99% Invisible - 559- The Six-Week Cure

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

In the mid-1900s, people flocked to Reno, Nevada -- not for frontier gold or loose slots, but to get out of bad marriages.  The city became known as the "Divorce Capital of the World." For much of modern history, it has been relatively easy to get married, and extremely difficult to get divorced -- and for a time, this was true in the New World as well. But Reno provided the cure: The Six-Week Cure. 

This is 99% invisible. I am Roman Mars. This past summer, producer Ellie Gordon-Morshal took a trip to Reno, Nevada. While the temperature is approximately 150 degrees, maybe late July is not the best time for a pasty Canadian to visit Reno. The downtown sites are best seen after sunset anyway. All that neon, even on the cars. Where is it coming from, oh a car? That was nice. But I wasn't actually in Reno for the tricked-out cars,

or casinos, or cocktails. I was there on a run-of-the- mill 99 PI mission to find a bridge. Oh my god, now this is the bridge. I still can't get over how high pitched my voice goes there, but this was the Virginia Street bridge. A bridge I've heard many stories about. And apparently there's the long tradition of women throwing their ring in the river. This is Anne Stern. She grew up in Arlington, Virginia.

Her mother Pat came to Reno in the 1950s to throw her own wedding ring off this very bridge. Anne's mom was in Reno to get divorced, and she was taking part in what had become a final right of passage for Reno divorcees. You'd exit the courthouse with your new divorce decree, had two blocks to the trucky river, and fling your wedding ring off the Virginia Street bridge. All to symbolize your start as a newly liberated woman. She just said the tradition was throwing the ring,

and my mother did it too. Past lawyer was there to witness the whole thing and he was appalled. He couldn't understand how she could dispose of such a valuable asset so he literally ran into the river. He was all dressed up in his suit and he rolled up his pants and maybe took off his shoes. I don't know. And he walked out into that river and he found the ring. And he came back and he said, you may need this.

Stories like these were common in Reno because back then in the mid 20th century, it was internationally known as the divorce capital of the world. Reno was the best bet for people who were searching for illegal escape from a marriage gone wrong. Reno is a fascinating place to me because I love stories about divorce. I even had a friend once tell me that I was pro break up. She didn't mean it in a negative way. It was like she was just making an observation about one of my political beliefs. Here's the thing, both of my parents were divorced when they met and they never remarried.

So I didn't grow up thinking marriage was particularly important. And at the end of the day, a story about people falling in love is just not as interesting as a story about a divorce. But for much of modern history, divorce has been very hard to do. Especially when the Catholic Church ran the show. It's a sacred bond. God has blessed it, and God doesn't want you to separate. This is Rod Phillips. He teaches history at Carlton University in Ottawa and wrote a book on the history of divorce in the Western world. Divorce laws have historically been influenced by religious practice.

And when early settlers colonized the US, they brought a range of divorce customs from Protestant Europe with them. Yeah, the early set was the Puritans were Calvinists. You know, Calvin's divorce laws were in place in the Netherlands and in Patiswitzland, like Geneva and also in Scotland. So they all allowed divorce. And when they set up their colonies and established the statutes and the laws, they allowed divorce for two grounds of adultery and desertion. But not all the settlers were Puritans, of course. There were Quakers, Lutherans, Baptists, and also Anglicans who followed the Church of England, which at that time still did not permit divorce.

After American independence, matters of family law were assigned to each individual state. In other words, a state's government had the right to set the rules for how or even if you can attain a divorce. So divorce laws varied dramatically depending on what state you lived in. Some states offered several grounds for divorce while others were more conservative. And then there was New York, which only had one ground, adultery. And you had to prove it. Even if both parties in the marriage wanted out, they would need to literally stage a photo op for evidence.

That's where you have people getting into bed with somebody and having somebody jump in through the window with a camera and take a picture of them sitting up in bed fully closed. And everything, this is the evidence. This is the only evidence you need that the deltory had taken place. So if you lived in one of the matrimonially conservative states like New York and didn't have the resources to collude with your partner to stage an affair, you were left with one option.

Go West. The Western states tended to be more like a progressive in many respects. The Western states were newly colonized and didn't have the baggage of traditions. Just the baggage of colonization. So they looked around and came up with liberal marriage and divorce laws. They felt reflected the times. This is kind of an accepted component of our society here. And if people are going to get divorced anyway, you know,

get divorced somewhere, then we're going to be a community that embraces that. This is Alicia Barber, author and public historian based in Reno, Nevada. She says there were a few things that drew outsiders to Reno from its very founding. Because of its proximity to gold in silver mines, Reno was selected as a stop on the Central Pacific Railroad in the mid 1800s. This made the city easy to get to for lots of different types of people. So Reno kind of became the center of the whole region

and really has been this transportation crossroads ever since and then also a crossroads of many different people coming here for a lot of different reasons. But the big thing Reno had going for it was its short residency period. Much of the population of Nevada was transient, meaning they would come for short periods of time to take advantage of the mining rush. Nevada lawmakers realized if they lowered the time it took to become a resident, they could count this transient population as permanent and use them to gain more power in Congress.

So on the books, you know, by the turn of the century, you could become a state resident in six months, which was pretty quick. That meant people could become residents in a shorter period of time and in turn benefit from all the state's laws, including divorce. A shorter residency period and more liberal grounds for divorce meant that if you're wealthy enough to relocate for six months, it could technically be easier to become a temporary Nevada resident, secure a divorce, and then go home, rather than get divorced in your actual home state. Which of course made a lot of conservative politicians and social leaders in other states furious. They hated that residents could circumvent their own state laws and tried to ban this loophole. But in most cases,

an out-of-state divorce was protected by the Constitution. And in 1905, a famous young socialite named Laura Corey helped transform Reno from a city where you could technically get a divorce to the place to get a divorce. She was the wife of a prominent industrialist, William Cory. People didn't know why she was here, but eventually it became clear that she was here to get a divorce. The coverage of this divorce was in every major newspaper. That kind of precipitated then this awareness that Nevada and Reno in particular was a place where people could easily arrive on the railroad, establish their residency, and get over divorce and go on with their lives. So this became known as migratory divorce.

Luricory would just be the first in a parade of headline worthy Reno celebrity divorces. Early on it was a lot of actors from the Hollywood theatrical community, Nazi Goodwin and Virginia Harnet, the famous burlesque entertainer, Gypsy Rose Lee, divorced her third husband here. But then you can also think about socialites, you know, Vanderbilt's, Rockefellers, three of the children of Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt got their divorces in Nevada.

Soon enough, just a reference to Reno became shorthand for divorce. By 1910, the phrase, I'm on my way to Reno, or I'm going to Reno meant in people's minds I'm going to get a divorce. There was a popular song in 1910 called I'm on my way to Reno, and it was sung across the country. My wife and I don't get along with simply fighting fights.

I married her to Winnerbett, it really does me right. The love she once declared was mine had simply turned to hate. So I made up my mind to visit all Nevada State. I'm on my way to Reno. I'm leaving town today in my regards to all the boys and girls along Broadway." With Nevada's gold and silver mining depleted, politicians and businessmen and Reno were looking to take advantage of this new industry cropping up around divorce tourism. Nevada wasn't the only Western state that noticed the economic benefit of

luring in divorce seekers. Arkansas, Idaho, and Wyoming had all lowered the residency requirements as well. Sioux Falls, South Dakota was one of the first cities to take advantage of migratory divorce and was actually known as a divorce colony. But when the stock market crashed in 1929, there were rumors that Idaho and Arkansas were going to match Nevada's residency requirement, which had actually been lowered to three months by then. The country was entering the depression and Reno business leaders were desperate to hold tight to the one industry that remained in steady demand. And so in 1931 Nevada passed legislation that solidified Reno once and for all as the divorce capital of the world.

The state legislature reduced that residency period from six months to three months in 1927 and then to six weeks in 1931. With just six weeks needed to establish residency, Reno, Nevada offered the quickest and easiest path to achieving a divorce in the country. This quick and easy pathway expanded access to divorce not just for the rich and famous, but every day people who didn't have the luxury to take months away from their busy lives. In the same legislative session that lowered Reno's residency to an unheard of six weeks, the state of Nevada also legalized wide open gambling. With the offer of a quickie divorce, along with a side of cards, slots, and dice, Reno became an unbeatable destination for divorce tourists. People talked about you could sit at the main train station in Reno and you could watch the tide come in and the untied go out. It was mostly women that came for the Reno divorce and researchers offer a few explanations

for this. One is that in middle class marriages at the time, the wife would be less likely to work outside the home and therefore have the time to spend out of state. Divorce was also technically a type of lawsuit in which one partner had to sue the other to get out of the marriage. So it was seen as chivalrous for the husband to let his wife sue him for divorce because that way he wouldn't besmirch her reputation. It was a lawsuit.

You know, one person had to sue the other on grounds. You had to have a basis for suing to divorce someone. Unlike New York, which just had one single legal ground for divorce, Nevada had seven. And they ranged from adultery to things like desertion, imprisonment, later abandonment, impudency, but also one was extreme cruelty. Brutti was by far the most used ground for divorce and reno, and it was an open secret that it could be used as a catch-all for all sorts of grievances. You didn't need corroborating evidence to prove mental cruelty.

One husband claimed cruelty by his wife because she criticized his driving. Another said his wife accused him of being a German spy. Another simply claimed cruelty because her husband made her life dull. Valid reason for a divorce in my opinion. One of the stories was that people were camping along the Trucky River, because it was summer, so it would be nice to do that. And they were just camping out for there six weeks. This is Mela Rothwell-Harmann. Mela wrote her master's thesis on the history of the divorce trade in Reno during the Great Depression.

She says that since most divorce seekers didn't want to rough it outdoors for six weeks straight, locals improvised to cater to this influx of temporary residents. Even though it was a depression, that was a spike in building permits as people were rushing to build apartment houses and add on to their private homes to turn them into boarding houses and converting their garages to little cottages on their property to run it out. Were you stayed in Reno and who saw you there were very important pieces of information because you needed to provide both under oath. You give your address and then you have someone with you in court who would testify in your behalf.

They call the resident witness who would testify that you had been observed in Nevada every day for the six weeks. Many guest house managers even offered to act as the so-called resident witness as part of a divorce seeking package deal. Kind of like come stay at my accommodations and I'll testify that I saw you every single day for six weeks. One divorce seeking woman initially lied under oath claiming that she had stayed in Reno for the required six weeks when in truth, it had only been four. She was sent to jail for committing perchray, but by the end of her sentence, she had incontrovertible proof that she was in Reno the whole six weeks. Her resident witness turned out to be none other than the county deputy. I feel for this divorce seeking jailbird

for many reasons, but one is that she was denied the emotional support, which often came from the women who ran the boarding houses. They were taken in by the boarding house manager, oftentimes like a house mother, and cared for, and many people have written some really lovely comments about how important these people were. I read some of these guest book comments from the 1930s and they were so intimate. Full of inside jokes and intense gratitude, like, quote, you took my tears away over my divorce. Gave me a reason to think the future could be happy.

Well, mom used to try and console these ladies. This is joley fjjpehonic. It was her family's guest book. I read her grandmother and then mother ran a beautiful divorce guest house overlooking the trucky river. Sometimes they'd be up late at night with them just trying to console them. And I think they were grateful because she had this upbeat personality and was so outgoing and humorous. It was a delight to have that because otherwise it could be a pretty somber household. When Ann Sturm's mother came to Reno, she had to travel alone and leave her young children for six weeks. All for a divorce she didn't want in the first place. When Ann Sturms' mother came to Reno, she had to travel alone and leave her young children

for six weeks, all for a divorce she didn't want in the first place. I had heard my father and mother fighting, arguing, but I'd get in bed with my brother and cry. So that was a very clear memory. So I knew she was sleeping and I knew that she had to go to Reno and that she would be gone six weeks. It could have been a depressing and isolating time for Anne's mom. But luckily she had the means to stay at a luxurious dude ranch catered specifically to divorce women. It even had individual stalls for nude sunbathing. My mother was a big sun lover.

stalls for nude sunbathe thing. My mother was a big son lover. She came home with a no marks suntan. There are some really fun old photos of all the divorce seeking women that stayed at these dude ranches, wearing cowboy outfits,

eating dinners together, and horseback riding. So she went there, and I guess it was full of lots of other women. They're going through the same thing. And obviously she came home much happier than when she went because of all that therapy. You know, it wasn't formal therapy. It was group therapy just because all of these women were in the same boat. Something else that set Reno apart from other divorce tourism destinations was that

it wasn't only accessible to rich white women. One 1950 feature article in Ebony magazine reported that about 500 black women came to Reno to divorce each year. These women needed to rely on Reno's local black community for support, which at that time was very small. We also had a community that was very strong, as it was so small, and they couldn't do certain things in Reno. This is Shane Del Cohen. She's a former board member of our story, Inc., which is a non-profit devoted to stories that have been under

represented in northern Nevada history. She says black women coming into town for a divorce needed a support system that operated outside of the white mainstream. Although by the mid-1900s, many discriminatory laws were overturned in the state, there was still extensive discrimination in Reno. Nevada earned the nickname Mississippi of the West for having overtly racist and exclusionary practices. So if you were a black divorce seeker, it was essential to have local support to help navigate the city safely.

This support was made possible by a small, but tightly knit community held together by the local African Methodist Episcopal Church. The social life at that time was centered around the AME Church on Bell Street, which had a boarding house right next to it, and the church had chicken dinners for $1.50. Once a month, they had a book club, they had a little theatrical group, they did all sorts of things. That same 1950 article in Ebony Magazine features a photo of Reverend Thompson of the club, they had a little theatrical group. They did all sorts of things. That same 1950 article in Ebony magazine features a photo of Reverend Thompson of the Bethel

AME who welcomed strangers with this question. Are you here for the cure? The cure Reverend Thompson was referring to is the six weeks cure. A nickname referring to the six weeks it took to get a divorce in Reno and therefore be cured from your miserable marriage. I have to say I was initially confused by how welcoming the church was in an era when divorce was super taboo and so I asked Shane about that. Yes, the church ethic towards marriage and divorce was pretty conservative. But their compassion wasn't. Their compassion was all encompassing. But as important as the compassion was, it couldn't pay the bills.

Many of the people who came to Reno also needed money during their six weeks day. They needed a job. A number of the divorce seekers needed to find a job while they were in Reno in order to pay for their divorce and their residency here. And there were jobs available for both men and women. Men seeking divorces in Reno could find work as a mechanic or a ranch aunt. Even famous black marxist writer CLR James got work as a ranch aunt while he was in town for a divorce in 1948. If you were a woman, you could head over to the YWCA, which would help set you up with

a short-term gig like shop clerk, waitress, housekeeper, or stenographer, or you could find work in one of the many institutions Reno was famous for. Reno's casino industry was both entertainment for the divorce seekers, as well as a place for employment. Before the tourism industry, gambling mostly took place in back rooms and was geared towards a rougher local crowd. But with the flood of divorce tourists in town, casino owners were looking for new ways to appeal to these middle-class visitors. There was a very famous club called Haralds Club, that opened to the 1930s, that started to promote itself through a real kind of cartoony, western kind of theming that made it seem more like respectable fun and not just

some kind of sort of activity. Alicia Barber, again, she says one tactic of increasing respectability was hiring women, and there was one job completely perfect for the Reno intersection of gambling and divorce. The shill. There was a job known as a shill, where attractive women would be hired to just sit at one of the table games and play the game and look delighted, and try to attract other people to come.

In 2014, Mela Harmon spoke with a woman named Janice, whose mother was hired as a shill when she was out in Reno seeking a divorce in 1944. When she went up to get her divorce, she had to figure out a way to earn a living because she was going to be there for six weeks and I also think she'd been bored to tears sitting up there for six weeks trying to find something to do. So, but she was a very good card player. And she told me I didn't know they hired shields. You know what? But she said she'd sit at the black check table. There's even a story of a local woman

applying for a job at the same casino who recalled that everyone kept asking her, are you sure you're not here for a divorce? The general impression was that, you know, Renoites were pretty amused by it and thought, wow, this is just great, you know. So there was a lot of popular culture. And then this was the kind of publicity that really fed upon itself. So Reno's promoters didn't have to do anything to get this kind of publicity because the

media was just fascinated by it. In between juicy newspaper headlines, the American public was fed a steady stream of Reno divorce drama from Hollywood films. Really starting in the 1930s, there were a lot. There were three in production in 1931. It was just fertile ground for drama. Even Marilyn Monroe's last film, The Miss Fits, was about a Reno divorce.

In the scene, she stands on the famous Virginia Street Bridge and contemplates throwing her own ring in. Go ahead and I know everybody does this. More gold and that river than the river than the river in the Kwanai. The personal stakes were high for all of these women and Reno delivered. It was a refuge from social taboos, an opportunity for job experience, and a potential pathway to a more fulfilling marriage with financial security. If you manage to wear a cowboy hat, play the slots and have fun while at it, that was just a bonus. Reno's divorce era began petering out in the late 1960s, as divorce law became more liberalized

throughout the Western world. The migratory divorce industry in Nevada really ended in the 1960s with the introduction of irreconcilable differences and no fault divorce throughout the country. In 1969, California became the first state to introduce irreconcilable differences and no fault divorce. Previously, one spouse had to sue the other in order to get out of a marriage on specific grounds. Like adultery, we're being a germist by. But no fault divorce meant you didn't need to prove wrongdoing anymore.

Other states quickly followed California's lead and adopted similar divorce laws. And that really pretty much put an end to it, because then it wouldn't be any harder to really get a divorce in other places than it was in Nevada. It might be faster in Nevada, but the fact that you didn't have to sue anymore just made it more widely available and efficient throughout the country. Reno held the title of Divorce Capital the World for a little over six decades and helped to bring an end to tens of thousands of marriages. Even though today visitors may not be aware of Reno's divorce history, it altered the identity of the city forever. It was divorced that really was largely the inspiration for this slogan that we have

for, you know, which is the biggest little city in the world. That was about the fact that for its size, which was small, modest, little western town, Reno was so much more cosmopolitan than you would expect. And that, in many ways, was due to the fact that you had all of these people coming from outside to get divorces from much more cosmopolitan urban centers. And they brought something with them. And that did stay with Reno, and that really, in combination then

with the legalization of gambling, created the tourism industry that has continued to this day in the state of Nevada. And now, a good 50 years after the end of Reno's reign as the divorce capital of the world, I approached the Virginia Street Bridge, the bridge where women cast off their wedding rings for decades and was shocked by a sight. Oh my god, there's love locks here now. Ironic!

Love locks. Like those padlocks, you sometimes see on famous bridges. That thing where a couple inscribes their initials attaches the lock the bridge, and then throws away the key, all to symbolize unbreakable love or whatever. Needless to say, I was startled, then annoyed by this discovery. This was a bridge of liberation, how dare it be vandalized by relationships literally represented by shackles. But then, up until recently, I had no idea Reno's famous casinos were employers of unhappily married women. So maybe I was missing the story behind these locks, too.

It's about love of yourself. Maybe these are locks dedicated to self-love. Who am I kidding? But at the very least, these couples already know of a fun place to get divorced. After the break, Ellie comes back to tell me about a different Canadian who visited Reno and wrote a very influential book about it. So we're back with producer Ellie Gordon-Morshal. Thank you so much for that story, Ellie. It was a fun divorce story. I told you it would be. I know and you delivered. But one thing I did not mention in the story is that I actually brought my girlfriend on my Reno divorce trip. That's kind of a strange couple's getaway to do your divorce story with your partner.

Okay, I think it's romantic. But one of the afternoons who are there, we were trying to find some postcards. First, at an actual feminist bookstore slash cat adoption center, but it was closed, sadly. However, next door, someone had spotted us and kind of was like, oh, why don't you come in here and check things out? And it turned out that place was the Northern Nevada LGBTQ center. Nice. And so when I told the executive director why we were in town, she was like, oh, come here and take a look at this. And she rolled out a big movie poster. And on it was a 1950s convertible.

There's two women standing in front, one in modest white heels, and the other in like cool cowboy boots. And the slogan across the top red, in 1959 Vivian Bell came to Reno for a quicky divorce. Of all the people she met there, the one that most surprised her was herself. So I recognized it immediately,

because it's for this film called Desert Hearts, which is beloved in the queer community because it was the first mainstream lesbian film to have a happy ending. Wow, okay, so what year did this come out? It came out in 1985, which is actually the year I was born, but it was just one of those things and films I just knew about, you know,

like out of the lesbian cinematic universe, but the film was actually based on a novel that came out in 1964 called Desert of the Heart by an author named Jane Rool. Tell me more about Jane Rool. She was a fellow Canadian, and she did pass away in 2007. And even though I hadn't heard of her, she was a well-known literary figure in some circles. I would say she was besties with Margaret Atwood. It turns out Jane rules archives are at

the University of British Columbia. And when I was looking through them, I felt like there was like hundreds of letters from Atwood. And on a shallow note, I have to when I was looking through them, I felt like there was like hundreds of letters from Atwood and on a shallow note, I have to say I was pleased to see that Margaret Atwood's handwriting is just as bad as mine. They're just like us. So tell me about Jane's connection to Reno, like what prompted her to write this book? Yeah, so I've read Desert of the Heart about a year ago. That is how I found out about the Reno divorce history. That's why this episode exists. And unlike the movie version, there's just so much detail about the older character coming into town for a Reno divorce. And the detail of it made me think like Jane must have gone to Reno, but I just I just could not find that out in the research online.

gone to Reno, but I just could not find that out in the research online. But then an acquaintance of a friend emailed and was like, I'm pretty sure James Long-term partner Helen went to Reno for a divorce. And I was like, oh my god, and I was so excited. And that's why I went to the archives in the first place. And yeah, sure enough, Helen did travel to Reno for a divorce and Jane went with her. So the book came out in 64. So when did she experience Reno? She was there in 1958, which was nearing the end of sort of Reno being the divorce capital, but I would say it probably still was very much experiencing the heyday of that. And Jane had written to her parents that Helen couldn't get a divorce in her home state,

Massachusetts, because most of the judges were Catholic. And while they were both in Reno, Jane actually got a job at a casino. Oh, we see one of the chills you were talking about. She did learn about chills from an employment agency, and she did try and get a job as one at the MAPES casino, which is actually where Desert Hearts was filmed decades later. But the manager took one look at her and said, sorry, lady.

And this is just me guessing, but I think it's because Jane Ruel was a six foot tall lesbian. I see. So she wasn't like the typical shill material. No, she was not. But she did end up getting a job at Harold's Club. And so what did she do for Harold? She had this job called Change Girl, which involved lugging around 40 pounds of coins for customers that needed to break their bills for the slots. And she wrote an excited letter to her parents about the job, and that the experience was probably

destined to give her writing material, which of course it was. And then the bonus of a frontier outfit that she could bring back to Vancouver. Okay, so she's down there with Helen. I assume Helen got her divorce. So what happens then? Yeah, she got her divorce. Her and Jane went back up to BC. And in one of the letters I saw written, you know, during this time, Jane got her divorce. Her and Jane went back up to BC. And in one of the letters I saw written during this time, Jane mentioned her own marital status.

She was writing to her parents. She was responding to what must have been a letter about them being worried that Jane herself would never get married. And so Jane was writing them back and said, I haven't the biggest desire to get married. And then she goes on to say that she doesn't feel too guilty about it because I'm fairly sure that you're rather fond of who I am, which is very sweet. She wrote them a lot.

Yeah, that's very sweet. So Helen passes away in 2000, which is before gay marriage is legalized in Canada. But I have to say like knowing what I know about Jane rule, I really don't think they would have ever married anyway, but they stayed together for the rest of their lives, and their ashes are at the Galliano Island cemetery. And so where is Galliano Island?

It's actually pretty close to Vancouver. It's part of the Gulf Islands that are just a fairy ride away. And Roman, I didn't plan this, but my girlfriend, and I actually booked a cabin for the weekend right before this episode drops on Galliano Island. And a couple days ago, I looked up the cemetery and our cabin is literally steps away. Wow. Wow. That's so cool. So you're going to go and pay your respects. I definitely will. I want to thank Jane for introducing me to Reno. Well, I'm glad she introduced you to Reno. And then I'm glad that you introduced us to Reno.

So thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you. 99% of us vote with Brutes this week by Ellie Gordon-Morshal, edited by Vivian Leigh. Sound mixed by Martin Gonzalez, music by Swan Rihall, fact checking by Graham Haysha. Special thanks this week to Marie and Laura Joe.

Our executive producer is Kathy too. Delaney Hall is our senior editor, Kurt Kohlstedt is our digital director. The rest of the team includes Sarah Baker, Chris Barouba, Emmett Fitzgerald, Christopher Johnson, Jason Dalyone, Lashemadon, Jacob Maldonado Medina, Kelly Prime, Joe Rosenberg, and me Roman Mars. The 99% of his below goatgo was created by Stefan Lawrence.

We are a part of the Stitcher and Series XM podcast family, now a headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora building. And beautiful. Uptown, Oakland, California. You can find us on most social media platforms, but those feel pretty bad these days, but I can't recommend one place that does feel good. Our website, 99pi.org