The Extras - Talking with Actor Jim Beaver

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

Actor Jim Beaver joins the podcast to commemorate the two-year anniversary of the finale of the hit TV series Supernatural.  We also discuss his work on the HBO series "Deadwood" and the current Prime Video series "The Boys" from creator Eric Kripke (also creator of Supernatural).  And we finish up our discussion with Jim's work with GUILLERMO DEL TORO on the films "Crimson Peak" (2015) and "Nightmare Alley." (2020)Purchase:Supernatural: The Complete Series Blu-rayNightmare Alley 4KCrimson Peak Blu-rayDeadwood Complete Series Blu-rayThe Sitcom StudyWelcome to the Sitcom Study, where we contemplate the TV shows we grew up with and...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, I'm film historian and author John Fricke. I've written books about Judy Garland and the Wizard of Oz movie, and you're listening to The Extras. Hello and welcome to The Extras, where we take you behind the scenes of your favorite TV shows, movies, and animation, and their release on digital, DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K, or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim Millard, your host. Today, actor Jim Beaver joins the podcast to talk about his work on the TV show Supernatural

as we celebrate the two-year anniversary of the conclusion of that epic series. We also discuss his work on Eric Kripke's current show on Prime Video, The Boys, which is a reunion for many former cast and crew from Supernatural. And we talk about his film work with Guillermo del Toro on the films Crimson Peak and Nightmare Alley. So, Jim, thanks for coming on the show. Welcome to The Extras Podcast. Oh, it's my pleasure to be here, Tim. Very happy.

Well, I was doing some digging for our discussion and I, I remember the audio commentary that we did when I was working there, Warner home video, and we were putting the extras together for the show supernatural. And I was looking and it was all the way back in 2012, when we did that audio commentary with you and Steven Williams, who played Rufus, that was for a season seven and the episode Death's Door. And that was a lot of fun. Do you recall that at all? Yeah, I do remember.

My memory's not always that great, but I do remember that day. Well, I remember most days that I spend around Stephen Williams because he's a memorable fella. We had a good time on that. And I think probably people who listen to it picked up on the notion that there are certain similarities between myself and Stephen and the characters we played on Supernatural. So there's a lot of ban banter right we say yeah and uh a certain amount of ragging and uh i just adore steven he's he's such a grand fella and uh we've had a lot of fun together well i was um kind of just checking the audio commentary out again and listening to it and

it's uh it's a lot of fun. There's a lot of fun moments, but I had kind of forgotten just how important of an episode that was to the character of Bobby Singer. Cause the character is deep in a coma and starts to kind of basically relive profound moments of, uh, of his life, I guess it is. And for the first time in the show, I think you see your mother, your father, we see your wife and people who were mentioned, you know, in the seasons, but don't really show up until that show. So that was really cool. Yeah, that was it was a difficult episode in that it was a major turning point on the show for me in terms of how much I would be involved with the show. But it was also one of the most dramatic

and dramatically challenging things I'd had a chance to do, both on the show and otherwise. I think it's a really powerful episode and just beautifully written. And the experience was pretty wonderful. Yeah. And I experience was pretty wonderful. Yeah.

And I think fans of the show really, really liked that episode, even though it kind of meant that I wasn't going to be around much for a while. Of course, maybe that's why they liked it. Well, I remember when I saw that episode and I saw the trajectory of, you know, the character. I was pretty, I was pretty shocked, actually, because. I was too. It felt like it was, I mean, obviously it was Jared and Jensen, you know, it was their show. But your character, Bobby Singer, was really the next most important character.

Well, it certainly was the way I looked at it. Misha Collins might have looked at that differently than Mark Shatner. From my perspective, even Jared and Jensen were kind of second or third place. You know, that character filled a slot that was, I think, pretty vital on that show. And it's pretty vital on lots of shows, which is the somewhat older, somewhat wiser, somewhat more experienced character who can serve as a sounding board and a resource for your main characters and allow them a certain vulnerability with the knowledge that there's someone they can turn to if they need it. And I think just in dramatic structure,

that's a very powerful kind of character to have around. And both because of what it does to serve the drama and also because of the way it allows the audience to identify with and connect with the story yeah people seem seem to find a lot of appeal in that kind of character yeah i was lucky enough to get to play him yeah it was it was really a great character obviously there was that kind of you know the the fun that the the writers had in naming the character you know bobby which which was referenced to the executive producer robert singer bob singer and yeah who had nothing to do with it and he was completely chagrined that

they had dared name a character after him because, of course, he was a showrunner and all of his friends thought he did it himself. Yeah. Yeah, and Bob's great. He was on the podcast last year, and, of course, we talked a little bit about that. But it's just such a great thing that the fans have embraced, and it's been a little bit of humor and trivia,

but it never really impacted the show at all. Of course the, that was just a kind of a trivia piece of note, uh, which was fun. And of course, uh, Eric Kripke never likes to let a good gag go unrepeated. So of course I'm playing somebody else with the same name in the boys. So, uh, um, uh, the real Bob Singer, I think he's, uh, this is, this has become his cross to bear. For sure. Well, I know that, uh, you know, that season was kind of your last as a regular, but being

supernatural, no one's really dead, of course, because people can be brought back. So you did come back over the seasons, but I mean, how did you actually feel a little bit, just not being able to kind of be on the show and with those guys on a regular basis? I hated it. Yeah. Yeah. I hated it. It was, on one hand, it was a really glorious exit, as it were. Such a tremendous episode and such a tremendous storyline and dramatic opportunity for me playing Bobby. But when it sank in that I wasn't going to be there for, you know, half the episodes every season,

like I had been, uh, it was, it was, it was a sad time for me because I, uh, I loved the character. I loved the writing.

I loved the crew and I loved my fellow actors. And that's, that's a combination you do not always get in this business. And I really miss being in Vancouver with the gang, working with frequency and seeing people every day. On the other hand, the fact that they weren't using me as much on the show opened up a lot of really wonderful opportunities for me to do other things that I might have not been able

to do. So, you know, it's as with everything in this business, it's a mixed blessing. Right. I mean, that's the actor's actor's dilemma right you want to get on a show and have that consistency it does cut into some of your opportunities because of your availability is is not uh there as much but then when it all comes to an end i mean it that the thing about television is that every week you're creating a new, maybe a little bit more than a week. And it's just you get so tight with the crew as well as the cast. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've been on several shows where I was deeply connected with the cast and crew. But there's something about 15 years that transcends all those other experiences simply because it's hard to remember a day when I didn't

know those people. And also the Supernatural casting crew was very, very homey. It's such a cliche in the business. Oh, it's like a family on our show. It often is, but occasionally isn't. And sometimes it's just a job of work you go there you do your lines you go home and you don't care if you see those people again until the next day you go to work and that was not the case on supernatural it uh we're just such a grand bunch of people uh so much fun so much high humor um and low humor uh in that in that band yeah but a bunch of us were able just a couple weeks ago to get together again in vancouver and it was the first time we'd seen each other as a group uh since um the show finished and And, you know, it was several hours of just running around hugging people one after another.

And that doesn't happen on every show. Was that a con that you, or excuse me, one of those conventions? Well, there was a convention. It was a fan convention in Vancouver, but a bunch of the people from the show put together a party afterwards just for us, the cast casting crew and

our uh our families and so forth and so it was not part of the convention right it was held the same night the convention was wrapping up no it was well it doesn't matter which night it was but it was it happened coincidentally with it but not by by chance. Yeah. Right. Well, one reason why I wanted to bring you on right now, um, couldn't get anybody else. Well, there's that of course, but, uh, no last year, Bob Singer came on to kind of commemorate the one year anniversary of the finale. And we're coming right up on that. It was, I think, November 19th or somewhere right around there. So we're coming up on the two year anniversary of the finale. And of course, the really cool thing when I saw the finale and I, and I was working on the extras for the home entertainment.

So I obviously knew a little bit about it and saw it before the rest of the folks did. But when I saw that you played a very key role in that episode, and I just wanted to ask you about like, when did they reach out to you and kind of let you know that they wanted to have you in that last episode or two there toward the end? And how did that kind of all happen? Because obviously that was in the, you know, in the heart of COVID. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Hi, this is Tim Millard, host of The Extras Podcast. And I wanted to let you know that we have a new private Facebook group for fans of the Warner Archive and Warner Brothers catalog physical media releases. So if that interests you, you can find the link on our Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes.

Yeah, I don't recall exactly when they had told me that I was going to be part of it, but I think it was relatively early, probably midway through the season. early, probably midway through the season. I think they always had an idea of how they were going to wrap it up by the time they got into the writing process on season 15. But the COVID, as you mentioned, played a big part, not only in when we shot the finale but how we shot it because the intention was originally to have a lot of characters from the past show up again and we had shot I think the second from the last episode and I flew home from Vancouver on March 13th, I believe, which was the day I finished. And that was pretty much the day everything shut down.

Right. And so all of a sudden, these huge plans, which included the band Kansas and massive numbers of veterans of the show. All of those plans just kind of fell in a heap and, and it took a long time both for us to be able to come back and do the last episode, but, uh, it required an enormous amount of restructuring and rethinking how to do it. So in a way, I don't know if they thought of it this way, but I kind of think I was there sort of to represent

all of the other longstanding characters from the show who had been planned to be there, but because of COVID couldn't. And I think story-wise too, it was fitting. couldn't right and i think story-wise too it was fitting right um it was just a reunion of sorts that allowed the audience to see dean not only in heaven but in heaven and part of the continuum still connected with what he had been connected with on earth and uh i think it was very well put together for all of the hurdles that had to be jumped over right to get there uh i you know i really would have liked to have seen uh the original plan come to fruition but uh you know it is what it is and what they ended up with i thought worked really nicely and i was really really to be there, not only to be in the last episode, but to

be there on the last day of shooting and to be part of the gathering on the bridge that wrapped up the show. that wrapped up the show because aside from Jared Jensen, I was the only actor to have been in all 15 seasons. And it felt, it just felt really good to still be there at the end. Yeah. And with all my pals on that bridge. Yeah. Well, I remember seeing that episode and when Dean shows up at Harvell's and you're there and you, you know, you hand him a beer and you guys are talking.

That's just a poignant scene. I love it. It was beautifully art directed by Jerry Wannick and it was just shot beautifully by Serge. I mean, it was all really well done. The script, of course, to set that. It's so poignant and it just felt right you know you yeah you were kind of referencing back to that um that death's door episode that that we did the commentary for i mean that's the episode where your character bobby verbalizes

that hey i adopted these boys. I raised these boys. And I mean, so really it was so appropriate for your character to be the one there to meet him. Yeah. Well, I was very proud to be chosen to represent the people who had been important in their lives on the show. And it was a difficult or an awkward day shooting because we were still in the midst of COVID.

There was no vaccine. And we hadn't seen each other in several months. And the world was a little bit upside down. And, you know, there was this urge to run around hugging people and we couldn't we weren't allowed to right and so there was this kind of awkward standing several feet apart uh reuniting with friends of course by the end of the day by the time we got onto the bridge for the final shots and the farewell, when it was all over, there were about 200 people there who broke every COVID restriction there was because we were all hugging and crying.

It was almost impossible to restrain ourselves. Right. It's a pretty weird feeling to do something with people you love for 15 years and then say, okay, we're not going to do something with people you love for 15 years and then say okay we're not going to do this anymore right it's um it was sad yeah i'd do it all over again in a heartbeat and of course 15 years is historic you know i think it's the longest running science fiction fantasy you know show on television for that reason. We're not, we're not talking about Dr. Who or anything, but of, of the genre shows like that. So it's,

that was pretty historic and 15 years is enough time for, you know, somebody to have a kid and they're in high school. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I had, I had a four-year-old, I think when I, yeah, I had a four-year-old, I think. Yeah, I had a four-year-old when I started the show, and she's 21 now. And so my daughter Maddie grew up with Supernatural. Not that she watched it. She doesn't watch anything, I mean, pretty much.

But it's because I raised her with an enormous amount of taste. But yeah, you know, lives came and went during that time. 15 years is a long, it's an, it's, it's epochs. Right. Television time. And, and it's, it's pretty long just in regular times. You know, I've been thinking a little bit because I, you know, I have this podcast and we focus a lot on the home entertainment releases.

You know, there's two times you talk about a show a lot of time. One is before the show. Oh, you know, to get everybody excited. And then one's, you know, when the season's over or the movie's over and, and then you have another reason to talk about it. And I was thinking that this show 15 years, the world has changed. It's a streaming world now. And you watch one season of a streaming show and you you're thinking, I have no idea if there's going to be a second or third season of this series oftentimes.

And I think even if there is a second or third, I mean, when a show is four years on streaming, you think that's a long time on a streaming network, you know, will there ever be a show that goes 10 years on a streaming network? It's so hard to know because there's so much, there's so much that's kind of based off of, well, the algorithm says, and the numbers show, and, you know, there's very little kind of, well, I can't say for sure that there's very little, but when there's so much emphasis put on the numbers and everything, there may be a little less put onto an executive who just loves the show and says the numbers are good enough. and says the numbers are good enough. Yeah. I think that the elements have changed in a number of ways. One thing is shows come on down and a season runs eight episodes, and then it's a year, year and a half before the next season.

Right. And then, of course, you can come late to a show and watch all 15 seasons as fast as you can cram them into your brain. It's very different from when Supernatural started in 2005. And everything was still rather dependent upon getting what we call butts in seats on show night. Right. And none of that matters in the same way now. So it's hard to know because one of the show can say,

you know, yeah, this show is our top or second or third top rated show, but it's been on for a while and let's do something new. And it doesn't seem to impact the corporate bottom line all that much. So why not switch things up? It didn't used to be that way at all yeah and i don't think it'll ever be that way again yeah yeah but then what do i know well i mean the industry changes and that's part of life i mean that's always been every decade there's some new technology or something that changes the industry and pushes it one direction or another but kind of the the

key point of bringing that up was to say that supernatural at 15 years, that may be, that may be a situation that you don't run into again for quite some time. Yeah. We may be the last 15 year series. Yeah. Although I don't want to trumpet that too much because the one thing I've learned is the moment you make a pronouncement, somebody comes along and shows you just how wrong you are. Well, there's so many things that went into the success of those 15 years. And that was the stability right at the top between the two main stars.

And that's a whole nother factor in the fact that different showrunners came in and re-energized the show and the stars wanted to keep going. You know, that's also another big factor that have nothing to do with analytics or algorithms or anything. It's just the exhaustion of doing a TV schedule year after year after year and the same characters year after year creatively. That is a bunch of magic as well in the air for that show. I don't know a whole lot about all of the other jobs and roles that Jared and Jensen had before Supernatural, although I had done a soap opera with Jensen years before. done a soap opera with Jensen years before. But I suspect that they landed on Supernatural and very quickly found several ingredients that were unusual. And I suspect that their backgrounds, even though they were pretty young when we started out, I suspect their backgrounds told them,

this is a really good thing. Let's hang on to this. They're camaraderie together. They're, they seem to me, I mean, I only have 15, 16 years of experience with them, but they seem to me to be pretty much the brothers that they play on the show, not in terms of their personalities, but in terms of their connection with each other. And I never saw any signs of friction between them as actors. They always seemed kind of joined at the hip,

both in how they approached the show and in terms of business and in terms of their relationships with the crew and the production team uh they just seemed a magic fit from the beginning and the show gave them some really wonderful opportunities uh dramatic and comedic opportunities that probably made the daily grind of being a lead on an hour drama um more amenable uh i think it's the toughest job in acting is being the one or two leads on an hour drama on television because on a show where you or maybe one other person is the lead with you uh your hours are eaten up by work. Right. And you're in there, you're up at 5.30 in the morning,

and you may not get home until nearly midnight. You've got tons of lines every day. And with a show like ours, you mix in fight scenes. It's beyond exhausting. And I've dug ditches in my life, and I know how exhausting, real exhausting work can be. And it's much better paid than digging ditches. But it's mentally and physically exhausting to have to do that every day for months on end without much of a break. Right. When you're in an ensemble show where there are lots of characters who are prominent in the show. For example, when I was working on Deadwood, we had, I don't know, 25 people who were regularly seen on that show and the work was divvied up among them.

Right. When you're the lead or one of a pair of leads, that work hardly ever gets divvied up enough to give you a sense of rest. And I think that the quality of this show made it tolerable for them. I'm doing a lot of speaking for Jared and Jensen here, but I suspect they would agree with me that there was something about this show and what they were allowed to do on it that made the hard work worthwhile. Yeah. And, you know, in excess of, you know, whatever they were being paid to do it. Right. Because lots of shows will pay you good money and leave you miserable and drained and ready to quit. Right. And apparently this one didn't.

and ready to quit. Right. And apparently this one didn't. Well, do you have any memories of working with those guys or from the show that are, you know, it's been a few years now, right? So a few memories sometimes stick with you. Well, probably the clearest aspect of my memory of working with them on the show is how fun loving

and loosey goosey the set was and in large part because of them because on most sets the top of the call sheet determines a lot of the spirit of the set right and how effectively and efficiently and professionally, we were able to get the show done while still having enormous fun doing it. There are shows where once people start having fun on the set, the work level drops. And I'm sure there were times when our first assistant directors, Kevin Parks and John McCarthy and several of the others were throwing up their hands at how much fun the cast was having, especially as it approached three o'clock

in the morning on a Saturday. But for the most part, it was like going to summer camp and coming up with a brand new Porsche every week. You know, you don't think of fun producing something that finely tuned. And Jared and Jensen were the absolute glue that made that happen. Because it doesn't matter how fun loving the crew is or how much enjoyment there is to be had in the workplace. If the lead actors are throwing a wet blanket over it, it becomes a wet blanket situation. Right.

And it stays that way. Right. And that's not who these guys are. Yeah. thorough professionals, but they understand that even though we're in a business that is in some ways, no less a factory job than making tractors, it's possible to do it with an enormous amount of goodwill. And I think that's one of the overlooked qualities of the three guys at the top of the call sheet, Jared Jensen and Misha. Because once he joined the show in such a prominent role, Misha fit exactly in with that spirit. And that's part of the magic of the show that doesn't get as much press because people don't see it.

You know, the audience isn't there to see how much fun we have or how well we get along. Right. And they can only infer that from what they see on screen or what they see in the gag reels. Those gag reels are pretty typical of what life was like on the show. Right. Yeah. Of what life was like on the show. Right. There are other shows that put out gag reels and the gag reels were the only fun moments in making the show. Yeah. That of course you knew that sometimes stuff had been cut from the wrap party version of the reel. And you know, so what the fans got to see was terrific and fun and everything,

but versions you got to see, and I got to see before we had to cut that version down. Yeah. Before you insert a car horn honking. Exactly. And, you know, I always, I take a certain pride in my professionalism at work. And I realized after a couple of seasons that I wasn't showing up in the gag reels all that much because they weren't pulling a lot of jokes on me and I wasn't messing up much. So I started having to figure out ways that I could get on the gag reel without looking like somebody who can't act well. But yeah, well, you know, the supernatural obviously continues for many people now with the launch of this new show, The Winchesters.

And I mean, it's in good hands with Robbie Thompson and Jensen and Daniel. I don't know if you've had a chance to check it out, but what are your thoughts on this kind of the prequel of Supernatural in The Winchesters? Well, I'm excited about it. I have not seen it yet. I'm excited about it. I have not seen it yet. I'll confess that I've been traveling extensively since it came on the air and haven't had a chance to sit down long enough to get a good look at it. But the idea is exciting because it keeps the show alive in a way that I wasn't expecting. And, you know, I'm a little nervous that John and Mary are going to run into Bobby Singer at some point and it's not going to be me.

That's a little disconcerting, although, you know, I I think I still look 30, so I could probably pull it. Is anybody still listening? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. still listening yeah um yeah yeah well i think i i watched the the pilot episode and i think they're about 21 or so uh age-wise so even at 30 uh it might be a few years till they get to you yeah yeah that's true that's true well if there's one part I don't want to age out of, it's Bobby Singer. Fortunately, everybody thinks he's already old, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

From the show, right. The Extras is a production of Otaku Media, producers of podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connects creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals at www.otakumedia.tv or look for the link in the show notes. Well, you mentioned earlier, and this is another Bobby Singer connection, but the boys. And I wanted to ask you kind of how did that come about? I mean, did Eric reach out to you or somebody from the show? How did that kind of come about?

Because I think you were introduced fairly early on in the show, weren't you, in that first season? Yeah, I'm in the first season of the boys. Well, it was it was purely Eric. He reached out and said he wanted me to do this thing. I can't remember if he told me right off the bat that I had the same name as the character in Supernatural. I was a little shocked and delighted at that. You know, Eric, for reasons that slightly escaped me, I mean, I know I'm pretty good at what I do when I show up and I generally know my lines and I don't bump into things too often.

But Eric seems to have taken a liking to me enough to put me on just about everything he's done since Supernatural. So I wasn't horribly surprised when he called me this. But I kind of thought, well, they need a government official to talk to every once in a while, and I'll probably drop in once a season or something like that. It's turned into something a little more than that. It's a very different part than the old Bobby Singer. It's a lot more suit and tie stuff. Right.

Eric loves Easter eggs. Right. He plants them everywhere. And even though it's not the same character, the character has the same name and he's from the same hometown. And, you know, that's just Eric, I think, having fun. Right.

And The Boys is the kind of show you can really have that kind of fun with. We did it a few times in Supernatural with the French mistake. And, you know, it shows that we're self-referential. And there's a lot of that going on in The Boys. And I'm delighted to be part of it. I kind of miss chasing ghosts and demons and I'm hoping you know that I stick around

a long time without getting my head exploded which is a risk on the boys yeah and unlike Supernatural I haven't seen a big track record on the boys of people coming back from the dead.

So I hope I get a long run on it. For one thing, I just love working for Eric and knowing him and being somewhere in his circle. And he brings with him not only enormous talents but he brings people i know and love from supernatural and the other says we worked on together um yeah sagresia who was a producer and director on supernatural who i know from working with bob singer and phil back in the 90s right um you know when you've been around as long as I have, one of the great joys is working with people, not only that you like, but that you've worked with many times before. And it expands this feeling of family I was talking about to show up on a set and see Phil Segracia's directing. It just feels like, OK, I'm safe here. Right.

safe here. Even though I may not know all this crew or all these actors, I'm in good hands because Phil or Bob Singer or Eric or one of these wonderful people I've worked with many times before is there to make sure that I do what I'm supposed to and have a good time doing it. Yeah. There seems to be quite a few supernatural type connections because of Eric and Phil and obviously they brought you back and then Jensen here in season three as Soldier Boy. I mean, there's been a lot and that's fun

and it's fun for obviously fans who are fans of both of those shows to see the folks and get those little Easter eggs. Yeah. And in terms of the actors, to get a chance to see us playing in cryptic world, but doing something different. Right.

I suspect Soldier Boy was something of a surprise and shock for a lot of people who only knew jensen from supernatural and but that's you know that's the fun of being an actor that's not a part of the joy and part of the request is to do things that you haven't done before right whether it's as simple as riding down a hill and robbing a stagecoach or flying to venus or burying your ass in front of 50 million people. You know, it's fun not to do the same thing over and over. Right. When Robert Singer,

Bob Singer, the director, executive producer was on last year, I was asking him a little bit about his earlier career. And you just mentioned that you had worked with him and with Phil on some stuff back in the 90s. And I'm mentioned that you had worked with, uh, with him and with Phil on some stuff back in the nineties. And I'm, I'm guessing that was what midnight caller and Lois and Clark as well. Uh, well, sort of, sort of, uh, the first time I ever worked for Bob

was an episode of midnight caller. Right. And,. And he seemed rather happy with what I did on that show. And the writer of that episode, a fellow named John Shulian, was very nice to me about what I did in that show. I think it was the only time I've ever gotten a letter from a writer thanking me for my work on the show. a letter from a writer thanking me for my work on the show. And the following year, Bob had a new show called Reasonable Doubts. And it was a cop and lawyer show with Mark Harmon and Marlee Matlin. And John Shulian, so he told me, wrote a part for me on that show. So that's where I really got to know Bob. My Midnight Caller was just a one episode experience and Bob wasn't even on the set when we shot that. But I got to know

him much better on Reasonable Doubts, which I worked on for a couple of years. But then I did do an episode of Lois and Clark, but it was before Bob took it over. Oh, okay. So I didn't work with him on that show. Right. And in fact, I didn't work with him again for over a decade until Supernatural came along, by which point I figured he had long since gotten sick of me or forgotten me or whatever. But then all of a sudden, this character came along came along on supernatural and he thought it fit me pretty

well. So, um, here we are. Well, he probably had, you know, was familiar with your recent work right around that time on, uh, Deadwood, I guess. Um, you know, I've never talked to him about that. I have no idea if he's ever seen me in anything he did. Well, let's see. Cause you, Deadwood ran 2004 to 2006 or so. Well, that's when it, yeah, that's when it aired.

Aired, okay. Yeah. And then. We started shooting in 2002. 2002, okay. And then, and then you started Supernatural, you started Supernatural around 2006, aired again, of course. They actually overlapped which is why bobby singer had a beard oh um i was doing deadwood and they asked me to come up to vancouver to shoot this

one episode of supernatural and uh the deadwood folks said yeah you can go but don't shave because we may have some more stuff for you. And it was just a one-off as far as I knew. So, uh, yeah, that's why Bobby Singer has a beard because, uh, I had one on Deadwood and they weren't done with me. Right. Turned out they were done with me, but nobody knew it at the time. Yeah. Right. Just in case. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, there was, there was just enough overlap there that I haven't had to show my chin to a lot of people for about 20 years. Well, I was looking at, you know, your IMDB just because I, I mean, I knew the ones that we've talked about, but you've worked in a lot of comedies over the years as well and you even appeared in recently be positive

yeah i um you know it's strange you spend a lot of time doing dramatic stuff and people think well you know he doesn't do comedy and then you you somehow stumble into a comedy. And then after a bit, you find people saying, yeah, but can he do drama? It's a weird world. Right. But I've done so much more drama than I've done comedy on television that I think people don't necessarily associate me with it. But every once in a while, somebody says, yeah, come do this. And I think, oh, how did they know I can do this? Because it's not like I've got this major track record.

My first series as a regular was a comedy. A thing called Thunder Alley with Ed Asner back in the early 90s. But at that time, I had never been able to get cast on a sitcom. People said, yeah, well, he does pretty good in drama, but he doesn't look like he's funny. And although apparently some people think I'm funny looking, but it's kind of like having a home in two different towns. And when you're in one town, people are surprised to find that you've ever lived in the other one.

Wow. And if you go back and forth a lot, people presume you're only in the town you live in and may not realize that you've got another place over here that's just as comfortable. Right. another place over here that's just as comfortable right so uh i was coming off several years of just doing drama when uh chuck lorry called up and offered me this gig on be positive i was sorry that it didn't last longer right it was a great show and if you had asked me a year and a half ago, if I was ever going to be Jane Seymour's love interest, I'd have said you were insane. So that was cool. Yeah. Yeah. I, I worked on a lot of the, you know, I worked on supernatural, but a lot of my time was spent working on the Big Bang Theory. And I spent a lot of time there because it was on the lot versus Supernatural being in

Vancouver. And I was in Burbank just in terms of time or my ability to go over to the set. So I got to know some of those writers, you know, that worked, that are part of Chuck's team. I mean, they're just so amazingly talented and great. And I loved going over there. And I, when Be Positive took off or just started, I was there and I was kind of working, you know, with the show with a little bit of the early part of the launch promotional materials and things. But then I left before the, that season was over. So I didn't get a chance to, to kind of follow through with that. But when I saw that you were on there and I'm left before the, that season was over. So I didn't get a chance to, to kind of follow through with that. But when I saw that you were on there and I'm like, Oh, that's terrific. I'm so, uh, I'm so happy that you were able to get in there. And it's funny

because a lot of people on supernatural, a lot of the actors, I think, um, and I have to think about Jensen specifically have great comedy and Jared, and it showed up in the gag grills. They just have, and Misha, what am I saying? All three of those guys just have a great ability to do comedy. And I suppose at some point they'll get that opportunity to show that side of them a little bit more in, you know, in something that they do down the road. Yeah. Yeah. One of the great fun things about supernatural was how funny it could be.

Right. And, uh, the fact that all of the cast, I think, whenever they were given comedic opportunities, just really stepped up to the plate, as it were, and did really well. You know, considering I don't think of myself as someone who gets thought of as a sitcom kind of actor, I suspect among the most frequent cast members on Supernatural, I may have more experience in that than some of the others because off the top of my head, I can't think of anything Misha or Jared or Jensen or the Marks have done on sitcom. It doesn't mean they haven't. I'm just unaware of it.

So even though I don't tend to think of myself as someone who is considered in that area very often, uh, I probably may have done more than the other guys, but that doesn't mean they don't have the comedy chops. Right. No, I, you could, I can tell. I mean, I can just tell if they were given the right role, you know, they could do it. And it's not just the role. I mean, these guys are very, very, very funny.

Right. Just as themselves. You're right. Right. You could put them all on a show where they just interacted. And I think you did a pretty good on it. Right. Right.

Well, and this is a little bit off to left field, but I worked on this show, Mom. And I remember, I remember when Allison Janney was cast on that show and she, you know, she's played so many serious dramatic roles and she was just hilarious. And it was great. Just like you were talking about in your situation, when you get an actor who people or the audience doesn't think of them in that role, in that way of, of a comedic way, but then you can just really strike gold and it's really great. Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, there are people out there who make pretty good living as dramatic actors who can't do comedy or can't do sitcom, which is a very different animal from doing, you know, like a Preston Sturges movie. Um, sitcom has very specific requirements in terms of how you deliver lines

and the timing right and just technical things like projection and and it's a process that not everybody takes to but i mean it's also it's also live studio audience and so you have that theater element to it which takes a little getting used to yeah um i think there are a lot of actors who are very good at comedy who nevertheless might not be able to do sitcom particularly well right um well i know there are i've encountered a few but uh for the most part somebody who's really good at dramatic acting is probably really good at comedy too, because the skills all draw from the same well. They just get flavored different over time. Right. Hey, there was another movie that you did last year that I did want to ask you about, and that was Nightmare Alley, which, I mean, Guillermo del Toro, he's got so much coming out

right now. In October, November, he's on Netflix. He's got his The Cabinet of Curiosities came out. This Pinocchio from the looks of the trailer and what I'm hearing looks amazing. So I did want to ask you about that experience working on that film last year. Well, it was my second film with Guillermo, whom I love dearly and who is probably the most, well, I think he's a genius. I don't think there's any way around that notion. Whether all of his pictures appeal to any particular person or not, he knows so much about how to make movies and how to make them effectively. And when you add to that his artistic vision and his incredible warmth as a human being,

he's such a joy to be around. He first cast me in a picture called Crimson Peak back in 2013, 14. Right. And I had a very substantial role in that. That came out of the blue. I just got a call and they said, do you want to play a major role in Guillermo del Toro's new movie? And I was like, how does he know who I am?

And I had figured at the time that being Guillermo, it must have been a supernatural connection because he loves that stuff. As it turned out, he had seen me on Deadwood and thought I would be right for this character. Well, I had a grand experience on that. When he was putting Nightmare Alley together, he told me that he had a part for me, and he said it was a smallish part, but he wanted me on the picture, and

he thought I could do well with it. And it was not the part I ended up playing. Yeah, he had originally thought of me for the judge character, who's, well, I don't want to give away the spoiler, but there's a judge who is married to a character played by Mary Steenburgen, who has an unfortunate situation in the film. And it's a nice little part. I, you know, it wasn't a leading role like the one in Crimson Peak had been, but he had such a wealth of terrific actors involved with the show. And it was Guillermo. I mean,

I'd have come over and painted his house if he asked me so. Yeah. But then a few months after he asked me to do that part, he called up and said, I keep thinking there's another part. You might like better. And he told me about this sheriff role. And I remembered that character very, very distinctly from the original Turon Power movie from 1947. And it's a memorable role, even though it's a single scene. And he offered me the choice of whichever of the two roles I wanted. And I took the smaller one because I thought it would be more interesting to play and more memorable.

And I think it was. Yeah, I agree. I was very delighted to have that part. Once again, we got hit with the whole COVID thing. And I was supposed to shoot that in the spring of 2020. As I recall, right after we were supposed to finish Supernatural. And as it ended up, both Supernatural and Nightmare Alley had to halt production. And we came back in the fall and finally caught up with it all.

I think it's just an utterly gorgeous movie and I love Guillermo's take on the material. I love the book. I love the original film

and I love this new one and I was so happy to be part of it, even in a single scene. Yeah. Because, you know, there are no small parts. They're just really tiny paychecks. Well, I felt like that film is one of the casualties. You know, there's many films that came out 2021, casualty of the theaters, people not being able to go. Yeah.

And for listeners out there, you can see it if you have a subscription to HBO Max. Obviously you can get the physical media copy of it on Blu-ray as well. But it's the type of movie, like I think pretty much all of his movies that are best experienced in a dark theater with other people. They're creepy. They're scary. They're uniquely, they touch you psychologically. You know what I mean?

And something about being in a theater with others, I think that film would have benefited from that. And I think most people watched at home, unfortunately. Yeah. There's also the fact that the production design and cinematography in Guillermo's films is exquisite. Exquisite, yes. Almost without exception. Yeah. And those things are best seen on a big screen. Yeah.

I was delighted that Nightmare Alley was the first film I've ever been in that was nominated for Best Picture. Right. And I was very happy that Dan Lawson, the cinematographer for both It and Crimson Peak, was nominated. Right. for both It and Crimson Peak, was nominated. Right. I do think that they'd have had better chances at those kinds of awards if all of the audiences who saw them had seen them on a big screen. There's just no comparison.

Yeah. You know, if you're going to make a movie with the incredible amount of detail and precision that Guillermo del Toro makes movies with, it's a shame to miss a huge percentage of the experience by only seeing it on a television, even a large screen television. There are design elements in Crimson Peak, for example, that are only visible on the big screen. And little, for want of a better term, Easter eggs about characters that are built into the clothing designs

and the upholstery and ornamental aspects of the furniture and the walls that you can see them on a big screen. And they inform what you're experiencing. And they get lost when you start shrinking it down to even, you know, 65-inch television screens. Right, right. Lots of shame. Yeah, and this upcoming film of his, Pinocchio, this stop motion, I think, you know, I'm going to make every effort to go to the theater to see it, even though it will be also available on Netflix.

For the reasons you've just mentioned. mentioned. His films are well worth it to go to the theater. Of course, I'm a, I'm a theater evangelist in many ways, because I think that the best way to watch films of that caliber are on the theater. And then if you want to rewatch it, it's fine to rewatch it, you know, at home. And then if you love a film like that, I always encourage people buy it by the physical media, the Blu-ray or the 4k. Now I have a good 4k setup because a filmmaker of his caliber, you know, with the detail you can see on a 4k at home, even just really brings it and then also he uses a lot of um a lot of his films are dark so to have that 4k quality at home you can get to some of that detail that uh that you also get in

the theater where the the darks pop and you can see the detail in the dark part of the episode yeah i think if we lose theater going as a movie mode of being part of an audience, we're going to lose some great filmmakers because if everything ends up being on a television screen, I think people who make films are going to find themselves thinking, why put this much effort into something nobody's going to see in terms of physical detail and lighting. And, uh, uh, I think the experience can be so much richer in the theater. Right. Um, you know, I was talking, I was talking on a recent episode to cinematographer Tom Sigal, who, you know, he did Bohemian Rhapsody and he did the usual suspects and X-Men. And, you know,

he did some movies that were only pretty much seen on Netflix. And he said he treats it the same in terms of how he does a setup and everything. And I can understand that because he has such a long career. He's not going to change. But I do worry a little bit about the future, about executives or people saying, do we really need that kind of detail? Can we cut the budget? You know, can we do things like that? That would be a real shame down the road if that starts to happen.

But for now, we don't have to worry about it because those folks who are, you know, doing the movies are making sure that detail is there. All the art directors are making sure, you know, the craftspeople are going to make sure they still want to make sure that they get all of the details correct yeah yeah well hey it's been really fun i mean we started off talking supernatural which i love talking about but it's been fun kind of you know ranging all over the map here on films that you've worked on and other films we enjoy and stuff it's very fun for me yeah i just want to thank you for coming on the podcast. I appreciate it. Well, I very much appreciate the opportunity to ramble on about my friends and the work we did

and how proud I am to be associated with all those people. I'm going to steal from Lou Gehrig. I feel like the luckiest man on the face of the earth. My first professional acting job was 50 years ago. I'm, uh, I've spent a lifetime doing things that I really, really enjoyed and that largely I was very proud of,

and I got to do them with people that I love. So yeah, that's lucky me. Yep. That's good fortune right there. Thanks again to actor Jim Beaver for coming on the podcast to talk about his career in television and film. As he mentioned, he's the only other actor on the TV series Supernatural besides Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki to have appeared in all 15 seasons. So it's a real treat to take a look back at the series with him. We do have other Supernatural podcast episodes, so I will have links to them in the show notes and on our website at www.theextras.tv. So be sure and check those out if you're interested. If this is the first episode of The Extras you've listened to and you enjoyed it,

please think about following the show at your favorite podcast provider. If you're on social media, be sure and follow the show on Facebook or Twitter at The Extras TV or Instagram at TheExtras.TV to stay up to date on our upcoming guests and to be a part of our community. And for our long-term listeners, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review at iTunes, Spotify, or your favorite podcast provider. Until next time, you've been listening to Tim Millard. Stay slightly obsessed. The Extras is a production of Otaku Media, producers of podcasts, behind the scenes extras, and media that connects creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals at www.otakumedia.tv or look for the link in the show notes.