The Daily Show: Ears Edition - Jeremy O. Harris Promotes “Theatre Supremacy”

Episode Date: July 6, 2024

Jordan Klepper chats with playwright Jeremy O. Harris about his directorial debut with the HBO documentary, “Slave Play. Not a Movie. A Play,” and the importance of preserving the art of live theater. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, the weekly show. It's going to be coming out every Thursday. So exciting. You'll be saying to yourself, TGID. Thank God it's Thursday. We're going to be talking about all the things that hopefully obsess you in the same way that they obsess me. The election. Economics. Earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. And I know that I listed that fourth, but in importance it's probably second. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday?

I mean, talk about innovative. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast. You're listening to Comedy Central. Hey, it's Michael Costa. The Daily Show is taking a break this week, but we put together some special highlight episodes just for you. We'll be back with brand new episodes of the Daily Show next week.

In the meantime, enjoy this episode. Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is the playwright of the critically acclaimed slave play and making its directorial debut with the new HBO documentary, Slave Play. Not a movie, a play. Please welcome Jeremy O'Harris. First off, congratulations on your directorial debut. Thank you. I saw it last night.

It's fantastic for, now it's a movie based on a play. the slave play, for folks who didn't know, slave play, 12 Tony nominations. In a nutshell, what is slave play for people who didn't, weren't cool enough like myself to go see it? You know, I say this in the dock and I'm gonna keep saying it to the day I die I don't tell people what slave plays about I know I know I'm listen it's more fun if you don't know if you're going a little confused but you can also just go to Wikipedia people in Twitter just post the article I was in New York I was in New York when to the New York I to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the to the the to the to to the the the to to to to the to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the toe. told. told. I told. I told. I told. I the the the just before the pandemic. When it moved to Broadway and it was it was all the talk. Nobody would tell you what it was about but people were angry.

People were like it was great but it was something that I think you found unity and that you pissed off people of all races. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah I'm a Gemini so I'm an equal opportunity offender. People are like, f'l l'e'a'fee people like. People are like, people like, people like, people are like, people are like, people are like, people are like, like, like, people are like, like, like, like, people are like, like, like, like, like, people are like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, people are like, people are like, people are like, people like, people are like, people like, people like, people like, people are like, people like, f. People that, people like, people like, people like, people like, people like, people like, people like, people the hell you want. Yes. Great. Right? So you do slave play, right? But then you make a documentary about slave play. Why make a documentary and one night write a book? Were you afraid Florida would ban it? Oh yes, absolutely. I was afraid my home state Virginia would ban it. I mean like who knows? Most of the places the banning the books. But no I didn't I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the the the the the the the th. th. th. the th. th. th. the the. the to. the to. to. the the the the the the the the the the. the.the books. But no, I didn't want to make a documentary to begin with. I didn't. No, I literally, the title of the movie

come from an email I sent to a very big movie studio. Not gonna say which one, you can guess. You can guess. Can I guess? try? No, but they're like, we want to make slave play into a movie. And another one was like, we want to make slave play into a TV show. And I said, slave play is not a movie, period. It is a play, period, and sent it. And then when HBO, look, so here's the nitty gritty, in, in 2020, our play left the golden theater because it was gonna close,

because another show was coming in. We couldn't be in that theater anymore. And then someone was like, hey, another played this on Broadway right now is going to close early. So you can take that theater. And we were like, yes. You can sign the papers. March 14,000. And I was like, great, I just signed to deal with HBO. HBO does documentaries.

My friend filmed the last day, my friend was a very famous documentarian. He had filmed our last performance. I was like, what if the documentary is like, they're closing. Oh, it's so sad. Oh, it's so sad. So I was I was gonna do this little hat trick documentary and I signed the papers and they gave us some money and then March 15th happened and I was stuck in a home in I was stuck in a place in Finsbury Park in London I was I was like I had a

to coven the today I was in a today. That's lovely I'm very British of you guys I only did it because I didn't want to be in an alien environment I don't want to to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see like like like like like like like like like to see to see to see like to see like to see like to see like to see like to see like to see like to see like to see like to see like the to see like to see like to see like to see like to see like to see to see to see to to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see to see the the the to see the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the would actually mean I was in a horror movie. If you don't see those weird little upside down buses, like, on the street, you don't know that it's, that it shouldn't be there, you know? Wait, do you think double-decker buses are upside down? They look a little upside down. I feel like it, liketoxic tubic. You are full of shit. Anyway, so then 2021 comes around, HBO calls and they're like, hey, we wrote a check for your, for you to write this documentary. You cash the money during 2020.

Where's the doc? And I was like, oh, yeah, got it. I'm supposed to make a doc. And the doc is just, it is just, th. th. th. th. the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to, to, to, thi. thi. to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to. to, to. to, to, to. to, to. So, to, to, to. So, to, to, to. So, to. So, to, to. So, to. So, to................................................................................................................. supposed to make a doc. And so then the next, the last three years, I've been learning how to make a movie by making this doc. And the doc is just, it is just theater supremacy. Like I end, I say it's not a movie, it's a play. And the whole, spoiler alert for my movie, guys, the end of the movie basically art form is new and one art form is old. We've only been making movies since the beginning of the 20th century.

They're already trying to take that away from us. They're trying to get computers to make them now. So I'm like, they're not going to get computers to make plays. People barely see them. No one wants to pay, this is a lot. But I, um, I'm producing a player right now. Um, it's called Invasive Species. It's at the Vineyard Theater, and, um, I want to give you this hat.

I'm a merch. I'm gonna, murch. Murch, theymea. Murch, theyre, theyrown, th, the, the, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, and, and, and, and, the, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, the, and, the, and, and, and I'm the, the, the, the, the, and, the, the, and, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the the, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the, the, the why you love theater, right? And I will say we talked a little bit backstage and it is true I went to go see Slayplay with my wife and a friend and we left Slayplay and we were like we need to go talk about this. And you don't get that with a lot of a lot of experiences right. We really make space to actually try to parse something and try to find where the meaning is, what it meant to us. And I think sleigh play was one that pushed a lot of buttons but started a lot of conversations. Like, yes, you are a theater supremacist.

But you are- It's the only supremacist you can be. It's a good one, right? Yeah, if you're gonna pick one. But how do you still use the medium of film to start those conversations? Well, I mean I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I the the the the th, I the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thus, thus, the, thus, thi, the the, the, the, th, th, th, th, the, the, yes, yes, the, yes, the, yes, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th, th, th, the th, th, th, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, theat, theat, theat, theat, that, theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, the, the I think that like one of the things that I grew up on was like this sort of theatrical ephemera that like sort of created a generation of people who like theater. I mean, the people who are watching the plays on Broadway right now are all a golden generation of people who are the same age as every congressman and senator, meaning that, meaning that they're not long for this earth. And they're not long, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the, their, the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the their, the the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the theat. the seeing, when they were seeing plays, they were also going home and watching television shows or hearing radio plays on the thing, and theater was everywhere around them.

We had, you know, we had a taste of it was like inside the actress studio or like those amazing like Udahogging videos of her like talking to weird actors and smoking in the room. where you saw like, you know, all of these amazing, you know, phenomenal actors struggling and failing in front of you to make the company soundtrack. Company was a failure on Broadway, but they made a documentary about it when it came out. Because people cared about the ephemeral of theater.

What happened when live people got together and did a thing. Right. And now the only time we do that we care, thank you. I appreciate it. But I think that like as a culture, we should care about the live theatrical experience outside of just S&L, The Daily Show, you know, Mad TV when it was here. You know, we should care about, we should care about the people in Oklahoma who like are gathering around to tell the story of Black Wall Street in a play in the middle tola because that that that that that that that that that that that th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. th. th the the the the the th. the the the the the th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th th. th the the the the the the the the. the the the the the the. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. thea thea thea thea thea thea thea thea thea thea theateat theat thea. thea. thetell the story of Black Wall Street in a play in the middle of Tulsa because that play it might seem small, it's not as big as a movie, it won't be seen by 200 million people but the 200 people a night that see that play will leave talking about it. Even if they're talking about how much they hated it. What do you think that is though? I mean, I totally agree with you but do that is because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because because that is because, I is because, because, I is because, because, thii, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi thi thi thi thi thi thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi. thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. thi. thi, together, which we also get in movie theaters and people still talk about how horror films do so well because you have

this shared fear in a space, some comedy films do well in that sense. Or is it the fact that film has gotten so good at replicating reality or taking us to feats of fantasy and that theater still lives space for imagination, that we can't fill in the gaps? Like, where do you see the special sauce in that? I think that like, so there are definitely filmmakers and films that like don't ask you to have a passive imagination. A lot of films do though. Yeah.

I think a film? A movie that like, you're in that movie and he's holding on to you tight. And he's like, you better watch and make sense of all this. And fill in the blanks yourself, right? Because there's a lot on the corners you had to fill in. Most movies don't give you that space. They don't trust their audience enough. Plays have to to to to to to to to to, by, by, by, by, by, by, by, by, by, by, by the their, by their, by their, and you, and you, and you, and you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you're their, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you.......... And, you, you, you, you, you... And, you, you, you, you. And, you, you, you the the the the the the the the their their their they... their they.. the the the the the the they. the the they. the they. their their their to Mars, you'll believe it, whether there's special effects doing it or not, because I've just told you, I'm going to Mars, and you have to buy it. Because that's like the contract you signed and you're going to the theater.

Again, that's why a lot of people don't like it. It can be bad. Like, see, see, the audience and we all have to agree on the inherent silliness of believing something. Yes, right? And but that conversation, that belief inside of a micro community, right? It's so necessary for the for political change in my opinion because I think that when you when you when you've when you've worked really hard to see the same thing with a bunch of people around you when you leave you want to engage with them to talk about how the ideas inside of the thing you just saw or whatever can be tangibly made manifest in reality and not just in this fantasy you've engaged.

Do you see that, do you see that as possible in film or wider art forms that wider art forms that can reach more people? Is somebody dropping the ball on that? Are we not engaging the ability to use some of these other art forms to have wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider art forms, wider, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider, wider, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art art forms, wider art art art art forms, wider, wider art art art art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art art art art art art art art art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider art forms, wider, wider art forms, wider, wider art, wider, wider art, wider, wider art, wider, wider, wider art, wider art, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, wider art, thi, that? Like, are we not engaging the ability to use some of these other art forms to have these conversations to enact more political today? I think people are doing it all over. I mean, like, there's amazing painters, amazing performance artists, amazing musicians, who are gathering, like,

Mustafa the poet just made this amazing song that just came out the other day. is galvanizing an entire community of people around like thinking about Gaza in a different way on a musical level, right? I think that like one of the things that, one of the things I don't want us to lose though is like in our, in the ease of Netflix and Max and whatever channel you're watching this on, I don't know, you might be streaming it, or stealing it,

or streaming it stealing, whatever, whatever. Streaming, streaming it. Or you're watching it, linear, common central, thank you very much. But no matter how you might have gotten this, I don't want the other tools in our toolbox as a society to get lost along the way, because this is easier. Right? Going to a theater is hard. Getting 40 people together to make a thing happen every night for weeks is difficult, you know? And yet, it's a necessity because I think it helps us see, it helps us see an imagine in a different way. In the same way that a painting helps you see and imagine a different way than a novel. The same way that like a novel helps you see and imagine a different way than a poem.

And what a poem can do in 40 words is like so delicious, you don't want that to fall away just because like, I don't know, we can tweet now. Right. I mean, which is still pretty fun. And it's so fun. Hey, everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about the weekly show coming out every Thursday. We're going to be talk tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha tha the tha the tha tha the the than than their than their than than their tho their tho tho tho thi. to be the. tho. tho. to be every Thursday. We're going to be talking about the election, earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're going to be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches.

I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart wherever you get your podcast TV now man, buckle up. I did give you the hat, so I think you did give me the hat. So you gotta give me the drama. So you gotta give me the drama. Well, you do something called blackout dates, right? And I'll let you expo, what is it, what is a blackout date? So, okay, I've done, okay, London. Hi, London. Hi, London. I am so so sorry that my BBC interview about a thing

I had done in London a year prior caused so much ire this time. I don't know why. I didn't do it to cause any ire. But I do think that both in America and in the UK, thinking about the architecture of who's in your audience, the audience, and in, and in, the audience, and in, and in, the audience, and in, and in, the audience, and in, the the the the their, their, their, their, their, their, and in, their, their, their, thi, their, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, thi, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, the architecture of who's in your audience matters, right? Having an audience of people, like, this is what comedians do every time. They have someone come on and warm up the audience and they warm them up specifically, right? Like if you're gonna do like an audience of like college broes, you better arm whoever's going out there to know what kind of humor gets them going, right? Yes. I think that we have to to think about the architecture the architecture the architecture the architecture the architecture the architecture theto think about the architecture of the audiences that we've invited into a play. My play, London, is a really intense play about race, trauma, colonization, etc. And because of that, when you are a black person or a brown person in that audience, it can feel complex

to sit next to a white person. Now that complexity was a part of the play. I wanted that. I love a mixed audience. That's how I grew up. That's how the play is a mixed play. Yet, I had an audience member ask me, what would this feel like to see the show with only black people? Can you give me that? And I said, why not?

It'll only be one or two nights. So we did two nights where it was where it people. Now, you could come if you wanted. Tanya Pinkins brought a white friend. She was like, I wanted to know what it's like when I go see a checkoff play. And I was like, that's great. But it was mainly black people. It was Kiki Palmer was there. It was like, you know, my, the kid from NYU the night before being like,

me and all the black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black black the black student union want to come. And it was the first time that I saw my play and everyone everyone in the audience laughed when I was writing it which was crazy because when you see my play yeah yeah and I think there's a lot a lot of times the white people are nervous about when they're laughing and when black people are nervous when they're laughing and no one wants to give the other people permission to laugh. Because like, you see someone laugh, you're like, what's you laughing? And then you laugh, and they're like, well, why are they laughing? And it's like become this whole thing. You see the races, the, that was a little,

the racial voice play I did there. But, but, um, but thanks, guys, this is something that there is a play that's happening on stage. But what is also compelling in this experience is the tension that we're experiencing in the theater. And if we're given this space to articulate that and think through what we are feeling based on what we're seeing other people react to, that and of itself is a separate performance.

And you're t up with the play. Why did you tell London that? Well, I, because I didn't, you did it, you did it so well. But no, but at Yale, when I did the display at Yale, which was like a part of the thing, I don't, I should have put this in the movie. Yeah. You know what? I wanted the movie to, I was the woke class at Yale. Like, the class where they told us, this is the most diverse we've ever had a student body at Yale. They're like, for the first time ever, yeah, there's a same number of men and women

in the class of actors who were like, what? They were like, what? In 2016? They're like, absolutely. And no Shakespeare teachers, they were great, they were trying, they were trying, whatever. Anyway, we had a lot of people of color and women for the first time in our class. Again, for years, no acting conservatory in the country had as many women as men. You know why? Not as many roles for women. They're like, what are we writers to write more roles for women by just having an influx of them?

Yep. They just said, we need less. So we need less. We'll have three sisters. So what are we going to their sister? We only have three sisters. So anyway, um. It's Uncle Vanya. It's not Aunt Vanya. than. toe. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thin. thin. th. thin. thin. thi. they. thi. We just just just thin. We just th. We just just th. We just just just just just just just th. We just just just just just just. We just. We just. We just. We just. We just. We just. I. I. I............................................................................ It's. It's. It's the thea. It's just. the th. th. th. to. the the th. the the the the the the the the the the they. the thethings and interesting things while going to Yale is that you're in a community. You're in a full town called New Haven,

where there are people who saw Lepeda Nianga do her first play at Yale. So not only are you watching people, like not only are people who are watching all the students' plays, the student body. It's also a bunch of like older, that's ever been at Yale, watching the plays too. And my play was in a three-quarter thrust. And when Slave Play started, because it was so small, you could see everyone seeing everything. So imagine seeing like 30 young black brown kids right here.

And then right across the road, also lit by the lights, like 50 older white people, just like looking. And like, and the laughs are like, ha ha ha. And then everyone gets really gets th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, the th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is thi, thi, thi, that, that that that that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's theea, thi the is thi, thi, thi, like, and the laughs are like, ha ha ha ha, ha, ha, ha, and then everyone gets really nervous and scared and then people felt implicated because they were like, why are they looking at me so much? They're looking at me so much. It's like, they're looking at me so much. they're looking at the play, but when we were doing the workshop was like we can't afford the round. But Clint, Ramos, and Robert O'Hara, my director, and my director is Robert,

Clint is the set designer, we're like, we got this. Put those mirrors back there. The mirrors behind it all. And the entire show, you got to watch people, and the entire show you watch the play. And that becomes the play for me, the play, it's like, the the the, the, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, like, and, and, and, and, and, like, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, and, the, and, and, and, the, and, the, and, and, the, and, and, and, the, the, and, the, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the...... the. the. the. the. the. the.. the.. the. the. the.. the.. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. the. for other people yet. Like the first time you see it, you'll be squirming. You won't like it. It'll be like, oh, I don't know, I feel about this. But then the second time you come, the third time you come, you get to watch everyone else. You're like, I know, the second time you're the secret. And you don't know, and for a narcissist it's great. to, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, it's great, the the the their, and I th. And for, and for, and for, and for, and for, and for their, and for, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll th. And, I th. And, I their, I their, I their. And, I's. And, I's, I's. And, I. th. th. th. th. th. their, I. their, I. their, I. their, I, I, I. the, I, I's, I, I's, I's, I's, I's, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the See, these are the types of conversations we should be having. The documentary Slave Play, Not a Movie.

A Play will debut June 20th, HBO and available to stream on Max. Also, go see Invasive Species. This is Jeremy O'Harais. Explore more shows from the Daily Show, thethe Daily Show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount Plus. Paramount Podcasts. Hey everybody, John Stewart here. I am here to tell you about my new podcast, Weekly Show, it's going to be coming out every Thursday. So exciting, you'll be saying to yourself, TGID, thank God it's Thursday. We're going to be talking about all the things

that hopefully obsess you in the same way that they obsess me, the election, economics, earnings calls. What are they talking about on these earnings calls? We're gonna be talking about ingredient to bread ratio on sandwiches. And I know that I listed that fourth, but in importance, it's probably second. I know you have a lot of options as far as podcasts go, but how many of them come out on Thursday? I mean, talk about innovative. Listen to the weekly show with John Stewart, wherever you get your podcast.