THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.202 - LOUIS THEROUX @ LONDON PODCAST FESTIVAL, 2022

Episode Date: June 25, 2023

Adam talks with old friend Louis Theroux in front of a live audience at the London Podcast Festival, King's Place, on 15th September, 2022. There's talk about the death of Queen Elizabeth, unexplained phenomena, dealing with conspiracy theorists, bad tempered radio exchanges with Joe Cornish and Adam attempts to emulate Louis' recent rap success.And in the outro Adam also tells listeners what he's been up to recently in a Letter From Norfolk.THIS EPISODE CONTAINS STRONG LANGUAGE!Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and conversation editing.Podcast artwork by Helen Green https://helengreenillustration.com/RELATED LINKSBEST OF BUG @ BRIGHTON DOME, Friday 28th July, 2023, 19.30, in aid of WILD VISIONIDLER FESTIVAL TICKETS - 7th-9th July 2023HOW TO UPLOAD LOCAL MUSIC TO SPOTIFYCRINGE - CONTRAPOINTS - 2020 (YOUTUBE)LONDON PODCAST FESTIVAL, KING'S PLACE 2023LOUIS LINKSNYT TIMES HOW LOUIS THEROUX BECAME A JIGGLE JIGGLE SENSATION - 2022 (NY TIMES)LOUIS' ORIGINAL RAP BATTLE (WEIRD WEEKENDS) - 2000 (YOUTUBE)JASON DERULO X DUKE&JONES X LOUIS THEROUS X AMELIA DIMZ - JIGGLE JIGGLE (OFFICIAL VIDEO) Directed by Stanley Brock - 2022 (YOUTUBE) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey Rosie, should we go for a walk? It's a lovely sunny day. No, it's boiling out there. I'm going to stay on the cool floor in the shady house. All right, okay. Well, I've got to go and do the intro for this podcast. You sure you won't come? Come on. No way, thank you. In fact, I think I'll roll over and you can give me a scritch scratch. All right, okay. I'll give you a scritch scratch. Give me a scritch scratch.

All right, okay. I'll give you a scritch scratch. And I will see you... later. I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buxton, I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. And I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

Hey, how you doing, podcats? It's Adam Buxton here, and I'm reporting to you from a crunchy farm track in the east of England, Norfolk County. As I record this, it is coming up to the end of June 2023. It's Glastonbury weekend and it's going to be a scorcher as far as I can tell. It's very hot here in Norfolk. Too hot for dog. It's getting more and more difficult to pick the right moment for a walk with Rosie these days she's doing well overall but she's 11 now and those days when just the sound of me putting on my walking boots would be enough for her to be zipping down the stairs and getting ready to scamper along with me through the fields are gone. Now, the best time to go for a walk with Rosie is first thing in the morning when it's quite cool. Anyway, today I mistimed it, so I'm on my own. And it is blazing. I've got my t-shirt.

I've got my gym shorts on. And my walking boots. It's a very attractive look. Anyway, how are you doing, podcats? I hope you're okay and not overheating, either physically or emotionally. I told you I might put out a bonus episode before the podcast starts up again properly in September and here it is. But before we get going, I just want to tell you very quickly about a live show that I recently agreed to do at the Brighton Dome at the end of July, Friday the 28th of July of this year, 2023,

starting at 7.30pm. It's a Best of Bug show, and it will feature a selection of some of the amazing and creative music videos from the last few years that we have shown at Bug, at the BFI South Bank, as well as other nonsense from my laptop. at the BFI South Bank, as well as other nonsense from my laptop. And all the proceeds from this show will be going to support Wild Vision,

an excellent organisation that provides exciting sensory opportunities for visually impaired children. So it's a great cause, and it would be wonderful if you could come along and help support. Hello, addendum. I got a message from someone pointing out that vision impaired is the term preferred over visually impaired. So now I know. Thank you. The show I'll be doing in Brighton, which will have BSL, captioning, audio description, and a touch tour will contain a lot of the same material

as the Best of Bug show i did in march this year at the just for laughs festival in london as well as the best of bug shows that i did last year in the brighton comedy festival and blue dot so if you weren't able to see those other shows or maybe you fancy coming along again and seeing the one or two new bits and pieces then book your tickets via the link in the description of today's podcast or search for best of bug brighton dome and i will look forward to seeing you for what i hope will be an excellent presentation with all proceeds going to a wonderful cause on friday the 28th of july at the beautiful Brighton Dome. I'll try and hang around after the show as long as I'm able.

If you want to come and say hello or get me to sign something or get a photo or tell me what you thought of the Tom Hanks episode, which a lot of people have been doing. Wide spectrum of opinions on that one. But right now, let me tell you very quickly about podcast episode number 202, which features a rambly conversation

with my old friend, friend of the podcast, and now, as of this month, June 2023, Spotify exclusive podcaster, Louis Theroux. The conversation you're about to hear was recorded face-to-face, on stage in front of an audience at the King's Place venue in London during the podcast festival last year in September 2022. It was a fun night, much stupid waffle, laughter, some great rapping from Louis and from me. All this despite the fact that it was a sad time back then because just a week before

Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II had died and well I guess maybe that's part of the reason I thought I should wait a little bit before putting the conversation out. Apart from Queen Chat, perhaps you should be aware that the episode contains unusually strong language. Two C words. My fault. I apologise. Something about being live on stage. I'll be back at the end for a little bit more waffle but right now with louis theroux live at the london podcast festival 2022 here we go ramble chat let's have a ramble chat we'll focus first on this then concentrate on that

come on let's chew theat And have a ramble chat Put on your conversation coat And find your talking hat La, la, la, la, la, la La, la, la, la, la, la La, la, la, la, la, la, la La, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, Queen times, obviously. And I am going to make some offensive comments

at the very top of the podcast. No, I'm not, of course. I'm too weedy for that. Instead, I'm going to join in with all those folks who have been telling inspiring and moving stories

about the late Queen, or Lara. And because I watched Theresa May do that story in the House of Commons, and she absolutely smashed that cheese, the cheese story. Holy shit. I remember one picnic at Balmoral which was taking place in one of the bosses on the estate. The hampers came from the castle and we all mucked in to put the food and drink out on the table.

I picked up some cheese, put it on a plate and was transferring it to the table. The cheese fell on the floor. I had a split second decision to make. gwneud penderfyniad ar y plentyn. Fe wnes i ddod i fyny'r gwaelod, rhoi'r gwaelod ar y plat a'i roi ar y removed. I'd been watched very carefully by Her Majesty the Queen. I looked at her. She looked at me. And she just

smiled. And the cheese remained on the table. And I thought, well, if Teresa can get that kind of response from the cheese story, then I'm going to wheel out my time that I met the queen. Well, when I say met, what I really mean is I saw her. She was in a coach, and it was the official state opening of Parliament,

and it was 1983. And I saw her. I was at school nearby, Westminster School for Arrogant Young Men. And we had to go out because we were, I guess, at Westminster, you're sort of part of the royal family in a way. And so we had to go out and watch the Queen arrive to open Parliament. And it was exciting.

And I didn't wave, but I think if I had waved, she would have waved back. That's the story. And that's why I'm going to miss that woman. I think it's time we got our guest on. What do you think? Ladies and gentlemen, Louis Theroux.

Hey. Have a seat, Lou. One, two, one, two. How's it going? Good. Nice to be here. Listening to you and your intro, I was reminded that I, too, have an anecdote that relates to the Queen.

Was it 1977, the Silver Jubilee? Yeah. And at the primary school I went to in South London, we all got mugs. That's the story. That is a good one. Yeah. Do you remember that? That was a big thing though in the... 77?

77, yeah. Did you get a mug? Was it 77 or 76? 77. 77, right, because that was a mark? Was it 77 or 76? 77. 77, right, because that was the pistols on the boat. I love that you mark it through the... You're getting it the wrong way around, man. I think it was... Queen, then pistols.

Are you sure it was 77? I thought it was 76. Was it 77? Should we do a vote? 76? No. There we go. But there was something else special about 76.

There was the rhyme. In 1976. She pulled down her nicks. She licked her bum and said yum yum. Jeez. It was 1976. We could both get cancelled. I didn't say who pulled down their nicks.

BBC presenter laughs along. Oh, yes. As edgy comedian. Insults recently deceased queen. I heard from a BBC insider who will remain nameless and is not you, but I heard from someone that it is absolute pandemonium inside the big British castle at the moment with people getting reprimanded left, right and centre

for saying the wrong thing about the Queen. I don't doubt that it would be. Were you listening to the radio or watching TV when the news broke? Because I was and it was PM on Radio 4 and Evan Davis was tasked with a momentous job of announcing to the nation that the Queen had died. And I don't think I was imagining it. His voice was trembling. Yeah.

And it was hard to tell whether it was grief or just panic. The panic over the responsibility that he might get momentary Tourette's and say something offensive. You know? Yeah. I mean, it's a bit like you can walk along a path normally fine but if you know that there's a 2,000 mile drop either side suddenly it disables your faculties it felt like that it felt like he was having a major wobble moment I wouldn't like to be in that position even though they've been rehearsing that for years and years now right oh my god they got all their graphic packages and everything ready to go.

So, in a way, it must have been, like, exhilarating plus sad. Mainly sad. Sadzilarating. That's sort of what it's like, isn't it? When something very momentous happens that is focused around someone you didn't know personally, but it feels historic, and also it chimes with various aspects of your own life. You know, like everyone's lost someone they love very much,

and old people, you know, everyone's lost an oldie. What do you call old people these days, Mr BBC? Old people? What about if you're talking about someone who is maybe in their 80s, like a group of people in their 80s, and you want to refer to that group? You just call them old people, would you? That seems a bit brutal. What would you say?

Well, how about this for the older community? Oldens. I like that. Like olden times. Yeah. And they're from the olden times. Well, I thought you meant old as like youngens, like old apostrophe U-N-S.

Oh, yeah, okay. I meant O-L-D-E-N-S. Oldens. We'll road test it. See if it catches on after the podcast. But... I think I'm going to have to drop that. It just seems unsustainable at this point.

I don't think so. I think you've got to keep it. You reckon? Because so many people assume that it's just I'm doing Borat. And also I think probably, even though I'm not on social media anymore, I would imagine in my feverish

nightmares, I imagine people going why does he just call her my wife? She's a person with a name. It doesn't sound like Borat. It was what was the original coinage? It was cornballs teasing me for sounding robotic. Right, that's what I thought.

It sounds like a robot. That's what it is. My wife. Because I was saying, oh, my wife, she's always putting her keys down. She can't find her keys, and she's always running around in a panic. My wife should just put her keys in the same place, i wish my wife would and corn balls started going my wife

my wife that's why you can't ever lose it because it does express some deep truth about both of us and maybe corn balls too to do with that whatever that is, that quality of emotional, what is it, idiocy. Yes, it's sort of robotic, like a wind-up toy bumping into a wall. Why is there water coming from its eyes? Why did she not understand my joke? It was a joke. Funny joke, a funny joke. Why is the spoon with the forks? Why is the peeler in the cutlery drawer? There is another drawer beneath for the peeler. Why is it so hard?

And then when, where's the peeler? I can't find the peeler.'s like it's a very familiar dynamic why hasn't it done the dishwasher correctly there is a bowl where the plates should be is that the worst dishwasher I love dishwasher etiquette infractions going on. Shave through. I'm sad to relate. Lid's not going back on bottles. The lid is not on the bottle. Why not?

Does that ring any bells? Yeah, yeah. Big style. And how about the recycling situation? I'm supposed to talk to George Monbiot in a few weeks. Plastic bags are not recyclable. Bottles are recyclable. That kind of thing.

Yeah, but I mean, how fascistic are you about it? Do you get sad when... I'm quite precious about it. So for the last couple of years, I've put recycling in the dishwasher. I don't know if that's weird or not. But so that it's really clean. I figure, like, if you're going to recycle recycle it and they're going to turn it into plastic,

your bag or something, then it can't have jam or yogurt on it. You know what I mean? So well, it stands to reason you should just clean it. Well, clean it in the dishwasher. Dishwasher, that's a whole new exciting avenue for me. But I'm probably killing the planet really fast because I'm using all this hot water to rinse out bottles and yoghurt pots and all that sort of stuff. And most of that plastic isn't going to be recycled anyway. How's your carbon footprint? Well, I would hope that it's somewhat,

the badness is offset by me cycling everywhere. But I've been the victim of theft quite a lot more than I would normally. So I've had a couple of bikes stolen this year. Me too, by the way. Do you report your stolen bike to the cops? No. No, because there's no point. I did once when I got my first Brompton stolen, my favorite pink Brompton, and like a total jerk, I leaned it upside the window of a shop as I nipped in to buy something.

But the checkout was right next to this window. So I was thinking, well, I'm going to be right there. There's no way anyone's going to. So I literally turned my back for two seconds to pay the guy. And he said, oh, your bike, your bike. And I turned around and some fucker was on it, cycling off really, really fast, pedaling away, looking like they were an ET. And I ran after him. I was screaming at the top of my voice. I even said, stop that bike! To the people standing around. And I ran into the road after this guy, into the traffic. The traffic all screeched to a halt. But I was just, I was like, no, I'm not going to let you take the bike. Off he went. Stop that bike, I screamed. And then I screamed to the guy, stop you cunt. Yeah. Thinking, well, if I call him that, that might make him think twice.

Because that's as harsh as it gets. Screaming that in public. There was something cathartic about it. But it didn't get any results. And then I called the cops. And then I spoke... Not cheap, those Bromptons, either. No, they're not. I bet they give you free ones, though, don't they?

Of course they do, yeah. So I phoned up the cops, spoke to a really nice, helpful, sympathetic woman who was sort of manning the cop house. And she said, I'll get a policeman to phone you right back. I'll get a detective, whatever. Anyway, detective phones back an hour later. I tell him the situation.

He couldn't have sounded more bored and contemptuous. And he basically said, I think he said, well, to be honest with you, we never get these things back. Do you want to carry on? Do you want us to do anything else? I mean, I appreciate

they've got bigger fish to fry. But they're supposed to be excited to compile the stats, aren't they? Don't they like to know, well, we had 950 bike thefts? You would think on that level the information would be helpful. Also, there is a, you know, there's like a number, right, on the bike. And they all have a unique number. Did you know the number on your bike?

I'm sure I had a record of it somewhere, probably. Did you not know yours? You're a better man than I. You get one when you buy it. No, I'm the last guy to ever do that. The first thing I'm going to do is write down the serial number of my new bike. Well, this time when I replaced it. I admire anyone who does that, who has the presence of mind.

I don't even, you know, like you get the free, send off for three years, free warranty. That goes straight in the bin. Yeah. Well, I took a photo of the registration... Registration number? What is it? Frame number. Love it. Perfect.

Going with frame number. Anyway, yeah, so I have that now. Anyway, back to the Queen, though. Never turn your back to the Queen. Was anyone close to you very upset, like upset like some of those folks on the news? Yes. In fact, I think it was probably the more common reaction.

Like my wife, who's not a royalist by a long shot, in fact, I would say she's a fervent Republican, began crying. Yes. And was a little bit bemused or felt almost a bit ashamed of crying and tried to explain it by saying that it was because it was triggering a response based on her losing her dad and that actually it's not always about the immediate object of grief. That sometimes it's just, it can dredge up a lot of past emotion.

And yeah, my mum and my brother were sad. I was, I mean, at the risk of, it's a high-risk strategy talking about any of this. I was surprised that I wasn't more sad. Can I put it that way? I didn't have a big reaction. And I said to Nancy, my wife, I said, well, you know, you've got such a good heart that you would, you know,

I worried that maybe I should be feeling more than I did feel. Well, maybe, I think I was the same, but maybe you were wrung out because there was so much emotion everywhere else. You know what I mean? Like, I think watching the news coverage hardened my heart a little bit. Right, and I think when it sprung on you, and she's 96,

and you know that this has been coming, it's been in the offing for a number of years, the first response, if I sat down and really thought about it and thought about what it means for her family, I'm sure I would be sad. But it was more that I was noticing the way the world seemed suddenly upside down. Yeah. I had the whole hysteria over a person dying that I never knew when Bowie died.

Right. And I remember how quickly that turned into an absolute bun fight on Twitter. You know, after a couple of hours of people just getting really upset and comforting each other, then so many people weighing in and going, man up! Grow a pair! I think that was Camilla Long's take on the whole situation. Really?

Shut up, you Bowie blubberers! All this kind of thing. Are you getting that on Twitter with the Queen? I haven't been on there. Probably. I haven't been on there. Probably, there is some. I've not been looking at Twitter very much. No.

Occasionally I'm sent photos of slightly surreal tributes to the grief, like clouds that look a bit like the Queen on a horse I've seen. And then one of those McDonald's electronic displays, and it said, it had the golden arches, and it said something like, order anything from the menu. And then there was a picture of the Queen. It was just a very odd juxtaposition. There was another one of a cinema

where they had a sort of satiny black shroud over the pick and mix. Did you see that one? I haven't seen any of those. It's been a lot of odd tributes. And Center Parcs wanted to close on the Monday for the funeral and boot everyone out and Then let them come back the next day. Was it really? Yeah, and then they had to you know, all the people who had booked for that week just said

No Obviously, we're not gonna do that and then they then Center Parks just totally u-turned oh yeah okay but then they said I think they said but if you're but if you were supposed to be arriving on Monday you can't you have to come on Tuesday instead they called them can'ts they're very posh at Center Parks I'm sorry, you can't.

Did you watch any of the live stream of The Lying in State? No. Was that today? It's happening now. Yeah, I haven't seen it yet. And there's a live YouTube update of the length of the queue for filing past the coffin. Currently, I think it's about five hours, six hours or something that you have to wait. Or maybe longer, I'm not sure.

And then when you get in, of course, you're not allowed to... Well, they say don't take any photos and also dress respectful of course and but I'm thinking that is not going to happen neither of those things are going to be respected or maybe maybe the Brits will be more extreme about it than for example the Italians I went to the Vatican, and you're not supposed to take photographs of the Sistine Chapel once you're in there, looking

up at the great pics on the ceiling. You can't take any photos. We went with a guide, and she was saying, okay, we are now going to go into the chapel, um please don't don't take any photo it's a very holy place please no photos and no talking absolute silence please

so we're like yeah yeah yeah cool absolutely sure so we got all respectful and shuffled in there and it's absolutely packed it's quite a small space have you been in there a it's absolutely packed. It's quite a small space. Have you been in there? A long time ago I was, yeah. So it's much smaller than... Yeah, it's quite small. Yeah, than I imagined. And you've got your sort of wood panelled walls and then great pics on the ceiling. But it was

absolutely packed and everyone was talking. And everyone had their phones out and they were doing selfies and they were filming the roof and and then every 15 seconds or so someone would ring a bell and go please no talking Por favor no talking And everyone just start chatting again. There is absolutely no photography.

I couldn't give a shit. In 10 years, they're going to be nude. There'll be nude people picnicking in there. Anyway, God bless her and long live King Charles III. Woo. That was the other thing before we leave the Queen

was when the coffin arrived at Buckingham Palace they had coverage on the BBC just before they cut back to the studio for an exhausted Nicholas Whitchell trying to dredge up a little more emotion but when the

Coffin arrived there was lots of people around watching and so many of them were just going woo! but then the coverage was like watching, and so many of them were just going, woo-hoo, woo-hoo! But then the coverage was like, oh, it's a respectful silence as the coffin turns up.

No, it wasn't. Everyone was whooping. You mentioned Nicholas Whitchell. People are surprised when I tell them this, and I sometimes think I dreamed it, but he is a fervent Nessie hunter. Did you know that? The Loch Ness Monster? Yeah. Because I had a memory from the early 80s of

reading a profile of him and he said, well, I spent a lot of time camping out, looking for Nessie, and then I would see him on the news and I'd be like, well, can I believe anything you say? Because you're out there trying to spot a mythical beast in a remote Scottish loch, right?

So then, you know, it's like something you learn, you read about, you assume everyone else might have seen it, and I would check in with people and I'd say, well, you know he's out there hunting Nessie? And they're like, I didn't know that. Anyway, I mentioned it to someone a couple of months ago, and I thought, I'd better check up on this. And I googled away, I didn't know that. Anyway, I mentioned it to someone a couple of months ago, and I thought, I better check up on this. And I googled away, and there was almost nothing.

And I thought, maybe I did imagine it. And then I found on Goodreads, there were two books that he'd written about Nessie hunting. Two? Yeah. And I was like, wow, it's even more creepy in a way. It's that he was a Nessie hunter, and now they've tried to remove every trace of the's that he was a Nessie hunter, and now they've tried to remove every trace

of the fact that he was a Nessie hunter, right? Because it destroys his credibility in some way, or allegedly would, right? Anyway, I found that odd. And you put that together with, you know, the famous David Icke conspiracy theory, totally ridiculous, obviously, that the royal family are reptiles.

Mm-hmm. That hasn't been getting much coverage recently. Believe it or not, even Ike has the good sense maybe to backpedal that for the moment. But then I was trying to put that together with, like, is this a deep cover project where Witchell is like an Ikean

and he's actually on a kind of reptile hunting mission? I mean, that would be taking decades to infiltrate the BBC in order to get close, maybe get a swab to do a DNA check. Wow. And he's doing all that emotion acting as well. Did you ever care about mythical creatures? When I was about seven, eight, nine, there were ads on the TV for a magazine called The Unexplained.

Yeah. Does this ring a bell? Nessie was all over that. All over it. And I remember because it sounded so, it's like, the truth about the bleeding black Madonnas of Seville. Spontaneous human combustion.

Love it. Creatures of the deep. The truth about Nessie. The unexplained. And then it said, issue two, free with issue one. And I first thought,

that's a great deal. You get issue two, free with issue one. And I first thought, well, that's a great deal. You get issue two, free with issue one. And then your next thought is like, well, why couldn't they just put it in one issue? It's a kind of almost spinal tap thing. This one goes up to 11. Like, we've done two issues at the same time. So you get more.

More combustion. But I subscribed to that for a while. What was your favourite bit? The pictures of the half-burned, spontaneous human combustion people. Yeah, and there was just a person, well, an armchair with just a pile of ash next to a pair of slippers. Or a high-heeled shoe with a leg on it poking out of a pile of... Oh, yeah. So creepy.

I think that's real is the other crazy part, right? The leg. The leg is real. I think spontaneous human combustion is real, isn't it? No. Is it not? Is it? No.

Someone's shaking their head. No, it isn't real. People burning is real. You know, because if you've got all these atoms in your body and they're spinning and spinning and spinning, and it's a bit like if everyone in the world jumped at the same time, the planet would go off its axis, but you don't do it. But there's a one in ten billion chance

that all the atoms ping in the same direction at the same time. Like, it doesn't happen often. But when it does happen, you're gone. That made sense when I explained it, didn't it? Yeah, well... They're all pinging, and then they all ping in the same direction.

Yes. I mean, I suppose you're saying, you know, it's like sort of parallel universe theory. Everything is possible in some universe so why not what is it that you're saying is just people who've actually what been struck by lightning but they're indoors

some of them I don't believe, I think they faked the photos oh that's how I think they did it. You're so cynical. Well... You'll be saying they faked the moon landing next. I met Bill Burr and he started going on about that.

Oh, no. But you went on Rogan three times? Twice. Twice. And did you... Like, what is your sense of how much of that he believes? I haven't listened to Rogan enough to know what his belief system is. I know that he got into a big thing because so many of his listeners were flat earthers.

And he was beginning to get on his nerves. And he put a bunch of stuff out saying, like, come on, guys. You know, I mean, it's kind of sad when your fan base is heavily populated by that level of lunacy. No disrespect to any flat Earthers in the room. Human combustion is real. Have you ever interviewed a flat Earther? No, no. I'm frightened of them. Why?

I'm frightened of anyone that has very strong convictions that I don't understand, partly because I find it infuriating. You just love The Matrix, don't you? You're so deep into it. You know that term that gets used a lot, like NPCs? Do your kids use that or anything? What does that mean?

Non-player characters. Oh, yeah. It's the metaphor, the idea that gets used a lot, like NPCs? Do your kids use that or anything? What does that mean? Non-player characters. Oh, yeah. It's the metaphor, the idea that in certain video games, you control the main character, but there's these characters programmed to behave. Like Free Guy. Yeah, and every part of what they do is scripted. Yes.

Welcome to Jumanji. He was an NPC in the eponymous film, Jumanji. And so that's become the ultimate term of abuse for someone who's in the Matrix. They just believe everything they're told about, what was the example? Oh, yes, flat earthers. So flat earthers would see us as NPCs, probably. But you don't want your paradigm disrupted too much. You'd get angry or frustrated or sad.

I'd get frustrated because, you know, I get easily upset and, you know, I'm inarticulate at the best of times. I'd start spluttering and stuttering and they would own me. They would absolutely own me and they'd walk away feeling totally vindicated. And, you know, they'd post a YouTube video about it. Flat Earth destroys Blue Pill podcast host. Right. NPC, watch as NPC podcast host gets pwned by Flat Earth freethinker. Exactly.

I'd watch that. I'd click on that. I'm a sucker for anything where someone's getting owned or pwned or smashed. You know what I mean? Watch as Jordan Peterson pwns. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Destroys Snowflake. There's a lot of that, isn't there? It's terrible. And half the time, by the way, they're not getting pwned or owned. No, never. They're never getting destroyed. It's just a back and forth. But even I've noticed recently that everybody does.

Russell Brand does that with his videos as well. He does real click-baity titles. I think because maybe he doesn't title the videos. A lot of the time you've got a separate team of people who are doing all the… The thumbnail team. Yeah. And choosing the right thumbnail apparently is half the thing. I was too short. Have you noticed that, like, when the whole YouTube,

where they've got some, what should be a screen grab, and it looks irresistibly inviting. What an extraordinary, you know, it says, what J-Lo looks like now will leave you speechless. And it's a picture of a withered old lady. And you click on it. And it isn't even J-Lo. It's a withered old lady.

That can't be legal, can it? I've tried and tried and tried. So at this point, we'd have a jingle in the podcast, right? So, oh no, I forgot to do the ramble chat. We'll take that as read. We'll have this jingle. Right, let's go again. What don't you fucking understand?

Kick your fucking ass. Let's go again. What the fuck is it with you? I want you off the fucking set, you prick! No! You're a nice guy! The fuck are you doing? No! Don't shut me up!

No! No! Ah, da-da-da-da like this! No! No! Don't shut me up! Ah, da-da-da-da like this! Fuck's sake, man, you're amateur! Seriously, man, you and me, we're fucking done professionally. Fuck's sake, man, you're amateur.

Seriously, man, you and me, we're fucking done professionally. Can I ask you a question about that? Because I love that, and I'm always curious whether you've ever had any inkling of any comeback from Christian Bale. No. He might find it painful, having probably a moment he's not proud of turned into a comedy jingle. But I think if you've had a meltdown like that, come on.

Yeah, it's fair game. It's absolutely fair game. I mean, I totally, I do have compassion for him. But what a meltdown. Extraordinary. And it just went on and on. and it was, oh, I love it. The bit I love best is, you're a nice guy! Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You're a nice guy, he keeps saying, but then just carries on screaming at him. So weird. Well, you got recorded by Scientologists, right? Yeah, yeah. Did they ever get anything? got recorded by Scientologists, right? Yeah. Did they ever get anything? I don't think they got anything that good. They got me looking

a bit tense, which is me most of the time anyway. I don't think I said anything weird. But you never went. I've had my, if I was recorded

in a domestic setting, underslept and or ill, with the kids not behaving, I would be capable of having something pretty embarrassing. Of course everybody would. We've all been, we've all had our moments we're not proud of imagine that, but and then

that being turned into a jingle just trying to imagine how I'd feel about that I know it would be bad, it would be bad but it's a good jingle. I mean, like, I did... I genuinely... I wrestled with it for a while, and I thought, is this cool? I mean, it's on the edge, really, isn't it?

Because it isn't nice to keep on raking up this moment when he lost his cool. On the other hand, it does really work nicely with this backing. It's so good. It's so good. And I don't know. I think it's funny. I would like to think that maybe he could own that moment.

I should do a Tom Cruise one when he lost it on the set. That was another one. Yeah. He was a bit more in control, maybe. He was admonishing lost it on the set. That was another one. Yeah. He was a bit more in control maybe. He was admonishing the people on the set for not observing COVID protocols. Yeah. What was the phrase?

Did he have a funny... It wasn't quite as beautifully put together as Christians, but it was sort of a bit self-important. It was like, you're here because I'm keeping you in business. I'm keeping this operation running. He was sort of pulling rank self-important. It was like, you're here because I'm keeping you in business. I'm keeping this operation running. He was sort of pulling rank and being efficient. The other day I watched that interview

he did with the Australian reporter a few years back. That pops up in my... YouTube's decided I'm interested in that. Yeah. I think I've seen it before. Maybe I'm due to have another watch. What is it he asked that Tom objects to? He just starts saying

Scientology mate what's it all about no it wasn't even the it wasn't even the Scientology because he asks about Scientology and he says it's so important to you isn't it mate and he doesn't say mate and Tom Cruise gets a little

a little rattly looking and his grin gets a little rattly looking, and his grin gets a little fixed. But he starts saying, yeah, yeah, it's real. It's real important to me. And it's changed my life totally. And so he's fine. He talks about how important Scientology is to him when asked a direct question.

But then when the guy starts saying, so Nicole, so you've split up now. Was she the love of your life? And that's when he gets annoyed and he starts, he just says, no, you crossed the line. You know you're dead.

You know you're dead. You crossed the line. And he goes, oh no, I didn't realise. Are you, you're upset? I've upset you. And then he's like like I'm not upset

I'm just correcting you you stepped out of line yeah I knocked you back into line that's right and it's an incredibly tense moment yeah

and the the journalist is admirably like not rattled or I mean you can see he is rattled but he's dealing with it

very well I'd be crying I'd be crying. I'd be just gibbering and apologizing. I definitely would, yeah. I could deal with that. Maybe the old you, the new you. You're a seasoned broadcaster.

No, I couldn't handle it. Any confrontation. You've never had anything like that on the podcast? Not that it's been broadcast. I don't like those moments, really. I think that's your stock in trade in some ways, is occasionally, I mean, you don't go after them, but occasionally they happen.

Me? Yeah, and they're always crackly in your documentaries, and you deal with them very well. You don't look... Try to. It doesn't look as if you're going to cry, but I absolutely, any confrontation, my voice will go... Really? There's probably, if people really dug around,

they would hear me and Joe getting into one on XFM back in the day when we just started being on the radio and we weren't used to it. And being live, it was the radio and we weren't used to it. And being live, it was the first time we'd done anything live. And occasionally we would rub each other up the wrong way. And you can hear me. Having a domestic. Yeah, honestly.

And did you ever used to listen to us in those days? Of course, yeah. Loved it. But did you? He's being sincere. Is that a trick question but did you um no absolutely did you ever hear because a few people said to me like oh yeah i heard you this afternoon that was pretty awkward i didn't hear those i'm proud to say i think i heard the first um example of the use of steven oh yeah Black Squadron. Yes. Which is quite, you know,

I was there listening to it live. But I don't remember Wobble Voice and I don't remember, I remember, I mean, things like that

when they happen you do remember. I remember seeing Strictly Come Dancing and Bruce Forsythe telling off Tess Daly quite visibly

in a quite hurtful and obvious way live on air and thinking, oh, that's not good Brucey Brucey going like

no love you'll be a professional for once in your life mmm something like that that was my Brucey that came from nowhere mmm good game

good game and Tess Staley was like and then they carried on as if nothing had happened I thought I just, you can't gaslight me I saw that happen, I saw it oh wow it's quite a weird thing so I think I would remember if I'd heard you and Joe

yeah who was Bruce and who was Tess probably I was Tess it was about the big one was about the computers. And Joe would man the computer and he would see the messages coming in. So this is 2006 or thereabouts. It's early days, pre-social media, I think.

But people sending in texts and messages while we're live on air. And Joe would just tell me all the negative ones when the songs were playing. So we'd be playing The Darkness. You had to play The Darkness on the hour, every hour in those days. And queuing up the Arctic Monkeys. And then while the monkeys were on, Joe would be saying, Oh, I want to hear from the guy called Paul, he says, why don't you infantile cunts shut up

and play some music? And I'd be like, don't tell me that. Don't read that out. Jesus. And then we got into a big row, and I was like, why are you reading it out? You're just reading it out to spread the misery. He's like, no, I'm not miserable about it.

I'm like, yes, you are. You just want me to feel bad, too. And it all blew up. And then our producer was like okay do you want to um just queue up a couple more songs while we sort this out because joe was like i think i'm gonna go and it was sort of halfway through the show it was gnarly and then and i do have a tape somewhere of of of our bants when we came back trying to... LAUGHTER ..trying to act like we hadn't just had this massive row.

Me sort of doing fake laughs at Joe's wobbly-voiced anecdote. LAUGHTER OK, actual thing that I wanted to ask you about, which I didn't speak to you about when we talked earlier in the year, although it was in an embryonic form, was your jiggle-jiggle notoriety. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I thought there was a ripple of applause, but... There it is. There it is. There it is. But it had happened by that point.

I mean, this all started life way back in the day, right? When you did your rap episode. 22 years ago. 22 years. How old were you when you did that? 30. 30. Yeah, it was episode, whatever.

It was the third season of Weird Weekends, and I did an episode about gangster rap. And as was the way of Weird Weekends, and I did an episode about gangster rap. And as was the way with Weird Weekends, I wanted to participate in the scene as a way of understanding how it all worked. I was in Jackson, Mississippi, and I got together with two rappers there called Reese and Bigelow. And the plan was for us just to write a rap together that I would then perform on the radio. And then I thought, well, I better bring some little seed crystal along for us to work with. So in the shower, into my head came a ditty, less than ditty, a fragment that just went jiggle, jiggle. I like it when you wiggle. It makes me want to dribble. Fancy a fiddle? And I thought, that's enough. That's enough to bring

into the room. And then I sat down with them and they were like, they didn't look very impressed with that. And they were about to write a whole other rap and I was like, no, no, I'd like to work with what I've got. So they took Jiggle Jiggle and turned it into the sound of change in your pocket.

Kind of jingle jingle. Whose idea was that? That was Bigelow. Nice. And he, I remember he said, you've got a little rhyming ability, but we're going to help you out a whole lot. And then within a few seconds, it seemed, he turned around and he said, my money don't jiggle, jiggle. It folds. I'd like to see you wiggle, wiggle for sure and so on. So that was him. Yeah.

And I was like, wow. I mean, I really was. I was like, wow, you took something rubbish and made it really good. And then we took it from there. We sort of traded off lines and then I performed it on the radio show. So at that point, it was sort of done. It went out on TV as an episode. But over the years, and especially when Weird Weekends turned up on Netflix, But over the years, and especially when Weird Weekends turned up on Netflix, people would say, you know, they would tweet,

Ha ha, Louis, my money don't jiggle jiggle. And I thought, you know, a lot of people seem to be enjoying this rediscovery of the old shows, but especially the rap episode, for whatever reason. So then I began doing interviews to promote whatever new program I had out, and quite often they would say, do you still remember your rap, or do you want to do it online and I would do it again so then earlier this year I was on chicken shop date promoting some shows and I was interviewed by Amelia de Moldenberg and she said do you remember your rap and I did it again probably the sixth or seventh time and then they put that online and then two producers in Manchester called Duke and Jones remixed it. And then they put it on TikTok, and then a couple of dancers did a dance around the track.

And then suddenly, it just blew up. It went crazy. And I got a phone call, no, it was an email, from my agent saying, TikTok's been in touch. And I was like, right. And they're kind of confused and amazed by like what your rap is doing and I'm like what the thing my money don't jiggle she's yeah yeah it's a it's apparently it's trending across the UK breaking all records and they think it's going to blow up in America and even in Korea or whatever

like I'm slightly telescoping it but I was like okay well that's nice bye and and I thought well that'll be done in a week or two but then it just seemed to keep keep going wow and then the most recent thing I saw which made me especially, was that they'd done an actual... Well, when did Jason Derulo get involved? Okay. So then we recorded it as a single, me and Duke and Jones, so that... I wasn't looking to get any money out of it. It was just Duke and Jones, this was their biggest hit by far,

but it was only available as a fragment on TikTok, so you couldn't use your smart speaker to stream it so so they're like would you please re-record it because we just want to be able to stream it on a spot smart speaker and i was like fine so i i was like as long as it doesn't take more than an hour so i set an hour aside and we recorded not far from here in king's cross and i was confused like what even you even how do you reproduce something that's even in terms of the delivery so thrown away and off the cuff

so I sort of performed it like you know I think it's better when you don't try too hard I'm like okay and I did it and so they put it out and I was signed to well if you're going to release it you have to sign to a label I don't know why they said that's just how it works so I signed to... They said, well, if you're going to release it, you have to sign to a label.

I don't know why. They said, that's just how it works. So I signed to Sony. I know, Brent. It sounds weird saying it out loud in a big room. And of course I signed to Sony after a small bidding war. And then they put it out. And then they put it out.

And then they said, now the plan is to get a big remix, and we're going to get a big star, and we think it might be Jason Derulo. And I was like, okay. And then that was it. So Jason Derulo, he's an amazing, fine figure of a man. Wow. He's been doing his Joe Wicks, I think.

That's a genuine Derulo take. That's incredible, isn't it? That he posted on his Instagram with what he described as his anaconda. I can't work out what's happening there, sartorially. Is it, like, are they like shorts or what are they? Yeah, they're very short, swimming short. Or maybe just pants.

Very nice. What we in this country call pants. So he jumped on the beat. Yeah. If I can put it that way. And then we did a video and that was released. Wow. You know we had to get sign off from Neil Diamond he gets some action too

he gets 10% because he wrote Red Red Wine that's right we had to negotiate with his lawyers and held the release back for a week while me and Neil went toe to toe and he signed it off apparently

this is name drop alert I was saying to Stormzy I was saying to Stormzy. I was like, I didn't say this, but for the story, I will say this. I said like, that fucker Diamond is holding us to ransom. Like I was in music industry, bro. That fucker Diamond is holding us to ransom, man. We can't release the track.

Because his lawyers say he wants a piece of the action. And then he held out for 10%. He's getting 10% of my money. So I obviously didn't say that, but it was some version of that. And Stormzy's point was, he said, you know what? Actually, I think you got off lightly. He said he could have asked for a lot more than that. He said in the industry, this was two guys in the industry just talking. Two signed rap artists.

Two of the UK, the flower of the UK grime scene. Well, one's an OG and the other's Stormzy. So his thing was like, actually, if you feel like you've got any kind of toehold in an artist's IP, then you could ask for a lot more. 50%, even 90 or 100%. Yeah, that's right. That's what the Stones got.

Kookaburra. Neil Diamond, thank you for being reasonable and doing business. The UK rap scene thanks you. Here's a little bit of the video. Has everyone seen this video? I have rapped in a program I did, a Weird Weekends episode about rap. Can you remember any of the rap that you did?

My money don't jiggle, jiggle, it folds. I like to see you wiggle, wiggle, for sure. It makes me want to dribble, dribble, you know, jiggle, it folds. I like to see you wiggle, wiggle, for sure. It makes me want to dribble, dribble. You know, riding in my Fiat, you really have to see it. Six feet two in a compact, no slack. But luckily the seats go back, I got a knack to relax in my mind. Sipping some red, red wine.

All this caviar, hard to digest. Money long like receipts from CVS. Me, I'm not stressed. They're too fine, I guess. Got too much, much, can't be depressed. Your friend came to dinner, now she DTL. But I stick with you, baby, like Weezy L. So there's a little... I was enjoying that.

Taste of the jiggling. Thank you. Some YouTube comments. Oh, careful. Oh, no. You know, I really searched for some offensive ones, but they're very positive on the whole. Surprise says, better than any song. So I don't know if that means that it's not a song but it's still good

or if it just means that it's better than all songs Joe Kiro7777 says If only we could see those guys that helped Louis come up with these legendary rhymes Bet they never thought those bars would travel this far Would love to know their reaction. Do you know if they know about it? They are delighted. Reese and Bigelow.

And I got in touch with them because I thought they'll have noticed it's on TikTok and I should just check in with them. And by the way, they do get, obviously, a piece of the action, as they say. That's an industry term. I've been very conscious of wanting them to feel involved. And I think they're really thrilled, to be honest with you. Because they had had a couple of local hits, but this is beyond anything that they'd had hit-wise, I believe.

They wanted to go on tour, really. And I was like, we're available to do shows, man. Just fly us out. We've got passports and everything. Oh, my God. They could have come here. I think they were angling, quite obviously, man just fly us out we got we got you know we got passports and everything oh my god they could have come here yeah i think they were angling quite obviously to be on the tickets to the uk that me and them would be going you know doing dates around the uk like how do you tour a 30 second viral rap fragment that's the industry and for the encore well you do a you do a couple

of covers and then yeah you sing the song three times. Yeah. And count your money. Naz Shay says, never try to belittle or shame a man he might rap. True. Very true. And finally, Future Reference says,

I'm happy for the jiggle jiggle guy. His song finally took off after all those years. Good on you, bud. I mean, I felt physically sick when I saw the video. I just thought, what? No. I was hoping for that reaction. Yeah.

How did you come across the video, I just thought, what? No. I was hoping for that reaction. Yeah. How did you come across the video? Other than endlessly Googling my name late into the evening. I do a show called Bug. Of course you do. And we show all the hottest new music videos. I thought that might bring it onto your radar. And on the long list for the next Bug show was this. Not just on the long list for the next bug show was this. Not just on the long list.

And I just thought, oh, you're joking, aren't you? So anyway, I've taken Jason Derulo out, and I've written some verses that I think will be a nice counterpoint that I'm going to have a go at delivering. If you're up for... I'll do my best. Will you do your bits? I'll try.

All right. So let's see how this goes. This is going to be messy. This is the first time. We've never done this before. All right, here we go. Here we go. My money don't jiggle jiggle it folds i like to see you wiggle wiggle for sure it makes me want to dribble dribble you know riding in my fiat you really have to see it six feet two in a compact

no slack but luckily the seats go back i got a knack to relax in my mind sipping some red red wine well we've known each other since back at school and you know i admire nearly everything you do i love your documentaries the quirky and the boring ones and your books are great i love the puns but lou i'm concerned for you is it wise to do so much other stuff too i mean the podcast and now the middle class rap it's like you spot my patch then you do a big crap on it but this is not about me I'm incredibly successful as anyone can see I mean yes podcasting is my main gig but I was really pleased when yours got so big I just know fame comes at a cost and I don't want to see a good pal get lost so take a little break get cancelled

perhaps make more room for the mediocre chaps What do you think? Thanks man, thanks for Indulging that That was great, I enjoyed your rap You rode that beast like a stallion. Thanks very much. Well, we're nearly at the end of our time together.

Would you... Now, has anyone got a fun question they would like to ask Louis at this point? Something short and snappy. This is always dangerous, throwing it open to questions. If you have something that you would like to ask Louis, something in keeping with the mood that we have created, not too much of a tonal swerve,

although, ask what you want. Anyone? Someone right in the middle towards the back there, raising their hand. And we're passing along a mic to you. When you receive it, perhaps you could tell us what your name is Gareth hi Gareth how you doing I'm good man thanks for coming along what's your question I wish there were an extract the dangerous thing is you should think it's not going to go to my

head I'm not a rapper I'm not a rapper and then The dangerous thing is you sort of think, it's not going to go to my head. I'm not a rapper. I'm not a rapper. And then the more you say it, you secretly think someone's going to say, yeah, you are a rapper. You were signed to Sony. Come on, keep going with it. I did think about a Christmas rap

going with the sort of jiggle jiggle bells or working that pun slightly. The sad truth is no plans to. The dream would have is to get, would have been to get Stormzy, of course, and I mentioned him earlier. The reason was I was doing an interview with him for a new series I'm doing

that will be out October, November time. Six profiles, six documentary profiles of people I admire or I'm interested in, and Stormzy's one of them. And actually, we included it in the cut. There's a bit where he's talking about my viral rap and I go, I wish I knew a rapper who would go on it with me. And I said, I think it needs...

Did you say it in that voice? Yeah. And I said, I wish I knew a rapper. I said, do you think it needs a rapper? And then he goes, you know, I think it's just you. Do you think it needs a wrapper? And then he goes, you know, I think it's just you. It was a very, it was a loveliest, most polite sort of,

thanks, but no thanks. Thank you very much, Gareth. Any other questions before we wrap things up? Someone at the back there, when you get that mic, tell us what you want. Hi. I'm Sarah. Sarah. Could we hear your full set of I Can Be You Please? when you get that mic. Tell us what you want. Hi. I'm Sarah. Sarah. Beep, beep.

Could we hear your full set so that I can beat you, please? Oh, jeez. Are you not worried about the mics? No, go for it. The mics. Oh, jeez. I won't do too much.

Oh, it sounds funny and then I'm going to start doing it and you're like, it's not funny, it just feels weird. Right? I've never made you do this live before, I don't think. I've done it live, and it's a weird experience.

But if we're all ready, I'll do a little bit. Yeah? You want to hear it? And it's quite hard on the ears. It's got no build. It comes in at 11. I'll hold the mic a little further away. Yes, sir. I can boogie, but I need a certain song.

I can boogie, boogie woogie all night long. All night long. Thank you. I feel like I'm really getting the most out of my talented guest. Who's led an interesting life, had an extraordinary career, and I think I've covered most of it.

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Hey, welcome back, podcats. That was Louis Theroux there, live at the London Podcast Festival back in September 2022. Thanks very much to Louis for coming along and talking with me and rapping and being his usual generous and good-humoured self. Don't forget to explore his new podcast on Spotify. I'm sure it's really good. Taking a little detour here, walking down a more grassy track. There's a heavenly breeze.

It is, you know what I'm going to say, very beautiful out here. But look, how are you doing, podcats? I'm aware that we've been apart more than we would normally be. So I've written you a letter. A letter from Norfolk. And I am going to pause in this shady spot and I'm going to read you my letter. Maybe I'll sit on this here gate. Let's wipe the, uh, wipe the shit off the top of the gate. Bird shit, I think that was.

There you go. Dear podcats, how are you? Sorry to hear about that thing. Hope you're doing okay. I'm fine overall. I've been having more dreams than usual recently. It's not a good start to a letter, isn't it? Talking about your dreams. No one likes hearing about other people's dreams. Anyway, I continue.

The other day, I dreamt I was in a metal space rocket with members of the 90s Welsh band Gorky's Zygotic Monkey. The rocket was only a little bigger than a white van, and we were sat side by side on regular chairs, facing a rudimentary control panel with a window over it. We made it to space, then passed out or fell asleep, coming round when we were back on Earth, where our rocket hovered above the evening traffic in a rainy town. I asked the lead singer, Eurus, why we couldn't go faster than the traffic as we were hanging above it. Also, we were in a rocket. Eurus said that even though we were in a rocket, because we were close to the traffic, we were obliged to stick to the 20 mile an hour speed limit. I think this dream came from a conversation that I had recently with comedian and broadcaster Ellis James, who I met at a party. He's a big Gorky's fan too, and we took a deep dive into the magical mystery of their back catalogue,

especially the beautiful and unhinged Patio and Tate albums. Frustratingly, these early records, originally released on the Angst label, I think, are not currently available on Spotify. It's good that Three Feet High and Rising is finally there, but there's so much else missing, apart from Neil Young and Joanie. Is it all Joe Rogan's fault? Yes, I think it probably is. Luckily, my son has shown me how to enable Spotify

to access a folder of MP3s on my laptop and import the songs therein into Spotify playlists. There's a link in the description of today's episode to show you how. It's been a game changer for me and has made me very grateful that we had children. I think the rocket ship part of my dream came from a short story by Tom Hanks that I read before interviewing him.

It was about some scientist friends making themselves a rocket and launching themselves into orbit using bits of tech that anyone could get hold of. I imagine the story was intended to convey how extraordinary it was that those first moon shots relied on technology that is now dwarfed in processing power by the average smartphone. It was one of the many things I didn't really get round to chatting about with Mr Hankey. Over the last few months, I've been drinking my morning tea,

Yorkshire, not sponsored, with vanilla soy milk, also not sponsored. It sounds disgusting, but I like it. My wife, my wife, tasted it one day and wrinkled her beautiful nose. It's way too sweet, she said. You'd know all about that, I said, and she laughed, and then we kissed and did some admin.

She sends love, by the way. My beard is now almost entirely white, and over the last few weeks I've noticed silvery flecks appearing at my temples at last. By next year, I'll probably have to ask Helen Green to update the image of my face on the podcast artwork to reflect my advancing Santa status. Fuck you, Father Time. I've been working on a lot of songs for my album and writing a fair bit for the follow-up to Ramble Book, although with both projects I'm still in the frustrating,

is this anything, creative liminal space. Music-wise, I've had many days that begin with me sitting in front of the computer, failing to do other work and domestic admin in favour of picking up my guitar. It's a Godin A6 electroacoustic. Not sponsored. And then I visit the Ultimate Guitar website, also not sponsored, to look up chords for favourite songs. Some of the songs I've learned to play this year include King of the Road by Roger Miller. That bit took me ages to figure out. Dock of the Bay by Otis Redding. Let's Make the Water Turn Black by Frank Zappa.

And She Was by Talking Heads. And currently I'm trying to do Black Like Me by Spoon, who I saw play last week in Islington at the Assembly Hall. Never been there before. Brilliant venue. What an amazingly tight and energetic show by a band now in their 30th year. God, I love them. I only got out the guitar again last year, having put it away for at least a decade after feeling I'd embarrassed myself one too many times trying to play Bowie songs in front of other human beings. I originally bought that guitar before I got married.

And it was so that I could learn how to play Kooks by David Bowie and then surprise Sarah on our wedding day with the fact that I'd learned how to play guitar. I think it went fine. But yeah, afterwards, a few times I just thought, oh dear, I should stop. What I should have done is got lessons, but I didn't. Anyway, back to my letter. I can still barely play. Still need to get lessons. If there's anyone in Norwich who wants to teach me how to play guitar, get in touch. And if I'm trying to sing like David Byrne, too, it's really a horrible noise.

But even so, it makes me so happy. For someone like me, who never properly learned how to play music, there's something magical about finding guitar chords for a favourite song, and, when making the shapes as best I can on the fretboard, realising how the simple progressions must have come about. It's tremendously encouraging to appreciate that the core of the songwriting process can be so basic, even if what ends up making a song great, the melody, the lyrics, the arrangement, the playing and the recording, remain impenetrable mysteries. Having a go is great fun though, and I've had quite a few days recently

that have passed in a euphoric haze as I record basic backing tracks onto Logic, sing bollocks over the top and convince myself I'm actually quite great at this songwriting business. The fun ends abruptly when I play a song I'm pleased with to members of my family. I'm going to jump off the fence. My bum's getting numb. Wander into the meadow. Playing songs to my family, yes. My letter continues. It's a stupid thing to do, and it puts my family in an unfair position

because there's too many family forces at work for it to be a useful exercise. They love me, and would love to be able to tell me that I've just plopped out a great song, but what they hear is usually very odd, and not odd in a wonderful way like Gorky's zygotic monkey, odd in a this-isn't-nearly-as-good-as-Lizzo way. I want you to be honest. in a this-isn't-nearly-as-good-as-Lizzo way. I want you to be honest. I'm a grown-up, I can take it, I say, none of which is true. Cringing ensues.

I don't understand what you're trying to do with this stuff, said my son after I played him a synthesiser instrumental that sounded a bit like a square pusher fan making music for toddler rides at a fairground. But maybe that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I just don't know. From time to time over the last few months, I've had some help from a couple of professional musicians, and I think a handful of good bits have come out of those brief sessions.

But they have their own careers to be getting on with, so mainly I'm on my own, ping-ponging between states of creative ecstasy and profound futility. It's a similar story with the book. I'm trying to write about working with Jo in the 90s and early 2000s, and about my mum and the depressive hole I fell into in the pandemic madness after she died in 2020. I feel as though these kinds of things will only be worth writing about if I'm honest, but, says my internal critic, maybe not even honesty is enough to make writing about these things worthwhile. In the meantime, I go down rabbit holes online. One of the more rewarding

ones being YouTube videos by an American ex-philosophy student called Natalie Wynne, aka ContraPoints. Her witty and well-produced video essays are long, sometimes up to two hours, so I watch them in chunks that are by turns fascinating, funny, challenging, and for someone like me, sometimes baffling. She talks thoughtfully about trans issues a lot, having herself transitioned in the last few years. But the stuff I really relate to is when she talks about various forms of self-loathing and embarrassment. There's a link to her essay on the subject of all things cringe in the description of today's podcast. I don't think I've heard anyone talk about this stuff with so much candor and insight the way she does. And yet she's well aware that self-loathing can become another facet of narcissistic self-regard.

At my birthday supper recently, an atmosphere of good-humoured family bonhomie, possibly enhanced by some nice wine, encouraged me to share, in a very fun, entertaining and non-needy way, my worries over coming up short in the music and book-writing departments. My 14-year-old daughter put a hand on my arm and said, I love you, Dad, but sometimes you kind of need to get a grip. Oh, yeah, that's nice. Who are you? Jordan Peterson, I shouted and stormed out without finishing my second slice of Biscoff birthday cake. I didn't do that. I said, yeah, OK, fair point. I'll give it a go. But I'm not making any promises. The next morning, I wrote a song called I'd Love to Write a Song, which I think may be a classic. All right, maybe not a classic, but perhaps nearly as

good as a weird Gorky's album track. And I don't think it's something that AI could have written. And for now, that's good enough to be getting on with. Yours sincerely, Adam Buxton. There you go, that's my letter, which extended the length of today's podcast, and I apologise if you were hoping for more of Louis and less of me reading my letter. Thanks very much to all the people who made us feel so welcome at King's Place last year and helped record that episode of the podcast, the technical team there, Zuber, Dan, Matt, Ruth, and especially Zoe Jays, who invited me to the podcast festival.

Don't forget to check out this year's festival. There's a link in the description. Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchell, as ever, for his invaluable production support. Much appreciated, Seamus. Thanks to Helen Green for her beautiful podcast artwork. Thanks to all at ACAST for their continued support. But thanks, most of all, to you.

Would you like a beautiful summery meadow hug? Come on. Would you like a beautiful summery meadow hug? Come on. Good to see you. Thanks for sticking right to the end. I hope I'll see some of you over the summer at various shows. Hope you can make it to Brighton for that Best of Bug show or maybe the Idler.

That's just a couple of weeks away, isn't it? And or maybe blue dot. But either way, hope things go well for you until next we meet. Take care. I love you. Bye. Bye! Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Please like and subscribe. Give me a big smile and a thumbs up. Nice, take a bite, put me a thumbs up. Give me a big smile and a thumbs up.

Nice, take a bite, put me a thumbs up. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Give me a big smile and a thumbs up. Like and subscribe. Thank you. Bye.