A Geek History of Time - Episode 04- Thatcherism and Warhammer 40,000

Episode Date: April 27, 2019

This is a geek history of time. Where we connect nursery to the real world. I'm Damien Harmony, I am a father, I'm a Latin teacher, and I am also a huge geek. I'm Ed Blaluck, I'm a father, a couple of years older than Damien. I'm a world history teacher and I'm also a huge geek. I have been playing role-playing games since about the age of nine and I've been a science fiction fan far longer than that. I was raised to be a Star Wars fan kind of by accident. I don't think my parents realized they were warping me in that way.

Ah, warping. Yeah. Because that's Star Trek. That's, yeah. I've had a long and abiding interest with science fiction. Not so much the books, but more like the visual media, the more spectacular, the better. Also grew up a huge Star Wars fan. Saw Star Wars in utero. so I heard the sounds probably. There you go. Fell asleep at two years old when Darth Vader entered and Empire strikes back. Woke up and yes I was too. Woke up and wanted to be black like him because he was the hero.

My mom said I couldn't be because being shiny plastic black was not something I could do I of course then said you never let me do anything I want to do nice So that's that's a bit of my geek cred. I've been playing role playing games probably since eight Seriously since probably 13 and now as a father bringing other kids into it since my daughter turned five as a father bringing other kids into it since my daughter turned five. Lately I've been reading a few books. One of the ones I've gone back and started reading again is Punching Nazis and other good ideas by Keith Goldjensen. It's an exploration of the punk scene in Sacramento in the 90s as well as why it's okay and in

fact, recommended that we punch Nazis. You read Nanny Bonn? Every opportunity. I think really and twice on Sundays. Right now I've been doing an awful lot of background reading on what we're gonna be talking about today. And I am Working my way through honor in the dust a history of the American occupation of the Philippines and when I'm not doing either one of those two things, I'm trying very hard to do my homework in Myers' swordsmanship manual from the 1500s.

And so right now, as far as what gaming I'm actually doing, I'm really excited to be waiting for the arrival of the newest battle tech Basic box set I pre-ordered a while ago because I'm I'm I'm a whore for these kinds of things I'm a collector as much as anything else and it says some gorgeous models in it So that's a miniatures game. Yes. Yes a tabletop war game that we're gonna be talking about in another episode and several new episodes coming out sure and I have been kind of dormant in our D&D game, but I missed you. Yeah, well, I've missed you guys. And I am right now equally dormant in a first edition A D&D campaign with a

different group of friends. How about you, what do you got going on? Well, my children are on the third level of their dungeon. My son is silly about trains and it turns out there are train tracks on this level because it's they're going through an old mine. My daughter tried to hide on it from a nomish wizard who controls zombies. The zombies attacked her cart and disengaged the break and she went rolling down to Neonah Jones style.

So there's a lot of fun for the two of them. I like it. And they've been fighting zombies and they've found out that their cleric is actually pretty good at turning the undead. The other game that I'm playing is the game that we started playing together and that is a fifth edition D&D game. We just finished killing off a bunch of noles, killed a displacer beast,

as well as a human wannabe noob. I miss an out, my friend. I am. Something about being a good dad. Yeah, I kind of get to kind of crimp the style. Yeah, so and eventually hopefully my little brother will start up a sion game. So I'm really looking for.

Internal squeaking intensifies. Yes, yes, I really looking forward to that because I also got in on the kickstarter for that. So nice. Eventually get the hard copies. Very cool. Yeah. Ed, I got a question for you. Yeah. Do you like stuff? I like stuff. You like things? Some things. Yeah. Not all things. But there's a pretty broad section of things I do like yes okay thanks Alexa yeah that that was not creepy thank you shady government listening device yeah bzos it's worse yeah so actually half and half yeah but this is a part where we would actually advertise for things and stuff yeah if there was any kind

of a pitch going on here, it would be worth it. This would be where you know, if you have stuff you want to sell to people who are things, to people who are like hardcore raging nerds, we are your people. We will chill, well not anything. Not a lot of stuff. We'll chill for a little bit. We'll totally show. So like, for instance, if you were going to, like, I don't know, advertise for these delicious cinnamon rolls

that you buy at Nugget every time you come over to my house, you might talk about how they're both sweet, yet slightly savory, and how they're bite-sized, and yet each bite is a satisfying bite. I mean, it doesn't leave you wanting for anything. Yeah, no. And they're essentially crack in a box as far as the hit that you get from them. Yes. And if I like cinnamon, I would be all over the

map. I remember the last while I try one thinking, I should like them. I should like these. And if I did like them, I would like these. Yes. Yes. So there we go. That's us that's us attempting to be clever and what are you selling stuff? That's that's things giving an ad. Giving an ad so you'll hear more of those hopefully we can get a sponsorship and and start making some money off of this and advertising for things who knows maybe mattresses. I would like I like sleep. I don't very much of it right now But I love it. I so much. I don't like sleep at all I feel like I'm missing out like yeah, yeah, it bothers me

Oh, and it bothers me that it bothers me like I recognize it's something broken So there's there's like there's like meta-bother going on there. Oh massive on a huge metal Yeah, that's yeah, it's it's it's not good. I lose a lot of sleep over it One of us is a stand-up comic. Can you tell who it is ladies and gentlemen? So yeah, and then we advertise other things that we also like so yeah, mattresses or linens or or I don't know like dice dice Chessics throw some money our way. Yeah, or your guys friendly local gaming store Yeah, you know, that doesn't run far to the right of the Koch brothers. Like I'd be happy to show you. I think I'd be okay. You know, we would be okay, Shirley for your kids, you know, on some days. Yeah, yeah, for a good. But, yeah, so we would definitely advertise, of course, such things.

But in the meantime, I would just tell you to go out and buy Key Lowell Jensen's book, Punching Nazis and other good ideas. It's a fun read, the chapters are short. They're very personal. It's very funny. He has a stand-up comment as well. Oh, yeah. And I've seen him do his stuff. He is very funny. I can believe that book is well worth reading.

And I'm just going to throw out hair because, you know, I want to try to, you know, beg favors from somebody. If you're going to buy a training sword. Hey geek nation. Something went wrong with the audio. So cut out the beginning of the intro. But rest assured, the Ed was shilling hard and doing a really good job of it, and then his opening to the Warhammer 40K essentially amounted to me not knowing much of anything and making a joke about Margaret Thatcher's

butt. I apologize for the interruption, but we're going to pick up right where we left off, because it was still very early in the process process and his explanation still works really well. This is him here as well, but it's a lot less formalized. You know, if you have more money, you're kind of an upper class, but there's not the same in the south in that color. Well, yeah, well, yeah. But so, yes, I think to a certain extent there was there was a great deal more

Buy-in in terms of look we're we're all in this together keep our sticks on the ice kind of thing Which I just used a Canadian is I'm talking about the UK Nobody get on me about that. I'm trying here. So But the word yeah, well, yeah, the war ends in 45 and yeah, their their economy is still a shit show. They're a fumbling weak man and in a whole boxer who's like had more than the fights they should have. Yes, they used to be the champion. A lot of head blows. A lot of blows to the head. Punch strong now. And economically speaking. And then so in the UK rationing didn't stop with the blows to the head. Yeah, punch strong enough. Yeah, and economically speaking. And then, so in the UK, rationing didn't stop with the end of the war.

Okay. Rationing stayed in place until 1954, and in some cases after the war, because all the boys came home, rationing actually got stricter. Right. And as a result of all of this in 45 as the war ends the conservatives lost control of parliament Okay, now the conservatives had win Churchill. Yeah, Churchill was the the guy the leader of the of the conservative party at that point now

How long have they been in power? They had been in power. I remember seeing this, but I didn't write it down in my notes. They've been in power since the, I want to say, the before the war. So like, I've been in it. So like, 34, like, 34? Okay. They've been in power for a long time. Okay.

And I'll, at some point, have to look it up and issue some kind of correction. But they had been in power for a long time. And at some point, I'll have to look it up and choose some kind of correction. But they had been in power for a long time. And at the end of the war, everybody said, look, we're sick and tired of this. The war is over. And they elected labor. And labor took control of parliament in 1945. And they nationalized 20% of the nation's economy over the course of the next several years

they laid 20% of the nation's economy got nationalized now in in our terms how much of our economy is nationalized now um by way of comparison not anything like 20% okay and again smaller society smaller smaller society so it's much more yeah so it's more acutely felt so as Examples of what they did they found in the national coal board and they nationalized the Bank of England in 1946 that nationalized all of coal production Which back then was energy production right and the the central bank was taken out of private hands nationalized That's 46 wow they formed the national health service forty six nationalized they nationalized health care right then forty six okay now it's interesting to note a national health service had been proposed in a white paper by conservative members of parliament back in

nineteen forty two but it was under the at Lee ministry this this liberal climate at Lee. Yeah, yeah, I think the last one who had been in charge in the in the labor party, right? Like leading up to the conservative takeover. Yeah, yeah, so so at Lee took over as as Prime Minister and they they enacted this the National Health Service under him. it started operations in 48. So, okay. In 1946, again, the very next year after they took control of parliament, they passed the National Insurance Act, which instituted an old age unemployment and infirmity pension paid for by workers, with a flat national insurance fee. It's kind of the British version of Social Security,

which is on that side of the pond is much more inclusive. It covers a lot more stuff. Okay. Along with this, soldiers pensions were increased. And a greater number of soldiers pensions got paid out. After World War I, there had been like three out of four, I'm sorry, after World War I, it had been one in three. So one claim out of three for Soldiers pension got paid.

What, wait, I'm sorry. In order to qualify, there were conditions that you had to meet as far as being wounded, suffering, it was like a disability pension. Oh, okay, so it wasn't just a, you've served in the Armed Forces, you're gonna get a pension. It was specifically like VA help.

Yeah, because I was thinking in terms of the bonus marchers. Oh, yeah. America. Yeah, no. Where they're like, we were promised a bonus. Yeah. And if you like, promise something, you should deliver on it.

You should deliver on it. You should deliver on it. Yeah, and then you send MacArthur to kick them all out of the park in front of the White House. Or you send your wife to bring them tea and make things better. Yeah, well, yeah. You pick one. Well, we did.

So before World War I, it had been one in three of these. It had been paid by the government. After World War II, after 46, they started paying out three out of four. So they're covering a much greater percentage. They're providing a benefit to a much greater percentage of these guys. In 1949, they then exempted these benefits from taxation. So the income you got from the old age pension,

unemployment pension, all of this, totally untaxed. It's after tax income. So essentially, if you're a wounded soldier and you get a pension back then of like 5,000 a year, you and I have no idea what in real dollars that would be, but let's pretend 5,000 because that's easy for me to do math. Prior to that, you'd have to pay tax on that. And then after that, they said, no, no, all of our tax money went into paying that for

you. Boom. Bingo. Okay. Yeah. And so they, they, they example. But they're really taking care of that for you. Boom. Bingo. Okay. Yeah. And so they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, Okay. I mean, they could, they could, you know, try to resist, they could try to come up to works, do whatever they, you know, like like a parliamentary minority. Yeah. If your party's in charge, it gets to do.

It gets to do what it wants to do. And then there's actual accountability. And there's actual accountability. And you could go with the election. You could go with the election. You could go with the election. You could go with the election. You could go with the election.

You could go with the election. Yeah. Okay. And so also in 1946, at the same time that they're increasing pensions, that they're nationalizing with those parts of the economy that I mentioned, they instituted a development program to dramatically increase the availability of housing. They passed two pieces of legislation.

In 46, it was the New Towns Act, and in 47, it was the Town and Country Planning Act and that gave local authorities So think the UK kind of and it essentially freed up the equivalent of county government Okay, in the United States terms gave them more freedom to obtain property to build publicly funded housing, subsidized housing. Okay. They provided housing to people with subsidies for rent. Okay. Okay. So you've got now the beginnings of the state that we see in

the UK today where, you know, low income housing is heavily subsidized by the government. Right. You know, the government is spending money in a very keen zian manner in order to generate prime to pump. Yeah. And so, when we're doing the depression leading into the war. Yeah. So, four out of five homes built under this plan were council housing, which is, you know, publicly funded, you know, subsidized, you know, housing.

Now just real quick, I would also point out that there were other countries that were doing things like this in the 1930s. Yes. The Soviet Union, that's an obvious given. Well, yeah. But also Nazi Germany was really on this. Yes. What's interesting about the welfare state, there's there's there's everybody's in a lot of historical a lot of historical Inc. Has been spilled over the the the welfare state and people who are Hardcore libertarians hardcore small government type people really like to point out that you know

This is what you know Stalin and the Nazis were these welfare state types. I like the those two are in the same category. Without the word fighting. Yeah, way. We will. Well, you know, yeah. And they like to point that out, but you know, so was Bismarck. Yeah. I don't even bother.

Bismarck, yeah, well, you know, and the thing is there were, they had different reasons, you know, on the left, politicians wanted to enact the welfare state in order to eliminate social inequality. On the right, politicians saw the value of the welfare state as a way to blunt communist and socialist revolution. It was, you know what, if we give people what they want, we can still maintain liberal democracy as we know it now with these kind of modifications, or we can try not to do

this, and we can have the threat of a workers' revolution where we all wind up against the wall with blindfolds, and I know which one I prefer. And so everybody... So everybody... ...see this movement to where the welfare state from, the very far right and and so everybody see this movement where the welfare state from the very far right Yeah, and from the kind of center left right, you know the far left well Stalin and and you know the Soviet Union did this stuff out of the socialist, you know ideal But then on in the moderate left it's we don't we don't we don't want to have the far left get control of things and kill us too.

And so it's yeah, there's this tension. Everybody in Europe culturally is on board for a welfare state. Yeah, on that side of the Atlantic, it became part of, and I'm flaking on the term whatever the window is of what rational discussion Oh, okay rational idea like it was just part it was yeah, it was it was it was yeah It was it was the background social contract kind of understanding Under which everybody operating was this is this is the paradigm under which right in which we're all gonna Operate politically and mix it in the 70s even said we're all Kenzians. Yeah, like like Nixon. Yeah, Nixon you know, I did Nixon God say so so so everybody's on board for this. Yeah, yeah, and we had programs across our on our side of the pond that we're absolutely about that we're I mean well

You know during the depression we almost got there. I mean, FDR's WPA is one of the biggest examples I can think of, public construction, all that kind of stuff. And then even after that, the idea to put together public housing, federally funded public housing. Well, the GI Bill. Yeah, GI Bill. The GI Bill, our version of soldiers' pensions.

Very, yeah. In a lot of ways, with a very, we think the GI Bill. Yeah, the GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. The GI Bill. the G. So their idea was mentality hasn't we as a country have not absorbed also the geography like you can spread out And yeah, we come from a country of people who said I don't like this. I'm leaving. Yeah, and we came here and Pushed everyone else to the side. Yeah, well, and as soon as and the people who got here looked around and went I got too many neighbors. I'm leaving right west. I got too many neighbors. I'm leaving I went, you know, and and now you get out to San Diego and they built piers. Yeah, it's go further, further west.

Yeah, as far as they could go. Where England is in Ireland. So they got a chance. There's not a lot of places to go. Not a lot of what we're going. OK, yeah, I just want to point out that when we were talking about England a moment ago, whoever's listening to this, you know, all three of you.

Thank you both of you. Yeah, thank you. You couldn't see it, but talking about Britain being in Ireland, we both held our hands up in this kind of, you know, jagged, kind of, you know, contained space kind of way. So, so these two, this housing was constructed. There's over a million new homes built by 1951. Now did they ban the Jews like we did? No. Okay, so it's not. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's not Levitown. Okay. Levitown, privately funded, right. You know, somebody making a buck. This is welfare state,

different, different, very different. So, and understand, when I was reading the article that I got this information from, they mentioned over a million new homes were built during this period of time, and they said said this did not meet targets, but it is an achievement nonetheless. Right. This was ambitious stuff. This was... Like you said, they've been blitzed.

Yes. Not only have they been blitzed, but also they lived in a society prior to this where housing was woefully inadequate, especially in urban centers. Yes. So they're really trying to fix that because one thing that creates hotbed for fascism is and poverty. Revolutionary Marxism.

Any kind of revolutionary ideology. I just don't want to horseshoe that. Well, yeah, no. They fought against. Yeah, yeah, no, I asked them. Although they were definitely afraid of. They were terrified. Absolutely.

That's the reason I want to make sure to mention Marxism, living in that space is because That's what they were afraid of. As far as they knew fascism was dead. Yeah Good times French philosophers actually at least said well shit to come back. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, so okay So anyway, sorry Sad face so so yeah, they missed their targets, but it was an achievement nonetheless. Very British kind of way of saying it.

We kept our end up, very post-war British way of saying it, this should be very clear. So, in 1947, they nationalized the electrical grid, and formed British Electric Authority. British Transport Commission was formed in 1948, nationalizing railways, inland waterways, and not all, but a significant portion of road haulage. So like teamsters? Yeah, okay, yeah. So now it should also be noted here at the same time

that broadcast media had been run as a pseudo arm of the government. I mean, they had, you know, independence, uh, editorial league, journalistically, but it was funded by tax dollars. There was a national license that you have to pay had to pay back then still I think do. Uh, yes, you do. You have to pay a license fee if you buy a TV set or a radio. That's part of the purchase price of whatever you're buying and that pays for on TBB and so the BBC Had been this semi-governmental part of the economy since the 20s even even earlier than that now So when we talk about the consensus except for

very specific differences of position on nationalization versus private enterprise and a tug of war over nationalized versus local control of services, both labor and the conservatives subscribed to what we call the post-war consensus. Wealth air state was built largely by labor and allowed to remain in place by the conservatives. So in 51, you'll notice the date 51 comes up a lot in some of the stuff. That's because that's when the Atley Ministry went away, because they went for new elections and the conservatives won just narrow enough a majority to take back control of the government and Churchill returned. By the way, I very highly recommend, very highly recommend, the Netflix series The Crown about Elizabeth,

current Queen Elizabeth, the second, and the portrayal of Churchill in that series is a remarkable acting tour de force. And it goes into the political infighting and the concerns that everybody in the conservative government had during that time in the 1951-52 era. It's remarkable. It's great TV. Also said at that time as a TV show that I used to watch, I would like to get back to it eventually,

but call the midwife. Yes. And it's talking about the foundation of the NHS. Yeah, and it's set. I have not had the chance to catch it, but everybody who has seen it tells me how great it is. It's really good.

OK, so both parties were Keynesian. Both parties were like, no, prime the pump, fuel, fuel fuel job creation by putting all the money we can into the economy You know the government if the government runs a deficit That's okay because We'll get there eventually and to a certain extent Keynesian economics is based on the idea that it's all monopoly money at the end of the day anyway You know that's that's the promise or he knows yeah, you know, that's that's that's that's that's kind of the the man behind the curtain in King's Inism, but and so they they all supported significant government spending

to greater lesser extent. Labor was like, no man, we're going to spend all the money. Conservatives were like we're going to spend most of the money, you know, was the difference. So even after the Conservatives gained power in 51, the underpinnings of this new welfare state were left intact, labor, like we talked about, labor saw it as a way to equalize society, class system, and the conservative saw it as a way to keep actual communists at bay, because that's what they were now terrified of, we beat the Nazis and now we have Stalin and Guys that came immediately after him, Krushchev and those guys and oh my god They're terrifying and they're the reds like we've talked about in a previous episode

And I got there all they're coming for us and so power changed hands between parties after this But no one rejected the nobody rejected the basic notions that hey look this is the system we're operating under this is this is how things work. Now at the same time all of this was going on domestically the Empire, the British Empire, the one that the sun had never set on at least in over a century was falling apart. It's important to remember that pre-war in the 20s, Britain had controlled 23% of the world's population and 24% of its land mass.

Wow, that's something for an island nation that had a navy. Yeah, that had the most powerful navy in the world, British navy. But the navy doesn't seize. They're not ground pounders. No, they're not. But British Tommies had been marching all over the world and in an interesting parallel with the Romans,

one of the things the Brits were really good at doing was taking control of an area, giving some level of semi-local control to the people living there, and then getting them to buy into the empire and send their soldiers to fight on behalf of the empire. This is what got us EDM, by the way. This is what, yeah, literally he's a British special service

fighter. Yes, yes. Yes, this is what got us Gherk is yeah who are Possibly possibly the most terrifying individuals on the planet. Oh like not pickles. No, not Gherkins. Oh, okay Gherk us Sorry, I didn't hear it. Yeah, yeah, I was like oh, you know, you know, no species. Yeah, no nice. Yeah, that's getting green. Yeah No, but yeah, like Gherk got a scary shit. Yeah, they're terrifying. And a whole bunch of other provincial military kind of units that spent a lot of time bleeding and dying in World War II for the sake of the crown back in England. Right.

You know, while they never see. Well, they never see. They were fighting the Japanese off in Asia. They were fighting the Nazis in Africa, you know the Italians in Africa. And you know if you want to hear somebody who's bitter about the British Empire, talk to anybody who is an Anzac soldier

and you'll get some stories, you know. And so. So this empire is crumbling. This empire now is crumbling, but I want to talk a little bit about just exactly how big it had been. If I say that it stretched from Cape Town to Zanzibar, that doesn't sound like much, because that's not very far, but it stretched from Cape Town to Zanzibar the long way round. Like when they said the sun never set on the British Empire literally right it

was always daylight somewhere where there was a British flag flying and the whole thing was run from and for the benefit of Britain. Now it's biggest part was India in terms of the Jule in crown, in terms of population and economic importance. That was it. But, you know, there were vital resources in Burma, in Malaya, in other parts of, you know, in Africa and other parts of the Empire that were economically critically important. The smallest part would be hard to define, but the Falcola Islands are probably in contention, and we're going to get back to that. More penguins than people. Yeah. Between 45 and 65, the Empire gradually

fell apart. Actually, fun little statistic about that. Prior to 1945, any uprising by a colonial power by people who'd been colonized by Europeans found zero success up to 1945. After 1945, not a single one found failure. Yeah, it's really quite something. No, well, yeah. It is a very stark reminder of just exactly how badly Europe got the shit kicked out of it. Well, and also when you train people to go shoot other white people, they learn they can shoot white people. Well, and also when you train people to go shoot other white people, they learn. They can shoot white people. Yeah, and they learned that they can actually be pretty good at it.

Yeah, and like they don't let go of that training after. Yeah, no, you don't train them to go fight and then have them suddenly forget. So to save your empire, you have enabled your empire to be lost. To be, yes, you have, which is good. Well, yeah, you know. So between 45 and 65, empires falling apart, and the Atley Ministry actively worked to decolonize,

starting with India, because they're spending all this money at home. Right. They don't have the money to spend on trying to make sure India stays part of the empire to make sure the South Africa stays part of the Empire Right, you know, so it was a conscious choice. It was yes There was at least by the the first labor government after the war There was a conscious choice to try to keep them in place

You know Churchill railed against it after he came back into power. He didn't want to let India go Right, I mean, you know and that's it. Bevin was against it. Yeah came back into power. He didn't want to let India go. I mean, you know, and that's against it. Yeah, you know, and so that was one of the big differences between conservatives and labor during this time period was, you know, whether or not to hold on to the Empire, labor was in power immediately after the war and they were like, yeah, well, no, we're doing it. No, we're doing it. You know, Indian Pakistan split off in 47. A head of the ministry's schedule. The ministry had been like, we're going to let him go.

It's so very British. We're going to let him go. Yeah, we're going to let him go in 48. Right. They're going to, they're going to, they're going to, you know, as we need to squeeze more resources. We're ready. Well, you know, and there was this fear of wealth.

We let them go too soon. They're not, they're not going to understand what they're doing. We have to train them up better. And good on them for at least acknowledging that we need to train civil servants because Belgium left the DRC. They unscrewed the light bulb and left. They heard from the last one, turn off the lights, right? And you know and take the light take take all the wiring actually took light bolts. Yeah, really.

Yeah, they really had not known that. Yeah, holy cow. Yeah, well, you know, I screwed. Thanks for all the rubber. Yeah, screw the Belgian. Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, one of them's ever been any good as her kill poireau. Um, and he's victorious. You only one of them has ever been any good as her Qil puaro. I'm going to be getting a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit we need it. But Mount Batten, who was there, who was the last vice-roy, said, if we try to hold on to him any longer, they're

going to kill everyone. And I mean everyone. They're going to kill all of us, Brits, who are here because we're the man keeping them down. And they're going to kill each other because they've wanted to kill each other for the last 400 years or however long it's been that we've been here and we've been stoking those fires to be honest. We have been on the one hand actively stoking those fires and then on the other hand doing stuff to keep them you know from doing that. We've been oppressing both of them in ways to keep them from doing that. Once we're gone, the lid will blow off the pressure cooker and, you know, and, and so in

47, Mount Badden said, we can't hold onto him that long. And they moved the time he moved the timetable up. And when they split, basically, there, I mean, anybody who studied the history of that knows that all of the Muslims who were living in what became India and the Hindus and what became Pakistan had to pack up sticks, pick up stakes and move. And in partition. And in partition and thousands of people, tens of thousands of people wound up dying in centarian violence anyway. I wouldn't say anyway, I would say as a result of the way the British had been and had

left it. Despite the best efforts of the guys who tried to keep everything under control at the last minute is what I meant. So that was 47. Now a rare exception to this, we're going to let the Empire go, was the Mele emergency in 1948. Okay. In Melea, there was an insurrection and the British clamped down on it very, very hard. It was by melee Chinese, so ethnic Chinese living in what is now part of Malaysia. And they were communists. It was a communist uprising in Malaya, and that was the one example where this decolonization movement was not applied by the labor government.

They said, well, no, okay, these guys are communists. We can't let go of this colony when there is this chance that it's going to go red. Now, that sounds very, and what year was that? 48. Now that sounds very and what year was that 48 now that's very echoally of ultimately the Truman doctrine which is yes, we can't Let Greece and let Turkey go communist even though they're not part of our geo-strategic Sphere they are part of our ideological Yeah, so they're there and there are and it's true Truman Truman doctrine turns into Kennedy doctrine turns into Korea turns into Vietnam. I mean, yeah, it's the same

It's it's the Domino's right theory and we don't we can't we can't let me Malaya go Comments the labor government is the labor government right labor, you know the left yeah the left doing this and so Labor, you know, the left, yeah, the left doing this. And so this process continued of decolonization. Now in 56, you can serve as their back in power. And the Suez crisis occurred. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, so NASA, nationalized the Suez Canal.

This is in Egypt. This is in Egypt. This is in Egypt. Yes. Now Egypt is its own country by this point. Yes, Egypt has a lot broken away. Yeah, a lot of British colonies in Africa are now African countries. Independent.

Yes. And a lot of French colonies are starting to turn into African countries as well. So yeah, you absolutely see a nationalization of resources that used to be used by the British Empire. Yeah, and now Nasser is one of these fascinating characters out of 20th century history who we don't really know whether he was serious about,

I'm gonna go with the Soviets or not, but he made a lot of noise about making friends with the USSR, you know, in that way that, you know, students who want to try to get attention will, you know, threaten to do stuff, you know, and you wind up, you know, engaging with him one way or another. Right. You know, he made a lot of noise where it sounded like he might go over to the dark side. In quotes, you know, going over the red side. And so him nationalizing the canal was this, you know, hyper fear of communist, you know, panic kind of moment.

Anytime somebody nationalizes something, the people are afraid that they're going communist, which is funny because Britain had just naturalized a Fist of their economy. Yeah, but but in this case it was the Suez Canal, which is vital to even to this day. It's vital for trade You know all over the world well in 53 Iran had tried to nationalize their oil fields So you have and and the the British were were heavily entrenched in the Arab and Persian worlds. Oh, yeah. And so, I mean, I believe on my access and allies map, it was called Anglo-Egyptian Sudan.

Yes. So you have a tremendous fear of all of these folks that the British had previously colonized, nationalizing everything, and essentially crippling the structures of empire, even if empire was on its way out. Oh yeah. And yeah, so while all of that is going on, while this double whammy of decay is happening, the Suez crisis happens and the British Decide that they're going to invade and they create this whole, I mean, it was an honest a guy to conspiracy theory and

They failed the long and the short of it is they they tried to get the Israelis involved. They just bunch of people It was a complicated scheme It was a complicated scheme. Militarially, militarily, they totally succeeded. The SAS showed up, kicked ass. They took forceful military control of the Suez Canal. But they couldn't hold on to it because Truman was pissed, pissed. Why? Because the British had not consulted with the United States when they were doing all of this planning.

Now, isn't this the one time the US and the US are ended up on the same side of an issue in the security conference? Yes. Yeah. And in the United Nations Security Council, basically everybody said, the fuck, okay? And they faced so much political blowback from everybody else in the world. And remember, this time they owed us hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars in loans.

And they were not strong enough militarily to stand without NATO against whatever it means. Whatever it means. What they deemed as red menace. And, you know, the President of the United States basically got on the phone and read the Riot Act to the Prime Minister of the UK and they pulled everything out. Wow.

And they abandoned, they had won. Like militarily, the British army and SAS had taken control of the canal, they owned it, and then they had to back out with their tail between their legs politically. Now after this Truman ordered a military parade in America, right? Because that's how we celebrate our greatness.

That? No. No. He said the opposite. He said we don't do that because that would make us celebrate our greatness. No. No. He said the opposite. He said, we don't do that because that would make us look weak. Oh, weird. That would make us look weak. Wow.

Yeah. Was it the cost that made him not want to do that or was it just a night- No, no. It was just simply an ideological thing that we're Americans and we don't do that stuff. Because that's what totalitarian governments like the USSR do. Okay, wait, wait, wait, so like, like, let's say that like Truman was, or let's go back a little bit to Teddy Roosevelt, because he was boystrish and he would have loved him. Oh, he did. Yeah, it paraded. And but no, not that. Okay, we don't we don't do that. Like what about like

pushing other people out of the way so you can go further up the line like he would have done no No, he was at the back of the line with his cowboy. Yeah weird. Yeah, something must have changed funny So yeah something so It was nice when we had you know decorum decorum It was part of our political system. So anyway, sorry, rapsodizing about the past. So what wound up happening was this wound up, the Suez, the failure of the seizure of the Suez Canal, was a really major blow to British confidence.

Thatcher herself, when she came, when she got into power, when she was in politics. Her self said that Suez Delta Major blow to British confidence, that prior to Suez, they had thought they could do anything. After Suez, they thought they couldn't do anything. Oh wow. That it was this neurotic kind of well, you know, okay, you know, we got to play second fiddled everybody, you know.

And it was this like psychologically defining moment for a generation where we're just not the people who do that stuff anymore. That's just not, we don't have the military strength, we don't have the political, so what year was this? 56. So, like, let's say, if we fast forward by a generation, and everybody ages about 20, 23 years,

that if you were a politician looking to, I don't know, capitalize on that neurosis, that shame you would like want to maybe make Britain great again and and you could run Like and say we used to do these really strong things. Yeah, and maybe Maybe we should do those again and by this point people like might be Wanting to get my might might want to might want to kind of do something about that. Yeah That is part of what I'm going to get to, but that's maybe overstating that part of things a little bit. There's some more.

I'm an American not a bit. Well, there's some more immediate kind of issues that come up there. But the point I'm trying to make here talking about all this is that politically and culturally, the British Empire became part of history for the generation born after the war. It was not, it was the Empire was not, it was not a lived experience for them. And a memory, maybe cherished, maybe not for the generation's prior. Okay, so we have the welfare state has become the norm. Most Britons are focused more on domestic concerns than on British power and prestige abroad. Okay. In media, in Great Britain, especially in science fiction, this is the

era of Doctor Who. This is when Who starts. And this is the story of a mostly benevolent time traveling, adventuring alien. This is the era of the quarter mass series of radio radio. Wait, Doctor Who starts in the 50s. Doctor Who starts in the 60s. Okay. Doctor Who is this is a decade after that. But in the 60s, in this inner war consensus period, we have Doctor Who, we have the quarter mass series of radio dramas and movies.

If you're not familiar with them, look them up, they're a hoot. They're so much an artifact of that time. Okay. But also the triphids, day of the triphids, is from this kind of era. God, that's okay. Can you characterize, like, Doctor Who,

I've never watched an episode. Oh my god. I know. Okay. So can you just characterize what it's like? Cause I want to draw a comparison between that and something going on in America around the same time. Doctor Who is essentially optimistic.

And it is about a time traveling human looking alien who travels through time and behaves as a trickster god with good intentions depending on on what era of doctor who you talk about you know it gets darker in the room or it gets lighter and fluffier early doctor who was very explicitly still is defined as a a youth of a kids essentially a kids tv show but a lot of adults watch it um... and and it's the kind of thing that it gets scary and you run behind the couch to hide but you're peeking up over the top of the couch that's the way it gets.

But it winds up ending well in the end. The bad guy is always defeated. Virtue wins out in the end. Different doctors have to sometimes do things that are maybe more alidubious, but that comes in that doesn't come in until decades later Early, yeah early on I'm talking about the early on. Yeah early on. It's it's it's very much Science fantasy morality play You know, but we're morality. It's educational. Yeah, we're morality ones out educational Because saying about we're traveling in history and let's learn about the Romans. Let's learn about you know this

Now let me just close you off for a second. In America From 1959 and 1964 There's a TV series called the Twilight Zone Yes, and I loves me the Twilight Zone washed every single episode. I have it On DVD because I don't trust streaming media to keep it for me. Yeah, I have it all yeah, and it it was a It was a mirror to our paranoia. It was a mirror to what is wrong with us There was no optimism to it at all in fact many episodes leave you going

Oh, man like like just the the monsters over Maple Street, I think it was called where. The monsters on Maple Street. Is that the one where they... Yeah, it's in one of the textbooks for English and the state of California. Oh fantastic. Is that script? Oh wow. And it's the one where they're trying to break into the one guy's, what do you call it,

bomb shelter, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Where the bomb didn't have to drop for them to destroy themselves. For everybody to panic and destroy each other, yeah. And so I would just point out that on one side of the pond, you have TV that is forcing us to look at ourselves very uncomfortably and we are building all kinds of like bomb shelters and stuff.

And on the other side, you have, and this is sci-fi. Yeah. And on the other side, you have positivity. Yeah. You have science and rationality are going to win us out of these situations. And there is this upward cast to these things. The quarter math stories are shelloc science.

I mean, like drive-in shelloc monster movie science fiction. But what happens in them is Dr. Quatermass comes up with the scientific solution to save the day. See, we don't get that. We don't get that until Star Trek really in 1967. Yeah. Like then you actually have a utopian writer. Yeah. And so like that. So we're hardcore utopian. Yeah.

But we're like behind the times as far as that goes. Well, because we were, we were hardcore. You were, yeah, we were the superpower facing off against the Soviets. The Brits were supporting us. I mean, they was like what? But ultimately stuck in the middle. There's a level of, yeah, we can we can control that what are we gonna do right so

Then the late 70s happened and Let's segue for a second to talking about gaming history for moment. Okay, also in the late 70s You and I were born. Well, I was mid-70s. Literally mid-75s. Oh, I'm 77, so technically. So, I'm late. I'm technically late. So, for a moment, however, let's talk about gaming history,

because we're nerds. Yes. In 1975, an auspicious year for Geekdom, Games Workshop was founded. And Games Workshop is the company responsible for Warhammer 40,000, Warhammer Fantasy Battle and all of the myriad of intellectual properties that have spawned off of them since then. And they were founded in 75. They started out as literally a workshop where they made game boards for chess, backgammon, and so forth.

And then, as soon as they could, they bought the United Kingdom distribution rights. They became the main importer for dungeons and dragons in the United Kingdom. And they expanded very quickly into then publishing their own D&D modules and their own other kind of game books Sure You may or may not have heard of the fighting fantasy series of books from the late 70s early 80s They're like choose your own adventure Okay, all it is is like a fight between one character and another character Is this like my Ace of Ace's book

where you're like choosing maneuvers? Very much, yeah. Actually, it's essentially the same thing. And if the author of that is a guy named Steve Jackson, not the same Steve Jackson, he brings the game company in Texas. Right. Same name, both game guys,

but there's one in Britain and one here. But that's like a sibling to that series. So they start publishing this stuff. In February of 75 they began printing a newsletter that first was titled Owlin Weasel because they're British. I don't you know Pragerok. I don't know. I don't get it. And then in 1977 that became White Dwarf Magazine, which is now the Flagship Hobby Magazine of Games Workshop. They founded Citadel Miniatures in 1979. That I know.

Yep, and they produced, originally, they did this to produce Miniatures 4D and D. So your pewter Miniatures, your elves near dwarves near 28mm. Yeah, 28mm artistic scales and large features to make things easier to see on the table. And sculptors being creative types, they were sculpting wizards and elves and goblins and orcs and all that stuff. And they played around and they did a couple of one- of sci-fi little miniatures, space elves, and space works, and you know, and it was all kind of done tongue-in-cheek, you know, kind of as a joke, you know. Now real quick, let me ask you, are these the same people who are developing miniatures

for like, like if my, when I met my dad, because I'm adopted. Yeah, at least by my dad. When I met him, he was huge into miniatures games, okay? And also he had a computer the only person I knew had a computer at the time and he played a text-based game, you know So it wasn't that it was knockoff because we always did knockoffs. Okay, you know everybody had Nintendo We have the Sega the sad Sega, you know I know we have the Sega, the sad Sega, you know, the Sega, you know. Oh, you know, but he had these miniatures

and there's a wonderful picture of the two of us. I'm five and I'm laying on my belly, legs up in the air like a five year old does and helping him build the buildings for Waterloo. And, yes, so like those that were on a flank of some sort and oh yeah, there was grass and then oh, yeah, oh wow Yeah, and there was hard work. Oh, he was huge into that. Yeah, um, so that was my introduction nice. Yeah, yeah So now citadel did not do historical stuff who did that Ralph Carthus? Okay, which is

Mostly defunct now, but they still have operations in Europe and you can get reprints of their stuff from ironwind metals By the way, if you're listening, I'd totally show your stuff forever. I would do it. Apparently it's tied to my childhood So yeah, please so for all your ironwind metals needs there you go. So So they they founded Citadel in 79 and they started making miniatures for D&D and for this other stuff. And now we're going to circle back around to that here in a little bit. But now I originally thought that I was going to ask you what you remember about the late 70s but I remember

that you're you know two and a half years younger than I am and the answer would be some variation on nothing. Yeah So let me tell you as somebody slightly older. I don't remember a goddamn thing either I was only four in 1979 and my clearest memories of the 70s involved my toys The Christmas when I got a rocking horse and one of my early birthday cakes. Sure. I have conocchio. I have photos. Yeah, I mean, there are no calories. Yeah, there's no clear actual memory in your head.

So thankfully, we're historians and we can look things up. And the overview of the late 70s, it sucked. Yeah. It was awful time. It was a dismal time in world history. After the Iranian Revolution, there was an oil crisis that was caused not so much by an actual shortage, but just by worldwide panic. Well, there was also an oil shortage in 1973, which I'm going to talk about in a second,

because that earlier oil crisis in 1973 had started a spiral of stagflation, which is a whole new economic term. Yes. Nobody, it had never happened on any kind of a large enough scale to be defined before, but worldwide, prices were going up, and unemployment was also going up. And historically, economists were all looking at it and like, oh, I thought that out.

I thought, what? Yeah. No, oh, I don't know what? Yeah. No, wait, are you high? Am I? Hi, like wait, because that was not a set of circumstances that it had been seen before. Yeah. And, well, it turns out that Kinsey and Economics works

really, really well, except for you get to a point where everybody's bought all the shit they need. Yeah. And then Keynesian economics stops being as effective. Yeah. Keynesian economics is like is is a lot like rehab and maybe CPR. Yeah. And you don't do those walking around.

Yeah. Once you're up and actually stable, you don't actually want to continue doing compressions on somebody's chest. Right, now you can certainly dial it back a little, you know, Kenzie and economics isn't just chest compressions. Oh yeah, but you do want to dial it back a little and get into some other stuff. The other thing, you need to find other tools. Yeah, is kind of what we're saying.

Well, and also the derivations that America and Britain were using on Kenzie and economics was based on The world is bleeding to death America is gonna save it with money and by the 1970s. I mean we're talking three decades later A generation and a half has passed and Japan is on its feet economically and it is eating the United States is lunch. Yes, which I'm going to talk about, what we talk about, battle tech, because that's relevant there.

Okay. Hi there, Karita Combine, how you doing. But I mean, you have a lot of countries that are now no longer so dependent on either superpower. And both superpowers, there's a very human tendency to get to the point where you're saying this is how it is this is how it will always be. Yeah.

I remember very clearly Billy idle saying rock and roll forever. He was wrong within five years. Yeah. You know, and so economic policies. Same kind of thing. Well, and eventually you figure out that you know, just because you have a hammer doesn't mean every problem is in fact a nail. Yes, indeed.

And that's what wound up happening. And so in the UK, again, smaller economy, canary and a coal mine kind of effect, the problem was especially serious. Unemployment was very high at the same time that inflation approached 24%. That's huge. That's massive. That's terrifying. Yeah. And so the labor party at that point was then in power and they made a deal with unions to cap negotiated pay raises at 5% or below in 1975. And the idea was if we can keep wages from going up too fast, we can try to prevent inflation from continuing to go up by capping wages because that's something

that we can make a deal with labor and kind of get this done. Now in America, at least in California, it was property taxes. Yes. That was the biggest. So the agreement stated that free collective bargaining would come back and Yes, that was that was the biggest yes, so interesting. So they're happening. Yeah, so The agreement stated that free collective bargaining would come back in 1978. Okay, so these three are literally just freezing They're just they're saying we're just we're just trying to freeze wages not not even totally freeze wages We just want to keep the raises small okay So inflation did decrease they got inflation mostly under control came down to I want to say it was about five or seven or eight percent.

And about the same time, but about the same time that the income agreement was set and it spiked again. And. Wait, wait, wait. So at 78. At 75. Uh-huh. They instituted a five percent wage cap and inflation got back under control.

Okay. And then 76, 77 past inflation is still higher than anybody would like, but it was much more under control. And then in 78, it spiked again. In 77, 78, inflation spiked again right before this agreement was supposed to expire. Oh, wow. Okay. And the Prime Minister, Callahan, who by the way had made his reputation being, you know, Union's guy, he was referred to as the keeper of the cloth cap because he was, you know, the friend of the Union working man. He called for an extension of the cloth cap because he was, you know, the friend of the Union working man. He called for an extension of the agreement. He said, look, we can't go back to unrestricted bargaining.

And unions unanimously threw him a finger. Now in Britain, that's two fingers. Yes, yes, yes, yes, right. They unanimously threw him two fingers. And the winner of 1978 and 79 was marked by massive stripes across the British economy. Now, that's interesting because in America, we see a parallel thing happening and these two societies are intrinsically linked. In America, you see something very similar and you start to see a lot of labor unrest. Yeah. And a lot of it is because this labor is in a lot of sectors that is now open to foreign trade.

Competition. Yeah, and competition. But others are in things that probably should have been public sectors that aren't. Yeah. I'm thinking of the the air traffic controllers union and stuff like that. Yeah. the Air Traffic Controller's Union and stuff like that. Yeah, so, and I think at this point, this is a good place for us to... Wait, but who gets elected? No, that's not it.

Yeah, good one, good one, well played. I think we can pick up here because this is a good place we've gotten, this is the prelude out of the way, and we can get into talking about the actual rise of thatcher, what happened from here and then get into 40k, which I'm championing at the bit to do. So part two. Part two. Coming up. Come and up.

Either in a week or in three days depends on what we're doing. It depends on what we're doing. Something weirdness. Excellent. Alright, well thank you. Bitch and Camaro. Alright, so we're halfway through talking about Warhammer 40,000 in Thatcherism. What struck you?

What is your big takeaway from this? Well, you know, and I tried to highlight this as a point was that if you look at the post-war consensus, it's not just, you know, we got to rebuild, but that the welfare state absolutely needs to be baked into this if we're going to a stop communism, which is it was a huge goal of the British and they were just super scared of it, but also be addressed the situation that brought about fascism and I just get a kick out of the fact that every time Fascism is there There's a whole bunch of people ringing their hands about communism instead

It's like those are opposites. Yeah, they do not come and meet. It's not a horseshoe at all and yet People react to them as though they're equally as bad and it's like no, it's so I that that was the thing I Really liked what you had to say about Dr. Who I found that as though they're equally as bad. And it's like, no, that's, so that was the thing. I really liked what you had to say about Dr. Hulu. I found that fascinating beyond its representation in the episode. So I really liked that. Yeah.

So, hey, how did your sortie thing go? Did that happen? No, it happened to happen to you at that. That's 25th. Oh, that's right. So 25th. And plans have actually come up. I'm not going to be able to have that. That's 25th. Oh, that's right. It's 25th. And plans have actually come up. I'm not gonna be able to make it.

But anybody who is gonna be here in Sacramento, in town, I do recommend it. It's a very minor street fight being thrown by the Sacramento Fry Fetchter Guild. A whole bunch of guys with, you know, blunted long swords. And we're inviting people from all over the state to come and, you know,

good and naturally fight like friends. friends do yeah it's gonna be at the Sacramento Tour in Varine which is the German Cultural Association historical building in its own right and interesting interesting history there. So yeah, I highly recommend it if you have the time and the opportunity to go by, it's gonna be a fun time for everybody. Cool. What do you got going on? Well, now this is August that you were talking about. August 25th. Okay, so I'm going to tell you some dates I've got coming out. Good June time.

In September, on September 12th, I will be doing comedy in Walnut Creek. Okay. So I'm coming down there to my fellow East Bay friends. I'm hoping y'all can come to that. I'm assuming that this will drop after my show on September 7th here in Sacramento, as well as after my show in Benesha on the 24th. In October, what I really am excited about though

is that the capital punishment is coming back. Nice. We're having our return, bigger, bolder, better. There's gonna be some new and improved things to it. I like it. Yeah, all three of us have traveled across the pond. Nice. And so hopefully we'll have some more fun puns.

So that'll be a lot of fun. Are there any books that you want people to know about? Right now, I mean, I've recommended it previously and kind of because of the compressed timeline that we're recording these on, I haven't really gotten out of it. But honoring the dust, I'm going to keep on it. I'm going to keep plugging, because it really is a fascinating read.

And I don't remember who it was who said that history doesn't really repeat itself, but it definitely rhymes. Yeah. That was where my co-workers, he said that. Nice, okay, yeah, I don't think so. But I say he don't know that. He's all right, okay, all right, cool, yeah, no. But the book really does make that point.

That's fantastic. Very crystal and in clarity. Nice, so how about you, what you got to recommend for? Couple books. One, if you like sports history, there's a wonderful book by a guy named Josh Gross, who used to be, I believe, an MMA reporter.

Okay. And he wrote a book called, Oli versus Inoki. It's, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah. So Ali at some point fought Pasta? No, not Noki. Oh, OK.

Inoki. Oh, OK. Antonio Inoki, a pro wrestler from Japan, huge in Japan. And Muhammad Ali wanted to fight a wrestler. And it was the first, well, technically not the first, but the first majorly publicized mixed martial arts event. Because in Okie, in addition to being a pro wrestler,

if you're a Japanese pro wrestler, you also know how to shoot fight, which you're... Okay. Yeah. And... So just explain that term for me. Oh, shoot fight is essentially essentially you are fighting for real So all this submission fighting that you see wow. Yeah, so yeah, no the Japanese don't do anything halfway

No actually one of the most remarkable things about Japanese culture throughout history is the Banzai instinct It's really a thing the fun thing about actually Japanese wrestling somebody once Compared it because American pro wrestling I'm a huge pro wrestling fan You'll see in an upcoming episode but Japanese pro wrestling is a real fight that they pass off as fake and American wrestling is a fake fight that they pass off as real now That was said by Jim Cornett who is a Kentucky Valley

Wrestling promoter, okay, and he's got 1,000 wonderful fun things to say. And he's not too wrong. Like they basically... There's Barb Wire in like, but that's the deathmatch. That's the best thing. But that's still her. But that's my exposure to anything I've seen

about Japanese pro wrestling. So Japanese pro wrestling. Because that's Blomker's enough that like we hear about it over here when it happens. Sure. Well, Japanese pro wrestling is essentially It's like 90% real but the outcome is still fixed So what you'll do is you'll wrestle a guy and then you'll

Get out of the hole. Okay, so Ali versus a no key it they couldn't even agree on the rules They finally did agree on the rules. They were no rules to absolutely nerf the heck out of a no key, because at least I'll quote a fallen. And it was 15 rounds of the most boring-ass fight you could ever possibly imagine. It was, but the book highlights how boring it is. Yeah, but it's so fascinating. But it's written in a way that makes it fascinating.

So that's one I would recognize. If you're not down for sports history, I'm totally going to recommend a book called The Sex Side of Life by Constance M. Chen. And I absolutely, oh yeah. No, I absolutely have a brain crush on Maryward Denet. There are two women that were kind of leading pioneers for the birth control movement in America. Margaret Sanger was one, she got all the press.

Maryward Dennis was actually the one who did all the research. Margaret Sanger was a strong believer in early adopter, but she didn't have the intellectual chops that Maryward Dennis had. Maryward Dennis had just a fascinating life. So it's I really like books, you know, because I'm a women's historian. I really like books about the women that you don't hear about. So like for everybody who's heard about Susan Mianthony, I'm a big fan of Matilda Jocelyn Gage, which I'm name dropping names that no one's ever heard of. I'm looking at you like, okay, totally nodding along. So I want to hear about this, but I know nothing.

But I'll recommend her biography some other time. But the sex side of life is about Maryweir Denet. It's called Maryweir Denet. It's pioneering that all for the birth control and sex education. And it is such a good read. So if you are interested in either of those things, I recommend those books.

All right. So anyway, so next week we're going to pick up where we left off talking about Warhammer 40k. Yes, well, and we're gonna have to talk about actual thatsurism. Yes. That's gonna be pretty brief. Cool. Okay.

Cool. Cool. Huh? So, alright, well we'll see you all later.