Small Town Murder - #463 - A Psychosexually Disturbed Pig Man - Richmond, Vermont

Episode Date: February 8, 2024

This week, in Richmond, Vermont, a terrible person, keeps doing absolutely terrible things, but repeatedly slips through the legal cracks. His actions are as disgusting as they could be, and it all ends up in a ridiculously cruel murder, of a very innocent person. He jokes about the murder, but refuses to admit it. Will he slip the cracks, one more time??Along the way, we find out that pizza places like to use the word "Papa" in their names, that there are some things you just can't blame on your childhood, and sometimes, you absolutely can tell a man's future, from his past!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. What if you married the love of your life and then stood by them as they developed 21 new identities? What would you do? This Is Actually Happening is a weekly podcast that features extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. Listen to the newest season of This Is Actually Happening on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Richmond, Vermont, a terrible person does so many terrible things but slips through the legal cracks until he

finally commits a most vile crime that he might not be able to get himself out of. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigrogallo i'm here with my co-host i'm jimmy wissman thank you folks so much for joining us today on another insane episode of small town murder we will not let you down this week this is another whoo boy yeah there's there's

sometimes we have the ones where somebody like you you know, last week we had the wife swap episode where that kid seemed like fine. He's playing bluegrass music and talking about Jesus. And the next thing you know, he's butchering the family. It's like it's insane. You have that just pops out of nowhere. Then you have this episode and ones like this where it's just an awful person that does awful things for their entire awful life until somebody puts them in a place where it's impossible to do any more awful things well at least at least to the outside world yeah so it's it's a lot so we'll check all that out but before we get to that just want to say

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Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And, of course, listen to Crime and Sports while you're out there. And, of course, your stupid opinions. Our new podcast, which is goddamn hilarious. Listen to that every Monday morning as well. That said, disclaimer, it's a comedy show. It is. We're comedians.

We're going to tell jokes. That's not saying that we made stuff up to make it funny or anything. It's 100% true. Unfortunately, the stories couldn't be more true. We wish we were making this stuff up, and we're not, though. So that's how that goes. What we do, though, is we go out of our way to not make fun of the victims or the victims' families.

Right. Why is that, James? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. That's how that goes. So if that sounds good to you, you're going to hear wild stories

every damn week, twice a week. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, maybe you won't like the show. I don't know. Maybe you will, though. Either way, no bitching later. I think it's time give it a chance i think it's time everybody now to sit back let's all clear the lungs here arms to the sky and let's all shout

let's do this everyone what. What do you say? Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. All right, we're going all the way up to Vermont this week. Okay. Yes, Vermont. And this is in northwestern Vermont. So kind of way up there by Canada

and, you know, upper New York over there. It's in that region. This is syrup country. Oh, boy. Yeah, upper New York over there, it's in that region. This is syrup country. Oh, boy. Yeah, this is a pretty rural area, except that Burlington is also up here, which is the biggest city. But once you get outside of a city, and when you think of a city, it's not the same in Vermont as you're thinking of somewhere else, too. Vermont's just a different kind of place. It's fascinating.

Yeah, it's really weird it's like a giant like woodsy resort it's a very you know what i mean like it's got the resorts are fucking gorgeous they're nice yeah and then there's also like it's it's also half deliverance though that's the other part of it because it's like oh god it's like the woods i could see that yeah like super troopers was based in vermont you know what i mean so that tells you a lot it's just a lot of weird stuff going on up there. But beautiful, beautiful country. I've been to Woodstock.

That place is fantastic. Vermont? Uh-huh. They have a Woodstock in Vermont, too? They got a Woodstock Vermont. Interesting. That must be very confusing for people. It is entirely different from that hippie version we've seen in newspapers.

That's not even in Woodstock. No? No. The Woodstock didn't take place in Woodstock.'s not even in Woodstock. No? No. The Woodstock didn't take place in Woodstock. It's nowhere near Woodstock. Hilarious. Woodstock took place in Bethel, which is nowhere near there. Woodstock, the town, you go there, it's all hippie-ish. People will say, where's the concert?

It was like, I don't know, an hour over there? Forty miles that way? That's where it was. Woodstock, Vermont is legit. It's very rich people with beautiful things interesting it's just gorgeous

so this is I can't afford it no this is 17 minutes so 20 minutes or so to Burlington so right outside there about a half hour

to Montpelier which is the capital of the state as a matter of fact and then two hours and 15 minutes to Townshend which was our last

vermont episode episode 408 never saw that coming all the vermont ones are weird so you want to check that out and town shend will come up or town's end whatever it was that'll come up this episode because our guy ends up uh doing some stuff there too this is in chittenden county chittenden uh area code 802. Little bit of history here. The first attempt at a settlement in this area was in 1775. And then what? It didn't stick, probably.

And it didn't. There's guys named Amos Brownson and John Chamberlain. They came in and they were like, we're going to do this. We're going to settle this bitch. And then they abandoned that in the fall of the same year. So it lasted a couple months. It gets cold up here. Boy, it gets cold around October.

It's going to get worse. They came back in the spring of 1784. So nine years later, they're like, want to give it another run? That was after the Revolutionary War, too, because the war was going on after that. And it was incorporated in 1794, the war was going on after that so and it was incorporated in 1794 the town was and um they had water mills and shit like that industries began popping up in the 1800s they manufactured these are all things that nobody uses anymore really is what they manufacture so that's why there's no manufacturing now they manufactured wagons, harnesses, tinware, brass, cabinet work, and, quote, woodenware.

Yeah, they manufactured the 1780s. They manufactured 1835 is what they manufactured. That's it. That's it, exactly. After that, boy, is this place obsolete. Otherwise, it's just the Amish coming to them for things. This place obsolete. Otherwise, it's just the Amish coming to them for things.

So it's noted for the round church, which is a 16 sided meeting house. They put up in 1812, 16 sided. And you can see the sides very clearly from the outside. But apparently inside it feels rounder. That's why they call it the round. Yeah. So today it's open to the public and people go to watch and look at it and sit in there. Basically, it was a church for a long time and all that. There was a public health controversy here in 2022.

Oh, the town's water superintendent had to resign after he admitted that he had, without notifying city officials, lowered the water's fluoride levels, fluoridation levels. We didn't have enough? To less than half the recommended by state to protect health. So he confessed that he had done so since 2011 without seeking permission, and they immediately voted to restore everything up to public health you know recommendations and he quit did he say why who knows he's probably a conspiracy theorist or something i don't know who knows so here's reviews of the town because we've never been there we don't know never here's five stars let's find out what they think here richmond is a small family oriented town we hear

that should be the opening of every one of these. It's always, it's a small, family-oriented town. We get it. It's about a half hour south of the largest city in Vermont. The residents know their neighbors and always have a cup of sugar that can be borrowed. Is that right? Ain't that quaint. That's weird. Yeah.

I get what they're saying, but that sounds weird. Yeah, you're always welcome to have a cup of sugar at my house. Bring over a cup with a cow on it, you know what I mean? One of those, like a cow face on the front. Oh, there's a measuring cup that's exactly one cup on everybody's front step, just in case you need it. It's my sugar borrowing cup. Get it all ready. It's far from a vacation spot, but if you're looking for a place to move to, it can't be beat.

Oh. So apparently they're looking for people here. Four stars. Beautiful town. You can have country living, but with a busy and thriving downtown area. Okay. Schools are good. Local amenities include a decent grocery store.

Not a great one. Decent. Local ski area. Yes, skiing is huge in Vermont. And Winooski River. Commute time to Burlington is 25 to 30 minutes. Williston is only seven miles. Oh, thank fuck.

Well, if Williston's close by. Has anyone that's listening who's not from Vermont ever heard of Williston? Never. Never. Why would you put that? But it's right there, James. It's only seven miles away. The other shit small town next to us. The other one you never heard of Williston? Never. Never. Why would you put that? But it's right there, James. It's only seven miles away. The other shit small town next to us.

The other one you never heard of. Wow. Airport not far. That's good. Fantastic place to raise a family. Not the place to be if you're looking for nightlife, but Burlington has plenty. Oh, I'm sure it's just rocking. Three stars.

shorts just right there rocking uh three three stars give or take most places don't last long in this area especially if their food is too expensive and the portion sizes are small most people prefer to make their own food as locally grown food is abundant here that's the town that's that person just we got farms we don't eat out we got farms restaurants don't last long unless you give a like a pile of slop and then and there's no way there's direct flights from burlington no no no no burlington is like when we were looking around in maine and we're like oh from banger you can connect anywhere i think it's okay or portland that's a connector yeah from burlington you can go to new york and then you can fly to where you want from there philly or boston or whatever

it's probably Philly. I'll bet it's Philly. Probably. Because Boston doesn't even fucking go anywhere. No, Boston's awful for connections and direct flights. That is crazy how nowhere it goes. Boston and Phoenix is the same way. Phoenix and Boston.

Yeah, for being cities that are in places that people go. Top ten cities in the country. Our airport doesn't fucking go anywhere. You got to stop in Salt Lake if you want to go anywhere. Great. You're going to stop in fucking Texas and get stranded there for three days. Yeah, enjoy being in Dallas as Jimmy has. Here's one star.

There really aren't any bars in Richmond except for the pizza place Papa McKee's. Papa McKee's is the happening joint let's unpack this first of all the only bar in town is a pizza place which not known for their bars and second of all their pizza place is papa irish guy which is not what you want from your pizza either oh mckee you must make a great pizza why is it always papa something i don't know he's probably just trying to glom on to papa john's mama and papa yeah mama well mama makes sense because that that you hear mama something you hear oh mom's coming with the big italian mom with a big food mama makes good food papa doesn't make good food no papa mckee sounds like he beats his children

and yeah he's like a corrupt town police chief who beats chief mckee beats his children papa says open the freezer and put something in the microwave that's what papa says this papa don't preach i'll tell you that much uh the grocery store does spirit tastings and wine tastings sometimes oh that's fun this guy's like here's all the places you could find booze in town the pizza place with the pizza're shithoused with a pizza? Or fucking grapes. Put like a hat on and keep coming back for more samples. Put some sunglasses on, go back through the line again. You can get a buzz.

Get a fake mustache and head on down and get a glass of wine. You can catch a buzz at the grocery store if you have to. Population of this town, 4,142. So not a huge place, not big at all. Male, female, few more males than females, actually, which is the opposite of what it usually is. Median age here is older than the average here. It's 45.2. It's normally about 37 in the rest of the country.

60% married, low divorce rate, not a lot of people single with children. You get what we're getting at here it's a there it is family type place uh race of this town pretty uh basic here 95.3 percent white which it's vermont there is yeah it's just white people in vermont 0.0 percent black not a black person in town yeah 2.2 percent asian 0.4% Hispanic. This is very Vermont. This is Vermont. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Religion here, 39% religious in this town.

The highest amount is going to be, of course, Catholic, because as we know, Catholics are the Baptists of the North. 1% Jewish. Holy shit. Hey! Wow, we get to sing for once. Let's do it. Look at this. Hava Nagila. Hava Nagila. jewish holy shit wow we get to sing for once let's do it this i don't know the words hey there we go all right uh in this county chittenden county last election 75.8 percent voted democrat Democrat. Twenty one point two percent Republican. Three percent independent.

The unemployment rate here is insanely low. Like actually like bad low because there's not enough people. Two point two percent, which is that's fucking nothing. That's nothing. Yeah. Wow. Everybody's working. That's.

Yeah. Usually, though. But like four is healthy for like because that way they're still that's even pushing to where we're like hey there's not going to be people we need for jobs over here like actually like five percent is a good unemployment rate that works forever not for those five percent but for everybody else though it works everybody in and out of the system 2.2 not good here mathematically that's how it works median household income here is high also 105 625 a year which is that's vermont well over the national average yeah people fucking figure it out you're gonna pay for it too

to live in this beautiful area cost of living here uh 100 is average here it's 112 okay median home cost here 447 400 bucks,400. That is expensive. That is very expensive. But you know what? If you've stashed away a bunch of maple syrup money and you are ready to make a run at it, we have for you the Richmond, Vermont Real Estate Report. The average two-bedroom rental here goes for about $1,440 a month. So that's higher than the national average.

Here's a bargain for you, I guess, if you want to consider it that way. It's a three-bedroom, one-bath, 924-foot trailer. So it's a trailer. Looks like it's in a trailer park-ish. But like a nicer trailer park. Okay, like a patio? Yeah, like they're landscaped. You know what I mean?

You know, there's like the nicer ones. It's one of the nice ones. Definitive ends to lots that are all manicured landscaping. Like there's nicer ones in Phoenix that are like the old people ones. You know what I mean? They're kept nice. It's one of those. The outside could use some help it looks like shit on the outside inside is clean but you know just very outdated it just looks like it's a trailer from the 80s basically but not terrible uh for what the price is compared to everything else 89 000 bucks for it yeah that's

just a family trying to sell off grandma's ship that's it yeah she died there yeah it's the dead grandma special of the week everybody there it is here is uh three bedroom one bath 1206 foot square foot house it's actually a house it's not great but it's not wonderful inside the colors you're gonna need to. Like, there's one room's like half purple, half red. One's like, it looks like a bunch of rival high schools painted these rooms. Really? You're like, paint our colors in the third bedroom. Get that golden blue going.

Yeah, really weird floors. I don't even know what they're made of. Just weird. They're like black with marks all over them. I don't know what the hell they're even made out of. Very weird floors. 319,000 bucks for that. For a lot of work. A lot of work. You're going to have to put a lot in. And then if you don't want to have a lot of work here, four bedroom,

three bath, 2,236 square feet. This is on 10 acres. Hell yes! So this is nice. It's in Jericho, which is right nearby, as we'll find out. It's a little farmhouse. It's not even that little. It is nice. It's in Jericho, which is right nearby, as we'll find out. It's a little farmhouse. It's not even that little. It's nice.

It's got really nice built-in cabinets in the dining room. Old school charm, basically. Beautiful stuff. Exposed beams. Good shit. $899,000 for that, though. But for 10 acres. That's incredible.

For 10 acres, that's not bad. In Vermont. In upper Vermont there there it's pretty so things to do here what are you gonna do when you get here besides go to papa mckee's and oh you're gonna be outdoorsy a lot get yourself some shit here uh how about the richmond harvest festival yeah yeah that's what's going on yeah you're gonna you're gonna walk around and smell things that are yeah appleyy. There's livestock there. Livestock.

Definitely some apple cider. I'm feeling maple things. Enjoy a local lunch, delicious desserts, live music, a silent auction, and a shop from local vendors. What can you get there? Honey, maple syrup, local meat, cheese, eggs, fish, and veggies. An actual market. An actual market. An actual market. All the proceeds benefit the farm-to-school program, helping them purchase local food and provide farm food and nutrition education in classrooms.

So they feed their kids up there actual local produce and shit. It's not just like theisco truck pulls up and gives you a shitload of frozen burger patties and that's that my daughter told me that they have bosco sticks at school and that everybody loves them what the fuck is that i said she told me what it was it's prison food it's a stick with like it's like a bread stick with shit inside it's like what you would bosco sticks sounds like what you. You'd like drop those in an area of people that have been impoverished. Slide them through a fucking slot in a metal door.

There you go. Unbelievable. No lunch today. You get a Bosco. I'd much rather have this shit. This sounds wonderful. This is pumpkin soup they have. This is the lunch menu.

Pumpkin soup with cheddar rosemary focaccia bread. What? Bacon mac and cheese with a cornbread crust. Count me the fuck in on that. Hell yeah. I love a bacon mac and cheese. Roasted vegetable quinoa with a maple ginger dressing and mini apple cinnamon cakes, which I'm allergic to. And they sound so good and I want to eat them, but I can't.

Everything but the quinoa sounds magical. That sounds magical. That sounds great, and you can do activities, including grinding corn. Ever wanted to grind up some corn, Jimmy? Well, here's the time to do it. Bike-powered smoothies. I don't know what the fuck that means. I guess you pedal, and that's how the blenders work. You pedal and make it turn?

I don't know. Make pizza. Just make pizza. Okayers work. You pedal and make it turn. I don't know. Make pizza. Just make pizza. Okay, yeah. And crafts and much more. It's very hands-on. Yeah, it's a farmy type. Keep you busy.

Yeah, it sounds nice. Yeah, you go home with some dirty hands. That's okay. Earn your keep. And it's free. The lunch I think you have to pay for, but everything else is free. Well, you got to work for it. You got to work for it.

Yeah, you got to go muck a stall to get that. Here is also RUT Fest, R-U-T in capital letters, and then Fest. It's the Richmond Ultra Trail Festival. Okay. A weekend devoted to running and hiking local trails. Oh. It's a 36-hour race that includes two different three- to four-mile trail loops and gorgeous views of Camel's Hump and Mount Mansfield.

And you can just run them on repeat. And they said it's going to be a low-key, relaxed adventure run for the community and not a competition. Stupid. Not a competition. Just run around. we can do this any day then and the entry fee is donation based so whatever you feel like paying okay all right that that's that um and you run around apparently they said thinking of running 100 miles we have sweet

buckles made that you can purchase after you finish purchase you do it so if you run 100 miles then you're allowed to buy something. You can then buy a commemorative coin for it. Wow. Buckle. Buckle. Here's your buckle. Here is crime rate in this town, besides that horseshit. Crime rate, property crime is half of the national average here.

So that's nice. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime. Under one third of the national average. So safe. That is really safe. I mean, you should be able to just walk around with your tits hanging out and not expect to be bothered here. The lack of culture is driving me bananas, though. Jimmy, there's Papa McKee's.

You can get good Irish pizza. That's what you want. Not a bit of flavor in that day of festival. No, that is not a lot there. Mac and cheese. That's the best he got. That's pretty much how it's going to go there, I feel like. That said, let's talk about some murder.

You want flavor, Jimmy? Yeah. I got some flavor for you. This town's going to drive me to murder. This town drove someone crazy here. Let's find out about Edwin Town, with an E. Yeah. Edwin A. Town Jr.

Now, I've seen him listed as Junior multiple times. I've also seen him listed as the third a couple of times. Oh. Not sure what it it is but everyone calls him junior there ed junior and shit so that's okay it's ed we're going with ed now ed's born in 1952 okay and he lived he grew up in connecticut from what i understand here um connecticut vermont they moved around a lot his family a lot of people that live in new hampshire vermont that area are from connecticut because connecticut's so fucking expensive they just move to the closest place it looks similar

yeah yeah it's nice it's still nice i can visit my mom she's close by yeah it's a couple hours to drive it's not bad that's everything in the northeast is drivable which is all right there it's a nice thing about living up here so uh ed has depression from a young age i get it yeah now i don't know if it's depression as far as it just was there in his brain born with it or if his life as a child like it makes sense you go yeah that kid would be depressed how the hell wouldn't you be when you hear about it he grows up he has a lot of problems first of all he'll blame him on his mother in court later but he's got some some issues there he grew up very poor like dirt poor and moving around a lot too they're that's i mean they went from connecticut to here to there always moving around

which does suck as a kid i lived in a million different places and it sucked and they were all within the same area for the most part and it still sucked so it's not easy to go different states all the time's got to really suck um his father was a manual laborer just got whatever entry-level labor job he could and worked to try to support people here uh they had seven children all together I don't know Ed's birth rank in those, but he's definitely, I mean, his parents are horny. We know that much. That's for sure. Seven children, manual labor trying to support this, all of this. Not easy.

And every time he fucks that woman, he has another kid. Another kid. And he's like, oh, Jesus, that's more overtime. Yeah. That's going to suck. Of the hardest shit on the planet jesus now his mother is known wherever they go and is known all throughout the family as a quote this is from court documents a quote sexually promiscuous woman who spent months away from home and eventually left the family when town was in

the ninth grade. So mom would like get a new boyfriend and disappear for a couple of months and then pop back up again when that didn't work out. But his dad's senior were positive as the father of all these kids. That's I don't know. He doesn't know. The fuck knows. Yeah.

Back then they have DNA test in 1952. If it came out of your wife, it's yours. That's it. That's all there is to it at that point. If you're married to her, that's your kid. That's your support in that kid. Yeah. Doesn't look like you.

Tough shit. Maybe she's. Don't know what to tell you. Yeah. She's got a grandfather, it looks like. And that's genetics. Don't worry about it. So then she leaves when he's ninth grade.

So that's 14-ish. So that's not great. When his mom leaves, he drops out of school as well. Yeah, drops out of school and starts going to work with his father. Perfect. Yeah, so this is like 1966, 1967. Yep. He drops out of school and is doing manual labor with his father and spends the next

couple years of his teenage life so you know normally when you're in the ninth and tenth grade and you're farting around and you're you know looking at girls and you're whatever the fuck you're trying to do he's instead working on a pig and chicken farms in rhode island and connecticut yeah drinking black coffee and uh making no money, but as best as he can. And then drinking Thunderbird after work. That's not good. For sure. Yeah.

And breaking his fucking back. Oh, it's hard work. And the living conditions were not great either because they were like hands that lived on the farm. So they were given shit. hands that lived on the farm so they were given shit uh a psychiatrist later says quote he was almost living at the same level as the pigs as i understand it oh for heaven's sake yeah they basically slept with the pigs that was how it worked so it's buried in the in the stall too to eat not terrific childhood let's just say for this guy um and a lot of it is he can't help that he can't help that you know

your parents have seven kids and they have no money and his mom runs away none of that can be helped by a child especially when there's seven kids people barely even know who you are with seven kids i would think which one are you again i would say that yeah if i had seven kids i'd be like i i don't know are you the fucking are you the fourth or the fifth i don't remember your names i'm told you remember but but I don't know how. I don't know how. Yeah, it's too much. It's overwhelming, I would think.

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for possible criminal activity. The pair form an unlikely partnership to catch the killer, unearthing secrets that leave Ruth torn between her duty to the law, her religious convictions, and her very own family. But something more sinister than murder is afoot, and someone is watching Ruth.

With an all-star cast led by Emmy nominee Sanaa Lathan and Star Wars' Kelly Marie Tran, Chinook is available exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. So 1971 comes around, and this is when he's like 18 years old here. Okay. And there was, he had some problems here. Now his mom is back in the picture at some point.

She comes back into the picture. I don't know when how why whatever but she pops up and she is with him taking him to the doctor in 1971 and the doctor who examined him first he went to a doctor and then a psychiatrist after that yeah our psychologist one of the two but he was diagnosed with having a personality disorder. Which one? They don't really say. It's 1971. So they're like, he's kind of fucked up.

They just write that down. There's a disorder with his personality or something. A bit soft in the brain, I think they wrote back then. And then they just send you wherever. Not fun to talk to. Some tics. I don't know. So the doctor wanted him to be hospitalized for it. Oh.

So it was not a mild thing. It was something that was pretty, I would love to know what the precipitating event was to be like, he's fucked up, right? And the psychiatrist going, dude, totally. Yeah, he needs to be in a hospital. Except the mother refused to admit him to a hospital. And wouldn't take him. Like she said, well, I'm not taking him to a hospital except the mother refused to admit him to a hospital and wouldn't take him like she said well i'm not taking him to a hospital you know he's got to work at the pig farm in the morning or whatever so they were like well you know you got to take him for further trip treatment and she said no not going to do it and he said i'm not going to do it and that was that done so

over the next few years he gets married married and has three kids as well. With a personality defect? With all of this. A personality disorder, smelling like pig shit the whole deal. He finds a wife and impregnates her and has at least three times successful with that. So three kids now. They'll later get divorced, as we'll find out. Three kids now.

They'll later get divorced, as we'll find out. But I don't know how she stayed with him even the eight-ish years that she did, because let's find out about the 70s for Edwin here. Oh, boy. Ed had an eventful decade of the 1970s. In 1972, this is fucking insane, he abducted a 13-year- at gunpoint oh boy and raped her where a 13 year old girl that is what disturbing uh how old was he at that time this was stowe vermont so up in the ski area there is where he did it so there's 20 at this point 1920 something like that um he thought about killing her he even said to a psychiatrist like he was going to kill her yikes the plan was rape and kill that was the plan but he changed his

mind about killing her at some point okay yeah he got i know that when you have regular so i've never been involved in rape so i don't know that's got to be i don't know how you don't feel like a terrible person and go immediately fucking jump off a cliff after you're done doing that. Right. Yeah. After regular sex, you don't have a lot of motivation. After you come to, like, reality. Yeah.

Yeah. And look, I've been in relationships where it was certainly consensual, and I regretted directly after those. Oh, absolutely. And everyone has. Perfectly reasonable behavior that I had just done. And I still was like, ah, I probably shouldn't have fucked her again. Yeah, shouldn't have done that. Ladies, how many times have you gone, what did I do? Yeah.

How many times have you fucked your boyfriend and been like, ah, I was going to break up with him today? Yeah. Jesus, damn it. Fuck. Tomorrow, maybe. Yeah. So that's what he does and he he decides at the at the last

minute to just let her go and release her near her house okay she figured i don't know what the fuck he was thinking but he raped her but he definitely raped her um he is arrested for rape and charged with rape and of a child and is allowed to post bail. Wow. And then ran away. It's a different time. I would say. Yeah, that's a different time is a good way to put that.

He does. He posts bail and then he runs away. Okay. So no monitoring or anything like that. Nothing. Yes. So he apparently ran away to Rhode Island. Yeah. or anything like that. Nothing. Yes. So he apparently ran away to Rhode Island because in 1973, he's charged with a simple assault in Rhode Island.

What kind of simple assault? That's it is. That's the charge. Simple assault. Now, this is the days before the states had interconnected computers or anything like that. You could get arrested in one state and be wanted somewhere else and nobody would have any fucking idea you had to like check

individual states to find out so right they didn't know he was wanted for child rape in another state when he was arrested in rhode island so for that he then ran to florida away from the simple assault charge because he figured eventually they might connect that to Vermont. Yeah. Yeah. So he runs away to Florida, which is very nice. Um, in June of 1973, when he's in Florida, he picks up a couple that's hitchhiking.

Yeah. And holds the man at gunpoint and sexually assaults the woman. Wow. Yeah. This is now that's balls think about that yeah it's one thing for one of these guys to find some fucking lone woman and be like oh there's some easy prey but to get yeah a two people which is yeah i could you know more difficult to manage i would imagine you only have two hands you're certainly vulnerable uh there for a minute too and

have one of them be a guy which is usually the rapists don't usually fuck with guys because they want to assault women and they feel like they're stronger than women. So that's like some weird Zodiac shit. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's also hard enough to get a guy that'll watch you do it. And then to try to force a guy to do it, that's even harder, right? Fucking insane, dude. So he runs from that as well. watch you do it and then to try to force a guy to do it that's even harder right fucking insane dude so he runs from that as well um he gets ends up in tennessee after that think about that's a

long run this is a trail of like and so he's wanted for that in florida or yes okay so yeah he's wanted for that they They give a description. Everything. They know. They never caught him. It's his car he picks him up in. So, I mean, they give a description of the car. He just takes off from Florida. So, they have an active. They didn't, like, arrest him in Iran.

But we ever ran a law enforcement town or outfit without connecting it to other that's crazy that we did that it was impossible we didn't have computers what would you do every time you arrest somebody call everybody every police force in the country and tell them about it send out a teletype

you know how expensive that was back then yeah but holy shit it's crazy that we couldn't do that it was impossible it was just impossible to do so wow it's that's how ted bundy got away with it for so long so a lot of these so many and it's not even state to state it was county to county yeah it was next door just jurisdictions to jurisdiction they they would counties are in arkansas james a shitload yeah you could just go to the next one and rape and pillage and fucking go

to the next one and they go oh man we're looking for that guy if he ever comes back arizona has like 13 counties thank christ yeah that would that would make it a little easier but these some of these states have hundreds so many counties yeah look at like kansas there's a shitload of little square counties in there it's like four houses in one county. Yeah, four farms. So yeah, this is what I mean. He's just running from state to state doing something until he knows he's wanted and then he runs somewhere else.

Wow. So in Tennessee in May of 74, he is arrested again, this time charged with carrying a sawed-off shotgun, which you're not allowed to do. You shouldn't do that. And especially if you're wanted you're not allowed to do. You shouldn't do that. And especially if you're wanted in a bunch of places, you really shouldn't do that.

So at that point, he's like, well, can't stay in Tennessee. Got to run from here, too. He never sticks around. That's the other thing. No. You let him go. He's fucking running, period. Which, at this point, it's a successful strategy.

Sure is. For the last three years years he's been wanted in every state in the on the eastern seaboard he just keeps going and nobody cares so and he's he's an auto mechanic too so that makes it so easy you can work anywhere if you're an auto mechanic yeah i know how to fucking fix this that's it you're hired that's and if you're good at it holy fuck they'll hire you now and especially then they expected you to be a scumbag. They were like, I'm sure you're a scumbag. That's fine.

Can you fix this Buick or not? That's it. So he's arrested. So he takes off. He was going to go to Vermont, but then he was like, can't go there. I'm wanted like hardcore there. So can't do that. So he then went to New Hampshirepshire instead okay right next door

so i want to feel like i'm in vermont but not be yeah he is arrested there in 1975 for carrying a concealed weapon yeah that's fascinating you can't do that there this guy is an interesting fella he he just trouble this is every single year he's got problems imagine just not not just like working and living your life for one year yeah i mean you gotta figure on he knows he he sucks right yeah he's gotta know he's gotta know and these are only the things that were reported that he was caught for that's what we know about what the fuck he's doing imagine how many fuck he's doing. Imagine how many people he's raping, kidnapping, that just don't report it.

Because back then, a lot of people- He's robbed a gas station, right? I'm sure he has. And also, back then, people- Nowadays, the rate of reporting for sexual assault is super low. Imagine what it was back then- Forget it. When they would literally put a woman on the stand and be like what were you wearing were your tits look good that day yeah like they could ask them like

very pointed questions like that and let me ask you this were your nipples poking poking your shirt you know how they do because i mean ladies and gentlemen of the jury actually gentlemen of the jury obviously we understand what happens when that happens. Like, that's how it was back in the early 70s. How close to menstruation were you? Could we smell it? Yeah. If you were in the woods, would wolves know you were there? Perhaps a bear.

Perhaps a bear. So he's arrested there in New Hampshire, like I said, carrying a concealed weapon. During all of that, he's told the police that he only felt safe when he had a pistol on him. I mean, yeah. Only felt safe. So he's always going to have one, and he never has the correct legal way to do it. Yeah, that's the answer. I mean, it's fine if that's the way you feel safe, but take care of the paperwork, man.

You got to do the paperwork, and you can't have a sawed-off shotgun. No. Keep it within the legal parameters, and fine, whatever whatever and then you won't get arrested and then you're great so in july of 1976 he is driving to work in the morning this is crazy driving to work when most people are glassy-eyed and looks just trying to get there he decided to abduct and sexually assault a woman at gunpoint. On the way to work? On the way to work. What's in your Dunkins? Wow, that is remarkable.

So he approached the woman three different times asking her if she wanted a ride. She declined. He basically pulled up like Cheech and up in smoke and was like, you need a ride? But when they said no, Cheech just didn't go, eh, you know, whatever, and then go find Chong on the side of the road. He kept coming back for more. He'd circle the block? Yeah, he'd come back again. Sure you don't need a ride now.

Sure you don't need a ride. I'm still in the area. Then he comes back a fourth time. This time he points a gun at her and says get in the fucking car yeah so it went from do you need a ride to you're getting a ride right now have a ride yeah he drove her to an isolated location forced her out of the car at gunpoint forced forced her into the woods and raped her yeah then he drove to another location pulled her back in the car drove to another location in the woods and told her he was going to kill her oh boy yes then he sexually

assaulted her again yeah instead so she ended up escaping from him uh later on when he stopped the car at some point she got out of the car and took off and there was people there and she got away. So, at that point he is arrested for that. And he's going to be in 1976 convicted of sexual assault and kidnapping

in New Hampshire. Great. So that should put him away for a good amount especially with his previous record. That's 20 years. He's sentenced to 5 to 10 So that should put him away for a good amount, especially with his previous record. Yeah, that's 20 years. Yep. No, he's sentenced to five to 10 years in the state prison. Live free or die. Wow.

That is some that's that's a little bit too free, I would say, to live as a rapist doing fun. And he did it almost murderers. Yeah. Gunpoint. That's I don't think he was gonna let her go probably not she escaped i don't think he was because he found out last time he let him go they tell on you so he is sentenced there the minimum release date for him was summer 1979

so he could get out he could get out in three yeah that's his lowest. So in April of 77, his case is reviewed for transfer to a minimum security facility. Yeah. You know, because who's worse than this guy that you have? Who do you have in maximum? Is it all murderers? Right, right. I bet you there's not that many murderers in New Hampshire to fill up a maximum unit. If a man kidnaps a woman and rapes her in one location, takes her to another, rapes her again, threatens to kill her, and the only reason she's alive to our understanding is because she ran. Yes.

Three years minimum. Who's worse? Who the fuck's in maximum then is what I'm getting at. If you say who belongs in maximum security prison? You go, murderers, rapists, one and two, right? Yeah, yeah. Those two right there. And terrorists that are multiple rapists.

Yeah, then you could pick some. Yeah, he's a rape terrorist. Then you could pick out some other people maybe that you would like in there. But top of the list is fucking gunpoint rapists i'm gonna go i want them in maximum let's make sure we hang on to them for a while so the chief of the mental health unit there recommended the transfer okay yeah he said quote he has he is seen meaning ed is seen as being of low average intelligence who responds to common basic human needs. They're saying he's so dumb he just responds to whatever he can be doing.

When his dick's hard, he has to do what he has to do. Whatever he's doing. He puts food in it. If his stomach growls, he'll just drop shit and walk over and get a hamburger, I guess. He just has no control. Like an animal, basically, they said he is. Like a dog he's basic basic needs the described sexual episode appears to be more the response to one of these basic needs rather than the act of any criminal are you out of your basic need to rape

yeah he used a gun gun and then it's your basic need to rape again right you just came what the fuck are you doing that's not a basic human need that's a sick fuck who enjoys this shit there's no other and i i understand the defense as much as the next guy but that seems a bit far-fetched don't doesn't it yeah and and if he's too low intelligence or whatever to understand that that is not a basic need need you can meet without you know a consent yeah and violence then what the fuck you know what i mean what are we doing jesus and he's married at this point too yeah he knows where it's at he knows yeah he got married he has children for christ's sake he knows how and where. Wow.

This is a good continuation here. It is believed that he is the type of individual who learns by experience and profits by the consequences of his behavior. So he learns by experience. So then he learned that if you do this and you get arrested and caught, then you go to prison. So we feel like we've made him understand now that that's what he's saying. He's he's so low intelligence. He just responds to basic human needs. But but now that we've told him and shown him.

Yeah. He knows the right way. Well, yeah. He learns by experience and profits. He does well from consequences. So if he knows consequences, oh, if I do that, I get in trouble, then I won't do it. Yeah, like a smart dog. That's what

they're calling him, basically. He's a pig person. A human pig. He is the human pig, this man. He wanders around saying, oh, okay, a lot. Oh, I get it now. 1979. he wanders around saying oh okay a lot oh i get it now okay 1979 yeah here august 5th 1979 he is paroled wow so as soon as he could possibly be paroled and because he went to minimum security

and they're all recommending he's doing great. He settles in Manchester, New Hampshire. Yeah. Okay. Ten days after he's released from fucking prison. Yeah. For what he did, which was horrible. He is charged with, he's going to be charged with the sexual assault of a nine-year-old girl. Oh, my.

In New Hampshire. In New Hampshire. After 10 days after getting out of prison for this boy is it does his lawyer have a red face right now uh yeah who boy am i am i looking silly right now embarrassed i'll tell you what i mean boy i thought i really thought could have done that a little bit better. Hmm. Or what about the guy from the guy from prison said he learned his behaviors and consequences and blah, blah, blah. Ten days. Ten days of a nine year old girl.

So they question him for that and they're going to charge him later. But before they charge him right after they question him, he denies it. So they have to let him go because they're got to put the case together he quits his job and fucking takes off goodbye he knows he's going to be charged yeah so on april 1st 1980 a grand jury in new hampshire indicted him on one count of aggravated felonious sexual assault how is that not on a child on a nine-year-old and nine is like extra fucking that's the felonious part the rest of it's a misdemeanor yeah that's fine jesus christ uh when he failed to appeal for

his or appear for his arraignment his bail was forfeited and they issued a warrant for his arrest okay it's a new hampshire fugitive warrant and keep that in mind because it'll come up for the next 30 years. It's a big deal in this thing. So, okay. He's wanted in New Hampshire, allegedly. Vermont and Florida now. Well, now he just moves to Vermont. In Vermont, he's fine because he was paroled there.

Oh. So, remember, he's okay there, I think. Right? Wasn't he arrested? No, didn't he have a warrant there? Oh, no, that's in New Hampshire. That's right. Yeah, that's in New Hampshire.

I guess so, but instead, he goes back to Vermont. Don't worry, he'll get in trouble again. So it's not like he's going to go live a quiet life in the woods in Vermont, and it's fine. All right. So 1980 in Vermont, he's residing in Wardsboro with his aunt Mildred Ballantyne, which sounds like somebody's old aunt that would let you stay there. Right. This is my aunt Mildred Ballantyne. Um, yeah, he had lived with his estranged wife.

They're now estranged at that point in New Hampshire. Mildred said that he lived with her for about seven weeks. He was waiting on a farm job, apparently. Apparently in the spring there'll be farm jobs. It's winter, so there's... Seasonal jobs, sure. Exactly. So he's waiting out the winter,

and his wife and three children were going to move to Vermont when he got the job, is what Mildred said. That was the plan. Except on February 20th, oh boy his wife tells him it's over she's done marriage is over yeah three kids several rapes it's over like this is a long she's had a long decade we have children yeah and she if he's raping strangers imagine what he does to that poor woman what he does to her well i don't want him around my kids i'll tell you that much even if they're his i don't want him i don't trust him he's raping

nine-year-olds what the fuck he has no look there's no moral basement on this guy he's a fucking monster so his wife decides it's all over with eight years and three kids. Fuck this. We're done. Okay. So that same day he's good and fucking pissed off. Yeah. And on February 20th, 1980, this is, he ends up finding a woman named Susan Mackey,

M-A-K-I. She's 21 at the time. She is driving to work in the morning, which is fuck. She works for Precision Airlines in Springfield. She left her home in Claremont about 10 a.m. on the way to going to work. That's all. Just fucking going to work. Catch the noon flight out of there.

That's all. She's on her way to work. She sees a hitchhiker. Yeah. At the Springfield Claremont, New Hampshire toll bridge. There's a hitchhiker there. So she picks him up, which is weird. I don't know why she's picking this guy up.

But back then, though, people just picked up hitchhikers. It was normal. You know what I mean? So she picks him up. And this is where you're going and all that sort of thing. And they start pulling away. And, you know, this is where you're going and all that sort of thing. And they start pulling away. She says, though, quote, he reached into his pocket and pulled out a knife and put his arm around me and press the knife to my abdomen.

Oh, so now he's holding a knife on this poor woman. So obviously she's terrified. He tells her, quote, just keep on driving. I'm just going to make you a little late for work. What does that mean? That's what he tells her. That's what's so terrifying. Who the fuck knows what that's at?

While someone's got a knife on you, that sounds scary. And he's a weird-looking guy, too. That's the other thing. In his 20s, he looked a little less weird. But later on, you're like, oh, God, that guy will absolutely drag you to a pig farm and rape every hole you got like that's what he looks like yikes so town ended up taking over driving of the car um takes her on a number of back roads they stop at a rest area and walk back into the woods where she's sexually assaulted yes he sexually assaults her a second time as well.

She said throughout all of this, she testified later that she was aware of the, he had a bone handled knife up against her the whole time. She said she tried to tell him about her job, her family, even showed him pictures of her two year old son. That's her, that's her approaches.

Don't kill me. Cause I'm, which this works on some people. Show them that you're a mother because he's got a mother. Show them the picture of the child because he was a child. John Douglas talks about this a lot. If you're a master of knowing what people are all about, you can find the right button to let people go. But the problem is sometimes if you're a master of knowing what people are all about, you can find the right button to let people go. But the problem is sometimes if you're in that situation, that button might be a trigger.

That's what he's saying. I hate my mom. Yeah, that thing. Sometimes this works. Humanization works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it does the opposite and pisses them off. Sometimes they want you to act like you never know what a psychopath wants.

She picked this approach she said i wanted to make myself more real to him someone who would be missed also yeah the look for me is another thing yeah so she said that he actually after he raped her at knife point asked her if she enjoyed it yikes was that Was that good for you? Like, what are you fucking? What a pathetic asshole. I've also never heard of a bone knife being a part of something and like the bone handle knife. That's a terrifying knife. Yeah.

It's pointy. And those are somebody that always dies with that. That's what you got a trout with. Yeah. You know, like that. That's what you got a trout with. Yeah. You know, like that. And they oftentimes have like that, like fucking Rambo blade on the end of it, too. And that bone doesn't slip. So you can really get after it.

I think this is only like a four inch blade. But still, it's a goddamn knife in your abdomen. Nobody wants to be stabbed to death. You know, he'll rape you. He might do anything. So he asked her that sick question. She said this about it. Quote, although'll rape you. He might do anything. So he asked her that sick question. She said this about it. Quote, although I hadn't, I mean, obviously, I told him I did.

I didn't know how sick or nuts this guy might be. I didn't want to get him mad and he might kill me. She was just trying to get him away from her. She said she didn't have her identification with her when they walked into the woods. And she was thinking that if he killed me in the woods, no one's ever going to know who I am. If they don't find me for a while, they're never going to identify me.

This is fucking horrible. So, um, she said that he later drove through many small towns and eventually reached, um, Townshend, uh, towns in her town. Shen, I can't remember. Damn. She said that at that point, through many small towns and eventually reached Townshend, Townsend or Townshend.

I can't remember. Damn. She said that at that point he had told her that he liked her and wanted her to stay with him for a while and quote, be his old lady. Oh boy. His wife left him that morning and he's like, I'll just go pick a new one up.

And force her to be my old lady. Oh, yeah. I'll hitchhike. First one that picks me up, she's my old lady now. Yeah. She said when he insisted that she stay with him, she would nod in agreement. Yeah, sure. No problem.

Yeah, this is great. Yeah. So later, she said he broke into a small two-room camp near the dam, and he changed his clothes and told her he'd be back in about an hour with some groceries for the two of them. Oh. He made her promise that she wouldn't run away. No, you promised. You'll just be right here so I can fucking assault you at knife point repeatedly, and you can be my old lady by force. I'm going to get some milk and eggs.

What the fuck? Obviously, she said, show me. I'll be right here. I'm going to make it all comfy for us. Yeah, I'll make the bed. I'm going to get the dishes ready. We're going to really have a whole thing. She said she watched from a window until the car was out of sight.

from a window until the car was out of sight. And as soon as it was, she fucking burst out, ran down the road, and was pounding on any camp door that was there looking for help. Nobody was there because it was February was the problem. Oh, dear God. So she was able to, there was finally a car drove by, and she was able to flag down a passing car and was taken by the driver to the hospital grace cottage hospital and she finally safe made a report yeah this is a six hour ordeal holy this poor fucking woman that is oh shit she's 21 man that is horrifying she was going to work yeah which is bad enough

she had to wake up for work. And he was just going to make her a little late for work, and then he fucking was going to keep her. You're going to be my old lady. Yeah. He's like, I won't kill you. I'll just keep you forever. Like, don't run away now. Yeah.

But that's how dumb he is, that he really thought that, oh, he must have charmed her. Yeah. She said she liked the sex. She was showing me the pictures of her kid. We were in a relationship. We were connecting. Yeah, what the fuck. We were getting serious.

Jesus, we're going to watch some TV tonight. We had a whole plan of what we were going to watch. So she said that he watched when they were out in the car. He watched her looking through the rear view window and turned to look himself and when he saw a passing vehicle he moved away from her to appear as nothing unusual was happening when she first picked him up like not he was like aware of oh i don't want people to think that it looks like i'm kidnapping a woman so that's what's what's also very interesting so he's aware of that shit he's not just oblivious So he's obviously arrested for this.

He's driving her car. So, I mean, she just goes, you can find him in my car. And he is found in the car. He's arrested. He is told, obviously, of his right to remain silent. Yeah. He immediately, upon hearing his rights, completely disregards them. Sure.

And says that he wants to be taken to a mental institution rather than jail. Yeah. The cop said, why? And he responded, quote, blonde hair and blue eyes. That's my weakness. What does that mean? That means that's why I was raping that woman. Because if I see women with blonde hair and blue eyes, I just have to take my knife out and rape them.

So take me to a mental institution, please. I'm because of that. He thinks he's mental. He thinks he's crazy because he's just that makes him. He's got a kink super horned up and he can't control it. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast. Morbid. We're your hosts.

I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great.

A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal. Or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes. You should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's all a lighthearted nightmare on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart. And I'm Ash Kelly. And our show is part true crime, part spooky, and part comedy. The stories we cover are well-researched.

He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people. With a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great. A dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother****er lied. Like a liar. Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal,

or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast, Morbid. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad-free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. I

understand that anybody who's paid attention to the media would have to come to the conclusion that I killed my wife. Hi, my name is Zach Stewart-Pontier. I'm one of the filmmakers behind The Jinx, and I'm excited to bring you the official Jinx podcast podcast we'll be

revisiting all six episodes of part one and watching along with part two as it airs on max starting april 21st bye bye the official jinx podcast listen on max or wherever you get your podcasts i mean it makes him mental that he can't not rate people that'd be that's a problem that'd be great if he could if he could cut that. If he just, you know, like tried to hit on chicks with blonde hair and blue eyes. Right. Fine. I bet you'll find one eventually.

Yeah. By the way, this one they said bore a striking resemblance to his wife as well. Is that right? Striking resemblance. Looked pretty much just like her. They were like, that's. Taking it out on her. That was disturbing. So they need evidence, obviously. they have a whole lot of eyewitness testimony they have

him saying hey blonde hair and blue eyes man you know how it is he probably you know he like elbowed him in the shoulder like blonde hair and blue eyes brother you know what i'm talking about yeah so the science of it they testify later that semen was found on underwear worn by Susan and inside of a coat and on pants owned by him and worn by him that day. He's just fucking. He's coming everywhere. He's like a drippy hose. It's just all over the place. Inside the coat.

He came in a coat. I don't know how that happens. Oh, my God. Unless he just had it all over his hands and it was just. Yeah, when he put his hands in the sleeves, it got on the inside of the sleeves. He like did one of these, you know, grabbed like his lapels and was like, I straightened myself. Proud of himself. Yeah.

Had it all over his hands. Jizz hands in there and some. Pigman, the jizz hands. Oh, dick hands. Evidence of type AB blood, which is Susan's type, was found also on his clothing as well. It's not his blood type. It's her blood type. That's not great.

The scientist, though, said that he was unable to determine whether the evidence of his blood was present in samples taken from her vaginal swabs because her type a blood masks his type a blood his her type a b blood i guess overpowers and masks his a they needed more science here on this this is there just wasn't the science available to make these determinations now you could figure it out back then they had no idea they didn't know how many cells they were like wait wait he she's an a well a b well we're not gonna find his a fuck it never mind like they had no fucking idea. They didn't know how many cells for each. They were like, wait, wait, she's an A? Well, A, B? Well, we're not going to find his A. Fuck it, never mind. Like, they had no idea where the shit was going.

Today, they'd be like, well, check this man. That one has lower T cells in it. So that's not hers. Can we get an IQ out of that semen? Because then we could tell. I think that one's got gout, too. Yeah, this one just keeps bumping into a wall. think that's his i'm gonna say you're looking for the blood that bumps into walls and has a hobble yeah that's the one i think we found a little drop leg uh drop foot on the left leg so he's taken to trial both defense and prosecutors uh describe him as a man with quote profound psychosexual problems there we go that's a good name for the episode closer profound

psychosexual problems is a very good episode name i think we're going to use that that is terrible uh either that or the the piggy jizz. I don't know which one to use. The pivotal issue was whether or not he was legally insane. He said insanity. I'm fucking crazy. Yeah, but okay. So they tried to cite his troubled past, tried to prove that he was insane. I mean, that's one of those where we're like crazy, but legally insane?

Yeah, come on now. It's fucking nuts, but is he? I don't know. That's what I mean. So they try to paint a picture of him as being a chronically shy, which is the opposite of what I would call him. Yeah, that's very outgoing. To hop in a stranger's car, pop a knife in, and be like, you're my old lady, I'm going to rape you.

That's as outgoing as it gets right there. That is a very cautious fella. They called him shy, insecure. Shy. He rapes a woman and thinks she likes it. That's not insecure either. Imagine if he was outgoing. Yeah.

Imagine if he had an ego on him. Jesus Christ. And they called him depressed also for a good part of his life. Shy, insecure, and depressed, which there's a lot of guys like that, and they don't do this. So the county attorney here, he likened Towne's behavior during this offense to that of a chess player who thinks three and four moves in advance. Like, he's not crazy. He's watching out for cars behind him. He's going to a secluded place.

not crazy he's watching out for cars behind him he's going to a secluded place he didn't take her to like a mcdonald's parking lot and rape her in the car because he knew people would see that and he get not only is this not only is this calculated and planned it is calculated and planned it's also a super plan yeah and like it's also pretty gross did we mention that because that's i mean yeah that's a given they said that the fact that Towne throughout the day took precautions to avoid being caught in the criminal act is evidence that he was in control of his behavior and aware of the criminality of what he was doing. He said he was in complete control to the extent that he was thinking out each step of the crime well in advance. I'm sorry about his mental condition, but it didn't take over on that afternoon. Susan Mackey came along and he did what he wanted to do.

That's what the prosecutor said. And I wish we knew anything about what happened in New Hampshire or Florida right now. And Tennessee also, yeah, because God knows. We should know this stuff so that we can put him away even longer. We can tell you even more stories and bring even more people up here. He's not learning anything except for rape harder. rape smarter not harder is what he learned that's which is not

what you want people to learn that's not the lesson we want them to take so uh his defense here uh they brought in they had three psychiatrists who all testified uh here now the prosecution said they were all trying to tell you the same thing, that he suffered from a chronic depressive illness and psychosexual disturbance that dates back to childhood. But they said there's not a shred of evidence that his defense

says that there's not a shred of evidence that his actions were premeditated. They said his behavior was, quote, triggered by the mental defect that led him to depart from reality as soon as the woman picked him up hitchhiking. Departed from reality. They said, yeah, a lot on his background, how he was poverty stricken, moving all around, all that kind of thing. They also brought up that his mother was, quote, sexually promiscuous and was the root of his psychosexual

problems. That's what a psychiatrist said too. Okay. Wow. Under cross Susan testifies against him which really she's going to describe in detail six hours of terror that you're a badass

that jury is going to want to fucking get pitchforks and torches when they're done, when she's done testifying. Yeah, and she's going to tell all that while his defense says his mom's a little slutty? Get out of here. They say worse than that. This is dumb. The public defender here, David Reed, this is the dumbestest approach ever asked if he had actually stolen anything from her yeah that's part of this is he stole so did he actually steal anything from you yeah she said

quote i consider the rape to be something stolen from me yeah you set yourself up for that one public defender dipshit have you heard of dignity mr reed and she said oh by the way he also stole my fucking car from the place remember that yeah so besides my dignity and car then no he didn't take anything have you any dignity mr reed holy he didn't he didn't go through my purse no if that's what you're asking take anything he actually take anything off you? Wow. My clothes and my car. Fuck you. That is fucking insane. Holy shit. So there's a lot of that here.

A lot of was he properly notified of his rights? That's a thing. So the defense called witnesses from New Hampshire who examined him in 1976. One is a probation officer with the New Hampshire Department of Probation and Parole. One is a probation officer with the New Hampshire Department of Probation and Parole. He said that his examination of town led him to recommend that he receive psychiatric treatment. He said, I felt he had serious personality problems, and he concluded that there'd be no favorable change in his behavior as a result of imprisonment. He's the guy who said he learned his lesson.

Let him out. Yeah. So they also said that he's withdrawn and secure has poor relationships with women uh they got psychiatrists involved uh they said that he was this is one psychiatrist said yes although he might have been outwardly making attempts to hide his criminal act he wasn't able to stop himself from his actions okay okay so you know he was smart enough to do that, but he couldn't stop himself from doing it. He's out of control.

Two psychiatrists testified about this family and how his background had an influence on his behavior. He had a hard time making friends. He's depressed, felt rejected. He's got a wife and three kids. If that didn't work out, great, but you got a woman to marry you and stay with you for enough time for you to have three kids with her. Fuck you.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So they said this was all because of his childhood. You never know. One of the defense psychiatric witnesses refuted earlier statements made by the prosecution's expert here. Both of them, though, agreed that he is depressed and has problems interacting with people, but they differed under whether he was mentally ill. One said that part of his psychosis here, they said, is the inability of a person to

perceive reality as one component of psychosis. So they don't think he has an ability to perceive reality as one component of psychosis. So they don't think he has an ability to perceive reality correctly. This guy said that Towne suffered from depression most of his life, described him as shy and insecure in relations with other people, which is the reason for his depression. He said, I think he's been quite dissatisfied with himself for many years, particularly in his difficulty with winning affection from others. Oh.

Yeah. So you can rate people at night point. Head on home. Wait, our mistake. If I hold them long enough, I can can stockholm them and then that's good that's all i need so when he pulled a knife on his victim and she submitted to him for fear of his life this psychiatrist said that town actually believed that she was submitting because he convinced her to like him oh that's what he thought oh she said she liked the sex and she said she'd be his old lady. So that must mean that that's true.

That's my old lady. Yeah. So they said this is where he lost touch with reality and showed symptoms of mental illness. He showed he's an idiot, but not that he's mentally ill. So they said that he'd been married. He had three children and, you know, all of that. Also, they said that when he did this this town felt as though no one cared about him oh and that's sad oh you poor guy no one cares well fucking no one cares about a lot of people uh quote i think that the general feeling is something that had existed for some time

they said also quote mrs mackie resembled a former girlfriend. That's right. Not the ex-wife who had a great influence on town. And when she reportedly gave him a ride, town saw that resemblance in her. And they said the former girlfriend was passive, encouraging and approving. And town had not had any other relationship similar to that. And they said Mrs. Mackey was only in the car for a short time when he decided he wanted to be with her. The psychiatrist said Towne doubted that she would want to go with him, so he used a knife to persuade her, hoping that she would become interested in him over the course of hanging out with him.

Okay. This is his courtship then, in his head is what they're saying? This is his courtship. If I pull out a knife and make her stay i can convince her that i so i won't need the knife after a little bit okay so they said that he was unable to control his actions he this guy said he was fully out of control as he would be if he was psychotic that's what they said so the verdict comes in here um the uh they deliberate for approximately two hours yeah and he is found guilty as shit yeah he's the living witness telling exactly what happened what are you gonna do super guilty

so during sentencing he says quote it's this is actually uh ed it does absolutely no good in this state for a man to try to get the help he needs because he ain't gonna get it that's what he said i tried to get help nobody will give it to me so i've asked for the state's fault to stop me from raping and they haven't done it haven't done it i mean granted i ran when they put me in prison where there's no women to rape but still so they Right. But still. So they sentence him to, quote, you, sir, may fuck off concurrent terms of 10 to 15 years. OK, so concurrent. So he wouldn't be eligible for. So same time they wouldn't be eligible for parole until 87 here. OK. Problem is, the Vermont Supreme Court overturns the guilty verdict.

Why? Because parts of this psychiatric testimony were judged to be hearsay and thus could not be admitted as evidence so yeah they they this is great this was sexual assault and kidnapping and they're like nope nope so uh he's also arrested for um or i'm sorry that's what they do so they overturn the conviction He has to be retried here. Remanded for retrial? Retrial. Oh, my God. 1983, his lawyer repeatedly argues for special help for his client while he's a prisoner.

He said they haven't helped him at all. He was in prison even after he was convicted. He works out a deal with the state to plead guilty. he works out a deal with the state to plead guilty now in this deal this deal also wraps in the 1979 New Hampshire fugitive warrant

remember when he raped a 9 year old this will make this go away really? yes that's part of the deal this wraps into that he's going to plead guilty in Vermont to felony charges of kidnapping and sexual assault in return for a reduced sentence during the plea negotiations the vermont state's attorney

contacted new hampshire authorities and said hey you know that fucking warrant you have there they said well what about this they reach an oral understanding concerning the charges based on certain representations that have been made over the phone they said so according to the terms of this agreement which was made uh part of the sentencing record in vermont new hampshire state authorities promised to drop the pending new hampshire charges against him and withdraw their detainer from the file so it's all clear now he's free in uh well he's not free but from new hampshire it's all cleaned up from the nine-year-old yeah so a the this agreement now they send him to sentencing and he is sentenced to you sir may fuck off six to eight years in prison now so clean 10 to 15 to six to eight

all squared except for that shit in florida and he's recommended to for participation in the state sex uh sex offender treatment program terrific fix it get it fixed yeah now why did they let him play you might add you might ask what the fuck why would you they had a bunch of evidence they convicted him easily the first time a two-hour deliberation well susan didn't want to talk about it no the susan had moved to moved to California and refused to return to testify again. She didn't want to fucking go relive that. I don't blame her. I'm going to go back to this place that I left to leave it behind me and I'm

going to fucking relive it again. I don't think so. I don't live in Vermont anymore. You people deal with them. I left your, your orange leaves in the fall for sunny California. So I'm done. And they were scared that without her testimony, he would get acquitted and be able to leave

then. So the prosecutor said, if you don't have the victim there to testify, you don't have a case. And that was the reason for the plea agreement. It's not like now where you'd have DNA evidence and it wouldn't matter. Well, we found her DNA on his underwear. That would have been enough said. But at this point, it's different.

So he said, the problem I faced in attempting to retry this case was the problem that prosecutors are faced with in all rape cases. The victim has been traumatized by the original assault. Yeah. The trial constitutes a second trauma for her. And in this case, the victim understandably was unable and unwilling to go through the trauma another time. So there you go. able and unwilling to go through the trauma another time. Right.

So there you go. They give him a, uh, they're also a suspended four to seven year prison term for the kidnapping. Oh, that's nice. So if he fucks up in that time, yeah.

Four to seven. That's great. Six to eight for the rape. And then the kidnapping is suspended and he gets credit for time served and they're going to be sent, uh, sentences are to be served concurrently. Okay. So as part of the probation for his probation for the suspended sentence, they order him to participate in a mental health program and said that he is not allowed to hitchhike or pick up hitchhikers.

You cannot participate in hitchhikery. That's not a that's not a free woman. That's how he sees it. It's like like, you know, when somebody leaves like an old armoire out in front of their free woman that's how he sees it it's like like you know when somebody leaves like an old armoire out in front of their fucking house that's just free on it or something like an old entertainment center that fix like it fits a fucking square tv left her for bulk trash there's just a free woman on the side of the road that's what i've been looking for yeah not free women so they said that uh with the split sentence such as this one, the person being sentenced is eligible for probation after about three quarters of the minimum sentence that's served.

So that'd be minimum three quarters of four years. Plus he's got time served. So he's basically ready to walk now. Wow. So they said they must be placed on probation. And unless there's some further criminal act, then he's on probation. And that's how it works so the sex offender program little on that it was opened in 1982 they do not accept

all sex offenders so they parse severity i don't know if they're being picky about i don't know if you have to be a worse rapist or not as bad of a rate like you know i don't know which that is for like if it's for the minimum or like that guy really needs some talking to they literally say that's our kind of guy that's our kind of guy right there um they said only those offenders who sincerely accept responsibility for their act and acknowledge the harm inflicted by it should be considered appropriate that's only yeah because we want to be successful with this and the only ones that we can do you got to want it if you won't even admit it we're not gonna obviously you're not going to be fixed so uh at the time of the his arrest in 1980 he wanted to talk to uh her this is when he was arrested for the rape he went to the cops and said well just let me talk

to her i'll straighten it out and we won't have this. Because trust me, like, we had a real connection. I think there's been a crossing of the wires here because we were. Miscommunication. She's my old lady now, she said. Wow. Yeah. So they said offenders with histories of crimes other than sexual offenses were considered ineligible and his weapons and assault charges should have excluded

him but didn't because they didn't know they existed they only know of sexual things so september 7th 1984 he is released from custody unbelievable for the last 15 years he's just been raping raping and slipping out of it somehow so that is insane here. He won early release from the Chittenden Community Correctional Center because prison officials felt he shown improvement in the program for sexual offenders. Yeah. The superintendent of the facility said that town here, they said that he benefited from the program. He said he thought we thought that it worked. He said it's not like we don't have a crystal ball. True.

Yeah. Well, then maybe you shouldn't let people out in a year. Yeah. So he was released with the approval of the head guy of the board here on September 7th, 1984. Wow. That is wild. They said that if he had served six years for the crime, he would have been released on May 29th of this year. So even if the whole all that shit didn't happen, if he had just served his normal time, they'd be releasing him now anyway.

So from 1980. So he wins this for his good behavior in the program. They said officials running the program recommended he be released and continue treatment outside of jail. recommended he be released and continue treatment outside of jail. And they said that town continued to see a therapist up until November of 86. And we'll talk about that. So they said 14 people have completed the sex offender program. One of them is town. And they said, you know, none of the others have committed any offenses since then. So it's worked so far.

The program won national recognition for being in the forefront of rehabilitative treatment, but also received criticism from people who were saying, you know, you're letting rapists out early. Yeah, that's the last thing you want to do is celebrate how great you are at stopping rape. Jesus Christ. Yeah, you better be 100% at that point. You better be sure you did it. That's not one where you could be like, well, I mean, you know, there's going to be some rape,

obviously. We can't be 100%. Like, that's a big deal. It's a big, yeah. You know, sometimes you're going to miss one. In baseball, you hit 300, you're a Hall of Famer. You know what I'm saying? That's literally less than whatever. Three hits and ten at bats. Three hits and ten at bats. Three hits and ten at bats.

You're one of the best. So, you know, let's talk about it. Come on. You can't say that at that point. We're dealing with important shit. You stopped three, not seven? I mean. Jesus Christ.

So they said in treatment he opened up and admitted a lot. So they were feeling like he was going to be. I mean, he has no reason to not say he can admit it he's already served his time for it he can say whatever the fuck he wants and he knows that they can get out earlier if he does that so the old new hampshire warrant okay now despite new hampshire's promise to drop the charges the room it remained active on the files i guess the fugitive warrant was not withdrawn. According to the Hillsborough County attorney in New Hampshire, they said that the authorities maintained the indictment as an active status to assure that Vermont complied with the provisions of the plea agreement with him.

So they wanted to make sure it all went through and everything happened all fine before they dropped the warrant. Okay. So 1986, he's released from prison. Yep. And he is living in Vermont, and he's got a live-in girlfriend now. Really? Her name is Paul Leader Lewis, and that is- Paul Leader?

Paul Leader, like the leader of Paul. I'm Paul, and I'm a leader. But with one L, Paul Leader Lewis is heris is her name i don't even know what what that short paul do you call her for short paulie like what the fuck yeah that's strange it's very weird so they said that uh town at this point was building a house in eden mills and was working as a burlington auto mechanic fixing alternators and starters at a place that does that specifically. So they said he had spent time in his life when he was a kid in Burlington. He had some of his childhood there, so he was familiar with the area,

and that's what he was doing. So he's divorced now totally, has three kids, and very few people around the area even know him though like he kind of sticks to himself his next door neighbor who's a a tiny a little old lady they described her as who didn't want to be identified um she said that you know he seemed like a nice guy she said he's lived here for about a year year and a half her and her girlfriend him and his girlfriend paul eater keep to themselves she said i used to see him going out the back door to work and then coming home at night he'd come in and fix whatever needed to be fixed because he also by the way was the maintenance person for the complex yeah so he's fixing people's shit so he's

has keys to everybody's fucking house which is terrifying yeah terrifying so uh they said the the stairway leading to his second floor apartment is they're building a house and he lives in an apartment they said it's he worked as a maintenance man there for the building they said downstairs there's a barber shop and an upholstery business and the barber said he only saw town once in the year and a half he lived there because he goes to work in the morning comes home at night and that's that so that's what he's doing at this point he's busy busy working building a house having a live-in girlfriend doing the normal things that you're supposed to do that's good. Keep your head down. Yeah. That's a good thing. Okay. Then September 10th, 1986 comes along. Okay.

There is a young lady here named Paulette Crickmore. Paulette. Paulette. C-R-I-C-K Moore. Yeah. M-O-R-E. So she goes to Mount Mansfield Union High School. Oh, Jesus.

So she goes to Mount Mansfield Union High School. Oh, Jesus. She's described as a nice, sweet kid, clean, you know, doesn't like hang out in the back of the school and smoke joints and drink fucking Boone's Farm with you. She's not one of those kids. She's all Vermont. Yep. She's a school band kid, all A's and B's in school, not allowed to date yet by her parents. So she's a child yeah you know what i mean she's not one of these kids in the 80s who was like you know she's not judd nelson from the

breakfast club she's more alley sheedy but younger you know even younger nice kid um the family experienced some tragedy a few years before this six years earlier her brother dale was killed in a hunting accident oh no so this family's gone through some trauma here obviously he was shot yes now on september 10th her mom just had a new baby so they had a wow that's a big gap new sibling yeah so there's a brand new kid at home and infants infant's at home, and everything like that. So this morning she heads to school. She has her backpack and her flute with her. Yeah.

She plays the flute. So she stops at a store before that, though, before she goes to school. She has to stop. We'll find out why in a minute here. But her father's name is Alan, and he was already at work. He went to work early he works at hayward tyler pump company and his and her stepmother tammy was at home with a two-week old baby yeah so there we go paulette got off um i guess she has to take a couple of buses

to get to school so she got off one bus at the Four Corners in Richmond, where is a store there. She had a $7 babysitting check that somebody gave her. And she cashes that and buys an apple and some milk. Good kid. Good kid.

That's how sweet she is. She buys an apple and some milk. Doesn't buy a fucking Mountain Dew and some fucking hot Cheetos. She's keeping the doctor away and strengthening some fucking hot cheetos she's keeping the doctor away and strengthening these bones that's yeah she's a real nice fucking you know listens to her parents even when they're not there she buys an apple and milk with her own money yeah so now it's 805 so she's running behind schedule a little bit here yeah so she asked the crossing

guard at the intersection if the the late bus to mount mansfield has already passed yeah she doesn't know so the guard said that the guard didn't know either so paulette ran up to jericho road towards camel toward camel's hump middle school yeah because that's an area camel's hump there's a view of camel's hump exactly that's we heard all about it earlier. She had her flute case and a bright blue backpack on. She is seen at about 8.15 a.m. walking east on Jericho Road

just past the Interstate 89 overpass in Richmond. She's spotted by a driver heading west. She was walking with traffic and not hitchhiking. So, never thumb out, but she's walking with traffic, which youhiking so to never thumb out but she's walking with traffic which you're supposed to walk against traffic when you're walking as a general you can see if you're gonna get hit by a fucking car yeah yeah that helps uh but then

biking you're supposed to go with traffic so they can just hit you from behind and launch then you're a car too i don't you're an asshole is what you are but because you're going slightly faster than walking so now you're a car you're not going 50 i'll tell you that much so what you're not a fucking car fucking move it move it so um she is last seen there that's the last time anybody sees her and then she disappears she's trying to get the bus to to go to mount mansfield high school in jericho she's five foot four 115 pounds blue eyes brown hair wearing blue jeans a blue denim jacket white canvas bright kids all the girls wore back then and she's last seen where he carrying a bright blue book bag and a black flute case you know the little instrument case so she disappears now right away

the the everybody talks about and the a lot of speculation is that well she must have been hitchhiking probably to school because she was late so she probably was just hitchhiking and somebody picked her up and her father alan said she's not she didn't fucking hitchhike this kid's not hitchhiking she bought an apple and milk for fuck's sake she's not hitchhiking yeah she's not she didn't fucking hitchhike this kid's not hitchhiking she bought an apple and milk for fuck's sake she's not hitchhiking she doesn't live dangerously she lives very safe you don't buy an apple and milk and then hitchhike

and be like you got any fucking coke or anything like that's not how it is so he said and she didn't run away she's not a runaway kid that's not any of that because they said well maybe she ran away maybe she met a friend and they took off together they're like no she's not that runaway kid. That's not any of that. Because they said, well, maybe she ran away. Maybe she met a friend and they took off together. They're like, no, she's not that kind of kid. So the police also suspect foul play here because everybody they talk to, they're like, well, maybe the parents don't know.

They talk to her friends and teachers and they're all like, no, that kid's not going anywhere. Nice kid. Listens to people. Not a dick. going anywhere nice kid listens to people not a dick so the one cop said we always hope it's a runaway but there are indications here that that's not the case because number one she didn't bring any clothes with her she left money in her room yeah kids that run away empty piggy bank and apple and milk and her book bag with books in it right she's not a runaway she's looking for shit she's got to be somewhere they did they look talk to everybody no problems with family no problems in school

shouldn't even like have a beef with a girl at school nothing there's no anything going on with her they said if she decided to run away the cop said most spur-of-the-moment runaways get homesick and call their parents within 48 hours. If she's not being abused or running from something, most kids, they just went to try to have a bit of freedom for a minute, and then they go, oh, shit, this sucks, and they call their parents. She went to Tower Records. She listened to everything.

Now she's back home. Now she's back. Paulette's father is concerned because she's still listed as a runaway in the next couple days. Oh. So this is the National Crime Information Center computer in Washington, D.C. She's listed as a missing juvenile, which is what they describe, how they label runaways. So they said that it's not what it is, obviously. So the state police were trying to get them to

reclassify her as a child at risk. But they said that, you know, it was hard to do, basically, which I don't understand why. Yeah. The father father's pissed off. Alan, he says the police won't look as hard for her if they think she's possibly a runaway. They look around. Right. So it wasn't her fault that she's gone.

He said to have her listing is just missing casts aspersions. She didn't run away. That designation shouldn't be there. And also the officials there confirmed that, and they said that they have a number of avenues to publicize missing children, but only if they're considered to be at risk. They said the center can help you significantly more if it's entered into the computer that foul play is involved. That's what the technical advisor said.

So they cited one program run by the national broadcasting company, NBC, that could have helped. Every week, NBC would distribute a list and photos of missing children to its affiliates nationwide so they could run them on their local news. But she wasn't on that list real because she was on the runaway list oh right all right yeah so they said that the next week though the photo and the case went to nbc when they found out that her status was changed so there you go now finally sergeant police sergeant leo bla bla blaze b-l-a-S. Yeah, that's Blais. Blais, yeah. He's covering the case. He's on it.

He said that he made the initial missing juvenile entry. He said, when I originally did it, it was a missing person, but I did talk with everyone else, and it made better sense to upgrade. So they said what they've done is realistic. The child has entered as a missing person. That doesn't designate any pros or cons concerning the child being at risk. I can see where they would first look at this as a missing child in hopes that the child would show up in the community. But anyway, the Crickmore family was very frustrated. He was frustrated. He said that now there's rumors about her. In the past week, people in Springfield heard that Paulette was seen with a 30-year-old man in Burlington,

while other people in Burlington heard she was seen in Springfield. So it's one of those now. It's becoming that. And this is even pre-internet, this to happen. So, I mean, imagine what it would be like now. There'd be a million people going, she was seen here, and then they'd have an hour-long video where they you know took it apart remember this her on the surveillance of the gabby patito thing yeah was that horrible thing that happened not that's not a thing that murder but i mean there was every everywhere yeah every goddamn instagram sleuth was out there going well well, I mean, she's here.

And then shut the fuck up. Shut up, all of you. Let people figure it out. Jesus Christ. So the father, Alan, said it takes the eyes off the track. People have even started taking down posters. It's very cruel. What?

Why would you take it down? Because they heard she ran away with a 30-year-old. So that's what it is. I heard she was found. We don't even need this up anymore. She's just a 10th grade harlot that's all right just a sophomore strumpet no need to fucking have a poster up that's ridiculous on the road so yeah so they said there's they do official searches they can't find her turning up nothing they put out thousands of posters with her picture distributed throughout New England.

Workers at Hayward Tyler rallied around the Crickmores. They did their own searches. They contributed $1,000 of their own money to the family. A $10,000 reward fund was set up. And, you know, people are, it's a fucking young girl missing. People are trying to find her here. So, obviously, this is, you know, horrible. They said that they've turned up, the cops nothing tangible they can't find anything they've had hundreds of leads so many phone calls

came in so they would assemble every morning and they would search around and they said anybody who is willing to search can join the join the procedure The policeman here said we could use as many people as we can get. And Alan Crickmore, though, does not join. The police asked him to not join the search. Really? He said, you stay home. The one cop, small, he said he's been through enough. They said he'll stay home listening for the phone, trying to keep from going into a tailspin here.

So the dad said, quote, the days are wearing on us. We're pretty tired. We're not sleeping. We're pretty frightened, too. I don't blame them here. So at least his company grants him indefinite leave with pay and also gave all the employees a bunch of different days off so they could all go search as well. Very nice. So basically close down the shop and let the employees go search,

which is a good thing to do, for Christ's sake. And they pay for a lot of the flyers too, which is nice. So they said that right now we're short of the $10,000 reward, so we're asking the public to help. Jesus, I would hope so. They ended up raising the $10,000 eventually here. Thank fuck. So they go on to say, quote, what was great was how many people offered to take flyers

and distribute them for us. A truck driver took some to put in a truck stop between here and Connecticut, put one in truck stops between here and Connecticut. One UPS guy said he would give one to all of his customers. And yeah, one lady just said, I'll give them out. I'll pass them out in traffic. Don't care. So people were, they said for weeks,

the state and local police were just overwhelmed with tips. Just tons of them, but nothing panned out. They searched all the local quarries. They searched the river after reports that a body had been sighted in the river they and eventually though after a couple of weeks the phone tips dwindled to the point where they were getting like one one a day maybe in like two weeks um the mr crickmore allen too he made his own searches even he's out there just looking around that's horrible imagine finding your own

kid you don't want to find that imagine not finding them and then just spinning all day long looking for anything and you just drive yourself fucking crazy yep and he did he drove up and down back roads and his pickup looking for her and driving in areas where we'll find out he was very close to her. Oh, no. So he returned to work after a few weeks and then started going to counseling. And what are you going to do? I mean, you have to live. Now you've got to cope with that child not being there. Your life can only be on pause for so long mentally before you're going to break.

And he has other kids and a family, so you can't break. Imagine all that with a newborn. Right. At home. Two weeks. Wow. Kids are scared everywhere here, by the way. Here's a 17-year-old that goes to high school with Paulette,

said that he stopped hitchhiking after her disappearance. They're not looking for you, dude. He was 17. He probably shouldn't have been hitchhiking anyway. But, yeah, you're not the guy. He said he's even given strangers in town a second look now. He's suspicious of everyone. He's very paranoid, yeah.

He said it's just weird, something like that happening in Richmond, especially to someone I know. Yeah. Yeah, a grocery store clerk who was 16, a guy named Rich Wixon, said he was frightened to think about the possibility of being abducted. Your name's Rich. They're not looking for dudes, bro. Yeah, 17-year-old guys are less likely to be abducted than 16-year-old girls. Yeah, he said that you've really got to be able to, you've got to be really sick to do that.

Well, no shit. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, that's fucking horrible. So another guy here said that, you know, he wants her to be found so the family can have whatever and, you know. Rich can go back to hitchhiking. Go back to hitchhiking and feel better. And he also says that he hopes whoever did this will suffer. He said, quote, I used to be against it, but now I wish Vermont had the death penalty.

But I don't know. Maybe with prison, with life without parole, maybe the bastards will suffer more. It's fascinating what a little bit of fear will make you want against whoever made you feel that fear. Fear is amazing. Fear is amazing as a complete, and I'm not saying in this situation, but fear is amazing for your complete abandonment of logic boy boy the motivator to just do wild shit because you turn into you turn into like what those psychiatrists described him as just my dick's hard better stick it in something that

when you're fearful though that's what you do i'm fear this i better go there so um yeah that is a lot this one guy says i like law and order but i'd still like to get my hands on him myself okay calm down yeah that is um you don't even know what happened yet a girl's just missing at this point sir calm down and alan said when my son died and was buried it was over we knew it's over he's in the ground yeah this is what happened with this he's like how the fuck do we move on yeah that's it and um he said you know the other thing they said well what are you going to do if they don't find her and he said i guess i'll give some of her stuff to her brothers and sisters so they can keep part of her and her friends oh my god i don't know that's so sad um and if she's

dead he said we'll bury her next to her brother yeah that's that and um you know let her friends come out and say goodbye so suspects witnesses what are we doing here um uh sergeant blaze here he worked up a list of more than 20 people suspects then he found out that edwin town was living in richmond and he went well there's top of the fucking list is this guy living near Richmond. He's like, are you kidding me? We got the biggest scumbag in the Northeast here. So he said, quote, he became my number one primary suspect based on nothing but he's here and this happened.

Based on presence. Which is that's how big of a scumbag he is. That's how big of a scumbag he is. He said also witnesses had described seeing a pickup truck matching town's pickup truck, his Dodge pickup in Jericho on the day the murder was committed. He's like, this is getting a lot here. And his prior criminal record. And yeah, let's have a chat with him. So he said, one of the cops said it all started out as intuition. We sat down and said, do we know of anybody around here capable of such a thing?

Right. And Blaze was the one that came up with the town name. He said, this is a very good example of police intuition and legwork. Blaine says town was a logical, or Blaze says town was a logical choice.

He'd been arrested at least four times for sexual charges. He said, this is Blaze's quote here. Number one, it is standard operating procedure to immediately where are the sex offenders in the area you talk to them first right number one thing that they do first thing they do yeah first thing he's acting like this was like some stroke of like

constabulary genius here like are you out of your fucking mind he said cops are always thinking this is what a cop does all the time. Sometimes you go to home and go to bed and you start having dreams about it. What? What to do? The standard operating fucking procedure? Yeah. I was laying in bed one night and I was like, maybe we should check on sex offenders.

And my wife was like, that's genius. What's his name? And my boss was like, you didn't do that already? Jesus Christ. That's the first fucking thing you should have done. Yes. Check. Lucky I'm not fired.

God damn it. So, yeah, he is the principal investigating officer is Blaze. He requested a background check on Edwin Town from the National Computer Information Center. And the NCIC check disclosed the existence of an outstanding fugitive warrant for him in New Hampshire. They never got rid of it. This allows the authorities to be able to pull his ass over and search him for no reason, which is what they want. Oh, New Hampshire. So upon receiving this, Blaze requested and received the sheriff's department get a certified copy of the warrant.

So now he's like, I can fucking go get this guy anytime. Anytime I want, yeah. And actually bring him into the station. So he talks to the caseworkers also that worked with him. He's like, I'd like to know a little background going in. So he talks with two women who knew him at the correctional center. One was the casework supervisor and the other was his caseworker and uh also his parole officer later on so both women were aware of the new heart new hampshire

charges and uh sometime before all of this uh the one of the people his caseworker informed blaze that she believed the charges had been resolved though she wasn't certain and so did the other one they go I thought that was taken care of and he goes well I found this warrant so I got it right here so October 21st 1986 he is arrested for an old warrant that never that's I mean this is going to be a big deal

he there he's pulled over and he's going to be arrested for that but then they are allowed to search his car and they find a.32 caliber Mauser semi-automatic pistol in his car, which he's certainly not allowed to have on parole. But if this warrant doesn't exist, they're not allowed to even find that gun anyway.

There you go. See, that's the thing here. So the discovery of this weapon leads to his arrest on federal firearms possession charges this is a felon fantastic for the safety of the community it's great for them yeah he is brought back to the court to provide also while he's in there they also take him to court because they're like while you're here there's something else we need to talk to you about you're not giving your ex-wife child support that you owe for your three kids. You son of a bitch.

They put him in there. So they followed him around, eventually pulled him over. His pistol was loaded, too, of course. Wow. And there we go. So it was under his seat. It is not, as we'll find out, they don't think this is the murder weapon here. No.

But it's enough to get them to search other places where they end up getting two rifles from him as well okay so they got the open warrant the two rifles all this shit they think they got their guy for paulette but they haven't found her yeah or any evidence evidence against him yeah so while they have him in there for this firearms thing, they question him a little bit here. And at the time of his arrest, he admitted being on Jericho Road the morning of September 10th. What the hell? Why? Why did he do that?

He said because afterwards he drove to Eden where he worked on the foundation of his house, which is very fucking important. Sir, you did what what then he went and laid fucking concrete after this eight inches thick he also said that at the time um he had damaged his truck during the first part of september he purchased a number of concrete blocks before september 10th and on september 12, moved more blocks from the property of his employer. He told one of his employers, Don Bork, who we'll talk about here, that he had driven his pickup truck

into a tree on his land and ruined it. So, yeah. Now, he told the cop on the day in question he drove a load of concrete blocks from Richmond to Eden Mills, where he's building his house, told them also he was on Jericho Road right around the same time where she disappeared

with her shit. They release him the same day though. He makes bond on the weapons charges and they can't arrest him on this yet. So they release him that day. We got a good start though. He put himself at the scene of what we determined as one crime. Absolutely.

He pleads not guilty and released on a $10,000 appearance bond. Okay. Okay. Now it's deer season. Yeah. So now the woods are just- Teeming with people. Teeming with people traipsing for deer around all over.

All on foot, for Christ's sake. So November 19th is the peak of all this. Yeah. And on this day, there is a man named Howard Blackmore. He's 75. He's walking in the Duxbury Woods here. Yeah. West of River Road, about a quarter mile south of the Chittenden County line.

He's walking around looking for deer. He's walking up a hill past a large rock about 130 feet from the road. And he says, I went by the boulder. And of course, at my age, I stopped and I looked back and I saw these brightly colored overalls. Yeah. So he drove back to Waterbury to the police headquarters and led the troopers back to the site, a mobile forensic lab with two states and two states attorneys and the Vermont

assistant chief medical examiner all came at once. They were like, this is what we're looking for here. They didn't release much info at first. The sergeant said that would be poor police work if I gave out information on an ongoing investigation. All he said was a gun was not found. They believe this is Paulette. He said he had a half dozen suspects, but he said he was no closer to an arrest than before she was found. He said, we have the body and that will give us a lot.

Hopefully. Yeah. That's good information to put on the news, too, because a guy like him, if you say no closer, that tells him, oh, I can stay here all day long. He won't take off to Florida or something. So she's been shot three times with a.32 caliber pistol. So she is still recognizable of what has happened. She's badly decomposed. But when they take her in for an autopsy, they find three bullets in her.

So that's how they figure that out, which is obviously horrible here. That's how they figure that out, which is obviously horrible here. Yeah. So now on this day, James Bork, who is who is Ed's boss. Yeah. He said he observed a distinct change in Ed's behavior when the news came over the radio that the body had been discovered. The body did not mention the exact location of Paulette's body. But town told bork he knew where it was in ducksberry because he had fished there even though they didn't say where it was yeah that's not good

no um so now the crickmore family these poor people um poor alan said he sat down and dinner that night and um he knew the body he knew the police found a body earlier that day and they were waiting to confirm it so he said you know this is a horrible he he said quote i'm sure it's her the description fits the clothes the clothing and the shoes are the same the double pierced ears and the body found right in this area how can you dispute that this poor man these poor fucking people um he was sitting at his dining room table watching the people's court and not watching it but that's what was on tv and they called up and um they told him about it and they said that it's just um everybody's calling at that point and people because they

heard a body was found so he said i'm having to tell everybody no we don't have a positive id thank you for calling. He said, quote, you wait and be damned. There's just nothing you can do. Just wait for the authorities to do their job. Man, that is fucking rough. That's a rough fucking thing to do. So he said once they figured out that it happened, he said, quote, Jesus Christ, why me again? I already lost one child.

Yeah. This poor guy. He said, you know, I always why me again? I already lost one child. This poor guy. He said, you know, I always thought that bad things happen to bad people. And if you were good, good things would happen to you. But that's not true. Bad things happen to good people. Oh, Jesus, Alan. His basic faith in the world is broken.

That's what it is. It's all ruined. His faith in how life works is nothing matters. You can be a good person and the worst shit will still happen to you. They can't get worse than this. So late November, 1986, right after this all happens,

there's a hunting trip where town is talking to Bork, his boss. And Bork says, we were, we were walking along an old log road and right out of the blue, Ed says something like, you know, I think the police are looking in the wrong direction for the murderer they should be looking for someone in construction why would he say something like that yeah he's like the fuck i

tell you what no you walk ahead ed don't walk behind me anymore i'll be back here so finally here december 2nd one month after he's arrested for a month and change after he's arrested for his federal shit here, a warrant is issued to search his residence in Eden Mills, his new house that he's building. They had searched his other house and found the rifles. Now, they issued the warrant based on the affidavit of a special agent of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, which referred to his October arrest. Now, December 3rd, they also talked to Paul Eder here, his girlfriend. Yeah. And she says that he purchased a.32 caliber handgun at a flea market in Waterbury

on the same date she had purchased a.25 caliber automatic from a gun shop in Rochester. And they examined the purchases of the gun shop, and the date was determined to be July 27, 1986. They also interview her son, Nelson North, he'll come up again, who said he was with Towne when Towne purchased the revolver in Waterbury. So, two people say this now. The investigation later revealed that John Tiemann of Barton sold the weapon to Towne on July 27th, and he said he identified them because he had asked for identification, obviously.

A description of North and Towne was also given by the guy selling the gun. The gun was described as a.32 caliber revolver with a break-open front. Town, Lewis, and North went to Fay's Gun Shop in Rochester, where Town purchased ammunition for the gun. December 5th into the 6th here. Okay. They search his house. They find a spring and plunger mechanism in a locked box. Huh?

We'll talk about that. That's to load a single shotgun, I believe. Oh. A 20 gauge shotgun barrel. These are all parts of guns. Yeah. A shitload of 22 caliber Winchester long rifle ammunition, a 30 winchester rifle another rifle a targa pistol all this type of shit here okay so this is all all of these are another charge on his federal

yeah it's just more ammunition shit stacking so on december 5th blaze obtained two gun two bullets that had been fired through the wall at his place of employment. Who fucks bucks off gunshots at work and you're allowed to do that? Is he waiting for everybody to leave and then he's firing rounds? I don't know what the fuck he's doing. They're not a letter in his file in HR about that. Don't let him take a gun in. They said that the Borkork said that town had fired

five live rounds into the wall at work now why is he still employed that's the thing what the fuck who the fuck keeps that guy there oh bork's afraid i guess one of the uh now uh one of the bullets was identified as matching all three bullets removed from Paulette's body. Oh, that's not good. That's not good at all. So Saturday night, December 6th, the state police get a search warrant to search his residence again, and a.32 caliber revolver is found, another one, inside a concrete block in the foundation. Oh, really? He put it in a block and then was gonna just just tuck it away

tuck it away yeah why not you put those cinder blocks sink it into the into the foundation nobody will ever find it that's it but he hadn't finished doing that yet oh no so the revolver was wrapped in a in an oily cloth and had three rounds three spent fucking shells in the cylinder. She shot three times. That's crazy. It's the exact murder weapon. And he just was going to bury the shells and the gun in the foundation. That's it. And they show this was the gun used in the killing.

This is the murder weapon here. So it's a.32 caliber Smith & Wesson, and he's a fucking idiot. That's where he hit it. Wow. So December 7th, he's arrested again here obviously he's ordered held bail on a hundred thousand dollar bail which seems low even for this guy incredibly low for having the murder weapon and three rounds in it there's no shit uh the public defender requests and it is given that he's ordered to be placed in the Vermont State Hospital in Waterbury where he'll undergo

a 60 day psychiatric evaluation to determine his competency. He appeared at his hearings dressed in fucking overalls. Get out of here. He dressed, he was in his work clothes. He's in his blue fucking work fucking

overalls. Overalls to court for the second time in small town murder history unbelievable he could not look more like a guy who murdered a fucking 15 year old when he walks into court he's even got like a like an old timey hat on that looks like a murderer hat it's ridiculous he's like he Ed Gein, he looks like, walking into court. He's big, too. He's a big guy. He also had the name Ed over the pocket of his shirt as well. Jesus Christ. Which is fucking hilarious.

That's frightening. He appeared fine. He sat there and sat with his arms folded. And he smiled as he signed his court papers for some reason. Really? I don't know what the hell he's smiling about. They ended up, you know, the prosecutor praised the police, said, I would like to express my thanks to the police, who it seems to me have worked 24 hours a day during the past

week. I would hope so here. They did say, though, they have not concluded this investigation because Paulette's backpack and flute are still missing. We don't know where they are. Where the fuck are they what did you do what did you do they never found them really found it never found it he wouldn't cough it up nobody wouldn't cough it up no uh they also make a press conference because

there's a couple other murderers and murders in the area and people are saying it's this guy so at the press conference uh blaze said that town had been ruled out as a suspect in two of the three unsolved homicides in this area. Said the police believed it was unlikely he was responsible for the murder of Sarah Hunter, a Manchester golf professional. So two of the bullets recovered from the wall match. It's Champion Alternator and starter company they match the gun matches that they found in the in the deal so 1987 january comes around and uh they're talking about how everybody seems relieved but now they're pissed off so they're relieved but pissed off because they're relieved because like this is this is an employee at the

high school says i'm sure you've heard it a thousand times i know how i'd feel if it were if it were my daughter i do commend the police i think they've done an excellent job so people were scared now they're not scared now they're pissed off because they have a place to they had nowhere to point their rage before they were just scared of what happened to them now that they're now they have pissed at him yeah now they're just mad and uh a girl named named rosie who's 13 who was went to school with paulette said that uh while she was relieved that someone had been arrested paulette's death has made a permanent change in her friends she said i feel i feel a lot better but i think it's been a big change now where i live when we go out we are only allowed

to go in pairs so now they have to go in which is good anyway that's good yeah why are you running around alone at 13 it's it was the 80s man yeah no i didn't that's the problem yeah i used to go wander off when i was like four i'd go wander off and just that pissed my parents off so now um his old prosecutor who prosecuted him in 1980 said he was not surprised to hear that he was arrested for this yeah he said it seemed pretty apparent to me that if he was released he was going to do it again yeah and he was released so he said when he heard of the 15 year old's disappearance this past september and the discovery of her body he said i, I immediately thought of Edtown. He said he passed his fears along to police officials involved,

and the police said, we're already thinking about him. Gotcha. We got him, yeah. We got that. So widespread outrage, obviously. Everybody wants to fucking kill this guy. They want to just go rip him apart, which is understandable. He's a fucking monster.

Paulette's parents want the death penalty back really yeah he her father says i believe the death penalty is a deterrent for the same reason i drive under the speed limit problem is speeding and killing aren't the same thing we've we've done the math on this and this this isn't a fucking stance pro or for or whatever. It does nothing for deterrent factor. The murder rates do not drop when they implement the death penalty. That's just a man really upset that he lost his daughter. Exactly.

Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. And the other point is, even if you get the death penalty back, it doesn't fucking go retroactive to five years ago and then everything that qualifies we get to retry it. So if we get it back, this guy still gets to live in prison forever. Yep. I mean, I totally get where this guy's coming from.

I understand. Jesus Christ, this poor bastard. I can't imagine what he's going through. But he did it in fucking Florida. They have the death penalty there. He did it in fucking Tennessee. They have the death penalty there. He does this shit all over the place. He doesn't care so they he said that imprisonment is not a

valid alternative for protecting society because so many convicted killers are paroled he said it's much easier to behave in prison than it is on the streets which i don't think that's how many convicted killers are paroled i mean a lot a lot of them. But not usually on, yeah, child murders and shit like that. Child murders in first degree? Maybe then. Sex predator and murder? That's fucking aggravator of life forever. Yeah, no shit.

He said in no case should a convicted murderer be allowed back on the streets. No case? No case. That's kind of crazy. In some cases you go, hell, I mean, Jesus, he was 17. He robbed a liquor store like an idiot. I don't know. Or they were holding a gun on him.

I don't know. Yeah. To nobody who kidnaps a 15 year old and rapes and kills her. Nobody thinks they should ever get out. Nobody believes that. No one does. Nobody believes that person is rehabilitative. Never.

So there's also criticisms of the sex offender program like crazy. The guy who ran it, this Turner guy, says he expects an onslaught of criticism about Towns early releases. He says it's one of those things in a high risk program like we have. The program is one of the best in the United States. I firmly believe that. I still do. Everyone in the program is feeling bad about this. A young girl was killed.

We are not infallible. At least he took it on the chin.'s good i mean what are you gonna do man it's it's a who who thinks they can do this a hundred percent of the time you know what i mean yeah that's you're not that's impossible anything on your percent like i said hall of fame or three out of ten yeah this the problem is if you don't hit every time guys get left on base yeah that's the worst that could happen this here yeah i'll bet it's easier to hit a slider than it is to stop a man from rape and murdering on his own time on his own time is important there so for the firearms violations because they're going to try him first right away on that and get him locked up so that they can they can relax and take their time with the murder because he's locked up. He is charged with two counts of receiving and possessing a firearm after a prior felony conviction in violation of whatever code there.

Three counts of receiving and possessing a firearm and ammunition after a prior felony conviction in violation of another code. a firearm and ammunition after a prior felony conviction in violation of another code and also three counts of receiving and possessing a firearm and ammunition after a prior felony in violation of another code. There's a three-day jury trial. He is found guilty on all counts except count seven, which is fine because it was like nine counts, so that's fine. Count seven, which is fine because it was like nine counts. So that's fine.

He is sentenced to at that point. You, sir, may fuck off a total of 70 years in prison. Terrific. Just for having those guns. Got him. Fucked. He's fucked. But I mean, you could still get parole and you don't want this guy out ever. So we got to try him for murder here.

Have to. Yeah. But it's a little easier to breathe because, you know, you can chill here. January 1989 is the murder trial. So it's a little easier to breathe because you know you can chill here january 1989 is the murder trial so it's a couple years they wait um there's now during jury selection there's new info that stops jury selection and it's fucking tracks which is hard this was the fourth day of jury selection and um they had they said 19 bennington county residents 14 of whom had passed through the first two rounds of questioning, were sequestered at the Paradise Motor Inn for the weekend. Oh, God. Jesus.

Hey, listen. Can I get my own hotel room? I understand we're sequestered, but I'm not staying at the Paradise Motor Inn. Can I book it? That name sounds sarcastic. Let's call it Paradise. That name sounds sarcastic. Let's call it paradise.

You can't put those words together and convince anybody, that's for sure. That's really paradise. So the jury selection here was suspended late Friday afternoon after the prosecution brought to light new information that may partially absolve Town of Guilt. This is exculpatory information that the prosecution brings out because they have to. Otherwise, it's a fucking violation. So the information is not direct evidence, they said. They told the court, but fourth-hand hearsay. But they still had to bring it up. So it's something somebody said. They also added, this is the state's attorney here, that the hearsay offered by two witnesses in the case is inculpatory in nature.

So they're saying it makes him more guilty. Or it may – oh, it's inculpatory not necessarily to him, but it may implicate another person in the murder. Got it. Okay. So, yeah. Alternate suspect. Got it. OK. So, yeah. Alternate suspect. So, yeah, the district judge reluctantly agreed to adjourn at the request of the state's attorney who said that the defense or town's attorney who said that the defense needed time to investigate this information.

They had planned to work into the evening selecting the final jurors and be done and ready to fucking go Monday. But now they have to wait till Monday to finish this. So they said, we must ask for a full weekend to investigate it. We don't know what's going to happen Monday morning after a weekend of investigation. They said, this is going to help his alibi defense and also implicate others in the crime,

including an inmate, a prison inmate here named Joseph Callahan, who allegedly confessed to the murder. They're saying, we got a guy confessing to this shit. He's already in jail. So the trial starts, they find out that's bullshit and it's

still this guy. He must have buried it in the foundation of your house. He put that gun in there. Now this trial is the first major Vermont trial to be filmed. Really? So this is no sketch, people. This is video cameras broadcasting live and still cameras as well.

Incredible. This is a big deal. This is a two-year experiment that's going to be overseen by the Vermont Supreme Court. Two-year experiment that's going to be overseen by the Vermont Supreme Court. One still photographer, one camera operator per court may record proceedings as long as they are quiet and do not disturb anything. Wonderful. Can't be fucking around being like, somebody, hey, memory card change. Anybody have an extra battery?

Who's dumping footage? Come on. Who's the dump guy today? Who's got batteries? Let's go. Nine volts? Come on. So during the opening, the state's attorney, Janet Murnane, told the jury that the state witnesses would tell the story of a horrific yet real crime. She says, we are here about a murder.

It's not a film and it's not a show you can turn off when it begins to frighten you or make you sad. It's real life. Yes. No shit. That's our actual motto for this show. Yeah. This isn't something that you can turn off when it begins to frighten you or make you sad. It's real life.

Keep it going. That's what we tell. That would be way less popular. Way less popular than shut up and give me murder, I feel like. I feel like we're a little more snappy. You know what I mean? Just a little bit more. This is real life.

It's real life. Bitch is a lot different. Cheer up, bitch. It's real life. Isn't as good. So one of his court appointed attorneys countered that the state was prosecuting the wrong man in his opening. He said, you only have one piece of evidence at this point, and that's Edward Towne is presumed. And that is that Edward Town town is presumed and and uh that is that

edward town is presumed innocent my client edward town did not kill paulette crickmore edward town is not only presumed innocent edward town is innocent is that right that's what he said yeah he said suspicion against um the real suspicion you're going to find is against actually Towne's girlfriend's son, Mr. North, Nelson North. He's the guy you want to look at. That's who put that gun there. It's him. Yeah. He said that she's going to testify to try to clear her son, but they said this.

That's the girlfriend. They said this, the defense. A young man who hates Mr. Towne. A young man who will take the stand and lie to save his own skin. Is that right? That's him, boy. Now, his past criminal record, he's been busted, too. He has a criminal record.

Not quite as prolific, impressive, prolific and horrifying as Ed. But his is he once drove with a suspended license oh is that right not quite the same criminal records but the defense is like he's got a criminal record it's a bad man he's a terrible man he might have like not fucking it's a real renewed his license forgot to renew it forgot to pay his ticket once and some shit so uh they said that the defense is not obligated to find the real murderer also. He said, even though there's a television here, this is not Perry Mason. Someone is not going to stand up in the back of the courtroom, raise their right hand and shout, I did it, I did it. The issue is whether or not there exists a possibility in your mind that someone else did it.

We all must acknowledge the tragedy and the shame of the senseless taking of life. But we must not compound that tragedy or reinforce that shame by convicting Mr. Towne of a murder he didn't commit. Duh. Geez. So Blaze testifies here. And in cross-examination, the defense attempts to discredit him by pointing out discrepancies between his written reports and courtroom testimony. According to the defense, Blaze wrote in his report that Towne possibly was on the Jericho Road the morning of Crickmore's murder. personal hatred for Ed. In his last question, Alan asked Blaze whether he had told another officer he'd like to wire Townes' genitals to a railroad track.

Is it true that you said that? That's very creative. I've got to give him credit, too. He told us I'd like to wire his balls to a railroad track. That's awesome. How would you not say that? Pretty impressive, yeah. Everybody listening right now, how many of you would love to wire his genitals to a railroad track?

I would say it's in the 99th percentile. It's everybody. With barbed wire. I want to use that. Yeah, as damaging as it could be. Jesus. So then Donald Bork testifies. That's Ed's boss here.

He testifies that he turned informant for detectives after a while. Really? That's what he was doing. He was the one who found the two bullets that helped tie him to the murder. That's how they found him. And during the more than two hours he was on the stand, Donald

Bork testified that Towne came to work with scratches on his face shortly after she disappeared on her way to school. That's not good. That's terrible. He also described town's distress upon hearing the radio news that the body was found. Quote, as the radio announcement about Cricmore came on, Ed turned around and turned up the radio. And as he was listening, he looked straight down at his bench and he listened to the whole thing. And when it was done, he turned up the radio and as he was listening he looked straight down at his bench and he listened to the whole thing and when it was done he turned off the radio then we made eye

contact and it seemed he changed like uh-oh he also testified that town laughed while telling him about how the girl's body was discovered what the hell's funny about that he said the very next day ed opened up the shop that morning he said to me uh you know how they found that girl well a hunter was going up through the woods and he said gee there's a perfectly good set of jeans and then ed started laughing he was making jokes about it like that guy thought he was had a new pair of dark jokes yeah like dark fucking jokes like cops make at murder scenes but they usually don't make them at 15-year-old girls raping murder scenes. That's the difference there.

You do that when you find a crack dealer who was in a beef with another crack dealer. Dad, you go, well, he's never going to chance. Those are some expensive Jordans for a guy who ain't going to use them. You know, like shit like that. But not now. Those are brand new. What a waste. Yeah.

Is that a brand new tattoo he what is that it's not look it's not even done yet look at that he's still gotta do more shading could have been a bad tattoo he's got shading to do fuck this guy that artist got paid uh the the defense attorney though hasn't made in the shade here now you can turn it and make it look like bork did it bork's the one that's handing you over bullets bork's the one that says that he knew where the body was bork saying all this he knows shit but they're they're pointing it at nelson north instead though unbelievable problem yeah um so they were the two bullets here like they said they matched they brought that up and they said they asked him why did you look inside your business and he said well because ed was a pack rat ed i believe saved everything the

man didn't throw anything away the more i thought about it the more i thought it was possible the murder weapon was in the shop he said i went back to work and mr town told me there was a girl missing in richmond and i got a weird feeling about it at the time so they bring in shrinks here psychiatrist expert witnesses for the state here the one guy is dr william woodruff he's a psychiatrist and a consultant to the corrections department he said the town was depressed and angry and felt rejected but he's not insane he's his defense is insanity or somebody else did it. Really? That's his defense. He's crazy and innocent. So he said he's a disturbed man. He is someone who is psychosexually disturbed. Psychosexually disturbed.

How'd you like to have a man with doctor before his name say that in front of a fucking, in front of a television camera? He's a disturbed man, that Jimmy Wissman. He's someone who's psychosexually disturbed like oh god that's terrible shut up stop saying it i knew it damn it fuck i knew something was wrong with me jesus christ that explains so much oh man he says mr town came from the bottom of the socio-economic. It was a very disturbed family setting. So there you go. There's another thing there.

While attempting to do this, this is very interesting. There is a photograph from a surveillance camera at the bank. He went to the bank here with what appeared to be a revolver sticking out of his back pocket. So they're fighting to see whether this photo is allowed in because it looks like there's a revolver, but they don't know for sure. Yeah. So the defense objected, obviously, saying that there's an invitation for conjecture, but shows no clear evidence of him carrying a gun. The judge ruled, admit the photographs, and it's up to the jury to decide whether they think it's a gun in his pocket or not. Really?

Yeah. He said, I agree the photographs speak for themselves. It would be a determination of fact for the jury to make, not me. They can decide what they think is in his pocket, which sounds gross for this guy especially. But they mean a gun. So the defense here, they only present two witnesses and then they rest their case. Really? One, and neither of them are him.

No. God, are you going to put this fucking idiot on the stand? Jesus Christ. One told the jury that Towne bought gas at a South Burlington gas station on the morning she disappeared. The other witness, an FBI agent, testified that hair samples from Towne's pickup truck did not match Crickmore's. Okay, so he wasn't there and doesn't have her blonde hair

or brown hair in his truck. Exactly. Okay. So, okay. They also blamed the girlfriend's son, Nelson North. That's the big thing. They said he had access to the weapon and lied when questioned about the killing. Which I don't know. also said that um he took this north had taken the stand and they obviously accused him on the stand and he denied it he said he helped town build the cinder block

foundation where the gun was found but he was working on a roof in winooski on the day that crickmore vanished i was on a fucking roof you can ask other people who saw me standing above them yeah if you're up that high it even makes you less likely to be able to commit the murder yeah on a fucking roof i'm stowed away yeah there he is everyone can glance up there you can't get off the roof without people noticing so he said i don't know anything about that um a property owner near there who hired North also said that he didn't want to pay North that day because he said, I couldn't tell. I could tell they didn't do eight hours of work. So they were saying, well, there you go.

There's a guy saying you didn't do eight hours of work that day. He just said, I looked at the job and said I could tell they quit early. He just said, I looked at the job and said I could tell they quit early. But the bookkeeper for this guy said that she saw North on the roof at about 11 a.m., covered in tar, and appeared to have been doing a substantial amount of work for the last two hours. He'd been hot mopping for a while. You could tell that he's been up there. So, yeah, he's the 29-year-old son of Paul Eder Lewis,is who lived with town so she must be he's 20 okay town is 34 and his girlfriend's son is 29 29 what the fuck how old is his girlfriend i don't fucking know but she's gotta be at least 44 at least um. Yeah, who knows?

The defense also tried to show that North resented the relationship he had with his mother because they were around the same age. Another move to implicate North was the introduction of a Vermont car registration in which he claimed he bought a car from town on September 11th, 86. The purchase actually was made before Paulette vanished and North got rid of the car soon after. So they're like, see, he picked her up and fucking dumped the car. And he said, quote, hey, I go through cars like I go through water.

Really? I'm just like, yeah. Eight a day? Eight a day. That is fucking amazing. What a terrible thing to say nobody believes that banging him out his eight glasses of fucking of cars a day he said that he was his alibi was also bolstered when a richmond police officer under cross-examination by the district attorney said that jericho road would be out of the way for someone going from central richmond to winooski which is where he was working.

Unless you're a predator and that's a great reason to be down there. That'd be terrific. Now, in the closing arguments, the prosecutor said the state had presented a shitload of circumstantial evidence, including the fact that he owned the gun used to kill him. It's a single shot pistol, by the way. What? It's a.'s a single shot pistol by the way what it's a 32 caliber single shot so the three shells were wrapped up in the oil clap in the oily rag he saved even what the fuck like a fucking idiot he saved i guess because he figured they didn't he didn't want the evidence to be out there it's a plug it in flip it closed pop open it up take it out plug it in flip it

closed what the fuck man while a girl is writhing for her life on the ground oh my god the prosecutor said open load fire open load fire open load fire that's what he had to do to kill her and keep the fucking shell. Yeah. So that nobody has unbelievable. He said it was a single shot pistol. The killer had to pry out the bullet, reload and fire a second, then a third time. It was a cold blooded premeditated murder.

There's only one verdict you can come back with in this case of horrendous violence. And that verdict is guilty. Now, his lawyer said the evidence failed to show that Towne had killed Paulette. They also tried to show that it could be Nelson North. So, you know, come on. Judge tells the jurors that they could either find him guilty of first-degree murder

or find him not guilty. There is nothing in the middle. Yeah, that's it. The prosecution had planned to ask the jurors be given the opportunity to find him guilty of either first or second degree murder but withdrew the request after objections by the defense lawyers really so it's all or nothing here um which i think if you think he did it it's it's it's fucking pre-planned i mean she's dead with that gun. He has the gun. What are you going to do, man? Yeah.

With a history of this kind of shit. And if you silence them and kill them, then you don't go to prison. Hey, look at that. The answer is right on the tip. I mean, it's right there. You don't have what happened to me before happen again. Yeah. So the judge explains to the jurors they need to be sure beyond all reasonable doubt.

He said that beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean beyond all doubt. It does mean that the proof is so convincing that you would not hesitate to act on it in your own personal lives or the lives of your family. Suspicion alone does not constitute reasonable doubt. So would you murder a guy over this or not is basically it. out. So would you murder a guy over this or not is basically it. So the judge told the jurors that the burden of proof is with the state, obviously, and the jurors should not view Towne's refusal to testify and to provide hair samples as evidence against him because he didn't want to provide hair samples either. They said Towne is presumed innocent. He doesn't have to prove he's innocent. The state has to prove he's guilty. So there you go. He kept saying, he said,

convict him of first degree murder. They must find the state has proven all the four essential elements of the case. If not, they said he has to be, first, he killed her. Second, he did so willfully. Third, with malice. A forethought.

And fourth, with premeditation. Find only three elements and it must be not guilty. Wow. Because it's first or nothing. So if they think he didn't plan it, but they think he did it, they got to find him not guilty. Not guilty. Oh, boy.

That's wild. So, I mean, he's already in for 70 years, but still. Yeah. So they said that the malice of forethought deals with the intent at the time of the killing, a callous wanton disregard for human life. Malice is a condition of heart or mind. It can only be determined by inference. Premeditation requires a period of time in which the accused thinks things over. No fixed amount of time is involved.

To me, if you're driving her to the woods, you have a gun, and you end up shooting her, you drove her out there to shoot her, that whole drive is your premeditation. That's all done on purpose. I don't care if you weren't planning on killing someone until you saw her. Then you went, I'll grab her. As soon as you grabbed her, you were going to kill her. And you knew it. That's what fucking happened. Or she fought him because he had scratches. So she might have just been like, I ain't having any of this shit.

She didn't say like, oh, I'll go along with it. She said, I'm 15 and get the fuck away from me. And he might have just shot her after that. Said, fuck, I'll go along with it. She said, I'm 15 and get the fuck away from me. Yeah. And he might have just shot her after that. Said, fuck it. It's not worth it. So the deliberations were going on for three and a half hours before the judge calls it and sends them to the Paradise Motor Inn fucking hotel for the night. Go have a sleep.

Yep. So the jury's scheduled to come back and deliberate again the next day. The next day they reach a verdict. Yeah. Here we go, everybody. The verdict here is guilty of first-degree murder. They do find him guilty. Yeah.

So during sentencing, the judge dismisses any notion of rehabilitation for him at all. It's impossible. Yeah. He said the town has no compassion or feeling of any kind in the death of Paulette Crickmore. He said, quote, this is one of those rare cases

which calls for life, which really means life. The whole state of Vermont in a small way was traumatized by this event. You, sir, may fuck off. Life without parole. It's over for over for him eat all plus 70 fucking federal eat every dick possible you fucking scumbag enjoy it sore yeah so he continued to deny the charge

that's the part that makes it the judge's words a hundred percent true that's it right there he continued to deny. Afterwards, when they took him out, he was asked by reporters, town was, about the sentence. And he said, it would have been nice if I was guilty. It would have been nice. Yeah, it would have been a great sentence if I was guilty, but I'm not. Now, according to one juror, they talked to the jurors, early in deliberations. The lack of direct evidence actually raised a doubt about his guilt to them. This wasn't all guilt guilt because, yeah, they I mean, three and a half hours is longer than this takes to if everyone's in agreement.

So and then they went to a hotel and came back the next day. So they said so did the defense claims that Nelson North, who could have had access to the gun and whose alibi was not airtight and also who had fought with town. They didn't get along. So it's very possible he was the killer, they thought. They said, but it was a process of elimination. One juror said they said we determined that town was the only person that had access to the weapon. that had access to the weapon. He was the only person that had a long period of time unaccounted for, which was from 7.30 a.m.

in the day in question when Towne's girlfriend said that he dropped her off at the Shelburne Museum to 9.40 p.m. when he got cash from a South Burlington bank machine. That's the whole goddamn day? It's 14 hours. That's a long time of being unaccounted for. You can do a lot in 14 hours.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can kill 10 people. You can get your whole life back together. Yeah, 14 hours is big time. And she was last seen 8.20 a.m., so plenty of time in there. North said he spent the day tarring the roof, and obviously there was contradictory evidence as to what hours he worked, but the witness placing him there late morning covered in tar and looking tired from working,

they believed that. They said the jurors decided it made no sense to think North could go from his Richmond home up Jericho Road, the wrong route to where he was going, pick up a girl, kill her, dump the body in another place in the woods, then race to be seen at work covered in tar by 1105. That's a tough sell. It's almost impossible. Much easier. Yeah.

Much easier. It's the guy sell. Much easier. Yeah. Much easier that it's the guy who has a history of this, plenty of opportunity, and then had the gun in his pocket at the end of the night. Maybe there. So in 1998, he wants to prove his innocence. Really?

1998. He's got a campaign to overturn the conviction. And he said, I will keep going till I prove I'm innocent, he says in a jail interview. Really? Absolutely. He said he didn't do it. He maintained his innocence. It's ridiculous. And he's in there. So he didn't do it. 2002.

He now appeals saying his plea agreement was breached. Remember the warrant that was supposed to be squashed? This is becoming an issue. He said he's seeking damages for the state's alleged breach of plea agreement. The damages were not an available remedy for the alleged breach of agreement. So they're like, we're not going to dismiss a murder trial over that, basically, over the bad search for the guns. That's the most you're going to get out of agreement. So they're like, you're, we're not going to dismiss a murder trial over that basically over the bad search for the guns. That's the most you're going to get out of that.

So they said that, uh, even if the state had engaged in misrepresentation as plaintiff claimed, he did not suffer a legally cognizable injury. So it's not legally hurting him. So then he appealed that and the trial court, uh, concludes that damages are not

available remedy for that again so he this is what he was suing for uh-huh to um obviously you know redo his case and 140 million dollars in damages and injuries 140 million dollars you're literally a rapist and that is a crime like this. And but we can't say that. Is that what he's saying? Hundred and forty million. They hurt me. So 2006, there are more area rapes.

And the controversy over the sentencing of him has caused a lot of debate over punishment, treatment and victims rights. There was a guy named Mark Hewlett who got a three-year sentence for child molestation. And they said this case claims needs for stiffer laws that protect victims. And they talk about one of those people now is Alan Crickmore. He's involved in this whole thing. Really? And he's saying he hasn't talked about his daughter's death much in the last 20 years, but he has to speak out that this is going now. He said it goes by very slow.

You think about it every day. I've always felt that if I if he had been kept longer, my daughter might still be alive. Well, yeah, she would. They went across paths. That's a fact. So he said that he's speaking out about the sentencing of the Mark Hewlett guy. He said it hurts. It hurts to see a sentence like that that doesn't do justice to the victims

of the families. The judge originally gave the guy a minimum sentence of 60 days in jail for raping a young girl for years. That way, Hewlett could get immediate sex offender treatment. How about, do your time,

then we'll get you sex offender treatment on the end of your time then we'll get your sex offender treatment on the end and the end of your time or or put him in jail for a while and give him a sentence that'll teach him a lesson but also while he's in there have a sex offender treatment have all of it yeah so the judge increased the sentence to a minimum of three years though and alan said it's still not good enough a three-year sentence man that's outrageous Nothing really angered me as much as this sentence, and I felt compelled to come out of that shell and say, wait a minute, folks, something's got to be done here. A minimum of 25 years would keep them off the streets and keep them away from our kids. If he had guidelines he was forced to go by, it would have made his decision easier and a whole lot better for everybody else.

He also says the state needs to provide better treatment for sex offenders. He said they must be kept in jail until there's a way to guarantee they won't offend again. Well, that's impossible. What are you going to do? You'll, you'll never get that.

You don't know what's in someone's mind. You can't have a thousand. That's crazy. Uh, he agrees with some lawmakers and police who are calling for civil commitment that would allow the state to hold the most dangerous offenders even after their jail terms are up for as long as they feel that they're a danger. But also if they feel they're not a danger, they can let them out. So that's the problem.

But he's got life without parole. So, Edwin, it doesn't matter. If you have a person determining whether or not somebody is dangerous, eventually they're going to fall prey to a manipulator who creates an illusion that they're fine. And that person is going to do bad shit. Some people seem fine. What was the guy who wrote that book into the belly of the beast book he wrote? He was a famous guy in the 70s, I believe. He was a prisoner that wrote this book that was this beloved book that was all about prison.

And he got all these people, lawmakers, celebrities, people came to his cause to get him released because he's a changed man and he's an artist now and he's doing all these great things. They got his sentence reduced. He gets out and immediately was in a restaurant, got in an argument and stabbed a waiter to death. Like immediately,

like within a year of him being out. So it's like, it sucks. And then some people, they're fine. They never bother anybody again. You never know. That's the problem.

So 2009, he appeals again. And that appeal goes by the wayside. From 2011 to 2013, he's trying to get DNA testing done. He wants to use modern DNA testing technology that's developed a lot to reanalyze hair evidence from the case. be tested for mitochondrial DNA. If the results matched neither her nor him, he asked that the authorities be ordered to obtain a sample from... The guy that found the body.

No, the girlfriend's son. Son. Yeah. Nelson North. He really wants Nelson in prison for this. Because he's the only one who could have possibly had access to the gun. He can't pin it on anybody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The gun matters. It's him or nothing. So after reviewing the evidence, the court rejects his testing request and granted the state's motion for summary judgment because the petitioner could not show reasonable probability that DNA results from the hair would have resulted in a different outcome at trial. They said that they could not compel the son to produce a sample. He's not under arrest or anything, but it held that even if the son voluntarily did it or if the son's DNA was already present in the DNA computer registry for comparison, all that can be said with a reasonable doubt is that the DNA evidence shows that the son's hair was present at the scene, which would

be a point in favor of the defense, but not enough to overturn anything. It doesn't slam dunk it because Nelson also lives in your house and that hair could have been on your body. There you go. Could have fell off your jacket right on to where it's very possible. Everywhere I've been, there's a trail of Frankie's hair. There's white hairs everywhere from that. So that's how that goes. So they said the presence of the hair would only open a range of possible explanations without excluding the guy who's already convicted. So they said, yeah, as a part of his request for this, he posits that his ex-girlfriend's son had all the means and opportunity.

And that's what he's talking about. So the high court ruled that he had not shown a high probability that even if the evidence had appeared to be in his favor, it would result in the conviction being overturned. He said there was other strong evidence in the case. So he appeals that appeal. Oh, my God. And contends the trial court misapprehended the applicable standard and for granting post conviction relief. And the DNA results would, in fact, lead to a reasonable possibility and probability of

a more favorable outcome. And they tell him to get fucked again. Keep on keeping on, dickhead. So 2018, he's in a federal penitentiary in Adelanto, California. Really? Yes, for the gun charges. He still belongs to the feds at that point. So he hasn't even started his fucking murder. Oh, boy.

Thing yet. So he can get that overturned. They're still going to hang on to him for a while. He still weren't supposed to have a gun, man. So they he's fucking with the Vermont Supreme Court, who upheld upholds a decision to reject his recent complaint that he did not have proper access to legal materials. that he did not have proper access to legal materials. He said he needs access to legal materials to work on his appeals, and they told him, fuck off, basically.

They said you don't get the library unless you can prove you need a library, but you can't prove that you need one unless you have access to one. But tough shit. He's in there, fuck off, and he's staying in there. So he's never getting out, thankfully, for the rest of the world. That man is going to sit there and file appeal after appeal for the rest of his shitty days. Nothing better to do? Do it. I dare you.

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Live shows. Full slate of live shows for 2024, which is only 12. And two of them are sold out already. Phoenix and Nashville, your ass out. I apologize. Phoenix, Christ, they even sold our fucking comps in Phoenix. I got to figure out a way to get my family in there now. So you guys are awesome.

Thank you for doing that. Get your tickets early. Really get them early. Like we said, even Boston and New York in December are already selling. Unbelievable. Very fast. So get your tickets there. September. Not September. get them early uh like we said even boston and new york in december are already selling unbelievable very fast so get your tickets there september i'm not not september april 5th and 6th our first shows sacramento san francisco you're on the clock right now guys and our biggest show of all time could be in minneapolis it might be if you sell this out, it will be our biggest show we've ever done.

So previously it was Chicago. Don't you – would you rather have a say? It's pretty amazing that they do that. What's your biggest show? Chicago or Minneapolis? Come on, Minneapolis. You know what the answer to that is. It's the Midwest. It's there.

Sell that out. A big difference though there, especially people in Minneapolis. They don't want to be compared. So there you go. Shut up and give me murder.com. Big difference, though, there, especially people in Minneapolis. They don't want to be compared. So there you go. ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Also look out on ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com because this month the tickets for the virtual live show are going on sale. We'll have an exact date for you next week.

But virtual live show, it is 420, obviously, virtual live show. We're going to dress up. I have bought all sorts of weird shit to smoke out of that jimmy will not be will be terrified of i'll be shocked and it's our regular crazy live murder show as well with all the pictures that you normally get and it's a it's a goddamn blast it's a big party everybody talks in the comments hang out if you haven't done it before do it this time because it's so much fun uh we'll get into all of that. Also, if you listen on Apple Podcasts, little show note here, they did an update. And what it did is stopped shit from automatically downloading. So if you like your shows to automatically download, like our show, if you go, where the fuck is it?

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listen to your stupid opinions while you're at it. But Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports, all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're going to get a huge back catalog, a couple hundred-plus episodes, new episodes every other week, one Crime and Sports, one Small Town Murder, and they're all yours, baby. Absolutely. This week what we're talking about for Crime and Sports,

we're going to talk about the strangest injuries in sports history, which is a lot of fun and weird and crazy then for small town murder one of the favorites it's a back by popular demand old-timey murders where we dip into the newspaper archives and go into like the late 1800s early 1900s and get some weird shit that people do to each other yeah but the paper is ultra graphic about so really fun stuff that is uh patreon.com slash crime in sports and in addition to that you get a shout out where jimmy fucks up your name and guess when you get that shout out right now right motherfucking now jimmy hit me with the names of the most wonderful people that we could possibly hope for and imagine to have this week's

executive producer jordan bennett alinea montroy happy birthday alinea alinea alinea alinea alinea i don't know nathan you guys are fantastic truly thank you for going above and beyond you don't have to do as much as you do and you do it anyway and we gotta fucking say thank you you're incredible other producers this week are liz vasquez janice hill rebecca sorenson adkins acres golden retriever pups hey thank you oh all right retrievers that's me you suck wang also james is a person who donated oh yeah okay suck wang james i do i? I don't know. Whoever does? Whoever wrote it. Oh, that's all right.

Schmooples, Devourer of Mortal Souls. Hey, listen. You ask Wang, and he's going to tell you how good it is, so go fuck yourself. Stuffer Cold, Tuna Casserole. Oh, boy. All right. Ben Goats, Jennifer Sauter, I think. C-Stir.

C, the letter C, and then S-T, oh, Seaster, Seaster. This episode brought to you by the letter C. And your Seaster. Alasia Kreestar Darling Edgington, Robin with no last name, Jay with no last name, Hayley Bright, Zach Nicholas, Vicky Spooey, no, Suey, yikes, sorry about that. Messed that one up good. Who says gross? Kayla Boyles, Hannah Juergens, Nikki Coakley, James Rasmussen, Darren with no last name,

Brandon Eisenbacher, Nicole Wright, Cecil with no last name, also Cecil Brown. Probably the same person. I can't imagine. Dual Cecils. Two Cecils signed up. Only one Cecil. Fight to the death, Cecils. I appreciate you having two of these. You're a darling. One Cecil's. Two Cecil's signed up. Only one Cecil. Fight to the death, Cecil's. I appreciate you having two of these.

You're a darling. One Cecil. One Cecil. Dominate the other one. Alyssa Ilchert. There may only be one. T. Nonny Chuss. Nonny.

There can only be one, Jimmy. Yes, there can only be one. Sidney Hunter. Carl Zart. Shannon Laith. Sean Dwyer. Paulo. Paulo.

Paulo. Polo. How do you say that, James?ith, Sean Dwyer, Paolo, Paolo, Paolo, Paolo. How do you say that, James? Paolo, right? Paolo? P-A-O-L-O. Yes, Paolo. P-A-O-L-O. Paolo.

Yeah. Turco, Jeremy Galleta, Victoria Darnell, Hunter with no last name, Kim with no last name, Caitlin Lackey, Casey Hostert, Aimkos, Aimkos with no last name. Caitlin Lackey. Casey Hostert. I'm Amkos. Amkos with no last name. Dana Hunter. Sydney with no last name. Trina Montesmith. Jamie Cunningham.

Roman Massey. Jarrett Fowlers. Nope, that's Flowers. Kristen House. Kelly Magapat. Magapat? Mago Pat. Jaina.

Jaina. Jaina Kopecky. Kopecky. Lowell Stevens. Rowdy McElfresh mckell fresh lacey jones feeling feeling failing gilligan galligan oh jesus mother fuck melissa mcclay katie diane dione dione dione dione lane with no last name alan with no last name. Allen with no last name. Hillary Polito. Aurora with no last name. Diane Rangel. Deezy Chavez. Steph Quek. Joseph Bruto.

Lindsey Richardson. April Criswell. Robin Swain. Bailey Hurst. Nicole with no last name. Rob with no last name. Alyssa Morris. A. Casey.

War Wolf. Moira. Moira Speroni. JJ with no last name. Mike Litteris. You son of a bitch. Mike Litteris. You son of a bitch. Mike Litteris, okay. Angie McCord, Laura Davis, Lea Pyle, Sol Bleach.

Better than Hunt, I guess. It is, yeah. Bill Schmansky, Alex Lenz, Ernest Banks. Oh, is that right? Ernie, Jeff Hendren, Sean and Nelson. Jeff with no last name. Hillary Ocker, Eric Ferris, Al Bundy's love child. Stephanie Roy, Roy Harrow, Leon, Leon, Toy Thomas, Thomas Lloyd, Christy Pappas, Sean.

Nope, that's Sarah. Trees, Sean and Sarah. Same thing. Same thing. Spencer Clark, Nate Gross Nicholas. papus sean nope that's sarah uh trees sean and sarah same thing uh spencer clark uh nate uh gross nicholas that's uh saint nicholas's terrible brother angelica franja francia not as nice frank frank asheni's miss tess uh skills amazon packages off your porch. Rather than leaving gifts, that's gross necklaces. Bizarro Santa. Sorry. Gabrielle McClanahan. Rue's other kid.

Yeah, that's Rue's child there. Adam Beard. Melissa Altman. Eli. Eli Boussajour. Avery Brown. Dylan Ellis. Pamela with no last name.

Sama. Santa. Santa selling pa? What? Carla Walsh. Punky Brewster. Okay. Avery Brown, Dylan Ellis, Pamela with no last name, Sama, Santa, Santa Sillin' Pa, what? Carla Walsh, Punky Brewster. Okay, Eileen Chiasan. Nice to see she's back. It's been a while. Paris Morris.

There was a run of mischievous girls. There was her and Pippi Longstocking. Punky. It was a good time. Yeah, mischievous orphan girls. Just being little shits. Super orphans all the time. Orphans were big in the 80s they really were webster different strokes punky there's fucking pound them out broken homes it's so funny yeah lana finagle young

what is this name long long finetical longical long fanatical long fanatical fangel i thought you said yom kippur wong i was like that's the strangest name i've ever heard as close as i'll ever get half jewish half chinese that's me how's everybody doing they know who they are it's a lot of w's n's and g's yes fabulous 35 test shaffer kaylee Ashenfelter, Pete Petticone, Kate the Great, James Coccaro, Hannah Kelly, Michelle Roberts, Katie Baker, Bex Wagner, David Lisa, Ashton Lambeth, Tiara Marie, Jen with no last name, Alana Hall, Nick Burkett, Caitlin Uecker. I hope you're related to Bob. That'd be amazing.

Joshua Gifford. I wish. God damn it, I wish. Chevy would know last name. Adam Norbudas. Probably. Nikki. Nikki Doches.

Nikki Doches. Courtney Hish. Devin Marie. Bree would know last name. Angela Fedor. Feeder. Feeder. Chris Freiss.

Freiss, maybe. Chelsea Schrauner, Schrauner. All right. Joshua Fisher, Austin D., Scotty Barbour, Barbour, Barbour. Alex Alexis, Pedragon. Joe Talberg, Lance from Quitman. Abby with no last name. Killian Long Ross, Athey, Athey.

Kaylin Chastain, Money Muscle, Carol Abbas, and all of our patrons. Obviously, you guys are amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much, everybody. God damn it, we love you guys so much for all you do for us. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Keep hanging out with us. If you want to follow us on social media,

shut up and give me murder.com, drop down menu, links are all there. Have fun, keep coming back keep seeing us get your tickets and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. Or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.