Small Town Murder - #462 - The Old Flame & The Dominatrix - Ashburnham, Massachusetts

Episode Date: February 3, 2024

This week, in Ashburnham, Massachusetts, a young man attempts to reunite with his high school flame, only to find her to be a much different person than he remembered. She is now a dominatrix, who keeps vials of other people's human blood, along with animal organs, and all sorts of other creepy things. When a cruel & bloody murder takes place, one of them has a story to tell, but it's not likely that anyone will believe them!Along the way, we find out that not all music lineups are created equal, that just because you're lonely, it doesn't mean you should hang out with anyone who is willing, and if you ride a Peloton, you probably won't stumble across a horrbly murdered corpse!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay!

Choo-choo! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another insane episode of Small Town Murder Express. I don't even have to say insane.

It's normal. It's just a show. It's going to be wild stuff and uh it's there's gonna be carnage we'll say it's gonna be crazy stuff so great that was a an automatic muscle like memory answer great oh shit that's right death no not great probably not the right thing to say not great not great no uh first of all head over to shut up andgivememurder.com. Oh, yeah. Tickets to all the live shows this year. They're all up.

12 shows. And they're selling out fast. Nashville's gone. Yeah. Phoenix is gone. And there are months in the future. So get your tickets right now. First up, April 5th and 6th, Sacramento and San Francisco.

You guys are on the clock. So get in there. Get your tickets. Let's get after it. Yeah. Also going on sale here very soon, our virtual live show. Oh, hey. 420 virtual live show.

We're doing it again. And we're going to dress up as a silly duo. And you're going to hear a crazy murder story just like a regular live show. Except I'm going to break out all sorts of weird weed smoking apparatus for Jimmy to sample. And you can see it. So check all that out. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you find all the bonus stuff.

And there's a ton, anybody $5 a month or above. You get the whole back catalog, a couple hundred episodes of bonus stuff available nowhere else. And then for you get new ones every other week so can't beat it for crime and sports this week which you'll get access to we're going to talk about the strangest injuries in sports history so yeah you don't even have to like sports just have to be into and a macabre shit there sure and then for small town murder dipping back

into this one of my favorite patreon subjects old timey murders can't get me upset at this so fun dipping into the newspaper archives old time they were real graphic back then and it's wild stuff so get in there patreon.com slash crime and sports and you get a shout out at the end of the regular show too so that's a lot of fun while you're at it listen to crime and sports our other podcast and your stupid opinions our new podcast which is, sorry to say, the funniest podcast on the internet. So check all that out. But never mind all that because we have our own mess before us right now. I think it's time, everybody.

What do you say? Let's all take a deep breath here, arms to the sky, and let's all shout, Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, Jimmy. Okay. Everybody, let's go on a trip. All right. We are going to Massachusetts this week.

Okay. That's a long ride. That's a long way away from where we've been. So Massachusetts, we're going to Ashburnham, Massachusetts. Where's that at? That's the name of the town north central massachusetts it's in the oh right in the middle up area up toward the very top of massachusetts up near the border so it's about an hour 10 to boston okay and about two hours to pittsfield massachusetts in the other direction which was our last Massachusetts episode episode 413 judging the devil by his horns that's the

one where the guy actually had fucking horns installed in his head and he's gonna go in court and go no I'm a good guy I'm normal I'm totally normal I don't kill people and they're like sir you have horns I it's I'm not a demon you're coming in with a just you know you're

behind the eight ball already you know this is in uh worcester county yeah population 6 315 so not a huge town not a tiny teeny town but a small town yeah pretty small median household income here is way higher than the national average it is 104 074 dollars why that is a good i think because it's an hour it's an hour 10 to boston so you can commute to boston from here okay that's a long ride people commute to the city for my house but yeah but out there the that traffic's not so bad out there and you can make it in that out west of boston it's not so bad out there to yeah yeah maybe going to there. Yeah.

If you're coming from the north, it's probably worse. Might be worth it, yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm sure because we'll find out the median home price here, way lower than Boston, $358,100. There's why. So I think, yeah, you can have a good job in there and live out here. So a little bit of history here. Ash Burnham is in the central New England divide and is at a higher altitude. So there's some hill there. Yeah, it sends water to the north, south, east, and west, providing water to the Merrimack River and the Connecticut River.

In the early 1800s, there was enough water to power a lot of shit. Generation stations and shit. Yeah, they had tanneries and mills and manufacturing lumbers. They made tubs and pails and furniture and all sorts of shit. They manufactured, I guess their big manufacturing time was between 1870 and 1880. That was the main. Whole decade. Whole decade was their big deal.

And then at that time, Ashburnham was the second largest manufacturer of chairs in the world. Wow. Chairs. Then Pittsburgh took it over. Took it over. But yeah, before that, anywhere you sat your ass down, good chance you were sitting on one of these chairs. If it was a good chair. If it was a decent chair, obviously.

Knockoff chairs came from everywhere. Hey, we can't be responsible for these garbage dollar store chairs. That's not what we're talking about here. Here today, and I'll read this. This is from their website here in the history section. Sure. Today, Ash Burnham's largest attribute is open space. Really?

Their largest attribute is open space. The best thing we got going here? Nobody around. You can wander. You can just wander. Wow. really their largest attribute is open the best thing we got going here nobody around you can wander you can just wander wow the state forest town forest and private and public ownership and trust has given ashburton or ashburnham one-third of its undeveloped land to open space so they have lakes and all this shit so it's a it's a pretty area it's nice yeah that's it's i mean it's nice for that but it's like jesus you guys this isn't what you wanted no these people don't want development they want to work in boston come out here and be quiet but once yeah once the chairs

went away they had no choice they were like i guess we make it quiet now now that wood chipper's gone let's keep it like this this is is nice. I like the birds chirping. I like this. So a few reviews of this town. Here's one. Five stars. The town appears to be obsolete, but the land and the view of the woods are fairly beautiful. There are no nearby shopping centers, and the people are somewhat friendly.

Okay. They didn't tell you to go fuck yourself is what that is. But got the point you get what they're saying uh four stars i've seen some people get pulled over for speeding and there's always some person with bad intentions somewhere but i haven't seen anything like that it seems just fine is that a code it sounds like they were that's a code to like some foreign government, isn't it? One of these people's up to something. What is this, a game of guess who? Bad intentions?

The fuck are you talking about? I don't get it. Three stars, not too much crime. It's a small town. Yeah. Okay, it's the woods. There really isn't, unless it's violence against trees, there's not really much you can do here. Yeah.

Two stars. Employment is definitely dropping in this area. Local businesses keep going out of business. Everyone needs to drive. That's without a D. I'm like, rive? Rive. Needs to rive long distances to get to work because there aren't many opportunities around here.

I will need to move eventually to find a good enough paying job to live on okay and then finally one star this person just wants to go out past seven o'clock you feel like there's this is funny the town is dead at night and the only food rest the only food restaurant wise you will find is two poor pizza places and a decent chinese place okay chinese place is fine i'd give an extra star for decent chinese food not a lot to do other than jerking off looking in somebody's window yeah you just you know eating your egg roll tugging your egg roll that's how it works uh things to do here not too much wander through the woods, and also the Ramble Festival, which is an annual festival dedicated to basically to raise money for homeless veterans. Oh, cool.

That's a nice, obviously a good cause there. It takes place the weekend before Labor Day, and it sounds like quite the thing here. Festivities start at 9 a.m. and continue through the day as the Adam Ezra Group. That's the headliner here. That's the headliner. So let's talk about the activities here. The way they put it, oodles and oodles of awesome music. What is going on?

I've never heard music described in the oodles oodles sense how much music is there oodles i've never heard that once the only time i've ever heard the word used seriously is in silence of the lambs yeah and with noodles also silence of the lambs and noodles are the only time. Oh, and Dr. Melfi said toodle. Ooh, so that's close. Close. It's sort of in there.

Oodle is in the toodle. If you take the T out, it's in there. Otherwise, never been said. Who will be performing oodles of music? The Adam Ezra Group headlining, obviously. That's how we finish. That's not even where we start. No, no. That's the end.

Also, the Pat McGee Band. Okay. The Chad Hollister Band. Okay. Probably also Irish. Yeah. It is. I was going to say sounds country, but no.

It's outside of Boston. I'm sure it's Irish. Searcy, which is capital letters S-i-r-s-y uh golden oak cali stoddard amari um shanna in a dress it's not getting better daniella cotton jesus okay cotton and in a dress get shanna and daniella together and they can be Shanna, Daniela in a cotton dress. And then you have something. Now that's an act. Got anybody in lace?

Anything? No? Then Steve Hartman will be there. Oh, yeah. Sounds like a cruise ship comedian. Everybody in our aft deck here, Steve Hartman, everybody. Just bring your food from the buffet and eat it while Steve performs. No relation to Phil.

None. No. None. No. God, no. He doesn't even do voices. Ponche Ponce. Yeah.

And then finally, this has got to be my favorite name of all time, Tall Travis. Okay. Just Tall Travis. He's pretty tall. How tall do you have to be to go by tall travis 11 taller than tiny travis i guess yeah it's better than that also a little bit bigger than travis trent yes i'm tall travis they told me not to go my name's travis trot and they told me that was no good i should go by tall travis instead that was bad stuff yeah so there you go uh seems like i'd rather just give them money um and not have to listen to all this music

so can i can i good cause take my money i'm going home now they should just put a little sign in the tip jar that says once we get to 150 we'll quit. Like that night we wanted to pay a band to stop playing so we could eat dinner at a place. We're like, what are they making, 50 bucks? Let's offer them 100 to stop. What we were thinking that night, but that's what we were doing because I don't want to listen to them plays fucking taking care of business over and over again.

That's still the funniest thing I've ever heard. It really was. Funniest idea ever come up. How much can we raise to shut them the fuck up? Because we'll go around and get a kitty going here i mean it'll go past the hat there's a lot of people who would have said fucking here's 20 tell him to shut the fuck up tell him to stop it tell him pete said fuck you here's 20 matter of fact all right fuck you on this 20 there you go fuck you there you go

that said let's talk about a murder shall we okay all right let's go back not too far back in time as a matter of fact 2018 we're gonna go to yeah yesteryear very close just happened pretty much um we're gonna talk first of all about a young lady let's talk about a young lady named julia enright okay julia enright she's born in 1997 she is 21 years old in 2018 she lives on her parents property her dad seems to have this big property where there's multiple it's a 29 acre property shit it seems to be like a main house and then a smaller house in the back uh there's a tree house that we'll talk about as well. It seems to be pretty well equipped, which you'll understand later on. So she seems to live there, maybe in the house in the back.

Now, there's a guy she met in high school. We'll talk about him here. His name is Brandon Chickless, which is Chick, L-I-S. Yeah, like the guy from fucking The Shield. Yeah, except with a K. Michael? Yeah, Michael Chickless. It doesn't have a K in it, does it? I don't know. It might have a K in it. I don't remember. yeah like the guy from fucking the shield yeah except with a k because his name isn't yeah michael chick it doesn't have a k in it does it i don't know it might have a k in it i don't

remember i don't know what it's got i don't know yeah that guy though i just know what he looks like i'm bald now so i'm tough yeah for whatever reason he's a badass when my hair looked like duck feathers on the commish i wasn't tough but now I'm tough, damn it. Watch out. I'm the toughest cop that you guys have ever seen. Watch out, drug dealers. I've shaved. I have shaved. That's hilarious today. I have aftershave on my head.

Come here. I lotioned it up good. You should feel it. It's soft. Come on. No, it's all right. Before you go to jail, feel feel it. It's soft. Come on. No, it's all right. Before you go to jail, feel my head. Talk about the crimes you've committed now.

While you're rubbing my head, if that would make you feel better. If you want. Now, they met as classmates in high school at Montachusett Regional Vocational Technical School. Montachusett? Montachusett. Regional? Regional Vocational Technical. we should add more shit to that yeah we should have catering college and clown academy and

midas motorcycle mechanic yeah midas muffler specialty fucking yeah that is a hodgepodge of things that's a lot so they were on the same school bus as sophomores and at the place and they began dating so they dated in like sophomore junior year then they broke up while they were still in high school sure and kind of went their separate ways but this was like you know three years before this because he's 21 also so they're both that was their high school, that high school. So that was, you know, just a few years before that. Sure. It happened a couple of, like, two, three years.

So late 2017, as you do, you know, she must have felt, they must have felt nostalgic over high school, being that it happened a year and a half ago. Right. You get nostalgic. And they can reconnect with each other over facebook in late 2017 of course they did julia everybody that gets out of high school starts thinking about things that they missed in high school opportunities they

missed and they always message somebody from high school they do and try to try to fucking figure it out it's it's trying to get how to get How to get their pants off them. It is very disturbing how many messages I've gotten in the past from when Facebook first was, we were all getting on Facebook from, hey, I know we used to- How you been? Yeah. Girls, I went out, what are you doing? Do you have my number?

No. Exactly. No, I haven't talked to you since we were 16. What are you doing right now? We're in our 30s. Yeah, I know. Yeah, before that, I think. Yeah, early 20s or early 30s, yeah.

So ridiculous. Well, they ended up, they dated in high school. They break up. They connect through Facebook again. Now, by 2018, she's got a new boyfriend, but she still talks to Brandon on Facebook. Sure, we're friends. And they text now, too, as well. Yeah.

Which, I mean, they've known each other. Sometimes people you've, I can assume, I don't know people that I went out with in high school as friends, but I would assume maybe if you went out with somebody when you were 15, it didn't work out. Then you ended up later on in high school being part of the same friend group or something. Sure. Then you'd be, I don't know. I'm trying to figure out a way. Graduating class. That's the only thing that we had in common the bus you know yeah so born around the same time that's been the

ballpark so john lind is her new boyfriend l-i-n-d and that's who she's going out with in 2018 now june of 2018 comes around yep Yep. June 23rd, 2018. And Brandon is upset with his girlfriend that day. Yeah. Not happy. And his girlfriend, not Julia, another girl. Yeah. He took issue with her seeing a past boyfriend.

Oh. Didn't like that she was going to go hang out with somebody who she went out with in high school. Meanwhile, he has, he's always talking to Julia. And as a matter of fact, he's always asking Julia to hang out. Yeah. Like, when are we going to hang out? And she's always kind of blowing them off on hanging out, but they keep talking. Yeah. You only get, uh, you only distrust somebody else when, when you got things to be untrustworthy about. You know what I mean? On this particular day, he really has something to be untrustworthy about because he's supposed to go hang out with Julia that night.

Why are you so upset, sir? But he's mad at her for the exact same thing. What are your intentions over here with Julia? Why don't we set your old boyfriend and Julia up together and then we'll go out? Yeah. Me and you will stay together and they can go in a relationship together and probably should be doing whatever. That would be more normal. Yeah.

So Brandon leaves on June 23rd at night, left his home to visit. I guess he said he was going to visit family in New Hampshire. That's where he said he was told people he was going, but he never showed up in New Hampshire. Oh. And then no one could get a hold of him. And this is 2018, so people are texting him, looking at his social media, everything, and he's gone.

He's not replying. He's not doing anything. So they quickly report him missing. The next day they report him missing because it's not like him to disappear. 21, 20? Or he's 20 at this point? He can do whatever he wants. That's what I mean.

I don't know why you're reporting him missing, but I guess the fact that he hasn't updated anything on social media. And if he's generally reliable. That's what it is, is he's generally reliable and he's always around. Reliable. That's what it is, is he's generally reliable and he's always around. No 20-year-old kid in 2018 didn't communicate with somebody on their phone in some way for a whole day. It just didn't happen. So they even put out, there's posters of him, missing posters up.

Within a couple of days, the family is on top of this shit. They say he's missing from Westminster, Mass. 20 years old, 6 foot tall, 155 pounds. Last seen about 1 a.m. on June 23rd in Westminster. He has a 2010 gray Honda Civic, license plate 7NA723, and they're looking for that. They said he was last seen in a black hoodie white shirt and jeans very new england very new england and it shows that it must be beautiful here because he's wearing a hoodie out in late june at night which is pretty fucking awesome that's a great climate that's a nice night we're big into hoodies at night me and jimmy so that's that's our james

shit that's our jam right there so that's never want to be in anything less than that's wonderful hoodies are the greatest thing ever so good pockets and a hood so good yeah comfy wonderful stuff can't call me fat we're all we all look the same oh yeah everybody looks everybody looks like they're about to get gout it's fine yeah so we got some health problems. A little bit of foot problems based on fatty meats. So June 29th comes around. He's missing for five days, six days almost.

So that's a long time. Sure is. Nothing happens. And then finally, on Route 202 in Ringe, New Hampshire, at a Hannaford supermarket parking lot, which if you're an East Coast person, there's always nice supermarkets, they find his car in the parking lot. Oh. So like, okay, did he just get a job at Hannaford's and not tell anybody or something?

He's just running the produce department now? Yeah, that's what he is. Like, hey, guys, listen, I got stocking to do. Leave me a fuck alone, all right? I'll explain it all later i i hit the ground running at this job yeah i'm assistant manager guys i got responsibilities i gotta do scheduling and then i'll explain my missing most of the avocados are hard give me a break give me a minute i gotta find them jesus they might be at the bottom i don't know. Why would you pack the hard ones on top? So his car is found. And then 11, 12 days later, July 10th, 2018, there is a jogger jogging along Route 119 in

Ringe, which is about six miles from the supermarket. A jogger's going by, and they find his body on the side of the road. Shit. And it is not a pretty sight. No? He has been put through the ringer, obviously. And no, he's all cut up. Really?

And on top of that, it is summer. Oh, boy. He's been dead for over two weeks. Yikes. There is a lot of decomposition, too. It is not good. It's not the thing you want to find in the morning on a jog. In a mountain-y wildlife area?

Oh, boy. Why do people jog? All they do is find corpses. It's all you find. It's constant. Just enjoy your gout. Jesus. Sit home with your gout.

Have some supper set and just eat that. It's so delicious. I your gout. Jesus, sit home with your gout. Have some supper set and just eat that. It's so delicious. I'm telling you, what are we doing here? Stop jogging. Get a fucking fan bike and watch the news. Sit in your living room. Go out in your driveway. Just run around in a circle.

You'll get the same amount of exercise. Get a Peloton, a small treadmill, something. Stay indoors. If I'm Peloton's marketing people, I'm like, have we decided, have we told anybody, have we had any campaign that says guaranteed not to find a corpse on your Peloton? Anybody at all? The treadmill, the bike, no one's ever found a corpse on one of them. I'm not saying you're going to find one if you're riding outside,

but you have a million times chance higher. We all know you're probably going to find one. you're riding outside, but you have a million times chance higher. We all know you're probably going to find one. You'll never get one here. Ever. That's the Peloton guarantee. Peloton promise. No corpses on your exercise walk. I'm in at that point.

The Peloton promise. The Peloton promise. No corpses. Hire us, motherfuckers. We're already increasing your sales. Already. Look at what we just did. That's a great marketing campaign.

We just made a Peloton promise. A promise that you can fucking for sure never have to pay money out because you broke it. And they advertised on our show at one point yeah remember we had to do ads for them at one point they never they wouldn't let us say that they never asked us they showed up what can we what can you guys do for us our audience people that were considering exercise they go yeah they got a point i swear to god our audience will understand they go they have a point it's a good promise It's a good promise. It's a good promise. Schwinn never promised me that. Fuck no.

You think New Balance is promising you that with their shoes? No. Get out there and walk and find corpses. That's all that's out there. Corpses. Nike said just do it. Just go find it. Just go find corpses.

That's what it is. The North Face literally says never stop exploring stop exploring get a peloton you know what's out there corpses that's it decomposing bodies are the only thing out there yeah a peloton promise you will never find one with that fuck so this person's morning routine is now forever scarred and marred by this whole thing. So this was, like I said, on Route 119 directly opposite East Main Street in Ringe. And they said that, you know, obviously they were looking at it. They said he was stabbed 10 to 12 times. We'll find out later but when they find his body they don't can't tell that right away because it is wrapped in a lands end blanket and placed inside two large trash bags oh which are duct taped to him

wow so inside trash bags then with a comforter on it after that lands and inside yeah and jewelry recovered from the body matches the jewelry that brandon wears so that was pretty tough and so they had an initial identification and then they take it in and find out it's definitely him so it's obviously ruled a homicide people don't stab themselves duct tape plastic bags to them themselves and then wrap themselves in a comforter yeah and and also put yourself in a jogging route. Nobody did that. In May of 1980, near Anaheim, California, Dorothy Jane Scott noticed her friend had an inflamed red wound on his arm and seemed unwell. She insisted on driving him to the local hospital

to get treatment. While he waited for his prescription, Dorothy went to grab her car to pick him up at the exit, but would never be seen alive again, leaving us to wonder, decades later, what really happened to Dorothy Jane Scott? From Wondery, Generation Y is a podcast that covers notable true crime cases like this one and many more. Every week, hosts Erin and Justin sit down to discuss a new case, covering every angle and theory, walking through the forensic evidence, and interviewing those close to the case to try to discover what happened. And with over 450 episodes, there's a case for every true crime listener. Follow the Generation Y podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Generation Y ad-free right now by joining

Wondery Plus. I understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast. We'll be revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on Max starting April 21st. Bye bye. The official Jinx podcast. Listen on Max or

wherever you get your podcasts. And this person, other people jog by here all the time. This must be kind of a new thing, too, they think, or maybe it's been dumped.'re not sure so they said that they the medical examiner said that the marks on his body the stab wounds were generally in a v shape they said the wounds were vertically oriented or oriented vertically what does that mean so i believe that would mean that the person was on the ground being stabbed. Stabbing up? Like up and down, vertical stab wounds. Oh, okay. In the shape of a V, the 12 stab wounds on the chest, starting here, going down, going up.

But there was more here. They showed later on, they used a plastic replica of the breastbone and cartilage and showed where they observed the cuts there were six areas where the cartilage and 12 cuts in the shirt that was on his remains so six areas where the cartilage was cut 12 areas in the shirt because they tried to they were trying to line up the shirt and the stab wounds and stuff like that yeah yeah yeah so they said that whatever the knife that was used may have missed the ribs or cartilage going in between, too. So you can't just say those wounds. So they said the shirt also could move.

So then sometimes stab wounds could not go through the shirt at all. Sometimes it could be you could make two if the shirt's folded over a little bit on them. In a struggle, it could be two stabs through the shirt. There's only one stab wound. So they said you can't reallys through the shirt that's only one stab wound so they said you can't really rely on the shirt to tell they also um they had um there was maggots and insects and everything else too so they were trying to figure out all that sort of thing new england summers get fucking muggy man they get very muggy and he's been brutalized. I mean, they said also, too, there's no soft tissue remaining.

It's just cartilage because of the decomposition. So they're like, who the fuck did this to him? And this is very personal. Nobody took his wallet and did this. This is a lot. And the way it was done, too, in this weird V shape and the stab wounds were, they were saying that they're like more than just a utilitarian. They seem really,

really getting in there pretty deep for no reason. So they said he had a new cell phone, got one around the time of his killing here. So they do get call detail records and location data. And when they find that, cause that's the first thing like well where was he they check that they indicate that brandon was at julia's residence julia and writes residence from about 11 30 a.m to 3 p.m three and a half hours that's a long time on june 23rd

so he left his house at one o'clock in the morning and got there at 11.30 and was there for three and a half hours. They said that the cell phone records place him at 171 Packard Hill Road in Ashburnham, Mass. They say that he'd been there, and then all of a sudden at 3 o'clock, there is no further cell phone data. They said at that point, the phone was either turned off or destroyed, but

it stopped transmitting. Whatever happened had to have happened there. Poof and done. So they made plans to hang out on June 23rd and write message Brandon that she had a quote. Here we go. Quote surprise idea in mind for

him, but it could only be done if no one knew we were hanging out that's what she says has to be a secret that we're hanging out then i could have a surprise for you okay that's weird then later on on june 23rd she exchanged text messages with john lind her boyfriend one of which read i have to attempt some things and then I should hopefully have the surprise. So the first one. Yeah. So she's telling two different guys she's got a surprise for them.

Yeah. Here. Okay. Now, on June 23rd at 1020 a.m. So that's before he's at the residence. Right. An hour before. Julia texted to her boyfriend, not to Brandon.

She texted, I have to attempt some things and then I should have the surprise. Then there was other ones. On June 22nd, the day before, Enright, Julia, asked her boyfriend, quote, do you think we could add bubbles to a bloodbath? Hmm. Which is a really weird thing to. Like a bath bomb? In a bath full of somebody's blood?

I don't know. Yeah, could you put Mr. Bubble in there and just have a, you know. And he said he was sure they could find a way was his answer. Okay. Now, her texts with Brandon started kind of that we know of in april where he has his new phone and he sent her a message brandon sent julia a message in april 2018 about feeling lonely yeah and she wrote back quote you tend to push people away so i imagine that will stay consistent you're a dick to everyone usually.

What? Still feel good about yourself, lonely? Jesus. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Tough love, I guess. I don't know. You've really put things in perspective.

Gee, thanks. You should be a therapist. Does that add therapeutic to that title of that school? Vocational regional logic. So then in the following weeks, Brandon asked her to hang out several times, but she declined, saying that she's busy on every time. Can you want to hang out Friday? I'm busy. I got this one.

Hang out this day. So on June 22nd, 2018, Julia, then out of nowhere, after two months of turning him down asked brandon to hang out over the weekend and mentions that she hasn't been to the tree house in eons oh in eons she says yeah yeah eons so the tree house we'll find out is where they used to hang out in high school and make out and shit and have sex haven't done it in eons eons haven't been up in this treehouse so yeah maybe we'll get a little treehouse action yeah so yeah and then that's when she texted i have a surprise in mind a surprise idea in mind but it can only be done if no one else knows we're hanging out okay has to be a secret so then he writes to julia that she is his only friend

he writes to julia that she is his only friend this poor guy he has a girlfriend yeah but i don't know yeah it's still sad and she tells my heart that's sad to say she tells him to quote make sure you don't tell anyone where you're going i just told you you're my only friend wow if someone wants to hang out and they say hey hey, don't tell anyone where you're going or who you're going to be with, I'm terrified. Right? Yeah, but he's just like, don't worry. I got nobody else to tell. Yeah. I got nobody.

20 and horny is a different thing. Yeah, it is. I'm like, don't tell anyone. I'm telling everyone where I'm at now. I'm certainly texting my mom right now. I'm sharing locations with at least three people at this point we're not fucking around anymore we're gonna live stream us hanging out yeah because i'm not doing this shit i'll probably instagram live this in my pocket for real that's happening so on the morning of june 23rd julia tells brandon that she wants to get UV blue. Oh, it's a vodka.

That's right. Oh. And he offers to pick it up. She tells Brandon to arrive at her house using the back drive, quote, so we don't have to deal with my father. So sneak into the house. Yeah. Just make this all. In our 20s?

Jesus Christ. Come on. 21 and 20 or 21 and 21. So Brandon says there's texts from him while he's clearly on the property because he says he's passing by cows on the back driveway and says, how much farther do I need to go to get to where I need to be? Well, it's 24 fucking acres. Yeah, she responds that, oh, I'm almost there to meet you, so I'll come meet you.

And then hours later, after his phone has stopped sending any data at 3 o'clock, at 8.15 p.m., she sends him a message saying, you never got here. Did something come up? Where are you? Meanwhile, he was on the property, and she said, I'm almost to you at 11.30 in the morning. Yeah. So based on this, and also on July 13 13th in the late morning or early afternoon this is three days after his body's found julia makes internet searches about a body found in range as

well oh really which if it was your friend who never showed up and then there was a body you might look that up so that's not that suspicious so police talked to julia because based on cell phone data that's where he was so yeah what the fuck and then they look at his texts and they're like okay something's up she waved her miranda rights and spoke to them she said yeah we dated in high school we had a sexual relationship in sophomore and junior year so good for them good for him boy as a sophomore she's getting fucking raped jesus so they said they she said they reconnected. They were communicating on and off. And she's told the troopers he never showed up,

despite the messages saying he was in the back driveway. She said he did stuff like that. That's why I never questioned it. That's what she told the cops. Okay. Sometimes he would show up and then disappear, I guess, is what he does. He just does weird shit. So then Julia also sent several messages to him in the following days.

And the messages were basically they talked about how or she talked to the cops about how they went back and forth. And she said, yes, the treehouse was the first place that they had a sexual encounter in high school. Hell yeah. And she said, yes, the treehouse was the first place that they had a sexual encounter in high school. She described Brandon as a troubled kid who was having some issues with his current girlfriend. She said they dated in freshman, sophomore year of high school. Jesus, a freshman. He's getting laid in treehouses. She told troopers after she told troopers that it was like puppy love at the time. told troopers that it was like puppy love at the time.

She said that, um, the, the one guy trooper Douglas grout at this point tells Julia, he wants to get an idea of who chickless was from your perspective, from Julia's perspective. And she said, I know we had been talking a lot about having issues with his girlfriend. It appeared to stem from kind of just unintelligent petty arguments okay unintelligent

she said that in 21 that sounds like just yeah dumb she could have said dumb dumb arguments stupid shit stupid stuff you know dumb shit unintelligent she's trying to sound polysyllabic and yeah i'm smart yeah i'm helping with the investigation because I'm part of the team. I'm using technical words. Yeah. You know how that goes. Um, and right then describes Brandon as not very likable, not a real likable guy says he's aggressive and a little emotionally

abusive. She said it made her feel sad because she liked Brandon's girlfriend, Jocelyn Williams. And she also said that Jocelyn was uncomfortable with Brandon spending time with Julia because Julia is a former girlfriend. So she said that they Brandon had asked her to hang out on many occasions after high school. But she told she said that she ignored him. And eventually they started spending time together every few months. But less than that lately.

Yeah. time together every few months but less than that lately yeah now she said that it seemed like brandon wanted something to have to happen between the two she said he tried to kiss me a few times but we never had sex what the fuck brandon so we've been hanging out but you know uh then she told the cops here that brandon said he was living with his girlfriend only because he had no place to live and he didn't speak kindly about his girlfriend. And she said she hadn't talked to Brandon within the past few weeks, which he's been dead. So you definitely have it. No one has.

It's impossible. So she says that he just never showed up that night and, you know, all of that. So she said, quote, he never contacted me and he didn't show up. And they were like, huh. So they, you know, they're talking about more about the tree house. He said, tell us more about this tree house. And she said, oh, it's a fun place to sit under. That's all.

It's raised. It's high enough to be where you can walk underneath it up in the tree. So she's like, you can sit under it. It's nice. She told the cops also that Brandon had made many suicidal statements before. Oh. She said in the past he always joked about suicide, like constantly. He had that dark sense of humor and he was really suicidal when we were younger, but I didn't think he would act on it.

Ma'am, he was, okay. She doesn't know how he was found. That's, well, then the tro trooper says here's the thing whatever happened started at your property that day and we know that she then asked for a break we have a break quick break quick break i gotta gather my thoughts take five yeah i gotta pee so they do that they have a break and she said she comes back and she said i want want to tell you everything. Oh. Now it's a different story. Uh-huh. Okay.

Now she goes on to tell them that he did come over that night. Okay. Okay. They got drunk in his car. Yeah. Even though they have a tree house and another place to hang out. At 1130 in the morning. In the morning.

Yeah. Yeah. Shit-faced. And they kissed and listened to music. Okay. She said that's when Brandon claimed to have a large amount of cash at the time. He said, I got a bunch of cash and you know what I really want to do? Go buy a bunch of cocaine.

That's what he said. This cash is burning a hole in my pocket. Let's put it in my nostril. Yeah. I can go on vacation or. Or. Hear me out. Let's do a bunch of blows so julia said she agreed

to do cocaine with him okay and went back to her house uh while he went off to buy the coke but he never came back that's what she said he left to go buy the drugs and never came back she said with the cops that's everything i'm sorry i shouldn't have skipped any of that yeah there's a dead guy and you're lying about being the last person to see him alive so you know yeah that's maybe she this story yeah they said well when you heard that he was missing why didn't you come forward yeah she said i guess i just hoped i don't know it was stupid of me i figured he was fine wow um so they said listen um they tell julia that she knew from the minute you got in there minute you got here that this guy's dead you've known he's dead you you absolutely know she said

i had no idea that he had died which we know she had done internet searches so she knew she knew the film right and she because she had given the cops her phone right now too to look through so they know that too so she said she doesn't know what more she can tell them uh she said they said well why july and she said stupid emotional stuff and she didn't want to she was worried about admitting to their planned drug use i didn't want to intelligent yeah I could be put in jail for wanting to do cocaine you know that goes so they said bluntly the cop says did you murder Brandon or have anything to do with his death just bluntly and she said no god no um she said several times because they kept saying did you go in the treehouse with them and she kept saying no no never never went in the treehouse

absolutely not um she asked police when she could get her car back because they had to do a they had to search her car ma'am can i get my prius back because i gotta go you know what i mean uh then she said she needed to leave at this point then they tell her um well don't know about that because his DNA was found not only in your car, but also in your treehouse. Uh-oh. So that's a little bit of a problem. She said it shouldn't be. There's no way.

I'm sure it shouldn't be. Yeah. So they said, well, based on your dumb statements and your lying and your cell phone records, we went ahead and searched your house while we're doing this and holy shit did we find some interesting shit okay at her home yeah in a room adjacent to julia's bedroom they found several skeletal remains of animals what oh julia is a straight pocket robin dude she's really nuts if you haven't listened to that. That's the Vampire Pyramid Scheme in Marshfield, Massachusetts. Again, Massachusetts. What is it with Massachusetts?

It's the outskirts, man. The cities are fine. This is crazy. They said that the bones were positioned in a manner in which gave the appearance that they were being placed back together. Like she took them apart and then like, you know. She's rebuilding them. Rebuilding them apart and then, like, you know. She's rebuilding them. Rebuilding them there, yeah, like little Legos. They also found numerous vials of blood.

Yeah. All labeled with people's names. What? She keeps people's fucking blood in vials, Jimmy. How does she get it? Well, we'll find out, because she's into some. Oh. She has clients and things like that. What? We'll talk about it. Okay. Oh, it's weird. Oh, yeah. Oh, we'll find out because she has clients and things like that.

What? Okay. Oh, it's weird. Oh, yeah. Oh, she's a weirdo. People are donating? Yeah, they're paying for it, as a matter of fact. Oh, my God.

A glass pitcher, a quarter full with a red substance that appeared to be blood. Yeah. And a glass beaker with what appeared to be a small heart likely from an animal. Oh, dear Lord. Okay. And she's not like a biology major where she's like, oh, I'm an anthropologist or some shit. She's a fucking weirdo, and we'll get into this. What the fuck?

Also, images of her room show a raven or a crow in a jar. Pocket raven. Caw, caw a pocket raven tweet tweet call call what the fuck are we talking about an organ in a jar of something else a bunch of knives four vials of blood and some kind of outfit similar to a bodysuit and we'll talk about that okay there's also images of a clearing just past the house where investigators found a kennel with a tub inside. What's her fucking problem, man?

In the kennel inside the tub are the decomposed petrified remains of some sort of animal that was inside the tub along with water and pine needles. So they just left them something out there to rot. Also, they found documents, notebooks, and business cards, which had Julia's photo on them and indicated that she was a professional dominatrix, which is how she got blood vials. Really? Yeah.

These guys think it's hot. They like being abused. Oh, my God. She's bloodletting and getting paid for it. Yep. Good Lord. So she did all this and getting paid for it. Yep. Good Lord. So she did all this for money, which is her business. She's a party.

Oh, yeah. There's a bed and a brass bed frame with restraints tied to each corner. That's her bedroom. In that room? Oh, in her bedroom? Her bedroom. Oh, my God. That photo was recovered from a website called

restraints for you number for you.com yeah she had her own just like she uploaded it to like see i have a good restraint setup which is i guess what those fucking weirdos do or what i don't know that's weird or not whatever you're into that's fucking whatever you're into though oh that's a little once blood gets in i'm out i'm out i'm out that's fucking... Whatever you're into. If you're bloodletting, though, oh my God. That's a little weird. Once blood gets in, I'm out. I'm out. I'm out. That's not lube, you guys. Oh, God.

Jesus Christ. And also, photos of John Lynn with cut marks on his back. Oh, her boyfriend. Her boyfriend with cut marks. She's cutting him. Yeah. So, the notebook recovered allegedly includes details about her relationship with Brandon. She wrote it down in addition to an entry about her fantasy of killing a person.

Dear Lord. She wrote that she wanted to cure the world of overpopulation. One person at a time. One person at a time. Jesus Christ. Real slow-like. Wow. She was asked about the notes, and said yeah i did write them but i did

it for a creative writing class then i just left it in a notebook and didn't do anything i was writing a show you know how that goes just writing some stuff here okay they subpoenaed uh for phone calls they also got a subpoena for phone calls made well because they arrest her after they find all the dna and everything yeah so while she's in there she makes phone calls and in the phone calls she expressed a consume talking to her boyfriend expresses a concern that investigators are going to look through her laptop and she's very concerned about that so they go where's her fucking laptop anybody got her laptop handy this wow unintelligent bitch. This is going to be awesome. Whatever's in there.

Hilarious that she said unintelligent a little while ago. Unintelligent. They also checked in the treehouse. They found bloodstains as well as handles attached to the walls near the four corners of the room. Low to the floor. Presumably used to attach restraint devices yeah so someone would lay laying on the floor and then oh my god that's how vertical stab wounds are possible on someone taller than you that's how you could do that um so that's pretty wild um and by the way a couple

months before there was somebody else in the house that had gone up there to do something with the tree house and the restraints were not there that was just she just put them in so there's a new addition to the tree house here also lab determined that brandon's blood was present on the stairs leading into the tree house on the inside of the tree house under the tree house and in her vehicle dear christ his blood is everywhere yeah her boyfriend, they talked to her. Johnny. Yeah. According to this affidavit, she said, quote, the only thing I am worried about and getting anxious about is I want to know if they got into my computer.

I assume they got into my laptop. Just all my creepy dark stories that they are going to twist. You know, all the ones about the things that we did. Yeah. The exact things. You know, all the ones about the things that we did. Yeah, the exact things. In an affidavit, it says it was apparent that the treehouse had recently been cleaned and a new rug had been placed on the floor.

When the rug was removed, it appeared that blood had seeped through the floorboards. Oh, boy. Wow. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to

officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of

some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to the small town of Chinook, where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery Plus, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers

at a drug-addicted teenager, but local deputy Ruth Vogel isn't convinced. She suspects connections to a powerful religious group. Enter federal agent V.B. Loro, who has been investigating a local church for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law,

her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth. With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid.

We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wond in the wondery app or on apple podcasts um yeah she said she has not been there in a long time more evidence a blue tarp in an unopened package was recovered from a pickup truck parked at her residence which was previously um and that used to be her primary vehicle before she started using the Prius. The tarp and the mark on the cinder block were the same color blue there. They said inside her Prius were stains that could have been blood. And also they found out they were blood and they matched him. The stains were determined to, like I said, be blood. And they were trying to find other parts of blood on anything here. A neighbor said that after midnight one night in June, this woman, Leanne Roy, said she

woke up to a screaming sound. She said, I was awoken out of my sleep to a sound that still gives me goosebumps to this day. The noise just went through my spine. She said she woke up her husband, and they they went to double check the locks on her doors and close curtains on make sure sliding glass doors are locked and all that shit she said the sound appeared to be one voice and lasted long enough long enough to wake her up from her sleep and continue to hear it as she lay there awake like you're murdering someone yeah

so and they lived at 173 packard hill road which was next door there so um they said that after hearing the scream she didn't go back to sleep she stayed up and cuddled with some dogs she had to try to calm down and uh they said was it or human? And she said it was absolutely human. She couldn't say if it was male or female, but it sounded like a deeper sound. She said, I can tell you it was blood curdling. That's what I can tell you. So, yeah, that seems like a lot. She said no one had ever asked to use the treehouse, and they didn't know because this treehouse was on the neighbor's property, not even on her property.

It was just way in the back she said she didn't know that julia had been using the treehouse and she knew that the restraints didn't belong there because it's her fucking treehouse right she's like where these sex restraints come from you know what i mean so she said there was carpet inside the treehouse in april 2018 she took it out in addition to a broken window and she'd been cleaning the treehouse in hopes to use it with her children. Probably not now. I'll bet you're going to burn it. So, yeah, they

arraign her on Brandon's 21st birthday. Get out. Yep, they believe they arraign her and the laptop, here's what they find. Once they get into the laptop, she indicated that she thought of killing killing and torturing another person quote unquote um which i mean you could kind of guess

that's what she didn't want people to do they had to go through a whole legal thing to compel her finally a judge compelled her to provide the password for her computer so they didn't have to spend thousands of dollars on forensic computer people to get into this fucking thing so the um she said i yeah this is what they found in a notebook so they're wondering what's in there they found uh something that said i daydream about it on occasion i just have this insatiable curiosity to kill a person what the fuck lady why you're so young so weird they also found documents on her macbook focusing on sexual obsession and admiration for a person and describes being aroused by an event she said it was this was june 28th 2018 this document said it was a form of a present i just did it for him that was my intention so then they look at john lynn's cell phone and

they find out that from three o'clock to 5 30 p.m on june 23rd after the brandon's phone had stopped you know broadcasting there lynn's phone was in the area of his residence in Ashburnham, also near Julia's residence. Then 7.17 p.m., the phone starts to move into southern New Hampshire near the Hannaford supermarket in Ringe and near where Chiklis' body is found. By 8 p.m., the phone is back near his residence. This is John Lynn, so they track him all around. Yeah, they said between 9.30 and 11 p.m.,

the phone is near Packard Hill Road, then moves toward the location where Brandon's body was found and goes back down to Ashburnham after that. Okay. Wow. So that's kind of hard to do there. Yeah, you can't. How do you argue?

How do you say you had nothing to do with this? That's hard. So the prosecutor, now they go to trial for, Linda's a separate thing. They take Julia to trial on first degree murder charges here. She says that her whole thing is the prosecutors are saying she created a huge lie, lied about it, then lied a little less, but it was still a huge lie. We have physical evidence and, um, you know, she's, they said all the messages she was sending Brandon after he was dead was obviously very calculated to cover her shit, to cover her shit up because he definitely died with her so you know um now both the prosecution and the defense they don't say she didn't do it the defense said yeah they were in a tree house up there they met in the tree house before um

the part the part the defense disagrees on is that they say that brandon turned violent and sexually aggressive that night and julia defended herself by stabbing him 12 times and wrapping his body in plastic bags and and a comforter and dumping him into the next state wow that's a tough one um the prosecutor said she's into bones and death and blood and shit. How many people here on the jury have vials of other people's blood they keep in their bedroom? Anybody? She named them. Yeah. She named them.

These ladies. Yeah. Wow. So they said that this was basically their theory is that this was a surprise gift for her boyfriend. Yeah. that this was a surprise gift for her boyfriend. Yeah. So both parties agreed that afterwards,

Julia and her boyfriend then wrapped the body up, gathered his personal shit, including his cell phone. They removed the SIM card to make it stop. They also pointed out the handles that were attached to the walls of the treehouse that were not there before. They got the lady who owns the treehouse to say they weren't there in April. Defense is brandon tried to rape me that's her defense oh lady her attorney said which is a decent defense if it's like one stab wound or you shot a guy or so but 12 times and dumped on the side of the road is a whole

different scenario right that does not look it doesn't look good we'll put it that way with his dna fucking all over the place all over the place and also luring him in with all these text messages doesn't look good and then saying i'm gonna have a gift don't tell anybody where you are right so they they her attorneys say that she carried a knife wherever she went for protection and they said that you know when you see how long the driveway of her father's home was bit what was she would have to walk alone in the dark mornings to catch the school bus. So she would bring a knife in case somebody was hanging out on her father's property to assault her or something.

Um, they said that Julia, this is a defense, Julie and Brandon had sex in the tree house while they were in high school. And that's where Brandon must've thought they were gonna, you know, get into it again. Uh,

I, I, they said that days before the, met, before the 23rd, Julia had an abortion. Oh. She was fresh off an abortion. So they said it added to the trauma she felt when Brandon tried to rape her. So that's why she snapped. They said she saw a look in Brandon's eyes that she had never, never seen before.

That's why she snapped. They said she saw a look in Brandon's eyes that she had never, never seen before. And yeah, they said that. And right. Julia said she begged him to stop, but he wouldn't stop. And she also said at first they were kissing, but she received a text from her boyfriend and that made her feel bad about kissing. So that's why she stopped. She didn't want to do it anymore.

Yeah. So she said that he had the knife at first. He was going to rape her at knife point, but she got the knife away and started stabbing him. Okay. You know, she got the knife. Okay. Yeah, desperation for him not to get the knife back. I stabbed the shit out of him. Well, he's an aggressive rapist with a knife, but you can easily get it from his hand and then attack him with it.

That's a terrible rapist. If you're a rapist that you can't even like overpower people with a knife, you should not be trying to rape people. By the way, never try to rape anyone anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying if you're a criminal professional rapist this is not the way to go about it she's a fucking monster because she's making actual uh victims like even more victims now yeah then there's a witness that said that she told her friend that she that gel wouldn't be that bad because she could work out and read holy shit She told them that before the death and then after the death too, which is quite interesting. She's a bad woman, man.

Yeah, it's interesting. A friend of hers comes on, a girlfriend comes on, and says that they had once had a sexual encounter and that she was the one who introduced Julia to the practice of collecting quote wet specimens. What is that? That's not just, that's not girl on girl action either, by the way.

That's injecting dead animals with chemicals so they could keep their bodies preserved in jars. Wet specimens. Which just sounds gross. Yeah, it sounds grosser than it is but it's yeah so like embalm them with something with something and people are into bones and shit like that and that's we're not saying that makes you a murderer uh but when you add it all up and then you actually kill somebody it doesn't look good that's the problem here yeah you better not

murder anybody yeah she also an entry that she wrote she wrote an entry saying she enjoyed her this is julia she enjoyed her relationship with brandon because she could treat him rudely or nicely and he would keep talking to her she said sometimes i purposely don't contact him to see how long he will go before messaging me. It's great. What a dick. Then she's the dick. Then she said it's nearly a kismesis. Now, do you know what that is? No, that is a urban dictionary word here.

It's a mashup between the words kismet and nemesis. Oh, it's like a perfect. Yes. Perfect. Anti me. i don't know what the again urban dictionary says so together a kismesis or plural as in a pair of kismesis after taking the pearl of nemesis is your fated rival or even some would say your serendipitous rival kismetitude is also sometimes called black romance or cali caliginous romance i guess a caligula i don't know what the fuck um no because that's kelly never mind um i go calid

that means misty dim obscure or dark in that it's dark and hateful so oh my god so that's what it is this hateful thing i hate that she has she knows what this is yeah yeah she's looked this up and she's into it so why do i hate him so much why do i hate him but still want to fuck with him yeah so she testifies and she says that you know um that he raped her and yeah she said she initially intended to have sex with him but a text message from her boyfriend made her rethink things and um so she said she wouldn't have had sex with him her lawyer said she wouldn't have sex with him because she just had an abortion but then she says in her testimony on the stand i planned on having sex with him okay okay so different ways of having sex i suppose so yes that's true she could mean

something else but it sounds like they mean, we don't know. Anyway, maybe it's anal. We have no idea. All right. It could be just a blowjob. Yeah. So they said that they were going to hang out at the treehouse. She went to Westminster.

He did to buy some vodka. They drank, smoked some weed, walked two or three minutes through the wooded property to the treehouse. They started listening to music and talking and drinking and smoking. She said he leaned in, started to touch her leg. She got a text message at that moment from her boyfriend that made her rethink what she was doing. She said, I wanted to slow it down. My boyfriend had been really sick that weekend.

He wasn't, as we know. She didn't even have to say that. Easily checkable facts. That's what I mean. And didn't even have to say that. Easily checkable facts. That's what I mean. And didn't even need to be said. Nope. Didn't even need to be said. Doesn't change anything.

She just likes to lie. She said that weekend, and I think it was really a wake-up call. She could have just said it was a wake-up call, but I didn't want to get on my boyfriend. That would have sounded believable. He needed me. I thought I would end it and then go back and hang out with my boyfriend. I thought I would end it and then go back and hang out with my boyfriend. But then she said that he kept attacking her and forcefully kissing her and pressing her into the wall.

And she tried to get him to stop and he wouldn't stop. And, you know, she describes that. Yeah. And she described she said that he put his fingers in her and it hurt and she kept screaming at him to stop. And then there was a knife and then she had a knife too and he had a knife and she said that she had a knife clipped to her right hip. Now there's two knives involved

before there was one. Was even. She said that she'd been carrying a knife since high school. She said he just wasn't stopping and I pulled the knife out and she said it was just fear. I wasn't thinking anything.

I wanted him to stop. I wanted to get away. So she said she pushed him back, closed her eyes, and dropped the knife and jumped out of the treehouse. She said, I didn't want to see it. I didn't want to see anything. He has 12 huge, deep stab wounds on his chest. I closed my eyes, and then I dropped the knife. Where's the 12 stab wounds?

She acted like she just stabbed him once to get him away and ran away with the knife falling going oh my god i had to fight him off but instead he was eviscerated and then and the knife wounds were delivered while he was on the ground flat someone was doing it from directly above so none of that makes any fucking sense whatsoever so she said that her shirt and pants were open and she held them shut. She hid somewhere for 20 to 40 minutes before going back into the treehouse where she could still hear music playing from her phone. And she looked for her father, but he wasn't there. So she changed clothes, hopped in her Prius and drove to her boyfriend's house. She said, come and help me.

So they went back to the treehouse. She said he was lying. Brandon was lying face down, face down, lying face down, facing the door. I touched his shoulder and he didn't move. There was blood on the blanket and in the treehouse. And that's the blanket he was later found wrapped in. And they said, if you called the did you call the police at any time during that? She said, no, it was a couple of things. I mean,

more than anything, I didn't want to acknowledge what happened. I didn't think I could just tell anyone. I didn't think they would believe me either. So I was in denial. I just wanted to make it all go away. So she got trash bags and popped the SIM card out. You know, you cover up a murder that you pop in SIM cards out. Right. But when they asked her about this and she denied any knowledge of it, then they told her that they know that something happened. Then she's like, yeah, he said we were going to do a bunch of coke and he left. And then I haven't seen him since. Why so many stories if this is the answer? That's what I mean.

And then they said with that cross exam, they said, what about your insatiable curiosity to kill a person? She said, I wrote that a long time ago. It's not that insatiable anymore. Yeah, so she said she would have. It's insatiable. It's insatiable. Then they got a person from Planned Parenthood where she, okay, she brought a lunchbox to Planned Parenthood with her and tried to bribe the employees there with $100 to let her take the fetus home in a lunchbox.

What? Yeah, like a Fraggle Rock lunchbox. Her fetus? Yeah. I'm going to have an abortion right now. Let me keep it. No, lady. And take it home with me in a lunchbox.

Talking about. She called the day of the. There was a note that she wrote that called the day of the abortion exciting and mentioned the hundred dollars. Oh, my God. She told a friend, like, I don't know if she got pregnant. I don't know what happened here. This is she's got some issues, though. Yeah.

You know, it's let's just say that. And they bring up all of the other things, too. Also, she talked about robbing a grave in a document as well. Oh, Jesus. On the stand, she just said she took bones from an abandoned crypt. She didn't rob a grave. Oh, God. That lady, that's grave robbing.

It is really fucking weird here. We'll just say that. So in the closings, the defense said that the state is trying to prosecute her as a, quote, dirty girl and a weird girl. Yeah. They said they're trying to bring in references to her being a dominatrix and that being a business of hers and her having blood and knives and dead animals she keeps in jars and things like that none of these things and yeah she engages in kinky dominatrix sex so why are they doing that they said quote very simple because she's the dirty girl and if she's the dirty girl you can't believe her and she can't possibly be a rape

victim the commonwealth says she's weird. That makes her a murderer. But there's absolutely no proof that makes that makes her a murderer. I completely agree with that. The only thing that makes her a murderer is that there's 12 fucking vertical stab wounds on him and brand new restraints in the fucking thing. Her story doesn't match what happened to the man. And she's admitting that she did this to him. Yes. And the story changed a ton.

And she only went to he tried to rape me at trial. That never came up before that. That would, you know. So they said also the defense attorney says the treehouse itself, I would suggest to you, not the best place to plan a murder. Yeah. Yeah. I would say so. Prosecution says there's a lot of evidence here asking for a first degree murder.

They said the defendant, by her own admission, lied and lied and lied until she got arrested. Verdict comes in guilty of second degree murder. Second degree, not first. Oh. Which is wild because if you think it's second, then you think it's first. It's either self-defense or first-degree murder. There's nothing in between. It was either a premeditated thing or he tried to rape her and she fought him off.

There's no second degree. Second degree is a planned murder still. Or it's a murder still. Right. Okay. All right. Yeah. So the prosecutor said, you're always looking for the first-degree conviction.

We assume the evidence was as it is, but you must respect the jury's decision. Sentencing, you, ma'am, may fuck off life in prison with parole. Really? Eligible for parole in 25 years. Wow. Now, they wait till after all of that, they finally indict her boyfriend, John Lind, for conveying a human body, accessory after the fact to murder, misleading a grand jury, and perjury. Yeah. So he can get up to two and a half to seven years in jail.

So his trial is scheduled to be going on as we speak, like next week. It's supposed to start. It's scheduled to. I don't know if it will or not, but shit gets delayed a lot. But his trial is supposed to start for that. Now, in prison, she's doing art and selling it now. Stop it. Here's one of her paintings that's sold out for $100 and plus shipping.

Open your eyes and it's like fucking monster flowers that would kill people. Yeah, they look like yeah they look like uh venus fly traps with eyeballs in them that one's sold out too yeah and then also you can get the chakra alien original prison oh my god a hundred dollars this is i don't like this at all she shouldn't be able to do this it's on regular size paper with colored pencils that's what she's yeah she's selling these fucking things she shouldn't be able to do this. It's on regular-sized paper with colored pencils. Yeah. That's what she's... Yeah, she's selling these fucking things. She shouldn't be allowed to do that.

She is currently at the Framingham Jail in Framingham, Massachusetts. Eligible for parole at some point, 25 years from now. And there is a website called Justice for, number four, Brandon Chiklis. For you? Yeah, for you. Justice for number four, Brandon Chiklis. For you? Yeah, for you. Justice for you. No, Justice for Brandon Chiklis is a Facebook page as well. So if you want to show up there.

Poor kid. They give updates about the trial and everything like that. Terrible fucking story. God, she's a dick. She's a dick. Yeah, that's a weird, gross, whole thing is gross. Nobody, I'm sorry. If you have vials of people's blood i am

suspicious of you yeah you're immediately yeah something weird about that i'm just not like i said not trying to be judgmental nothing to do with your sexual shit that's fucking weird to have blood around it's just weird jesus christ man if you like that show tell everybody about it tell the world about it give the show a review give us five stars on whatever app you're listening on tell your friends share the social media shit that helps a lot it really does help keep the show cranking going and full of listeners so that's fun stuff you also want to head over to shut up and give me murder.com get your tickets for live shows they're selling out fast so get them right now also get your tickets for very soon the virtual live show will go on sale. 420, baby. We can't

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