THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.197 - PADDY CONSIDINE

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

Adam talks with British actor and musician Paddy Considine about Hot Fuzz, life in the Game Of Thrones universe, self doubt, some of the childhood experiences at school and at home that have fed into Paddy's more intense portrayals, and Paddy's love of US indie legends Guided By Voices.Conversation recorded remotely on October 11th, 2022Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and Becca Bryers for conversation editing.Podcast artwork by Helen Green RELATED LINKSPADDY'S RECENT GUIDED BY VOICES SPOTIFY PLAYLISTSCREEN AGE by FENTON BAILEY - 2022 (WORLD OF WONDER)PADDY INTRODUCES DEAD MAN'S SHOES - 2004 (YOUTUBE)MY WRONGS 8245-8249 and 117 Directed by Chris Morris (2002)PADDY CONSIDINE & OLIVIA COLMAN INTERVIEW WITH KERMODE AND MAYO (RE. TYRANNOSAUR) - 2011 (YOUTUBE)PADDY CONSIDINE TALKS JOURNEYMAN - 2018 (YOUTUBE)PADDY CONSIDINE & SHANE MEADOWS - TONI MARONI (COMEDY SHORT)BILLY BOB THORNTON Q TV BLOW UP (2009)BILLY BOB THORNTON EXPLAINS Q TV BLOW UP (2016)GUIDED BY VOICES INTERVIEW - 1996 (YOUTUBE)GUIDED BY VOICES CLASSIC LINE UP - BOB TEACHES BAND JAR OF CARDINALS - 2011 (YOUTUBE) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening I took my microphone and found some human folk Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, podcats? Adam Buxton here.

I'm with my best dog friend, Rosie. She is a half-whip-it, half-poodle. Rosie. She is a half whippet, half poodle, and she is currently sniffing away at a clump of long grass, wet with rain, at the side of a farm track out here in Norfolk, UK, where we are taking advantage of a break in the clouds, the oppressive dark clouds that have hung around this place for the last few days in a well depressing fashion. But right now the sun's come out and it's actually quite great and beautiful and everything looks wonderful. So that's cheered me up. What about you, Rosie? I'm mysteriously sniffing. What is it? You always sniff around there. It's a special smell place. What kind of smells? Animals. Sometimes animals, sometimes regret,

and sometimes opportunity. And sometimes, opportunity. Dog eyes. What are you doing there? Come on, let's go. How are you doing, podcats? Hope you're well. I'm doing okay, thanks very much. Let me tell you a little bit about my guest for today's podcast. It's podcast number 197 and it features a rambling conversation with British actor and musician Paddy Considine. Paddy facts. Patrick George Considine was born in 1973 and lived with his parents and siblings in Winsill near near Burton-on-Trent, in the West Midlands of England. Paddy studied performing arts at Burton College in the early 90s. That was where he met the Scorsese to his De Niro, Shane Meadows,

who cast Paddy as the lead in his 1999 film, A Room for Romeo Brass. lead in his 1999 film A Room for Romeo Brass. Paddy also starred in and co-wrote Shane's 2004 film Dead Man's Shoes, in which he played an ex-soldier returning to his hometown in search of revenge. What a film. Some of my other favourite films that feature Paddy include 2002's 24 Hour Party People, in which Paddy played the manager of New Order and Joy Division, Rob Gretton. Paddy was, of course, in Hot Fuzz, released in 2002. He was one of the dim-witted local detectives in a little double act with Rafe Spall.

And we talk a bit about Hot Fuzz in our conversation that same year 2007 The Bourne Ultimatum was released in which Paddy played an ill-fated journalist from The Guardian and of course there's Tyrannosaur Paddy's first film as writer and director released in 2011 his second film as writer and director, released in 2011. His second film as writer and director, which he also starred in, was Journeyman, released in 2017, about a boxer who suffers a serious head injury. I haven't seen that one, I must confess.

I've seen Tyrannosaur, though. Not something I'm likely to forget. It was based on a short film that Paddy made in 2007. That was called Dog Altogether. And it was about a man called Joseph, trapped in a violent spiral of self-destructive rage. That's what it used to say in my old Twitter bio. And Hannah, herself, suffering at the hands of a horrifically abusive husband, who provides a focus for Joseph's redemption.

Both films starred Peter Mullen and Olivia Colman. And if you haven't seen Tyrannosaur, I'd really recommend it. But you definitely have to pick the right moment. It's very intense and upsetting in parts. So maybe a good one for Christmas afternoon with the whole family. Just tell them it's about dinosaurs.

Paddy has also popped up in TV dramas a fair bit over the years, in shows like Red Riding and Peaky Blinders. And earlier this year, he had a starring role in the Game of Thrones prequel House of the Dragon. Paddy played the embattled King Viserys Targaryen in episodes that also featured actors Olivia Cooke, Emma Darcy, Rhys E. Fanns and Matt Smith. My conversation with Paddy took place remotely

towards the middle of October this year, 2022, with me getting over a cold in my nutty room here in Norfolk and Paddy talking to me from the house he shares with his wife and three children, not far from where he grew up in the West Midlands. We talked about life in the Game of Thrones universe, self-doubt, love a bit of self-doubt chat, self-doubt chat, self-doubt chat, self-doubt chat. I'm so into that. Early in the morning, self-doubt's already dawning. Growing more intense throughout the day.

Those are the original lyrics, I think. We also talked about some of the childhood experiences at school and at home that have fed into Paddy's more intense screen portrayals and we talked about another central passion in his life music Paddy is the lead singer and songwriter for the band Riding the Low alongside bandmates Chris Baldwin, Dan Baker, Rich Eaton and Connor Smith They tour frequently and earlier this year they released their third album which features polished indie rock occasionally reminiscent of Oasis and one of Paddy's all-time favourite bands, Guided by Voices, whose frontman Robert Pollard we spoke about towards the end of our conversation. But we started by reminiscing about the summer of 2006, when I met Paddy for the first time during the two weeks I spent filming my part in Hot Fuzz on location in the village of Wells, Somerset, where the film's director Edgar Wright grew up.

Back at the end for a bit more waffle, but right now with Paddy Considine. Here we go. but right now with Paddy Considine. Here we go. When would the last time that I saw you have been? I think it might have been a Riding the Low show soon after we filmed Hot Fuzz. Yeah, it probably would have been, yeah. That's where I first met you was on Hot Fuzz. And you came along to a gig, didn't you? One of our sort of early London gigs, yeah.

So when it was all pretty ramshackle and mad but i've got a photograph of me at that show which i think was where would it have been oh to islington or something there you go exactly right oh to islington and i've got a photograph of my brother who came along that night uncle dave and behind him behind him photo bombing the shot is Olivia Colman yeah Olivia came that night as well yeah before she sort of skyrocketed she could walk around in them days without having to wear glasses and a woolly hat so yeah she came along to that show as well I really enjoyed it was such a good night where did you meet Olivia was it on Hot Fuzz yeah I met Olivia on that at the read-through

actually it was the first time I met her I'd written this short film and I was looking to try and cast it with the right person and I couldn't really find the right actress for it and it was one of those really weird moments where we both walked through the door at the same time and I went to hold it for her and she sort of went to hold it for me and she went no after you in her Olivia way and I went I don't know a light bulb went off and I went I found her you know I could get all sort of philosophical about it but there was a voice greater than mine that says she's the one it's her but yeah she she came along and did the short film and that short film transformed into Tyrannosaur eventually. But yeah, it was all from Hot Fuzz from holding a door. But it was a beautiful thing.

Hot Fuzz was a great one because there's just so many great people that I met on it and that I'm still in touch with today. I texted Edgar Wright yesterday and said that I was going to be speaking to you. Edgar is the fastest text responder I've ever known. It's extraordinary. I think maybe he's had his phone implanted into his mind now. And so he just thinks his responses and they come back immediately for someone who's incredibly busy as Edgar is. Yeah, he does get back to you. It's awe-inspiring. Yeah, I'm usually a day. I'm sometimes a day or two, you know.

A day, that is fine. I've done months before. Really? Yeah, in a kind of totally crazy way. So it goes beyond a certain point. Like a week is not good. For a week, you'll say, hey, sorry, it's taken so long, blah, blah, blah. But then you get to a month and you think,

it's not even worth making an excuse or apologizing.'m just gonna respond and they'll have to think oh what a weird guy anyway i texted edgar and he said he said to send you his love first of all yeah is he told you to ask me something not really really. I was saying to him, like, have you got anything specific, any specific memories of Hot Fuzz, I was saying. And he said, you can ask him about loss of nerve. He nearly dropped out of Hot Fuzz, I think because he felt outgunned. And I asked him to stay and he was brilliant.

Oh dear. And then he said, but he did the same on World's End, too. So I nicknamed him Mr. Eleventh Hour. Yeah, he calls me the Eleventh Hour Man. Yeah, that's interesting because I didn't feel so much that I was outgunned on Hot Fuzz. That wasn't it, really. We had Dead Man Shoes doing the circuit at the same time

that Shaun of the Dead was doing the circuit. So I got to know Ed and simon you know quite a bit just for us being in the same room together at the time and that developed into you know a friendship with simon and with ed and then hot fuzz came around and i got the script for hot fuzz and i thought it was great and i think shawn of the dead's just an incredible film. I think it's a brilliant piece of work on every level and so it was great this opportunity to work with them and to work with Edgar but

in the meantime I got offered two other films and one of them was a really substantial part and I thought you know we can make both work of these but I can't make Hot Fuzz work. This wasn't me being unprofessional even i just thought oh edgar like those guys know loads of comedians and people they've got all mates and they've you know they can easily get someone to jump in and do that part

it's no problem and so that's what i kind of said i said listen i've been offered these two other things and you know it's it's a good thing for me best of luck with it i'm sure you'll find the right person and edgar did what edgar does which was he dug his heels in and it was like absolutely no way are you going anywhere and i remember getting a call from simon saying oh mate you know you know it's all gone to shit you know, working title are talking about suing you for walking off the project. And I just burst out laughing. What? Why? You know, really?

But what it actually did was made me realise a lot about Edgar and how passionate he is about something, an idea. And when he's got that in his head, he won't let it go. And I went, oh, fair enough. You know, I wasn't heartbroken about letting these other things go and in the end hot fuzz is the thing that's endured the most anyway out of any of these potential projects that were around but I've got nothing but admiration for Edgar I love him to bits he comes out for everything he turns

up for everything if you've got a film screening, he's there. If you're in a play, he's there. He comes along and he's one of those people that I love being in the company of. He's a fantastic raconteur, a brilliant artist. I just, I love him so much. So to me, it was just power to him. I just admired him more really for digging in. Yeah, he really assembled a special group of people.

And it was such fun for me because I'm not really part of that world necessarily. I don't do that many things with other people. So it was just a fantastic holiday for me to suddenly be spending a couple of weeks in Wells in Somerset. Yeah. spending a couple of weeks in wells in somerset yeah and we were doing the big scenes with the fate and where i get killed by the um turret it's a great scene and it was really fun the weather was good so we just sort of sitting around i i remember feeling bad for edgar because obviously he had to work he couldn't relax and sit down and just fart about with everyone else. I mean, you just described it then as a holiday and that's what it felt like.

That summer in Wales was amazing. It was like the last great summer or something. It was beautiful. And we were meeting people like yourself, just people were coming and going all the time. I have a funny memory of hanging out in simon peg's trailer and you were flicking through his dvd wallet and um you you were lighted on buffy the vampire slayer and simon had about 100 buffy the vampire slayer dvds and you were like what is this why are you watching buffy the vampire Slayer? Simon had to defend his love of Buffy.

Oh, yeah. Simon had the big trailer, didn't he? And with the telly and all the comfy seats and that and what have you. Yeah. And we were slumming it. But it was fun. You know, it was just a great time. Everyone was on such good form.

It really was a great job to do. Yeah. It was wonderful. But I remember at the end of my time on Hot Fuzz talking to you and asking you what you were up to and you were about to go off and do the Bourne ultimatum weren't you possibly yeah yeah I'm terrible with timelines but probably yeah I think I'd just walking through Soho and I'd bumped into Paul Greengrass and he just said to me, what are you doing later this summer, later this year?

And I went, oh, nothing. And he went, oh, I'll give you a call. And then that was it. I think I felt again with Born, being a part of that experience and working with somebody like Paul Greengrass was amazing. Watching him put the pieces together, working with Matt was amazing on a film like that

because it was such a juggernaut. But I still felt again, I just thought this isn't my calling card. I struggled with that thing of what am I bringing to this character wise? And I just I could think of 10 other actors that could play that role. I think I was always looking for the kind of roles that would make you sort of stand out a little bit, I suppose. Which are the parts you've done that you think of in those terms? I think, Adam, it's something when you bring a piece of yourself to it in some way. Yeah. For me, because I'm not trained as an actor.

All I can bring is the experiences, your imagination and certain experiences. So probably A Room for Romeo Brass the first thing I ever did as an actor Dead Man's Shoes possibly a film I did with Jim Sheridan years ago called In America there's a few I think that I brought something to even when I played a priest in Peaky Blinders I brought some weight to him and recently, the King Viserys that I play in The House of the Dragon, I think that's probably the greatest character I've ever played in my eyes. The story was right. The character was right.

And I'd not long really come off doing a play that we'd done in the West End and on Broadway. And I think because, like I said, I wasn't trained as an actor in any way, I felt that I had some talent, but I thought there were certain areas lacking. And the theatre was a massive education for me. Is that doing The Ferryman? Yeah, yeah. And I think that at least by the time

that we were well into the run on Broadway, I think that, I don't know, something had changed within me. I felt like I'd learned a lot about acting, a lot of the things that I feared about it or was unsure of about it. So by the time I came to play Viserys in House of the Dragon, I just felt like I'd learned a lot of things that I could now put into practice that had given me a lot more tools to work with.

Yeah, it's a great part for you because it does incorporate, as you say, all the things that you're good at. But there's also something that I haven't seen you do before, which is a more mellow and I suppose middle aged, a kind of middle aged desire to make people be decent to each other or treat each other properly or just just that yearning you have as a father for for people to get on you're a father as well right yeah i am i've got three kids yeah how old are they now my boy's 19 and the girls are 16 and 13 so they're all growing up yeah i have a similar spread of children actually similar ages and when they're not getting on it is such a bad feeling. You just feel a that you failed as a father somehow, because you have all these fantasies when you're

when you become a parent, you kind of well, I did anyway, I vaguely imagined us all sitting around like a kind of Richard Curtis family dancing to ska music and just doing jokes and getting on great. And then you have those days as a parent where everyone is just at each other's throats no one's getting on one of them's weird and having a breakdown you don't know what's going to happen to them you just think oh no we've totally fucked this up it's an awful feeling and sometimes you go into viserys mode and you you just want to slam on the table and say come on guys this is this is it. This is the long term. We've got to think of the future. This is family.

This is really important. We've got to get on. And I felt that so much from your portrayal. Yeah, I think he's just sees the nonsense in all the bickering. And from his point of view, like all these people are fighting over this kind of seat and position of power yeah but it's a really corruptible seat that that throne is a haunted chair you know it's a responsibility being a ruler and a king and a peaceful one it takes its toll on you and it takes its toll on him and i think part of my thinking behind him was you you all fight over this thing and you're all craving this power and you're all all this skullduggery is happening but this this thing

destroys people it destroys lives it destroys you know families and kingdoms and so I think that was where he was coming from but as far as your own kids I mean we find that it's like having three there's never all three of them are never in a good place at the same time you know it's like spinning plates and one crashes and you're like why can't they all just be in a great place all at the same time and it's never like that there's always one coming through something and then another one is about to enter something you know exactly right typical i that the expression that I always come back to, which I can't remember who said it to me,

but they said, oh, you're only ever as happy as your unhappiest child. Yeah, that's a true one. It's so true. You're always worrying about one of them. Yeah. And it's such a, it's a terrible feeling. Last night we sat around and watched episode eight of house of the dragon and that is the episode in which your character king viserys dies and that was hardcore oh because my wife

her dad died earlier this year my dad died a few years ago and um dead dad stuff man i mean even even years ago when my dad was hale and hearty it always got to me like a film like remains of the day really shredded me because i knew that that was coming one day that painful feeling of of losing my dad would happen and i just was terrified of it it's deep stuff dead dad stuff and dead parent stuff in general i'm not suggesting it's just fathers and sons was all that stuff going through your head at all or you just focused on the technical business at hand when you're doing no no i can honestly say that you know i put everything into that character and that was that was a lot of days shooting of him lying in that bed and you know it's a strange thing you know people talk about method acting i don't consider myself to be that you know when i've

worked with actors that think they're method actors they just seem to be pretty selfish people or they've misunderstood the method you know and I'm like well that's not what what it's about I like actors I know sometimes you have to get yourself into character but I'm an admirer of actors that can flip the switch a little bit too and there are those heavy days on set where you do have to you know find a corner and prepare yourself mentally for things. That's your job. It's a strange thing, that psychological thing you have. I remember early on there's a drunk scene when I'm in the garden with Matt

and the only way I could perform it was to make myself giddy. So I just became giddy, but I became giddy for the morning. And some people might consider that method acting like I was acting drunk, but I wasn't. I was just giddy and I became giddy for the morning and some people might consider that method acting like I was acting drunk but I wasn't I was just giddy and laughing at everything and oh right you weren't spinning yourself around no I just became in this really silly giddy mindset and which worked you know I had to sort of do that to release my mind a little bit but with the with the bed stuff with

the dying stuff there was a point where we were doing it for so long and i was breathing that way for so long that my oxygen levels went right down and you know you're about to pass out so i had to be taken outside and i'm not some sort of drama queen or anything but you kind of go shit you know we take this for granted this acting thing but you do this stuff with your mind and it starts to have a weird effect on your body it's almost like my mind was telling my body that I was sick and therefore my levels were lowering you know and I was becoming sick doing it it's kind of strange but i i didn't watch episode eight but my wife had watched it and my daughter and they were pretty upset with it and my wife said just watch the end you know years ago

i'd watched my dad die of cancer and he and it just went downhill rapidly from being diagnosed being on death's door you know he became skeletal so rapidly and so when she showed me that end thing and my face came up I just burst into tears because I looked the image of my dad when he was dying the image of him and it was shocking it was really really shocking to me I put so much of my mom's characteristics into this character Viserys but like when I saw that I thought that's my dad and it was terrifying um so it was it was pretty impactful stuff yeah it looked like my dad too I think it probably looks like a lot of people at the end of their lives yeah it was really hardcore actually and to have it to have it be in this fantasy show and also to have

those sort of horror elements of the makeup as well yeah put a strange nightmarish twist on the whole thing because usually you see depictions of people at the end of their lives in sort of straightforward dramas it's generally not considered a massive crowd-pleasing type of scene to include in a blockbuster there's not too many of them in the marvel movies for example but um to have this really hardcore emotional material in the game of thrones universe really wrong-footed me i was quite discombobulated by the end of it just to go super trivial for a second after talking about all this heavy stuff um how did they make you all skeletal and skinny is that all cg or or yeah i had a finish point for viserys with the kind of hunched back and you know the deterioration

the frailty of his body and those heavy clothes on him and things like that. That was something that we mapped out early. But how far visually he kind of degenerated, it was still up in the air a little bit. And not even I knew that it was going to go that far until about halfway through filming. So the idea of me losing weight to play that part and get that emaciated. It just wasn't possible. We were shooting so out of story order that we could be shooting episode two one day

and episode four the next, sometimes two separate episodes in one day. So there's no way that I could map this journey to his disintegration or anything like that or start from that and build upwards so we had to get around it with with cgi and then i had a body double who was this really thin guy and he was one of the extras i think they pulled out and i'd act the scene out and then they'd bring him in to just mirror what my movements were so they had a reference like

somebody with a very thin body doing it so you know it's a mixture of all that and my only thing was like this is this is a performance right this is a character we're not going to lose that and and thankfully we didn't it was pretty subtle actually it was shocking but it was subtle were you a big game of thrones uh from day one no no i got sent the original script for an episode or two of the first ever Game of Thrones years ago. And at the time it was just like, have a read of it and see what you think,

who you like in it. And I'm not a fantastic reader, particularly if it's complicated and there's lots of characters. And I couldn't really understand it. I couldn't really understand it. I couldn't get my head around the names and who people were. Join the club.

But I spoke to my agents at the time and I said, what's this thing actually about? And he explained it in a way like, he goes, oh, you know, it's about kingdoms and there's this chair and, you know, there's dragons and there's lots of like, you know, sex and I just went, oh, I don't know if I can be arsed to, you know, get into that.

I felt the same way as a viewer. And so I had the box set set in my collection for ages of the first season. And Sean Bean staring down at me and I'm like, I'll put that on one day. And I just never got round to it. And then this weird synchronicity happened where the lockdowns happened and we were going through that first wave of it and running out of things to watch.

And we just started watching it. Got about three seasons into it. And I was in Ireland doing an indie film and then I got the call about it. And they want to talk to you about this King Viserys and are you a fan of Game of Thrones and I'm like well that's weird I'm watching it now and we're really getting into it um so I wasn't totally bullshitting the director when I said I'm a fan and I've seen it but we did watch it all and I really I loved it I thought it was great I thought

some of it was some of the best television I'd ever seen how is it being part of such a huge franchise now doing the circuit are you gonna one day go to you know like comic-con or whatever and sit there and we did that in the summer we went to comic-con yeah and i found it a really strange experience because i was you know you're in a hall and there's a few thousand people there yeah and you're on this panel and they took about 10 of us cast but really the people in the audience didn't have a clue who anybody was except for matt you know because he's obviously hugely popular through doctor who and the crown and things like that so you sit in there and you're talking about a show that nobody's seen nobody Nobody has a clue what you're doing it. They don't know anything about it.

There was a lot of really odd, weird silences in between questions. And I was starting to get more uncomfortable. And then by the end of it, I'm getting... And I have this condition, Erlen syndrome, that's about light sensitivity. And if I don't have my lenses on, I start to get these ADHD symptoms

and things that I twitch and I can't look at people in the eye and all this stuff. And I thought these things usually go quite quickly. You know, when you sit up there, they kind of speed along and before you know it, it's done. But this thing seemed to last for about three hours

and I was just sort of slowly dying. But the fans have mostly been really, really kind about it. And I did want them to be happy with it. You know, I'm not one of these guys, oh, fuck them. You know, who cares what they think, man? I'm like, no, no, I want to do a good job. I want them to think, wow, that's amazing. What a great job.

I wanted to honour the character and honour the world. And I didn't see anything wrong with that. Yeah. I mean, you look sort of relaxed. I looked at a few of the interviews you did around the show and you're appearing on American talk shows and things like that. And you look comfortable. I mean, do you find those sorts of things OK or are they mortifying? No, that's the best acting I ever do that's my best acting adam and it's not sort of fakery but i did james corden's chat show and of all the ones out there that was the probably the best one to do first because i met james a few times over the years yeah but

all the while i i just felt like i was having an out-of-body experience and I look very relaxed on them but inside there's so much nervousness and inner turmoil going on the part of your brain's going why did I even say I would do this what am I doing here why am I here and you have to sort of say

you know why you're here you're here to promote the show and you're also here for reasons of vanity let's not sort of lie. And you're also here for reasons of vanity. Let's not sort of lie about it. You're playing this character. And, you know, part of me wanted to go, I don't look like that. That's a performance.

That's a transformation. And I want you to see what I actually look like. Yeah. I've got both eyes. There isn't a hole in my cheek. But you know what I mean? And that's probably slightly vain in a way i don't i don't know i i guess it is but i think i wanted people to know that's a performance and i want you to know the difference and i want you to know the the work that i put into that yeah but you're not wrestling with all of that oddness to the extent that you're kind of consumed by self-loat am very self-deprecating and I'm very I am incredibly insecure about acting.

And where does that come from? Is that because you feel like you didn't learn the craft early on and you didn't have that training that some actors have? Yeah, I think there's definitely an element of imposter syndrome in there. And I think, you know, without going too far. Go too far. Go ahead. Should we go too far? I just think that throughout my life since I was a little kid, I've never had much of a sense of self-worth. And I think I've always looked to the exterior world for approval in some way. I remember like being appraised for performing like

even when I was a teenager I did a play at school I was it changed the school's view of me the faculty the students everybody their opinion of me changed overnight just because I'd performed in a play and I thought god this is powerful but you can lose yourself to that a little bit because that's where you start to seek approval. And there's no interior approval or confidence. You're just always sort of looking for that approval elsewhere. All my life, I was just looking for someone to say, you're a good boy. Because I was a kid. I come from a family.

We had a reputation. My father had the reputation mainly. And as a little kid, I wasn't allowed to hang around with other kids. I had doors shut in my face and things like that. And I was judged by people just because of my father's reputation. And his reputation was for being a sort of hard drinking. He was a hard drinking brawler. You know, he was an Irish immigrant and, you know, he'd been in and out of prison for most of my early life and and for things like just getting in fights and stuff was it for violence yeah mainly but you know once you get a reputation that's it and as a result of that us as kids suffered and you know that was

obviously very unfair so I think I just spent my life kind of saying but but I'm not like that when you've already been judged by teachers and things before you've even got to their class I mean I was playing in the playground once and a teacher got older me and put me up against the wall and I was about nine years old and I was just playing with my friends in the playground and he went you're not going to give me any trouble next year are you and I went no I'm like I look at what the fuck? I want to knock him out, you know? But like, what did I do to deserve that? I hadn't done anything. What were you, cheeky or were you?

I became cheeky. I became, I became ignorant, belligerent because an incident happened with me at school where there was a girl in the school and she had a disfigurement. And she was a lovely girl. She was very quiet and no one ever hassled her. I remember in the schoolyard one day there was two kids and they were bullying her. Just calling her stuff.

And these were kids from my street. So I went over and I went, hey, what are you doing? And I stood here and I said, leave her alone and did the right thing. And they walked away. And I said, are you all right? You know? And it's like, yeah. And I go and I sit in my next lesson. And then 10 minutes in, there was a knock on the door. And it was like, you know, Patrick Conn said, I had to see the headmaster. So I went in and this girl's friend was stood there behind the headmaster's desk and a part of me glowed and I went I know what this is about this is the time that this guy is going to congratulate me for doing the right thing and sticking up for this girl's friend but he didn't he said to me someone's been a bully haven't they and I went yes yes they have sir

yes someone's been picking on people less fortunate than them and I went yes yes they have sir thinking here it comes and you stood up for him didn't you you know and but it didn't and he went that's someone is you isn't it and I went no no no and no it wasn me. And I looked at this girl and I said, no, no, I stood up for it, didn't I? Bend over. And he and he punished me in front of this girl who stood there silently and said nothing while I got punished. And I think that was a massive point. And a young kid's life at that age, a part of me just went, this is what the world's like, isn't it? Oh, I get this fucking game now. And then a little thing changed in my little mind and I went, fuck you. Fuck all of you. And so I stopped reading. I stopped creative writing. I stopped singing.

I'd sing out of tune on purpose and assembly at the top of my voice just to fuck everybody off. And I went, if this is what it's like, then I'm going to be the biggest pain in the fucking hole you've ever come across did you ever say to the girl who accused you of being the bully like what's going on did you get the wrong end of the stick or are you lying or what no I would never ever as a kid have followed that line of investigation I wasn't that kind of kid I didn't

have a reasonable semi-adult mind i just became the victim in that moment okay and that's how i interpreted it you know so i think that long story just comes back to this idea of being misunderstood and the only way that i got any appraisal was through performance the power of performance but of course that brings with it massive criticism that I'm just not emotionally equipped to deal with. I've ended friendships with people because they've gone out their way to email me bad reviews. Oh, my God. That's what my mum used to do. And I'm like, what part of you thinks I need to see this? I'm not an idiot. I think sometimes people don't realise that it's a bad review they just

go oh look someone's writing about you well done you're like have you read this they've mentioned your name in the paper exactly say i'm shit but i guess that's the thing isn't it if part of the training perhaps you receive as an actor if you train, is to enable you to make that separation, to not identify yourself entirely with the work that you do. So that if you do receive criticism, you're able just to say, OK, well, that's a technical note and I'll either consider it or not. But it's not a strike against you as a person. Yeah, and that's where I think I take it. It's personal work. And I think I invest too much of myself in it.

And I don't have that ability to just separate myself from it because I am the work in many ways. And so it's tempting as well to see some of the performances you give, particularly very intense characters and very intense moments. that you are inhabiting a world of someone who has the kind of control and the power that maybe you felt you never had, that you would have liked to have had, you know, that guy in dead man's shoes when he confronts Gary Stretch's character. Yeah. And he's pointing at the palm of his hand and saying, you're there. It's so thrilling to watch because it's what everyone wishes they could feel in the face of the unfairness and the injustice of so much of life. You just wish you could respond that way.

And Gary Stretch's character is saying, you're not scared of me, are you? And your character's just saying, nope. And no. you and your character's just saying nope and no and the the yearning that so many of us have to not feel that fear to not feel intimidated and to feel on top of a horrible situation in the face of people like that is incredibly cathartic yeah i think it is adam yeah i think that's a really good point i think that that idea of control is something that's really poignant. I find that sometimes you've become a character and you don't want to go back to life in a strange way.

Like I did a film called Journeyman where I played a brain damaged boxer and I was being cared for all the time and looked after and nurtured. And I'm going, oh, this is quite nice, actually. This isn't a bad state to be in. In real life, it would be a horrific state to be in. But as an actor, you're kind of going,

I kind of like this world that I've created. I don't have to deal with anything in this world. And like the bullies at the fence, I've been in altercations where I've walked away and you get down the road or you're a day later and you go, and I should have fucking said that. And it comes to you days later. But you're right day later and you go and i should have fucking said that and it comes to you days later yeah but you're right he he says that in the moment and there is that idea of control

and it's all the things you wish you could say in those situations but you but you can't yeah um i think for me for a long time it was about escape you know escape from reality whether you're doing a play or you're doing a gig part of you just for that little bit of time and this isn't escaping your wife and your children and the things that you love it's just escaping how fucking difficult the world can be and how hard life can be sometimes yeah presumably interviewers have asked you before about to what extent that pent-up anger that you portray very well in some characters and in some performances is connected with you and we've sort of been talking about that a little bit but does that question irritate you do you think it's ridiculous ask because, to put this in context, I was traumatized by an interview I did with Michael Shannon, the actor. And in my mind, he specialized in being brilliant at these roles where he's playing a guy who's very repressed, very tightly wound, sitting on a lot of anger. And at some point, usually, especially in Boardwalk Empire, his character just sort of explodes in real ugly violence and cruelty.

And I was doing this interview with Michael Shannon in the Apple store. And I just wanted to ask, like, where do you go to to to tap into that? And to what degree is that a facet of your own personality can't remember exactly the words i used but he hated the question he was just like that's your question he didn't get it at all why i wonder why i don't know is the answer but maybe he felt like duh it's acting obviously i'm not like that but i just thought okay yeah i get that it's acting and i get that you're pretending this is the weird thing about acting for me is that is that it's too easy to dance around it and say it's all just pretending but the the really good

acting taps into something really real that's why it's compelling to see someone on screen doing an amazing performance because you're thinking yeah that's exactly what that feeling is like and I felt that way or that rings totally true yeah I'm an imitator I'm a great masker you know and I've always been an imitator since I was a little kid and I think I learned through my father how to imitate anger and he was very volatile in a way now don't get me wrong we weren't dished out beatings every minute of every day it wasn't like that but he had no sort of limiter so if I fell over and cut my knee he'd become enraged by the fact that you'd hurt yourself because ultimately he's probably feeling like, you know, my son's hurt himself and I'm upset, but I don't know how to articulate it.

So he'd kind of leap out of the chair and become 10 foot tall and go, for fuck's sake, what were you doing on that fucking thing? You know, and off he'd go, bang. It wasn't chastising you. He was upset because you were hurt. But that was his reaction to things so in me this skill i get as an actor of being able to just turn it like that comes from seeing somebody who was able to do that in in their own life you know if a horse lost a race you know the fucking paper went flying the pen went flying you know across the room and for fucking the fucking

television went over and all that it's not a great environment yeah respect but i was able to sort of take that and use it how was your mother with all of that i mean you know as they say in those days mum was mum did her best people like my mother found their sense of pride in how smart the kid looked the fact that there were three meals on the table every day it was a very working class environment but I think also

my mum suffered a lot with her nerves and her confidence and my dad didn't out that at all but she was a very loving woman she got very sick when I was sort of in my late teens early 20s that was a very very slow decline but it was just working class life it was your life and you had to lump it you know yeah and I think that that really was it Did she get to see you doing well and succeeding as an actor? No, she couldn't really see at that time.

So she couldn't really see what I'd done. What was wrong with her, if you don't mind me asking? She had diabetes and, you know, in the end she was blind. She lost her legs and it was a tragic story. It's like somebody that you kind of wanted to help, but they didn't want your help in a way. And I think that that also went into this character. I struggle with this thing about those things being crass,

but like using these people that you love as reference, but I love them and they made such an impact on my life. The only way that I can honour them and my feelings about them and feeling like sometimes a failure as a son, like I didn't do enough. I think the only way I can sort of square it is to honour them somehow in a song or in a performance. I don't think it's crass if it's well done, if there's a lot of heart in it. You can sort of sniff when people are just recycling experiences in a cheap way, I think.

And if it's not done cheaply, then it's really valuable, I think, to see those portrayals because they make people feel less alone because so many of those things have happened in one form or another to people. And when they see it sincerely portrayed, it's comforting and interesting. I think a lot of people feel like a failure, either as a parent or a child, or people can relate to that big style. I think so, Adam. And I agree with you about the experience. I know a lot of what this is about

is supposed to be entertaining, but I do think it's about sharing experiences. And I do think on some level, it's about saying to people, you're not on your own, you know? And I think that's what storytelling means to me and that's what acting means to me it's pointless if it didn't want to reach people with it you just do in your bedroom to in front of the mirror you know perform Shakespeare on your own

you also are in the enviable position of being musically talented and so you're able to express yourself in that way as well and your band riding the low are still together that's really impressive like is it what part does that play in your life then is that still fun are you still able to do that on a kind of stop start basis and the rest of the band are okay with it how does it work well i'm doing it all the time never stop writing songs or working on it obviously when i'm away working there's other things to do like you know i had to sort out the album release this year always organizing shows i come off thrones and we did the festival run and did glastonbury and a few other dates here and there that's probably as well why i kind of stopped writing films in a way.

There's just something you can say in a song that's so immediate that if you try to put it into a film, just the toil of scripts and rewrites and going to people and trying to get finance and getting it off the ground, it's so tiring. And then after that's done, you make a film and no one wants it. the ground and it's so tiring and then after that's done you make a film and no one wants it no festivals want it nobody wants to see it which happened with my last film and I went I don't know if I can be asked to go through that process when you know writing songs gives me

so much like joy and fulfillment I don't see the point in going through all that rigmarole if it's creative satisfaction you want well i enjoy it there's no expectation on it it's just something that we all enjoy doing and so there's no kind of anxiety or pressure around it but it's going really great are you still a massive guided by voices, mate, I've got Bob on my arm. I've got a tattoo of Bob on my arm. I don't think there's a day goes by that I don't listen to Guided By Voices. Robert Pollard literally changed my head profoundly.

I think he's one of the greatest songwriters that ever lived. And his body of work in the last five years, it's not just this idea that he has this massive output yeah it's the fact that the albums themselves are fantastic and he's still a great great songwriter how did you get into them so you would have been getting into them post hot fuzz right because then in the early 2000s i think you sent me some cds of robert pollard stuff and gbV I got into him before then because I think my daughter was born around 2005 and I was definitely into them around that

time okay and it was a weird one with Guided by Voices because a friend had put a few tracks on mixtapes over the years and you know I thought they were fine you know I wasn't jumping around about them and basically I just kept playing it and something happened I was just brushing my teeth and Not Behind The Fighter Jet came on and all of a sudden the lyrics just stood up and I just couldn't stop playing

it and then that was it I was a fanatic from that moment on What was that song? Not Behind The Fighter Jet from Maggie Earwig just the words fanatic from that moment on what was that song not behind the fighter jet from maggie a wig just the words he was using militant babies came to me told me don't be afraid to try phenomenal stunt kids in the street popping out of a black ghost pie the fearless ones cracked up jack and jill are down there in the bunker still. You look like a sniper anyway. I'm like, what the fuck did this guy, what?

And that was it. I'm like, there's no rules anymore. There's no rules. It's an open field, man. He's great, isn't he? Because it's not, it doesn't feel forced. Those kind of weird lyrics. Like, I love Beck, right right i think he's absolutely terrific i've always loved his stuff so much but every now and again especially in the early days

some of his kind of crazy non-sequitur cut up lyrics i just felt like i don't know it sounds like he's trying a little bit too hard here. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But you never get that with Robert Pollard. No, I think I get a sense from Bob that it's just a stream of consciousness, that it just flows from him. Okay, here's an actual question I wrote down. Have you ever compared notes about being a film actor in a group with other film actors in groups?

Never, never have, no. because i don't even like that association so it's so odd that i go no no no no that's not what this is about one of the unfortunate things that you have to fight is that you know people are a bit suspicious because oh an actor's got a band and it was like i was playing music you know since i was like 15 years old it's not nothing new but yeah that judgment comes forward and i don't know why i'm just very much like if it's good it's good maybe there's been lots of bad examples of actors who've uh fancied themselves as rock stars but if anyone's got any doubts come to a show yeah good idea we'll soon put your fucking right but you've never you've never blown up in an interview

billy bob thornton style did you ever see that interview he did yeah yeah i love billy bob i don't know what that's about my my thing with that is like what do you expect i mean i know you've made a country album and probably poured his heart and soul into it but you can't go out there expecting people to take you seriously you can't expect anything from anybody i do interviews now i do stuff for six music and riding the low i've got a new single and it's like so dead man's shoes and you go i'm just gonna have to roll with it because that's far greater than out there in the consciousness than riding the low is and i don't expect people to not bring it up so yeah no i haven't i haven't if it was six albums down the line and selling out wembley stadium then i'll probably go come on mate change the fucking record but yeah

for people who don't know what i'm talking about there was an interview that billy bob thornton did on a channel called q and uh he was being interviewed by a can called Q and he was being interviewed by a Canadian journalist and he was there with his band the Box Cutters and I think before the interview he'd seen on the computer that they were going to introduce him as Oscar winning actor Billy Bob Thornton with his bandmates from the Box Cutters and he said actually can you not put that can you just kind of give us equal billing going into the interview right okay that makes sense and they and they didn't they just sort of stuck to positioning him as billy bob thornton oscar winning actor so then he just got all bent out of shape and started refusing to answer questions

and giving him the silent treatment the interview interviewer, and it got really awkward. Yeah. I can understand him in a way. I understand that. But, like, you know, we've had situations where we're doing a gig and it's got on the poster Paddy Considine from Dead Man's Shoes and his band, and we have made a call and gone, can you change that?

Yeah. And just put right in the light. But you've got to understand from their point of view as well they're probably some pub in derby and they're going well if we put your name on it we might get five more people and sell 10 more that's the thing isn't it yeah reminds you of your place in the universe i went out to new york this must have been about 10 years ago now or something and i had it in my head that i was just gonna do a few stand-up shows and it would be great and yeah probably be quite a bit of a buzz after I did that and of course you're hit with the reality of no one knows who you are and they're absolutely tiny venues with tiny audiences one of

the venues I did had one person there and he was from Manchester. And outside this pub in the village, I did a show one night and it was a really nice little venue. But out on the chalkboard outside, it just said Adam Buxton from Hot Fuzz. And I thought, wow, I'm really not a big part of Hot Fuzz, but okay, I get it. That's the only way they can kind of connect me to the wider world. Otherwise, what the fuck are they going to say? You know, Adam Buxton from the Adam and Joe show,

brackets, the Adam and Joe show was a homemade program in the- Put your Wikipedia page on there. Yeah, I try not to get too uptight about it, you know, I just get on with it. But the nice thing is that people do have come along to see the band because I'm in it. And then those people have become fans of the band

and follow the band and follow the other members. And, you know, and they get it and they've got over that idea, the fact that I'm stood there on the stage in front of them and they come to watch us as a band and that's really great. So, and they get it, they understand. As a music fan, was it fun doing 24-hour party people and working in that atmosphere? You played Rob Gretton in that film.

Yeah. Who was, he was the manager of Joy Division, is that right? Or was he a label boss? Yeah uh he was the manager of joy division is that right or was he a label boss yeah he had a label um and he was part of factory right and he was the manager of joy division and then new order yeah i mean i i loved working on that it was amazing i met i met simon on that i met peg on that oh yeah and i enjoyed doing it it was one of those special projects where you know people just emerged from the scene in Manchester and started hanging around and giving us research materials.

And I was sitting with members of a certain ratio and, you know, talking to them about Rob, dressed as my version of Rob and freaking them out. And it was a great experience. So working with a lot of people, I really admired on it. Steve Coogan, obviously it was Tony and John, Tim. There were so many. Andy Serkis, Sean Harris.

I mean, God, it was a massive cast of people. But I really enjoyed making it. And it was one of those where strange things were happening. They recreated the Hacienda. And us as characters gravitated towards the actual spots where the real people would hang out just by accident which i thought was really hard and i remember like seeing rob's wife leslie gretton stood in this hacienda set and i was stood and i looked over at her and i would never sort of look at her with Rob's glasses on because that was a big thing about Rob was his big glasses and I took them off the minute I saw her because

you thought it would be weird to be pretending to be her I thought it'd be weird to be pretending to be her late husband right okay in this environment and and I says oh I take my glasses off and she said I'm glad you I'm glad you did that and we stood talking and she goes you know this is the spot where me and Rob used to stand? And I went, oh God. And it was like, oh, and that's where the, you know, Happy Mondays used to hang out. And everybody was in their places.

It was really sort of surreal and supernatural. And Tony Wilson didn't come anywhere near me on that set. And to the point where I'm thinking what have I fucking done to him you know like he's talking to everyone else he wouldn't come near me and I think it was his son who sort of said to me well you know why don't you because you look like Rob Gretton and he couldn't be that near to me or around me because I looked so much, you know, my interpretation of Rob and it was too,

probably a bit too much for him at the time. So, yeah, but it was, it was a very, very interesting shoot. I really liked that film. You weren't around on the days that people like Marky Smith or Howard

DeVoto did scenes, were you? Gutted. Absolutely gutted that I never got to meet either of them. I got to meet New Order and I've met Stephen and Gillian a few times now. I met Barney once. Peter was really, really nice. He was a really nice guy. He was only brief, but I liked meeting Hooky.

But no, I missed Mark. I'd have loved to have met him. And in his autobiography, he spoke about Dead Man's Shoes in it as well. Did he? What did he say? Well, I can't remember the exact thing, but he was just talking about what a good interpretation it was of kind of, you know, Northern life and those kind of low life kind of characters

and that was a great compliment going wow you know the fact that he'd even seen it and yeah you know maybe i could approach him in the pub and say hello mark but maybe not i don't know i think he was probably a bit of a pussycat underneath it all. Yeah, I think so too. But there was a lot of stuff you had to get through to find that pussycat. Yeah. This is an advert for Squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success.

The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics, and I don't want to stop. And I'd like to access your members area and spend in your shop. These are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with Squarespace. Just visit squarespace.com slash buxton for a free trial

and when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch, use the offer code BUXTON to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face with Squarespace. Yes. Continue. Hey, welcome back, podcats. I was talking to Paddy Considine there, and I'm very grateful to Paddy for giving up his time to waffle with me. In the podcast notes today, you will find a link to a Spotify playlist

that Paddy put together of some of his favourite tracks from recent Guided by Voices albums. So this is a legendary American indie band who were together in the 90s and early 2000s but then broke up for quite a few years, like over a decade. Robert Pollard was doing his own stuff. But then he got the band back together. And I think that was in the early 2010s perhaps I'm not an expert

apologies if I'm getting this wrong but this whole second phase of their career has been as far as the fans are concerned just as amazing as the first part Like they are just firing on all cylinders still. And cranking out albums at an incredible rate. So yeah, Paddy's Spotify playlist is Guided by Voices Mark II. Just a few tracks from some of their recent records. But I listened to that the other night with a glass of jazzy wine when everyone had gone to bed. And I had a pretty wonderful time. the other night with a glass of jazzy wine when everyone had gone to bed. And I had a pretty wonderful time.

What else have we got in the links? Oh yeah, there's this short film that Chris Morris made starring Paddy Considine back in 2002, which is called My Wrongs 8245- 8249 and 117 about a bloke who can suddenly hear his dog talking to him that's just on youtube i found that hadn't seen that for a while there's a link to billy bob thornton on qtv getting upset i think i've probably linked to that clip, well, at least once before. And then there's a link to Billy Bob Thornton explaining why he got upset. There is also a link to the World of Wonder website, World of Wonder being the production company that produced the Adam and Joe show back in the day, run by Fenton Bailey and Randy Barbato.

Fenton was a guest on this podcast. And you can hear me and Fenton chatting about the old days of the Adam and Joe show on that, as well as some of the other amazing shows that World of Wonder have been responsible for over the years, including RuPaul's Drag Race. Fenton has now written a book called Screen Age, How TV Shaped Our Reality, from Tammy Faye, who World of Wonder made a show about, to RuPaul's Drag Race. I'm quoting now from the blurb on the World of Wonder website. I'm quoting now from the blurb on the World of Wonder website This riotous tale of pop culture charts the story of how World of Wonder

pioneered the revolutionary genre of reality TV whilst supporting and ushering queer voices into the mainstream Fenton Bailey says, Screen Age is my love letter to television It's a personal odyssey and a cultural journey RuPaul has said, everything I learned, I learned through television. And thanks to television, I saw who I was and found my tribe. Screen age is also about the big impact of the small screen on all our lives. It has made the invisible visible, especially outsiders and those on the margins.

Me and Joe get a couple of mentions in there. It talks about the early days of the Adam and Joe show and some of the other programs that inspired it. It's a must for pop culture vultures who also like to pick at the bones of social criticism. No, that's no good. This is why I don't do book jacket quotes. Anyway, Screen Age by Fenton Bailey. Check it out. Link in the description.

That's it for today. Thanks very much to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support. Thanks to Becca Bryers for her conversation editing on this episode. Thanks, Becca. Thanks to Helen Green. She does the beautiful artwork for this podcast. Thanks to ACAST and all who work there

for helping keep the show on the road. But thanks most especially to you. You downloaded this. You listened right to the end. All the stuff that I just waffled about. Guided by Voices, Fenton Bailey, all this esoterica. You are just munching on it. And you're saying, thanks, Buckles.

I loved it. Can I have some more? And I appreciate that. Not all of you are saying that. I've got a couple of messages from you in the week along with the um other christmasy messages that you have been sending in but thanks very much to everyone who's sent in stuff for the christmas special with joe which i will be recording in a couple of days as I speak. Got some good egg corns and made up jokes and there's still time to contribute a few more bits and pieces. Okay, till the next

time we're together, go carefully out there. And if it makes a difference, I love you. Rosie's looking at me and her ears are going up. I love you too, dog. Quick hug? Come on. Good to see you. Bye! Bye. Please like and subscribe. Thank you.