The Bechdel Cast - Save the Last Dance with Khadija Mbowe

Episode Date: February 8, 2024

On this episode, Jamie, Caitlin, and special guest Khadija Mbowe learn some new dance moves and discuss Save the Last Dance. Follow Khadija at @khadija.mbowe on IG and TikTok, @KhadijaMbowe on YouTube, and check out @operatikaevents on IG  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Oh, hey there, teenager on the train that I sat next to. Who, me? Do you like ballet? Yes. But do you still do it? No, and I don't want to talk about it. Oh, okay, sorry. Ballet killed my mother, okay?

Oh, geez. There, I said it. Ballet in my mother. Okay. There, I said it. Ballet in my dreams killed my mother. Okay. Are you happy? Wow, that's a lot of trauma that you have. It's kind of like, did you ever watch Cruella? Emma Stone Cruella?

No, I haven't seen it. It's like so funny to me because it's like the girl boss mentality taken to like a 14. So it's like it stops being bad and it starts getting funny. They rewrite it so that Cruella only hates Dalmatians because they like killed her parents. Oh, that's right. And you're like, what? That's basically what happens in this movie.

Ballet killed her mother. And so now she can't talk about it. I mean, fair. Yeah. Anyway, hello and welcome to the Bechdel cast. My name is Caitlin. I feel like the... Sorry.

My name is Jamie. I feel like the moral of this movie is if you dream too big, it will kill someone. So dream small or have no dreams. If you have ambitions to go to Juilliard, someone will get into a car accident or there will be some kind of car catastrophe every time you audition. Because it happens twice. This happens a lot in movies of this era.

I was thinking there's some Hilary Duff movie that is ranted, unfortunately, about like Raise Your Voice, I think it's called. No? You can speak. Yes. Oh, sorry. Yes, you're welcome. No, I was like, I think is called. No, is it? You can speak. Yes. Oh, sorry. Yes, you're welcome.

No, I was like, I can't. Some podcast, they don't want you to say anything until they introduce you. So I was silently, violently nodding. There's no rules. One thing about me, I'm going to bust out. Calmly, a best seller. Oh, the epitome of white girls giving us nothing oh raise your voice is is a staple i love the i mean it's like equally ridiculous that hillary duff is the voice of a generation

that julia styles is the ballet prodigy of a generation. But I think her brother dies. Her dreams kill her brother. Yes. Her brother, they were going to... I watched this movie recently. So that's like... What happened was they were on their way to a Three Days Grace concert.

They came back from it. He snuck out of the house. He got in trouble. But he snuck out of the house. They went because he wanted to do it for her and then on the way back when they're singing headlights and he's dead no and she can't see flashlights she doesn't want to audition but her brother secretly sent in the tape for her wow i love the specificity of them going to a three days grace concert what an embarrassing way to die are you ready for it

hey they died singing that that's what happened he died singing that i i guess i need to watch this movie i've never seen it you've never seen is it a decom it sounds like it's a decom no no but it's that middle ground place where like it's a little bit for older-ish teens. Okay. Yeah. It's for the Degrassi crowd or something. It's like slightly above DCOM age. And she sees his ghost like comes to the concert or whatever.

I miss, I would have appreciated a Julia Stiles mom ghost. Yes. Sitting in the theater. If Casper can do it, Save the Last Dance can do it. Exactly. Okay. So we've immediately gotten derailed. Sorry. Welcome to the Bechdel cast.

Yes. This is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. I just want to breeze right past that today. Look it up or listen to a different episode. The show's been on for 45 years okay if you don't know what the we barely talk about it it's the jumping off point for a bigger discussion about julia styles it's called marketing okay and if you guys i'm sorry not me attacking your

audience i know we have a brand to maintain god no but No, but today's movie is not the Hilary Duff one we were just talking about. It's Save the Last Dance. And we have an amazing guest we're so excited about. They are an unserious content creator trying to get people to be less mean to each other. It's Khadija Mbo. Thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. Oh, my gosh.

We're starstruck. We're thrilled. we're fans which is wild to me because i literally i'm listening to you you're on behind the bastards and y'all are talking about that weird cia sex cult thing yeah yeah robert's accusing me of murder right and left yep yep so khad, what is your relationship with Save the Last Dance? So actually Save the Last Dance is the first. Okay. I grew up watching it. One, of course. I always wanted to be a dancer growing up, but my parents couldn't afford to put me in dance. And we're also like, girl dance. We did not come all the way from West Africa for you to come over here and dance, Like, open those books.

What are you talking about? So I always secretly loved ballerinas. Like, that was always a thing that I, like, dreamt I could do. So I loved watching any kind of dance movie. And then on top of that, my friend and I, Chelsea. Chelsea, hey, girl. I'm giving you a shout out. Chelsea, Chelsea.

Hey, Chelsea. She's going to be so thrilled. We watched it for a podcast that we did like back in 2020, I think. And it was the first YouTube video that I made not giving like life advice or anything, but like actually talking about like a social issue. And yeah, the dolls were like, oh, hey, girl, this is cute. And I was like, maybe I should talk about more of this stuff because I have half a sociology degree, so I may as well put it to use.

No way. I didn't know it was like a part of a turning point in the kind of content you're making. That's so cool. Yeah, because I did video essays like once a month, but I was like, I'm going to make life advice and then I'll do video essays once a month but I was like I'm gonna make life advice and then I'll do video essays once once a month and then I was like why don't I just like kind of mix these two so I just like turned my camera on one day and was like we gotta talk about save the last dance because I have issues with this movie and then we watched that video because here's what happened with us Jamie and I had prepped this episode to release on our Matreon as a part of Dancecember. Because the first movie we did was Flashdance.

And then we were prepping to do Save the Last Dance. And then we were just like, this episode would really benefit from a guest. Yes. And we both we realized in unison because we had both watched your video and had like quoted it extensively and we're like we should just invite them on the show like what are we doing we're being fools so we put a pause we reached out to you we're like i wonder if they'll reply and then we covered burlesque on the matriarch instead i fucking love burlesque oh my god i'm working side note i'm working on a pole opera recital and so that's a big inspiration visually aesthetically for it because oh yeah

perfect watched it for the first time last year what a film it's just no hinges it is so yeah we were really into the whole air rights plot twist. Yeah, it's so movie, you know? It's a movie that feels like a movie. It really does. That quote disappeared too quickly. I know, let's bring it back. Yeah.

So anyway, so you responded and here we all are and we're so delighted to have you. Yeah. Jamie, what is your relationship with Save the Last Dance? Similar to Khadijah, I grew up watching this movie. I feel like it was like a real sleepover classic. I definitely saw it several times. I went to like community ballet classes where we like didn't compete. No one was particularly good so the dancing in this

movie was really great because it's not very good and we're like we could do that and like tragically we may have been able to do it because it's mostly just pointing sit standing up sitting down she does drop into those splits though the middle split that she does that i was like all right oh wait okay we weren't being kind to her because i forgot she immediately goes into that and then everything else was yeah she trained she trained but yeah i had like a pretty limited history with this i hadn't seen it in a long time before prepping for this and And so, you know, it's very much a confronting your nostalgia demons kind of thing. And yeah, I forgot a lot of what happened to this movie. And I also forgot, I think that this was my first viewing of this movie where I realized, I don't know what they're

preparing for, for a lot of this movie. I don't know what the dancing, why he's training her, what qualifies him to train her. Because she's white and he's black and he's trying to give her flavor. God, Jamie. That really does seem to be the internal logic of the movie. Because I was like, wait a second, is he a dancer? Like, do we know this? Not. What are they getting ready for? They're taking it so seriously. I love it. Right. Because it's not until like past the midway mark that she learns about the next string of Juilliard auditions. So before that, he teaches her how to sit in a chair. And you guys, I'm so sorry. I need to say this. So as black people, dancing is really important, right? And so because of that, if you can't sit or stand or move your hips with some sort of

attitude, it's kind of like a family embarrassment, honestly. Like two of my siblings can't dance. And every time I'm like, I'm kidding. I'm don't, I'm not'm not black people on a monolith and I am not the representation for black folks I just sarcasm he's like you're not sitting in the chair right and so we have to incorporate this chair sitting as a part of your dance training you're like yeah exactly even though at steps the club there is no point that any of them are sitting. No.

No. Well, like, unless they're talking. Yeah, but the sitting isn't a part of the dancing. There's like four chairs for heated conversation. This movie is, I remember it being incredibly successful and it just feels so like peak mtv movie of this time where the soundtrack is pretty fucking awesome the soundtrack is bumping i was like okay hold up i gotta be in alabama put your hands up you can do it put your ass into it

you said that so reluctantly i know i was like i was like because some of the lyrics are you can do it put your back into it and then i was like is that the lyric or is it both of them i think it goes back and forth music is amazing music is amazing it can be both two things can be true you're so right i have a theory about this movie though because i looked up the date it was released january 12 2001 2001. You guys, this was a pre-9-11 America. And when you think about that, it explains this movie.

I don't know how, but I'm one of those people that will always connect it back to 9-11. It's pre-9-11 and it's pre-Shrek. And those are the two cultural markers. It is pre-Shrek. The final movie before 9-11. Shrek. And those are the two cultural markers. It is pre-Shrek. You're right.

Shrek was the final movie before 9-11. Spiritually. The final movie spiritually before 9-11. It was like two months. I also didn't remember this. In my memory, this movie happened in New York. But I think it was because anytime I saw a city in a movie, even as a kid, I was like, New York City. Even if they're constantly calling it Chicago

it's New York City it's beautiful yeah in any case my history with this movie is yes oh sorry what is it oh my god sorry oh my gosh we're just like no it's fine this movie came out when I when I was a freshman in high school, so I was like the target demo. And I don't think I saw it in theaters, but I probably saw it a few times at different like friends sleepovers. And we were all just like, wow, cool dancing. And we just, we thought it was cool. And I don't think I've seen it since so that's what my history is well and i can't wait to talk more about it because this is a wild wild movie it's a rich text

it's such a rich text it almost definitely would have been my introduction to kerry washington as well yeah oh it 100% she was still a teacher when she was doing this movie really yes yes that warms my heart she's so good in it like she did not make enough money off this role because from like citation needed but I'm pretty sure that was the case I remember I don't know when I was looking this up because I just like to learn about like how movies are made or like what the tea was behind the scenes and yeah apparently she was still teaching while she was doing this movie because you know we know they don't pay actors y'all come on nope no not ones that aren't famous already I did look it up and it seems to be referenced in a number of publications.

They're pulling a quote from her in today.com and people.com. Whoa. Okay. Love that. So it's true. But yeah, she didn't earn enough money from this role because actors and especially black women are severely underpaid so which is still i mean that's like a conversation that's been going on recently with taraji taraji p henson yeah crying on stage y'all she's too famous for this it's ridiculous yeah so that conversation is ongoing. Shall we talk about the movie?

You know, I think the time has come. It's time. All right, let's take a quick break first, and then we'll come back for the recap. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhearts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

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Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. And we're back. We're back. All right. So here's Save the Last Dance. We meet Sarah, played by Julia Stiles. She's a teenager who used to dance ballet. We get some flashbacks where she's hanging out with her mom, she's preparing for an audition to Juilliard, she's begging her mom to come to the audition. Sarah shows up at

the audition, and her mom is rushing to get there and is killed in a car accident along the way right as sarah is auditioning but like she's falling and right as sarah is like i'm coming in hot but like she's blowing it anyways you know like she's like if she hadn't fallen Juilliard has an eight percent acceptance rate right and also girl yeah like you I saw her leg going up as some of those I was like Julia activate those glute muscles girl lift lift that leg yeah but no it's definitely her mom's death that botches the i mean honestly though when i was a kid that was like the most engaging editing sequence i'd ever seen in my life oh the juxtaposition i mean come on it was right up there with oh my gosh do you remember i forget what song is playing in the glee episode where the cheerleader gives

birth i think it's going oh bohemian rhapsody yeah god it's i don't know where that was stored in my brain what the fact that both of you not even are referring to this sequence also really incredible 2000s era editing just um just that i'd shut up okay so the audition gets all messed up and sarah is devastated by her mother's death and she steps away from ballet she arrives in the south side of chicago to live with her dad now their relationship is pretty awkward he's showing her around his apartment she gets settled in i was getting charlie and bella swan vibes from this because it's a very similar scene where charlie swan's like here's your bedroom hope you like purple okay bye very beginning of the first twilight movie vibes that is well spotted. I like that she has Jazz Dad.

Had to be. You're like, this is a character I haven't seen before. I don't think I've ever seen Jazz Dad. So adorable Jazz Dad. They say it's all been done. Not so. Jazz Dad is definitely new. Okay, so then Sarah goes to her first day at her new school. And it's worth noting that the student body is predominantly black, and she's one of the few white students there. This will all become relevant later. During her English Lit class, they're talking about Capote, and she gets into this literary debate with a classmate named Derek, played by Sean Patrick Thomas.

Sarah also meets a student named Chenille. That's a young Kerry Washington who kind of takes Sarah under her wing and introduces Sarah to her friends. We learn that Derek is Chenille's brother. We also learn that Derek has aspirations to go to Georgetown and become a doctor. He had my number from the very beginning because he did the thing that I love when boys do in movies, which is quote things. He's quoting various things. And so I was like, yeah, I have a crush on him. He's like, if a guy can read,'m immediately like oh my god

anytime like a teenage boy character is canonically literate i'm like oh okay i'm gonna be interested in listening and can we just say real quick we're talking about carrie washington carrie washington before the lip quiver because we all know that lip quiver it's like the florence pew frown and then is it sean patrick it's yeah he has three first names and that's yeah okay not acceptable sean patrick thomas child actor serial killers so it's sean patrick thomas and his nostrils because sean paxton thomas's nostrils every time he I recognize it I was like good for you man his nostrils were doing their own

performance but anyway they're flaring and they were flaring a lot I just couldn't stop staring as a kid

I just really remember his nostrils okay good nostril game I'm trying to remember it's like the Will Poulter eyebrows

it's like just sometimes that reminds me Jamie did you do you remember that Will Poulter is in The Revenant? Yes, I do. I did not remember that. That's the only reason I saw The Revenant. I was like, I'm watching The Revenant to get horny.

Only. I have no reference. I've never seen it. I had only seen it one other time, but I was scrubbing through it the other day for a little special surprise for one of our live shows coming up but I was like what Will Poulter's in this I wonder if Jamie knows anyway so back to save the last dance a young Will Poulter okay I don't like how I said that we're the same age it's fine okay so one day in gym class Sarah gets on the balance beam and she starts doing ballet type moves.

And Shanil and her friends are like, wow, you can do ballet? In that case, you should come with us to a hip hop club named Steps. So after school, Sarah, Shanil, Derek and their friend Snooki. Ahead of their time. They're hanging out and they're kind of planning to go to steps. And they arrange to get Sarah a fake ID so that she can get into the club. And during this scene, Sarah is, how do I say this? Serving some attitude to Snooki and Derek.

And they're like, wow, this white girl can hang. She's definitely. This white girl is down. Yeah. Her Julia style, like her acting style is like just not selling this really very much. I wanted to shout out one of my favorite lines in the movie. I think it's Nikki at the beginning of, I don't know. There's elements of this movie where you're like, for sure sure this was written by multiple people over the age of 40 because there's the there's the scene where I think

it's like Nikki who's like she's dancing in the hallway and they're like what are you doing she's like I'm just doing a little hip-hop yeah she's observing other people yeah and then Chanel's like oh that's just a little hip-hop yeah you You're like, that's, a mom wrote that. A mom wrote that. Because, yeah, the original script was written by some random white dude. And then this black woman came in later, apparently, and, like, rewrote it and stuff. But I was like, was this how they were talking in the early 2000s? Or is this old head stuff?

I think the damage was done in the first draft. I'm going to say Cheryl Edwards, innocent. Cheryl Edwards, protect black women gonna say Cheryl Edwards innocent. Protect black women. Anyway, so they're like, wow, this girl's so cool. She should definitely hang out with us. So then Sarah meets Chenille at her place before they head out to steps. And this is when Sarah learns that Shanil has a baby who her, I believe it's her grandmother, seems to be like the primary caregiver for. And Shanil's like, bye baby, I'm going out to the club. So Shanil gives Sarah her fake ID. She makes some adjustments to Sarah's outfit and then they go into steps. are dancing people are judging sarah for being there

there's this girl named nikki who's like um what's this white girl doing here that scene that line i'm sorry i know you don't want to say it so i will say it but it's like who invited the white girl to the Negro function? Julia South goes, must have missed it because there aren't any Negroes here. And I was like, Julie, I'm going to have to stop rolling your neck.

You are in mixed company and you got invited here. You are a guest in this house. Calm it down. That's like when Adele put those Bantu knots in and we were like, Adele, we love you

and we always want to invite you places but you stepped a little too far just a little bit yeah that scene is baffling you're just like she has sarah the character of sarah just in every situation displays a stunning lack of self-awareness like and is never punished for it this is a world where her lack of self-awareness like and is never punished for it this is a world where her lack of self-awareness will never result in even a stray look you're just she never learns anything from it it's just like what is the point of the movie then she's living the dream she doesn't grow or change and she gets gets into Juilliard. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

She's become a better dancer. Despite all of Derek's efforts. Okay. So Nikki, she's like one of the antagonistic forces for Sarah and she has a romantic history with Derek and she wants to like get back together with him. He's not into her anymore but because there's this like blossoming flirtation between Sarah and Derek Nikki's like oh gross yeah every word out of Nikki's mouth is just like a one-liner insult about Sarah being white yes and I'm like Nikki like, Nikki, you, listen, girl, Bianca Lawson,

love you down, high schooler forever. Yeah. You a little too light to be coming after this white girl. Not saying that you white, but girl, it's the light skin privilege for me.

And then I also was like, is Derek a colorist? I mean, it's possible. He's really, me stepping back. Seems to be favoring light skin. Listen, Derek, I'm just curious.

Although that is Hollywood though. They like a dark skinned black man and a mixed biracial black woman. That's the ideal couple form in Hollywood for black folks. We've seen it time and time again. Okay, so meanwhile, Sarah is at the club she's just kind of watching people dance she's observing and then derrick comes over to her and asks her to dance so they start dancing he's showing her hip-hop steps they're just doing a little hip-hop

caitlin oh right she's like what is this's like, it's just a little hip hop. And then from now on, it's just a little hip hop. She's not great at it, but she's trying her best. And then a fight breaks out that Derek gets caught up in the middle of because there's this guy named Malachi who Derek is friends with. And Malachi is involved in, I think, drug dealing is, I don't know if they come out and say it specifically, but that seems to be the implication. Anyway, so there's this like fistfight, everyone scatters. And so they leave the club. And then Derek walks Sarah home.

And as they're saying goodnight, he's like, I could help you with your dance moves. And she's like, okay. A montage. Ooh, say what, say what, say what? Yeah. You know that I like it, baby. Meanwhile, they're standing up and sitting down. She has to learn how to sit in a chair.

It's so important. Her mom died, Caitlin. Take it easy. So they're hanging out a lot and he is teaching her some steps and like you pointed out jamie they're not preparing for anything she's not anticipating another juilliard audition yet my guess is just like they have a crush on each other so they're using this as an excuse to hang out but it's the means by which they fall into weird love with each other right so anyway he's teaching her all this stuff and then she does a ballet move he's like whoa

you know ballet and she's like yeah but it killed my mom so i don't want to talk about it ron dejean attitude i don't want to talk about it girl what he's like so you said ron dejean whatever because you don't want to talk about it which i appreciated that a lot i really like that but yeah because i was like oh they he said the thing that teen movies never say the thing that you're thinking that's nice okay so she's refusing to talk about her mom. Also, Sarah has witnessed Malachi threatening and assaulting a girl at school. And rather than telling him about that, or like doing anything to help protect this girl. She's just like, hey, Derek, why are you friends with Malachi? And Derek defends him. And then they move on. They just move right past that conversation.

Generally speaking, though, we just get a lot of scenes of Sarah and Derek dancing and vibing. And then Derek discovers that he got accepted into Georgetown. So he and Sarah go out to celebrate. We get a scene where they're on the L and a white lady is giving them disgusted looks because she doesn't like interracial couples. So Sarah and Derek start heavily canoodling. They're all over each other. I don't even think they've kissed at this point, but they're just.

That's what shocked me. His lips were on her neck her neck and i was like has his lips even been on your mouth no yeah i was really good because after he gets into georgetown it's game on for some reason like listen the prospect of full tuition and your future being set for you if that doesn't arouse you in this economy i don't know what would. I'm like, there has to be a missing scene where they are like, because it seems like they're together really suddenly after like this really slow burn flirtation. And then, yeah, in the train scene, you're like, oh, I guess that they're dating because they're on a date and they're like making out on the train.

But they haven't even kissed on the lips yet. It's really weird. But anyway, so they go to the ballet. She's apprehensive about going in because of all of her ballet trauma, but they watch the performance. It upsets her. And this is when she tells Derek that she feels responsible for her mother's death because she died on the way to Sarah's Juilliard audition and she's crying and Derek's like it's not your fault don't give up on your dreams you can still go to Juilliard and dance ballet and she's like so true okay I'll do it I'm also just like if I were Derek I'd be like she should stop dancing and go to therapy for for at least a few months seriously well also like if i was the superstitious type which i am i'd be like seems

like every time this girl auditions for juilliard someone she loves dies and she wants me to show up to that audition i'm not going yeah i'm going to georgetown yeah right yeah i'm just like they're gonna i guess that's just a high school couple but i'm like you guys are gonna break up soon unfortunately i'm surprised they didn't have him go to a school in new york yeah to imply that they would like stay together the plot did not give them a chance. Because Georgetown is in D.C.? Yeah. Okay, okay. I guess not too far, but yeah. After all they've been through a long-distance relationship,

it just seems cruel. Right? Anyway, so she is like, okay, fine, I'll dance again. And this is when they have their first on-screen kiss. Then she takes out her ballet shoes and puts them on for the first time since her mom died. And she learns that Juilliard is holding auditions in Chicago in one month. So she starts prepping and getting into shape, which includes ballet classes. And it also includes Derek continuing to teach her hip hop dance. Then we see them at Steps again,

doing some of the choreography they practiced and people are watching. Yeah, I'm like, are they rehearsing to go to Steps? Because that's so like, if true, that is like, maybe they really did find each other because that is like the dorkiest thing in the world. That's so cute and weird. I mean, I don't know if this happens or not. But I feel like when you go to a dance club, you don't do choreography that you practiced in a random classroom. Y'all have not gone to clubs with dancers. Let me tell you something. The girls, the girls will bust out the choreo, the dance circle.

Yeah, I spent a lot of time in my early 20s going to clubs with dancers that it was always a thing. They wouldn't bust out like choreo that they learned in class, but they definitely would bust out stuff where you're like, can you practice this? Yeah. This feels a bit rehearsed. Do you rehearse for a party? Okay, well, i stand corrected then um i'm just here to be the reference for black and dance you know thank you okay so everyone's like watching their choreography and they're like oh my gosh wow look at sarah go except nikki who cuts in and starts dancing with derek she's putting her butt all over him and sarah gets jealous and leaves the dance floor

i love that turn of phrase gail i know she's putting her butt all over himself i was like yeah yeah i mean she am i wrong not you're, no, you're correct. You're not wrong. I just didn't accept the words in that order. Yeah, exactly. The way they came together. Poetry. She can do it. She puts her ass into it. What?

Every time you quote the lyrics, you do it so reluctantly. Well, that time I did that on purpose. It was a callback. Okay, good. Okay, okay. It was a callback. Oh, we love Okay, okay. It was a callback. Oh, we love a callback. You right, you right, you right.

Putting her ass onto it, right? We need a remix of the song. You can do put your ass all over it. All over it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what you said, yes. Okay, so Nikki is dancing with Derek now. Sarah is off to the side and malachi approaches sarah

to be like stay away from derrick whitey he calls her he's oil you milk that does definitely happen okay oh my goodness so then derrick comes over and he's like babe what's the matter we were just dancing it's no big deal i would never do anything to hurt you and she's like teehee okay so then they go back to her place and she's like my jazz dad is out jazzing all night. My jazz dad is out jazzing all night with Kim Cattrall. He won't be here. She's there scatting. Scatting. He's jazzing.

Yabba dabba dabba. Shoo ba doo ba wah bah. He looked at all the he dogs and he looked at all the she dogs. The town never knew such a hullabaloo. I didn't know you had it memorized. It's that little dog Ray had to do one thing. For listeners who are not aware, we are referring to a video

where Kim Cattrall scats with her jazz husband. Yes. And his double bass, his upright bass. Yes. And it's maybe the most uncomfortable thing that one could watch so he's out jazzing away he is while his daughter's fucking yeah because they have sex in the living room because that's like where her bedroom is right now she's sleeping on the couch they fuck on the couch presumably and we don't talk about that enough anyway okay then we see a couple scenes where

Derek is hanging out with Malachi and some other guys and they're judging him for dating a white girl then they're playing basketball and there's a drive-by shooting because Malachi is in the middle of this turf war luckily no one is hurt but Malachi is gonna the middle of this turf war. Luckily, no one is hurt, but Malachi is going to have to retaliate later on. And then this is juxtaposed, this drive-by shooting basketball scene is juxtaposed with Sarah and Nikki also playing basketball in gym class, but they're getting into a scuffle. Nikki is like, i don't like white girls like you getting in my way and taking my men so they get into this fight and later at steps malachi is trying to get derrick involved in that like kind of retaliation scheme malachi insults sarah because she's standing right there and so derrick punches

him then there's a scene where sarah goes with chanel and her baby to a doctor's appointment and chanel is like hey sarah i think nikki has a point about white women being with black men. And Sarah doesn't get it. She doesn't want to hear it. And she leaves. Cut to Sarah working with Derek on her Juilliard audition. And he's like, oh, let's go to this like couples only night at Steps. And she's reluctant to go. And she's not even sure they should be together at this point, because it seems like no one wants them to be together they argue and ultimately break up so then Derek approaches Malachi to be like oh sorry I punched you let's be friends again Malachi is like great I need you to show up and help me at my turf war and Derek is like yeah I'll be there I'm'm like, Derek, Georgetown, Derek, come on. Are you kidding?

Meanwhile, Sarah keeps working on her audition, but it's not going well. Her auditions the following day. She has a tender moment with her dad, who I've mostly left out of the recap, but he is in the movie and we can bring him up. He's like, I'm sorry sorry i did too much jazz and not enough dad and she's like i forgive you sort of yeah that's it i mean i know that it seems like her parents were divorced for some time but i was sort of like wow he does not care that his child's mother is very suddenly dead he's like showing no he's like well sucks life is hard it was giving one night stand it was giving we were 19 we hooked up she had you

and i was like i gotta go jazz i can't do this i can't he was not even pretending to care he was not no good for jazz dad anyway so she's like i just miss mom so much and i need someone who loves me to be at my audition and jazz dad is like well i love you i could come and she's like really then we see chanel admitting to to Derek that she had told Sarah that she agreed with Nikki that black men shouldn't Sarah's audition. The audition is once again intercut with Malachi and his minions. It's true. Kevin, Stuart, Bob, everyone's there. They're all there. So we see them shooting at the other people who they're in this like turf war with. But Malachi and his minions get caught and arrested and also their car explodes so it's like again if you're in a car while sarah is auditioning for juilliard there's gonna be a catastrophe i was like truly like people get into auto wrecks

while she's trying to achieve her dreams stop this your dancing hurts people literally yeah like be honest like it's not worth it and you know it you know it yeah you're not good enough to justify all these people's cars exploding lives are is you're not yeah you're not baryshnikov there's my there's my yes your dad yeah wow try not to pass out at that really good reference i just dropped oh too late i'm oh caitlin's sick caitlin's throwing up okay anyway so malachi has gotten arrested meanwhile at the audition, Sarah messes up right away. And she's like, I'm not ready. But then Derek bursts in and he runs to the stage.

He's like, you can do it. So she starts again. And at first it seems like traditional ballet. But then it becomes a blend of ballet and hip hop. And the judges are like, what is this music she's doing a little hip hop oh my god yeah they're like the judges are like what is that she's like they went from smiling it's just a little hip hop and then the judge who hates her is like welcome to juilliard oh i can't say this on the record welcome to juilliard which chelsea and i when we watch this movie we were as musicians who've like

auditioned for juilliard and all these other schools like that are like known in our community but not necessarily known outside of it because we both trained as classical singers we were like bitch first off, you're not getting into this school because your audition sucked. You had somebody burst in during your audition, the audacity of that. Third, the judges are never going to look that mean to you.

They want you to succeed. They're not frowning and looking at you. They're like, hey, okay. They're concentrated or they're smiling because they want you to do well because they don't want to be seeing shitty performances thirdly no judge ever especially after not seeing all the other auditions would say i can't say this on the record welcome to juilliard he's not the only one on that panel oh sorry that just drove me nuts that drove me nuts real

unreal we just covered flash dance as. And she also whiffs the beginning of her audition. She's like, can I start again? But the twist was Flashdance is we don't even know if she gets in because the movie doesn't give a shit. They just wanted to date a 40 year old man. Yeah. But this one is interesting. Yeah. Because it's like, I never registered the disruption as a kid. I'm like, well, of course, but as an adult you're like wow they do not relent like they're like hey you can't be in here and then she's like no let him in and then he comes on stage on stage it was wow they really found each other they're weirdos I wrote in my notes you need someone to go to the audition with you girl you ain't cut out for this business because listen right maybe it was a salty bitterness of me of like pursuing my dreams

without my parents permission but like my parents didn't even know if i had auditions for shit i took myself there on the bus did it and went back home like i don't i'm sorry anyway maybe she's too codependent she's too codependent and it's frustrating like not for nothing i'd be mortified if someone i liked or like someone who i cared about was at an audition i'm like leave me to the wolves that you'll never know don't watch me don't look at me you don't need to perceive this okay i'll tell you about it and tell you about it from my delusional fantasy where they loved me but like exactly where i was robbed i can't have anyone know that i was not in fact robbed oh goodness okay so let's take a quick break and then we'll

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okay rich text firstly yes nikki i didn't believe bianca lawson had this much attitude and i didn't believe her as the character. It almost felt like she was like, do I really got to say all this? You coming up in here, stealing our men. And her neck, I was like, give her something for that. Because her neck kept rolling. And she kept talking about like, okay, sorry. Maybe this is a, sorry.

There's so many things. Maybe the early 2000s. Take your time. Thank you. Maybe the early 2000s were a different time. But, you know, I personally have never been around a group of black dudes. At least then hearing my older brother's friends talk about white women. And later, that would be that angry about you being with a white person.

Usually they're like, you got a white girl look at you oh you think you big money now like that's the kind of shit not all of them would say but some of them would say so all of them being like god white women are trouble i mean maybe now that's a conversation happening because of jonathan majors but it's also like was the white woman to trouble or were you to trouble? Anyway, you know what? You know what? It's a complicated topic. It's very complicated that the movie is not equipped to discuss meaningfully in any way. They shouldn't have introduced it. Like, I get maybe the one scene of the lady, the white lady in the train looking at them

could have been a way to just do it. And like, that would have been the only instance they really brought up of it but of course you know movies have to have conflict instead of the conflict being I'm working through my trauma of my mom dying and dance and all of that it's I'm kind of working through that but mostly I like this guy that I've become codependent with but he's black and I'm white And this is 2001 and we're not supposed to be together. Right. So it has to, and I feel like it's,

I hope I'm phrasing this correctly, but I feel like the movie does a lot of stuff to make Sarah seem to be the oppressed person. Like so far into the revert. Like they're like, well, racism affects white girls as well. And you're like,

no. And this never like really registered for me until i was watching it this time but it's like you see a lot of black characters judging white characters but you don't really see the reverse very much in the world of this movie and so it comes off very weird right yeah because there's a way to me there is a conversation there of yeah like the colorism of it all the joke that I made about Derek maybe being a colorist or like uh just the idea that you're in a space and I'm glad that Chanel pointed out when she was talking to Derek she was like you know I was really upset with Kenny so I was just really annoyed and it was saying it from a place of anger less about like the actual relationship and more so just like I was mad because my baby daddy's out here acting wild

and I'm glad that at the end of it he showed up and they both said hey to each other and it was like uh hey we're gonna try to figure this out as opposed to uh you gotta ain't shit baby daddy all the black girls are stuck with what did she say you come in taking our men after jail jail drugs and drive-bys maybe yeah jail drugs and drive-bys I was just like okay I get it you know different neighborhoods especially because we're talking about poor black folks so there's a different dynamic there too it was just like all black people are poor and live in this part of Chicago. And because of that, they don't relate. Like even when her friend is on the phone with her and it's like, you have white guys at your school. That's the only time you hear a white person be kind of and the white lady looking at them.

It's the only time you hear a white person be kind of like, what? And she doesn't say it because she's secretly embarrassed or what? I don't know. Like, did she answer her when she asked she says because she's like i met someone and her friend assumes that the only guy that she would date would be a white guy and she's like oh i didn't know they had white guys at your school and she's like they don't right but doesn't necessarily clarify that the guy that she met is not white yeah i mean and again it's like you don't even see that character like none of the white characters that are we don't know the lady on the train.

She's like racism, the lady. And then they vanquish racism, the lady. And then kind of like move forward where it's like sometimes we have like patriarchy, the guy where it's like you just have to get rid of this one guy and you've solved it, which like you know it's movie logic but like her dad doesn't seem to have you know an issue with her dating Derek but also he doesn't give a shit about her so I don't know yeah or he doesn't but like when he's at the door and she's like now it's not a good time and he leaves but I'm like is it because he's black or because he's dating her or I was like are we gonna explore this I mean he's a jazz musician he's dating her? Or I was like, are we going to explore this? I mean, he's a jazz musician living in the south side of Chicago.

He probably knows black people, I should hope. But, you know, white people stole jazz, too. So, yes. So I'm like, you know, but we don't ever explore anything besides racism, the lady and reverse racism, Nikki. Right. I mean, there might be a world where this could conceivably happen. But even just Sarah, who comes from what appears to be a predominantly white suburban or more rural community going to the south side of Chicago. She was in Vermont. They did that on purpose.

They were like, what's the whitest place? Right. in Vermont they did that on purpose they were like what's the whitest place right being suddenly immersed in a predominantly black community and for her to just be like yeah I'm so cool with this I fit in right away because of all the attitude I'm giving and it's also like okay that implication's also pretty messed up I was like yeah I'm glad that like the black girls are having some fun, but it's all attitude and neck rolling. And I'm like the one scene at the beginning when she's with the black nerds and they're all sitting at the table being like,

we are the future. I was like, representation matter. Oh gosh. Cause even she'll be like, don't let me catch you sitting at that table again it's like see high school high school yeah the clicks are there but yeah i mean ultimately this movie ends up just being about a white girl suddenly finding herself in this black community and

being like oh that's just a little hip-hop well i'll learn that and then i'll basically appropriate everything that is near me she starts dressing differently she starts like wearing her hair in twists and braids and she starts wearing timbs yes yes yeah it that was the turning point in the movie she put on those timberlands and she was like slamming he says slamming so much she said slamming a lot could you I forget if this was from your video but like I also watched Kenny JD's video about save the last dance that came out recently which was really very funny but like the legacy of like movies where that this feels like very clearly placed in where it's like a white character like works through some external issue in their lives by briefly being in a predominantly black community this

is a story of taylor's oldest time hayden panettiere and bring it on is it the second or third one with solange knollles in it when she's crumping? Oh, God. I want to say it too. I've only seen the first one, so I couldn't say. This is basically Save the Last Dance. But Hayden Panettiere and she goes to a predominantly black school. Bring it on all or nothing.

Yes, bring it on all or nothing. She goes to a predominantly black school and cheers there. And the black girls roll their necks and do not like her. And then she shows that she can do it by doing white mediocre dancing,

which I'm going to be honest, in Canada at least, I'll see at the clubs. Like we'll all be dancing, having a good time. You turn around, a white girl does like a little booty pop

and a group of black guys are like, hey! I'm like, girl. Girl. It's not that not that special it's we all need to calm down so they're emboldened by this but I think the thing that the major theme that I really got from this was I do not trust Hollywood in general but I do not trust Hollywood to make movies like this because even if they had a white guy write it and then a black woman come in to like sort it out, it's still Hollywood depictions of what they expect

an audience to want and appreciate as opposed to depictions informed by real people. Because like, I'm not against hearing black people

talk with attitude or roll their necks or whatever. Like, P-Valley is one of my favorite shows. And I think it does a really good job of depicting Southern folks that I grew up around and heard talk, Black and white, but predominantly Black. And like the different race relations in there too.

I don't know. It just feels like more grounded in reality when I watch that show. And the difference of when I hear a black person writing it and a black person of a certain age writing for it like insecure and rap shit and stuff like that versus an older white man writing this dance movie because dance movies were popular in the early 2000s and then they're like oh we need it to look better so let's have this black woman I don't know how involved she was in it so I don't want to like discredit her. But it's also like, yeah, I'm just like Hollywood.

I'm giving you side eye. And I know the actors only have so much control because they're like, listen, a gig is a gig. Let me just come from here, say these damn lines, get my money and go. But yeah. Yeah. There's not a lot of information I was able to find

about the like production of this movie. I was really hoping for like an oral history kind of piece on this movie but it doesn't seem like one exists which is really frustrating because this movie and a lot of teen movies feels like studio notes within an inch of its life to the point where it's like incoherent at certain parts and it seems like whole scenes or like storylines are kind of dropped. But I was honestly surprised that this movie has a black director and a black co-writer because it just seems so all over the place. And I wish I knew because the name of the director is predominantly a TV director before this named Thomas Carter. Carter, who side note, I thought it was just really funny. He's like, when I saw Julia

Stiles dance in 10 things I hate about you I knew she had to be in this I'm like did you that's wild she danced in 10 things I hate about you yeah there's that scene where she gets up on the table at a party and starts dancing and again I would say like not particularly well right I'm just

like yeah I'm sorry I'm gonna say the thing that I probably shouldn't say in mixed company, but here we go. Older black men of a certain age. Y'all, y'all be given a little too much. What? What is this? What? You saw Julius.

I'm sorry. There are plenty of white girls out there that could have done a lot more and not been like, I think Julius Styles played it well and how stiff she was, especially like in the beginning. You notice little things with how she puts her feet, how she stands, you know, the ballet training. Like, I think she that was directed well and I think she really did that well. But it was still just like even when they're doing the dance and they're doing the steps and whatever. I was just like, girl, Derek dropped to the splits, flipped back up. He was doing B-boy stuff. What was she doing?

Yeah. It's just like, it does feel like this movie is directed by someone much older than the age demographic, which is true. He was almost 50 when he directed this. Not trying to be ageist with the direction, but when you're making a movie for teenagers, you should like talk to one. You should talk to one. You should talk to a few. You're bringing in the baggage of like two generations removed from the Target demo and the actors in the movie. And so, yeah, you're like bringing in this kind of like generational baggage from a bygone era. And all of this is happening in 2001,

which is like, you know, over 20 years ago now. So like, despite the movie, having a Black director and having a Black co-writer, the sole story by credit goes to Dwayne Adler, who is a white man, a Black woman named Cheryl Edwards has a co-screenwriting credit with Dwayne Adler, who is a white man, a black woman named Cheryl Edwards has a co-screenwriting credit with Dwayne Adler, but we're not quite sure to what extent she was involved. When there are like, you know, co-screenplay credits, that could mean any number of things. It could mean that they both wrote separate drafts. It could mean that they collaborated together on drafts. It could mean that she was just brought in to rewrite the dialogue which is honestly i feel like probably the most likely thing where like his dialogue just didn't sound authentic at all and so she although i'm completely

speculating you know don't quote me on this and he goes on to make this a cottage industry like duane that's the reason why i was sideways because he did a lot of these fucking movies yeah he found something that worked and just relentless save the last dance the way she moves don't remember that one step up save the last dance to step up to the streets make it happen i don't know what that is step up 3d step up revolution step up all in he makes like a billion step up dollars after this because he's like uh yeah i think i get kids and movies and you're like duane i'm not sure i'm not so sure duane the kids just want to dance to a little hip so yeah i mean despite the movie having a few black creatives in like significant

roles significant creative roles as you point out in your video essay khadija like this movie still has kind of like the stink of written by a white person all over it it's hollywood white gays g-a-z-e not the holly white gay. Because I always have to clarify that. Not Andy Cohen. Well, Andy Cohen, that's a whole other conversation. Yeah, we don't have time. But I mean, just, yeah, the way that this story ends up panning out as far as like, she ends up in this predominantly black space.

She starts just basically appropriating the culture. Anytime anyone calls her out for any behavior, she doesn't learn anything from it. She takes it as an attack. And then she's just like, well, I'm just gonna do whatever I want to do. And then she ends up incorporating the things that she learned from Derek into her like ballet audition for Juilliard so it's like yeah me a white woman I'm going to introduce hip-hop to Juilliard and then the white judges are like the twist oh my god amazing but they love it and they're like welcome to Juilliard yeah and well and it's like and I feel like it's also implied and this like reminds me of a lot of the conversations from several years ago and still now of how like your Charlie D'Amelio's on TikTok would take and repost dances originally done by black users and then become super famous and, you know, make a bajillion dollars off of that appropriation. It's like we don't get the feeling that at the end of this movie that like Sarah is going to continue doing hip hop and or that she's going to even continue like living in a predominantly black neighborhood.

It's like she's used what she needs and now she's like going to it seems like cast it off and move on because she's gotten what she wants. A thing that I didn't talk about in my video essay that I am thinking about more now is how we package desirability. Because I think someone like a Julia Stiles, she was pretty popular around that time as an actor. And even now with like a Charlie D'Amelio or whatever, like TikTok, people talk about the algorithm and how it does like certain facial features,

certain looks, even complexions. Like there is bias in its algorithm, skin tone bias and all that stuff. We, I think collectively, people just like good music, right? And they just like something that is a vibe. And a lot of hip hop or R&B and all that stuff is a vibe.

It's the same thing in reverse. Like when you're like, black people, why do you love Paramore so much? It's like, leave me alone. Hey, William Slatt, don't do me. Like I actually went through an emo phase. So like, I know a lot of like pop punk girlies, but even black people that do not listen

to that type of music are like, no, no, no. They will sing misery business top to bottom and be like, the shit slaps, you know? And Hayley Williams is a great singer. And she's a lot of, she grew up in the South. She has a lot of different inspirations. Anyway, for me, the thing, and this is my own bias, I'm speaking from my own perspective, black people are not a monolith. I tend to view it sometimes as like, when I've been around other

black folks and stuff, if you're talented, if you're good, if you're whatever, we'll recognize that. That's it. Like, you just have to be good. Like Renee Rapp was singing Dangerously in Love with Jennifer Hudson on her show. And so many of the comments were like, Jennifer, how are you going to let this girl eat you up like that? Jennifer, ooh, you know? And so it's just like, if you're good, the shit's good. It doesn't matter what your skin color is. But I think with white audiences,

and this is a question I've asked a lot, it's will white audiences show up to things where they are not the center of attention or they are not centered in it? And how do we do introduce this style of music, even though hip hop was very popular in the 90s and 2000s? That was like the biggest time. And this is a question I don't really know the answer to.

My speculation, and I speculate this a lot in videos, is that a lot of us need to work on practicing our empathy muscles when it comes to putting ourselves in the perspective of a character who we don't look like and for a lot of darker skinned folks black and brown people especially if you grow up in this part of the world you are used to seeing media that does not look like you a lot but you can still empathize with the characters like interstellar is one of my favorite movies there are a couple couple of black people in it, sure. But like, it's not about black people or anything like that. It's just a story about love, you know? So like, and I fucking love it. But I think not enough audience members, like particularly not enough white folks will watch

or invest in movies and TV shows where it's not for them, quote unquote, or they're not centered in it. Totally. Which is why like we'll have a whole separate black genre of movies where I'm like, if I say to a black person, the family, fuck my husband. They know exactly, I'm talking about soul food. They know, you know?

But like you ask a white person if they see soul food and a lot of times they're like, what? Or one of my friends has seen the color purple. He's white. He's seen the color purple way too many times. times than i've seen it and i was always like i'm sorry kevin what you see the color purple eight what like and it even surprises me because i'm not used to white folks not centering themselves and practicing that empathy muscle of consuming media that isn't necessarily catered to them, that doesn't have them in mind, but is still about people.

Totally. And this is something that I've had to contend with in my own movie watching journey, where that's just so much of what if you go to the movies or if you want to watch a movie nearly 10 out of 10 times, it's going to be a white centered story, which is why white people do have to almost deliberately seek out or like they have to kind of put in a more conscious effort. And most of them simply don't. Yeah, it's you don't think about it. You don't know what you don't know. So from a compassionate think about it. You don't know what you don't know. So from a compassionate place, yeah, you don't know what you don't know. So you don't know that you're missing a whole genre, but also from a girl,

you got internet access and same wifi we all do. Like if you don't wanna put yourself in those positions to watch those movies where you might not get all the references or you might not like understand certain things, then you're're not going to i'm someone who loves diverse stories and stuff so i'll watch a whole bunch of shit i don't know nothing about living in ireland back during the 90s but dairy girls is fucking hilarious like you know but also irish people gang gang you know but yeah it does kind of challenge like when you're saying like

well what it means when you say like a movie is for you versus it's not where I feel like a lot of white audience members will look at a movie and be like well it's not for me because I don't see myself in it so it's not for me whereas like the true meaning of that is like I don't like that genre generally or that's like not a director. But I think that, yeah, that white audience members are so default. And like, I've done this in the past and had to like call myself in and be like, yeah, just because you can't see yourself in it does not mean it's not for you. You fucking loser.

It started, it started kind. It was like, call it. And then it was like you fucking broke buck tooth bitch self-talk you piece of shit but no I always try to tell people in my videos like you need to be intentional about consuming different things because media is not a place where you go to for creativity. It's not thinking outside the box. It's not a vision. They're packaging and selling to you what they think you want.

And when they find somebody else that is willing to do something else and be creative and other people like it, they jump on that. You know, like the Barbie movie, it made all the money. So now they're like, okay, we're going to jump on stuff like that too. Because clearly the audience wants it. But they weren't going to just make that movie. People had to fight them for it to be made. It had to have, if they were going to have a female director,

it had to be someone like Greta, who is well-known. Because they're not just going to take a chance. You know what I mean? It's just very like, the audience dictates a lot of things. And we don't give ourselves enough power or enough agency to say, if I actually want to go out of my way and purposely start supporting other things and investigating other things, I can do that. And the media and all that stuff will follow if more of us are doing that.

Like I purposely diversify when I was on Instagram, I'm taking a bit of a break right now, but when I was on there, I have made a conscious effort to follow accounts of people with different body shapes, different abilities, all of that. Because I'm like, I need to put in my face and see difference and be comfortable with that. It's like a lack of repeated exposure. The more that I expose myself to difference, the different ways that human beings can come in, the more I value human life, no matter what it looks like, the more I'm able to see any type of story that somebody tells. And I see the humanity of that person in myself, no matter what they, and I know that there are certain things I won't be able to relate to

specifically because of their identity. And I don't want to discount that. But I also think we use that as an excuse to not try to put ourselves in other people's shoes because it makes us uncomfortable we don't want to step on toes and it's like you can love people for the square fact that they are people and not need to step on toes and all this other stuff i don't know if that makes sense but yeah no totally yeah and like having it be like again just like having the prerequisite be that something needs to be relatable for you to

be able to connect with it which is absolutely not true bitch stretch out your brain muscles like stop this y'all i i teach in my screenwriting classes brag i teach screenwriting classes you can go to my website caitlinjurante.com and sign up for them centering yourself like yourself girly i said one of the reasons that theme is so important as a writer to be like cognizant of what theme you're putting forth is because like we relate to stories not because the characters have the same exact experience that we do but because those movies explore universally relatable themes that can be told via any person any type of person from any background. But the thing about privilege

is that it tends to warp your brain. And the more privilege you have and the more positions of privilege that you occupy, and especially if you're just not an inherently empathetic person, you allow that to warp you and to just turn an eye to anyone who doesn't share that same privilege as you. So that's why I think so many white people are like, well, this movie is about black people. Well, how could I possibly relate? This is not for me. There is no world in which I could relate to any of these storylines or any of these characters. Right, where you're like, I can't relate with this.

I'm like, you haven't seen the movie. You don't know that. Like you're, it's, yeah, it's very fresh. And then Save the Last Dance is an interesting case study because the cast is predominantly black, but because the protagonist is a white person, you know, you discuss this in your video as well, but it just means that now it's a bunch of black characters propping up a white protagonist

and being there to support this white narrative and this white girl's you know struggle of self-actualization like and right that's the thing that bothers me the most it's always this like privilege will give you like you said it warps your brain and it gives you this navel gazing thing where everything is about you and everything is personal like people calling out the way the world is which is like open up your pretty brown eyes and look at the world like you live in a different world than me instead of taking that as an opportunity to look inwards more it's well I want to be with this guy. And like, obviously these are all teenagers. So like, okay. But at the same time,

like privilege kind of infantilizes you too. Sure, absolutely. You really don't. And difficult things become way too hard to deal with. Cause I'm like, Derek's mama, he doesn't know where she is. They don't know. Yeah.

Shanil is in high school and has a baby. Like, yes, you lost your mom. And that is very difficult. I'm not going to ever discount that because losing a parent is so difficult. But they also lost their parent and are dealing with other stuff and are poor. Like, you know what I mean? I'm just like, girl, like, but it's an expectation. It's who, what bodies, what types of bodies and people do we expect to be in those positions

versus the ones that we don't? And I think this also works with like western audiences if you live in america and canada and you're a type person that doesn't like to watch international movies because you can't relate you could relate to many international quote-unquote international films it's international because you don't live in that part of the world but anyway like right i think about that with the movie cuties because i always will defend this movie and people will always look at me sideways. Come back and talk about Cuties. Oh, please have me back for Cuties.

I got so much to say because I am Gambian and the story is about a Senegalese girl. Gambia is inside of Senegal. It's a lot of similar cultures. Like, I could watch the movie without subtitles because I could understand the language they were speaking when it wasn't French. But yeah, she did a lot of work to try and talk to actual girls that age, interviewed a bunch of them, had a psychologist on set, all this other stuff.

And people in France and in Senegal were like, yeah, this is a good movie. Like it's pretty, you know, whatever. But people here were like, how dare you look at what you've done to the children and blah, blah, blah, blah, like freaking out about this stuff and trying to guise it under,

well, I'm never going to watch that movie because it's just groomer behavior and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, y'all have adults playing teenagers in TV shows, having sex with teachers, and you use it to justify that it's okay because they're adults and you don't see the problem with that, but you see an issue with this. You'll use any excuse to not consider other perspectives when it challenges the way you see the world oh please come back and talk about cuties oh my gosh i yeah i uh i want to re-watch it the drama around that movie lord yeah oh i remember with

sarah yeah i feel like she does have a problem and like she has something to work through to the extent that she's like lost her mom and she's lost a parent but like you're saying Khadija like her problem or that what she's working through is just more important it's just more important and the world has to bend to ushering her through that problem where like sarah is present but she doesn't take initiative to help any of her friends through their problems and the movie doesn't have that expectation of her like the movie keeps being like she's the most amazing girl to ever live and you're just like she's going through something but she's like certainly not you know like she's really really not and i feel like we see a lot of people in the movie apologizing to her profusely.

Even at the end when Chanel apologized to her, like, we still cool. I'm like, OK, maybe Chanel didn't shouldn't have been that. Like, you get a tip with your friends. She shouldn't have especially agreed with Nikki. It's like, that's the enemy, bitch. You agree with my op. But even the way Sarah's like, yeah, we're're cool but still has an attitude i'm like bitch you owe her an apology as well like it's just like it's really yeah like the world bends to

solve sarah's problem and solve sarah's life while like playing into a lot of stereotypes that just like the whole thing is really undercooked it feels like yes that's a good word and again it's a white protagonist but a predominantly black cast otherwise but i think like this movie was so popular and like popular among my age bracket and i don't know if young people are still we probably not but i feel like they're like okay how do we make this movie that has a predominantly black cast palatable to a mainstream white audience exactly and it feels like the movie just caters to that constantly because again like sarah is very rarely challenged anytime someone does challenge her she just like gets up and walks away and doesn't do

any introspection or like again she doesn't learn or grow except when it comes to learning hip-hop and then she just which arguably she does i wish she doesn't do very well either but like the story is told in such a way where it's like, okay, this is palatable for white audiences, because we're just watching her kind of just do whatever she wants, appropriate whatever she wants, not learning lessons along the way. the show, Jordaine Searles has a piece called White Girls, Better Black Women and Save the Last Dance, where she talks about how Chenille was like done so dirty and has like good points and is actually challenging Sarah and saying like, look around you, you're taught that there's only one world, but like black people know differently. And rather than like Sarah being like, hmm, maybe there's something to this. Maybe I should, you know,

look at this from a different point of view. She just like gets up and leaves the crowded medical facility that they're in. And she's just like, well, this is making me uncomfortable. So I have to leave. It's like, you came with me to this appointment. I'm asking you for help.

Also, girl, open up your pretty brown eyes. You over here sitting here worried about your jewelry audition. I got a baby that I need to take care of. Yeah. Dad is trying my patience every two minutes. It's like people will often depict black women as bitter, but not go into why they might be bitter. For sure. Why? Why why am i angry because i don't think being bitter or angry is a bad emotion to have i'm like lean into the anger lean into your villain era like feel your feelings but why is it that me feeling those feelings makes you so uncomfortable to the point where you have to walk away or you step away or i have to come and apologize to you no bitch i'm feeling something i'm upset about it you're lucky i'm telling come and apologize to you. No, bitch. I'm feeling something. I'm upset about it.

You're lucky I'm telling you and talking to you about it instead of either ignoring you. But she refuses to engage. And that's the thing with a lot of like, yeah, I always test white folks that are new to my life with how I can engage with them on topics about race, because I'm like, I'm not going to act like race isn't a thing. Like, obviously, I want to see people as people. I'm a human ass, you know. But I'm also live in the real world and try to think practically. And so if any time I'm talking to you about racial issues or things happening to people in different parts of the world and you, your immediate response is to disengage to like, I can't. You're showing me that you can't deal with hard things or you don't want

to. You choose to not deal with hard things, which you're allowed to when you have a certain amount of privilege, when you live even in a certain part of the world, when you have a certain amount of income. So then I just know that you're not for me. And I could not be friends with Sarah because I'd be like, girl. Oh, yeah. Nikki was annoying for what she said, but she said she has a bit of a point. She's like, sorry, she does. She does. A broke clock is right twice a day. And Sarah refuses to even consider that there is any truth to what Nikki saying to what she Neil saying. And just I don't know, it has this like superhuman ability to make the takeaway from every scene be about her. You know what it is? Oh my God. Okay. I had a, I have a few biracial friends and one of them, one of my best friends, she says

that her fear is always, her mom is white and her dad's black. Her fear is always that her mom would say some shit like, I'm not racist. I have black children. Like that's always her deep fear. And I had never thought of that before. Cause I'm not biracial. And I remember being like, oh my God,, that is actually because people will. Sarah thinks that she is standing in resistance and solidarity and defiance because she is dating a black guy. Mm hmm. It's giving Kim Kardashian when she wrote

that letter about, oh, my God, I'm going to have black children and I can't believe that the world will treat them this way. And Chris was like, really proud of you, Kim. And I was like, girl, your children are so fucking wealthy. Your kids are not, not to say that they might not, they're going to deal with stuff, whatever,

but like your kids that will be able to have security, get driven in black, tinted out window cars everywhere. Those are the black kids you're worried about. Yeah. I managed to wipe that, that statement from my mind i forgot about that sorry no but there is this phenomenon of you know white people being like well i can't be racist i have a black friend or i'm dating a black guy or i like do you know a black person or are you actually friends with them because like a lot of y'all know black people but are you actually friends with them? Because like a lot of y'all know black people, but are you actually friends with any?

Do you hang out? Do you go to their house? Yeah. This is, yeah. I'm like, and also you need to have more than like, this is the other thing. You need to make a conscious effort. Some people you can't help where you live, right? Unless you have the money to move places.

So if you live in areas where you're only seeing black people, like you don't see black people that much. And the only interaction you have is through the media different types of media not just tv shows and movies advertising whatever when you meet a black person you're using your frame of reference what do you know about black people even if it's not you intentionally doing it it's like a knee jerk response we're always sussing out places always trying to suss out information whatever if i had never seen a white person before and I watch movies all the time, white people in it, girl, I'm using the stereotypes first. Cause I'm like, is that, are you going to be able to handle the spicy food?

You know, like shit like that. But I also have grown up in so many different types of environments where I've been in predominantly black spaces, predominantly Hispanic schools, predominantly white schools as well. So like, yeah, it's interesting when you note that people have never had to go out of their comfort zones in terms of their physical identity and how little we mix or integrate, actually. I can speak to the experience of growing up in a predominantly white community. I grew up in a small rural town in western Pennsylvania. There was very, very, very little racial biases growing up. I didn't know any better. And like you said, my frame of reference was the media I was consuming. And it wasn't until I went to college and actually like met and befriended people who weren't white and started to learn and interrogate. And I had to do so much unlearning of like what I had learned as far as stereotypes and tropes. And the idea of systemic racism was something I was only like peripherally understanding and familiar with.

And I had to do so much work to learn more about it. So yes, these are real things. But the problem is that most people who do have this white privilege, like we said, it warps them and they don't want to be bothered. They don't feel like it's their place to comment on it or to think about it. It doesn't affect them. So why would they spend the time to do anything like that? Yeah. I mean, even conversely, I grew up in a predominantly black and Hispanic neighborhood. And that I because I feel like the way that this is presented is that like Julia Stiles, by being a white girl in a predominantly black space, that's all it takes to do the work is just by like, hanging out for a couple of weeks. And it's like, that's absolutely not true. There are white people in my community that are tremendously racist. Like it's just feels like it's this very movie presentation that sets the bar. It like a sub zero,

like in the core of the earth to be like, to actually have engaged with any issue on race, which again, like we were talking about, Sarah doesn't, she does not engage. Like she's around, but she combated that white lady in the train and that was it she defeated racism the lady and you're just like it's

just i don't know i mean i guess it does go back to your point katie j i was like it's just like unbelievably hollywood and it's like the problem of racism has to be solved and it's like the stakes are the same as getting into juilliard in spite of having no talent. And like these are the two and they're equally important because fucking who knows. When you said you grew up in probably black and Hispanic neighborhood, I was like, I'm always fascinated by white people like that. Not because I'm like, what was that like? But just because I'm like, okay, like, so you've grown up around in proximity to people and you felt what it has been like to be a minority. I think more than anything, too many people don't experience what it's like to be a minority somewhere. And so they don't ever consider again, that practicing the empathy muscle of, oh,

no, I get that actually. Cause I know what it feels like on a human, as you were saying before, themes, right? Like a universal theme of feeling like a fish out of water, feeling out of place somewhere, feeling like the only whatever, whatever somewhere. A lot of people don't ever have to have that experience. Even when we travel to places, people will go to resorts and whatever,

just so they don't have to be around the locals. And like, it's just kind of, you know, it's very like, we really don't like to let go of our comfort. People don't like to be uncomfortable. And, you know, but that was before 9-11, baby. Then we got, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Then everything changed. No, but like Sarah's like white discomfort is something that we see throughout the movie.

And it's just like, no, it was actually fine for her to walk away from that conversation with Shanil where Shanil is making good points. And but because it made Sarah the white girl uncomfortable, she has to leave. And then it's actually chanel who owes sarah an apology by the end and it's just like for making her uncomfortable this is like off topic but like i have some issues with how like self-care stuff is sort of present like mental health there i think that a lot of like mental health languages has been co-opted to get people out of uncomfortable conversations they need to be having that they don't want to be having. I'm working on a video about therapy speak. Oh my gosh.

Oh, I can't wait. That is a rant in my spirit. It's going to be crash landed into my algorithm. I mean, it is wild. I think that there is a like self-care lens you can apply to that scene where we're saying that Julia Stiles' character is clearly wrong where it's like she had to protect her energy from the discomfort. She doesn't need to engage with that, which is just like telegraphic that like she doesn't need to engage with issues around race and poverty because they don't affect her. And you're just like, well, I'm excited for that video. Thank you.

Poor Malachi. Okay, Malachi. Malachi deserved more too because he was there was a lot there was masculinity your respect a particular black masculinity and what does that do that expectation especially when you don't have as he's saying like the smarts like allegedly he

doesn't have the smarts like Derek like to go to Georgetown he's like like, this is what I have. I'm like, OK, that's something. But no, no, he's just a mean. I mean, he was abusive and terrible. So, yeah, like, you know. Right. And it's like Malachi doesn't really have a chance with the other because we see him being physically abusive to a student. But we don't see the nice part of him we only hear that like he was willing

to go to juvie for derrick which is an admirable trait to do like he's like they threw everything at him and he said i'm not gonna snitch like there could have been even that moment when he came to julia styles i forgot what had happened before i watched it so i thought he was gonna come up to her and try to like talk to her or like say something I don't know I just thought that maybe there was going to be a conversation there instead of just your oil and milk but I'm also like maybe maybe all of these characters

are defensive and apprehensive around Julia because it don't seem like she wants to listen so they're all like bitch you white and on top of that she's weird and she's weird and she's not very good at dancing yeah what i found interesting about that especially the malachi derrick friendship is something that i observe a lot among men and their friendships

with each other is that someone who has seen a different side of a person will say like, hey, that guy was really shitty to me, or I saw that guy doing something really awful. Maybe you shouldn't be friends with him. And the guy's like, well, I haven't seen that. I've only seen the good side of him. So I don't believe you slash I don't think what you're saying is valid this is a thing that i mean just speaking to my experience as a comedian there will be like male comedians who are singing the praises of another male comedian i'll be like oh that's interesting because um that guy like sexually harassed me and then they're like well he was nice to me so yo you are right that

is a point to bring up too because like that's the other thing it's like i wish that they would have explored their friendship more so that at least we as the audience understand why derrick has such an allegiance to this guy that just seems like he hates women in general not just white women but especially white women yeah yeah but the movie glosses over that yeah i feel like the way the malachi character is handled is super messy where it's like from it feels like the empathy that the movie has for him changes from scene to scene depending on like what needs to happen in the scene and so it just comes off super messy some of the lines he says are funny such as that the black man's life madness and mayhem

and i was like what the what this is the other thing this is where sorry go ahead before i just put a bit that was the that was the end of that particular thought it just i'm gonna sound like an angry bitter black feminist but like you know what actually they deserved each other because thing, black men will try to victimize themselves as much as white women will sometimes. And I'm just like, y'all go ahead. Not obviously I'm not talking about all black men or all white women. Because I got to say that. Because y'all be like, yeah.

But truly must be a day ending in Y. When a black man says that's a black man's world. Madness and mayhem. So that's why you had that girl yoked up in the bathroom right like girl i just yeah that friendship felt like under examined i mean which gets to something that i was feeling sort of throughout the movie where it's like the movie has obviously an interest in derrick and in chanel but like not to the same extent that they're interested in Sarah. So there's stuff that will be introduced to us that kind of just goes away

or the movie's attitude kind of flip flops because it seems like what's important to the movie is that Sarah's journey is on track and consistent. And so if things get a little sloppier to the characters around her, no big deal. I have a question for y'all. Do you know what the plot of Save the Last Dance to? Is it the same thing where it's another white girl that goes into a black area? I've never seen it. I have no idea.

So my understanding is that it's a continuation of Sarah's story, although it's not played by Julia Stiles. So it's like, I think it's just juilliard okay wait let me i'm on the wikipedia thing okay so yes she's at juilliard she's now played by isabella miko who is in coyote ugly apparently okay coyote ugly now sorry here's a sentence that jumped out at me oh no i'm pretty sure she just gets a different black boyfriend at juilliard during orientation on her first day at juilliard sarah meets miles sultana who takes her for a trombone player when she what what does that mean i don't know i think that she's a trombone player and not a ballet dancer yes when she tells him she is

there for ballet he questions whether she is a ballerina Sarah boldly states she's already a ballerina she's there to become a prima ballerina so she just dates another guy by Columbus Short of course it's Columbus Short he was in all those dance

movies okay is he in stomp the yard yeah okay i fucking love stomp the yard this whole decade of dance movies you're just like my god let's have fun again bring back the dance movie y'all let's write one let's do a dance movie my dream movie since you're a screenplay writer i'm going to give you this idea and like if it ever comes to fruition i just want a little percentage it's like an enemies to lovers cheerleader rivalry where the two captains are you know they're the femme girlies but they're enemy teams and then they both end up at a gay

conversion camp and have to break out together and that's how they become lovers and while that's happening on the inside on the outside their teams are coming together to try and like i don't know what the plot is like bring it on but i'm a cheerleader like yes that's the whole thing i think you should write this i'll teach you i'm not a writer i not a writer. I'm big ideas. But when it comes to sitting down and writing it, I'm like, girl, I don't know. This is hard. Oh, goodness. No, that sounds like a great story.

But yeah, Save the Last Dance 2. I haven't seen it. Can't really say. Save the Last Dance 2, dance to the streets Havana nights all or nothing I was like now we've done them all does anyone guess Havana nights

is probably another example of that of like white girl goes into Spanish culture and learns how to dance I haven't seen it though so I don't know. I love dirty dancing. It was my introduction to Diego Luna. He's the romantic lead in it.

And yeah, that was on heavy sleepover rotation. Unfortunately, baby Diego Luna brag. Does anyone have anything else they would like to talk about? Oh, gosh. I feel like we could keep talking for hours. Truly.

I'm like, what is this movie? Yeah, I was like, are there any other lines that I particularly thought were interesting? I do think it's hilarious that Chenille is like, she, you know, dreams of going to fashion school and she like designs and like puts together all these outfits but i'm like are her outfits good because i feel like yeah they should have thought more about that they're not they should have thought more about that like just the way and i know she like styled her in the car and stuff and like did that quick change whatever but yeah they don't really like they give yeah we need more about that we need more chanel in general i was like i don't know enough about 2001 well i i felt like

a missed opportunity that i thought because we learn about chanel and derek's mom really late in the plot like it's presented as a twist that is not a twist and it's like why couldn't we have just learned this earlier it's because the movie doesn't care about them the same way it cares about sarah but that felt like because and again this is like a plot point that is like riddled with stereotypes but their mom is absent it's described that she's in jail quote for drugs ellipses for things women do for drugs ellipses and you're like okay uh but even if we're just taking the plot point that sarah and chanel's mother are both absent they're not like that is like a chance for an opportunity a chance to connect like something you could have said that from early on yeah i lost my right

whatever but also this is the part where i was like ah y'all should have let the black people leave because mama dean would have come around the corner and been like, yeah, them drugs that Reagan planted, you know. like and then do Derek and Sarah have anything in common aside from the fact that they've both read Capote and have opinions on it that they read for class I just it feels like another like undercooked romance where it's like what do they like about each other what do they have in common Derek toes the line of being in his world but also he wants to go to Georgetown and he knows about Capote and he's a black intellectual so

like there's a certain like he's classed differently than the people around him because of that intelligence and because of the way he can talk and how he can code switch and go back and forth. He doesn't really code switch that much but like you know just know, just like he's teeters that line, I guess, of being black, but not Malachi black or Snooki black.

Right. So is the movie implying that because he is like a quiet intellectual, then he like it makes sense for him to be with a white person? Like, I don't know i got the vibe of like less that and more like maybe it's a respectability thing of like okay we want to show different depictions of black folks so we have the nerdy black dudes for a quick second but derrick is a black man that like anyone would want not even just black women but even a white girl would want he's smart he is driven like even a white girl would want. He's smart. He is driven.

Like, that's what she Neal's talking about. She's like, he's going to make something of his life. He's not going to have kids and just leave them like and we don't have enough of that. And I'm like, oh, no, it's bleak. I will say to pay this movie a tiny little compliment, even though it doesn't handle anything thoughtfully, that at this time in the early 2000s, very few movies featured an interracial relationship.

We very rarely saw interracial kisses. Oh, I guess the last time was Jungle Fever. And that was the 80s jungle fucking fever oh i still never seen the bodyguard the bodyguard yeah sure there are a few early early 90s it was rare it was pretty rare for a while you got like one a decade yeah yeah pretty much and like movies that maybe had almost like an implied interracial romance such as like men in black where it's like will smith and then i forget the actor's name but they don't kiss there's no interracial kiss on screen in many cases so i was like okay bad boys as think. Yeah, I feel like we had that same conversation on that episode as well. Point is that there was very little representation of interracial relationships or like physical contact at this time.

Not that it's necessarily a representation when as far as how that relationship plays out but it is representation of it see this is the thing with representation if there is more more of it just more of it the clumsy versions that come through they're not as big a deal right you know like it's not as big a deal say the last dance is like okay cute whatever but because there are so few and far between and because if one doesn't do well immediately it's like well that's a wrap you know it's just like yeah yes let's just allow ourselves to make more bad depictions so that we can have enough and more pictures of it just like being normalized rather than because like a lot of the discourse between the characters in this movie are characters discussing. Is this a good idea?

Should interracial relationships happen? Whereas if it's more representation of just like two people who are in love and they're together and they happen to be an interracial couple and that's just presented as a perfectly normal thing yeah but we were getting very little of that at the time are there any movies that y'all can think of movies or tv shows that you can think of where they've had an interracial couple of like any mix that you've been like oh this was a pretty interesting take i feel like i've pointed out different examples of this on various episodes. I can't even remember the movies anymore, but I know I've made the comment of like,

oh, this is an interracial couple where no attention is brought to it. It's just presented as like a very normalized thing. We covered, I don't think that this is necessarily the best example. We covered something new last year. I know that that was another movie about interracial relationships that was a little all over the place but it's like hitch hitch yeah hitch there you go god we haven't covered it yet but oh romeo must die listen i'm not gonna lie i fucking love romeo let's die that's really brave of you thank you thank you yep yep i thought this was a safe space i'm i'm just looking up yeah something

new is on there othello oh oh i guess brandy cinderella i guess yeah that is brandy cinderella brandy cinderella is the perfect example of that because they really just let us pop into a fantasy world and have fun. I wish Bridgerton would have done that from the beginning. Just do that. Just do that. I feel like we see interracial couples in media more today than we used to, certainly. But at least in this era, it is. I mean, but there were also other movies that featured interracial couples in dance movies

specifically around yes this time like it was a thing they're bringing two worlds together exactly and it always centers usually a white girl who's like learning tolerance and a little something about herself and you're like all right that's the tagline yeah real quick i wanted to point out there's that moment where sarah is given the fake id so that she can get into steps where at least 50 of the movie takes place it seems they never go anywhere else it's always steps always and she's given this fake id and sarah sees the photo and she's like oh she's ugly she's fat oh girl and that is just a thing that's said in the movie without being challenged and that was pretty nasty she's 21 right end of scene yeah there's i mean there's a lot of parts of this movie i mean that are very of the era in just kind of like dismissive

and weird ways it's an extremely 2001 movie yeah in any case does this movie pass the bechdel test uh yeah it does yeah i mean you know that's the positive we can say that is just further proof that it's uh you know it's one metric invented as a joke but it does it does pass it does pass yeah at least between sarah and chanil and then i also think between sarah and her mom in the two seconds in this movie where she's alive yes where she's like come on and then her mom's like it's a florist emergency or fucking whatever sure also between sarah and nikki when they're fighting but yeah it does pass but what about our metric the most important media metric ever conceived the nipple scale zero to five nipples and we rate it based on examining the

movie through an intersectional feminist lens i would not rate this movie highly the bit issue said intersectional feminist lens i was like oh i gotta take off two more points yeah yeah yeah yeah um so honestly i mean it was a very 2001 attempt to examine something that the movie did not have the capacity to examine meaningfully at all. And based on how it's basically just a movie about a white girl who appropriates Black culture and any time that anyone calls her out or she's made to feel uncomfortable, the movie is just like, yeah, can't you sense how uncomfortable she is and isn't that too bad and they need to apologize to her for it right she's doing the best she can she's doing her best it's such a hard situation for her to be in can't you see that and it's just like

no all of the framing around that is really quite silly. So I'll give it a half nipple for showing an interracial kiss in 2001. Yay. I thought I was mean. I was going to give it 1.3 nipples. Oh, I mean, please unpack it. But that's only because they employed more black people that's

literally it because black people were on the payroll a lot of people got a paycheck yes whether that paycheck was good is uh but you know i mean based on kerry washington's anecdote about having to return to teaching after this movie because she couldn't quit her day job because what you would think would have been a role that should have paid the bills for a while uh didn't do that so oops i'm gonna go one nipple i think yeah this movie is not doing very much and i don't know i don't think i have anything else to add to it it's just like a movie with a predominantly black cast that still manages to be about a white woman it's kind of like holy shit they really bamboozled us they it was deceptive yeah they got us also not for nothing like i know we are mostly talking about the themes the characters it's boring this movie's boring yeah

there's long stretches of it that i was bored yeah and the dancing isn't fun to watch because it's no at least step up 3d and step up to like the shit was like they were doing they were dancing there's a reason i own stomp the yard on dvd it is fun not you admitting you own stomp yard on dvd you own that movie on how long have you had that dvd probably when did it come out like 2007 so you have an old oh wow i bought it in like as soon as it came out on dvd because i saw it in theaters twice oh my god me finding that just what i don't know anybody else that had owes that movie like just no one not race or anything i just don't know anyone that owes that movie or saw that movie twice in theaters i can't explain it i just listen really i love i love romeo must die so I just really spoke to me. Listen, I love Romeo Must Die. So, and my favorite problematic movie is The Hot Chick. It is so problematic.

Oh my God, I have never seen it. I have so much fun watching that movie. It is so- Come back for cuties in The Hot Chick. Rachel McAdams, one of her first movies. A young Ashley Simpson is in there as a little cameo. Wild. It's, yeah.

Well, anyway, there you have it. That's our Save the Last Dance episode. Khadija, thank you so much for joining us. It's been an absolute treat. Please come back for any movie, cuties or literally anything. Where can people check out your work, follow you online, plug away?

You can find me at khadija.bo on TikTok, Instagram. What's that other one? I don't go on X, but I have one. You can find me on YouTube. Just look up Khadija.bo. Yeah, and if you want to check out some of the stuff that I'm doing that isn't online related,

Operatica, the pole opera show that I'm producing, you know, the landing page just says coming soon, but the image is pretty cute. So check it out and follow the Instagram operatica events. That's O P E R A T I K A events. Amazing. Hell yeah.

And you can check us out on social media at Bechtelcast. You can go to our Patreon where, again, rather than releasing the Save the Last Dance episode there, which was our original intention, we swapped it out for a burlesque episode. So you can enjoy. Really rich discussion going on over there as well as flash dance and that's five bucks a month for two new episodes every month and access to our entire back catalog you can also get our merch over at tpublic.com slash the vectal cast and with that let's go to our juilliard audition but be careful don't get in a car because it's gonna crash jesus bye the bechdel cast is a production of iheart media hosted by caitlin dorante and jamie loftus

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