Spinning Plates with Sophie Ellis-Bextor - Episode 17: Holly Tucker

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

This week I meet 'Hurricane Holly'. Real name Holly Tucker, she is the small businesses guru who founded Not on the High Street . She has helped many creative people start to sell from their homes and reach a wider audience. Holly has one son and many 'business babies'. And if you want to hear her recipe for following your dream, she shares it near the end of our chat!  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Hello, I'm Sophia Lispector and welcome to Spinning Plates, the podcast where I speak to busy working women who also happen to be mothers about how they make it work. I'm a singer and I've released seven albums in between having my five sons aged 16 months to 16 years, so I spin a few plates myself. Being a mother can be the most amazing thing, but can also be hard to find time for yourself and your own ambitions. I want to be a bit nosy and see how other people balance everything. Welcome to Spinning Plates. Hello my darlings, how are you? How are you finding everything at the moment? Trying to

think what's been going on around here. So more of the same from last week really, still been doing promotion for the album. I've done a couple of TV performances, which is quite fun. It's been nice to be back in the studio, and I even got to see my band yesterday. We did a performance for a TV thing that's going to go out in America, and it was quite funny. They'd made a set where they had a little Big Ben, and it was sort of like, it's London, guys, kind of stuff for the Americans. And we did a performance at the Discotheque where all my band

wore animal masks uh the same ones that Richard and I used for the kitchen discos we did here with the kids so I don't know Kieran on keys was a horse we had my brother playing drums Jack was a pigeon Richard was a shark Pablo was a poodle on guitar but what's quite weird is when I got home uh I was showing my kids the original video music video for crying at the discotheque by Alcazar and guess what they're wearing in the video they're wearing animal masks including the same horse head mask the weirdest thing of all is that I hadn't seen the whole video and the reason I had the animal masks was because I bought them when I was recording my album Familia and that's why they're

in the house it was nothing to do with crying at the discotheque or anything I just thought what a weird coincidence so it seems that the animal mask was sort of destined to be a part of my life and I have to say there's something very pleasing about turning around to face your husband on base and there he is with a shark's face instead. I recommend it for making you laugh a little bit while you're doing some work. So try it. Try it, guys. Try it from home.

Try putting on animal masks. Actually, don't. The visibility is terrible. Anywho, this week's guest is, oh, she's a bit of a force of nature, actually, Holly Tucker. We met for the first time for the podcast, but I'd been in touch with her on email before.

I ended up doing a little job for her company not on the high street.com which is something she founded about 10 years ago when the internet was in its infancy and I was really struck by the company's ethos I'm a big fan of small businesses and I try and support them where I can and I'm sure you've done the same when you buy something from a small company you just get the story behind the company you feel like you've really had a direct contact with them and there's a sort of honesty about the transaction and you also appreciate the work that's gone in from their side of things and the fact that you've got something pretty bespoke your end of things too there's loads of small businesses that I support um and it's it's joyful and also as a consumer makes you feel a little bit clever when you buy something from a small business rather than a big one so i recommend it for christmas

if any of you are still stuck for things to do have a look on the small businesses you can look on loads of places not on the high street is obviously a big place for it but there's also places like etsy and ebay and instagram has been great for that so just have a hunt around and i've put on my Instagram a couple of times businesses that I recommend. So you can find them if you look on my Instagram too. But yeah, Holly was wonderful. It's really inspiring, really knows her stuff,

really passionate. She is mother to one son who's now a teenager. He's 16, but she's just got married. She's in a really happy place. And she's called Hurricane Holly. That's her nickname has been since she was small and when you listen to it you'll understand why you've got bucket loads of energy and also our chat came in at a very efficient 51 minutes which uh it's one of the

quickest ones I've done which is probably quite a relief for those of you that like to listen to the podcast while you're doing journeys and stuff or I don't know making something to eat or whatever um sorry if sometimes I waffle on a bit but I do get very curious when I'm chatting with while you're doing journeys and stuff or, I don't know, making something to eat or whatever. Sorry if sometimes I waffle on a bit, but I do get very curious when I'm chatting to people. Anyway, here's Holly, here's me. Go and get yourself a cup of tea, settle in. I think you'll find this one really inspiring. And it's a perfect lead-in to having to find presents for people.

The most wonderful time of the year and all that. See you on the other side. Well, actually, I was really looking forward to speaking today because I thought I really needed to hear some positivity. I had a bit of a gloomy weekend, really, because on Friday I was filming a new video for my new song, and the song is called Crying at the Discotheque, and I thought, oh, wouldn't it be a really good thing if I film in loads of venues across London

and show how sad it is these places are all empty? That's a good idea. Well, I think it's going to look really good, but my friend, another Sophie, Sophie Muller, she was was directing and so we started the day this tiny venue place that only had I think capacities about 80 we went through seven venues in the day and ended up at the O2 which capacity like 13,000 the thing I didn't really appreciate was that I was actually going to make me feel quite sad singing to all these empty venues and then on Saturday I did a gig and it was my sound man's first gig in six months.

And that made me feel quite sad too. It made me realise what I was missing. But then I do think the flip, on Sunday I was online and there was a little sort of market, an online market with lots of creatives and small businesses. And I thought, I was thinking actually for your company, for Not The High Street, that this must have been an amazing year because the emphasis on the small business has been shifted, I think. People are maybe thinking a bit more about that.

Yeah, absolutely. It's been, you know, it's been amazing. I mean, I must say that when it all happened, I woke up, thought about my family. And the next thing I thought about was the small businesses and I felt you know it's been such a journey um to raise profiles of these small businesses to build not in the high street to build Holly and Co and then this happened and I just thought is everything just going to come crashing down and um and then it started turning around and actually it's been phenomenal for these small businesses.

I'm not saying all small businesses. I'm just specifically talking about the ones that I know. Sometimes they've been saying it's Christmas every day, you know, during that peak of lockdown. Because I think we had more time as customers to think about what we were doing, where we were spending our money. You know, it wasn't the frantic commuting, school runs. I don't know that there was just this shift and people wanted to be thoughtful. You know, I know I did. You know, I bought about a thousand cards. I bought 300 stamps. And the other day I went through my 300th stamp and I and I realized I'd been

really sending out a lot and I think that's what everyone had and so you've seen this sort of rise with small businesses especially if they were posting through the letterbox and you know um picked up the nation's mood and so it's been really heartwarming to hear these stories but I can imagine for you going around those venues it is you know when I've gone out on the high street it is a really hard thing to observe it is quite quite bleak but but one thing I have noticed is that the interactions I've had with people um I mean specifically this year it's almost like a lot of the kind of barriers of the kind of barriers of the way you normally interact with people sort of roles you play have really been broken down so i

know like during lockdown i had a problem with my banking app so i went to the bank to go and get it fixed and the guy i was speaking to we ended up talking about how he's found working how he's found you know his kids are being homeschooled all this sort of you know family story behind it and i think the thing about the small businesses that you've always championed, that it is about the stories behind the business. It's not just about, you know, oh, someone makes these homemade candles. It's about how they came to do that, how they make it work. And I think, I feel like overall people are just more interested in things

that have got a bit of that backstory. They kind of want to know what's going on behind the scenes. I couldn't agree more. I think it's's we've suddenly become a little bit more interested and maybe conscious and um are looking to interact with brands people with depth you know and it's actually everything that I've always wanted to see um thank goodness it's all happening I I mean, there was a part of society that was always doing that. But I just think that whatever shifts that we've seen, it's been, and I do think it's been allowing time or the fact that you really wanted to send care and love to someone.

You know, we've never been through anything like that. That now people have sort of dipped their toe in and they've seen that this is a colourful group of people family businesses you know midnight makers packing all through the night baking the brownies in the home kitchen packing it all up sending it out and then the amazingness of social media is you can see that interaction you can see what's happening and you can feel it and I think again also on the high street those independents you know you must have had the same amazing small businesses staying open through this period of time and you suddenly started talking to them

and actually finding out about as you said their family and now what I see is that those customers that people gained through that time they're sticking with the small businesses and that's why potentially we're going to see the bigger businesses sort of dinosaurs of the world those that were a bit vacuous a bit soulless really struggle and I don't think that's a bad thing no I completely agree with you and I mean I was thinking for this Christmas I want to make sure that I try and shop small as much as I can and really support all of those people who've got those homegrown businesses and then you know when you pass over that gift you can say oh that came from this girl you should follow her on Instagram she's brilliant yeah that guy

does these amazing things and yes he also does this and I like think people like that sort of quirk it's really fun and I know that you know if I've got friends that have set up their own companies when people do buy especially those initial customers they get it means so much to them um I went to speak not that long ago to Yvonne Telford who set up a clothing company called Kemi Telford she's like every time someone buys from me you know I can sort of count each one and you know and it becomes like this sort of family like a community yeah I think it's really special so if you can be part of that that's a nice thing to feel like you're part of isn't it it means everything you know I think back to starting up not in high street it was back in 2006 right before smartphones before I mean literally just coming out of the dial-up internet I was gonna say so it is it was a long time ago but um not

that long time ago but like I feel very like very like granny-like when I talk about it, you know. And it's always been an online. Always been online, absolutely. And we had to used to say.com because people didn't understand. Like the small businesses would ask me, do I need a computer and printer to join your internet company? And I'd say, this is going to help actually.

But you know, I remember those first orders coming through to these small businesses and I always remember one of them got a um a article we got an amazing picture in the independent magazine I think it was and I called her up and when I started not on the high street Harry was three months old so you know there he is and he's tiny and he's in his little dressing gown I'm in my dressing gown he's not slept all night. He's in a tiny dressing gown at three months. That's adorable. Yeah, so yeah, I only had one.

So, you know, this is a thing. That's really cute. And also I had not in the high street. So it was a bit of a hard thing to not be shopping all the time. And I called up this small business and she said, what's happening, Holly? Is there a bug on my site?

And I said, no, honey, this is what's happening. People are doing it and she just cried and she said we're drinking champagne it's nine o'clock in the morning my kiln because it was she was going to fire all these milk jugs it's going to burst but it was I'll never forget that story and for like 15 years I've now that is sort of my my fuel when I hear the happiness for because it's real life you're really making a difference you're voting with your money to change people's lives and you get to have great stuff for it you know it's it's a win-win situation so what what what

was happening in your life that made starting the business when Harry was only three months old um well basically I had been a girl in the hurry all my life called Hurricane Holly um and I really had so from you know wanting to work etc etc I started my first job I got my first job the day that I got my A-level results um so and I went into advertising I celebrated my 18th birthday as a fully fledged junior, junior, junior tea maker, basically, in London. But that was sort of the story of me. I was always in a hurry. And I found myself getting married very young. So I got married at 21 to my childhood sweetheart and, you know, various things. I had a brain tumour, all these sort of things.

And I sort of did quite a few lives, I would say, before I was about 23. I got divorced at 23. And I decided to go back to creativity as a sort of, I suppose, healing aspect for myself and started making vegetable wreaths. And I always say I want this story to be sexier, but I started making vegetable wreaths and wanted to sell them, just here locally, actually. And I thought, well, that's fine I'll set up I'll I'll sell it at the Chiswick Christmas Fair and then I realized there was no such thing as a Chiswick Christmas Fair so I set up the first Chiswick Christmas Fair so that I could get the best trestle table to sell my wreaths and so this was all in my early 20s. It was very therapeutic. I realised that I love building businesses. The fairs did it for two years, nearly killed me. But really what I realised

was what I had discovered in these small businesses in the Chiswick Town Hall was it was electric when amazing customers could find what they were looking for. And then basically, I swapped the town hall roof for an internet, the internet, and collated all these small businesses along with my business partner, Sophie. And at the meantime, I had found my life partner, who I actually got married to four weeks ago in lockdown. And my son's, you know, nearly 16 years old. So he's the same age as not in the high street so whenever I look at my son I always forgive the business because actually it's only been going this long and so when I realized that there was a plight for small businesses to get

online but done in a way that was beautiful curated with taste with style um we built not on the high street and I just happened to have at that point a three because I was in a horror you know I'd always wanted to be a mum so the hurricane holly has never sort of left me I mean I'm 43 now it's slightly tireder but um but yeah so he happened to be three months old. And would I do that? Potentially not. It was pretty difficult, I would say. Missing his first words, missing his first, you know, walk. But I call my businesses my children as well. They're my business children.

So I had Harry, who's my son. I have Nottingham High Street and I have Holly & Co. And these are, you know, three things, three babies that I've nurtured. And I think that's one of the things I love about female entrepreneurship is you can bring that maternal instinct to your company. Yeah. Firstly, you know, it's really lovely at Chiswick where we are now. Sat talking has formed such a key part of your story.

It has. And you're the only other person who actually knows what the Chiswick Town Hall is because normally my story I was like yeah where and you actually know what I'm talking about I do and actually uh maybe somewhat controversially I once did a taxidermy course within the walls of the Chiswick Town Hall uh not just me my husband my brother Jack my sister Martha and my mum we all made little taxidermy mice. Ah, wow. On a crazy night in the Cheswick Town Hall.

That place is wild. It is. It takes hours, by the way, to taxidermy a mouse. They're very small. And the other place that's significant to you is also significant to me, which is St Margaret's, where you have Holly & Co. Yes. Which is where I grew up when I was little it's so bizarre isn't it I know I know because that's why I think um I ended up doing a bit of work with not on the high street uh dot com not that long ago

and I had to get in touch with you because yes look we've both got these like yes I know two things I know and St Margaret's is like it's it's it's kind of one of those lovely places in London that's right on the outskirts it's got that villagey feel but you're also yeah you know quite not too far away from piccadilly so it's exactly yeah yeah three cheers for saint margaret's um but the other thing that resonated when you were talking is when you're saying in your mid-20s and you know it's a lot to go through you mentioned you sort of mentioned them quickly but of early marriage a divorce and a brain tumour are three really big deals. And so the bit that really resonated with me is the fact that you went and started doing this creative thing. You wanted to make these vegetable wreaths

because when I was in my early 20s and I lost my record deal, my first record deal, and I felt very high and dry, I started doing something creative. I started making these handbags. And I used to go to the haberdashers and buy up loads of fabrics and threads and things just so I had something to put in. And I sort of knew they weren't very good. And I just knew I had to do something.

It was like a real instinct. It was like there has to be a project. You know, one step in front of the other, something happening. But do you still have that? Do you still make things? Is that still part of what you do? but do you still have that do you still make things is that still part of what you do? No because now I suppose I was just reflecting driving over to you actually that I'm probably in the happiest place of my life right this moment and you know my son is an amazing boy

and I thought I was going to really really screw him up because building two companies, building not in the high street, it was not for the faint hearted. And so it took all of me. And I just got married to my partner, now my husband after 18 years together. And that was a serious journey as well because building businesses, being a young mum raising capital

um all the imposter syndrome that you had to deal with very lonely at the top always doubting yourself that you know really everyone's going to find you out soon and how because you've got 200 people working for you you've got these expectations put on you you've given it the gift of the gab now you've got to deliver um and how well you know uh you know that we weathered that storm as a marriage you know it was never ever easy um during sort of a whole decade of it actually it was just difficult because of course it was now I reflect back and I look at not on the high street and I see how well those small businesses are doing you know some of them are doing the same journey as Sophie and I now you know there's so many of them that turn over a million pounds a year and I'm like when I used to sell you know

small businesses to come onto the website you know we were talking you know well if you make 100 pounds in a month you know this was this is uh what we were talking about. And then now I've found Holly and Cohen. You know, I feel like this is my plight until I'm 90, forever, you know. And so I feel very settled now. So I don't, but yeah, I'm creative all the time because my entire tapestry of my day is doing things like this or to meet small businesses, help them. I'm constantly, you know, leaving voicemails and trying to help businesses if I see a great product and just,

I'll just leave them a message or something like that. And my team is creative. Holly & Co is highly creative. So I feel fulfilled. But I do know what you mean, because when I talk to this community of small businesses, you know, their businesses have helped them, their creativity, I suppose, being creatively fulfilled, has seen them through grief, seen them through cancer, seen them through marriage breakups. It's an amazing thing when you can feel creatively fulfilled, what that does to your soul. So I'm lucky right now. I feel like I have it all the time, but I really recognize that at that time, probably like yourself, you know, making the handbags. It's this desperate need to get it out of you, if you see what I mean, to show your personality, to show your individuality.

to show your personality, to show your individuality. And why I think, for me, everyone should build a business doing what they love. Because if you can live in this sort of world, a perfect world of being creatively fulfilled, controlling your own destiny and building something, I don't know how much better it gets. No, I'm doing lots of fierce nodding to all of that that because I think you're right in so much of what you do, if it's the thing you love, is just purely for that actually.

And the business stuff is a really nice side effect and you can grow that muscle of how to be a bit savvy with your business. But the core of it, the thing that makes you happy, the thing that makes you keep going half an hour, an hour past the time when you said I really should go to bed now, whatever it is, is that pure love of... And how nice that, you know, you woke up in the morning and it didn't exist and you go to bed at night and something new is in the world that you put together. That's, that's a really lovely feeling. I'd recommend that to anybody, no matter what it

is. And half the time when people say, oh, I could never do that. I could never make something or, you know, paint a picture or write a song, whatever it may be. I'm like, well, have you tried? And quite often the answer is no. might be really good at it I know I know well they're scared you know people are we're based you know we I was reading you know our brains haven't matured or grown for 2,000 years so we're built to fear you know ultimately we're just built to worry about the mammoth or whatever was coming our way. And I think still we're worried about the mammoth, you know, the what if this all goes wrong? You know, what if I make a plonker out myself? What if, you know, no one likes me on

Instagram? You know, all these what ifs. And on my 40th birthday, I worked out that I, I worked out I'm quite into efficiency. So on my 40th birthday, I worked out that I'm quite into efficiency. So on my 40th birthday, I worked out that I had 29,000 days on the planet. And I only had 14,000 days left. And I still need to work out I'm 43. I haven't updated this number, so it's worse. So it's not 14,000, it's 13,000 something. And I really realised that, you know, that was it. was it every day like you said I love what you

just said because that's what I feel I jump out of bed in the morning not because I'm just ridiculously optimistic but I know that today is a blessing and I'm grateful for the day and I know I can build something that by tonight never had even occurred. And so for me, it's like, and then that day passes, and I'll never get it back again. And my countdown is there. You know, we all have the countdown. And so you've got to go.

So the what ifs, you've just got to screw it, and you've got to do it because you're never going to get younger, you know. And that, for me, has been a great reckoning. That's been the best thing in my life to realise that just look at whatever's the worst that's going to happen. Make your peace with it or not. And then crack on. Yeah. I think maybe as well sort of part of when you're saying this is like the happiest time of your life. Which is a lovely thing to be able to recognise in the moment of experiencing as well because sometimes you look back and think

actually that was a really happy period but to know it's now is wonderful and listening to you speak about what sounds like an incredibly stressful not just first couple of years but first sort of decade of building your business it's also gives it quite a relief when you know it's you know harry is um now 15 nearly 16, and, you know, you're really proud of him and your business is established. So now you can kind of go, actually, you know what? There was a lot of holding my nerve going on behind the scenes for, like, a really long time, and I can tell you about it now

because it's got a happy ending, but for ages, I couldn't really let on to anybody. For ages, I had a very big smile, and I was telling everyone, everything is absolutely fine. It's actually amazing. And, yeah, it is, it And yeah, it's a great thing. And building Holly & Co now, don't get me wrong, I'm on the next adventure.

And that has its, you know, every business has its ups and downs and things. But I just feel I'm so grateful for age and I love being in my 40s. And I can't wait to be in my 50s because if I'm getting what I'm getting at my 40s that definitely were different to my 30s and it just goes this way this direction oh I'm really looking forward to it because I just you just start to feel more settled in yourself you definitely do and actually I love getting older

as well it's funny because when you're younger, you're so encouraged to be quite nervous about getting older, especially as a woman, you know, that there's a lot of negatives that go alongside it. But there's so many positives. I really love it. Oh, yeah, I think it far outweighs being younger. I mean, I wouldn't be paid to go through my 20s and 30s again.

No, my teens. Oh, my gosh, the teens right now looking at harry's gcses forget it you know not that yeah he probably won't listen i try and ask him to listen to the things that i'm on he probably won't so we're safe i think if there's anything a teenage boy is not gonna listen to it's a podcast about how like working mothers like trying valid they're just we've been trying to tell them in real life exactly so they're not going to spend their time their free time doing it are they no alexa play my podcast good night good night kids don't worry your secrets are safe with me i'm yeah um but uh yeah so when you were you know it's quite an extraordinary thing to work out how many days you've been on planet Earth and guesstimate how many you've got left, by the way, on your birthday.

I mean, obviously, it sounds like you did it with real positivity. But if that's the way you're inclined to sometimes weigh things up and feel this sense of urgency and wanting to get things done, how does that factor when you're also raising a child? Because you've mentioned, you know, the things you've had to sacrifice. you're also raising a child because you've mentioned you know the things you've had to sacrifice and now that you have a good relationship with your son and he's you know nearly nearly at full adulthood which when my son reaches 80 I'm gonna like high five everyone but um you know you just got married and he was best man is that right yeah that's right yeah it's really lovely but there's there's got to have been a lot of times along the way that that's been really quite really quite hard for you to miss out on things.

I mean, do you remember all those times in that way or has it got a different hue now that you're... No, I remember every single one. Only this morning I moved the... It made me teary. I moved the inflatable ball, a little football that we've kept, and that was the ball he chased when he did his first walk, his first steps. And I remember Frank called me.

You couldn't video, I don't think, on the smartphone at that point in time. So, and I've kept it there because that was a moment that I missed. But I was so proud of him for walking. And I obviously saw it that evening. And I always made sure from a young point in my business that you know it was about quality of time not quantity of time it had to be

so I never missed a bedtime ever and weekends were where I wasn't working you know I would really diarise real quality time with him so So, you know, this Saturday, him and I went out for lunch together. He puts his arm around me now like a man. And I remember holding his hand as a little boy, sleep deprived from working. And, you know, it has just been one heck of a journey. But what's been unbelievable, and I say this to small businesses who are trying to do this balancing thing. Number one, ignore balance. It's about building blocks. I call them like bricks.

You know, they're just the foundations of your life. And so it's not about the balance. It's about building amazing things, be it your relationship with your son, your partner, your business, your self-esteem, your health. And I really feel that the example that we're setting are young at the moment is imperative because in the future, we're going to, our kids are going to have a multi-hyphenated world. They're probably going to have to be their own brands from dot one and yet they don't learn entrepreneurism at school you're said to be born do you know the line you're either born an entrepreneur or you're not I don't believe that anymore it is about the fact that these kids need to know that everything an

entrepreneur is they probably better learn those skills. And I worry about those who haven't got maybe this happening under their roof at home, because I think that Harry has now observed me as a woman, number one, that I am a working woman, that I'm building a brand, building brands, the value of small business, the value of other entrepreneurs, the value of community, how creativity is at heart, I would say, of every successful business, how you have to be a leader, how to bring people along with you. I mean, financial management, marketing, he has learned so much from the experience that that now um is tonic to my misplaced guilt um my miss not my misplaced tears I I really do um I am sad that I missed a few things in his life but I I I miss the sports days I don't worry so much about that

because he gets to come and launch um Holly and Co at four o'clock in the morning with me do you what I mean he gets to come to podcasts when I do them and sit in the background and listen and observe and hear amazing stories so it's all about that it's all about the fact that we are examples now to our children and probably we're giving them the education firsthand that they are absolutely going to require in the future yeah i was gonna say so how is he learning so he's he comes along and participates in lots but when he was smaller what was he how was he learning these skills well he was learning these skills because he would always come into the office um you know har Harry's first job was to tidy up the mess and my name's Bubba and he'd go Bubba this is a mess and I said well Harry please tidy it up and my business partner was much tidier than I was and she used to delight that he used to come in and you know he

was two you know and waddling around and things um but then you know when um my, before Frank became the main caregiver, you know, we had a nanny and when the nanny was unwell, he would have to come to work with me and he would sit under the desk. Like, do you remember Mr. British at all on TV? Yeah, yeah, British Empire. British Empire.

So she had a baby in the drawer, you know, in reception. I always laugh because it's like my son was, he was under the desk and he'd have what sits and do you remember the DVD players with the um the headphones he would just sit under there watching um uh you know uh Power Rangers and things like that I'm familiar with their work yes you are it's a fantastic work um but basically he has constantly been in and out of always work environment, you know, packaging catalogs into bags or, as I said, tidying up the office or coming to meetings or if I'm doing a presentation,

he would come or if I do a talk to a school, sometimes he comes, he sits right at the back so that no one sees him. But that has been very, that has been sort of a golden thread running through his entire childhood um and so it's it's been a it's been amazing because it means there is no sort of work how was your day yeah fine you know and i'm coming off a tube doing something he's not interested in we have proper it's like part of where's the milk what podcast are like part of, where's the milk? What podcast are you doing today? Or where's the milk? What business are you helping today? Do you know what I mean?

It's part of our conversation. And it makes me really happy. Yeah, that's lovely. Well, I suppose if you're so closely weaved with your work, it makes sense that it would kind of bring everything in. And also if you describe your, like having lots of children with your businesses, it makes sense that your child would be part of that. Did you grow up in an environment that did the same thing for you then

did you have entrepreneurial parents no I didn't actually my father is um he is in finance so he was the first CFO of Nottingham High Street I mean he didn't mean to be but um seeing as I think 60 70 percent of all first employees were family because because they're very good in terms of not demanding much money or any money and working all the hours. And my mother, she was just a fantastic mum. She had a small business when I started, when I grew up, called Hollyhocks, actually. And it did personalised beddingding which now I look back at it you know this was in the 70s where you didn't have like holly written on things or your name written on anything um so potentially I now look back and think was that in my psyche but she was

just an amazing gift giver amazing and always we had to think about our gifting, always. And it was always to be clever. And her mum, her mum was incredible. She used to wear, this must have been then in the 1940s, 50s wore caftans on Christmas Day. She would make Christmas trees out of flowers, not have a Christmas tree. I mean, she was pretty cool so I think from that that side of things it was always to be different and be unique and so I think that has got into my psyche and my sister's psyche I've built not on the high street and Holly and Co with my sister as well and so I think that that's there but it has been been, you know, as my parents say, it was, you know, I wanted to work. I built businesses all the time, be it a little travel agency at the bottom of the stairs, the tuck shop at school, wanting to clean pubs at the age of 12, 13.

Someone employed me to clean pubs. God knows, I'm sure that's illegal. 12 13 someone employed me to clean pubs god knows I'm sure that's illegal um but you know my dad yeah my dad would sit out in the car park and I put my marigolds on and go and clean the pub and I'd earn that money at five o'clock six o'clock in the morning you know and he'd take me so very very supportive being my biggest cheerleaders um yeah so but I think it's more that there was And yeah, so but I think it's more that there was creativity, a sense of independence that they put into me. I left home at 16, 17, 17 to move out to Halston of all places in London and where I had my first job and things. So they allowed me to be very independent and creative and so I suppose that mix with wanting to be unique um yeah created this entrepreneurial thing I have that drive so you left home at 16 17 yeah well I must have because um I must have because I start I celebrated my first um yeah

about that age so young very very young how do you feel if harry did that not happening i mean not happening i mean it must have been that if i've got that wrong but it must have been about 18 yeah because i mean and i packed my bag and packed the peugeot up i i honestly if my parents listening to this i am so sorry for that because they'd been away and then there I was. I packed up the whole car. While they were gone? Yeah. And I waited for them to get back. And I drove off with my big brick one-to-one phone and my job and my car packed. And do you know what I mean? And this was it. I mean, you know.

You don't get the name Hurricane Holly for nothing, do you? For nothing, no. Harry's never leaving ever, as far as I'm concerned. So he's not Hurricane Harry? I'm not going to, I'm going to take all the wind out of him, you know? He's my best friend. He can't go anywhere. Well, I think your parents obviously had an instinct

that actually everything was going to kind of work out all right if you did that. And maybe, you know, there's some things that happened to me in my sort of late teens, early 20s that I look back and think you know what did my mum and dad think I was in a really inappropriate relationship that was very serious very quick moved out you know I mean I was geriatric compared to I was like 18 I'd just finished school but you know they must have been having conversations at home sort of saying you know is this okay but I suppose as a parent you sometimes do have to kind of trust your instinct about if they've got that drive if you let them do what they're going to do you keep the communication open but if you say you're not going anywhere then they probably would

just want to do it but just not tell you about it so I think I have to grapple with oh my goodness please Harry never ever do what I've done to my parents you know I got married young um really young um started my work really young moved out really young um they never blocked me you're right they never blocked me and somehow it all worked through and you know now they've just moved back to St Margaret's from being away um you know in in in where we grew up as children. And, you know, they're around the corner from me and we have the most amazing relationship. So that's, yeah, you've got to let them fly, haven't you? But I'm not looking forward to that day.

No, me neither. I keep telling my kids they're not allowed to move anywhere outside of the UK. I want them to stay in the same country as me. And I'm sure that's pretty much guaranteed they're going to go as far away as possible. I've been saying it since they were little what an idiot um I did see that you um put on your Instagram the other day a note about having an only child and how that was a

decision to have just Harry and I have actually got loads of friends that are only children I never really thought too much about it but I guess you know it never really occurred to me to think about whether or not there was a choice or not about you know it never really occurred to me to think about whether or not there was a choice or not about you know having an only child in fact if anything I sort of would think it probably would be a choice but then I spoke to someone the other week who really wanted another baby and couldn't and I think sometimes only children have got that people do well people make comments about whatever size family you have but I suppose you were saying that you had decided not to have another child and now you've sort of thought a bit more about that I mean is that

something you can remember going through as he was growing up and the business was building yeah absolutely I mean it's not something that was far from my mind ever because um you know my whole life I've wanted to be a mother um I love children um and it was just really difficult you know how but how on earth you know because I was building not in the high street I was helping all these thousands of businesses all their families we were on this trajectory we were I'd risked everything on it. This wasn't sort of like I could, you know, now Frank has left his career and he's now a house husband. So we have one income coming in. There was no sort of, you know, sometimes, you know, you think there was a choice. There was no choice. I couldn't not bring in income. I couldn't not build this to

continue supporting my family and it was hair raising so this wasn't sort of like you know first year rub our hands and say well that's good this is going to grow so how on earth would I be able to go through a pregnancy have a child know the type of mother I want to be then have two and a business baby um and that and then and as I said you know and then you've got to have a strong marriage and you know building a business for anybody is not for the faint-hearted and so again you've got to have a strong marriage you've got one child you don't want to risk this all and upset the apple cart I I suppose. And then another year will pass and then another year passes. And then, do you know what I mean? And so actually, it just became that I didn't

have another child, but my goodness, it was in my heart always. And now I look back at this time and think, and as I said in that post, actually, it was really coming to terms with the fact that, you know, my sister had a baby and she now is my honorary daughter. I love, you know, she has a room in my house. I was there at the birth. You know, this is my spirit child. is my spirit child um and then my close sort of work family their children are they have a den in my garden um my co-founders just had twins unbelievably and she's um um and those children will be part of my life and I've realized now that even the businesses I help, their children are very important to me. So I feel like I can be maternal again, almost like accepting that I'm not going to have my own another baby.

But I have babies everywhere in a way. I have spirits I can help everywhere. And that's how I'm going to make my peace with it. So I worry about the Christmas table and having a boy and, you know, and being one of two girls for my parents, you know, and we'll make the house nice if they've been away on holiday. And I think, will I have this? And I know that, you know, people left me messages

actually on that post saying, you know, you're going to have all the children who helped you, who you helped being around that Christmas table. That's what you'll have. And Harry. He better, yeah, and Harry. I'm making him listen to this podcast now. And Harry.

Could you say some key quotes? Key quotes. I'll do an edit to Harry edit for you. To Harry edit, yeah, exactly. I do totally agree with that as well because I think, well, first of all, as the mother of sons, people say really helpful things to you when you have a baby boy like um what is it they say uh boys leave and girls remain you know like what's that supposed to mean you know like oh great so they're all just gonna go and leave me thanks for that um but I honestly don't believe

in any of those sort of trite things you have your own um hold on a second did you do it okay don't walk around in bare feet in there sweetheart it's okay just go and find out daddy's in the studio that's my 11 year old kit love him he has he's actually been up since seven but he's still got that just got out of bed yeah so is harry yes um yeah kit's actually the one where i said to him once um will you look after me when i'm old and he said yes but only for a day or two oh my gosh yeah i don't even know if they're consecutive days or i have to pick them in advance or anything or hourly yeah exactly that's quite clever maybe i'll do that break it up i'll be like you said a day or two i'm taking 48

hours and this is how it's going to run um but I think I think you know there's many ways to have a family and the you know the the one that's regarded as the traditional the typical is probably you know mum dad two kids probably one of each gender but actually family is very rarely textbook and it certainly is incredibly bespoke even you never really know what it's like to be in a part of a family unless you are a member of that family and there's so many ways to make it work for you I think you know this is the sort of untold pleasures of as you say your friends babies and you know the people that you sort of scoop up under your wing and the way you can have that busy table with people that become like family so yeah I think if you've got you know a den at the end of your garden for

for kids that you've scooped up and your niece has got a room in your house, that you're right. That is exactly, they'll all be there. And Harry will definitely be around your table. I mean, if I know anything about the kids I have, kids are quite clever as well about plugging the gaps of what's needed in the family. And Harry will instinctively know, you know, what's needed for the people he loves, for his mum and dad. How was the wedding? Did he have to give a speech? He did.

He did. That was a moment in time actually um he's been asking for um frank and i to be married since we were he was three oh it's been campaigning so he has been campaigning and you know he um you know comments such as and you're the only mum and dad who aren't married in my whole class, you know, has been going on for a long time. And so when we, when Frank asked during lockdown, we decided to get married, Frank instantly asked him to be best man. And it was a very emotional day, actually, you know, all of us cried, but Harry was very emotional about it all because, you know, his mum and dad were doing that thing. And we've all travelled this journey. You know, he's not been immune to this journey. And now we was, for him, sticking. Somehow this meant that we were sticking, although we were sticking always.

But for him, it was that thing. Very important to him. So Frank asked him to be best man. thing very important to him so frank asked him to be best man uh he wrote a speech someone read it once gave me the wink saying it's pretty good i've not had to do anything um he stood up um in his beautiful suit hair all scooped back um in his ponytail and just delivered this speech which was phenomenal absolutely phenomenal had us in fits of laughter had us in tears exactly what a best man's speech should do um he spoke about the universe and two atoms colliding and he said that this is what he felt his parents were that they were always destined to be together Frank's known me since I was 18 and and that this was the proudest day of his life and how we're his best friends and you know at 16 to say that about your parents you know it was just a beautiful moment and and he did it all

by himself and so it made us just so proud that there we were after our adventure already, starting the first day of a new adventure as the three of us. But, you know, yeah. And it's just been such a happy house. You know, Frank, Harry, they feel very settled that somehow this ring on the finger did a lot to us all. And, yeah, and hence why it's just a very happy point in my life. Yeah, that's so gorgeous. From listening to what Harry said in his speech,

I don't think you've got any worries about whether or not he's going to be around your table. I think it'd be probably more case of how you're going to get him out of the house. Oh, well, I hope so. I hope so. That sounds very happy. I know you've got to go in a minute, so I just had a couple more things I want to ask you but you know we've been talking a lot about what it's like to be a working mother I mean what do you know sort of roughly the breakdown of the businesses that

you see on on the high street how many are owned by women and men and how many of them are sort of working mums well not in the high street andlly and co now so throughout all of it um not in high street was more skewed towards women i think actually one of the things i'm proudest um is that not in high street you've got to go back to 2006 was creating a way that women could do the school run and work and create a business um and it was in an environment that understood that um we didn't make it out for that but just it so happened that you know you run your own business online purely online that that could then fit into everything else so you know it's over 90 percent um female small businesses um with holly and co obviously it's about advice and support and

inspiration really just to be their virtual cheerleader and so that's men and women um so it's been an amazing thing to watch to watch the progression of when we started having conversations about doing the school run and working, you know, it's like, you don't say that out loud. To now saying, actually, I run, I've coined a phrase, the good life companies, because I just feel like SMEs, or I run a small business, or I have a kitchen table business just doesn't really cut it. So to have a good life company now that you can openly and proudly talk about flexible working and picking up kids and working till midnight and no one really thinks much of it anymore but that's been the shift that we've seen over 10 years and I think I hope that we've really

contributed to that shift um in this time yeah well I definitely think for so many working mothers in that way it'll really be great to have somewhere for advice and to know someone's got your back in that way and I suppose the only thing that can be tricky is that you know if if you feel like you have got the option of running a business where you're doing all that people who find that that's actually a real struggle might feel like ah how am I supposed to be hitting all these goals I suppose you just got to be forgiving of yourself that there are going to be weeks where you just feel like it didn't the balance wasn't quite right this week yeah and presumably you had weeks like that when you were building your business yeah

absolutely and and it's just saying so you know I like a good plan you know I don't believe in business plans but I um because I think they become out of date almost the moment you write them down but I believe in visualization understanding the goal I want to get to, or the rough goal. I visualize it, firm believer in visualization. And I sort of put my anchor there. And then I take the rope back to where I am today, and then know that I do not have coordinates of how I'm going to get there.

But as long as the compass is slightly in that direction, and sometimes it's going to take longer, or sometimes I'm having a great week and I'm speeding through, and then sometimes I'm veering to the right or to the left, but I'm anchored in the vision. That's all you can do. And, you know, if you're slower and it's going to take a little longer that's okay who's got the stopwatch I mean obviously you've got to earn money you've got to afford that living and all those sorts of things but it's okay it is really truly it's an old it's a phrase that's used too much but if you really think about it it is the journey and not the destination

every day whatever that thing you're dealing with, trying to balance it up, just try and remember that gratitude that you're having this experience in the first place, you know, that you're not going to go and work for some arse, you know, you can't bear, you're doing a commute you can't bear, you're doing a job you can't bear. You know, if you're fortunate enough, and if you're not fortunate enough, think to yourself, do you want to be working for the arse and the commute and everything like that? But as long as you've got your anchor there,

you hold onto that rope tightly, follow that dream and just allow the universe to sort of dictate that pace. And some days are going to be bad. Some days are going to be great. Don't think about it too much don't waste energy on things that aren't worth wasting um that energy it's precious you're

the Duracell battery of your vision you know so just do not pour that golden nectar out too easily um but yeah and and holy hurricane you know I have to say that to myself and as I'm getting older I'm realizing I'm holding on. Sometimes things are delayed. Sometimes it's bad days. As long as you have passion and enthusiasm, you'll get there. Yeah, well, that's such a powerful image. I love that, you know, the idea of this anchor and the rope back and sometimes it kind of veering from one side. That makes complete sense to me. And I think that's a really lovely way to know that sometimes you're going to feel like you've just gone off course and it just hasn't worked but you've got to keep pushing on and also I think the significance of being someone like you that's always been in this hurry always looking at the next thing and I you know I can tell from listening

to you've already got anchors thrown far ahead of you you've got a rope in your hands but I think the significance of being able to look at where you're at and say I'm really happy now it's actually a really massive deal just because I just don't think we often are good at doing that um so I think that's really special and I think there's so many people that are going to feel better for hearing well I'm thank you for saying that and it I don't think I've ever said it ever so great I'm saying on a podcast but you know I've never said that but I I really you know a few people have gone through a number of things lately and I have through lockdown um you just don't know what's that phone call is going to say the next call um you don't know what is going to happen

we've all not known what was going to happen and we've gone through it so if you are bloody happy just say it and own it because as you said you can retrospectively do it but I think there's something about being in that space and and feeling it um is is powerful and and it's only just really been the last few weeks I've just sort of realized that's where I'm at at the moment and I think I deserve it as well it's been through a bit of a journey and so again it's been kind to say to yourself actually I deserve happiness um that's okay to say it as well um so I do wish everyone that's listening that as well yeah no me too I wish that for everybody too because I think

sometimes people confuse that emotion with smugness and it's so far away from that actually as you say we're allowed to acknowledge when we're happy I've actually got a poster on my wall that says something like it's okay for me to have everything I want and I put it there not meaning I'm greedy but just sometimes I think you feel is it all right to acknowledge that everything's quite good for me at the moment and you feel, am I going to be punished for that? Is something bad going to happen if I acknowledge that? Does it mean I'm not thinking about the people who don't have everything they want right now?

But actually, life doesn't really work like that. It doesn't work like that. And I realise that when you say that you're happy, I mean, I'm touching wood. You've got a lovely wooden table here, so I almost want to kiss it. But when you say that you're happy, the universe does not work that it's now going to give you unhappiness now I really thought that for all of my 20s and probably

all of my 30s I'm realizing it really doesn't work like that so we have to own it because we we tend to own a lot of unhappiness on our social media and everything don't we we we be we're very open with unhappiness and I think it's a really good thing to maybe be really open with happiness just to balance it out because otherwise one is getting too skewed I would say you know it's it's too unbalanced in in that sense of what we're hearing there's a lot of bad things going on you know and it's um so yeah I think it's and maybe if someone is hearing this, maybe they could own their happiness as well. Yeah. No, well, thank you. I knew I'd get positivity from you. I got it in buckets. So thank you very much.

And I will make sure the Harry edit includes this last section in full because I think he probably knows it all already. But it'd be nice for him to hear it from his mother again. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much thank you for having me thank you so much ah so what did you think of that I told you loads of positivity loads of energy I hope you found it a bit inspiring I absolutely loved Holly's analogy about holding onto the rope and the anchor and how you can veer one way or another slightly off course, but so long as you're holding onto the rope, you're kind of finding your way to where you're supposed to be. That really made sense to me as a metaphor. And I think from the outside looking in, when you look at people who set up businesses and are doing things on their own terms, you sort of can feel a bit intimidated when it's in your own life. Well, how do I get from here to there? And what if I'm working for someone I like? What if I don't like? What if I don't really love my job? What if I haven't quite found that thing? And I think the idea of thinking, look, where do I want to get to? Hold on to that rope. Just one day at at a time keep something in your mind and actually it does focus you I think and it does make you push on and get through the tougher times when you've got that idea in your head so yeah I really love that from Holly and thank you very much for

listening um and maybe you go out and next time you do buy from a small business or if you are running your own small business you'll know you're part of a very clever thing, a very pleasing thing. In fact, only today I received a card from someone called Karen Mabon. She works up in Scotland. I've never met her personally, but I've loved her work. She makes beautiful prints. So she does cushions and pyjamas and scarves

and this kind of thing. And she sent me a note just to say, every time you've supported my business right from the beginning, and I don't think you understand quite how much, how significant that is. And I think that every person running a business feels that way about every customer they have. I know when I spoke to Yvonne Telford for the last series with her company, Kemi Telford, that's how she felt about her customers too. You know, there's so many ways to find our own community and find a job that really keeps us

excited. We deserve it. Anyway, I will see you soon have a lovely week in the meantime lots of love Thank you.