Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - YAPClassic: Josh Kaufman Teaches How to Acquire Any Skill in Just 20 Hours

Starting point is 00:00:00 This episode of YAP is sponsored in part by Shopify. Shopify simplifies selling online and in-person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com-profiting. What's up, YAP fam? I've got another yapp classic for you today, and we're going to listen to part 2 of my interview with Josh Kaufman, who's a well-known researcher speaker and bestselling author of three books. So Josh is really known for his TED Talk the first 20 hours. It was one of the most viral TED Talks of all time. This TED Talk is one of the top

Starting point is 00:00:45 25 most viewed TED Talks with over 22 million views on YouTube. And this interview that I had with Josh on Young and Profiting was super interesting and so many of you guys have reached out to me since this episode was published, I think, over a year ago now. And we're going to replay it in honor of the New Year because it talks about something so important and that's gaining new skills We talk about skill stacking all the time on yet, but so many people feel like they don't have enough time to learn a new skill It's a big excuse that they tell themselves and so this episode proves them wrong And I thought what better timing than in honor of the New Year to put this out because so many of you guys probably have Learning a new skill as one of the top resolutions on your list for 2023. So in this episode, Josh breaks down how

Starting point is 00:01:29 to learn a new skill in just 20 hours. He's learned the basics of several skills this way from computer coding to playing the ukulele. In this episode, we discuss the emotional obstacles we need to overcome as well as the myths involved with learning new skill. And we'll gain insight on Josh's four steps of rapid skill acquisition. Let's kick off this episode by asking Josh about his wildly popular TED Talk, the first 20 hours. So in this TED Talk, it had almost, I think, 25 million views. It was like one of the most popular TED Talks ever. Let me ask you a personal question. How did that change your life? That must have been such a big deal. Ted Talks for back in, I think you did in 2013. That was a huge deal back then, even more than it is now. How did that change your life?

Starting point is 00:02:18 Yeah, no, it's been really interesting. In all of my projects, I try to learn something new. And so, you know, for the personal MBA, it was all about like, how can I take this massive subject and try to teach someone who may have never done it before, thought about it before? Like, can I condense something big and do something manageable? And so for the first 20 hours, it's not as big of a subject as varied as businesses, but it's important and it's valuable. And so the first 20 hours is my project of, can I take an important idea and spread it? Can I get an important message out to the maximum number of people that I can reach with it? And who knows what the result of that is going to be, but I'm pretty sure, like this is an important part of life.

Starting point is 00:03:10 And so it's going to help people if I can just get the word out. And so the TED talk, I had no idea what to expect. And there were 500 people in the audience at the time that I gave the talk. And I arranged to have the end of a particular skill that I was practicing, like, beyond stage at the moment. So people could see what it looked like.

Starting point is 00:03:36 And it was terrifying. And I didn't know how it was going to turn out. Like, that was very much a, you know, doing a trapeze act without a net below you sort of thing. And I'm both very happy that it turned out the way that it did. And then yeah, it's Ted at the time was just starting to become, you know, a popular cultural force. And I'm really happy that when something takes off like that, it's like it's because there's something intrinsically valuable to it. So that was my contribution. But then, you know, both Ted being willing to spread the word to a large group of people. And then also to the people who

Starting point is 00:04:22 watched it, used it, talked to other people about it, said, hey, you know, I saw this video about this cool thing, you should see it too. Like, I can't take credit for any of that. And I think in general, like, of all of the things to contribute to people in the world, like helping them become better at things that are valuable and important to them. Like, I feel really good about that as a contribution to the world of ideas. So speaking of your TED Talk, you talked about it takes 10,000 hours

Starting point is 00:04:56 to learn a new skill. And that's what we've all been conditioned to believe, right? So this was like a myth that we all heard. It had some scientific basing behind it, but it was kind of a game of telephone gone wrong. So explain that to us. Talk to us about this 10,000 hours missed to acquire a new skill and what you discovered when you looked into it. Yeah, so this really came from a couple of different intersecting interests of mine. Part of it is just, I like learning things. I like experimenting.

Starting point is 00:05:28 I like being able to do things I've never been able to do before. I find that intrinsically rewarding. And so I'm really curious, like when you have never done something before, but you want to, what's the best way to go about doing that? Like how do you go from not knowing anything

Starting point is 00:05:46 and not being good at all to being pretty good in a short period of time? And at the time, and even still, I was going through the transition of being a parent for the first time. And a lot of the time and energy that I was using to learn new things was now being invested in my kids and my family. And so when you don't have a lot of upfront time, you know, free

Starting point is 00:06:13 energy to invest, efficiency becomes a much bigger concern than it ever had been. And so these, that personal interest, but then also this was the ascendancy of the 10,000 hours rule, which has been around in various incarnations for a while. It started with the work of Kay Anders Erickson, who is a professor at the University of Florida. He did a lot of research around skill acquisition. And in a series of studies, the most famous one being of violinists, like, okay, trying to predict who are going to be the top violinists from a particular school.

Starting point is 00:06:56 And they did studies of how much did those violinists practice under the idea that, well, probably the folks who practiced more are probably better playing the violin. And some of those studies basically said, yeah, I think that's, that's true. And the rough order of magnitude to get to be the best of the best was around 10,000 hours plus or minus. There has been some additional research that indicates the variation of that is extreme. So think of it as, you know, error bars above or below 10,000 hours. Like the error bars are like three or four thousand dollars or three or four thousand hours

Starting point is 00:07:39 a piece. Like just the range of mastery is extreme. So there was, it's an interesting question, right? Like if you want to become the best in the world of something or like, you know, in the top 0.001% of a particular skill, what does it take to get there? Interesting question, like you want to be a professional athlete, how much are you gonna need to practice?

Starting point is 00:08:01 Like, going to our conversation earlier about status, that feels like really, really interesting and cool to think about, right? Like, how much of my life would I have to invest in some thing to be like an Olympic gold medalist or, you know, things like that? And so, most of the research and most of the conversation around skill

Starting point is 00:08:24 was all about that question. Like, what does it take to get to mastery? How do you become the best in the world? And I realized at a certain point, like, that's not the question. That's not the question for most of us. The question is, if we want to learn how to do something that we're not able to do right now, we're not talking about mastery at all. We're talking about competence.

Starting point is 00:08:48 We're talking about going from nothing to like doing something. We're not competing against the world. We're competing against ourselves and our previous lack of ability. And so I wanted to answer the question of, what does it take to go from nothing to being pretty good? And that is really, it's a valuable topic to consider and think about and care about, because particularly for adults, when we begin learning something we've never done before, those early hours of practice are hell.

Starting point is 00:09:24 It's's frustrating. You think it feels like you should be able to do this thing and you just can't get yourself to do it for whatever reason. What I found with adult learners is that people give up way too quickly. There's an enormous amount of psychological research that says, the most efficient hours of practice that we will ever spend are the early hours. Like, we improve, think of it like per hour of effort invested. The biggest rate of improvement is right at the beginning. It's just the beginning is really difficult and so most people never make it.

Starting point is 00:10:00 And so what I found both through research and then replicating it in my own experiments is the first 20-ish hours of practice are very frustrating, very difficult, but very effective. And so, you know, the level of skill or the level of competence that you're able to achieve after a very small amount of practice in the grand scheme of things is pretty significant. And so if you have a way of making those early hours of practice more effective and more efficient than the otherwise could be or would be without having a plan, you can become way, way better at a huge variety of things, you know, whatever personal or professional things that you care about.

Starting point is 00:10:47 A very narrow strategic investment of time and energy can produce some very extreme rewards. And you just need to go about doing it in a smart way. Let's hold that thought and take a quick break with our sponsors. Young and profitors, do you have a brilliant business idea but you don't know how to move forward with it? Going into debt for a four-year degree isn't the only path to success. Instead, learn everything you need to know

Starting point is 00:11:15 about running a business for free by listening to the Millionaire University podcast. The Millionaire University podcast is a show that's changing the game for aspiring entrepreneurs. Hosted by Justin and Tara Williams, it's the ultimate resource for those who want to run a successful business and graduate rich, not broke. Justin and Tara started from Square One, just like you and me. They faced lows and dug themselves out of huge debt. Now they're financially free and they're sharing their hard-earned lessons with all of us.

Starting point is 00:11:43 That's right, Millionaire University will teach you everything you need to know about starting and growing a successful business. No degrees required. In each episode you'll gain invaluable insights from seasoned entrepreneurs and mentors who truly understand what it takes to succeed. From topics like how to start a software business without creating your own software, to more broad discussions such as eight businesses you can start tomorrow to make 10k plus month, this podcast has it all. So don't wait, now is the time to turn your business idea into a reality by listening to the Millionaire University podcast. New episodes drop Mondays

Starting point is 00:12:15 and Thursdays, find the Millionaire University podcast on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Your dog is an important part of your family. Don't settle when it comes to their health. Make the switch to fresh food made with real ingredients that are backed by science with NOMNOM. NOMNOM delivers fresh dog food that is personalized to your dog's individual needs. Each portion is tailored to ensure your dog gets the nutrition they need so you can watch them thrive. NOMNOM's ingredients are cooked individually and then mixed together, because science tells us that every protein, carb, and veggie has different cooking times and methods. This packs in all the vitamins and minerals your dog needs, so they truly get the most

Starting point is 00:12:55 out of every single bite. And Nom-nom is completely free of additives, fillers, and mystery ingredients that contribute to bloating and low energy. Your dog deserves only the best, and Nom Nom delivers just that. Their nutrient packed recipes are crafted by board certified veterinary nutritionists, made fresh and shipped to your door. Absolutely free. Nom Nom meals started just $2.40, and every meal is cooked in company owned kitchens right here in the US. And they've already

Starting point is 00:13:25 delivered over 40 million meals, inspiring clean bowls and wagging tails everywhere. Ever since I started feeding my dog Nom Nom, he's been so much more energetic and he's getting older, he's a senior dog, but now we've been going on longer walks and he's much more playful. He used to be pretty sluggish and sleeping all the time, but I've definitely noticed a major improvement since I started feeding him nom nom. And the best part, they offer a money back guarantee. If your dog's tail isn't wagging within 30 days, they'll refund your first order. No fillers, no nonsense, just nom nom. Go right now for 50% off your no risk 2 week trial at trinom.com Sasha. That's trinom and om.com Sasha for 50% off your no-risk two-week trial at trinom.com-jap. That's trinom.nom.com-jap for 50% off trinom.com-jap.

Starting point is 00:14:16 Yeah. So you're talking about, you were saying before that the first 20 hours are very frustrating. You also said, you know said in your TED Talk, and I'm sure in your book, that just getting started is a barrier because emotionally, it's really hard for us to even just get started. So it's really funny that we brought up this camera example

Starting point is 00:14:36 because in real life, I have a YouTube camera that I got for Christmas, a very expensive one. And it's been sitting in my box since Christmas, and I haven't even opened it up now I'm very tech savvy. I run automations and and do I can do everything when it comes to technology But for some reason I have not opened my box. I am scared of learning how to use this new camera So talk to us about the emotions behind starting something new Yeah, there's there's something interesting that happens.

Starting point is 00:15:06 And this was, this was particularly highlighted after my kids were born of, you never see a toddler like right when they're at the stage of, of standing on their own two feet and starting to take a step. A toddler will never take a step, fall, sit down, and say to himself or herself, wow, I'm just really bad at walking. I need to, I need to not do this anymore. This is terrible. And quit, right?

Starting point is 00:15:34 So you, you see them want to do a thing. They tried to do the thing. They fail, but they learn and they adjust and they keep at it. And then eventually they're able to do the thing. And so, I think that children have this reputation of just learning so quickly, you know, absorbing the world around them like a sponge. That's not exactly true. Like when you actually look at a child learning, they're just failing over and over and over and over again. The secret is that they don't care as much. It doesn't keep them from trying again in the same way that it doesn't adult.

Starting point is 00:16:13 And so adults, I found we place a lot of unnecessary pressure or shoulds on ourself. A good classic example is, which has some research literature backing it, is that most kids love to draw. We'll draw all the time just for fun. And then there's a point in late middle school to early junior high where kids stop drawing. And it's that point where they can see what they want to draw in their minds. And the thing that they put on paper is not representative of that and that becomes very frustrating. And so there's this, there's this self-consciousness that happens when you're learning as an adult. It's like I should be able to do better than I'm doing. I should be able to figure out this damn camera. I should be able to do this thing that I want to be able to do and I just I can't do it yet. And it's the emotional experience that's the barrier. It's not your

Starting point is 00:17:11 intelligence, it's not your capacity for improvement, it's not your capability to learn or improve, it is 100% an emotional barrier. And so I think knowing that in advance of learning is a tremendous gift, right? Like, you don't have to worry so much about the intrinsic ability parts. It's like, no, this is the experience everyone has. It's something, you know, talking earlier about like the sales objections that you know are coming so you could prepare for them in advance. This is that, but improving ourselves. We know the frustration is coming. We know that it's normal, and we know that it doesn't

Starting point is 00:17:50 take an enormous amount of persistence to get to the point of seeing very real, very tangible improvement. And so having a strategy to get through those frustrating early hours makes it both much more likely that you're going to pick up the skill to begin with, but it makes it much more likely that you're going to persist long enough to see an actual improvement. Even just like you said, knowing that there's an emotional barrier to starting something new, even when I was watching your TED Talk, I was like, oh my gosh, that's why I haven't opened my YouTube camera.

Starting point is 00:18:25 Like, I need to just do it, you know? So even just knowing. So I hope everybody out there listening, if there's something that you're scared to do, I hope you take the actions to do it. And let's talk about what a learning curve looks like. Because I think that's important before we go into the steps of actually, you know,

Starting point is 00:18:39 acquiring a new skill and going through some of your four steps. So first, describe to us what a learning curve looks like. Yeah, so this is something that's kind of bandied about a lot. And people will talk about steep learning curves as if that's a bad thing. No, it's actually a really good thing. So think of it like you're graphing your improvement per time spent or per minute or per hour spent in a skills. time spent or per minute or per hour spent in a skills. If let's say, you take a skill that you would only improve like 1% per year, the learning curve is just like this slow ramp up. And that's really bad.

Starting point is 00:19:19 That's really frustrating. Those are the things that drive you nuts. Steep learning curves are you want to see dramatic improvement at the beginning, and then you reach some sort of plateau. And so the plateau, you can think of it going back to the business concepts, the plateau's the point of diminishing returns. Like that's the point where there's still the opportunity for improvement, but it's going to take a lot of time and energy to get to that next level.

Starting point is 00:19:45 So think this is something where, you know, when you get to the mastery level, if you are at chest grand master or an Olympic sprinter or whatever, you will work for years, you know, in the sprinter example, for like a 0.01 second improvement on your 100 meter time. Like, that's where the mastery, like putting an enormous amount of energy into just like a tiny, tiny, marginal improvement. It's where you see that. But at the beginning of the process,

Starting point is 00:20:15 the steep learning curve is like, no, you're just spending a few hours and you're going from terrible to pretty decent, to really good to competent in a very, very compressed period of time. So the research literature suggests that, this is called the power law of practice, has been replicated many, many times

Starting point is 00:20:38 by psychological researchers who will give like either a cognitive or a physical movement it's called a motor task. And they'll just graph, you know, give them something that you can like observe in time and, you know, assess competence. And you'll see very quickly, like, those first few hours of practice are super effective. Like, you go from being really bad to pretty decent in a short period of time and then you level off. And so my question is like, okay, for all of the things that would be useful to learn either for work, you know, some professional skill, you know, whether it's a physical movement or, you know, a cognitive skill, something you think about, or just all the things that we do for fun.

Starting point is 00:21:22 What is the order of magnitude that we can expect, the learning curve to take for a wide variety of both cognitive and motor skills? And so what I found through my own research and my own experimentation, because this is not a theoretical exercise for me, like I do this stuff all the time, is what order of magnitude

Starting point is 00:21:40 we're talking about here? And I always found that hours zero to four or five are the frustration barrier. Like that's the worst part of the whole process. You're just frustrated, you can't do it, you know, you can't do it. Something starts to change between hours four and six, where you start to see yourself being able to perform in a way that you've never been able to perform before. And that's where things start to see yourself being able to perform in a way that you've never been able to perform before. And that's where things start to get really interesting. And then by, and there's some variation here, but between hours 10 to 20, for me, two things happen.

Starting point is 00:22:18 One is that you know you're a lot more competent now than you were when you, like the improvement is night and day clear. And that's also where I find the frustration really to a great extent goes away. So continuing to practice after that point is way easier than it was at the beginning. Like you've reached a basic level of competence. You know what you're doing. You're no longer so confused. You're in a place where you're still making mistakes,

Starting point is 00:22:48 but you also know enough about what you're doing that you can notice when you make a mistake and then correct it. And it's that part of the process, like having a certain level of skill, having a lack of frustration and being able to self-correct as you practice, that's what gets you from

Starting point is 00:23:05 pretty good to really good over a longer period of time. But it's that early critical period that really makes or breaks the skill to begin with. And what are some of the skills that you personally have learned using this method? Yeah, so for the book, I did six, and it was a combination of both cognitive mental skills and physical motor skills. On the professional side, I came out of college thinking that programming was the most boring thing on the face of the earth and why would people spend their time tracking down weird semicolons in the midst of like crazy code. And it wasn't until I had actual business problems

Starting point is 00:23:47 that I could solve by writing a computer program to do the thing that I wanted to do that I really became interested in. Yeah, I wanna figure out how to do this. I have written now four web applications that are being used in a day-to-day business context with profit and loss responsibility. And like I'm running my business on code that I wrote

Starting point is 00:24:11 and I learned how to write that code in the process of researching the first 20 hours. So it's something that even, so I think the first 20 hours came out in 2013. And so eight years later, I'm still doing it. I'm still getting better at it. And I can do things now that I wasn't capable of eight years ago, because I started the process in a really fundamentally useful way. There are, I learned how to play the ukulele just for fun, which is still fantastic. I don't practice anywhere near as much as I would like to,

Starting point is 00:24:48 but all of the things that I learned how to do in the process of researching the first 20 hours, I am better than that level of capability, even with intermittent practice over a very long period of time. So I think that's the thing about this particular project that I really enjoyed. It's universally applicable, doesn't matter what you want to learn or what level of skill you're aiming for. It is a useful process that will start you out on the right foot. You can apply it to anything. And then being able to do that, like, this is what life is made of, like being

Starting point is 00:25:27 able to figure out how to do the things that are important and valuable and interesting to you, it's great. So I'm very happy that the framework has helped a lot of people learn things that are important and useful for them, and that they're able to start the process in a way that's likely to get really good results and help them achieve whatever it is that's important. And that's, I just find that awesome. We'll be right back after a quick break from our sponsors. You hear that sound, young and profitors?

Starting point is 00:26:03 You should know that sound by now, but in case you don't, that's the sound of another sale on Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform that's revolutionizing millions of businesses worldwide. Whether you sell edgy t-shirts or offer an educational course like me, Shopify simplifies selling online and in person so you can focus on successfully growing your business. Shopify is packed with industry-leading tools that are ready to ignite your growth, giving you complete control over your business and brand, without having to learn any new skills in design or code.

Starting point is 00:26:34 And Shopify grows with you no matter how big your business gets. Thanks to an endless list of integrations and third-party apps, anything you can think of from on-demand printing to accounting to chatbots, Shopify has everything you need to revolutionize your business. If you're a regular listener, you probably know that I use Shopify to sell my LinkedIn secrets masterclass. Setting up my Shopify store just took me a few days. I didn't have to worry about my website and how I was going to

Starting point is 00:27:00 collect payments and how I was going to trigger abandoned cart emails and all these things that Shopify does for me with just the click of a button, even setting up my chat bot was just a click of a button. It was so easy to do. Like I said, I just took a couple of days. And so it just allowed me to focus on my actual product and making sure my LinkedIn masterclass was the best it could be,

Starting point is 00:27:22 and I was able to focus on my marketing. So Shopify really, really helped me make sure that my Masterclass was going to be a success right off the bat, and enabled focus. And focus is everything when it comes to entrepreneurship. With Shopify single dashboard, I can manage my orders and my payments from anywhere in the world. And like I said, it's one of my favorite things to do every day is check my Shopify dashboard. It is a rush of dopamine to see all those blinking lights around the world showing me where everybody is logging on on the site.

Starting point is 00:27:53 I love it. I highly recommend it. Shopify is a platform that I use every single day and it can take your business to the next level. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopfly.com-profiting. Again, go to shopfly.com-profiting all lowercase to take your business to the next level today. Again, that shopfly.com-profiting shopfly.com-profiting all lowercase. This is possibility powered by shopify.

Starting point is 00:28:19 Yeah, bam. If you're ready to take your business to new heights, break through to the six or seven-figure mark or learn from the world's most successful people, look no further because Yeah, fam. If you're ready to take your business to new heights, break through to the 6 or 7 figure mark or learn from the world's most successful people, look no further because the Kelly Roach show has got you covered. Kelly Roach is a best-selling author, a top-ranked podcast host, and an extremely talented marketer. She's the owner of NotOne, but 6th-thriving companies, and now she's ready to share her knowledge and experience with you on the Kelly Roach show.

Starting point is 00:28:44 Kelly is an inspirational entrepreneur and I highly respect her. She's been a guest on YAP. She was a former social client. She's a podcast client. And I remember when she came on Young and Profiting and she talked about her conviction marketing framework, it was like mind blowing to me. I remember immediately implementing what she taught me in the interview in my company and the marketing efforts that we were doing and as a marketer I really really respect all Kelly has done all Kelly has built in the corporate world Kelly secured seven promotions in just eight years, but she didn't just stop there. She was working in I to five and at the same time she built her eight figure company as a side hustle and eventually took it and made it her full-time hustle. And her strategic business goals led her to win the prestigious Inc. 500 award for the fastest

Starting point is 00:29:30 growing business in the United States. She's built an empire, she's earned a life-changing wealth. And on top of all that, she maintains a happy marriage and a healthy home life. On the Kelly Road Show, you'll learn that it's possible to have it all. Tune into the Kelly Road Show as she unveils her secrets for growing your business. It doesn't matter if you're just starting out in your career or if you're already a seasoned entrepreneur. In each episode, Kelly shares the truth about what it takes to create rapid, exponential growth. Unlock your potential, unleash your success, and start living your dream life today.

Starting point is 00:30:00 Tune into the Kelly Road Show available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, Yap fam. As you may know, I've been a full-time entrepreneur for three years now. Yap media blew up so fast. It was really hard to keep everything under control, but things have settled a bit and I'm really focused on revamping

Starting point is 00:30:20 and improving our company culture. I have 16 employees, so it's a lot of people to try to rally and motivate. And I recently had bestselling author Kim Scott on the show. And after previewing her content in our conversation, I just knew I had to take her class on masterclass, tackle the hard conversations with Radical Cander to really absorb all she has to offer. And now I'm using her radical candor method every day, with my team to give in solicit feedback,

Starting point is 00:30:47 to cultivate a more inclusive culture, and to empower them with my honesty. And I can see my team feeling more motivated and energized already. They are really receptive to this framework, and I'm so happy because I really needed this class. With masterclass, you can learn from the best to become your best anytime

Starting point is 00:31:05 anywhere and at your own pace. And we all know that profiting in life doesn't just mean thriving in business. With masterclass, you can brush up on your art skills or your cooking skills or even your modeling skills. With over 180 classes from a range of world class instructors, that thing you've always wanted to do better is just a few clicks away. On Masterclass you'll find courses from many app-a-all star guests like Chris Voss and Daniel Pink. I've been taking their sales and negotiation classes and I've been feeling like a real shark lately. I've totally leveled up my sales skills. How much would it cost you to take a one-on-one class from the world's best. A lot. But with Masterclass

Starting point is 00:31:45 annual memberships, it just cost you $10 a month. I have to say the most surprising thing about Masterclass since I started this incredible journey on the platform is the value. For the quality of classes, instructors, the platform itself is beautiful, the videos are super high quality, You can't beat it. Gain new skills and as little as 10 minutes on your phone, your computer, tablet, smart TV, and my personal favorite way to learn is their audio mode to listen on the go. That way, I can multitask while I learn. Get unlimited access to every class and right now, as the app listener, you can get 15% off when you go to masterclass.com slash profiting.

Starting point is 00:32:24 That's masterclass.com slash profiting for 15% off when you go to masterclass.com-profiting. That's masterclass.com-profiting for 15% off an annual membership. Masterclass.com-profiting. And this is just so fascinating. And to your point, like skills are the foundation of everything. Skills are how you can demand a high salary. Skills are how you can start a business and create a product or a service and have the expertise to do so. Like skills are everything, especially for young people. Like learning is everything. Getting new skills. I always talk about this. I'm always talking about skill stacking, getting experience, learning new things.

Starting point is 00:32:59 So I think this is really relevant to my audience. Can you go into the four steps of rapid skill acquisition? Yeah, so the best way of thinking about it, and I'm a big fan of checklists or reminding yourself to do certain things. And I since expanded it, so there was a second addition to the first 20 hours that makes it five steps or adds a step zero, which is probably the more accurate way to put it. The first thing is just to decide what you want to be able to do.

Starting point is 00:33:29 And that sounds so common sense. And yet, in the years since I've published the first edition of the first 20 hours, that's the step where most people get stuck. And so there's a lot of, when you're thinking about learning something that you want to be able to do, there's a lot of very general, very abstract thinking that goes on. And I usually frame it in the context of languages. So like, I want to be able to speak Italian.

Starting point is 00:33:57 That's a really broad goal. That doesn't really give you very much to hold on to at the beginning. So the bigger, the more abstract, the less specific and concrete the thing that you want to be able to do is, the harder it is to get started because the whole thing feels big and overwhelming. And so the first thing to do is just decide specifically, like, what do you want to be able to do? What does that look like?

Starting point is 00:34:24 How do you want to be able to do? What does that look like? How do you know? Is it, can you define for yourself like knowing when you've gotten there or when you're getting to that level of skill that you desire? And the more specific and concrete you are in that, the better. From there, you can take that and break it down into much smaller parts.

Starting point is 00:34:43 So this is the step of deconstructing the skill, taking this really big thing and break it down into much smaller parts. So this is the step of deconstructing the skill, taking this really big thing and making it a series of small things. The classic example is that many skills are actually bundles of smaller sub-skills that you're doing together. So think of a classic mastery-ish sort of game, like golf, right? Golf is not one thing. Golf is a collection of lots of different things that you happen to do in some order during the context of a game, but driving off the tee and putting on the green to very, very different movements, skills, abilities, being able to perform in

Starting point is 00:35:26 those situations. And so for a lot of the things that we want to do, just thinking through like, am I doing one specific thing over and over and over again, or are there subparts to this that I could just focus on, just maybe a smaller piece of the puzzle for a little bit. Get good at that. And then the way that you can use that is some of those sub-skills are used way more often than others. And so the most efficient effective thing to do is you practice the sub-skills that you're going to be using the

Starting point is 00:35:58 most first, because that's going to give you the best improvement for the global skill. So it just takes a little bit of research, and that's going to give you the best improvement for the global scale. So it just takes a little bit of research and that's step three. And so you don't want to do too much research. Too much research is a subtle form of procrastination. And this is a struggle for me. I do research. It's easy to get stuck here.

Starting point is 00:36:21 But really, just a handful of hours with a book, with a video, with a coach, with some sort of information that can help you identify, like, what are those important things and focus on those first? That's how you make the early hours of practice as effective and efficient as you possibly can. Yeah. And I think in your TED Talk, you gave an example of how you learned a ukulele, and there was like four or five main chords

Starting point is 00:36:50 for like every single song. And like that's the kind of stuff that you need to discover before you dive in. So you're not learning every single possible thing. You're focusing on the things that are gonna give you the most reward and gonna kind of level you up as quickly as possible. So just wanted to call that out.

Starting point is 00:37:04 Exactly. Yeah, yeah. No, and there's there are related ideas here. So it's like a lot of people talk about the 80, 20 principle or the critical few. Like, you know, in anything that there's a small bundle of things that are going to be most important or use the most, focus on those first.

Starting point is 00:37:22 Language is a brilliant example of this. There's a pattern called Zip Slaw, ZIPF, if you want to look it up on Wikipedia. And it basically says that the vast majority of usage of a language is concentrated in about 100 words. And so if you're learning a new language, like it would make sense. Learn those words first.

Starting point is 00:37:44 You're going to be using them the most and understanding and being able to pick those up. That's going to be very useful very quickly. And so all skills exhibit that to a greater or lesser extent. So just a little bit of research can help you get there. In the same way, removing barriers to practice, this is step four, is really important because we live in a very distracting world with lots of things going on. If you're running a business and you're trying to learn a business skill, how do you fit that in in the context of meetings and email and projects

Starting point is 00:38:18 and deadlines and all of these things? If you're learning something for fun, you have family and social commitments, and you're working all of these things that are taking time away. And so the more you can set aside some dedicated time, put away your phone, block the internet if you have to, just make it as easy as possible to practice the thing you've decided that's important, and as difficult as possible to do anything aside from practicing what you've decided is important. That's going to help. And then the last part is where the title, the first 20 hours, comes from. And it's the most important psychological part, which is pre-committing to 20 hours of focused practice. And the pre-commitment is the thing that does

Starting point is 00:39:07 the work. So you can say, okay, if I'm going to start this at all, if this is important to me, I'm going to put at least 20 hours of practice into this. If I'm terrible, I'm going to be terrible for 20 hours. If I hate it, I'm going to hate it for 20 hours. And if I get to the 20-hour mark, and I'm not good and I'm not enjoying myself and I would rather do something else, I have full permission to do something else after I get to that point. But I'm not going to quit until I get to that point. And so this is helpful for two reasons, I think. until I get to that point. And so this is helpful for two reasons, I think.

Starting point is 00:39:44 The first is it's a good reality check because if you're not willing to invest at least this amount of time and energy into it, you're probably not going to make a lot of progress regardless. So it's kind of like a qualification, a filter. Like, you know, have a minimum amount of seriousness to this before you get started. But then the other part is this is how you overcome the frustration barrier.

Starting point is 00:40:10 It's like, yep, I know it's going to be hard and I'm committing to the hard part and it's going to be fine. And I am going to defer my judgment on my own skill level until later. So for now, I'm just going to focus on the practice. When I get to the 20-hour mark, that's when I'll decide whether or not I want to continue this. Okay, now let's get into your third book. Just give us a high-level overview because we don't have too much time. But what is how to fight a Hydra about? How to fight a Hydra came out of two things. One is that, I don't know if you've ever had a project where, once you get into it, it just feels way more complex and like things are happening, issues are

Starting point is 00:40:53 popping up out of nowhere. You'll fight a fire in one area only to have like three more fires, pop up in different. So I was reading The War of Art by Stephen Pressfield, which is an amazing book. And I really liked. So he was talking about this idea of resistance, right? Like knowing what you need to do and just having a really hard time getting to the point of actually doing it. And so he personified the problem. He calls it resistance with a capital R.

Starting point is 00:41:25 And he talks about resistance as if it's a thing. And it's a really interesting way of framing the problem that leads to some really interesting insights. And so I started was playing around with that idea. And the image, I've been a fan of science fiction and fantasy stories for a very long time, is like these problems are hydras. It's the monster that has six or seven different heads, and when you lap one off, two more grow back, you can do the same thing.

Starting point is 00:42:00 You can give an analogy to this very common problem. And then with all of the research around how to deal with these problems of uncertainty, well, you can show someone responding skillfully to a difficult situation. You don't necessarily have to tell them about the psychological studies. You can convey that information in a different way. So how to fight a Hydra was my first fiction book that did not start as a fiction book. It kind of evolved into this story over time. And it's a quick read.

Starting point is 00:42:34 You can read it in less than an hour. And so it's this really short, interesting story of a person who decides to go hunting one of these big scary monsters knows it's going to be hard from the beginning, doesn't have social support in doing it, doesn't have the skills required to get to the end. Has no idea how they're going to accomplish it, they just know that they have to for some reason. And then you get to see the protagonist of the story. Use some of these very skillful psychological ways

Starting point is 00:43:12 of orienting yourself and dealing with things that happen in the world, all the way to the end, which I won't spoil. And then the afterward is essentially explaining like, here are the origins of a lot of the things that the protagonist does. Here's where this comes from. Here's the research that's supporting it. So it was an interesting project that developed

Starting point is 00:43:36 in a way that I did not expect, but I enjoyed writing, how to fight a hydra immensely. And it was a really fun project to do. It sounds super interesting. And judging by your first two books, I'm sure that one's also very, provides a lot of value for people who are reading it. So the last question I ask, oh my guess,

Starting point is 00:43:58 is what is your secret to profiting in life? My secret to profiting in life, I think is spending a lot of time being very clear about what I want and what I don't want. That sounds simpler than it is in practice, but I think that we all have a limited amount of time and energy and capacity. And there are certain things that kind of sound good in the moment, but end up being distractions. And there are other things that sound really difficult or really frustrating that end up

Starting point is 00:44:38 being the core of what it is for us to live a fulfilling life, whatever that definition is for you. And so I think spending a little bit more time in that headspace, like, what do I want right now? And why do I want those things? What am I doing to get those things? And what am I ignoring because it's just not important enough for me? The more you have a very clear image of that in your mind, and the more that you update that over time, because we change as people, like our situation changes, our values change, our priorities change, like keeping really up on

Starting point is 00:45:18 like what you're doing and why in this moment right now in your context, the more you do that, the better decisions you'll make, and the more effective you'll be at doing the things that are necessary to move you in the direction you want to go. I love that advice. I think that's great advice. And where can our listeners go to learn more about you and everything that you do?

Starting point is 00:45:38 Yeah. So the best central place to find me is at joshcoffman.net. You can find links to all of my books and my most recent research and writing there. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. It was so valuable. Absolutely. It's so fun to talk.

Starting point is 00:45:55 And I am looking forward to seeing the results of your new YouTube camera. I'll follow up in a couple of weeks to see how it goes. Thank you. And you're going to help me because now I'm not as scared. So thank you so much. Thank you. Are you looking for ways to be happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Ruben, the number one best-selling author of the Happiness Project. And every week, we share ideas and practical solutions on the Happier with Gretchen Ruben

Starting point is 00:46:35 Podcast. My co-host and happiness guinea pig is my sister Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Kraft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore fresh insights from cutting-edge science, ancient wisdom, pop culture, and our own experiences about cultivating happiness and good habits. Every week we offer a try this at home tip you can use to boost your happiness

Starting point is 00:46:57 without spending a lot of time, energy, or money. Suggestions such as, follow the one-minute rule. Choose a one-word theme for for the year or design your summer. We also feature segments like Know Yourself Better where we discuss questions like, are you an over buyer or an under buyer? Morning person or night person, abundance lever or simplicity lever?

Starting point is 00:47:16 And every episode includes a happiness hack, a quick easy shortcut to more happiness. Listen and follow the podcast, Happier with Gretchen Rubin. Strike! Tell me something I don't know on. more happy. Listen and follow the podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin. Keep your eye on the ball. Just like you can keep an eye on your customized down and monthly car payments. I can customize those. He's out and on his way to finance his next car with Carvana. Visit Carvana.com or download the app to get pre-qualified today. We'll drive you happy at Carvana.

Young and Profiting with Hala Taha - YAPClassic: Josh Kaufman Teaches How to Acquire Any Skill in Just 20 Hours

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.