The Bechdel Cast - The Sound of Music with Nelini Stamp

Episode Date: March 28, 2024

The hills are alive with the sound of the Bechdel Cast! Special guest Nelini Stamp joins Caitlin and Jamie for an episode on The Sound of Music! Follow Nelini on Instagram at @nelstamp and follow @workingfamilies across all platforms!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that?

That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller

from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality,

cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Attention Bechtelcast listeners, especially those who live in the UK or Ireland and or anywhere that you could easily get to either of those places. We're going on tour, baby. And it's not just any tour. It's the Shrek-tanic tour. That's right. Shrek and or Titanic are the movies we're covering on this tour at the demand of us and you? See you there. We'll figure it out. Yeah.

You might have heard other episodes where we've talked about Titanic or talked about one of the Shrek movies, but you're in for some surprises on this tour. We're going to be doing stuff you haven't seen before. There's going to be games. There's going to be clips. There's going to be costumes. There's going to be all kinds of new and interesting and exciting things. It's a spectacle.

It's going to be fun. It's a celebration of the movies, but it's also just a celebration of the show and the Bechtel cast community. We've never done a full tour across the pond before, and we're very, very excited to come and see everybody. So hopefully if you're in the area, you can make it. across the pond before and we're very very excited to come and see everybody so hopefully if you're in the area you can make it it's during the spring we're gonna have fun our first leg of the tour is in london on may 22nd there are two shows that night a 6 30 show on shrek and a nine

o'clock show on titanic next on may 24th, we are going to be in Oxford as a part of the St. Audio Podcast Festival. Then we're scooting up to Edinburgh on May 26th. We are covering Shrek. Then on May 28th, we are in Manchester, once again covering Titanic. And finally, a show that we recently added in Dublin on May 29th. That is also a Titanic show. We're so excited to meet everybody. We chose two of our favorite movies

so that we could celebrate the community and just have a good time. So please come out. You can get all of the tickets over at our link tree, which is in the description link tree slash Bechtel cast. And we hope to see you there. We have such ridiculous outfits. Oh my gosh. And exclusive merch and everything else. So you don't even know how many videos I've edited for these shows to screen. I'm so excited for everyone to see.

Incredible flex. Thank you. All right. excited for everyone to see. Incredible flex. Thank you. All right. We will see you there. See you there. On the Bechdel cast, the questions asked, if movies have women in them,

are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdel cast. The hills are alive. Wow, my beautiful singing voice. With the sound of music.

With the sound of podcasts, of course. Can you imagine? I mean, that's a real dystopia. If the hills are alive with the sound of podcasts, that is like so, I would be so scared. And this is my job. And I cannot advocate for a world in which The Hills Are Alive With The Sound Of Podcasts. That's a dangerous world.

That's a slippery slope. That's dystopia for sure. Yeah, that's hell. The Hills Are Alive With The Sound Of Podcasts in hell. Hell is alive with The Sound Of Podcast inhale hell is alive with the sound of podcast and boy is it uh welcome to that i quite liked that opening oh okay welcome to the bechtel cast my name is jv loftus my name is caitlin durante and this is our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the bechtdel test simply as a jumping

off point, something to inspire larger conversations about representation and things of that nature. But Jamie, what's the Bechdel test though? Well, the Bechdel test is a media metric created by Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel-Wallace test because she co-created it with her friend Liz Wallace. Originally appeared in her amazing comics collection, Dykes to Watch Out For, as a joke, pointing out how not just how infrequently, that's the word I was looking for, how infrequently women talk in movies,

but how infrequently queer women appear in movies at all. This later became a more sort of sanitized media metric that we use as a jumping off point for discussion. So the version of the test that we use and talk about for all of three seconds in every episode is that we require two characters of a marginalized gender with names talk to each other about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue and it should be plot moving dialogue yeah that is the bechdel test and the hills are it's just like Joe Rogan?

Oh my God. Don't even put that out into the universe. Sometimes I like to think about what would be an interesting version of hell. That's a fun one. Completely empty. Or the hills are beautiful. The weather is perfect all the time but you can't turn off the joe rogan so you can never enjoy it yikes yeah that does sound like

hell thank you so much anyway the movie we're talking about today is the sound of music if you haven't figured it out and we have an amazing guest joining us today. She is the director of strategy and partnerships for the Working Families Party. She's the co-founder of the Resistance Revival Chorus. She's also a former children's theater actress

and has ties to this very musical. It's Nalini Stamp. Hi. A.K.A. Sister Abbas. Was that the part you played? Mother Superior. Mother Superior. Hi. A.K.A. Sister Abbas. Was that the part you played? Mother Superior. Mother Superior. My mistake.

My mistake. No, no, no. It's okay. But yes, I got to sing Climb Every Mountain on my falsetto soprano voice. But thanks for having me, y'all. Oh, my gosh. Thanks for being here. What a get.

Truly awesome. I might break out into song some point. Oh, please. Please. On an episode like this, it's unavoidable. I kind of forgot how many hits are, I mean, it's really all hits in The Sound of Music. Okay, so let's, Nalini, let's start with you. What is your history with The Sound of Music, the movie, the show?

Tell us everything. Yep. So I first watched Sound of Music, the movie, when show. Tell us everything. So I first watched Sound of Music, the movie, when I was six years old. I think it was one of the first. My aunt still has like the whole Rodgers and Hammerstein collection of musical, like VHS. She still has them.

And so we would watch all of them, a lot of them pretty racist, like Flower Drum Song. And so, yeah. and the king and I somewhat you know and so yeah but I loved the music I mean I loved singing Rodgers and Hammer sign Julie Andrews is a hero of mine I mean I literally get emotional saying her name like especially since she can't sing anymore it's like I know or sing the way she used to you know and so I saw it and then saw it on a Broadway tour probably when I was about 10 I was a child actress I had a screen actress guild card I thought I was going to be on Broadway so I was

in Staten Island Children's Theater for many years from when I was eight till I was 18 so 10 years of Staten Island Children's Theater Association shout out to Sikta and I played eight till I was 18. So 10 years of Staten Island Children's Theater Association. Shout out to SICTA. And I played, I think it was my sophomore year of high school. I went to the fame school. I'm gonna live forever for vocal music. So like I went. Oh my God.

Nicki Minaj was two years older than me, which was hilarious. And, you know, and so it's sophomore year, but I went into a children's theater group. Like I love them. They're amazing. They're still some of my good friends, but it was mostly white. And I was one of maybe two black young girls. And, you know, we were auditioning for the sound of music. And I think I remember somebody be like, Oh, you should be one of the Vontrap kids. And somebody was like, but how does that make sense? And I was like, oh, you should be one of the Von Trapp kids. And somebody was like, but how does that make sense? And I was like, oh, it's like, oh, Jesus. But then they gave me the role of Mother Superior. And, you know, the musical is different than the movie. Right. Like my favorite things isn't sung

by Julie Andrews. It's sung by the nuns like Mother Superior. So like I was like, oh, I get my favorite things like great. Like, you know, I was like, ooh, I get my favorite things. Like, great. Like, you know, I was, like, really excited about that stuff. But, you know, it was actually the 60th anniversary of the movie in December. They re-released the whole album. And I just, like, listened to it again. I started crying because I was like, wait, now we're actually dealing with Nazis. Like, again. Again.

In the world. Like, and so I was just like, ugh. I was like, Edelweiss was, like, playing and I was just like, I was like, Adel Weiss was like playing and I was just sitting there just rocking myself back and forth on a bed, just listening to it. And I got to meet the director too because he also directed West Side Story.

I got to meet the director before he died because I went to the 50th anniversary of West Side Story and I met Rita Moreno when I was 12, which was my hero as a Puerto Rican. West Side Story was very that to me. So it just, yeah, so this, I mean, Sound of Music has had something in my life for my whole life. And to this day, I'm like, oh, wow, these songs are like, yeah, we're not the Von Trapps, but we have to face off some of this stuff. So yeah.

Yeah. That's really beautiful. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. Caitlin, what's your history with The Sound of Music? I had only seen it once before, I believe, in college when I was just watching a bunch of iconic movies that I hadn't seen yet. And I watched it and I famously am not a big musical person i'm so sorry everybody unless it's an animated movie musical or unless it's like a very wacky absurdist like dicks the musical i loved is it good i haven't seen it yet i'm very excited to see it and i know it's great but this is it's very funny to listen to you repeatedly be like dicks the musical is better than the sound of music you can quote me on that yeah it's just like a god tier take

it really is it's a very caitlin take as well but i do love dicks the musical sound of music i like but it's no dicks the musical it's no dicks the musical yeah it's a little maybe it's like too earnest for me i don't know like obviously julie andrews is so talented and amazing and like so extremely likable in every movie that she's in but as someone who's not a musical oriented person i saw it once and i was like yeah that was enough But, you know, I watched it twice to prep for this episode and was like, oh, I forgot that so many of these like very familiar songs that are still in the zeitgeist are from this movie in this musical. So I was like, oh, it's wild. It's

really wild. Right. All of these songs are from this. So that was a nice reminder. The closest experience I can think to it is like every time you go to see like the nutcracker you're like oh every single piece in this is very famous and i sort of like i rediscover that every time i like listen to the nutcracker around christmas same deal with this musical you're like it's all hits. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie, what about you? I didn't get into this when I was a kid. I think it was just, like, it was too long for me. I'm not sure what it was. Or maybe I was just in Barry Poppins girly.

I don't know why I was like, I have to pick one Julie Andrews 60s stander. Takes care of children. Yeah. Character. That is almost the same movie yeah they came out back to back and it's like she's just doing it she's like this is the blonde version although like the sound of music has way more going on but also no cartoon penguins and so you're just like that's something to keep in mind as you're watching the sound of music there's never going to be a cartoon penguin. True.

I guess it would be tasteless given the subject matter. Anyways, I wasn't a huge fan of it as a kid. I knew all the songs. I love, love, love Julie Andrews. And this was a really interesting musical to revisit. I knew all the main points, but I forgot a lot of the smaller plot points. And completely by coincidence, I recently saw Cabaret for the first time, which I mean, it couldn't be a more different musical, but shares a lot of the themes and the DNA of this musical where Cabaret takes place in late Weimar, Germany and Berlin. And also, I think in a very different and more cynical way, asks the viewer like, well, what would you do if you were in this position? And in Cabaret, I mean,

I saw Cabaret at the Vista last week and it blew me away. I mean, it's like that movie's fucked up, but it was terrific. Yeah. And then prepping for Sound of music a couple days later the music couldn't be more different but it takes place a couple years later and is in some ways asking the viewer the same question it was interesting to watch back to back i texted my mom i was like mom do you love the sound of music and i got like a wall of text uh the answer is yes she said when I first saw it at the movies it was the first movie she saw in theaters oh wow she was like four when it came out

and she said when I saw it at the movies with my grandma Viv I decided I wanted to be the problem to be solved just like Maria okay mother that's iconic that's iconic she said the idea was not to control her

simply let her be thank you for being you I was like thanks mom I got so hyped this morning wow that's amazing that's amazing it's also interesting that you just said the like the question because I feel like a lot of musicals did that in the six movie musicals like it was that it was fiddler on the roof it was right like all these things were like what would you do if you were there while we're singing and do you have iconic songs that people still know to this day so it's like I mean if I were a rich I mean I almost said if I were a rich girl because it got turned into oh my god and Gwen Stefani, hi. Right, no, no, no. Yeah, Gwen Stefani was ripping these off.

Oh, goodness. Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll come back for the recap. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts

the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life.

It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. One session. 24 hours. BPM 110. 120.

She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything?

You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from blumhouse television iheart radio and realm listen to dream sequence on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts when you think of mexican culture you think of avocado mariachi delicious cuisine and of course

it doesn't get more mexican than this l Libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport and much more than just entertainment. Lucha Libre is a type of storytelling. It's a dance. It's tradition. It's culture. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish

about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, the emperor of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, the emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Santos! Santos! Join me as we learn more about the history behind this spectacular sport from its inception in the United States to how it became a global symbol of Mexican culture.

We'll learn more about some of the most iconic heroes in the ring. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. And we are back. And here's the recap of Sound of Music.

I don't know if we need like a content warning here, but we're going to be talking about Nazis and Nazi Germany. So just so everyone knows. Okay, here we go. We are just outside Salzburg, Austria. It's at the sound of music. And that's the name of the movie. And boy, are they. The opening shot to this movie is so beautiful.

Beautiful. It still makes me gasp. It's so beautiful. I'm like, should i move to austria i might i don't know i don't think that's the lesson of the movie necessarily then why make it look so beautiful at the beginning okay we cut to a convent where some nuns are talking and then singing about mar, saying that she's too whimsical, that she's a flibberty gibbet, if you will.

Got her ass. Most of them like her, but she's not a very good nun. They can all agree. And so the Reverend Mother basically fires Maria from being a nun. But like in a nice way. I always I forget how nice. How do you solve a problem like Maria? They're like, cut her loose.

Let her explore the world. It challenged immediately. I realized how set the nun trope is in my head where I'm like, nuns are mean. Nuns, they probably hate her because she likes to sing and have fun but then I was like no I'm thinking of the sister act nuns this is not the sister act yeah I mean one of the lyrics is how do you catch a cloud and bring her down like they don't call her they say she's a cloud how do you hold a moonbeam in your hand yeah yeah I want my co-workers to talk about me like that well jamie i do i call

you a moonbeam and a cloud every day sure jamie doesn't show up but she's great which is that whole that whole song passes the vectal test and is so sweet i know i also wanted to shout out marnie nixon plays one of the sisters and she is extremely famous although it very rarely appears in stuff because she was the famous like dubbed voice of the 50s and 60s when natalie wood is singing in west side story no she's not marnie nixon is singing. When Audrey Hepburn is singing in My Fair Lady. No, she's not. Marnie Nixon is singing. The King and I, also her, like she was the ghost singer.

And so the fact that she was physically in this movie was like a big deal. Yeah. Wow. Also singing in the rain vibes of a singer dubbing for another actor. And that's a movie we're about to cover so it's all connected her web connects them all madam webb's web sorry i kept thinking about madam webb a week later okay so maria is fired from being a nun and Reverend Mother's like, you're no longer married to God. So now you can go off.

God divorced you. Yeah, she got divorced from God. But the Reverend Mother sends Maria to be a governess for a family nearby, the Von Trapp family. Okay, bear with me. I think that this is where the movie, for the good chunk of the first half and then a little bit at the end, this movie, I was like, wait, this is School of Rock.

Like, okay, what Julie Andrews is doing with the Von Trapps is literally what Jack Black does in School of Rock. That is true. The whole, when they're putting together their first song it was like dun dun dun dun dun. That's Do Re Mi. That's a good point. And then Joan Cusack is Captain Von

Trapp basically because doesn't she need to like learn to lighten up as the movie goes on? Yeah. Whoa. Exactly. I'm actually officially gagged right now. I'm actually officially gagged right now. I'm actually officially gagged right now. School of Rock is my favorite movie.

And so I'm always looking for things to be more like it. But this time I was like, wait, it's actually working. At the end, when the kids from School of Rock go back and be like, we have to get Dewey. We got to get to the concert. The Von Trapps do that. They go back and they're like, we got to get Maria. We we gotta get to the concert the von traps do that they go back and they're like we gotta get maria we love her they do they do oh my god this is a revelation also connection that film was filmed in staten island oh yeah school of rock was all filmed so we were all trying to do jack back sightings when when that yeah so there was a big thing in Staten Island wow I mean even the

naming convention of both movie titles School of Rock Sound of Music exactly exactly somebody asked Mike White this question I guess I don't really have anything else to say about it just that I was like wow Sound of Music is World Wari school of rock and now you know now we know okay so maria is sent to be the governess for the von trapp family the father is a navy captain whose his wife died a few years prior or sometime prior and so he needs a governess to take care of his seven children. And Maria is nervous and apprehensive about taking care of so many children, especially because there have been so many other governesses who quit after a short time. But she sings about having confidence in herself. And then she arrives at the mansion and meets the father, georg von trap everyone's like why do

you look like shit i was like leave her alone she just got here yeah yeah they keep commenting on her ugly dress and it's like leave julie andrews alone but to be fair she also says leave me alone it's my first yes my first day yes she's like excuse y'all you are rich yeah so yeah georg von trapp also the name georg is just it's funny to me he's played by christopher plumber and then we also meet his children who the captain doesn't really allow to be children. He doesn't want them playing or having fun. He treats them like they're in boot camp. There's no affection. It's all discipline. He has a whistle that he blows at them all the time. And all of this is

very appalling to Maria. And she's like, no, no, no, I'm going to have to fix this. The children are Liesel, who is 16, Friedrich, who's 14, Luisa is 13, Kurt is 11, Brigitte is 10, Marta is 7, and Gretel is 5. Some of them have distinct personalities, but there's others that I couldn't really keep track of. They get kind of lost in the shuffle. I like how they all have like they're like i'm incorrigible and then they're like oh so you're classic 10 year olds yeah but he also doesn't know what that means no they don't know they use big words and you're like your father is clearly just making you say these things. Captain Von Trapp has you reading the dictionary. Like,

yeah, he really needs a sense of control. I'm excited to talk about Captain Von Trapp because I feel like the way that he's written at first, he is such a stereotype. But then like, as it bears out, you're like, I don't agree with him,

but I understand more. That's what he does. Yes. So he steps out of the room and then all of the children try to like clown on Maria and they're like bullying her. They put a toad in her pocket. It seems like they want her to fail like the other governesses have failed. But Maria, she gets settled in and then the family sits down for dinner and Maria has a way of making the children feel so guilty about how they treated her earlier and several of them start crying at the dinner table. And then a telegram arrives for the captain from his lady love, Baroness Schrader, inviting him to Vienna.

We will learn that he intends to marry the Baroness soon. Also, the telegram is delivered by this boy named Rolf, who is Liesel's little boyfriend. If there's one person in this world I hate, it's Rolf. Oh, Rolf. That motherfucker. They really didn't meet him in the show, Rolf. That motherfucker. They really didn't need him in the show, to be honest.

No. Yeah. So Liesl goes outside to hang out with Rolf and they sing and dance. And this is when we get the I Am 16 Going On 17 song. I danced to that in ballet class when I was like eight. Wow.

Yeah. I didn't know that it was sung by a Nazi character at the time that's another thing that like because the theme of this movie is so intense but all of the songs I feel like exist in the popular consciousness out of context where you're like oh that's kind of a cute slightly creepy song and then you're like it's in that's kind of a cute, slightly creepy song. And then you're like, it's in context, even wilder. Even worse. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

So then Maria finds out from the housekeeper why Captain Von Trapp treats the children the way that he does. Basically, ever since his wife died, he doesn't want anything in the house that reminds him of her. And that's why there's no like fun or play or music. Then Liesl sneaks back inside from her rendezvous with Rolf via Maria's room. But Maria's like, don't worry, I won't narc on you. And that allows them to kind of like bond a little bit. And then the other kids come into Maria's like, don't worry, I won't narc on you. And that allows them to kind of like bond a little bit. And then the other kids come into Maria's room because they're afraid of the thunderstorm that's happening. And so she sings,

these are a few of my favorite things to distract them and make them feel better. Great song. But then Captain Von Trapp comes in to be like, what's all this joy and merriment that I'm hearing? School of rock vibes. Yeah. Joan Cusack bursting in being like, they're hearing music. What is it? So he again, he's all about discipline. And he wants Maria to find some herself. And she's like, fuck this guy. If I didn't do it for god

like why would i do it yeah why would i do it that was going through maria's head god divorced me i'm like i can do whatever the fuck i want the worst scenario has occurred yeah yeah she's like if i'm not doing it God, I'm definitely not doing it for gay org. Certainly not. Okay, so Captain Von Trapp leaves the following morning to visit the Baroness. And Maria uses that opportunity of his absence to take the children out and encourage them to play. And oh, they're laughing. Oh, they're frolicking. Oh, they're wearing clothes that she made them out of old drapes. And she also teaches them songs to sing, starting with Doe, a deer, a female deer,

Ray, a dragon's golden sun. I started crying so much during that sequence. And I don't know why it's so beautiful like so good really good yeah i wasn't expecting to start weeping but look at god i i also don't know anybody who doesn't know that song right like in the world i've never met somebody whether you like musicals whether you don't wherever you're from like i do i've never met a person who doesn't know that song they might know where it's from but they know that song and so it's just like the test of time truly uh rogers and hammerstein i like they had hits they had hits

i have some notes for them but they had hits sure is that not who did the brandy cinderella they did the music and lyrics for her? Yes. And Julie Andrews played that role on TV originally. That was her first Rodgers and Hammerstein outing. Yes. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Because she started with My Fair Lady.

And that's why Marnie Nixon is important in The Sound of Music. It's because Julie Andrews got snubbed for being in the movie of My Fair Lady. They chose Audrey Hepburn who couldn't sing. And I believe that the story is that Julie Andrews wanted Marnie Nixon to be in the same movie with her to be like, we can both sing. Yeah. That's really cool. I love Julie Andrews. She's such a beautiful soul.

They almost put Audrey Hepburn in this role. At one point, Audrey Hepburn was supposed to be in this role at one point audrey hepburn was supposed to be in this role and they were like what are we doing here thank god she can't sing i love audrey hepburn but like it's not gonna happen yes okay so they're singing about doe a deer female deer and then also during their outings the children reveal the reason that they were so cruel to the other governesses which is that they were trying to get their father's attention because, again, he's not attentiveden, who is scouting a musical group to perform at the Salzburg Folk Festival. So his whole thing is like, I need to find a music group for the festival, and I'm very centrist in my politics i mean school of rock battle the bands boom done there it is there's a big show there's a big show the stakes are high

stakes are high we gotta do it to be fair von trapp stakes significantly higher yeah way higher yeah but same energy okay so this is also the part of the movie where we start getting hints of the sociopolitical climate of the world of this movie. So again, it's the late 1930s Europe. Hitler is rising to power, which Captain Von Trapp opposes. There's also mentions of the Anschluss, which we can talk about in like context corner later on but we get those hints then Maria and the children return from one of their outings on a boat and then they fall into the water

with their clothes on and we're like okay Leonardo DiCaprio vibes yes because he's always in water in his clothes famously always captain von trapp is like what the fuck are you doing with my kids and maria is like you need to let them be children and you need to love them instead of ignore them because all they want is to be loved by you but he refuses to listen to her and he tries to fire her and she's like I already got fired by God so nice try

you're gonna get no worse I do love that she's only sad because she loves the kids she's never like I did a bad job she's just like well fuck you like kids are gonna be miserable best of luck I'm gonna see if I can get back

together with God. Rekindle my romance with God. Try to get another date with God. Okay, so he tries to fire Maria, but then Captain Von Trapp hears his children singing that the hills are alive with the sound of music to Baroness Schrader. And he's like, wow, it's beautiful. And he even joins in singing. And he sings Edelweiss and it's so beautiful.

Yeah, that happens a little bit after. But he's basically like, never mind, Maria, you're unfired. I recognize and appreciate what you've done for my children. He apologizesizes which i was truly shocked yeah yeah a man apologizing in a movie in 1965 hello i didn't know it happened hard to imagine but it does i was like i'm horny for this apology the bar is so low it really is so now that he's like on board with music in the household maria and the children put on a marionette puppet show they're yodeling

high on the hill with the only gold toot looks fun the puppets are scary they are so scary looking but i'm loving every second it was so weird i was like when did that acid trip scene get ruined truly yeah but you know the father is loving it yeah he's into it and And so is Uncle Max. Uncle Max is like, you are the people who I've been looking for this whole time to perform in this upcoming Salzburg Folk Festival. Their father isn't too sure. He doesn't want them singing in public. But then he's like, well, whatever. And then this is where he sings the song Edelweiss.

And then the family throws a party so that Captain Von Trapp can introduce all of his friends to the Baroness. But Von Trapp is kind of paying more attention to Maria than the Baroness. And they each other and Maria is like well I guess it must be true then if you said it in which case it would be inappropriate if I stayed here so Maria packs her bags leaves a note this whole thing I'm like Maria Maria what why Maria why girl yeah weird moment to fold yeah right she's so headstrong right she's so outspoken she's so good about speaking her mind and this time maybe it's because like she's just like damn i am in love with him and i'm supposed to be in love with god or something i believe i'm cheating on god this sucks i gotta get out of here. Yeah. Anyway, so she returns to the convent and the children are very sad that Maria is gone,

especially because she left without saying goodbye and they don't really know why she left. So they go to the convent to try to talk to her. School of rock. But she's in seclusion. She isn't seeing or speaking to anyone right now until Maria does finally open up to the reverend mother about her feelings for captain von trapp so the reverend mother is like

well then you should go back to the von trapp house and follow your dreams and like smooch him if you want and she's like okay follow every rainbow. So Maria does just that. Till you found your dream. And then the crowd is cheering. We're cheering. We're cheering. Yeah. So good.

It's really beautiful. She's so supportive. The nuns, I mean, and then they cut a Nazi's brakes at the end. I'm like, they're just gangster. These ladies rap. Those are like, they're just gangster yeah these ladies right those are like they're gangster yeah truly so maria returns to the von trapp house and they're delighted that she's back and the captain is so happy that she's back that he breaks up with baroness schrader and he goes

to maria to be like by the way i dumped my fiance because I'm in love with you. And then they kiss, cut to them getting married at the convent. And I have also been so conditioned to think that a wedding is how a movie ends, that I thought the movie was over after that. But there's like a half hour left where the children prepare for their performance at the folk festival that night with Uncle Max. And then Nazis come by to be like, why isn't Captain Von Trapp flying the Nazi flag? You know, what's going on with you and your family? And then Liesel's boyfriend, Rolf, who is like a full-blown Nazi now, He delivers a telegram to Captain von Trapp, summoning him to Berlin,

which, as von Trapp says, to refuse would be fatal to the family, to accept would be unthinkable. So they make plans to flee from Austria that night, but Nazis see them trying to escape, so the von Trapps are like, oh no, we're just going to the music festival. So the Nazis follow them there and are like hovering over them as they're performing and stuff.

But they sneak out after their performance. The Nazis continue to pursue them. So the von Trapps hide at the convent. They have a close encounter with Rolf, who tries to rat them out, but they manage to run away and they escape into the hills, which are alive with the sound of music. Boy, are they. The end. You did it.

I did it. So let's take a quick break and we will come back to discuss. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. the situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. And she paid the ultimate price.

Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've been thinking about you. I want you back in my life. It's too late for that. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do.

One session. 24 hours. BPM 110 120 She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that? You didn't figure it out? Twenty. She's terrified. Should we wake her up? Absolutely not. What was that?

You didn't figure it out? I think I need to hear you say it. That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. This machine is approved and everything? You're allowed to be doing this? We passed the review board a year ago. We're not hurting people. There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing.

They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you think of Mexican culture, you think of avocado, mariachi, delicious cuisine, and of course, lucha libre. It doesn't get more Mexican than this. Lucha libre is known globally because it is much more than just a sport and much more than just entertainment. Lucha libre is a type of storytelling. It's a dance.

It's tradition. It's culture. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host, Santos Escobar, the emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar. Join me as we learn more about the history behind this spectacular sport from its inception in the United States to how it became a global symbol of Mexican culture. We'll learn more about some of the most iconic heroes in the ring. This is Lucha Libre Behind the Mask. Listen to Lucha Libre Behind the Mask as part of My Cultura Podcast Network on the iHeart

Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you stream podcasts. And we're back we are back if it's cool i want to start with a little context quarter on who these damn von traps were yes please because they were real i kind of forget that to be honest same so obviously this is like honestly this was more historically accurate than i expected it to be but there are some a couple significant deviations just from their personal histories the most significant of which was that maria was like sort of forced into a marriage with von trapp and she very much wanted to remain a nun. Most of her biography is correct. She was orphaned very young. She moved into a convent and then was sent to be a governess. But I don't know what the age gap between these two actors are. The real life age gap was 25 years. And Georg went

back to Mother Superior and was like, hey, I want to marry Maria because she's great with my kids because she did absolutely love the kids. And the Mother Superior was like, yeah, sure, you can marry her. And Maria's like, well, hold on. I don't want to. And they were like, sorry, you're going to get married to him. So this whole series of adaptations comes from Maria's memoirs. So she is the primary source. So I don't know, as with all memoirs, grain of salt, but this is how she describes their relationship. I really and truly was not in love. I liked him but didn't love him. However, I love the children. So in a way, I really married the children. By and by, I learned to love him more than I have

ever loved before or after but she was like not thrilled about this marriage oh wow and then i think like over time became more okay with it question mark but it was like he was significantly older than her and she was she loved his kids but was not crazy about him anyways so that uh all takes. A lot of the story about, you know, they start singing, they become this family band, they are pressured to join the Nazi party, and then they leave. That's all true. The locations and the timeline is quite different. I think Maria came into their life, like 10 years before any of this happened. Yeah. But I don't think that like the spirit or their decisions weren't changed. Those were the actual decisions that they made,

sort of turned up to a 13 for movie purposes. There were particulars that I didn't, like they were asked to perform at Hitler's birthday party. Oh, yes. I didn't know that. There's some wild stories about them. Like, I think that the movie maybe gives them a little more distance from the center of the Nazi party than was accurate. Thankfully, I mean, they never do it. They do as in the movie,

they flee Austria, not in secret. They are like, hey, we're going to just go be in our family band and not join the Nazi party. But while they were touring, the Nazis would use their house. The proximity was far closer than I think the movie and the show indicates. But the decisions are essentially the same. So right. There's also some characters who are either like completely fictional or fictionalized versions of the real people and then a lot of the events that play out in the movie are quite embellished or heightened for dramatic effect a few examples would be that the family didn't use that folk festival as a means to escape. They were able to take a train to Italy and then go to London and then eventually the U.S. But they made it seem like they had to flee very urgently for dramatic effect in the film adaptation.

The father was not this like aloof patriarch who disapproved of music he was a sweetheart and maria was kind of mean which i thought was fascinating they were like maria had really severe mood swings and like she was not julie andrews she was not Julie Andrews. She was very human. Yeah. And then the children were like their names and their ages in the movie are very different from who those real people were. And they're just kind of like not super based on the real children. Also, there were younger children who were the children of Maria and Georg. There was like 10 of them total in real life.

I think one of them still operate the Trapp Family Lodge in like Stowe, Vermont. Her grandchild runs it because of how young her children were. You know what I mean? Like her grandchild right now is still alive enough to run the Von trap family lodge this

is like i have a whole thing anytime someone is buying like your book or your rights from you chances are you're gonna get fucked over because the von trap family does not actually end up making a lot of money off of the sound of music because maria didn't catch something in the contract basically they didn't get kickback on any of this so that's like why they run the von trapp lodge and like find ways to capitalize on their because this was like one of the most highest grossing movies of all time yes and they got nothing and they weren't consulted they won best picture yep yeah it sucks it's like i feel like that happens every like almost every single time you know the powers that be find a way to to fuck you over for sure and then i guess just to

provide some historical context for the world that this movie takes place in so there's references to the anschluss which was the annexation of the federal state of Austria into the German Reich, which happened on May 13th, 1938. So the idea was that there would be this united Austria and Germany. They would like come together to form a quote unquote greater Germany. The idea of this arose in the 1870s. By the 1920s, the idea of this unification had strong support from both Austria and Germany, particularly to like, people on like the political left as well as the center, but like it was like, kind of a leftist movement for Austrians. But then when Hitler rose to power in Germany, this unification became like a very Nazi, you know, there were all these like Nazi

overtones with it, because Hitler was like, I'm trying to basically incorporate as many like, ethnic Germans who are outside of Germanyany into greater germany so he was trying to like basically make this like super germany country and that's why he was in favor of it and von trapp was very opposed to the nazi party so that's why even though he was like a naval captain and stuff like that he was just just like, I'm out of here. I'm getting my family out of here. And so that's why they like fled and eventually ended up in the US. So that was stuff that I didn't even know about.

So just sharing for anyone who didn't know, I'm by no means a historian, especially when it comes to the history of Austria. But I learned all this stuff and we're sharing it with the listeners in case they needed to know. And it's kind of crazy because where I've actually done a lot of work with them. It's really funny. The German and Austrian left political parties now

and it's crazy to, I've still never been to Austria. And if I go, like I would totally, like I would find the Von Trapp house and cry. And the fountain near Jeremy, like I would just recreate everything by myself with outfits that I make out of my window curtains. You know, I'm like that is my life goal and has been. But it's interesting because like right now in Germany, there is this far right party called the AFD, AFD for short, but you know, AFD, and in Austria, and they keep growing every year. And they're legitimate descendants from Nazi parties,

like folks who have, you know, they've just transformed their names and all that stuff. So it's kind of, it is wild that such a globally popular film, and obviously an era of time that we are always talk about, and it is crucial to history. It's just crazy that the places where this was really birthed or Nazism was birthed and popularized disgustingly. So are seeing a resurgence in this far right as we're speaking, which is totally mind blowing at the moment the last thing i wanted to just include about the historical that's something that because all the biographies of the kids and the ages were sort of skewed as a result to make the storyline work the eldest son at the time they actually fled austria was a doctor who resigned in protest after all of the jewish doctors at his firm were fired and so in the movie because of the Jewish doctors at his firm were fired. And so in the movie, because of the facts that have been changed,

it's made to seem like it was like strictly von Trapp being like, okay, it's time to go. But because the kids were actually working adults or many of them were at the time that they left, it was a very collective effort of like, here's what I'm seeing in my corner of the world and like we can't stay here anymore in general I mean there's a lot that's been changed but I I feel like with adaptations it's like well how's the message and like demonstrative acts of what happened been

changed and here the answer is no I mean there's stuff that's been changed and movie-fied. I think that honestly, the most damning thing that's changed is that Maria didn't want to marry Von Trapp. Yeah. Yeah. But as far as like what their political stances were, by all accounts, it seems like that holds true. Because I'm always nervous in watching stuff like this where it's like, well, actually, no, they got out. But it wasn't for the reasons you would think kind of thing but they they actually they held the line and started a band so great and good for them and then like later in their family history they would send a lot of money back to austria to help you know rebuild and support people so they seemed like real ones shout out to my friend the von trapp family

and i think a lot of them live in pittsburgh now and i love oh wow western pennsylvania represent i live in philly so oh great yes well the characters being very fictionalized and their characterizations being very different from who they actually were as far as like personality goes makes it easier for us. Because anytime we've covered like a biopic, it's always just like, how exactly do we discuss this or at least the characters? Because they're based on real people. But in this case, like, so much is fictionalized as far as the characters' personalities that it makes our discussion a little bit easier, especially considering, like, the reframing of the relationship between Captain Von Trapp and Maria for the sake of the adaptation being reframed

as, like, this whirlwind romance versus, like, a forced marriage kind of thing like essentially yeah so as far as the character of Maria goes I mean it's Julie Andrews so she's just inherently lovable and so sweet and so patient and I don't even know exactly what I want to say about the character, but you know, she like gets the children to be this musical troupe, but a lot of also what she does is that she has to like help a father learn the lesson that he should love his children via music.

Well, I see, I think that's an oversimplification. I mean, for sure, but my thing is like, that is on its face. True. I'm going to come to the captain's defense here because I do feel like within the story

and also like the fact that that is not what happened in real life. She was kind of cranky and he was very affectionate with his kids. But in any case, in the world of this story, i feel like we are shown a very like rigid parent archetype but i feel like over the course of the movie it is teased out why he's behaving that way he doesn't need to be taught to love his children he needs to be taught to navigate his own grief feelings and is that maria's job no no but i also think that that's not her goal either. Her goal is to be a good guardian to this kid. Her goal is to do a good job. Like I thought this kind of averted a lot of the stereotypes that you see in this sort of movie,

because she's just like, I care about the kids. I will openly defy you to take care of the kids. Like your takeaway can be whatever it is. But like, as long as I'm working here, I'm going to act in their best interest. Right. Yeah. And then he gets on board.

Yeah. And I think that the thing that for me that was always trivial about Maria is like she for the whole movie, she's like, I am my independent person. And in the movie, they add the song. I have confidence. It's not in the movie, they add the song, I Have Confidence. It's not in the musical. But the thing that's so funny is that, like,

she doesn't really listen to Georg. She doesn't listen to, sometimes she doesn't listen to Mother Abbas, or sometimes she does. But the person she listens to, they have very little screen time, is the Baroness. And on one hand, like, for the history of movie making, I'm like, you know what?

She's listening to at least a woman and not, like a man or you know all that so on the other hand I'm like why does it have to be a rich woman like why like out of all of the people couldn't they have just made it a different character but I just that's the thing that's most trivial to me it's like out of all people you listen to like that moment just doesn't make sense because of the very few moments they have together and I'm like i'm still like but why like why the meredith's character is all over the place to me i don't quite get her because it's like she kind of rolls in reminding me of like meredith from the parent trap yeah she's like i'm your new blonde mother and like here i am I seem like I might be up to no good but then it turns out and she kind of is up to no good but then at the I don't know she tells this huge lie that I still

don't buy Maria falling for I'm like well you love him so you have to go and get out of my way so she does something like emotionally evil but then she like lets him go so easily she's like all right i guess i know and i've been bested see you later and then she poofs out of the movie and i was like she does do you care about this relationship or not like i don't understand what her end game is it was one of those like you're not firing me i I quit. She quit fired. She quit fired. She quit fired the entire movie and the family. I interpreted that as like,

she wouldn't let her ego be damaged by being broken up with. So she's like, you're actually were never the right man for me. And that's why I'm leaving. And that's why I've decided actually that we're breaking up. I've done that before actually um i this it was my idea it tracks to me with who she's established to be because like sure i think a lesser movie would

have made her just like very one-dimensionally evil a la billy zane in titanic or something like that get your hands off my fiance and she is definitely presented as like an obstacle for maria and she is certainly manipulative in different moments but you also like see her try to make an effort with the children and she does seem to be quite affectionate toward captain von trapp so like she has qualities that to me make her feel like a more well-rounded person not a good person not someone you'd want to hang out with but like someone who has dimension and i was like a little surprised because she's better than you think she's gonna be right even though she does the one evil thing.

She does the evil thing. And I was confused when she was first appearing on screen and she has like a little sidebar with Uncle Max. And I was like, wait a minute. OK, she's like there to try to marry Von Trapp to take his money. But then she's like, but I'm rich and so I don't need I have my own money. And then Max is like, yeah, rich people should marry each other so they can all stay rich together. And poor people can stay poor. I'm like, isn't that what happens already? Yeah, right. I was like, isn't that the whole.

That seems to be the playbook. Isn't that the whole history of the world? Right. So I was confused at first because I was like, oh, she's like scheming to take his money. But then I'm like, no, that's not even what's happening. So she's a little bit she's more nuanced than I would have expected. And, you know, you mentioned Meredith from The Parent Trap, who is like pretty one dimensionally evil. And yeah, this movie like doesn't take that character in that direction. She's like, yeah, she's got a little more nuance to her. And it doesn't seem like the kids hate her. They just don't like her as much as they like maria right yeah which is fine i don't know i think honestly that's a really good point and maybe i'm just more like bugged by i'm like why did maria fall for her trick it's true but that's just a reaction to how much i love maria's character like she is so right it's like effortless the way that like i was reading a couple of essays just about the

character of maria and how like this movie presents becoming like a parent as an active choice and i feel like we're so often told that like yes women are expected to be parents and to be inherently nurturing and be all this stuff which i think there are counter points to in the movie because that's not who the baroness is she's doing her best but like it's not quite clicking maria loves these kids and like is choosing to be there it's not expected of her and she's like making an active effort to want to do that and like her norm is also her active choice which is like she wanted to be a nun but then it's like i just really i like how much space she has within the story and it's still very much of its time like there's only so many she can't become a doctor like you know stuff that are options to many women today aren't available to her but i

really liked that she is so active there's literally a song about how she's confident yes and it doesn't feel like it just feels completely in step with who she is and the fact that she's loved for those qualities is the coolest i just love her and i think it's also just like speaking to like who julie andrews is like if you think about all of the roles she's had like you know mary poppins and my fair lady eliza do a little unbrought you know, in the original, like all of these are for the time period compared to the damsel in the distress ingenues of 50s and 60s musicals. Like they are actually pretty radical for the time where, you know, you compare that with the roles that Shirley MacLaine used to play in Oklahoma or in Carousel and all these Rogers and Hammerstein musicals.

Same things, too. Right. And it just to me, it was just something like and it continued throughout Julie Andrews career. She was Victor Victoria, all of these like she could have been the damsel in distress ingenue. She's got that beautiful face. She's small body, right? Like all of these things that were very popular for that at the time. But she really was like, no, I'm going to play roles that aren't just the traditional, you know, woman in peril at the time.

Yeah. And don't forget her most iconic role of all time, which of course is her voicing the queen in Shrek 2. Oh, yeah. I thought we were going to Princess Diaries. Yes, Princess Diaries, sure.

It's up there. To me, that pales in comparison to the queen, Fiona's mom in Shrek 2 and beyond. It's true. It's the best Shrek. Here's something I wrote down

at 1 a.m. last night. In The Sound of Music, Maria is a Montessori teacher called by God. And in Mary Poppins, Julie Andrews is a Montessori teacher who's also a wizard. Yeah. yeah again they're very similar movies and that julie andrews is summoned to care for children i want to go back to the her being duped basically by the baroness yeah what's going on there please please help me get there i don't know and because this is not at all how it played out in real life for maria it's like obviously this was completely fabricated for the sake of the musical in the movie i can't speak to catholic guilt from experience but part of me is like okay maybe

she thinks like she's a nun she shouldn't have these like sure like this shame romantic feelings for a mortal man and and she probably does actually have those feelings in the context of this movie because she has watched von trapp you know lighten up and be more affectionate toward his children and he's also appreciating her for her efforts. Like he doesn't at first, but he then realizes like, wow, she has done a lot for my family and my children. And he expresses gratitude about that. He apologizes for being shitty earlier. And so I can kind of see why she would maybe develop feelings for him. And then when someone points this out and she realizes like damn maybe she's right but because she has all of this like non-guilt she's like oh my god it is so

inappropriate if i'm here falling in love with this man i should leave so i don't know if that you know i'm sort of projecting maybe i'm on board i'm on board i grew up a catholic and so i can speak for all catholics you can speak better than I can then. Yes. No, that makes sense. I've never thought about it like that. But as soon as you said, I was like, oh, it totally makes sense because like both nuns and also extremely religious Catholics who like maybe have never had a partner in their life because they're saying that their partner is God. Like I know some of them like in my family that were just like I'm never gonna my only partner I need is JOD you know and um and so I do think that that's a real that is a real thing especially at the time period where you don't second guess another woman saying you know

saying that to you as well but I also think that like it's not just like the duped part i think part of it is that like she doesn't want to be in the way of what is best for the children right and she probably just thinks that if there's some mother figure there and baroness is not it's not meredith from parent trap if there's some mother figure there's there's somebody who can take captain von trap out of his like grief then they're fine and she's done her job so that could also be a part of it too like plus the guilt being like you know what all I want to make sure the children are good she's not evil to them she's not mean to them she's not as badass as I am but maybe they'll be straight right and so I think that's also a part of it where it's

like oh yeah wait a second maybe I will make this more complicated. You know what? Like a situation's already messy and you're like, I'm gonna do the Homer Simpson meme. So, yeah, that could be a part of it, too. That makes total sense. OK, wow. I'm glad we're doing this. Guys, I'm glad we're doing this. Right.

Well, especially because I think it's the scene of her like first night in the house and she's praying. And that's when she's like, God bless. What's his name? Which is so funny. Yeah. But she's kind of praying and she's like vocalizing that she realizes her like divine purpose for at least this chunk of time is to prepare the family for their new mother. Because she already knows that the Baroness and Von Trapp are, like, betrothed. So she's like, okay, I'll just, like, be the governess until this, like, mother comes in,

marries into the family, and kind of, like, replaces my role as mother figure. Right. She sees herself as, like, a stopgap, kind of. Yeah. Yeah. But she doesn't expect to fall in love. role as mother figure right she sees herself as like a stop gap kind of yeah yeah yeah but she doesn't expect to fall in love i gotta say i like their relationship it's a relationship that grows and is based on mutual respect it's not perfect there's certainly and i do think that the expectation that he has to be ushered through his own grief there's a gendered way to view that and i also think that that's what a good partner does too so i don't know i'm like it is so hard to get me on

board with like a romantic relationship in an older movie but this is like way better than i expected the exchange with them where she i think is coming from like she's just been let go she's coming from that shame-based place where she's like I'm far too outspoken it's one of my worst faults and he's like no wrong I'm sorry you were doing the right thing right I feel like within the context of the movie like she is challenging his views on like what a woman can do and what someone with less resources with him can do and like he's actually taking the note and being like i'm wrong and like maria is demonstrably like changing my kid's life let's get on board i like it what i'll say about captain

von trapp is like there this, I know a lot of folks talk about or have talked about it being very gendered and stuff. And I kind of look at it, especially because he's in the military is like, he needs something to fight for. He needs something to stay alive for and a lot like a live personality and soul wise. And he not only gets it in the sense of seeing his children alive and seeing them not also acting out in some ways with Maria, but he also gets it because he's fighting against something that he doesn't believe in, which is like Nazi and fascism in that way, right? Like there are subtle hints throughout it. And I think that part of like, I don't think that that was just Maria that did

that for him, right? Or Maria's responsibility. It's like what the movie shows. It's just like the way the musical and the movie are written it's just like he did need something to fight for and that's why when he sings Edelweiss at the end it's just like one of the like I never not cry like there's just like I never ever ever not cry I'm even like now I'm like no no you're not gonna cry you can cry if you want it's okay it's the same place i feel like i cry every episode but it's just like like the journey for him as when you think also about soldiers at that time the historical context of like a lot of these nation states being fairly new because they were like you know there's the austria hungarian um. Like, so all these folks being like, I have a country to believe in. I have a family to believe in.

I have all this stuff to believe in. And, you know, your wife dies and then you're seeing the rise of the Nazi party, but you're trying to ignore it. So I just feel like all of that overwhelming stuff, she was able to kind of be like, wake up. Yeah. Because the world was also happening around her. And I think he saw that as example,

not as like, it's your job to do this, but like, oh, if she can do this, if she can live in this world and look at the bright side, regardless of what's happening. And like, yeah, that's why at the end, it's just like, you know what? Like that's where it gets to me a lot of the times. It's really nice.

I do feel like in Act Two, I feel this way about Act Two of every musical. The ending is tremendous and like amazing. I do feel like Maria's role in the movie is pulled back a little bit after she's married, which I think we see with some frequency. This is like not the worst offender. It's not like she disappears from the plot, but she is less active because the focus, once they're together, the focus shifts to their escape, which is more driven, at least in this story by Captain Von Trapp. So it sort of shifts focus towards the end, which I don't know. I mean, I don't really have a suggestion for how that could have been

rectified but i did i'd never noticed that in previous viewings not the worst offender but it was something i picked up on i feel like you just make a few quick writing slash dialogue changes to make some of the things her idea yes right which was like historically true as like it was more of a collective decision. Right. Right. Like when he gets the telegram and he's like to refuse this would be bad, but also under no circumstances would I ever like return to Germany and be complicit in this Nazi movement. If she's like, OK, well, let's pack up and leave tonight. Like if it's her proposing that and then if it's her, yeah,

there's different things. Like she does jump in when they get caught by the Nazis outside as they're like pushing the car out of the driveway and she chimes in a little bit. But if she was a little bit more active in that conversation, different things like that could have made her more active and just shown that like, oh, she fully understands what's happening and she's going to be a very active participant in this escape.

But yeah, the movie definitely does scale back on her active participation in a way that doesn't make sense because she's the protagonist of the movie. So like, you need to keep her active throughout. Yeah, yeah. I wish there would have been some plotting a little bit. Also, like you could have had some plotting with like the nuns like how they I mean they went back to the abbey but that could have even been explored more too because they came back in a bunch of scenes in act one but then they're really just left at the very end of both the movie and the musical

and it's like the movie is really just like a pinch in the air the musical has it a little bit tossed out more because musicals often do that but I think that they could have even had like Maria plotting with the nuns yeah to do that stuff right like even if that was so completely fictional that still would have made it her character stronger and then the the bond as well of sisterhood literally like the nuns do a badass thing and it's amazing and it's also kind of like people forget that they did that because it wasn't a big thing in the movie right like yeah and so it could have just been more explored so that that scene had more of an impact i think totally and the fact that like the nuns politics are revealed to us but up until that point we're not really given a lot of information of like how

do they feel about the changing landscape around them? That would be like a really that I'm sure the primary resources exist for. That would have been a really fascinating thing to view as well as I think that, yeah, like the movie gets a little bit myopic with like Captain Von Trapp's journey towards the end, especially now having read that like the children were actually mostly adults and were extremely anti-Nazi. Like it would have been I think that Liesel is really kind of our only significant in and like, holy shit, what is going on around me? I refuse to participate, which is done through a romantic relationship I don't know that feels very schmaltzy and but at least you have one of the kids interacting with it but yeah for the most part that whole arc is reserved strictly for von Trapp where I think it would

have been interesting to see yeah I guess which you see more of in Cabaret of like how are individuals processing, ignoring, challenging this fascistic movement that they're surrounded by, you know, can't relate. But yeah, I mean, I think that like it would have been interesting. Liesl is our only in and it's not I don't love that in for us is like, oh, no, my boyfriend is a Nazi. No, I feel like there's a better way to make that same point. And I think it's instructive to watch Liesl, you know, have to have a political awakening as a teenager. That's a very relatable thing. I just didn't love the way that

it was uh done it felt yeah very written by a man way of showing that political awakening yeah yes what i did love though is when not that i love her kissing a nazi boy but after she does kiss ralph toward the beginning she goes that was kind of fun and that is how i react every time i kiss a man also i like i mean i like lisa and maria's relationship too i think it's very sweet i like all the kids i mean mean, the kids, yeah, some of them kind of blend into each other. Yeah. But I like the family. Yeah. Liesl, I wish that there could have been more, not even more real estate in the story dedicated to her, but just like a little more detail and like less focus on the romantic relationship and more like, what are they seeing outside the house? What are they being shielded from? Like,

I'd be really curious to know what various drafts this went through, because obviously it's been significantly changed from the source material because none of it happened that way. But the fact that Rodgers and Hammerstein are two Jewish composers that are adapting, you know, this anti-Nazi story, the screenwriter of this movie was also a jewish writer ernest lehman who wrote so many famous movies he also wrote west side story he was like really good at adapting he did west side story he did this he did who's afraid of virginia wolf one of my favorites so you have like a lot of jewish involved in this production, but not Jewish women, which I feel like you can sort of feel and like stuff like the loose threads, like the Liesel story where they're like, what is a teenage girl going to do?

Date a teenage boy. Done. Where teenage girls are doing so many nefarious things and you don't know unless you've done it it's wild because for who they are it's like on the spectrum of like who was writing musicals in the 1950s and 60s like rogers and hammerstein definitely had for how popular they were also for oscar you know he was on i think mccarthy's list because he was associated with communists and socialists back in the united states back in the days and then he had to like many people be like oh I'm not really with them and figure out ways to support

the movements here in different ways but for those folks like they're always to me they're I'm always like oh I love it I love uh like there's you know what I mean where they're like almost there like Anna and the King and I really interesting story also. Also a true story. You know, or like Anna was a real person, right? And she like landed in Staten Island at some point. All these Staten Island intersections are just my favorite. Madam's webs connects them all. Madam's webs, yes. And so like all of these things, like South Pacific,

like there are these women in these really interesting historical moments that before that time are never really talked about at all right like women were just there to be the wives and so they are a little bit more complex and then also you like it's like one of those things where you're like running running running like yeah keep going and it's like slows down halfway through because they can't go the full way and it's it sucks but i'm also like, eh, it was the time period. Oh, but it sucks. I'm like, do we make modern versions of this or we just leave it alone?

I don't know. I just think about that all the time when I think about the works of Rodgers and Hammerstein. Totally. And then there's certain, I mean, while this is a terrific adaptation, Brandy Cinderella still undefeated best Rodgers and Hammerstein adaptation.

And we're not taking alternate opinions on that but yeah i mean there is no alternate opinion some of their work has aged great and but like a huge chunk of their catalog absolutely hasn't i mean they're still doing revivals of these shows and i know that it's not impossible i didn't see it because i don't live in new york but i know that oklahoma recently had a makeover it was so good right so it's like it is possible but yeah like i don't know the answer to your question of like is it worth it i don't know it seemed like in the case of oklahoma it was but you know there's certain things where it's just so in the dna of the musical that you're like lovely songs but yeah flower drum song like no no no there's

you can't just change like half of the songs being like literally having the words oriental in it and like being about orient and you're just like no there's no no there's no coming back from that also they never even lived in San Francisco so I just like, why are you writing about Chinatown in San Francisco? Leave it alone. Yeah. Yeah. And there's never really been an attempt to make the sound of music again. Is that was this adapted again?

Unless you count School of Rock. I mean, which I am realizing that the Nazis of School of Rock are the rich parents. Oh, well, there you go. I mean, where's the lie? I know. saying that the nazis of school of rock are the rich parents oh well there you go i mean where's the lie i know i know i'm saying it's perfect it's it's one to one we should just call it there that's it then the remake of the sound of music was the school of rock i don't think that they could do it though i feel like it would be too. I mean, they, you know, they tried the stage adaption with Carrie Underwood for the live. Right.

Oh, God. Oof. Tragic. That was really tragic. But there's, like, there's no, I don't think there's ways to do it because it's also so specific. I think Oklahoma is, like, it is specific, but also, like, it's just like Oklahoma's being a new state is kind of in the background. Right. When you could remake it as opposed to like you can't, you know, the Nazi thing is essential to the story.

But also this film is getting banned in schools, like being played in school districts. Which is absurd. I don't know if you'll saw the texas thing is just like people were like we can't show that because they're like we can't talk about nazism in schools but it was like the right wing from a right wing perspective where they basically didn't want people to think that nazism was inherently a bad thing but they knew they couldn't say that and i was just like watching these parents testimony being like what they won't show it and they won't do it as a school play that's fucking terrifying like for all of the like nitpicking that is valid to do for this movie

like its core message is I don't know it's so scary to think like when I know for sure that like a substitute teacher threw this on for us at some point and it was just like the message of it is so indisputable the fact that it's discussed that way now is like well you know it's an older movie maybe their anti-nazi stance wasn't totally spot on it's like terrifying no it's there yeah it's clear in his present. They actually nailed that. Yeah. I mean, and I thought, like, having the Max character

be the way that he was and that he was, like, not unsympathetic to the Nazi party. And then every time he said something like that, Captain Von Trapp would, like, explode in anger to be like don't say that shit like you need to get on the right side of history sir like what the fuck are you talking about yeah because i mean max represents the type of person who was just

super like well it doesn't affect me so i don't really care and I'm you know like just people who are complicit when awful things are happening and I appreciated that he was presented that way and that you had Von Trapp openly challenging him on a pretty regular basis throughout the movie yeah covering this really makes me want to an episode on Cabaret would be unbelievably messy because it is a very messy movie but i feel like this movie shows most characters reacting in the best case scenario and they found the right story of like a family that extracts itself from complicity and something awful and also like this family is privileged and, you know, has the resources and ability to escape with relative ease in comparison to other people faced with the same circumstances. And that's sort of more what Cabaret is doing of like, well, what does a poor person and like working class people caught in this mire that don't have the resources of the von Trapps to extract themselves?

How do you resist and like how do you resist? And like, how do you navigate that? And there's like a whole gradient in Cabaret of people reacting with complicity. And what happens when you resist with less resources, which is just unfortunately, like the kind of stories and like challenges that we should be revisiting right now, like it's because of just what tremendous complicity, you know, you can be asked to have on a daily basis. And when it happens on a long enough timeline, your brain starts to numb to it and you can't let that happen. I don't know. I just yeah, it would be a very long double feature and actually quite depressing but yeah it is interesting seeing these musicals kind of in conversation with each other however intentionally about just like watching the slow encroaching fishistic movement and having to

make the choice of like what are you going to do? Yeah. Yeah. And then you can have, watch the producers for dessert. Springtime for dessert. Sorry. The last thing I wanted to talk about is something we briefly touched on, but Maria, when she says something like, I'm too outspoken and it's one of my worst qualities. I appreciate that that is framed in such a way where like we realize that she's wrong because every time she is outspoken, we're like rooting for her and we agree with her and she's correct every time she's challenging

Daddy Von Trapp. But you understand why she thinks that's a bad quality because women were conditioned and have always been conditioned to think that if they are outspoken, if they are headstrong, if they do challenge authority or challenge anything that's the status quo, that they shouldn't be doing that. They should keep their mouth shut and, you know, stay in their place, stay in their lane, blah, blah, blah. So I appreciate that she would have felt that was a bad quality to be outspoken, but that the movie frames her being outspoken as a positive trait

that I think is the reason that Von Trapp's arc manifests the way that it does, because if she hadn't been outspoken, based on all of the other governesses that we understood to have been there and clearly didn't do anything to challenge his, like, parenting and his inability to process his grief and be affectionate toward his children and stuff like that, you would imagine that that family

would have just stayed that way, that he would have been this weird disciplined daddy and that the children would be miserable because of it disciplined dad i feel like that's a quote from arrested development very arrested development just like a throwaway joke but i pulled it from somewhere and i think it was that or i pulled it from my brain. Who can say? Who me? Oh, I'm just a disciplined daddy. Dungeon talk. Dungeon talk. Definitely dungeon talk. So Maria, being a part of this family and being so outspoken and challenging his authority and his bad parenting is obviously like what changes the dynamic of the family. So I just appreciate that about the movie The End.

Yeah. Noemi, is there anything else you wanted to to touch on i mean i feel like no my most unpopular opinion is probably about this is that like i kind of love the youngest children brigitte and marta and like those are my favorite of all the children they're just adorable and they're kind of just like living in this world where they're like, I feel like the youngest three are just like, we actually don't know what's going on. But we're cute AF. And we're just going to say the most cutest things. And then we're also going to like, so long farewell.

The youngest ones hit it at the park with that. Like, come on. Come on. So I just I'm like not a big fan of Liesl or I don't even actually remember the oldest. I just remember the youngest names. I'm like not a big fan of Liesl or I don't even actually remember the oldest. I just remember the youngest names. I'm like, So that's my, that's my hot take. Yeah.

I'm on board. I'm on board. This movie does pass the Bechdel test. Way more than you would guess. Yeah. The whole song, How Do You Solve a Problem Like Maria passes the Bechdel test.

It's just nuns being like, why is our coworker so awesome, but hard to pin down? We love her. Like moonbeam, cloud. All these gorgeous genderless compliments. Yes. Von Trapp is very often the subject of discussion.

However, there's conversations between Maria and the Baroness, Maria and Liesel, likeia and liesl like maria and other kids that passes between the sisters i mean there's a whole and also oh uh character we haven't shouted out yet the housekeeper for the von traps frau schmidt who i was fantasizing that at one point she'd be like please call me schmitty i think it's hilarious if a if a housekeeper was like i'm schmitty my friends call me schmitty sch think it's hilarious if a if a housekeeper was like i'm schmitty my friends call me schmitty schmitty i like frosh bit because she ultimately at the end of the day

she just wants to talk shit like she wants to gossip and she wants to talk shit and i was like that is like that's what you do at work where she's like oh new girl here here's why everyone fucking sucks i was like yeah that's what i do at new jobs so they talk shit sometimes it's about men sometimes it's not yeah this movie has i think for especially for its time like a really impressive interest in what the women think yes could have been more i again would love to have seen more about the political journey outside of this very wealthy family. But given what

we have, I mean I still think it's very impressive. Now to rate it on our nipple scale. Our scale where we rate the movie 0 to 5 nipples based on examining the movie through an intersectional feminist lens. I don't know, maybe like three and a half nipples. I think the movie has a lot

going for it. As we discussed, I wish it allowed Maria to be more active in that last 30 minutes or so when they're escaping. I mean, the movie completely rewriting the narrative of how that marriage went as far as like, no, it was a mutually loving thing where they fell in love with each other and not a man forcing a nun to marry him. Right. Because she was she was a good mommy. Yeah. It wasn't even clear. Like if he had extremely romantic feelings for her, if he's like, this makes sense. Yeah.

Right. If it was just like a practical, like I need a woman to take care of my children because I don't know how to do that. Hard to say. But also he was a good dad. It's weird. Yeah. Right.

Like he raised children to be doctors. It's like to like, you know, like good conscience. Right. He raised anti-nazi doctors and that's it's pretty good that's pretty solid like i i will hand it's pretty solid but yeah definitely an oversimplification of yeah whatever that relationship dynamic was so actually now that i about it, I might bring it down to like three or maybe two and a half nipples based on that. Like, because that's such a movie like way because movies are obsessed with like, let's

throw in a love story that usually doesn't need to be there or is a complete rewriting of history. And musicals are worse than it. Yeah, right. So the more i think about it the more it really grosses me out but the character of maria herself is like very enjoyable and i i like the way that she's characterized i do wish there was more of her maybe just bonding with the children and we like some of those children because i I kept mixing up like, who is Louisa even?

What does she do? Like, I guess she's like kind of the she's like a little stinker, but a lot of the kids are little stinkers. So like I couldn't differentiate her from some of those other kids. Brigitte I was struggling with. The young one was easy because she's like visibly the smallest and the youngest and they give her some like cute things to do. But I don't know, maybe I just wish that some of the some of the girls were a little bit more characterized but overall I like Julie Andrews so at the end of the day team Julie Andrews always I think I'll give the movie three nipples I'm not sure if that's being generous or not or not generous enough who's to say my brain doesn't really work anymore but I'll give the movie three nipples. I'm not sure if that's being generous or not, or not generous enough. Who's to say? My brain doesn't really work anymore.

But I'll give the movie three nipples. One will go to Julie Andrews, and once again, just shout out to Shrek 2 and her monumental role in that. Her most iconic performance. And that, of course, leads to a little plug for our Shrektanic

tour that's happening in May. So go to our link tree for the tickets to Shrektanik. I'll give one nipple to Liesl saying, wee, after a kiss. And I'll give a final nipple to the nuns who broke the Nazis' cars. Oh, unbelievable. Yeah.

I'm going to go three and a half, I think. I'm tempted to go a little higher. I mean, I feel like for its time, this is an anti-Nazi story that was a gigantic hit that was helmed mainly by Jewish writers and composers. I feel like the political elements of this story have aged very well. Like we were talking about before, there's a ton of encroaching fascistic political movements to resist, preferably while singing beautiful music.

So I think that the core message of the movie is still, I mean, still very, very fresh. Maria, I feel like, yeah, we do have a little bit of a situation where there's a lot of women in this movie. We know a little bit about all of them. It's the Maria show, but we kind of pull back from her a little bit at the end. I just wish we knew more about the other women in this world. Everyone has moments.

Everyone has distinct personalities, except for some of the kids, which is like I'm more kind of fine with. But I could have used a shift on the Liesel story. I also think we'd be curious, like we see Captain Von Trapp navigating grief and we don't really get the same perspective with the kids. And true. Yeah, I don't know. I just think that there is an unusual amount of space given to women acting independently. It's like there's whole songs about it and it's celebrated. And I think it's great.

I'm going to give it three and a half nipples. I could give one to Julie Andrews. I'm going to give one to Julie Andrews as the queen of Genovia. I'm going to give. And the Queen of Far, Far Away. That's my third one. When hasn't she been a queen or a caretaker of children? Yes. And of course, I'm giving the rest of my nipples

to the nuns that cut the brakes of the Nazis. Nalini? I would probably rate it a, probably a four nipples, mostly because, I mean, you said a lot of it where it's like just like the the film of its time and also i feel like the song like songs are also a musical so like evolving around a man or a woman being in love or not and like she doesn't actually sing that much about being in love no that's true kind of all. Like, I don't think at all. I'm going up to four, too. The lonely goat herd lay in lay.

Like, she's singing about goats before she's singing about goat herders before she's singing about love. And, like, that's unprecedented for, like, a musical of its time, right? Like, with the love story that they have, they could have berated us with. It's true. I don't even want to think about it like i don't want to even think about it okay i'm going up to four you've convinced me and obviously to julie andrews to the queen of genovia and i'm gonna give one nipple to brigitte too hell yeah i have a soft spot in my heart for the little ones yeah nalini thank you so much for joining us today this

was such a fun conversation yes and thank you for your service in the sound of music itself yes wish we could have seen it thank you it was a sight to see me in a habit i'll say that um i can't even imagine a lot of people though when i was walking down the hallways of this high school were like, oh, are you in Sister Act? Just because I was black and I was like, oh, here we go. But it was it was still amazing. And thanks, y'all, for having me. Of course. Where can we find you online? Where can we find your work?

Yes, you can find me on Instagram at Nell Stamp, as well as you can find Working Families Party at Working Families on all social media. Or you can text to get involved and find out more. You can text WFP the letters to 30403 if you want to get involved with our work in China fight modern fascism. Yeah. yeah you can find us on all the regular places Instagram Twitter increasingly rarely you can sign up for our Patreon

aka Matreon where for five dollars a month you can get two bonus episodes and access to the full 150 plus back catalog episodes wowie wow you can also get our merch which is all designed by a one jamie loftus that's at tpublic.com slash the bechtel cast and you can go to our link tree where there are the tickets to our Shrek-tanic tour. There is our letterboxd.

There is our Patreon link, all that good stuff. And with that, should we go to the hills, which are alive with the sound of music? Let's do it. Bye. Bye. The Bechdelcast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Durante and Jamie Loftus,

produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mo Laborde. Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan, with vocals by Catherine Voskrosensky. Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftus, and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.com. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist

who on October 16, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Kay hasn't heard from her sister in seven years. I have a proposal for you. Come up here and document my project. All you need to do is record everything like you always do. What was that?

That was live audio of a woman's nightmare. Can Kay trust her sister, or is history repeating itself? There's nothing dangerous about what you're doing. They're just dreams. Dream Sequence is a new horror thriller from Blumhouse Television, iHeartRadio, and Realm. Listen to Dream Sequence on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart Podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. We'll see you next time.