THE ADAM BUXTON PODCAST - EP.46 - SHARON HORGAN

Episode Date: June 1, 2017

Adam talks to Irish writer, and actor Sharon Horgan about Motherland, Catastrophe, Carrie Fisher, Divorce, nice smells and sexy massages. Music and jingles by Adam Buxton Thanks to Seamus Murphy Mitchel for production support and to Matt Lamont for convo editing. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buxton. I'm a man. I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan. Hey, how you doing, podcats? Adam Buxton here with Rosie. Well, you've really been running around, haven't you?

Rosie's been gambling in our fields. Actually, at the moment, we're in... We're not in one of our regular fields. This is exciting. We're mixing it up. We're in kind of a meadow covered in big, big daisies. Giant daisies.

Thousands of giant daisy flowers with many bees and butterflies feeding upon them, snorting the yellow powder from the tops of the daisies like yellow cocaine. A little bit of Herzog there for you. I'll tell you who's the Herzog master. Julian Barrett. He does an incredible Herzog.

Next time I see Julian, I'm going to see if I can record him going maximum Herzog for your pleasure. Rosie, Rosie, come this way. Come on. This small black dog is so happy in the field and can't believe how exciting it is in the long grass. She knows nothing of the forthcoming election and the many troubles of the outside world. All she cares about is jumping and hopping

and occasionally doing a poo. All right. Podcast number 46 features a conversation with Irish writer and actor Sharon Horgan. Sharon first caught people's attention in the TV world with her BBC Three sitcom Pulling, written with Dennis Kelly back in 2006, but it was Catastrophe, co-starring and co-written by Rob Delaney, former podcast guest, that thrust Sharon into the glare of mainstream

success back in 2015. Our conversation took place one afternoon at the beginning of May of this year, 2017, and Sharon had just come from the new offices of her production company, Merman, where she had that day been writing with Holly Walsh, with whom she's written several other projects in the past, and Helen Linehan and Graham Linehan on the forthcoming BBC sitcom Motherland. So, of course, because it's one of my favourite subjects, I am Linehan on the forthcoming BBC sitcom Motherland.

So, of course, because it's one of my favourite subjects, we discussed the delicate balancing act that is creative collaboration. And from there we talked about, well, lots of things. The art of telling stories, what it's like for your real-life parents when you kill off your fictional parents, and what it's like when your fictional parents get killed off by real life, as was so sadly the case at the end of 2016 when Carrie Fisher died. Carrie, of course, played Rob's mother in Catastrophe. We also talked about Divorce, the show Sharon wrote for Sarah Jessica Parker, also starring Thomas Hayden Church, which aired in 2016 and I very much enjoyed.

And towards the end of the conversation, there was a great deal of mirth when it came to talking about sexy massages, or well, one in particular that Sharon had. Or, well, one in particular that Sharon had. And what happens generally when physical contact with strangers borders on the inappropriate. Here we go. Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the fat And have a ramble chat Put on your conversation coat And find your talking hat

La, la, la, la, la, la, la La, la, la, la, la, la La, la, la, la, la, la, la La, la, la, la, la, la, la how are you feeling man are you just did you just come from work i just came from um we have a new office now at merman we were just squatting in someone else's office for a while so now we have a big grown-up office and i've been away filming so it was my first time sort of seeing it occupied with people and desks and for someone who's like should be visual you know because i make stuff that ends up being tv programs i should have been able to visualize that office with tables and chairs and people in it

and i couldn't so i was like, this is a disaster. This place is, I can't, how would anyone want to work here? I freaked out to bits. And I think like partly it was because like, oh no, this has grown up now. I employ people and I pay, you know, at least. But did you also have fantasies about it being like an advertising agency? I guess I've been working in places where there's pool tables and and and youthful people sort of right you know running around making popcorn you wanted a ball pool i wanted a ball

pool but anyway it's nice now and today i was writing with graham lenehan i know your pal yeah and helen lenehan and holly walsh and we're sort of writing this series called Motherland that we made a pilot of. Yeah. Congratulations. Got commissioned. Yeah. Six episodes for BBC Two. Yeah.

How does it work then? Are you sort of overseeing? Who's the chief? Who's steering the boat? Well, I think. There's four of you. Yeah. You're clever, creative people.

There's four of us. There doesn't appear to be a chief because we're all quite opinionated yeah and all have our own ways of doing things so that's the only thing that is a little clashy because graham sort of starts with the joke almost and then works outwards and we kind of i guess start with the characters or the things that we think are important things to say about those characters and then find ways to make that funny he thinks more episodically whereas i've always been much more kind of what's going to happen over the arc of the series and emotionally yeah emotionally yes but it seems like for this project you do sort of end up in a better place because of it it's just like you know it's just like two worlds, two worlds kind of colliding.

And sometimes it's like, this is really tricky. And sometimes it's like, this is brilliant. What are you like in those situations though? Are you someone that smooths out the ruffled feathers or do you get very tense? And does your heart start beating and your voice start going? Holly thinks that I start off kind of, you know, very reasonable.

But I think what I try to do is kind of hear it out. And then if I can't sort of steer it back towards what I think might work a bit better, then sometimes I do sort of like shut down a bit. Like I sort of fit, I feel that happening sometimes where I just kind of zone out and I'm, I'm like, I don't know when I'll get back in at some point, but I'm not, I'm out. You get things done though, right? You move beyond problems. Oh yeah. We get, yeah. We always kind of get to the place we need to get to in the end. It's just that, you know, writers rooms are kind of odd because the place we need to get to in the end it's just you know writers rooms are kind of odd because they've got lots of personalities and like you were saying there you know is there a

chief I don't think there is I think everyone's kind of you know wants what they want but like with divorce you know there was people sort of writing for it and there was kind of two you know chiefs in in the writer room which was me and paul so paul simpson we kind of um you can kind of shut something down and sort of pick something up and you can kind of just i mean i keep saying manipulate and it's not the right word but you know you can just kind of make it go in the direction you think it should go yeah and you're you're setting the tone for the thing yeah and you're saying well this isn't really this doesn't feel like yeah whereas like in in in divorce i could say that doesn't feel like the joke that doesn't feel

like the character would say that whereas in this one in motherland because there's there's four people super invested you kind of go i don't think she'd say that and someone will say well i think she would and here's why like so there's no you can't shut things down yeah you can sort of have really constructive argument but you can't you things down. Yeah, yeah. You can sort of have really constructive argument, but you can't, you know, shut it down. Right. That's all right, though. It's interesting. It is interesting.

I find it strange. I mean, I've never been good at writing with other people. Had Rob Delaney written anything for TV before you and he did Catastrophe? No. I mean, he'd done like, you know, you've been doing stand-up for ages but no he'd written nothing um narratively yeah and so did he just take to the whole thing quite easily was he happy did he have a sort of instinct for how things should be structured or were you kind of leading the way on that and he would just say weird stuff? I think he took to it supernaturally.

I think he didn't have a clue about structure, but he had an instinctive kind of just natural ability to know where a story should go or, you know, characters, dialogue. He wouldn't have sort of seen sort of bigger picture stuff or series narrative, but his super gift is dialogues and do either of you read books about how you structure things and no stuff i hate because that's one thing i know that graham lenehan likes to do graham starts drawing a story circle and i do you draw one more i dare i dare you draw one more story circle I know he hasn't been that bad in

in the room he does it the odd time and sometimes I get kind of a little fascinated by it but then I I just think you know if I'm if I'm telling you a story about what happened yesterday I hope I'm gonna you know tell it in a way that sort of it has a bit of a payoff and there's you know a bit in the middle where you think like oh I think the story's going to go this way and you know so everyone has that kind of natural ability to sort of make things tell them in the most interesting way possible yeah so or or they don't or they don't um and I find myself often launching into something and I think I'm going to start recounting this thing that happened to me the other day and then halfway through talking about it I realized that it's not a story and it doesn't deserve to be told and maybe it had a semi

interesting beginning or some colorful characters but actually there's no satisfying payoff whatsoever do you think you used to be better on it though because no really I've never been good at that really I don't think that's why my dream is to one day be married with not literally married but professionally to someone who's got all that covered and i come in and i just sprinkle talking dust and stupid bullshit around you know sentence enhancers and stuff yeah and then and then gradually by process of osmosis, I'll pick up story structure. And, you know, because I've got my moments. I feel like I get better at it.

I've got more of a sense after you're on stage for a while. You have an instinctive feel for what the audience wants and what would make them happy. And you're not just trying to make them happy. You're not just trying to service their needs. But you begin to understand what would make them uh first of all calm and then excited and then satisfied yeah and that's the same as telling a story i guess isn't it there's a lot of things around that are billed as storytelling nights or podcasts or things like that and really some of the stories are barely stories are they you know what i mean though i did do one really good one with um

lisa hannigan and dylan haskins called is it called soundings and you had to tell three stories one of them was to make you laugh one of them was to frighten you and one of them was to make you you know feel some kind of sadness and I really enjoyed doing that I really enjoyed hearing other people's stories with those kind of parameters but it was the fact because it was in front of a live audience and you know I rarely do live stuff it was that feeling of like oh I'm kind of uh this isn't stand-up but I definitely feel like I want the I want this audience to laugh and I want to get that immediate kind of reaction I want to take them on a journey yeah but i really i really enjoyed it i thought it was a fun thing to do but yeah i know what you mean they're kind of planned it out before yeah i absolutely did because i it would

it makes me very nervous doing anything like that because the thing about real life is that it seldom provides satisfying punch lines you know i mean it does sometimes but more often than not to make a story from real life work you've got to tag something on yeah that gives it a bit of meaning and yeah you're a lesson or whatever yeah it is yeah i think i read somewhere that you and rob when you're doing catastrophe you set a rule for yourself that everything would be anecdotally real is that right oh yeah well we definitely started off like that yeah so there would all be incidents or things that had happened to either you or people you know yeah yeah so all sort of based in in some kind of reality and that

and i think it made those stories a little bit easier to tell because in a way we had to trust that even if it was you know harsh or they did seemingly the wrong thing we can go well look that's what we did that's what we felt and so we're going to go with it so it made us a bit more confident with some of the sort of trickier storylines but as it's gone on and we've been talking about this a lot recently actually because it's just gone out in the states you know on, on Amazon. Oh, right, yeah. And so we've been having to talk a lot and say the same things over and over again. But really, the more you write about those characters,

the more you get to know them and the more they kind of have their own personalities. Like the Rob Norris that's now in Series 3 is quite a bit different from, you know, the 50% Rob Delaney that was in Series 1. And also stuff has happened to them along the way and the story has built up and so it's about paying off those stories rather than having to always like think of new stuff and the same with all the characters in it actually all

the characters have developed their own sort of personalities and histories and all of that and mistakes well what's the name forgive me for i never know the names of characters i can't imagine if i don't know what's the name of rob's friend with the white hair chris chris he's played by mark bonnard yeah he's brilliant he's so good and he's really i thought come into focus yeah before i felt that he was sort of good comedically as just a kind of maddie you You know what I mean? Who you couldn't, you didn't really know where he was coming from. And he was just like totally off the chart. Yeah. Strange. A lot of the time. But now he's much more sympathetic and you can sort of see where he's coming from a little bit and yeah he's really taken shape yeah he is a toughy and there's quite a sort of harsh way of looking at things but he's because of rob's alcoholic sort of storyline this series he's been the best person to sort of discover it first because he knows exactly how to deal with it and it's just by giving his really super honest most straightforward way of

telling him opinion and then leave it up to him and just wise like he's kind of become this sort of wise character but yeah i think that's because terrible things have happened to him as well you know and he doesn't have a wife anymore and but he's sort of realized he misses her and doesn't have a great relationship with his son and he's really like what now what's the point all that's left is the sky football package do you find it like going back to the whole idea of taking stories from real life that sometimes are kind of meaningless you know most of life is more or less meaningless right in some ways things just happen and there seems to be no rhyme or reason and it's just bad luck or good luck but then in drama you sort of want there to be a bit

more meaning sometimes and you feel a little bit short-changed i do as an audience member i don't think everyone does if there isn't you know what i mean so do you sit down and do you talk boldly about like how do we make this mean something how do we make this hopeful yeah we really do i think it helps us to have that kind of bigger picture sort of thesis thing you know because then we kind of know what the series is about and so it becomes less about these individual episodes and more about the overall feeling of it and what we're trying to say and what it means to even be living in the world at this time or what it means to be that age or what it means to feel nothing about something.

And like anything that sort of helps us so it doesn't feel like just a bunch of jokes, you know? Yeah, it's got some substance to it. Yeah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah I really love talking to you so much Is your dad still with us? Yes. So that was you imagining the death of a parent? Yes.

It was a weird one, really, because I felt odd about it, because it's my dad. And my parents, ever since the show started, kind of feel like they are slightly those characters a little bit. Or not feel like they are them, but feel like bit or not not feel like they are them but feel like I've definitely you know you've plundered the memory box well because I have in so many other ways like my relationship with my brother Fergal on screen is like a little bit based on you know my relationship with my two brothers combined and you know and

and we we take the mickey out of it but that's what a golden child sort of syndrome you know my brother is international rugby playing superstar in Ireland and it was kind of like a tough thing to compete with especially as I'm nearly 10 years older than him and I was like literally doing nothing with my life when he was sort of running out onto pitches in Paris to the roars of the crowd and so there's definitely like they see so much real life in there that they kind of obviously think, well, that's that must be sort of us. So it felt weird to kill him. But, you know, they're not unusual stories. That's like happening constantly around us. And people seem to when they first start responding to the show, liked us talking about stuff that they were having to deal with and that they felt included in somewhere they felt like

there's a conversation there or you know and things that are usually seen as being antithetical to comedy i know yeah and it kind of makes them difficult to deal with in a half hour sitcom anyway yeah but you've managed to to do it yeah and and I think the fact the fact that it's comedy kind of helps because you get to have those heartbreaking moments but you can follow them up with a really cheap joke or you know you can cut the tension or you know and also you feel those I think more emotional moments more when when you've sort of been laughing a couple of minutes before but yeah so we we gave you know we we made him poorly and and we knew it had to go somewhere. And I'm not sure we were so interested in seeing a man deteriorate on screen.

I mean, those things you can do in comedy, that's kind of hard. Yeah. So you've got to judge it right that you don't just get people switching off. Yeah. Yes. Because at the end, you know, a lot of the time people are like, fucking hell. I know. I don't need this now. I know. yeah yes because at the end you know a lot of the time people are like fucking hell i know i don't need this now i know so you know we we sort of did it in one episode really

and um yeah also we didn't like that actor i'm joking we loved him so much and it was the it was the saddest thing yeah the saddest thing like well and the other sad thing of course is is real life killing off one of your other actors it was the maddest maddest maddest thing and it was totally unexpected we're talking about Carrie Fisher of course so I imagine that really knocked everybody for six I mean it did in the in the whole world oh god I mean completely we were it made no sense to us, you know, because we had been filming together just up until a couple of days before. And she was so excited for what was coming up next.

And, you know, the book hadn't been out very long. And she was sort of had this newfound enthusiasm for her acting, you know. And actually, it graham norton said in the last star wars movie the one that i guess is the next one to come out she was excited for her performance in it excited for what she'd done in it because she could be kind of a little bit cynical about that world and you know that that whole sort of circus that had built itself around her because of those movies but But, and her, I think in her performance in our episode six was just so great, you know, so funny, but she really knew that we wanted to just tell the audience a little bit more

about her and why she was how she was. So she was so there and involved and full of a kind of lust for life and and it made no sense at all and in fact it made so no sense i thought well she's gonna get better i mean i i i didn't i mean it was a shock when i heard about the heart attack but i i felt sort of optimistic that yeah it would be okay and then her poor old ma like the day after was it or something yeah i didn't know that much about you know i knew superficially about her life and about debbie reynolds but i watched on a plane the documentary bright lights is it called yeah i haven't been able to watch it yet actually i would think that it would be tough i think it would be tough because that is that is her i mean she had she

was talking about a lot and she was you know she was talking about it a lot and she was, you know, she was excited for it coming out and maybe a little nervous. But that was her, like, exactly. Any of the clips I sort of saw. And I think it was tough even doing our edit because there she was, like, a week earlier or whatever. And it felt so not right. You know, it was really upsetting.

But yeah, no, I couldn't, I haven't't sort of i think i will watch it at some point but it's because she talked about it quite a lot she talked about her family a lot yeah and her brother and you know that's the thing i had no clue all i knew was postcards from the edge yeah carrie fisher yeah thing taking a lot of pills and warring with her mother and actually at, at the end, it was this symbiosis, you know. They lived right next door to each other. And they had this sweet, funny double act thing going, the way they related. And yeah, it was really heartbreaking,

the thought of how devastated she would have been without her. I had no clue that she was so loyal and so devoted to her family and that when her dad eddie fisher who had behaved like quite a rotter in a lot of ways throughout her life when he was at the end of his life she went and cared for him and uh i didn't know that i didn't know that either yeah and and she was just there you know he was all fucked up and but he was clearly so grateful and so touched by the fact that she had put all that stuff behind her, you know, and just said, I'm your daughter. I'm going to be here for you. It was really very moving.

Yeah. Well, she sort of looked after herself in that way. Yeah. And you can see, I mean, it's everything is there. in that way yeah and you can see i mean it's everything is there and the way she didn't really look after herself and she just sort of pushed it to one side is there there's clues there as to yeah the way she behaved and you can sort of see that but all and also her um her bipolar was she bipolar yes yeah so so her mood swings because of that and how frustrated she would get with herself when she was in a manic state

and she says at one point i wrote it down you know what would have been so cool to get to the end of my personality and just lay in the sun i'm sick of myself she says at one point and you know everyone knows that whether they're bipolar or not you know that feeling right yeah um but that she was so self-aware in that way i wish i'd known her better i wish that that was the beginning of our amazing friendship and it felt like it was even knowing her for so short a time um i felt like she gave massive amounts of fucks yeah just kind of naturally you know it was just in her to sort of help we were doing a um a screening of the show at trebecca and um rob couldn't make it for personal reasons and just on the off chance said do you think you might be able to do it and she was being given an i think it was an honorary doctor or something from harvard so she was like would

have been driving from boston that morning and still sort of just drove there um and came and did that stupid show with me for an hour and um I think it was just a genuinely nice friend thing to do you know yeah great that for you and for her I suppose that you had that relationship when you did you know and that she was doing good stuff right yeah until the end that that's a that's a lovely thing to have. We knew she was happy and we knew she'd had a good time and she was proud of herself and, you know, I think in a good sort of space. But, yeah. Thank you. How much time do you get to watch TV yourself? I mean, not a huge amount.

I'm so weird about TV. Like, like you know I find it really hard to commit to something unless I know for definite and I've heard it from various sources and you know critics and every you know like I'll be like right I'll dive in then what was the last thing that you successfully dived into a search party so I don't even know about search oh and I can't even know about Search Party I can't even think of what channel it's on but it's sick Men and Motors There's so many channels There's a lot of channels

But I do spend a lot of time watching drama but I guess I watch the kind of like I've just started watching the third season of Better Call Saul Oh it's so good Getting better and better But there is always little moments of funny in that as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Search party.

The disappearance of former college acquaintance Chantal leads several 20-somethings to get entangled in the mystery of how she went missing. See? It's a good hook. But what I mean is even without that hook, they're very, very watchable as a foursome. That sounds good.

Have you seen Big Little Lies? lies no i haven't and i really have to watch that i feel like there's a lot thematically a lot of stuff that um is familiar from watching your stuff you know like they're doing it very differently but it's the kind of um maddening school dynamics with mums and other children. Right. And all that area. And as I say, exploring it in a very different way. Yeah.

And everyone's beautiful and sexy. Exactly, yeah. Beautiful and sexy and beautiful homes. But very quickly you've got this really grim motif about domestic abuse uh and i would say pretty much all the men in it are more or less worthless and there's a character horrible character played by alexander skarsgård who plays nicole kidman's husband who's just a full-on psycho, rotter, wife-beater. But they do this thing where, like, at the early stages of all their septus, he will be getting into these arguments that sound quite familiar to me.

Do you know what I mean? Oh, really? Yeah, like some of the pathetic things he gets his back up about. I think, oh, I've probably had those kinds of arguments. Oh, so it's in a good way they're familiar to you not like you've seen them before in a way that makes me feel like oh i'm evil too do you know what i mean just because i can relate to some of the setups because he's a horrible guy right and he just he's a monster i think oh maybe i'm a monster i would like to make it absolutely

clear that there's no that you are't imagine that you are a monster. It would be so weird if you turned out to be a monster. It would make me question everything, probably. Like, I think being passive aggressive, even though I know that's not a real thing, you know what I mean? Like, what people mean by being passive aggressive. Yeah. That kind of toxic behavior when people shut down and don't really talk about what's on their mind

and just poison the atmosphere. That's a kind of violence, don't you think? I mean, it's not as bad probably as getting the shit beaten out of you. Yeah. I mean, being psychologically fucked with is no fun either. But yeah, I think I'd take it over getting the shit kicked out of me.

Yeah, definitely. I'm not suggesting that's what I'm like, by the way. I'm terrific. Oh, okay. Well, I hope so. I bounce around the house laughing and joking. I'm definitely not. I definitely don't bounce around.

I mean, I bounce around the house sometimes. I think I'm less sort of fun than I used to be. It's terrible. Why? Because you're too busy? Yeah, and I think I just worry about of fun than I used to be. It's terrible. Why? Because you're too busy. Yeah. And I think I just worry about more things than I used to. And I just don't think I'm as patient or nice as I used to be. You're a couple of years younger than I, I think.

Am I? Mid-40s sort of thing, right? I'm mid-40s, yeah. Yeah. So this is probably one of the more stressful times of your life, you would think, right? You're right in the middle of it. You're children. You've got a couple of children. They're entering their teenage years.

You're trying to be a nice mum, a nice wife. Your career is busy, going well, but you've got to maintain that. People are starting to die in your life. And, you know, it's all like all kicking off in these years it's that's a pretty intense tunnel don't you think i feel like that yeah and i'm not even that busy there's definitely stress from a lot of factors that that wasn't sort of there previously i think the main thing that is stressful apart from having a teenager which would rate pretty highly, is work. Just like running a business, you know, like taking on responsibility.

Why would you set up a company? Why? You're a maniac. Well, because, don't say that. I mean, I'm sure it's going to be really great and successful, but why would you want to take on that level of extra stuff just to have more control and to get more projects I think it was like more control initially but I don't know I like working with people I like working on people's ideas I find it very hard to switch off I you know I don't want to write it all I like you know sort of having ideas and sort of bouncing stuff around and then meeting the right people to work with and and I love I do collaborating. Like I don't love working on my own. I like to

sort of be around people and have creative conversations about story. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yeah, but it's also extreme to have a building that has people in it that whose wages I have to pay now. But, um, and like part of me when i'm feeling really scared wants to um get in a time machine and and just go back to but that's when would you go when would you go back to what was the simplest time in sharon hawkins life oh i wouldn't say it was like the best time because i was definitely nervous about a bunch of stuff but i had a little office in bark where you know when I was working with Damon Beasley and Ian Morris yeah and I was just writing there I was writing like

show with Holly I was writing um writing with Dennis I was you know Dennis Kelly who you did pulling with yeah and just made the circuit with a little while ago and we were just like writing just sitting in a room writing and laughing and no one really wanted anything from me which wasn't great but you know the idea of what might happen or could happen with these things was exciting and yet there was no huge responsibility but then you have all these wild dreams then your wildest dreams like pay off and the things that you're writing are kind of getting made and then i i always feel so bad talking about this because i know i am you know the luckiest girl alive but you're then you're just

on this sort of sausage factory kind of yeah of like having to keep this thing moving and you know because that's successful then some someone else will want to give you the opportunity to make something you're like that's great and and I can't turn that down because I mean that's I never expected to be offered that that's insane okay I'll take that and and suddenly you're kind of more worried about letting people down than you are deadlines and being the thing you've promised to be to everyone and did you ever talk about that kind of thing and those pressures with Carrie Fisher or have you talked about them with someone like Sarah Jessica Parker who must have had a lot of those same pressures no because I think I am a little bit I mean it doesn't make sense because I'm talking to you about it but I do try and sort of keep that stuff to myself a

little bit right you don't want to focus on it too much yeah and I don't want it to you know I think oh that's like a weakness and also I guess it does make you seem like you're at your depth. I guess I do end up, when I do talk to sort of women in the industry who are very hard-working mothers, we do end up talking about that side of thing, but more sort of through the prism of kids and how tricky it is to work away from home and those kind of things. I'm talking to you about it so that's that'll do me for a while get out of my system all right but you can just refer people to this podcast yeah i talked about it i'm never ever going to speak about it again um how did your relationship with sarah jessica parker begin then she was you sort of put on a business date is that right yeah we were set up on a on a business date i guess i had been working with hbo years before off the back of pulling they they wanted me to write

something for them and so i wrote a bunch of scripts that never got made but they put them in a vault and then maximum security chuckle vault yeah and uh and then i brought them this new idea um that I was quite excited about and they bought this new idea from me and then they said okay just you know it's a bit left field but will you go meet Sarah Jessica Parker and I thought it was oh you mean to talk about this new idea I brought you that's great and they were like no it's you know it's something else so immediately I knew if anything happens with this Sarah Jessica Parker thing, my other thing's definitely not going to get made

because they're not going to do, you know, two things with me. So I kind of had to mentally adjust to the idea that really they were kind of, you know, pushing me towards this other situation. SJP vehicle. Yeah, so we just, we met for lunch with her business partner, Alison Benson. And she fixed you with her piercing eyes.

She piercing eyes me and they were tremendous eyes to be pierced with. And she'd only, she hadn't seen anything I'd made. She had read the scripts that were in the chuckle vault and, and I'd liked them and they sort of chimed with what she wanted to do. So then I was like, went back to HBO and I said, okay, I'll, they said, well, you, you you know write up a treatment and so i did that and i was never sort of thinking anything would happen with it if i'm honest and we just sort of made the catastrophe pilot so that was like you know we never weren't

sure if anything was going to happen with that either so this is when like 2013 i don't know years or dates but yeah it was a while ago and um 1860 yeah i guess it was 20 shit was it yeah something around there in 2013 early 2014 maybe um so yeah so i wrote this thing and then it was so surprising they picked up the script and then surprised when they picked up the pilot and then suddenly i'm making this show and you know my other idea is just you know a forgotten thing but um what was that idea are you allowed to say or are you going to save it for another well i might save it for another time yeah because i think it's quite a good idea and farm boy on a planet uh his uncle and aunt get killed by local gestapo troops it's not it's not i mean you're in the right ballpark um he's got a laser sword

uh no i mean i'm still trying to do something with it now but yeah that it was just very full-on because um because then catastrophe was picked up so i was kind of doing both in the one year and that was insane and i kind of lost my marbles a little bit it was too much and i was trying to do everything brilliant arguments that year with with everyone yeah yeah it wasn't great but you know we've kind of gotten over it and adjusted well done yeah it's impressive that's half the battle isn't it is yeah figuring i mean i say this as if those kinds of pressures have ever been exerted on me i just don't know what i would i think my wife i think probably she would have to move out we'd have to all move out together i don't

know if we could well we were we were gonna do that absolutely and it's what i'd always sort of done before even though it was for shorter periods of time but my daughter had just started secondary school and it just felt like completely the wrong thing too much upheaval yeah completely i mean she was starting this school and and and that was such a big thing anyway but as it turns out it was such an enormous thing for me not to be around during those initial sort of months of a new school i mean i say months we were back and forth a lot but it was um you know it was horrific and i got into this weird sort of work bubble where i was just sort of around the clock kind of working because i'd finished on divorce and then i'd work on catastrophe in the evening and merman stuff give yourself no time to actually dwell on how much you miss them

i guess yeah well that of course but then also you've got like the facetiming several times a day instead of reading stories down your phone like trying to find a quiet like corner and you know the guilt of not finding that quiet corner or not you know like the guilt of not finding that quiet corner or not, you know, like the guilt of seeing a FaceTime of your child come up and not wanting to answer it because you're trying to go, right, I have to leave this meeting and that's fine, but where do I go? And just the odd night, just feeling like,

maybe they won't want a story tonight. And maybe like that, those sort of horrible feelings. Technology can really make you feel very lonely as well. won't want a story tonight and maybe like that those sort of horrible feelings technology can um really make you feel very lonely as well i mean like phone calls long distance phone calls to partners and things yeah so difficult to say what you mean or conclude them in a satisfactory way and it's the worst there's nothing good about it it's the worst and like with my children like my third my 13 year old always had lots of terrible stuff to tell me so she was had plenty you know she would chat but my eight-year-old wouldn't engage with me because screw that why would she want you know

they're not that chatty unless it's something very specific you know they don't just want to shoot the breeze with you yeah exactly so I had to set up this thing where just to get her to want to call me or see her face i had you know it's like doing this story like kind of thing where i'd be doing the episodic thing i'd find these sort of episodic and i'd be reading them into the end of the face yeah yeah like reading from two phones like looking at her down one and reading the other one from the other phone. And I mean, and it worked. But yeah, I would not recommend it to anyone. But must have been fun working on the show. I thought Divorce was really great.

I loved it. Oh, thank you. And working with all those people. Yeah. She's great. Sarah Jessica Parker. Thomas Hayden Church is magnificent. Yeah.

God, he's funny. I mean, I like him. He's one of those people like Jeff Goldblum that you just, you're not fussed what they're in. Oh, I know. You just want to watch them. I know. And Molly Shannon and Tracy Letts. But yeah, they were all, you know, it's a ridiculous sort of stellar cast.

And, you know, the sort of writing team behind it. And I think maybe I felt like overawed by that and like responded to it by trying to do everything you know because I thought this is what I've been brought here to do this is what I've been hired to do and just trying to be in everywhere at once and sort of project an image of being in control and not being flaky yeah yeah and I think not that you're a flaky person anyway no not at all but I also didn't realize I think that there's so many people working I think not that you're a flaky person anyway no not at all but I also didn't realize I think that there's so many people working on those shows that you can sort of like chill the bean a bit and you know not have to be every second on set and every second in the edit

and every second in the writer's room and you know control all casting and you know it was I just think I learned how to relinquish a little bit, which is helpful moving forward. I haven't heard the expression, chill the bean. Yes, you have. What kind of bean are you chilling? I don't know. I don't know what, edamame? Oh.

I don't know. I was thinking coffee beans. Oh. Like a nice frappuccino. Is that a chilled bean? Maybe. I don't know i really i really enjoyed divorce so much and uh do you have a lot of experience of divorce in your life no not at all i mean you're gonna get divorced uh i don't i don't i don't know i mean hopefully not do you ever

entertain divorce scenarios when you've had a particularly bad argument with your partner and do you sort of sometimes i find myself thinking the whole process right the way through do you know what i mean like the practical aspects of what would happen oh god of course yeah i guess everyone does that i don't know if everyone does but yeah i mean i surely do and i'm definitely my husband does as well i mean you know i've in my mind bought houses around the corner, you know. I mean, it's incredible that it's so common. About, I guess, 50% of marriages end in divorce. Is it?

I think it is. And all these people are going through it, people that all of us know. Yeah. And it must be a fucking nightmare. It must be a fucking nightmare. And people just deal with it. I guess some people do and some people don't maybe but i don't know i'm so scared of how bad it can get i mean that's what was interesting about

writing the show and like putting all my fears and that and like i haven't had much experience of it in my life because i'm irish and people don't in harlem they they don't get divorced so much but you know i had a a friend who went through it, who was very close to me, and I had some pretty sort of first-hand knowledge of it. But the actual how bad it can get and how it can rip people apart and how people can get to a point where they would rather put themselves through emotional and financial ruin than give an inch that might help

that other person's life out in some way you know and that's like not even thinking about how the children come into it um it's just it sounds horrific but like you said people do it all the time so maybe people are either sort of tougher than us or or yeah just sort of harder or something or i think being catholic or ex-catholic guilt would just play such a a huge part of my children's you know future um stability and relationship forming skills so and also that you could have invested all that emotional energy apart from everything else in just the wrong person you know what i mean yeah that would really ah you you would just feel like such a burk whereas i mean are you good at saying sorry like in and no you're not really not and it's terrible

it's a real real real problem it's a real issue because i think half the time usually if you do say oh i am sorry you know i was a dick and you and you slightly go into maybe the reasons that you are just that because it's usually something else that's triggered it and yeah it's like then you do get a little bit back and it's like well i you know i maybe i could have said that differently and i didn't mean that other thing by the way and then it's oh you're okay again you're back on solid ground there's a problem with i just feel it too deeply and i i my body kind of like shuts down like emotionally i go blank my eyes go dead all my organs are going to fail and i just it's kind of it's like trying to it's a really really tough job to sort of crank up the shutter

me up again right and uh so it's not as simple of course it's not simple it's by no means simple and i'm not for a second if my wife ever this, she will be rolling her eyes and going, oh, he's making himself sound like he's a genius at this. Hey, everybody in the modern time. They got to get themselves a podcast. I will do yours and you'll do mine. We're sorting out the problems of the world so fast. You smell very nice, Sharon. Oh, thank you.

What do you smell of? I smell of two things mixed, but they're two different kinds of patchouli. Oh, patchouli. Why does patchouli have a bad rap? Because of hippies. Yeah, but they must have just smelled great. I really like patchouli. Well, I think patchouli, when it's covering up something.

Oh, I see. You know. When it's covering up rank body odor. Yeah, when it's covering up rank body odor and socks that have been worn for too long. Which is presumably what it was designed for in the first place, right? I don't know. But yeah, maybe. But so it's just straightforward essential oil patchouli and then a bit of of lalabo which is a kind of uh i've heard

about lalabo perfume patchouli i think um tash dimitri was telling me about lalabo oh really yeah it's nice well it's working it sounds nice we went to that what have you got i've got argan oil it's really nice it smells like um like fresh dad. Yeah, like a fresh dad. That's what I am. We went to Morocco recently. Made a real impression on me, Morocco. Really? Yeah, I have, yeah, a couple of times.

It's pretty great, isn't it? Yeah, I love the square. Where did you go, Marrakesh? We went to Marrakesh. We were also in the mountains a little bit i was talking on this podcast a few episodes back about getting classically done by some fellow who showed us the way to the square and then demanded like a hundred pounds yeah and acted very angry when i was like really that seems a lot just for showing us the way to the square for 30 seconds yeah i had that but once you get used to the the way things are done out there i think

and you relax a little bit and you don't take everything so personally yeah it's terrific and one of the things that happened when we were being uh shown around marrakesh by this guide one one afternoon was that he he occasionally would just drop us off places, most of which turned out to be establishments run by friends or cousins, as you say. And we would be expected to spend lots of money in there. And then he'd shove us onto the next one. But one of them was what appeared to be like a doctor's waiting room or an apothecary or something. You know what I mean? Lots of people sat around on chairs and kind of charts on the walls and people wearing white coats and things.

We get led up the stairs and we're in this room that's just covered in shelves with jars and potions and unguents and oils and stuff. And none of this has been explained to us. And the guy buggers off and we're just there with these people a couple of guys one of whom is uh acting like willie wonka or something telling us all about all these oils and natural herbs and remedies and things and we're like yeah i'm sure that's great but why are we here we don't want to be here and the children are glazing over because you can't think of a more boring place if you're a child, can you? No. White coats and things in jars that aren't sweets. Did you buy anything? Yes.

Yes, what did you buy? We bought a lot of things. Did you? Yeah, like about 200 quids worth. What? Of what? Oh. After what, you know, because we bought a couple of things.

He brought out this pot and he opened it up and there was sort of black crushed up it looked like crushed coal in there or seeds or something and he said take take a sniff take a big sniff so i have a big sniff and this incredibly powerful it was like vicks but it more or less burned the back of my sinuses and gave me a huge headache and almost made me pass out and he's like yeah you took a big sniff didn't you maybe that was too much of a big sniff but what you do is you you you put it into a cloth a little cloth and you grind it up and you can smell it's like vicks like vicks he was saying himself like vicks yes but this is real this is natural and all these things it was like you were in a kind of

wizard's lab and it was and we all started getting into it and the children were like wow that's cool and then he goes take your shirt off i was like what take your shirt off no i'm not gonna take my shirt off no no come on take your shirt off i said no i'm definitely not gonna take my even in front of my wife and children i'm ashamed of what's underneath so i'm not gonna take my shirt off he's like okay but he wanted to give me a massage right really yeah with all this oil and stuff and that was great too well he did he gave you a massage well his assistant did oh but with your shirt on with my shirt on he i unbuttoned the top button obligingly did you yeah and he how would you would you i mean obviously you wouldn't pop your top off but would you be happy to get a massage i mean i've been a bit

weird about massages since i had a massage in rome i i ended up putting it the the story in catastrophe because it turned into a tit a tit massage right so um tell us the story of the tit massage well we we my husband and I had gone to um Rome and I guess it was you know kind of semi-romantic thing we got away from the kids I think we've left our kids for three weekends over the course of the 13 years we're not very good at it because i go away a lot anyway and so we invited to our lovely room in the hotel we're staying in in rome uh massaging duo to come to our room to massage us and this was something that was offered by the hotel was it or well no my husband booked it oh i see and i don't know you know how he was recommended these particular people but um it was a man and a woman and so i was like oh okay

and then she automatically you know started setting herself up with my um husband and so so i was like all right so i'm getting like that's fine this is fine and so we lay down and and just sort of midway through the massage he said you know you can turn over now and he didn't speak English so it was all sort of sign language so I turned over on my back and uh he started massaging my belly and I've never had a belly massage I mean usually it's back neck shoulders bit of leg and have you ever had a belly massage no I wouldn't want one I didn't particularly um like it all that's gonna do is scramble up the food and cause some farting isn't it well it all causes

farting but yeah particularly a belly massage and so he's like massaging my belly and i was thinking this is a little strange and then he just he just led up to my boobs and I thought hmm that's a special place I'm not sure but maybe it's a Rome thing like maybe tip massage is as regular as you know a hand job but then I thought then in my head I was thinking maybe my husband paid for this like maybe maybe he asked for a sexy romantic massage and then I thought no that can't be and like the whole time i was trying to figure it out he was still massaging my tits and would you have been happy if that was the situation i don't know adam buxton don't ask me that on your public podcast system um was your husband in the same room as you yeah but he was like passed out like

when you massage a big man, they seem to fall asleep after about three to five minutes. Right, they're suddenly relaxed. Yeah. So I was like eyes wide open kind of thing. And so at one point I was trying to catch his eye, but then, you know, I think the problem was, by then I was kind of like, it's kind of quite nice.

And then I was all, you know, confused emotionally. And so at the end, I just legged it into the bathroom and I just stayed there. And I thought, well, you know, I mean, my husband's got to deal with that. I'm not going to, you know, because the whole like, what do I tip him or think him up. Get his phone number. Yeah. So anyway, so I made a bit of a song and dance about it when my husband woke up. And I was like, man, I'm massaging my tits. And then I thought, well, you know, I probably could have done something about it.

It was too many questions. I got a lot of questions. Sure. But, you know. Where can we get them again? It's such a good story. I'm always happy when shit things happen to me. Right. Because I just think they're a great story. You rub your hands and you think, right, it's such a good, it's a good story. I'm always happy when shit things happen to me. Right.

Because I just think they're. You rub your hands and you think, right, that's going in. Because I can separate, you know, the genuine tragedy from what is a good sort of meaty bit of story. And I think if you fiddle with a couple of things, then you're all set. Whereas like Holly Walsh, for example, who is part of the Motherland writing team writing she can't separate the original sad story from there you know even if it's really really good she she goes well no that that's that the original you know the genesis of that is too sad too sad but i guess i'm just a bit harsher now you know a bit more like hungry for story yeah anywhere plus you're happy to leave some of those

unhappy bones in there that's true yeah yeah you don't fill it the whole thing yeah and how was your husband with the whole thing was he surprised to hear that it had happened or yeah i mean he wasn't offered a similarly sexy that's what i that's what i, nothing went on. I think he found it interesting. I mean, nothing much has to go on, I would say for a lot of men, for it to be quite an around. I mean, I, I, I find myself feeling inappropriate when I get my hair cut sometimes. Really? Yeah.

That's what, you mean when they do the head massage thing? Yes. Because it's just physical contact. You know what I mean? I feel. When someone just touches you. I, I. Oh, thank you. I love you. I kind of kind of i have that as well i have that feeling too even the dentist

i've had little kind of my god he's really really looking into my mouth my soul into my mouth soul why does he's pretending to be a dentist because he wants to stare at your soul his whole career yeah pizza dinner even pizza guys oh well that's just porn no it is it's it's nice though those moments with strangers those little i mean it must be weird for them i suppose because they must be aware that it's going on sometimes they don't want to lead you on so i mean sometimes you can feel when you're getting your haircut that you're getting a bit of a non-committal shampoo yeah yeah because they

think oh god this creepy old guy is gonna be a guy is correct it's on so they get they either make the water much too hot or they really yank your scalp around. Has that happened to you? Sometimes. I'm sorry. It's okay. Sharon Horgan, a New Yorker article.

Do you read these articles back after you do an interview? I do, actually. Horgan is tall and pretty with slow eyes, S-L-O-E. I had to look that up there. Pronounced cheekbones and a strong jaw. I'm very jaw-y, it's true. Yeah. Jaws is your name in the industry.

It's your nickname. She once read an online comment observing that she has a short forehead. And it's true. Oh, the New Yorker. observing that she has a short forehead and it's true oh the new yorker though she so frequently musses her impressively thick straight hair but it's hard to notice i don't remember any reading any of that but the short forehead it's not something i've ever thought about oh we are we are a family of all my brothers and sisters have short foreheads. It's a really big joke in our family about who has the shortest one. It's my brother Shane.

But yeah, I always felt mine was slightly taller than the rest of them. So it gave me a feeling of superiority. She has an easy stylishness that inspires envy in her female colleagues. Adam, stop. Are you trying to shame me? No, I just like, I wanted to read this out in her female colleagues. Adam, stop. Are you trying to shame me? No, I just wanted to read this out in front of you. And a barking laugh that she unleashes generously, a disarming quality in someone with such an acerbic sense of humour.

That was written by someone called Willa Paskin. It's a nice article, actually. She was nice, Willa. Yeah. But that took, like, I'm'm not joking four or five meetings holy moses she she rings up everyone you've ever worked with she rings up everyone i ever worked with she came to the edit she you know came to my office there in new york we met for coffee we we had two phone calls and lunch and she rang up like phil clark at your commissioner at channel four

and stuff and she emailed with sarah jessica parker and yeah she put the work in that's good isn't it were you happy about that the new yorker profile did you think oh better not screw this one up i think like anything like even not even chatting to you i i really worry that i say the same old shit and i feel like i haven't got a super interesting story like there's people that i'm endlessly fascinated by and and i think rob is one of them because he has got this story of have you read his book yeah it's very good isn't it yeah and i've you know spent hours and weeks and months with him and rob delaney's book that is listeners but yeah i never feel like i have such an interesting story so for me like the fact that

she did speak to all those people who kind of maybe had more interesting things to say or the fact that she spent enough time kind of like trying to eke something to me it's like getting married getting all these testimonials from people in your life like that and i've heard you saying as well before that that the you don't particularly relish the sort of showbiz aspect of it the award ceremonies getting dolled up etc most of the time unless you're you know super famous utterly worthless and unimportant because there's always someone more interesting in front of you or behind you that That's true of life in general, isn't it? Yeah, it is. And so there's that feeling, which is horrible.

I love clothes, but I don't like the sort of really, you know, getting hoiked into things and having to, you know, worry about the way you look. I like hair and makeup, but I hate having posh hair and makeup done on me because I always feel like I look worse. And it looks really thick and it like shows up any sort of acne scars or whatever I kind of worry like physically I don't feel comfortable so therefore I you know my body language is awkward you know I get nervous around people like the movie I'm doing at the moment Kyle Chandler's in it who I've loved for years I don't know Kyle Chandler oh you know like Friday Night Lights and bloodline and right all shows that i have been recommended many times but never really seen yeah you should watch but he's brilliant and he came into the trailer the other morning and i i've got i've got rosacea so my face gets quite red unless

i sort of you know tamp it down and so i was sitting in the trailer with this really bright red face i didn't give a shit because i didn't think anyone would be there it was like the night shoot and everyone was already on set so i didn't even bother trying to cover it up and normally you sit in the makeup makeup first and then when your makeup's all done you go to hair and they put big hair on you but this time the makeup lady wasn't there so I was sat in the hair chair and she did my hair with these really hot sort of tongs and but so my face was bright purple so by the time Kyle Chandler came in I was you know I looked like a pig and it was like one in the morning because it was a night shoot and I was like

please don't look at me maybe if I keep looking down at my phone he won't make conversation with me but he bloody did because he's southern and really polite and he came over and introduced himself I swear to god I didn't even make eye contact with him. I just started talking about what I was watching on my phone, just trying to like show him the phone and telling him what shows he should watch. And I mean, by the time he left, he just thought I was some kind of mentalist. I met that Sharon. She's a real shallow person.

She just can't take her eyes off her phone. Is that how he talks yeah approximately yeah anyway you know it's just like it's just an awkwardness i mean listen i can relate it's the reason that i have uh always boycotted the oscars and the golden globes i won't go you've been strong on that throughout yeah i won't go yeah but people respect that I think and it's the main thing they think when they think about you

they just think he just he just doesn't he's got too much integrity he just won't go he won't go he would be it would

everyone would love to see him it would be more fun if he was there but that's who he is his integrity wins do you think people feel like that about sean penn when he doesn't turn up for things they're like why he would be making this so much more fun if penny was here

wait this is an advert for squarespace. Every time I visit your website, I see success. Yes, success. The way that you look at the world makes the world want to say yes. It looks very professional. I love browsing your videos and pics, and I don't want to stop. I love browsing your videos and pics and I don't want to stop. And I'd like to access your members area and spend in your shop. These are the kinds of comments people will say about your website if you build it with Squarespace.

Just visit squarespace.com slash buxton for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, because you will want to launch, use the offer code BUXTON to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. So put the smile of success on your face with Squarespace. Yes. Continue. Sharon Horgan there. One of the busiest people I know, I think, but also one of the nicest and funniest. So I'm very grateful to her for giving up her time. It's a windy day today. There's some birds over there going absolutely nuts.

As usual, I wouldn't be able to tell you what they were. Back in episode 43, a couple of minutes into that episode, you may remember that I had a bit of bants with a bird there, a single bird, an attractive single bird, and various people got in touch, usually via my blog adam-buxton.co.uk to suggest which kind of bird it might be the consensus seemed to be and i did my own research as well and this backed it up that it was either a willow warbler or a chiff chaff but anyway that sound was its call here's a reminder of the call Yeah, willow warbler or chiff chaff. Rosie, come on, let's head back, sweetie. Here she comes, the hairy bullet.

It's a flypast. Very nice. Hello, listeners. I'm in London now, just about to upload this podcast and then head to the BFI for a bug show. But I realized that I hadn't mentioned the fact that this is the last in the current run of weekly episodes. There will be more conversations arriving on a regular weekly basis from mid-September of this year. from mid-September of this year. And between now and then,

there may well be the odd episode arriving whenever there's time to get it together, including in the next few weeks, a short chat and some specially recorded music from one of my favourite bands, Spoon, who I met up with a few weeks ago. And I'm going to be supporting them when they play in Manchester and Glasgow later this month. I'll be doing short sets before they come on stage. You know, my usual kind of laptop

nonsense. And you can also expect the first of what I hope might be an occasional series of podcasts that were recorded while on holiday. I went skiing with my family just after Christmas at the end of 2016 and I recorded some bits and pieces while I was out there and I thought it would be fun to share it with you. So it's going to be basically a conversation with one of my friends who I was out there with, but framed by a few holiday audio snaps, as it were, to give you more of a feel for where we were. It'll be like being on holiday with buckles. Wow, what a great thought.

So keep an eye on your podcast feed, and for the time being, back to my previously recorded outro. All right, listeners, that's it for this week. Thanks very much indeed to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for production support and to Matt Lamont for conversation editing. And thank you very much for downloading. Till next time, be careful, take good care of yourselves and each other. I love you.

Bye! And subscribe. Please like and subscribe. Give me like a smile and a thumbs up. Nice like a pat when we bums up. Give me like a smile and a thumbs up. Nice like a pat when we bums up. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Please like and subscribe.

Give me like a smile and a thumbs up. Nice like a pat when we bums up. Give me like a smile and a thumbs up. Nice like a pat when we bums up. Bye. សូវាប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់បានប់� Thank you.