Small Town Murder - #489 - Psycho Stepmom - Edgerton, Kansas

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

This week, in Edgerton, Kansas, a wild family dynamic leads to fighting, insults, bad feelings, and eventually a dastardly murder plot, from the person you'd least expect. As cruel & brutal as it was, it was almost the perfect crime, but when the body is stumbled upon, the whole web of lies comes crumbling down, turning a mother against her son, and a daughter against her mother. The whole thing is just a huge mess, and as crazy a story you'll ever find!!Along the way, we find out that everybody has a "Frontier Days" festival, that when your mother tells you that someone has to die, you don't have much choice, and that love & a refusal to accept reality can apparently conquer all, including the murder of your son!!Hosted by James Pietragallo and Jimmie WhismanNew episodes every Thursday!Donate at: patreon.com/crimeinsports or go to paypal.com and use our email: [e-mail] to shutupandgivememurder.com for all things Small Town Murder & Crime In Sports!Follow us on...twitter.com/@murdersmallfacebook.com/smalltownpodinstagram.com/smalltownmurderAlso, check out James & Jimmie's other show, Crime In Sports! On Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, Wondery, Wondery+, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to podcasts!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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most times it's nothing to worry about. However, for an unlucky few, their weird symptoms are just the start of a terrifying medical mystery. Listen to Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts. This week in Edgerton, Kansas, a wild family dynamic leads to fighting, bad feelings, and eventually as cold blooded a murder as a person could think up, perpetrated by the person you'd least expect. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petragallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us. We could not be happier to be here with you today for more... Let's do it again. ...insane stories of murder. And this one, wow, again, like we say every week, this is a crazy story.

Loyal boy. It's a crazy story. Just assume it's a crazy story, otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. There you go. It's not going to be boring. You know that. Head over to shutupandgivemurder.com for more crazy stories. And we'll see you next time.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye's a crazy story. Just assume it's a crazy story. Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing it There you go. It's not gonna be boring You know that head over to shut up and give me murder comm right now tons of merch and tickets to live shows Oh, yeah, live show may 31st, Dorham, North Carolina You are on the clock next night is in Nashville that has already sold out but Durham few tickets left there

So get them while you can and we will see you there we can't wait also Minnesota Minneapolis get your tickets to that make it our biggest show ever you sell this bad boy out you're gonna beat Chicago as our biggest show ever and just impressive so thank you so much for everybody that has bought tickets and for the ones who will buy tickets in the future as well. Thank you so much. Thank you. Shutupandgivemurder.com. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above, you're gonna get it all. The whole back catalog, hundreds of bonus episodes

that you've never heard before. They're all right there. And you're gonna get new ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder, you get it all. You get it all. That's right. And as you'll see it from this one, one crime and sports one small-town murder you get it all you get it all That's right And as you'll see it from this one the crime and sports ones are usually less sportsy and more And of general interest so this week which are gonna get for crime and sports we're gonna talk about theme park disasters again

Yes, it's back every a few four or five six months We got to do those because they're amazing and then for small-town murder We are gonna talk about the craziest execution methods in history Oh, so over the last few thousand years We've thought of some weird things to do to people and we'll talk about a lot of them So that'll be a lot of fun danced on it. Yeah, really just I mean people thought about it They lit a candle they sat there with their quill pen and they figured it out That is patreon.com

Slash crime in sports and crime in sports. If you're going, what is that? That's our other show. You should listen to that show. Even if you don't like sports, trust me, you'll like that. Listen to the most recent Joe Pepitone episode. You don't need to like sports. There's hardly any in there. It's all about his craziness. And then yeah, do that. Also listen to your stupid opinions, which is our other podcast, our other podcast. It is hilarious. The fastest hour hour in podcasting as we like to say it goes by so quickly because it's so damn funny other People's insane reviews that said quick disclaimer here. We go. We're comedians and this is a comedy show everybody There will be jokes. I can say that much about it. There will also be terrible horrible murder

That's the thing thing is thing is, we like to, we really tread the... Yeah, yeah, we walk that line very nicely. That's the thing about it. What we do is we never make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why is that, James? Because we're assholes. Oh yeah, bud. But we're not scumbags. That's how that works. See? There you go. There's plenty of stuff to make fun of we make fun of murderers We make fun of a dumb murder plot make fun of a small town police force that doesn't realize they've talked to the murderer ten times We make fun of small towns because we're all from somewhere small if you don't believe me listen to fish kill New York episode Where I completely destroy where I grew up. So I mean, there's nothing sacred here

It's all a big fun roast, and we're gonna have a good time here, except for dead people. We try to keep that pretty sacred. So if that sounds good to you, man, are you gonna hear a fun show. If you think true crime and comedy should never, ever, never go together,

maybe we're not for you, but maybe we are. Maybe give it a shot, and either way, no complaining later. That said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. What do you say? Let's go on a trip, shall we?

Yeah, we have to. We have to go somewhere. Let's go to Kansas. OK. Most people, that's not the... Fine. You say, let's go on a go somewhere. Let's go to Kansas. Okay, most people let's not go. Fine. You say let's go on a trip. They don't go to Kansas. Yeah. You know, so we are in Kansas. This is Edgerton, Kansas. Okay. It's in northeast Kansas. Yeah. And it's about 40 minutes to Kansas City. Kansas City, Kansas, that is. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because it's there's

one on each side there. About two hours and 15 minutes to Wichita and about three hours and 23 minutes to Great Bend, Kansas, our last Kansas episode, the Carnival Mafia, which was insane. Obviously, that's right. Mafia. You can just tell by the title how crazy that was. So go back and listen to that one. This is in Johnson County and a little bit of Miami County as well. Area code 913. The motto here, they just like it because it rhymes. So that motto is global roots or local roots. So global routes, local roots. See? Roots and roots, how they do that. That's why they did that. They just like roots local. What does that mean? No idea. They just like the wordplay. That's what I mean It doesn't it doesn't mean anything if they just they're like that's where's it going. It's pretty good wordplay right there, huh? Yeah, let's do that roots and roots

That's hot shit history in this town Edgerton is the the winner of the name battle between this had four names before Edgerton, before they finally come up with Edgerton. It was Lanesfield, it was McCamish, it was Hibbard, and it was also Martinsburg. And then it landed on Edgerton. They didn't know what edging was back then. No, they had no idea what edging was.

Now it's Blue Balls Town. Now it's, they're like, well, where are the Mormons then? They'll be coming in any minute. Blue Balls town. Yep. They're like, well, where are the Mormons then? They'll be coming in any minute. Blue Balls, Kansas. This was Blue Balls, Kansas. Come on in. Judge David Martin, he owned a farm in the area where Edgerton exists, and so they named it Martinsburg.

And then Edgerton, though, in 1870, the railroad was extended out to here and people rejoiced. And it was named for the chief engineer of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway, Edgerton. So they named it after him. His name was Edgerton. His name was Edger, I think. Oh, yeah, I think so. Yeah, that's how it happened. So the reviews of this town here, okay, there's only one review because it is a small town, this town. Really? This is like kind of in the middle of nowhere as we'll talk about in our story

Most of the story takes place in a pretty big suburb of Kansas City And then they use this rural area as a place for murder kind of so it's a take Oh, yeah, it's one of those type of deals. So there's not a lot going on here Here's a review one one review and it's from a site where you don't have to give any stars So this gets zero stars. Yeah, unless you like to drive ten minutes for a gallon of milk This is not the place for you. I mean ten minutes isn't that bad? It's pretty good It's not bad people who live in cities back in suburbs neighborhoods. It takes ten minutes just to get out of their neighborhood ten minutes It's like five miles or so. Yeah, not even probably the only thing here besides homes about one-third of them need to go. It's in parentheses

They're replanting here. They're just gonna read community plan this thing is a gas station a liquor store and a bar So lots of places places to buy booze Three places places to buy booze Alex place to buy beer their place to buy liquor here in a place to drink beer And liquor over here. Perfect. Oh, and the trains come through about every hour. Better places to be if you're looking in Kansas. So it's constantly loud, constant trains going on,

and it just sounds like it's a few drunk people wandering around. Yeah, yeah. They made it sound like it was like an old west town, like it was Dodge City. Well, shit, doesn't seem like it's very far beyond that. You gotta clear the streets at high noon to avoid the gunplay, because people will be dueling.

It's gonna happen. Lost a kid last spring. Oh man, took his eye right out. People in this town, 1901, so small, very small, and it is mostly it's about 53 and a half percent female median age is exactly the Country's median age about 37 and a half 53 percent married. It's very much a kind of a married family type of town out here Race to this town 95 percent white zero point zero percent black zero point zero percent Asian point seven percent Native American, 2.7% Hispanic, and then two or more.

So unemployment rate here is low. It's about 3.1%, which is just a touch lower than the rest of the country. Median household income here is a little bit higher than the rest of the country. Really? It is $74,741 a year. The average is $69,021. What the fuck are they doing? That's not bad.

They're doing well here. And cost of living, 100 is regular average. Here it is 106.2. So not too bad. And the housing's slightly lower than the average though. Yeah, because it's Kansas. You got tornadoes and shit. Oh yeah, that house is coming down.

It's got to be like a breakaway. You either build a solid like three-layer brick house or it's like a breakaway that you just pick up and rebuild over here. 1993 NBA pants. Yeah yeah you tear them off. You can put them back together pretty quick too. You can go get it from half a county over and just set it back up again pretty easy. That's how it works. Median home cost here, 270,300 bucks. So not cheap, but not that expensive.

Now maybe we've convinced you that this is the only place for you. And if we, maybe you work in Kansas City and you want to ride in, well, we have some stuff for you with the Edgerton, Kansas real estate report So the average two-bedroom rental here goes for about a thousand eighty dollars a month So that's below the national average that average though all the houses though. I there's you can't find a cheap house here That's the thing. You can't cheap house here. That's the thing. You can't find a house that's the average. Here's a four bedroom, three bath, 1,670 square foot house.

So not huge, but nice, livable and real nice. It's problem with this house is it's not finished. From the outside it looks great, but then from the inside there are rooms that are just concrete and wood. It's just like there's no finishing. There's no flooring, there's no walls, there's no drywall, there's no anything. It's just two by fours.

It's just two by fours, there's rooms that are just concrete. I don't understand. And they're selling that? They're selling it like that. So someone built it most of the way and they're like, I don't know, people might want to decide what kind of walls they want, floors, right? I don't know, we can't just tell them or well they're like this is hard I quit.

Yeah fuck that this is expensive I'm stopping now just sell it for what it is and there's even pictures a couple that are photoshopped of what it could look like. Oh I hate that so much. Like yeah there's the room and then there's the room like if it was finished it looked like this well it's not finished so that's crazy 399,950 dollars so 400 grand for an unfinished house on less than half an acre of property that you can't just you got a lot of work to do seems pricey i think yeah next up five bedrooms 5 bedroom, 6 bath, T-ball for each and every B-Hall, 6096 square feet. Oh my!

21.61 acres. Holy! It is ridiculous. The house is too big. It's not built like a normal... 6000 square feet is so much house. It's so long. It's just so long.

It looks like it's... It's one story? No, no, no. It's so long. It's just so long. It's one story No, no, it's two stories, but it looks like it's some kind of like like a like a like an inn or something It doesn't look like a residential house It looks like there's many people from all around Sleeping here and even if it's four thousand on the bottom and two thousand up that's a fuckload of house It's so much. There's so many windows and there's just so much going on. It's a lot. Just there's like six garages. It's a lot of shit going on. One million eight hundred fifteen thousand bucks for that though. Yeah. That's a great deal. Yeah. And Phoenix, that's like fifteen

million for that. Oh, on the low end. And that's for an acre. If that house is on an acre. Never mind. Twenty one acres. That's crazy. That would get you 21 acres of sunny slow. Yeah. Ooh, man. You'd buy all the meth heads. Perfect. Yeah. I own several dozen meth addicts and a lot of bicycles. So you are scrap metal, tons of copper, a lot of copper wiring and bicycles. Children's bikes. So here's a two-bedroom, one-bath, 1246 square foot house on 160 acres. Okay. You're paying for the land because the house is a tiny little shithole dump of a house so much so that they don't even show like, they don't show any pictures of the inside. Of the outside, it's only like from a a distance like gives you the idea of a house being over there and there's just pictures of the land so that's all there

is to it. It's rough. Four million three hundred thousand dollars. That must be some fertile farmland or some shit. Hundred acres? Yeah that's 160 acres. Oh God over 150. That is a whole lot of Kansas right there. Things to do. You can see every corner of it. You can see all of Kansas. Yeah, Dorothy's over there. I can see what else is in Kansas. I don't know. Nothing.

So things to do here. Frontier days. Here we go. Yeah, that's common out there. That's all the towns on the frontier day. The 53rd annual frontier day here. Live music, food, beer, garden, and activities for the kids. They are going to the.

The music is going to be great. The music is going to be great. The music is going to be great. The music is going to be great. The music is going to be great. The music is going to be great. The music is going to be great. The music is going to be great. The music is going to be great. The music is a Frontier Day. The 53rd annual Frontier Day here. Live music, food, beer, garden, and activities for the kids.

The music this day, here we go. Peace, love, and music. A tribute to the bands of Woodstock. Nope. Well, the problem is the bands of Woodstock that were really good, you probably don't have the musical ability to play. No. Jimi Hendrix and Santana and like, you're going to crank that out? Probably, you probably don't have the musical ability to play. No.

Jimi Hendrix and Santana and like, you're going to crank that out? Probably not, I don't think, right? So I don't know what bands they're saying of Woodstock or imitating of Woodstock. It's probably all that shit, but they're probably just playing a CD. Just like one of each band? Yeah. That'd be fun. So there's that.

That's a tribute thing there. And otherwise there's like bounce houses and shit like that. Not a lot going on. Then there's festival on the trails. You can go on the trails and enjoy live music on Friday and Saturday night as well as a kids zone car show. They need to come up with different things for these. Every festival has the same shit. Why call it frontier days if you've just got local bands and bounce houses, that's not that's what I mean How is that frontier? It doesn't say anything about like, you know candle making or some sort of like, you know shoeing or yeah fucking

Dug out digging and fuck. Yeah teepee making like none of that is on the on there So yeah, and the other one to festival on the trails Trails is just, you're on it in the trails and then there's bands playing, I don't know what's going on there. And then finally the Mildale Farm Fall Festival. What do they do? Well you bring the family and spend the day exploring the Mildale Farm property. Oh boy. And enjoy a number of fall activities during this free public event.

It's free and he's just inviting people to his farm. His insurance has to be outrageous. Does he just have random people there? Listen why though, it's a 22 acre deal that you can go on and they call it the region's premier venue for weddings, family reunions and corporate retreats and special occasions. So this is their way of advertising. Yeah, you can be like, oh, this is beautiful. And then you go, well, we should get married in April.

This is perfect. Let's just do it here. That's what they're doing right there. Oh, let's bring the corporate gang out here. We can have corporate cow milk and everybody will be happy. Well, sit your bridesmaids on a bed with hay. There's a pumpkin patch, a craft in the barn, cider and coffee,

roasting marshmallows, storytelling. This sounds like a free event. None of these things cost money. At most there's a tent involved here. There's not any kind of like structures or nobody's putting speakers up or anything. This might take two bags of marshmallows to get the whole thing done. There's see a fire truck also. Not touch, see. See. Kids look but no touch. It's different.

They usually have touch a truck. Fuck that touch a truck. No, this is just look with you touch with your eyes kids. A petting zoo, small fee for feeding the animals, cash only. You gotta pay for the food. Not like they wouldn't have fed them anyway. And then a pancake breakfast with pancakes and sausage for just $5 a plate. That seems fine. And catch and release fishing with waiving the permits that day. You can just do it. Go fish. And there's also going

to be tractor drawn hay rides, disco golf and a DJ. What the fuck is disco golf? Or disc golf, not disco golf. Oh I know what that is. Frasbee golf. Yeah and you put it over the... Okay, Frolf. Perfect. Alright, there you go. So crime rate in this town, what we are here for. Property crime is about half the national average here. So pretty safe to leave your shit unlocked and fine. Violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and of course assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime, less than half of the average, under half the average. So yeah, it's like a third of the average. Very safe. Very nice place.

Yeah. And it's only 40 minutes from Kansas City. So it's not that bad. No, if you work in Kansas City, this seems like a decent place to go. If you can find a house, I don't know. There's not a lot available So that said let's talk about some real fucking weird murder Okay And like I said a lot of this is gonna take place in Overland Park Which is a much bigger suburb of Kansas City that is only about 15 minutes from here. That's the thing We're talking maybe 12 to 15 miles from the one site to another site that we're gonna talk about so it's very close to Overland Park and that sort of thing so was BTK

in Overland Park he was Wichita I thought Wichita yeah didn't do something in an Overland Park that sounds familiar with him it does doesn't it yeah it does sound familiar there I'm not sure I know why he was the Wichita area I know and then uh but yeah that does sound familiar Maybe he had to go there for business. Was that one of the hotels he used to stay at all the time Maybe maybe Disneyland parties. Oh Man we did a patreon about about BTK's some of his weirder stuff and Wow, is he a fucking weirdo man it is uh his Disneyland parties are

creepy and look that up if you have a strong stomach for uh yes for like middle-aged male self fucking self gratification it is you need a strong stomach for it so let's let's talk about some people here let's talk about some people here. Let's talk about Edward. Everybody calls him Ed. Big Ed. Big Ed Hobson here. H-O-B-S-O-N. Ed Hobson. He's born in 1942, Ed is. And Ed's a big, like a strong, sturdy blonde guy. He's Dutch. So he's a former all-state football star he was an all-state player in high school he's a big tough guy and he ends up being he's in the army for a while in the early late 50s early 60s oh between Korea and Vietnam he was in the sweet spot there. Decent time. Decent time. So he's there.

I guess his aunt would take him on trips around like to other countries. So he's been to a bunch of different places all around the world. And he's also been in the army around the world. So he's really a well traveled guy. And as we're going to catch up with him for years and years, he's a mill worker at the Ralston Purina factory So he makes dog food joint magic coming home smelling like dog food every day There's one in Flagstaff. Oh, yes, I think so. Yeah, so the smell of dog food. I don't know what it is

It's just I can't I don't want to smell it the grease that's on it It's so bad for them and they fucking love love it That's the love you put in there like I'm Munching it up and you're crazy. God. You guys are gross. Yeah, they know what good food is. We've given them stuff You know, I mean pieces of cheese burger for yeah, you've had you've had steak It is you've had medium rare steak and you loved it. Yes, but your shit food with the same gusto and it's a little insulting I'm gonna be honest. I'm a little insulted that you eat those with the same amount of gusto. How do you bury your face in that bowl at the same rate as you eat fucking filet at medium rare? That's delicious shit. You're a jerk. I swear to god. The only reason I gave it to you is because it has that fucking ribbon of that thick chewy shit in it.

I'm not gonna chew that. I'm full and there's like two bites left I'm not gonna save two bites and I don't want to throw it out and the dog looks like they'd really enjoy it. So there you go Yeah, that just warms them up that's an appetizer to go eat his shit nasty nasty cat foods even worse So my that's why cat shit is the worst I think so Don't tell the dog cuz they Vaughn will eat cat shit with the same gusto that he eats my fucking steak. Fuck yeah. Oscar with the

turkey shit. Oscar, if he sees a turkey turn it is like, it's a delicacy. I mean, it would be like if you were walking down the street and an ice cream sundae was on the sidewalk. It's the same reaction, like a fresh one too. Just cherry on top, everything. There will be chocolate on my cheeks. And a spoon next to it. Just oh wow this is made for me

That's what he looks like someone loves me So when he's 22 and yeah, so 1964 he is going to get married here Which again that's very common in 1964 to get married at 22. He marries a woman named Shirley teed teed Shirley Juanita teed Here Juanita teed Wilson also because she was surely she's been married before that's why she's got multiple names She is divorced. She's 33 when they get married Really? That's highly unusual back then. Back then, like if she has two daughters as well, a 14 year old and a 12 year old. In 1964, a single mom who's

33 with a 14 year old and a 12 year old, it was the most damaged of goods back then. Like no, no guys, it would take a lot. You got to find the right guy to quote, take that on. You know what I mean? That is fascinating. To me, that's goods that are doing okay. You know what I mean? But all the guys wanted a 19-year-old virgin back then to marry. That's what they want. It's the homecoming queen. You're getting the 19-year-old virgin, the homecoming queen that a man cast off, and that means he probably didn't fuck her very much, which means she is jacked about starting a new relationship. At least twice that we know of.

Yeah. They fuck. She has two daughters. Probably didn't have a good relationship. LaLona is the one daughter. She's 14 when they get married in 1964, and so she's only eight years younger than him. Yeah.

Interesting. And Tani, T-A-N-I, or Tani, she's 12 eight years younger than him. Yeah, interesting. And Tani, T-A-N-I, or Tani, she's 12 at the time. So yeah, he's all about it, loves it, doesn't, loves, yeah, he takes the kids as his own, and that's a lot of times back then too, but part of the reason people didn't wanna get a ready-made family is because a lot of times when people broke up back then that was it they didn't go see their kids they just separated and started new families. So this is like if you were going to take the sun you weren't just like oh the stepdad and the kids will be gone on the weekend this is their dad now period you're 22 and now you have a 14 year old.

You're 22 and you have a ninth grader how How do you feel about that? That is wild. That's wild. That's a weird thing. But he's a really short guy. It's impossible for him to be her dad though. You know what I mean? It's very hard. He's got to be of anything just like an older brother that gives good advice and shit like that. Because I mean biologically, there's no eight year old that can drop a load, right? I would hope there's not a lot of squirting eight year olds out there because the world would be a real fucked up place I would say right Yeah That'd be bad as eight year olds going. I'm gonna take a shower for about 45 minutes. What are you talking about?

I don't do my laundry. Yeah, no watch bluey get out of here. What are you doing? So? 19 that's when they're getting married so 1967 February 4th of That's when they're getting married. So 1967, February 4th of 1967, they have a kid together, Shirley and Ed have a kid together. Ed and Shirley, by the way, is a very 60s couple's name. You know what I mean? This is Ed, this is his wife Shirley, this is people from work that you meet at a barbecue. My uncle were Rick and Shirley. Same thing. There you go. Same shit. Yeah, that's Richard, right? Richard and Shirley. No, his name was Ricky.

Oh my God. So he's a retired NASCAR driver or something, right? I figure that's the only profession you could be when your birth certificate name is Ricky. You're just asking for DUIs, aren't you, at that point? He had so many. I knew it. I knew it. And it's mainly because if I'm a cop and I pull a guy over

and he shows me his license and on his license it says, Ricky, I'm going to step out of the car, please. That's good for a.08 right there. Just your birth name being Ricky. .08, boom. If we were going to leave his house, we'd have to plan to leave about 45 minutes before the time we wanted to leave because he was so drunk that he would

just start telling the same stories we'd heard. We're like, we know that time that Dale Earnhardt came back from behind and won. We know. Thanks, Ricky. I'm going to tell you about it again, man. Fucking Ricky. Ricky, that's not even real. That Days of Thunder what are you talking about? No stripper pulled anybody over stop it. No that did not happen it was Tom Cruise in Days of Thunder you're way off sir. No let me tell you about the time I wheelchair raced down a hospital hallway. Same movie. There we go Ricky you know what Ricky I'm done with you okay.

You're too drunk. Put your hands behind your back. You're under arrest. That's him to the cop, not even to you. He's telling the cop those stories. Ricky, we said you failed. We said you failed the field sobriety. We didn't say we wanted to hear your story.

So they have a son together and his name is Kristen. C-R-I-S-T-E-N. They call him Chris. So Kristen, Kristen Hobbs in here, young Chris, and they have a nice house, they have a nice family, he's got two ready-made older sisters who are a lot older at this point. Oh fuck, they can certainly babysit like they're like 17 and 15 now

So I mean, yeah, so but I mean he's not really gonna if the age difference is that much They don't really grow up as siblings at that point. No, they're almost breastfeed that kid. Yeah They're more like an aunt. That's you know, who's who's own kid died and then we want to make her feel okay Let her watch the kids, you know Fascinating. I can't imagine being 17 with a toddler Yeah, sibling. That's insane. That is different You know what I mean? And how about being being Shirley who has a 17 year old and a fucking toddler brand? Wow, a newborn and a 17 year old. That's that is a man. That's a lot to process in your brain of you know Yeah, but it's anything if you've got a man. That's a lot to process in your brain of you know, yeah But it's everything if you've got a toddler and yeah, one's filling out college application

The other's filling their pants. So you're like, this is a way different problems I yeah that I have to fucking negotiate with the two of you. That's certain life Skills though that you're learning of how to sleep through a baby's cry. That's gonna be good for you later It's gonna come in handy. So it's a nice household. They raise Chris very lovingly and it's to have an older mother at that point. She really knows what she's doing. You know, in her late thirties at that point, that was considered like a geriatric birth

in the sixties. Like, holy shit, what the fuck lady. Welcome to the small town of Chinook where faith runs deep and secrets run deeper. In this new thriller, available exclusively on Wondery+, religion and crime collide when a gruesome murder rocks the isolated Montana community. Everyone is quick to point their fingers at a drug-addicted teenager,

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Yeah. Tani especially has some issues. The youngest? Yeah, the youngest. At this point when he's born being 15. When she's in junior high school, so it's a couple years before Chris is born, Tani is raped. Oh, no. Yeah, that's horrifying, obviously. Do we know by who?

Well, that's the thing. Relatives say that she accused a 14-year-old cousin of doing this, which is even more horrible, not only because she should be able to trust her 14-year-old cousin, cousin but then also at 14 that probably means somebody did that to that cousin. So the whole thing is a bad cycle of awfulness. That 14 year old shouldn't be aware of how to force things on people. That's crazy. Unless it's been done. So yeah when kids that young do shit it's for, it's they were taught. You know what I mean? It's learned behavior. So but after investigating the police declined to press charges Oh even worse. So now she's got to see this kid. She's got to see him. Hopefully not at too many. Thanksgivings

Let's key. Let's leave let's leave cousin touchy at home, please We leave him at home because you know, this is the family doesn't really want to see him. Yeah, so Anyway, that's right away as that's a hard thing to come up with. That's horrible. Very horrible. And then years later, she goes to the University of Missouri and she does well in school and everything like that. And she finds a man, a boy, whatever you want to call him,

and dates and falls in love with him here. That's great. A love of her life named Gary Hollinsworth. He's an engineering student who's also in the Navy. Okay. So a very upstanding young man who's an engineering student. Busy motherfucker. Yeah. He's a very smart guy too if he's an engineering student. So he she finds somebody very smart and nice in college. Just what the parents wanted her to do was you know do all of that. Then there's some issues here. February 19th, 1973, Tani accidentally kills her boyfriend. What? Yes, this is not the murder, by the way. How did she do that? Let's see here.

According to the police reports, it was the evening of February 19th, 1973, Tani goes to pick up Gary at a local bar after friends had called at her apartment and said that he was too drunk to drive. Oh no. He was too drunk in 1973, which means he can't walk to the car. They let him walk and he couldn't put the key in the lock to get it in. He went to the wrong car. You go to the wrong car and then you get three tries to put the key in the lock and if you can't do it

Yeah, they go okay, you're too drunk to drive that's the test back then so they had to call her So friends took her to the bar Because Gary had his pickup truck at the bar So she said will you give me a ride and I'll drive his truck home with this fucking drunken idiot in it So no one's happy about that No one's happy to be called late at night to pick up your drunk boyfriend at the bar But you know, I guess it's college its college kids do dumb shit like that But what ends up happening is an argument ensues

Which is doesn't really even need to be said. Yeah, I mean talked about it. Yeah, she's wearing pajama bottoms and slippers I mean talked about it. Yeah, she's wearing pajama bottoms and slippers In the bar parking lot waiting for him to come outside and then getting in the car She's not thrilled with this arrangement smells like wild turkey. Yeah, this is not cool at all. He's hey, baby. How's it going? Your sits look great today. Like no, I don't want to hear that shit. Shut up Get in the car. So an argument ensues as they're driving and Gary says pull over now I'm getting out of this truck and I'm walking which oh Gary should have done that to begin with then you asshole why the fuck am I here if you're gonna walk stopping you made me get up I'm gonna drive oh we're driving yeah it's it's it's happening I'm five to handcuff you to the seatbelt

thing work we're driving so he walks a short distance and apparently decides that maybe walking isn't such a great idea. I'm a little hammered and this is much harder than I thought. It's far and stuff like that. So, you know, he tries to at that point, he cuts across the interstate to try to intercept Tammy on the way home because she did a U-turn or whatever. So he's going over trying to flag her down on the other side of the interstate, okay? So I guess when he tried to flag her down, she-

Tani? He tries to flag Tani down. She hit him with the truck and killed him. Now it's dark and So there's a lot of questions of what the fuck went down exactly. Yeah, I mean cuz it's really difficult She told a friend the next day that she didn't see him until it was too late She saw him at the last second and She told the friend quote. This is horrible. It was like the Twilight Zone. All of a sudden, his face was right in my windshield.

She didn't see him. Dark, dark, dark. And then, boom, you hear that the sound of hitting someone has to be ungodly horrible, number one. And then your boyfriend's face is on the fucking windshield. That's horrifying. He was looking at me with the strangest look, like, why are you doing this to me?

Holy shit shit man. Everybody wonders whether Gary, whether this was an accident or Gary threw himself in front of the truck. Cause he was so drunk in the argument maybe he might have thrown himself in front of the truck like ah this is what you did to me type of thing. But that nobody knows if that's what happened

or why he didn't seem suicidal and none of his friends thought he was suicidal and maybe it wasn't a suicidal thing maybe it was just a this'll make her stop this'll make her yeah yeah yeah and then it's dark and she doesn't see you that's possible too because it's a dark Kansas interstate you know what I mean the problem is though she can't get over this, Tawny. No! And does not give herself much of a chance to because two days later, she goes, she gets her boyfriend's shotgun and shoots herself. Tawny committed suicide over this? She shot herself with a shotgun over this.

Wow! Two days later. So, before the funeral or anything, just couldn't handle it. So now there's two dead people. Now there's two dead people. Yeah, I mean, Antony, I mean, guilt feelings have probably been with her for a long time. And even being assaulted will make you have guilt feelings.

And then Yeah, she probably can't go home and expect comfort there, because the last time she had trauma with her family, that probably didn't go well either Yeah, I think well the family supported her the police just didn't want to investigate the family the whole family though I don't know about the whole family Her household is a safe place for her but in college I don't know if she didn't feel like she could go to her parents or I don't know what her deal was but

Her father her body was found by her mother, too. Jesus. She surely found her. Oh, by the way, six-year-old Chris is the one who actually finds the body. No. Yep. They were calling her and couldn't get her to answer, so they drove from Kansas City to Columbia, and when they went into her place, Chris was sick, so he ran up ahead and ran in and found his sister. A shotgun suicide is ugly too.

I can't imagine. There's, you know, a six-year-old shouldn't see brains on a wall. No. That's especially his sister's brains on a wall, you know. Following that Murdoch trial when they were describing the boy's body. Oh, Jesus. He came up and did it. It plunked the brain out whole and it's just laying there in the... That's crazy. Horrifying. Crazy. Came up with a brain out. Yeah hole and it's just laying there in the that's fucking horrifying

Every shot him the free that's right. He shot that fucking kid didn't kill him and then went closer and Didn't did it head in the head. So I'm gonna finish like a fucking mob hit that's how mob Yeah, do it, you know and just opened it took his whole brain out That's how Chris and Snoop taught little Michael to fucking kill people on the wire You know what I mean? Hit him in the body and thenop taught little Michael to fucking kill people on the wire. You know what I mean? Hit him in the body and then come up and finish the job. Like what the shit are you doing?

Are you a Baltimore drug hit man? What are you doing? So this obviously, this is a huge tragedy and Ed has a hard time with this even though it's not his real daughter quote unquote. He's known her for the last 12, since she was a child and now she's in college and he's raised her. And you know, he was, she was 20 years old at the time. And he says it was not a suicide. He will not.

Really? One of those. And some people have a problem with that. And sometimes it's legitimate and sometimes they just can't imagine that their kid wouldn't have come to them. Right. You know, and it's understandable or that they wouldn't know that this was bubbling up or something. So he said it's not a suicide and will not be convinced that it is.

He said, quote, suicides don't cost as much as homicides, meaning for the county. When they investigate a suicide, they go, oh, it's a suicide sweep. Done. Bury the kid. No court case or any of that shit. No, that's it. No big investigation No detectives. No any of that. He said I raised her since she was 12. I know it wasn't suicide They said it was a 20 gauge shotgun and her arms were hardly 20 inches long She was legally blind without her glasses and her glasses were found in the next room. You can't tell me she did it hmm now That's yeah, that's tough because you don't really need your glasses to point a shotgun in your mouth and zero

Yeah, you need and a lot of people too. It's very very common I don't know why I know this but it's very common for people who wear glasses when they kill themselves They take their glasses off. That makes sense. They throw them they break them. Wow, they break them a lot of times That's a very common thing to find broken glasses of the suicide They're like don't need these anymore. Fuck this and they're yeah hate these fucking things on my face all the time Annoying me and making my ears pinch. Yeah, it's interesting I never even thought about that It happens all the fucking time if you've ever seen madmen when kills himself in the Jaguar or tries to kill himself in the Jaguar, he breaks his glasses

first. Yeah. And then the car won't start because it's a 60s Jaguar. It won't fucking start. He's like, God damn it. I can't even kill myself. He's holding broken glasses up to his eye as he's as he's under the hood trying to fix whatever's wrong so he can commit suicide It's pathetic. So it's sad. So yeah, he says that I Can't tell me that she did it and that's just the way it is Is if it couldn't get worse for poor Tani, okay? Obviously the junior high incident and then killing her boyfriend by I know she didn't want to kill her boyfriend and then killing herself She can't even rest in peace at all, and neither can this poor family.

The night before her funeral, someone broke into the funeral home and defiled her body. What? Why would you do that? Are you fucking kidding me? I mean, who? What did they do? Why would you, I would say it's probably kids, but why would kids, kids would be scared of corpses. You know what I mean? Yeah't I would say it's a probably kids but why would kids kids would be scared of corpses?

You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm like let's I would never I he it's it's horrible man He he said quote. She was a mess meaning Tawny Her blouse was pulled out her rosary was clear out of her hand her rose was gone We had in her hand her hair was all messed up She was lying over the back of the casket, her skirt was all loose and wrinkled. Also said that her belt was broken and her skirt was a mess and her blouse had been split in the back, her head was lying back over the pillow, she was in a sitting position,

her legs were spread apart, her mouth was open and her eyes were open. What the f- Her hair was quote, unbelievable. They had to call in an embalmer to redo the whole thing. What the hell would they would they like make her as like a fuck doll basically. Why would somebody do that? I don't know. I don't know what kind of a monster fucking lunatic would break into a fucking funeral home and so who would break into a funeral home? That's the craziest shit ever.

Did they assault the body or is it just that shit? We don't know. Even that shit's sick. This is sick. Yeah, they posed her like this, which is they posed her like a serial killer pose as a victim that they've, you know. And this is a body with a gunshot wound to the head. This is crazy. This is a wild thing to do. And so, I mean, if you're a grieving parent and the next day is your kid's funeral,

in the morning they tell you, hold on a minute, we have to send another embalmer over because listen to what they did to her. I mean, dude, how much more pain can you endure? Jesus Christ. At that point, if you're the people there, wouldn't you just be like, boy, did we fuck up with security, we gotta fix we fuck up with security?

We gotta fix this and not tell anybody? I can't believe they told anybody. I guess you noticed. The embarrassment alone. Either that or you'd go, you know what, guys? This one's on us. You know what I mean? You guys didn't mean like this?

We're gonna call this a freebie. We're gonna call this a freebie. We really should have kept better watch over the corpses, probably. That's horrible security. Wow, at least get 20% off something. I don't know. Is there a break on the coffin price?

That is horrible, man. Jesus. I don't know if they did anything else to her. This happened in the 70s. I don't know if they would have said, oh, these people fucking broke in and defiled the corpse sexually. I don't know if they put that in the paper really or if they kind of of keep that under wraps the family said, please don't put that in the public But if they definitely posed her in a sexual way, that's fucked up

Which is absolutely the creepiest weirdest fucking strangest thing I've ever heard anybody do in my life I'm we don't we try not to judge too much on your weirdness. We're judging that hard. That's that is Not weird not small-town murder approved behavior right there everybody not crave that judge too much on your weirdness, we're judging that hard. That is beyond weird. Not small town murder approved behavior right there everybody. You crave that? Please see a doctor. Yup. For Christ's sake. Yeah, good Jesus sake. Please, before you do it again. So Ed maintains always that she

was fucking murdered and that the Boone County investigators had bungled the job. And someone doing this to the body extra convinced him it was murder. Yeah. Because he's like, yeah, they killed her and then did this to her too. So it just adds to his suspicion. So 1976 comes around here, Jesus Christ. And this is horrible, man. He's about nine years old little Chris okay and he's

had it rough already too because he's already found his dead sister in a horrible way. His mother is diagnosed with cancer surely now and she ends up basically being in a hospital for two years between 75 and 76. She's just in the hospital the whole time. You know what cancer? Liver cancer. Oh shit. Liver cancer in the mid 70s. So it's not even there's no, there's nothing that can do over 40 years ago. Yeah. There's nothing that can be done for that shit. So it's really brutal. She basically just, just withers in pain for two years in the hospital. So she is gonna end up dying at the end of 1976 in the hospital.

So now this poor kid has really, he's been through it. You know what I mean? And so has Ed, Ed's been through it too. I mean, he's having a hard time. Everybody's having a hard time here. You know, he keeps in touch with the other stepdaughter as much as he can. She's older, so I mean, you know, whatever.

And he tries to get close to Chris and embrace Chris and hold him close. Every summer, they'd go hunting and fishing. They'd go to a family farm in King City, Missouri. And yeah, he said they would, Chris loved using the 12 gauge shotgun. Yeah, love that. He said he kid was a hell of a shot with that thing

when he was out there, 11, 12 years old. It's a hell of a shot with that thing when he was out there 11 12 years old It's a lot of gun for an 11 year old. He's sure apparently he's doing it though Yeah, he said the one that was like his gun was a Belgian made single shot 3995 special a cheap gun He said just a cheap 12 gauge but you know one shot at a time type of deal But um, you know, he's getting learning how to use a shotgun Sure. So a little bit about Ed here Ed's a strange guy

It depends on who you talk to what they say about Ed Ed has a temper he flies off the handle He's also a soft-spoken guy that you feel bad for He's a real bad people keep using the word paradox with him, he's a real paradox. Yeah, strange guy. His minister praised him as caring and religious, and other people said he was violent and vengeful. So, those are interesting things. John Adams, who's an associate pastor at the Lee Wood Baptist Church, said he considers Ed a friend and trusted ally. He said, I find Ed a very warm and caring person, a man who's deeply religious. There might have been times when he did have some problems, but considering what he's been

through, I think he's a very nice man. Yeah, Monday through Saturday, he's a motherfucker. On Sunday, nobody's nicer. On Sunday, there's a 20 in that basket is what I'm getting at. You betcha. That's the important part here. So people said though he was a of just like I said a paradox at one point he said no one steps on my toes that I don't step on back. That's what that quote he put in the newspaper that when he was talked to about. You can print it. You can print that shit.

Yep. Wow. People said he'd have a real quiet demeanor, like a quiet blonde Midwestern man and then violent outbursts would happen. And they said that was typical of Ed. I don't know if he didn't wear a good enough helmet in high school when he played football or what the fuck happened, but he's got some like, it looks like he's got CTE or something. He's got life trauma on top of it.

Oh yeah, yeah. All sorts of trauma on top of it. I think that's probably what it is too. That, he was also in the military. We don't know what he did or saw over there too. So we have no idea what his mental status is. One person said he is an irrational man, a contradiction. But the best way to describe him is that he's a survivor. And he's gotta be, he's got a lot to survive.

Now, relatives of Shirley, his wife here, said that the marriage at times was happy and at times was violent as well. They did not have a perfect idyllic little life here that people kind of thought from the outside. Ed, this is funny, a great line here. Ed admits that there was a lot of screaming and said, and said yes

Shirley did pull guns on people But he denies ever pulling guns on anyone personally Because yeah, we'd yell and scream and we'd fight and yeah If you came to the door Shirley might come to the door of the shotgun You never know she pulled guns on people which means multiple different guns and multiple different people. What was up with Shirley plural a bow Jesus Christ what I wish you like I just picture coming out on the porch going con sarnit get off my property like what the fuck man That is insane why she pulls on people Wow like an old this is I mean It's like old west times like any crazy any Oakley style one relative said quote. It was weird

Yeah, this is weird. That sounds weird. Yeah, the whole thing is weird so far The whole story is weird said it was weird It was nothing at all for the phone to ring at our house at 4 a.m And my parents would have to go over to their house and break up a fight between them She would call for help or he would call for help. The kids would call for help. Oh my god. The daughters would go, could you come over here before, you know, dad hits mom and mom shoots dad please? Oh my. Yeah, because they're having blow ups. Knock down, drag out fights. Yeah, fights that need to be intervened upon. I mean that's a fight, you know what I mean? Fights

that aren't going to break up on their own volition is tough The relative went on to say you could go over there any night of the week and find them up. We were young We thought it was fun. What? Huh? What's fun about that? We gotta go break up and add an uncle sure our uncle Ed and Aunt Shirley again Oh, that's hilarious. Let's go. Come on That's why how funny was it? She's got a gun in her hand and he took a swing at her. This is great. Like, what the fuck are we talking about here? He said, now that I think back on it, it was pretty strange.

Yeah. There you go. In retrospect, I would say so. So that's who we're talking about. So now Ed is a real paradox and a real contradiction of character. And it's just him and Chris. And that's it. Him and a 10-year- and it's just him and Chris and that's it.

Him and a 10 year old. This is like a movie is what it sounds like. Ed coming with his 10 year old. And he's trying to give the child the best things he can get him to try to forget the tragedy that's fallen this family. You found your sister, your mom's fucking dead. This isn't good for a small child You know, it's tough. So he ends up, you know kicking around for several months and not really not meeting anybody Just kind of hanging out with the kid and trying to work and do his thing and then he's gonna meet somebody here a little while later He meets a woman named Sue Ann

su e a A little while later, he meets a woman named Sue Ann, S-U-E-A-N-N-E, Sue Ann, but one word. Yeah. Yeah, but it should be, it's weird. That's a lot of vowels straight together like that. One, two, three. UEA? Yeah, there's UEA right in a row there. Wow.

Sue Ann, Sue Ann Sally is her name, S-A-L-L-E-E. So there's a fuckload of vowels in her shit. It's all S's and vowels, man. It's a lot. So if you take the L and the N out, there's nothing else. Really, the only other ones are, there's only three consonants in her whole name. S, L, and N, that's it.

Wow. R-S-T-L-N-E on Wheel of Fortune would knock her name right out of the park. You'd be done. You'd be fucking Val, you're done. Is it Sue Ann Sally? I think it's Sue Ann Sally, possibly. Wheel of Fortune would knock her name right out of the park. Oh, you'd be done. You'd be fucking done. You're done. Is it Sue Ann Sally? I think it's Sue Ann Sally, possibly.

She's born in 1943, so she's a year younger than Ed, and she's described as a slim, red-haired secretary. Okay. Everybody says she's pretty, has red hair, and is thin. Sounds great. He meets her at a skating rink where she worked part time. Oh, she's working there. Yeah, what the fuck is Ed at 37 years old,

36 years old, going to a skating rink for? Yeah, maybe that's what it is, I don't know. This is him and the kid, James. And he's hitting on women, that's hilarious. Brings us, that's better than a puppy probably. Once you go skate, I'm gonna try to find you a mom. Yeah, keepings us, that's better than a puppy probably. How about you go skate? I'm gonna try to find you a mom. Yeah, keep, no, no, no.

I got you an extra half hour, Rick, just keep going. Circle, circle, circle. I'm gonna go to the snack bar and I am gonna get a pretzel and a mom for you. Those are the two things I'm gonna grab. You want a soda too? Pretzel and new mommy, here we go. Some nachos, a mom, and a soda.

Okay, gotcha. dollars an hour keep our spinning So yeah, they they get together she is a divorced single mother as well That's great. She brings with her to this relationship a daughter named Suzanne not Sue Ann Suzanne which is su-U-Z-A-N-N-E. So Sue Ann and Suzanne. When you want one of them, it's a motherfucker to get them. Suzanne, and you can't just say Sue,

because that's fucked. It's Sue Ann and Suzanne, that's tough. Gotta call her Susie, I guess, yeah? They call her Suzanne. They always call her, they call her Sue Ann, and they call her Suzanne. It's tough. So Suzanne is two years older than Chris.

So in the same ballpark, so it's ready-made sister. So that's decent anyway, that's nice. So they met accidentally just while they were at the skating rink, but Sue Ann said it was not an accident. It was anything but an accident. She had been anticipating this meeting for two years. She fucking manifest it. What happened?

Quote, Mary Jacobs, a North Kansas City psychic, told me that I would meet a blonde man at work. God damn it. She told me two years before that he would be supporting a child and that he was alone. Well, I would hope he'd be alone if you're going to meet him and hook up with him. Yeah, it's going to be married for 12 years, he's gonna be very happy, but you're gonna say, fuck all that.

Suck his dick in the bathroom and he's yours. That's what the psychic told me. So, they're gonna meet. She seemed like the perfect wife candidate for him, he thought. Same age, she had energy. Sure, I mean, it makes sense. Said she was real attractive, very well organized, a really good mother.

Her daughter seemed like, you know, like pretty and well kept and shit. Like you know, wasn't- Like mom does a good job. Not dirty or anything. Yeah. Malnourished and dirty or anything like that. Seemed to be good. And she had willingly accepted Ed.

Ed told her about, you know, his past of tragedy and horror and everything else, and she was like, oh my god, that's terrible, and, you know, was supportive of him. So, she, though, she had been divorced for years now, about eight years at this point. She had left her husband, James Crum, C-R-M, C-R-U-M-M, James Crum, and their son, James Crum Jr. and just took Suzanne along but left Jimmy

Crum behind. Left her son? They call him Jimmy. Jimmy Crum Jr. gets left behind. Why'd she do that? She said, you keep him and I'll take this one. Alright. So poor Jimmy Crum Jr. stays with dad, doesn't talk

to mom for about 10 years. She doesn't even talk to him, doesn't call him, just leaves him nothing. Not even a card, nothing. You don't have a mom for that fucking 10 years now and he was a little kid at the time. That'll ruin you. You think? Mom left and took my sister and said I don't want you and then ever called back He was like, that'll ruin you. Yeah. You think mom left a kid up, took my sister and said, I don't want you. And then ever called back again. Yeah, that'll fuck a kid up. I would say real bad. We're seeing lots of trauma happening. This is like psychiatrists everywhere are like, oh my God, the bills I would be charging for these kids. We are destroying children every 10 minutes. There's another one. There's another hard,rid tragedy it's not gonna end there don't worry. So they, Ed and Sue Ann, I was gonna call her Suzanne and I couldn't get it out of my mouth that it wasn't Suzanne. Ed and Sue Ann have a nice romantic connection between them it's pretty instant and they begin seeing each other. Here we go. Ed decides to

propose to her Really like well, I mean shit. What are we waiting for here? We both have all these kids Let's just get them in the same house and pull bills. Yeah, fuck this life And you're like like 36 and 37 at the time like what the fuck are we doing? So before they decided they decided to get married though They agreed to see a marriage counselor to work out problems that they anticipated might surface. Haven't surfaced.

Haven't surfaced. No problems. Coping and skills to be able to handle the fact that, because they have both kids coming from broken homes and one has seen some tragedy, his mom died, then he's going to get a new mom, that's probably going to be a mom. That's probably gonna be a problem will Suzanne hasn't had a dad in ten years Will she take to add as a new father figure and it's that suing gonna look at my boy and see her boy and treat him Like dog shit. Yeah boys. She just hates just hates little boys. That's the problem all that shit

So the they thought the counselor be able to aid them with routine problems, but you the problem. All that shit. So they thought the counselor would be able to aid them with routine problems, but you know, all that kind of shit. So Suanne takes an interest in the children though, and Chris especially, or little Chris, she one time goes to talk to one of Chris's teachers before Ed and Suanne are even married here. So that's involved. That's a mom. Yeah. I mean, his mom's dead. This is like overboard at this point.

She's got Roy. This is from the teacher, Mrs. Schenk. She said, she told us there had been some difficulties that Chris was a problem and that he was hard to get along with and that he caused difficulty between all the members of the family. And Sue Ann also told the teacher that she wanted to delay her marriage to add until Chris could receive help. But that Ed really wanted to get the marriage going and over with. So he's divulged this shit to the teacher. She told the teacher Sue and tells

the teacher all this. So yeah, well, what kind that's weird though? I'm gonna make sure that the kids not a pain in the ass before I marry the dad is kind of a It's tough. You know what I mean? My kids teacher get a couple of facts about their my kid their name and their age outside of that you teach them the rest Let's talk about everything else. I got going on well Shit, she thought they were girlfriends just fucking hanging out there. Just gabbing. Let's gabbing. If you're listening to this podcast, then chances are good you are a fan of the Strange,

Dark and Mysterious. And if that's the case, then I've got some good news. We just launched a brand new Strange, Dark and Mysterious podcast called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries. And as the name suggests, it's a show about medical mysteries, a genre that many fans have been asking us to dive into for years. And we finally decided to take the plunge and the show is awesome. In this free weekly show, we explore bizarre, unheard of diseases, strange medical mishaps, unexplainable deaths and everything in between. Each story is totally true and totally terrifying. Go follow Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

And if you're a Prime member, you can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music. Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one of her own novels. She was a romance mystery writer who happens to be married to a chef. But this story didn't end with a happily ever after. When I stepped into the kitchen, I could see that Chef Brophy was on the ground and I heard somebody say, call 911. As writers, we'd written our share of murder mysteries.

So when suspicion turned to Dan's wife, Nancy, we weren't that surprised. The first person they look at would be the spouse. We understand that's usually the way they do it. But we began to wonder, had Nancy gotten so wrapped up in her own novels… There are murders in all of the books. …that she was playing them out in real life? You can listen to Happily Never After, Dan and Nancy early and ad free right now by joining

Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. If you're listening to this podcast, then chances are good you are a fan of the Strange, Dark and Mysterious. And if that's the case, then I've got some good news. We just launched a brand new strange, dark and mysterious podcast called Mr. Bolland's Medical Mysteries. And as the name suggests, it's a show about medical mysteries, a genre that many fans have been asking us to dive into for years. And we finally decided to take the plunge and the show is awesome. In this free weekly show, we explore bizarre, unheard of diseases,

strange medical mishaps, unex and Sue Ann and Ed get married. So December 1978 she says okay, I'm ready to take the plunge and Sue Ann and Ed get married they purchase a new home in a very nice neighborhood in Overland Park, Kansas Yeah, and they live together with little Suzanne and little Chris. That's how they do it. And so it's going fine Everything appears to be okay Nobody's being called to break up fights. Sue Ann hasn't pulled any guns on anybody. That's good. Yeah. Terrific. Terrific. Then Jimmy Jr. comes a-knockin'.

Yeah. Well, Jimmy Jr. comes back into the picture here. He drove over. Well, the thing is, it's Ed that convinces Sue Ann to bring Jimmy Jr. to the house. Really? He said, how can you have not talked to your son in fucking nine years? That's insane. Bring him here.

That's nuts. Because she would talk about how the father, Jimmy Crumb Sr., is not a good father and he's a piece of shit and all this. He was like, we have a nice house and all this stuff. Bring him here. We'll fucking raise him this is crazy. How could you leave a boy with a piece of shit? That's the thing and that's exactly what it was so he said that he asked that Ed himself said he asked Jimmy little Jimmy jr. to move into his

home because one time they went to when he had talked her into going and seeing him at least and picking him up and visiting him. They went to pick him up where he was staying with his father and his father's new wife and Ed said quote it was brutal. I wouldn't treat an animal the way they were treating Jimmy. Oh my just terrible. They said he didn't have any like decent clothes or you know anyway he was he was he was like 14 at the time and he wasn't going to school most of the time

because he would pick up day work and shit. What? Like they would let the kid do day labor shit instead of going to ninth grade, stuff like that. Where was he living? Right near here, near in the Kansas City suburbs. Jesus. Yeah, it's fucking strange.

So. No good. There was problems immediately here. Um, and that was the kids melding and both kids kind of reached Suzanne and Chris both kind of, uh, rebelled a little bit against this whole thing once they got married and then Jimmy Jr comes into the picture and so there's a little more struggle. He's got plenty of reasons to be mad. He's got issues too. Yeah, all these kids have a lot of anger. Reasons to be angry is the problem. So Ed said, we had problems, yes, but any two people, regardless of their walks of life that get married are going to

have problems. We were bringing my son in, her daughter in, we were bringing four totally different people from all walks of life into one household and we knew there was going to be some jealousies and some bickering back and forth. Which is why they went to counseling ahead of time, because they anticipated this. So at least they seem healthy enough to know there might be problems and to actually try to solve them.

That's good. But the problem is, they invite Ed and Sis that Jimmy move in too. Well, Jimmy Jr. is gonna move in. Yeah, we gotta get him out of that fucking environment. That's bullshit. So they bring in Jimmy Jr. and she, mom here, who hasn't done shit for him in 10 years,

has very high expectations of him. That he be very well put together, he get good grades, he's got all this different shit. Now meanwhile, she has no idea what he's been doing. He's been doing day labor because he hasn't been going to school and stuff like that. He hasn't been raised well. So now she's got it. She's like now act like a kid who's been raised perfectly. Act like a kid whose mother didn't run away on him and not fucking call him for 10 years. Act like that please. Now let's leave it to be for this. Yeah totally. So

he starts to rebel a little bit. He'll eventually, after a little bit of a while here, he'll end up getting his own apartment. Jimmy? Yeah, when he's 16, he'll just get his own apartment. So I guess they say that Sue Ann was rude toward Jimmy, her own son. The thing is, though, everybody said that she hated Chris, stepson did not like him at all couldn't fucking stand him Thought he was a real pain in the ass Doesn't like her son or the stepson hates little boys really. What is it with boys? I don't know, but she hates him She hated him so much. She would even call them names in front of other people shit like that, which is tough She said Starting in 1979, she started talking to Jimmy Jr.

about sending Chris to a mental hospital or sending him off to military school or just something where he's not in my house, she would say. Just getting rid of him. Getting rid of him, so wherever it is, I don't care. Commit him, send him to a military school, I don't give a shit, just out of my house.

Wow. Then around 1980, she kept saying that she wanted to get, she hopes she can get rid of him before Christmas because she doesn't want to have to spend money on Christmas gifts for him. So by the end of this year, we got to get him either in a mental hospital or military school or somewhere where I don't have to buy him presents. Kids are going to cost me $300, $400. Yeah. What do they think? He doesn't come home from military school for Christmas?

Right. Haven't you seen the ref? Give me a fucking break. Christmas is the time they get rid of him too. That's it. You're gonna still have to buy him presents. Um, I guess as time went on, she liked him less and less and less to the point where if he walked into a room, she'd walk out of a room.

Wasn't interested in seeing Chris at all. What? Sue Ann wants nothing to do with her stepson who was 12 going on 13 at this point, late 79, early 80. That's bizarre shit. It's fucking weird. It's weird. And she's treating her own son terribly also.

Suzanne though, everybody says she's fine with Suzanne. Well she must be because she took her with her and has had her with her for a while. So Jimmy has a lot of issues, Jimmy Jr. Let's just say. Old Jimmy Jr. admitted that he started drinking alcohol around 10. Like just casually, not like a drink.

Like he started drinking like, ah, it's been a long day. Gotta relieve it with some booze. Pull a big plug out of this, yeah. Yeah, he started stealing after that too. And a lot of it was there was very little parental supervision with him at all From his dad's side. He was also into drugs Jimmy's into drugs. Yeah so Yeah, he now later on when Ed's asked why did Jimmy Jimmy jr. Come to live with you Ed said because I asked him to

Everybody deserves a good start. I just felt sorry for the kid Ed said because I asked him to everybody deserves a good start. I just felt sorry for the kid Yeah, he explained that he'd been living with the former husband had shit clothes We'd go to work instead of school and that he said though Jimmy Crum When he came in affected the family's adjustment They were all adjusting to each other in the first year or so and then you throw in a wild card like a 15 year old with a fucking drug problem and a penchant for stealing and you can really throw the whole thing into a whirly bird at that point. It's all messed up now.

A 15 year old wearing clothes too small for him too. Yeah, pissed off wearing high waters. Yeah, there's no flood motherfucker, I know that. Ready to throw down over that because he's heard it enough from kids at school He's tired of it. We're in short corduroys. Oh this sucks Ed said if everything was going Jimmy's way everything was fine. If it wasn't there was hell to pay It's about Jimmy. Yeah, I guess Jimmy crumb refused to attend family counseling sessions with the rest of the family They found not only weed in his room. They also found coke. They found acid He's doing it all he's whatever he can get his hands on. He just puts it in his room and then they find it

He also got into trouble using stolen credit cards in early 1980 Yeah, Jimmy Crum at that point after that he moves out of the house in early 1980 and into an apartment in his own apartment which is really weird. Jimmy was a really bad student. Wow, that sounds like they're talking about me in high school. This is both of us. This is this is bad. If you don't know my whole family. Comedy is the only place where I'm called James by the way. That's literally the only place on earth. When I started comedy in Phoenix there was like 12 guys named Jimmy, including you. And I said, well, I can't be fucking Jimmy. I guess. I guess I'm James now. And I'd never been called or used the word James in my entire fucking life.

Before I started comedy. Not even just in local Phoenix comedy. Like on the planet there are so many Jimmies. Out of every late-night show three out of four of them at a cost named Jimmy It was fucking ridiculous. It was too much So I can't do this anymore. I gotta be that so yeah, whenever I hear this I hear my family saying this Jimmy was not a very good student. Yes, I know okay I didn't do it and you know know what? It worked out fine. Did I need any of that shit? No. And also, I partly blame you guys.

You sure didn't help me. Yeah. Where the fuck were you? I was a kid. This is what I mean. They blame. I don't know. I didn't know what I was doing. Set me up for success. You fucking jerks. No. They said that his grades were normally either failures

or just inferior, like D's or worse And they said if anything they got a little worse as he grew older his grades, too. Yeah He'll end up dropping out of high school. Oh and by early 1980 here first couple months of 1980 after he gets an apartment He's got a roommate and everything he drops acid He does coke and says that he has a, this is remarkable. This is like a professional wrestler level of tolerance here. He did an average of a hundred to a hundred and fifty Valium per day. He said a hundred to a hundred

and fifty. There's no way. If you build up to it. Yeah. The wrestler Raven talked about when he went into rehab in the nineties, he was doing about a hundred and seventy five perks a day. That's what he was doing and they told him Holy shit, you're gonna die if we stop you doing this like yeah, we got a wean you off man This is that's heroin though. But yeah, I guess I can is just like a it's a better. Yeah. Yeah, it's not it's not like heroin Yeah, I don't know what I know there's different milligrams on those Maybe they were small one two to eight mils a hundred fucking a day hundred of them. It doesn't matter

How do you get that many? How do you have a yeah that many at that age? She's 16 Yeah, forget affording. How do you have access to that? Whether or not you can afford it Fucking level we had to chip in on an eighth when I was 16, all of us. We'd all throw in $5 and get a fucking eighth and be like, yeah, we got that now. We'd smoke the eighth and that's all we had. If we could afford an ounce, we would have smoked it. A hundred Valium? What the fuck?

Percocets were like $5 to $7 a pill, right? I know they're more than that now. I don't know what they were in 1980. I can't imagine what a Perc or what a Val valium cost five to ten bucks I guess. Valium were a lot more common back then though too. Really? That's yeah. They were prescribed real real common. Yeah if you went to the doctor and went I get a little nervous sometimes they go here's a valium and they just give you it takes some valium. It was like the remember uh Henry Hill and Goodfellas. Hey doctor took mercy on me He gave me two Valium and told me to fucking told me to rest

It was just like here just take some value every every movie in the 80s The the the housewife was drinking chardonnay and taking two three Valium Yeah, cuz she was comatose and nobody could fuck her She didn't want to anyway So he also Jimmy reads at a much lower grade level than where he is which yeah sense Yeah, wouldn't go to anyway, so it's good. So he also, Jimmy reads at a much lower grade level than where he is, which makes sense. Wouldn't go to the counseling sessions, like I said. They found drugs in his bedroom, stolen credit cards,

all this type of shit. So Chris, on the other hand, he goes to Indian Creek Junior High School. He was enrolled in a remedial course called the Learning Center, which is the remedial version of that but over the from 79 into 80 his grades had been coming up creeping up yeah he turned it all around he said his grades went from C's and D's to B's and A's. Not bad. Being here his

father said he picked up so much he'd spend hours up there in his bedroom studying he wanted to be a computer programmer Well, he fucking nailed it to have to want to be a computer programmer in 1980 is brilliant because you're gonna be on the cutting Edge and you're gonna have very high paying jobs. Yeah Valley pretty soon you think about that you are gonna own the 90s man if you oh, yeah, he's only 13 Think about that shit. He's 13 at the time. He could by the time he's only 13 think about that shit he's 13 at the time he could by the time he's 20 it'll be 1987 like it's perfect whoo it's all about to blow up right before him so really really smart thing he wants to do

he said we talked about him going to college and getting a master's degree in that so he was talking about what he wanted. Yeah. Now his teacher, Mrs. Schenck again here, this is the same one that Sue Ann had talked to and told all her problems to. The guy with the scabbing. Yeah, she even said he had been having problems but had been making progress. She said he seems a lot happier and more relaxed

and really started talking, taking responsibility for himself and doing things that he needed to do. So good for him. Now, February of 1980, okay, Jimmy was going hunting. Jimmy Jr. Jimmy Jr.'s going hunting. His mother said, bring Chris with you.

Okay? And she said, in passing, and he didn't know if his mom was serious, but kind of thought that she was He said if you can shoot Chris and kill him and leave him there So he took that seriously as mom told me to shoot Chris and leave him in the woods Yeah, but he couldn't do it. He said he got out there with him and they're hunting goes I couldn't shoot my I couldn't shoot him. He was a nice kid. I'm not going to shoot him out in the woods. That seemed crazy. He was going to do it.

Yeah, he thought about it. He was like, she told me to. I don't know. My word. Maybe if I don't, she won't talk to me for another 10 years. You know what I mean? So he said when they both came home from hunting that Sue Ann was fucking pissed that Chris was there too. She was mad at him.

I told you what to do. You lazy motherfucker. Like she told him to take the trash out. Yeah, that's what I mean. I told you to clean your room and now look. Now it stinks. You didn't do anything. You didn't wash the dishes.

People are coming over in a half hour. The whole place is a mess. You guys are assholes. Chris is still here. I know you left shit marks in the toilet Didn't you didn't you clean it? So that's February 1980 and she must be pretty serious about this because in March of 1980 She decides one night

Chris is having a bowl of ice cream Yeah, and she says I'll get it for you which is weird that she would want to do anything for him But she, I'll get it for you. Which is weird that she would want to do anything for him, but she says, I'll get it for you. She put, okay, she gives him the ice cream, he eats the ice cream, and then he went to sleep for like 14 hours. And then woke up and she was angry when he woke up. That's not, you don't fall asleep after ice cream usually. No, well you do if someone puts eight quail ouds in it It's you put quail food eight quail ouds in it

Like like he's a bassist for a fucking rock band eight quail ouds. What are you fucking? He's not in motorhead Yeah, what do you decaprio and wolf of wall street? What are you eating eight quail ouds Wow? Yeah, so that is what she does and she hoped that would kill him. Eight quailudes. Which, what were they gonna do? I'm sure they would have looked and done a talk screen and said, Oh, your kid does quailudes? Weird. Your kid died of a great night. We found out your kid is super cool, brah. That's fucking, he's awesome, man. He's doing quailudes. Diagnosis? Too rad to live. Too rad to live. Too cool, bro. He's awesome, man. He's doing quakes. Diagnosis? Too rad to live. Too rad to live. Too cool to die.

So yeah, that's what it was. We're looking for a bass player if he makes it though, if he pulls through, man. It sounds like he's probably good. So he wakes up, she's pissed off, and there's rumors that during this time she tried again to spike his his real with pills But that didn't work either the kids got a strong constitution apparently. Yeah, it won't work out But so coolest kid in school now now. He's just awesome. He's got a great quail who tolerance the best in junior high Best quail who tolerance in the eighth grade jacket. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's all metal man. He's all fucking metal

Yeah in 1980 could have joined Metallica for Christ's sake I can perfect so April 17th 1980 comes around and Ed and Sue Ann were on a dinner date Which sounds nice, but we'll find out it's not very romantic at all here Um Ed had gone straight from work from work to a union meeting in Kansas City for the local dog food makers 413 division. They have a union there. Local kibble farmers of America. Yeah, that's what it is. Local kibble curators of America. You got to have alliteration.

So he called home to see what was cooking for dinner before he left. Imagine that. He's like, let me call and see what we're having for dinner on the way out. So he said, normally we don't go out to eat, but it was already 7 p.m. So Sue Ann said, why don't we just stop and have a hamburger? Like we'll go out and grab a burger here So they go out for a romantic dinner at the Burger King and overland park. All right a sit-down romantic a Sit down date night over a double cheeseburger. Yeah over a Whopper Jr.

Junior she's watching her figure, you know what I mean? My eyes over a whopper. Junior. She's watching her figure. You know what I mean? They return home at 8.30 PM. So they really milked the whole experience here. When they get home, Chris is gone. His homework is undone, not done yet, sitting in his bedroom.

So that's odd for Chris because his homework is A1 priority at this point for him. He's been getting As and Bs. So it's very odd that his homework is A1 priority at this point for him, he's been getting As and Bs, so it's very odd that his homework isn't done. So they look all around, they can't find him anywhere. Where the fuck is Chris? He's only 13, where did he go? You know what I mean? So they're asking where'd he go.

Now Suzanne is home, the daughter, she's 15 at the time, and she said that he was home doing his homework, last time she saw him he was doing his homework, she Last time she saw him, he was doing his homework. She went to take a shower, but when she got out of the shower, she couldn't find him either. He wasn't in his room anymore. When she walked by there and then she didn't see him. She doesn't know where he is.

She didn't see him in his room and just said, I don't know. He's somewhere. Who cares? And she didn't see him leave. So Ed went into the basement looking for his son, too. Maybe he's in the basement. He looks around. He doesn't find his son, but what he does notice is on his gun rack, one of his shotguns is missing. Okay. So Chris is left with a shotgun. The 12 gauge that Chris uses. That's he's

a, yeah. Yeah. That's his, that gun is missing. He's like, okay. Uh, that's weird. Interesting. He said, I didn't suspect anything until 10 p.m. that night and then it just didn't set right. So by 1030 he called the police and said, my son's gone and he's got a gun and I don't know what's going on here. So he got worried about him. And he's 13. He's 13. Yeah, we need to get him back now. So the authorities launch an APB and go looking for him because he's a child. So they can look, they didn't say call back in two days, you know, so they look for him. Let us know if he turns up.

Yeah, we'll take him off the board if he comes up. So they look for him and they can't find him. No one can find him. And for several days, no one can find him. Wow. And Ed is just beside himself. Ed is going everywhere looking for him. Call the cops every half hour. Where are you guys? Where'd you look? I'm gonna be over here. I'm going here trying to coordinate efforts with them and everything like that. They're thinking

why would he run away? You know, that's, would he run away? So they talked to his friends. They talked to Chris's friends because normally kids that age will confide in somebody something they're gonna do. Yeah, kids know, their friends know more than the parents do, all the time. Yeah. Every time. And especially if they're gonna run away, it's almost like a, unless it's from a very abusive situation, it's almost like a power move.

So you'll tell your friends you're gonna do that thing. You know what I mean? Otherwise it's kind of pointless, unless there's a lot of abuse and they're running away from that. But that's not really what's going on here So one of his friends named Bob said when some of us were mad at our parents for not letting us do something We'd sometimes talk about running away and he said but Chris would never even talk about running away Yeah, 13 year old named Bob, huh? Bob. Yeah poor guy. How you doing? But how's the wife and kids Bob?

When I was like 20 I had a job and there was this guy who was 19 years old and his name was Bob Bob, yeah, poor guy. How you doing? How's the wife and kids, Bob? When I was like 20, I had a job and there was this guy who was 19 years old and his name was Bob and he was like, his hair had like, he had like a very like 40, like in their 40s dad haircut and he wore like these button down plaid shirts and khakis to work and every time I go, how the wife and kids, Bob? I knew he lived with his mother and he just, he was going to like community college and every time he got, but Bob you're wearing loafers and your name is Bob. I'm still, we're 19. What the fuck are you doing? It's Bobby at this point, man.

No, Bob. So fucking, we're just go by Robert or something. Yeah. You know, Robbie, I don't know. You don't get Bob until you're 35. 35 is, but you have to have three kids and you know. And a reason to be mad. Three kids and you're applying for a management position before you're like, call me Bob, when you go into the interview. You've been rejected twice before. Yeah.

So he said that he, five days before he went missing, Chris went to Bob's 15th birthday party and Bob said he looked like he was having a real good time and seemed in real high spirits. He's just not the type to run away. And in addition to that, Chris has a motorcycle and a bicycle that are both still in the garage. Chris has, okay, like a dirt bike. Like a dirt bike. So if a kid who's 13 is running away. My transportation is going with me. You're taking at least your bike with you.

Absolutely, you need to be able to get around here. You need wheels. Yeah, the gas is gonna run out of that motorcycle eventually. Then what am I gonna do? Yeah, the bike, you can, it's not gonna break down as often. That goes forever, yeah. It'll go forever, and none of his clothes are missing either, is the other thing that's very strange.

None of his clothes are missing. He left with a shirt on his back and a shotgun and a shotgun and no form of transportation And his undone homework, and it's just very very strange so the next day here Basically people are there at cops are asking a lot of questions of the how is the family would to see if he would run away basically how was his family life, and they said they got a real portrait of Sue Ann as nervous and patient, jumpy and always on edge. Like a poodle, basically.

Just always going. Poodle woman here. And they said from, that's how everyone described her. But then from April 18th, the day after he went missing, and everybody said that she seemed at peace and relaxed and happy Yeah, which is like Cinderella our stepmom was decent compared to this fucking lady We're not I mean she's at least Cinderella stepmom didn't put quail ouds in her ice cream. I don't think yeah She made her scrub shit, but yeah, she would have been terrible at scrubbing on quail ouds. That's why

She probably gave her like uppers in her ice cream Keep going kid. Yeah, no, I know it's 2 a.m. But those correct route isn't gonna cleanudes. That's why she probably gave her like uppers in her ice cream. Keep going kid. Yeah, no, I know it's 2 a.m. But those ground isn't going to clean itself. Let's go. Let's go. Cindy move it. I'll explain why she thought birds were dressing her. Yeah. All of this is just a quail. It was all one big quail. Hallucination delusion. That's all. The whole night. It's just like I crazy. I rode to the ball in a pumpkin man. It was fucking awesome man. And then like the most rich handsome guy,

like we like danced all night. And then he like gave me a shoe. It was amazing. That sounds like a high thought. Nothing turned back into mice and pumpkins. She just sobered up at midnight. Yeah, I was like, whoa, what the fuck man? Jesus, she had rabies.

She's been just getting bitten by rats and mice all night. Just, oh Jesus, what happened? Jesus Christ, ass is sore. Did I do something last night? So the next night a friend named Margie Hunt, who's a friend of Sue Ann, said that she and Sue Ann went out drinking on April 18th. The day after. Yeah, Ed is out looking for his son.

She's just chill, having a great time. She's going to the bar with her friend. She's doing shots. She's doing a secretary's night out over here. Like what the fuck? And she said that it felt that night like that Sue Ann was out celebrating something. Like she was like, you know, just graduated college or or some shit she was out having a good old time. We'll have some slippery nipples.

Woo. Now they end up a man ends up calling the police department saying that he found a wallet containing he saw that there was a missing kid and I found a wallet with a library card with that kid's name in it. Oh Jesus. Yeah. Yeah so that's the creepiest find of all time. That's where it was just lying in a shopping malls parking lot. In a strip mall parking lot just sitting there. So they have a wallet and it's in a strip mall parking lot in Overland Park so they but they have no Chris they don't know what to do. So they end up, after that, they go,

okay, if his wallet's gone and all this, now they really search for him. Like, they don't just think he ran away now. Now they're thinking there's trouble. So they launch a huge air and ground search and everything. Planes, helicopters, you name it, all this type of shit. They do find a pair of tattered blue jeans and a plaid flannel shirt in a wooded area

between Null and Interstate 435. The clothes are Chris's size, but his parents say they're not a part of his wardrobe. He doesn't have those clothes. So that's interesting. Some other kid apparently had his clothes ripped off his body and thrown out here. He's 13 It's not like an adult had it happen to you know the difference between an adult and a child's clothes You know I mean for sure yeah, if he was 16. It's different, but 13. You're a boy You're not you know unless you're probably time where man's clothes Only time a kid leaves their clothes out in the woods as if they shat them while camping Yes, is there shit upon them? Yeah?

Does it look like they feasted upon Hormel chili out of a campfire? And these pants are all like torn up too, which is strange. So when they hear the clothes, they get, oh, maybe we found Chris, even if something bad happened, something happened. But then they say, no, they're not a part of his wardrobe. So we never find out if they were or they weren't. So Ed says he has no idea what happened to his son. He is frantic. He's on the phone with the cops several times a day.

Still, where are you? Where'd you look? He wants to know everything. He said he was positive. He tells the newspaper he is 100% sure his son did not run away. Didn't. He said, number one, Chris had a phobia about being out at night alone. That's one.

So that didn't happen. He said he did not like darkness by himself. As long as I was with him, it didn't bother him, but not by himself. He's still a kid. Yeah, but in my 40s, that's fucked up, being out just walking anywhere. Whether it's even if it's in a fucking metropolis.

When it's dark out, I hate it alone. Really? Oh my god, I don't a city street walk alone No, I can't wait for an uber to pick me up. Can't wait. Oh shit. I don't know why I enjoy that for some reason Don't like it. I don't know why yeah, well, I don't know I'm frightened. Oh, I don't know. I wasn't even thinking about it like that. I was just it's kind of like I'm just a little guy and I'm watching things. I mean, even when I walk down the street, like with a fucking stare and feel like I'm fucking

unfuck with the bull, I'm still fucked with. Walking down the street in Sacramento, I'm walking with a, I'm smoking a black and mild and a guy fucking shadowed me as I was walking towards him. I'm trying to walk around him and every step I take, he blocks me off and then asks to hit the cigar. I'm like, you can just have it, man. I'm gonna share a cigar with you, this is weird.

That's because you were in his bathroom, though. That's the problem. Yeah. Yes. There's a lot of poop on the sidewalk there. Yeah, I think you were in his bathroom. I mean, I was in his living room, I was in his bathroom.. Yeah You're all up in dudes business. I don't think he liked it So anyway, he doesn't like me. That's fucking great. Yeah, he doesn't like being out there by himself

I guess in the rural area or anything He said I knew he hadn't run away also one thing I taught him all his life was that he couldn't run from his problems if he had done something wrong He was to face it. And then he looked down, he said, and now I wish to God I had told him to run, because something obviously happened. So he's very, by the way, in the newspaper it says,

he paused, looking suddenly old, as looking suddenly as old as the light, looking suddenly old as the light played with his whiskey. So he's drinking whiskey, talking about his son old as the light played with his whiskey. So he's drinking whiskey, talking about his son. As the light played with his whiskey. He's fucking sitting there drinking whiskey. Now, I wish to God I told him to run and then he finished his drink.

Who the fuck wrote that? Wow, somebody wants to be an author that works with this. They're working on their first novel, this guy at home here. Somebody just painted that portrait lovely. Oh man, looking old old as the night as the late light played with his whiskey It's three fingers of whiskey Wow. That is hilarious. So While this is going on this is he's you know in the first week we can't find Chris Sue Ann starts doing some weird shit like giving away Chris's clothes and bedroom furniture She's that giving shit away of his that's no hmm. He's been gone like six days

She was helpful. He's coming back and she's like time to clear it out Fuck them. Yeah, the Ed's out with the cop searching and she was at home talking about Redecorating Chris's bedroom and turning it into an office. So she's telling her friends, I gotta get rid of his shit so I can turn it into an office. They're like, aren't you looking for him? She's like, yeah, but you know, we'll turn it into an office. He can sleep on the couch, he's blown it.

Wow, that is fucking insane. So that's really weird. And she even told on the 18th when she went out drinking, part of what she was telling her friend about was her plans to redecorate the bedroom. Why would she do that? Wasn't even gone 24 hours yet. So a tip comes in here from a young girl.

Not from Sue Ann's drinking partner? No, not from her. She should have been like, I have to use the restroom, Sue Ann, and then go to the pay phone by the bathroom. You really want to come here with this bitch is saying because it is fucking crazy. Like, wow. I'll wear a wire right now.

This is unbelievable. This is wild. So they get a call from a 15 year old girl who claimed that she was at a party with a bunch of kids from school and heard a guy named Paul Sorrentino talking about getting rid of a teenage boy. Okay. At a party. Paulie, hey Paulie Sorrentino, what are you doing? Why is it always you Paulie Sorrentino?

Come on Paulie. What are you doing Paulie? Jesus Christ Paulie, you're making it hard for me when I say it on stereotype and then you do shit like this. So Paul E. The police reportedly said the tipster, at that point they asked the girl to come into the police station. She does. They make her call Paul Sorrentino to get him to talk about Chris while they record it. Okay. During the conversation, he admitted that he got rid of quote got rid of Chris. Why did you do it?

Well as a favor for my friend Jimmy Crumb Jr. Oh boy. Okay that's it's getting weird now. So the cops are they still don't talk to the boys right away because they want to try to see if they have anything on them that they can pin them with here. So then on May 3rd, 1980, there are a couple of boys looking for worms in the Edgerton area. Okay, now we're in Edgerton here, which is in the area of Bull Creek. Okay.

And they're looking for worms for a fishing trip the next day, which is weird because last week we had a story about the little girl with blood all over coming out and talking to the boy looking for worms. So it's dangerous for a little boy to look for worms guys. Don't do it. Also as a father to pick worms is so hard to do. It is. It is. And they are a dollar ninety nine. Just go buy the fucking worms. Everywhere. Anywhere within three miles of a river, a creek, a lake, something, every gas station has a little fridge with fucking night crawlers in it for like $2.99. So cheap. They're so cheap.

So cheap. And a little foam with a lid. Just buy the bait, man. Don't pick any worms. It's so easy. Like at my house, if you go take a scoop of dirt out of my woods, there'll be like 12 worms in it. Really?

Oh my God. There's so many fucking worms back there, it's insane. Jesus. It's insane, yeah, it's wild. But to look for them, I guess they're cheap, and that's something you can tell your kids to go do. Go dig for worms. Go pick some worms. That'll occupy some time.

Jesus. Well, they're digging, and while they're digging, they come across something horrible. How deep are they digging? 16 to 18 inches. They're going almost two feet deep for worms? Yeah, a foot and a half for worms. Oh my god.

Yeah, because they're going to be down where the soil is moist. They don't hang out. Just by the worms. By the fucking worms. Someone's parents are being cheap as shit. Yeah. Well, in here, they discover a body in a 16 to 18 inch deep grave. Oh, very shallow grave here.

And the police, they go home and they tell their parents and they call the cops and the police come and they find it as a small, very decomposed, as you might imagine, because it's been in the ground for almost three weeks now. And it's a small boy, and they're worried that it's Chris. This child has three shotgun wounds.

Three. One in the back of the head. Good Lord. One in the chest and arm area, and one in the back of the head. Good lord. One in the chest and arm area and one in the throat. Wow. Two different types of shotguns used. Is that right? 20 gauge and a 12 gauge. They figure out through the holes in the size of the wounds here.

So this is horrific. I mean this kid has been shot to shit and just had basically just a thin layer of dirt put over him. Yeah from chest high too that's fucked up. It's fucking crazy and the other part that's crazy is they're lucky these kids were doing worms out here because they were about to they wouldn't have found him this body ever pretty soon because had it gone undiscovered for the next year It would have never been recovered The site is in a sparsely populated area that they were just about to cover with millions of gallons of water to form the new Hildale hillsdale reservoir they were gonna make a lake the project was gonna be done in the next year

So they were just about to completely flood this fucking area. You would have never found that kid. Wow. Ever, because he was already decomposed. He probably wouldn't have floated, and that would have been that. No, and he's deep. I mean, he's almost two feet deep. He's about to have a lake on top of him. Yep.

So that would have been that. No one would have ever fucking found him, except for a couple kids needing worms. Yeah. Which, wow. Seeking the treasure. Yep. Yeah, which seek in the treasure Yep, so The there's now there's rumors spreading all over Shawnee Mission High South High School where both Paul Sorrentino and Jimmy Crumb jr. Were going to school Jimmy Crumb isn't going anymore and Paul is uh, Paul's about to drop out by the way

He's gonna drop out here in late April. He does so this is when the girl comes with information So police now since they found the body drop out here in late April, he does. So this is when that girl comes with information. So police, now, since they found the body, because at first they didn't know if it was just some kid talking shit. They couldn't bring him in and really put the screws to him because who knows, now they have a dead child. Now it's time to put the screws to these kids.

So they bring in Paul and Jimmy, who are both 16 at the time. So they sit Jimmy down and they play what the friend said and what Paul was saying on there. Get out of my life. Yep. And he said, all right, I did it. Jimmy gives it right up.

Yeah. Jimmy gives it right up. Because he's 16 and he's dumb. Yep. He said that my mom came over to my apartment that day and said some things. He had been making derogatory remarks about my sister Suzanne and this other shit.

And he said that his mom asked him to do it. His mom said, will you do this? We gotta get rid of this kid. His mom also told him that Chris was the one who turned him in for the credit card fraud he was committing. And Chris didn't do that at all. That's not what happened.

But she told him that to piss him off. So he'd go, all right, yeah, fuck that kid. So, wow, he met up, she came over and met Jimmy in the apartment complex parking lot and told him that something had to be done about Chris was his quote. Something had to be done. He said that she said she would buy him a new car. I'll buy you a sports car if you do this is what she told him.

He said, well, I don't know if I can do this by myself. I don't know what to do here. So she said, well, who do you know, I don't know if I can do this by myself. I don't know what to do here. So she said, well, who do you know? Get somebody else then to. Oh, I know a real dumb, loudmouth kid. I know a guy. Yeah, perfect. I know some fucking dumb Guinea that'll do it.

Yeah. So I know a guy that talks more than most Italians. Yeah. He really likes to likes to spread his news of violence rather than keeping it under his hat here so they end up he ends up going to Paul Sorrentino and She said Sue Ann asked Jimmy. What does Paul want to participate? Yeah, and the answer was $300 so he could repair his motorcycle Wow, which is an amazing deal right there.

If he wasn't 16, I'd say he's definitely a cop, is what I would say. He's definitely- That's 99.5% off. That is way too little to kill a child. I will kill a child for $300 as bonkers. Oh boy, Polly is dangerous. Oh, that's a fucking poof, man, that is crazy. How many parts does he need for his motorcycle, you know, $300

Yeah, Sater and I'll kill your mother. Well, you think he would like inflate the price a little bit like an estimate from a shop Like get a new bike 950. I think you know, you just need spark plugs, but he's like, you know 950 Maybe maybe a grand. I'm not sure. But I think, you know, up the price a little bit. Pad your estimate, douchebag. Yeah, don't ride this bike anymore. He said $300. I'm going to fix my shadow.

Later on, the figure fluctuates to maybe as much as $350 was promised. So never more. That's the highest figure given is $350. There's also 320 thrown around a little bit. So which is the least we've ever heard of battery and a throttle cable. I'll do it. Have we ever heard of anybody? No, do anything. Usually when it's five grand, we go too cheap. That's a cheap. Yeah, this is I think we've had them for $500 down. You know what I mean? Like, you know, grand once the insurance comes right, but this is just 300 and 300 done deal That's button paid for that's my fee

Wow so Jimmy jr. Says that he and Paul went to the house to the Hobson house that night and Convinced Chris to come for a ride with them While Jimmy would went in the basement and grab the shotgun. So while they were doing stuff, Paul was talking to Chris, Jimmy went down and grabbed the shotgun. So they took him, it gets worse here. They take him out here where they found young Jimmy. They get him out of the car both holding shotguns on him, and then they listen to this

This is this is like so fucking cruel. They force him to dig his own grave Oh, come on They force him to dig his own grave, and then he they made him sit down in it And then they shot the fuck out of him Wow so they wouldn't have to move him That are 13 man. What is this the Camille Rouge? Like what the fuck is happening is this this is like what you know? They did to like Vietnamese prisoners back then like they would you know the the northern army would shoot him in the head They'd fall into a fucking hole. This is insane

What is going on here, man? That's holy shit. That's cruel Super fucked up. For two teenagers to think about this? And your stepbrother. Your stepbrother that's what I mean you know him you know he's a nice kid and you're gonna make him dig his own fucking grave and then sit in it and did the kid he might not have known that these kids were serious he might have thought they were fucking with him you get hazed and razzed by 16 year olds when you're 13 and your brother they might this might be a way to fuck with him. Ha ha ha ha

They're gonna laugh at him and then fucking go come on. Let's go get Dairy Queen. That's some rural Kansas jokes Yeah, that is not a funny joke at all Yeah If someone if I had an older brother and they did that to me and I went home and told my father he would murder That he would murder my older brother good news. There's's a grave already dug. Get in the back seat. I'm taking you back out there. Where are you going? We're going to that freshly dug grave.

Remember that grave you made your brother dig? That's where we're going. Hop on the back of the Harley. That would have been my day. Let's go. We're going. Get on. Get on.

You can either jump off when I'm going 60 or we're heading there. Those are your options. So yeah, they said, why did your, why did your mother want her stepson dead so bad? She said, the kid said, quote, she just didn't like him. Jimmy. She just didn't like him. That's what Jimmy said. Sue Ann.

She said he caused unrest in the family. Oh, good Lord. Wow. He said that on the day of the killing, he decided not to go through with it. He didn't want to do it. He had, they had talked about it go through with it. He didn't want to do it. He had talked about it, but he said, I don't want to do this. You know, it was like this the last time she tried to make me do it. I didn't want to do it. She said, but his mother forced him.

He said, quote, she was very upset. And when she found out that he had decided not to kill Chris, quote, she wanted to know what the hell was going on. She said it was too late now to back out. Yeah. Why? Just stop doing it. Because this is the best bargain I've ever gotten in my life. Yeah, it's going to cost me nothing.

Don't you fuck this bargain up for me. Fuck. So yeah, she wanted him dead. That was that. Jimmy Jr. told the cops that his mother told him on several occasions that something had to be done and had forced him into helping. What's her fucking problem?

He then told them about the Quailoot ice cream, which is not my favorite flavor of Ben and Jerry's, honestly. No, it's... You know, I like that Americone Dream. That one's pretty good, you know, I like a Pistachio. I think that fish one is overrated. That fish food is... That's not my favorite, no.

I think it's a bit, uh... Fish food, too much stuff going on there. Too many things, yeah. Too busy, yeah. I can't put put my mouth Can't put my finger on what's going on in there. No one's pretty rad though. They do Yeah, that's a good one there. I don't know about the quail oud cookie dough. That's a recipe So he said after that he ate the ice cream Chris started getting real groggy Stumbling around the house and then he went to bed and slept for a long time, and she was disappointed when he woke up. So then, after that failed to kill him, then she suggested, why don't you do it, Jimmy Jr.?

He said, quote, she told me to make it look like a suicide or an accident, possibly a drug overdose. He said the first time he asked me to find someone to kill him, but later she decided that maybe I could do it. Do you know anyone? And then said, you know what, kid, you're responsible. I think you got this in ya. You're almost a man, I think it's time.

I think it's time that you had your first kill. The mafia doesn't have you kill people that young. No. Even in The Sopranos, they had Tony do it when he was like 22. And his dad was in the mafia. This is fucking crazy so Yeah, he said that she wanted someone that maybe you could do it then she said well, maybe you could find someone to help you and

Yeah, he said that he's he talked to Paul because quote he seemed like the kind of guy who would do it Which is hilarious really it gets don't know anybody really. It gets even better with that. He's my most badass friend really. He's the toughest guy in the 11th grade. He gave himself a tattoo. I thought he could do it. It was wild.

I can't even tell what it's of. He doesn't draw it well, but he did it. Just three dots on his hand. He wrote something on there. But she says that later on we'll find out why Sue Ann thought it was a good idea to use Paul. It's pretty funny. But she said that she thought his dad might be this is great. Paul would be a good choice because Sue Ann thought quite his dad might quote his dad might be connected with an organized

crime group. Maybe because his name is Sorrentino literally. They said why did she think that and he said because of his name Okay, we had no any other and that and that self-made tattoo yeah, and he's also in Kansas So unless he's in the witness protection program live the next door to Henry Hill eating egg noodles and ketchup like a schnuck I think he's probably not yeah It's probably not in the mob so she said he said he tried to put her off and then finally he told her that Sorrentino would do it and that it would cost $350 to fix his motorcycle and she said that sounds reasonable. It's not an estimate for fucking new windows.

It's not for new dual panes. What are you talking about? That sounds reasonable. Yeah. 100 bucks to cut the lawn twice a month? Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Yeah, get a George Foreman with that. Yeah, something, anything?

Maybe just like a toaster, like at the bank back then. So he and his friend Paul picked Chris up at home, drove him out there and did this, and then they covered his body with dirt, and his mother told him later, told Jimmy Jr. later that she was the one who threw his wallet away in the shopping center. Really?

She went and tossed it because I guess they brought it back to her. So here's his wallet. She tossed it. Yeah, I don't want to fucking want this. So he also said that his mother promised to buy him a car and that's how it is. So the cops are like, let's bring everybody in. They

find the 20 gauge. They never find the 12 gauge by the way. They can never find it. They find the 20 gauge at Sorrentino's home. So he must have just grabbed a shotgun from his shelf and went out that night and said I'll take this. But there's no way to determine if it's the same gun because the shotgun that's why Omar used a shotgun yeah it's just no ballistics the same way so no uh was it twists and screws or whatever the fuck twists and turns and all that shit so Sue Ann the cops now want to talk to Sue Ann they arrest both the boys obviously they want to talk to uh Sue Ann here about this they said she was a fucking stonewall, wouldn't admit to shit.

I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. Yep. First Paul was defiant as well when they brought Paul Sorrentino in. Then the police played the recording of the phone call that he had with the girl. They went, that's you, you stupid fuck. Remember this call? Yeah. And then he went, okay, Jimmy Crumb came to me and it was for a motorcycle and $350. His mom didn't like the gun. He was just spilling it.

I have so much I want to tell you. I should have bought a Harley. Fuck, god damn it. So and then Jimmy was talking everything too. They said that Jimmy seemed relieved to be getting this off his chest. He probably felt bad about it. He's not, he wasn't a monster before this. He was just a normal, fuck up kid.

I knew a million kids that did way worse shit than Jimmy at that age, and they're fine now. They have families and you know. Not more than murder. Not more than murder. Up until murder. Yeah, when he was just fucking around, stealing credit cards and doing coke and massive fuck heads.

That was all my friends doing shit like that. So during questioning, this is all that she will say Sue Anne. She said I had nothing to do with this She did say that Jimmy told her on April 18th that Chris had been killed But didn't not to tell anyone because and she didn't want to tell anyone because she was frightened and wanted to protect her son Yeah, and she said that she said that that Paul had told her, Paul had told Jimmy that if you don't then you know my organized crime family will kill your whole family. Oh yeah. So that's what she said. So she was scared. She was scared of getting killed by the mafia now. Still scared. She needed a bunch of kamikazes to walk down. Yeah. To hang out with her buddy there. I need a new office and some kamikazes to stop this fear of the mafia. A home office and some kamikazes will keep the mafia away.

So she admitted to the police she went to Jimmy's apartment and told him that something had to be done with Chris. She said, I discussed that with him. Yes, but not kill him. I meant like, you know, counseling or military school or something. Oh, she said police then asked her if the word killing ever came up Did it ever come up and she said no? Absolutely, not they asked her did the mention of the word get rid of him ever come up and her response was it probably did But I didn't mean it in the context of death Get rid of him like send him away somewhere, you know, like you do with a 13 year old get rid of him like

What the hell is that? So they between they also now go between five and six a.m. They go on May 4th and question Suzanne, the 15 year old. Suzanne is never considered a suspect, but she's brought to because she was home at the time. She's certainly helpful. But they bring her in during the interrogation. She volunteers a whole bunch of shit that's not good for her mother.

Notably that she overheard her and her mom and Jimmy talking about the need to get rid of Chris. And she also by the way, she knew about stuff and they said they could have charged her as an accessory but they grant her immunity if she tells everything. She had no active role in it, she just knew what was going on. Fly on the wall. And when you're 15 and it's your mom, what the fuck are you going to do?

You know what I mean? I'm not going to tell my mom anything? Yeah. So they said she definitely had some involvement so they tape her interview. She tells the officers that Chris had been causing problems between Ed and Susan and Sue Anne and that Sue Anne had told Jimmy that something Had to be done about Chris the day of the disappearance Suzanne overheard Jimmy tell Sue Anne that someone That he and someone else were gonna take care of Chris take him out and get rid of him Yeah

So at that point Sue Anne told Jimmy I'll get Ed out of the house that night so you can take Chris. So that whole Burger King thing was a fucking plan. She didn't cook on purpose, because at this point she's not working, so she's usually cooking every night. She said that this- I'll take him out for onion rings. Yeah.

This was on purpose. She didn't cook so they could go to Burger King because she knew he'd be hungry. Oh, dude, how angry would you be if your wife? Distracted you with burgers to kill your kid to have your kid whacked Couldn't even a good having a decent meal and it's a dumb plan too. Because what if he was like, no, I'm tired I worked at the fucking dog food factory all right, then I had a union meeting Let's just order a pizza and we'll eat in what if he said that yeah, you're fucked at that point I don't want to I don't want to smell anything that smells anything like dog food now nothing

Burger King counts. So she said that yes, she heard that and later that day Sueann told Suzanne that you need to stay upstairs and take a shower when you hear Jimmy come over to take credit to get Chris Jimmy's gonna get Chris at that point you see them come and you go jump in the shower. So you're not a part of this So her mother told her a few days later when Suzanne asked her mom what happened to Chris. She said that Jimmy took Chris out and took care of him and Suzanne said she thought that meant he would be killed. He was killed. I hope Suzanne has had 25, 40 years of nightmares. And then therapy also so this doesn't happen again. She also, I

mean she gave it right up though to the cops when they came for her. I mean she's still this is a dick move man. 15 I don't know if you can tell on your mom at 15 Especially not your dad's a piece of shit that can't be counted on he's a no count and now your mom's gonna be fucking going to jail What do you your mom says go go up and take a shower? So you're not part of this. That's fucked up Oh, it's mad fucked up Yeah, the mom is a monster here obviously and I feel bad for Suzanne because I think she's just a pawn in this whole thing And I don't know judging by the life. She's had I don't know so I mean obviously this wasn't cool she could have maybe done something she could have told Ed about

yeah I don't know but then what do you do because then what then what if she denies it now that both the parents are yelling at you and you're in trouble and as when you're 15 you have no agency she could have told him to get the fuck out of the house I don't know she's and the fuck out of the house. I don't know. She's like a dick to me. She's like a dick to me. I don't know. Yeah, no, no. I totally get it.

I'm trying to just play devil's advocate of what you would be thinking if you were 15 and this was going on in your house. Your family's about to murder your stepbrother. I don't know. It's bonkers, man. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to do this. She said that, Suzanne said her mom also told her that she

threw away the wallet at the shopping center. So yeah, following the interview with Suzanne, they then tape record another interview with Sue Ann after the Suzanne interview after the daughter. So this all she'll say is that she had been, Chris had been causing problems by threatening Suzanne, which Suzanne said that's not true at all, and that Sue Ann had asked Jimmy to talk to Chris and knew that Jimmy and his friend were going to take Chris out that night and try to scare him so he would leave Suzanne alone.

So that's what this was. When she found out the next day what happened, she was afraid to tell her husband. She admitted now, she hears her daughter on tape saying it, she admits to taking the wallet to the shopping center the day after the disappearance. And yeah, she just hoped that this, she said, I never thought he would hurt. It's all Jimmy Jr. He's a crazy person.

So now she's throwing her son under the bus who she has done nothing but shit on for right he was a small child time the whole fucking time you never had a goddamn chance. And she denied ever talking to Jimmy about killing Chris the day after the disappearance Jimmy called and said that Paul had killed Chris and that he said that he would kill all of them if she told anyone. So she said she couldn't do it because she was terrified of the 16 year old mafia hitman. Right? Yeah. She didn't tell her husband or the police for fear of what Sorrentino would do to her and her family and of what her husband would do to Jimmy and Paul if he found out. So it would have been a big battle. You know

what I mean? So a lot they talked to a lot of people and a lot of people say that Jimmy had stated often That he'd hated Chris and was angry with him for telling his parents that he used drugs and stole credit cards Even though he did neither of those things Chris mind their own business the Suan will say also that Jimmy kept saying he would get even with Chris. I didn't know this is what he meant. Wow, that's terrible So yeah, that's interesting. They bring in his cousin.

She's just blaming her son. Just throwing him right at Jimmy Jr. That's crazy. She's a super piece of shit. She's a huge piece of shit. She made her son do it and then fucking just threw him under the bus and was like, what a crazy person. He did what?

Poor Ed, everybody in his life wow yeah ed can't win he really can't it's a they can't depend on shit so a cousin of Chris's said in a recent interview that Chris told his grandmother a few weeks before he was killed that he was afraid of Sue Ann and Jimmy oh his stepmom and a step brother the last time this is the cousin the last time he was at my grandmother's house he begged not to go home because he was afraid of Sue Ann and Jimmy he said I don't want to go home because he's gonna kill me how bad does that grandmother feel how yeah awful would you obviously go I mean he's being dramatic oh my god

how bad would you feel holy shit when told of that statement because Ed was there and Ed when told of that statement rose because Ed was there, and Ed, when told of that statement, rose up out of his chair and angrily asked, then why didn't they get off their ass and tell somebody? If he told them that, why didn't they do something about it? Why didn't they help him? He was freaking the fuck out. Jesus Christ, he's mad at everybody now.

Ed went into a rage. So now they talk to Terry Cole, who is Jimmy's, Jimmy Jr.'s 21 year old roommate and he shares the apartment with him since April 1st. So the kid moved in for two weeks and then killed somebody and then he's gone. I don't think he's going to pay May rent. You know what I'm saying? I really don't. I think you're getting stiff there chief. He said that Jimmy Crumb did not like Chris after Chris's disappearance. J. Jimmy told him the little shit ran away. That's what he told him. A little shit ran away. He said that Jimmy Crumb repeatedly referred to his stepbrother with a derogatory

term and said that Chris had narked on him about the credit cards and the weed and the drugs. And also this roommate said that Jimmy Crum told him that Sue Ann planned to buy him A car with the money she expected to get from a lawsuit plan. She's planned to file against her former husband for child support so she Was land is back child support will finance all of this. Yes, she's gonna sue And I'm gonna sue this guy who's a fucking he's not a real good dad I don't know if he has anything to sue for at this point so now she's arraigned and they said that her lawyer said that look nothing she

said is important they have nothing to incriminate her they said she said very little quote mostly it's a lot of rhetoric on the part of the police officers and that all she said was that she didn't kill the kids So why are you holding her on this heavy hardcore bond? so she's originally the bond is set at a hundred thousand dollars and then they reduce it to fifty thousand dollars for Sue Anne and Fucking Ed pays for her bond and get her out of fucking jail Okay, do that Ed is Ed I don't know what's going on in Ed's brain, but Ed's brain has got to be like fireworks and Saw it's wild because Ed then this is fucking crazy. He gets her out of jail, then he divorces her.

Okay? But before they try her, he remarries her. What is happening? He divorces and remarries her in the time between the arrest and the trial. Oh boy. And she's out of prison to be divorced and remarried the whole time. She's out of jail. Hey, how do you justify it but like what's happening it's fucking insane I

know less about what's happening than that evidently no shit then this is fucking crazy two months after she's arrested they've dropped the fucking charges against her say again they dropped the charges against her. Say again? They dropped the charges against her then on June 22nd 1981 he he they refiled the charges against him against her. Okay. When she was originally arrested the first time Ed wanted nothing to do with her. He said oh my god she killed my kid. He asked the court officials to have her kept away from the family home if she gets bail Then he bailed her out Then he divorced her then they dropped charges and he remanded then they remarried her and then they reinstate the charges

So I guess he remarried her. Yeah when they dropped the charges. He said, oh, I guess I my bad I guess I jumped too soon acted too fast. Yeah. And then they re-file the charges, but they're already married again. He remarried her, he said, after he said he divorced her and he thought it was a mistake. By the way, it was like three days after their divorce went through, they got remarried. So right when it finally came through,

they went right down and got remarried. And he said he remarried her after realizing that she was completely and totally innocent. He said, he said, he said if there was any question in his mind that she wasn't innocent, he would have killed her himself. He said, I had killed her if I thought she killed my kid. I thought that's where this was going. I thought he's going to open this woman in the living room. Where are we going? To dig for worms, sweetheart, that's where. Dig for worms. Dig your grave, I mean worms.

I mean for worms. We need a lot of worms, we're going fishing. He said, oh yes, if she wasn't totally innocent, I would have killed her and we wouldn't be here today talking about it. This is by the way while he's sitting at the kitchen table with her. He says this to a reporter.

He said he initially refused to allow her to return home because he was confused. He said, I knew in my depression over the loss of my son that I could not at that time make any kind of fair judgment on her. And then he pats her on the hand and said she could have walked away. She could have walked in that door totally as innocent as she is and I would have killed her. I don't know if I would have, but I could have. This is while he's patting her nicely on the hand. She'd have walked in, I'd have blew her brains out the back of her fucking head. I don't know. Just would have been good. He said, he said my son came

first to me and everyone knows that including Sue Ann which is another reason why she didn't like Chris. Right. Because he came first. There's the reason right there. Yep. No one hurt my son that didn't get hurt back. I loved him and I miss him very, very much. So now stories start to come out from relatives and neighbors saying Chris wasn't allowed to eat at the dinner table because Sue Ann didn't want to look at him. And they said he was forced to eat alone either before or after the family had eaten their meal. Ed says, of course he ate with us. Had my son not been allowed to sit down at the table with me, there

wouldn't have been a damn table to sit down to. I'd have taken this house apart and put it back together again. Everything's anger with that. Over the top. He said that it's crazy that he said I just don't understand it. I didn't know there'd be there was anything wrong. They had ups and downs, him and Sue Ann, but I didn't see anything abnormal. He goes, so, you know, why would I think that? He said that the kids, Jimmy Jr. and Chris,

had a couple of spats, but nothing I saw is unusual. He said, maybe I was blind. I think so, I think you're at work a lot, is what it is. And that's, you know, you don't have time to see all this shit, which just happens. He said that you know Jimmy jr. Stayed there for about eight months He left two months ago and moved to lenexa and the parting was amicable, and I didn't think there was anything wrong He said that Chris was a happy boy. He wasn't a problem child

yeah, and His Sunday school teacher said he was a very loving, happy, outgoing child. You immediately liked him because he was bubbly, talking about Chris. So it doesn't sound like the type of kid who would completely ruin the harmony of a household. No, he's not. Yeah. So Jimmy goes to trial first. Jimmy's going to go to trial on this, which I don't know what he's going to trial for

because he already admitted that he fucking did this. Is he claiming not guilty in that charge what's he well to say they're doing they got psychiatrist testifying here now a psychiatrist testified first that Jimmy knew what was wrong to kill his stepbrother committed the killing out of fear and love for his mother who he thought was the most powerful person in the world had a you know a disproportionate you know atwhack view of his mom, which kids do. Sure.

That happens. One doctor told the jury that Jimmy Crum knew the killing was wrong, but didn't have the mental capacity to fully appreciate the consequences of how wrong it was. Jimmy admitted he killed him, but told police that he did it for his mom. And they said, yeah, that's why he did it,

is what these doctors are gonna say Make him dig his own grave though is a little much Now Jim Jimmie Crum seniors even gonna testify here really Yes The defense testimony they paint a picture of Jimmie Crum as a lost child who grew up wanting to please a mother who abandoned him when he was eight years old. It's a pretty good picture. Didn't see him for more than eight years. She attempted to re-establish a relationship with him in 1978, asked him to move into her home in Overland Park and she had the other kids there and all that kind

of thing. So for almost, he lived there for a while and they say no one knows why he left the home, but things seem to be developing. They said, the doctor said that Jimmy Jr. loved his mother, but was terrified of his mother's omnipotent, or omnipotent power. So she's omnipotent this broad. He saw her as a wealthy and powerful person

who could effectively use other people without any repercussions. Really? When you're a kid, you see adults as knowing what they're doing, even though they don't. But when you're a kid, you go, well, they must know what they're doing. They have like a car and shit.

I don't know that. She's got $350. She's, yeah, she could just whip that out at any time. And another psychiatrist that did some testing on Jimmy at a clinic here said that his mother was paranoid and kept him constant and repeated pressure on him to kill Chris. They said that he was told,

this psychiatrist was told by Jimmy Crum Jr. that he had attempted to kill the kid before and told Jimmy Jr. this kid's spreading rumors about me, spreading rumors about your sister. One time she tried to put cocaine on a stick of gum to kill him. I don't think that's going to do it. This is the opposite of the Quaaludes. He's just making him so cool.

Yeah, you're just making him learn how to party. This is wild. So when asked if Crum was insane, the refused to say he said I cannot answer that question That's for the jury to decide He said that James knew in an intellectual way the killing was against society But it's plausible that he didn't appreciate the wrongfulness of his act in the same way a person with better sense of who he was What if he didn't have the apparatus to fully appreciate the wrongfulness of his behavior? They bring in Jimmy jr. Jimmy senior who he was would have. He didn't have the apparatus to fully appreciate the wrongfulness of his behavior.

They bring in Jimmy Jr., Jimmy Sr. He's been going to the trial. He said that his divorce led to drinking problems and intermittent contact with his son as well. I don't know where the hell the kid was. He's crying saying he hadn't treated his son very well. He said, no sir, I haven't been a very good father. Virtually, in a sense, I dumped him. So he's been just shit on by both his parents.

He was openly weeping on the stand. He hugged his father as he left the courtroom, Jimmy Jr. did, so I guess he felt bad. His dad was crying. Even though his dad's treated him like shit, he's got this weird thing he wants to make his parents happy. So his lawyer now, Crum's lawyer said here that Jimmy was invited to live with them and

the reason why he was, the only reason why he was invited into the house is because Sue Ann was already plotting to kill Chris and had decided that Jimmy was the one who was going to do it. That's the defense that Jimmy never had a chance because from the minute he was told, oh, now I love you again, come live at my house, it was only to- Yeah, I put a roof over your head, now you murder for me.

Yep, but Ed said on the stand that, quote, that's all a bunch of crap. He said, we brought Jimmy into this house to try to give him a chance for life, something he never had. Anyone who's saying that doesn't have enough intelligence to know what's going on, I don't think anyone has enough guts to say that to my face, he says.

He's ready to fight in court, this guy. He fights everybody. He'll fight everybody, he's like Joe Pepitone's dad. So they present extensive psychiatric testimony dealing with his Jimmy Jr.'s history, his suggestibility, his alcoholism since a very young age his weird relationship with his parents and every other goddamn thing there three different psychiatrists testify for the defense and Express the opinion that he did not know the difference between right and wrong at the time of the killing

Two psychiatrists testify for the state and they all say that he was sane at the time knew the difference between right and wrong, understood the quality and nature of his acts and knew that the killing was wrong. Yeah, so they did that. Now they talk about all of this. They say will he testify? He was scheduled to testify on his own behalf, Jimmy Jr., but a private investigator who worked for the defense said that the decision was made in the middle of the week not to put him on the stand.

He said, one of the main reasons we didn't was because his mental condition was so fragile. The drawings showed his condition was deteriorating during the trial. They're talking about these, he's apparently constantly Jimmy Jr. scribbling pictures on a yellow legal pad here. They said those drawings were shown to Dr. Charles Welsh, a psychologist who said the drawings indicated personality disintegration right on the spot. Like you could see them over the days.

Really? Fall apart. He said the drawings were not shown to the public because of the concern for his mental state. And yeah, so in closing, okay, the prosecution urged the jury to remember that little Chris Hobson will never laugh or cry again. And he told the whole story. As he's telling the story, Jimmy Crum Jr. is just looking down at the floor crying,

which is a bad, not good in closing your trial. So he said, the prosecutor said, I've got to believe when the dust settled down around Chris's body and his pulse faded away, Jimmy Crum had no idea if he'd ever been caught. If it hadn't been for a quirk of fate, he never would have. It's true. It really was. This was out in the middle of nowhere. This was about to be flooded, about to be flooded forever.

Six men, six women on the jury, two hours it took for them to be flooded. About to be flooded forever. Six men, six women on the jury. Two hours it took for them to come back. And they bring in a verdict of guilty for Jimmy Crum Jr. And at that point, he maintained his composure until he was taken back to the jail area where he became emotionally upset and started crying and screaming. Fucking freaked out out lost his shit

I'm about to stay in here forever Forever and they said that as people filed out James Crumb senior could be seen standing in front of the jail openly crying as well we can So the sentencing comes around and if they didn't do it so bad if they were just like he was walking the other way So I just shot him in the back of the head so he wouldn't see it coming They made him dig his own grave fucked up mom didn't say make him dig his own grave like that's extra I think that's you're lazy too So he's but I do feel terrible because he just wants his mom to love him anyway you young man

May fuck off 15 years to life for him. Okay, yeah so they're gonna give him 15 to life. He's gonna do 15 and they're gonna try him up for parole and there's no fucking way he's getting out the first time. We'll talk about it. Oh my god. So the reactions, the jury form in Darrell Williamson said that all the jurors felt sympathy for Jimmy Jr. They all felt the same as I do. They said he's a said they know he was used by this woman is what they said. He said quote, most of the people felt sorry for the boy being an instrument of his mother. I imagine most of the people would rather have seen his mother on trial, meaning the jurors. He said the verdict took two ballots because there was a question of sympathy for Jimmy. They went around someone said not guilty and they had to go look, I know we feel bad

but the law says this is this and that. So another juror said he, they agreed with Williamson saying he had no doubt that Crum was killed into, coaxed into the killing by his mother. He said it's a shame to say but I don't think he would have done it if she hadn't told him to. I guarantee you he wouldn't have done it. Well no. Yeah.

His mother was the ringleader of it all if she's not charged somebody is wacky and Yeah, they said that They the prosecutor said that he was pleased with the conviction But then they said are you gonna charge Sue Ann because this is when her charges were dropped in that time He declined to comment Wow, that is fucking wild. He said I cannot comment on charges being filed. That's not my decision. I you know, upstairs says I can't talk about it like that. They said it was he was the county attorney or crumbs attorney said he was shocked by the short only two

hours taken by the jury. He said I was surprised they came back that fast. I don't see how they could have given fair consideration to all the facts. But he also criticized the insanity law calling it a simplistic rule. He said it's a rule that should have been trashed out a hundred years ago. So yeah, he said that the defense was wasn't a choice. Jimmy's a very, very sick man with severe emotional problems. And you know, this is crazy. So Sorrentino now, they offer him a deal. Really? Yeah, because I think they just think they got a good enough case no they don't know so they give him a deal to plead guilty to

aiding and abetting first-degree murder even though they're pretty sure he's hired one shot and he will he gets the same thing you young man may fuck off 15 to life which he'll be eligible for parole after serving six and a half years. Holy shit Yes, six and a half years. He's given a life sentence for pleading guilty, but they said that Yeah, he's they say at first he's not eligible for parole for 15 years But then they find out that he is eligible in six and a half years based on the sentencing at the time find out that he is eligible in six and a half years based on the sentencing at the time. So yeah, he entered that plea. And he also Jimmy, by the way, agrees to testify against his mother to a trial. Oh, yep. And then so does Paul. So that's how that goes.

So they're saying that the deal that Ed's really pissed off. Ed said it's bullshit that they made a deal with Sorrentino in exchange for his testimony against my wife. He said this is about politics is what this is. The DA is Dennis Moore and he says here's where Dennis Moore is coming from. He says let me do it this way. I'll charge her and we'll let the court decide. I don't believe it's revenge of any kind.

I think it's strictly that he's wanting to run for attorney general and he wants to save face. Yeah, he said he's opened his mouth and stuck his foot in it by filing charges against Suanne. He knows she's not guilty, but he won't admit it. He won't admit to making a mistake. He'd be a much bigger man to say, hey, I made a big mistake. I was just trying to do my job. Ed doesn't trust a soul on this planet and it may stem from his daughter being raped at a very young age by a family

member Fucking thing they defiled his daughter the night before the funeral everybody's out to get out in his mind So and also commit suicide. No, that's the other thing someone killed her He also mistakenly believes that Sorrentino will be out of jail in 120 days somehow. He says about the prosecutor, he flat out lied to me. He made a deal with the person who cold-bloodedly killed my son and that lets him get back on the street in 120 days and kill somebody else and I don't buy that in any way, shape or form. But they say, the prosecutor said it will not be 120 days. In fact, it'll be a number of years before he ever sees a parole board, is what the prosecutor said, which is a fact.

So he then says, Ed says, last year, district attorney Dennis Moore promised me justice. He said we were going to go for first degree murder on both of them, and he wouldn't stop until they got it. Dennis Moore said he wasn't going to plea bargain, but he has. So after that, Sue Ann's trial, talk about that a little bit here, they are going to, these different attorneys

are going to team up to prosecute her. Moore and another county's attorney are going to team up here. It's like Johnson, Miami County is working together here. He said, Steve and I will be working together here on this case of the stepmother, and our next step is the preliminary Hearing and so they're gonna do that. She's currently free by the way on bond still unreal ed

Is adamantly defending his wife's innocence and wore wore a t-shirt to the courthouse that said they promised me justice I promise them revenge. Oh my god. He's making a threat He's making threats in t-shirt form in public fucking Wow He went and had his had his threats screen printed and wore them to the court That's amazing. Oh board. Holy shit. He said that Sue and did not kill his son He says anyone who hurts his family will be hurt in return and I'm not hurting her which means she didn't do it. They say the newspaper says quote, when talking with Hobson he comes across as a sincere quiet man, a man with an intense inner conflict, a man confused by what life has offered him. That's a good way to put it, confused by what life has offered him. He said I've had a lot of sleepless nights but I just take it one

day at a time. No I don't think I'm cursed No one is cursed. They actually asked him. Do you think you're cursed? All this tragic in your life Ed. Oh He said that he's gonna stand beside his wife and every day of this trial He said she's being framed by two drug-dealing punks Wow, yep crowds lined up for hours in advance. It was like the OJ trial. Like hilarious. The reporters were like, hey Ed, all these things happened.

Maybe it's you. Are you cursed? Yeah. What do you think, Ed? You cursed or what? Did you like piss off a lady with a big wart and a weird nose in your past, had like a cauldron going, she was putting like eye of newt in? Did you tell her to fuck herself or something back in the day?

Maybe it's you, man. That's a fucked up thing to say to a man in a courthouse. That is like that. Who's everyone's debtor in jail and his whole family. So yeah, all sorts of people come to this trial. There were a lot of doubt surrounding the courtroom ability of district attorney Dennis Moore. They said that it was a suburban town and he has a trial on of complicated murder trials here. So another witness here that comes up, this is Margie Hunt here, the one that went out drinking with Sue Ann. And they said, and you know anything about her wanting to get rid of her son?

And she said, quote, she hated him and wished that he was gone. She wanted him out. She said she wasn't mentally, she said he wasn't mentally right and for his own good he needed to be put in an institution. And she also said that, wow, holy, by the way, through all of this, Sue Ann is just glaring death rays through this woman. Death rays. She testified that Sue Ann once asked her, quote, if I knew anyone in the mafia and asked if I ever heard the name Sorrentino mentioned in connection with the mafia. Ever hear like a sorry you watch documentaries ever seen like a Sorrentino mix up in there

or anything? Last time you watched it. I got a question for you. So this lady had moved away to Connecticut and works as a bartender now here and she moved away. She said she's been friendsender now here. And she moved away. She said she's been friends with Sue Ann for several years and saw her several times a week. And after she married Ed, their conversations often centered on the problems that Chris

was causing in the relationship. She said that he was a problem. She said he would act like a three year old and embarrass her. And so she refused to be seen in public with him. Oh, God. Lord, that's awful. The jury seven men, five five women on this one by the way, so pretty even The day after he was reported missing they talk about the going out to drink and she said she was in a good mood She said Chris was gone within an hour. She was at my place saying let's go out and celebrate

Twice that day they went out and had drinks and twice suan toasted Chris's disappearance. She toasted it She got hammered twice in one day to Chris go and miss him. That's how much she's partying Holy shit, she on vacation and the fucking Bahamas like that's what people do when they go to an island for vacation They get up get hammered take a nap wake up eat some food and get hammered again They have toasting everything. Yeah, it a nap, wake up, eat some food and get hammered again. They have toasting everything. Yeah, it's all inclusive. Let's drink some more. Holy shit. Now, they tried to get it so this woman wouldn't be able to testify because they said a warrant had been issued for Margie's arrest and a civil judgment was entered by

a judge because she had taken more than $40,000 worth of jewelry from a client of theirs. So the court records show that a judge entered a default judgment against her last December when she failed to answer a claim that she had Sue Ann Hobson's jewelry. She's saying that, I guess Sue Ann said I gave her my jewelry when I went to jail to hold and she just took it and took off. And she sold it. Yeah. So they're saying this bitch killed a kid. She's never getting out.

I'm selling this ever. Well, they're saying she's lying so she can keep this jewelry and not have anything, you know, put out there. So that's how it goes. Whatever. So anyway, twice during the testimony, Sue Ann slammed her hand down on the table and said bullshit under her breath very loudly Loudly a bullshit fucking bitch. That's she can't control it. Even OJ didn't do that. Like you gotta chill the fuck out Another witness a teacher came in and said that Sueann had told her that Kristen was Chris was causing difficulties in the family

Jimmy testifies against his mom. Yep, and said he had nothing to do with moving the wallet from the bedroom to the shopping center. He said, my mother told me that she did that. And they get his probation officer in there as well. And she said that she discussed the credit card problem with Jimmy Crum and Sue Ann Hopps in a few days before Chris was killed. She said Sue Ann talked with her about her family. She said we discussed the tense situation in the home and she said that she was saying she wanted to leave the marriage but

couldn't afford to because of financial reasons. She was talking about leaving Ed. Oh my god. Then there's a delay in the trial because She it has to be delayed while she's hospitalized for a drug overdose. How'd she took she got drugs in the joint? She's at home. She's out on bail. Oh, yeah Yeah, so she got access to all her quail utes access to all her drugs and so the judge throws her in jail for the rest of the trial because Can't be having you killing yourself in the party after trial. Yeah So they said jimmy in court looked like he was resigned and defeated. He spoke quietly

They said um, he was the only one that didn't appear to parse every word He's testified about the bizarre relationship with his mom about her coming over about the bizarre relationship with his mom, about her coming over. They asked if he liked Chris or hated Chris and he said it would be more than dislike, he said. He didn't like Chris at all. And he said that she just kept pressuring me. She was always in a hurry to see if something could be done

and then she came over to my apartment and said she'd like to be rid of him before Christmas season so she wouldn't have to buy any presents. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that 350's gonna pay for itself when I don't have to pay for Christmas. It's free basically, it's a wash.

So he said that take him hunting and once you get out there, shoot him, get rid of the body. He said my mother was upset when I couldn't do it the first time and she said if I couldn't do it for her, she'd find someone who could and that's when he found Paul and all that kind of shit.

So wow, he said at first she was being vague about it but then she came right down and said she wanted him dead. So yeah, after all the attempts and she and then she told him that she was trying to kill him with drugs and that didn't work. So he was like, fuck, she's serious. So Suzanne, at this point, she totally said what her mother did and now she flipped it and won't fucking say shit at the court.

Yep, she attempted to change her story. So the district attorney approached the bench and asked to have her deemed a turncoat witness, a fucking hostile witness, like they did with Cato Kaelin. And then he could do whatever he wants questioning her He can abuse her you can you know get her to fucking say what she said before and he does he fucking rips her apart and Then she finally confirms the story that she does she couldn't keep it up under the cross-examination She she does it she testifies she's sobbing and

They said what they said they asked her if she had hired and conspired was it you that did it because the mother was saying maybe it was her and she said no no no no yeah by the way Suzanne Suanne's gonna testify and she says no no I loved that boy she's on the stand for two and a half hours she said her and Ed were having normal problems adjusting to the marriage, but there's no major problems involving Chris. She said Chris thought it was great, the marriage.

He called me mom even before I said yes to Ed. He was looking for a mom. Yeah, he was dying for a mom. His mom was fucking dead. Right, because his mom died horrifically. Yeah, she said I did say get rid of, but I meant send to military school or an institution. And she said when she found out about it, she said I did say get rid of but I meant sent to military school or an institution And she said when she found out about she said Jimmy said Chris was dead and that he didn't do it and he was crying

And he was scared and he said Paul had gone berserk and killed him. It was Paul. It was Paul It was always Paul. That's what she said on the stand He swore to me had nothing to do with it meeting Jimmy Jr. And that I had to help him And so she said I had been, meaning Jimmy Jr. and that I had to help him. And so she said, I had been told by Jimmy Jr. not to say anything and that Paul told him that if I said anything, Paul would just make it a package deal and get rid of us all. She said, all I wanted him to do is talk to Chris, just talk to Chris about spreading rumors about Suzanne, which I guess is the only thing that he did that was true, was he spread rumors about his sister.

Other than that, he didn't tell on anybody. He didn't do anything like that. What could the rumors have been? That's what I mean. She's 16. Who knows? Or 15. During closing arguments, the prosecutor said, Dennis Moore said that she is the prime mover

in the killing of Chris Hobson. She ordered, hired, and approved of the killing of Chris Hobson. The defense attorney said there's no evidence to implicate her at all. None. She said the only evidence is coming from Jimmy Crum Jr. who's a known and admitted liar. And a murderer. Yep. They painted very different pictures. The prosecutor said Sue Ann Hobson lied to you. Sue Ann Hobson may now appear to be remorseful, but there are two sides to Sue Ann Hopson and Chris knew her dark side all too well. Said you should find her guilty of all the charges against her and although she wasn't physically present,

the presence of Suzanne Hopson was very real at the gravesite. Sue Ann Hopson was the prime mover in this case. The state is not required to prove a motive, which is true. It's not one of the elements they need to prove. We don't need why but the motive is there It's probably the oldest motive in the world. She didn't like him. Oh, yeah There's didn't like him Yeah plain old didn't like him the defense said when Jimmy Crumb came into that house things went bad because Jimmy brought with him his drugs Jimmy brought with him his predisposition for thievery Jimmy didn't go to school Jimmy dropped out of school Jimmy drops out of school and he drops acid Jimmy does cocaine it's found in the house he says he's like on Seinfeld the guy Jimmy's jumping for dollars he's

that guy Jimmy's open he said that yeah they go all of that and the verdict comes in and I guess it's eight- trial. The verdict, the jury comes back after two hours and they want to listen to the tape statements by Suzanne, the daughter again. They then recess for the night and they come back again at 845 and four o'clock the next day they come back with a verdict. Oh boy. And it is guilty of murder for Suanne. As she left the courtroom she said, oh it's awful.

That was her response to it. Miss Kent. So this is from a newspaper while awaiting sentencing. Because she's still out on bond. She only had to go to jail for the one night. It was like a contempt thing. Quote, for three hours Friday night, Sue Ann Hobson sat in her kitchen,

sipping cranberry juice and smoking one Bel Air cigarette after another. Her husband, Ed Hobson, pulled at his pipe and drank black coffee from a cup she kept full. I've never seen a picture of him without a cigarette, by the way, there's like 20 pictures of him, always got a cigarette in his hand. He said, between puffs and sips,

they talked about the murder and everything like that. She said, it makes me look stupid that I do not have good answers for everything But people make an irrational situation into an everyday occurrence, but if they had been in my shoes They would have dolled they would have all done the right things Okay, but not murder a kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, probably. Yeah, just write it out till he graduates from high school I don't know this Ed said the reason my son got killed was because two kids were on drugs. He said that's the reason my wife had nothing to do with it. He said I've had to put myself or this is her again. I have to put myself on so many guilt trips the last two years and I'll be

damned if I will take all the responsibility for Jimmy's behavior. I will not. His father had him too. What? They are delusional. And Ed said Jimmy wasn't even that bad. Ed said Chris was finding out about sex. Jimmy was older and Chris would talk to Jimmy about things he couldn't talk to me about. Jimmy was a problem, but he was not a hassle every day. He said they didn't understand why this happened. They said, well, why didn't you tell anybody about this? Why didn't she tell you? And he said, well, why didn't you tell anybody about this?

Why didn't she tell you? And he said, fear, fear is a small word. She said, I was terrified. It's not fear, it's terrified. So, wow, this is very interesting. They just talked to her. She said this has ruined her daughter's life. And she said, I pray about that every night.

She feels like Jimmy betrayed us to get even with me for abandoning him lady. That's what that she's blaming everybody It's fucking fuck. It's intense man. And Ed said that I'm going to get Dennis Moore on Election Day That's not a good thing to say say that he said if I have to I'll run against him myself He's not stepping on us for his political gains So he's threatening to either kill him or run against him or him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him.

I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him.

I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him.

I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. I've never even reprimanded him. to have to I have enough faith in God and man what are they gonna give her fucking probation for this what the two of them they are yes men to each other and can't can't stop this is a loop it's called yeah yeah this loop of incorrect information that they just keep feeding off each other it's so gross she said she couldn't run away if she wanted to she said we have nothing now we have Ed salary and where can you go with seven cats? They would die. They have seven cats.

Why do you have seven cats? Sentencing comes around. She is, you, ma'am, may fuck off here. OK. She is sentenced to life in prison for the murder charge with the possibility of parole. There's no hard 50 like they have later on. And then five to 15 years in prison

for the conspiracy charge. So she gets that. Yeah, it's just, Ed is. Probably, yeah. Ed said, yeah, Ed said, I don't hate her, I still love her, I just don't understand what's happening. That's what Ed said afterwards. Here's the thing, Ed, she hated your kid

and she murdered him. That's what, what's so hard to understand, man. So she's in prison, Ed divorces her, and then two years later he remarries her while she's still in prison. Ed can't stop. Ed can't stop. They have three, they've been married three fucking times now. Three times. These two. Three times, two divorces. 85, she has an appeal here, and it's based on affidavits from prisoners

that talk about Paul. They said that Paul Sorrentino said that Sue Ann had nothing to do with the murder, but Paul Sorrentino, when they bring him in, he says he'd never met these three people before and doesn't fucking know them at all. So they go, well, throw that fucking appeal out. You're shit outta luck. 85, Ed pleads guilty to something. What? So they go well that throw that fucking appeal out your shit out of luck

85 ed pleads guilty to something what he pleads guilty to a charge of illegally using his dead son's social security benefits He's you know How he's accused he pleads guilty to falsely obtaining $7,000 39 and benefits his son would have received after his natural mother died in 1976 He faces a maximum prison sentence of ten years and a ten thousand dollar fine He could get ten years for that on bow for seven ten years Yep last summer the regional office of the US Department of Health and Human Services Human Services found that he was that Chris Was continuing to receive monthly payments ranging from $153 to $189

and the checks were being directly deposited into a bank account which was set up after the boy died. They found out it was controlled by Ed and his wife Sue Ann and payments were made to the account from September 80 to August 84. Oh boy. Wow. 89 Sue Ann's up for parole for the first time. That quick. They call it, people are mad. A lot of people are saying it's a bad law that she's allowed to do this. They fixed it since then. The prosecutor said we're opposed and they said one prosecutor said she hasn't served enough time for the contract killing of a stepchild. It doesn't get much worse than that.

That's true. Yeah. enough time for the contract killing of a stepchild, it doesn't get much worse than that. That's true, yeah. Denied. But she's up every three years. 92, up for parole. She repeatedly refuses to admit any involvement in the killings. That's not good, man.

You are doing a bad thing. Ed keeps going and pleading for her at all of her hearings. He said, we just want to have a chance to put our lives back together and we can't do it without your help. He, at one point, they talk talk about the victims family and he said I am the victims family It's just me his mom's dead. This is everybody else. Yeah, everybody else is dead What the fuck Ed said he mentioned the two books that were published. We'll talk about those. I'll mention them what they are and He says, you know books have been published published, all this shit, let her out. Everybody deserves a second chance.

They said, yeah, that's that. Everybody deserves it. They go, well, not this time. You're denied, fucker. Yeah. No. At one point they said, they talked about the prosecutor said he was sad and shocked that he and the other prosecutor were the only person to attend the hearing

on Chris's behalf. He said that kid was murdered by his own family. Who's here for him? Yeah. Nobody. Oh, by the way, Suzanne also speaks and saying that she does not want her mother freed. Yeah, because she was manipulated and looks like she made you look like a shitbag. Oh, yeah.

There's all sorts of op-eds too with people. Here's one of the teachers of Chris, one of Chris's old teachers wrote a fucking op-ed, saying Mary Alice Daniels, saying, simple justice, however, demands that the mastermind who plotted and arranged his death not be freed before the killers who merely carried out the sentence,

an expectation of payment never received 97 Sorrentino's up for parole. He's been passed over six times already. Oh And they deny him again in 97 make a seven. Yep, by the way, Jimmy crumb was passed over for parole earlier that year He is currently in a work release program as of 1998 for parole earlier that year. He is currently in a work release program as of 1998. 1998 suan up for her sixth parole. The prosecutor said she needs to admit what she's done. If she does that, we won't oppose her release. All she has to say is I did it and we'll say you should let her out now and let her out now. She won't fucking do it. No, no. And Ed keeps supporting her. Ed said, Ed's, yeah, Ed said,

one lawyer said, I told him the best thing to do was wait and see if we could get her out on parole. I just feel sorry for Ed. He's a really nice guy. Denied again. January 4th, 1999, Jimmy is paroled. Jimmy Jr.'s paroled. He ends up moving to Texas and becomes an electrician

and does just fine for himself. Really? Yep. As long as he's away from mom. Yep, April 21st, 2000 Paul's paroled as well. Oh boy. Don't know what he did, but he went off somewhere. Wow, so he then I guess everybody calls him fucking spineless by the way. There's like a people who hate Ed that call him Ed spineless Hobson all over the place. by the way, there's like people who hate Ed that call him Ed Spineless Hobson all over the place.

He joined the Kansas City chapter of Parents of Murdered Children, a support group, where we normally would do things like try to block her from getting released from jail, though. His active participation led to the position of co-leader of the group, which he now got dropped out of it because he said he still loved his wife and wants her to get out of jail. So they didn't like that anymore.

We can't have you, man. You make us look bad. Can't do it. So she's denied again in 2000. 2003, she's up for parole. And yeah, she, they said all you have to do is say you fucking did it. It's a seriousness of it. It's a serious crime. She's denied again.

2006, she's up for parole. By the way, since 2004, she's been disciplined four times. Once for work performance, once for unauthorized dealing or trade, and two were for violating published orders on rules inside the facility, so who knows? But they said they would use that also to see if she gets parole and not so fast, denied again for the eighth time.

February 25th, 2011, ninth parole hearing here. 84-year-old Ruth Brettel told Kansas Parole Board that she's opposed to having Suanne living in her neighborhood. Now the neighbors are against her. Oh, if you let her out, she has to be in a house somewhere. Yeah, she said, the crime which confined Sue Ann Hopps into prison was premeditated and swiftly completed taking a very young boy's life at 13 years of age.

I feel we have a very respectable, law-abiding neighborhood, and who knows what she's thinking at this moment in time. She may want to rebel and take her rebellion out on whomever she can. I don't want her near my house. An 84 year old neighbor, probably the last person she's going to kill, I would think. So finally, it is approved on her night parole. 2011. She's released and moves right in with Ed in her parents' family house. Oh boy. I think they're gone. Yeah. And they said at the time of her release, several residents voiced much disapproval.

They were upset. They were also upset that they were moving into this home. Here is a comment on an article online about her release. It's from a user here that says, I have a couple of freaky facts. We live in Prairie Village and Sue Ann and Ed Hopps and live less than a block away from us. She came to my house a few years ago, this is from 2020 by the way,

knocked on the door and wanted to chat. I honestly don't remember about what, I just thought she was a random weirdo. Then she said she had grown up on my street. I had no idea who she was and I never heard the story. My husband saw her driving off as he came around to the front of the house and recognized her.

Of course, he was shocked she was out of jail even. We looked her up and sure enough, she lives in the house she pointed out to me. She talked a lot and was very gossipy. Also my husband went to middle school with Suzanne Hobson, the daughter. A while back, one of his old classmates ran into Suzanne at the grocery store. He said it was clear that she did not want to chat. My husband said that back then she was in school and then suddenly she was gone and never returned and then later everyone found out why.

She says, I knew this lady at my door was nuts, but I could not have imagined how evil she really is. I'd know her anywhere. She doesn't look as old as she is, but she's about but has a very unattractive Personality and is an idiot to live with her. I would say I would say they have visitors quite frequently so Now there's also two books out there, but there are none of them are there's no ebook There's no audiobook one is called crazy maker from 1992 crazy maker True Story of Murder and Betrayal in an American

Family and that is by Thomas O'Donnell. That you can get a hardcover for $5.99 on Amazon or a mass market paperback for $7.15 and then the other one's called Family Affairs and that is by Andy Hoffman and it says, was she the perfect wife and mom or a cold-blooded murderer? I would not say a perfect mother. Not even close, what are you talking about? That's also 675 in paperback, it's from 92, it's old as shit.

There you go, that everybody is Edgerton. Oh, she's out, she's out there. And she looks great, did you hear that? Oh yeah, yeah, no, you'll see her too. She looks great, that's fucked up. She does not look her age at fucking all not even close to her fucking age when you see her like last mugshots She looks 20 years younger than she is. And in 2020, Ed, who was sucking down butts all day long for 40 years, he's crushing it Fucking my hats off to Ed there. Good for you, Ed. You're doing it. Wow. There you go. That is Edgerton

Like we said, it's more Overland Park Hats off to Ed there. Good for you, Ed. You're doing it. Wow. There you go. That is Edgerton. Like we said, it's more Overland Park, but the fact that they wouldn't have killed him in the neighborhood. So I thought it was interesting that this is like a dumping ground. We brought him out here to this place to kill. You live in a nice little neighborhood. It's a lovely place.

You're a nice and rural, thousand-something people here, and then they're fucking murdering children here. They're building a lake here, for Christ's sake. Yeah, this is supposed to be great. So anyway, there it is. If you like the show, please tell everyone you know. And also get on whatever app you're on and give us a review. It doesn't matter what you say about us at all.

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a whole big back catalog full of stuff you've never heard hundreds of episodes new ones every other week this week is no different this week we're gonna do for crime and sports we're gonna do theme park disasters holy shit shit. Who doesn't wanna hear that? Then for small town murder, we have some fun stuff. We're gonna talk about the craziest execution methods in history. Wild shit, anybody get in there, do that, and you get a shout out here in a second as well.

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Happy birthday. No, anniversary. Happy birthday. Congratulations, you sons of everything. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Jordan, Gary, all those people, we appreciate you. Other producers this week are Corporal Karl Kirschner. He's back. It's been so long. He's in the hole.

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Witch Hunt, Debbie Christensen, Rebecca, you know. Yeah. Rebecca As. Gotta have one of those. Mariah Gregory, Rachel Sanders, Tammy Clemente, Holly Haught, Stephanie Stansel, Polly DeLuca, DeLucia, Lauren with no last name, Bernie with no last name, Laura with no last name, My Blue Dolly,

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