A Geek History of Time - Episode 194 - The Dark Crystal from Two States to a Fractured State Part I

Episode Date: January 21, 2023

So thank you all for coming to Cocktalk. He has trouble counting change, which is what the hands think. Wait, wait, stop. Yes. But I don't think that Dana Carvey's movie, um, coming out at that same time, was really that big a problem for our country. I still don't know why you're making such a big deal about September 11th, 2001. Fucking hate you. Well, you know, they don't necessarily need to be an anthem, but they are indefinitely on different end-to-end spectra. Oh boy, fucking hate you. Well, you know, you necessarily need to be anathema, but they are definitely on different

aspects. Oh boy, I have a genetic predisposition against redheads. So because you are one, yeah, combustion, yeah, we've heard it before. The only time I change a setting is when I take the hair trimmer down to the nether reaches, like that's the only time. Other than that, it's all just a two I'm joking I use feet after the four gospels what's the next book of the Bible? okay and after that it's Romans.

Yeah, okay, and if you look at the 15th chapter of Romans, okay, you will find that it actually mentions the ability to arm yourself That's why worth it. This is a geek history of time. Where we connect, murdering to the real world, the name is Ethelay Lund, a world history named, which teachers are here and you're either in California. And in order for me to tell you the story and about to tell you all, Damian already knows this, of course. And so if you're an important number listing audience already does too, hi folks, you this will give him the portion of her listing audience already does too.

Hi, folks, you all know us. Most of you anyway. But for anybody who doesn't, I have been working as situously for the last two years this year and the year prior, at my current teaching site to develop my reputation as the site eccentric. To that end, I am the only teacher who shows up on a daily basis in a collared shirt, necktie, and a vest. And I have of late been wearing an inverness cape because the weather has gotten cold and because of the season of the year and we're getting close to the holiday season, I have also started curling my mustache. I grew it out over the last couple of months.

And so as as I speak right now, I have a waxed curled handlebar mustache. And so the other day I was standing at the door to my classroom, wearing the Infernesque cape because it was cold out. And with my mustache curled as I just described. And it was it was chilly. The change of seasons had now happened in our neck of the woods. was chilly. The change of seasons had now happened in our neck of the woods. And so it was probably about 45 degrees, which I'm sure people in many parts of the world were listening to it, like, oh, you don't even know what you're talking about. That's not cool. Remember, this is Northern California. We're soft here. When it comes to cold anyway. And so it was about 45 degrees. And of course, I'm teaching sixth graders. So I have a group of kids lined up outside my classroom and two of them close to the door. I open the door

and I step out and two of them close to the door. So Mr. Blalock, you've got to let us in. We're freezing! And I look at them and one of them, a shit you not has shorts on. And the other one has on long trousers, but is wearing a t-shirt. And I pointed this out to them and they said, well, yeah, but it's cold out here. Whatever, there's six graders. I said, just just get inside. What I wanted to say and were I teaching seventh or eighth graders what I said, just just get inside. What I wanted to say, and where I teaching seventh or eighth graders, what I would have said was, I need you to

look at me. And then I need you to understand that when a man with a waxed handle bar mustache, who is wearing a cape, tells you you're being dramatic. Maybe you need to dial it back a couple of notches. So that's that. I had that thought go through my head and I was like, oh my god, I, I, yeah, I am that guy. Um, so yeah, that's, that's, that's my note for the, for the beginning of this episode. Um, how about you? What are you going on? I'm Damien Harmony. I am a Latin teacher for one more year.

And a US history teacher up here in Northern California at the high school level. And the news that I've got is that I am... Well, there's a couple things, really. First of all, my son has started punning off of prepositions, which is pretty cool. That's another step up. America, one by one. And so yesterday, he asked me where Monterey was on the map. And I said, oh, fine San Francisco, work your way down.

And Monterey is kind of a smaller place for those of you who don't know. Monterey is very famous for its aquarium, but it's also a very small town. So on a map, it will show up as like one of the smaller words. And he gets all the way down to like San Luis Obespo and he's like, it's not there. I said, no, no, no, work your way back up. Again, start up at the top and work your way south, you know, along the coast. And what I realized was, oh, on the other side of that bay is a bigger town.

So I said, okay, when you find Santa Cruz, you know, like work your way back up or back down. Anyway, yeah. So basically, I was like, you know, when, when you get to Missanum, work your way back up to, you know, so and he was able to fight it there like no problem. So anyway, he's like, okay, that's where it is. Hmm. I don't know what species are native to that area. And then he spent the rest of the day researching zoology in that area and he has now rebuilt

the entirety of the Monterey zoo, which is actually, as he told me tonight, in Salinas, not Monterey. And I said, oh, did you finish the San Diego zoo? No, I took a break from that. It's pretty big. So I took care of the big cat exhibit. And I'm like, I'd have to find you to find another child who is redesigning famous world famous zoos.

So. Yeah, as a native native San Diego and I'm impressed and the school protected. Yeah, like hey, wait a minute, man. It's you know, whatever. But he has already done so I forget what other zoos he's done. I think he did the Philadelphia zoo, which is actually the old a zoo in the United States. But yeah, yeah. But it just now, and now I know.

Yeah, so that's what he's done. My daughter worked her first paid gig. She has a writer, as you know, she's published as a writer, which is more than you and I have ever done. And she started this small, there's like a 250 word submission that she calls an Ashen tale. Okay. And it's just like kind of the first intro to a character in a story. And like, you know, every kid that's in this, in this anthology, you know, they've published stuff and, you know, it's very in degrees of quality,

but like, hers is clearly a kind of above the rest. Like it's that moment when like you're playing a minor league team and you're like, oh, he's just working out some kinks. He just hit his fourth, you know, Grand Slam at a night. You know, that kind of, that kind of difference. Yeah. So the company or the, the community, uh,

organization that has an NGO. Yeah. Um, it's called, it's called 911 six ink. By the way, it's, it's phenomenal. Um, and it gets kids writing and, and both kids are presently in an afterschool program on Thursday's, which is, which is pretty neat. They had a fundraiser because you got to be begging the oldsters and the rich stirs for money to keep these things afloat because cities certainly aren't going to tax them for it. So the result is my daughter was asked to read her story to everyone so that they can see like, oh, this is what our money is going to.

So she's kind of the exemplar for her troubles. She got a $50 gift card to a local bookstore that she and I and William all three of us love frequenting. And so they got to show their mom that today. And you know, it's, I always love, you know, sharing like, Hey, this is a really cool thing. There's an easy win for you. Enjoy it, you know, go for it. So yeah, they took her to the there and back and they took her to the the capital books underneath, you know, where you got the basement and it's got really cool stuff.

But I explained it to her. I said, you do realize that for five minutes of work, you got paid $50. That's $10 a minute, which if you extrapolate that out, you got $600 an hour. I said, to be honest, you're in my territory now. You're working my side of the street. And she's like, really? I said, yeah, I mean, given how little time I spend on stage for the money that I make for my show,

you could do the same math. And she's like, wow, I said, yeah, the trick is to get hired for the whole hour now. That's a big jump. I don't even do that. That's a big jump. It is huge. It is huge. I would love to do that. And I would love for my daughter to do that. So anyway, so big, very cool, big cool thing. Yeah, it was on a rooftop. It was this gala. It was all kinds of, yeah, it was nuts. So that's what I got going on. Yeah, yeah.

And so that's the thing. I think, you know what tonight, there's been, there have been a few times where I've had an episode where I'm like, man, Ed really would have loved this, but I got a guest to be on and you were away or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Um, now, friend of the show who may not have listened since she was on the show, I don't know. Uh, there's this, uh, comedian named Ashley Monique, who is now now based in Oakland. And she is a friend of mine, who originally started as an

audience member of capital punishment. And then eventually I got her to be on capital punishment. And then I kind of kept pushing her. I'm like, you should do comedy. And when COVID hit, she found finally it was her time. And she found safe ways to do it. And now she has made comedy like most of her life. And she is very, very good at it. And I can only imagine good things. But way back, way back, I want to say in the 40s of episodes, you actually can hear her on one of the intros. She says, Agra has no business being that thick. Yes. Okay. That's her. But it occurred to me that you did not get to hear the fun and goodness that is dark crystal and the two state solution, things that make you go.

Hmm. Yeah, and I've been, I was, I was deeply disappointed at the time that I was not able to be the one on that episode with you. Well, today is your day. Today is your day. It should come. Arrow. I am, I am here for it. Now I'm not merely going to re tread an old tire.

I'm doing this as the opening salvo on a multi part series. That is the dark crystal then and the dark crystal now because as you may know, Netflix came out with a Dark Crystal series in 2019. Yeah, prequel. Yeah, called the Age of Resistance. And I am a big believer of like change over time. Let's see what happens. So the first few episodes of this will be about

the Dark Crystal then. So let's see, where to start? Well, the Dark Crystal came out in American theaters in December of 1982. Yep. It was a fantasy movie with the Muppets and animatronics that was for its time groundbreaking as heck. The early 80s saw an explosion of movies that created universe for us to inhabit and this was Hansen's crack at it. As you've done some research on fantasy movies, you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, just for a little bit of context. The Dark Crystal was came out in December of that year. Yes. That same here, film that we've already discussed at some

length, Conan the Barbarian came out in May. I don't say Tutsi. Yeah. No, Conan the Barbarian came out in May. Oh, I don't even say Tutsi. Yeah. No. Conan the Barbarian came out in May. Yes. The Beast Master came out in August. Okay. Which in my own research I found interesting because I always had thought that the Beast Master was made to cash in off of the popularity of Conan, but no, they were made at roughly the same time.

Yeah, yeah. And then in April of that year, the movie, the sword and the sorcerer, with Lee Horsley, was also released. So there's a glut in the market there. I mean, that's not that's, you know, Armageddon and Deep Impact. That's, yeah, that's jump around and jump. That's, yeah, well, it around and jump. That's, yeah. Well, it actually, it actually goes back to 81

when X-Caliber clash of the Titans, Dragon Slayer and Time Bandits all came out. Wow, well, there you go. So as our audience may just now kind of be, be twigging to, at the same time, you've been working on the dark crystal over time. I'm working on a series about fantasy movies over time. I wish you'd advertise that because you would have sounded so much smarter. I just like, I happen to know this shit.

Yeah. Wow. You have that in your pocket. No, I know. Hell no. pocket. No, I know. Hell no. I don't, I don't, I don't need, I don't need that, that, that kind of false glory. No. I think maybe you do. But I don't. Fuck you. Um, so anyway. Um, but, but, you know, um, it's interesting that, you know, you listen to the titles on that and dark crystal is kind of an outlier. And what would the in the well in kind of the subgenre? Conan the barbarian sword and sorcery, barbarian flick. Conan the barbarian. Yeah, all of them seem to have some sort of fighting-ness to their names. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I see. And yeah, and I don't want to get too far into the weeds on the rest of that because I have several episodes of my own. Sure. But dark crystal

stands out there. Okay. I'm going to say. Yeah. So the problem with releasing in December of 82 was that ET and Tootsie had already been massively popular actually that year. So part of this movie's lack of popularity can be laid at a very saturated field as what you had just said. But like ET takes the kids, right? Yeah, I think it gets the parents. Yeah, I think of the examples you're using. I think ET is the one that probably took the wind out of Dark Crystal's sales most. Yeah, but you can only get to so many movies. Yeah.

And so having Tutsi being out at roughly the same time, I wanna say, God, I think it released in, I want to say November, but I, That's kind of what I'm guessing of. Yeah, because it's, you know, holiday season of the average December, I know that ET had been a summer movie. No, I'm sorry, it did release in December

because I remember it was like right ahead of Christmas. Like, I remember because I was a, you know, my birthday's in December. So, just letting, you know, that geek timers, but my birthday's in December. And so I remember sobbing through ET. And I also remember Tootsie being like hot on its heels. So, you okay? Anyway, yeah.

Try to remember, I could have sworn that ET was a summertime like, because I thought I saw it with my grandparents, but I could be inflating a memory or miss remembering something. But it could be. Anyway, but I mean, regardless, it had, yeah, crystal head passive, significant. It had been a Christmas movie, right? Because it was a kids movie. We didn't have the summer blockbusters yet at that time. No, no, you're probably right.

Now that you think about it, yeah, it was, it was, anyway, I'm not gonna edit this out either. So, anyway, those two movies were very, very popular and ET stayed in the theaters forever because I remember here's why I'm remembering because it was raining like crazy when you came out when I or rather when I saw ET. It was raining like crazy. So I bet you it stayed in theaters for a long damn time.

Yeah, it stayed in theaters for a long damn time because Wikipedia, it stayed in theaters for a long damn time, because Wikipedia confirms release date was June 11th, 1982. There you go. All right, so they're massively popular. Also, another thing getting in the way the dark crystal to be perfectly honest, it's kind of boring. It's slow and plotting. It just is. There's no characters that really stand out

as beyond being mildly entertaining. Everybody remembers Chamberlain, but not much more than the stuff. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, if you go on YouTube, you can find, I think it is 12 hours of like, you know, really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I actually tried, this is several years ago now, last last two days of school, uh, showing the dark crystal to my students. And the plot was was too slow for minutes. Yeah. But I will never forget, uh, in my honors class, four minutes, but I will never forget in my honors class when when Chamberlain tries to lure the two gulflings to come with him. And you know, he's make peace. He's, he's, uh, one of my kids. My kids says it's like, come into my creepy van. Yep. Prophecy. Candy. My creepy, like creepy windowless van. Yeah. And yeah, and that'll stick with me forever. And

the plot is fairly standard too, you know, go get the thing, take it to the place, right? The world, while remarkable, is so busy that the main characters kind of get lost among the scenery too, because the main characters very, very tan earth and tones and the scenery seems to be set in the fall, even though the entire world is awake and alive and eating things. Now, it does turn a profit and actually, out of all the movies that year, it was the 16th highest grossing film. Okay. And it's also one of the highest-groping, groping. Cool. We got, please come into my van. It was one of the highest-groping, whoo. Oh, yeah, you got. He's coming to my van. It was one of the highest-grossing Muppet puppet movies of all time, just behind the Muppet movie. Which, while niche is remarkable.

However, the Dark Crystal, even though it's clearly another example of Bearded White Guys appropriating what little they knew about Eastern Ministers Mysticism like in your podcast about the Jedi. It is also a fascinating look into the Israel Palestine conflict that was ongoing in the 70s and 80s Okay Okay Which okay, so I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna guess here. That the parts of Eastern philosophy we're cribbing. In the case of the dark crystal are Taoism dual, Taoism's dualism.

Yes. And in that way, the Eastern Eastern belief systems are all kind of syncretic with each other. Right. Ideas of reincarnic with each other. Right. Ideas of reincarnation and dark. Yep. And and seeing beyond yourself, having a third eye, yeah, transcendental meditation, yep, and a stuff. Yeah.

Also, it's a fucking crystal. So, you know, it's the 70s. It's a crystal. New age. Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to get into that. Oh, okay. All right. I'm here. One thing I like beating up on it almost as much as Margaret Thatcher. Almost almost almost. And you like beating up a Margaret Thatcher almost as much as

like beating up a rock. Oh no, he's in a class unto himself. Like there's, there's no. That's, that's a whole that's, That's like if I were to ask you who your best friend is and you say Bishop O'Connell and somebody else walks by and goes, mine's my wife, you're like, look fucker. The wife is in her own category. Yeah. That's Reagan for me. That's rotating up.

Got it. Got it. But anyway, so Hanson starts writing the story in 1975, which is two years after the Yom Kaper War and three years after Munich and one year after the UN recognized Palestinians right to self-determination. The background to this is a lot of insurgencies, a lot of attacks from within Israel and from outside of Israel by various groups aimed at eliminating state of Israel and or armed

Palestinian liberation. And the background to this is also a lot of special forces attacks on small groups of people, a lot of state-sanctioned assassinations, and a lot of efforts to maintain the state of Israel amidst of all this opposition. The background to this is also a lot of rhetoric, where in one side wiping out the other one completely and is also refusing to compromise at all. And the background is also a lot of religious rhetoric about who's supposed to live there and how. And the background to this is also a lot of what is happening outside of Israel so that

the rest of the world cannot ignore it as an internal issue. And the background to this is also a lot of mass casualty attacks and murders of women and children. And the background of this is also a lot of dissension amongst the various groups who have a stake in Palestine's continued existence, including internecine murders. So he's writing with all of that in the air. Okay. So, okay. When he writes, it's bleak, which, and yet at the same time, this is Jim Henson. So, you're going to get a different version of bleak with him. This term called Hope Punk. And I've often seen Joy Punk being used, both of which are often associated with Jim Henson. punk being used, both of which are often associated with Jemhenson. Oh, okay.

So he writes a 25 page treatment that has flavors of the movie that we've come to love way more than we should. He's also been reading and self admittedly not understanding something called the Seth material. Have you heard of the Seth material? No, I can't say that I have. There was a woman named Jane Roberts who wrote this book in the early 1960s, and Jane Roberts claimed to be channeling a mail ghost named

Seth whom she'd met while using a Ouija board in researching ESP for another book. Okay. So I have to get this off my chest. Sure. Ouegee boards aren't invention of the Parker Brothers game company. To cash in on the same phrase of the question. Yes, but there is no lore about anything like a Weegee board that predates the invention of the Weegee board by Parker Brothers. So like people who scribe all this all this mysticism and all this all this shit to Ouija boards. And and the moment anybody mentions that, I'm like, okay, like as somebody who's interested in the history of

occultism and mystical stuff, you know, the Rosicruzians and and you know, order of the Golden Dawn and you know, Yates, I think it was kicking Alistair Crowley down a flight of stairs. Like all of that stuff, the moment you mentioned a Ouija board, I'm like, I'm not gonna take you seriously anymore, fuck off. Like I'm done.

I did, no. Okay. But anyway, carry on, the Seth material. I mean, if I'm a ghost, I'm gonna use whatever is available. So if cell phones are available, I'll start texting. If it's video cassette tapes, then I'll start to be a ring on the screen. Like on one hand, on the one hand, I understand the

pragmatism behind that. But on the other hand, if for some reason I ever wind up haunting the earth, like that's the one way you're not going to contact me. That's the only way I will. I'm gonna fuck with people so hard using that. Yeah, it's gonna be that. And like vague runes on like a mirror in the sink. Okay. When the steam's gotten going. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Anyway, sorry. Yep. That's okay. Carry on. Yeah, all right. Okay. Anyway, sorry. Yep. That's okay. Carry on. But this was a book written in the early 60s, right? Now, after World War II, the new age movement had been taking off as were other alternatives to standard churches that people had gotten used to. Largest part of this is, I mean, manifest by the fact that churches got bombed the shit out of after, I mean, after World War I, you had the lost generation where they found vodka

and, you know, gin this time, they find crystals. Yeah. After World War I, there was a huge uptick in occultism and mysticism and all that stuff. As it turns out, when humanity fails and religion fails to rein them in. Then the result is you have upticks like this. So this book becomes really,

really seminal in the new age philosophies and it is considered a quote, channeled work. That being that Seth channeled through her at plenty of gatherings and was a quote, energy personality essence no longer focused in physical matter. You see, he completed his earthly reincarnations and was now coming to them from a different planet of existence. Okay. And so she wrote that book. Okay. With him using her to channel it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

So I mentioned these details because this kind of self-oriented personal growth-based spirituality was a really popular thing in the 1960s. And we grow throughout the 70s. And this isn't meant as a dig. I'm merely making a correlative connection. I wasly acid comes on to the scene in 63 after the patent had expired. Though LSD had been in existence since 1938, the CIA was using it in the MK Ultra program in the 50s, and Aldous Huxley Kenkeasy and Tim Leary were staunch advocates of it.

That's what's happening in the United States and in the United Kingdom a lot, and so is this new age spiritual movement. They are co-evolving. Also Dr. Strange comics, shield comics oddly enough were also really big. And so was psychedelia in advertising. Okay. Yeah. So the Seth material covered a lot of ground as you might expect a groundbreaking book in

a genre to do, uh, covers the origin of the universe, what God actually is. And, and some names for God are all that is, all in capitals, um, or the multi-dimensional God, um, which, I don't know, if you've got to describe it, then you're kind of taking away from, you know, a little bit. It, it feels similar to I was thinking in my head the other day. And it's like, you didn't have to say that last part. Yeah, you get it, you know, but another, uh, you get guardian spirits, um, reincarnation, higher self, multi-dimensional reality, the purpose of life,

lots and lots more stuff. That will kind of, you know, springs forth from the Seth material. Okay. Now, what I'm zooming in on here, though, is this, the Seth materials talked a lot about people experiencing and creating realities of their own, not a shared objective truth on this level. The shared objective truth was still there,

but it was on a higher plane. Our higher selves shared an objective truth was still there, but it was on a higher plane. Our higher selves shared an objective truth down here on the earth. We're all in our own realities that sometimes abrade each other, sometimes bump into each other. And Jane Roberts, the one who's channeling Seth said, quote, if you want to change your world, you must first change your thoughts, expectations and beliefs and quote, which I'll give her points for that. That's true.

That's kind of like John Lennon saying, imagine there's no heaven in a call to like, hey, make shit work here. Yeah. I don't mind what she says there. That makes perfect sense to me. The old way of doing things clearly keeps getting people killed. If you want to change your world, you've got to change your thoughts, expectations of beliefs. Michael Jackson would say something similar later on. If you want to change the world, take a look at yourself

and make that change, you know. So. Okay. Yeah. No, it all makes sense. Yeah. Now, Jan Roberts is writing these books and influencing a legion of writers, also spiritualists, ministers, college students, people to satisfy it with the way that things were going in the 60s and 70s. And Jim Henson read and again admitted that he didn't understand, but also admitted that he liked it. So, yeah. Now, I'm going to point out something here. Israel is experiencing its own state as something that needs to be defended from anywhere from three to six Arab countries who are committed to the three nose of the Cartoum Resolution of 67, which is almost a generation after the creation of the Israeli state. Okay. The three nose of the Cartoum Res resolution of 67 were one, no piece with Israel, two,

no recognition of Israel, three, no negotiations with Israel. I mean, the only option at that point is yeah. Yeah. Now, this is their reality. This is Israel's reality. They are a recognized country by the United Nations and yet they are under constant threat of being attacked, wiped out, and certainly terrorized. Palestine is experiencing its own state as something that needs to be defended and liberated from a foreign intruder, and they sometimes get help from anywhere between three to six Arab countries who don't necessarily see them as equals, by the way, but as the enemy of their enemy, as a convenient rallying cry. And both of them worship the same God, who gave them both a claim to the same land, but in different books and at times. And under a different name, and with a host of different

conditions, we're looking for conditions. And yeah. Yeah. And yet, I mean, you basically have two people sharing the same space, not sharing the same reality, despite the reality of being remarkably similar. Oh, yeah, very much. So here's Jim Hansen, snowed in in an airport hotel, writing the beginnings of the dark crystal, steeped in a philosophy that he admittedly doesn't understand and living at the same time as two states exist simultaneously at one as one, and yet they exist at the expense of each other. It is a zero sum game on many levels. Okay. Now interestingly, he had tried LSD in the past, but he reported it had no effect on him. Which, okay. I mean, here's a guy who imagined and

manifested muppets into existence saying, yeah, I tried LSD and it didn't do anything. And his biography would later say, his biography would later say, is biographer would later say, of course it didn't because quote, Jim was already there. So. Okay, well, good to know. Yeah. Um, now, uh, Jim Henson spoke with Brian Fraud, the fantasy illustrator, turned concept artist for the movie, and David O'Dell, the screenplay writer, he made them both read this book, the Seth book.

It clearly had an impact on him and despite his not getting it, he still was getting a lot from it, apparently. O Adele even pointed to a very specific line that augur says about Jen's master's death, one of the main mystics, right? You know, and you know, he Jen says, you know, he's dead. She's like, where is he? Where is your master? Bubble blind. And he's like, he's dead. He could be anywhere then. Which, yeah. Which to us is kind of flip, but actually, he said that if he had not read Roberts' book, Odell, the screenwriter, said if he had not read Roberts' book, he never would have come over that line. Okay.

So, Odell spoke of Hanson's vision. He said, quote, the spiritual kernel of the dark crystal is heavily influenced by Seth. I've always felt that the idea of perfect being split into a good mystic part and an evil materialistic part, which are reunited after a long separation, is Jim's response to the teachings of that book. Jim admitted that he didn't understand the book himself, and that everyone would understand it or not understand it in their own way. But he thought that it opened up a whole different way of looking at reality, which I think was one

of his goals in the making of the dark crystal. I especially want to just highlight in their own way. So that's, you know, that's the soup that Jim Henson is swimming in. And it's a constant through line here that A, he doesn't understand it. And B, he really is getting a lot out of it despite not understanding it. Now, the original draft differs wildly from what we say on the screen. And I don't really care enough about that to discuss it over much, to be honest. Because it's not what gets through all the edits. It's not what gets through to the studio to release it. I will say that it was a very evil versus good, malevolent race taking over from a powerful group of wise folks,

and that ultimately the two races are reunified. That thread kind of stayed there. So again, an evil materialistic malevolent race takes over from a powerful group of very wise people. So you're seeing, yeah. Now, like a lot of white guys with beers in the 1970s who probably smelled it patchouli, he did borrow heavily from eastern mysticism going essentially from Persia through India Okay, yeah now throught the world that they lived in which is never mentioned on screen actually, but it is a part of the production a lot, you know a lot of their discussions and it's mentioned in their comic book adaptation That's absolutely true. Yeah, um proud spoke a lot of things like this. And, you know, he'd have liner notes and he'd have all kinds of notes, regarding, you know, the different species, even if they don't get named, you know,

it's that kind of thing. Same thing with the locations and the history behind this, you know, oh, this is a gulfling who is from the bubble, blah, blah. I'm just like, okay, we're going to keep the word gulfling in the movie, but the rest is going to fall away. Um, so the world that they lived on is never actually mentioned, um, but, uh, the original name of Thra was going to be Mithra, um, M-I-T-H-R-A-A, I think it's short answer to Thra, THRA. Mythra. Is that Mythras?

Is that ringing any bells to use? Mythraic mysteries. Oh, cool. The ancient Roman mystery cult. Oh, yeah, that's certainly. Konanified as Mitra in Robert E. Howard. Who's certainly a codanified as Mitra in property Howard. Hmm. It was also a bit of an orientalist. You know, a bit. Yep. Yep. Yeah. You you could say that. Yeah. Jen was supposed to be blue. I mean, that's

you want. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Blue, you say. Blue, I say. Yeah, he's go on. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Blue, you say. Blue, I say. Yeah, he's supposed to be blue. Like, like, Krishna. A little bit. A little bit.

Okay. All right. Wow. The podlings. The podlings were not, I'm getting what they were eastern, but they were not orientalized. The podlings, they're my favorite group. They're the smaller ones that like to party, right? Yeah. They were human potatoes. Literally. Froud, like, took a look at a potato and he took a look at an old,

and Russian woman. And he's like, what if they were the same thing and just drew them together eventually? You cannot, you will not convince me that he was not smoking several bowls a day. Oh, I'm not going to try to convince you that at all. It's right and proud. I mean, have you seen his work? So, but the, the, the podlings were human potatoes who spoke a Slavic sounding language and lived like good peasants should like say on the Eurasian step. Well, fuck. I'm really going to watch those first of the movie this same day again.

Oh yeah, yeah. I didn't even runes yet another one. All right. I don't know if we're ruined, is there right word though? Yeah, I've had a student come up to me who is now a sophomore and and for back to school night she came up to me. I don't know if this made it in any of the other podcasts for back to school night she came up to me with her mom and her mom because I taught drama last year and her mom and drama turned into film appreciation because I couldn't keep any but safe if I did drama. So it was mom and drama turned into film appreciation because I couldn't keep anybody safe if I did drama So it was we're all just gonna watch other people act and so I showed them the dark crystal Because I was like it puppetry is an important medium as well and so her mom said to me like oh god

You ruined her for movies forever. She she will never stop analyzing films now I said well, you're welcome. This student warms the heart, don't it? This student hated the dark crystal when I showed it, and so I made sure that any time we had another genre, because every week we studied another genre, I made sure that, because I always let the kids, I'm like, hey, you tell me what movie you want to watch within that genre, if not, I will give you one. So I found out what streaming services they had and I was able to do it. So every time we had a different genre, if she didn't have one at the ready, I gave her a Muppet movie. Every time.

That's that's a plus teacher. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's so goal. When we did a crime movie, she had the great muppet caper. Um, so oh, it was great. I am without words. That's that's too good. Yeah. So so anyway. Now, Hanson, uh, he saw these Slavic potatoes,avic potatoes who were sentient and he kind of attracted them into a more Mediterranean mindset of good and evil, but he kept the karmic balance stuff in there too in his philosophy.

So there's this like, I mean, it's very much guy who kind of, well, again, it's guy who didn't understand the Seth materials much less than the other side It's like it's like Lucas read a you know entry level textbook about Buddhism and read the intro to it. Yeah, the force. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it's it's the same It's yeah same thing. So you've got this this balance between good and evil black and white I mean literally black and white because the Gartham are black and the landstridors are white and they have a fight, right? The Gartham are rounded and beetle-like and the landstridors are elongated and they're laporial and yet they work around on stilts. It's a typical American Hodgepodge of stuff that he didn't spend too much time researching because, you know, puppets, for instance, the skecsies were 10 creatures that were supposed

to embody the seven deadly sins, so there's some overlap, right? But it's absolutely there. I mean, think about them at the banquet. There's your gluttony, right? And you've got avarice, and you've got, you know. Then since the skecsies and mystics are karmic opposites, if such a thing could exist. So again, it's that false duality that we solve with Lucas, right?

They represent the virtue mirror images of the skexis counterparts. And so the skexies were of this world. They were concerned with power and domination, jockeying for position, scheming their predatory, their intensely selfish, they were living in a contrived and constructed palace. The mystics were much more aesthetic. They were purged of all materialistic urges. They were connected to the natural world. They liked geometry. They were unconcerned with hierarchies at all.

They were aimed at self-knowledge and knowledge of the world beyond the self, if not even like, they didn't even care about self-mastery quite ultimately. They were almost completely divorced from the self. And I cannot emphasize this enough, super into geometry. Yeah, as a symbolic way of showing their esoteric geometry is an easy way of throwing something on the wall, floor of a cave that shows, look how much time they're spending on esoteric knowledge, abstract stuff. Exactly. I mean, to be perfectly honest,

Madonna got into quote, sacred geometry in the late 90s. So through Kabala. Yeah, I mean, it's easy if you're not thinking about it much. So, because the triangle has three sides, and we can all figure out how a triangle works by putting our thumb up our angle side side and figuring it out. Yeah.

So, anyway, it's April to December of 81. They're all filming everything at the L3 Studios in London, which means that it was being written, edited, rewritten, et cetera, from 75 to 81. And here, yeah, and here's where history steps in and collides with the philosophy that he found attractive, right? Because again, yes, he wrote this in 75 as a treatment, but as the rewrites happen, history is unfolding.

He's reading newspapers, he's hearing things on the radio, he's seeing things on TV, right? So here's what's been happening. It would be in the news on some level, although it's not possible to determine how much he accessed it, you can say that, okay, this was going on. It was on the headlines, it was in the zeitgeist, while he was designing the movie. And I'm going to avoid saying terrorists and assassination and

other such loaded terms here. I'm simply going to stick to Palestinian fighters and Israeli soldiers. And even that's a little uncomfortable. But Israel has a state and therefore the soldiers are agents of that state They are they are codified under internationally recognized law as a as a regulated military force exactly Whereas fighters are held to it's kind of like the difference in D&D between a fighter and a warrior Orders are head to a held to a lesser standard of codification Yeah, doesn't make any less brave fighter and a warrior or user head to a help to a lesser standard of codification. Yeah. Doesn't make any less brave usually makes them less equipped.

So yeah, unless equipped, uh, generally less regimented. Uh, um, it doesn't necessarily make their cause more or less just either. Yeah, no. To me, I think we've made was a fighter. Yeah. Right. Um, John Brown was a fighter. Yeah. Right? Yeah. John Brown was a fighter. Yeah.

There's two examples of white guys who are both terrorists for very opposite causes. Yes. Anyway, and it's not uncomfortable because I don't want to take a stand. I'm uncomfortable because it gets kind of gets back to what Henson was thinking and what philosophy is bouncing around in his head. However, like I said, soldiers have the backing of an intact government fighters are usually fighting for a cause. But yes, at the end of the day, it's still it shows the limitation of language. So he he writes

the treatment in 75. So let's start in 75 and 75 there is a hotel attack in Tel Aviv. Palestinian fighters took over a hotel on the coast and took hostages. Israeli soldiers stormed the hotel to end the situation. Five hostages were freed, eight died. Three Israeli soldiers died and the Palestinian fighters were all killed, safe one who was put on trial. Now also in 75, a Palestinian refrigerator bomb on

Ben Yahuota street killed 15 Israeli civilians in during 77 more. Cafe Nave was bombed on Jaffa Road killing seven Israelis in injuring 45. And this was three days after the United Nations General Assembly Resolution 3379 that stated, quote, Zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. Okay. And that was after stating that quote, international cooperation and peace require the achievement of national liberation and independence, the elimination of colonialism and neo-colonialism, foreign occupation, Zionism, apartheid, and racial discrimination in all

its forms, as well as the recognition of the dignity of peoples and their rights to self-determination. That's the United Nations General Resolution. Wow. Okay. So that's the year in which Hanson wrote the first of his dark crystal story, the first part of it, right? The first treat. Yeah.

Now on June 27th, 1976, Palestinian fighters hijacked Air France flight 139, going from Tel Aviv to Athens, where they got on. There were over 200 passengers, including the four Palestinian hijackers and the 12 crew. And most of the passengers in crew were Israeli and or Jewish. And that distinction does need to be made because there are, what are they called, the trips that American Jews will often make to Israel. It's a birthright trip. Yeah, I want it.

Yeah, it's a similar. Yeah, I'll have to look it up. But yeah, yeah, so you know American and or European tourism to Israel It is going to involve more than just Israeli being more than just Israelis being on a Israel flight. Or I'm sorry, Air France flight that goes from Tel Aviv to Athens. So the PF did you find it? Not yet. Okay. The PFLP, the popular front for the liberation of Palestine, was aided by two West German leftist revolutionaries in the effort. So you had mostly Palestinians running this thing, but there were also two West German leftists, revolutionaries.

And they diverted the plane to Benghazi Libya. They refueled there and they went to Anteba, Uganda. And at Anteba, they were joined by four more hijackers and got support from Idiamine, the dictator of Uganda, who had been trained by the British. Now they got moved to an unused terminal and they got a visit from him daily and he kept promising to negotiate their release. If folks in the audience don't know who IDIA mean was, think if Donald Trump had a little bit more education

and courage. And Melsa Kourisma. I'm gonna go with personal charisma. Yeah. Um, Yes, is now the point at which we want to mention that that he's a legend to have eaten people. Yeah. Oh, and he just remembered one of his one of his. I'm not saying he's a better person than Donald. Yeah. Yeah. No, indeed. I'm just saying he was better trained and had more personal courage than Donald Trump and and yeah, yeah

So Now like a lot of these hostage-shakings it was in order to secure the release of Palestinians who were being held by Israel's government also to make money because You're not soldiers your fighters therefore your funding is not backed by a government. Now with the help of Ugandan soldiers, the Palestinian hijackers began separating people based on citizenship and religion. Israelis in one group and everyone else in another except that they also added to the Israelis including a Holocaust survivor. Two Orthodox Jewish couples and a French resident who had citizenship in Israel. They also missed a few because not everybody's that good at keeping track of things.

So they've started separating folks on the plane, like deliberately, like we're targeting one group and not the other. Now you can imagine the echoes that this has in recent European history, separating the Jews from the group is, yeah. Now, yeah, go on. Very bad connotations. Yes. Yeah. Now, on the 30th, okay. So, again, this all starts on June 27th. So, now we're on June 30th. The hijackers released 48 non-Israeli hostages. And a couple of days later, they released another 100 non-Israeli hostages.

However, the Air France crew refused to leave, even though they were offered like you can also go and they said no. These people are under our charge. The answer is no. Yeah. Now, in a very well planned, well coordinated raid on hijacking, the Israeli soldiers, actually they're a misad soldiers, including their leader, Yannatan Netanyahu, the elder brother of Benjamin Netanyahu, who was also one of the only Israeli soldiers to die in the rescue effort. And I just want to stop down for a second to talk about Yannatan. By the time he's doing this, he is already a national hero, By the time he's doing this, he is already a national hero. He's also like a well-known poet. Like he is kind of the, like if you took Sergeant York mixed him with Ben Franklin and Robert Frost like yeah, he's he's a real like

his this he's this remarkable legendary founding figure of the state of Israel. Yeah, he's the boy chick of the family. Unfortunately, Benjamin never recovers from that. Yeah, I know. So, but he dies. He's actually one of the few people who dies in this. And I think he was a colonel at this time. Now, he's one of, I think there's two or three Israeli soldiers who die in this rescue effort. And they rescue 102 of the hostages And with only 10 of them being wounded Three hostages were killed in the crossfire and one named Dora block BLO CH. So blotch block. I don't know. She's British She was left behind in Uganda

And and she was killed by a mean soldiers along with a few of her doctors and nurses in retaliation for the fact that the Israeli soldiers conducted the rescue raid on his soil without his permission. Her murder was the catalyst that led to the British cutting all diplomatic ties with Uganda, which then led to a mean calling himself the conqueror of the British Empire and the king of Scotland. Yeah. Yeah. We already mentioned the Trump parallels. Uh-huh. So yeah. Uh-huh. No need to go back over that again. Right. As obvious as they've now become. Yeah. Yeah.

Now, that was most of July of 76. So while the dark crystal is crystallized, stating, yeah, in Henson's and Odell's, why go crystallizing actually, yeah, that's, that's what's in the soup. Okay. In 77, Israel's, uh, or Israeli special forces killed PLO representatives, including one in Paris, France. In 78, you start to see splinter groups besides the PFLP and the PLO.

And there's some internecine killing amongst these groups. Some didn't take too kindly to Arafat's all of branch in 74. And because of the splintering, you have a lot of groups starting to escalate the killings and the targets and the frequency. There was a bus attack in March of 78 by Fata, a branch of the PLO that favored more deadly efforts. They hijacked a bus, they killed 38 Israelis, one American, and wounded 76. 13 children were among the dead. It's a really brutal and dangerous time.

And it's, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's bad. I don't have other words for it other than this is, this, this is a very unsteady time where, where death is a constant companion, unfortunately, to mundane activities. This really government's response to this a couple days later was to invade part of Lebanon and to push the Palestinians off the border. This created at minimum 100,000 Palestinian refugees and it killed at minimum 300 Palestinians

and Lebanese fighters, as well as civilians. And amid all this, Minachem Begin and Anmar Sadat of Egypt were headed toward negotiations. I can't, David. So during the 1967-06 day war, so we're going to rewind just a little bit to get that caught up to the Begin and Sadat negotiations. Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq fought against Israel and Israel had taken the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank of the Jordan River as well as the Golan Heights. It was a huge embarrassment to the Arab world because of how quickly it happened. And in some ways it led to the Munich hostage taking. It led to the Amkipur War and everything else

that the PLO was trying. They were being, what's that? It also created a situation in the Arab world where the embarrassment, I mean, the extent to which the Israelis like flattened everybody. Yes. Kicked all the ass. Yes. In a very short war, I mean, it's literally called the Six Day War. Yeah, for a reason. Yeah.

And the prevailing theory in the Arab world became that there's no way these Israelis could have done this on their own. The United States had to have helped them. And to this day, 55 years later, it is still a commonly accepted truism on the streets of Egypt, Iraq, any of those countries, Lebanon, that no, no, the US did that. That wasn't Israel. We would have wiped Israel off the map, but the Americans secretly did this. And it's a part of, I'm not going to say it is the reason, but it is a significant part of the attitude that the Arab world has toward the United States is based on that perception and that conspiracy theory. I mean, there's also, of course, all of our colonialist bullshit.

I was going to say, we really, I yeah, there's plenty of shit we did. Right. But that conspiracy theory is a big part of the fueling of, of, or the perpetuation of the attitude that, you know, to a certain extent, rightfully exists, because of all the colonialists shit we did do, that's, that is one that is like, well, you know, and on top of all of that, there's this. And it's like, no, that one we didn't actually do. Right. Right. But we're never going to convince anybody that we didn't because of all the shit we did do. Yeah.

You know, so. Yeah. Well, and so the PLO really stepped up after 67 because of that humiliation that you were talking about. And they were being funded largely by those same Arab states who had lost in 67 and who would rather not lose another war so badly and more territory. So if you can pay Palestinians to take all the risks and you can fund Palestinians to do all the damage, then you're not losing anything but Israel is.

Well, yeah, no, it's, it's, you know, I mean, it's pretty classic dirty trick scheme in, in any kind of international conflict ever. Yeah. You know, um, and interestingly, Iran wasn't, wasn't part of that yet. Correct. Well, because Iran was not one of the Arab nations. Right. Because of that point, Iran, so we're talking 70. Okay. Yeah. So we have that was 67. Right.

Yeah. Okay. 67 is is pretty. Shaw's fallen. A lot of yeah. He's not going to. He's not going to go until 77. Yeah. I think you're on 77, no, I think we're 79. Yeah. So anyway, so fast forward to Sadat and begin.

They were in semi-secret negotiations with Jimmy Carter leading into 1978. And so the leader of Israel and the leader of Egypt are trying to work out a let's not hit each other anymore, which again, this goes against the cartoon resolution of 67. So, Egypt is going to catch a lot of shit for this. Anyway, Sedot and Beginner and these semi-secret negotiations with Carter, he brings them to Camp David. They did a mini version of Shuttle diplomacy. It's called the one document diplomacy. And literally Jimmy Carter was working 20 hour days. He's walking a document back and forth between starting to gain.

And he's like, no, I do not want there to be any secrets here. This is what he has said. This is what he has crossed out. What do you need to cross out? What do you need to say? And then he is that everything? Yes. Okay. And then he'd go back over to the other guy. He's that this is what he said. This is what he has crossed out. What are you, you know, and they would go back and forth, back and forth. And, and the thing is to start with, they couldn't even be in the same room begging and, and, and,at. Um, but Carter was able to provide a third party so that they could both kind of put their respect and trust into him that they didn't have for each other. Mm-hmm. And also, uh, they had the added bonus of,

both of them wanting to avoid Soviet intervention in the area. Mm-hmm. And that helps a lot. Um, and, uh, well, because by that time, the Soviet intervention in the area. And that helps a lot. And well, because by that time, the Soviet intervention had begun to look like hungry, you know, boot a pet. And I think it was boot a pest. Yeah. Yeah. Where they sent the they didn't they didn't want that at all right. Because they they knew that at that point in global politics, if any bits of Soviets intervened, somebody was going to wind up becoming a puppet. Yeah. So he basically kept threatening.

He's like, look, if you guys don't start finding a way to get along. I will yank all the yade that we give to both you. And you know, good luck with the Soviets. And so he basically took them both into Gettysburg to see the battlefield. And I mean, that's pretty, you know, pretty obvious what he's trying to get at there, right? And he would barely deal with the two men. He also would only go to their staff except for for final approval. Really? Yeah.

So he's like, no, you're not going to try to massage me one way or the other. I'm here to make peace between the two of you. I'm sorry, you two can't be in the same room together, but I'll be damned if you're going to try to ritual me one way or the other. I'm here to make peace between the two of you. I'm sorry you two can't be in the same room together, but I'll be damned if you're gonna try to rig roll me. So I'm gonna talk with your staff, I'm gonna talk with your staff and go back and forth. And then only when it's like, okay, staff are you all satisfied with this?

Yes, okay, great. Now I'm gonna go to your boss. I'm gonna make sure he's cool with it. And then back. I really want to see somebody rehabilitate harder in the American historical historiographical record. Well, there's a documentary that came out on him recently on HBO and I was going to look into that actually. Because yeah, he's normally named as like one of the best ex presidents we've ever had and that's undeniably so. Yeah. But you're absolutely right. So I'm very curious

to how that documentary treats his presidency. Yeah. Yeah. So Israel, well, Sadat and begin both also started to note that there was increased extremism in anti-Israeli sentiments and that that increased extremism in anti-Israeli sentiments was dangerous to both companies or both countries. Uh, Israel for obvious reasons, right? The more extreme they are against our existence, the more of us will die. But Sadat was also worried because he's like, if the crazies get charged, like, you know, if they get enough popular sentiment behind them, that's going to be personally dangerous to me. And two years later, he was proven correct. So they made an agreement to give back Sinai to Egypt, the whole peninsula goes back to Egypt, and to recognize the right of self-government for the Palestinians on the West Bank and on Gaza.

In exchange, Egypt would not attack even if their allies did. Attack Israel. And the United States would continue to give locks of aid to both to guarantee this to keep everybody safe and honest. Now Carter loses his bid for reelection in 80 November 80. And like he's working right up until like the last minute to do everything he can to keep a piece and also try to negotiate hostages back from Iran because by this point you've got the Iranian hostage crisis that's going on for 444 days. So yeah, it must have been 79. Now, Begeans party, the liquid continued uh continued encouraging Israeli settlers in the Gaza in Gaza and in the West uh bank. So you know, keep keep moving in there. We're going to push them out just by

dint of our population. Um, so that gets killed by Islamic jihad and Egypt uh in in October of 81 because Omar Abdel Rahman,man, who is the exact same guy for the World Trade Center attack in 93, issued a fought while against him. And also Egypt got kicked out of the Arab League for nearly a decade. Yeah. So that's 80, 81.

So while the final parts of the Dark Crystal are being put together and the studio is waiting to release it, that's what's going on. And there's a lot more attacks outside of Israel and Palestine, but this is largely what's going on. So, we're actually at a place where there's a pretty good breaking point for what we've got coming up So and it fits the harmony pattern of like well, here's all the history and then we'll get to the real thing Yeah, so I'm gonna stop it here. It might feel kind of short compared to our most usual tones that we've done stuff But I don't mind just going a little short sometimes

so What have you gleaned so far? we've tried stuff. Yeah, but I don't mind just going a little short sometimes. So what have you gleaned so far? Well, right off the bat, I want, I want somebody to create an icon image of Jimmy Carter. Like I want, I want, I want an literally a saint's icon image made of Jimmy Carter, like because I think he deserves one. In the canon of men who have been president of the United States, when it comes to actually being a moral individual, he is at least number two on the list, possibly number one. Of the ones who have been president of men who've been president of the United States. Yeah. Like Lincoln might be number one. But then there are the things Lincoln did at the outset

of the Civil War that are like, I don't know, in terms of, you know, executive authority and suspension of habeas corpus and what have you that like make me wonder, like maybe quibble, maybe not wonder, but make me quibble slightly. But, I mean, Jimmy Carter came into the office of president, and there was no scandal on his watch. He did not enrich himself with the office. His brother, okay, there was a scandal. His brother was

a completely different person. Billy Beer. Billy was an embarrassment, but but Carter himself And and the people who were not his brother Right involved and the people who are actually involved in his administration um Like There you know, he got elected because of watergate and because everybody was like no This is a guy we can all look at and he is a pillar of moral character. And I just wish I wish a couple of things had broken his way.

In hindsight, because he got hammered by circumstances outside of his control. Mm-hmm. So. And then, and then, you know, Ronnie Raygun got voted in. Yep. And we, we, we, we haven't had anybody of that same level of moral character since in, level of moral character since in terms not only of personal morality but policy.

You know, and yeah, it's a damn shame because he gets he has gone down in history as being a weak president and I don't think he deserves that. No, I would push back just a little bit and saying that El Salvador called and said, what? Okay, so to Haiti. In this hemisphere, you're wrong. In the rest of the world, you seem to be pretty right. Here's that weird distinction, like where you can make a distinction without a difference,

but like a lot of people say, with under Jimmy Carter, not a single missile is fired, not a single bullet was fired for American interests overseas. And there's truth to that. So long as you point, don't point to the fact that the rescue operation with guys filled with guns got knocked down by a sandstorm in Iran. Yeah.

And that we didn't have Americans firing those bullets, but we certainly supplied a lot of bullets to certain people in El Salvador, Nicaragua, Haiti. So it's like, yeah, true, but. And it's kind of like, it's almost like a Bechtel test. Like, you know how low that bar is where you have to just have two named female characters to talk about something. Yeah, okay, yeah, okay.

Yeah, fair. And yet 85% still fail at that. Yeah. Like, if the bar is this low, because I'm not going gonna say that the assassination and the slaughter of natives doesn't count. Yeah. So he might be the only one that made it across that very low threshold of,

let's not throw our bullets at them with our guys. Like, now that being said, I do think he was, we've talked about this before, you could have a good man become president and have to do very bad things. And you can certainly define him as no longer a good man once he becomes president. And I think that Jimmy Carter certainly is in a class unto himself as president. So yeah. Okay. So, I mean, that's the very first thing that comes across. And then the duality theme within dark crystal and the two separate peoples who are going to get into that. And two separate peoples who on a certain level aren't two separate peoples, which is, which is reductive as hell.

Like if you were to say to a Palestinian and in Israel, well, you know, you're not really two people. Like, I don't think that's, that's just very asshole. Yeah, that's a very, that's a very white guy with a beard. Yep. It is. Kind of outlook. Oh, cool. Thank you. Tell me more. Can you use a puppet to tell me while you're I can. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I can see the thought process going on there.

So yeah, I'm interested to see all of the details of that Geoligory. I'm going forward. Cool. Well, anything you want to recommend to people besides the two gun, which? Yeah, it would just, you know, take it completely out from under me. I am going to re-recommend a renegade history of the United States. I am going to re-recommend a renegade history of the United States. I think it is well worth the read. I think it opens up a new perspective on the parts of our history that establishment figures and establishment historians don't want to highlight in the record, at the very least, but that are really important if you're going to get a truly 360 degree understanding of why our country is the way it is.

Cool. How about you? I'm going to recommend actually self-portrait of a hero, which are the letters of Jonathan Netanyahu from 19, I think it's like 63 to 76. And it's got an afterward by both of his brothers. Take that with a grain of salt when you see Benjamin writing because that man has never like you know what they say about Rudy Giuliani, the most dangerous place in New York is between him and a microphone on't heard that. Oh, yeah. But oh, my God, yeah, even if it's it, you know, four seasons landscaping. Right. But like it really is, I mean, you know, you have to read between the lines on on Benjamin stuff. But Jonathan stuff is is thought provoking and it's it's fascinating.

Like again, regardless of of what side you take in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, regardless of what, you know, what your religious bend is, is a very thoughtful man who had a lot of thoughts. I think that's worth a read. Regardless of where you end up, but I think that's worth a read. So self portrait of a hero, the letters of Jonathan or Jonathan Dentanyahu from 63 to 76. So very cool. Cool. Where can people find you? I can be found. I can be found on TikTok as Mr. Under Square Play Lock. But if you find me now, my account has gone private. And more on that at the beginning of next episode.

And I can be found on Twitter also for as long as that site remains functional, which it might not be by the time you're listed in this episode. It might be a mere memory, but my address has now changed. You can find me under the handle of HatFetster, which is a nod to my icon. That's Kat and then the German word for FETSTER FECHT are on Twitter. And I'll explain all of that the beginning of next episode. But you can find me there. We, of course, collectively can be found at the website

www.geakhistorytime.com. And you have already found us either there or on the Apple Podcast app or on Stitcher as a geek history of time. And wherever it is you've found us, please subscribe. Please give us the five star review that you know we deserve. And where can you be found, sir? Well, by the time this releases, you'll have missed the December show.

So January 6th, we're having our show, our first show of the new year at Luna's for capital punishment. Very good. 8 p.m. Bring proof of vaccination plus $10. Also bringing a little extra for food and you want to buy some merch. We've got some cool stickers and some cool buttons. So that's January 6 at Luna's 8 p.m. Also February 3 at Henry's bar and grill in Sacramento, Henry's bar. at Henry's bar and grill in Sacramento, Henry's bar.

Okay. And a friend of mine owns the place and I wanted to slide some business her way. So February 3rd is gonna be a pretty big show. So come on out to that too. Come out to both obviously, but come out to the one on February 3rd especially. Also $10, also proof of the Vax at the door, but capital punishment is going to be invading another venue. We're gonna see how that works. third especially. Also $10 also proof of the Vax at the door. But capital

punishment is going to be invading another venue. We're going to see how that works. So that's that's all the news is fit to print. So all right or a geek history of time I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blaylock. And until next time peace. Yes, peace. Yes, please.