THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.171 - CALLOUT FOR XMAS PODCAST SUBMISSIONS AND A BIT OF FRAN LEBOWITZ

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Adam enjoys a short ramble with American humorist Fran LebowitzRecorded remotely on September 7th, 2021Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for his work on this episode.Podcast artwork by Helen GreenCONTRIBUTE TO THE ADAM AND JOE CHRISTMAS PODCAST [e-mail] make the subject header of your emails 'ADAM AND JOE CHRISTMAS 2021' followed by a description of the contents, for example: 'Made up Jokes', 'Eggcorns', 'Travellin' Tales' or 'Excellent Anecdotes' No personal or work related messages please, just things that will delight me, Joe and the Christmas podcats PLEASE KEEP IT SHORT! Just a few lines ideally. We won't have time to read long messages or listen to long audio clips.The deadline for contributions is this Friday 10th December at midnight. PLEASE REMEMBER THAT WHATEVER YOU SEND US MIGHT BE MADE PUBLIC!Thanks. Love Adam and JoeRELATED LINKSTHE FRAN LEBOWITZ READER (Originally published 1994. 2021 reissue includes new preface by Fran Lebowitz.) (WATERSTONES)FRAN LEBOWITZ INTERVIEW - 2019 (YOUTUBE)A short, well put together profile of Fran in New YorkTONI MORRISON AS REMEMBERED BY FRAN LEBOWITZ (DELAYED GRATIFICATION WEBSITE)FRAN LEBOWITZ ON WRITING, POLITICS, HUMOR, STAND UP COMEDIANS, NEWS, LETTERMAN - 1995 (YOUTUBE)FRAN LEBOWITZ SNL SKETCH - 2021 (YOUTUBE)FRAN LEBOWITZ IN 1978 (YOUTUBE)COLLECTION OF FRAN LEBOWITZ APPEARANCES ON DAVID LETTERMAN (YOUTUBE)PAUL McCARTNEY COMPOSING 'GET BACK' (FROM 'GET BACK' BEATLES DOC - 2021) (YOUTUBE)JESS ROBINSON PODCAST - STARS IN YOUR EARS (APPLE PODCASTS) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening I took my microphone and found some human folk Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, podcats? Adam Buxton here, this is Rosie.

How you doing, Rose? My dog friend. It's cold, isn't it, Rose? Icy puddles today. Icy puddles. Come on, doggy. So, yes, how are you doing, podcats? Not too gloomy, I hope.

It's a little bit gloomy, the weather. And also ongoing Omicron-related stress. Not forgetting the other variants, of course, which are still available. I've gone very retro and have a old-fashioned cold. My daughter gave it to me as an early Christmas present. All the hipsters have got it.

Very... rosy. as an early Christmas present. All the hipsters have got it. Hey. Rosie. There's a big tractor up in the Christmas tree field ahead. And Rosie doesn't like it. She took one look at it, turned around and is now loping back home. So I'm afraid we've lost Rosie for this intro. Hang on, podcats, I've got to just take Rosie home.

She doesn't like the tractor. There you go, Rosie's back inside. We've passed tractors before in these here fields, and she hasn't had a problem. Maybe she's got an ethical position on the Christmas tree business. I don't know. Or maybe it's the guy driving the tractor.

I think it's one of Santa's people that she might have had a row with. Anyway, what was I saying? I've got a cold, yeah. It comes with the nasal voice. Big sneezes, that's how it started that kind of thing real earth-shaking stuff quite nice actually quite pleasurable if i'm going to be absolutely frank but um everything after that wasn't so good a couple of days of feeling very sad and then gradual improvement i mean it's non-stop viruses this year for buckles not just buckles obviously it has to be um has to be said but look

welcome to this mini episode just before the christmas episode which will wrap up this run of podcasts for 2021 and this features a very short conversation with legendary New York humorist Fran Leibowitz I will tell you a little bit more about Fran

and explain why the conversation is so short after a bit of Christmas podcast-related business. Joe Cornish and myself would like to invite you all to join us for another festive helping of Waffle on the 25th of December 2021, and we would love to include a few contributions from you. So if you do have something you'd like to send us

for possible inclusion in the christmas podcast which joe and i will be recording next week not sure if it's going to be face to face or remote i guess we'll have to keep an eye on the news won't we so if you'd like to send in something for us to read out, or maybe an audio clip of some kind, some hilarious slash Christmassy audio clip, the address is in the description of today's episode and on the front page of my website, adam-buxton.co.uk. A few things to bear in mind before you start emailing and i apologize if this is a little bit officious but i know from experience that going through the emails can sometimes take up a lot of time so it would really help us if you stuck to these guidelines please make sure the subject header of your emails is Adam and Joe Christmas 2021,

followed by a description of the contents, for example, made-up joke, egg corn, travelling tale or excellent anecdote. Two, no personal or work-related messages, please. Stay on topic with just things that will delight me, Joe and the Christmas podcats. And please do remember whatever you send us might be made public. Three, please keep it short. Very important, that. Just a few lines, ideally.

We will not have time to read lengthy emails that go on for paragraphs. Four, the deadline for contributions is Friday the 10th of December at midnight this coming Friday. After midnight on Friday, if you try to email us, you will be arrested. Okay, I think that's it. Thanks in advance for your contributions and me and Joe look forward to reading them. Now, let me tell you a little bit about this

short interview with Fran Lebowitz. I'll try and keep this introduction short because it's quite a boring story. It's basically a boring story about a stupid man who was very excited to have the opportunity to speak to legendary New York humorist Fran Lebowitz, because she was doing a round of interviews to publicize the reissue of her book, The Fran Lebowitz Reader, a collection of essays. The Fran Lebowitz Reader brings together in one volume, with a new preface, two bestsellers, Metropolitan Life and Social Studies. I'm quoting now from the Goodreads website. By turns ironic, facetious, deadpan, sarcastic, wry, wisecracking and waggish, she is always wickedly entertaining. And it was quite a long process of pinning down a date. When the date finally rolled around, I sent out a Zoom invite to Fran via her PR people at the publishers,

and they quickly got back to me to say, ah, it's tomorrow, though, not today. And I checked my emails, and sure enough, they were right. However, by that time, I had made complicated arrangements to travel out to Kent the following day, to do a bit of music work with a friend out in the countryside, and then the following morning do a podcast with Jim Moyer, Vic Reeves, which you may have heard. So I couldn't reschedule that stuff, and it was not possible to reschedule with Fran. I couldn't reschedule that stuff and it was not possible to reschedule with Fran. So I thought, no problem. I'll just do the interview with Fran via Zoom at my friend's house out in Kent while he and his wife go out for supper.

I was supposed to join them for supper, but I said, no, look, I've got to do this interview with Fran. Can't reschedule. Long story short, it was a total technical meltdown. And Fran, who has carved out a persona really based on not suffering fools gladly, did not seem thrilled at the time it took, first of all, for me to connect with her out in New York, and then with the constant technical breakdowns.

Every couple of minutes, the signal from my end would freeze, and I could hear her in New York going, He's frozen again! Like, what are we going to do? He's frozen again! So, obviously, it made having a relaxed conversation totally impossible. Plus the fact that it's not her natural environment anyway. She's famously technophobic, doesn't own a laptop or a phone even, I think. And really had to be convinced to do this Zoom interview with an assistant from the publishers.

So anyway, after about 20 minutes of trying to talk to Fran and hoping that the connection would settle down, I had to give up. I'm hoping that we might be able to arrange something in 2022, because I'd love to talk to her properly. If you're a regular listener to the podcast, you might have heard me talking about the show Pretend It's a City,

which was one of my TV- highlights of this year on Netflix. You can still see it on Netflix. Directed by Martin Scorsese, a friend of Fran Liebowitz. It's basically just them wandering around New York while Fran monologues about the vicissitudes of modern life and culture. And it's very funny. Here's a few Fran facts for you. She is currently aged 71. She got kicked out of high school for nonspecific surliness.

Drove a New York cab in the 1970s. Wrote humorous film reviews for Andy Warhol's Interview magazine. And then she wrote a couple of books, and that was it. A couple of books of kind of humorous essays. And then she stopped and has said ever since that she got writer's block. So for the last few decades, Fran has made a living just being herself, going around, holding forth with her opinions on a wide variety of topics, on talk shows and at speaking engagements. And I was very excited to have her on, but yeah, we didn't get

very far. So this is what I was able to salvage from the conversation. Here's a bit of Fran Lebowitz. Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat and have a ramble chat. Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat. Talking Hat. Friend, you are in Gotham Recording Studios in New York City. Is that part of the Gotham Comedy Club? I don't think so. It's something called the Gotham Podcast Studio.

I was thinking that maybe it was where all the comedians do their podcasting once they finish their sets. You're a comedy fan. Do you still go out and see stand-up comedy these days in New York? You know, I haven't been in years, you know, but I used to go. That's true. What kind of people did you used to go and see? Well, I mean, it depends when you mean.

I mean, I'm not, as you can see, a young girl. So I've seen many, many people, including I've seen Richard Pryor. That would make me very much not a young girl Richard Pryor and what did you like about Richard Pryor I would have to say that Richard Pryor was the best comedian

I ever saw and I don't think that too many people would argue with me even people who never saw him I mean the last time I saw him I think was Town Hall which is not a club but which is a theater. And I would say that the audience was probably 75% comedians. So everyone knew how great he was. And also, I mean, comedians, like other humans, are fairly competitive. Comedians,

I think, may be a little more competitive than the average person. But I never saw that with comedians in regard to Richard Pryor. I think the feeling was just, he's Richard Pryor. You know, we're not going to be as good as he is. You know, so there was just total admiration and he was great. Did you ever think of yourself as having similar talents as stand-up comedians? I never wanted to be a stand-up comic. It was never of the slightest interest to me. I know that many people have suggested that I become one, but it's just never interested me at all.

I love watching it. I think that it's probably the aspect of show business that I find the most interesting. I think that, of course I'm sure I'll get killed for saying this, but you'll get killed for saying good morning now. But I mean, as a group, not every single person, but as a group, it's my experience that comedians are probably the smartest of any people in show business. I mean, of course, when they become more successful,

or even some at the beginning, you know, many of them have other people write for them. But, you know, it's really pretty much a one person thing. And it has a lot of invent, it should have a lot of inventatives to it. And so I could watch 1000 standups in a row, you know, I would see probably out of that 1000, maybe two good ones. But it's just a form that I find really interesting. Was one of the things you admired about Richard Pryor, his writing though, I guess he was, I mean, it was more his kind of spirit. I don't know. Did he take a long time constructing his written routines? I wonder.

I have no idea, but I could tell you that he also had every kind of talent you would possibly need. Even one aspect, which I have no interest in, which is he was fantastic physically, which is something that I have no interest in, which is he was fantastic physically, which is something that I have zero interest in. You know, you could be the greatest person ever. You could be Charlie Chaplin. You know, I still don't care. But it did add to it. He was incredibly inventive. I mean, because of the era in which he worked, you know, he had pretty

limited opportunities. In other words, now a young comedian that good would be able to write their own movies, they'd be able to direct their own movies. But of course, you know, in the era of Richard Pryor, that would not have been a possible thing. So he was in a lot of kind of dopey movies, as many comedians were, and still probably are. He didn't have the control of his career that people can have now. And I'm certain that he wrote his work, you know, but he also invented. But also the truth is that if you perform a lot, you can look like you just made it up that second because you're referring to something that just happened. Then this is something probably audiences don't want to hear. But, you know, audiences are more alike than comedians are.

So he might say something to the audience that everyone thought, that's so fantastic. He just thought that up. But my guess would have been that this happened in the audience before. Right. Sorry, Fran. Your microphone, it's sounding a little roomy this end. I'm just keen that it sounds okay to you

and that it's sufficiently close for it to be as good as possible roominess is not usually a problem in new york can you describe what you've been doing today i'm always interested to know what your average days are like out there in new york i have to say that I don't really have average days. You know, every day is different. Now, that makes it sound more riveting than it is. But partially, that's because I seem to have lately, especially so little control of the days. And also because, you know, the last, I don't know, you know, more than a year and a half, whatever,

has been probably all over the world. The same is like, you never know, you know, what's going to happen. You know, I mean, I said to someone the other day, they said, well, we can do this at this time. I said, yes, that's if the volcano on 14th Street doesn't erupt. And he said, what volcano on 14th Street? There's no volcano on 14th Street. I said, as far as we know, there's no volcano on 14th Street. But, you know, no one ever knew there was one, but possibly. I mean, I live in a city where last But, you know, no one ever knew there was one, but possibly. I mean, I live in a city where last week, you know, I forget how many. That's a horrible thing, but it's true. A number of people drowned in their apartments in New York City.

So average has kind of fled the culture. I don't know what average is. Also, I'm interested to know if, for example, you were at a party and you were talking to someone who, for some reason, didn't know who you were and you were interested in them sufficiently to carry on talking. How would you describe what you do if they asked? I wouldn't. I have to say that I wouldn't bother. But maybe there's something about them that's alluring and intriguing. And what would that be? I don't know. You tell me. What do you find intriguing about people? I'm trying to remember what that might have been.

Do you think people are still as exciting as they ever were? Was it more fun to be going out in the 70s? Or are people more or less the same whenever? No, people in general, probably the same. The difference is in the 70s, I was in my 20s. Okay, so I can tell you that definitely, and I'm certain I'm not the only person who's aware of this. It is a lot more fun to be in your 20s. There's no question. Also, another word for young is new. So obviously, more things are new when you're young, which is probably one of the things that makes being young more fun. But first of all, there's obviously no such thing as, you know, people in general. But also, the era in which I was in my 20s was a very interesting era in New York.

Now, you know, people now, of course, there's people who are nostalgic for the 90s, which I hardly even remember. And I don't mean I don't remember it because I was, you know, taking drugs or because I'm having issues with my memory. Just because, like, what does that even mean, the 90s? I can't even think what that meant, you know. So there are, and the people who are nostalgic for the 90s are people who were in their 20s in the 90s. So everyone cherishes their own youth. And that is because that's the time probably people are in general most available to things that are new. Although I have to say that the number of people who are young who are interested in the 70s has been for the past a long time, you know, surprising to me.

And I know this is true because for maybe 20 years, kids come up to me in the street and say, oh, I wish I lived in New York in the 70s. And this is, you know, was initially quite a surprising thing to me because I know that when I was in my 20s, I didn't go up to old people in the street and say, oh, I wish I lived in New York in the 30s. So that nostalgia, which is in general a poisonous thing, a horrible thing. Nostalgia for an era in which you didn't live is a kind of more surprising thing, I suppose. Why is nostalgia a poisonous thing? Because it's regressive. It looks backwards. And so there's some, you know, things that people can be nostalgic about, which are perfectly harmless or even maybe adorable.

But some things are really vile. You know, I mean, the political situation in this country, and unfortunately not just in this country, a lot of it is nostalgia. You know, it's not nostalgia for, oh, that song was so great, or I love those shoes of that era. No, it's wasn't it much better when women behave this way and black people were allowed to do this. And that's what the nostalgia is for.

And, of course, you know, although there are many things now that are worse than they used to be, mostly, in my opinion, the things that are worse are actual things, objects. I think objects are much worse than they used to be. They're, you know, flimsier, they fall apart. That's absolutely true. But many things are much better than they used to be. Doesn't mean they're good. Certainly doesn't mean they're perfect, but they are much better. It is much better to be a girl now than when I was a girl. There's just no question about it. You know, is it great? Is it perfect? It is not. You know, it is better, you know, to be not white now than it used to be. Is it great? Nope. Is it perfect? Nope. Will ever be. I fear not. But it is certainly better, you know. Now, of course, people generally don't take the long view. Then they certainly don't care what happened

before they were born, you know. Of the more harmless variety of nostalgia, perhaps is thinking about the music scene in New York back in the 70s. And I'm always intrigued to find that you were an early adopter of the New York Dolls and a passionate follower of theirs. Is that fair to say? Well, it's because I knew David. I knew David. I knew David Johansson, not as a member of the Dolls, but just as a guy, David. So I knew him.

And he was kind of a friend of mine. And the first time I met him, I remember, was in Max's Kansas City, which was a kind of a bar and restaurant. And I came in and he would happen to be standing in the front. And he said, Mick Jagger's here. He's in the back room. And I came in and he would happen to be standing in the front. And he said, Mick Jagger's here. He's in the back room. And I know he wants to meet me. So will you tell him that I'm here and I'm going to come meet him? And I thought, you know, I said, like, you're insane. First of all, I don't know Mick Jagger. So I'm not going to be telling him anything. And it's really perhaps he wants to meet you, perhaps he does not. So I remember that's how I started talking to him.

He was also with a girl I knew, and that's how I met him. I love the dolls. I went to see the dolls all the time. They didn't last very long. This is a very interesting thing. I don't think the dolls, I don't know how long they lasted, but it could have been more than a couple years. So it didn't seem, you know, a brief period then then a year or two when you're young is a long time to me now a year if someone told me you have

to do this in a year i think i can't do it by then that's way too fast but uh they lasted only a couple years they were very a kind of um it was a kind of small thing the dolls said i mean the dolls are much more successful now than they were when they were the dolls and there was a place now i'm trying to think of what was called um that will come to me at some point i hope uh they played in this place was it the mercer yes thank you the mercer art center they played there and uh we went to see them like every night and there were a lot of people there but a lot lot of people, I'm talking about there were like maybe 200 people that were there. And they not only didn't last very long, they actually, members didn't last very long, by which I mean they died. You know, so I'm not certain.

I think possibly Dave is the only one of the Dallas that's alive. But we were used to people dying all the time then of drugs. You know, there's been like in my lifetime, you know all the time then of drugs. There's been, in my lifetime, a few waves of death. And the first was drugs, of course, because people are more likely to die of drugs when they're young, although people take drugs when they're older. But I got to Dallas their first job,

which was also a kind of an accident, which I don't remember how I met this guy. But somewhere I met this guy. He lived in Princeton, New Jersey. And he told me, I'm having a big party. And I want to hire a band. And, you know, do you have think, do you know of a band? I can't think of how I would have met this guy who possibly taught at Princeton, but I'm not certain. So I said, Yes, I know this band. And I drove them to Princeton because I was the only person

with a valid driver's license. So I drove them to Princeton. We rented like a van. We went to Princeton. It was like a big party outside of this big house, like in a garden or something. They did the gig and the guy never paid them. So I proved right away

that I would be very bad manager of the band and were you going and seeing other bands were you hanging out at cbgbs and enjoying the ramones and talking heads and patty smith and people like that you know i never i mean i went to cbgbs you know i know this is seems like a shocking thing and it was a more shocking thing at the time i never cared that much about music in that way, so that, although everybody my age, that was the center of their life, no question, you know, I never really cared that much about it, I was a big jazz fan, I went to see jazz all the time, so I went to CBGB's, but I can't say that I was ever a fan of CBGB's, that I have to tell you. I definitely, the first time I went there,

first of all, it was filthy. Now, that was a thing you were not supposed to care about then, but that was a thing I always cared about. And I remember that someone was going to the bar and they were getting drinks. They said, what do you want? And I said, Lysol with a twist. That's what I would like.

You know, I didn't even want to touch anything there. So I was not a person who hung around there, even at Max's, which had music upstairs, because Iggy used to play there all the time upstairs. I would once in a while go upstairs to see the music. I think television played upstairs. I think once in a while I would go, but I didn't really care. You were not and never really have been a drinker, though, Fran, or a drug taker. So I'm interested to know how you were able to enjoy those environments, places like CBGB's that presumably relied on people being fairly well oiled. You know, I actually stopped drinking and taking drugs when I was 19.

And that is because I believe that at birth, everyone gets a kind of lifetime, you know, supply you're allowed to have. You could do it all between 15 and 19, which is what I did, or between, say, 19 and 100. So by 19, I had hit my lifetime supply, and I never did it again. It didn't stop my enjoyment of life, you know, at the time. And it is the reason, I believe, why for the last, like, 40 years, people are always saying, I don't know, ask Fran. She remembers everything.

The reason I remember everything is because I wasn't high. So I do remember. I wouldn't say I remember everything, but I remember more than most people because I wasn't high. It didn't interfere with my enjoyment. I don't think I remember enjoying myself. Wait, this is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success.

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Yes. Continue. He's frozen. I'm frozen. Am I back yet? It's telling me my connection is unstable. Hello, can you hear me? Is he aware that he's frozen?

Hey, welcome back, podcats. Yeah, so there you go. That's what I was able to salvage from the conversation with Fran Leibowitz, which took place towards the end of September this year, 2021. And even though it didn't work out the way I hoped, I'm very grateful indeed to Fran for her time and for putting up with what must have been quite an annoying experience for her. And I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I might get another opportunity to talk to Fran another time. I've put a few links in the description to a few other appearances that Fran's made that you might enjoy. And I do recommend the Fran Leibowitz Reader. And if you're a fan of David Sedaris or Dorothy Parker or humorists in that tradition, I think you'll get something out of it.

Now, what else? I was on another podcast recently. Jess Robinson's podcast. Jess, a singer, comedian. She was on Britain's Got Talent. She's a supernaturally gifted mimic and impressionist vocal. Like she can sing in the style of pretty much anyone. Amazingly talented.

And she has a podcast with some equally talented musical friends so they put together kind of musical pastiches of stuff and I was her guest on her Christmas special this year which is now. Link in the description of the podcast. On the last episode of the podcast with Kay Van Novak, I think I mentioned my appearance on the Beatles podcast, Your Own Personal Beatles. And I can't remember if I'd started watching the Get Back documentary when I was talking about having been on that podcast or not. But now I've seen the whole thing. All eight plus hours.

And after being initially wary, it didn't take long for me to feel differently. Maybe it was breaking through some kind of boredom barrier. But after a while, Maybe it was breaking through some kind of boredom barrier. But after a while, I felt that I was in the room with the Beatles. It was the beginning of 1969 with all the attendant fashions and habits and attitudes. And I was totally immersed. And then it was fascinating to watch the interplay between the members of the band.

It reminded me of the dynamic that I've seen between other bands and band members. And it reminded me of my own working relationships over the years. It reminded me of my own working relationships over the years. And the stresses of trying to do something creative and come up with things with other people. It was moving and funny and frustrating. And then, of course, you've got all the music moments where you see some of these tracks that you're so familiar with actually being born. The moment where McCartney starts strumming away and writes, get back more or less in front of your eyes in five minutes. I was thinking maybe he'd already written it the night before and he thought, oh, I'll come in the next day and I'll pretend that I'm writing it on the spot that's what I would have done whether he did that or not it's still an amazing few minutes to see the bones of this song coming together the main riff and then some

of the lyrical ideas and there's quite a few of those moments throughout the thing and then billy preston turns up and after quite a long while of them banging their heads against the wall trying to work through certain songs especially don't let me down their old pal billy preston comes in sits down at the Rhodes piano, the electric piano, and immediately starts providing little riffs and fills that characterize the song completely and bring it together and make all the pieces fit. Oh, it's just amazing and joyful. I imagine I'll be wanging on about it quite a bit in future episodes, in fact. Something to look forward to, isn't it? Okay.

Head back home now and get some tea. So, next time we're together will be Christmas Day. Until then, I hope you're alright, doing well, staying safe. If you're one of those people in the NHS or the frontline key worker, I take my hat off to you.

I'm sure you've got enough on your plate to be dealing with without the added stress of the new variant. Thanks. Thanks as well to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for all his work on this episode. Thanks once again to Fran Leibowitz and all her publishing team out there for all their efforts. Much appreciated. Thanks to ACOS for all their efforts. Much appreciated. Thanks to ACOS for their ongoing support. And thanks most especially

to you guys. Come on, let's have a nice, safe hug. Until Christmas Day, take care. I love you. Bye! until Christmas day take care I love you bye Bye. Thank you.