreme here. And not expect a handout. We raise a lot of our own vegetables. We raise all of the meat that we eat. All of it?

All of it. That's how they do it. Now, here we go. Let me show you. If you pull over here, I'll give you a turn the monitor. That is the Stockdale family band. Is that dad on the guitar? That's dad here.

He's so young. He looks really young. Dad looks super young for some reason. So there's dad and there's little James. So we've got four. The bass is bigger than him. So who's that over there on the left? That is Calvin 2.

Okay. So Calvin 2, Charles, Tim, and little James, and that's Jacob there with the fiddle. Okay. Okay. So there we go. That's the Stockton family band. Now, Mom, Kathy is- They all look very the same. They look really similar, especially Calvin.

Calvin and Charles look a lot alike. They just look like different boys or the same boy in different times of his life in one picture. Tim looks like Joel Osteen, by the way. Yes, he does. That's the best way to describe him is he looks pretty much exactly like Joel Osteen. Yeah, same type of hair, same face, too, just that same type of face. So the band is actually very successful in terms of what a family christian bluegrass band is you know like i said it they play all the you know the the barn dances literally

and the you know the amish thing and the county fair and all that country brady lunch yeah it's a couple hundred 80 year old people pull up plastic lawn chairs because i watched it they're all in plastic lawn chairs and they watch the show. So they regularly competed in national and regional competitions and performed it everywhere. There's bluegrass. They also used their music as they would basically use it as religious stuff, too. They would do like religious bluegrass music as well which is a genre i'm sure i mean yeah there's there's there's christian everything there's a big vent the big middle of that venn diagram where yeah you know bluegrass fans and christianity probably mesh i would think where

they would both like both of those things so me you know in this part of the country in kentucky and that sort of thing so they began publicly performing around 2006. Before that, they would regularly play music in the house. Dad would play guitar. The kids would bang on in fucking pots and pans until they were old enough to figure out how to hold a stand-up bass in place. Play a string. And so Tim would play guitar. They won four first-place awards in regional bluegrass contests over the years.

Yeah. And they also placed second in the single mic championship and the youth in bluegrass competitions. Wow. They also released four CDs. What? They don't write any of their own music, by the way. No, of course not. Until after 2008.

They don't write any of their own music, by the way, until after 2008. But for the first couple years, they just do, you know, old religious songs and covers and shit like that. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro,

who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan

and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes.

You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent

Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop

in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes you should tune in to our podcast morbid follow morbid on the wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining wondery plus and the wondery app or on apple podcasts um they released four cds they worked for a while as the house band for the amish country theater comedy shows is that right absolutely they'd come on do their little bluegrass thing and then leonard would come out and fucking make you want to kill some dick jokes yeah no not some dick jokes they weren't allowed to play the late show no no the late show gets a little blue fellas he talks about a woman's bra at one point we can't have you around that he says panty so the only girls they've ever talked to are

80 and they're in the audience they have no idea here um here is uh jacob and james talking about their musical upbringing in an interview here yeah they say what was it like growing up and playing music around the house with your family then being in a band? James says, it's been really formative for us. We had four brothers working together

and singing together and before long we figured out that people like to hear our bluegrass and our old time sound. They do sound very old timey. Our family is no different

than any other. You're always going to have hard times and differences and conflicts. But music was something that always kept us together. We always had that in common. And Jacob, he says, our dad was always the big inspiration behind us getting into this old time acoustic music. Yeah, dad wants to do this and the kids have to.

That's what this says. We'd have great music nights where dad would play rhythm guitar and sometimes we'd pull out pots and pans and keep the rhythm they said how did you start playing your instruments james says when i was about five years old for christmas uh for my christmas present my dad made me a bucket base with a 65 gallon bucket sick a broomstick and a weed eater string a 65 gallon bucket that's a that's a giant barrel that's a business say that's a i'm trying to picture that that's like 65 gallons of plastic burn barrel basically yeah remember in the wire when they were importing yeah the shit there in the second season that's what they would come in those big plastic barrels what was the string he had a weed eater string like a weed whacker yeah that's a string with a broomstick it's just one

string yep he basically that's his christmas present as i made i made you a broomstick fucking cartoon hobo base yeah merry christmas i mean jesus would be thrilled but the kid doesn't know any better he hasn't seen tv or commercials he doesn't know what's available you know he doesn't go to toys r us or anything at the time so he said uh burn barrel with the grass on yeah here you go we can't weed eat now though our weeds are out of control but you have a base i guess here we go eaters broken spoiled little bastard he said i started playing with the band for about two years before i graduated to the big You have a base, I guess. Here you go. Our weed eater's broken now. Spoiled little bastard. He said, I started playing with the band for about two years before I graduated to the big upright bass.

The bucket bass is where I learned my rhythm and timing. Jacob said, I started playing the fiddle when I was seven. Wow. I've probably had four fiddle teachers for short periods of time and spent a lot of time on my own practicing and figuring things out myself. I started out playing a lot of fiddle contests, at least seven a year, and that was a big inspiration for me. I'd have something to work for and learn new songs for. In 2012, I won the Ohio State Grand Champion Fiddle Contest for old-time fiddling at the Parade of the Hills festival in Nelsonville, Ohio.

Awesome. Then I went out to Idaho for the national competition and I got 12th in my age category. So kids can play. Yeah. He can play. They said, describe your concerts for someone who's never seen the Stockdale band.

Well, gather up your oldest people. First of all, call your grandma,, first of all. Call your grandma. Call your great-grandma. James said, we play a mixture of old-time bluegrass and gospel in our shows. We throw in a lot of stories from the farm and a touch of comedy. Jake will throw in some trick fiddling.

Jacob will do some. I don't know what trick fiddling is. I don't know how you trick fiddle. All fiddling is fiddling. You pull a will do so i don't know what trick fiddling is i don't know how you trick fiddle all fiddling rabbit out your fiddle yeah you put your fiddle down pick something else up and it still sounds like a fiddle otherwise i don't know or your fiddle now sounds like a washtub i don't know what we're talking about how do you make a trick fiddle pull a lady out of your fiddle oh yeah there it is she walks off there she is everyone disappear in my fiddle she waves one of the fun songs we do is called 40 acres and a fool it's about a farmer whose neighbor

moved in from the city and doesn't know much about farming we do a comedy bit back and forth called arkansas traveler you know that one that's the where the guy, one guy puts his dick in the water, and he says it's not as deep as a thought, and the guy from Arkansas puts it all the way in, and he's like, oh, there it is. I hit the bottom. You know that old joke. The Arkansas Traveler sounds like a

sex move, doesn't it? I don't like 40 acres and a pool. That's fucked up. I think Spike Lee might have something to say I don't like 40 Acres and a Fool. And a Fool, yeah, that's definitely... That's fucked up. I think Spike Lee might have something to say about that. He's like, hold on a second here. My production company's name is...

Hey, fuck you. I like how you guys... But it's not anything about that, though. That's the thing. They just... They're like, that's catchy. We just want to confuse y'all. Yeah.

They're waiting for the civil war to break out when the song when the sketch starts and it never happens it's just about some guy we like to really make light of of reparations for slavery it's funny to us but then it's about nothing about nothing about it no it's just it's so funny it's about nothing about that. Nothing about it. No, it's just so funny. It's just about city folk coming to the country. You know how it is, y'all. It's hilarious. So that's their comedy bit they do back and forth. Yeah, I don't think he realizes why it's funny. I don't think so either.

The Arkansas Traveler is between an old farmer who's out in his field and an out-of-towner who's lost and coming up for directions. Yep. This stuff sounds... Man, I do not want to go to the Amish country whatever the fuck theater. I do not want to go there. Four, how did you discover old-time music? Do you listen to other styles too?

They're not allowed to is the answer to that. time music do you listen to other styles too they're not allowed to is the answer to that jacob said our dad listened to good old our good ohio bands like hot mud sometimes mom had old records that she would convert into cassette tapes and we would just burn those things up in the 2000s they're like i got some new cassettes for you kids and they're like oh boy hot mud yes because there's no ipods here because no there's no technology here not allowed um james said we listen to as many different types of music as we can we listen to modern bluegrass americana instrumental jazz pop and country it definitely gives us ideas but they're only allowed the christian versions of that back

they're not allowed secular music. That's the thing. They say, what kind of places does your band play? I don't know. Where do your old people hang out? Should be the answer. I know you've played in Branson, Missouri a few times. There you go.

The capital of old entertainment. James said, we play all over, mostly in Ohio, but we also play in the surrounding states, Indiana, Michigan, Kentucky, Pennsylvania. We play a lot of community concert series, churches, theaters, county fairs. We've had a great time as the house band at the Amish Country Theater in Walnut Creek. They mix us in with the comedy acts they have down there. Jacob and I are also singing as part of the Straight Tie a cappella group at the theater this Christmas. And we're throwing in some fiddle and bass and trick guitar work. It's a fun new experience for us.

So that's the table we've set up for them here. Wow. The kids seem overjoyed by handing in tokens and getting to listen to a little while of gospel bluegrass music on the radio. Well, they tour the Midwest playing everything from a Waffle House to the Golden Corral. Yeah, everything from Waffle House to the Golden Corral. Now, they decide to go on wife swap. Now, you'd say, why would this family why would they that shelters the well number one they get paid for it people always go why would they do this

reality television pays money there's happens to be a lot of money involved when we watch love after lock up and we'll go why are these two still together why is she still talking to him and you go oh because they get four thousand dollars an episode that's why right so you'll talk to some asshole for an extra couple of weeks if it means another eight grand i would you know especially if i just got out of prison or yeah you know whatever so um they decide to go on the show to participate uh the boys were excited about it at first and eventually they decided that this could be interesting. It could be a family adventure. And also, maybe they could spread what they do to other people.

That's what they thought. They could show them the right way. Oh, they thought it was good exposure. Yeah, they can go around. It's exposure for us, not to us. And for the band, too. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. So it's the bluegrass band.

We might sell some CDs out of this. too yeah that's what i mean yeah so it's the bluegrass band we might sell some cds out of this and on top of that we might be able to you know to evangelize our our way of life to whoever we encounter as well this is one of those stand-up shows that uh so people get on the get on the air every fucking 8 to 12 years and people are like oh it's good exposure for you and then nobody it's not yeah it's not now wife swap the whole, if you've never heard of Wife Swap, never seen Wife Swap. It's not as dirty as it sounds. It sounds filthy. And that's why they call it Wife Swap.

Because it's like, oh, man, they're going to fuck each other's wives. That's crazy. Because that's what you think. You hear the name and you're like, oh, man, this is wild. By the third day, they're going to be banging each other. This is weird shit. But it's not like that at all. it couldn't be less dirty right it couldn't be any more wholesome it's just stupid and but you the way you hear it you're like oh what if she gets a hotter dude than

me and then they're just banging all the time well luckily they're gonna set you up with the people you'd hate the most that's how they they do it. That's the whole point. It's far extremes of everything. Conflict. It's conflict. It's absolutely. It's the family who's, they don't, they're on, whatever. They have English versions, too.

They have English and Australian versions. I'm sure they have other countries' versions, but I've seen the English and Australian versions. They have other countries' versions. But I've seen the English and Australian versions. The English ones are the greatest fucking show there is because they get the real cockney fucking people that are like, Oi, the kid's drinking in the streets again. Oi, it's fucking. Like they get those people. And then send a religious person to that man.

No, no, no. No, they get like people who are like, this is my husband, Lord something of so and so and we're you know they live in a fancy he's a lawyer and she wears diamonds and pearls all the time and all yeah he's a barrister and she's from a you know family and they switch those two and it's like wow that's so much different that's like generationally different that's fucking awesome whereas in america tammy in that man's house yeah whereas in america it's like either one of you could go could switch places in the next five years anything could happen yeah whereas in england it's like you know you've been poor for eight generations you've been rich for eight generations let's put you together yeah yeah since the beginning of time since you stole it from the scottish or whatever the fuck i don't know and now america is is sniping their shows where we have

farmer wants a wife and all that shit yeah all that stuff is coming here now we're we're importing their entertainment now we've run out of ideas we've run out a long time ago everything's a sequel and a remake. So anyway, that's the premise of the show is they get these people that are as different as they can possibly get. And they switch the mothers always. It's wife swap. So the mother switch places.

The mother goes to the other house. They get to first date. When they get there, they get to go into the house when no one's home. Yeah. To inspect it, look around, see what their new environment is.

Then they also get a manual that the other mother has left for the running of the family. when no one's home. Yeah. To inspect it, look around, see what their new environment is. Then they also get a manual that the other mother has left for the running of the family. This is how we run shit. This is your job. First week of the show, the new mother in the family, the outside mother, has to do things, abide by this manual. They're supposed to do all the things they normally do, even though they're so alien and different to them personally.

Then at the end of one week, it's rule change time. And then the new wife or the, you know, the new, the swapped mom here gets to, they should call it mom swap really, because it's always kids involved. It's never just a guy. That would be weird if it was just, you're just going and sitting with this guy. What do you want to watch? I don't know. What's on Netflix. It's always to take care of the kids

it's never just otherwise it would just be i don't know my my wife usually gives me a lot of blow jobs yeah tons of tons of blow jobs and then she likes to cook sucking sucking dick just really makes her want to try out new recipes and stuff so that's what i would do blowjobs and sandwiches is all really that happens sandwiches and sometimes she sprinkles in laundry yeah she'll do that stuff uh you know it's crazy so uh get to sucking sometimes she's got so much energy she has to go out and mow the lawn it's weird i don't know It's crazy. So get to sucking. Sometimes she's got so much energy she has to go out and mow the lawn. It's weird.

I don't know. But I did you a favor and put the chicken out to thaw. Yeah. So you can loosen your jaw. So during rule change, you get to see everybody freak out, obviously, because this is the opposite of how they're kids are great with change they're just great with it so look at any substitute teacher yeah they're terrific with it so they go they either rebel or they're mad sometimes they like it though sometimes the kids like and they're like actually i like this it's much better structured or i like it looser like this or whatever the fuck then the best part of the

whole thing is at the end they get the couples back together which is the dumbest part of the show is that they they park like two limos across the parking lot from each other they don't even pull up close and they both get out and look at each other and then they have to

make their way to each other from across this parking lot and you get to see the enthusiasm that the couple either has or doesn't have for each other. Yeah. Because some of them will, like, run to each other and, like, oh, fine, I missed you so much. Thank God. Some of them will, like, walk up, like, looking at their phones and shit, like, hey, what's up, dude? How's it going? And they, like, give a fist bump.

They're like, fuck, I'm so happy to be rid of you. Yeah. You can just tell which relationships are in trouble by the way they greet each other. Then they bring them in a room and have them sit down with the other couple and just have a chat. Hash it out. Hash it out. They get a little table, a card table, and they sit across from each other two and two and they hash it out. And they've let them say like, you shouldn't be doing and and they've let them say like you shouldn't

be doing this they let them say all kinds of crazy shit yes and sometimes a third of the time everybody will get along splendidly and they'll be like listen your family taught us things that i've taken and they'll be like well actually so did you you taught us that blah blah blah and the wife will be like oh that's good i'm glad that that happened everything's fine and they hug at the end and that's that and then sometimes like this episode they sit down like you're a horrible horrible person you're a terrible mother your kids are terrified you're this well your kids are fucking animals and they're gonna end up in prison and they're yelling and then the husband the wives will yell while the husbands sit there stone-faced no i don't care about this.

Then one husband will say one thing like, that's not right. You said here. And the one will go, don't you fucking talk to my wife like that. How dare you talk to my wife like that. Well, you didn't talk to my wife like that. You were in my home. You motherfucker. They have to separate them.

And they're taken out separately. Yeah. That's the type of thing that happened here the other family i love any guy that goes don't talk to my wife like that don't you dare talk to my wife like that meanwhile you're talking and you're talking much worse to her probably yeah so um anyway they're in here uh they say this uh of these this is the um how they pushed it here Kathy says this to bluegrass today about why they did wife swap promotion that's a publication

being a farm homeschooling bluegrass band family we enjoy a lot of common experiences but we have to chalk the wife swap adventures as the grand family bonding experience for the Stockdales for which we will never be the same Oh change their lives.

She said, we relate differently in that we have even more and deeper collective experiences where we overcame obstacles and accomplished a giant task together. No one else will understand the wife swap journey like we do, and that is one of the things that we will make our family unit different and special forever. Yeah, this was like, for for them it was an endurance thing. And the wives to both moms in this case they were as shitty as they could be when they did the rule changes and stuff like. Yeah. Yeah.

So they did like well we'll get into that in a second but here's how they pushed it. This is this is the promotion from ABC. second, but here's how they pushed it. This is the promotion from ABC. This week's edition of ABC's hit reality show, Wife Swap, will feature the Stockdale family of Ohio as one of the subjects of the show's exchange experiment. Kathy Stockdale

is both the matriarch of her brood and the manager of their bluegrass group, because she does all the finances and all that. The Stockdale family band. The band features her husband, Tim, and their four sons. Despite the salacious title, the actual concept of the show is to take two families with different lifestyles and parenting approaches and have the moms change places for a week for two weeks at a time of course the cameras are there to capture the predictable conflict all displayed on screen

for your televisual entertainment yeah wow interestingly abc went looking for a bluegrass family band for this episode really there's a reason for that though because the other family the kid wants to be a rapper so they're like what's the opposite of that bluegrass gospel bluegrass um they found the stockdale family through David Russell, who manages both the BuckeyeBluegrass.com and the BluegrassMusician.com websites. Where else would you find bluegrass people? The guy online, yeah. That's him. Russell says they were contacted about this last year and recommended their friends the Stockdales right away.

Initially, they were not interested in doing the show, but then the parents said sure once they saw how eager the boys were to give it a try. So it is being promoted as a city versus country culture clash with Kathy Stockdale as the overprotective mom as against the more liberal mom who joins the family from town. They're from Illinois, the other family. So Kathy described the experience like we told you before. And so she said, I'm not sure if this is the way we want bluegrass to reach potential new converts, but no one asked me.

This is from the website. So if you're so inclined, look for the Stockdales on WifeSwap. So 2008 WifeSwap swap on the show Tim and Kathy Calvin part do here yeah he's 19 yeah never kissed a girl he says romantically which means you know I kissed my grandma but not like I kissed my mom on the cheek I didn't slip her any tongue or anything. Charles is 16. Jacob is 15. James is 11 through this. Okay.

Now, obviously, the family set up. Close-knit family. They play in the bluegrass band and all that kind of shit, living in the middle of nowhere. 19. 19. He's still there. He's never been on a date. He's never done any. And not that we're saying that the opposite sex or same sex or whatever you're into is the end all be all to shit.

But he's not allowed to even be interested in it. That's crazy. Which at 19, your dick is so hard. Oh, boy. That you are. He's been jerking off in your shower for five years. He's very interested in something. Oh, boy.

Some other human being. So the family motto, and they sing this in their songs and when kathy comes home at the end of the wife swap she says it right away it might be a hard life but it's a good life a whole song about all that and all that kind of shit here i should get family tattoos they they should i think that goes against everything though yeah um like i said they're very devoutly christian kathy stays at home homeschools the kids manages the band so she has control over every aspect of the kids lives um yeah they they have they sell a lot of cds and all that kind of shit they are pretty popular in

the bluegrass circuit that's the thing people like this they're like hansen of bluegrass this is a big get for the bluegrass community a big get yeah um so tons of chores to be done around the house yeah the boys like we said in the token program they would they would receive an extra token if they did their chore with a quote glad heart i don't like those words glad heart remember i Remember I said a smile? Yeah. That's weird. They could listen to the, wow. No processed foods are allowed in the house as well. Nothing.

Only organic and shit they've grown and grains and shit like that. No ice cream. No, no, no. They're not allowed to have any sweets. What? Candy prohibited. Nothing like that. No. Huh. All organic, plain. Yeah. Nothing. candy candy for him prohibited nothing like that no all organic plain yeah nothing i hate that

fucking word such a buzzword it is i mean for them that's i get it um they were pretty much farm to table here which is another stupid buzzword um boys boys were active in raising of the animals as well as the butchering of the animals. I don't like that at all. That's weird. See, this is how you pop an arm off. Oh, God. On a farm, though, that's normal and it seems to be fine.

But if you take that to the suburbs, that kid is going to dismember people. For sure. Now he just knows how. That's all. Hang a cow and slit its throat? Jesus Christ. But on the farm, it's okay. That's just normal. It's different. Well, you have to, I guess. That he just knows how. That's all. Hang a cow and slit its throat? Jesus Christ. But on the farm, it's okay. That's just normal.

It's different. Well, you have to, I guess. That's how it is. So there's no dating, like I said. There's no music. There's no candy. There's no TV. There's no video games.

There's no... Oh, boy. There's practice in bluegrass, reading the Bible, and doing your homeschool. And there's farming. And farming. And lots and lots of chores here. And the 19-year-old is not allowed to hang out with a girl. He can't go anywhere and talk to a girl.

He's not allowed to. If he went to Dairy Queen and stopped for a cone and a girl started talking to him, he has to walk away. He's not allowed to talk to her because she could get pregnant. Slap that fucking cone out of your hand too she can get pregnant yeah holy shit so they said that dating was to be delayed until they were actually ready to get married and settle down with a girl but how do you know you do that yeah and then once you find the girl how do you talk to her and know anything about her she has to be just as naive as you right or else she's not gonna she's gonna think you're weird it's just the way it is so yeah they said that it's normal but to think about girls but this was sinful in this house

it's considered sinful um they talked to 16 year old charles about dating at one point and they were telling him on the on the show you see that, you know, it's not a good idea to date until you get married. Once you marry a girl, then you can take her out once or twice. Then you can start dating. Then you can start dating. If things go well, maybe you can slip a kiss in after a few months, but let's take it slow. Marriage first, and then we'll go from there. From there.

So we'll get into the manual, but quickly here that Kathy gets up at 7, cooks breakfast for the family. Dad would get up and work on the farm at 5.30, so Kathy prepared breakfast for him the evening before so he could eat before he goes out. Breakfast is made. They wake the boys up around 7.30. They have four minutes from the time they're woken up to get downstairs and eat breakfast. Four minutes. Four minutes. There's a timer. So when it passes, if you don't come down, you give them two more minutes to arrive.

Then after that, she starts charging them 25 cents for being late. And it increases every two minutes until they come to the table. So if one of the kids wakes up and has to take a shit, it's going to cost him. You better jam that bacon down your throat before. Yeah, if he wakes up, he's like, oh man, I need a couple of minutes. No, no, no, no, not like that. There's five of us.

Right when you wake up, you have to pee. Yeah, tough. Each piss takes 30 seconds to a minute. Tough shit. Oh my God. Stand around together like a bluegrass band and all piss in the same bowl and you can harmonize while you do it well we're pissing in the same bowl and it's splashing on my knees i felt my water come up from my brother's fucking pee that's right i said

i don't know gross uh they would all have pee on each other. Each other's pee. It'd be disgusting. And then after that, homeschooling begins at 10 a.m. She rings a bell outside to let them know it's time for school. They homeschool for an hour. Then they do their outside chores, which is letting the chickens out, feeding them, picking up their eggs, mowing the fields. They serve lunch at 1. No snacking is allowed between meals at all no snacks no so they're always hungry i would assume at lunch they practice together after lunch they

get together and do band practice okay so far i've had one hour of school in here by the way so far i am fucking exhausted not enough school go back to bed no sure well it's not over yet jimmy because at four o'clock now i'm exhausted but at four o'clock you better get your have your wits about you because it's debate time it's debate lessons and then the school then school's over so they have debate lessons in one hour of homeschooling that's their education and the rest of it is taken up with bluegrass and work. That's it. Then it's time for their evening chores because, you know, I got to do that.

That includes processing the chicken and any other farm duties. And in the evenings, they either have a concert to play at, which they have a lot of gigs, or they if they don't, they'll just hang out and practice their music and then go to bed. Okay. That is a lot. There's no time to do shit else. It's a busy day. Yeah. Yeah. Now, the other family, because you pick, like we said, the most opposite families, the other family couldn't be more different.

Couldn't be more the Tonkovich family. And they're allowed, their kids do whatever they want. Yeah. And the kids are like 19 and 17 too that they have you can't control those no they're 19 and 17 which is barely even wife swap it's like well that one's an adult one shouldn't be busy and the other one should be uh lease shopping right now busy yeah something just busy so they are allowed to do anything they want she has a girl and a boy her 19 year old's the boy and the 17 year old's the girl and they both have their boyfriend girlfriends living with them in the house awesome they have a 17 year old girl who has her boyfriend living there sleeping in the same bed with her and the same thing for the 19 year old get it get get a mom who thinks that's uh that's wild they're allowed

to smoke in the house they have parties in the backyard that we'll talk about that everybody participates in they don't eat anything but like fast food and frozen pizza and shit on their own schedule whenever yeah mom's like i got this and she just comes in and throws a bag of burgers on the table and they all ravage them that's how it works apart you jackals yep eat eaters you jackals so it is it's john fabbro so um yeah that's how they do their business uh dad works like the second shift or something night shift or some shit middle of the day dad looks like he's got like a traumatic brain injury or something the way he acts like he's real like real like uh flighty and like yeah anytime there's any flustering he's like i gotta go have a cigarette i don't know i'm gonna go

have a cigarette i don't know he just goes and has a cigarette he's not real he doesn't really get his thoughts gather them and then give them to you in a succinct manner they're really scattered he's looking around all the time and mom's like a nurse or something. She puts on scrubs and leaves and works three days a week. And then everybody else is just erratic in the house. The kids, none of them have jobs. Four people that are like between 17 and 19, none of them have jobs. They all hang out.

Just banging in your bedroom. Just fucking in the house, in an empty house all day. While the erratic dad just chain smoking sucking and fucking and chain smoking and you know they're smoking weed in there i mean it's oh yeah totally because oh my god here we go i don't even know how to say all this because it's the funniest shit in the world um the son wants to be as he puts it, and the son Paul is a blonde kid named Paul. He wants to be a hardcore rapper, as he says. That's his goal.

Hardcore. He's got his live-in girlfriend that he's banging, sleeping with him. He goes by his rap name is T-Vic, which is Tonkovich, which is his last name. T-Vic. T-Vic. Do you have that new Tevick album? That sounds stupid. Oh, Tevick's hot shit.

Now, lyrics are, lyrically, he's something else. Lyrics are as follows. We've got his music. I got lyrics. Well, because they show clips of them, and one of the clips is him, they're at the backyard party, and mom and dad are dancing.

Oh, he's just spitting? He's rapping for the party here dancing. Oh, he's just spitting. He's rapping for the party here. Okay. And he's terrible. He says. He's the entertainment for the party. He says, and I quote. Yeah.

Roses are red. Oh, no. What? Baby, violets are blue. Yeah, they are. Come on and be my Cinderella and i'll bring you a shoe that's a lyric he said the fuck is he doing except in the most horrible fucking suburban way possible that he said yeah um another lyric that he this is something he

was recording he was sitting before like a 2007, 2008 computer sound booth. Yeah. Big one. No, no. Just the computer with a fucking mic in front of it. And he said, what you know about it, homie, nothing. You get cooked like a muffin in the oven. He was, he was recording that to make sure it didn't go away.

Cause when you come up with, so he'd made sure that that to make sure it didn't go away because when you come up with so he'd made sure that he wouldn't forget it when you come up with fire like that you don't want to later on go what was that lyric fuck i always forget it you don't want to do that so you got to record it forever get baked like who would get baked that that doesn't even make any sense i wish i could remember what i what was it something about cooking some fucking maybe it has to do with damn it meatloaf i'm not sure betty crock what did i say shit duncan hines is in this shit i don't something fuck me get yourself a recipe get the best of me god damn i can't remember damn it you know what hold on let me get my girlfriend in here to

give me a blow job close the door he even says in seven yeah he's nothing what you know about it homie nothing nothing you get cooked like a muffin in the oven that's how he said it i feel like he's trying to be eminem like that's the he's trying to do that second rhyme thing yeah that rhyme structure is what he's trying to do but it's that guy's been doing it for 12 years already famously you don't you don't get to just in the oven. It's a muffin just sounds it's just a rapper saying muffin doesn't sound tough. It's muffin the least tough word we have in the English language. What's less tough than muffin? The punchline of the of the rhyme has to sound tough yeah it can't be cooked like a

muffin the scariest person in the world could come up to you and you're like oh shit and they'd be like you want a muffin and you'd be like oh he's a nice guy he's got muffins There's no way to be scary if you're talking about muffins. It's just not a thing. You get cooked like a muffin in the oven. Every time it's so funny. I tried to take a sip of water. Almost. I almost. Oh, no.

I choked. Why is he so? Oh, God, Jesus. he thought that was great water came out of my nose but it shouldn't shoot out of my eyeball too which is what happened i somehow forced it up through my eyeball as well it's all connected in there oh he thought he thought if i get this on network TV, I'm going to be a monster. I got cooked like a muffin in the oven on that one. Yeah, so that. He's like, this is two different families. Like, we can get our music out there. Oh, this is so good.

The only winner is Wife Swap. It's amazing. I highly recommend the episode. It's on Hulu. Oh, I can't wait. I'm watching it. It's season four, episode 15, Stockdale. Oh, tonight's going to be great.

Watch it here. Everybody out there. In seventh grade, he was voted most likely to be a rapper. I didn't know that was a category. Was that a category in seventh grade? Most likely to be a rapper? I don't think there was any most likely anything. No.

The only thing most likely in seventh grade was you'll be in eighth grade next year. Yeah. Most likely to get their period in the next week. This girl. Yeah. Most likely to do this grade again or most likely to be in eighth grade. That's all you were. That's it.

That's all there is. So the family manuals are the first thing in wife swap swap here teaching you how to cook a muffin in the oven um homie nothing you get cooked like a muffin in the oven i can't say it without laughing like a turkey with the stuffing like a turkey with the stuffing in the muffin in the oven uh like some witches in a coven what's up so um here it is they sit down with the family manual and this is how the new mom gets to introduce to the family and we have never had, I wish every small town murder, anyone, someone involved would write everything about their family that I could know about. A whole expose.

This is great. That's it. So here it is, family manual. Welcome to our home. Here we are. Stockdale's. We're not just a family band, or we're not just a family, we're a band. The Stockdale's. We're not just a family band. We're not just a family. We're a band. The Stockdale Family Band.

We play bluegrass and barn dances and shindigs all over our area. Shindigs. Shindigs. We have Calvin on banjo, Charles on mandolin, Jacob on fiddle, and James on upright bass. Tim, my husband, is on guitar, and I'm the manager. A family that plays together, stays together, and there's nothing so wholesome as playing old time bluegrass with your favorite people your family yep she did use a semicolon correctly there which i'm pretty excited about that's good stuff for you kathy um we moved to the country to get the

boys away from the city our children are being raised away from violent language sexual influences drinking smoking rap music all the things we left behind in the city. Instead, we're raising our children on a diet of wholesome activities and farm work, keeping their minds pure and their bodies healthy and keeping out the influences of modern society. That is why we homeschool. Children need structure, and there's plenty of structure in this house. Our boys know what they're supposed to be doing from sunup to sundown. They're busy doing chores, running the farm, doing schoolwork, and of course, practicing for performances. Everything they need is here on the farm with their family. That's disturbing. Everything they need is here on the farm with their family. You cannot possibly provide a well-rounded enough experience to produce a normal adult in that environment.

Yeah. And if they get hurt and the hospital's gauze is not here. No. I mean, you go there, but yeah. Yeah. It's still, I think if you have five kids, you might get one or two that are just quick to figure shit out. Once they get out there, they can kind of stumble a couple times and figure it out. But then you're going to get some one or two that are completely fucking lost in the world.

They're not going to be able to navigate anything. They're a Will Ferrell and elf. Everything is so weird here. Everything is so weird here. We teach our boys to succeed, that to succeed, you have to have a good work ethic. We raise chickens, process chickens, and what we don't eat, we sell. We all pitch in, and I can gut a chicken in under four minutes. Good God.

That's quite the statistic. I don't think we've ever had on Small Town Burger, this is episode 461, I don't think we've ever had a chicken gutting statistic before on here. Yeah, the back of her chicken gutting baseball card is crazy. It's like four minutes, damn. That's fast. It's like the four minute mile, you know, it's tough. Four minutes?

Four minutes. Does that include de-feathering? I have no idea. Right? I would assume the gutting would be the quicker part than the feathering. Yeah, that's just whack ahead, slice and grab and pull, right? Yeah, I think you could do that over and over. The boys receive tokens for every chore they do and an extra token if they do it with a glad heart.

Now, if you're coming in from the outside, you're like, what the fuck is a glad heart? Yeah, what is that? How do I decide whether or something's a glad heart? Where do you guys keep the glad hearts around here yeah they trade their tokens for privileges like listening to the radio or for a stick of gum okay now i would like to imagine all of us collectively right now as a whole uh listenership jimmy myself all of us are sitting at the at the kitchen table with this manual in front of us and we're gonna live in this house for the next two weeks first week under these rules so just let's all put ourselves there

okay um wow processed and fast foods are forbidden food is nourishment for the mind as well as the body so it's important to eat right we mostly only eat foods that we grow or we buy from local farmers that we know uh that way we know it's healthy and natural i give my boys a large spoonful of cod liver oil after dinner to keep their hearts and minds strong. Okay. I know you know she just feeds it to them, too, like an old. Yeah. TV and video games are banned.

They produce redundant minds and lazy children. I want my boys to be active, productive, and busy every waking moment. Internet access is restricted. There's no idle surfing in this house instead we enjoy spending time reading to each other playing music or storytelling storytelling you know it's on the internet they don't have any fucking stories they're gonna say they've never left the house they'd barely leave the house what fucking stories they have the only story they got is how they fucking cured an abscess on the horse. That was tough, boy. Yikes.

All hands on deck for that one. Dr. Pepper Bottle lit it. Got it hot. The boys are not encouraged to date until they are ready to get married. They need to concentrate on building the right foundations for a healthy and moral life not and this is all capital letters not thinking about girls okay but that's you you're going against nature you really are that's like saying this dog needs to walk and not sniff the other dog's poop like it's gonna sniff its poop that's what it does. It sniffs things. I mean, she does that daily with the chickens aren't meant to stay in a fucking coop.

Horses aren't meant to be in a corral. But she's doing it. She's corralling everything. She's corralling everything. She is the head corraler here. There is plenty of time to worry about that when they have found their bride-to-be and are ready to settle down. Can't. How do you do that?

Can't do it. You can't pick a girl out and go, that one. And then she's now my bride-to-be and are ready to settle down can't how do you do that can't do it you just you can't pick a girl out and go that one and then she's now my bride-to-be i guess we'll start dating that's not how it fucking works and and she's gonna have the same sexual interest yeah me forever it's not gonna happen especially mom and dad met in college right with lots of other people around how many people freedom yeah how many people did they talk to yeah and get to know before they found one that they really clicked with you know it's not the first one you talk to that's gonna happen and that's what they basically have to do

find a woman scope her out and decide that yeah you know predict that you guys are going to be compatible like that's they met each other in the late 70s, early 80s in fucking Ohio State. Yeah. You know what I mean? The amount of fun that they were having. Holy shit. Yeah. She says, our motto is, it might be a hard life, but it's a good life.

We are the Stockdale family. Kathy, 44. Tim, 48. Calvin, 19. Charles, 16. Jacob, 15. James, 11. Now, the household under that category, how do you divide the roles? We live in very traditional roles in this household.

I stay at home and take care of the cooking, cleaning, teaching our boys and managing the family band. Tim, my husband, runs the farm with the boys and has a regular full-time job delivering animal nutrients to farms across the state. I am completely involved in my children's lives. I stay at home so that I can shape the way they grow up and how they are influenced. It's important for children to have boundaries. They will have to live in a world that has rules, and if they don't learn to comply, now they're going to have an even harder time later in life. Okay. Nothing is free for the boys. Everything has to be earned. I teach the boys value and respect by using the token system. The boys collect tokens

by doing chores with a glad heart to exchange for things they want. They can learn to value their privileges and don't just come to expect them. There's questions that you have to answer. What are the general views on cleaning? I have a rule, Kathy says, that if you make the mess, then you clean it up. And as the boys make most of the mess, they do the cleaning. Our family motto is it may be a hard life, but it's a good life. Do you have a cleaning person or hired help? If so, why? If not, why? She says chores are a part of daily life here and a great lesson for the boys to learn from. Hiring someone to clean the house would simply take away that benefit from the boys. Besides, no one said life was easy. Who does the following and how often? Vacuuming and dusting. She says I split the cleaning up

and assign rooms to Charles, Jacob and James to vacuum and dust. Making the boys do the work is not only practical, but a good exercise for them in learning responsibility. Cleaning the bathroom. James is the youngest in the family, so he cannot do all the same chores as the other boys. Cleaning the bathroom is something he can achieve and gives him a lesson in responsibility.

Okay. Clean your brother's shit. Clothes washing and ironing. I do the washing in the house at least twice a week. We're not into big brand names here. What's practical is what is best. It's Charles' task to hang the washing up and fold it when it's dry. All the chores in the house need doing,

so if one of the boys doesn't like a task, then I find something he does like. No one in the family gets a free ride. The boys have to learn that the only way to succeed is by working. Cleaning the kitchen. In this house, no one stands around while watching everyone else do work. She keeps saying the same thing with that. We're working. We get it.

You're all industrious. I teach the boys if you receive, then you must give as well. Charles cleans up the dishes after the meals, and James cleans up the table and helps put the food away. It says, other, we do not look at chores as free slave labor. We are giving our children a good work ethic and selfless attitude. It keeps us grounded and bonds us together. Sounds like she's trying to convince herself of it or something. Yes, she's not.

Right. Like, so if you have to say the same thing over and over, it's like, are you sure about this? Why do you keep saying it to you? We like to teach our boys to work with their hands. This means chores, yard work, and cleaning. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. But when it's every waking second, that's a different story.

It's weird. Then you're not a kid. How many pets do you have and what do they require? We run this farm to provide our family with a sustainable and wholesome life. That means raising our crops and chickens in a free-range organic environment, free of steroids and antibiotics. The food that we grow is more natural and tastes better for it. They said, how many pets do you have?

This is our answer. We've got a lot of animals. Yeah, they're telling you how they do their chickens. We slaughter animals. Yeah. We have 70 hens, which gives us all our eggs, 175 broiler chickens, which we process, sell, and also use to eat, and one duck that thinks he is a chicken. Jacob looks after the chickens every day. So the answer is one duck.

That's the only pet we have. That's what we have. We're not going to eat him. He feeds them in the morning and puts them in their coop in the evening. That's Jacob, 15. But those aren't pets. No. His job is to look after the chickens, which is a gross and hard job.

Yeah, it smells. Cooking and meals. Who cooks for the family? Food nourishes the mind and body, so it's very important in this family. That's why I insist on giving the boys a spoonful of cod liver oil every dinner time. It helps keep their heart, bones

and brain healthy. I spend most of my day cooking three nutritious old-fashioned home-cooked meals for my family, and it's certainly appreciated. I bring value to home-cooked meals by my family, and it's certainly appreciated. I bring value to home-cooked meals by using quality ingredients that either we raise naturally on our farm or that we buy from other local farmers. I treat food with respect by using traditional food preparation rather than modern methods like microwaves and pasteurizing. It takes me longer

to cook, but the proof is in the pudding. My food tastes better and it's healthier for you, and my boys are testament to that. I make sure my boys drink healthily, too, with my water and dairy kefir. Kefir? K-E-F-I-R. It's a yeast, fruit, and water infusion that the boys just love to drink. Kefir?

She introduces this to that family during the rule change. The other family, she's like, you're not going to drink soda anymore. You're going to drink this. And she takes out a huge glass jar of it, like one of the big gallons of it. She goes, you're going to drink this. And the one girl goes, we have to drink mayonnaise? It looks just like mayonnaise. She goes, we have to drink mayonnaise?

She looks like she's going to cry. It's the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen. Oh, it's great. They just love it. It looks like a giant load of elephant jizz is what she got. Here's all of it. There we go. Two gallons it released.

Wow. We don't eat processed food or anything prepackaged. It just doesn't have any place in a wholesome, nurturing environment. I call that rubbish Frankenfoods. Frankenstein foods. It's science experiments gone wrong. I insist on only eating food that is raised in its natural habitat like our chickens. Does anyone else ever cook who

and why kathy says i like things done my way the right way oh that could have been the whole manual she could have skipped everything and just said i like things done my way period done i have started to cheat to teach jacob and charles how to cook some recipes like sausages and bread but i have to be around to watch over them to make sure they do it right. You see what I mean? They can't even trial and error. She can't trust anybody doing it? Yeah.

Can't even fuck it up and fix it next time and figure out what's good. Nope. I'll make you do it perfectly all the time. Do you all eat together and where do you eat? The whole family eats together every meal unless Calvin is at college, Calvin, the other one, or Tim is out at. Calvin, the other one. Or Tim is out at work and can't get back. It's important family bonding time where we can get to talk with one another.

Eating food in our house is a special event and it's time to be savored so we never rush a meal. Food forms the basis of who we are. So basically they're like bluegrass Italians at this point. We take our time and we really eat a lot of food. It's all right. Our food means a lot to us. It means a lot to us. And it's to be savored.

Meals aren't to be rushed because that's how it is there. Meals are not an obstacle. Meals are an event to be shared. Yeah, that's kind of how it goes. Slow food is better than fast food. Okay, what are your top dinners? Please include recipes. This will be fun.

Sunday menu. Dinner link sausage on bread with sauerkraut and mustard and pickled beets. That's breakfast? That's Sunday menu. Yeah. What was the dinner? I guess. What was the dinner? I guess.

Milk and water, kefir, cod liver oil, and butter oil. Whole food supplements. Catalin every one each. Catalin? C-A-T-A-L-Y-N? Yeah. One each. That's a pill?

Digestive enzyme supplement. Mm-hmm. Yeah, these are... Oh, my God. Mom, Dad, Calvin, and James one each apparently jacob and charles are fine no they're in the middle james is the youngest and calvin's the oldest oh so the middle the middle kids are fine apparently they don't need their enzymes are yeah they're digesting faster than they can fucking eat that's just all digesting. They think about food. It's digested.

That's how it works. Monday menu. Oh, boy. Breakfast. Giblets. Or giblets. Yep. Giblets.

Chicken hearts and gizzards. Giblets. Gross. Muesli. What the fuck is that? Muesli with cream. M-U-E-S-L-I. Like mueslix, like that shit.

It's an enzyme. It's a powder. It's a disgusting wheat slurry, it sounds like. Yep. With cream, sorghum or honey. Sorghum? Yeah. Raisins or dates, dairy kefir or water kefir with flaxseed, whole food supplements, calcium lactate.

She's giving them smoothies for breakfast. That's pretty much it. James times six, whole food supplements, Catalan, everyone one each digestive enzyme supplements. Mom, dad, Calvin, and James one each. Okay. We're just taking pills and drinking a slurry that's it well not quite that's breakfast though and the giblets are a different thing then lunch fried liver on bread and butter gross oh and mustard blueberry shakes what the

fuck are you putting together mustard and blueberry I can't think of two things that go together worse than mustard and blueberry. That is fucking disgusting. And is it beef liver? Fried liver. I don't know. It could be anything. It could be chicken livers. God damn it.

Blueberry. Oh, mustard blueberry shakes. That's disgusting. That's even worse. Supper, sardines on hot buttered toast with mustard, sauerkraut, tomato soup, and pickled eggs. That's dinner? I would like everyone out there who has a kid close to 11 years old and tell them, when they say, what's for dinner tonight? to 11 years old and tell them when they say,

what's for dinner tonight? Tell them sardines on hot buttered toast with mustard, sauerkraut, tomato soup and pickled eggs and see what the fuck they say. That kid will run away and you'll never see him again. Sardine sandwich. I could not get

my son sardine with I couldn't get my son to eat that for all the money all the bribery all anything in the world is that just an S meal soup sourcrow sardines hot butter toast

fucking it all up then the same milk and water kefir and the supplements that is disturbing wow she doesn't give Wednesday through whatever and the supplements. Yeah. That is disturbing. Wow. She doesn't give Wednesday through whatever, so it's just three days of the week here.

I don't know how that works here. Oh, she knows they're going to go home by then. Yeah, she'll be running away in horror by then. Even when we're on the road, we take our own food with us. Wow. Even on the road. Apples, cold chicken, crackers, and cheese. We can usually survive on this until we get back home from a trip. Wow. sir i have a rotisserie chicken in my backpack i just i pick at it after every set i get one bite if it's a good set i get a bite has to last me the whole weekend thursday through sunday i'm down to the thighs god damn it how often do you or your family eat junk food fast food what

kind do you eat she says processed pre-packaged food is a gross resemblance of the real thing. It's not real food for real people. We never eat fast food. In fact, anytime James has eaten it, he has thrown up. James sounds like he's got a lot of problems. Yeah, it sounds like James is more than dairy, I think, James. He might be allergic to a lot of things. Yeah, I think there's a whole bunch of stuff.

I think you guys, your genetics ran out by the time you got to James, possibly. I'm not sure. No, I'm just kidding. That's not true at all. Actually, James, they all say in the band, he's one of the more talented members of it. He's kind of the catalyst of everything. Yeah. And James on the show, he seems like a cool kid.

He really does. Stuff that she brings up, at one point they're sitting there and the other mother says what would you do if you didn't have to do all these chores and he's like i'd have a lot of free time and he's just got a big smile the lady's like but what would you do and he goes man he thinks about he just goes i mean i just i i'd get run around with my brothers you know like that's it and goes back to coloring and i'm like what a cool fucking kid and this lady went out there i think yeah this lady went outside and cried because he couldn't think of anything else to do but he's such a like just a nice kid that's what he wants to do and that's

he has nose of nothing else so i like james he's a nice kid um so they say that uh james is that eating he's throwed up we try to eliminate all processed food because it is unnatural and unhealthy for you. Shopping. Who does the grocery shopping? Living on a farm means we grow most of our own food so we don't use the store too often. When we do, we try and shop locally. Well, no, we'd like to drive three hours to pick up some fucking flaxseed. That way we are putting dollars back into the community.

We buy what we can't grow ourselves, which is bananas, rice, canned meats and fish, salmon and herring, and a few spices. Okay. Canned salmon. How often? During the summer, I go to the store once a month, but always combine it with a trip for the boys, like taking Jacob to his fiddle class.

That way we can save on fuel bills. Does anyone help with the grocery shopping? I buy all the supplies myself. Sometimes the boys come with me, but I usually save on fuel bills. Does anyone help with the grocery shopping? I buy all the supplies myself. Sometimes the boys come with me, but I usually go on my own. Who chooses what is bought? I think we know the answer to this. I'm the cook for this family, so I choose what is bought.

Oh, boy. Okay. By the way, there's a fucking gross murders coming up here. Just to let you know, this isn't everything. So are you morning people? If the boys are playing music in the evening, it's hard to stop them, so we end up going to bed a little later around 11 p.m. If we go to bed late, then we always sleep in maybe until 8 the next morning. What's the morning routine?

I have breakfast with the boys at 8. Feeding the boys a good, hot, hearty meal in the morning means they can last until lunchtime without snacking. How many fucking times are you going to say that? What the fuck? She covered that on a cut and paste. If the boys don't finish a meal, then they can't eat anything until the next meal. So they always finish what's on their plate.

Okay. After breakfast, Charles and James clean up the breakfast dishes while Jacob goes out to feed the chickens and put anything and put any things that need recycling into the special bin. So they get to clean up dishes while one kid has to go out and slop chickens and fucking do like farm labor. Jesus, Jacob, poor guy. Who prepares breakfast? Does the family eat together? She

prepares breakfast. What time do the kids leave for school? I homeschool James, Jacob, and Charles, which starts first thing after breakfast. I have a rule that they are not allowed to do anything else until their schoolwork is done, unless it is music, which is part of their education. We're putting...

Okay. We're bringing bluegrass into this. Yeah. Homeschooling the boys means they're not affected by outside influences and are able to grow up in a safe and wholesome environment. Do you ever get to sleep in? We do not live by the clock. We live according to farm seasons and seasons of family life.

Our schedule responds to the family's needs. Sometimes we stay up late at night. We just told you that. What's your schedule for the rest of the day? I run this house with structure and schedules. The boys all have chores and tasks to accomplish after breakfast, and I make sure that they do them. James scrubs the bathroom, Charles folds and hangs up laundry, and all three of them have to make their bed.

I check up on each chore to make sure it's done correctly. My boys are so well-trained that they usually do them to standard, but I have detailed reminders of what is expected in each room in case they forgot. Jesus. While the boys are doing their morning chores, I put together their daily schedule sheets, listing everything I want them to accomplish. Charles, math, science, mandolin, and guitar practice,

gather trash at house, and take all trash cans to the road for pickup, weed whip, mowing garden, weeding, and re-totaling. What the hell is that? Oh, rototilling. Rototilling. I'm like, re-totaling. What the hell is that? Oh, rototilling. Rototilling. I'm like, re-totaling? What the fuck are you talking about?

Jacob, math class, math, science, history, memorization, drafting fiddle, chick brooder at four times a day. Oh, chickens. Okay. Including before breakfast and the end of the day. Clean nest boxes, clean house clutter, garden weeding, and rototilling. Charles is also responsible for weed whipping, which is the less common weed whacking. Whacking is a little too spicy of a term. But then again, whipping can be spicy too, but she doesn't look at it like that.

Yeah, but if we teach him to whack, he's just going to be out there in the shed all day. He's going to be whacking and whacking and whacking. James waters the front garden and then sweeps the porch. There's always maintenance works and farm tasks to be done around here, so the boys help along with Tim when he's home. If the boys do a chore or task, I reward them with the token. It's important to reward good behavior. That way they learn not only the benefit through positive reinforcement.

The boys can trade in tokens for privileges later in the day. Start lunch around noon. I like to serve around 1. A healthy body and nutritious mind is what we strive for. Blah, blah, blah. So, yeah, if it is a chicken processing day, then we usually start around 3 p.m. and spend the rest of the afternoon processing the chickens for sale. It can be slightly messy, eviscerating a chicken, but that's part of farm life. Eviscerating.

Teaching the boys to communicate and think through an argument, this is why they do debate lessons, is a vital part of their education. It's also a good way for them to meet and learn to socialize with other people. They have to be around them, though. They're teaching them this is how you do it. Debating your brother is how you talk to people, but they're not there to talk to. Right, and your brother thinks and talks a certain way. Other people are going to talk and think other ways. Yeah, you're going to debate the same three people all the time.

If the boys have a performance in the evening, then I like to prepare a light hot meal for them around 5 before getting ready for their performance. I get the boys to load the CDs I sell at the concerts into the car and make sure they have all of their music and equipment loaded. When we're not having a performance, then we would start preparing dinner at 5 p.m. I would always sit down. We always have a sit-down family dinner at 5 p.m. I would always sit down. We always have a sit-down family dinner at 6 p.m. It's so important to take your time over a meal and really enjoy spending time together. So do they have any extra classes or activities after school? Who takes them?

Who picks them up? She says, we do not push the boys to play sports because of the competitive nature of team games. Yeah, that's the idea. The glory-seeking can encourage too much of a self-centered aspect that is not a desirable in clean-living children. That's not a good trait to have. No, but it also can teach you how to work as a team. Yes. Which also is good.

But that also, james makes you rely on other people to do things and when they don't do things because they're unreliable then it's on you to do it and if you play sports you know who hangs around girls girls girls yeah there's that whole line of them with those fucking pom-poms strumpets that's what they are harlots alllots. All those goddamn trollops on the sidelines. That's how it goes. With short skirts. Raising the boys in a wholesome environment means teaching them activities that will be useful to them in the future.

I think it is good for them to learn to be practical with their hands, so Jacob and Charles have woodworking class on Mondays from 6.15 p.m., and all three of the younger boys have scouts on on Mondays from 6.15 p.m. And all three of the younger boys have scouts on a Tuesday evening at 7. Charles has mandolin lessons. Jacob has fiddle lessons. When do the boys do their homework? Do you help them?

They said teaching a child that it is okay to fail is not acceptable in my book. I never pass the boys if they have a C or even a B. They have to achieve an A grade in a subject before moving on. That way they're always looking toward mastering the subject. That's not okay. That is not okay. That is definitely. That is.

A B is not failure. No, I've seen the result of that. Uh-huh. When you're too much with your kid. When you demand excellence. Perfection. Yeah. Perfection. And it is not good later on a lot of times they break the fuck down because they can't take it if they fail nobody can be perfect at everything that's the thing and when they're not yeah yeah and breakfast club anthony michael hall remember that right yeah that's what i'm talking about and if you want a

perfect world in a perfect world you die before your child and if you've demanded excellence his entire time he's relying on you to tell him what's excellent right so uh you're gonna die eventually yeah that's fucking that's what you have to you're gonna leave them to have to they're gonna have to fend for themselves at some point some point right it's what you want so in the evening it says if you work outside the home what time do you get home? My life is centered on the home and boys. I'm the mother, school teacher, cook, and band manager of this family. I get the boys up and schedule their day from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep.

Wow. Jesus, I don't believe in having idle hands or idle boys, so I try to keep them busy and teach them a good work ethic. I provide a safe, wholesome environment for the boys to grow up in, and I monitor and control the inputs into their life so that they receive the right education. I monitor and control the inputs into their life. What a great show. Wow, that is crazy. I do not allow the boys to watch TV at all, and if they want to trade in their tokens to watch a movie or listen to the radio,

then it's from a selection that I have pre-vetted. I don't want them listening to or watching horror movies or inappropriate language. It's just it is important to limit the contact the boys have with the ills of the world. Just because it exists doesn't mean it's good or healthy and especially not for children. Holy shit, man. In 2008, she was talking like this. Just because it exists doesn't mean it's good or healthy and especially not for children. Wow. Holy shit, man. In 2008, she was talking like this. Yeah, this is what I mean.

It's tough. It's easier to control and censor the inputs into the children's lives being out here in the countryside. She came right out and said it. Control and censor. Do they have set bedtimes? I run this family to a tight ship with their schedules, but we are not slaves to the clock. They say that again. James and Jacob usually go to bed at 930.

Charles goes to bed at 10. And Calvin decides when he wants to go to bed because he's a fucking adult. He's 19 fucking years old. Jesus Christ. It's a good thing he doesn't have a bedtime. What's the bedtime routine? They say that if they're not playing music, I will read to the boys from one of the classics. After all, if you read well, you think well.

I don't want my mom reading me to sleep at 19. Get the fuck out of my room while there's masturbating to be done in here. Leave, please. What's the classics? The classics. That's what I mean. I have no idea maybe maybe like classics like classic literary selections like literature or like maybe

she means on the ride no she probably i'm she probably means like huck finn the fucking iliad and homer and all that shit probably you know what i mean yeah um the boys have gone to bed tim and i spend time with each other talking through the day's events and planning the days ahead with so much going on all the time it is important to us to have time with one another so they go to bed sometime after the boys go to bed if we move one of the cars into the driveway we can pick up a local bluegrass radio show, so we usually spend the afternoon on the porch listening to that. With a car in the driveway. With a car, yeah.

Crank it. They got a huge system in there, though. It's wild. So, Sunday evening, same thing. Education. My aim is to give the boys the ability to explore the world in a safe environment. Well, that's the oxymoron. That's not going to happen.

The world is not safe. No. There is no playground bullying or peer pressure here, and I do not allow criticism between the boys. They're not even allowed to break each other's balls. Until debate time. What's the point of having brothers if you can't break their fucking kluons?

What's the point? Why bother? That's the whole point of everything is, hey, look at you, you fucking bum bother that's the whole point of everything is hey look at you you fucking bum and that's the whole point the whole point of monkey dues that's a your stupid opinions reference that you should check out on no one fails my classes they're only allowed to continue on with the subject when they've mastered it so they all get a's it's important the boys how often is she like good good enough, I can't fucking teach this idiot this subject anymore.

I'm so tired of talking about George Washington. This one, not good at math. Let's just say that. It's important the boys are well-read and that they can speak properly. Higher education is not so important, though, as it doesn't always equate to success. We teach the

boys they can be successful through entrepreneurial self-employment by making them earn their own money there is no free on this farm by the way they all the kids go to college really the fuck out of here yeah just about all of them anyway we'll talk about did you or your partner go to college both tim and i went to college and studied agriculture that's where we met each other in agronomy class and started to date before getting married. Although I dated when I was at college, I don't want my boys to date until they're ready to get married. Even though I did it and it worked out fine and here I am happy, I don't want them to have the same choices, though. She has regrets.

Yeah, because somebody was mean to her at some point. That's fucking life. Now you appreciate the person who's nice to you 10 times fucking more. There it is. That's life. Yeah. Charles is already asking questions about it. So I sit down with him and explain that it's not the best thing to do just yet. Teenagers can suffer emotional traumas or even diseases by focusing their lives on dating too early. I remember wasting so much of my time on dating. Now that I look back, it just seems so pointless. Yes, that reflection is how maturing happens. You have to do those things to then reflect on them. She got crabs and she's upset about it. Yeah yeah somebody gave her something and she's not been able to get rid of it since when they have established themselves then they can go out

looking but not until then i will not have them herpified like me i don't want them to have yeah breakouts like this oh god do you homeschool your children i homeschool the boys obviously are the rules about homework we know what those are is it important your children. I homeschool the boys, obviously, are the rules about homework. We know what those are. Is it important your children go to college? The boys don't get anything free from us. The money doesn't grow on trees around here. They have to work for their own money. Even though Calvin has started at college, I don't think that it's always a recipe for success. We believe in entrepreneurship first and foremost. Yeah, but one of them wants to be a doctor you can't just have your own doctor business calvin this calvin too will go on to medical school really you can't do that on the farm he wants to be a fucking doctor like that's their entrepreneurial spirit for sure by like opening

your own practice but you've got to be able to you've got to be gone for that these parents minds aren't open enough to even understand that the kids might have an interest outside of agriculture because that's all they were interested in so they don't get that maybe the kid will be interested in this or that or something bigger or something in the world maybe they who knows so uh asparagus poof yeah leisure and social life life is not about entertainment and fun i do not promote a lot of leisure time for the boys. A lot of emphasis in the teen world is placed on hanging out with friends. We do not hang out. We don't have friends around. and purpose to any activity so that the boys do not become corrupted by meaningless relationships. What do you do as a couple?

We nurture a family environment so we are together all the time as it should be. If we do have time to ourselves, then we spend it lying in the fields looking at the sky or stars or just enjoying one another's company outside on the porch. Yikes. Wow. I am definitely stricter with my boys than my parents were on me but america is a very different country now than when i was growing up you grew up in the fucking 70s when it was way everything was a hundred percent worse what the fuck are you talking about every crime rate half of what it doesn. It wasn't the seventies, every drug

rate, half of what it was in the seventies. Everything is better than in the seventies. When it comes to that kind of shit, I've never heard anybody say I am so much harder on my kids than my parents were. Wow. Yeah. That is everybody's game and goal is to be nicer to their children than their parents were to them. Yeah, usually. I try to limit the amount of influence the 21st century has on my boys. But they're going to have to live in that century. Right. I'd like the 18th century to have more influence on them.

That's what it is. I want my boys to concentrate on the good things in life like family, unity, music, and education. Their daily lives are not distracted with modern technological obstacles that entertain them to death i always say if it's fun it doesn't mean you have to do it jesus christ wow you have a life of no fun fun sucks wow and uh they she says i'm the disciplinarian in the house but but Tim backs me up. We both believe in homeschooling. Are your children well-behaved? We try to have not only wholesome foods but wholesome attitudes and wholesome speech, so we do not swear in our household.

Wow, that's so strange. The boys behave that way as well. I don't want my boys to make the same mistakes that I made, like spending too much time on dating so i try to instill the lessons who hurt you kathy who's that guy at ohio state that left a load on you and hurt you who did it called you a fat woman walked out well after he came on you she said that way they could benefit from my experiences that is um a lot so discipline is they use the token chart thing there's no discipline otherwise um by limiting and controlling

media and other modern distractions in the house we spend more time as a family doing simple things in life like talking and playing music together poof. Their relationship with the partner. We need very little external material things to make our relationship happy. We enjoy the simple things in life and enjoy them together. What annoys you about your partner? Tim finds it hard managing his own time.

He lives very much in the present and doesn't think about the consequences of spending 100% of his own time on the here and now without planning for the future. Wow. That is something. She is really just, it sounds like she resents Tim.

Yeah, it really does. It really fucking does, man. That's the thing. She's in control, and I think she resents maybe that Tim gets to go out and leave the house. I don't know. But she likes the control of the house. Now, on the show, their house, the Tonkovich house, the other house, from the outside looks very nice.

It's a suburban house. Inside, shit everywhere. It's a mess. Fucking burger wrappers and all that. Total opposite on our guys here, the Stockdales. Outside of the house looks like an abandoned farmhouse. Paint's all peeling off. It looks depressing. Inside of the house, spot an abandoned farmhouse paints all peeling off yeah it looks depressing

uh inside of the house spotless perfectly clean yeah she's got a labor force in there cleaning so charles says this quote they ask him about girls quote i've never been on a date there's better ways to find out about girls than dating how how what fucking better ways are there to find out about girls than dating. How? What fucking better ways are there to find out about girls than to be around girls? That's how you find out about them. What the hell are you talking about? That's like a gorilla scientist saying, you know, I'd just rather read about them. That's it. You know, there's better ways to learn about them than studying them than being in the mist with them than being in the mist so during the rule change

kathy decides that the kids can't you know they have to work and do all this shit you know when she goes to the other house she then says not gonna be happy oh no no he's not allowed to curse anymore no more smoking they say and all that they actually she says now the two couples here you guys ready to get married right now oh boy and she brings out a priest and says are you ready to get married we'll marry you right now and they're like no we're 18 and she goes okay well then you can't sleep in the same room together boys sleep in the basement together and the girls do it you know dormitory style we do it like holy so they're not happy about that.

She wakes up the next morning and says, I smelled smoke last night. And he's like, I was smoking. No one's going to tell me not to smoke. So when you go to sleep, they're smoking and fucking. Let's just say that. Yeah. So the other mom...

Guess what happened right before that smoke. Yeah, fucking pounded. The other mom brings in video games and cable TV to the Stockdale family. Oh, shit. She ruined their music career. She also wants them to write raps and perform them, which is hilarious. Yeah. She wants the boys to try to get dates, too, just to go have ice cream with a girl, please.

Yeah. Tim freaks out calvin and charles are against the idea of talking to girls they're in tears oh it's just not okay i just don't want to do it they're like can't do it she's like i'm not telling you to marry them or have sex with them just talk to them and they're like we can't okay we can't cries his fucking eyes out then the lady says that she's smart she goes will you just do it as a person just a favor for me just try it for me do it not just for me and they go okay just for you we'll do it but they were horrified by it horrified by it the the they have to do they

take them to like an alley with three black guys who do freestyle, and they're like, do your bluegrass raps. Yeah. And they do. They do bluegrass raps where they have the whole thing, and we were in the city and something, and now we're chilling. It's really bad. It's really fucking embarrassing.

Oh, and people were killing, but now we're chilling. They rhyme killing and chilling. It's not good. You don't want to be there. It's still better than the other guys, though. We're chicken killing, and now we're city chilling. Still better than being cooked in the oven like a muffin. Oh, like a muffin in the oven.

Sorry. Like a muffin in the oven. In the oven. What an asshole. So they do the show. They fight at the end. The one woman calls Kathy a terrible mother and an awful person and just a nightmare and a control freak fucking lunatic bitch every name you could call her

they have to leave the tonkovic family has to leave and have a cigarette in the middle of it and come back because they're so worked up about what a bitch this lady is and according to them because the husband hated her in the house too hated really guts oh hated her it just yeah she called the one boy's girlfriend a mooch you're mooching off these people uh-huh and she's like you don't talk to my family like that call them names and blah blah blah so after the show they continue with their band jacob also fiddled with another band, the Holmes County Bluegrass Band, until 2014. Never heard of them. Over the years, Jacob racks up a bunch of awards and shit, including the Ohio Grand Fiddle Champion in 2012.

Hey. In 2015, Jacob and James make a duet album together called Farm Fresh. Like the eggs. Like the eggs. Like the eggs. Now, I'd like to show you a picture Jacob posted on his Instagram or something from 2016. Here he is. Oh, Jacob. That's Jacob with a bird there. With a hawk.

With a hawk. Yeah. And he said, this is my spirit animal, is what he said. His name is Frank. He brings out my inner falcon. Okay. Oh, it's a falcon. And that's his face there.

He looks, that face is scary. He looks, yeah. Looks like he's a linebacker. And it said, enjoyed our time in Stockdale, Indiana. In Stockdale, Indiana. I guess there's a Stockdale in Indiana. Touring an 1857 water-powered flour mill before performing at the roan indiana covered bridge festival that's what they did um his brother calvin commented he looks scared of you i would

be too with a face like that meaning he looks crazy jacob in the picture 2017 as of 2017, the eldest sons have moved away from the homestead here. Both Calvins. And left everything. Oldest Calvin works at Hillsdale College in Michigan, which is a liberal arts school in the south-central portion of the state. And then second oldest brother, also Calvin, Calvin II, was studying to be a doctor in Philadelphia. Hey! Yeah, so that's not bad here, but they both went to school to get an education because they wanted to do stuff.

Joe Steiner, who's a banjo and harmonica player from Finley, Ohio, began playing with the band for professional gigs because the other kids are gone. But the Stockdale, the band remains a popular performing unit, although now it's just Jacob on the fiddle,dale uh the band remains popular performing unit although now it's just jacob on the fiddle james on the upright bass the dad's still there and um then they bring the other

guy in and do some shit too so that's how it works um yeah james says they talk about how much they do miss playing meaning the two calvins um when we're all together we pretty much spend our days playing so that's how this goes here. You got Joe Steiner in there, the Stockdale show. They got their bluegrass and their standards and all that kind of shit. They have ads in here for their shows, too. They were $10 for 12 and older. Free admission, 11 and younger.

So 2017, they're doing all this, like we said. Calvin, Calvin, and Charles had all moved out of the home and are living their own lives. And it's Jacob, James, Kathy, and Tim who live at the home now. That's it. James is also a business management major at Kent State University. So he lives at home, but he's doing that. So he's going to school. He's 21 at the time.

So he lives at home, but he's doing that. So he's going to school. He's 21 at the time. June 15, 2017 is when the police received that 911 call from the beginning at 436 p.m. with the hangup. Right. They hung up. Obviously, this family has a landline. Authorities take dispatch police to the location, which is the farm. Upon arrival, they see an individual on his back laying there, head toward the door.

Heard the gunshot. They ran. Now, once the cops do enter the residence, now we're up to that part. One officer finds a body laying near the front door with an apparent wound and with later on, well, that's the other one. I'm sorry, the shotgun lying at his side. That's someone downstairs. Then they find another individual deceased. And then a third individual lying on the floor in the upstairs bathroom with an apparent gunshot wound.

So this is what happens here. They get inside. They find all this. They find James lying on his side by the front door james is up front that's james there 21 year old he's blown apart by multiple shotgun wounds wow they find kathy upstairs on the floor in the upstairs bathroom with gunshot wounds as well this is a 20 gauge shotgun by the way that they're using then they find jacob as well with the shotgun next to him with a shotgun wound to the head what the fuck he's still alive jacob everybody else is dead he shot the other two and then tried

to blow his brain he called 9-1-1 hung it up so they'd come to the house yeah waited for them to get there his last minute he could yeah heard them coming tried to blow his head off but didn't fucking finish the job oh no and fucked himself up good though where's his dad on a family on a business trip oh dad's not home his dad's out of town for the day he finally had enough he had He fucking had enough. And I'm sure he said, I'm going to kill you, mom. And the brother said, calm down. He said, well, you'll get it too, that motherfucker, because I'm killing myself. I don't care.

So, yeah, they find them deceased. Like we said, between 10 and 12 shots were fired. Yeah. And only one was at himself. Right. And that one that was at himself was fired when the cops were there. When they were there. That's why it's not too big of a mystery.

They heard the last shot and he still had the gun next to him. So that's crazy. Kathy's body, it was an upstairs bathroom, like we said here. So Tim is on a business trip. He couldn't be found. They couldn't even contact him for a while. They were trying to contact him. Jacob is transported to Cleveland hospital enlisted in critical condition, but he ends up surviving the suicide attempt.

Really? He survives it. Oh, we get to talk to him. And the cops are like, we don't get it. They've never been called to this home before. Never been. Not like we come here all the time. The kids are always fighting we don't get it. They've never been called to this home before. Never been. Not like we come here all the time. The kids are always fighting.

Never been called there. He has no criminal record, no record of anything. Just everything's been fine. All he does is play bluegrass, for Christ's sake. So, yeah, they were said they're still piecing this all together, trying to figure out what the fuck here is going on. They said never been called out before jacob's never been in trouble in trouble the oldest boys had moved out obviously they said the band was still playing the band was booked for the entire upcoming summer

still got the band together makes no sense um they figured out quickly what happened everybody is shocked obviously people recall not only seeing them on wife swap, but at all these events. And they look like the ultimate family. They pile out of the van and get their instruments. And it's weird. So they said also no prior issue, no prior knowledge of any mental issues with Jacob or any other members of the family. Not that they would know or take care of them, but still. The sheriff said it's hard to, you know, kind of surmise what the motive may have been. There's some speculation. Don't really want to get into that part of it, but we'll continue to investigate this case and determine if there's a motive.

We just don't know. Good news, somebody's alive. We can ask him. We can ask him and see. But for now, he's not talking because he's fucked up pretty good. He blew half his head off. Wow. He can ask him and see. But for now, he's not talking because he's fucked up pretty good. He blew half his head off. So they talked to Laurie Tonkovich, who is the switched wife.

They go, what do you think of this? Because that got to make you go, oh, shit. T-Vix mom. She said, when I switched the rules, I hope she raps this. I hope it's all in rapping rhymes. When I switched the rules and I was going to let them have fun and let them and have television and video games and experience a little bit of life, Jacob ran outside crying. And when I went after him, I asked him what was wrong. And he said that his mom and dad tell him that basically he would burn in hell if he played video games.

So you're going to make me burn in hell. You're going to make me burn in hell. But that's how that's how tightly wound this fucking kid is. He lived in a very controlled environment really wasn't allowed to do anything he worked he worked he worked homeschooled him wouldn't let him go out amongst society they're very religious they weren't allowed to make choices i think that just caught up to them yeah yeah um tim released a statement saying kathy's been my beloved wife of 32 years and a wonderful mother to our four sons.

She loved nothing more than being a mother and grandmother. She had a strong love of learning and was passionate about her Christian faith, natural health, and organic farming. Calvin, not sure which Calvin, said, James, our youngest brother, has always been the catalyst of family fun. Aside from being a gifted musician, James enjoyed dancing and had an innate love of people. James was working on a business degree and hoped to go into the business side of entertainment. He leaves behind many friends and a family that loved him dearly.

My brother Jacob is still in critical condition, and we're praying for his physical recovery as our family makes funeral plans and begins the healing process. So they said they appreciate prayers and all that kind of shit. They asked for privacy. There is a GoFundMe, okay? And the fans raised $28,500 first for the funeral costs, but then for Jacob's medical costs. Really? People are paying for this guy's medical costs after he blew his fucking family's brains all over his house.

Oh, my. You can owe some money after that. I don't know. They're just seeing him as somebody they want to help out because the family is saying, let's help out the kid. So they are. They're targeting $40,000 for this, and they're trying to do it. People are donating money saying for Jacob. It's crazy.

So the family forgives him. They say they still love him and everything else. The father says, I don't know why Jacob did what he did last week, but, oh, this is Calvin. But I do know he is my brother maybe calvin too not sure i speak for my family when i say we love him and forgive him this was like the day after yeah yeah what huh that tells you that there's something something's off man and they understand why he would do what he did yeah they're not like holy shit what the fuck they're like i mean you know i'm not sure why but you don't forgive that you know unless you know what happened unless you feel and have some sympathy yep we continue to ask for uh

continued prayers for jacob's healing mind body mind and spirit wow uh they also held a memorial for catherine and j, a celebration of life. They noted that Jacob will be undergoing several surgical procedures to put his head back together. To fix what he did to himself. Wow. In lieu of flowers, they asked that people support the church's memorial fund. Give us money, not flowers. Yeah.

In September of 2018, after finally being recovered from the gunshot wound to the fucking head, it's been over a year. Holy. He's finally charged with the murders. The best case scenario is what he did, though. A 20 gauge is a much smaller gauge of shotgun. At least it wasn't a 12. Yeah. Oh, my God. He would have blown half his head off.

Oh, Jesus. He would have exploded like a pumpkin in that kitchen. Yep. So in December 2018, a grand jury decides not to apply the death penalty in his case. Really? I don't think so either. I think this is, you programmed this kid to fucking, to be a ticking time bomb. You can't, no.

He plans to plead guilty by reason, not guilty, by reason of insanity. Hmm. Yes. They're saying that he uh they request another psychological evaluation of whether he's competent to stand trial um they're gonna do all that they just did separate examinations will determine whether he was legally sane so they're gonna examine him but is your brain the same after you've blown a chunk of it out with a fucking shotgun no way so i mean he even if he isn't now was he then

how do you tell if he was saying then if he's got a huge brain injury now like i don't understand how you do that and not just a brain injury it's a fucking piece is missing yeah yeah some of it is not there when i show you this picture you're gonna go holy shit what happened to his fucking face so they um picture oh i got pictures of him afterwards yeah his mugshot is after post recovery so they they do a an evaluation that found him competent but then they say please look at him again because he's not fucking competent he's not helping with his defense well what they would do is he had to do a video conferencing and the judge was like, Jacob,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he wouldn't respond. He won't respond. So the judge actually would talk to the cop behind him.

Officer, can you hear me? And the cop would say, yes. They go, okay, well then Jacob, you must be able to hear me.

Jacob. They said a was just didn't want to talk and B was scared of technology and he's not supposed to use stuff like this, his mother told him. Fucking Max Hedrum is going to send me to murder. Yeah, through the fucking TV. Right. So the judge finds a psychologist found that Jacob was clinically sane when he was charged in 2017 following a bunch of delays, including a bunch of COVID stuff, because this all came out right around 2020. He's finally charged with the murders.

A Dr. Archangela Wood of the Psychodiagnostic Clinic in Akron said it's her opinion, based on reasonable psychological certainty, that Stockdale was not suffering from a severe mental disease, illness, or defect at the time he was charged. And they read the report and said, well, I mean, they actually ordered them to complete an additional evaluation to determine if he knew the wrongfulness of his actions. Like, okay, he was sane, but did he know that? They said her evaluation that an opinion regarding wrongfulness cannot be rendered because Stockdale is asserting his innocence. He's saying now he didn't even do it. Oh.

What? Yeah. So someone came in, did all that, and then snuck out while the cops were in front of the house? Right. That's pretty impressive. Shot you, the last victim, while the cops were there? An hour after you shot, they shot everybody else and then dipped into the tunnel that leads to fucking what like i don't ran out to the chicken coop wow um the

defense wants to plead guilty by not not guilty by reason of insanity but it's not working out they're looking at all the psychological reports The problem is he had previously been moved from the county jail to the Heartland Behavioral Health Care in Massillon, which is a state mental hospital. He appeared at a hearing through a video link and all this type of thing. He'd been placed there. They found out that a few days after his sanity hearing, Hartland staff has expressed concerns about his current status, particularly because he had two undocumented or two documented incidents of attempting to leave the unit in an effort to escape. He tried to escape twice. Insane. He's insane. And he's trying to get out of there.

He already knows where. Yeah. Come on. November 2019 was trying to find a way to exit the building when he had attempted to hide between book stacks at the library after closing hours. Clever. Clever. And in late December 2019, he tried to blend in with a group of people who were leaving a unit inside the facility. And they were like, not you.

Not so fast. Hey, shotgun face, come here. And his reason was, is he had got a new haircut that made him look like his cousin. He said he didn't look like him anymore, so he'd be able to slip right out. OK. They still know who the fuck you are. Yeah. They said that a letter from Heartlands said that his current current level of functioning which is more stable better

allows for him to carry out any potential behaviors or plans he may have the heartland staff is recommending that the least restrictive environment for stockdale while considering the community safety is the stark county jail get him the fuck out of here they said he's considered a flight risk and they have a duty to protect the public. And anyway, he said that he just wanted to get keys to the facility so he could leave. Yeah. They said, but his mental health is getting better. He participates in group therapy. They even do a mock trial thing with him.

Yeah. So he gets medication. They do mock trials to see if he understands what's going on in the trial. His trial? Just a mock trial in general. So are you following? What does he say? What is this person's job?

Just to see if he could follow shit like that, which is smart, actually. So, yeah, that's how they evaluate him. The one judge said, this is one of those damned if I do, damned if I don't. But I have to consider the public interest and safety. So they end up finding him competent to stand trial. Once they find him competent to stand trial, he has no choice but to plead guilty. He's fucked. I mean, he did it.

So he does. He pleads guilty to two counts of murder in exchange for, uh, firearms specifications being dismissed. So extra aggravators. Yeah. When, during sentencing, he declines to speak in court.

Really? Wow. Um, so his attorney said, we've had the opportunity to have discussions with the family throughout this process and they are supportive and show forgiveness for the crimes that Jacob is taking responsibility for today. The family members have written asking for the lightest sentence allowed. We're not mad at him.

This is the statement on behalf of the family. Our family grieves the loss of Catherine Barber Stockdale and James William Stockdale. Kathy was a loving mother, grandmother, daughter, aunt, sister, mentor, and friend to many. James was a loving son, brother, nephew, uncle, cousin, and friend to many. Kathy put all of her effort into homeschooling all four sons

through their graduation from high school. Losing her encouraging words and comforting hugs has been devastating. James was a college student and dedicated musician, bringing smiles to all. While Jacob has no recollection of the events of that day, which he might not, he trusts the legal system to do the right thing. It's beyond our understanding why this act was committed. He doesn't know because he doesn't fucking remember it. And I bet he doesn't.

Yeah. He shot himself in the fucking head. He could very easily not remember it. He took that part of the hard drive out yeah it's gone just blew it right out the letter went on to say how grateful they were to the people who saved his life they said that was nice and a family member wrote we love and forgive you for the role that you had in their deaths to the degree that we are capable of knowing the hearts of mom and james we are convinced they also forgive you for taking their lives that's a big step to take yeah i don't think kathy forgives a lot here the judge said i have to protect the public and the nature of these charges are so

gruesome you will serve the next 30 years to life in prison you sir may fuck off 30 years to life he took nothing of the family's ideas into wow no this is horrible uh now he's flighty in the head too he's probably more dangerous so it was 15 years for each murder to be served consecutively so he gave him less for the murder but he made him consecutive and banged him out that way here is a picture of our guy here oh what have you done that eye is that's a that's a glass different place yeah but i mean where it is it's over here it's not even in the same yeah it's way low and it's not even the same latitude yeah it's not the same latitude or longitude right wide right photos here That's a Buffalo Bills field goal right there. He's in the Chillicothe Correctional Institution still.

And his earliest parole hearing would be August of 2048. That's going to be his first one. Oh, God, Jesus. He's pretty fucked. By the way, a little mistaken identity crime and sports style here. When you look up Jacob Stockdale, way more than the bluegrass murderer, you get Jacob Alexander Stockdale, an Irish professional rugby union player who plays as a wing for the United Rugby Championship Club Ulster

and the Irish national team. You get a ton of him. A ton of him. He's doing great. Hasn't killed anybody. That, everybody, is Beach City, Ohio, and Smallville, Florida for this week. That is fucking great. We've never had more in-depth knowledge of people before.

That's what's so fascinating. So now the question is why? And you can all debate that amongst yourselves because I think he just snapped. I think he had enough. Yeah. Maybe. And who knows? Maybe he was talking to a girl and his mother got mad at him and he said, I've had enough

or we have no fucking idea. But you know, he was, he's, he was 20 something years old. He could have left. He could have left by then. Oh yeah. Why are you living at home? You're 25. Yeah.

The door's there. Get a fucking job and leave this is a you know another gypsy rose situation you know what's going on you're in your 20s fucking the uh jobs are that way enjoy you know what i mean and abuse is one thing but at some point when you're an adult you gotta go i'm taking myself out of this anymore right yeah so i wonder if i wonder if uh i wonder if he's the like the black sheep the one that just is incapable of you know i mean everybody else has talents and he doesn't have anything other than music and nobody gives a fuck about a bluegrass player no but the the laurie tonkovic

lady said he had the most chores out of anybody he was treated kind of she said yeah he was kind of treated i guess because he was easy going so they just made him do shit and he did everything. And in the whole thing, too, in the wife swap, there's the two older boys. They go on the date and all that kind of thing. Then there's the younger one who she's like, oh, he's so cute and young. And then there's Jacob. He doesn't really have a role. And he doesn't want to the band.

But in the family during that, he's barely on the show. So it's interesting. Anyway, there it is. If you he's barely on the show so it's interesting anyway there it is if you enjoyed that tell the world about it get on whatever app you're listening on give us five stars definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com tickets to all the live shows coming up for 2024 12 shows two of them are sold out already so get in there right now one show that's not going to sell out that you can get tickets to very soon. We can't wait for 420 virtual live show again, baby. What crazy apparatus will I bring out this time for Jimmy to freak him out? It's going to be so much fun.

A crazy murder story just like a regular live show and lots of toking and smoking. So get on in there and hang out with us for that. Also, Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. All your bonus materials. Anybody, $5 a month. Huge back catalog of bonus stuff, including two new ones every other week. One crime and sports, one small town murder. You get it all. This week, crime and sports.

We do the strangest injuries going. So we're going to do that. And then for small town murder, we are going to do old-timey murders back into the newspaper archives. Shit was raw back in the day, and we are going to do old-timey murders back into the newspaper archives. Shit was raw back in the day, and we're going to talk all about it. So we'll get into that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports.

Listen to Crime and Sports, by the way. Listen to your stupid opinions also. And if you get Patreon, the other thing you get is a shout-out. You bet. Absolutely. Also follow on social media at Small what is it at small town murder on instagram so do that you get a shout out which is gonna you're gonna hear in one second whereas jimmy will mispronounce your name even though we'd love to get it correct that said jimmy

fuck some people's names up for me let me hear them right now this week's executive producer of peyton meadows kyle norwig he's an enormous fan of fog on the the Tine. Vanessa Thompson, angry lesbian socialist, and all of our other producers this week. Holy shit, strap in. We have Jacob Cook, Maria Victoria Munoz in Scotland, Melissa Spears in Australia, Joel Sellerite, I think, S.J. Surridge, Anna Mueller, Janice Hill, Brandi Davis, Alexandra Jane, Jack Emoff. Jack Emoff. All right. Davis, Alexandra Jane, Jack Imhoff, Jackimoff. Ellen with no last name.

Jason Bryce. Yep. Rich Pop, Pope maybe. Poppy. Jacqueline with no last name. Zebra with no last name. Rory McBride. Lacey Lady. Yeah, that's true. Jeff Scherer. No, it's not Lacey. Is it Foxy? Foxy Lady was that pup that died. Oh, that's

what that was. Foxy Lady is another one. There's also Lacey Lady. Jeff Scherer, Keenan, Kieljew, Kieljew, Kooljew. Oh, boy. Kooljew? I don't know. It's K-U-L-J-U. That's not what it sounds like. Kylie, Cheryl, Brayden, O'Shaughnessy,

Joe Crystal, Rebecca Miller, Deb Deb, Gentry T, Beja Polowski, Braxton Heiserman, Lys, L-I-L-Y-S, Lyssa, oh, I think it's Alyssa, Holly Mobley, Valerie Johnson, Neil Roper, Alex Rennertz, Harvey with no last name, Stephanie Wilson, Jake Phillips, Lindsay Galvin, Joanna Smarzinski, Maddie Shug, Shug maybe, I don't know, Shug, Maddie's Shug Shug maybe? I don't know, Shug Kevin Richards

Joe Bacich Tess Ledoux Ledoux, yeah Boy from Oz Spencer Morey Shay Grant, Haley with no last name Joseph Relling, Riling James L, Jay Winborn, Wing King

Carolyn Munns Burt Booker, Aaron Henson Bobbyby gagne gagne maybe gagne gagne uh gagne gagne all right tony spigany regalette uh angela h rebecca l i'm just moving on ebony ingram uh amy o hannah lee billings uh buck fan 35. Hope you stay away from anything that's a 357. That is a tough day. Andrew Oakton, Lindsay Farroko, Alicia Kuhfeld, Lynn Capella, CeCe with no last name, Daniel with no last name, David Orley-Moberley, Kristen with no last name, Scoop with no last name, Chelsea Smith, Heather Belbeck. Mark Pyle. Erica Morin, I think. Victoria Dunn. Brian Sibley.

Don Thompson. Lisa Burney. Bernie. R. Caldwell. Caleb Keenan. Gabby Sukovich. Sukovich? Derek Hunter.

Tana with no last name. Caitlin Renfro. Steve N. Verito with no last name. Olivia Steiner. Sue with no last name. Caitlin Spencer. Cameron Graham. Jason B last name. Olivia Steiner. Sue with no last name. Caitlin Spencer. Cameron Graham.

Jason Boutinet. Jamie Goldberg. Nicole Cucera. Robbity Bobbity. Carolyn Brewster. Genesis Crowell. Danny with no last name. Chammy 103.

Anthony Harris. Tyler Scarborough. Beau Default. Oh, boy. T-Fault. Cassandra Niffin. Heath Harvey, Heather with no last name, Mistress Linda, the Grande Dame, Jen Gilf of Fyndham. I don't know where that is.

VP with no last name, Heather Brown, Jennifer Nardini, Tina Marie, Hannah with no last name, Joy Henry, Mackenzie Wells, Jessica Gonzalez, Kelly Pash, Pashke, Pashikeyo, Dave Mazzarelli, Sophie C., Callum White, the original caffeinator, Bart Simpson, Elizabeth with no last name, Samantha Boyette, Cameron Tuch, Tuch Maguch, if you want to. I hope nobody's real name is Bart Simpson, by the way. That would be tough. That's probably not true. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I get it. Thanks. I know. Yeah, it the way. That would be tough. That's probably not true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it. Thanks. I know. It was after. It was long before. Jason Cuddy, Amy Lewis, Dave Jordan, Megan Ploff, James with no last name, Nita Bodenschatz, Mark with no last name, Logan with no last name, Tia Dalby, Matthew Quigley, William William Roden Nick Umbarger Alexis Kaiser Harley Locklear

Dalton Bratton Jesse Seal Anna Ys Ron Roney Chelsea Waite Brandon Mills Corbett Cameron Bargy

Anna Schwartz Ty Blom Bo Glover Carl Carlina Peterson, Charles Olson, Chuck Olson. I think it's the same guy. I think he's got two. Richard Russell, Blake Murray, Elizabeth Pohl, Todd Beharie, Lauren with no last name, Mike Abbott, Mary Ford, Carla Mundy, Todd Guidry, Amy Collette, Dallas Straight, Vanessa Shepard, Lisa Berube, Andrea DeMocano, De Monaco, De Monaco, Christy Kering, Tom Steffens, Barbara Spencer, Carla O'Connor, Matt Clark, Monica with no last name, Darby with no last

name, Haley Villafuerte, Kaley A., Abigail Steed, Kylie with no last name, Darby with no last name. Haley Villafuerte. Villafuerte. Kaylee A. Abigail Steed. Kylie with no last name. Danielle Roberts. Crystal Sousa. Shun Lagoo. Anna Dolores. Oogly Boogly. Wood Brown. Chad Bro.

Chad Brow and Woody Brown. Carrie. Carrie Russell. Max with no last name. Caitlin Rogers. Tatiana, and all of our patrons. You're amazing. Thank you so much, everybody. You wonderful, fantastic, crazy sons of bitches. We love you, and we can't get enough of you. So thanks for all that you do for us.

Keep coming back. Get your tickets to your live shows. Minneapolis, come strong. Everybody, we can't wait for that. You want to follow us on social media, shut up and give me murder.com. Drop down menus, find us, come strong. Everybody, we can't wait for that. You want to follow us on social media, shutupandgivememurder.com. Drop down menus, find us, do that. Keep coming back. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure.

Bye. Hey Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.