A Geek History of Time - Episode 156 - Henry Ford, Nazis, and Square Dancing Part I

Episode Date: April 30, 2022

So thank you all for coming to Cocktalk. He has trouble counting change, which is what the hands think. Wait, wait, stop. Yes. But I don't think that Dana Carvey's movie, um, coming out at that same time, was really that big a problem for our country. I still don't know why you're making such a big deal about September 11th, 2001. Fucking hate you. Well, you know, they don't necessarily need to be anathema, but they are definitely on different

aspects. Oh boy, I have a genetic predisposition against redheads, so. Because? Yeah, because you are one. Right. Yeah, combustion, yeah, we've heard it before. The only time I change a setting is when I take the hair trimmer down to the nether reaches, like that's the only time.

Other than that, it's all just a two I'm joking I use feet after the four gospels what's the next book of the Bible? okay and after that it's Romans Yeah, okay, and if you look at the 15th chapter of Romans, okay, you will find that it actually mentions the ability to arm yourself That's why worth it. This is a geek Geekmas for you. It's time. Where we connect, you know, we give the real world. My name is Ed Layla. I'm a world history teacher with a side order of English here in Northern California. And it's interesting that just this afternoon, my personal life and my professional life

kind of intersected. My wife and I got to have a conversation with my son about the consequences of not listening to teachers. And I was not the one who brought it up, but in the process of explaining to my son about why it's important to listen to his teacher, just for reference, my son is four and we're talking about a daycare teacher. But in a context of explaining to him why it's important to listen to our teachers, my wife decided to mention to him that daddy had to send one of his big kids out of class today because he was not listening and I got to try to simplify that whole interaction in two terms that my four year old son would understand.

The long and the short of it is the kid is a consistent pain in my neck anyway, is a consistent pain in my neck anyway, but today he decided that he asked you to go to his resource room to work on some stuff, and I said, yeah, sure, go ahead, fine. He went to his resource room. The teacher in the resource room got on his case about misbehavior in that room. He said, fine, I'll go back to Mr. Blalox room, got up left that classroom

came back to my room and then told me that he was back in my room because well I got my work done at which point the other teacher walked into my classroom and started looking very intently at his back at which point I'm like oh no you're fine son. Oh you I could tell already this is going to go badly for you at which point I'm like, oh, no, you're fun, son. I know you. I could tell already this is going to go badly for you. At which point, I found out what the actual interaction had been in her room. And he got to take a trip to the office for leaving the other classroom without without

permission and defiant essentially defines of a lawful order and and and fucking lying to my god damn face. So like I'm sorry three strikes to fucking out get out like we're done. Have fun. Bye bye. So so I got to I got to try to find a way to simplify that to explain some of my 40-year-olds son. And, and you know, it's it's a wonderful exercise in in kind of examining, okay, I'm pretty sure I did the right thing there and like, yeah, okay, I did do the right thing, but how am I going to explain this to my kid? Like, yeah, so I don't know if you've ever had an analogous experience with your own kids or not, but that was, that was a new one for me.

So who are you and what have you got going on? Well, I'm Damien Harmony, I'm a Latin and drama teacher up here in Northern California. And I think that it's a good time to share that I had the opposite of the spectrum kind of story. My daughter informed me that they've had a sub that they complained to the teacher about and the teacher made sure that that sub got put on the no fly list.

And then they had another sub, and this other sub was also, according to my daughter, again, take it with the Salt Lake, but the entire, you know, she's not one to lie about those kinds of things. She'll lie about whether or not she brushed her hair. But, and she doesn't really do that very much, but she will fudge. But she said, yeah, this is another sub who is generally unpleasant. I said, okay, have y'all gone and talked to your principal about this?

And no, no, I said, go ahead and do that. And she's like, well, I said, was the sub saying or doing things that were mean? And she said, yeah, I said, did you stop them? And she looked at me. I said, look, you could, I said, did was the sub saying or doing things that were mean? And she said, yeah, I said, did you stop them? And she looked at me. I said, look, you could get in trouble in school and you will not get in trouble here. If you were standing up for the right thing or if you're standing up for other people who were getting picked upon.

Uh, and she looked at me. I said, now I also understand that that's an awful lot of pressure to put on a nine year old. And I also understand that that's an awful lot of pressure to put on a nine-year-old and I also understand that that's an awful lot of courage that takes to buck authority. But let me explain to you how to do it. I took her through polite and civil, vibrant disobedience. I will not be doing that because that is wrong. I'm sorry, but apologize and thank them. And, you know, and then take the matter of the social forms carefully. Right. And then I told her I was like in union

talk, we call this do it and then grieve it. And so I've I'm in hallelujah. Yep. I've been teaching her how to do that. But then also I will absolutely back your play. And if you go talk to your principal, I will make sure to follow up with your principal because she knows I will. And kind of broke the paradigm for her. Like you don't just have to suffer through shitty adults. You can actually do something about shitty adults because they shouldn't be shitty adults. And I said, you know, I'm going to trust your judgment when it comes that, that you're not being capricious and it's not just a, well, they're a little stricter

than I'm used to or whatever. Like, if you don't like them or whatever. Right. If, you know, they're guilty of the sin of not being the teacher that you love, you know. I said, if it's a legitimate complaint, I'll back you all the way. And you do the right thing and I've got your back.

So the opposite of listen to your teacher. Well, yeah. Yeah, because we're dealing with different age groups, different circumstances. But yeah, of course, yeah, just kind of a fun little, opposite symmetry. Yeah. Yeah. So, very cool. I got a question for you. Okay. Do you use Amazon? I really wish for the sake of my sense of moral righteousness that I could get away with saying no. Yeah. No, I still do too. But I also still use cash that says in God we trust. And I'm an atheist. So But I also still use cash that says in God we trust and I'm an atheist so You know, yeah, yeah, yeah

One of them is the media mix of exchange and one of them is a merchant that you do business with so I mean Like I'm willing to give you more more leeway about the money and in God we trust then my use of Amazon Then I'm going to give myself for use of Amazon. I mean, I use it too. I mean, this is not a commercial for Amazon. Yeah, this whole episode will be decidedly not a commercial for Amazon. Okay. Well, there we go. So, uh, yeah, we use them partly because of their ubiquity, right? And their ability to to make things very easy to access. Yeah, it's it's the easy button of day-to-day retail stuff. Right, right, you know, and especially during a pandemic. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, now the way they treat their workers is God fucking awful. This shit, yeah. But they still provide a product that like clearly consumers want. Yeah. Yeah, well, what if I told you that this was not the first time that happened?

Are we going to talk about railroad bearings? No, no. In the mid 1400s, the English countryside was rife with country festivals and public gatherings breaking out in dance. Not to the level of a rec center under the threat of wicked developers, lest they raise enough money to save the buildings by the weekend in the 1980s movies, but still dance was a pretty typical way for English peasants to gather and enjoy each other's company. However, because it's England,

that's largely ignored and unstudied. I love to blame your face. I mean, I thought I had, I thought I had some clever there, but you just completely pulled the rug out from under me here. Okay. Now, a lot of this dancing has been lost to traditional historiography due to the fact

that there's a lack of written record of such gatherings and practices because they're English peasants in the 1400s. I have, however, managed to find and read through some of the diagrams and the manuals on this dancing. And they're about as interesting as they could sound to a non-musician. However, we're gonna talk about Morris dancers. Yes, we are.

Oh, hell yes. Okay, I am here as an annual, I mean, up until this past year, because of, you know, politics, COVID, as a nearly annual participant in the Dickens fair, I am here for this Morris dance. Right. Like dude, all right. Yeah. So the worship, the worshipful company of Goldsmiths, also known as the Wardens and commonality of the mystery of Goldsmiths of the city of London. Was recorded as paying seven shillings to a troop of Morris dancers. Nice. At that time, they were called Morris dancers because spelling was not yet standardized. That's the word I was looking for. By moving

my hand up and down, you were able to understand that I meant standardized. How to find. Yeah. So this was 1448. This was the first mention of Morris dancers in the English written history. Morris dancing comes from a Flemish term. Of course it does. It's Maurice dance, dance with an S, which translates to Maurice dance. In 1494 Henry this seventh was entertained by a similar type of dance on Christmas. No shit. Yeah. Really. Yeah. Now you think about mores though, you think southern Spain, Northern Africa, you think colorful, you think the traditions of flamenco come from these places. So it would make sense if you trace the evolution and see it as an evolutionary chain. Exactly.

Okay. That makes sense. Now from the villages to the big city of London, more stancing was brought into the court mask by Henry VIII, and from there it worked its way back out into the professional entertainment circuits, and it disseminated in a more codified way to the masses. So that's how we get there. Now, as such, country folk dancing in England took on a decidedly Spanish, Mourish, and Italian flair, as Mouris worked its way back through the masses, colliding and abrating, and absorbing and mutating the country folk dances in various regions.

I just figured out where we're going to end up and I'm going to say it right now, but wow, you went a long way back. Okay. Holy cow. All right. Anyway. By the mid 1600s. See, people when they click on this, they'll see the title. So they'll be like poor Ed

And then and then however, I'll get credits for for the leap in I made here that I was able to go from 1440s to where we're going to end up. Oh, yes. Most definitely. So by the mid 1600s, more stancing seemed to be the standard for peasant workers dances at public gatherings. So much so that when Oliver Cromwell was in charge, he suppressed the white sun Ails Festival or Whitson Whitson Festival, and by extension, dancing because it's all of her Kromwell. And and all her Kromwell was the biggest dick in English history. And I don't mean that he had the biggest dick. That's why they called them the round heads, right?

Yes. Yes. Well done. Well done. I'm not even mad about that one. No. He was the guy who came in for the restoration had the biggest dick. Yeah, this is true. He did everywhere. So speaking of Charles the second, when he came back into power, and you know, the funny thing is when Charles the second came back, everybody was like, oh, yeah, no, big dick energy. We're okay with it. Even that's waved it everywhere. Yeah.

It's like because all of our grumbwell had been such a massive dingus. I mean, think, yeah, I can, like because we just dealt with a huge dick, please show us your huge dick. Yeah, there you go. I mean, it's called priming. Kind of. Yeah. I do find it interesting that England went from having kings to having no kings to saying, fuck it.

I know we killed the last one, but we want to go back to kings. Well, okay. And again, you really have to look at the example of just exactly what a massive tool. Yes. Specifically Oliver Grumwell. Like this is one of those cases where I really have to- Had it been other people. Had it, yeah, like, like-

I don't go with great man very often. Popular's history is awesome and like entirely valid. Every so often you come to a bottleneck point in history where you like, had it been anybody fucking else? Yes. I had it. Had it been. Had it been some other round head officer had it been somebody who was not, didn't have

such a massive may pull up his ass. Right. As all of her fucking Gromwell. Yeah, then maybe the people of England might not have been so angry at him that they would have been like, no, no, no, bring back the fucking monarchy. We want the monarchy back.

This is bullshit. Like, again, we beheaded the last guy. Yeah, we made the other guy, 9 inches shorter. But we actually want to bring back his, was it, no, Charles the first guy, then Charles the second, his son, where he'll bring back his son. Or it wasn't his brother. No, no, it was James Charles James. So, yeah, so what happened was it was the stewards. Right. So James. And then he had his son Charles.

Yes. James then and then Charles. And Charles got nine inches shorter. And then Cromwell was in charge. And then it was the the next Charles was the Prince of Orange. He was not directly descended from the stewards. It was his wife who was the connection. Are you sure you're not mixing up with William and Mary? I am mixing up with William and Mary. Never mind. Yeah, this is Charles the second.

So Charles the son, the son, the son. Yes, the Charles son. Yeah, because then then his this is Charles the second. So Charles the son, the son, the son, yes, the Charles son. Yeah, because then then his brother James the second ends up as well. Yes. So we have body prints Charlie, right. And and that whole debacle. Yeah, I say that speaking to the Scott. So Charles the second does come back in power. It's called the restoration. Yes. Iron man warrants around with like a feather in front of his penis. There's pineapples involved and corgis and it's just it's wonderful. You haven't seen the movie restoration. With Robert Downey Jr.

Wanting to make it with a quill in front of his dick. I have not. You're missing out. Apparently, I, you know, on the one hand, I feel like I am on the other hand. I feel like you've said everything I need to know about it, and I don't, I don't want to find out anything for. It did give me a good idea for how to use a forepost bed sexually. Okay. Yeah. So that rekindled my interest, but anyway, carry on. There you go. So Charles, the second comes back into power to the restoration. He restores spring festivals, dancing, and people get to get together and dance again.

Now, more is dancing is typically a rhythmic stepping dance wherein the dancers are typically wearing bells or bell pads on their shins and wielding any number of implements depending on where they're from, sword sticks, hankies to aid them in the dancing. Or all of the above. Right. Now, and that is, of course, a more modern version, which would say, oh, we're going to combine. It's the sizes multiple. And I got no problem with that. I think that's wonderful. Dance is a wonderful thing.

Keep it up. Yeah. Usually there's six to eight dancers in two lines, although there are plenty of other formations and styles. But the through line tends to be 68 dancers and an uncomfortable amount of blackface. Depending on the troop and words being performed, right? Yes. So it grew alongside and influenced English country dancing. In the 1700s, square dancing was finally documented in England, though as is typical, the documenting comes around long after the thing has already existed.

I found a diagram for square dancing from a book called the English Dancing Master, which had the monopoly on dancing manuals from the mid 1600s until the early 1700s. And while more dancing was typically just troops of men, English country dancing and square dancing involved men and women because you've got festivals for towns and villages and you've got everybody getting together in the public square. Well, okay. And because, and this was a point that was that was impressed upon me doing Shakespeare in college. Dancing was one of the very few contexts in which men and women could socially interact and have physical contact. Yes.

And it came up because I was in a production of much do about nothing in my sophomore year of college. And the ending of the play, anybody who's familiar with much ado, will remember that at the end of the play, Benedict says, you know, bring, bring music, let, let us all dance. Right. And, you know, the, the, the father of the brides, or the father, you know, the, yeah. Here is dad. Yeah, says, says, no, no dancing after. And then, and then Benedict says, no, no, dancing now. And what the director of the show who was a Shakespearean scholar from the Royal Theater, what he pointed out to us was,

dancing was recognized by everybody as being and now I'm losing the word, was recognized by everybody as being a, and now I'm losing the word, but an allegory. There we go, for intercourse. Like the audience of Shakespeare's play would have realized, no, no, we're gonna dance now because that's, that's what we wanna do, that's a good time. Yeah. You know, and you want to dance with somebody. You want to feel the heat with somebody. Remarkable

that a part of my brain had gone there. Yep. Wow. Yeah. And I'm not even mad. So brings brings home the sadness of dancing with myself. Oh, there we go. Nice. Nice. I don't reference there. So anyway, yeah. And and and so of course, when you're not performing, because because performative dance would have been something like, well, you know, if a woman's doing that, it's kind of scandalous, because you're forming when you're when you're participating. Celebratory. Yes, yes, yes, instead of yeah, being celebratory and sick, performative, then then yeah, you're going to have that that's going to be co-ed because that's one of the few things that was co-ed. Yeah, and keep in mind, these festivals are typically around

saints days, feast days,vest days, all the things that bring a community together. And this, yes, these outpouring of celebrations is a way of further tying social bonds together, keeping people bonded, keeping the English English in a lot of ways, so that when they do have to go and throw point sticks at the French, they're all down for it, because they're doing it not just for themselves, not just because they've been conscripted, but also, yes, you know, and it does add to the national character. This, Barbara Aaron Wright wrote a wonderful book called Dancing in the Street, which I'm going to recommend at the end of all this, but it's about these not spontaneous,

but she writes about spontaneous expressions of joy. But to get there, she talks about stuff like this. So, Square dancing tended to specifically involve couples too, which means people who are a court and are now being seen in public a court and so now you start to see more codified physical contact that is acceptable between two people whose parents are either in negotiation or if you're poor, who are kind of making these decisions on their own. So, okay, that brings up a question that I don't know if either one of us is prepared to really answer, but that immediately makes me wonder, what was the threshold line for? Because, I mean, we all know, and I've made the point I can't even tell you how many times

to my students and six and seventh grade history, that like, you know, historically speaking, marriage was a contract you entered into between families. Right. So, so then the question is when you when you when you say it that way to me, that, you know, if you're poor, that individuals are the ones making this decision because the family doesn't have enough money for anybody to give two shits. Right. Where do you think the dividing line was there? Much higher. What was the what was the much what was the, what was the, what was the, much higher than people, much higher would, than people would believe because if you had generational landed wealth, then you had to be much more careful about how you're going to invest that and grow it. And therefore, the decision was far less likely to be a romantic one and one led by the two romantic partners. The lower the wealth, the less stable as in real estate, the more liquid,

the more new. Frankly, the less, we've had this since the days of, I don't know, what's the guy? I was going to say the guy who got shot in the eye. But we've had this since Henry. Henry or Harold? Henry Henry is the one who got who got the Andrews that I make a big point to tell my kids what a tough son of a bitch he was even though I looked like a nerd right, you know, anyway. Yeah, so you know, we've had the land since then going back or you know, we were one of the original people that put the pen and King John's hand kind of thing. Yeah, when it's your middle class when it's your going back, or we were one of the original people that put the pen and King John's hand kind of thing. When it's your middle class, when it's your city leaders, the young have more of a say in guiding and initiating, and the parents have veto power.

Yes, but very often, you don't want to really pull that card unless you really have to. So it was- was powdered dry. Yeah, you know, um, and before a gunpowder was a common, you know, right? And the parlance, but yeah. But, you know, and, and, you know, you, uh, ultimately, you want these marriages to be stable. So so that you can have social security. So that means, oh, they're in love. Well, what in my choice,

but, you know, let's make sure that, you know, this is the family. It's less about, okay, we need to alliance with these people and war about is the family acceptable? Yes. Yeah. So which is a very different bar. Yes. You know, and again, that veto power is only, will this fuck us up? And if it won't fuck us up, and I find it. So there are other scholars who know far more about these things. Yeah. Yeah. But in the early 1800s, England, in England, English country dancing and French dancing combined to form the quadriple, quadrile, quad, quadrile, that, which was specifically a dance for four couples in a square. Sorry, just just one of one of the truisms, one of the rules of our boo-boo talked about, we got to codify rules of our podcast. One of the rules of our podcast is,

if it's a French word, Damien's just not gonna know how to pronounce it. Like as a rule. Like yeah, just like that. Okay, anyway, sorry. That's okay. This was not the first mention of square dancing, but this was the first formally codified dance that was set as such.

And when folks started coming over to the newly formed United States of America, they of course brought their cultures with them. This meant that the quadril, mostly was something that aristocratic American if-eat-snobs did, because consider the amount of wealth that it took to come over from Europe. And George Washington, for example, was evidently an incredible dancer in his youth to those who can understand qualitative analyses of such things. So there was a social space for dancing already amongst the rich because they

had the time and the money to come over here and then they had the time to dance and it wasn't just large gatherings of society. Well, okay, so, so, do you kind of piggyback on that About what is involved in setting up a Dance space you need to have you need to have a bunch of people with the time to show up and the motivation to show up Which I mean, you know a dance is a good time. Okay fine But there's also a level of even though it's a social gathering, there's a level of performativeness. And everybody has steps in memorized back up to. Yes. And you had to have the time to learn how to do it to be part of the group. Yep. You know, it was, it was a, it was a sign of your breeding and your upbringing

that you absolutely do it well. And so, and as you already mentioned, you had to have the space, which means, you know, you had to have a big enough house to have a room that you could dedicate to. Okay, we're gonna take all the furniture out of this room. We're gonna have people dancing in here. Right.

So it was very much a status thing. Mm-hmm. And, yeah, Right. You know, so it was, it was very much a status thing. And yeah, I, you know, you mentioned, you know, talking about qualitative analysis of, George Washington, George Washington dancing skill. I think it's enough to say that we have from multiple sources the agreed upon understanding that he had a reputation for being a very talented dancer as a young man. Yes. Absolutely. Now, apparently he had very lovely calves, which given the pants at the time and the way stockings worked, it's kind of hard to think of anybody not having lovely calves, but now, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know,

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know,

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know,

I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I lawyer in Boston, you're working. Yeah, okay, good point. Yeah, fine. Now, originally quadrials were used by the wealthy, especially after the American Revolution. They were part of American country life and courtly life, and so it's largely in the south that quadrials were in regular rotation. That doesn't mean they didn't exist in New York and in Massachusetts. There's plenty of urban areas there too.

But they were a big part of plantation culture is what you're kind of trying to get across. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Now again, though, I do want to emphasize as well that there were absolutely rural traditions in the North is not purely a southern thing. I mean, shit, there were slaves in the North

for the longest goddamn time. So, now, they were in the south, quadrials were in regular rotation. Now, they started off as memorized choreograph steps, as we had said. However, as many wealthy southerners had a long tradition of enslaving people, their enslaved persons would play the music and their enslaved persons would start to call out steps for people. And I love this little wrinkle because on some level, the wealthy whites in parties were stepping

to what the enslaved black folks were shouting to them. It was a socially acceptable inversion of the social order. It feels very Saturnalian. Very. It's very much like the Lord of Miss Rule. Yeah. You know, on a certain level. Yeah. It was it was it was it was kind of with a, with a, with a small S Saturn alien. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a really good way to put it. So, of course, there were always regional dances and therefore regional differences. In the Northeast, for instance, they lasted longer without having calls,

probably because you didn't have as many enslaved people up there. And the dancers themselves followed pre-memorized steps and the couples faced each other. And those couples initiated the steps. So just kind of egalitarian on some level. You know, we're switching off roles. roles. There's nobody calling it out. We're all agreeing upon this. It's very yanky. It feels very yanky. Oh, it's intently yanky. It's a very, very look. We have a set of rules. We hold and hold into the rules. We have all agreed to the rules, right? Through an exhaustive period of town meetings, right? Where everybody got the opportunity to stand up.

And Bob took four hours to tell us exactly why he thinks, sorry, I'm getting off on a tangent. Sounds like you're talking about Presbyterians. I might be. Yeah. I'm just, you know, I am going to say I've been in enough staff meetings as a teacher. Let's talk about this. Which ends with, but I didn't eat the fish.

Which also ends with a whole bunch of people muttering motherfucker, we want to go home. Right. No, Janet, you don't get to ask one more question. This could have been email. I love the U.S. straight to Janet, because that's where it was going to. Like, no, sit out. Like, no. Now this could be an email. Please don't break this up now. Now, this could be an email. Please, Dan, break this up now. In the South, it was a little mercier than this. It's less of a square, more dependent on the color. It's less synchronized, but it's also more on beat.

Again, I think when you have enslaved peoples who have a long tradition of dancing on the goddamn beat, it even works for white people. I think that's part of it. There's a parallel forming in my head here, and this is probably reaching, but I gotta get it out of my system. We're also looking at two different cultures that had a very different religious outlook. Yes. And Northern Christianity was very much, we were going to church to reinforce the social contract. Mm-hmm.

You know, we're all everybody who is. The goodness of God. The goodness, we're all everybody who is. The goodness of God. The goodness of God. And everybody who is in the church is a registered, paid your dues member of the church. And all of the decisions that can be made by the church are made by the membership of the church who show up to the meetings. Correct.

And it's all very, very codified. And you know, it's, you know, modern day Methodist, you know, mainline Methodist is like this is a whole thing. It's orderly. It's intensely ordered. It's like, it's like so lawful it hurts. You know what? I'm gonna back up from that actually.

It's not orderly, it's structured. Oh, there you go. Yeah. Better way of putting it. Yeah. It's just so organized, it's fucking hurts Oh, there you go. Yeah, better way of putting it. Yeah, it's it's just organized. It's fucking hurts. Yes. And then in the south, you have at least after the second year in awakening, you have religious traditions that are intensely cathartic. Yes. And intensely, intensely cathartic, and intensely immediate is the word that comes to mind. It is kind of ad hoc. You know, you have preachers who are traveling on a circuit. Yeah, well,

interesting you say that. You say church to church because the dancers, one couple goes around to all the others and initiates dance with them. Yeah. Yes. You caught me for the audience. Yeah. I mean, taught me in the middle of a, of a gulp of my beer. Yeah.

Which, and then I'm going to need for this episode. But yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, and the rest of the couples for this episode, but yeah. Oh yeah. Well, and the rest of the couples wait for them to show up. The parallel. Yes. You know, but there's a very,

there's a very different character involved in the underlying assumptions about the structure of what they're participating in. And yet it is orderly too. Now this is where I'd say it's orderly and not structured. Okay. Because everybody takes their turn going round with that one couple. It's led by a couple. It's called out by an enslaved person. There is an order to it. There are people with hierarchical roles. The hierarchy is the order is more important. Yes. Then the is more important than the compact. Yes, the compact. I'm saying that against,

without me interrupting, go. The hierarchy is more important than the compact. Yes. The travel angle are more important than other, than other couples. Yep. And the role of the caller is more important than the agreed upon steps.

Yes. I mean, we basically just cracked the Mason-Dixon line along the cross. Yet. Yeah. So now here's where it gets more American. The further west you went, the more diffusion of both happened

into a recognized third form that was definitely a fusion of both. Okay. Now, culturally, all of this holds with our understanding of the very sectional cultures, right? Does it also sound like any other physical interactive agreed upon cooperative movement that we've heard about? Well, I immediately went to thesis antithesis synthesis. Oh, okay, that works. But that's because I'm like, you know, on my second beer of the night at this point, rather than thinking of anything more concrete.

So lay it on me. Physical interaction between groups of people. Uh, somebody already kind of has a structure of how this interaction is supposed to go in mind. It is cooperative with the appearance of spontaneity. operative with the appearance of spontaneity. And the further west it goes, the less regional it feels. I'm going back to Rastling again. Yep.

Okay. Of course we are. Because it's a Damian episode. So of course we're going back to Rastling. But okay. But but now that now that I've finally made that connection, my head, yes, it totally makes sense because the regional styles of the north and the south and the exactly, but as you get west, collar, collar jacket and collar, yeah, collar and elbow

collar and elbow wrestling versus catches catch can versus everything else. Yep. All meld together in melting pot kind of way into the monster that we now recognize as, you know, spangly murder gymnastics. Right. Now again, you go back to the north and you have the compact good, always wins. This is how it goes in the south, you have the hierarchy. Good always fights the good fight. But ultimately, it's a blue thing. And then when you get west, it's a mishmash, but it's really good techniques. But the technique is amazing and the outcome is God knows what.

Which is exciting and interesting, right? You know, it's funny. It occurs to me that like the social myth of the South, as we've codified it, we're on the confines of this podcast. You know, you wonder why it is nobody has ever looked at that and gone, well, okay, no, this is shit because like,

why don't we build a myth where, you know, no, no, let's, let's make the good guy win. Like, why? Because Jesus is here yet. All right. Okay. That's, I mean, okay. Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Because baptism. okay. Yeah. Okay, because baptism, okay, we're done. Okay, fine. Cool. Anyway, this episode is not about square dancing. This episode is about Henry Ford. Okay, see, God damn it. Okay, look. I knew that it was about square dancing.

I also knew it was about Henry Ford. Yeah. But you've obviously had half of my cleverness by saying that. So like, well, what the hell, man, come on. Henry Ford was born in Michigan in 1863 was the next thing I was going to say. Okay. So the son of an Irish immigrant and who was actually from English stock as his father and a Belgian descended orphan, Michigan or mother. Okay. Yeah. So an Englishman who moved to Ireland, who then came to it. Married. Yeah. Married a Belgian, a woman of Belgian descent who was actually an orphan in Michigan. Who was born in Michigan? Okay. Yes.

Yes, that's how the edition multiplication, whatever that was, worked in my head. I just, yeah. Okay. Now, he didn't learn beyond eighth grade formally. Okay. And we showed a proclivity for mechanical devices early on becoming an amateur watch repairman at the age of 15. Okay.

There were paragraphs on this shit about just the watches. If you have ever wanted to know how much minutia goes into evil-ass bastards in their bootstrap stories, read books about Henry Ford. Oh my god. Oh well yeah okay. Alright see here's the thing. I can see how being a how working as a watchmaker watch. Repairman. Repair Yeah, he didn't make him okay, okay fix them I can totally see how that being what you did for eight hours 12 hours whatever of your work day mm-hmm could really have some profound impacts on your view of the universe.

It kind of fucked up Dr. Manhattan pretty hard. Yeah, to one example, but Tyler from heroes. Yes, that's actually the direction that I was going in, right there. Yeah. You know, because you are, you are always, elbow metaphorically, you know, elbows deep in a device that is incredibly precise. Yep. And literally engineered to, to in human tolerances.

And simultaneously, even though everything that you're working with is utterly honed to a diamond sharpness. You are also dealing with something where, okay, if I just take this part out and replace that part with another part exactly like it, I've solved the problem. Yes.

Everything has a concrete solution. There is always a direct line of cause and effect. Yep. That is absolutely precise. That is absolutely, I can, I can tell you exactly how this part points to this part points to this part points to this part. That leads to three different things of it. We'll make it work or not.

Oh, yes, excellent. Yes. So that's when he's 15. He's wearing watches at 15. Oh, he's fucked. Amateur-wise though. Right. He's not okay.

He hasn't opened a shop or anything like that, but he is basically, he's the kid in town that you take your watches to. Now three years prior to that, when he was 12, in 187575 he saw a nickels and shepherd road engine for the first time. Now he lived on a farm but he did not ever like farming and so Henry went to Detroit to that. So he's 19. He'd also learned bookkeeping while he was apprenticing, which will be very handy. At this

point, he started experimenting with building engines in the farm's workshop, and he was immediately discouraged from using steam or electricity due to the size needed for a boiler. He's like, that shit's too lethal and too dangerous. Or the size needed for batteries for the electrical. And he's like, that's just not practical. It would be way too goddamn heavy. At the time for what are called light vehicles. In other words, not huge machines that make the mill run like, you know, cars and shit. The earliest engine that I found mention of his building was an 1887. Okay. So 26, I think, or 25. Okay. So he built, he built his own, his first, his own engine at 26.

Just as an engine, not necessarily as a automobile, but an engine. Yeah, built an engine, which is the single most complicated part in an automobile. It has the most moving parts involved. It has the most things you've got to get right with a certain amount of tolerance all that. So like the first thing that comes to my mind hearing that is the level of casting or milling or machining that's involved in putting together because like an engine block. Yeah. Is is a solid piece of metal that you have to either cast or mill. Uh-huh. In order to get, you know, the cylinders put in the direction you need them and all the screw holes and everything for the head, everything else, you know, gaskets and everything else to be attached to. And we're talking about this being an 18 what now? Let's see 1887. Now he's a

practicing at a machine shop in Detroit. Okay. So he's gotten in with machinists, right? And he probably gets some spare time, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Also an engine doesn't have to be that big to be a working engine, right? So it does not have to be a Volkswagen engine. True. So. Okay. Now in 1891, so now he's in his late 20s, yeah, because he's born in 1863. Right. So he's 28, 27 years old. Ford was an engineer for the Edison illuminating company of Detroit. I love the name. Okay. Okay. Wait, wait, wait, okay, stop, stop, stop, sure. Ford, Ford essentially worked for Edison. Uh-huh. Talk about a couple of evil motherfuckers. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Okay. Sorry. Yep. Just that. I

couldn't let that go uncommented. Sure. Sure. Unremarked. Okay. He's working for the Edison illuminating company of Detroit because if there's one thing that inventorsmented. Sure, sure. Unremarked. Okay, so he's working for the Edison illuminating company of Detroit because if there's one thing that inventors are known for, it's short names for their companies. Within a couple of years, he had been promoted to chief engineer for Edison in Detroit. And at this...

This... Okay. Okay. Yeah. There's there's residents there. OK, carry on. It would be like if you found out, Dr. No was.

Be working for Modoc. Well, I was going to say the physician for gold finger. OK, there you go. You know, that's a better, it's a better analogy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, there you go. You know, that's a better analogy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow, really? So, okay. At this point, he begins experimenting on gasoline engines, which leads to the 1896 invention of the Ford Quadro cycle. So he built his first engine in 1887, and in96 he has built the quadracycle. Okay, so he's now in his 30s. Yeah, he's 35. Oh no, 33.

This is one of, this is the one, the one that's generally credited with being his first car, not the first car, but his first car. Okay, he was bicycle tires, basic frame, ethanol engine. I found that part particularly interesting. This one, he sold to a guy named Charles Ainsley for $200, which I could not find a inflation calculator that goes back that far. But there's a lot of money.

A lot of goddamn money. He later bought it. He bought it back for 60 bucks. See, that just proves that auto depreciation has been a thing since literally the beginning. True. The moment you drive it off the line, it loses half its goddamn value.

Like this is why my family never buys new cars. Like there you go. Now interestingly, according to Ford himself, he says, quote, in 1892, I completed my first motor car powered by a two cylinder four horsepower motor with a two and a half inch bore and a six inch stroke, which was connected by a counter shaft, by a belt, and then to the rear wheel by a chain. I made my first car, dude, like, okay. Okay. You don't hang out with enough engineers. No, clearly.

No, clearly. No, because some of my best friends are engineers, and all of that sounds totally normal. Yeah, are they listening? Because this next part's going to make them wet. best friends are engineers and all of that sounds totally normal. Are they listening? Cause this next part's going to make them wet. The belt was shifted by a clutch lever to control speeds at 10 or 20 miles per hour. Augmented. And that voice probably does. Brottle.

Well, yeah. Yeah, I fucking, I don't know what any of this shit means. It just, okay, you had a staring thing and you, I think you could shift two years. I don't know. I, are you, are you like trying to do performative humanities major stuff here? Like no, like I suffered to write this. God damn it. Like, and this, this wasn't the part that I suffered the most.

There's shit that I was like, if I drank, I would be in a stupid right now. That's coming. But in the meantime, look, I just interject here. Like, my closest friend from college is in the process right now of building his own airplane. Wow. Yeah.

In his garage. It's pretty fucking cool. What is he, a James Taylor fan? No. Oh, no, no. Sweet dreams. But flying machines and stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I get it. But no. I'm not even going to know. I'm not going it, but no. I'm not even gonna know. I'm not gonna dignify it. And the thing you need to understand about anybody with an engineering kind of mindset is those details are inseparable

from the rest of the story. Like if you just said, I built my own car, that's not the whole story. Like if you just said, I built my own car, that's not the whole story. You have to explain how you built it. Because a 70% of why it's awesome is like, and this is how I solve the problem. Yeah. So, okay. All right. You don't speak tech priest. I don't. Yeah. So, okay. All right. Sorry. You don't you don't speak tech priest. I don't. Okay. Don't that's fine. It's cool for them. I think that's one. Yeah. Curious. Um, there was more, but people are driving and listening to our podcasts. And I don't want them to fall asleep at the wheel. So, so I'll skip ahead to the sexy part. Quote, in the spring of 1893, the machine was running to my partial satisfaction and giving an opportunity to further test out the design and material on the road.

That would really it probably actually said it a little bit like that. Probably. It would translate to about a thousand miles worth of driving over the next two years. Oh, yeah, for the time period, that's pretty fucking impressive. Think of what he's supposed to felt like. I don't even know how much dollar he would have been in later life if he had found a different career path. Right. It's very likely that the quadrocycle was the first made for commercial consumption, whereas the first one that he'd completed and experimented on was his prototype.

Okay. So in 1896 Ford met with a number of Edison executives and met with Thomas Edison himself. They talked Edison encouraged Ford to experiment more with making automobiles, which led Ford to making another one in 1898. So I like the cut of your gypsum. I'm going to keep going over here with electricity and all the stuff that's going to make your shit work. You go and make more of that shit because factories. I don't think Edison actually had that kind of forward thinking when it comes to that specifically. I don't think Edison actually had that kind of forward thinking when it comes to that specifically. But it certainly was in Edison's best interest that Ford continued making shit that would eventually require automation and electricity.

Yeah, I would just argue that probably Edison looked at Ford and went, you're a similarly ambitious technically minded, repacious mother fucker. Yeah. Go get him. Go get him. Yeah. I don't I don't think it's even even as calculated as, oh, this is going to require automation. No, no. I had to put a lot of his effort into the invention of a thing or stealing the idea for the invention of a thing. He didn't put a lot of his idea into the, well, he didn't successfully put a lot of his thinking into the marketing thereup and the commodifying it. That's what he had westing house.

Yeah, it's what he had westing house for. But I mean, he did also try like hell to make New Jersey and Philadelphia, I don't know if his Philadelphia specifically is just Pennsylvania, but Jersey and Pennsylvania to be the center of American cinema and a bunch of people at West were like, no, there's natural light out here. Fuck you. We're going to this. Yeah, it's, yeah. Good point. Which led to sun tans and sunglasses. Yeah. As well as some actresses getting involved in gang bangs with the USC football team, which included John Wayne. I'll have to hunt that down for you. Somewhere in the middle of that, there's a leap that I didn't entirely follow.

of that, there's a leap that I didn't entirely follow. But what USC was the University of Southern California, and there was a lot of cross-pollination with actresses and actresses in Hollywood. Okay. Yeah, who would get involved in gangbanks with the USC football team? You okay. Yeah. So, the stuff that I didn't need to research still makes it in. So in 1898, Ford makes another automobile and then he quits from the Edison company to start his own business.

He then gets capital backing from a guy named William H. Murphy, who was a lumber baron in Detroit and he founded the Detroit automobile company in 1899, which fell over and sank into the swamp. It failed a year and a half later. Well, yeah. Oh, Ford, you know, he said something or is either him or Edison, where's like, you know, I, I failed like 40 times so I could succeed the 41st or some shit like that. Yeah, yeah. And Ford absolutely did that with business for a little while. He really did. Now remember, he did learn bookkeeping, but that doesn't necessarily mean that his mechanical mind transferred over to marketing successfully, the idea. Or, or, I mean, even though you, I mean, you can look at a set of accounting tables.

can look at a set of accounting tables. And see, you know, inflow outflow and still think, well, you know, but my idea is a giant killer. Right. You know, and not understand that like, the public is not fucking ready for this yet. Yeah, you're, this is not gonna go the way you think it's gonna go. Right.

Yeah, you can do all. You can do all. You can do all. You can do all. You know, it's going to go slower than you want it to. Yeah. Yeah. Now, he then continued to make racing vehicles, speaking of slower. No, wait, I'm sorry. That doesn't come into later. First, he works on making a better automobile and he starts the Henry Ford company in November

of 1901. So his other company failed 11 months earlier. He makes this new company with the help of other stockholders, including Murphy again, and a guy named C. Harold Willes, who would be recorded as the very first, or at least one of the very first employees in the Henry Ford company. Now it's called the Henry Ford company.

This company would later change its name to Cadillac automobile company after Ford left because Murphy was looking at what's going on. He brought in a guy named Henry Leeland who is another inventor and Ford was like, man, fuck that, I'm out. Pride. Yeah, well, yeah. And then he starts making these racing vehicles, because he's like, I'm gonna show him. And he's trying to prove the quality of his goods. What better way to prove that

horses' vehicles are really cool than to make them go as fast as possible and have people race them. And he started another company, several actually with a bunch of other wealthy extraction capitalists, uh, in 1902 with the backing of Alexander Malkymsen, this time a coal baron in the Detroit area, uh, he formed Ford and Malkymsen limited. The, the least, they, they both leased a factory and they contracted with a machine shop that was owned by John and Horace, the Dodge Brothers, who supplied them with $160,000 in parts, which I did find a calculator here, is roughly the equivalent of $4.5 million worth of parts.

Really? Yeah. Wow. Now again though sales were slow and the Dodge Brothers demanded payment for their first shipment of parts. In order to save the company they went a little Ponzi scheme before Ponzi got here. Mal Malcolm Sim got other investors to invest. Then they created a new company, which the Dodge Brothers accepted partial ownership of. Ford and Malcolm Sim then became Ford Motor Company, which also then had the Dodge Brothers as investors, as well as future Detroit mayor and Michigan Senator James Cousins, as well as candy maker and Detroit banker and uncle of Malcolm sin, John Gray, who came on as

the president, because Malcolm sin was like, Ford, you need to chill out. We want someone who's president who's a little more chill. How about the candy man? Eventually, this leads to the Model T in 1908, which was a very simple to use, easy to repair, standardize, and relatively inexpensive automobile. It cost $825, which back then was the equivalent

to just over $23,400 in today's money, which I found fascinating because you look at the cost of sedans. It's not far off. Yeah, in fact, it was cheaper about 20 years ago, right? We're talking like 10 to 13,000. Now this leads to a tremendous publicity campaign on Ford's part. See, this is what he was good at.

By 1914, there were more than a quarter million Model T's that were sold and the price kept dropping. By 1918, a majority of cars in the United States were Model T cars, which means that the Model T became the standard by which all others were compared. To the point where it's entirely likely that a vast majority of car drivers by World War II had first been trained on a Model T. And that makes sense. That follows. I can see that. Ford wanted to make an affordable automobile, right, thus cornering the market and becoming very, very rich. And while that might sound uncharitable of me, he cawned his investors into selling him controlling ownership in 1918. He then turned the presidency

of Ford Motor Company over to his son Edsel right after World War I ended. Okay, wait, stop. You're telling me that the name Edsel was his. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. That's okay. He was just appointment in many ways. Yeah. He then started the Henry Ford and Sun company and he made a big show of taking himself and his best employees over to the new company. And then he convinced or scared his stockholders in Ford Motor Company to sell their shares to him so before they'd lose all value. And then when they did, he and his son purchased the remainder from the other stockholders giving his family full total control and ownership over a previously public company called Ford Motor Company. Okay. So he basically

Bruce Tickanary wound up holding full ownership of the company that became the juggernaut. Yes. Four years later, he bought Lincoln Motor Company, which had been founded by Henry Leeland and his son. And then he pushed them out of that company. Now, by the mid-1920s, Ford actually shut down production for 18 months in order to retool and set up a new auto plant. He continued innovating and retooling, resisting new technologies that he didn't create,

and he did so without ever having an accounting department or opening his company to the public. In 1956, the Ford Motor Company finally went public, which necessitated public accountability, which means they finally had to have an accountant. He used to actually weigh his invoices by weight to determine how wealthy he was doing. Literally, how much do these invoices weigh this month? No accounting.

Yeah. No accounting. Yeah, the background in bookkeeping now. I know, but he was, I got an invention. Okay. I like I'm having a hard time forming the word to express how completely batch it that is. Yeah. Like so what, okay.

And now, and I'm gonna need to go off on attention. Sure, because this is Henry Ford, we're talking about who is weighing his invoices to try to figure out how good his business is. Yeah. And then like decades later, we have Howard Hughes, who was, who was, who was an an erinotic genius, like who, who, who was a visionary, responsible for, for some remarkable feats of aviation engineering. And, and he was, I mean, part of what he's famous for is being batshit crazy.

Yeah. You know, massive germaphob, huge OCD, you know, anxiety issues, you know, and I just want to point out here as part of this discussion that the movie, the aviator is an amazing, amazing performance by Leo DiCaprio playing him. And it's an, it's an incredible biopic. But I've never gotten around to seeing it. I need to because I like Alan Alda. And he plays the right bastard in that.

Oh, he is such a shit heel. Yeah. Oh, my God. But, but is that where the income from where he's like got the cigarette and he's pointing and going, Oh, no, that's great. No, that's wolf of wall street. Oh, I want to say that's wolf of wall street, where he's where he's sitting and pointing. Okay, is is wolf of wall street. Okay, there aren't, you know, there

aren't that many memes from the aviator. There's a bunch from Great Gatsby. And there's a bunch from Wolf of Wall Street. But for some reason, the aviator gets overlooked and that's kind of a shame because if any movie deserves to be meme, that's that one. But like, I mean, getting back to Howard Hughes himself, he was this, he had this

amazing inventive mind. But he was also like stone cold, batshit nuts. And like this is a trail from way back that like, you know, the creative geniuses are the ones that are, that are, you know, batch and nuts. But like, you kind of look at these two guys and, and Ford having this incredible mechanical mind. Oh, yeah. But at the same time, having, having the common sense that God gave us nail. Like, well, again, you come back to that watchmaking thing that you said, I'm an impulation of the thing and my control of the thing makes the thing work really well.

I am alone. Okay, yes, I and I, okay, all right. That makes sense. I think that you really cracked the code on him quite honestly in that very first sentence about his amateur career as a watch repairman. Yeah. Okay.

That makes sense. All right. So he perfected an industrialized process as we know on building cars and he used his assembly line. This enabled him to pay a lot of people very little money as they didn't require over specialization or knowledge. And the steps which they were trained in were easy to train someone else in. Thus a lot less worker power ultimately, which means you could lower the cost of production,

which is a fascinating juxtaposition to how he actually started because he started by granting a five dollar wage to his employees in 1914, which was a thing unheard of. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was incredible. And he said, yeah, I don't want constant turnover. I want these employees happy.

And I want them doing things. And it definitely brought workers to Ford. In fact, I have a family who crossed over the Ohio River to come to work for him and set up my maternal line as being from Dearborn Michigan. My paternal line also comes from Dearborn, but not for that. So further, Ford set up something called the Social Department, and that department was a spy department on his employees. It looked into their activities away from work. If you avoided gambling, if you avoided being a deadbeat dad,

if you avoided heavy drinking, carousing, and anything else that the 50 investigators and their support staff would find objectionable, you were eligible for profit sharing. would find objectionable, you were eligible for profit sharing. Just out of curiosity off there. Sure. So he's setting this system up in 19 what now? That was, let's see, at least 19. I want to say that was in the 20s. I don't have a specific date as to when he set up the social department.

Did he, did he some contract to the Pinkerton company? Not that I could find. I was looking specifically for that. Okay. No. And your brain in mind went to the same exact. And here's why he didn't. You don't contract out. You keep that shit in house.

That's not either, neither a borrower in Here's why he didn't. You don't contract out. You keep that shit in house. That neither neither a borough or a noraline. Or a lender be. Right. Now, I'm not saying unions here, by the way. I don't know if you noticed. Oh, I noticed. Yeah.

Now, I noticed. Now, Ford, when it came to World War One One was dead set against World War One Now he wasn't against it for the reasons that you and I would be against it You know because war is a really fucking bad idea for humanity or like Repassifists no he was against it because it was a waste of productivity Every worker killed is one fewer worker is one more person with training that you put money into who's now dead. And that argument actually does work long term from an economic perspective. Like war is never ever profitable unless it's a war specifically to go steal other people's

shit. And even then it takes a while for it to turn around for you. And even then it's not sustainable. Look at the Roman Empire. Right. It's law of diminishing returns. Eventually you run out of shit to steal from people. I mean, you're kind of talking about capitalism in general, but yes. Kind of, but you know, I'm going to the well spring. Yes.

Yes. Now, if you build a bomb, the best case scenario is that it works and you cannot reuse that bomb. It will also kill a bunch of their workers in the process. Now, if you build a bomb and it doesn't work, you also cannot reuse it because it did not work. So Ford is like, none of this shit makes sense. So Ford is like none of this shit makes sense. If you make a thing. I mean, purely rationalist economic standpoint. None of this is logical.

Right. Why are we spending money on this? This is a waste of capital. It's a waste of labor. It's a waste of everything. Exactly. Even if this works, it is waste's capital. Look. Now, he absolutely co-opted pacifists to push his anti-war message, even though his motives were very different.

And entirely big, unary. But I don't really mind a big tent piece for Gade, so I'm cool with that. But when he went to neutral countries, he got mocked hard because they didn't see his pacifism as pacifism. They saw him for what he was. The hoxster. Well, or a person who was an unfeeling, unthinking about humanity person and cared more about machines and the efficiency of their operation. Then he cared about the humanity of the people not being killed. Yeah, I can see how the Belgians wouldn't like him very much, right?

Like, I'm sorry. I think he actually just got marched over by the German fucking army. No. Sweden and the Netherlands specifically like had mocked him when he came to port on this tour. That, I can see that. Yeah. had mocked him when he came to port on this tour. That I can see that. Yeah. Now, once the United States entered the war, he did what most American Patriots did, and he got real quiet about his pastivism, and his overseas factories

supplied Britain with plane engines, and his US factories did the same thing for the US plane engines, as well as anti-submarine boats. So he, even though he was against the war, he re-tooled his shit to sell things for war. And of course, he also made lots of weapons. And there was, you know, like, there's a part of this that is, well, okay, this is the course of action the country has decided on. Right. I'm going to do my part. There's also more to the point, I think, for Ford. Well, okay, it's wasteful, but they're paying me. But that first part's really important too. Like, he straight up said, munitions is going to be short term profitable, but long term, it's going to harm production overall.

And that'll slow innovation. And I think this is the real thing. His wealth was a tool toward innovation for him. At some point, it becomes keeping score and it does become the emblem by which he measures his success. But I think at this stage of the game, he cares so much more about being able to innovate and you can't do that with dead workers. You can't do that with blown up shit. And you need

everyone's workers and everyone's shit working because then that will get all the machines going and you can come up with cool new stuff. Okay, innovation for innovation sick being the goal. Yeah, I mean, look at what he did. He, you know, didn't like farming, even though he was left the family farm. And it was a, it wasn't hyper lucrative, but it was a family farm that had been left to him. So it's clearly doing all right.

And he's like, nah, I want to do machines, you know, and he kept quitting to do crap. Yeah. So when the war ended, Woodrow Wilson encouraged Ford to run for Senate. Because Wilson basically was like, look, I need more support for the League of Nations. You liked peace. Run for Senate.

Okay. And Ford said, all right, I'll run, but I'm not going to spend any of my own money. And he lost, but actually not by much. Okay. So if he actually put the effort in, he probably, we would be talking about Senator Ford as well. He did support the League of Nations as a private citizen and as an industrialist, but not as a legislator because he didn't win. Yeah. He even funded speaking tours in support of it. Like he genuinely believed in League of Nations because again, it comes back to this is good for business. Exactly. Now by 1922 Ford claimed that it didn't exist anymore. He stated in his memoir, you know, so the things spying on people thing. In his memoir, he stated, quote, welfare work that consists in prying into employees' private concerns is out of date. Men need counsel and men need help, often special help. And all this

ought to be rendered for decency's sake. But the broad workable plan of investment and participation will do more to solidify the industry and strengthen the organization Then will any social work on the outside without changing the principle we have changed the method of payment Now he's writing in a memoir after the fact but He thinks He thinks that a good, healthy, decent worker is a productive worker. Okay. So, I mean, I can't disagree with the idea that a worker who is healthy is going to be a better worker.

I would even say one who does not engage in excessive vices is probably going to be a better worker too. Okay granted. I will I will even go that far. There is a really profound paternalistic overtone there though. Uh-huh. Like yeah. There is there is so much Puritan in that it's it's remarkable some Yankee ass shit right there It really is some intensely Yankee ass shit and yeah and some really Like I'm trying to figure out how to how to categorize it because you know the Puritan's Certainly had social hierarchy, but there was a very strong, I want to say, undercurrent, but a very strong thread of, like in the church, we're all egalitarian.

We all pair, we all pair, we all pair, deduce to the church, we're all members of the church. And however much land you own, however much whatever else, when it comes to voting in the church, we all have the same vote in the church. There is a really powerful noblesse oblige or or not nobles bless a place. There's a really powerful, paternalist overtone here. Oh, he absolutely. That is that is post-pureton. Yeah, well, this is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on- This is also on-

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Like, you know, we want, you know, eight hours for wake work, eight hours for rest, an hours to do what we will. Right. Like, here's the thing with, with Ford, he will, and you'll see this again, again, and again, he will resist, resist, resist, and then when it's when he does do the right thing, he doesn't just do the right thing, he does it all the fucking way. He is in with both feet. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, you know, I can't disagree with him on this point. Right. Like, right. You know, there's there's there's there's a there's a very significant, you know, Catholic part of my brain. It's like, well, you know, if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, it doesn't entirely

count. Well, I do keep pointing out that his reasoning is suspect. I will say it's suspect because this also means that it's rebatable. As in, he can take it back at any time if he decides that it's actually better for his idea of productivity. Okay. Now, also notice, I'm still not saying unions for fucking union. Well, yeah.

Yeah, he was wholesale against them. He straight up, I mean, boilerplate shit. Listen to this. Quote, the leaders don't help. And the good work unions do can do is negated by that. Fuck you. Right. Now in full disclosure, I'm very pro union. So anybody who's listened to this show probably knows that more than a few episodes knows that you are and remain, you have been are and remain a union rep.

Yes. And up until very recently, before I moved to my new site, I was also one. Yes. So our positions on unions are basically in lockstep and are shaped very much by the fact that we're both public schoolteachers. Yeah, and history teachers at that. Yeah, and like, okay, so give me a social studies education and then throw me into a job

where I am undervalued by society at large. And I have to deal with management who are constantly looking for any excuse to undercut me. Oh, and I can unionize? Okay. Oh, okay. I think I'm gonna fucking do that. Yeah, I mean, it's an hour job.

It's a no-brainer. Like, quite so. Yeah, you know, so, so yeah, and yeah, yeah, else to add there just like here's here's Ford again on his opposition to unions, right? So basically, if you think about his stance against them, it was based in this idea that unions are self-defeating because Ford thought that they stood in the way of progress and productivity. And since he saw things in terms of mechanics, he saw things as pressure and innovation.

And if a job got more productive and needed fewer workers, then other jobs would open up in the economy for those workers, you can reuse a cog after all. It's a mechanistic view of economics. It's a mechanistic view of the universe, and it's a very self-serving view. It's also very loyal to the system that he is accepting as being inevitable and already extant. It's like when my students in economics, they'll be like, well, if the goal is to maximize profit. And that means you lower cost and you maximize, you know, blah, blah, blah. And they always get to this point where I just look at them and I'm like, you do realize you just justified slavery, right? And half of them will double down because at that point, they're invested in the system's existence. And the other half are like, oh, shit, you just played us.

It's like, yeah, it's laid yourself. Yeah. That's itself. And he is absolutely 100% loyal to the narrative and the system. And like it's like when someone gets an idea in their heads, they will nurse it well beyond what's healthy way too often. Well, you know, and bear with me for a second. Cause this is gonna go in a bit of a weird direction. On my lunch break, I peruse Reddit. And one of the subreddits I go to is Ask Men, which is remarkably a lot less toxic and ugly than I would expect.

It's generally actually pretty wholesome. But there was a guy who posted a question But there was a guy who posted a question about if you have an income that is significantly larger than your partners, like if you're the one bringing in nearly all of the money, what is the advantage to getting married? And like that very question, begs the question in such a way that it's commodified a partner. Yes. Yeah. Right. And the thing is, and the reason I bring this up is because that's the same kind of mindset that you see with Ford, it's everything is transactional.

Everything is commodified. And it's like you can't really put a dollar amount on human dignity. Right. You can't really put a dollar amount on an individual worker's right to say, okay, now look, I'm done, I need a break. Yeah, or I'd like to talk to the guy working here. Or I'd like to be able to talk to the guy working next to me. Or, you know, the, you know, it's been shown

that I don't have like specific, I can't cite anything here, but I know from from from studies and I have heard that from, you know, people who have done studies. You know, we know that we as a species, humans, as the primates that we are, we want to do work that is meaningful, right? And if we don't have a job to do, we fall into depression. There's all kinds of bad stuff that happens. We want to work. Yes. But at the same time, that work has to give us some kind of meaning or some kind of reward. Or we might just not be doing it. We slip into the same kind of depression, all that of the stuff.

And one of the things that's part of the role of a union, especially in any kind of mechanized work, like factory work, is to give workers the ability to stand up as a group and say, no. Right. You know, and to be able to exert a level of power. And folks who want to folks like Ford, especially corporate types in management positions, it's really easy for them and really convenient for them to make the moral assumption that like, well, you know, if you if you don't want to be more productive, then your motivation must be like you're lazy, you just don't want to work. You know, as opposed to, well, okay, no, what you're trying to say is gonna improve efficiency is also going to cause hardship. Right.

You know, what you're calling for is going to lead to abuse by and there and it's really easy for folks at the upper end of a power dynamic to ignore or choose to not notice that, yo, there's a power dynamic here. And the only option that workers have is to band together as a group and say, no, you fuck with one of us, you're fucking with all of us. together as a group and say, no, you fuck with one of us, you're fucking with all of us. But at the end of the day, a union's power is a means to an end to be able to stop working. A watch does not stop working. Ranted.

And that is for its problem with them, right? Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Now, like I said, when you get an idea in your head, you will nurse it well beyond what's healthy to do, right? Like to the point of hiring and promoting Harry Bennett to keep his workers from unionizing. And eventually, when you're right, you still have to convince other people by using violence. No, no, I'm going to quibble there. If you're actually right, you shouldn't

need to use violence. Oh, I'm just going to say, I mean, maybe it's the hippy dip Catholic in me, but I don't think that's the way it's supposed to work. Oh, wait, did I miss your sarcasm filter again? No, your fizz. That sometimes happens. Yeah. Okay. So we're going to leave it there actually because I think hiring Harry Bennett is a great way to start the next episode. So if you want me to dig out a third beer, yeah, yeah, you should because this was the shit that led me to want to drink. Yeah, yeah, you should because this was the shit that led me to want to drink. So it's okay. Yeah, good to know. Bet you wish I was talking about more stansers, huh? I'm looking forward to when we can get back to that, right?

Because I know, I know eventually we're going to come back around to it, but of course, yeah, but yeah. So what's he reading lately? Well, I am still reading the stolen book. Yes, it's a book on a book. Yeah, it's a debut book, if I recall. It was, in fact, his debut book he has since written several others. And highly recommended. It's an amazing book. And I'm not just saying that because, you know, he's literally my oldest friend. George is my oldest one. I'm still in touch with regularly. You know, like, yeah, no, it's an amazing burger. I highly recommend it. So that's what I'm reading. Okay. How about you?

I'm reading IBM and the Holocaust, the strategic alliance between Nazi Germany and America's most powerful corporation. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna double down on my recommendation because I think it's going to lead to less liver damage overall. Yeah, yeah. Mine mine is clear that I am happy with being miserable. Yeah. It clearly. Yeah, clearly. Yeah, it's not good. It's not good.

Not a healthy pattern. Yeah, yeah. But portentious. Where can people find you on social media? I can be found on social media to, you know, not that we're changing the subject or anything. I can be found at Mr. underscore Blalock on TikTok. I can be found at EH Blalock on Twitter and on Instagram.

And where can they find you, sir? You can find me at the Harmony One, 2 Hs in the middle on TikTok. There's plenty of content there if you want to hear any really amazing puns. You can also short ones and long ones is up to you. You can also find me at the Harmony 2 Hs in the middle on Twitter and Instagram. Let's see, by the time this comes out, we will have already done the April first show. So look for us in early May. All right. Because I almost said a geek history of time. Because capital punishment will probably be back live unless that variant comes through

and sweeps through the land like did Delta and Omicron. And what are the odds of that happening? I mean, we just about got started. You know, let's for the moment, let's be hopeful and try to generate positive waves. Yes, like, yes. So look for capital punishment in Sacramento, capital with an O because it's a pun. Look for us and you can find us there.

It's good. Cool. Yeah. And did you say where we could be found corporately? I did not. Let let the people know where we can be found as a unit. Geek history time.com. Check us out there. If you don't like using the apps such as the Apple Podcast app or Stitcher, if you don't like using those, you can go straight to our website and check us out there. Click around and find out, as I like to say. And then also GeekHistory of time on Twitter. Yes. So you could find us there and tell me what I got wrong

about Henry Ford, especially you gear heads who think that I am just terrible for not giving a shit about a bicycle tire. Your ratios. Oh my God. Anyway, I'm still getting over the fact that it used bicycle tires because I can't imagine it being anything other than like a rolling chiropractic adjustment. Oh yeah, like it sounds goddamn miserable.

Tell you what, send us gifs of Henry Ford's stuff there. There you go. I like it. Cool. Well, for geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blaylock. And until next time, what's good for the auto industry is good for America. Wait, that's GM.