2 Bears, 1 Cave with Tom Segura & Bert Kreischer - The Daily Stoic w/ Ryan Holiday | 2 Bears, 1 Cave Ep. 174

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

SPONSORS:- Head to https://ShipStation.com and use code: BEARS to sign up for your FREE 60-day trial.Welcome to another episode of 2 Bears 1 Cave with Tom Segura and Bert Kreischer! Today, Ryan Holiday fills in as a guest bear! Ryan Holiday is the best-selling author of "Trust Me, I'm Lying", "The Obstacle is The Way", and other famous books. Tom and Ryan discuss the origins of philosophy, the four cardinal virtues, and their significance to obtaining, and maintaining, a prosperous lifestyle. They relive their days as struggling artists and share their mutual, yet individual experiences in becoming famous for their respective art.https://tomsegura.com/tourhttps://www.bertbertbert.com/tourhttps://store.ymhstudios.com/

Unlike when Tarantino was here, I actually read your stuff. You literally walks with a limped his whole life because his master just broke his leg for fun. So if you have this stuff go to your house, that's the other problem. You know what, I'm gonna start with these books. Guys, give me these fucking books. Welcome to another episode of Two Bears One Cave. And for the second time ever, we have a smart person in the studio. You might know him as the daily stoic put your hands together for Ryan Holiday, everybody. It's your number two seconds, Marcus.

Who's number one? Hebron was, it was Mark guy number two, seconds Marcus. Who's number one? Huberman was, it was her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smart guy. Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course. Um, unlike, uh, I feel like he's much more of a bear than I am.

I feel like I'm in a bear. He's a bear. He totally is a bear. Yeah, but I mean, you know, we can grow that beard, huh? I actually cannot. You can't? Dude, like this dude, have Huberman say you some supplements. If, if I, if I didn't shave for like a month, I would get like probably what you

get like a day. Really? It just doesn't happen. I remember I was shaving pretty early. Yeah. And a friend's dad was like, how often do you shave? And then I'm like 16, 17. I was like, yeah, I mean pretty odd.

Like I guess almost every day. And it comes in pretty full. And I was like, yeah, I was feeling pretty good. And he goes, yeah, you're probably done full. And I was like, yeah, I was feeling pretty good. And he goes, yeah, you're probably done growing. I was like, what? You're not going to grow anymore. I was like, what? Really? I was like, oh, fuck, I'm done growing. I thought I was just going to keep getting, I was like, oh, no, the fucking effect. Someone told me that, like, being a runner as like when you're in your teens, like it fucks with your hormones in a weird way. You're something. You cross country? Yeah, I did. I, like it fucks with your hormones in a weird way. Or something, but you cross country.

Yeah, I did. I could see it. So run. Yeah, yeah. How often? Every day. Every day? Yeah.

Long distances or? Long-ish, like four, five, six, something like that, usually. Okay. Yeah, I've been, I've been started running more. In Austin? In Austin, yeah. Where do you run? I ran at Barton Creek.

There was a trail that goes like all the way around this. I just did it the day before yesterday. running more. In Austin? In Austin, yeah. Where do you run? I ran at Barton Creek. There's a trail that goes all the way around this. I just did it the day before yesterday. I played ball, but the day before I did the run. The Town Lake Trail is one of the best trails in the country. Really? Yeah, it's 10. So, you know, Town Lake, like in the center of Austin, right?

That's it. There's a 10 mile loop. That's it. And none of its pay. It's all manicured, like, crushed granite, 10 miles. So you can do all these different iterations. And then there's four or five bridges, so you can do different, you don't have to do the same thing every day. I haven't done it in so long.

And the only, most of the cardio I've been doing is indoors. In gyms, I do a Peloton bike and try and when I was in New Zealand, we did an outdoor run. I was like, man, this is so much better. In all ways. What you see, the feeling, the running is actually more challenging, but more rewarding. I liked it so, so much more. Yeah, I hated it when I was a kid. And then as soon as I went out in college, I felt back in love with it. And then I've basically done, so much more. Yeah, I hated it when I was a kid and then as soon as I went I was in college I fell back in love with it and then I've basically done it every day since. That's awesome.

Yeah. It's almost like you have a sense of discipline. Yeah. For me, the discipline is actually more like not doing it. Like if I'm sick or tired or the weather's bad. Yes. And I have to think about it. Like I try to take my kids for this walk at every morning.

And like this morning it was cold and they were unhappy. And I have to be like, do I want to be the person that forces my kids to do shit that they hate? Or can I be like, this is a made up thing? For me being disciplined about discipline is actually the harder. I understand that.

I mean, I think that discipline now for me with physical things is actually going, all right. That is something that you should listen to, all right, that is something you should listen to that feeling, that tweak. Instead of going, no, you push through, it's actually no dial it back. And listen to that because if you don't, it can really go. Yeah, it's like, do you want to miss one day because you're late hurts? Or do you want to miss like six months because you tore something?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, unlike when Tarantino was here, I actually read your stuff and I look, man, I fucking read it later. I get it, all right? You went to the movies with a black guy. Anyway. I, okay, so first I want to tell you how I discovered you. Like, this whole thing is, there's so many things I want to talk about, but a few years ago, this is how I actually first landed on any of your stuff.

I forget what it was. It was a few years ago and I had expressed like some struggle, you know, something that was weighing on my mind to somebody and they sent me a link to the Daily Stoic Instagram page. And they go, do you follow this page? And I was like, no. And they go, oh, they post great stuff like this.

And it was a quote. Yeah. And it was just one of those things where it's like, it's just a moment where you read the quote and you're like, oh yeah, like it was a bit of wisdom that I took in. And I was like, oh, that's a really good one. So I hit follow and you know,

and I would, you know, scroll as we all do and I would land on those sometimes and I was like, oh, that's a really good one. And I didn't even realize that there's a person attached to it. And I just thought it was, you know, somebody posting that stuff. And then eventually I saw your page and I was like, oh, and I didn't put together. I was like, oh, that's that guy. Okay. And I started following you.

And, you know, I think that, like most pages, I will say are a, a nonsense. It's just, you have one of the few public pages on Instagram where I would say, you know, when you, when you read, when you post something, whether it's a quote or a video, you say something, even if it's a brief moment, you provide kind of a brief moment of calmness to me, right, like where I go.

And I think you probably do for a lot of people where they go, this is a nice, this is a, in all the chaos and everything that's going on in our lives in our world, there's a moment where you digest something that you've said or our lives in our world, there's a moment where you digest something that you've said or shared and somebody goes like, oh yeah, and even, and look, you might go right back

to your chaos, but it is nice to have these brief moments where you kind of feel like, oh, yeah, step back, slow down, or process or perspective, a different perspective, and you go, oh yeah. And that's how I first came to know you. So it's one of the very few positive Instagram stories out there. It's so funny. It is weird because I think people think philosophy is this like thing you like study in college or it's this thing that you you do like once like you have done it.

Sure. As opposed to this thing that you practice, or that's like an ongoing thing. Christina, she's a philosophy major, yeah. Yeah. But I think people tend to think of, like people who don't actually have familiarity with philosophy, think it's either this, like academic discipline, this theoretical thing, or it's a thing that you have studied

in the way that's like I studied physical therapy, or in some thing, as opposed to this ongoing pursuit. Yes. And there's this, there's this one interesting letter from Seneka where he's writing to his friend and he's like 2000 years ago. And he's basically saying like, he's like, I'll give you a quote, you give me a quote. And so like they're doing it.

Imagine how difficult it would have been to write a letter to deliver a letter. They're doing the same thing 2000 years ago, which is like, I'll give you a quote that's helpful, you give me a quote that's helpful. And he's like, this is what it is. It's like if we get one thing per day that makes this a little bit better that we think about for two minutes,

he's like, that adds up. And that's kind of what the daily idea of the daily stilic is supposed to be, which I kind of fell into totally back. Would you summarize stilicism as such? Yeah, I mean, so it's a philosophy, it starts about 2,500 years ago, and it's built around this idea that we don't control what happens, we control how we respond to what happens, and that everything, all of those responses should be towards these

sort of four virtues, which are courage, temperance, or self-discipline, justice, and wisdom. And so of all the philosophies, it's less this sort of systemic or stomatic explanation of the universe, and more like this operating system for being like both a good person in the world, but also like a person who's able to survive a shitty fucked up complicated, like unpredictable world. Has that, has being, I mean, I would consider you, you know, an expert in this field. Has that helped you survive, you know, hardships and tough.

Yeah, I mean, look, my hardships are privileged compared to someone who doesn't have any arms or legs or, of course, born and, you know, sub-sare and friends. But everybody goes through something. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we're like, we're all, we all have the same limited amount of control over the world. Totally. And it really is like our, you know, depending on how you want to describe it, it's our mindset

and our mind frame, our perspective, our view of things that helps you either fall apart or persevere and push through. You have amazing examples of a lot of this in the book. Well, one of the cool things about Sos and Sos and Sos and Seneca, there's the big three in Sos and it's Seneca, Epictetus and Mark Serelius. And Mark is real, they actually form like kind of an interesting spectrum. So on the one end, you have Epictetus, who's a slave.

He's like, and this is a slave in Rome, like the shittiest place you could be a slave. He literally walks through the limped his whole life because his master just broke his leg for fun. So he's just has like, you know life as you can get. He wins his freedom at like 30 and then he's promptly exiled. So like all the things that all the bad things that can happen to a person happen at Petitus, he's like one end of Stoicism and then the other end, there's Marcus Realis

who's not even like born prince, like Prince Charles. He's just born this regular kid, his dad dies, and then the emperor goes, I think you should be my heir. So he's just chosen, like just a random kid, basically, it's chosen to be groomed, to be the most powerful, richest, most famous person in the world. It's as far as extremans of the spectrum, it's like everything that could go wrong, everything that could go wrong. Is it really just chosen by the emperor

because of the his way of being as, you know, his personal temperance at that age? I mean, we don't know the exact age that he sort of comes into the circle, but basically, Hadrian is the emperor. He's probably gay, doesn't have any kids. And he, I think, comes up with the idea that like, I could mold someone from scratch to be

what it takes to be emperor. And so he probably sees something promising in him and then says like, I wanna train him to do this thing. And the interesting thing is he realizes that it's an impossible thing to put on a person that young. So he adopts this guy named Antoninus, who's like in his late 50s, on the condition that he adopt Marcus, really.

So they set in motion this chain where, when Hadrian dies, Antoninus will be emperor and then when Antoninus dies, Marcus will be emperor. And he probably thought, you know, Antoninus will rule for five years and then Marcus will become emperor like in his 20s or something. And Antoninus rules for 19 years.

And so Marcus becomes emperor like late 30s, early 40s. Which is a good thing. It works out totally. And they actually got along. Yeah. Like even though they had none of them had any blood relation to each other. And they could have seen each other as rivals or whatever. Like, like Antoninus actually decides I'm going to help my successor be successful. And then Marcus really says like, I'm going to actually listen to the person who wants to teach me. And they have this like amazing never before, never again, like

transition of power. Yeah, we don't really remark. We don't really see that these days. No, no, no, totally different. And like even even when there's much lower stakes, you know what I mean? That Tim Cook takes over for Steve Jobs, you're like, oh, they didn't fucking hate each other, good for them. And the stakes are like, they couldn't kill each other, they couldn't get rid of their relatives. The emperor had unlimited power. But whoever they wanted to death, they controlled the largest empire in the world, the largest army in the world, like the stakes are enormous. And, you know, it's supposed

to corrupt absolutely. And then there's like three exceptions in a row. It's very weird. He had that's very strange that you would be able to have to wield that much power and not become animal. I mean, it speaks to probably how grounded and in some way the guys must have been, or the really wanted to rule for the betterment of an entire society, which yeah. Everybody who runs for office sells that speech. Yes.

Everybody. They all are like, I just care about this. And then you're always disappointed in them. Yes. Well, have you read Robert Carrows' books? No. He's been writing about Lyndon Johnson since basically Lyndon Johnson died. Just about Johnson?

Yeah, he's on book five. About Lyndon Johnson? Which you would think would be so boring. It's probably the greatest biography of biography he's ever written. Really? Yeah. And it's the most, it's probably the greatest biographer series of biographies ever written. Really? Yeah. And it's incredible. You should definitely read it.

I'm sure they're good audiobooks too. He's like in his 80s now. He's probably the greatest biographer of all time. He shows up every day, talk about discipline. He's still in his 80s or 90s. He shows up every day in a suit and he goes to his office and he writes long-hand and then his wife types them up. They're this like riding team, and working together for every unit.

That's pretty cute. But Johnson's from the Hill Country here in Texas. Yes, so like, he's been there. I've been to that, the town that he's from. Johnson City? Yeah, because like, and then there's signs about it everywhere. And you can, I like how it was white house. I was searching for the name and they're like,

Johnson City, dipshit. You can see there's like, they're called it the Western White House, or the White House on the Browses. You can go, but anyways, Karo like lived here for a long time, just to study Johnson and the libraries here. Anyways, Johnson, Karo's talking about Johnson and he goes, power doesn't corrupt, that's too simple. He says power reveals. That's, and so it's really like, if you're a shitty person, power doesn't corrupt, that's too simple. He says power reveals.

That's, and so it's really like, if you're a shitty person, power's gonna make you worse. Yes. And if you're a good person, it could make you better. You could do good things with it. People always say a similar thing about wealth that it'll kind of show who the person really is. If they become extraordinarily wealthy,

that I could, the guy guys a piece of shit, you're gonna find out. Right. It's like, maybe I would've broken my slaves' leg for fun, just so you know. I would've done that 100%. That sounds like too good at time. Sorry.

No, no. So, Karah's point about Johnson is like, Johnson is basically like your average Southern racist politician more or less corrupt, like totally into it for himself. So you would think that when he finally gets the thing he wanted more than anything, he would have been awful. And like he passes the civil rights amendment, the voting rights acts, like he actually, like his point is that Johnson gets power and like in many ways actually is better for it.

But Marcus is an interesting example because he has power that Lyndon Johnson couldn't even dream of. Incredible power. And there's a cool passage in meditations where he says, like, be careful of being Caesarified, like Caesar, and he says, don't be stained purple as the emperor's cloak is purple. And his point is like, don't be corrupted by power. And he does like a pretty good job of not doing. How are these guys, like the three of them, able to have this perspective? It's like, it's almost hard to wrap your,

especially in that time. And with that, like you're saying, that level of God-like power, I don't understand how they were able to hold back. It's, yeah, it's pretty amazing. I mean, you could argue it's the philosophy, right? That's like the one thing they all have in common. Sure.

And Marcus, it's like incredible. Marcus is given by his philosophy teacher, like a 25. He's given a copy of Epic Titus' lecture notes. Either his professor, or either his teacher had attended them or he'd gotten a copy. And so in his meditation, the Marcus is like quoting Epic Titus all the time. So you have this like powerless person influencing this very powerful person. And yeah, maybe

it's sort of, it's like a set of guardrails or a set of principles to act by and he does a good job of it. And then he stuck to it, though. Oh, yeah. That's one thing to be like, I'm going to, I'm going to hold to this, but then to actually have the position. Yes. And still stick to your philosophy. It's a different thing. Or to have it for a and still stick to your philosophy. It's a different thing. Or to have it for a long time, right? Like it's like you did it for like Nero who's the other interesting emperor here

because I talked about Seneca. Seneca is a philosophy teacher and a politician and he gets this job helping this kid who's supposed to be emperor in the future. And that kid is a Neuro. And just like people who don't know Roman history, like he sucked, right? Like that, you just know that name is like a shitty guy.

So Seneca's job was to teach this kid, he teaches them all the philosophy and it doesn't work, it doesn't stick, he doesn't listen. But there's the first five years of Neuro's reign are considered by historians to be pretty good. Like he gets good marks. And then the wheels come off. So it's like, you know, someone's, someone's successful or talented and it's like they

have these habits, they have like people around, you know, it's like you can, you can withstand the sort of warping effects of wealth or privilege or power for so long, and then as the limitations fall away, then who you are is revealed. So I think it's not just Marcus was emperor and didn't, wasn't shitty at the beginning, but they're like 15 years in. That's the more impressive thing. It's the longevity of it, to be consistent for a long time is, it's like what I think that impresses you the most. I think in entertainment,

so when you see somebody, I didn't appreciate it when I was a kid, but the older I get and you're like, this person's been knocking it out of the park for like 40 years. Yes, yes. Like as a singer or an actor, you're like,

God damn, that really is impressive. Well, because you know, like, they could be coasting and like, there's nothing, no one has a gun to your head insisting that you maintain a quality. No, of course. It's completely. It's opposite. It's completely up to you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, to find a drive, to push, to, like, you know, and you talk about a couple authors, you know, that just they're about doing the work. And that's ultimately what has to be the thing that you care about to deliver good work. I mean, you see it in comedy, there's a bunch of examples of like great comedians who like, it's just, it's decades long. We're like, they're not distracted by it, they're just like about, and about, I think with writing. By the way, I can't believe how much you've turned out and you're fucking 35.

I mean, if I hadn't seen you, I'd be like, I don't know, this guy's in his 60s. I don't know. He's like an old wise guy. I feel very old. I had a cut. I mean, my first book came out as 24. So I have a little bit of head start, but.

Now, is it true? Because you know we produce, Dr. Drew after dark here, that Dr. Drew introduced you to stoicism? Yeah. Tell me, can we hear this? Yeah. I was in college. I went to Riverside and something I've wanted. And I was writing for the college newspaper and I got this call, maybe as a message in

my inbox. Anyways, I got invited to this thing that Trojan condoms was putting on. Nice. It was like a conference or something for a college journalist. And so I went, I was like, I get to go to Hollywood and there have been before they put it up in this hotel. And then we went down and it was like, there was a talk and then like some Q and A or something. And the person talking was Dr. Drew.

It's sort of been like, doesn't five maybe? Two and six. So still like kind of the height talking was Dr. Drew. This would have been like, doesn't five, maybe, two on the six. So still like kind of the height of love line, and which I had grown up listening to in my room every night. And I was as a huge fan, but and I knew Dr. Drew was like really smart and I don't think I'd ever met any smart people in my life. Yeah, you know?

So I feel like when I work here, yeah. So I was just like, hey, like you're smart. Like what books should I read? I just went up to him after I asked him that. And he was like, I'm reading this guy, Epic Titus. And I was like, what? You know, I didn't know what that, I didn't even know how you really begin to spell that.

And so I went back to my hotel room and I typed that in. And Marcus really also came up like in the Amazon search And I'd seen the movie gladiator. So it's like I should I should start there That's more my style. Yeah, sure and yeah, that like totally changed my life and did that change? Do you then major in everything like did you I dropped out like several months later? Not his fault Yeah, but I left college and then I did a bunch of other stuff always with the intention of coming back to writing. To writing. That's what I wanted to say.

Were you apprentice for Robert Green? One of the things I left college for was to be a research assistant for Robert Green. I see that you're still obviously, because I've seen you guys together, you've posted about his book, I think, today or yesterday, while you're like, we're doing our first two live events, actually, like in March, and everything in person before. He must also have a sense of, I don't know, pride or something about the fact

that you were a research guy for him and that you've developed this career that you have. Or like, he's the best. or a research guy for him and that you've developed this career that you have, or like. He's the best. It's funny because the first law in the 48 laws of power is never outshine the master. And then he talks about how people are very precious and sensitive and insecure.

And one of the other laws is do all the work and others take the credit. And he has been like an incredible, like he has opened up so many doors for me, he's been so good and is like, to me is the greatest. Like of like nonfiction, sort of self-improvement books,

I think he's the best. First off, his books have sold like a trillion copies. So many. And he's been doing it, nobody, you talk about doing it at a level, the 40 laws of power came out in 1998. And it's still like a one of those. If you pull that up on Amazon right now,

I bet it's like top 100, top 200. Not only that, it's in the Lexicon, where like, it's not a thing where people go, what is that? Like it's a rest. It's a rest. It's a part of his entire career on the Lexicon where like, it's not a thing where people go, what is that? It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk.

It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk.

It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk. It's a risk.

It's a risk. It's a risk. It's that are as long as my whole books that I've published. So we're like, we're operating in very different interests. Sure, but that's still right. Yeah, it's like, well, he showed me how to write books. So like, I think from Robert, I learned like a whole bunch of things about work ethic and I learned a whole bunch of things about he had me read all this, I learned, like that was at college for me, I was working for Robert,

but Robert also showed me like actually how you do the thing, which you can't really, like would take decades. So why have I been able to do this in such a short time? It's because I didn't have to learn literally the hardest thing there is to learn by trial and error. But which is like, how do I write this? How do you write a book? You have an idea for a book, how do you write a book? Just like if you're like, I want to be a comedian

and they were like, okay, well, here's all the steps of that process instead of like fumbling around and doing the wrong thing. Dude, I didn't know what I was doing when I wrote the book. I wrote a book. Oh, sure. And I was like, you know, I remember, so I got a deal to write the book

as the pandemic took place, right? Yeah. I either started. And so a couple of months in, you're like, you know, what I'm used to is touring. Touring is, and you never imagine a world where like touring shuts down. Sure.

Also when we're sitting there, like, yeah, there's no touring. So, maybe you'll never come back. Maybe, yeah, because every month, you'll probably be back. Yeah, because every month, they're like, it'll probably be back next month and next month, I actually it's worse. Yeah. Okay.

So they're just like, take your touring off your schedule for at least the year and you're like, what am I going to do? Yeah. So I'm working a manager at the time is like, well, why don't you, you want to write a book? And I was like, I don't know. Yeah.

So I talk to a publisher and they just say, like, well, can you send in like store, like, you know, an example of your writing. So I write a couple essays, let's say. I send these in. They're like, oh, yeah, you can definitely write a book. And I'm like, oh, okay. So we work out a deal. Okay, you got it.

And I'm like, well, what do I write? And they're like, write more of these. Yeah. And I'm like, do they have to like string together I write? And they're like, write more of these. Yeah. And I'm like, do they have to string together or something and they're like, no? And I'm like, well, I don't know what to do. And they're like, just write, man. And so I'm just writing this thing.

And I, look, I have no idea, you know, like this, this to me is a, there's a through line. There's like, you know, it all kind of, it all ties together. What I wrote is like, story about my dad, a story about this place, a story about the airport. The, you know, it just like, it doesn't all go together. But I think that's kind of a actually a good metaphor

for life, which is that you assume that like, when someone pays you money to do stuff, that they know how to do it, they're gonna tell you to do it, and that it should be pretty straightforward, how to do it. And the reality is it's like, they're paying you to figure it out. They are.

And like they have no intentions or plans or even ability to babysit you and it's like you have to figure it out. And so even on my first book when I sold it, it's like, wait, now I'm 23, 24 and I have to go do a thing that I've never done before, that I don't actually know if I can or can't do. For the most amount of money I've ever been paid to do a thing, and if I fuck it up, I won't be able to do it again.

And so the ability to sort of figure stuff out is like obviously a huge strength and not a lot of people have. But I think people assume assume if I just get discovered or if I just get my break, that's like, it's all downhill from there. And it's like, no, that's not even the start up. That's like the warm up to the start of the thing.

Just getting primed for stuff. Yeah. You have to figure out how to do all the things. You strike me as someone who probably, I don't feel like you take much time off when you're done with something. This is actually, so I'm doing this. The discipline is the second book

in a four book series. And I did the first one a year, a year, and then the third one is basically done. And it's basically done. It's basically done. What is the third one which unjustists? And how long till that is? Well, so I, it could come out in September and I made the decision for the first time I

like to push a project for a year. So I'm going to let it sit for a year basically and just to stay exactly like in the book. So you could tell that I read it. Yes, you definitely did. That's the Joyce Carroll Oat Story. I'm trying to appreciate. Yeah, so, okay, so you actually will then revisit it? I'm gonna revisit it, and I'm not gonna start the next one

right away either, which actually is taking a fair amount of restraint for me. I'm in this phase right now, so there's always this thing, and I wonder if it's similar to like what you go through where I just shot a special. It's my fifth one hour special. The turnaround time on these is usually like so usually if there's not a pandemic, you shoot it and then you go back to square one, you build an hour. Because you have to get, you have to kill all the material. All of it.

Yeah. Yeah, it's all gone. And then you start from square one. And then you build a new hour, you tour with it, and then you shoot it. Usually, this has been a two-year window for me, that whole process. Write it, tour, shoot.

And so I just shot in November. And then it's not, you know, it's like it's being edited and cut and there I'm, I have not turned in a cut. Yeah. Because I always go like, I don't want to watch it. Yeah. And like, can you please watch it? And like, I don't really feel like it. And then people like start, you don't feel like it or it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable. Yeah. It's uncomfortable. I hate watching myself to stand up, I hate listening to myself to stand up. I've, dude, sometimes there's like, my stand-up will come up on my phone and I'll fucking punch the radio. Like, I don't want to hear that shit at all. I don't want to hear my voice. But it's because it sounds different in your head. It's something about the vibrations. Tim Ferriss was telling me this, like the way you hear your voice, when it's coming out,

you hear the sound vibrates through your own school. So you have your, a sense of your voice is X, and then you hear it from an outside source, not directly coming out of your mouth. Yes. And it sounds like what it sounds like to other people, and that is super unfamiliar to you. So unfamiliar.

And like recognizable, obviously, you know it's you, but it's unfamiliar. And also, there's this discomfort of, I feel like I'm, when I hear myself just stand up, I feel like it's the equivalent of like doing standup at the dinner table for my family. I'm like, hey, how's everybody doing? I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?

It feels like I'm doing that to myself. Like I just, I can't handle it. So, but what I'm getting to is that now, okay, now I'm going to square one. It's one of the most frustrating parts is when you start over. It's become, here's the thing, it's familiar. In other words, I recognize it and I know what it is. And that helps because you go, I know I'll get through this, but there's this period where you go, I don't know if I'll ever come up with anything else again. And then I go, oh, that's what I thought last time, and that's what I thought the time before, and that's what I thought the

time before. But it's, and then you, what you get you for, yeah, is when you, all of a sudden, you just, it just starts. Yeah. You do your first new bit. And when you do a new bit, whether it's at the very beginning or even as you're touring, there's nothing like the feeling. I'm not gonna remember on tour coming up with a new bit and going to like seeing friends and not, and they were like, you look happy.

And I was like, I just fucking have a new bit. And it worked. That feeling, I think that's what actually keeps you doing it forever and ever, is that there's no feeling like it, like coming up with something, going on stage, and trying it and having it become like a solid bit. But yeah, I'm at that phase right now where I'm like, oh fuck, I gotta start all over again, you know?

Well, it's like torturous and wonderful. Yeah, it's both. Yeah. And I think for me, my solution to the torturous has always been like, as soon as you finish start the next one, as soon as you finish start the next one. And so I've been on that for basically 10 years. Yeah.

And the thinking was, first of all, I want to do it for 50 years or whatever. And so obviously that's not sustainable. You can't do it every year for 50 years, like you'll die, and you'll, or you'll wake up and you'll be like, oh, like, I don't know who my kids are because I've been doing this thing, which actually doesn't matter to me that much anymore.

And so, now, so it's weird, it requires discipline to start the next one, but then if that's the groove or the rhythm you get into, then actually it doesn't take discipline to keep in it. It's like a workaholic, which I just sort of struggle with that tendency, like a workaholic is actually, the work isn't hard for them, the work is this weird, addictive, like selfish thing. It seems like it's healthy on the outside to other people,

but it's actually the worst thing they could be doing. I completely, I have suffer from the same thing where it's like, when are you going to just enjoy life? Be not to. And be and not exactly, be and not to. So that's it, yeah, that's its own struggle. The struggle is not doing more work. That's actually, you're like, oh, I'll fall into that's it, yeah, that's its own struggle. The struggle is not doing more work. That's actually, you're like, oh, I'll fall into that. Yeah, sure, I'll do more work.

It's like when I was 15, I had to struggle to make myself be someone that works, right? And you win that battle, and then you have to reign in that impulse. I mean, you don't have to. I mean, you could be Tom Brady if you want. If you're lucky and you don't get hurt and all these other things,

but it comes at an extremely high cost. And I'm interested in being really good at what I do professionally, but also, have you heard this term art monster? Art monster? Yeah. It's like someone who basically becomes a monster in pursuit of their art.

Oh. They're so all in in the thing that they're based, there's like savage about it and it could be, it's not just how they work really hard, they could just be like, Harvey Weinstein's obviously an art monster also in a different extreme way. But where you give yourself totally over to the thing and you lose what is like sort of good and decent and normal. And I would like to be, I've got to know like some sports, some really great athletes from the books. And like, there's obviously the ones with like one the most.

I'm really interested when you meet someone who's like one a lot, and then they're like fucking normal. Yeah, and there's, you know, I mean, I'm sure you've discovered this too. There are endless stories of the greats in sports, in entertainment, in politics, or they're like, they're like, this the most famous person,

and then you just peek behind, and it's just stories of what a piece of shit. And then their whole personal life is just a disaster, and they're like, he was a drunk and abusive and neglectful, and they're just like, like, nobody's having less fun. Yeah. Nobody's life is worse than that person.

And they're like, buddy, made cool paintings. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah. To me, it's actually harder to be like world class at something and be like, pretty normal. That is definitely harder. Yeah, also one of the reasons why is it the more world class

you get, the more the world treats you differently. That's the thing about the super famous that I think The more world class you get, the more the world treats you differently. That's the thing about the super famous, that I think some of us lose sight of, is that the reason that they're weird is because everybody treats them like they're not normal. So that it takes a real effort to be like, oh, I, like, how does fucking, I don't know, Rihanna, like, when he's a lost of shoes in normal. Regular airport. Right. And then he was in a regular airport.

Right, and then somebody was like, excuse me. Yeah. Hey, like, you know, like, because that's normal. It's normal that somebody would be like, I'm in front of you, you know? Like, when everybody's just like, you're the greatest, that changes your view. Sure.

The way the world operates. Yes. And then if you do that for a really long time, you can't possibly keep your bearings. No, then your Garth Brooks, your fucking psycho, dude. So, no, I think actually, that's one of the reasons I live here and like how I live. That's a choice.

That's a deliberate choice. Yes, I mean, what made you choose here? Well, so I wrote my first book, we moved to New, my wife and I moved to New Orleans. We were like, let's like move somewhere weird That's not a major city and we liked it But it's like you you can't be a normal person in New Orleans for very long Because it's not a normal place like what other city takes a month off every year for parades and parties

It's the one it is. I would say this for people that in the United a lot of people haven't traveled You know and you go like man, if you wanna go to a place that is truly different, I mean, really stands apart. Just go there, just go and see them, like this is one of the major cities of the United States and they operate on a whole other wavelength. Yeah, it's crazy. So that was really great.

And then my first book came out and I was like, I'm a writer now, I should move to New York, I'm moved to New York, and I was like, this is awful, this is not how people should live or where I wanna live. And how people should live. Yeah, this is not good for anyone. And it is if you make $65 million a year, it's totally manageable.

Which people say in New York as though it's a normal thing to say. Yeah, yeah, they're like, songs you make more than a million a year in New York is pretty great. And it's like, yeah, that's not normal. I mean, if you're making more than a million year, great. And by the way, you're not ballin' in a New York. No, no, that's to have like an apartment with two bedrooms. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's it. You're still

renting. Yeah, that's the crazy thing. It was like people would make a million a year and they're like, I rent and you're like, you fucking don't own a place? You make a million dollars a year. No. Yeah. That's not the treadmill that I think you want to be on. If you have a choice, some people you don't, what you do, you don't have a choice. But if you have a choice, you should not do that. And so we picked Austin because Austin, I felt like, is a mix of like what a lot of great

cities in America have. Sure. And then we lived in East Austin and then we were like, we bought a goat on Cra cities in America have. Sure. And then we lived in East Austin, and then we were like, we bought a goat on Craigslist one day. So cool. Just fucking around. And then we were like,

you know what, our goat needs more space. And so we moved out to the country. That's awesome. Yes. That is so cool actually. It was nice, yeah. Yeah, I want to get a goat, didn't I? Yeah, goat.

Goat. I Had more goat I had three goats and then a pack of wild dogs Viscidated two of them whoa three months ago. It was a really worst fucking thing. Yeah on the On the ranch just packs of wild dogs. That's that's one of the things you learn to be living in the country This like people are animals. Like people just go, I don't want this dog anymore. I can't, just let it go here in the city where I live. So I'm going to drive 30 minutes out and then I'll just let it go. And then they come together and packs and they prey on animals. So that's fun.

That was shit. Yeah, yeah. So I don't have a goat to spare right now. So that's fun. That was shit. Yeah, yeah. So I don't have a goat to spare right now. So what you discovered, did you know that it was wild dog? It was still there when my wife got home. And one of the goats had locked himself in that little thing, so it survived.

And the other two goats, the one that made us move out there, it's no longer with us. Damn, man, that sucks. Yeah, it was brutal. But that is the other thing you learn out there is just like death or slash life is much less precious, because like just things die all the time. Even if you take great care of your animals,

they get eaten by dogs or your chicken gets a tad ripped off by raccoon or, you know, just whatever, just stuff dies. Stuff dies, yeah. And you're not really that different than the cow. Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, people, we don't, I mean, I definitely suffer from this.

Don't appreciate how quickly things can go. Like, yes. Like, it really is. I mean, you know, you could say that that's an example like the wild pack of dogs. But like that can happen to human beings. Sure. And so many ways. When we first moved out there, we had these geese and we'd raised one since it was like real little. Then we got some more and like it got attacked by something and it was all cut up. I took it to the vet and we spent like $500 getting it stitched up.

It's like this is our goose. And then like three weeks later, okay, totally eaten by something else. And it was like watching the other geese not give a shit. You know, there was five of us now that's four, that's life. And you realize like, oh, this sort of feeling sorry for yourself, mourning, grieving, not that these aren't things you should do,

but you realize that that's a pretty human thing. It's totally human. And it's a kind of a first world human thing. Yeah. Especially really sinking into it. Yes. Because I think, you know, some people have, well, everyone has a different relationship with loss and with grief and how they, you know, some people have, well, everyone has a different relationship with loss

and with grief and how they, you know, some people are a little, I think, extremely cold about things. And I mean, there's a diagnosis for some of them, but for people in the normal spectrum, some people can kind of just process things and move on. And then some people like really sink into a dark place with that stuff. And then you look at something like the animal at something like the animal world and they're just like moving on.

Sorry, this thing froze to death next to me and then I'm up. I'm hungry. Yeah, exactly. Going to go eat. Yes. It's totally different. I wanted to ask you this about the... So you're doing four, a series of four virtues. They're called the Cardinal Virtues. about the, so you're doing four, a series of four virtues.

They're called the Cardinal virtues. Now that it's a, obviously, you know, it's big success, you're a big success, and the books are, you go like, oh, cool. But I go back to like pitching this. Is that a, is that a difficult pitch to get someone to be like, this is gonna be a series of four books?

So my first book was about marketing. I did this book on an ex-pisae of media in basically fake news, not on Trump fake news, but real fake news. Your boy. Yeah, he offered you a job. Who? Trump. Didn't you offer you a marketing... Not Trump, but one of the cabinet secretaries. Yeah. Actually the worst, the worst. This is something I think about.

Okay, so the guy who gave Trump the idea for the wall, because Trump's just an idiot and he just surrounded by random people who were like, hey, you know what'd be cool? And he's like, that's a good idea. He's like, bring in the my pillow guy. What? Yeah, so this guy's named Sam Nunberg. He was just like, we should build a wall

between the US and Mexico and Trump's like, I fucking love it. Right, yeah. That guy's favorite book is Trust Man Line, which is your book. Yeah, and he's talking about it. And you're just like, great. How am I gonna get that off my-

This guy? Yeah. He was also drunk live on the news ones. He's quite a great guy. Quite a great guy. Find it hard to believe. So, okay. So Sam loves that book. Yes.

And then after you had, this is, the book came out 12 years ago. Right, but so my first book is about marketing. And then so, but what I really wanted to write about was like the kinds of stuff that Robert gets to write about. Like big ideas, timeless stuff. And so I went to them with what became the obstacles the way and they were not excited.

Not excited. Not at all. Okay. Because I mean, it's like a terrible idea. It's like an obscure school of ancient philosophy at a business imprint. And so they offered me less than half what I got for my first book.

And I was like, set it up. You're like, good. Yeah. And then that book, that sold almost two million copies. And then so after that, then they were sort of all in on, okay, angel philosophy. Okay. And so I did three books. I did three books on on Stoke Philosophy. I did obstacles the way he goes the enemy and still this is the key, which became kind of a series. Yeah. And then the Cardinal Virtue one was the first time that I pitched related books.

But now you have the green light to do stuff like that. So, yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean, it was still, I mean, Virtue is not a word, people get excited about. Sure. So it wasn't exciting for a publisher to be like, oh, Virtue? Yes.

Yeah. But you know what, it is exciting? Almost two million copies. Then they're like, what do you want to write about, man? But that's what I think, I mean, I know you've experienced this. It's like when you have that on yourself. Yeah. And then you've proven people who doubted you wrong,

then you have, you have like heat to kind of do what you want to do. And you can do what you want to do. Yeah. For sure. It's a great feeling to have. Yes. There's a couple of things that like I wrote down from the book that like even like small ideas I guess are just sentences.

But just the idea you write that discipline is freedom. You know that like that is and when and when you're reading it, you kind of stop and you're like, oh yeah, the person who just indulges in everything, that we're like led to believe that's who's having a good time. That's the happiest guy. Sure.

And that the disciplined guy, he must be bored and miserable that he's going to bed at nine or whatever and getting up and doing his work. And then, just the way that you write it, lights you up and you go, oh, right, the truly, the free one is the guy who actually adheres to his actually adheres to his routine and his schedule and isn't just tempted and indulging in all these things, whether it's food and sex and drugs. Like, I don't know, that really, it's touched upon a few times in the book,

but that really is a big concept to embrace, I think. Yeah, I mean, it's not just like, hey, if you work really hard, then one day you'll have financial freedom and security to do whatever you want. Although that's also true. It's more that, I think people think routine, structure, limits, this is when I do this, this is when they think that that's limiting or constraining, but it's actually that that gives you the creative freedom to fuck around and experiment and take

risks. You know, like if your life is a mess, you don't have the ability to be creative and chaotic in the work the way that you think that you do. Or like, inversely, like, I say no to lots of stuff and then like, what that means is I have like a calendar that's empty where I get to do the stuff that I want to do. That you want to do. And so, and the, but, but to the disment too, it's like when you write something about who

do you think's happier? You write something I'm paraphrasing here about who's happier? The guy that's like stuff in his fucking mouth and, and, and it's sick or the person that actually knows when to say no. And is it basically is disciplined about how they conduct themselves? And it's like, oh yeah, I mean, when you read it in that way, it's one of those things where it's like a slow nod, you're like, yeah, of course that's who's happier. Well, it's funny because so the rival of the Stokes was the Epicurians. This is the two schools in the ancient world.

The Stokes are supposedly very strict. I've a lot of discipline. It's about hard work and virtue. And then the Epicurians, even then, but now the word Epicurian means like a lover of food, a lover of pleasure, a hedonist. That's what the Epicurians are. That's the rival school.

But even Epicurus, who sent a quote all the time, he's saying that like basically any pleasure that has a hangover is not a pleasure. Or anything taken to the point where you then regret some where all of it later, that has to be included in the calculation as to whether this was fun or good or not. You had an awesome night last night and then you wake up and the next day is awful because you feel terrible, you're throwing up all day, you have to apologize to people,

or your marriage falls apart, all that has to be in, you have to put that in the calculus as to whether this is actually... Yeah, it's not terrible. It was an awesome night. It's like, tell the full story. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

And likewise, if discipline is hard and requires a certain amount of sacrifice, but then afterwards, you're proud of yourself, afterwards, you look yourself in the mirror, afterwards, you can do what you want. That also has to be, oh, actually wasn't that hard. Because, hey, I get to coast on this for a long time. How you feel after either any of your choices has to be a part of the equation. Yeah.

But for some reason, a lot of us don't mind. Well, I think the mind, from an evolutionary standpoint, that makes sense, right? Like, your body, your genes want you to do certain things that are maybe good for your reproduction or what, or your immediate gratification or benefit, but then like it's like the consequences of someone else's problem, but that someone else is just future you. And so I think it makes sense. Like the part of your, like when you accomplish something and you go, wow, this is really cool. But by the way, it didn't actually make me feel happy

or it didn't make my dad proud of me or any of the things that we sometimes tell ourselves like success is gonna bring us. Like we think the external stuff's gonna fix internal problems, right? Which it never does. The part of your brain that realizes that like when you're getting the gold medal,

or getting the applause, or caching the check, the part of your brain that realizes that, that then immediately forgets it, you can see why that's good from like a evolutionary standpoint, because it's like, if we ever actually learned that lesson, like as a species, we'd stop doing stuff. And so the mind is really good at tricking us into like, okay, one super bowl was great, but I think about Kevin Durant, like, okay, it was great to win these rings with the warriors. But like you won't really feel good about yourself

unless you do it in New York, which of course has been the biggest catastrophe like in the history of sports. That's what keeps people, well, what's over that mountain? What's over that mountain? So it makes sense. It's just, and it's good on a species level, but it's probably not good for you, the individual. Yeah.

And that's a huge lesson that you learn. I mean, the about success is that, I remember being like a broke comic and being like hearing about what comedians who sold out a club would make. I was like, that's the fucking crazy thing. Oh, I need it. And like, that is so much money.

And I wouldn't know what to do with myself. And also, if I did do that, I would feel happy, fulfilled. People would respect me. People who doubted me would learn their lesson. You know, like you go through all this. So like that would be the thing. Then you get there and it happens, you're like, oh, none of that happened. Also, like, well, now you can go to theaters. You're like, oh, it's theaters. So then you go to theaters.

Then you do theaters and there are like, and your ad shows and they're like, you can do arenas. Then you go to arenas. And then you do your son's or did a stadium. And then I got pitched a stadium thing. And I'm like, I don't even, like, I'm like, it's not that, here's the thing. It's better, I wanna be to stadium thing. And I'm like, I don't even, like, I'm like, it's not that, here's the thing, it's better,

I wanna be honest with you about it, it's better than being broke, not being successful. So getting to a level of success is better than, I think than having none, let's say, right? But it does not solve any of those feelings inside of you. It does not fulfill you. It doesn't, you don't go, I'm now complete, I am now happy. Everything, like all the things that you thought

that you would feel, they just don't happen. And I've heard people who have, I'm sure you've heard the stories of people who have reached like these unimaginable levels of success. Who I've never liked. It did it. They go, there's nothing up here. They're always saying that there's just nothing here. Yeah. which is like these unimaginable levels of success. I never liked it. It did it. They go, there's nothing up here. They're always saying that there's just nothing here.

Yeah. They look around and they're like, no, just the same thing. And it would be wonderful if you could learn that from other people, but you can't. And that kind of sucks. But to me, it's, it's, well, I remember, I remember when I dropped out of college, I got this job as an assistant at a talent agency, and it was 30 grand. That's what I got paid.

And I remember thinking, what am I gonna do with all this money? You know? So I got to try to remember that, like whenever I get paid for stuff, it's like $30,000 was once in obscene amount of money to you. You could have your own apartment, you could buy any book that you wanted,

when you wanted it, you could eat it, Carl's Jr., or whatever. Life was good, you know? And so keeping that perspective is really important, but I think also where I've gotten to is like, okay, so you've done the things, whatever the heights of your profession are, like in mine, it's like where have you hit on the bestseller list, or if you sold a certain number of copies or just like, my dream was like, could I publish one book, like one real book? I've done that 15 times basically. So it's like, you've done it. So then to me, it becomes, can you enjoy doing it? That, that would be the form of success,

but that a lot of people have never had it. Let me ask you this, because that expression is said over and over. They're like, and people who are further along than you and older than you, they'll go, don't forget to enjoy it. What does enjoy it mean, though? Well, why don't we just start with not fucking hating it while you're doing it, right? There's an expression, painters like painting, writers like having written, like being done with it is nice, but doing it is torturous.

And so like part of it for me is, is does it act, can you, can you do it really well and not hate it while you're doing it? Like can you enjoy, hey today, I got a thousand words in. I think I put some things together that have never been put together before, and that was pleasurable and that was good. But part of the way I don't just think like, you should enjoy yourself, like that cliche, I think about it as one of the stoic exercises is momentumory, like meditating

on your mortality. And I'm what I came to think is like, I could die before this book comes out. Obviously, this was heightened a little bit in the early days of the pandemic when nobody knew anything, but just think about it's like you could be Almost done with a special or a book or a project and then you could get hit by a bus, right? So so like the work that you're putting in Can't be predicated on only having been worthwhile if you live to see it come out and It does well. So like how do you, so first off, you're like, okay, I'm not going to predicate it on whether it does well or not.

I'm just going to be proud of it. And then you're like, actually what's not in my control is even whether I see it complete. So what is in my control right in this moment? It's like, what is the contribution that I make today? And so I think about it on that level. Like, did I have fun as a shitty word, I guess, but like, did I was today an enjoyable, worthwhile,

contributive bit of work? And like, that's the building block that I try to work on as opposed to like, this is horrible and I hate it and my personal life semis, but it will all be worth it when 18 months from now, X happens. Right. Then it's over and then I'll look back on all these times where I was cursing every day about this bullshit I have to go through.

Yeah. Okay. I talked to him. It's in the afterward of the book, but Manujanobli is Lizzie Santonio, he you know friends and he was we were having lunch one day at my bookstore and he was saying like that they lost he lost It's basically he went up for a rebound Chris Bosch gets it they lose in the NBA finals to the heat And he was like I've never been less happy than when we lost the NBA finals to the heat. And he was like, I've never been less happy

than when we lost the NBA finals. And then he was like, but also like, my whole dream was to like play in the NBA finals. Like that sucks, that like being able to enjoy being in the NBA finals is predicated on whether we win or lose. That's like, because what if the team is bad or what if you blow your knee or any number of things? And so to me, it's like, it was just realizing like, because what if the team is bad, or what if you blow your knee, or any number of things?

And so to me, it was just realizing the way to do the work is to be as in, so the Stokes have this phrase, you said it's better to be rich and successful than not rich and successful. They have this phrase, they say, basically everything that's not in your control is an indifferent, not indifference, but is it indifferent basically everything that's not in your control is an indifferent, not in difference, but is it indifferent, meaning it's not up to you

so it doesn't matter. But they said there's also such things as preferred indifference. So like your height is not in your control but like it's better to be tall than short. Right. Or it's better for people to love the special than hate the special. Yeah. And so if you're gonna have one, you would, if you better for people to love the special, then hate the special. And so if you're going to have one, you would, if you could choose, you would choose one,

but getting to a place where you actually are pretty indifferent to it. Like you're like, I love it. I think it's really good. I enjoyed doing it. So it's successful the day before it premieres. Yeah. And then when it does premiere, obviously you want to be number one, and you want to hit all the benchmarks and then win all the prizes. But that's extra on top of the other things that were in your country. That is true, because that's a great point. The times that I've been like, I love, I'm proud of this. That feels like a success already.

But before anybody, if I go, I'm down, I dig this. This is good. That feeling is actually better, it's a better feeling than the other person telling me that was good. Like, yeah, I know, I love this thing. In New Orleans, they have a word land, yeah, which means like the 13th donut.

It's just the extra. Like you didn't, you don't control it. It doesn't, it's not predictable, but like when you get it, you're like, fuck. That's great. That's pretty good. That's kind of like discipline sold fastest of any of my books, which was not at all expected, but also I feel like I did work in that it was a pleasant surprise when I found out, because I didn't even really check.

Like, yeah, I feel like, I've said this before, but I feel like on my first book, it was like, especially because I felt like I had things to prove, especially to my parents and stuff like that. It was like 10% hey, I can't believe I did this thing that I said I was gonna do that I I dreamed of doing and that's pretty cool. And then I was 90% like, what were the first week sales? Yeah.

And then in publishing, the best sellers are not actually exclusively based on sales. It would be like if the Netflix algorithm was like most watched, but then also we have like a diversity criteria on top of that. You're like, fuck what? Yeah. So you can earn it and not get it. But so I was 90% on that.

And I got stumped for some. I made one, which is cool, but like I realize that that was like a kind of a precarious place to be. And I feel like I've, I think if I'm honest, it's probably more like 80, 20, but I've tried to get more like 90, 10, I think if I'm honest, it's probably more like 80, 20, but I've tried to get more like 90, 10. Like 90, I'm good. I did what I set out to do. I don't have anything to prove and 10% like.

What are those sales? Yeah, yeah. I remember, tell me what, call me when they're good. I didn't know anything about how the publishing world worked. Nothing. And, you know, I do whatever. The book, turning it in, and there's this whole, and then like, you're doing some press, and then it's out, and then I'm like, so when do we find out about the, and they're like, oh, whatever, next week, next Tuesday, I think it was Tuesday.

It's like a hellish limbo week. Yeah, and I'm like, okay, so I was at a store. And I was trying something on in the dressing room. And when I give it to the salesperson, I pick up my phone and it's like six missed calls. Yeah, I was like, oh shit. So I call back and they're like, all right, you ready? Are you sitting down? I was like, no, I'm standing up.

I'm walking around the store. They're like, all right, you're gonna debut at number two on the New York Times bestseller list. And I was like, oh great, and they're like, this is fucking great. And I go, yeah, who's number one? And they're like, oh, it's this guy, he's on Fox. It's like, I forget what the name of the book was,

but they're like, don't forget, you know, there's like next to his book, there's a, like a chorus. Yeah, and they're like, don't forget, you know, there's like a next to his book, there's like a chorus. Yeah, and they're like a book dagger. It implies that it is a Christian or something like that. It just means like groups spot lots of copies of the books. And I was like, well, if he's doing the Christian thing, it really means that Jesus is number one, not me.

Yes. And I can accept that. I can accept Jesus being number one, you know. I have two like that. So when the obstacle is away, it came out. It hit no best solace. Really? None. I think it was, we eventually traced it back many years later. It was like categorized incorrectly or whatever, but it, when it came out, it did okay. It hit number one, six years after it came out. Six years. Six years. And I was mowing my lawn and my agent called and was like, you hit number one,

like it took six years, congratulations. And then I was like, now to finish mowing the lawn. Yeah, it is. Which is really nice. You know, it was like, okay, you know, chop wood, carry water kind of thing. And then the first time I hit number one, like with a debut, it's still this is the key hit number one on New York Times, which is again, sort of a surprise.

I'd never hit, I'd actually, I'd sold like literally millions of books and never hit the New York Times list. It's crazy. It was nuts. So I finally hit it. I didn't know if I was like banned for life or I had done something or whatever. So finally hit number one. It's really cool, proud of it. And then again, service, I think this to a lesson is like the next week, Donald Trump Jr. had the same spot and had like very visibly cheated. Like they'd used these like campaign funds like by tons of people.

All these like non-profit unseemless. That doesn't seem like something they would do. Of course, right, always on the oven up. And then you're just like, oh yeah, like this is, when you think this thing that, it's not only you think it's gonna they would do. Of course, right, always on the oven up. And then you're just like, oh yeah, like this is, when you think this thing that is not only you think it's gonna do something for you, like to get, yeah, I think it was triggered maybe. I'm just, I just, bullshit book.

Anyways, you think it's like, you think it's not gonna do something for you. You think it's like objectively important or, and then you're like, think about how many dipshits have gotten into Harvard, right? Or like just how many awful books or movies or whatever have hit number one. And you realize like, oh yeah, this is all nonsense.

Like in morons and men's so that you meet and you're like, you fucking toolbox. Yeah, so if you're associating your identity with a thing, the world has a really great way of reminding you quite quickly after just how utterly meaningless. Meaningless. That thing it.

Totally. Yeah. Which is good. Yeah. It's good to come to that realization. Yeah. But again, no one can, you really don't learn it from other people.

Yeah. I don't think you have to. One lesson, you touched on this for a second, and I wrote it, I actually had it written down, and it's something too that like, you hear it your whole life, and you hear it the busier you get, and the more successful you get,

you're given, it's like, it's more expected you're in permission, but I think it's important that people recognize that this is something that we can all do, which is to say no. Yes. Because what happens is if you become successful, recognize that this is something that we can all do, which is to say no. Yeah. Because what happens is if you become successful, then it's like if you're like, no, people are like, well, I understand,

you're a very successful person, right? But what I would say is that, yeah, your level of success shouldn't dictate who yeses and knows the things. And that owning, you're owning, saying no, is really, first of all, it's something you have to almost develop as a skill set. But you realize what it does is that it allows you to live the way you want to live. Yeah. And to make choices you want to make

and that you, you can get to a point where, you know, people will respect your, your know that, that you own your time. You know how, you can be the secretary and be like, no, yeah, doing that and people are like, all right. Well, also for me, it was helpful to realize that it and know is also a yes. And then a yes is also a no.

So like when you're saying, yeah, sure, I'll do X, Y, or Z because someone asks and you don't want to be rude or you don't like confrontation. Like, you're just setting up a different confrontation usually at home, right? So it's like, I said yes to do something that I didn't really want to do that. I don't have to do it. It's not important because I'm insecure or, you know, there's never enough. And then like, your three-year-old's like, where's that?

Yeah. You know, like you said no to that, but like, you're like, where's that? You said no to that. You're like, I don't want to be rude, but then you are super rude to the person that cares about you the most in the world, that you, by nature of bringing them into the world, promise them all of your time. And you'd probably far prefer spending time with them, though the person you said yes to. Yes. There's a Marxist-Rusquota meditation goes, are you afraid of death because you won't be able

to do this anymore? And I think about that like whenever I'm doing like fucking bullshit that I got guilted into doing or I was doing and I'm like, this is like the meaning of life, like this. Yeah. Dom event I'm at or this like dinner party that I wish would be over soon.

COVID was helpful for me there too because it was like, is this worth getting COVID for? Sure. Or giving, is this worth giving my family COVID for because like I had to do the podcast that like, I could have just said no to or done it remotely or whatever. Thanks for doing it.

Of course. No, but you know what I mean. Of course. Like when it was like, when the stakes were made very clear, it was helpful to me to see how bad I was at doing it. And then, have you found the more successful you are the less time you have to do the thing that made you successful in the first place?

Yeah, a lot of times. Yeah, a lot of times. I mean, I've just been on this absolutely insane tour. I mean, really. I read you said you over committed a little bit. A little. So, so much. But I mean, here's the thing, I do feel like I've learned because of this.

One of those things where you go, the funny thing is, I was giving people advice that I myself wasn't taking, right? I was telling younger comics, like, you don't have to schedule your tour life this way. And then I would do the opposite of the advice that I was giving to people. Yeah, I feel like I learned my lesson, but yes, I can get into a place where I'm doing

so many things, and I feel like I have no time left and then it's like Oh, yeah, I got to find a stage somewhere to get on or you know, I got to find time to And yeah, and it comes from over committing I do feel like also that a reason I said it's a skill set to say no Is that there was a time where I was so insecure about yeah saying no and like I would just Didn't want to say no. I didn't feel like I could say no You know someone's not gonna like me if I say no and then you know it takes just time and Life and you realize that like you can and like I I fucking love saying no Do you ever say you ever add something and someone's like why are you here and you're like?

Yeah, why am I here like when they're like this is not not a thing you should have said, they were excited to be there, but they were like, you should, this is like, of course. And then that's like always super helpful. I, that's super helpful. I wish people would do that for each other more. Yeah. Like, you're like, this was, you could have said no to this.

You did not, you did not need. And then the other thing is we're super good at judging other people for saying yes to stuff. Like, what's the, what's that Saudi Arabia Gulf League? Golf League yeah, the super expensive golf league that they're paying all those people like hundreds of millions of dollars to Oh, yeah, is it live or L.I.V.I never but anyways all these golfers are getting paid like hundreds of millions of dollars Hundreds of millions to leave the PGA tour to play for this basically corrupt Saudi Arabian Gulf.

Is this an online with like their soccer thing too? Because they're being crazy. Yeah, it's called sports washing, where you basically throw tons of money to get like big names to sort of whatever. So like I remember looking at this and then I got an offer to go speak in some similar country for like 50 bucks, and I was like, should I do it? And I was like, wait, so it's so easy,

it's so easy to judge, or we look at politicians and they should throw away their career by speaking out on this issue. And then meanwhile, you know your boss is like cooking the books. And you're just like, what's a job? It's a job. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's very easy to say people should draw like clear stands or say notice stuff. Totally. And then it's really fucking hard to actually do it. And you have to build it as a muscle. And no is definitely a muscle. It's a muscle. Yeah. It really is. It's something that it takes time and takes any, it's like, I think it's the same as communication skills.

Like in other words, let's talk about this thing, like, hey man, you upset me earlier when you said that. You don't just, like people don't just do that. That's something that takes a look, because you're terrified to do that, by nature you're terrified to do that, you know? And then if you work at it little by little, you get to a point where if you're terrified to do that, by nature you're terrified to do that. And then if you work at it little by little, you get to a point where if you're paying attention

and you care about not feeling, because for me, I don't wanna feel the unease of not bringing it up. That's what got me to having communication developing some communities and skills is that I don't wanna just sit with that inside of me. So little by little, I got to the point where I'm like, all right, Ryan, you said that,

I'm gonna talk to you about that. And you know what I mean? Like, sure. But that's kind of similar to know to me, is like, you have to develop it. Yeah, that's kind of like an obstacle is the way thing for me where it's like, okay, I gotta fire this person.

These are the worst conversations. Or you have to be like, hey, like, you really let me down or X, Y, you have to have the, and I go like, those conversations are super hard, but the reason they're super hard is because they're rare. Yeah. And, which is good. Yeah. But like, now I have to do it.

And so it's practice for doing that thing. Yeah, I try to think about it as like, there's gonna be some pivotal moment in my life in the future where I have to like, fire someone or I have to preemptively like break something up that's going well, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be expensive. And like by doing it here in this relatively low stakes thing,

by telling this, I don't know, like, AC Tech who was late for the third time that like, I'm gonna go with another company, you know, like, you're just getting practice doing that thing. And so it's actually not bad that it's happened. Yeah. You wouldn't have chosen for it to happen, but it did happen.

And now like you have reps doing a thing that you really can't get reps in life doing anything else. Yeah, I remember firing somebody a low, kind of like you said, like a low stakes thing where they were, it was like kind of what you you said like late for like the third or fourth time coming to my house and they called me or texted me like I'm gonna be like late to the thing Or did they call all remember is that I I was like okay? And then I yeah, they called and I hung up and

I just sat there for a minute. I was like, what do you do? And then I called them back. Don't come. I was like, yeah, don't come. Yeah. And she was like, what? I was like, don't, yeah. We're talking about, like we had this time,

she was like, no, the time, I go, no. Yeah. You know the time. I don't know what you're, yeah. Well, you know, the traffic, I was like, this is a city of traffic. What are you talking about? Like, and, but I felt so much better.

Yeah. But there was a lot, there was, but basically in the 40 years before that conversation, I would have taken that probably over and over. It just, it took a while. Yeah, and now you're a person who's had that conversation one time, and then the next time you have to do it, you're like, okay, this is like when I had to do it,

it was so-and-so, and it's like a little bit better. And you, you just build the muscle of being able to, it's like, I mean, obviously you go on stage of life, I have to like do talks, but it's like people like, stage fright. And it's like, I just am on the stage a lot. Like the only reason it's less weird for me than it is for you is because I've done it a lot of times.

And I, and the only way to do because I've done it a lot of times and I And the only way to do that is to do it a lot of times the people talk I've brought up what like confidence as a as a comedian at least sometimes people go you know This guy's so confident be like a young guy. It has like a lot of swag and I'm like, you know, that's not real That's eco. Yeah, that's not real confidence. Yeah, real confidence You you do not develop without tons of reps. That's in what we do. And in getting on stage,

there's no such thing as owning the stage, like your eighth time on stage. You can look like it. You can fake it. Yeah, you can fake it. But that real control of the person just goes up there, like it's nothing, that person's been on stage like 10, 15,000 times.

Like that is so many times that it's a grounded, it's a true confidence. Sure, it's not. You can't, it doesn't matter how you walk out there and what you do, like if you don't have the reps, you don't actually have that much confidence. Yeah, I've said, I don't believe in myself, I have evidence. And you acquire evidence. Yeah.

And it's actually the same with writing too. When people think writer's block is a thing. Yeah. And it's like, no, you just don't have the material. If you haven't done the work to have the idea of what you're going to say. Like, there's not this, like, you're like, oh, I'm not feeling confident today. That's not a thing. The confidence is based on if you've done it 15,000 times,

yes or no. Like, you do not feel excited, but the confidence is based on having done it a lot of times. And writer's block is like, you want to write, but you have not done the work that goes into writing, and then you're wanting the last stage without the previous stages. And so the lesson there to that person is like,

you haven't done the work yet. Just go read a bunch of books or think about it. Like you don't have to force writing to it. There's things you can do that will contribute to the project you're working on. It's just not the performance part of it. This feels to me like sort of connected to the just do it now part of the,

because nothing makes me crazy at this point, where you meet somebody who's like, yeah, I have a bunch of standard material written, I just haven't gotten on stage. And I'm like, okay, so then you haven't done it. Yeah. And they're like, yeah, but I have like journals full. I'm like Sure, sure and then like yeah, I just you know, they're waiting waiting for like the like do you think this day? Well, just the sun's gonna shine differently that morning and you're gonna go this is the stage day

Yeah, you're just you still haven't done it. Yeah, so like if you're it's like and I this comes to me I would fully admit to I can think of being in those moments too. Sure. What it is is you're consumed by fear usually. You know, I mean, I remember man, I remember I had this I went to an agent as a I wanted to audition to be for them to represent me. This is before I moved to LA. Okay. So I was in Carolina, in North Carolina. I go to Charlotte and the lady was like, what have you done? Like what have you, what's your resume like? Yeah. And I was like, just these things in college. Yeah.

And she's like, well, we represent people that have done this, this and that. And I had like the monologue ready to do. And she was like, so I mean, you haven't done any of those, we were ever some people who have done a bunch of things. And I was like, yeah, no, I haven't. And she was like, okay. And then I just was like, all right,

I guess I should, and I just left. I just left and went. And I was, but you justify it to your spin it to yourself, right? I can look back on it 20 some years later and go, I was just terrified in that moment and went along with her judgment. Instead of being like, I'll just show you what I can do,

I was like, I'll just leave. You know? And then now a few months later, I was in LA and I was auditioning finally and I got an agent. But in that moment with her and Charlotte, I was like, all right, I'll just not do it. Well, like in publishing what it is, is like people think the book is gonna be their first thing.

Like, they're like, I've never published anything, even though you can publish an unlimited amount of stuff for free on the internet. I've never done that. Even though you can make a great living, writing for newspapers and magazines and websites. Yeah. I've never done that.

My first thing should be the hardest, most exclusive of the things, which is like, get an advance, be one of 50 titles that a major publisher puts out. I deserve one of those spots, because my idea is so good. And the publisher's like, may not even disagree that your idea is good. Your idea could be

fucking great. And you could actually be a very good writer. But their question and the question in publishing is like, what's your platform? They're like, we're not going to tell everyone about this. Like, they're like, who are the fans that are buying this thing? Like when it comes out and no one's ever heard of this person before, why would it sell more than six copies? And so people don't want to do, it's not even just like the work on the specific project, but they don't want to do the work of like, hey, I've been writing on,

even social media every day for six years, and I have a thousand fans, or 10,000 fans, or a million fans. You have to do the work of the thing first. And it's funny now, because like, when I went to my publisher, I was like, I want to write about obscure, you know, Angel Blossom, you know, like, oh, you know. But now other people will, now it's a niche.

Like, you know, people can, people can write a proposal and they'll look at what Ryan's books have sold. You should buy mine. And then those books come out and they sell like 12 copies, because no one has heard of that person. Like they think that the books are successful because of the ideas in them. And obviously that contributed to it, that's what word of mouth is. But like, no, the reason the book sold is that I sold every single one of those books. Like I personally sold tens of thousands of those books to individual people

by the work that I did. And that's what built an audience that then consumes. And they're like, but people like, I don't want to do that. Yeah. No, they're like, I just, I should just have a good idea. Yeah. And then lots of people should hear about it. It should give me a few million dollars. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That's the, that's not getting started with it. That was attached to the perfectionism. Yeah. And that is a big, I feel like I mean, it can apply to a lot of things, but in the arts, it's a big one.

You know, it's like, you meet so many people like, I want to direct. And you're like, well, I mean, like, there's cameras and you get your crew to get like, I'm just waiting for the, they wanna start with like Peter Jackson Lord of the Rings level first movie. They're like, that's my idea. That's where I am. Yeah, that's what I get. And it's not how it works at all.

I don't know if you ever talk about this, but I just, I started by telling you that, you know, I enjoy your Instagram stuff. Yeah. And I realized just recently that I was like, man, what am I doing following 2000 accounts? You know? Oh, sure.

And so I guess. Well, I started to do this thing where I'm unfollowing accounts every day. Oh. And you know what? It feels the same thing, like the same emotions to go through, like cleaning out a closet or a desk, you know,

where you're like sometimes like, I've gone through a closet where you're like, you get rid and then you're like, I'm dumb with this dude. I can't, like, you know, I spend like half an hour doing it and I'm like, here's 20 shirts, I'm getting rid of them out of my closet, but I'm dumb with this today.

It's the same emotional toll. Interesting. Because I realize that I only wanna follow either people I know, care about, love, respect, fields of, you know, photography, nature, comedy people. And then something that either has some, like, fulfill something rewarding to me. And then I'm like going, I'm like,

I don't know what the fuck I'm felt. Like what did I hit follow on? Who's RebJ 26? Like I don't know what this is. So I'll go through. I'll go through. I'll follow you, mute. I don't follow. Interesting.

I would mute somebody. Here's all mute. Like a comic who's a douchebag, but I gotta be like, you're pretty good. Like here, I'll mute that guy. But like, we like I don't want your energy in my life,

but I also don't want you to think that you're not in my life. That's also bad energy. Yeah, exactly. I don't want you to think that I'm just not retribution or anything. Yeah, there's like this, we are actually there's really small kind of fraternity.

So you're like, but no, for an accountant, I'm like, I don't even know who this person is, you know? I'm like, I'm just unfollowing this. I don't want to follow this many accounts because I actually read this thing a while back and I obviously didn't follow it then, which is that, you know, if you follow like over a certain amount of accounts, then every time you hit a refresh, it's a new thing, right? But there's so many of them, or you're disconnected to you. Like I'm saying, you don't know what this is.

But if you limit it, then it's like people you know, people you care about, things you care about, and you're like, oh, but that it also is not endless. You'll be like, I saw Ryan's post, I saw this post, and then you're like, I'm done with that. If you open it, it's not gonna be new again. So there's not an unlimited amount of time to be able to get that also makes sense.

And so I did that. The other thing that I've been trying to embark on is this thing about, I'm trying to like not be a, this is my own discipline. I like doing like, try different disciplines, right? So we've done like, so, October with friends and, you know, like, I work out almost every day.

And so, like, there's different disciplines. So, I'm trying to not be a consumer for a month. Not by anything. Other than like, you know, your necessities, right? Sure. But just like, not because I realize that being able to just like, buy what you want when you want, it's like, I don't know, it just feels kind of...

Do you also just get a lot of free shit in the mail? Oh, tons. That's like, that is I think a first world problem that I haven't gotten a lot of advice on, but it's fucking weird. Yeah. Because like, stuff just comes, and then you feel bad throwing it away, and then you could give most of it away, but then also like, if you're someone's like, that's cool, I would like that.

And then you're just like, wow, I have a lot of fucking battery packs for my phone. Or what, you know what I mean? Yeah. And just like all this nonsense that you get to people send me. Hats and shirts and sweatshirts and swag and like have you tried this coffee and this thing and this, and like, and yeah, it just builds and builds and builds

and it's all sit in there and then it just makes it look like you're a mess. Yeah, this is all free shit. But also, so you get that on top of the fact that I feel like you're gonna just buy whatever you want. Like buy things, right? And there's a part of that that feels good. You're like, I really, I want, this is cool.

I want this. But I also feel like it's sometimes just good to deny yourself the thing you want in that moment. It's like, you know what? I'm gonna, instead of going like, I want this, I'm gonna get it right now. Why don't I give it a month and be like, do I still want that thing or was that just a passing moment

of like walking through a store and being like, I want that, I'll get it. That's the delayed gratification muscle. Yes. You know, the marshmallow test? The marshmallow test. You do this test. It's probably, it makes in two to sense

how much it's based on the science, but basically they're like, do you want one marshmallow right now, or do you want two marshmallows in 15 minutes? Oh yeah. And if you're someone who can be like, I'll take two in 15 minutes, you have the ability to delay gratification.

But like, kids usually don't. Because they don't believe you usually. Don't they walk out of the room for that one? Which is, and they leave the one in front of them. Yeah, they see if you eat right now. Who's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No, it's fine. Snag is it? For me on a social media thing, all my accounts are on my wife's phone. No. Yeah. So like, I can't check it. And so like, I can only get, like, you know what I mean?

And then she's like, she's like, give me my phone back, you know? And so, if it prevents me from spending, like, I'm never on there and I'm like, I'm so glad I, even, even like, I'm so glad I even, even that, like even having an on her phone, she'll be like, are you trapped in like a scrolling cycle? And I'll be like, yeah, she'll be like,

just give me my phone back. And then I just, I like physically cannot check it most of the day, because we're not together most of the day. And then, so I like little things like that also. That's a really good one. So then when I'm on, I don't really care. It's like, this is like my 20 minutes that I'm gonna do it or whatever,

but like I'm just not sucked into it. Yeah, there's those, that can be a real rabbit hole. And then you can get into the, like the triangle of them, you know, you're like Instagram, and you're like, oh, YouTube, and you watch YouTube, you can just lose yourself in video. Especially with the shorts on YouTube. I only have YouTube kids on my phone. I'm just only garbage for them. Yeah, it's, yeah, I try it.

It's like self-control is one thing, but also you could just have self-control that doesn't put yourself in situations where self-control is required. Like if you physically cannot access it, you're going to be more disciplined. Yeah. So I think about that. Yeah, it's like if you don't go to the bar or the club, you're not going to have any of the issues that come up there. Yeah.

Like when the pandemic happened and like you couldn't do stuff, like I was much better at saying no. Sure. You know, because I wasn't... Yeah. I couldn't. I'm like fuck, I'd like saying no. Sure. Because I wasn't, I couldn't. I'm like fuck, I'd like that. I don't wanna die, so I can't go. Right, yeah. Or just like people weren't asking you to do stuff. So you're like, I'm so,

you're like, look how disciplined I am about my routine and my structure. I'm working all the time. And you're like, oh, yeah, I had time because I couldn't go do random bullshit. One other thing, so you kind of motivated me in a way with this too, just by following your God damn Instagram accounts, is that you kind of got me excited

about reading where I felt like there was a time of my life where I was reading a decent, I mean I was reading a decent amount. I mean, I was in like a hardcore reader, but the enthusiasm you have for reading is, I mean, obviously I know you have a bookstore. I probably have some books for my books, try. Oh, you did?

Yeah, you won them. Yes, can I tell you, I want to know if you brought this? Yeah. Just from the reading the post a few days ago, I really want to read that tiger book. Oh, that book is very good. I didn't bring it because I actually kind of assumed. That is like one of the greatest.

I have a book like that, I think. You like that? That is one of the greatest nonfiction books. Leave this stuff up for a second. So, were you, obviously, I mean, it's clear that you consume information and you're a great writer. Do you always, from, from when you're, let's say, 19 and you're asking Drew about what to read, are you a heavy reader this all this time? I was like, from like, a kid, I was a heavy reader, but like, to my parents, it's not

no fault in my parents, but like, I just didn't know what good books were. Yeah. So, I would just read anything. Yeah. And I don't mean that in a snooty sense. I just mean like, I just thought all books were like, live customary novels or something. I just thought they were all like Costco dad books.

Like that was like the height that I got. The idea that is like literature or great nonfiction books. That didn't happen till later. But yeah, I just love reading. Yeah. Here you wanna see what I got on the room? Yeah, listen to me, you're both through.

All right, this is a kids one. You know Steve Ronella? He's a hunter. He's on Rogan a bunch of times. Yes, that's one of the best parenting books I've read in a really long time. Really? It's about outdoor kids in an inside world.

Like how do you raise kids that are self-sufficient and do stuff and aren't? He's like, you wanna raise a kid that doesn't say you a lot. You know what I mean? Like they're not grossed out by things in the world. You know what my kids ask for every night? What? Will you tell us a poop story?

There you go. There you go. I'm like, what? Where has that come from? Why are they like, tell us like a story where you had diarrhea. And I'm like, okay. Where has that come from? And they're like, says, tell us like a story where you had diarrhea. And I'm like, OK. And then I tell him a story.

And I am killing, like I am doing one of the best bits of my life. And I was like, and I had so much diarrhea. It made me, I felt stick smelling it. And then they're like, oh, man. They're like, God. And he like has trouble breathing. He's like, that's the funniest shit I've ever heard.

I'm like, all right, good a bad guy. I took another, I was thinking of you the other day because I watched, I saw this video from you a long time ago when you talked about how you taught your kids the wrong curse words. Like you told them that these were like words. You could not say. And so we did that.

Like they know all the actual curse words also. I'm sure. But like two days ago, my son dropped something and he was like, fettlesticks. words also unfortunately, but like like two days ago my son Like drops and then he goes, fetal sticks, you know, and he's like so great. Well our kids I mean at home all like all the time I'm like, hey man, you gotta stop you can't talk like that But I saw one of the teachers and I was like, how's the language and they're like language I'm like, does it curse and they're like never I'm like never So like they figured out like this back because at home, I'm like you get and curse? And they're like, never. I'm like, never can say no. So like they figured out like this,

because at home, I'm like, you get, and I don't throw a tim, just like, I'm just like, I don't want you saying that. I'm like, all right. And then they're like, God damn it. I'm like, hey man, like stop saying that, you know. We try to say there's actually no such thing as bad words. There's just some context where people don't like it

if you say certain words. Yeah, some content. Yeah, you know, sure. All right, this is the sun. This is, I think, the best novel about Texas that I've run a long time. It's also an AMC series. But this guy was in Austin.

Really? It's very good. Part of its based in Bastion, where I'm in Bookstores, but really good book. Let's see what else I got. Oh, this is a leather edition of meditations. This is the translation that I got when Dr. Drew introduced me, which I bought the rights for and then published. Really? Yeah. So I think I like that one. That's very cool.

If you read the Rick Ruben book, the creativity, I just got it. I was given to me as a gift. All right, you can give that one away. That one's really good. I'll throw the trash. All right, please. This one's really good. This is Admiral Stavridis. He's a former naval of the head of NATO. And it's like stories of people who like took huge, risky big decisions like life or death decisions. I like the hung on everything.

That one's really good. The last one I got. Is there? Oh, this is mine. Next one, really good. The last one I got. Is there? Oh, this is mine. Next one, this is the Daily Dad. Oh, shit. That doesn't come out till May.

Oh, advanced copy, bitch. And this one is for your wife. Okay. Which is a cool book on like women writers and artists. Yeah. I thought it was really good. I was just kidding. That's awesome. Thank you very much. Of course. I thought these are the ones I picked out for you that I thought it was really good. That's awesome. Thank you very much.

Of course. I thought these are the ones I picked out for you that I thought I should have. I saw the tiger on the shelf and I was like he would probably like this one, but then I thought maybe he could have. I just remember honestly just like seeing that post and being like, I want to read that. It's really good. Because you like you glowed about it in the post, you know. Yeah.

It's this guy in Russia whose job it is to put down like basically like man eating tigers. Like there's basically this tiger, something happens with the tiger, it starts killing hunters and this guy is tracking this. And tigers will kill for sport. That's the thing that people don't, they will. Not that all will, but they are natural predators

that will, they like to hunt, right? Like lions, they almost always kill because they're hungry. A tiger doesn't have to be hungry to kill. When also like a tiger's paws, like the size of a basketball. Like you think, a tiger's paw, what is it like this big?

It's like nothing. This big. Hey, speaking of lions, have you seen that Val Kilmer moving the ghost in the darkness? Yeah, and it's like nothing. This big. Hey, speaking of lines, have you, you've seen that Val Kilmer movie that Ghost in the Darkness? Yeah, and that's a book on that too. That, oh, I, I, I loved that movie. It was so, it was so fun. And that was the, like one of the big things about that

is even amongst like people, like animal experts, is that it was, it felt to them, like it was the rare occurrences that these lines were actually killing for sport. That it was, it occurrences that these lines were actually killing for sport. That it was, it was rare that they would just want to kill. If, if you've been in the field museum in Chicago, yeah, you can see the lines. You can see the lines, yeah.

They have like fucked up teeth. And like, it was something where, I think oftentimes, well, two things, but they had fucked up teeth. And so like, it was just easier to kill humans than real, than like, it's actual prey. So it was like, usually kill humans than real than like it's actual prey So it was like the human usually they stay clear of the humans But this was like if somehow easier they kill a bunch of people like yeah

They found like a cave full of human bones. Yeah, just fucking nuts And then also there's a book. Who is it Mary? What is that? Sorry, there's a new book called Fuzz Uh-huh, and it's all about human animal interactions, and it's called like Fuzz when animals break the law, and it's all about people whose job it is in Lake Tahoe, the people whose job it is to catch the bears that continually break into people's houses, or in India, there's certain kind of monkey that's out of control. Oh, Mary Roach, That book's really good also.

And you talked about, I've seen you right before about not just, I don't want to say mindlessly reading, but like act of reading, right? We're like, take notes or highlight things. I like full pages and take notes. And then that's what I learned from Robert is this process of then like transferring it to index cards and then index cards become the material in the books that I write. So I'm usually, I'm always reading with some eye towards material also.

Oh, really? But like when you read something that is like, has, you know, I don't know, like this, like I took a bunch of notes, I took a bunch of notes when I was reading with sun and then I did, I found, cause I was just going through the other day. I wrote two, I do this email every day called Daily Stoke

and then one called Daily Dad and I found two passages in that book that I was just going through the other day. I wrote two, I do this email every day called Daily Stoke and then one called Daily Dad. And I got found two passages in that book that I was like, oh, I could use this to write something for Daily Dad. So I'm just always finding this stuff. Daily Dad's about parenting though? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like one parenting message every day. So I should sign up for this.

There's also an Instagram. Oh shit. Yeah, I've got to hear this. So this book I ever read. Of course. I have heard of it. It's fucking unbelievable. You'll probably need a number of index cards.

Yeah, I'll fold all of it. Just read the first chapter. I don't know. That is, no, that's, but I think it's a really good thing to, for someone like me who I'm like, you know, I look back and I go, I haven't read a ton of books in the last decade.

I've read a few, but I've never looked back at a reading experiment. Like that was, I'm so pissed that I did. Like it's always like an enjoyable experience. Do you read as you're writing to? Like in other words, are you? I usually read a lot before I started a book on that topic,

and then when I'm writing on a topic, I read randomly, and then I am always amazed at things that I find when I wasn't looking, so you're sort of opening yourself up to serendipity. I think one rule, like people who read a lot, quit a lot of books, and people who don't read a lot, don't get that. So they're like, I've been reading this book for six months,

and it's like time to quit. Like, the move on from that way. So they're like, I've been reading this book for six months and it's like time to quit. The move on from that way. Yeah, like it sucks. The job of the reader is to capture your attention and make, or the job of the writer is to capture your attention and make you think, I need to fucking finish this book. It's so good, right? And if they haven't done that, there's actually this stoic joke where Epictetus hears this, this student's talking about having read. They were bragging about having read this obscure stoic writer named Crecipus, who was really boring and long-winded.

And he goes, you know, if Crecipus was a better writer, you would have less to be proud of. And so, like, to me, if you're like, oh, that book was really hard, like, it's because the writer did a bad job. It's not because you're dumb. Yeah it's because the writer did a bad job. It's not because you're dumb. Yeah. Like, the writer did a bad job. That's a good thing to tell people. Yes.

Yeah, and it's like, find a new book. Yes. Like, I wouldn't be like, I gutted my way through so-and-so's new special. Yeah. Right, of course. Like, no, the job is to make you not do that. That's a hundred, because like,

same thing with movies or TV shows. If you're like, oh, and turn this thing off, you're gonna want to watch another movie. And you're not wrong. That's 100 because like, same thing with movies or TV shows. If you're like, oh, and turn this thing off, you're gonna wanna watch another movie. And you're not wrong. That's the way I've used. Have you watched Slow Horses? No. Fuck.

Is it good? It's so good. Okay. It's Apple Plus, Gary Oldman's, that is the lead in it. What is it about? It is about the people that, like the fuck up agents kicked out of MI5 go to this, they call it Slau House and they're like the, the cat, the send-offs.

Like, they're the, you know, the guys that fucked up in MI5. And he is like overseeing it and they basically get thrown into, I don't wanna give anything away, but they're supposed to be like, just exists. You gotta just push papers, and then they get wrapped up into high stakes scandal. And the whole cast is, he's phenomenal. Of course.

And it's really well done. It really like, it's high level production. Like, it's really, there's so many shows now. Like, I can never, when I meet people that have seen every show, I'm like, you don't have kids, right? Yeah. Because I'm like, how the fuck do you have watched?

Like, every show, they're like, yeah, I've seen this show, I'm like, no. So when I stumble on something, it's really got, like you're saying, it's got to grab my attention. I really have to like the genre, the storytelling, all that, and stumble on something, it's really gotta, like you're saying, it's gotta grab my attention. I really have to like the genre, the storytelling, all that, and that one is, it's really good.

Yeah, people either are admitting they have like, five nannies, or they are just bad parents. Like I was talking to someone, it's like, oh yeah, I saw a top gun in the theater three times. I'm like, you have two kids. What? I haven't seen one movie in the theater. What are you talking about?

I don't know, like, or like, do you work? What do you do? Yeah, or you just, like, you and your spouse don't like each other? Yeah, you know, you have too much time. How could you do that? I can't imagine being like, hey, I'm gonna go to the movies by myself,

like with your own kids, and my wife'd be like, fuck you are, you know? And then be like, I'm going to the movies to see a movie I already saw. She'd be like, what? What are you talking about? I've seen, I've seen I already saw. She'd be like, what? What are you talking about? I've seen movies on flights.

Well, of course, that's only different. Yeah, that's like, I'm seeing movies that are like, in this show, I don't know. A lot of times I end up watching shows that people are raving about six years later. I'm like, oh yeah, I just started that show. Yeah, I'm watching the office again, I guess. Yeah, you know.

Do you like the original office? Not as much. See, I'm the opposite. Really? I stopped watching the US office like pretty much right away. Really? Because I was so like, I watched the British office first. And I was like, this is the funniest fuck. And there's a tone to it. Yeah. So I thought that the tone exactly would carry. It's it's harsher. It's like it's definitely more cutting because I don't know it's that's the way the bridge to it. And I think BBC allows more, but I never got into the US version and I would give a I'm from whenever I'm watching something I have to be like is this better than a rerun of lawn order and like because I would give a... For whatever Martian's something, I have to be like, is this better than a rerun of lawn order?

And like, because I would rather just watch that. But it's that, yeah. Like, because it's totally self-contained. They're not trying, like, I think that's the thing I hate about streamers, where it's like very obvious that it's like, has to be interesting at the beginning and interesting at the end of the episode,

and then it can be just nonsense in between, because they just want you to go to let the auto play of the next episode. That's like the whole... Is there any series that you're really into right now? Or, recently? in between because they just want you to go to let the auto play of the next episode. That's like the whole... Is there any series that you're really into right now? I think I've finished most of the stuff that I'm interested in, but I haven't found anything where I'm like, this is like my next thing.

I already have depression knowing that there's only two seasons of flowhorses. Because when you find one thing, you really like the people. Yeah, you like the people and the storytelling in that whole world is like, you know, yeah, I'm already like, fuck, it's gonna end soon. Yeah, yeah, and they have great like cliffhangers and, you know, and where, who does it? Is it like, is it Netflix where you know

it's only gonna go like three seasons? It's Apple Plus. They have done two seasons, but they're current. Like the show started in 22. So they might be, I don't know if they're shooting a third season. Let's see, does this say, it says renewed for a season. Is it three that, right there, hit the one on the left,

that one, yeah. Yeah, renewed for season three and four. Oh, and four. All right. Well, I'm gonna get two more seasons in 2025. Have you watched Chad and JTGO Deep? No, oh, it's so funny. What is that on? It's this, I think it's on Netflix. It's only? No. Oh, it's so funny. What is that on?

It's this, I think it's on Netflix. It's only like six episodes, but it's like, basically these guys, they're like, uh, bro activists and they go to like city council meetings. Yeah. And like, um, uh, Dr. Drew's in one of the episodes. It's super funny. Yeah. Um, they, like, they, um, like the first episode, they, they, like, first episode they like they

They hear that like sonning your but hole is good for your health And so they go to like the Orange County City Council to ask for a public park where this could be done and then It's like real stuff like they're actually really did it. It's like so it's Borat with fake stuff Yeah, and then he's like allow me to model it for you, you know And they like gets down like in the city council. he's like, doing it, it's so good. Okay. They're amazing. Amazing. Okay. Chad and JT go. Oh, it's so good.

I'll take the sun, your bottle. I mean, my kids would love that. They would, it's so good. And the city, like, because the city council people are used to crazy people. And like they can't tell if it's real or not. And like, oh, it's the best. Yeah, the library took my password.

How about that? Yeah. Yeah. Sir, what is this? Yeah, like, you can't talk about this here. Oh, what does this have to do with the city of Orange County? Or what are you know? Did you see that?

Like those dominatrixes go into the Miami city council thing and they came in in full leather, like they're a whole thing and they were like, funding should be diverted to building a dungeon for us. And they gave their whole speech and one of them has a collar on and stuff. And were they serious? Yeah, I mean, yeah.

They clearly looked to me like we've played it on the show. They looked to me like they were aware, because they were like, she's a little too savvy to not be aware that this would get a lot of attention, like probably national attention that it would go by all in some sense, but it was a real, what do you got? You got it?

Yeah, yeah, looking for it right now. So, they just walked in and I think there was three of them too, so it was like, it was definitely coordinated the way that they walked up and City Council had to, yeah, oh wow. Good evening Council peoples. Good evening, council peoples. You may call me mistress. I am here standing neutral to the motion

of proving an agreement for the proprietary purchase of yard waste processing and disposal. I do, however, find it interesting that you won't spend almost $1 million to hide your secrets down the drain, hiding that condom I know you used to cheat on your spouse with. So, I propose that you use a quarter of that mill

to support doms and subs in Broward County. Broward County. To build a dungeon. Just north of Dacan. Yeah. Created for us by us. The taxpayers and voting citizens. This is a great outfit. In closing. Do not let this glamorous look distract you from doing your duty to take much amount of math. Back to the future came out and they had us believe that this is what everyone

would be wearing in 2015. They're like 2015, they'll be floating and people have visor like glass helmets on and you're like, oh yeah, that'll be 2015. I wish that's what cops were today. People are still slabs. No, people are animals. Do you write that something about presentation? Like, oh Yeah, there's a chapter on On Hall of Miracle, which is like, wasn't the idea that you have to, it's like, you have to care about presentation, but you can't care that much. Yeah. I mean, there is this, I've touched on this before that like my father used to always say, he's like, do you know what I used to wear?

He's like, do you know what people would wear to fly? He's like a coat and tie. Yeah, I remember when I was in Canada, I was like, you can what I used to wear? He's like, you know what people would wear to fly? He's like a coat and tie. Yeah, I remember I was in Canada, I was like, you can't wear that to the airport. I was like, what are you talking about? And now, now people are in, not even should slip, like the house slipper.

Yeah. And a tank top, but a thin one, so like your arm pits are out. Like, and it's cut down to here. I saw a woman get on a flight in a bikini with just the wrap, but the wrap was see through. Like she just left the pool. And she just left the airport.

Yeah, like she was walking to the restroom at the pool. Yeah, but it's got on a flight. I got on a flight and you're like, man, it's like the complete opposite. The best is when you see people at the airport they don't have any bags of any time. I talked, yeah, or a trash bag. I don't even suit it, but you're just like,

where's your stuff? Yeah. I'm going to, tomorrow I'm leaf early in the morning and I fly back from early at night and I'm still like, got a backpack and shit. Yeah. But you're like, what are you, where are you going? Where's your shit?

They've no stuff. I've seen checked all the things and then you're just gonna sit and stare on the airplane. When you see a hefty bag and you're like, all right. And you don't have to, you don't have a toomy bag. But dude, if you bought coffee today, you can get a backpack or something at Target. You just have all you shit in a trash bag, you're out of your fucking mind. But with regard to a tire, I think I was talking

to Kirk Fox about this because we were on a flight and we're like, look at these like animals, right? And I think we ended up getting to the conclusion when we were like, why don't people? And I think it's, some of it is tied to hope that it is a different culture and society and all these things. But you dress a certain way when you have some hope that life can get better. And if you completely believe that everything sucks and there's no way out of anything, then why would you care? I don't give a shit about what I'm wearing. Well, let's go back to Robert Carrot. So he obviously works for himself.

He's a whole man, super successful. He wakes up, he showers, he puts on a three-piece suit. And he goes to work and writes. Because when he was young, that's what a journalist, I mean, so that's what you watch all movies and the journalists are all dressed up. Yes, just it. Like, I mean, same with me, like I wake up

and I shower and I shave and I put on clothes and I go to my office because like, I mean, I could just walk in the other room and pull my laptop and do it on the couch, but I think there's something about being environment and transition and like showing up as a professional that you have to do. And I think, I mean, you're usually flying for work

or your life is also your work. And then some of these people, they're like, I'm just going to see my sister for three weeks. I'll wear pajamas. It will. I'm gonna wear pajamas tonight. So, my eyes will put them on this morning. Yes.

I don't know. I don't want to, like, there's certain clothes that I don't want to do. Like, if I put on sweatpants, I'm not gonna, I don't want to, like, there's certain clothes I don't want to do. Like, if I put on sweatpants, like, I'm not going to, I don't feel like working personally. Yeah. I think there's certain things that prime, I mean, you could probably got it out. You could, yeah, of course. But there's something about not being a slob that I think, I think people think of the

writer or the creative, like, in their bathroom, just walk around. They romanticize that whole thing. It's more like, actually, the more you treat it like a job, the more like, it's actually, it's like an important boundary, you know? When I show up to the office, like you're not supposed to wear like shirt sleeves in the oval office,

because it's like a sacred place. Oh really? You're supposed to wear like always a dress shirt. A jacket? Yeah. You can't walk in the oval office in a t-shirt, you know? Like, you? Yeah. You're supposed to wear like always a dress jacket. A jacket? Yeah. You can't walk in the Oval Office and a T-shirt, you know? Like, that's awesome. You can't, you know, there's a, or the Senate,

the Senate dining room, which I weirdly had breakfast in a couple of, you have to wear a suit. Like, you can't just, like, this is a place, there's some ceremony around the office. It's not about the person, it's about the stakes of what the people who are temporarily entrusted with the authority. There's a dining room at a door, Constitution Hall in DC that it was near the green room and they are like, somebody talked to somebody and they're like, you wanna see the room?

I was like, okay, and they're like, do you wanna people who've been in this room are like the members? Yeah. And the Dalai Lama, the last six presidents, and then they tell you a list of people that weren't allowed in the room. And they're like, okay, I'll check out the room.

So, they're like showing you the room and then they go, someone was like, show me, can we give them the carpet? And I'm like, okay. Oh, can I just imagine that? Yeah, that's what it is. But there's a room that is like a, this special reception room there, right?

Not the, not the, and there's a carpet. And they're like, this carpet is made by, I think it's the same person as the carpet of the old one. It's a very famous carpet maker. And so it's kept rolled up and they put it out just for special events. And then so they were like, they asked if I could, I think my tour manager asked and they were like, okay.

So then they had to move a bunch of furniture, roll out this carpet and I was like, wow, you see it and you're like, this is beautiful car, I don't know what to say, man. And they're like, you know, it's like $5,000 to square foot or something, you're like, oh, these shit and they're like, don't fucking bring a drink on that.

You're like, okay, okay. And then, you know, they let us take pictures of like, they're like take pictures of the carpet. Like it was a whole thing. Sat there and then they're just like, all right, and then it was a whole process. A team of people came, rolled it up, put all the stuff back and they're like, you understand the privilege

you just seen yourself. Do you have any like sacred things like in your space that you touch or think about? I like prime you to do what you do. To do work like that? No, well, if I'm writing, see, because writing stand-up for me is not writing the book or something or writing a script. That stuff, I do more like what you're asking right now, which is like, you know, I like looking

at this section of a, of a, um, a dresser and like a couple items. I like looking at this be uncomfortable phrase, like a reminder of it. Sure. Um, and so there's, and there are a couple photos, you know, so I'll do that. And then I just like to clear, I like to clear this, I find that I have a real trouble with like piles. And so I like to eliminate them before I work. And then for stand up, because stand up is more like, you know, you're kind of in a zone and you go, oh, yeah. And then you make notes of that. Sure. And then you do it. And then you listen to it maybe later and you make notes. But it's not it's not the same for me, not the same process of like I'm working on this

book or I'm working on this script. That's more in line. You're like show up for work. It's more like everything is your work. And stand up, I think I feel like you're kind of just going through things and it's about being tuned in. In other words, you can tune out and be like, I don't know how to write stand up material. But if you kind of lean in, you can figure it out. You can figure out how to do it. But it's not so much like I'm gonna set it at desk.

Interesting. But that is how writing the book works. Yeah, you know well, yeah, what do you do? Yeah, I mean I have my my office which is like near the bookstore and then I'm actually at just bought Joan Didian's desk chair Oh, and that's like that's like my new my new thing the desk chair. Is it an awesome desk chair? It's pretty cool I mean, it's like it's old. Yeah, she's like a little lady. The desk chair. Is it an awesome desk chair? It's pretty cool. I mean, it's like it's old. Yeah.

She's like a little lady, but her was. But so I just got that. And then I have like little things. Like I have this like still, I just found this cool. It's like a paleolithic stone tool that like humans, you know, chipped out of like a 1000, like a 1000s of years ago. And then I of, like a hundred, a thousand years ago. And then I also have a knife,

like a pen knife from when the Romans, so this would be like, oh, this could be a thing. Really? Yeah. A knife, like a little, like it's like, one of the knives that they stabbed Julius Caesar with, they're like a person would carry in their toga. Wow. And that's kind of just like sitting on my desk and fool with it.

Is it a fortune to get some of this? This is not, no. Really? But yeah, I have like little and then I have like not post-trail like prints or like like Is your is your being comfortable thing is just something you scroll or interesting? Yeah, like little like sort of mantras or reminders like that is really I think that is important. Yeah, just the space like I believe in vibe Vibe is a big thing. Yeah create a creative space. Yeah, there's no way you can ignore the vibe That's nonsense. I don't buy that at all. Yeah. No, it's all about the vibe in that room. Yeah, right now It's got too much bullshit in it though. Interesting half of it's's that free fucking shit we were just talking about. Right.

Yeah. I think you feel bad getting rid of. Yeah. Sometimes I move it from one pile to this pile to like a chair pile. So now it's all just sitting on this chair and I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. And someone comes into the office to sit down and I'm like, just move that shit over there.

Right. I hate it. I actually, it's making me upset right now to think about it because I know I should just go in there and spend the time. That's the thing is the time to make the room what it should be. Every time something coming out, I don't want this, I just throw it right in the trash. That's like, oh shit, they sent that so I could specifically test it and then talk about it in the podcast. You know, whenever I make the decision to get rid of the thing, it's always the wrong thing. You know, I just send that to you in the book.

But then I'll keep a fucking screw. I don't know where it goes. I'm like, well, that's just, what if I need that screw for something? We had someone like come, like, organize our house, and she was like, here's, there was a box of wooden boxes. You know, like stuff coming, it'll come in like a wooden box. And you're like, I can't just throw away a wooden box.

It's different than a cardboard box. Yeah, she's like, you have to pick how many wooden boxes you're keeping. Sure, you know. Yeah, because you, like zero wooden boxes. You go like a wooden box is pretty cool. Right, I feel the same way, but I'm such a ho for bags and pouch it.

Leather bound or something like, yeah, we should keep all those. I'll collect them to the point where I'm like, I don't know, I have many backpacks and bags I have. It's countless at this point. Whenever I do a talk and then they leave a bag for the shit in your hotel room, it's the backpack, then come home. And then yeah, we have literally a section of a house of backpacks. Backpacks, yeah.

And it's like, I have the backpack. I already, I bought the backpack that I used. Right. You know, like that's what I like. Yeah. The chances that this new free backpack is gonna go into the rotation is zero percent. It should be given away.

But you can't get rid of it. I know. I'm gonna go home right now and give away a bunch of shit. There's nothing anybody can say to talk me out of it. Do you have the stuff go to your house? That's the other problem. I try not to. But sometimes these assholes will be like,

here, this came for you and they put it in my trunk. Yes, you're fucking fault. I gotta play on somebody. Yes, right. Raise your hand. How are you taking home? They don't want it either. They're like, here you go. Yeah. Then I drive home and I'm like, what is this? I don't

know when I brought this home. Well, this isn't a car for like two months first. You know what? I'm going to start with these books. Guys, give me these fucking books. Here's a bag for the books. Oh, good. I love bags. I love bags. Great. This is I'm keeping this. The books are going to trash. Good, I love bags, I love bags. Great, this is I'm keeping this, the books are going to trash. Okay. All right. Dude, it was a real treat.

Yeah, this is awesome. Thank you for coming. My pleasure. I hope we can do it again. Yeah, I would love that. And something ever happens to Bert, which looks like it's probably going to, you can sit here all the time.

Okay. Oh yeah, what do we, what, a newest book? Wait, what's the newest one? The newest one is the daily dad one, but that's not out till May. Oh, it's not out till May. And the, but discipline system is the newest one. Okay, so that's the one that I was just reading. All right.

Disciplines, I honestly, I mean, I think you can tell. I really, really enjoyed it. It looks like there's some wear and tear on it. Oh yeah, man, I'm reading this thing. I have the obstacles the way here. Although it's the folder, it's the page folded. The cover folded because you didn't finish. No, I finished.

I finished. Marking something I liked. OK, I'm going to check. No, no. Shit. God. Do you think I'm not going to read the afterwards? No, on a podcast, you're like, I got 2, 3rds the way through.

No, no, no, no, I didn't, I didn't cue you. Um, well we'll do it again. And I recommend the book. I really highly recommend it. Discipline is death to me. Ryan Holiday, the Daily Stoic. Thank you very much, buddy. Thanks for having me. Bird time, time and bird.

One goes top and swath the other. Where's the shirt? Tom tells stories and birds. The machine. There's not a chance and hell that they'll keep clean. There's a lot of things that I can't do. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. I'm not going to be able to do it. One goes top and swat the other, wears a shirt Tom tells stories and birds the machine There's not a chance in hell that they'll keep the clean Here's what we call, two bears one cave

No scripts to bet a booze amateur for topology Dirty jokes, ronti humor, no apologies Here's what we call to bears one cave.